UAL meeting. I am Patrick Kristofferson. I am the town clerk treasurer. Uh this meeting is being cablecast live on YouTube and is available there for anyone to view. Uh tonight's meeting is not a town board meeting, but a meeting of the people. So, we've accomplished that already. Town board staff and town consultants are present as a resource up here for you. Uh the main part of the presentation is the proposed uh preliminary tax levy for 2027. When it comes to a vote, only town residents have the privilege of voting. And since this meeting is not a town board meeting, uh the meeting needs to be run by a moderator. So, at this time, I will request candidates who are interested in moderating this evening's meeting. Bob Keras, our lucky winner yet again. >> Can I get a motion uh to elect Bob Kermas as our MC this evening? >> Can I get a second? >> All in favor? >> I read them on week, Bob. >> Thanks, man. >> Got it. >> Another one of those landslides. It's always fun to see. Okay. Uh if you haven't gotten agenda yet, there are a pile of them back here next to the door, right next to where you all signed in. Okay. So to get the meeting started, we'll uh start with using modified form of Robert's rules of order for meeting procedures and uh uh activities. If there's any questions about Robert's rules during the meeting, the town attorney is here and he's also the parliamentarian for this meeting. So if any technical or legal issues come up uh regarding the how we're handling handling the meeting, he's the guy that that we'll talk to. Uh if you do have any questions or comments during the proceedings, we do ask that you identify yourself with your name and address. And with that, the first action item on the agenda is to approve the annual meeting agenda. This chubby here. So, is there a motion to that effect? >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Motion's made and seconded. If there's no discussion, those in favor of approving the meeting agenda, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay, we have a meeting agenda. Attached in the packet is the uh meeting minutes from the uh 2025 annual meeting. Assuming we have had a chance to go through that or at least cruise through the contents. Is there a motion to approve those meeting minutes? >> Is there a second? >> Motion's made and seconded. There's no discussion. Those in favor of approving those meeting minutes, please say I. >> I. >> That. Motion passes. Well, sometimes we have officials attending. I don't think we have anybody. >> Oh, come on up. >> Good. Thank you. We have one then. Hello. Um, my name is Tara Jubbins Singh and I'm the Ramsey County Commissioner that represents our district and um, I'm just really glad to see so many people out. Um, I see some some familiar faces and I know that this is an engaged group of citizens. So, it's it's really good to see this happening. I just want to say from the county a couple of things that'll be helpful for you all to know. One of the things um, that we've been working on lately is the idea of making sure that we remain open and accessible. um during the um disruption that happened during Operation Metro Surge. So, I I have some information of service guides and things like that that I'll put on the back table that just reminds folks how they can get a hold of the county services should they need them and they can access that uh online or via phone. You don't have to come into any of our service centers, but those are available too. Uh and then also to let you know that you'll be getting your because you're talking about uh uh property stuff or um tax levies and things like that today. just to let you know that this is the season when you will be getting your tax assessed value um coming into your mailboxes and this spring is the time if you have questions about the value that your property has been assessed, it's the springtime where you want to go ahead and and and inquire about getting that reviewed. So, our open book meeting is on I think a early April. Um, and then there's also a way and we can we can get you the information if you want if there is a question about your assessing. Um, this is the time to do it. Uh, I also want to say that in this morning's meeting, we were able to pass some mitigation efforts around um, property taxes because of Operation Metro Surge, we realize that some businesses may have had some slower foot traffic, some landlords may have had some renters have some back stuff, and you as somebody else just might have had a harder time keeping up on things. So, there is a form if you want to that's going to be um on on the website as well that allows for a twomonth um pause on your first round of property taxes. So, without any fees or anything. So, if you feel as if you have a reason that you'd like to have a little bit of extra time to catch up, it'll all hold it'll all hold um the same amount of taxes, but it'll give a couple of months break for folks who might need to catch up. So, there's a form that you apply for that. So, I just wanted to make that announcement. And then um the only other things that I'd like to say is that we've been working really hard. I was just in Washington DC and then at the state capital um lobbying on your behalf with some of the changes that have been happening in our health and human services um uh legislation and policy at the federal level. Um I will say unfortunately uh the HR1 um the big health and human services bill was the largest cost shift um from the federal government down into the local government. This is this is a big deal. Um there was they've added twice as much administrative and then cut the co the the funding to that in half. And so what that means is that right now that ends up being a burden on property taxes. So we're doing the best we can to mitigate that at the federal level. We're doing the best we can to mitigate mitigate that at the state level. and we're doing our best to work internally to make sure that we're operating as efficiently as we can and to find other revenue sources to to mitigate those harms. But um if you have any questions, do feel free to reach out to my office at any time. And also just to know that um I also am somebody who can help advocate at any level. So if you have a question or concern and you're not sure is this a city issue or a township issue, is this a county issue or state issue, we are your advocate. So, please do reach out and then we'll try to make sure you get um connected to the right level of government. So, good to see you all tonight. >> Thank you. Uh have I overlooked anybody else? Uh I understand that u Julie Blaha, the state auditor, is planning on coming out here later on this evening. She has some kind of a meeting at the cap. So, uh, uh, her office sent a memo here with some of her credentials. I'll just cruise through that for you. So, if she doesn't make it, you'll know a little bit more about Julie Blaha. She's a 19th state auditor. Uh, she's been in that position since January of 2019. Uh, she has a commitment. She >> has an aid here that could speak. >> Are you Julie's aid? >> Yeah, I'm one of them. You can do this. >> We can give the speech together if you want. >> I'm Burke. I work better than that. >> This is actually the second time I've given a township meeting speech on Julie's behalf. Uh she is at a pension committee hearing right now. Uh so she might not be able to make it, but uh we always go to township Tuesday. Our office audits and supports local government units like townships. So, if you don't follow the OSA weekly update, you can sign up to that to get updates on township news that our office puts out. And I'll echo the commissioner statements. We're here to support you guys. So, reach out with any concerns and we're here to advocate for you. So, thanks. Happy Township Tuesday. Thank you for those comments. All right. The main item on the agenda tonight is to consider the 2027 preliminary tax levy in the town finance officer Tom Kelly will go through that for us. Okay, let me shift gears here. All right, where did my mouse go? There it is. getting our budget document completed and put out on the website. I hope to have that in the next few weeks out there. Um these are three awards that we have received uh currently or in the past from uh the government finance officers association. Uh the white one uh is for the popular report that we put out uh summarizing our audit uh annual financial report. Uh the middle one uh is uh the for the uh budget ward and then the uh other uh far one is for our annual audit report uh from GFOA. Uh the proposed 2027 preliminary levy uh is our worst case scenario. uh at this point uh we don't know a lot of the final numbers uh and so we have to use conservative revenue estimates and then uh kind of what we think would be our worst case on the expenditure side. Uh once the preliminary levy is approved tonight uh it can be uh lowered as we go through our budget process but we cannot exceed whatever is approved tonight and uh it generally is lowered uh by the time we get to September when we have to certify uh the preliminary levy and then it's even lowered uh further by the time we get to uh December when we have our budget meeting. Uh the 2027 preliminary uh property tax levy will be approved by the town board on September 21st of this year and then we have to have it to Ramsey County by uh the end of September. uh that whatever we send to the county uh at in September uh that will be used uh in the tax notices that you receive in November with the uh estimate of your property tax uh for the next year and also notify you of the hearing dates for not only the township but the county and the school district. As I said, our uh preliminary levy that's approved tonight, by the time we get to uh December, uh we are usually lower. Uh from this graph, you can see since 2015, that has been the case. Uh and it was in 20 uh 26. Uh so uh to give you an idea in 2026 uh the preliminary levy uh was 7,3700,500 and when uh in December uh what was approved was 6,647,187. So, uh, we expect that to be the same with our 2027 cuz, as I said, this is our worst case scenario. Right now, uh, the proposed 2027 uh, preliminary property tax levy is proposed at $8,245,000. Uh, that is a increase of almost 13% from the 2026 preliminary levy. And we get arrived at that uh basically taking the 2026 budget amounts and then taking a look at what we spent in 2024, 2025 and what we received in revenues for those two years and kind of made uh various uh adjustments uh based on on those actual uh numbers. There are some things that were new either in 2026 or are going to be new uh in 2027. Uh the the first part uh I call them unfunded mandates. But uh all the cities uh the township included uh we have to begin the process of updating our comprehensive uh plan. Uh that process will take place uh start in 2026, but we'll go into 2027 and probably even into 2028. Uh but that adds about 45,000 to our budget. Uh and then uh for starting in 2026, there was a new uh state uh leave that is funded partially by the township and partially by the employees. uh and that added uh just over $50,000 to our our budget and every employer has to pay that uh tax. So, it's not something just new to the the cities and the township. Uh revenue changes that we used for our 2027 uh budget. Uh rental licenses and animal licenses, we collect those in even year. Uh we're planning on fewer new construction per permits as we're almost built out. And then uh the board uh this year did eliminate uh contractor licenses since uh the state licensed contractors. Uh so it was just a duplication and something that we really didn't uh needed to do. So overall our permits and licenses are going to decrease about $32,000. the state aids and county aids that the township receives. Uh we left at our 2026 amounts. Uh again, it's one of those things that it's too early in the budget process to know uh what we'll receive. Of course, with state, uh there isn't a whole lot there. Uh in 2026, uh we did uh our state aid was cut all the way down to $10. So, we get $10 from the state, but we do receive some other county aids. Uh, fiscal disparities. I did increase $3,539 to $455,000 for 2027. Uh, I'm expecting a little bit larger increase than that, but just to be safe, I I increased it just a little bit. On the expenditure side, right now I do have a wage increase at 3 and a half% uh starting at January 1st. Uh our union contract does expire at the end of this year. Uh so we'll be negotiating a new union contract uh this summer uh fall uh to get uh what our wage increases will be for the next few years. summer help uh budget. Again, uh we increase it every year and then as we get through our budget process, we uh decrease it a little bit depending on uh needs and what uh uh what staff we have available and so forth, but we did increase that to help with street and park maintenance, uh which is mainly what the the summer help uh provides. health insurance. Again, uh I have a 15% increase, uh which is typical for this time of the year. Uh the last few years, we haven't seen uh increases quite to that amount, but just to be safe, uh we put it in at 15%. Our our uh transfers for uh park improvements and seal coat, I increased each of those 25,000. So, the park uh improvements uh we're transferring 400,000 to those uh for future park improvements. And then uh for our seal coat, uh it's will be 175,000. And that's based on our 10-year capital improvement plan. Our sheriff's contract, which includes both uh patrol and dispatch, uh I've increased 20% uh to 1,959,000. Uh the sheriff's contract usually comes in more closer to between uh eight to 5%. Uh but uh in the last few years it seems like it's been going up a little bit more uh due to some uh new labor contracts uh with the sheriff's department. Fire budget I've increased 15 uh.27% to 7%. Uh, and the budget does still include the 185,000 for the debt service on their new facility. Um, the fire budget typically comes in right around uh 10 to 12% uh although we've had a couple of years where they were up over 20%. Uh overall our public safety budget uh for the preliminary levy has increased just over 17%. Our 2027 property tax preliminary levy does include a debt levy of 1,120,000 to repay uh the debt that we've been issuing for paying for our road improvement projects. uh that is an increase of 450,000. It includes the uh 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2025 uh bonds that we've already issued uh for past projects. And it anticipates us issuing a 2026 B uh bond for our 2026 road improvement projects. And that one I've estimated at uh just under $300,000 for the 2027 bond payment. Uh the others uh are based on the bond uh repayment schedule. And right now the township does uh receive a plus rating from S&P and a double A1 from Moody's. Uh both those are uh one step below a trip AAA. Um comparing our preliminary budget to last year's preliminary budget and final uh budget numbers, you can see uh last year we had a preliminary uh operating levy of 6,156 and uh we're this year we're proposing it at uh 6,670,000. uh fiscal disparities for the preliminary in 26 was 437,450 and we are now proposing uh 455. We'll get the actual number uh sometime uh probably in uh September. Uh we get those numbers from Ramsey County who gets them from Anoka County. Um and then you can see the various uh bonds uh their their repayment schedule that we proposed. Uh the hope there is that we'll have uh some uh excess interest earnings and so forth that we can apply against those levies so we can lower those levies. But overall you can see in 2026 we had a preliminary tax levy of 7,37,500 and uh right now we have uh the levy proposed at 8,245,000. So, if the town's tax capacity remained at uh just under 23 million uh dollar, which is what our 2026 tax capacity is, the town would have a tax rate of 34307%. Uh our preliminary proposed tax rate in 2026 was 31 uh 706. So, if your market value does not change, uh you would still see a tax increase based on that tax rate increase of anywhere between uh $14 and $32 per month uh based on home valued at 200 about $268,000 and up to 53600,000. Again, as I said, the township can lower the levy during the budget process, but we cannot exceed uh whatever the preliminary levy amount approved tonight is. And so, again, this is our worst case scenario. Um and then um in the past uh to help lower the levy, the township has received a score grant which offsets our garbage and recycling. Uh we received about uh 28,000 last year uh for that grant. Uh we've also applied for in the past and received grants to offset some of the cost to remove trees affected by the Admiral Ashbore. And then this doesn't affect the tax levy, but it does affect uh water uh rates and sewer rates. We have in the past received a water efficiency grant from the Metropolitan Council uh just over uh $83,000 uh which when uh residents uh purchased uh uh toilets or appliances or irrigation systems that reduce uh water usage. if they meet certain criteria, uh they could apply to the township, receive uh basically a rebate, if you will, uh on those appliances. We've also received just over 446,000 uh the last few years in a grant. They're called grants, but it's uh money uh for the water contamination um on PAS. And then uh we received an infiltration grant uh from the metropolitan uh council uh to help uh reduce inf infiltration into our sanitary sewer system of clean water. Uh so we've televised some uh sewer lines in the past and reigned them. And then uh last year we received a grant that would pay for residents to have their uh mains from the road to into their house televised and then uh relined if there were issues and uh they could apply to the township and receive uh partial funding uh for the cost of that. And so that was taken care of in that grant. All in the hope of reducing the amount of flows we send to uh the Metropolitan Council for sewer uh treatment uh which would then reduce our sewer costs to the Metropolitan Council. Other items that we expect to change, and when I say change, I hope uh lower uh the budget uh before prior to getting to the final levy is we will get our final uh budget cost for both police and fire uh police from Ramsey County and the fire from uh the city of White Bear Lake. Uh we'll have a better idea what personnel costs are going to be both on uh wages uh and benefits. And then we will get the actual budget costs uh from other agencies that we help fund uh or uh we use to pro receive services from such as it uh the watershed districts uh uh northeast family services and a there's a few others in there. And then as I said uh the debt levy will know uh what we'll need to actually levy uh for those uh based on funds that may be available uh from other sources such as interest earnings uh on the funds uh or if we get more prepayments and stuff that we can use to actually reduce uh the debt levy. And then we'll uh also get from Ramsey County uh the amount of fiscal disparities that the township will actually receive and then uh we'll get updated market value uh numbers uh from Ramsey County. Overall, uh right now, as I said, uh we're proposing a preliminary property tax levy of $8,245,000. And uh again, whatever is approved tonight, uh we can always lower uh but we can't go above that. So, with that, I will take any questions that you may have. And if you do have a question, >> we ask that you go up to the microphone so the people on watching on TV and on uh the internet can hear you. And again, state your name and your address. >> Hi, I'm Cheryl Smith, 5713 Jenny Lane. I just have a couple questions. When you mentioned comprehensive plan update, said it was going to start this year may continue to 2028. Is the 45,000 for each of those years or a total number? >> Uh that is just for 2027. Uh the last time we had the comprehensive plan updated uh we spent uh with consultants and other things to get it done. We spent again it was over 2 three years but we spent about $96,000 on it. And at that time we had an in-house planner that did a lot of the work too. So um this when he retired a few years ago, we didn't replace him and we have an outside consultant that we're now using for planning. So I'm hoping it's still going to come in cuz we don't have to adjust as much uh on the comprehensive plan or we shouldn't have to uh to update it. But got to be safe. >> Oh yeah, definitely. I was just wondering when you said it was several years. Um, other question, union contract, the employees are public works. Are there other employees of the township that are under a >> No. Uh, public works is, uh, the only ones that are on under a union contract. for uh the local 49ers and because of pay equity and laws and so forth, uh it's been the practice of the township to whatever the union settles for for annual colas to give that to the office staff so that we stay compliant with our pay equity laws. >> Great. Okay. And the last question I have is the sheriff's contract that is a one-year contract, right? done every year? >> Uh, no. It's the the increase is built into I think we're on a fiveyear. Yeah. So, each year if there's a there's an increase in expenditures, it's presented to our county or community group for discussion. >> So, you have a five-year contract, but every year they change the amount that it goes up. >> Is there any negotiation on that kind of contract? I mean, >> the have a contract and say, "But we'll increase it." Yeah, >> the the the there's seven communities that are six communities that contract with Ramsey County and uh they have representatives that uh Pat meets with them every single month uh for either a morning or an afternoon and uh for probably half those meetings it's budget discussions. Last year we ended up through discussion um >> use the mic. >> I'm sorry. >> The the initial increase to us was was cut in half through negotiations. So I'm hoping what Tom is putting up there is worst case scenario and and in fact >> I'm pretty sure it's the worst case scenario. So >> all right. Well, thanks. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? Good evening. Uh, Andrew Maryama, 5214 Ander Lee Lane. C, could you go into a little bit more the disparities? What What I'm not familiar with that term, so >> uh, yes and no I can. Uh, fiscal disparities is a law that has been on the books for I think since about 1972, maybe, maybe even 68. It's been there forever, but it it is a uh revenue sharing uh property tax on commercial uh industrial property. That a portion of all commercial and industrial property values goes into the fiscal disparities pool and then it there's a formula that says how much of it you get back. And what it was attempted to do when it was originally uh the law was originally passed uh there was all this commercial development along 494 uh in Bloomington, Richfield uh that area and uh the people in the north metro were getting kind of slammed with property taxes and stuff. And so they really pushed for this fiscal disparities law which would take some of that value from those properties and shift it and give it to them. So it's money that we get like I say we we contribute some of our commercial value so we lose some of that property tax but then we get back about 455,000. >> So that that is money coming in. It's not >> that is money coming in. >> Oh, all right. because it looked like it was a a going out thing. Okay. So, so fiscal disparities in that chart is is a plus. >> Yes, that's a revenue. What it does is it low it lowers our overall property tax levy. >> Okay. Oh, awesome. >> Um, >> it is awesome. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> it's a confusing lawn and I'll be honest with you. People ask me all the time to explain it and I get just confused trying to explain it and >> Yeah. >> But but that's so that's and is that that's the source of other than property taxes. That's all the tax money that the township uses. It comes from the disparities. >> Uh we get uh revenues from other uh revenue sources that we have. uh such as interest earnings, uh licenses, uh permits, um like I say, some grants, some county aids, uh and all of those set off our expenditures, but at the end, but I hope to have that one out there by the end of March. >> And is that posted on the website or? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Hi, my name is Amy Rogers. I live at 1279 Bibo Road. Um, there's been a lot of talk about the budget document. Um, Tom, I spoke to you yesterday. So, the 2026 budget was adopted in December 2025. We're now a quarter into the year in 2026 and those details aren't available to us. That's really important to us for the township people to make an informed decision to see the details and the breakdown of how things are being spent. And the higher spending directly increases the tax levy that you're asking us to pay. So, it feels nontransparent and like we're lacking a lot of information in order to be able to approve a tax levy increase today. >> Yep. I I I apologize. I I'm trying to get it out there as quickly as I can. Um, we've had some issues with our audit. Um, the 2024 audit should have been done a long time ago. It's still being worked on. Um, the budget is just another one of those things that I've got to get done and like I say, I hope to have it done in the next month or so and uh get it out there cuz I really need to get going on other things too. >> Right. Again, it just affects our decision making. >> No, I agree. >> And there is a a portion of the website that's dedicated to reporting on budgets, reports, and fees. >> Um, there's a list of five reports. The first one is the quarterly financial reports which was last published in 2023. The comprehensive annual financial reports last published in 2023. The popular annual financial reports last published in 2022. The annual budget uh the most recent one published is for 2025 which was adopted by the committee in 2024. and the capital improvement plan appears to be the only document that was updated for 2026. >> So my question to you is it sounds like my question for you is what needs to be done in order to assist you in facilitating getting these reports done and posted? >> Yeah. Uh today I met with the auditors uh my finance manager and myself Haley is here. We met with them uh to get them some fixed asset reports that we had sent them in a different format than what they wanted. So, they came in to make sure they could get the right ones. She told me fixed assets is the last thing they're working on and that they hope to have that done uh in the next week or so and to the head guy to review the report and have our report done by the end of the month uh beginning of next month and that would be the 2024 audit which would give us then time to start on our 2025 audit. it. Um, so it's just a matter of getting all caught up. Part of the process that we got so far behind on is we started a a computer conversion to new software uh townshipwide. It wasn't just the finance end of it. It was the permitting part, uh, licensing, um, the whole shebang. And then our two key staff members that were heading that up retired. Uh we were expecting one, the other one we were not expecting. Um and so a lot of this and then trying to train new staff and then we had an issue with one of the staff members. So it didn't really work out. We changed another one train those. So we're slowly getting there. Uh, it just all takes time. >> I understand. Um, I would like to find some place in the budget where we can cut costs and find a way to hire outside help if needed. Um, outside audit, outside or hire another person to assist you if that's what you need. I think again it's really important that these budget documents are updated and that we catch up to 2026 and we aren't working from three years back to catch up. So um tell us what we can do to help you and ultimately to help everybody township be informed. >> Right now I think the best thing I we can ask for is just a little patience. We're real close I think. Wouldn't you say Haley? Yeah. the learning curve. I'm still learning, so please be patient with me, I guess. >> Ultimately, I know there's going to be a lot more questions asked, but I'm proposing a levy freeze. Um, because we don't have the information that we need to be able to analyze the budget and where the money is going, how it's being spent, and again, that those budget increases in the amount affect directly what the tax levy is. >> Yeah. And like I say, this is our worst case scenario. We can as we go through our budget process, we will actually be reducing as we get to know more and more of these numbers and so forth. And then as we actually see uh what our expenditures are, not only this year, but as we finalize the 2025 numbers and so forth. see if there's areas where we've been budgeting more than what we actually need. Um, we I already know that um Ramsey County, who does our elections, uh, they've already sent out a an email saying that we need all new election equipment and that they're expecting or that we should expect about a 12% increase in our election costs for next year. Um, so I've got that built into there and stuff, but at the same time, uh, this is the worst case scenario. It's something that should be cut in September and then further cut by the time we get here in December when we're presenting our final one. And I guarantee you by December and even September, those documents will be out there. >> Okay. Um I have a question about the 2026 capital improvement plan. >> Um the capital improvement plan my understanding is like a projection from 2026 for the n years how funds might be spent. Um the docu or the numbers that are uh in the 2026 rankings are have those been approved as part of the budget by the board? the 2026 uh items are in the 2026 budget >> that has been approved. >> Yes. But that doesn't mean that they're going to be purchased. It still has to go through the bid process and then uh the town board still it gets presented to the town board and then they either give approval or denial of it. So just because it's in the plan and it's in our 2026 budget doesn't mean it's going to get purchased or there if it's an improvement, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get improved. the items that are listed in 2027 and beyond, they're just there as kind of like, hey, this is what we think we're going to need in those years. And as we start our 2027 budget process, those numbers can be moved or changed or they can be pushed back further years. If you know, if a piece of equipment is there because they thought it was going to wear out in 2027, but it's actually staying together pretty good, they can push it out to 2028 or what have you. So those items are there more as a placeholder or as a hey this is coming up type thing but they're not into the budget or approved into the budget. >> So has the board everything that's listed in the 20 for 2026 has the board um looked at these and approved that projected cost? >> Yes. >> Okay. um one of >> but again the the projects or the equipment themselves have not been >> okay so it's a >> placeholder >> it's a placeholder for a maximum anticipated cost >> for 2026 >> if they even decide to do it this year >> okay like the road projects that are listed there uh the town engineer came back and said hey the projects that we have are coming in quite quite a bit higher than what we anticipated and the board has already decided to to go forward with two of the the road projects and to push the third one out further because just because of the cost. >> So by reducing the 2026 costs, we would ultimately see a reduction in the proposed tax levy amount. >> Um yes and no. Uh most of the stuff in the capital improvement plan are funded through other funds. Um some of it does come in like park improvements. A lot of that comes in through a transfer from the general fund into the park improvement fund. um those funds build up uh hopefully and then when we need the equipment or the the a playground redone or whatever, we have the funds available so we don't have to jump your levy to to do those sort of things. So, we've tried to keep the levy smooth by doing uh these transfers each year uh based on kind of what the plan kind of looks like and what the needs of cash are going to be to kind of keep it flat. Uh to give you an idea, we've done that with our equipment. Uh when we first did this plan to buy a a large uh snowplow dump truck was like $150,000. They're now like a half a million dollars. >> Is that part of public public works? >> That's part of public works, but it's in our capital improvement plan under our capital equipment purchases and is funded through um an equipment rental that we charge the general fund uh each year. Um >> so did that save us money on our tax levy? >> It does. >> Okay. I one of the things that stood out to me for 2026 was um an approval for $2.5 million for the remodeling interior remodeling only of the public works building uh which was last done in 20 or in 2006. Um however the website says that there was an a remodel done in 2007 and the justification again uh there's only three sentences here explaining this $2.5 million but um it says that uh with the co 19 outbreak in the 20 in 2020 the building needs improvements to provide proper spacing of employees and functionality and again that was approved for this year 2026. Um, I think that it's silly to justify a $2.5 million renovation on COVID era nonsense. Um, and I think that if we subtracted $2.5 million from our overall budget that we would definitely see a reduced tax levy. Again, uh those funds are coming from a different source, but uh yeah, the public works building since that since we've built it and remodeled it, uh we've added staff um over in public works. Um we've got guys, two guys, three guys in one office. Um so we're trying to get some better functionality over there. Um, we're also storing a lot of the equipment outside again, uh, and so forth. And so we're trying to make better use of the space that's there. And that's kind of what the remodel is. again. Uh when we get to that point, uh they'll have to take uh have it designed and take bids and quotes and stuff and then it will go to the town board and it's up to them to say yes or no. >> By the way, I appreciate you ask, excuse me, answering all these questions because you're the one only answering them here and I know the town board has a lot of accountability for these also. >> Oh yeah. >> Um and >> and they don't take it lightly. Hey, >> that's important. That's very important. In 2002, we signed a a contract with Gem Lake pertaining to providing them public works services. Um, are we making a profit on that? And if so, how much? >> Um, I can't tell you exactly on public works, uh, cuz we do other things. We do code enforcement for them, building inspections, uh, we do finances for them. Uh but between all of those, it probably brings in probably close to $200,000 into our general fund. >> Okay. Uh my last question pertains to Township Day. >> Um are we making a profit on Township Day? >> No. >> Um how much is the Township Day expenditure? >> It uh Well, Township Days and Movies in the Park are together. Uh we budget about uh $50,000 uh for those two activities. Uh they bring in probably just under 10. So it's costing about 40. >> Okay, don't get me wrong, I love township day. Um, just looking at it, I I feel like it's a place where the planning commission could perhaps make a profit and the city could or excuse me, the township could use those funds and taking a a $49,000 loss. >> It'd be nice. >> All right. Thank you for answering my questions. >> Anybody else? Tim David uh 5294 Baldigo Boulevard East. Uh just to build on some of the comments from the previous speaker. Um just want to get perhaps get some additional clarification on December 10. Uh we as township residents approved the annual operating budget that is funded by the levy. Is that right? uh you made a recommendation. >> We made a recommendation, right? >> You lowered the uh tax levy by approximately $80,000 which then resulted in us reducing the budget by $80,000. >> But we as residents made the recommendation to approve the operating budget >> and which impacted the levy. >> Yes. >> Okay. the capital improvement budget which I think is a different topic which that last speaker was trying to clarify is that a separate budget item or approval process separate from the annual operating budget? >> Uh the town board does approve that separately. >> Okay. Uh again, the items that are in the current year are in the 2020 well for the for example this year's 2026 uh the items that were listed in 2026 were approved and are in the 2026 budget uh that the town board approved. So yes, it's a separate process. they get approved on the same day but or the same meeting but uh yes >> the the capital improvement budget and the numbers that are in that capital improvement budget such as the public works improvement is that part of the documentation that the residents get to see before that December 10 meeting >> I I know the town board has seen it. I don't know if it's out on the website as I think it does get put out there as part of the town board agenda, but unless you're actually looking at the town board agenda and looking for that document, probably not. >> Okay. Um I don't think I have full clarity of that as to whether that capital improvement budget is a separate approval process at a different date. >> The capital improvement plan is the budget isn't. >> The capital improve improvement plan yes is approved in a different setting different meeting. >> Uh it's it's approved separately but it's done at the same meeting as the the board approves the budget. >> Okay. I think it'd be helpful if we could get more clarity on the difference between those two and what the residents get to see. Okay, let me just go on um because I am echoing the uh last speaker's concern about transparency and financial availability of information on the on the website etc. And it makes me think about the concept of um how can citizens get more uh financial information to make you know better decisions as we get to raise our hands which is really important thing to do and obviously people are very invested and interested here. I think our civic um responsibility has increased in the last number of years. um makes me think about the concept of is there some way we can um uh promote a citizens budget advisory role or commission or some way for um folks who really want to dig in to things like uh the public works $2.25 million um improvement and evaluate those uh business cases around those type of improvements. >> Sure. Um >> that would be up to the board. Yeah, it'd be a >> put it out on the floor. >> I mean, we the the problem is we have problems getting people to serve on the committees we have now. So, to create a new committee, I think we're going to have the same problem. But, >> yeah, I don't know if it'd be a new committee, but I'm just saying there's a number of folks here want to want to make informed decisions, and you're asking us to raise our hands. >> Yeah. >> So, I think um there's some additional uh knowledge, and it might absolutely help tell the story of the township. Sure. >> As to why you're where you're at. >> Yep. >> Okay. Sorry about Thanks. >> Anybody else? I'll turn it back over to Bob. Thanks, Tom. Okay. So with the conclusion of the preliminary tax levy review, the next action item is to approve the preliminary tax levy for 2027. >> You accidentally hit my slide. >> Oops. >> There we go. >> Okay. So the preliminary tax levy proposed is the two mill is the $8,245,000. Is there a motion from the floor? >> Motion's been made and seconded to approve that preliminary tax levy. >> There's no vote yet. Got to I know you want to vote, but got to be patient. Okay. >> Those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Say nay. >> The eyes have it. We can >> let's do a hand. >> We can. Those in favor, please raise your hands. >> And both of us are going to be found >> 13. Mike, is that a yes or a point of clarification? >> Okay. I got I've got 12 then, Bob. Okay. Is there supposed to be discussion before? >> Yes, there. Yeah. >> Do we ask for discussion? I didn't hear >> my question. >> That same thing. >> Yes. Discussion after the motion. >> After the second, there should be discussion. >> Yes, >> you're correct. Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, is there more discussion >> after the second? So the motion was to accept the levy and budget as proposed. It did get a second. Now we're open for discussion. >> Yes. On that motion. Okay. >> Yes, please. >> No discussion. As I said before, I would just like to propose a freeze on the levy that was approved last year. Maybe just a further question. Is there an opportunity to have a second vote later on when the public has opportunity to review some of the materials we've asked for? >> No. >> No, there's not. >> That's not allowed. >> No. Well, here's how it works. What you're talking about is whatever vote occurs right now in terms of the levy, that's that's a vote. If there has to be a motion to reconsider, Oh, sorry. Apologize. There has to be a motion to reconsider that vote, but that has to occur tonight. >> So, I guess my real question is if it does get denied, if the naysay outweigh the yays, what happens then? >> Then there'll have to be a second vote until you approve a preliminary levy >> tonight. >> Tonight >> with a different number. >> Yes. the to answer your question uh the first part of your question on another or more information and stuff as we develop our budget uh like I say in September the town board will have to approve a preliminary levy that'll get certified to Ramsey County. Uh that has typically been lower than what is approved tonight. Um so when when they're going through the budget process uh they typically do that at their work sessions uh which are the fourth Fridays uh in the morning. Um but uh we can certainly make all that information well it's available as part of the agenda packets uh that are online but we can make it available as a separate item somehow so you can see it but that's for the board to approve but then when we actually get to the final levy uh which we present in December mber again we'll have a meeting very similar to this the residents uh run the meeting uh just like this one and uh we will present the actual budget and the actual levy we are proposing and again the residents at that meeting will then vote on the levy and as uh Mr. David uh said, you know, last year the residents uh made a motion to lower the levy by $80,000 or approximately $80,000 and then uh we had to make the budget fit into that $80,000. So we had to reduce our budget by $80,000 and then the town board approved that at their next board meeting which was like a week later. So, so to clarify, tonight you vote on the 2027 preliminary levy. That's the only time you vote on that tonight. In December, you vote on the annual budget >> and the final >> and the final. So again, there's a second shot at it in December. But in terms of what you do tonight, the preliminary levy for tonight, no, it's done tonight. Does that make any sense? >> This is a stat requirement. Exactly. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, if I could just recap, vote tonight, yes or no. If it's no, >> you then offer an alternative amount tonight. >> So, we So, somehow we approve a levy tonight figure >> and that figure cannot be exceeded in December when we do the other. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Thank you. I think it was stated uh just a minute ago, but I think it it's helpful to reaffirm why we are doing this. What uh give give everybody the context. It is simply very much a matter that this is required by state statute. Is that right? >> That's right. >> That I mean that's the reason it's not that the board is requesting this and it doesn't lock us township residents into that number. It's just a requirement by the state legislature that the township has to fulfill. >> Yes. The statute requires that each township on the second Tuesday of March conduct an an annual meeting like this to approve the preliminary levy. >> Right. >> Very very specific preliminary doesn't lock us in, >> but it gives a projection of what we'd expect. >> Right. >> But it gives a ceiling. >> Ceiling. >> It's a ceiling. >> Yeah. The maximum, right? I think that's important for everybody to understand. It's only a maximum. doesn't lock us in. We'd like that to be less, I think, but it doesn't lock us into. >> When you use the term lock, it's not that this amount has to be spent. It's just this is the amount that the most amount that can be spent. >> And that's what the state statue is requesting. >> That's exactly right. >> That's why I wanted to give context here. >> By the way, townships are the only missile bodies in the state of Minnesota that are allowed to do this for citizens, electors as they're called under statute to do this. No other no city cities don't have to do this. To your knowledge in the history of Whitebear Township, has a levy ever not been passed as initially proposed? >> I believe that's never I believe it's it's changed. >> Um the prelims better than I do though. >> The preliminary I don't think has ever been changed. the final has I know in like 200 let's see I wasn't here so it was would have had to have been maybe around 2010 uh the residents when they presented the final levy the residents voted uh to reduce the levy by I want to say $200,000 and that was approved and then so they had to go back and and reduce the budget and the property taxes by that 200,000 that the residents voted on. And then last year, uh, as I said, the residents, uh, voted to reduce the final levy by $80,000, and we had to, uh, make the budget work with that reduction, uh, and the levy with the 80,000. But I don't recall the final or the preliminary levy ever being changed again because it's kind of our worstc case scenario. And we just don't know what the numbers are going to be. We kind of know they're going to be lower than this, but we don't know. >> And so there's going to be another if we say no today, we sit here and we establish >> correct >> what that is. Once we get that, we walk away and the decision is made by the board then, right? The the people you're telling me. >> No, no. If you if this if the 8,245 doesn't get approved, let's just say you approve, you make a motion and it's $8 million and that gets approved. Then that 8 million becomes the maximum that we can levy. Then over the summer basically, uh we'll start getting numbers from like the county. >> Sure. We'll get actual numbers from the county, the city of White Bear Lake for our fire contract. Uh we'll start getting to know what some of these other numbers really are. We'll plug those into our budget. And if that comes below the 8 million, then in September, the town board can approve a preliminary levy that's sent to Ramsey County that's lower than the 8 million. But they can't go above whatever is approved tonight. Then as from September uh through or October, November, we can refine those numbers uh and lower it still cuz whatever the town board approves in September, that becomes our new ceiling and we can always lower, but we can't exceed that. So again, uh we'll have a meeting just like this where we'll present you uh the residents the final numbers for 2027 and a final tax levy for 2027 that the residents will vote on. >> There are a lot of advantages to being the township and democracy. >> That's why we all live here. >> Yeah. Right. But this to me is to have to a preliminary budget before the first quarter of the year is even over. It's difficult to realistically do and that's why this number as a preliminary number seems high because we just this is just kind of throwing darts at this point. So when we get over the summer and like was saying get some more realistic numbers and start plugging them in, we got a more realistic number to present as a September preliminary budget. Then we got more realistic numbers between September and December where we bring it back here for final vote and as what happened in this last year reduce it to that too. >> And this when we when when this is voted tonight this is not set in. >> Yeah. This is a initial ceiling. Got another step to get to in September where it's going to be lower. Another stepmber. >> Yeah. And the December again, there's another meeting December where you the the the town the town citizens vote on that final budget. That's the one that I'm sorry. Uh Tom Tim. Right. Thanks. Sorry, Tim. I'm getting old, so I >> Okay, and that's what Tim was referring to when they they actually lowered the budget by $80,000. So, there's another there's a second meeting this year in December. In fact, what you're going to do tonight after you one of the things after you vote on the preliminary levy, you'll also vote on the date of that December meeting, too. >> We did that in November. >> No, I think it's still on there, Tom. I think we actually approved that tonight. Yeah, we're meeting December again. >> We're meeting December. Yes. But I think that's on the uh it's on the agenda for tonight, I believe. Is it not? >> December 7th. >> Just says announce. >> It just says announced that it was set at the December. >> We announced it tonight. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yeah, we announced it tonight. >> One of the slides you have uh if the town's tax capacity remains at 22,700,000 2026 tax capacity, then you explain other things. it. Do we expect that to happen or is that just based on So, we expect it to >> uh as the county commissioner explained, you'll be getting your property value notices here uh probably in the next few weeks and uh from that value uh over the summer, the county will refine that from people that are requesting adjustments and so forth. Uh they basically take everybody in the township, all the commercial property, all the residential property, add up all those values and give us what our new value is. And uh right now or the last few years again those values have been climbing um more so on uh this last year more so on the residential property. Um, in the past it's varied where residential hasn't gone up that much, but commercial did. Uh, last year, uh, residential went up more. Uh, commercial didn't go up as much. Um, so all those numbers go in uh, they'll come out in the fall uh, or pro be provided to us. So I expect our our tax capacity to increase uh which is then uh our tax levy is divided by that tax capacity to get the new tax rate and then the tax rate is applied to your market value uh to get what uh taxes uh your property will pay. So that's why it's important to pay attention to that market value notice that comes out in the next few weeks because if you feel it's way too high, uh there's an appeal process to that and uh you should appeal it because needless to say, even if our levy stayed the same and our tax rate stayed the same and your market value went up, you're paying more taxes. And that 22 million that tax that capacity. >> Yes. >> That's what you bring in or that's the sum total of the housing. >> That's what the county is telling us. All of our property in the township, commercial, residential, industrial. That is what it's worth. >> Exactly. >> And the tax levy is the $8 million that you Right. Okay. Remember, everything is based on a percentage of the actual estimated value is determined by the county assessor. Okay. Any other comments, Mr. >> Chair? Well, yeah. >> So, you have a vote, a second discussion. >> Yeah. So, if there's no more discussion, we'll call the question. Any question? >> And the question is to approve the proposed preliminary tax property tax levy at $8,245,000. So, we'll try it again here. Those in favor of that motion, please say or please do a hand count. >> Please raise your hand. >> Raise your hand. Keep it up. You are in favor. I've got 14. >> 14. >> All right. Those have 14. Those voting against the motion, please raise your hand. >> 14 to 10. The motion passes. It's one of the more interesting discussions we've had over the years, I think, and actually productive. Okay, next item on the agenda is to announce locations and dates for special town board budget meeting. and we're just announcing the location and that uh that information is for the meeting to be held Monday, December 7th, 2026 at 7:00 p.m. at this location. In the event there's bad weather or or it's determined by the town board that we can't meet on that date, then the date will be changed to Wednesday, December 9th, 2026, 7:00 at this location. >> So, Cheryl Smith, 5713 Jenny Lane. So, of course, I was at the December meeting. It's dark. There's not enough parking. We all voted to change the location and at the immediately subsequent town board meeting you changed it back to here. >> That was >> we voted we voted that we did not want it here because it's standing room only and you decided for convenience and the cameras you wanted it back here. >> There's not enough parking. It's dark across that street. So staff is going to be taking a van. We What's that microphone? Sorry. There's 10 of us who attend here. We're not going to be driving. We're hoping to open up 10 open up 10 more spots. >> Yeah. >> Well, and there were I mean it was standing room only and we asked for it to be moved >> because it's dark. Crossing over Otter Lake Road is dangerous. It's too dark. and we asked for it. We voted on it to move it to a different location and evidently, miraculously, you see it at the next town board meeting, which I watched. I mean, you changed it because of staff convenience. >> Well, not quite true. >> You talked about the cameras, excuse me, and that >> that was one thing, but you remember it used to be held at Otter Lake school, >> right? We received a letter from the school district last I believe it was November requesting actually more or less telling us that the school is no longer available to the town for this meeting >> and so we could come up with other recommendations possibly >> this has to be held in a public space and the problem is with the exception of Otter Lake school this is about the biggest public space in the township >> about the senior center churches have have been pretty clear about is that they don't want a lot of government >> okay it has to be held within the boundaries of the township that's one problem so the high schools outside the boundaries of the township the only school that's inside the boundaries that I'm aware of is Otter Lake and they've told us they do not they've said please well actually they've said don't come >> don't come here >> now safety concerns we got notice right after annunciation Yeah. Mhm. >> I just know that it's really hard here. It was jam-packed. Standing room only. And then again, the parking, I mean, even now, at least it was light when we came, but it's it's a challenging parking situation. >> We're going to try to make it better for this next year. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thanks. >> It's not as if it's for the convenience of the town staff or anything like that. is the fact that it has to be held at a public building inside the boundaries of the township and there just aren't that many spaces inside the township that are public. >> Perhaps it would be something that instead >> well >> let me maybe we can address the issue here through the back door. Next item on the agenda is to set the time and location for the 2007 annual meeting. Not the budget meeting, but the annual town meeting. And right now, the proposal is to have it here on March 9th at 7 p.m. So that does require a motion. Is there Okay, motion's made and seconded. We'll get it right this time. >> Motion's been made and seconded to hold the next annual 2027 annual meeting here 7 p.m. on March 9th. Any further discussion? 2642. Suzanne, what if we just put to be determined as far as the location for the next annual meeting? >> Well, I don't know if we can allow some time to >> I think so. >> Maybe talk to the school again or whatever. I think we have to have that determined before property tax statements go out because it'll give the time place got to have it done year and >> tell you what >> 12 months >> I'll double check the statutes again and if we can possibly move it after tonight we'll sure look at it but >> it won't be at the school >> afraid I got to know tell you that my my interpretation of the statute what I remember reading it >> is that we pretty much have to establish tonight But we'll look at it again. If we can avoid that, we'll sure try because but again, the problem is space is available within the boundaries of the township. That's the problem. >> In fact, I hate to digress, but if you remember correctly, and during CO, we actually held the annual meeting in the parking lot of Otter Lake School. That's right. >> I don't know if you remember that one. >> Yeah, that's right. They Yeah, they forgot to open it up. >> Maybe we need to rent a tent. like school. >> You know, you might be right. >> Okay. >> Oh, good. >> Good evening. Kelly Johnson, 4064 Whitebear Parkway. Uh, considering that the budget meeting in December along with the annual meeting here the second Tuesday of March needs to be held within the boundaries of the township, has anyone looked at uh, Belair School that is within I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that's actually in the township. I don't know if intermediate district 287 would be open to us holding >> our meeting our meetings there if we look at the annual and the budget and the budget meeting in in December but it may be something to take a look at. >> Well, you're a good point. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Mike Demar's 5474 Peterson. I don't mean to belabor this, but what about Tamarak? Is that an option? We looked at that, didn't we? >> Yeah. I thought we had the same problem. >> Yeah, actually we Okay. >> We did hold it at TAM the I don't remember if it was a budget meeting or the annual meeting. We did hold at Tamarak at one year. I know they've done some facility improvements and changes over there. I know when we held it there before, uh, we were cramped more than what we are now, but, uh, like I say, I know they've done some, uh, improvements there, so I don't know, that might be an option. >> Edon, 5435 Peterson Road. We we looked at Tamar and we talked to Tamarack. They're not ADA compliant. They have gravel driveways or walkways. So, they were saying it would not work for them. That's right. So it look trust me we've looked wherever we can to try to make this work but we're not trying to sugarcoat this. We've looked around. Now Bell is a good suggestion only uh that's also a uh special ed school. I don't know what they have for intermediate classes at night >> but we are trying our best and like I said we're all going to carpool next year. So we're going to free up at least 10 spaces and if need be we could always get Rams County Sheriff out here to at least sit on the corner to monitor traffic. if it looks like we're going to have a big turnout. I still think we can make this work. Uh, a couple things too. There has been brought up trying to uh expedite uh bookkeeping, farm it out, hire somebody else. The town board has always tried to keep us frugal. Now we're talking about adding more layers. Talking about adding another commission, more layers. That requires staff paperwork, more layers. We expect a lot of our staff. We're very short-handed. We run a very uh lean uh township. Uh for 12,000 11,000 people, we should have twice the staff we do. So, we expect a lot of these folks. So, uh we we I would say give them a little bit of a break when we're we're trying to make all this work. Thanks. >> Okay. Any other comments? Thought I saw a hand over here. You're done. Okay. All right, >> Mr. Chair, I would recommend that >> I know we got a a vote in a second here for approving what the recommendation is on the agenda, but >> um I would say maybe table that. Can we explore? >> So, we table that to explore some other sites, possibly Bel Air as was mentioned here tonight, unless anybody's got an objection to that. >> I'm not sure you're allowed to table. Uh, it's a good idea, but I don't think we can. >> Church is not. >> Thanks. >> Lisa Marama 5214 Angel Lane. Can we not use like a church or something? Would that be >> We've asked. >> Okay. >> We've asked a couple of churches and they want to stay clear of politics even if it is base level government. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It's good ideas. I mean, you're right. We understand. Uh I do remember that 2008 meeting here for the annual for the budget in December. That was interesting. It was really packed. >> It's way before my >> Yeah, I was here. Um so I know what you're saying and Otter Lake really would have been the first choice. Always has been, but that's been taken away. >> All right, there's no more questions or comments. I'll call the question. And very specifically, the motion was to have the 2027 annual meeting here at Heritage Hall, 700 p.m. Tuesday, March 9th. Those in favor, please say, "I." >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Any opposed? All right, the motion passes. Now just let me ask an academic question. If so now we have the location set but if the board and staff can find another location or another option is that something that can be put into the town website. >> Obviously there's a lot of people that are paying attention to the website. >> I'll I'll research it to see if if it's possible to move the site >> and what we'd have to do about not Excuse me. >> No, we're talking about >> the annual meeting next. >> Move both meetings, right? You're saying yeah, move both meetings. Yeah, >> I'll do that. >> See if we can. I don't think we can, but I'll double check to make sure. If we can, we'll do it. >> Okay. All right. Uh, last item is other business. Is there are any other budget issues? If not, >> oh, >> oh, there you are. I thought you left. >> No, I didn't leave. I was having so much fun. And so, this I'm Burks Spazali. I work at the office of state. Otter Otter Blah is at the pension commission right now. So, she's still at the legislator helping volunteer firefighters and couldn't make it. Um, she wanted me to extend her gratitude for you guys participating in the township day. This is really cool. This is direct democracy and it's happening right here and everyone participated. Uh the office of state auditor is here to help uh townships and local government units. So you can contact our government information division if you have uh questions about your township. Uh we have a comparison tool on our website so you can see what other towns are spending. Um and we just want to be here to advocate for townships and for uh the continued good of our local government units. So thank you. Thanks much. Thanks. Sorry, I didn't see that. >> All right. Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> Is there a second? >> We are adjourned. I haven't had a vote. They got a vote on that. >> In favor? >> Those in favor? >> There's no discussion. Those in favor say I. Now we're a jury. >> Yeah. >> I know what you mean. >> They actually when we did it in that one 2008, what they did was they