All >> right, folks. I have 7 o'clock. We will call our town board meeting for January 21st, 2026 to order. First item on the agenda [clears throat] is the approval. Patrick. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair, if it pleases us to pour a couple of uh [snorts] additions to this evening's agenda. Um under uh after open time, uh staff would like to add close session regarding threatened litigation um both from uh North Oaks as well as White Bear Lake on the fire contract. Uh the North Oaks one is the JPA issue. [clears throat] Um, >> sure. But I believe that is it for the evening? Yep. All right. Does the board have anything? >> I have none. >> I [clears throat] have nothing. >> Hearing none, I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended. >> I'll move to approve the agenda as amended. >> A second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> All opposed. >> All right. Item three is approval payment of the bills. Steve sign off. >> I signed off. Move to approve payment of the bills. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. All right. Item four is approval of the prior meeting minutes from January 5th. Anybody have any changes, corrections? >> I did not. >> I saw nothing. Move to approve uh the minutes uh from the prior meeting. >> A second. >> Motion made and second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Item five. This is a consent agenda. There's four on the items. Uh if the board wishes to pull any or they look good. I just have one quick question. Uh, Chad, you had a chance to look over the infiltration grant paperwork? >> I read it. >> Okay. No, nothing changed. >> Boiler plate. >> Boiler plate. Yeah, exactly. It's boilerplate contract. >> What you'd expect from uh the Met Council. [laughter] >> All right. So, if there's no other questions or comments on the consent, I need a motion. >> Make a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> I'll second that. >> Motion's made in second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Item six is old business. We have none. So, we'll go right to item seven, our first public hearing. This is for Andrea Lane, uh, street improvements. I need a motion to wave the reading. >> I'll move to wave the reading that was properly published. >> A second. >> U, all in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All opposed. >> And then I need a motion to open up the public hearing. >> I'll move to open up the public hearing for Anderly Lane Project. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Larry, you going to give us an overview on this? >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair and town board and and residents. Thanks for coming out on a blustery night. Um, we have three projects we want to discuss tonight. Um, the Anderly Lane project, the Cottage Prospect and Lake View project, and the Bloom Road project. Um, together they with the estimates that we prepared for these projects, they amount to $9 million. our our project plans has have we've consistently done projects in the $3.5 to $4 million per year. So, we would propose to the town board that we hold on making decisions until all three hearings are are uh completed. So you have a chance to receive feedback from all the residents on all three projects before you make your decisions on whether to go with all three projects, to go with two of the projects, to go with one of the projects, or to go with none of the projects tonight. So we're going to start with Anderly Lane. Um so Anderly Lane, uh I have a quick PowerPoint which was presented at a neighborhood meeting last week. Um it'll be repeat for those that attended that meeting. Um so Anderly Lane, we're looking at several streets in the Anderly Lane area. It's Anderly Lane, Reed Place, Ross Lane, Berry Lane, Lavelli Court, Parker Avenue, Mil Street, and Saxony Court. Um the original construction ranged from 1971 to 1997. 1997 was uh the Saxony Court neighborhood. Um we had a variety of seal coats and crack sealing projects throughout the years. Uh the most recent 20 2005 and 2016. Um they're all it's all residential property. This makes up almost a mile in length. U pavement ratings range from 1 to 2.25. Um those were recently rated in 2025. Um the two 2.25 you can see is on on part of Saxony Court. Um most of the neighborhood has batuminous curbing that is um failing or eroded away. Um certain segments have concrete curbing uh Berry Lane and uh Saxony Court and the streets widths range from 29 to 31 ft. [cough] >> [clears throat] >> Um so we performed a feasibility study which uh um evaluated the these streets and we do soil borings which is evaluating soil beneath the streets and did pave pavement cing which uh um cores a a section of the patuminous to see what the condition of that pavement is. um wetland delineations. We evaluate all the ponding in the in the area. You evaluate the utilities, the sewer and water utilities. Um we take property owner feedback. We send out questionnaires to the residents on this project. Um and then we study things and look at uh the costs it would take to um improve the roadways and we look at different methods of uh rehabilitation and we perform those cost calculations. The report has funding for the project um assessments um and then we evaluate the schedule for the project. So, we um are recommending reclamation for this project due to the overall pavement condition. And what you see there is a pavement core. It's kind of a a representative sample of uh the cing. We did a number of cores um throughout the neighborhood. And so you can see at the bottom the the batuminous is is cracking and failing. So, we can't do just do a mill and overlay at this point in the life cycle of these streets except for one street that I'll get to in a second here. Um, street risk would would remain the same. Um, we would look to add concrete curb gutter to improve the drainage. Um, we'd also add storm sewer to also improve the drainage and I will go over all that. And then we do water man and sanitary sewer repairs for the for the neighborhood. So concrete curb and gutter um really helps us to control the drainage on the on these streets. And so we'd propose adding that for those streets that don't have concrete curb and gutter um and replacing it for Barry and Lane as well um that has some concrete curb in the gutter there. And so we like to have good good slope or grade to the to the edge of the road and then use that concrete curb and gutter to direct the drainage to our drainage um drainage structures. >> Hey folks, there's a couple more chairs up front. >> Yep. Please come in over here too. >> Yeah, both sides. >> I know no one likes to sit up [clears throat] front. We won't call on you. Okay, >> there's more over here. So the cur curbon gutter also helps uh define the street it helps prevent that edge failure. Um we get if we don't have curbon gutter and it's just batuminous it tends to erode that edge. Um that it also has we have also see plow damage if we used batuminous curb. Um and we like to think it improves the aesthetics of the street. So this might be tough to see but we are proposing some additional storm sewer pipe. It's the the new pipe is in green and so um we kind of evaluated the drainage of all all these streets and looking at Anderly on the on the right hand side a bit of new storm sewer um planned in that area to improve drainage. Adding some additional um structures at uh um Reed Place and Ross and Ross Lane. Um and then also bringing up some um drainage structures to the intersection of uh Mil Street and uh Parker Avenue. Um we've had uh two neighborhood meetings so far, one in November and the last one last week in uh uh on January 13th. Um, some of the main things that I took out of the meeting and and the comments we received were discussion of of restoration limits. How far back would we impact things and it's generally between 3 and 5 ft. Um, there were a number of Saxony questions related to the the Saxony Court area. Um, questions about uh Oakidge Oakidge pond and improvements there. And we got some questions on street lighting. And then in the questionnaires, we had some [clears throat] drainage um concerns. Um pedestrian safety on County Road H2. Um culde-sac size, some question the project need um street light additions again. Um park pedestrian safety and stop sign additions. So those are some of the questions we received. Um, we took a closer look at Saxony Court based on uh the feedback last week and we we went back and we we spoke with our geotechnical firm and consultant to to talk about the roadway condition. And you can see this is the pavement core for um Saxony Avenue or Saxony Court. Um it's a little bit different than the one I showed previously and really this street is somewhat on the on the verge of needing that reclamation project. But and if [clears throat] and in looking at it further, the thought was that we could do a mill and overlay um at this point in time versus doing a full reclamation project. The curb condition, we also took a second look at that and it was in better shape and um we would just look at spot repairs for that. Um the drain storm water drainage not a lot is needed there on this uh on this section of street. And then there was a question about assessments for duplexes. This is this uh court has uh duplexes. So so um two homes that are um connected. [clears throat] So looking at the assessment policy um so I looked at the assessment policy for that and it it is one unit for each um unit within that um comp each complex. So for example the the one at the top we have two units coming out that would be assessment for each of those. Um but we are recommending at this point um changing what the feasibility report says and recommending a mill and overlay for saxony court versus a uh reclamation. So, um, >> Larry, while you're on that one, is there any other if it's if we hold out Saxony, is there another project in the next couple years that that could be dumped into instead? >> Yeah, I would I would look at adding it to the Bloom project cuz that's a Millan overlay type project or you So, you have several options. You could add it to Bloom the Bloom Road project as a Millan overlay. You could do it with this project with Anderly Lane, but then you'd have kind of two different types of improvements happening with one project. >> Um, so you have several options there. >> Okay. >> But I think I'd recommend putting it with Bloom since it's a similar type project. [gasps] So since we don't uh get a chance to, we like to talk about if any of these projects move forward. I won't we have the same slide for all three projects but um we'll just talk about it once here but what to expect. So these these improvement projects are intrusive. They're doing work in your neighborhood. So you can expect um dust, noise, and mud. We uh try to mitigate the dust with uh um placing water uh when those and we have those dry periods. Um, we try to keep our construction time frame between 7:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. so the noise isn't interrupting um quieter periods. And then if there is a excessive rain, we have to work with the contractor on adding rock or other items to make keep the roads passable. Um at for these types of projects within neighborhoods um generally we're working from 7 to 7 and by the end of the end of the day think everything is back and usable. Um even during construction most of the time it's also usable. It's just when they're working in a specific area, you might have to wait for the contractor to wave you through or um um if there's a a deeper excavation, um we work with you to get your cars away from that area and um um so you can can leave when you need to leave. Uh rough roads, some temporary traffic control, temporary traffic changes. Um, we talked about weather delays and minor flooding. Um, you can expect uh paint marking some uh the work we're doing, flags in your yard and stakes that are annoying for mowing. We know that, but it helps us to uh direct the contractor with our work. Um, there'll be yard, driveway, irrigation, and proper or private utility damage if you have those items. Um, but those all be restored at the end of the project. Uh for a project like this project is as a reclamation, we'd probably have some temporary mailboxes set up [clears throat] somewhere that you would retrieve your mail because as we're building the street, we need to move that remove your mailbox temporarily so that we can do our work and we can we can if you have any questions, we can talk about that. So reclamation is a process of grinding that asphalt and mixing it with the gravel that's underneath the road. So that's that picture on the left. And so that machine grinds it and we're reusing that material as base for the road. And so the picture on the right is kind of what you're going to see while we're constructing the road. So it's kind of a gravel situation for the summer. Um this is kind of some pictures showing uh um concrete curb. Before we put the curb in, we would do all the utility work such as the the new storm sewer utility pipes. Those would go in um and then we'd be placing um new curb. And so those are some photos of that. Um during new new curb with new curb, we we have to let it harden and cure uh for a period of 5 to 7 days. So, um you'll need to park next to that curb. If you have u mobility restrictions, we'll work with you and maybe leave a section out that um that you can get to your home if you have that need and we can work with you on that. Um just let the inspector know if you have mobility issues. And this is kind of the paving operation, the final paving and what it would look like there near the end. So, kind of walk through costs. Uh um these costs we like to think they're they're a little higher than what we'd actually get on these projects, but um in these market conditions, it's it's it's uh a little difficult to predict and so we we try to aim a little bit higher on the cost at this point cuz there's still a b a bunch of unknowns. So, we have some contingency contingencies in here. Um, so we're looking estimating $4.3 million for the project. [clears throat] A portion of the costs are assessed to the benefiting property owners. And we have done similar projects in the of this type in uh um in the township. And we're running right around $12,000 for each residential unit um for these types of projects. And this uh that $12,000 isn't really necessarily related to the cost of the project. It's really the benefit to the property. Um state statutes and the the town's [clears throat] assessment policy dictates that we can assess up to the amount of benefit to your property, meaning the value before the project and the value of after the project. the value after the project is going to be higher and um we're estimating $12,000 of increase in value to your property um for this project. And that's what the basis of the assessment is. Um that amount is checked and verified using an appraiser to uh to to make sure that amount is proper for this project and that'll take place here in the next few months. Um so assessments [clears throat] um if the project moves forward the you'll have options available to either pay off or pay down that assessment otherwise it gets added to your uh property taxes over a period of 10 years spread out over a period of 10 years with interest. Um, in this case, uh, you know, all all units are assessed the same amount, although if there are properties that have, um, um, additional frontage that could be subdivided, they may be looking at multiple units. And then per the assessment policy, any corner lots are assessed at a half a unit each. Um, if you're on a quarter lot interior to the project and there's two streets improved, it'd be a half a unit on this street and a half a unit on that street and it equal one unit. And I can show you on a map how that lays out. Um, of the overall cost of $4.3 million estimated, um, 3.2 2 million of that is is accessible. Meaning that those the other uh 1.1 million is uh is coming from other other funding sources for other improvements such as the storm sewer work, the water main work and the sanitary repairs. Um we've calculated 99 units in this on this project and that assess at that assessment rate the assessments amount to uh nearly 1.2 2 million of that uh accessessible $3.2 million. Okay. So, this is the assessment map and so it's every property in this neighborhood that um is proposed to be assessed and I'll kind of walk through kind of that assessment policy. So, all the all the properties along Anderly are assessed one unit each except for the properties up near H2. They're on a quarter lot on H2. So, they're assessed a half a unit each. Kind of that same thing for the the um Berry Lane, Ross Place, and uh Reed Place. So, all those are one unit except for those pro those units up on at the intersection H2 that are a half a unit each. Um same thing for Parker Avenue and uh Mil Street. all one unit except for those that abut I forget that street at the on the northern end there. And then on Lavell Court, um all units except for those corner units are assessed one unit. The corner lot on the west side is subdividable as we've determined. So that'd be 1.5 units and then the other one on the other side is a half unit. This is Saxony Court and every unit in there is one unit each for those duplexes. So project funding um as I mentioned assessments amount to 1.2 million. Um township funds are used for the remainder remainder of those street costs, those accessible costs. um the water fund, the the water fund, sanitary fund, and storm fund fund the remainder of the project. And so that's what you pay in your uh utility bills for water sewer and storm sewer. And so that's where those funds come from to pay for those water improvements, sanitary improvements, and storm sewer. Um, as I mentioned, um, township budgets for approximately $4 million in street improvements each year. And, um, with the other projects we're going to talk about in a bit, um, the town board has a decision to make on which project should move forward. Um, communications, the township website is kind of the clearing house for all our communications. So, the feasibility report, if you're interested in reading that, is on this uh website. Um, we hold theseformational meetings and I'll go over kind of the schedule for upcoming meetings. Um, we use the questionnaires. Um, if the project moves forward or any of these projects move forward, um, we do a a very, uh, large newsletter that talks about the schedule, talks about who the contractor is, has contact information, emergency contact information, and a lot of frequently asked questions that um, we get on these projects uh, to inform you of what's happening. So, I encourage you if you if if this project moves forward to save that first newsletter because there's a lot of contact information in there that is helpful for you. Otherwise, you can always go to the website and retrieve that. >> Um, we use uh on if a project moves forward, we do daily construction updates on the website and you can subscribe to get email notifications of those updates. Um, so you can know what's happening in any particular day. Um, if you have individual concerns or access needs, mobility, uh, grad party, we want to know all that and you can have individual meetings or connections with the inspector um, to inform them of of your needs or talk about your your yard or what the impact is going to be for your property. So, here's the kind of upcoming schedule. Um, the public hearings tonight, January 21st. You can see some of the other meetings we've already had. If the project moves forward, we would look at holding uh another meeting, a more open house type meeting, um where you can come in and view the plans, see how we're projecting the property would or the project would impact your property, how far back we would need to do to go to make your driveway work properly or your yard work. And so that's an important meaning for you to kind of um see how things impact your property. We'd like to complete the plans in April, bring the project out to bid. It's competitive competitively bid on the open market and uh last year I think we had eight or nine biders for these types of projects. Um and then we select the lowest responsible bidder um for the project itself and then construction would occur hopefully starting in June wrapping up at the end of September is is our hope. So tonight we're looking at uh these requested actions of the board and the public is to hold our public hearing um take public testimony and then uh again order the improvements and preparation of plans and specifications. We would like to maybe hold that decision until all three public hearings have occurred. >> All right. uh questions of the board of Larry on this project >> I think >> and then we'll open it up to the public. >> The one question I had had to do with Saxony and Lane and I think we've addressed my concern on that one. Beth >> Yep. Um we taking a look at the projects to make sure the parking is okay. Yeah, that's uh that's going to be concern uh with some of these culde-sacs and so we'll have to work with the contractor on how we can stage our work and and keep people moving in and out of the neighborhood. >> Yeah, it was seems like it was important. And then the other question I had was um let's see, it would be for the sax. Would the would the same assessment amount apply if it's a milano? >> No. No. Um that's a great question. I didn't cover that. Um, it would be a different type of improvement, less costly, and be similar to an assessment amount and costs related to the Bloom Road assessment. We're running about $5,000 for a millet and overlay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And then if we pause on one or two or whatever this uh these road projects, does that feasibility study will keep on hand? So if it gets pushed to next year, would it still be viable or would we have to review it? >> Yeah, as I understand it, um you have one year to award a project from B once you order the project. So it would still be viable. We may have to go through through some uh the other public we might have have to have another public hearing at that point, but otherwise the feasibility study would be valid. >> All right. Any other questions? >> All right. So, I would need a motion to open up the >> [clears throat] >> uh for public comment. >> I'll move to open the hearing for public comment. >> Second. >> All in [clears throat] favor? Say >> I. I. >> All right. If you wish to speak to this particular road improvement, you need to come up to the podium uh and give your name and address for the record and then hopefully we can answer any questions you have. I know we've had a number of neighborhood meetings and a lot of the stuff has been covered a couple three times. And what we're going to do, I hate to keep you all here till the end of this, but we're going to have to hold any decisions till we get all done and and we'll decide what our next course of action is. So, anybody wish to speak to this one. Well, you guys are way too easy. [laughter] There's one person. >> All right. Hearing none. >> He had his hand up. [clears throat] >> Hello, Zach Reinhardt. Anderly Lane 5311. Uh bear with me here. I took a couple notes as you were speaking, sir. Um you said you're going to open it up to get three bids from different contractors. Is that correct? Did I hear that? >> No, it' be it'd be open to any biders that would want to bid on it. So, >> okay. >> Last year we had uh roughly eight or nine contractors for similar init. You and you picked the lowest bid. >> The lowest responsible bidder. Yep. >> Lowest responsible bidder. Okay. Um I asked because there was improvements done on off of Portland, right, recently. And I know there's a number of unhappy residents with the work that was done over there. Um curbs not looking good, communication poor. And when any of those residents did have any complaints or want to come to the city, the city or the township would say, "We'll talk to the contractor." Um, so if this did move forward with Anderly, I would I would expect that there should be some sort of liaison within the township that would field any concerns or complaints instead of just directing the residents to a contractor. where their uh concerns or complaints aren't aren't going anywhere or unanswered. >> Um I don't know if that's on your radar. That I don't think that was discussed at all. >> Yeah. So, we we do have a project inspector that would be on this project. >> Mhm. >> That would be out there every every day to handle any questions that come up. And if there's something that they can't answer or deal with, I'd be the person that would be um it it'd move up to me. Was that the same chain of command in place for the Portland project with the unhappy residents? >> Um, no. I'm I'm now a a township employee. >> Okay. >> So, I would be the one that would be directed to >> be handled a little bit different moving forward. >> Be handled a bit different. We're learning from what happened last year. Okay. >> We hadn't had the issues in other pro projects previous to last year. >> Um, so we are learning from that. >> Sure. And uh we've got a lot of ideas to to make improvements to that. >> Okay. >> And part of that responsible bidder is certain contractors may go on our naughty list. So even if they are low biders, we'll we'll review that with a fine tooth comb and they low bidder may not receive the bid. >> Yeah. And lowest responsible bidder. I mean you I wouldn't imagine you always want you don't always want to go with the lowest bid, right? A lot of hacks out there. Maybe that [clears throat] maybe that was part of the Portland issue with the wavy curbs and people not being happy with the quality of work is picking that lowest bid. I understand uh your due diligence and trying to save. >> By statute, we're we must pick the lowest responsible bidder. >> So, we would have to deem contractors not responsible to >> and we also have to remember if if all the bids come in too high, we may have to scrap it and >> y go next year. It all depends on the bidding and and what the climate is for construction. >> Yeah. >> One of the communication uh items that we we did learn and and [clears throat] I think it was pointed out to the residents there is contractors are there to do their thing when they're on the site. Employees who work for the contractor do their thing. They're not always the most accurate on the information that they're provided. So that's why it's important for the we call it the project inspector y >> to to be the the focal point for the communication because that we're paying the bill. >> Yes. >> They're doing the work. >> Mhm. >> And we got direct link to the people that are paying them to do the work. >> And [clears throat] we withhold funds if they aren't. So the communication piece, you're absolutely correct, is so vital, but it's got to be in the right channels and and we try to get that information out to the residents that you're going to hear different things from the guy that's holding the shovel. >> Yep. >> Uh the simple question, why are there three people holding, you know, standing at a a shovel spot? >> Sure. >> And only one's working. Why are we paying for that? Well, that really is irrelevant to the cost. I mean, they they bid it, right? >> Other people bid it for the same thing. Mhm. >> It's what happens, >> you know, through the whole project. So, >> we we learned. >> Yeah. >> And I think that hopefully >> there's also an issue of a lot of these contractors bring in subcontractors. >> So, you get a bleed down of communication just between those people. So, we're going to try to alleviate [clears throat] that issue also. >> Yeah. And so, but ultimately, uh >> the buck stops with with you guys, right? And so, we're all looking at at you guys when the project is finished. >> Absolutely. Well, you have my number. [laughter] >> Know where you live. >> I know. >> Um, [gasps] the inspector that would be hired, is that third party? Is that your responsibility? You're the inspector. You >> No, I'm not the inspector. Um, it'd be a a contract inspector. >> Mhm. >> And um >> and and Okay. part of um DOT is is is it an is it a signed inspector? Uh who is signing off saying this portion is correct, it's done properly. Who who is that? Who would that inspect? >> Has to be that inspector. Yep. >> Not a part of the company that is doing the work, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yep. We have to we have to make sure the inspector ensures that the work is done according to the township standards. >> Yep. >> And the standards in the contract. Sure. >> Yeah. We we hold the funds. >> Third party civil engineer. >> Yep. >> Certified inspector. >> Okay. >> And and they also uh um [snorts] as uh um board member Rusk mentioned, how many however many people it takes to do that work. We're we're measuring the work. >> We're not measuring or we're not counting the number of hours it takes to do the work. We're measuring the work that's installed. >> Sure. Larry, what's the mechanism for making sure that the residents know who they're needing to contact because I think that was something that needed that was not done well. >> That's that first newsletter that goes out. [clears throat] >> It has that contact information. It's bold. >> Hang on to those. I know you don't want to throw stuff away, but that's that'll be no numbers and you can call >> or or go to the website. >> It'll be front and center on that website. This is who you who who you start with. And >> if you're not satisfied with what they're telling you, [clears throat] I can always be reached. >> And at a baseline, too, you can just call the township hall. >> Staff there will direct you to where you need to go. >> And as residents, uh, Larry mentioned this, you know, the the irrigation systems, the invisible fences, they got to know about them, but they're responsible if they wreck them. >> But, you know, it's a communication channel. So, as as the project progresses and they get to your area, make sure they they are aware of what they're dealing with. And at the end of the project, towards the end of the if it gets done by September, which we sure hope it does, you know, we don't just write them a check and say, "Okay, you're done." There's usually a punch list of things that we aren't satisfied with and they have to be rectified before they get paid. >> Sure. >> So, it's in their interest to make sure they satisfy the township. Yeah, >> we we hold back funds and in fact with the last year's project, we're holding back funds until we get all those items that are on our list completed and they didn't finish all of them last fall. >> Okay? >> So, next spring there's still a list to get done >> and sat satisfied or done to our satisfaction before we pay out um the contract. >> Good to know. Um, are the plans what will happen down Anderly with the new curbs, uh, gutter, runoff, water, um, are those plans available yet? Have they been drafted? >> No, they they'll be available in March and you'll be invited to another openhouse type format meeting. >> Okay. >> Where you can come in and and speak to the designer. >> Gotcha. and [clears throat] and walk through um what impact it is for your property. How far back do we expect to get in your yard to make the grades work or make your driveway function properly? >> Okay, gotcha. I had some follow-up questions, but we'll wait till March to see what those plans look like. >> That's part of our tonight to order plans and specifications. >> Okay. Um you had the road with up there. I guess just a side thought on this. you had the road with up there was I think you said 29 to 31 ft. Um do you guys plan on widening the road with this? >> Nope. >> It'd be similar width to what it is. >> Okay. >> Um the appraisal $12,000. The appraisal says that our property values will increase by $12,000. Who does that appraisal? Um, it's a third party appraiser, certified appraiser, okay, >> that would perform that and uh verify if that amount is proper. >> It's >> Has the appraisal already been done to come up with that $12,000 or not? >> It's not ordered until >> the project's approved. >> But where did the 12 come from? >> Historical projects. >> Historical. I was just going to say and that that is not a per lot. you know, he doesn't go to every house and say, "Yours is 12, yours is 14, and it averages out to TW." It's an area appraisal. Correct. Understand? >> Yeah. So, don't I don't want people misled that each individual house, right, >> is going to be appraised because it's not the way. >> Okay. >> Um, just thinking about past appraisals that I've had done on different properties. I never see on there the road assessment, you know, like, oh, you're on a gravel road, your property value is $6,000 because you're on gravel. You're on a brand new concrete curb and gutter and so your property value increases by 14,000 or 12,000. So, um, I was just curious where that where where that number >> that's why appraisers use comps. Mhm. >> They pick properties that are similar to the property in question. So, >> okay. Um, and I guess lowest competent contractor to perform the work. Do we get a number of different appraisals um that we're able to see as residents? Say, so if this appraiser says >> you're talking about estimates >> $6,000, >> are you talking about estimates from >> uh as far as the that $12,000 appraisal came for what the residents would be um responsible to pay? [clears throat] >> Will there be a number of different appraisals? Are you just finding one appraiser to do that appraisal value? >> Just one. Are we able to get a number of different appraisals so we could take the lowest possible appraisal as far as what the residents will be responsible to pay? >> It's a cost issue. >> What's that? >> It's a cost issue. Appraisals aren't cheap. >> Sure. But $12,000 isn't cheap either. >> Well, but if you get three appraisal that the town has to pay for, we're that that's going to be rolled back into what you might save on a cheaper appraisal. It's going to get pushed back up. So, it's probably not going to do any good. That appraisal would cost >> 5 grand each. >> About 5,000 has been pretty much what uh what the average has been. >> Okay. So, if we get three different appraisals and it comes down to $10,000 per resident, that's a whole lot of savings for the residents that are paying for the project. >> But you're you're presuming that >> that the appraisals are going to be different. And you're also and also that requires that we review each appraisal to determine which one actually is accurate. >> Mhm. >> Some due diligence. >> Yes. >> But keep in keep in mind one thing. >> I would like to think that a number of different appraisals. So we don't just go with one just like we get different bids for the project. >> So at at the conclusion of the project and then we we hold another hearing assessment hearing. And so if you believe that assessment amount is improper, then you have their opportunity to challenge that or hire your own appraiser to uh determine if it is a a valid appraisal. So there's still a process. >> Sure. >> To assess and you have your your you have your opportunity to challenge that and appeal [snorts] it through that process. >> Okay. >> To expand on what Larry just said, if you're assuming that >> the 12,000 that's it, you have to live with it. You don't. you have the right to challenge it under statute. And when there's the assessment hearing comes up, we will go through that procedure with you. We do that every time. >> Okay? >> We explain everything and assist people to an extent. We we explain it, tell them what they have to do, go through the steps. Okay? >> So, yeah, it's >> that's that's an important point to keep in mind. >> The what the amount determined by the township is not it. You have the right to challenge it if you wish to under statute. >> Okay. But that's each individual property. >> Sure. Okay. Uh uh the interest total put on uh property taxes for 10 years. So, if it does come out to $12,000 per residence and we choose to put it on our property taxes over that 10-year payout time, >> do you guys have an idea of what and may and maybe I missed it up here, but do you have an idea of what that interest would come out to if we choose to do a 10-year payout? >> Uh, basically, the town's assessment policy calls we we'll have to issue bonds for this project. We don't have the cash sitting around [laughter] to do to do it. Uh and according to our assessment policy, it whatever our interest rate is on the bonds, >> uh we assess at uh one and a half times or we add uh basically uh if it comes out to if we issue the bonds for let's just say for four%. Then the assessment amount would be 5 a.5%. So, we add one and a half on onto it. Okay. >> And then, uh, even if you let it go onto your taxes in two years, if you get a windfall of cash somehow or whatever and you wanted to pay it off, you can always pay off the balance and and avoid future interest rates. >> Gotcha. So compounding over 10 years at 12 if it does come to 5 and a half% do we have a estimate on what that >> we have an amortization schedule for you. >> Okay. >> Um at the time of the assessment we'll show that and and show that amortization schedule the pay the payment schedule for that. >> Okay. >> At that hearing. >> Okay. And and that one's happening >> that would happen in October >> next month >> if the project moves forward. >> Okay. Right. It's once the project's complete and all the costs are known, then another hearing is held. >> Yep. >> To determine how much the assessment is actually going to be. Tonight, this $12,000 figure, that's only an estimate. It's not the final assess assessment. >> So, there will be another hearing >> and that's normally what, as Larry says about six, seven months down the road, >> October. the recent Portland work that we've already discussed um I believe that assessment came to 5,000 per resident. go over that amortization schedule of 10 years. What was that? What did that interest come out to? >> I don't know what the interest rate was. I didn't I'd have to look at the schedule. >> Yeah, I I don't have it off my >> Okay, you guys might have that info. >> Yeah, give me give me a second here and I can >> I'm just I'm just curious. Is it If it is 12, does it come out to 14 or is it going to end up being like 18? You know, I >> the first year will be $660. Okay. >> 660. [snorts] So then over 10 years it's 6600. >> Actually, we're >> Sure. >> I I don't want to I don't want to get into conversations because the mics won't pick up this stuff. So, >> okay. >> If if you got comments, you're going to have to come up to the podium. >> If it does, Last thing here. Thank you. Uh if it does come to the 12 um our property assessment, will that then immediately go up by 12,000 minimum I would assume next year and be on our property taxes as well? >> Well, could you talk about your fair market, your estimated market value for tax purposes? >> It Yes. >> No, not necessarily because it's up to Ramsey County, the Ramsey County Assessor to determine what the value of the property is. So, >> just because, >> you know, don't assume that if you're assessed $12,000 that your estimated market value is going to go up 12,000. No, it's >> it's separate issue. >> It's so with with recent uh road improvements where the resident pays x amount of dollars. Have you have you seen that carry over by the fair market value from Ramsey County? >> Haven't seen a study done on that. >> Okay. Yeah, you don't have to have a road improvement done for Ramsey County to run our taxes up [laughter] every year. I understand that. But >> I mean, there's so many factors to determine estimated market value for us. >> Okay? >> You'd really have to ask the county assessor about that. >> Okay. >> And and remember one other point too about the assessments. If you pay them off in full within the first 30 days of the assessment hearing, it's no interest. >> Mhm. >> You only have 30 days to pay that assessment. That's statue. Believe it or not, a lot of people do that more than you would imagine. >> Well, I I understand, but again, $12,000, it's not a tough one. >> assessment. It's 12 >> potentially. >> Yeah, I we understand what you're saying. And just so you know that these these dates that that we're that we're talking about, this is all based on a statutory framework. So, it's not like >> the town doesn't make this up as it goes along. >> We're just speaking to it as fact for the for the sake of conversation. Right. >> I understand. I understand. But I want to make it clear that these that this there's a statutory framework that the township has to follow and in doing assessments. >> Okay. Yep. >> This is part of the framework. >> Sure. >> Okay. That was it from me. Thank you. >> And to give you an idea, I don't have Portland Avenue, but last year's uh Portland Woods and Anderson Lane assessment was $12,000. We issued bonds for those projects. Uh the interest rate ended up at 6.3%. Uh the first year and they were assessed $12,000. Uh the first year of interest uh includes 15 months instead of 12 because it goes from the day that the assessment was adopted through the end of the next year. And so that first year the interest cost was uh $945. and your principal amount will be the same each year, but the interest will be lower because of the declining balance. But if you let the interest go for the full 10 years, uh you'd pay $4,347 in interest over the 10year period. >> If that gives you an idea, >> that is that a fixed rate, sir? Uh, yes, it's fixed at at that 6.3%. Like I say, they take the 12,000, divide that by 10, so you get a a principal amount of $1,200 and then the interest uh it declines each year because of the balance being lower. >> Thank you. >> All right. Name and address >> there. Christopher Arands, 5304 Berry Lane. Uh, I just wanted to get out in front of the board to just voice my support for moving the project forward to design and moving forward with this after that. Uh, yeah, I just wanted to voice support for it. I I understand that uh a lot of folks might have concerns. $12,000 isn't uh a small amount of money by any means. And oh, I am super not excited for that slide that you had on the screen that was like dirt and noise and chaos, but you know, nice things cost money and they are a lot of effort. And uh I grew up in the township uh moved away for a while and then came back and bought property here and I'm excited to be able to invest in it, not just for myself and my family, but for everyone in the community. So, uh I'm excited to see this move forward and eager to get some of those exact numbers that you were talking about. Uh, and I think the board should move forward. That's it. >> Thanks, Chris. >> You anyone else? >> Going once. >> Here we go. >> Hi, Shelley Cleber. Um, 5237. >> Sorry, what was it? >> Shelley Cleber. >> Shel. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, I just have a couple questions. Um, specifically about the feasibility studies. Um, I guess until last week I didn't realize, maybe others did, but there are three separate proposed projects. >> Um, and I'm just curious if that's each year, if that's how um the town engineering, if they approach each New Year's, what are we going to do this year? What are we going to work on? Cuz I would imagine that we're always, you know, we're either somewhere between the one 1.0 and the and the the 5.0 0 or whatever the the good grade is. Um so my question is is this um are who's paying for these feasibility studies? How much were the feasibility studies? And even if one one or a partial of these projects goes forward cuz there's not enough for all three projects. We know that. Um, then I heard a little bit, but I couldn't quite make it out. If two of the projects don't go forward, are we doing feasibility studies all over again? Now, if they're a few hundred, which I don't think they are, um, I'm I'm just curious more about those and how those are ordered, knowing that the costs are triple, you know, to do all three projects than what the budget allows. if that was overreaching, like too many things to get assessed knowing that we possibly wouldn't have funding to do all these projects. Yeah, I can answer that. We have a a seven-year plan that we prepared, I think it was 2020 or 20 early 2021 that identified the needs for the next seven years. And so um the project Anderly Lane and the Bloom were in the plan as one project and we decided to study them separately um just for a variety of reasons. Um, and then the Bloom Road project was not in our plan and we rerated our streets in 2025 and public works identified the degradation of those streets at a faster clip than we were expecting and as a different type of project looking to do a mill and overlay to um keep those keep that original investment in place. um that project was added to the plan this or added to the study and studied uh this year just because of the degradation we were seeing in those streets. So um this the feasibility studies are are ordered ahead of time and then they it's mixed into the cost for the project itself. the indirect costs for um studying the project, designing the project, um engineering, inspection, surveying, wetland delineation, soil borings, pavement cing, >> bonding, all those costs are those indirect costs that um are part of the project. >> Okay? And so if if uh if a project is to be um delayed for a future year, we still have that study. We might put we'll look at pricing we get on this project or future projects and then maybe add a inflation factor, but we have the study completed. >> Okay. So there are three different feasibility studies. Is there as a is it broken out somewhere in the information we see what the costs for each one of those? Yeah, we were only going g going over Anderly Lane right now. And so after this public hearing for Anderly Lane, I'll walk through the other two projects. >> Did we actually see that for this one? >> Feasibility study. >> How much that cost? >> How much that the feasibility cost? >> How much to each of the feasibility studies? I guess >> I don't quite remember what they were, but they vary >> a little bit depending on the improvement type. >> Okay. But it's at between 30 and 50,000 >> for all three of these combined for each per >> per. >> Okay. >> So if two of them don't go forward, they're good to hold and for I heard a year maybe, but I couldn't quite hear there was an offside. >> Well, we'll have to talk to the board about which future year that is, but if it's two years, I mean, we're not going to wait forever to do whatever streak gets um delayed. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right. One more. >> I'm Leanne Stefins. I'm with Saxony Court and I just want to say I had submitted my questions and and issues for your packet so we don't have to go over that again. But I just want to thank you for re-evaluating the needs that we have and realigning maybe more to a comparable type project that we can partner with. So if you have any questions about Saxony Court, reach out to me. Okay. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? All right. Hearing none. I'm going to ask for a motion to pause this public. Uh >> looks like we have one more. >> Oh, come on up. Don Wel, 5357 Laval Court. Um we have a a culde-sac and on our dog leg we have eight mailboxes all built out. Um who's responsible for it? We're getting it out of the way. And I don't know what you're going to do with the different Do you bring in different mailboxes for us or >> Yeah. So, um, typically with mailboxes and you might have a different situation. Sounds like you have one set of mailboxes for the whole block. >> Yep. >> Um, we >> they're all from the circle. >> Okay. Um, we have a bid item for removal of that mailbox and um salvaging it and and setting it aside so that it could be reinstalled at the conclusion of the project. >> I don't have to mess with it. >> You don't have to mess with it. No. >> Okay. >> Um, and then we would look at some temporary mailboxes and we'd have to find the right spot to put them. >> That don't make no difference. Wherever they go, we'll find them. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> And it'll be communicated where those are in that newsletter. >> All right. Is that it? [clears throat] >> All right. Hearing none. Uh I don't know, Chad. Is it the correct procedure just a motion pause on this public hearing? >> Well, you would close the you'd close the public portion of the hearing and then Yes. pause the actual final vote on it. >> Okay. >> And Larry can carry on with project two. >> Yes. >> So we're clear. All we're all the board's doing right now is simply closing the public hearing on Anderly, but it'll it'll reserve it's pausing it and reserving its right to vote on it till all of them are heard. Okay. >> Right. So I need a motion to close the public portion. >> I'll move to close the public portion of the hearing for the Anderly Lane project. I'll second. All >> in favor say I. >> I. >> All opposed. And then a just a motion to >> uh pause this. >> Pause. This is >> That'll work. >> It's work. It works. >> I I'll make that motion to pause the Anderly Lane hearing until we're done with the other two. >> I'll second. >> All right. All in favor say I. >> I. All opposed. >> And then we're going to move on to Cottage Avenue. Again, I have to ask for a motion to wave the reading. I'll move to wave the reading that was properly published. >> I'll second. All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All opposed. And then I need a motion to open up the public hearing. >> I'll move to open up the public hearing for the Cottage Avenue, Prospect Avenue, and Lake View Avenue, 2025-3 Street improvement project. >> A second. >> Motion made second. All in favor? >> I. >> I. >> All right, Larry. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, this presentation will go uh swifter because there's a lot of same slides. I won't repeat them. Um, but the we have a a separate project here. As I mentioned, this was separated from the Anderly project. Um, Cottage Avenue, Prospect Avenue, and Lake View Avenue. Um, they were constructed in 1977. Um, the last seal coat was 2005. Um, overlay in 1998 for a portion of the project area. Um it's all residential property again 7 miles in length uh pavement rating of one. Um again uh batuminous curb is failing or eroded as you can kind of see the the photograph of uh of the three streets. They're all um similar in length. >> What does the pavement rating mean? >> Oh, okay. Um the pavement rate we the town rates all the the town's streets on a scale of 0 to five. >> And so five meaning it's a brand new street and one meaning it's uh degraded down to one. And so when we're looking at improvements if you're below uh between a 2.2 and a 3.2 we look at mill and overlay type improvements to preserve and lengthen the life of that of the street. Um if you're below that 2.2, you're looking at more of a reconstruction or a reclamation type project. It's just beyond that point of uh investing in the pavement because the pavement is degraded below um the surface. Again, uh studied this very similarly to Anderly Lane. Um and we're recommending the same type of improvement, the reclamation um for the area. You can see the batuminous core here. Um, there's not a lot of depth to that core, not a lot of strength to that roain. You can see kind of the it's darker. The the aggregate doesn't jump out. It's it's degraded. Um, we'd look to add concrete curb and gutter and we'd like to make all the streets the same width at 28 feet in in width. Um, looking at adding more storm sewer, which I'll go over in a moment. again, water main and sanitary sewer repairs. Um, we want to investigate the water table on the north end. Um, looking at potentially raising the roadway a touch to improve um, trying to get above that water table and prevent some of that freeze thaw um, work there and looking at how we can improve uh, those culde-sacs for um, being able to turn around. Again, we propose the same type of curve curb and gutter style and for the same reasons to mainly to control drainage. So, these are some maps showing uh potential improvements to the storm sewer. And there's a bit here that we are adding to control and improve drainage along these streets. the the on all three streets, including up at H2 and along um along to the north, adding additional storm sewer to get that water off the road and uh um downstream. Again, we had uh a neighborhood meeting on the november 13th and January 13th. Some of the things we heard at at our latest neighborhood meeting was uh questions about rain gardens if they could be added. And the the answer is yes. We've had it rain gardens added on on projects in the past. It's coordinated with the watershed district and um funded partially by the watershed district for that. Um there was questions about coordination with other projects. Um with our H2 project for the trail. Um how would that be coordinated? Um it we're looking at a lot of investment here in this in this neighborhood with uh the trail project and the streets projects. And so there'll be a lot of coordination and um between the contractors access. Uh these are all three deadend culde-sacs. talked a bit about how we could stage the work. Um, looking at making sure they're not tearing open all three p all three streets at the same time, trying to stage and get getting one to a certain spot before you start the next. Um, and there's a question of interest rates, which we kind of talked about already tonight. Some of the other questionnaire comments were drainage issues, the dead ends in County Road H2, uh pedestrian safety on County Road H2, the culde-sac turning movement, some question the project need, um pond drainage issues, speeding and pavement heaving. Um I think we went through that pretty good on what to expect. Again, it'd be a similar type of project that we just uh talked about. So, getting into costs, uh, um, these three, three streets, uh, estimating things, uh, we're looking at, uh, $3.6 million. Again, we have the some of the same contingencies built in to this estimate. So, we'd like to think we're we're estimating high at this point. Um, again, the same assessment policy, same amount proposed, the $12,000 for each residential unit. um kind of the same process. So if there's question more questions about that, we can answer that. [snorts] So of the $3.6 million um 2.5 million of of that is accessible, meaning the the the difference between the 2.5 and 3.6 are utility as utility work, storm sewer work, [clears throat] water main work, and sanitary sewer work. On this project, we have uh 58 accessessible units and at that $12,000 um rate, it amounts to just about 700,000. So on this project, all the units uh are identified on the assessment map here. And we didn't find any any properties that could be subdivided on this project. So, all properties are assessed the same, one unit each, other than the properties that are along County Road H2, they're assessed at a half a unit per the policy. Um, this is a funding table. So, 700,000 for the assessments. The rest of that street work is 1.8 million. Um, that comes from the township funds and levy. And then you can see the utility funds that's paid out of your uh water and sewer bill. Um 200,000 for water work, water main work, 57,000 for sanitary sewer work. And a lot of those drainage improvements, 865,000 out of that storm utility fund. Um communications will be run. We have a different page dedicated to this project for Cottage Prospect and Lake View. And so you'd have to go to that project uh site for information. Um but again, we'd have the same same information and individual uh meetings that we could hold with people if the project moves forward. This has the same schedule as the last project. So, if uh if this project moves forward, we'd look at bringing plans to you in March and you'd be notified of uh that open house where you could come and view the plans and see how what we're planning to to do for these roadways and how it affect your property. And then completing the plans in April, awarding to a contractor in May, and starting in hopefully June for the project. And again, same the same requested actions for tonight. >> Beth, questions? >> I do. [clears throat] >> Um, I noticed that one of the concerns by the residents was speeding and I know um the last projects that we just completed, well, pretty much completed. The one of the residents made a request that they could have their street narrower because it does slow it down and they only had residents living on that street. Is that something if the neighborhood was interested, would we be able to offer that to them? >> Yeah, I I I'll have to look at the individual comment, but it might have been speeding on uh H2, not necessarily on >> on uh Cottage Prospect for Lake. >> But if they wanted a narrower street, you know, I mean, if when it's only residents, that was the reason why they asked before. I mean, just so they know they might have an option if that's what they like. Is that's >> Yeah. I mean, 28 ft. And I didn't I don't have a slide for it. I have a picture of what that looks like. And um you know, if we have a 28 foot wide street and you have parking >> if people parked on both sides, you could still get a fire truck through there. >> And so we like to stick with 28 ft as our our minimum when we can. >> Um but yes, if if there's um we could go to a narrower street. I think we did that on a project last year. If there was a a request to do that, we could, but it's um >> our practice is to try to keep 25 28 feet when we can. >> Yeah. >> And we have the available right away to do that. >> I just noticed it was a speeding issue. Sorry. >> You said all three were different though, right? All >> Yeah. They varied from 25 to 28. >> Okay. Sorry. Anything else? >> Nope. I'm good. >> Steve? >> Nope. I have no questions. >> Uh I think I don't have anything else either. All right. I need a motion to open up for public comment. >> I'll move to open the hearing for public comment. >> I'll second. >> Motion's made second. All in favor? >> I >> I. >> All right. Again, uh if you want to comment on this project, you need to come to the podium. Need a name and an address for the record. Everybody shy. Come on. Mr. Sitzka. [clears throat] >> I'm Dennis Sitzka, 5479 Lake View. Uh, can you back up that slide? >> Yes. >> You were showing the green lines. >> Keep going. There. What are the green lines going off to the east? Um, the green lines, uh, a lot of the drainage we would drain it north and then either tie into existing storm sewer that's up there. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Or drain it into the the the low the low areas up there. I I'm just kind of curious what that was. All right. You know what my street looks like. You walked on it. I'm all in favor. Get the job done. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else? [clears throat] >> That's Arthur Walker, 5421 Prospect Avenue. And like like I say, I see your line there with the going over to like Prospect Avenue when they put the first put the sewer in there, they want to run a lift station up Prospect, but then then that come up to $76 a foot. And when they rebid it again with Dick Sands was around, re rebid it and we got it for 33 I think dollars a foot by going down that way and across. But the thing is that whole road was put in to to to flow to the north and nothing's right on it. It was never done right. It nothing flows north. And of course we have that we have that what we call Jerry now. Prinsky used to call it the the prospect lake out there because every time it rains there's a big lake out there. It freezes in the winter time and you know kids are in it and and I don't know how many times they tried repairing that. It never gets repaired. They only been out there twice since they redid all this stuff. And then I was wondering about your are these are these are called soft curbs where you can actually drive over these. There's not a straight up curb, >> right? That's correct. They're surmount they're called surmountable curbs. So you can drive up over them. >> Okay. And I do you know what I don't I don't know what with our street is on Prospect. Do you you happen to know that? >> Um, it varies between 28 and 25 and 28 on the different streets. I I'm not sure what your street exactly is. But >> I mean, I've walked all three of them, but I don't I don't know the difference in them. I can't tell it. But I mean, I wouldn't want to go any any narrower than that. And, you know, that's that's tough the way it is. So is what are they going to do with Prospect Street now when they're talking about sewer and everything? Are they going to are they going to regrade the whole road so it flows to the north then? It's going to flow from H2 to the north. >> Yeah, that's the way it drains today. Um well, there's a there's a there's a large there's there's a hill and you know part of it drains to the south and then part of it drains to the north, >> right? And it was all supposed to drain to the north, but that's the way that job was done. and the underllayment was terrible and that's why the roads breaking up so much. >> So on the north end we have uh some contingency in there for some additional sand to go underneath the road to uh um help promote that drainage and we might even be building that road up as much as we can making it sure it works with the driveways but raising that road a bit to make sure it uh um it gets higher up in the water table. I mean, we couldn't even see how they could put homes down there. It was all water when, you know, then they started filling it in with sand and just, you know, built on top of it. I just can't even believe it. And then when you say it's all residential homes, how about that group home we have down there in Prospect, which we have about what, 10 buses a day go up and down there. Each kid's got to have a separate bus, you know, so you know, they go out to work and that. So, I mean, we got we got buses up and down that road all day long there. Okay. >> So, they get a different >> No, it's still >> it's a residential home. I mean, not a res it's a it's a business there. >> Yeah, it's still a residential in our um um zoning maps. It's still a residential property. I know there there might be a group home [clears throat] there, but it's still a residential property. Under Minnesota statutes, group homes are treated the same as single family homes for zoning purposes. And that's what Larry's talking about. So, it has to be treated as a single family home. So, then and then when you say on if you're you got the corner lot on H2 in Prospect, which we own that vacant lot, how do we get assessed on that? >> The corner lots at H2 are half a unit. So >> it would be 6,000. >> 6,000 then. Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all I got. >> I want to comment on your your comment about the water pooling at the intersections of H2 and Prospect and Lake View and Cottage. you know those that's the beauty of the if there is a beauty of the H2 project that's going along with this with this is that my goal is to get that all addressed because it was not addressed and you are 100% correct it was not addressed when the when the county redid H2 because they did it as a preservation project which put very little money into there then really fixed what the issue was and and so the H2 project is now 50 50% being funded by the county plus the township for that trail project. And [clears throat] I think the plans I've seen, they're going to address the pooling of the water to the south side of H2 and and away from there because you're you're right, it's it's a lake and it has been a lake for years. >> And like you say, they come back a second time and it didn't work where they they put the pipes down in trying to connect to the pipes that were under there. But supposedly they're supposed to be all collapsed anyway. >> Yeah. >> You know, no good. I mean, it was just was a total waste of time and everything they did out there. >> I I think the township is well aware that that was not in our best interest project. So, >> Mr. Rusek is the archeneemy of Ramsey County. >> [laughter] >> If you can't tell, that's why because I Jerry I talked to Jerry I don't know how many times before he died and he was assured by the prior boards it was going to be addressed even though it was a county project because the board was assured by the county that they would address it and they did not and I went as far as to the county commissioners who now aren't there anymore um saying you got to fix this mess. >> I know you used to call Bill M. I used to take Gary out for a walk. We took my wife and I took care of >> Yes. >> called Bill M all the time. >> As long >> as long as I'm sitting on this board, it's it's a it's on my list, believe me. >> All right. Thank you. >> They don't like me. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Uh Matt the floor 54 5433 Prospect Avenue. Um, kind of just to piggyback off of the concern of the appraisal for this, is the public going to get a copy of the appraisal to kind of see what properties that this appraiser would use because there's a there's a variance of homes within the neighborhood. So, >> okay, there is the the appraisal is a public document. When the township appre uh receives it, you could request a copy of it. But keep in mind, as Larry said earlier, this is not an appraisal of each individual property. is an overall area appraisal. >> Yeah, that's mass appraisal. Yep. Right. >> Yep. So, and earlier that you guys had mentioned that we would be able to appeal the assessment. Is there a timeline for that when when that would occur? >> Yeah. Here's how it works. >> If you don't mind. >> No, go ahead. We'll be repeating this in about 6 months. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [clears throat] Right now, tonight, all the board is doing is considering whether or not to approve to go ahead with the project. If they do it and the project's done, when the project is more or less complete and all the costs are totaled up, then the board will hold another hearing to actually levy the assessment. The amount you're seeing right, the $12,000 is nothing more than what's called a pending assessment. It's an estimated assessment, but the final there will be a final assessment called a levied assessment that will be adopted at a future hearing, as Larry said, probably October. And at that point in time, you have the right to come back in and testify to the board that whether you think the assessment is fair or not. Now, under the law, the town can only assess for the actual increase in value to the property. Any cost that is exceeds the estim the increase in value is considered to be called a taking and therefore cannot be assessed. So that what you know okay and what how it works is this at the next hearing at that hearing you have to f you have to file a written objection first and what we've been doing is we've been allowing people to file written objections at the hearing itself we have a form we pass around you sign off on it okay if you decide to appeal if you decide to file that written written appeal or written written objection you then have 30 days after that After the assessment is adopted to file to serve on the township and a an appeal of the assessment, you then have to within 10 days of filing that appeal with the township, you then have to file that with district court and it's a formal it's a formal appeal in front of district court at that point. But that's again that's not until then. >> Excuse me. >> So tax court you'd have to file. >> No, no not tax court official. >> District court. District court. Yeah. So this is basically what this is like is getting our truth and taxation notices saying what our taxes possibly could be. This is just an estimate of what the assessment could be. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> That's all my concerns. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else? >> Evening. I'm uh Jesse 5483 Lake View. I just had a couple concerns. One of them is um about the end of the street, which I do live on. Um a little bit concerned about the road height at the end of the street. You're talking about raising it. The end of our street is a wetland. Um I'm not sure what the piping is going to do. If you're going to run it right through the wetland, how you're going to drain some of our water from a wet land to a um was the road not done right the first time with the base or the concrete? I mean >> the the water heaving or or uh >> with with sewer. I mean why be replaced? This is a residential. There's hardly any traffic. >> Yep. >> Yeah. No, we try to raise it as much as we can to get it higher in the water table to prevent some of that freeze thaw from breaking things up. But then we also plan to have some sand um placed on underneath that and look at other mechanisms for trying to get that road built solidly. We can only we won't be able to raise it feet. We we we're talking about raising it maybe 6 in or 8 in. >> Concerned that any any any uh raising that you do is going to just dump off the water drainage problems from the street into our yards because we are the end of the street. >> Yeah. And we'd look at that to make sure that isn't happening that it's draining to to the other side, the wetland side. >> Another concern I have is the parking area down at the end of Lake View. Um, if we have to go ahead with the project, and I'm I'm for it, I would like to see that parking area removed at the end of the street. We've had a lot of dumping. We've had uh drug sold down there. There's been police called into that area multiple times. I understand people walk down there for the parks and I'm for that. But when we have to go through in the spring and clean up all the garbage that's left behind, it's a little bit annoying. Um, and if I don't know why we need such a big turnaround for that that one street is the only one that's got that huge turnaround. It's just causing problems for the rest of the year. Larry, do you look at that for turnaround for obviously garbage truck delivery trucks? So, there's obviously a minimum that they need so they're not backing in the driveways, >> right? Um what what type of problems are you seeing with the turn? >> It's the only street out of the three that has an expanded area that's a turnaround and that turnaround is causing parking. In the winter people use it for walking, but in the summer there's dumping. We've seen piles of food left out there. There's been people called for drugs [snorts] down at the end. Um, I'm just concerned that, you know, it's if we're all being assessed for this that why are we paying for, you know, a big turnaround that we don't need? It's a residential area. >> Yeah. >> Larry, will that be addressed in the plans and specifications? >> Yeah. If you can come back in March and we can we we'll evaluate what what our needs are for making um turning movements for vehicles and what we propose for a turnaround there. >> Okay. And you said that there is um utility damage that might occur. Are in the the previous slide when you you said that you know things that that could happen for the [clears throat] oh >> the project. Are you talking about water lines or power lines or are you just talking about like um electric fence? >> More of a irrigation if you have a sprinkler system. >> Okay. or if you have a dog fence that those type of a shallow um private utility lines or if you have like a a yard light that has a wire that goes near the street. Those types of things otherwise otherwise those other utilities like um fiber optic and gas or deeper that >> and you have a plan for mitigating any possible damage for that. Right. >> Right. That's included. They have to repair it. I'm just preparing you for the possibility that an irrigation your your sprinkler system might get damaged. And we like we like people to flag their heads >> understood. >> Before the project so we know where they're at and some contractors are better than others that uh making sure that they try to preserve them. Um just some people are more careful than others. Just out of curiosity, with all the digging that's going to be going on with the project, is there any plans to bury the power lines, there's a lot of county land at the end of Lake View and down trees cause a lot of, you know, >> Yeah. >> power issues sometimes. I think at the first neighborhood meeting someone brought that up that that's more of a sometimes these private uh power line companies um take the opportunity while we're doing a project to bury things. But that's really their decision. And it's uh if that's something you want, I would encourage you to talk to your power company, let them know that the project is occurring. We'll be talking with them too as a part of the project, but um if you really want that buried um that's something you'd work with them on. >> Thanks for your time. >> Thanks, Jesse. [clears throat] >> All right. Anyone else? >> Okay, hearing none. I need a motion to close the public portion of the hearing. >> I'll move to close the public portion of the hearing. >> Second. All >> favor say I. I. All right. Then I need a motion to pause this hearing. >> I'll make a motion to pause the hearing uh of this portion of of the uh meeting [clears throat] tonight for Cottage Avenue. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> All opposed. >> All right. Then the last one we have is the Bloom Edition area. Again, I need a motion to wave the reading. >> I'll move to make a motion to wave the reading that was properly published. >> A second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. All opposed. And then I need a motion to open up the public hearing. >> I'll move to open up the public hearing for the Bloom Edition area 2025-4 Street improvement project. Second. All >> in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All right. You're the man, Lair. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair and town board. Um, so the last project for this evening is a different type of project, more of a mill overlay type project for Bloom Road, Morgan Trail, Border Pine Court, and Bartella Court. Um, these were originally constructed in 20 or 2005 and 2004. We had some seal coats in 2009, 2014, and 2019. >> Larry Mike. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Um, again, residential property, half a mile in length. Pavement ratings in this case are 3 to 3.2. So, um, just crept under that 3.2 too and looking at some of that that degradation. Um looking to try to get this project done um to try to preserve the the the or batuminous below that top lift. Um it has concrete curb and gutter and street width varied from 28 to 30 ft. Again, we followed the same process for a feasibility study. Um, completing soil borings and pavement cing and and studying it in a similar way. Um, you can see the pictures here. You look at that street and you go, why are we even here? That street looks in really good shape. And I'll show you why in just a moment here. Um, this is a different type of improvement than what we just talked about. This is more of a a mill and overlay to to cap and preserve the um pavement um to um seal any cracking and prevent any further damage beneath that uh in below below the surface of the road. So I I included our our pavement degradation curve. So um I want to kind of quickly describe this. So um we rate our our streets on a 0 to5 scale. And so if you look at the curve to the left, if you did nothing to your street, you built the street and you did nothing, it would degrade on a curve over time and it would go down to a zero. Um what we're trying to accomplish here with this project is kind of intercept um any um um damage or degradation of the curve by um following um instead of the red line is follows that same curve to the left on the on the a graphic to the right. If you do nothing straight it follows that red curve. If you perhaps get to 30 years, then you have to do a a a expensive improvement to bring it up to brand new and you'd follow that red curve again. What we're trying to do here, and we're trying to do that with all our streets, is to intercept um degradation by doing um strategic crack sealing and seal coating along the way and then performing um mill and overlays to bring that pavement surface up and preserve the pavement section below that surface um to extend that life of the street. So generally we're trying to get 60 years out of that initial investment on your streets and by doing strategic mill and overlays and crack sealant seal coating. That's how we do that. And so we'd like to follow the the blue curve here. Do a milling overlay usually around year 20 to 25. Um [snorts] bring that um pavement um condition up. Do a few more crack sealing seal coating along the way. do another milling overlay. And usually you can get two milling overlays um one to two millaning overlays before it, you know, that pavement section below the um below that surface just keeps degrading. And so by following that blue curve, um it provides the best value um saving roughly 30% of costs over that 60-year time period. So, we're recommending a mill and overlay at a depth of 1.5 in leaving the existing batuminous of 2 in below. And so, you can see this pavement core, you can see that the aggregate just jumps out at you. It's in good condition below, but you can see up on top, it's degrading on the top. And so, we want to remove that surface um pavement and replace that. We would have a spot spot curb replacement. any curb that's uh cracked or settled, we'd look at replacing that. Um we're finding that Bertilla Court has more than we would normally expect. We normally see 25 to 30% of curb replaced on a project like this. Bartella Court, we're thinking it might be up to 50%. So, um we'd also like to add another half an inch. So we'd mill off an inch and a half and replace with 2 in on that surface adding to the strength. Um we do uh utility system repairs and maintenance. And then we are looking at Bertill Court. The island at the end is difficult for maintenance vehicles to maneuver. And so we would like to discuss with the neighborhood on removal of that uh of that uh center island in uh Bertilla Court. Um again we had neighborhood meetings including one last week and we had concerns for driveway impacts um the quality concerns someone mentioned um with the project last year. Um concerns for that island removal. there's uh plantings in that island that uh people are concerned about if we remove that um that they've invested time and money into that um culde-sac. So something we'd evaluate if this project moves forward um and discuss further. Um other the questionnaire concerns we received are street drainage issues, damage curb as we mentioned some question project need again um pond drainage issues and speeding um with the neighborhood in Portland Avenue. Um this project would expect a little bit less dust, noise and mud. We wouldn't be going down to gravel. Um it'd be more of a mil and overlay. So we're billing off that surface. We'd replace curb um that's there with uh you can see the picture to the right. So you can see how far back we would impact you if we have some damaged curb that we'd need to replace. Otherwise, it's a a much simpler improvement than the projects we just were talking through and then we'd pave at the end again. So cost for this project um again it's a half a mile um right around a million dollars. Again, we're like to think we're um our cost estimates are high at this point, but we'll see what the market says. Um this project we're looking at a different type of improvement. It's Millan overlay. Um we've evaluated and had histo history with this type of project in the past and that benefit is uh $5,000 for each residential unit. Again, spread out over 10 years. Again, all all units are assessed the same amount. And those corner lots are half a unit for each improved side. Um, look at the looking at the accessessible amount. You can see that the overall accessessible amount is a higher percentage because of the type improvement we're doing here. Um, um, right about 780,000 of that 987,000. Uh, we've calculated 57 units on this project. at that $5,000 rate. It amounts to 285,000 generated from assessments. Um, this assessment map is a little bit more complicated. Um, we have a number of larger properties in this project area. So, some of them are assessed multiple units. Um, so in some cases two units and again the the units that are within the project area might be assessed a half unit on each improved roadway for a total of one. And then those properties that are out near H or I'm sorry, Portland Avenue are assessed a half unit each. This is assessment map for Bartella. It's uh um they're just assessed one unit each for for each property. That's this is a a simpler simpler assessment map on this street. Um so our funding for this project um estimated assessments 285,000 about 500,000 and township levy funds um uh water funds from of 64,000 sanitary funds 44,000 and storm funds of 99,000. Again, communications ones would uh um be similar to the last project having you know you could you can we you can sign up for mass emails at the um subscribe to emails on the website. Um individual meetings for those that have property concerns. Same exact schedule as the last projects. So then the same requested actions of the board. >> Beth, >> no questions. >> The cult [snorts] um is is that part of this project simply more because the town employees say it's an issue. I mean, I've heard it several [snorts] years ago that it's tight to maneuver snowplows through there, >> right? uh when you had your public meetings, what was the general consensus of the neighborhood there uh about changing? I know you said there's some concerns with the shrubbery and things in there, but overall, what what is the >> Yeah, I I think their preference would probably be to keep it. they've invested that time and um resources to plant it, but really the yeah, it was the public works concerns for plowing and being able to maneuver their equipment in that culde-sac tight culde-sac. There are other islands on other streets, including Bartella at the entrance that are fine for maneuvering the the plowing, but at the end of the culde-sac, it's it's difficult. >> So, is there any room to widen the culde-sac? as it exists currently. >> We can go back to that slide. It would be difficult. We can look at that as an option. >> We don't have much rightway to >> We can look at that. I mean, you're you have that you'd have to be you'd be impeding in those driveways and and uh >> just asking. >> Yeah, it would it would be difficult, but we could look at that. >> Well, the only other option is to shrink the island >> or shrink the island. Yeah. Then it gets to be is it cost effective to even do that? >> Depends on how attached to their shrubbery they are. [snorts] >> That all I got. >> That's it. I'm just questioning. >> All right. Uh I need a motion it up or motion to open up for public comment. >> I'll move to open the hearing up for public comment. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. All right. Anybody here want to speak to the Bloom project? >> Nothing new. >> They've heard it all [laughter] >> by now. >> I know it's a little bit redundant, but we got to make sure everybody's comfortable with what we're what we're doing here. Uh, seeing no one does respond to that, I need a motion to close the public portion. >> I'll move to close close the public portion of the hearing. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. Then I need a motion to pause this hearing and so we can discuss what we're going to do. >> I'll move to pause this hearing along [snorts] with the other two so we can discuss next steps. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All right. According to my calculations, this is 8 million. I thought I heard 9 million. Did I? >> When you total the three projects up as they're estimated, it comes to 8,982,000. >> Okay. I must have missed $100. >> [laughter] >> And we've always been on track for 4 million a year or somewhere's in that area. >> Yes. >> And at 4 million, what's that do with our uh levy? >> Um I do have a slide that I can show you a comparison on all these uh things. Um but to give you Oops. Larry, can I borrow your computer? Yes. because obviously this is all this is going to impact every resident in the township what we do tonight. So, >> yep. >> Yeah. To give you an idea, are currently with the u current bond projects that we've got, we've got the four bond issues. Uh we've issued uh with property taxes. Uh just to pay our debt in 2026, we had a debt levy of 670,000 uh dollars. Uh if we did all three projects, we'd have to issue about 9 million in bonds. Uh the levy for that would be right around $535,000. And if you did um uh Anderly Lane and Bloom, uh you're looking at about uh just over a $5 million project. And the levy would end up being uh $325,740 for that. And if you did Bloom and uh the cottage prospect, uh that would be a 4,653,000 project and you'd be looking at a levy of about 283 283,000. And if you take our 2026 uh taxes right now on these valued homes going from 267 almost 268,000 up to 536,000. You can see in the yellow there that is what they would pay in township taxes. That's both uh the general levy and the debt [snorts] levy. And to give you an idea, if we did all three projects and we had to levy $535,000 additional dollars to pay that levy off, you can see the property taxes would increase in the yellow there to $728 all the way up to 1,593. And going over what uh we're currently paying in 2026 taxes, uh you can see the increase would be anywhere from $58 up to 126. Again, if you did just uh the projects uh for the 325,740, uh these are the taxes again in the yellow. And the increase from uh just the bonds would be uh the $35 up to the 77. And then doing uh the final one uh where we'd have to levy 28320. Uh again, taxes in the yellow. And then uh the increase from current taxes or the increase in the levy would be $30 to $67. Uh, you didn't break these down in percentage of what our levy would go up, did you? >> I did not. >> I think that probably is more of a factor for us than anything. >> Cuz I mean, if I looked at that and it was like we're going to get hit with another 1500, I think everybody on my street would probably come down and burn the place down. >> Well, if we stay new house. >> Yeah. [laughter] If we stay at the 4 million target that we've been trying to stay at, that only means we either do Anderly or Cottage and Bloom. There's there's no other options there. If we try to stay with that that market, uh, is there any way I know we have a formula for the 7 million. Is there any way to subsidize some of this this year? I know we don't like to do that because this is projected to carry for 20 years, but >> but I don't know if that's gonna how much we >> the you've got a number of options. Um the township portion of the bond or the levy portion of the bond, you could issue that bond over a longer period than 10 years. uh even though the assessments are paid off in 10 years, um you could issue a 15-year or 20-year bond. Uh the problem with going 15 to 20 years with the bond is by the time you pay off the bond, you're back in there redoing those streets with an overlay and probably issuing bonds again for it. So, um, but that's an option. Um, and again, I used I took the 2025 bond and the annual bond payment and applied that basically on a percentage based on the uh project cost. So, if there's more water and sewer and storm water work in these projects that would come from those funds, it would lower the levy portion. But with not doing a whole lot of work, uh, you know, I just did percentage-wise based off of the 2025 uh, projects. So again, the levy might be a little bit lower doing those. Um the other issue that Larry and I were just discussing, if you if you want to stay within that 4 million kind of area for projects, uh right now the 2027 projects uh that we have estimated, they're at 3,523,000. 28s are at 3,378,000 and then 29 is at 3,717,000. So you're >> basically pushing this can down, >> pushing everything back down a a year. Um Larry talked about the plan, the 7-year plan. That seven-year plan expire or is done in 2029. So we don't have anything projected out for 2030. So I mean you >> plus we have 65 miles of road so this is going to keep spiraling. [sighs and gasps] >> Beth questions comments. [laughter] >> Aren't you glad you got on this? >> You never like to vote for an increase to the residents. I mean you just don't. But I you know it's it's part of kind of housekeeping. We need the infrastructure. We need the roads, you know, nobody I mean, it makes people's properties poor if you leave the roads and sewer and water in crummy conditions. So, it's it's just one of those it's just not sexy. >> Well, >> the only thing I say about Prospect Avenue, the holes in the road traffic. [laughter] Yeah, part of the problem too is uh we're very conscious of drainage because of this white bear lawsuit. We're accounting for every single drop of water that hits the township. And these road improvements are fairly important, especially when it comes to storm because we're trying to capture all this water, make sure it's getting to the correct ponds, make sure it's going in the sediment, make sure it's flowing away. So, these road projects aren't just to make it a smooth ride to your house. This is this got a lot more to do with it. So that's why we're very conscious of how we're doing these. But Steve, you got a >> Well, and there's no magic wand here. Um, with the H2 project going through there, both the Anderly project plus the cottage boom and uh or Scottish, excuse me, the cottage prospect and lake view are tied into that. I mean, that's it's all needs to be done. So, that's the only comment I make is we're kind of at a point where that's a lot of lot to bite off, but [clears throat] it needs to happen. >> And that uh that's going that will be next year or this year, the the trail if it goes. >> Yes. Yes. That's proposed for this year. That it's uh we're targeting an earlier bid date and hopefully earlier construction date for the trail project. >> All right. So your suggestion is just the uh uh cottage in bloom. >> Yes, that shop. >> I agree with that. >> It's a small but it's a small piece. But >> well, but that's about half of the road project costs. That's 4 million versus 4.4 whatever it is. But [snorts] uh but then now we're like I said now we're looking at uh Anderly if it's next year that $3 million project for next year is going down the road. So somewhere we're going to have to bite the bullet and take some heat on this. But I unless unless there's >> is there going to be shorter projects that we're pl I mean we could roll it in so it you know we can kind of blend it a little better. I don't know. Is that an option? You know what what's coming up for project? >> Well, like I said, I think I think these costs are I'm really hopeful these costs are are a bit high and that if if you uh um if you did uh two of the projects that were we're not going to be at that 4 million, we'd be somewhere hopefully in the 3 millions um for them. But, um, I I think, uh, in my opinion, the with, uh, the work on H2 and the drainage improvements we are hopefully going to be making with the H2 project, it might be better from a constructability and, uh, um, construction staging standpoint to do the Anderly and the Bloom. >> Yes. instead of the other three >> instead of the cottage and and hold another year, one more year. >> Well, again, I'll ask this question as part of the H2 project >> that is that going to address the corners? Yes. At Bloom Cottage, >> we're planning we're already planning for that. those plans are further along and we're planning for those improvements of drainage at the intersection >> because as residents have pointed out while the water is supposed to drain to the north it drains to the south and part of those roads. So, as long as they're going to fix it, I can post. >> Well, if if you want comment, you got to come up. Normally, we have the the public portion is closed, but I know this is a little convoluted with the way we're doing this. So, >> the only question I got is did you you did Anderlay and Bloom and you did the cottage and bloom. What about cottage and Anderly? What's that going to cost? Uh we can't afford Cottage and Anderly. That that puts us over the top. >> The two of them alone would be right around uh >> 8 million. See, our our only options we we either combine Cottage and Bloom or we just go straight Anderly. I to me anyway. I don't know if I like Anderly and Bloom. That's 5.5 million. >> Well, yeah. Do Andery alone. But uh you also I mean you're worried about >> Well, I I know like I said we've had a bad track record with the county and the residents of on the Long H2 have been dealing with this for a long time. >> You got a preference, Beth? >> He wants something. >> All right. Well, we're going to just allow a couple more. Otherwise, it's it's going to be our decision here. as much as >> uh I I I'm in favor of the Bloom stuff because as I said, you got to pay to keep things up. Those graphs make sense, all that stuff. But man, I can't emphasize just how much like the roads of Anderling, Berry Lane, and all that are just falling apart. Like I'm actually really lucky. I live in the culde-sac Berry Lane. You have that small bit of concrete curbing that's actually in decent shape. I was talking with Larry a bit a couple weeks ago. Maybe that can be salvaged instead of replaced at an end. I don't care. it doesn't matter. But the rest of the stuff throughout that whole neighborhood and that project, those curbs are obliterated. The plows just eviscerate the uh those curbs every single year. And I have to say looking at the Bloom project, it's like I get it, but like man, everything else is just in shambles. And if I had to pick, I'd probably cut that out. But I realize it's a very small percentage of the other two large projects. The statements you made are the same that those people that live on those other three roads could say those roads are >> in dire need of of work. Also, >> it's a hard decision you have to make between if you really insist on choosing either Anderly or the other roads. >> I like to do them all, but can't we? That's a lot to bite off. So, >> I get it. I understand. But yeah, I I guess I'd also draw in what Larry said about like, you know, for the sake [snorts] of tying into that H2 project and whatnot, like, man, I really really want to see Anderly done, but I get it. It's a tough decision. I don't envy you in that regard. >> All right, Steve. In a real world, what would you pick? [laughter] >> Oh, boy. Put me on the spot. In a real world, I'd take it all and do it all, but unfortunately, we can't. So, I guess I if based on what Larry says, if the Anderly project makes more sense as it ties into the H2 project, well, then I'm all for it. But we cannot kick the other piece of that down the road too much further because those roads are in bad shape >> because with the with the trail jumping H2, it it still affects both these projects. >> It does. Yeah. So it doesn't matter which ones, it's still going to affect >> the the difference with Anderly is Anderly have they have other routes to exit the neighborhood. If we're working on H2 and working up in that area, they have other routes. Most of those roadways have other routes to get out. >> All right. >> So when the other side of the H2 gets done, there is no hope for them as far as other options. They've got one road in and one road out. >> Yes. But but I guess my point is a trail project at that intersection and uh we're going to work our best to coordinate between the two projects. If you chose to go with cottage and prospect and lake view, we'd work it out, but there's more challenges I think on the north end when you have culde-sacs that only have one way out in and out. >> I'm sold. >> Hi, Beth. I'm sold. >> I'm going to go with Steve on this one for the same reasons. >> What's that, >> Anderly? >> All right. Uh Tom, can we [snorts] >> afford Ander Lee and Bloom? >> Well, it's not a question. >> Can the residents afford it? >> I was just going to say can afford him. It's a m It's a matter of what kind of impact you do want to put on the >> Yeah. Uh regardless, we're going to issue bonds. So whether we issue $9 million in bonds, 5 million in bonds, or 4 million in bonds really isn't going to matter. What matters is what you feel the residents can afford in uh a debt a debt levy. Uh right now, uh I have the Anderly Lane and the Bloom uh lane. Uh if we did those projects, what uh we're possibly looking at assessments uh uh and the general levy. And you can see it would be a tax increase of $35 to $77. um if you feel that's doable. Um and again, depending on utility work in there, it maybe the levied amount would be a little bit lower. um cuz I just did it on a percentage basis off of the the 2025 project and uh uh I'm not really sure what interest rates are have done on in the bond market for these type of projects. And like I say, you could even extend out the bond further, you know, do a 15-year bond instead of a 10-year bond. Um, >> yeah, we're also compound interest that's going to eat away at some of that. And >> nice to know what Ramsey County is going to do. >> Yeah. >> What's the impact? >> Yeah, I know. That's and that's the problem because it's increase >> uh Anderly uh would be about uh 4,350,000 >> on the tax. You don't have a slide that >> No, I don't I don't. >> Right. Tom, you got just a I know this is a vague question, but uh last year our levy was 8% higher than the previous year. I think it was and it was obviously voted down to seven. Uh any idea what another 5 million on a on a bond's going to do for percentage wise? >> Um that's where most residents are going to see it. you know, the individual, you know, taxes on their house is one thing, but when the overall budget goes up 10%, it gets a little tough. >> Yeah. Um, give me a second here. >> I mean, some of it's all optics, but and and then I think we can still explore um our rationing of that uh 7 million to see if we can ease some of this pain. I know I don't like to mess with that >> formula because that was set up. I can say we set that for we're going to be pressed to use it adjust that formula every time if we start doing that it's >> he's talking about the the money that was allocated to the dedicated to the township >> a one a one time shot that we're trying to squeak that out for as long as we can possibly do it but [clears throat] >> Mr. Mr. Chair, I might have a suggestion. Um, >> we're open for anything. [laughter] >> And a magic magic. >> Um, and now Saxony Court, I imagine you're agre agreeing that that would be as a part of a bill and overlay either with Bloom or with another future project. So that the Anderly price go down a bit. Um, removing Saxony. Um, but I mean you could approve Bloom with Saxony and Anderly. We develop plans and specs and we go to market and see what kind of costs come back before you make a decision whether to move forward with Bloom. You can make that decision at that point. Um, >> how much competition do you anticipate we'll see with, you know, if they're hungry for work, then the bids will go down. How much competition are we going to have from the other municipal? >> Yeah, I mean we last year we had I think a record like nine biders for a similar project that some of the private development work has slowed down. So contractors are hungry for work and >> so we might pick up a little something there. >> We might pick up something there. Our the actual work as we design it. We try to refine our design and and look for costsaving measures through our design. Um, you know, we might be in that same five billion,5 million dollar range. >> What What was Saxony? 700,000. >> Saxony itself. I don't have that broken out. >> Oh, I I thought you did. >> Okay. >> It's a short called the Sax. So, it's >> right. >> Okay. Back to your original question. If we did Anderly and uh Bloom and issued 5,355,000 in bonds, uh the levy would be approximately 325,740. Uh that would increase our property taxes uh 4.9%. And what would the sheriff and fire? >> Well, yeah, that's not even taken that into consideration at this point. >> Yeah. Well, that's the, you know, the thing is it's such a, you know, you never know what's going to happen there. And then Ramsey County, I mean, they've been killing the township. >> Yep. >> Well, what's the pleasure of the board? Need to make a decision tonight. So they at least we can move forward to plans and specs to see where we're actually going to be at. >> Anderly, >> you're voting just Anderly. >> I don't know if we can stomach much more. >> Beth, >> what was it? We we're going to take Anderly and then we're going to strip uh >> tax out of it. >> Okay. >> But doesn't it doesn't offset adding Bloom back in. So Boom was the cheaper one, correct? >> Yeah, the 1 million. >> Yeah, >> good. >> I don't know. I'm guess I'm willing to take a chance on Anderly and Bloom. >> Well, me personally, I I think we have to do one of the two on H2. >> Yes, we do. >> Because we we just got too many issues on that road that have got to be resolved with the trail. And I I would like to see Anderly and Bloom combined if it's possible >> then. Let's do it. >> Okay. >> I'm for it. I'll go. >> Yeah, I can go with that. >> And and then like I said, now obviously cottage was only 2.6. Now that's under that four. So next year when we look at uh the cottage lake view and then combining with what we've already got on schedule, we might be able to massage that to keep around that 4 million. At least that the numbers seem to be closer if we do that. >> You're right. All right. >> All right. So, is that pleasure of the board? >> I think so. >> All right. >> So, is the saxony piece going to be put back into this? >> No. >> We're stripping that out. >> Take saxony out. >> Total. >> So, it's not happening at all. >> No. I >> We do that with a mill overlay project is what I would recommend. >> But that's what you're doing with Bloom. >> That's I was going to say that's what you're doing with Bloom. So, it is back in. >> It's just >> a different type of project. >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. [clears throat] Just so it's clear. Saxony is included in the mill and overlay project. I'm >> glad you clarified that because I was thinking it was stripped up. All right. >> I'll make a motion then if that's where we're at. >> We're going to have to go back now. >> Got to go back. Okay. >> Each one of them individually. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> We'll have to go back and uh I need a motion to reopen the Anderly Lane. >> I'll move to reopen the Anderly Lane public hearing. I'll second. All >> in favor say I. I. All opposed. >> And then I need a motion to adopt the resolution ador ordering improvements. >> I'll make a motion to adopt a resolution ordering improvements for the Anderday Lane area 2025-2 Street improvement project excluding Saxony uh Court and Lane from that project. >> Correct. >> I thought that was a Milan overlay. >> That's why it's but it was included with this. >> Oh, it's included. Okay. So, all right then. I'll second. >> All right. Motion's made second. [clears throat] All in favor? >> I >> I. >> All right. That motion carries. Then I need one to adopt the resolution ordering plans and spec. >> I'll make a motion to adopt resolution ordering preparation of plans and specifications for Anderly Lane area 2025-2 Street improvement project uh with Saxony taken out. >> I'll second. >> Motion made second. All in favor say I. >> All opposed. >> All right. Then I need a motion to o reopen the Cottage Avenue public hearing. >> I'll move to reopen the Cottage Prospect and Lake View public hearing. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> All right. Then we need a motion to deny ordering the improvements. Correct. >> I'll make a motion to deny the uh resolution ordering improvements for the uh project. I don't have the I can find it here yet, but the uh >> 2025-3. >> Yeah, 2025-3 street improvement project. >> I'll second. >> Motion made second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Then I need a motion to deny the ordering of preparation plans and specs. >> I'll move to deny the resolution ordering preparation and plan of plans and specifications for the Bloom Prospect, excuse me, for the Prospect Cottage and Lake View Avenue project. A second. >> Motion made second. All in favor say I. I. >> I. >> All right. That motion carries. Now I need a motion to open back up the Bloom Edition area public hearing. >> I'll move to open up the public hearing. Reopen the public hearing for the Bloom Edition area 2025-4 Street improvement project. >> A second. >> Motion made second. All in favor say I. >> All opposed. All right. Then the first item is the adopt the resolution ordering improvements. I'll make a motion to adopt a resolution ordering improvements for the Bloom Edition area 2025-4 street street improvement project to include Saxony uh court. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. [clears throat] >> Uh then a motion on the prep uh plans and specs. I'll make a motion to adopt a resolution ordering preparation of plans and specifications for the Bloom Edition area 2025-4 street improvement project including Sax City Court. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> All right. We have a plan. I'm I'm sorry if you live on the one [clears throat] we delayed for a year, but uh we can only spend so much of your money. [laughter] >> All right. We're going to move on. Uh item >> eight on our agenda is the ICE presence in Minnesota. >> Mr. Chair, if I may for you to take into consideration, we do have a group here that wants to make that wanted to speak at open time and it's getting awfully late. I'm wondering if we could fit them in. It's Katie Ingman's group that wanted to say something here. >> All right. >> Because I >> You want to give us an overview here first or not? >> Actually, Katie would No. Okay. We're just they just kind of want to make a statement on behalf of their group that's uh advocating for tobaccof free and drug free. >> I say what you speak up >> to free and drug free advocacy for that. Correct. Sorry. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. I got a cold. >> That's what I'm here for. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we've moved this to open time, right? >> If if we've got the time. I >> 5 10 minutes. Katie, is that good or >> three? Okay, [laughter] [snorts] come on up. >> Lily D Wit, 1296 Helper Way. I'm Clara Cely at 5344 East Street and we are both seniors at White Beer Lake Area High School and residents of Whitebear Township. We are here on behalf of the Association for Non-Smokers Ramsey County Student Action Team. We are a passionate group of high school students from around the Ramsey County area who are committed to stopping big tobacco. In 2025, we are named as the group winners of the Youth Advocates of the Year Award from Campaign for Tobaccofree Kids, a national organization. We're here to ask you to consider one of the following or all. Ending the sale of flavored tobacco products and the redemption of discounts, coupons, and bogo. and set a minimum price and cap the total number of licensed tobacco retailers. Flavored commercial tobacco products, including vapes, cigarettes, and pouches, are all too often in the hands of my peers and friends. The enticing flavors of these products make them appealing to youth who are more susceptible to nicotine addiction as our brains are not fully developed. We recognize that it's not our peers fault for this addiction, but the fault of an industry that markets these products using deceptive, malicious, and targeted tactics, making these products just an accessory. A lot of the blame tends to go to the user or the people buying the product for them. Does not matter how they got these products, they did. And that blames on the tobacco industry. Restricting what is on the shelves will reduce the amount of people using. If we can reduce the appeal that these flavor products have would be one great step in prevention. In addition, if you know where Cup and Cone is, there's a tobacco and vape shop only a few doors down. When our peers and even younger middle school students are hanging out after school, there's a good chance that they would see the bright lights and colors of the shop and start to wonder what's inside. That is why it's essential that we can stop the cycle of addiction before it starts by restricting access in our township. It is not about the profit or businesses but about the people and the lives that commercial tobacco industry is taking. We all pay the price for commercial tobacco addiction. A report from Blue Cross Blue Shield of Minnesota estimates that every motan pays almost $900 in healthcare related costs just to due to smoking. Remember our generation isn't just smoking. We're vaping too. This is in addition to the environmental impacts that vapes have. They're not disposable as marketed. They're hazardous waste and so expensive to safe safely dispose of. By allowing the continued sale of these products, the cycle of harm is perpetuated and lives continue to be lost, especially in our community. That that $900 could be put towards our streets. Instead, they're supporting [snorts] a multi multi-billion dollar industry. Last year, around this same time, we did a lot of work in the city of Vadness Heights. The city council unanimously agreed to end the sale of flavored commercial tobacco products and kept retail tobacco licenses at six. This new ordinance went into effect January 1st, 2026. In the coming years, we know this will reduce the access of commercial tobacco products to youth in our community. As a township is growing, we have an opportunity to determine what we want here and what will make the township a great place to live and play. Tobacco stores do not fit in here. We have done similar work in St. Anthony Village in New Brighton and we hope that Wiper Township will join us in the fight against big tobacco. Thank you for your time and consideration. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Well, on behalf of the board, we commend you for taking the initiative. >> Yes. >> Chad, do you have any uh legal response to that? I mean, first of all, I think it's a good idea, but that's just my own personal opinion. Before you can act on this, I'd have to double check the laws to make sure you you have the authority to do so. The problem is this. You have to keep in mind is that you talked about Vades Heights and St. Anthony and New Brighton. They're statutory cities. We're a township. The rules and powers of a township are different. And so, as the board has found out on more than one occasion, what covers cities doesn't necessarily cover township. So before the board can consider it, I'd have to make sure that what you're asking, we have the power to do. So I if I could get a copy of what you're proposing, especially like the Vadest Heights ordinance, I'd appreciate that. Then I can verify that the town has authority to do take those acts. But that's my only comment on that. >> Comments, questions? >> No, I think it's a great idea, Steve. >> I think it's a great idea. Just >> Come on. I know you chew. [laughter] I Yeah, I try to chew my food regularly, not necessarily anything else. I I think it's great. I'd like to see more. >> All right. Yeah. So, if we can get that information to staff, we'll definitely look into that. >> Katie will get it to me. >> All right. >> Thanks, folks. >> Thank you. >> All right. You want to go back to this? Uh >> yeah, why don't you ask if anybody else has open time statements and we'll just have that. >> All right. Yeah. So, you just going to table this or what? No, no, I think that's going to be an extensive conversation and folks are waiting around that would like to go. >> The present is be you're taking under advisement to for further consideration. All right. >> Because there's nothing to adopt at this point in time. >> All right. So, is there any other open time comments? >> Hearing none. [snorts] >> Good. Thanks. Now, if you want to go back to uh [sighs] 8A, feel free, Mr. Chair. Well, you um actually we had a resident respond to the ICE operations in the state of Minnesota. And I don't know, Chad, did you have a chance to look at that there? >> I read it. I read as part of the packet, but we've also been dealing with this uh for some of our municipal clients. [snorts] And here is the big here's one of the big issues is if the question is can the township deny ICE access to public spaces? No, they can't. ICE has as much right as anyone else to access public space. Now, here's the question, though. is there's accessing public space for example for the sole purpose of just parking there. The question is can they use can they use uh public space located in the township for the purpose of organizing raids. That is an open question and there's not it's not clear. The problem naturally is the fact that we are dealing with federal preeemption that fed the federal laws and rules preempt any if they if the federal laws occupy the field they preempt any action on the state and local level and in reviewing this preparing for this I reviewed the president's [clears throat] executive order dated April 28 2025 and he's making it pretty clear that uh they expect this to be uh that that ICE has the ability to use these areas. Now again right now in Minnesota that's being challenged. So there's no clear-cut answer other than the fact that if ICE wants to enter a public space they have the right to do so and we can't stop it. There's another issue too though and that is issue of law enforcement being involved in ICE operations. Since we only have a contract with the sheriff's office, the Gramps County Sheriff, we don't control how the sheriff conducts their their operations. So, we have absolutely no say whatsoever in whether or not the sheriff has a sheriff will or will not cooperate with ICE. that's strictly up to them. >> So, I I think I sent you all out the statement that the sheriff's office prepared for PR. But, um, basically what it comes down to is it's just kind of a synopsis of what Chad just shared with the board. Number one, um, ICE is here under federal mandate and is legally able to operate within any municipality or township in the state. Right. >> That's correct. Um, and then the other side of it is too from the sheriff's office department is that the sheriff's office department for Ramsey County will not intervene unless there is a direct and immediate threat to public safety. Now, that can be interpreted in a hundred different ways. >> Well, especially because that would be determined on a 911 call. >> So, it's now they have to decipher every call that comes in is if they're going to respond or not. >> Yep. And and again, that's strictly up to the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office how they respond. We have no control over that whatsoever. >> I think that statement is going to be massaged over however long uh ICE is present in the state. Well, every one of us board members uh when we were elected, we we took an oath to defend the Constitution United States, which means we have to follow town laws, county laws, state laws, federal laws. This is this board doesn't I don't at least my opinion, I don't want to be political about this. I mean, whether what side you're on or if you're in a neutral side, all we want is our residents to just stay calm and safe. But this this gets us into the weeds, I believe, if we're if we're going to try to especially if there's outstanding litigation, >> and there is this the state has started, you know, has is litigating this issue right now in federal court. We'll have to see how that turns out. >> How long will it take? >> Oh jeez, who knows? I will I know this that they um that there was an injunction issued over the or on Sunday enjoining ICE from what exactly did they enjoin um [clears throat] >> is that the peaceful protest one >> I believe that's yeah they enjoin them from um from interfering with peaceful protest protest >> yes >> thank you >> all right Steve questions >> no I 100% agree with what you you made the statement about the oath that we took I don't want to I don't want to uh go the political side and say we are going to facilitate wherever possible ICE activities and and encourage them. That's not what we're about. We've tried to stay neutral of this. They have to do what the law says and if if they have preemptive rights as you indicated basically we're I'm okay [clears throat] with that. The the comment that I will make though is we we need to respond to the citizen that's that categorically says that they don't want as a fellowship resident to have ice on any township property. So I mean I want to make sure that we do respond >> and the response is the town cannot forbid ice >> ice. [snorts] >> So I'd like being on publicity to respond to that. But so that's my comment. I agree with what you said, Ed. >> And just so we're clear that this issue has been talked about among a lot of municipalities, especially League of Minnesota cities. Just to inter so you understand the League of Minnesota Cities is, it's um an organization, nonprofit organization that assists cities. And by the way, the township, even though it's a township, is a member of the League of Minnesota Cities. It assists the cities and the township in how to interpret the rules and that there's been a lot of discussion on this and they've the interpretation is and I have to agree with it that municipalities cannot forbid ICE personnel from entering public space. Period. >> All right. So, you'll respond to the the lady spent out the email. >> Yes. and Beth give her comments. Did you have anything you guys want to say? >> I just find it a sad situation that this is happening in Minnesota. >> I agree. >> I concur. To to kind of muddy the waters a little bit, but I has well this is it could come up. So I wanted to get this out right now. >> In the event there is a private event occurring on public space. For example, if someone has some organization or party has leased a pavilion in a park, that now becomes private space, in which case ICE cannot enter it without a without a um a warrant. But that's only if it's a private event which the town has no control over. >> Duly noted. >> All right, that concludes >> birthday party should happen. >> Yeah, exactly. You have a birthday party out there. >> If you leased if you leased a pavilion for the purpose of conducting a birthday party, it's a private event controlled by private individuals. ICE could not enter that pavilion without a warrant without a warrant. >> Even though it's on public property. All right, that concludes our agenda. Um, we do have a closed session with our attorney, so we're going to have to ask everyone to leave. [laughter] >> Thank you for coming. >> Thank you all. Thank you all for coming. >> Especially the patients. >> I'll get after you. >> Yeah. >> Quick. Oh, you have something you need signed. He He's busy. So I can I can take care. She can also sign. So it's been driving us. >> Looks like there's only one tonight. >> Oh, >> I have three pruda. >> One thing I think you all need is louder than the speakers. >> You want us to yell? >> Well, I hear them. >> Hi. How you doing? >> I got them turned up all the way. Oh yeah, sure. How you doing? [clears throat] >> That's all you need. >> You got one, too. >> Sorry. That's my mobile. >> Okay. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. The purpose of the close session is to discuss um the ongoing litigation regarding [laughter] the White Bear Lake fire service contract among other that's one. The other is um anybody else? >> You probably are more than aware of the fact that the town and the land folks are negotiating a joint powers agreement over water. >> So just your mobile >> um >> got it. >> A suit and I want to make clear the suit has not been threatened by the city of North Oaks. >> Relationships there are quite quite good. >> It's a third party private third party and on that basis we're closing deal with that. So yeah, >> I don't need to go into detail or anything, but just wanted to >> We actually can't hang tough >> next year. You're back on the board. [laughter] >> I was going to Can we smoke that road? Can we smoke like you? >> Do I look like an engineer? [laughter] >> I'm just because everybody's concerned about the water. Tell Larry, he'll you know, he's got to do it for you. >> It will be thoroughly addressed when plans and specs come. >> Yeah, believe me. Part of the problem that caused this, the garbage truck and the um plow truck, they all turn around down because >> that's why I asked them what's the minimum we need down there for them to function. >> We need to call this, but it would be really sweet if we could have Ramsey County go up and down that street a day. >> You talking about the sheriff's department? >> Sheriff. Yeah, whatever. have the sheriff because >> we got to talk about >> I just sent you over >> and drugs >> so aggravating department two people >> get out get out your phones just start taking pictures >> somebody behind my down >> peopleind Yeah. People had gone over to cottage and caught them. >> Oh, >> having the police department come down to the end of the street from time to [clears throat] time people walk their dogs. >> We will bring it up to our public safety commission because a usually deals directly with the sheriff's department. >> Oh, thanks. [laughter] >> You're welcome. She sits on the public safety. >> How nice. [laughter] Yeah. Come see us. >> I don't sit in any of those. >> No, you were in scouts, right? >> I was. [laughter] Yes. My son Matthew and I are both Eagle Scouts. >> Yeah. >> You bet. >> I want to see. >> He lives on the corner. >> Yeah. I'm just going to Okay. Yeah. >> All right. We got to get back to work. Danny, thanks. >> We'll be here all night. >> Danny, see you, [laughter] Danny. >> Hey, but I am going to >> Are you >> good for you? >> Get sunburned. >> Oh, jeez. I work in I work in base camp in commissary. >> Oh, cool. >> We get we get to go back country. >> Oh, back country. Well, very nice. Wonderful visit. That's a place to go. Yep. >> Thanks, guys. Good to talk to you. Take care. >> I'm shutting my computer down. I don't need it for this. >> We're doing the close session chithat, right? You want to let uh >> you need session, right? >> Do you have a meet? >> Uh we're going into close session for >> two things. >> Uh yeah, two things. The North Oaks JPA and the City of White Fair Lake fire contract. >> Correct. >> Second. >> All in favor? Bye. >> Bye. It threatened litigation from a third party involving the North Oaks. >> I take my shoes. >> JPA, please stop. >> They call me Lucky. [laughter] >> I had two cars. one had like, you know, missing. >> Hi, Steve. >> Um, we're coming out of closed session where we discussed a third party potential litigation as it relates to our our North Oaks JPA and the second part was to deal with the ongoing litigation with the White Bear Lake Fire Department contract. >> Second buying job. >> All in favor? I >> All right. All I need is a motion to receive agenda material and supplements. >> So moved. >> Second. All in favor? I >> need a motion to adjourn at 9:53. >> So moved. Second. >> By the way, the woman that was sitting in the front row with the glasses, she's the new reporter. >> Yep. Newspaper. >> Oh boy. >> Laptop. >> That's okay. We'll see. >> Yeah, we made it extremely clear to her that the any lit any involvement, the litigation regarding the North Oaks JPA was not with the city. >> And I think we just caught it again. [laughter] >> Let's see. Okay. I'm a tobacco. We're closed, Lisa. >> And I hate the