Welcome to the White Township uh special budget and tax levy meeting. I am Pat Kristofferson. I am the uh township clerk. Um I'm starting off the meeting here just to welcome everybody and go over a few pieces of information. Um, tonight's meeting is not a town board meeting, [clears throat] but this is instead a meeting of the people. The town board staff and town consultants are present as a resource. So, folks that are sitting up here in front will help answer some of the questions that you have this evening. We do have our board members sitting in the back row over there um if they want to chime in mostly as residents rather than uh supervisors this evening. Um the main part of this uh presentation is the tax levy for 2026. Uh when it comes to a vote, only town residents have the privilege uh of voting in setting the budget. Since the meeting is not a town board meeting, the meeting is going to be run by a moderator as we have done in years past. Uh residents may ask questions at the end. So, I do want to emphasize that tonight uh to wait till we get through the full presentation on the the budget and tax levy. We are going to have a just a few technological challenges, mostly just having to do with the delay in signal, but uh our town finance officer will be conducting his presentation as he does usually via team meeting. So, um if there's any kind of a delay, just be patient. and it'll move along. Um anyway, also if you have comments uh not on the budget and or levy, uh we will be doing something a little bit different this evening at the adjournment of the budget and tax levy meeting. We will take a fivem minute break uh and then we will or adjourn to a five-minute break and then come back and conduct our regular monthly or bimonthly meeting this evening. You're welcome to [sighs] make statements at that point if you'd like. [clears throat] Um, so all that being said, again, welcome. Uh, our first, uh, piece of business is that we are going to nominate a moderator from the floor who does need to be a township resident who will be conducting uh, or acting as MC this evening. So, I'm going to ask for anyone who would be interested in being the MC this evening. Bob Germas has volunteered. Can I get a second on that? >> Second. All in favor of Bob running the meeting. >> I All opposed. Okay. Um and just as a further resource, um Chad Lemons is the township attorney. He will be acting as our consulting parliamentarian this evening. So without any further ado, Robert, if you'd like to take the podium. Thank you. >> Thanks, Pat. sort of refreshing to uh hear a vote in a in a public meeting that comes up with a unanimous decision. It's uh something we don't see very much of anymore. Okay. So, as uh Pat says uh as mentioned, we will be using um modified version of Robert's rules of orders to conduct the meeting. and Pat is also arranged to have the minutes of the meeting taken. First item on the agenda to approve after that is to approve the uh the agenda for tonight's meeting. If you don't have an agenda in front of you, there's still a pile of them at the door. Can I ask for a motion then to approve the meeting agenda the meeting agenda for tonight's special township meeting? >> So move motion's been made and seconded. No discussion. Those in favor please say I. >> I. >> That motion passes. [snorts] Okay. Also, and and hopefully you've gotten a chance to take a look at these meeting minutes from last year's special town board meeting, but there is a copy in the agenda packet. [snorts] And we do need to approve those meeting minutes from the December 3rd, 2024 special town meeting. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? >> Approve the minutes. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Motion has been made and seconded to approve the minutes from last year's special town board meeting on December 3rd. Those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay. The meeting agenda or meeting minutes are approved. Okay. And like Beth said, the primary reason for tonight's meeting is to review uh the proposed township budget for 2026 and the property tax levy. So uh now things are going to be a little bit different. >> Tom is out of town, but he'll be on the screen. Hopefully he'll be on the screen. >> He's on there. >> Okay. Okay. Hopefully you can uh see the first slide. Um if not, Pat, you'll have to let me know. >> But as Bob said, tonight's meeting uh the reason for it is to help uh understand the township's budget and our property tax. Uh this is for 2026. And then after the presentation, residents will be asked to uh approve the actual tax levy, but then make a recommendation to the board uh for a 2026 operating levy. The proposed budget as it stands right now uh we have debt service funds totaling a million593,204 for 2026. Uh the township receives a bond rating of double A+ from S&P and a double A1 from Moody's. Each of those are one step below AAA. And the township does have a new debt issue planned for 2026 uh to fund the 2026 street improvements. Uh however, that will not affect your 2026 levy. Uh those uh debt services won't take place until 2027. Uh total outstanding debt as of the end of this year uh will be just under $14 million and for 2026 it does require a debt levy or a property tax levy of $670 thou,000. Uh that is an increase of just over $218,000. And uh if you take a median valued home in the township uh to pay off uh that debt levy uh it would be $9.50 a month on a median valued home. All right. What you do to me? Hold on. All right. For whatever reason, I froze up there. Uh the uh 2026 general fund budget or our operating budget, it accounts for the day operations of the budget of the township. Uh right now it's proposed to increase uh 3.26 26% uh and the main revenue source unfortunately is property taxes. Uh it is a budget which means our revenues do equal expenditures and we are not using any reserves uh to uh balance the budget. This chart here uh compares uh expenditures for 2026 uh to 2025s. And you can see uh because of rounding and so forth. Uh the percentage breakdown uh by department is exactly the same from 2025 to 2026. And obviously public safety, which is uh the largest area and is the largest area for uh just about every single city uh county uh in the state. Uh it's 39% of our operating budget. Uh public works is next at 29%. That's the green area. And then uh parks and general government each of those are at 16%. As I said, public safety is our largest area. Uh it is uh currently budgeted at 2,734,912. Uh which is a 5.06% increase. Uh the biggest uh increase in that area was our police budget for the sheriff's contract, which is just under a 7% increase. And that is based on the Ramsey County uh sheriff's uh budget and the uh seven uh member uh group that contracts for sheriff services. And uh and so uh we basically have to pay what the county has based on our contract. Uh fire protection which we get from the city of White Bear Lake. Uh that is only going to increase uh just over a half% for 2026. Uh part of the reason it's only increasing that amount is because with the formula on how the uh 2026 budget for the city that is dispersed through the different uh contract areas. Uh the township is actually uh a smaller percentage of that uh budget. Uh so our uh increase is much smaller than uh what it has been in the back the past uh for public safety. Again, if you had that median value home, uh your month monthly cost for public safety is just over $30. Next, our public works area uh is increasing 1.35% to just over $2 million. Uh public works in that area includes uh street patching, snow plowing, uh salt sanding, uh those type of activities. It also includes uh maintenance of our our our uh our public works and our administration facility. And again, it's only at 1.35% and for public works, uh, you would pay just under $24 a month. Our general government uh department is increasing uh $70,835 uh to just over a million dollars, which is a 6.76% increase. Uh general government costs uh do um include uh our administration staff, our um planning and our um um elections, our town board, uh all those areas. and it is a uh just over an 11 uh dollar a month increase uh for our monthly uh cost. Finally, we have our park and recreation uh which is actually going to decrease uh 86% uh down to a million99,332. Uh that includes both our park maintenance and the township days in the parks budget. Uh it's going down uh mainly because of uh adjusting uh line items down to what we've actually spent in the last few years. And plus our park uh improvement uh transfer for future park improvements. Uh we left at the same amount as we did for the 2025 budget of $375,000. And for parks, the cost on immediate value home is $1367. Here's our breakdown on revenues. Again, it's very similar to the 2025. Uh the biggest change is probably in our interest earnings in 2025 based on our estimates of interest. Uh it made up just less than 1%. Uh now it's up to 2% uh because of interest rates being higher and the township having additional funds to invest. Uh, so that's probably the one area that's the largest, but you can see in 2025, property taxes made up 86% of our budget, and for 2026, it's going to make up 87% of our budget. Uh, changes to our uh our uh revenue side. In the past, we had uh some uh state aid for public safety to the tune of two just over $240,000 for the last two years. Uh we're no longer receive that in 2026. So, we had to decrease our revenues by that amount. uh building revenues, uh permit revenues based on current activity and past activities, we did increase uh slightly uh 400 uh 4.35%. Uh so it's still just over $100,000 in revenues. Like I said, property taxes are the highest uh um chunk of the budget and our uh property taxes then uh do make up or our fis disparities and our general property taxes. uh because of the formula on fiscal disparities uh we are actually seeing an increase and for 2026 we'll receive 451,461 in fiscal disparities which leaves us a proposed property tax levy of 5,62 uh for uh general property taxes Here's a breakdown of our proposed levy. Again, you'll see that uh general operating levy of the 5,606 352 fiscal disparities of 451461, which gives us an operating levy of 6,57,813. Add in the debt levy of uh $670,000 and it gives us our proposed levy of $6 million727,813. That is an 8.298% increase from our 2025 levy. Taking the monthly service costs on a median value home uh between the two years uh 2025 and 2026. You can see public from 2625 to 3017. Uh public works went from 2367 to 2392. General6 or $116 to $11.33. Park and Rex $13.92 to 13 down to 1367. And then unfortunately because of that new debt levy uh for the 2025 bonds that we issued for the 2025 street improvements, our debt service costs are going from $642 a month to $9.50. So on value home uh they would pay in 2025 it would have paid $8142 compared to $8859 for the homes now uh in 2026. And you can see that the Ramsey County estimated that a median value home in 2025 was 378,900 and for 2026 it has increased to uh $395,450. >> [clears throat] >> Now, if you take our budget, our operating budget, uh we've got a number of things that are uh supported by the tax levy. As I said, you can see what our our uh general fund operating levy is, debt service levy to get us to 7 million uh 628, 730, 773. Now much of our budget because we are small is uh based on contracts and if you take our general obligation uh or our general fund uh we have approximately uh $3,169,217 uh that our budget that is actually set by contracts uh mainly from other organizations. And then if you take our debt service levy uh of 670,000, uh you can see that we'd have uh 3,839,217 [clears throat] set by contracts. Now, our personnel costs uh are public works. They are unionized. Uh the union contract does call for an increase in 2026 uh to stay within um pay equity laws. Uh that same increase would be given to the administration staff. So if you add in personnel as a uh contract or legal obligation, that adds just over another 2 million to those contract costs. So, out of our 7,628,000 levy, uh 5800 5,849,000 is basically uh based on existing contracts. That leaves us with a,779,750 that I'll call uh discretionary spending or not contract spending. And that includes uh services such as our uh annual cleanup day, our park improvements, uh township day, movies in the park, uh code enforcement, street patching, snow plowing, those type of services. If you take a median val or if you take the different valued homes that are shown on the screen and you reduce the levy by $100,000, you can see based on what we're proposing, uh the first column here is the home value. This next column is what we are proposing with our current levy. And then if you reduced it by a h 100,000, you'd see what those homes would uh those same valued homes would be paying. And you can see that they would be saving uh $11 all the way up to $24 a month in savings if they were for each $100,000 of budget that they would cut. Here's a listing that Ramsey County puts out. uh all the cities in uh Ramsey County what their 2025 was compared to their 2026 proposed levy is. And you can see a lot of the cities do have doubledigit increases proposed. Uh our current uh proposed one at 6,727,813 uh is an 8.29 8% increase. And with that type of an increase, you'd have six communities in Ramsey County with smaller increases and 12 with larger increases than what the township is proposing. uh factors that a that uh drive your property taxes. Uh Ramsey County Assessor sets your market values. You get notices of of what your value is going to be for the next tax year. Uh in the spring each year, uh state legislature then sets the class rates. Uh they haven't changed much uh in recent years. And then uh that class rate is applied to your market value to create tax capacity. Uh the township then establishes its property taxes just like the school district will determine its property tax levy and the county will determine their property tax levy and uh that levy is then divided by the total uh town tax capacity and then that tax capacity is multiplied by your or that gives us our tax rate which is then mult multiplied by your uh individual property tax uh tax capacity. This chart shows how the township's tax capacity has changed over the years and for 2026 uh Ramsey County has it an increasing an estimated 4.8% 8% over the 2025. Uh based on that tax capacity and our proposed tax rate, uh the township would have the second lowest tax rate in Ramsey County at 27 uh 641. [snorts] uh only North Oaks, which the majority of their services are paid through a homeowners association fee, uh is lower. And then uh the closest one uh uh above us is the city of Little Canada uh which is at 28 932. If you apply uh the median value home in the township, which is at 395,450, and you applied it against each of those communities, uh proposed tax rates, uh you can see again because we are the second lowest in tax rate, you'd that home would pay the lowest uh taxes in Ramsey County with the exception of North Oaks, which would of the homeowners association being paid. Uh this chart shows how the median valued homes in the township has changed over the years. And for uh for 2026 uh the median value home is a 4.37% increase from the 2025 median valued home. uh based on uh different home values uh going back to 2017. If you had a home valued at uh 180,146 in 2017, that home based on Ramsey County numbers would now be valued at 267,9 uh 15. uh their tax increase between 2025 and 2020 uh6 would go from $621 to $679. And if you go to the higher end, you're looking at uh an increase um from uh in taxes from 1,366 to uh 1,486. Uh and again uh the the home value would be uh lowerend one there is from 20 higher one is at the 2026. The breakdown of the your property tax uh statement that you get from Ramsey County. Uh you can see the largest portion of the taxes goes to Ramsey County. They they make up just over 41%. Uh the township makes up 22.5% of your property taxes. uh the school district 28.6 and then you've got a bunch of u miscellaneous districts uh water sheds those type of things that make up uh just under 7.4%. Uh once our budget document is done uh it will be available on the town's website uh Facebook uh so you can view it uh then and uh in summary uh the total general fund uh budget is 6,958,773. It's an increase of 3.26%. Your total property tax levy is proposed at 6 million727 uh dollar and 8 6,727 813 and it's an increase of 8.298%. Uh the township's tax rate of 27.641 641 uh would give you the um monthly cost on a home depending on its value of anywhere uh from $5658 to $12383, which is an increase of $4.83 to $9.91 per month. And with that, I will take any questions. >> Okay. Uh Tom, can you hear me on the microphone right now? >> I can. >> Great. Okay, folks. Uh Haley and I are going to go around with [clears throat] a microphone to whomever has a question. Um it is very important that you speak right into the microphone when you are asking your question so that Tom can hear you where he is. Nice job, by the way, Tom. Um, we're Bob, I I I don't know if you wanted to add anything. I just want everybody to understand that everybody's time is valuable here and we've got people that will want to ask questions. I I would ask that you if someone has asked a question already that you have in mind, uh, let's not or let's not ask them again. So, Bob, >> just uh just add to that uh if you have a question, please identify yourself and your address. So, with that, we'll open it up. Are there any questions? >> Hi, I'm Greg Hippinger, 5476 Bald Eagle Boulevard East. A couple of questions on the budget. Um the increase for fire is 6.99 and or for for law enforcement is 6.99 and for fire 0.53. Why is community development budget going up 14%. >> Tom, did you get that? >> I did. Uh the reason community development is going up, we've had more activity than we've had in the past and our planner retired a number of years ago and we now contract that out with uh [clears throat] TKDA and we're having more expenditures with uh planning and development type uh activities. Some of that can be build back out to developers uh but not all of it. And so uh that is the main reason is uh our uh budget for uh consulting services and uh planning and development uh needs to be increased because we're spending way more than what uh we budgeted in the last two years. Any other questions? >> Yeah, good evening. Uh Tom Mike Saki, 5593 Hugo Road. I'm just wondering uh besides property taxes, are there other um revenue sources such as permits and licenses, charges for services, other fees that could be um adjusted to um reduce the property tax increase um if possible. Get that Tom? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um not really. A lot of the building permits uh fees are set uh by uh the state building code. Uh so we're kind of locked into those. And the other issue we run into with uh permits uh is that we are fully almost fully developed. Now the good news is we've had more commercial activity which has spurred on uh some of those expenditures I just talked about. Uh but we're also getting more building permit revenue in which is why we slightly increased uh our building permit revenue uh over for 2026. Um but uh those are restricted. the uh when we do other activities for some of the uh surrounding communities uh such as uh working in Gem Lake and stuff, we do bill them uh for those services based on our costs. Uh sometimes depending on what it is, we're restricted uh by state law on to what we can charge. Also, uh there's a number of things uh like licensing and stuff uh that uh the state defines what we can and cannot do uh in those areas. And so we're really kind of limited on our other revenue sources. And you know if I showed you know that that pie chart I showed earlier where uh it showed the breakdown of the different revenues. I think over the last 20 years if I showed that you that same pie chart uh our property tax levy was 80 anywhere from 80 to no 80 almost 88% of our operating levy. And unfortunately, I think it's only going to get worse as time goes on, unless we hit a major uh redevelopment trend. So, we're kind of limited into uh some of the other revenues that uh we can generate. Now, like I said in that when I showed that chart, the one good news is uh interest rates have gone up and we've had more funds to invest and so our interest earnings has gone up, but for one area to go up uh a couple percentages really doesn't uh help us all that much. >> Tom Mike's got a follow-up question here and thank you for that ray of sunshine. >> Sure. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Uh so if I understand the uh the figures, if we're limited by revenue um how we can increase revenue and the expenditures are were kind of locked in uh by contract and and other uh uh obligations, the only real opportunity to reduce is in the discretionary spending amount of the $1.779 million um figure. Uh and then also uh you mentioned the uh the debt service for 2027. Do you have a approximate estimate of how much that will be? Is that going to be an additional 670,000 or more uh next year uh when you when you have to issue that debt? Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Um the debt part that's the easy part. Uh no. Uh the 670,000 is actually uh four different bond issues. The uh 2025 bond issue added about uh 200,000 uh just a little bit more than 200,000 uh to the tax levy. Uh and it really will depend and and the engineers are currently working on feasibility studies and uh the project scopes right now for the 2026 road projects. Once they get that uh pretty much set in stone and the board has approved those projects, uh then we'll be able to uh take those costs uh figure out which uh other revenue stream we uh projects and then uh issue a bond based on that which will uh generate a property tax levy. Uh the property tax levy for ad additional uh uh projects uh can run anywhere from uh 150,000 to 300,000 a year uh depending on the size of the projects and the other funding sources. the discretionary uh items. Yes, if you were to reduce the levy, uh those items would be where we would have to um make our uh operating cuts. Uh we're pretty much locked in on the contracts. I mean, there's not much you could do with those uh personnel uh you know, short of uh laying off uh individuals or uh uh taking them away. But of course then that uh starts to affect services which uh because we are such a small staff um you know we have nine public works employees and uh eight office uh employees in including our building inspector code enforcement officer. Uh so once you start uh taking staff away uh it's going to take longer to get different services done and so forth. Um obviously if you cut park improvements uh parks aren't going to be uh equipment isn't going to get replaced as uh when needed. Uh likewise uh road improvements uh or street patching could be delayed and so forth. So, um, but unfortunately that's the only place we have, uh, if, uh, the levy is reduced at any point, uh, to make up that difference would be, uh, from those areas. Um, so I hope that answered your question. >> We got another question here. >> Um, Tim David, 5294 Baldigle Boulevard East. If you allow me, I'll sit. I have a bad injured ankle and I really cannot uh stand on it. So, I did print out the package before the meeting, so I had a chance to go through it. I've got about five questions and some comments. So, if I could um slide 17, if you're able to advance the slide for the Tom, >> can you move the slide to slide 17 on the screen? >> I'm going to try. Y >> it's the pie chart a proposed 2026 budget. >> Is that the one? >> No. Slide page 17. Proposed 2026. >> I don't have the same packet you do, so I don't know what's on page 17. Well, it's proposed 2026 budget expenditures in 2025 and expenditures 2026 by department. >> Um, it show it shows two uh pie charts. Um, and yeah, the >> All right, I know which one. Slide seven. >> Yeah, >> he's different numbers. Okay, we're all looking at SL page 17. >> Yeah, we're getting there. >> All right. Sorry. Am I going backwards? Unfortunately, it's making me go piece by piece. Keep going. there. Okay. >> No, with the pie charts. >> Yep. This one, Tom. >> Okay. If you'd pause there, Tom, uh this uh slide uh maybe it's more of a comment, but it shows expenditures by department. What it does not show as activities or cost items. And uh my note here or maybe a question would be that if you were to identify cost items uh line by line items in your chart of accounts salaries um increase on every line item from 4% 4.84% to 9.38%. Um, a national salary survey by a company called Paycale, one of the leaders in salary surveys, identified in 2026, the average government employee will realize a 4.0% increase in salary. So, I guess my question is at the township, we're at 4.84 to 9.38. Is there an opportunity for cost reduction there? Even though I I recognize you mentioned contractual obligations, uh labor contracts, is any of that wage, salary discretionary or is there an opportunity to reduce by one FTE? >> Uh that would be the way to do it. You'd have to uh eliminate uh position. Um we're locked in on our union contract. It calls for a three and a half% cola the beginning of the year, but we have are also on a pay scale system and we have people that are moving still moving through that pay scale. So they get uh for lack of a better word a step increase besides the cola. Uh we also have in the contract um where some of the public works guys uh get additional money for obtaining licenses so that they can better serve uh the town with uh uh different activities. uh we try to um build those out. And then unfortunately because of uh the pay equity laws, uh we have to pay uh non-UN uh employees that have similar positions uh to public works positions similar pay. Uh so again, we're kind of our office staff, even though they're not union, uh ends up on the same uh pay scale and we got people that are still uh moving through those pay uh uh steps. uh which is why you're seeing uh the pay increases or the the personnel costs uh increases uh varying from department to department based on uh those individuals uh going uh through the different steps. Also included in personnel services is our health insurance. uh that uh increase uh is a little bit higher than uh what uh the pay scale increase is. Again, we have to provide that uh per the union contract. And then in 2026, the uh state of Minnesota uh passed a legislative law uh which uh now requires the township uh and the employees to pay into a a time off uh bank uh into the state which uh is brand new. Uh we're working with the union and have come to an agreement with the union that the cost of this new insurance uh the employees and the the township are going to split the cost 5050. Um it's not a huge cost for that but it did also increase our uh personnel services. So there's uh more to wages than uh inpersonnel services and as I said uh about the only way you can reduce uh personnel cost would be to uh lay off an employee which you're then going to uh affect services in one way or another. >> Thanks Tom. Just as a a [clears throat] side note to Tim had mentioned or had referenced a or a salary or pay scale evaluation company. We do contract with a third party MRA net uh to do our our pay scale set which the board passed two years ago. Um we are at market neither above or below. Uh and that has been blessed for or that evaluation has been blessed for or one more year after this one. So, >> okay, I'm gonna try and keep moving here. Um, page 24, which is seven slides from here, Tom, it is the proposed 2026 budget. >> So, going forward, >> you're you're going forward in the slide deck, list out the >> It's this one. This one? >> Nope. It's got the right there. Hold it, Tom. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. This slide I want to make a note. I I kind of call this I view this as the money slide. The really bottom line total tax levy 6,727813. That really is the property tax levy that we as property taxpayers have to pay. Correct. And and please just a yes or no. >> I think that's what I understand. We are to pay. Let me go on. The 8.29 >> percent increase from 2025 to 2026. That really is a number that is relevant if your market value was unchanged for your property from 2020. So if your market value went up, your percentage increase is going to be up also. So, and what that 8.298% represents is, I believe, a $515,000 increase to the township's revenue from property taxes. Um, this is where I tend to wonder if we could make that a 7% increase or a 6.5% increase. Um, going back to the average value of a home, which went up 4.37%. So, if your home went up 4.37%, you add that on to the 8.29. Okay. My next item is page 26, just two slides ahead, Tom. Yeah, right there. And the the point was already made, so I won't elaborate, but discretionary spending of $1.8 million. Um, this seems to me to be a great opportunity to um identify cost savings, spending reductions. Uh, my next item is on page 27, the next page. Yeah, it's titled proposed 2026 budget, but it's about if we reduce the request for property taxes by $100,000, we save x amount of dollars. And I imagine the slides maybe initially to indicate it's not a lot of savings, but I do want to note to the township that the township needs to recognize that each of us property tax payers. The township is only one of eight governmental entities that are taxing us. So yes, if we can reduce our taxes here a little bit, that would help. Then we're going to go to Ramsey County. Then we need to go to school districts. And that's only a fraction of the eight that are taxing us. All right. Um, the next item I'll get is 28. And I'm going to wrap up here quick, gang. Slide 28. Yes, this one. What isn't shown here on a nice bar chart is the percent increase comparing the township to all the other municipalities. And if you put the percent increase that we are experienced as property tax payers at at 8.29, we are the fifth lowest of all these municipalities. I'm sorry, we are the seventh lowest at 8.29. If we go down to 7%, we are the fifth lowest. If we go to 6%, we're the fourth lowest. So when you think about percent of property tax increase, which is what we have to pay, we are not the lowest of all those township municipalities. >> And with that said, I'm going to pass. >> Thanks. >> Any other questions or comments? >> Craig Gray, 2681 Southshore Boulevard. My question comes back to the first question that was asked tonight. Um, and I want to understand when or is it never? When are the opportunities there and who makes the decision to impact the contracts or other decisions that may not happen every year? and and how do we kind of get ahead of this and and make an impact at those big junctures because those are bigger dollar amounts even than the the 1.7 or 1.8. >> Tommy, you hear that? >> Yeah, I did. Um I guess it really depends on the contract. Um they all come due at different times obviously. Um, I know Pat sits on the uh sheriff's contract group uh of city administrators that meets with the sheriff's department regularly on their budget, which is part of the county budget obviously. um White Bear Lake uh for the fire. We're currently uh negotiating or working towards uh a new agreement uh the end of next year >> I think. Um Tom >> and so it really depend depends on the contract but with that I'll let it to go to Pat. Okay, Tom, if I may, uh, just for clarification on that second point with the, uh, fire or fire department with White Bear Lake, we're currently in litigation because we felt we were not given any input into an increase in our contract two years ago. Um, so we are trying to change that part of it. As [clears throat] Tom mentioned, uh we do sit at the uh contract communities table for deputies and uh sheriff patrol from RCSO and our increase is directly related to what it is that's proposed to us. Now, I believe we started out we might have started out the negotiating process at 12% this year. We ended up getting it down about five or six points through excruciating discuss discussions. So, Good. Okay. Mike. Uh Mike Demar's uh 5474 Peterson Road. Uh Tom, on that same vein, the in the proposed budget, I think it's page 23 in our packet, but it says um no public safety aid from the state. So that was a $240,000 decrease. Um, is that I'm just curious why that happened and then does that sort of play into what we've been talking about. >> Um, I can answer that one. Um, so two years ago the legislature had a surplus and [clears throat] felt like sharing that or or almost half a million dollars with us um for for that year. Ch Tom and I because we were going to be anticipating um an increase in our fire coverage split that in half over two years to absorb some of that impact. So we split it in half to over those two years. We don't have it now unfortunately. So good. Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> Any other any other questions? Let me get somebody who hasn't gotten yet. >> Cory Huberty, 5464 Beligo Boulevard East. Um I have a question on the um safety. So the police is a 7% increase this year and it's one of the biggest items. Have we looked at um looking at like White Bear or Washington County for that service? Thank you. >> Uh we did look at white bear a number of years ago. uh uh they would have been uh more cost effective or more costly uh and less service because they would have had to hire additional uh dep or sheriff or police officers to uh cover us. Um again, Pat sits on the sheriff's group. I'll let him kind of maybe respond to that one, too. So, I don't know if that was clear enough, but yes, we have taken that into consideration. Anybody else? Right there, Mike. Yeah, Mike Saki again uh here. Tom, I was just uh looking at um the last five years on a couple of the charts that you have here on on our packet. It's uh pages 34 and 35. The median value home changes uh comparing to the property taxes on the residential property chart. Um if I look back from the year 2021 to 2025, um I see a approximate median home value increase of 33%. Uh if I look at the increase in property taxes from that same period, uh that's um about a little over 58%. Uh, so I'm just um you know concerned that the the property tax percentage are going up much more rapidly than the median home value changes and increases. So I just maybe want your take on that. Yeah. Um really the only big um change in our property tax uh levy uh has come in in I guess uh I'll say uh two areas. Again, we've kind of beaten the public safety area to death here. Uh but the township did undertake uh a 10-year road improvement uh plan uh seven or eight years ago. Uh from that plan uh we went from having no debt uh levy uh to now where we have to have a $670,000 uh debt levy. We've issued bonds in uh 2019 uh 20 and 21. Uh last the last few years we funded the projects internally using up some reserves. Um but now we're back into the bond market to finance some of the uh future uh road improvement projects. Um, so to go from uh zero uh for road improvements to 670,000, that's quite a jump. And part of our problem there is uh we do not receive uh state aids or MSA money. Even though as a town residents you purchase gas and pay gas tax money, uh we do not get MSA money uh to repair our roads. So it it falls mainly on our residents uh for uh coming up with those uh funds. Uh we've been fortunate where we've been able to use reserves. We then uh also assess uh affected property owners for it, but there's always going to be a property tax levy uh component to it unless we can start getting some uh other aids from some other sources. the uh and then like I say, the other big area where we've had the budget increase is obviously uh public safety uh which is based on our contracts. Uh White Bear Lake uh was uh having some big increases for a while to uh some capital improvements that uh equipment and so forth that they were doing. Um and then switching from a uh almost completely volunteer uh on call uh department to now having full-time uh firefighters uh to respond to calls because they're having troubles getting uh especially daytime firefighters. Uh all those have increased our public safety costs considerably over that time. the market values on the homes. Um, [clears throat] you know, that's all driven by the county assessor. Uh, he comes up with those values. As I say, you should get a notice of your change in value each spring. Uh, there's an appeal process for those. Um, the township gets very little say into that. And then depending on what uh other values do and stuff, if commercial values tend to go down one year because of high vacancies or what have you, um it shifts some of the burden of the taxes on to the residential more and so forth. So, um, some of the, uh, market value increases, you know, are kind of out of our our hands, but according to again, uh, the law and the way I understand it, the market values that the county assessor uh, puts onto your home should be reflective of what you could uh, sell your home for. Um, you know, that's You know, like I say, there is a a process when those notices go out in the spring, uh, which you can appeal it. Uh, the assessor would then come out and, uh, take a look at your home and so forth and could re-evaluate, uh, the value on it. But, uh, that's kind of that process. Cheryl Smith, 5713 Jenny Lane. I'm gonna follow up on a comment that you made, Tom, on that we as a township aren't receiving certain funds from the state. And I'm just wondering when the last time the township did an analysis on a township government versus if we were a city if there would be any tax savings on that, what the ramifications would be so we could get some of those state funds. >> Hey Tom, why don't we do one of the supervisors want to speak to that? I know it was before my time that we had talked about or managed about possibly becoming a council format. Okay. >> Uh we Ed Prudon, I sit on the town board, we've gone through a number of um attempted annexations where they think uh the city could take over some more of the township. The problem is right now, and I think our attorney will speak to this, we are fully developed, which means we have full services to all our residents and all our residents get sewer, water, police. So there's no advantage or there's no capability of them annexing property from us. Now part of that problem too is though because we're a township, we're not we're excluded from the formula that gets us money, MSA money. We have neighbors uh right next to us that get over two million a year >> or I'm sorry, LGA. But either way, they've get funding that we do not get. Now, we've been working with our reps to try to help them lobby for us. We'd like to have the township called reclassified as a what's the term? Urban Township. If that's the case, then we may be able to apply for some of these funds and that would help obviously our budget. But for now, we're we're in the same boat. We did get one a onetime fee of seven million which the board has diligently spread out hopefully over 20 years that we can use on our road improvements by using the interest and some of the the principle that's also helping bring down our budgets. But again, we get no other sources. So, what you folks decide to do tonight is uh vote on what we've got. And I tell you what, we're we're pretty fiscally responsible. I believe we're we look at this budget for the whole year. I don't see any places where we can just say take some money out. If we do that, you're going to cut services. And the folks in this room are going to depict what happens to the whole township by how you vote tonight. If you vote to to reduce the budget, we're going to have to take matters into our own hands because the board's going to decide where we're going to cut. And usually it's amenities. We don't have a lot of them. So, I would just like to reemphasize how you vote tonight affects everybody in the township, not just the folks in the room. >> Well, just to follow up on that, I wasn't thinking that I wanted to join White Bear Lake at all, but I'm just wondering, couldn't we then become a city of our own, White Bear Township or White Barrett or something? So it wouldn't be annexed. I don't want to be annexed by anyone. >> Again, I think if our attorney can explain to this because we are five independent u entities, we cannot form a city because we don't have continuous boundaries. >> Really? must be. >> Okay, any other questions? >> Uh, Nathan Durkis, 5289 Pleasant Court West. So you mentioned the reduction in services. Can you talk a little bit more about what kind of reduction in services have been discussed specifically? Okay. So something but not sure what. >> Okay. >> Yeah. If we were to like I Like I said, if you know, we're kind of stuck with a small staff. So, I mean, anytime you reduce the staff, you're going to reduce some type of service, whether it's streets get plowed later than what they do now, uh grass gets mowed later or gets longer, uh those sort of things. um parks, uh like I say, the m, you know, the replacement of some of the playground equipment, the um general maintenance of it. That's all going to have to uh be looked at. Those are really the only, you know, township day and movies in the park. You could not h hold those. Uh but again those are things that are well attended and and uh provide a service but uh those would be the areas that would have to be looked at. >> Mr. Rusk has some comments. Tom, hold on. >> Hi, [clears throat] another thing to answer your question. I'm Steve Rusek. I'm also on the board. One of the areas, you know, we have movies in the park. We have our township days. And depending where you are in the township, they like them. Other people might say it's a waste of money. But those are the discretionary items that we have to look hard at. And he mentioned plowing, you know, do we cut out all overtime? Those are all things that you have to take into account. So those to answer your question, what kind of things could be cut? Anything that is not in that got to have category, got to pay for, we just have to look hard at it. I'm Beth Artner. I'm also a town board supervisor and it seems like everybody here is pretty ticked off. I know I don't like the increases my property taxes. What can we do? I mean, you know, we've we've ragged on the board and I know cuz I've sat there and looked at the budget and there's not a lot. But, you know, who else do we you know, who can we write letters to? Who can we beat on because they seem to need it? comment. Any other questions? >> Thank you. Uh Tim David, I just want to address the idea of what where could we cut um there is 1.779 $1.8 8 million what is deemed to be discretionary uh spending. And the idea that Township Days and Movies in the Park might be a candidate, that's really a red herring. Um sorry, but that $1.8 million, Township Day and Movies in the Park are $49,000. That's a red herring. That is immaterial. um when in fact things like contractual services for 2026 is up 9% $100,000. We are paying $49,000 for tree tremors. Tree trimmers come and clear cut wooded areas uh like Four Seasons Park. I think we spend almost $100,000 just on tree cutting in wooded areas. So there are significant amounts of opportunity to make cuts. Again, we're not talking about bare bones by any means, but if we reduce from 8.29% to a 7%, all we're asking, that's only an $80,000 cut. If we ask for 6%, which helps every taxpayer in the township, that's $140,000 additional savings that we need from the township. Remember, there's $1.8 million of discretionary. We currently are mowing 25 parks and we've got a great park system. I'm on the park board. I love the park system. But we've identified that there are parks that are 10 acres plus and we are mowing every 10 acre of that park. We maybe only need to mow five acres. So there are things that we can do to just reduce our cost a bit. At 7% we're only asking for an $80,000 reduction. Uh just a comment from the moderator here. Um we've identified a lot of issues here, but at some point it's up to you all in the attending here to make a recommendation in the form of a motion. If there's some specific solution that you see or remedy that you see, motion ought to come from the floor and vote on it. That would go to the town board to review and accept or reject. Otherwise, uh the [clears throat] other option right now on the floor today is to go ahead and make make a motion on accepting the budget as proposed. >> Keep in mind though that all we do is overall actual allocation of funds. don't have the >> Well, the next step, uh, >> hold on, Bob. Tom, be quiet. >> Hold on. Hold on. >> Uh, so it's up to the town board to allocate the money to not not understand has no legal weight to it at all. Chad, just to rephrase what I stumbled through before, what what what what would come from the floor here would be just a reduction in the total budget, not reduction item I by item, >> right? >> Amendments. >> Exactly. It's the total levy which is the budget. >> Okay. And then it's up to the town board to accept to receive that and then decide the specific areas of reductions or changes. Okay. Did I confuse that enough for you or >> But if I may, >> only if you promise not to confuse us anymore. >> Well, I probably will. >> The residents need to approve a property tax levy for 2026. That is what they would reduce. by whatever amount they want and then they would have to recommend a budget that would support that property tax levy. >> Got it. [snorts] >> Kiz Taylor, 5211 West Bald Eagle Boulevard. So can that uh number be put in as a percentage kind of as uh Tim David suggested we don't have to like give an actual number but it can be as suggested as a percentage >> the actual levy >> you have to you want to lower the levy >> okay um I've got a couple other questions too I just wanted to ask uh Chad >> um a little bit about um could you elaborate on the state equity laws as far as um uh like increases and step increases? I know that those are are for contract employees, but people that are non-contract, what does that mean? They're state equity laws that they have to match because as >> pay pay >> it's not right now contract one which Everyone else is contract but under state 40 years it goes back whatever the union contract calls for the statute requires that contract >> but not a match it's more taken to account. >> Can you can you explain pay equity a little bit further or clear? >> Me? >> Yeah, you Tom. >> No, the other Tom. >> Okay. Well, I >> just kidding. Just kidding. >> Yeah. So, go ahead. It's pay equity. >> It basically Yeah. Pay equity basically groups different jobs and assigns points to them based on uh >> responsibility levels and and different things. And it basically says if you have have for instance a public works maintenance uh person working and making let's just say $80,000 a year. And then you have a um uh receptionist or a permit tech uh person whose job responsibilities are very similar to that public works maintenance person. They also need to be paid similar wages uh or in that same pay grid system. So, uh, with that, uh, you have different jobs that, you know, you may say, okay, this position seems like it's being overpaid or or underpaid or what have you, but it all matches up. And and when it was originally created, the reason it was created was uh you had positions such as public works maintenance positions that were, you know, 90% uh male positions and then you had uh secretariat positions which were 90% women and they weren't weren't being uh paid the same, if you will, or paid equitably. ly uh come to the state. And so they passed uh these laws and everybody had to fill out uh various uh job duties and and responsibilities and so forth. And the state came up with a system that rated them all so that they could all be put into this uh grid. And we have to as a government agency, I think it's every 3 years, we have to file reports with the state. In fact, ours is due at the end of January of next year. Uh we have to um supply the state with all of our positions, the number of males in the positions, number of females in the position, and what everybody is earning. and they determine if or not we're meeting their pay equity uh law uh standards. And if we don't uh we can get fined uh if they uh luckily so far uh the years that I at least filled out the report uh we've met their criteria and uh so that's basically the guts of the program. >> Okay. Okay. So Tom, just addition I mentioned to Tim's question the we contract with a payroll company MRA that sets those standards for us that we say within pay equity laws. So do you did you have another question? >> Um so there wasn't really much said about the equipment or depreciation estimates. I'm sure that's part of the budget too and how that can be adjusted or accounted for or maybe reductions made in that. Hey Tom, can I answer that one real quick? >> You sure could. >> Okay, so our past supervisor, Scott Mchune, uh after several years of us doing just that is reducing the depreciation to what were we down to 60% annually when we when we did our budgeting for a few years there, Tom? He um Scott >> I think when you started when you started we were down around 60%. >> Okay. And so the Scott over two years asked the board that we fund that at 100% annually in our budget. >> One other hypothetical question. It just seems as though that there's a lot of emphasis put on the market value of homes, but if it tanks again in 2008 like it did, then what do we do? >> That's a good question, Tom. >> Um, yeah. Um, obviously it doesn't generate as much taxes. Uh, it depends on if it's just the residential market that tanks. Um, back uh when it went down in in ' 08, uh, commercial values for a while still held their their end, so they were still increasing a little bit. Um, unfortunately the township doesn't have a whole lot of apartments. Uh, but apartment values uh have been skyrocketing. Uh, back then they did and in uh and currently they've been going up. Uh, not so much for 2026, but previously they were going up. Um so um but you're right uh if values if all values go down um the to total tax capacity of the township would go down if we kept our levy just the same to keep providing the exact same services we have now. Uh that tax rate would go up. So even though your value went down, you would end up paying more or similar taxes because the rate is higher. So instead of being uh 27%, your tax rate would let's just say jump to 30%. Um that's if we kept the levy and your values went down. Um, so it's all part of the the formula. Uh, and without getting too complicated, um, and getting into what we'd have to cut or so forth and you know, that would be all part process. Uh, explaining to the board, this is where our values are at. This is the effect it's going to have on the residents. Uh, what do we cut or do we keep the same things or what do we do? Thanks, Tom. Anybody else? >> All right. Any other comments? Let's move on to the next item on next item on the agenda, and that is to approve the property tax levy for 2026 in the amount of 6,727,813. So, we'd be looking for a motion to approve that tax levy. >> I'd like to make a motion to >> Well, I think she called it first. Go ahead. >> Yeah, I make that motion to approve it. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Any discussion? >> Now, it's open for discussion. >> If not, all the guess we do have a couple of questions. Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. >> I would propose to amend that uh motion to instead propose a 7% increase in the budget which would result in a tax levy of 6,647,187. >> So, okay. So, Mr. attorney. We're doing a mo an amendment inside of an initial motion that was seconded. Now we get another second on discuss. >> Okay. So let's discuss. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> So repeat the the numbers for me again. You're you're talking about reducing the the levy to >> proposal would be 7% increase. Okay. So that's the amendment. So that's up for and it's been seconded. So that's up for discussion. Go ahead. Um just from big pictureing the 7% increase pointing out that the township's taxes have increased 58% over the last 5 years that greatly exceeds I imagine the incomes of the rest of second that proposed township budget is almost more than twice the current rate of just to say that I think all the residents here support all the staff. We think they do great work. Keep going. But we are not proposing to reduce the operating budget. We are just proposing to reduce the increase. It's still increasing by 7%. And again, that's probably more than most people that live in this township will receive an income. We want this township to be affordable for everyone that lives here. Mike >> uh Mike Demar's uh 5474 Peterson. Um I I that's a I I think it's a good idea. I like what you had to say, but the other side of that is we still have to we still have an operating budget of close to 6.9. So if we reduce the property tax levy, then we would have to increase the debt levy. Is that am I tracking that right? No, >> no, no. If you reduce the property tax levy, you would have to reduce the budget, the operating budget. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Kevin. Kevin Hobbach uh 2654 Suzanne the number you came up with the 7% was approximately $100,000 difference 80,000 roughly 100,000 I remember the chart where it had per $100,000 savings that [clears throat] one chart and broke down what that would do. So 80 is approaching that. Um that number made sense to me in the 100,000 the 80,000. Um because looking at that chart, you can interpolate very easily where the particular savings would be. So I can look at my house and see how much it's saved. My question becomes and tonight's tonight to answer that is saving that 80,000 that 100,000 approximate worth the savings that I see on the right for my home to me it does not. Any other questions or comments? >> So, so Chad, what's the procedure here? We've got a amendment inside of initial motion. >> We vote on the amendment. >> Vote on the amendment. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Vote on the amendment. >> Okay. Then I'll call the question. Those in favor of accepting the amendment to reduce the tax levy by $100,000 >> approximately >> approximately or approximately $80,000. Uh, those in favor, please say I. >> Raise your hand. >> Yeah, I better do that. Those in favor, please raise your hand. >> 15 in favor. >> Eight. Try that again. I come up. Raise your hand if you're in favor of the amendment. 5 12 13. >> Yep. >> I got 13 this time. >> So, we're voting on the amendment. >> Raise your hands real high. [laughter] >> One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. >> Amen. >> Oh. Oh, okay. >> No, no, no, no. We're sorry. No, we're trying to count the >> trying to count them >> appropriately. Yeah. >> Hard to do. >> One, two, >> paper. That's actually >> what you got. >> That's what I got. >> Hands up. >> Hands up. Amendment has it >> 11. >> Yep. >> The amendment passes. >> Uh 17 to 11. I had Bob. >> Yes. 17 to 11. So the amendment passes. So now the property tax levy would be what would pro what would the property tax levy be? I think I hear two numbers. >> 6,647,187 >> 6,647,000 187 >> 187 I had that once at time. Okay. So now the motion is to approve the tax levy as amended to 6,647,187. Those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed say no. And the eyes have it. So the motion passes. >> Okay. >> For that amended tax levy >> process would be between now and the township board's meeting on December 15th. Staff will meet come with recommendations to the board and board will accept or decline those. Correct Chad? >> Okay. And then the next item on the agenda is uh to approve the general fund budget and that's been proposed at $6,958,73. Okay. Is there a motion to approve? This can be >> okay. >> Tom, I was just asking for a point of clarification that this can also this value can also be proposed to be changed. So, and they're telling me yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, what would that number be? Well, there's right now there's no motion. Okay. Yeah. >> Oh, all right. Okay. So, we're looking for a motion to approve the general fund budget proposed at 6,958,773. Is there a motion to that effect? >> Wait, wait. >> Has to tell us how much it has to be. >> Hold on, >> Tom. How would you like that? >> We don't have >> Go ahead. We've got got to reduce the general fund by that same amount that we just reduced the tax levy. >> So we don't really >> don't have the funds to to pay for it. >> So that's the $80,000. >> Yes. No. >> No. That's right. >> Okay. So that that would change the uh general fund budget >> 6 million >> 878 773. >> Correct. That's correct. >> Okay. That's what I was looking for. Okay. So then we're looking for >> Stop. Stop. Are you going to make a motion? >> Yes. Good. Okay. >> Yep. I make a motion to reduce the general fund budget by an amount of $80,000626 which would equal 6,878,1471 147. All right, the motion's been made. Is there a second? >> Motion's been made and seconded. Any other discussion or questions? If not, I'll call the question to looking for approval of the general fund budget at 6,878,000. What' [clears throat] you say? 140 147. Okay. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Any opposed? That motion passes. >> Sorry, Bob. Didn't mean to surprise you with having to do math. [laughter] >> I probably would have broken my calculator. >> All right, the next item on the agenda is to schedule the date for next year's meeting and the location. And uh that time and location would be 7:00 December 7, 2026. And the location would be Heritage Hall. Is there a motion to that effect? >> Make that motion. >> Is there a second? >> Motion made and seconded. Those in favor, please say I. >> Question. >> Okay. >> For all of us. [clears throat] I guess >> uh it's not I So what I would suggest if everybody's uncomfortable with the parking situation near Lake We've had our annual meetings before. So, >> okay. Can we propose that as a change, check? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> I just had a question. >> Well, let's Is there a second to that? >> Do we get a second? Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> How much is it going to cost to use the electric $2,000? No. [laughter] Love to see you tonight, Ralph. Thanks. >> Um, >> don't make me go back there. >> That will be and this is all fine. It is subject to getting permission there. So the motions should be alternative motion in the event within the township. >> Yeah. Okay. >> The motion that's been motioned is to hold it at Otter Lake school. >> I understand. I'm just suggesting Yeah, that's a good suggestion. Motion to amend that motion to create an alternative uh that being in the event the school is not available will be held here. >> All right. That's all. So we So we have a motion and an amendment. So the amendment is requires a vote. Those in favor of This location is the alternative location, right? >> Yes, second. >> Yeah. Yeah, we had a second. >> Yes. >> So, those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? sort of backwards, but that's now that we look for a motion for Monday, December 7, 2026, 7:00 at Otter Lake School. Is there a motion? >> That was if I may. Um, let's see if you miss a town. >> The actual motion for the citizens is hold the meeting Monday, December 7th, 2026, 7 p.m. at Otter Lake School. And if the Auto Lake school is not available, then to hold it here instead. >> Yeah, that makes sense. But I got a motion over on the corner there. >> That was a motion to amend the to amend motion to amend an amendment. So, the actual motion after all [snorts] and when the dust is settled the actual motion is as I see it and you can correct me because I'm just the attorney here okay that to hold the annual budget meeting Monday December 7th 26 p.m. at at Lake School and in the event the school is not available >> to hold it here. >> It's here. >> That's the motion. That's the motion. >> Clear as much. >> Okay. >> If there's no disagreement on that language, we'll use that as the motion that or now I guess to be official has to come from the floor. Is there someone from the floor to make that motion? >> Is there a second to that motion? >> Okay. Now we have a motion. It's been seconded. December 7th, Monday, 2006 26 at Otter Lake School and Heritage Hall would be the backup in event that Otter Lake School is not available. Those in favor, please say I. >> I. Any opposed? Uh uh we need an alternative date. >> So let's just use the same language just change the date. So it would be uh we should vote on an alternate date of Wednesday, December 9th, 2029 at Otter Lake School at 7 o'clock at Otter Lake School with Heritage Hall as a backup. Any discussion, please? No. No. No. Okay. Those in favor, please say I. I. >> Any opposed? I >> think [clears throat] we made it through that. That motion passes. Is there any other business? >> Yep. >> Uh Mr. MC, if I may, just a reminder to everybody when we in this meeting, we're going to take about a five minute break. Uh we're going to switch around here a little bit. quick normal or regular want to stay and make comments. We got open mic at that. Otherwise, um any other business? If not, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> Is there a second? Second. >> We are adjourned.