This transcript appears to be a meeting of the Planning Commission. Based on the names provided and the context of the dialogue, here is the attributed transcript. [1:53] **Sara Peer (City Clerk):** johnson emma absent christensen here montgomery here uh approval of the agenda negative motion [1:59] **Steve Nordin:** don't move [2:00] **Matt Montgomery:** second [2:01] **Steve Nordin:** motion second to approve the agenda any further discussion all in favor aye [2:05] **Group:** aye [2:06] **Steve Nordin:** election of commission chair do you have any nominations [2:09] **Matt Montgomery:** i nominate mr ghezmi [2:11] **Unknown Member:** i second [2:13] **Steve Nordin:** any other nominations any further discussion do i abstain [2:49] **Sara Peer:** it's three to one [2:55] **Steve Nordin (Chair):** okay approval of the minutes from last meeting everybody should have a copy of that i'll make a motion to approve i should do approve say a second oh there's a second any further discussion all in favor all right uh public input public input is intended to afford the public an opportunity to address concerns of the planning commission public input will be no longer than 30 minutes in length and each speaker will have no more than three minutes to speak speakers may address topics relevant to the governance of the city [3:41] **Steve Nordin:** speakers must sign up in advance and must provide their name address and topic they intend to address comments must be on topic respectful pertinent to city business and adhere to the applicable data or privacy rules any speaker that violates these rules will be asked to sit down and the speaker refuses to comply they may be removed from the meeting speakers shall not address topics that are the subject of a public hearing all such comments shall be made at the public hearing the planning commission will not generally act on issues raised by the public input but might choose to schedule consideration of the item on the future agenda we have one here [4:26] **Steve Nordin:** don lanning don would you prefer to speak at the public input or for the public hearing i see your public hearing okay so for not okay thank you all right so that's all that there's listed for public input so we'll move on to the public hearing the first public hearing is a rezone and lot split for pid 525 3010. [4:57] **Diane Johnson:** it's currently his own urban reserve and i'm going to turn it over to diane this parcel is being proposed to be rezoned from a ur urban reserve to a b-2 highway business district the lot split will be contingent on final sale a lot split is also being proposed for this parcel at the point that is intersected by 63rd avenue with a portion on the lot east of 63rd avenue and the portion of the lot west of 63rd avenue becoming two separate parcels [Music] okay so i'm going to open the public meeting is there any comments to this rezone and lock split [5:43] **Don Lanning:** we do have a map here too if anyone wants to view it okay okay um my name is dawn lanning and i am i own the parcel directly adjacent to the south of the property that is in question um i don't know can you put up that map or not or do i because i have some things i wanted to show on the map you want to put it right in there oh there you go okay like that is that on or is that not on i don't know how that works there you go oh there you go okay so let's do it this way then here we go okay so and actually there's oh yeah so [6:31] **Don Lanning:** you know um i totally understand the whole idea of splitting this a lot it makes sense to do that that i have no issues with the one thing i would like to suggest or um what makes sense to me anyway is to take that lot so this particular lot zone that is b2 it makes sense to have that as b2 it's in between businesses that are already there avalon's there the parcel right here zone commercial already so that all makes sense no problem this lot here is zoned residential this slots zoned residential this lot is zoned residential [7:17] **Don Lanning:** this slot is my lot and that also is zoned rural residential so it doesn't make a lot of sense to put a business parcel right in the middle of all of these residential lots they're all zoned residential currently this lot here is part of cannon falls township i'm part of cannon falls township and this is part of cannon falls township this one is still cannon falls city of cannon falls but it is taxed as residential non-homesteaded this one this parcel happens to still be taxed as residential non-homestead as is this one i'm actually rural residential and ag [8:04] **Don Lanning:** and then this property here he just bought that property well two years ago in december i bought my property five years ago in december um my property is full of it's 20 acres it's full of pines you know when i bought that property i brought it because it was full of pines and not to have a business right next to my property it will make my property hard to sell if i ever do want to go and sell it because again why does somebody want to pay for 20 acres of pine and pastures to be next to a business lot okay you can spend the money and go find it somewhere else [8:49] **Don Lanning:** so i think if you were to re-zone this particular lot to be a b2 you're going to have negative effects on the property values and the resale like the ability to resell the property as residentials because both of these properties here are residences this guy has put a lot a lot of work into that property he put up new fencing he's done really good work at you know kind of recovering his driveway and keeping the erosion down i've put a new roof on my pro on my house i've put brand new windows in my house in the last five years and i really don't want to see my property values going down because you're going to change this to a b2 like i said [9:36] **Don Lanning:** understandable on this side i knew what i bought when i bought it you know avalon was here i just knew that that was going to be eventually probably businesses but not right next to me that one i have an issue with i don't know if you got any questions [9:54] **Steve Nordin:** uh i i have one is um so you think we should um the property owner that he can't use it for what he has applied for he's asking for a land split um which by the way wasn't on the application the application just asked for rezoning of the property as a whole [10:22] **Don Lanning:** okay i understand that he wanted to rezone it so that he could sell this part you know to be a truck terminal or whatever it is that he's going to do with it i understand that okay but if you do the split there's no reason that he could not sell or use this property as it's already zoned urban reserve keep this urban reserve or make it a residential zoning so that so then again you want to request the landowner to be restricted by what he wants to do because of i don't want my property values going down because he wants to change his use okay so he bought the property knowing what the [11:08] **Don Lanning:** zoning was he bought it knowing what that zoning was i bought my property knowing what my zoning was i bought my property knowing what was around there at that time urban reserve okay and like i said i knew avalon was there i kind of half expected that something would probably end up across the road but not next to me next to me i assumed with a bunch of pines and a hill and this one is like i think it's let's see it's 16.9 acres of pasture mine is 20 acres of pasture i've got animals on my property the first guy up there in the corner he has animals on his property he put in [11:53] **Don Lanning:** some really nice fencing like i said he's done a lot of work on there and it just doesn't make sense to put a business district right between all of those residences that's all i'm saying [12:12] **Steve Nordin:** diane or bill i know neil's not here maybe you guys can speak to this [12:16] **Diane Johnson:** um i will say that urban reserve is kind of a holding zone that's what the city has put on certain parcels where they know that the use is probably going to change but they don't know what it will change to in the future because of the locations also i can't speak to what kind of use this owner will want to have on this particular parcel because [12:40] **Diane Johnson:** he isn't here but i have heard that it's possible that it may not be a business use but that's that's up to him in the future i i can't speak to that because he isn't here [12:54] **Don Lanning:** so that's what i'm saying though is if he if he submitted an application to make a parcel into a b2 district you can give him his application make the new parcel that you're going to make a b2 district and then leave the other parcel that's going to be created rezone that to be whatever it happens to be so he will get his rezone that he's asking for on a parcel [13:26] **Diane Johnson:** that he's trying to sell right now the um issue that we have with this don is that the pid numbers are the same it's not split yet um it won't be split officially until it's recorded with the county goodhue county so right now it kind of comes as one one parcel and he is asking for that parsley be switched to a b2 i don't know that that one on the west side will stay a b2 but like i said i can't guarantee you that because i'm not the homeowner [14:03] **Don Lanning:** so what would that process be i mean if you create after this the property sale goes through you create two parcels it's easy what is the zoning process when you create a new parcel [14:12] **Diane Johnson:** if he wants to change that one from a b2 to something else he could again apply for a rezone and pay the 450 and meet with the commission again [14:22] **Don Lanning:** can adjacent property owners do the same thing [14:24] **Diane Johnson:** not with his property it has to be done by the property owner [14:28] **Steve Nordin:** can the businesses that are potentially buying this really only have development plans on the east side correct [14:41] **Diane Johnson:** so there's no plan right now to develop the west side correct yep i mean is it possible for him to split the lots he could even combine those lots diane [14:59] **Diane Johnson:** that's a possibility you know um if if if he wanted to um combine it with the upper lot and make it you know a little bigger lot and make it a residential or business he has the right to do that too or he has the right to apply for that [15:19] **Don Lanning:** another item of interest when i was looking i did not know that this parcel was split off from here this this parcel here is landlocked there is no road access on this parcel [15:37] **Diane Johnson:** so i don't know if you need to do anything as far as making a requirement that it's the same owner it's the same it is the same owner but if you're creating a new parcel i mean he still owns that parcel so they don't have to have a land they don't have to have that's why he's splitting it so um the people on the east side don't get ownership of it he's he's keeping the parcel on the west side [16:11] **Matt Montgomery:** here here's a real dumb question is it the county the township or the city that will determine i know the the county does the parcel numbers right but it's the city of canon falls that would determine the usage [16:23] **Diane Johnson:** the zoning well the owner could apply for a particular zone diane and then um it would come to you and then it would go to council to be determined that takes it out of the township and the county then the county is only responsible for the lot split defining the new parcel numbers vic right right [16:53] **Diane Johnson:** and it's the city of canada falls then that determines the zoning yep so when you guys approve a process what happens is i send it to don mitchell at the county and then um he does the paperwork be it assigning um pars a new pid and recording the document does that make sense [17:10] **Don Lanning:** yeah and i did but i i keep thinking so he doesn't want it rezoned unless the sale goes through or does he want it rezoned right now so the sale could go through [17:21] **Diane Johnson:** no the rezone is is is contingent on the final sale so if the final sale falls through it would stay as you are this whole thing would stay as a you are and he wouldn't pursue this he would still split he would still split the split is not contingent on the final sale but the rezone is [17:42] **Steve Nordin:** possible to re-zone half and not this half or no [17:46] **Diane Johnson:** it would be if um if the parcel numbers were different but because the parsons number are the same they cannot be zoned differently not not until the split is final [17:57] **Steve Nordin:** the split wouldn't be final until it went to the county right selling on the uh east side and east side but it's not selling on the west side right right [18:07] **Diane Johnson:** so he has to split it ahead of time ahead of the sale anyway right to do the title and all the title work and everything for the sale right correct right yep [18:18] **Steve Nordin:** so you know at the time that the split happens is that i mean could you could you put something in the terms [18:25] **Diane Johnson:** that would be up to the to the owner not not that's not for us to determine [18:31] **Steve Nordin:** yeah but we could say being he has to split the parcel first before the sale correct [18:43] **Matt Montgomery:** yeah i mean obviously he could he could split the parcel without the sale right i mean that's but before the sale can be completed he has to have the the parcel split i i believe that's the terms but i have not seen the terms of the agreement between him and the buyer [19:07] **Steve Nordin:** right so at that particular moment once we now have two parcel numbers we could say it goes to b2 on the east side and stays urban reserve or whatever it is now on the west side because that actually has to happen before the sale anyway [19:22] **Diane Johnson:** yeah well for sale the sale is contingent on this property being zoned to b2 um if it's not zoned to b2 i believe that they won't have a sale and this will be uh [19:35] **Don Lanning:** right but the minute he splits the parcel numbers we can zone it to be or recommend the city council zone it to be too i mean he's got to split those anyway or else he's going to be landlocked on this big area um he owns he owns all those properties on the west side there is no road going up there no i know but he owns all those properties if he would ever sell this property this piece here the way it is now and the way he's proposing that be divided there is no road going back here [20:10] **Steve Nordin:** right he would have a real zone is not a sail what she's saying is he still owns that so he still has access to it so that's not an issue and that would be an issue for another day that would be his his issue that he would have to fix at some point but that's not her issue right now [20:25] **Matt Montgomery:** don so am i reading the tea leaves right here that this is the sale is dependent on this so if we said we're going to table it and we're going to ask the owner to split the parcel numbers first would that kill the sale or would the buyer then say well we can table this for a few more months and start the process all over again [20:53] **Diane Johnson:** from what i've heard um i it very well could yeah [20:57] **Matt Montgomery:** okay but what don is asking for could still possibly happen it would just be in a different order it would be a separate parcel number and like you said the as long as he's owning those sides but then that would be the order's discretion if we just voted for the split and not for the re-zone and um he lost the sale um we we we just wouldn't re-zone it and the property would stay as it is and we wouldn't get what a business what about his application was for a rezone [21:29] **Diane Johnson:** he asked for that later on he he had a formal meeting with the city administrator and i [21:35] **Matt Montgomery:** okay but the application just said for a reason but the memo reflected the change [21:40] **Don Lanning:** okay so if you gave him you know if you granted the rezone okay then he makes the sale and there's a land split that happens as part of the sale right then can you revisit zoning the new parcel does the does the zoning have to be the same for the new parcel [21:55] **Diane Johnson:** that would be that would be up to the homeowner i mean as a city we don't go in and we don't tell people that they have to change a zone [22:04] **Don Lanning:** what i'm saying though is if you if i came in and said i wanted to split my property in half right yep and i split my property in half and what you're saying is that automatically if i do a land split both parcels now are zoned the same is that what you're saying right now [22:18] **Diane Johnson:** is that like the standard change unless it's applied for yeah okay yeah even if the if a new parcel is being created right okay right okay yep [22:36] **Don Lanning:** all right well it okay i mean you know to me it just makes sense to for that parcel on that side of the road to not be a business because it's surrounded by residential properties but um okay thank you thanks don thank you [23:05] **Steve Nordin:** okay one more question yeah does it cost people money to ask the city to rezone [23:08] **Diane Johnson:** it does 450 dollars okay [23:09] **Steve Nordin:** is there anybody else that wants to speak as far as the public hearing goes second call anyhow anybody else wanting to speak to this rezoning a lot split third and final time anyone would like to respond well i'll close the public hearing committee [23:56] **Unknown Member:** i'm okay with uh splitting of the property but i'm agreeing with dawn about leaving that separate but i can't make that decision from what's sitting in front of me i think that's fine to have that business over there but then this becomes business and at any given time a business can be put in there which could possibly devalue her property but i'm okay with splitting and this is business on this side in this rebates residential i was out there driving around and i was one of them one of my thoughts is what's going to happen to these this property over here or does it all become business at some point over in here [24:28] **Steve Nordin:** well this is township dawn and yep you know what but if we just zone this the same um should we be saving this for the discussion and having the other public hearing first yes sir thank you very much [24:37] **Steve Nordin:** okay let's move on to the next public hearing conditional use permit for 410 hickory drive and it's to add a drive-through addition to subway restaurant diane [24:50] **Diane Johnson:** this would basically be an added value for their customers we do have drawings enclosed and we have tom and tom here to discuss the project with us and if anyone has any further questions after that we also have bill angerman here who would give us technical support [25:11] **Steve Nordin:** uh should i open the public hearing or after oh yep okay i open the public hearing for the conditional use permit application for 410 hickory drive hi [25:23] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** well i'm tom stevenholler i'm from uh hastings 801 east 2nd street and i just want to say we would like to add on to this building and have a drive through down there and we're a freeway store and i think it would be an added feature for the town also it's a kind of a slick process with subways it's just kind of a punch pad and they and it's really really easy they don't have to talk into it or anything like that so i just wanted to bring it up and see what you guys think and that's about it so we're going to add on to the back end of the store but i think it's like a 12 by 12 and they'll come in on the west be the east side and around to the back side and pick up and then go out so we'll have signage out then direct traffic and that kind of stuff too so that's what i got [26:15] **Steve Nordin:** i got a question for you will the inside be being redesigned too or just [26:18] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** yes it will be fully remodeled at that time also so that door that faces the west for pedestrians to come in will that be leaving [26:27] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** no i believe that's why we didn't put it over there it was because of the too many seats i believe that we have to have two exits okay in the lobby and then um so there will still be seating inside as well as a a convenient drive-through maybe the same amount of seating as we got now lobby would be the same [26:52] **Steve Nordin:** and some car a little bit steve addressed with me early on but i was curious about the parking in the back of the building back there is there any provisions or anything for pedestrians that park in the very back that walk in front of the cars through the drive-through to get into the building because they're going to be out it doesn't walk away [27:14] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** we'll probably put in like yeah we're going to have to re-stripe everything okay so we'll probably have a pedestrian type type crossway there so that they can get through and you know not a lot of people park back there yeah but you know a lot of the employees and stuff will be back there [27:32] **Matt Montgomery:** okay is this going to affect or change uh best buy liquor in any way with the remodel [27:38] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** no their their part of the building will stay the same correct [27:41] **Diane Johnson:** okay yep [27:42] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** we're probably going to repaint the backside and get it all cleaned up back there and put some gates around the garbage that kind of stuff the garbage containers and just clean that back end up this building and so it would be a nice little addition back there and i see the the actual owner signed the application so yep he's on board yes yep pete's on board and he's he's more than happy so adding on and helping his business out you know and it'll bring some traffic in for him also yeah a lot of freeway people don't want to stop very long so it'll be nice for him to come through and with the punch pad they can just throw in their phone number and it brings up their orders i just hit it and we just make it and they're on the road again so it's a pretty slick deal but any other questions [28:44] **Steve Nordin:** no good thanks bob [28:45] **Tom Stevanhoffer:** all right you bet thanks [28:48] **Steve Nordin:** uh anybody else want to speak to the on the public hearing for the subway drive-through sure other than don [Laughter] [28:57] **Don Lanning:** i think it would be a great ad i'm a big subway fan i think it would be a great ad i wonder if we can just get a drive through for the liquor store [29:06] **Steve Nordin:** anybody else wishing to speak to the public hearing third and last call for the subway drive through [Music] i will close the public hearing [29:13] **Neil (Commission Member):** chairman guess me can you hear me [29:16] **Steve Nordin:** yes we can [29:17] **Neil (Commission Member):** yes neil say i uh i got some input on the last public hearing but i wasn't able to get in so when you get in your uh into your conversation i'd like to speak a little bit [29:34] **Steve Nordin:** it start it starts right now [29:36] **Neil (Commission Member):** okay you know i think uh i think one of the things that people are concerned about is the um having a b2 on across the west side of the highway there you guys uh you guys can make a motion to say you know what i think uh it's perfect legitimate to have a business on the on the east side of that road but we're going to keep it a you are and make a recommendation to city council on for the west side of the road so and i don't think to be honest with you i don't think the property owner would mind that at all because i think he's probably trying to figure out what he wants to do with it anyhow so i think if you wanted to make a motion saying yep we're going to rezone this to a b business district and do the lot split on the uh on the east side but we're going to leave it you are on the west side i think you would be fine with that [30:47] **Diane Johnson:** well you can't rezone it with a new pid number we can we can bring that up with don mitchell yeah we can we can delay it long enough to get that done okay we'll talk nice to the coney um okay so how do we word that motion carefully split split the parcel and with the east side being b2 and the west side becoming you are after the split remaining you are after the split when we get to that [31:30] **Steve Nordin:** when we get to that okay we're at it right now better right now does that make sense steve yep we're on item 8 so we're at the rezone we can have discussion and then make a so motion tonight we can say b2 rezone split leaving the west side uh we'll call that dawn's edition no you are not that kind of money um you are even though we i think rachel would probably work with us up there i mean because we we approved it yeah yeah yeah let's do that and i have time before the next council meeting just to give them a heads up what i'm doing i'll do that [32:37] **Matt Montgomery:** i didn't think we did that till because we were just into the subway thing [32:41] **Steve Nordin:** no we closed that public run so now we're coming back again yep yep okay yeah i make a motion to say exactly what neil said and what diane uh verbalized there i'll make a second [32:56] **Steve Nordin:** motion second to do what john said [Laughter] any further discussion all in favor aye [33:14] **Group:** aye [33:15] **Steve Nordin:** opposed okay b conditional use permit for 410 hickory drive any comments on that i myself think it's pretty straightforward and it's always good to see somebody that wants to make an improvement and attract more business or or be optimistic in that direction anyway [33:39] **Matt Montgomery:** yeah i agree can the chair make motions or does he have to he's still a voting member but he doesn't make motions or do you know parliamentary [33:48] **Steve Nordin:** but i want to make the motion you go for it though yeah i want to move that way approved conditional use permit for 410 hickory drive despite the fact that they didn't bring us cookies [34:04] **Matt Montgomery:** i'll make a second [34:05] **Steve Nordin:** ocean second to approve the uh [Music] subway drive-through any further discussion all in favor aye [34:16] **Group:** aye [34:17] **Steve Nordin:** opposed kerry okay see it's a resolution for an administrative permit for 301 5th street south i talked to diane about this and it's pretty much a paperwork shuffle it's really not anything more than that if you want to elaborate a little bit okay um what is in question is ownership of units five and six which are basically a garage and a carport the ownership right now [Music] is on apartment four and they're asking that it be changed to apartment one uh mr iverson do you want us sorry [34:56] **Mr. Iverson:** yeah the five and six are on unit number three and i want to move it to unit number one because i'm selling unit number three without the garage okay sure okay so it'll become part of unit number one even it'll become part of year number one correct yeah last union i'm living in right now [35:38] **Matt Montgomery:** i'll make a motion to approve resolution 202203 uh the permit for 301 5th street [35:46] **Unknown Member:** i'll second that [35:48] **Steve Nordin:** motion second to approved administrative permit for 301 5th street resolution 202-03 any further discussion all in favor aye [35:58] **Group:** aye [35:59] **Steve Nordin:** opposed carrie uh d resolution 2022-04 final plan approval for keller bartman apartment complex at 415 hickory drive diane [36:23] **Diane Johnson:** so zoning and engineered reviewed the keller barton final plan that included the minnesota pollution control agency swppp the zoning response letter dated january 5th to 2022 g-cubed cannonball apartment complex site plan resubmittal per december 8th 2021 review comments for bill angerman dated january 3rd 2022 it also includes bill angerman's email response dated january 6 2022 and january 6 2022 g cube plan revisions per review of cannonball apartments dated january 5th which was the zoning letter and via the email dated january 6 2022 which came from mr angerman enclosed also is updated cannonball apartment complex site plan the updated cannonball apartment complex grading plan and the cannonball apartment landscape plan [37:34] **Diane Johnson:** okay we are still waiting for the access agreement with mcdonald's that's the only piece that we are still missing [37:44] **Steve Nordin:** the what no what'd you say [37:46] **Diane Johnson:** uh access agreement with mcdonald's [37:53] **Steve Nordin:** does does that access agreement include who is responsible for maintaining that piece of the road that you have to go from county 24 to get to mcdonald's [38:05] **Bill Angerman:** it may but from the city's perspective that would not be a requirement that would be up for the two property owners to work that out so we we just from the city perspective we just care that mcdonald's has a legal way to enter their property through this property [38:30] **Steve Nordin:** and that's not in question correct [38:35] **Diane Johnson:** i'm sorry steve access to the property that's not in question [38:40] **Steve Nordin:** no [38:41] **Diane Johnson:** so they just have to provide that so the recommendation would be to approve it contingent upon this middle of that [38:54] **Matt Montgomery:** right so so hickory dive is a city street but it's actually getting coming across this property so to get to the mcdonald's property yep are they going to access mcdonald from hickory drive or from county 24 [39:13] **Bill Angerman:** well probably both would be the mcdonald's customers are going to drive either way [39:20] **Matt Montgomery:** so are we allowed to make little kind of dinky suggestions just on the on the plan for the the tree and the lilacs it seems to me with the amount of disease we now get with trees and things that maybe they could use a couple more varieties [39:41] **Bill Angerman:** i'll comment on it so so so typically we would review this do they meet the ordinance though the owners very well may take that under advisement and and decide to do something different but from a staff perspective we would just see if it met the ordinance [Applause] [40:14] **Matt Montgomery:** was this open to any public discussion [40:17] **Steve Nordin:** no nope okay this is your stuff just us so bill we've got the the email that you had sent and all those issues you think have been uh there's a solution and we've reached a good point [40:34] **Bill Angerman:** yep so we've we've worked through all the items with their engineering team correct and they've all been resolved wonderful except for the mcdonald's one that we mentioned [40:48] **Steve Nordin:** yeah great well i appreciate the time that people have put into this project but i still can't help but think that somehow we may have sidestepped some things we may have not followed this to the letter of the law and i still honestly think it's in a bad spot um that's what i really believe that i just feel this is in a that this building is being put in a in the wrong spot personally um but i get we've gone this far and it's probably going to get through but i just want to get my thoughts out there on that [41:35] **Matt Montgomery:** i'll make a motion to approve the final plan approval for keller bartmann apartment complex 2022-04 [41:43] **Unknown Member:** i'll second [41:45] **Steve Nordin:** it's been moved in second to approve the final plat approval for keller bartman um discussion [41:53] **Steve Nordin:** what i will say probably directly to john is when casey's applied to expand their station up there everybody thought that was nuts that was never going to work and this and that and i think it ended up to be a pretty darn good fit up there and i think um sticking my neck out here and although i agree probably is better places but i think we got to move forward and i think we should get this thing going in the works and a few years down the road i think everybody's going to think it looks okay it fits that's my my personal opinion [42:47] **Matt Montgomery:** and i guess i'm gonna i just i just want to see the the residential growth in the city and if if we gotta you know receive from plaque receive some flack for it but yet welcome a potential of 80 new families into town plus all the construction work and they're all going to help pay for that subway drive through i think i think it'll work and that's that's how i'm going to lean so is there any further discussion [43:16] **Unknown Member:** i couldn't agree with steve moore i think that this whole project has brought up the uh the old cliche that don't let perfect be the enemy of good i think that the cannonball sat there for long enough and i think any business owner that complains about this they had more than enough time to step up and do something with that land and they didn't and we have a developer that came to town they've had proven success in red wing there's a lot of positive energy going on right now in zimbroda and i don't think that this should be any different so i hope that uh as steve said in the community five ten years from now we look back and say uh it's changed that part of the neighborhood and it's brought more people to town um so i i understand it's not ideal very few things are but it's uh it's a step in the right direction i think it's a great project [44:20] **Steve Nordin:** anybody else uh roll call here's my list [44:25] **Sara Peer:** yes me [44:26] **Steve Nordin:** i [44:27] **Sara Peer:** johnson [44:28] **Diane Johnson:** hi [44:29] **Sara Peer:** christensen [44:30] **Unknown Member:** no [44:31] **Sara Peer:** montgomery [44:32] **Matt Montgomery:** hi [44:33] **Sara Peer:** three muslim pass with three to one [44:53] **Steve Nordin:** uh discussion offense code permit violation everybody go through that you can pack it in your package you have examples of a non-compliance issue basically we want to know is how do we handle an issue like this moving into the future we're looking for response measures we're looking for guidance from the planning commission [45:27] **Matt Montgomery:** if i interpreted this correctly we have a resident who was served three times with the notice that they did not apply for an application so they put the fence up without doing it legally by city standards correct and now they've been given a fee and it says that we either do double the amount of the fee or 200 whichever is greater that's the step that we're at um you are correct matt there is an attachment um in our actual permit fee schedule that does actually address that it does say to be exact and investigate base an investigation fee should be collected that is double the permit view of 200 or the permit fee whichever is greater do we allow this resident a grace period to try to correct their fencing or is it we're too far past that with them being served three times [46:12] **Diane Johnson:** um i tried to rationalize with this resident and they told me to lawyer up because they're not going to fix it [46:21] **Matt Montgomery:** okay uh i have a feeling that this 200 if they said if they said to us to lawyer up that they're not taking this seriously what's the what's this will be our step but what's the process after that there's examples in the packet as far as how we would notify these people i would assume that we would probably get a hold of sarah schwartz off and have her assist um so to answer your question matt i'm not sure this is new territory for me i guess i'm wondering because this this makes me think of other things where we have to come up with punishment or penalty if there's some wrongdoing here and this seems like kind of uncharted territory where if the 200 isn't paid and they say lawyer up i mean what kind of court is going to see somebody for 200 bucks right right [47:28] **Neil (Commission Member):** i think uh can you hear me [47:31] **Steve Nordin:** yep we got you neil [47:33] **Neil (Commission Member):** yeah i think a recommendation from the board would be to turn this over to the city attorney [47:38] **Matt Montgomery:** okay fair enough [47:40] **Steve Nordin:** another question so the fence besides the fact that they didn't get a permit it's an illegal fence it doesn't [47:47] **Diane Johnson:** it's taller than it it doesn't comply yeah you are correct yep [47:51] **Matt Montgomery:** okay so fences can be four feet in the in the front diane and six feet in the rear um this one is eight feet in the front so it's almost double what it should be [48:10] **Steve Nordin:** okay i mean ultimately for the sake of the neighbors and and the fact that this is what we've all agreed to as a community shouldn't they be required to take it down that's why i'm asking for guidance i mean i i mean i keep thinking if if i intentionally build something i know is wrong and it irritates my neighbors and they complain then i should be forced to take it down because i i did something that was wrong right bring it into compliance yeah and this was based on a complaint in the neighborhood [48:47] **Diane Johnson:** it was based on a complaint and be honest with you in 15 years that i've been here i've been doing the permits and i've never encountered this before i understand this started back in august yeah we've been trying to get it rectified for a while i think this becomes a legal matter uh do we need action or just a suggestion the suggestion you know and if something else comes up like this in the future is this some do we want to give send out three letters like we did before and then turn it over to the city attorney for we'll have to yeah [49:28] **Matt Montgomery:** well for now we'll just make the suggestion that we let our attorney get involved okay yes perfect sound good to the rest of the board and it is so it's not we're not just saying pay the fines we're saying get it taken care of fix it fix it okay plus it was built without a permit to begin right yeah well right there's yeah those are there for those are obviously there for a reason right [49:50] **Steve Nordin:** okay yeah is it is it two foot back for the property line even right that's a good question that's a wood if it's not a wood right but this is what i believe it's what it has to be said this is the wood two feet off the property line john's right yep so the wood has to be two feet if this was plastic or whatever metal then it it can be right on the property a little bit yep but then you better have your land surveyed because if it isn't yeah but the thing would be to have it surveyed yeah okay [50:23] **Steve Nordin:** okay and then the final item is discussion of possible ordinance change to add commercial kitchens as either permitted or conditional use in one of the city zones [50:33] **Diane Johnson:** this is one that neil just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought we have a business in town that has grown its current location they've inquired about possible additional commercial kitchen space to date we don't have allowances in our code for a commercial kitchen and we'd just like input from the planning commission if this is something you would like us to look into with sarah um possibly creating an ordinance allowance in one of the zones for a business of this type [51:08] **Steve Nordin:** so if it's a conditional use it has to become come before us yeah and if it's permitted it does not happen exactly exactly [51:17] **Matt Montgomery:** okay and um would the permit just be on site or on their property just to make a commercial kitchen for what they need [51:24] **Diane Johnson:** right right or or another property because i think that this person is actually looking for another location because there is no room on their present lot so they may go out of town to the industrial park or another part of town where they could build a commercial kitchen [51:48] **Matt Montgomery:** they actually build it where they could build a commercial right right [51:53] **Diane Johnson:** okay and then it would be up to you in council if you would want to be a permitted use in let's say the i1 or the i2 or the b2 or if you would want to put conditions on it [52:05] **Steve Nordin:** that's my initial thought is just to have a permit have it permitted instead of having to come back to the council [52:12] **Matt Montgomery:** right that would be my initial thought restaurants are permitted and it would be real similar to a restaurant yep [52:17] **Steve Nordin:** and yeah because that could be a long time from the time it comes through us to the city council absolutely yeah you would have to pass something to okay it to be a permitted thing though there would have to be an ordinance created yeah and then it would come to you and to city council for a read just like the b2 when we just had the b2 created in the truck terminals and the b2 but this doesn't need action tonight this just [52:49] **Diane Johnson:** no just kind of wanted to see how you guys felt about it [52:52] **Matt Montgomery:** i think the idea of permitting it probably makes the most sense yeah i mean we're not we're probably not going to see a ton of commercial kitchens other than like you said restaurants but so conditional use permits but it would the lag time and if we permit it it's just uh grease the wheel yeah yep yep thank you do you like have a recommendation on where we would permit them or you know there again diana um it it would depend on the owner the business owner you know i'm sure that they're looking at um financial probably availability easy access they probably have a lot of different things that they're looking at so when that business owner came forward we would i don't have a business plan yet so [53:35] **Steve Nordin:** any other comments from the committee on anything laura do you have anything you want to say any you guys over there i get a motion to adjourn [53:48] **Matt Montgomery:** so moved [53:49] **Unknown Member:** second [53:50] **Steve Nordin:** motion second to adjourn further discussion all in favor aye motion carries