I have like 850 >> 854 >> 854 >> 854. We'll call the uh town board meeting for December 1st, 2025 to order. Uh first item on the agenda is the approval. Patrick, changes, deletions. >> Nothing from staff, Mr. Chair. >> No deletions. Deletions. [laughter] >> All right. Does the board have anything to add? >> No. >> No. >> Move to approve the agenda. >> Second. >> All favor say I. >> I. >> All right. Uh, item three, approval, payment of the bills. You sign off. >> I signed off. Move to approve payment of the bills. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Item four is the approval of the November 17th, 2025 meeting minutes. Anybody get any changes? >> I didn't. >> I saw none. Move to approve the minutes of the prior meeting. >> A second. Motion. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. Item five is a consent agenda item. We have nine of them. Steve, you're the resident insurance guy. Are all those certificates look good? >> They they did. U as long as And Pat has assured me that there is a process in place to get the mid midyear updates because they all expire at various times during 2026. And to keep them current, we need the current ones. And ass issues. Um, I would like to pull the consent agenda item 5G, designation of polling places. >> Oh, yeah. Other than that, I would look for a motion to approve the meeting. >> Some move. >> Second. >> All in favor? Say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> All right. This brings up we've had some uh conflict of having our polling place at Otter Lake school. >> Correct. Now obviously residents are looking to try to do a budget meeting at our lake school. So we need to get a couple of things resolved. Um it's it's very difficult to find public places in the township to hold these things. >> It is. So the the the one difference between holding the budget meeting and [clears throat] the polling place question is that uh the elections throughout the day while the kiddos are in school. The our budget meeting will be in the evening where by everybody gone. Now, what I would suggest, considering that we are still working with Ramsey County and establishing Tamarak as our polling place for the next election cycle, I would suggest that the board adopt to be decided and we can do that per statute. >> Correct. Yes, we can. >> Um the only thing that we have to do is that we can't make changes to the polling place, its location inside of 90 days of the election. >> That's right. >> Is the um arts Art Center. Is that a possibility? >> I believe that was on Riley's checklist and they said no. But let me confirm for sure >> because they're a bigger venue. They got more parking because a lot of times you end up stand you like I was we were all standing in the rain I think at one point. >> Is that in the boundaries of the precinct though? >> It's right next to a theater. >> No, but is that within the boundaries of the precinct though? >> Yeah. We'll check to make sure. It's got to be within the boundaries of the precinct, >> which is pretty much the north part of the township. >> Yeah. >> So, let me uh let me check. [clears throat] >> Absolutely. >> Have we been notified by the school district that they are in session that day? >> What's that? >> Is the school actually in session on election day? >> Yeah. >> They verified that. >> Okay. Because in past, I've been an election judge. So, there mo most of the time the school is not in session. That's why I said it's a conflict date. We had a variety of residents contact the township as well as the school district uh with concern um stating that they understand that it was too late to change anything for this year while their kids were in school. Um but they were trying to get word to the township to reconsider its position for the next election as the kids will be in school. >> I vote check it out but >> okay I I would just leave it up to be decided come with some options. >> We just don't have a lot of options. >> We we really don't we Didn't Ramsey County determine these spots for us? >> Uh, no. >> Well, they they did. They pull or they do our polling or Yeah. >> voting. >> Yeah. We establish >> the township accepts them and reports that to the county, nominates them, I should say. >> So, what we published in the paper this last week, we was >> we published the polling places already, so we just retracted. >> We're just going to to be decided. Yes. till we get it worked out. >> All right. So, we need to amend that uh statement here. >> That will be reflected in your minutes. >> So, I'm just going to pull pull G. >> How do you want that to read? Just uh >> table it, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to table uh item 5G in the consent agenda, designation of polling locations. >> Second. >> All right. Motion to made a second. All in favor say I. I. >> Opposed. >> All right. Uh, moving on. We have item 8A. Our public works director is retiring. Do we need to accept his retirement correspondence? >> Say no. >> Really? Do we have to accept it? >> I think you don't have to, but he's going to leave anyway. >> Do you have anything to say about this? >> You don't have any choice. [laughter] >> Mr. Public Works director, do you have anything to say whether we should accept it or reject it at this? >> I would ask. Fantastic. I agree with you. [laughter] >> I'll move to if >> well except for first I'd like to say we'd like to say thank you Dale. Um it's I don't know you've been here longer than most of us. So [laughter] and it it's it's going to be a transition. We're just going through the process of finding your replacement which is a tough feat to do. So but we wish you well no matter what you pursue. But I'm putting you on speed dial. >> He is on us too. >> I echo that. We've we've worked it out that Dale will be uh advising us for >> time being after he retires. >> So they can help break in our >> Yep. >> need. Got it. >> So I'll make a motion with reluctance to accept the retirement correspondence from Dale Reed, public work director, noting his last day as January 30th, 2026. >> I'll second. >> Motion's made a second. Let's not vote on it. [laughter] >> Okay. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. Thank you, Dale. >> Good luck, Dale. All right. Item 8 B. This is a proposal for the local sack and sanitary sewer trunk line maintenance fees. >> Who wants to take that one? You want to take that one? >> Your last official duty or >> uh no, but uh so we've got two pending JPAs. One with the city of North Oaks, the two party. Then we have the three party with Lino Lakes. Oh, sorry, Lino Lakes. >> There you go. >> Uh, and North Oaks and ourselves. And in that anticipation of those agreements moving forward, I talked with Chad about we incorporating fees in with that. In particularly, we need to um recover some of our costs for maintenance and rehabilitation, all the things to do with our sanitary sewer trunk line on Centerville Road. Currently, the city of North Oaks is building water and sewer to their residents. So, we are not rec we're not recovering cost for that maintenance of that trunk sanitary sewer line. And then with this proposed agreement also with Lakes and North Oaks, we would want that recover those cost from North Lo for that use of that capacity in the center trunk line. So, I have estimated a quarterly fee of $210 for each residential equivalent unit reu um both in North Oaks. I know I'm jumping here for the city north oaks township and also for the city north oak city of North Oaks Lakes and the township uh in the JPA. So what I'm asking or recommending is that we incorporate those maintenance fees in both those JPAs and in particular the I have another fee that we need to consider charging with city line for a sewer access charge a local sew sewer access charge which we charge our residents who connect to our sewer system so that Lionel Lakes when they make develop that north that property just north of North Oaks, west of uh Centerville Road, that we can recover the uh sewer access charges. We pass those on to their residents just like we would our own residents and incorporate that into that three three-party JPA. So I'm looking for the board is to approve the $210 a quarter residential equivalent per unit for maintenance and then also specific to Lina Lakes adding the sewer access charge of $600 per residential equivalent unit in that agreement. Any questions? Did I confuse everybody? >> No. >> No, we're good. >> This would basically be wording that we would put into our that we're currently working on. >> Correct. And the board has to authorize the charges before we can include those in a JPA. >> Thank you, Chad. >> Actually, it has to set the charges before we can include the JPA. >> So, we have to do them separately or together. >> I think what Dale is suggesting is that to charge >> Excuse me. >> I said because they're two separate JP. >> I know, but I understand. I think what Dale's suggesting is you establish the fees per house which can then be incorporated in both JPA so you don't have to do it for each JPA just do it set a flat fee it'll apply to any JPA dealing with sanitary sewer access that what you're trying to do Dale >> well so we get the one the maintenance fee the trunk line maintenance fee which is for both proposed GPA are outstanding at this point >> and then specifically to the Lakes the sack. Yes, >> the sack, the $600 residential, >> but the sack could also apply to anyone else who the town extends sanitary sewer to if it wishes to do so. >> It technically, yes, outside our jurisdictions. >> Right. So, for example, there is still a developmental unit within North Oaks that we've said we'd do water for once upon a time. It hasn't been developed yet. So, that $600 now would apply. >> I don't in that case because that's in the city of North Oaks. I don't think we can charge it because they're already their building officials already char or the city's already charging the residents. >> We're just providing water to that. >> Yes. because they've already purchased capacity. That's I'm sorry. I could probably clarify that North Oaks company purchased capacity in that Centerville line years ago. I'm assuming now they got they're they can charge their own local sack, but they bought the capacity in that line. >> Chad, does this mean we'd have to amend our ordinance for fees and fines? >> Yeah. >> Yes, we would. >> We need a public hearing for that also. No, we can adopt that in the January organization meeting, >> right? [clears throat] >> So, would this mean we could just do that here or do we have to send it to uh utilities or any other commission? >> I don't know if it has to go to utilities. I mean, it's going to come to the board for being said anyway. Okay. You know, the I think it's definitely worth just letting them know what's going on at their next meeting. >> Yeah. I mean, the real reason we're doing this is because we're in the process of negotiating those two JPAs and this is a big and this is one of the big issues in the JPA. So, we have to have we just can't tell Lo and North Oaks. We don't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And as the board knows, we've been hacking through this for >> Right. And the staff can't set the fees because they don't have only the board has that authority. I mean to cut to the chase, what Dale is asking and what I'm recommending is that you do adopt a resol or mo a resolution saying this is what these are the fees we're going to adopt in the future. >> So we can incorporate those in a JPA. >> We don't have the resolution before us. Correct. >> No, no. This was here just to present to the >> So go back to my question though. There's really two parts to this. There's the $210 per quarter piece >> and then there's the separate fees for the JPA with Lino Lakes. So, do you need to include it all together? >> No. >> No. >> There's right there are two fees here. Correct. Yes. One is the maintenance fee. >> The second is the sewer access charge, which could apply not only to Lino Lakes, but anyone else who requests access to the town's trunk sanitary sewer line, which would most likely be North Oaks. But they >> as you say to include then any >> carving out those that portion of the property that carving out that ax that capacity which has already been purchased by north but ultimately just let's clear my head ultimately with the JPA between Lylakes and us down the road that that would cover that piece but you want it broad enough that it could cover any >> new connections. >> I think that that's what you should do. Yeah. You set the rate now and that way it would apply to future expansion developments within my lakes. >> That's what I was trying to get at. I'm sorry I could have answered that question. >> I'm sorry if I was a little a little obtuse there, but yeah, that's exactly what we're driving at. >> Maybe it was me. >> No, I think it was both. >> No, it was Chad. >> Okay. >> All right. So then I'm back to We still need to amend our fee and >> we will you will have to but then January you'll do That's our organizational January meeting where we all >> but at this point staff's looking for direction as to what the board would want to do in the what the board would do in the future on this. >> Okay. So there's no action needs to be taken or you want us to take it without the resolution >> said resolution. Just make a motion. >> Okay. I'll make a motion to adopt the local sack and sanitary sewer trunk line maintenance fee that was uh presented tonight uh by Dale Reid for $210 per quarter for each resident uh for the sewer trunk line maintenance and then considering a $600 per residential unit equivalent for sewer access charges going forward. >> I'll second. >> All right, motion made a second. All in favor say I. >> I. Opposed. All right, that motion carries. All right, we have no other added agenda items. We have open time. We've had a lot of open time tonight. >> Name and address up at the mic. Uh, just for the record. >> Uh, the Cory Huberty 5464 Baldigo Boulevard East. Um, I just wanted to ask the stuff we've seen on the H2 Trail. What's going on with that? >> Actually, there you probably answer that. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Town Board. Um we held a open house uh gosh couple couple three weeks ago now um to take public comment about the trail and um kind of looking for feedback on which side people would prefer the trail be located on. And so we've uh we've uh received that comment um and we are now in the process of uh designing the trail system along H2. >> Was there a question to the residents of we don't want it? Was that a question? >> We were taking any feedback. >> Okay. Was that a question that you could mark? >> Um we were take Yeah, we were taking any feedback whatsoever on the >> So So you're saying you're designing it. So is it a done deal? Um it's not a done deal until the town board um approves it. >> Sure. >> Um >> and until we have a feasibility study, there's way too many questions are unanswered. >> I was going to say the board has not seen it yet other than in its proposed state. >> Is there a payment for is do does the township pay a cost for the study and stuff to be done? >> Oh yeah, we have to pay for feasibility studies. >> Now this was a grant project. >> Grant project. This was a project that received uh funding um 50% funding from Ramsey County >> and the other 50% comes from where? >> From the town board uh parks uh >> acquisition >> parks acquisition. >> Um I asked that very question there. It's a dedicated enterprise fund specific for specific uses. So it's not in the general fund. It's there to only be used for that purpose. >> Part of the CIP >> part of CIP. >> Yeah. Just let you know the park. >> I'll have to look at that. CIP familiar with development. Every time there's a development proposed, there has to be a park fee paid, impact fee. Yep. And that's funds the the the source that's funds the township source, >> right? >> Funding source in this matter. So, it's not general it's not general taxes. >> What other things could that fund go to besides the trail? >> It can only go towards development of new parks. It can't be used to maintain existing parks. >> Okay. So, a trail cars or trails. Or trails. Yes. >> Yeah. Any recreational? >> Yep. >> Sorry. A little clear. >> And does the trail go into people's current properties? Do they does do they lose yard? >> The >> How wide is it? >> There'd be an 8ft trail that we're looking at. >> 8 foot wide. >> Eight foot wide. And it's um would be within the the rightway of H2. And so it would consume part of the yard, >> but that's the yard in the rightway, right? >> Not >> um past the property line, >> right? And who does the project? What company? Who heads the project? >> When the uh if once a project is designed and it's bid out, then it's it's bid to contractors that um do this type of work and the lowest responsible bidder would be awarded for the work. Was was there was there like a need? Were people saying we really want this trail at one point? Is that how it came to fruition or did it get put out there to say what do you guys think about this? >> This trail has been in the the comprehensive plan for many years, the township's comprehensive plan. >> I'm I'm well aware of the park township comprehensive plan. Yes. >> But who did someone look for this? Were they wanting that or was it put in there? I'm asking because we just had a whole meeting on budget and spending and all those things, right? and part of it stuff for parks and things like that. So, I'm wondering was there was there a want or people saying we want this put in like to come to head now? >> Yeah, we have we have residents all the time concerned about pedestrian traffic or we're just we just did a we're doing a trail right now going north on Otter Lake to connect to uh what's the crossroad so we get back down to Otter Lake school. It's just it's another >> public safety. >> Yeah, the one along Otter Lake Road north of H2. >> Um it's from >> I can't think of the roads either. Meet it's not that's currently not on the work say was turned down funding I believe. >> No, that was also approved for funding in 2027. >> 2027. >> Well, we do we do con >> to answer your question shortly. Has there been a clamoring for it? know was it in the comprehensive plan? It's that's where it was pegged. Yeah. >> Doesn't mean it was going to get approved or spent because this plan was looked at several years ago and it didn't have the matching funds that it they may have today. And so the township I believe was in the neighborhood of a $700,000 expenditure for that and we said it was too much. So I don't know where we are today because I haven't seen anything. Right. >> Is there be another presentation to you, Larry, in January? Yes, we're we're taking the feedback we received from the public. >> Can they be more feedback at the January meeting? >> Um, yes, exactly. So, we will we will have a a concept to present to the public at that time. >> Okay. >> And to showcase that and what we were hearing from the public wasn't we don't want this. We we heard um probably more people that wanted it and were happy to to have it go forward. >> Sure. Do you look at where the people live who say that? Like what that will go through their property >> or is it just the whole township? >> Yeah, I I mean just the people I spoke to I I >> it was a mixture. >> And when when you hold the meetings, um what time of day do you hold that? >> This one was at 4:30 4:00. >> That was a it was an open house so people could come arrive at a period of time. It was in the evening. >> Okay. >> I just know some of them are during work time for things like that. So >> I think Okay, that was just my questions. Thank you. >> So, I'm Bruce Kelly. I live on 5991 out of Lake Road. I think some of you familiar with me, but anyway, I'm curious on the expenditure the township's doing on the county road J project that I've voiced to you that we've been against. Me and 50 of my neighbors never wanted the project. It's kind of a big waste of money. >> But also to deal with his age too question. >> This is the interchange right. >> You're talking about the interchange project. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I live right on the corner of Jay and Otter Lake Road where they tore the woods down and >> they destroyed Otter Lake Road also coming off of it. I don't know who's going to repair that, but it's a big mess. >> Anyway, >> has anybody got any answers or >> Well, I was going to say that's all county and state stuff. So I mean we're >> No, White Bear Townships has to pay some funds towards this project. >> Well, that's because some of the township infrastructure such as water and sewer is located within the within the easements under the control of the county and the and mindot. So we actually use those those rightaways with permission of MDOT and the county. So if they want to they want to adjust how they use their own rightway then we have to adjust our infrastructure accordingly. So it's not like we decide you know I guess what I'm saying is this we have to we have to match we have to accommodate their proposed uses. >> Okay. >> So for example a lot of the expense D can help can back me up on this I think or help fill in fill in the blanks. A lot of the costs that the township incurred were relocating existing sewer and water because that was there at the permission and license of the men of MIDOT and the county. >> So, so they had the right to direct direct the town to move things. >> So, essentially we're just the end guy on crack the whip >> basically. >> Okay. >> Okay. I'm I'm not familiar with any water they moved. They moved it from underneath the freeway or what? >> Um, if you don't mind. Yeah, >> I speak to that. >> I understand your question. Yeah. >> So, they moved they had to move the water main on the south side of J west of 35W to get it out from under the existing expansion of the roadway. So, that was that part of the moving. There's another portion that'll be moved over by Bruce's address next year that's along the off ramp that will be moved a little bit further to the it'll be raised up more more than moved. It would be raised up so it doesn't the barrier depth isn't really deep underneath. It's getting close to this traffic circle installing. The bottom line is it's not the township is moving it because it feel wants to. It's moving because it has to. >> Yeah. And part of the expense, the biggest expense town board was it was for rightaway acquisition that the county, they did take the bigger brunt of it, but we did have a portion that we contributed, right? Cost >> and we asked questions about that by the way, why we're paying for it. >> We should ask why. >> Well, that's ridiculous. I understand your point. I I I know what you're driving at. The problem is the township was not the driving force behind that realignment. It was Mandot and the county. >> I understand. >> So, yeah. >> Okay. Well, I'll just move on to his point, too. I did go to a meeting a couple years ago on the H2 bike and most people there didn't want the bike. I live on Otter Lake Road and like you've mentioned before, they want to put a bike path in front of my house, too. Well, my neighbors all don't want that. They're going to either take part of their front yard or they're going to go across the road and take part with the lakeside and it'll end at what J. Are you going to deal with another county? >> No, it ends at Meadow um Meadow Meadow View Drive. >> Okay. But you're also talking about it going Oh, that's that's H2. You connect with Otter Lake Road. You want to talk? No, the Otter Lake Road project would extend the trail up to Meadow Middle Lake Drive >> from Hickory to Meadow Lake. Yeah, land drive. >> And so that'll go through the process starting next year. So, >> well, I hope you have more input like he was asking for, but it seems like we don't have a lot of input on what happens in our own town. So, I understand where you're coming from. you're kind of stuck, but I'm looking at a whole forest that's gone across the street from me. I'm looking at tons more traffic because they had to dump everything in front of my house. And not to mention, they ruined the road and now we got heavy trucks and semis going by constantly. We should really take control of our township a little better than that. >> Well, I understand your point. I do understand what you're saying, but it's who controls the right ofways in in in the and they're being used and the town does not control those rightways. That's the problem. The rightways are controlled by either Mandot or the county. >> I think there's multiple counties. >> Well, there's Yeah. No county on the north side and Ramsey County on the south. And then mind controls obviously the trunk highway right away which that's relatively large. So I know what you're saying but you know the town doesn't control that >> and this is kind of the trickle down well. This is like just our budget meeting. We have unfunded mandates that trickle down from the feds to the state to the county to us. We're at the bottom of that totem pole. >> So we're we're constantly battling at this all the time. >> But with that interchange I didn't think there was going to be any cost sharing. I thought Go ahead. You're going to do the road. Do the road. Leave us out of it. Well, now all of a sudden I think we're into it for what, Dale? 120. >> Yeah. So, out of nowhere now, now we [clears throat] got to spend 170 grand for them to build the road. >> That was your 8,000 cost. >> Yeah. Right. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> See, my point is we don't since the town doesn't control it, the town actually uses right away >> at the permission. And that's and I'm just using the word permission kind of generally, okay? because it's it's not quite the legal way I'd describe it, but you know, the town doesn't control it and has to get permission from the party that does control it, either the county or mindot to put their utilities in that. Otherwise, the town would have to condemn its own rightway outside those existing rightways. >> Okay. So, Otter Lake Road though was not built for heavy trucks and semiis. It's a like a two-lane small highway. So, it's underrated for what they're using it for. So, I would think your township should have some say in the quality of the road and what it's used for. >> Again, it's a county road just like Central Road. We've been battling that terrible road for >> 50 years, but it's a county road. We don't have don't have input on it. >> Does the county want to turn any of the roads back? >> I'm sure they do. >> They'd love to. [laughter] >> No one. >> They'd have to bring it up to our standards and that would cost them a ton of money. >> Yeah. getting skinnier and skinnier. >> Yeah. Yeah. What what uh >> All right. Well, I appreciate your time, but >> yeah. What? >> Unfortunately, I guess we're in the same boat. Good luck with the bike trail. [laughter] >> Thanks, Bruce. >> See you. >> All right. Anyone else? Last chance. Going once, going twice. All right. Seeing none, I need a motion to receive agenda materials and supplements. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All here say I. >> I. A. Motion to adjurnn at 9:24. >> So move. Second. All in favor? >> This can all stay up. Don't worry about it. >> Good. >> Okay. Oh