Here is the townhall transcript with speaker names added based on context. [0:04] **Chair:** all right let's call the order September 12 20. we'll call the order September 12th planning commissioning meeting uh it's 6 30 I think 6 32. so our first order is Pledge of Allegiance [0:26] **All:** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [0:43] **Chair:** okay our first order of agendas or is approval of the agenda can I get a motion to approve the agenda [0:51] **Commissioner 1:** I move to approve the agenda from last Planning Commission meeting in August [0:56] **Commissioner 2:** second [0:58] **Kim (City Staff):** Mr chair appointing Commissioners this is approving this agenda [1:03] **Chair:** yeah oh the agenda [1:05] **Commissioner 1:** I thought the minute I'm sorry yes approval of the agenda today I'm in my motion [1:11] **Chair:** okay yeah can I get a second [1:13] **Commissioner 2:** second [1:14] **Chair:** all four [1:15] **Commissioners:** all right all right [1:17] **Commissioner 3:** all against and then we're recording as an abstain I'm staying from the vote [1:33] **Chair:** so we'll move on to the next item this is approval of the minutes from August 8th 2023. [1:40] **Commissioner 1:** move to approve the minutes from August 8th 2023. [1:46] **Commissioner 2:** second [1:48] **Chair:** all four [1:50] **Commissioners:** I I [1:52] **Commissioner 3:** I abstain [1:54] **Chair:** okay all right we have uh new business and we have the revised application for one one four nine zero Julian Avenue North and do we have Jennifer? yes all right [2:21] **Jennifer (City Planner):** I see head shaking that's perfect uh first of all thank you for letting me be here virtually this evening I actually had a commitment prior to the meeting so this works out perfectly uh so for you this evening uh is the request to amend the conditional use permit for 11490 Julianne Avenue North uh we took a look at this at our last meeting so uh I don't have a very long presentation for you this evening but I am going to go ahead and share my screen so we can walk through uh the materials that were presented to us between the last meeting and today so with that it looks like everybody should be able to see it [3:04] **Chair:** I can see your screen [3:06] **Jennifer (City Planner):** so we're going to go ahead and jump in so uh just as a reminder uh if my screen will change here we go uh just as a reminder a brief summary of the request so the applicant this evening is Jamie Benner uh the property is zoned in uh a one it's guided World residential agricultural it's about 37 Acres just shy of that we are requesting an amendment to the conditional use permit we talked about this last time most of the operations are proposed to remain the same uh as what they are currently operating under what we're really primarily taking a look at this evening uh is the request to add the accessory building that we discussed at length at our last meeting so we did hold our public Hearing in September it was September 12 2023 we did have a member of the public that did provide some public testimony uh in support of the request and this evening we are actually looking at some revised materials from the applicant so if you'll recall from our September meeting the Planning Commission asks for some additional information and some clarification with respect to the application those are the materials that have been submitted to us this evening the Planning Commission requested materials uh really for consistency sake to be updated so it was really The Narrative and then also the floor plans as part of the architectural planning sets so what we did receive back uh was a revised narrative revised floor plan that went with our architectural plan uh there was a landscape plan and a site plan that was presented to you and then also the applicant did actually provide their proposed revisions to the conditional use permit that was issued in the 1990s uh we don't typically actually as a commission take a look at that so I provided it as reference because it was submitted by the applicant but we don't actually do that part of the process here this evening and then there also was a grading permit once again typically the commission doesn't look at grading permits however this material was was submitted so I wanted to make sure that the package was complete so as described in the narrative and as we discussed at the last meeting the primary purpose of the amendment actually relates to the accessory building it's approximately 720 square feet the design of it is the same it has not changed it's a A-Frame construction uh what has changed is in the floor plan the notations were updated to reflect uh the testimony that was provided by the applicant during our August meeting uh and and really a lower intensity use I think than what was originally understood based on the first narrative so this information was updated it does have the private office there's a private I would call it a semi-public restroom from the standpoint of the intent of that bathroom is actually for their clients also but it is not necessarily for what's happening out at uh the horse you know in the riding arena Etc it's really about that internal space and once again the proposed location is near the principal structure the notation in the floor plan also does call out the one-on-one sort of you know private training Conference Room yoga studio area that was described by the applicant in their testimony uh in August so in addition uh the application does still contain the information regarding uh the update to the existing Farmhouse the Edition area we talked about this at the last meeting in terms of that's really not subject to the conditional use permit that's something that would require a separate building permit is the principal structure so it's really not addressed within the conditional use permit uh nor would it be tonight really but it remains shown on the drawings for reference the hydrotherapy facility or the pool that is also shown on the landscape plan and the site plan we'll take a look at that in just a moment uh and then also the clean energy improvements once again those improvements aren't really identified they're still described most of those things are likely perfectly acceptable and just would need to obtain the proper permitting at the time that those improvements are proposed so for example the solar panels would be subject to our ordinance likely requires just a building permit depending on where they would be located so Atlanta uh was provided this was extremely helpful I think to staff in terms of how the site would lay out or what they're contemplating you can see by the rectangle uh just south of the sort of half moon or circular area uh the bridal path that that is where the hydrotherapy pool would be proposed as indicated in the narrative this is just conceptual uh but staff would note that if in the future that it were in this location and generally in this approximate size orientation Etc that provided that it complex or is consistent with us no separate Amendment to the permit would be necessary but if it does change substantially there might be a need for an amendment to the permit you can also see in this area that they're the extension to the house area is identified on the plan as well which is on this case plan North uh on your on your page and then you can also see where the proposed accessory building is located which is on this particular orientation Northwest I'm the principal structure so from that perspective this layout helped enormously to understand what the full build out plan is uh or contemplated for the for the site so the architectural plans the A-frame did not change that is consistent uh what did change is actually the notations on the floor plans uh now match up with what is provided in the narrative so the narrative was also updated to reflect the testimony that was provided during the August meeting and then also the floor plan now is consistent and labeled consistently click through that uh so once again the existing operations would remain in would remain no adjustments to the the conditions that are stated within the existing Idlewood conditional use permit would change except for those that are expressly related to this subject use or proposal uh obviously the changes primarily relate to the new accessory building and those are described in their narrative which are now consistent with the floor plan uh it does now consistently state that it's a private office private restroom for use by the office again I'd kind of classify that as semi-public uh and then also a small conference yoga or a teacher teaching area so um there is now consistency between the plan set and the narrative that was submitted uh for your packets this evening uh there is a reference in the narrative uh to it being uh well it was a little bit muddled in terms of whether or not they wanted to use it for uh dwelling I heard from the applicant that they do not it was just a statement that was put in the narrative but because of that and based on our conversation at the last meeting uh staff recommend that we do include a condition within the cup that states that this is not for living purposes it is for the purposes that are described in the narrative which are the private office uh the one-on-one Space storage Etc so from that perspective uh I I think it's important and prudent probably to document that as part of the conditional use permit process or amendment process uh some of the other items again that we address at the last meeting were noted again uh which really are just subject to further permitting uh we require a permit when it comes to our roof uh solar panels for example uh building permit would have to be obtained at the time that those are proposed uh those things remain valid if they come back and there's something that requires separate permitting then they would be subject to that but without full plans we can't really uh presuppose exactly what they're going to do or hypothesize so from that perspective most of the things that are described in the narrative would be acceptable would just simply be things that are permitted and had to follow the proper procedures uh in the future when those plans are known so there's basically two options for you this evening in terms of action the first one is to recommend uh denial with findings uh you would need to determine what those findings are this evening or number two recommend uh approval with conditions uh there are a list of conditions that are drafted for your review this evening uh the majority of them are based on uh both conversation uh from the Planning Commission at the last meeting and then also based on the revised plans or submission that was provided in your packets this evening so uh with that it's a very brief presentation this evening I'll turn it back over to you Mr chair uh and uh if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them [12:45] **Chair:** okay thank you so I think it's back to us to discuss so many thoughts [12:52] **Commissioner 1:** um well my thoughts are just that it I think they've the applicant has done some good work clarifying and some of our concerns we had at least from some of my concerns um and I'm I'm still have a question um for all of us for Jennifer if we propose to recommend this to the council is that for is the language in the first bullet point under the recommended conditions do you think is that strong enough to prevent this from becoming used as a dwelling unit in the future does it need to expressly say not use as a dwelling unit that's the bullet point that says the construction of the new approximately 720 square foot accessory building is permitted the use of the building must be for these things do we need to add in there and not to be used as a dwelling unit so it's expressly that's one of her conditions number c in their recommendation there thank you for finding out [13:46] **Jennifer (City Planner):** thank you I was like I believe I wrote it it is conditioned see it stays the accessory building may not be used as a dwelling unit [13:56] **Commissioner 1:** okay I thought I had read it online but when I was reading through these bullet points I didn't see it so where where was that [14:15] **Jennifer (City Planner):** page 18 oh the PDF I didn't get far enough in page four of her report there's conditions a through l [14:42] **Commissioner 1:** yep I did read it sorry I was in the wrong place I was looking too far there we go it wasn't far enough into the report I knew I'd read it online and when I got here and looked at the actual report in print I didn't see it so um I don't know what everyone else thinks but that was my main issue and the only other question I have for Jennifer is the the things that were just kind of they don't have given us plans for like building the house larger or the hydrotherapy um you're saying here that you know these aren't approved they are generally acceptable now that if they come forward with a building permit for those things they generally wouldn't need to amend the cup what happens if our ordinances change in let's say 10 years and they come forward to apply for these things will they be able to look back to this document and say that this document allows them to do that [15:52] **Jennifer (City Planner):** uh Mr members of the commission know uh they're basically going to be subject to the permitting that's in place at the time that they make their application so if they make an application for a building permit for example uh and a building permit reveals that based on ordinances that are in place at that time that there's a separate permit that's required whether it's a conditional use permit Amendment or a certificate of compliance or whatever it might be they'll be subject to that because this basically is saying you submitted these things under our current ordinances they look generally acceptable but you're going to be subject to whatever permitting is in place at the time so if we amend something that would then require it to have a conditional use permit they would be required to amend [16:38] **Commissioner 1:** thank you [16:40] **Commissioner 2:** yeah my comfort is I have comfort with the conditions listed that's where my head's at yeah it matches the narrative matches and plans and we we question and answered is that not a dwelling unit this successful building so I I'm comfortable with the conditions and moving ahead with the recommendation to council [17:02] **Chair:** all right can I get a I'm gonna make out a moment for it [17:03] **Commissioner 2:** I'll make a motion to where did she put it here it is approval of the amended cop subject to conditions a through L and the planning planners report [17:21] **Commissioner 1:** I second the motion [17:24] **Chair:** all four [17:25] **Commissioners:** hi hi [17:27] **Commissioner 3:** I'll post I abstain [17:34] **Chair:** okay it's all noted so we move on to our next order of business which I believe is outdoors [17:41] **Kim (City Staff):** I want to note that this item will be on the uh October city council meeting agenda [17:48] **Chair:** okay okay thank you all right we have old business draft ordinance of outdoor storage if I get on the right page I'm trying to find all my pages too so understand so Jennifer is there a recap I saw Corrections and what was sent out and some adjustments [18:32] **Jennifer (City Planner):** right so thank you Mr chair members of the commission so uh based on our conversation that we had at the last meeting uh I did go ahead and prepare another a second round of of the draft ordinance I'm actually going to go ahead and just share my screen uh I didn't actually prepare a presentation for this one I just think it's easier if we take a look at uh the ordinance itself and walk through a couple of the changes the changes obviously as we discussed this at the last meeting uh there was actually um I think there was quite a bit of agreement but there was also a how are we going to accomplish this and a little bit of discussion that went back and forth so this was sort of my next stab at how we might address some of these uh topics I'm going to go ahead and I'm gonna try to zoom this in a little bit just because I can tell from I went the opposite way that's not the way we want to go let me see all right that might be a little bit better uh so the first thing that I did is I actually took a took another uh set of edits to the definitions uh because if you recall from my last meeting there is a little bit of conversation between what does personal outdoor storage mean versus commercial outdoor storage uh and the more I dug into it it turns out that actually is a very complicated question uh and so the the way I went about it based on our conversation was actually to say that personal outdoor storage is if you're storing your own personal products or you know you know Vehicles materials equipment Etc on the on the site if you're storing somebody else's stuff that's not yours uh that that trips it into the commercial realm and and obviously as we go through the rest of the ordinance that doesn't necessarily mean they need any kind of permit it's just trying to make a a distinction between those things there was some discussion about well if there's money that transacts does that is that what trip it into commercial um and it really got complicated so I went for this next round for feedback I went with uh if you're storing somebody else's stuff it's not personal essentially is kind of the dividing line that I put in so then on the second page there was some general Comfort it seemed with the table of uses I left that as is for now uh in terms of the discussion at the moment we've got uh just as a reminder we've got outdoor storage when it's a principal use it is not permitted in any of the districts uh unless it is in the general business district so this idea is obviously that if you're in one of our GB Parcels that outdoor storage is a primary use or a principle use would be accepted but it's really not accepted anywhere else the question would be whether we want that as a conditional use or whether we want it as an interim use permit I I think that there's Merit to both ways obviously part of the benefit of potentially exploring an interim use permit is that you truly can tie it to the user as opposed to the property so it wouldn't go on into perpetuity it would really align with a specific uh user on their operations so something to consider but obviously I think that might be worth considering at least going the interim use permit uh angle so likewise with outdoor storage commercial once again remember this is if you're taking somebody else's stuff I left the money part out of it but if if it's not just your stuff but you're taking someone else's stuff and storing it on your property uh that it would actually require an interim use permit based on our conversation the last time there was some discussion about um well you know if I have five friends and I take their stuff and put it on my property is that okay and there was sort of uh well maybe if you can't see it uh maybe if it's not too much sort of so we kind of went back and forth a little bit the thought is if you have to get an interim use permit then there would be a way of actually saying well sure you can store you know five of your friends things but it has to be buffered it has to be screened there's an interim use permit once again it's tied to the user as opposed to the use or to the property so it doesn't last into perpetuity as really based on a specific user so uh then outdoor storage personal as an accessory use to a permitted principle use so think about it as it's a single family residence using the property for real residential uses uh we have the exceptions which we'll talk about in just a moment anything beyond those exceptions they would require a certificate of compliance once again the personal is that it's your stuff you're not taking it for five of your buddies it's your stuff um I realize I'm being very simplistic in the way I'm talking about it but trying to make it as easy as possible because it's complicated uh as we learned at our last discussion so then some adjustments to the language related to the performance standards themselves uh so obviously there's some general statements that would apply to all of it whether it's personal or commercial uh one of the things that we talked about last time was that I we're not going to require necessarily the area to be um on an improved surface for example so I took that language out and I did add it back in when it relates specifically to a commercial use that doesn't meet the exception but it's not a general standard so if it's personal use that's not a requirement and then we get into some of the buffering and screening stuff later on as well so that's that's removed so there's basically these kind of upfront requirements that apply to all outdoor storage except for those exceptions so uh we talked a little bit about adding in an exception for agricultural uses so I added that into uh into the language to say that if it's an agricultural use it's something an active agricultural which could by the way also be just a hobby Farm it's not necessarily like a mass commercial scale uh agricultural production uh and any agricultural equipment that that is an exception to this this ordinance that's not what we're trying to regulate here so then in terms of personal outdoor storage this is again there I think the last at the last meeting we had a little bit of a discussion about um and maybe even a little bit of confusion about the fact that the outdoor storage is only permitted if there's a acceptable principal use so like for personal for example your residential use of a property is the principal use your ability to store your stuff is the accessory use and then there's these exceptions of what doesn't doesn't get tripped in and anything above and beyond that is what we're really talking about here that would be subject to the requirements and so the exceptions uh got a little bit I added some in based on our conversation at the last meeting so the exceptions would be any Vehicles parked in the primary driveway we talked about how you know people who have three teenagers there might be five cars uh that's not really what we're talking about for this ordinance um so instead of adding a number here I just said if it's parked in the driveway and it's licensed and roadworthy that's accepted from the standard uh personal vehicles that are designed stored in a designated storage area uh provided they're licensed and roadworthy so this is if you had more vehicles but you were parked parking them in another area those are an exception but they have to be in a side or a rear yard and outside all rear and outside all setbacks so you can't park it on your neighbor neighboring prop property line for example uh recreational vehicles we talked a little bit about this we actually already have a section in the code that references it it's 32-339 uh not to open a can of worms but that section of the code is actually maybe not exactly how you'd like to see that written but at the moment those are our regulations about where recreational vehicles can be stored and then also accepted would be utility trailers first trailers are similar once again these are personal uh trailers personal horse trailers for example uh these are not if you're storing them for someone else so then jumping into the commercial so again this is somebody else's stuff that someone is storing uh then that's where we'd trip in the requirements um that you must have it fully screened if you're going to store you know five of your buddies horse trailers in a designated area that area has to be screened uh the storage area would have to be in a designated area so we can take a look at it to make sure it complies with the ordinance and it's outside of the setbacks in this case uh if you're going to do this and store it for other people that's when maybe we trip in the improved surface so if it's your own stuff you don't have to do that if you're doing it for other buddies then maybe you should have to do it but I'm throwing that out there for discussion based on on the last meeting and then lastly uh the table we kind of went back and forth on whether 20 acres was the right size for discussion purposes tonight I put it at 10 acres for A1 and A2 I actually left it higher in the R1 uh thinking that perhaps that's you know those are more compact Lots there are a few that are bigger but the idea being really that we wouldn't really want to promote commercial outdoor storage in any of those areas and then obviously left General business at thirty thousand so that is my next my next attempt to capture everything we talked about at the last meeting uh and so with that I will turn it back over to you for discussion thank you [29:16] **Chair:** I had something circled here Jennifer and I was just wondering it was under number three under the uh uh section on outdoor storage where it says refuse refuse and weeds how are we defining weeds there's weeds everywhere it just that's a tough statement it seems like there should be more like maintenance of weeds or something related to that versus just striking out [29:56] **Jennifer (City Planner):** yeah or strike it out everywhere yeah I I actually believe that's in your current ordinance right now um okay and I agree I agree or I'd be in big trouble at my house too vietnames are uh they have a mind of their own they're everywhere [30:17] **Commissioner 1:** go go ahead yeah you know well first Jennifer I'd like to say thank you for all the work you've done on this um my um and taking into consideration all the all the things we talked about last meeting um I appreciate the changes and the additions and everything um that said I'm still kind of of the mind that that it's hard for me to imagine that this is necessary in Grant um I know the council has directed you to work on this um my my personal feelings is kind of were chasing a problem that doesn't really exist maybe it exists on some businesses that want to start up storing things in the general business district as commercial storage but other than that on the residential side I just kind of think this is going to be a big change for the residents of grant that make be a gotcha moment for some of them I know we've Exempted the Agriculture and some of the other things but I think there's gonna be a big change people are out in moved out to the country to get away from this kind of Regulation and now it's coming back maybe it's a sign of the times and the fact that the community is growing but that's that's my general thought on the whole thing um that said my personal opinion would be that outdoor storage commercial should maybe not be a conditional use permit it should be interim use permit so that we have more control of tying that to the business that's located at the site and not allowing that particular storage use to happen in perpetuity with the land that's that's my thought there um but you know that's a tough one too because we've got businesses that sell agricultural or agricultural and like landscape Commodities gravel and rock and stone and that stuff all stored outside and that's probably part of their cup and it's probably been that way for a long time and it's probably fine there's businesses that that have Peak Seasons that store agricultural Commodities outside that store animal feed outside animal bedding so I I just think that we need to be careful that the existing businesses can mostly do what they're doing unless it's causing a nuisance and that we're not causing a huge change for residents [32:42] **Jennifer (City Planner):** conditional use permits this will not apply to anyone who's in compliance with their existing cup so this won't be a retroactively you know we're not tacking this on so I know some of those businesses that you're talking about this wouldn't be like we're going to go out and tell them now they need a new permit uh they have obviously protected rights under that conditional use permit provided that they are following their cups this will not affect them [33:04] **Commissioner 1:** and I wasn't insinuating that it would I've just I just kind of thinking forward to the next business that wants to be just like that right next door to them and how is it going to impact them and some of these businesses the businesses that have been here maybe we want more like that maybe we don't I don't know but I think not having a cup would be a good way to go so that we can tie it the use to the operator of the business um and if they're a good operator there's no problems if someone else comes in and they're not a good operator the permit can go away that's my fault that's my thoughts I think you did a good job incorporating what we talked about last meeting for sure [33:43] **Commissioner 2:** any thoughts on your side I agree with the uh being an interim use so there's a little more control there I agree yeah that I immediately circled that as interim also any other thoughts on wording [34:04] **Kim (City Staff):** I think there is a general agreement about you know restricting Grant that's this is a big step in in a direction and I think it's a valid attempt to do it um but I do share some of the same concerns that that you had one thing I would like to just kind of interject is I don't think or at least my understanding from the council is um this really isn't aimed at people storing their own stuff um which is why I think the way that the second draft uh is developed is much more clear that there's not going to be you know staff driving around looking for opportunities to enforce you know someone's personal storage of of their stuff which is why like accepting the utility trailers the um you know personal vehicles that the intent here is certainly not that I think the intent is really where we've faced a couple issues is really more about people doing this in some ways in a more Commercial Way and storing other people's stuff uh and having large quantities of it and that's really what it's aimed at so I don't think it's unless Jennifer feels different but to me this is absolutely not about you know telling people that they can't have their trailers or can't have their vehicles or um so I think those changes that you asked were at the last meeting make that much clearer uh from my perspective so for what it's worth personals definitely cleaned up and and written I think appropriately from my perspective [36:03] **Chair:** any other thoughts with Kim what are you looking for from us with this today are we recommending this to [36:09] **Kim (City Staff):** Mr chair Commissioners just uh any comments that you would like to for Jennifer to incorporate into a draft but then yes a recommendation to the city council on what you see before you [36:20] **Chair:** okay thank you other thoughts on I had one more couple more things one question Jennifer you know you covered it but in uh right after recordational Vehicles the utility trailers horse trailers and similar how does a farm with other people's trailers fall would that use those other trailers fall into the farm use versus storing them for your buddy like you say I think it's several Stables where they have multiple trailers they don't own them all but it's a farm use that those trailers are there [36:51] **Jennifer (City Planner):** so most of our stable facilities already have a conditional use permit so I think a lot of those would actually fall under that to be honest um I do think potentially depending on how many of those that they're they're storing it actually might fall into the commercial category um I do think it might be a little bit on a case-by-case basis to be perfectly honest if you're storing two or three uh other trailers and you have 50 acres or 40 acres I don't think anybody is ever going to look at it or think twice about it I think it would be more like all of a sudden there's a property that's storing 100 trailers for someone and then that I think would trip more into the commercial and wouldn't actually be part of the exception so um like all ordinances I think there's a little bit of gray gray area that could occur depending on the what if scenario you know uh I think the couple you know someone storing a couple trailers I doubt I doubt a that anybody's ever going to notice but also B that I think follows under the intent of the exceptions [37:54] **Chair:** okay thank you any other any thoughts on the Anchorage that's defined uh third page or fourth page [38:15] **Commissioner 1:** I think the 20 acres under the residential kind of eliminates Hawaiian share the residential lots are being considered so I think that's fine yeah I don't know that we want to encourage commercial storage on a residential lot um I guess the only hold up there would be you know a one-man and a Truck electrician storing a couple of things outside but you know those businesses are usually pretty neat and tidy anyway or have a pole barn or something so yeah yeah I don't know I think I'm it's hard for me to get behind any of it but it's yeah it's a good second draft I know the council is going to have lots of opinions so I don't know I think I don't know if there's a whole lot more we can do we've kind of now I've spoken my piece [39:15] **Chair:** well it's it's more the yeah feeling and the weather I think the effort is very violent at trying to put boundaries around it so yeah it's just I think our recommendation though would be to go to interim on the outdoor storage commercial and personal in general business yep and then the other one would be just just the comment on Weeds how to define that better [39:35] **Kim (City Staff):** Commissioners I do sincerely apologize I I thought that you guys had closed the public hearing to the direct ordinance who did not Jennifer wasn't that your recollection as well [39:46] **Jennifer (City Planner):** I think we may have left it open but it is open if you want to open public comment I'm sure for the minute yeah I didn't okay okay yeah thank you [40:02] **Chair:** yeah it's a need emotion to [40:09] **Commissioner 1:** I'll move to open public comment reopen public comment [40:13] **Chair:** give it a second [40:15] **Commissioner 2:** second [40:17] **Chair:** all four [40:18] **Commissioners:** all right all right [40:20] **Commissioner 3:** any knees I have seen [40:23] **Chair:** yeah so public hearing is open in the comments [40:54] **Jerry (Resident):** Jerry [...] 6261 Jasmine Avenue North I guess I just want to reinforce Dave's uh comments there with with mine I've lived in Grant a long time we are not what Pine Tree Hills or a congested Community where a mixture of residential and Rural properties and if you drive through the city of grant you see the wide variety of things there are some neighborhoods with small Lots like I live in but then there are a lot of Farms or large lots that have a combination of maybe woods and Fields and gas weeds whatever some of it's pretty wild stuff and I think most of the people that live here and they've lived here a long time except their neighbors work for what they are and are responsible for their own properties and not your neighbor's properties and I see things from time to time in my neighborhood that I said well that's not exactly what I would do in my yard but I don't go pound on your door and say I want you to have your yard like my yard and I'm sure there's some neighbors that don't really appreciate my yard with its weeds the way it is either you know but we tolerate each other and then get along fine now there are some people that want to have a perfect yard and I think those are maybe mostly the newcomers that buy a big piece but to build something nowadays you have to have your at least five acres and maybe ten and if you want to live that way then I guess you can buy that parcel and in the middle of it you can make your perfect yard where you can't see anything in the neighborhood and be happy with it but you don't have to change your neighbors in the process so I don't want to see Grant to become another suburb city of small lots that were at least with that attitude for what you can do and what you can't do in your yard I really want to see that freedom continue that we have and driving around tonight and I made a fairly short circuit I drove about five miles or so and I'm looking critically in people's yards and I was really impressed by how people take care of their things and yeah there might be something you see on our yard that well yeah that maybe wouldn't be there if if you had a tighten up ordinance but I really don't want to see that ordinance come our way I think we should leave things pretty well alone I don't know that there's a major problem with people having a multitude of things stored on their property for their friends and and it being a problem if there is you know and becomes a commercial thing I guess that problem could be addressed but for the most part I'd just like to leave things the way they are if you come out with changes to the ordinance at the least you're going to cause a lot of concern by people that some things change and are they going to be doing something different to us I think we should leave well enough alone thank you [43:58] **Chair:** thank you any other comment we don't have anyone online [44:06] **Kim (City Staff):** no Mr chair Commissioners we can close now [44:11] **Chair:** all right good news is that I had it right in the minutes I'll move to close the public hearing [44:20] **Commissioner 2:** all right second [44:22] **Chair:** all four [44:23] **Commissioners:** all right [44:24] **Commissioner 3:** all against I abstain okay [44:29] **Chair:** thank you all right public hearing is closed so um yes [44:31] **Jennifer (City Planner):** just one I just want to make one comment about the weeds just because there seems to be a little bit of confusion the first is it's already in your ordinance and the second is that the statement uh is actually only about a vacant land so this isn't about going and policing existing Residential Properties and their weed weeds or weeds that exist it's only about uh the owner in the statement is the owner of vacant land shall be responsible for keeping social land free of refuse and weeds so and I just want to make that clarification because if anybody's watching this I don't want them to get concerned that suddenly we're going to start enforcing a lead policy of some kind that that's not what the statement is about so thank you [45:14] **Commissioner 1:** I just had one more thought and this kind of partially a question for you Jennifer and just partly a thought is that I mean there are some areas if I recall that have been developed more recently perhaps that have um new developments with homeowners associations and that sort of thing is that correct and they have a multitude of rules and regulations perhaps to govern how people keep their properties in those newer developments is that true [45:48] **Jennifer (City Planner):** I mean there's a like like our um like Jerry was saying when he came up for public comment is that there's a multitude of of different types of properties in Grant and one option that is there is if you want to live in a property with covenants and very restrictive rules on what you can and can it do that's there for you [46:17] **Kim (City Staff):** so thank you Mr chair Commissioners I just will note on that thought the city has absolutely nothing to do with enforcing the Covenant [46:30] **Commissioner 1:** yeah yeah but that's yeah that's the homeowner association do yes absolutely [46:41] **Chair:** so we've essentially a choice to move it forward as a recommendation or [46:58] **Commissioner 1:** I have a question yeah how many votes do we need to pass something to the council or will this go to the council without a recommendation [47:06] **Kim (City Staff):** uh Mr chair Commissioners it should go to to the it would go with the 2-1 vote a one two it's it should go to the city council per my notes what I have is that the only kind of revision you guys discussed was putting the interim use on the [47:22] **Chair:** yep yes [47:24] **Kim (City Staff):** okay that's the only change that I have so I I think that now that that's clarified you can make the recommendation based on that revision that information to Jennifer [47:38] **Chair:** a recommendation [48:00] **Commissioner 1:** I'll make a motion that we leave well enough alone and do not recommend this to the changes to the city Council despite Jennifer's good work um [48:32] **Kim (City Staff):** Mr chair Commissioners like for clarification that would be recommended denial [48:41] **Chair:** okay recommend denial it would be that okay and what would be the state beyond that Kim would it go back for further rewrites or what are we um [48:43] **Kim (City Staff):** Mr chair Commissioners this will call okay all right with that [48:45] **Chair:** do I have a recommendation [48:46] **Commissioner 1:** yes yep motion recommended denial [48:50] **Commissioner 2:** second [48:52] **Chair:** all four [48:53] **Commissioners:** all right [48:55] **Commissioner 3:** I'll need abstain [48:59] **Chair:** okay it's noted [49:05] **Kim (City Staff):** so whatever recommendation for denial if Mr chair and commissioner because that was unanimous three to nothing with an abstain and to deny is it a fair statement to say that you don't want a new ordinance whatsoever you want to keep it the storage ordinance as is [49:31] **Commissioner 1:** that would be my intention um I I don't think it needs to come here again the city council wants to do something there obviously they're entitled they're entitled to do that right but no I just wanted a statement regarding your reasoning that's all I'm not arguing I'm not disagreeing yeah okay [49:52] **Kim (City Staff):** that's a fair statement for all of you [49:54] **Chair:** very fair thank you yep all right last order business would be uh to adjourn unless they're saying are we good okay all right I'm gonna get a motion to adjourn [50:06] **Commissioner 1:** I'll move to adjourn the meeting [50:09] **Commissioner 2:** second [50:11] **Chair:** all four [50:12] **Commissioners:** all right all right all gants all right [50:15] **Chair:** meetings close thank you [50:19] **Commissioners:** thanks Jennifer thanks Jennifer thanks Jennifer thank you yeah you too