hello everybody we'd like to welcome you to the September 11th 2024 city of Mesa Planning and Zoning Board public meeting and we're going to begin by taking a roll call uh chair S I am present Vice chair pitcher here board member Mones here board member blakeman here board member Farnsworth here and then board member Peterson and board member Carpenter excuse not able to attend today and so to begin um we thought it would be appropriate for us to begin with a moment of silence uh with September 11th and uh we'd like to do that at this point all right thank you everybody we thought that would be something appropriate to remember this day it's pretty critical for all of us I'm sure um as part of the agenda we do have a consent agenda it's a lengthy one today and so we'll begin with that and this will be read into the record and act it on in one motion this item will not be discussed individually and we've actually got a board member blakeman to read that for us today I recommend approval of the August 28 2024 planning and zoning board meeting minutes all right and that concludes the consent agenda that we have for today um I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda is read so move is there a second second all right all in favor please vote board member Montes I need your verbal vote Yes all right thank you and I'm sure that is approved all right we're good to go on that item so with that we'll move into the rest of the agenda and turn the time over to staff for presentations we'll move right in there you go all right Emily thank you chair and board members this is case z 23- 00417 for hard and arrow um this request is to rezone from single residence 35 to single residence 35 with a planned area development overlay it also includes a preliminary plat for a 23 lot single residence subdivision the site is located on the south side of mcdal road between Val Vista Drive and Greenfield Road it's in within the uh neighborhood character area with the Citrus subtype it's to provide safe places for people to live where they can feel safe and is characterized by large Lots with single residence homes surrounded by Citrus it's also within the Citrus sub area plan which has low density developments zoned rs35 where custom home developments are encouraged it is currently zoned rs35 and proposed that rs35 pad single residence is a permitted use in that zoning District here is a site photo um looking south from McDow Road um the project site is currently vacant as seen in the previous photo um and the applicant is proposing a 23 lot single family um home lot with an amenity area here is the Landscaping plan that includes two rows of citrus and Chinese pistache along mcdal Road as well as landscape tracks that are lined with citrus trees that lead down to that amenity area um the applicants are requesting a pad overlay the purpose of the over lay is to permit flexibility in the application of the zoning standards when it can be demonstrated that the proposed development provides equivalent or Superior standards the proposed pad includes Lots running on private streets a minimum lot area of 20,000 Square ft a minimum lot width of 110 ft and a minimum lot depth of 130 ft um though the lot size minimums are reduced the overall density for the site is below what is permitted in the rs35 district uh the request also includes a reduction in the minimum aggregate side setbacks to 20 ft and an increase in the maximum building coverage to 40% uh based on neighborhood meetings that were held the applicants are including additional standards that allow Building height on the perimeter lots to be limited to a single story home and that the detached garages not be permitted in the required rear yard which for rs35 is 30 ft um here is the preliminary plot for Harden Arrow the 19 acre project site would be split into 23 single resident Lots um with eight tracks for landscaping private streets and Public Utilities the access is from mcdal Road and the density is at 1.2 dwelling units per acre where rs35 does allow for the 1.24 the applicants did notify property owners and HOAs in registered neighborhoods within a th000 ft um two neighborhood meetings were held in 2022 as well as one in August of 2023 topics discussed include home and lot sizes landscaping and drainage and like we discussed with the pad table they did include specific standards that came out of those neighborhood meetings um since then we have heard from um neighbors um concerning the irrigation and lot sizes as well overall staff finds that the application complies with the 2040 Mesa General plan complies with chapter 22 of the MZ for a pad overlay and meets the criteria for the sub Vision regulations in section 6 9-6 D2 staff recommends approval with conditions and happy to answer any questions thank you Emily is there any questions from the board for Emily just one quick question uh for Clarity on the P overlay is the restriction on the detached garages only on the perimeter Lots or is that on all lots that would be on all of the Lots any no board member montz any questions for you no all right no thank you we'll go ahead and invite the you to come on up get a presentation as well hover there we go do I need to push anything there we go thank you I like how that's hard to Nar oh maybe that's to help me with the name uh sha Lake 1744 Southville Vista here on behalf of the gardener family who has owned this property for quite some time uh as many of you know Garden is their long-standing Mesa family and and owns quite a bit of property and uh we appreciate the garden Gardener family working with us uh to develop this custom lot subdivision which we haven't seen quite frankly in a while to see a custom lot sub division it was interesting as we sent out notice to everybody for this uh project after having neighborhood meetings and so forth when we sent out notice for this Planning Commission meeting it seemed to be more of a marketing mailer than it was a notice for a public hearing because I got quite a few calls of people wanting to be put on the list there's quite a desire uh they like the layout and and wanted to be part of this project uh to build a home in this area maybe downsized from their big home that they they raised their kids in and and want to Downs slow assuming you can downsize onto a half acre 3/4 acre a lot but I guess some people would call that downsizing um to get started many people are familiar with the property it's in the south side of McDow there's been many development proposals over the years to go on this site from home builders like Toll Brothers Etc uh to now where the gardener family says you know what let's just develop this for custom Lots sell these custom Lots off and we think that's a good proposal what we are proposing is is approximately or is 23 homes on 20 acres so a density of about 1.2 and as staff pointed out the density cap in r135 is 1.24 so we're within the density cap of what r135 would be permitted in this area uh one of the key features that I think in this area is that we are providing common area retention for those people familiar with lot development in this area particularly because I live in this area a lot lot of times we'll will Property Owners will plat large lots and have on lot retention and then when people go to develop their homes they develop these gorgeous homes with beautiful yards and do not pay attention to unlock retention that that retention that water goes somewhere and that poor person at the low end of the site ends up having a real problem and so we found that in a lot of the subdivision even adjacent to this property around this area so having a subdivision that has slightly smaller Lots with common area retention we think is a real value so that this neighborhood will not have that problem um as staff pointed out we're staying with the r135 we're well within the density of that uh zoning district and we're also asking for a pate plat approval here's a copy of the plan that you've seen it's a main access or only access will be off of mcdal Road it will be a gated community with a central focalized open space amenity area at the center of the project homes are kind of built off of we'll call it kacs or mini kacs so that you can have that low traffic lot just about every one of these is is a good Prime lot with low traffic Citrus lined along the perimeter or along the entryway and then out along mcdal uh if you picture the Blandford subdivision directly to the not directly but to the east of here the new Blandford subdivision we for lack of a better word cut and paste their landscape plan so the Landscaping that you see outside of Blandford is exactly what you're going to see here so we copied that plan so that there would be some consistency uh so between Blandford this project there'll be a couple of subdivisions that have citrus uh preserved along McDow road again the lot sizes are in that lower corner that you can see but they range from about 21 20,000 Square ft Ono upwards to 32,000 ft based upon the configuration and geometry there Works some some constraints in the site that we had to design around uh there uh originally and and let me get to the next Slide the left slide represents what was presented at the neighbor the last neighborhood meeting the right slide represents what is you're voting on now let me go over some of the changes first off the culdesac size in the city's code changed and so the city even though we were in the middle of the process and we had worked the city made us increase the radi or diameter the cacs because their code the city's code changed so we did do that we also have a drainage easement along the west side or left side that was going to go down the rear of people's Lots we saw that that might cause some contention and and and also accessing that area so we put that in a separate track which caused a slight reduction in some of those lots but effectively they're still the same you're still going to have the same separation between those people's homes uh and the residences to the West so we didn't see that as a detriment actually might be a benefit because the home might be further away because the rear yard setback will be measured from the lot line and not the drainage tra area or property line so it pushes everything a little bit further away from the residential to the West so we saw that as an advantage uh and then there is a uh sewer line that runs kind of down the center of the project that serves the projects as I recall East and West sewer line we thought we could move that sewer line but when those devel elements on the east and west went in and installed that sewer line they did not do it to code so we we're running into some problems so we're we had to shift around and reconfigure the Lots so that we didn't move that sewer line for the benefit of the subdivisions on East and West those were the constraints that we had that made some slight changes you can see the configuration didn't change uh each lot uh changed a little bit for for the most part not the most part the density stayed the same we did not add Lots we did not change anything we just kind of address some City comment so that was the difference that happened between the last neighborhood meeting now at that last neighborhood meeting we did agree and I'm going to read these because two of these four are conditions of approval but I want to make sure that everybody understands what we agreed to do with the neighbors and I got to put my glasses on for this so uh we agreed and those two conditions are that you have we agreed to single story homes around the perimeter and so that was uh important and and a benefit to the surrounding uh community that they would only have single story that's a positive as opposed to just a plaed R1 135 where they could build anything they want um property owner also agrees to limit the primary or agrees to limit the primary residence detach G 30t from the rear yard yard that was an issue because the person behind my home in this area just built a detach accessory structure 5 ft off the property line and then they put a observation deck on the top and they watch me swim so wonderful we are agreeing not to do that with which a standard r135 subdivision they don't have to agreed to that they would just plot it and so that was a benefit to the community we thought that we've agreed to do it as a condition we also agreed that uh we'll establish deed restrictions to provide for a minimum of 3,000 sare ft on the main level which would establish a certain level of quality of homes within this project and we also agreed to establish an architecture Review Committee uh to make sure that the architecture um is of a quality that we would expect in this area all four of those things we have agreed and continue to agree to live up to uh two of which are conditions of approval uh in the zoning case here's a wall plan that kind of talks about the the property and what happens but it will be a very attractive custom lot subdivision uh with amenities in the center we did remove the community pool sometimes those become a liability issue uh insurance issue and so we thought let's just stick with pickle ball courts and and general rata play areas for kids grandkids or whatever in the center amenity area again gated community this is what it would look along mcdal Road and around the perimeter with theme walls uh as well so that's a brief overview of the site um we think this is a good excellent project that meets the standards it meets generally uh all of the conditions we are within the density of the r135 it's a good custom lot subdivision we've tried Tred to as best we can address the concerns of the neighbors there's some private issues that I know will be raised and I can certainly address those in response uh to those if I need be but some of them are private issues that are property owner to property owner that they need to address and and we'll commit to work with them on it we won't commit to having a solution tonight but we'll continue to work with them as property owner Property Owners so with that I'd be happy to answer any questions all right thank you questions from the board I may just a few quick questions um the drainage channel on the west side of the property that's proposed and planned there what if any sort of like perk testing's been done on that um area or I guess a different question might be as you guys are considering that flow that's going to happen if you anticipate any large severe storms and if that water would pool and what effect it might have on the neighbors immediately adjacent I'm looking at my engineer so we have the retention area which would have perk issu they' have to do perk tests on that but this area has been property has been flood irrigated okay for a long long time you can see in the center of the project on the areial uh that Citrus really didn't grow in the center but over here in this corner that Citrus did grow so I'm assuming that there there's not an issue with perk on that the drainage Channel that's a am I wrong that that's a pipe or is that an open It's a combination of a pipe okay no perk test at this point but that would be final prior to final plan okay that's it that's it uh board member montz anything for you no okay no no questions all right thank you I think we're good thank you right now thank you all right with that we'll open up public comment and let me you know what can we just jump right into Zoom we'll we'll start there yes that sounds great ch s um Susan Chiswell submitted an online comment card um to speak and I believe she is online so if Don can unmute her are you there Susan hello hi can you hear me yes we can hear you if you could go ahead and oh yes by stating your name and your address and uh we'd appreciate it sure my name is Susan chriswell I live at 38 East meno I live in the El Camino delce development that's right adjacent to this proposed uh Development Area so my question is um we have flooding Irrigation in our community and the gate that we have to access to turn on the flooding is on an easement between El Camino Dolce and this proposed development so I just want to know how we will continue to access that gate for our flooding there are multiple people within the community and the surrounding areas that need to access that gate it runs right along the uh back wall of Camino doy it doesn't look like they have allowed for any you know access to it on the drawing so the board will not be able to respond to that but what we'll do is we'll have the applicant come up afterwards to respond to you directly do that sound all right that be great thank you all right any other questions or anything else you want to say no that's the main one thank thank you all right thank you sus appreciate it what's our next and then chair s we did receive another request to speak from Scott marello um I have not been told that he's online but I'll give him a minute to see if if we can uh find him in the zoom so he can speak and it doesn't appear that he is online at the moment all right thank you all right then I'll go ahead and move it um for those that are here would like to speak we'll go ahead and bring you guys up if you could begin the same thing um by stating your name and your address and then each of us you have three minutes um we'd appreciate try to stick that as much as we can as we get through the list so the first that I do have is uh C Thomas Bud buddy buddy all right I apologize if I butcher names that's okay everybody does it good afternoon but lady and gentleman um my name is Tom buddy and I live at 3813 East menow Street which is in the AL cinal DOI area and I've been a resident at that site for 30 years and during that time I've taken advantage of the flood irrigation that's available to that area and to the lots to the West along Val Vista that irrigation water is provided by the Roosevelt Water Conservation District and part of the system that brings water to us and to the houses to the West is a gate that is located at the southeast corner of the proposed development and I submitted to the lady at the front a package of papers pictures which I'm going to refer to now to help reinforce what I'm saying in picture number one you see an overview of the map that's been proposed by the developer and at the bottom of it there's a red line that goes all the way across the bottom of that that's the pathway that's necessary for Neighbors to access that valve which is identified by the X in the bottom right hand corner the valve is I don't believe on their property but it's in the proximity of their property but access to it has been gained for the most part where the Red Dot is which is at the end of the Dead End Street of 38th Street so that gives you access onto that Orchard which is now a vacant piece of gland and you then walk across it to get over to the valve to control those valves to send the water where you need to picture number two shows you walking down that pathway approaching the valves in that corner which which is slightly overgrown picture number three gives you a closeup view of that standpipe and valves and the fence to the east of the area where the valve is and if you look the neighbors are real friendly there they've got razor wire at the top of that fence so they're really hospitable to whatever's going on there I'm sure they don't want someone getting on top of the valve and climbing into their backyard but that East End is completely blocked by a fence reinforced by the razor wire picture number four four shows the block fence that's at the north end of that area around that um valve system and picture number five shows the block fence that's around the south end of that area where the valve is at so that valve is in shape in a U-shaped Canyon that's completely surrounded on the North side the east side and the west or south side and the only access is from the West which has been through this property that's proposed to be developed and I did have a conversation with uh with Sean the other day thank you Sean and he assures me that they have every intention of not depriving us and the people to the west of access to that valve but my concern here is is that it's great for him to make that statement but unless it's someplace in a written obligation he can shine me on later on and say hey you're a nice neighbor but so what I'm not doing anything for you picture number five six I'll call your attention to is what Blandford did in the Housing Development to the east called Hermosa Ranch that there's a valve in that area that has the same problem when they developed Hermosa Ranch that valve was going to be cut off from any kind of access and it was going to become an island and so what blenford did is they created as you can see a landscape pathway with a concrete sidewalk that gets you from the street which is off this picture to the right back to the valve which is at the far back off to the left now I'm not suggesting that the developer of this property needs to do that same thing but I am suggesting that they need to do something that will give the residents of Al Camino doci and the residents to the West along Val Vista access to this valve if that's not taken care of our irrigation system becomes completely useless so what I'm asking the bo to do is either make that requirement of some kind of an answer to that question a requirement for approval or to delay approval until that is provided and you know that's beyond my scope of authority to decide that's up to you but I'm requesting your help in holding the developer accountable for helping solve that problem thank you thank you Mr Buddy appreciate your time um next up I have um let's see oh the I'm going to mess this up Justin how do you say your last name Justin Peters Peters oh just couldn't read it you're good I just didn't want to kill your name there my name is Justin Peterson I live in the area I'm a local irrigator for the area um he had a great explanation of how we need to access the Box up in the Southeast corner but I'll bring up the issues with Lady Hawk the development to the West also has three wear boxes we call them or Gates that we need access to which is similar to his little u-shaped thing where it's got uh center block wall to the north to the west and to the it's contained MH only access only way you can get in there we've always done is there's usually a easement a 4ot easement along the wall wall to access those three boxes and without that access the irrigation is void for the subdivision to the West which is Lady Hawk I was here for El Camino as well because I have clients in there but he did explain that so I'm I noticed they had on their diagram that they had that uh retention they're going to you asked about drawing the water out of it or whatever so it doesn't seem like they're going to back up the property lines quite to that wall with that may be more accessible than what he's talking about if they're going right up the property line on El Camino but I'm just here to make sure that usually on those situations it's 4 foot on the subdivision and it's 4 foot on the new subdivision there's A8 foot easement they do the property line every four you know four foot in each side so you can access those and I didn't see anything in the plan so I'm just here hoping that you can uh help out with making sure that's taken care of or we have access to those irrigation boxes all right thank you Mr pet appreciate it all right next up I have Patrick Ryan my questions have been addressed by the last so you're good you're sure all right that's that's easy enough we appreciate you doing that uh Sarah Vance come on up I feel like it's a game show come on hi my name is Sarah Vance can you hear me okay y you're good um I live at 3912 East norro Circle um thank you for the opportunity to speak today I'm here as the HOA president of Rosewood Estates located just east of the area under discussion I'm here to urge you to preserve the current zoning regulations in the Mesa grow also known as the Mesa Citrus sub plan area in particular I want to emphasize the importance of maintaining the 30,000 sqt minimum lot size which is crucial for preserving not just the character but the history of this one-of-a-kind Community The Groves are more than just a neighborhood they are a Living testament to mesa's agricultural Heritage for decades this area has been defined by its vast Citrus Groves large estate lots and Rural fi these elements are part of our City's identity and they reflect a history that stretches back to the early days of citrus farming in the valley the 30,000 ft minimum lot size was established to protect this Legacy ensuring that the land would remain spacious and dedicated to large lot estate style homes that keep the rural landscape intact changing this zoning would be a direct threat to the preservation of that history it would risk replacing the open green spaces that Define The Groves with denser more urban style developments that have no connection to the p past this is an area where John Deer tractors still haul fresh Citrus down Treeline streets where Citrus Groves create a unique microclimate which can be 10 to 15 degrees cooler at night than the adjacent desert areas and where the sight of rows of citrus trees and the smell of citrus blossom in the spring is not just a memory but an everyday reality these are Traditions that would be lost if we allow smaller lots and higher density developments to take over the Citrus sub area plan carefully crafted by the residents was designated was designed to ensure that this region would remain low density and estate style in nature that plan was not just about zoning it was about safeguarding the rural history of this area the 30,000 foot minimum lot side is f is the foundation of that plan it protects the open Landscapes the custom homes and the Citrus Groves that Define this area and give it its unique character this isn't just about Nostalgia it's about preserving a vital connection to our City's Roots the Citrus Groves which have been a part of Mesa for over a hundred years represent a significant piece of a our agricultural history now increasingly rare in the face of Urban Development by protecting what remains of these once 1,000 plus acre Groves and maintaining the current zoning we honor this history and ensure that future Generations can experience and appreciate this important part of mesa's Heritage moreover the historical significance of this area is something that residents and visitors alike value The Groves attract people from all over the valley who come here to experience the rural charm by fresh Citrus and connect with a part of mesa's past that still feels alive families like the Masons who moved here from Chicago two years ago and the Warwood family who moved here from California looked all over the valley but chose this area because it offers something truly unique my husband's ancestors were among early founders of Mesa he is the fifth generation to enjoy the Heritage environment that reflects the beauty and history of mesa's agricultural roots that is something worth protecting once the zoning changes the connection to this history could be lost forever smaller lots and denser developments would erode the sense of space and openness that has allowed the Groves to retain their rural charm despite the city's growth it would replace our historical landscape was something generic and that loss would be felt not just by current residents but by Future Generations who will no longer have access to this living history in conclusion I urge you to recognize the importance of preserving the history of the Groves by maintaining the current zoning regulations particularly the 30,000 ft minimum lot size this area is not just land it's part of mesa's story and it deserves to be protected by keeping the zoning intact we can assure that this historical treasure continues to thrive offering both residents and visitors a glimpse into mesa's Rich past thank you for your time and consideration thank you Mrs Vance appreciate you coming here um CH Cher SS pardon me um I just want to make make sure I believe board member Montes had to leave so is she's still on the zoom I believe she is not on the zoom okay great I just wanted that on record that board member Montes has left thank you um and then we didn't get the last one that came on Zoom I cannot remember his name I apologize Scott has still not joined the zoom no okay all right I think that was the last one I have we do have one more comment that was just for us to review so we do have a few of those so everybody knows um we also did uh review um this document that was provided so I want everybody to know we've kind of looked through all of these the photographs and everything as well so with that we'll go ahead and invite the applica to come up to respond to some of the public comment we've had at this point chair SS pardon just procedurally um you need to close the public hearing prior to the applicant oh that's true I do need we're going to go ahead and close the public hearing thank you and invite the applicant to come up to respond uh thank you board members again Sean Lake here on behalf of the gardener family uh let me address those two issues the the first that was brought up is the valve issue this is a private property issue it's not this is not a public utility this is not a city easement this is a private valve that is used to um switch the irrigation water from going north south to East West for Dita to the South this valve does not serve our property we don't utilize it it is not on our property as you can see on the the aerial photo photography above it is not in the Southeast corner of our property it is actually in the northwest corner of Mr Oak's property and a portion of it in the northeast corner of that lot in Dolce Vita and or El Camino Dolce sorry I'm thinking of gelato um at hian Brown uh so that valve is not on our property there is not an easement on our property for that valve here is our ala and you can see along the south side of our property there is not an easement that runs along the south side of our property to access this now when Dolce Vita develop or I apologize that's a compliment you everybody loves the gelato sorry little for uh Higley and Brown um as everybody can see when that subdivision was developed to the south of it they had this valve and they could have put it in a front yard they could have put it in a rear they put it in a rear yard and then these Property Owners when they develop those homes chose to wall up and restrict access that's not a burden that should be placed upon an adjacent property owner now Mr Gardner and the Garder family over the years have tried to to be gracious and nice and say yeah you can use our property as long as we're farming it and and access that valve as long as we're farming it but the time has come that farming is no longer viable the Citrus as we know in this area has pretty much gone away there's no any no real operators left to do it and the trees a lot of the trees are being removed and and so we've got Alfalfa that we're going to try to grow on it now but in the meantime but access of the valve as long as we're farming it that's fine but at some point the property own are going to need to work within the neighbors within their subdivisions both with El Camino Dolce uh with the property owner at the northwest corner of their subdivision or Mr Oaks at the the northeast corner of the subdivision next door to provide access through their yards to that valve and they can they can say it's walled off now but you can put a gate in a wall to access a valve and so we're willing to work with them and and and maybe work with him on access through lot 14 we're not willing to commit to it now but the problem with that is we have a struggle when they're not willing to go to their own neighbor to try to get access to their valve and they want the city to take this is a taking if you put a condition on it to take from this property owner an easement or an access to access their valve that's on their property for their irrigation that we don't benefit from like I said I don't want to be up mean or upset and we're willing to work with them but I get frustrated when they're not willing to work with their own neighbors to get access to their own valve and so that's that's kind of our position we'll work with them and and if those property owners are willing to and and maybe it's it's the three or four Property Owners around that valve can try to work together to allow access when they need to switch it from north to south east to west we're willing to do that but we don't want to be the only option to get to that valve we want to we want to be one of the possible solutions that's the first uh discussion like I said no good deed goes unb unpunished when Mr Gardner was willing to let him use the Farm Road when he was farming but that doesn't create an easement when you you do it permissively uh the second issue that was raised was about lot size and preserving um 30,000 square ft we did an assessment of all the subdivisions within the city Citrus area it took Sarah quite a few quite a long time there are 78 subdivisions in the Citrus area plan of the 78 50 of those subdivisions have lots less than 30,000 square ft we've put up on here examples of various different subdivisions and outline those in red around this site this site's in yellow but Hermosa Groves estate has 24,000 ft Lots Hermosa grow sou 26 Estates at 32nd which is the newest one when they developed that Golf Course the old executive course at 21,000 sare ft Mandarin Grove at 26 day Springs at 24 arbolita at 24 Valencia Park at 17 and estate Grove unit 2 of about 14 so that is the 30,000 foot is not a hard- fast rule of the seeven let me get this number of the 78 subdivisions that are within the Citrus area plan 50 have lots less than that and so that not what the plan reads um but the city council does evaluate and look at it we think a compelling reason to not do the 35,000 is so that if you take a little bit of out of each lot and create common area retention so that we don't have that retention water flooding out the downstream guy in the subdivision that's a big benefit and that's a big positive plus you get open space and amenities that sometimes you don't get with those just platted uh larger lot developments and so we think the benefits outweigh uh what's going on and that has been utilized in many subdivisions in the Citrus area before so this is not breaking the rules but I think is more consistent with what has been approved in the area so we think this is a good plan this will be custom Lots these will be nice big beautiful homes we still agree to um those four conditions that I read to you at the neighborhood meeting when The Neighbor said they weren't going to object I'm not going to withdraw that uh along our East Side for Rosewood when they came and object because they I thought they nobody was going to eject but we're not we're still going to live by our commitment at the neighborhood meeting uh with those four conditions uh on all sides so we think this is a great project it fits within the Citrus area it fits within the area these are going to be beautiful nice homes It is Well wanted in this area and so we would ask your support and be happy to answer any additional questions all right thank you is there any further questions I got a question for you on the uh West Side there's uh three other valves they're on the other they're on the uh neighboring properties as well is there an easement or anything on that side on the west side on the West Side you've got three valves on the west side we have a drainage easement running down that side and that will be be able to be accessed by that existing drainage eement so you can see that I think it's colored round in that plan so if I might just jump in and ask a supporting question so are you clarifying that excuse me the the secured perimeter if you will of the Gated Community will be essentially at the call that Western yellow limit and that drainage Canal will be open access for Neighbors to come in and access those Weir boxes on that west side or is that drainage CH either be open or gated and and we'll work with the neighbors so that they can access that yes so so what you're saying is really the the only issue is that one in the Southeast Corner that's right on the Southeast corner there is no easement correct and it's actually not on our property and and along the west side it's it's a little it's a different situation any other questions um and like I said on the Southeast on on the north east and Northwest corners of their developments where those valve box I'm not saying no I just don't want the neighbors to come and ask the city to take property from this property owner before they've even gone to try to get their own neighbors to solve the problem this could be easily solved by asking the the the one neighbor in their uh project or Mr Oaks the other neighbor to say hey just cut and put a fence in your in your uh or put a fence in your wall and you know we'll come once a month and open that valve so that all of us south of this property can continue to enjoy irrigation but I struggle when they're not willing to do that they're just wanting the city to impose something on this private property owner because they don't want to go talk to another property owner okay would it be appropriate for us to ask the legal side if that's a taking kind of an issue is that something that that we can ask chair board easements are a matter of private um contractual agreements between private parties and not something that the city would be involved in yeah not a stipulation it's not a stipulation we could add to this the other May question i' ask of legal is if cawcd is the water provider and is there any relationship or correlation between the city and cawcd where something might need to be resolved if you will to relocate the valve to a more publicly accessible area does that make sense what I'm trying to ask it does I don't know the answer to that question um I don't know that that's something that staff would know either the HOA yes be the HOA that would have to talk to them so Val valves do get moved we've seen that but the neighbors who benefit from the valve would have to pay for that so that is definitely an option um rwcd who this is their this is the water that they they serve to this valve on private property owner they just have to work with those Property Owners to all come together and chip in to relocate that valve all come together to pay to put a fence in the in their wall um y thank you anything else oh I think we're good thank you thank you all right so we've actually already closed public comment so we're good there so we could go ahead have board discussion about this we could also entertain a motion if anybody would like to do that the one thing just to remember is we have both item 3A and 4A on that motion correct we got to do the plan as well and chair it's a recommendation to the city council yes any conversation or no no I I'll I'll I'll make a statement um you know I'm I'm very sympathetic to miss Vance um this this exact thing happened in my backyard because we had a 20 acre plus uh subdivision that was that was related to you that um you know is now Apartments so it's um as far as as a a a use that would be compatible I I'm more in favor of this kind of use that has you know these custom kind of homes that would be at least you know something that that would be consistent with what the the neighborhood around you so I'm I'm very very sympathetic to that um I I understand the the issue I'm I'm glad that they're on the west side that that you've taken care of that issue and have a gate to to um to access those those valves yeah the this the southeast valve is a problem um having seen and dealt with rwcd a lot these these valves do get moved so I think that that's probably the the the thing that that at least the neighbors and you ought to talk about is how to get that moved thank you anything from you guys I think um um so the the two major issues number one we've got uh kind of the size of lots um I was going through this and this is just my dumb math but we've got at least what 100,000 square feet of retention at least right a little more than that okay so you know you got a significant amount of retention and I think the idea of the pad and kind of the kind of taking retention All in This is a problem that we have on all of these you know flood irrigated Lots that's a constant issue so if you were to take that in you'd have an average about 5,000 ft that would be added in each lot so that would mean there's only three of those lots that are really under the 30k and they're right under the 30k so I I don't necessarily think that's as much asue I think this is a good solution to a problem that we have a lot with FL irrigated Lots um you've kind of hit a lot on the irrigation side I think it is an issue the the the issue that I have with it is it's a burden that's that should be placed on the new development um and I agree I think that I'm hoping that there can be a lot of conversation and and a lot of kind of rework it sounds like the the you know applicant is willing to work with them but there needs to be a solution comes together and unfortunately as a board we're not in a position to kind of stipulate how that happens um we just that's not it within our our purview um so with that I I would actually move that we approve these and and if everyone is good at that I'm going to go ahead and make a motion to do that all right so I'm going would move that uh as far as the recommendation for City for uh item 3A Z 23- 00417 jardinero um District 1 located south of East mcdal Road and East of North Valvista Road reone from single residence 35 rs35 to single residence 35 with a p planned area development overlay rs35 p8 and this request will allow for the single resident subdivision um this is a staff recommendation is approval conditions and then item 4 a the companion which is pz 24122 Janero preliminary plat Within District 1 located south of East mcdal Road and East of North Al Vista Drive preliminary plat staff recommendation of approval conditions and I would um move that these are approved or recommend that they be approved so moved is there a second chair errors apologies just for the record yeah uh item 3A is for recommendation for recommendation item 4 a is action by the board oh yes so do we have to read them separately no you could uh just was correcting for that yes she's correcting okay is there a second you second oh you already second you second oh all right we'll go ahead and vote and oh we do not have board member Montes and how does that work without board member Montes all right so uh with all those present we all vote Yes and so this motion passes we appreciate everybody coming I know this is a tough one um we app appreciate you being here any else from staff no additionals all right so I a motion to adjourn move second all in favor all right and we are Jour thank you everybody again for being here today