[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] do [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] so um [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] let's go ahead and get going here good afternoon welcome glendale city council workshop session september 22nd 2020 this meeting is called order all members are in attendance if you could uh note in your role please uh we'll just go ahead and get right into it miss power if you'd introduce item number one property owner preservation grant program concept good afternoon mayor members of the council they're here today to provide item number one workshop item is gene moreno our director of community services thank you mr phelps good afternoon mayor and council presenting with me today is my colleague matt hess and we are here and very excited to talk to you about a potential concept related to cdbg funding that's called the property owner preservation grant program this particular program is really designed to address a community need as a result of covid and as a result of the looming eviction moratorium and the ongoing eviction moratorium as you know the federal government extended that moratorium until the end of december so today the overview of the presentation we're going to talk about the concept in general we're going to talk about why and why now we're going to talk a little bit about the program mechanics and how it would potentially work for eligible tenants or eligible properties and tenants and then talk about the potential stakeholder perspective and how we're attempting to address a variety of needs throughout the community with this particular program so you'll recall that back in may when we first started the discussions um and you know kobit was just hitting we were getting additional cares act funding through cdbg um we came to the council and we talked about reprioritizing some funding for various programs one of those programs was because at that time we knew that we were getting about three hundred thousand dollars for rental assistance a program or rental assistance from the arizona department of housing and based on the the volume that we had seen between the end of march and in may we knew that we were going to need more program dollars for eviction prevention and rental assistance so as part of the fiscal year 2021 annual action plan for cdbg we asked council to dedicate 783 000 i believe for rental assistance a few short weeks after we got that direction from council we were notified by the maricopa county that they wanted to include us in their cares act funding and they were setting aside about four and a half million dollars for the city of glendale to process eligibility for people who needed rental assistance within our own community so as a result we have the 783 000 um that has been set aside for uh the cap office for rental assistance that we know we aren't going to need within the next six months and so we we're looking at opportunities to still get that money out into the community quickly because we do know that there's you know quite a bit of community need one of the things that we have heard from the multi-family housing association is that property owners are being significantly impacted by this eviction moratorium and with it's being extended the good folks over in housing always send me great newsletters and i saw this model program from the state of colorado which basically took the the program of of how we normally administer eviction prevention and kind of turned it upside down and so matt's going to talk to you about some of those details so what i did is i i went to matt and i said uh mr house could you tell me is this something that we could do with cdbg and if we could do it is it something that you and your team could take on and administer on a short-term basis and the answer to both of those questions was yes and so before we got too far down the road and got really excited about this opportunity we knew we needed to get back in front of the council because it would require an amendment to the action plan um that you adopted at the end of june and so that's what we're here for today so at the end of the presentation we will be looking for some consensus direction from the council of should we consider implementing this property owner preservation program and if so are you comfortable with reallocating the 782 thousand dollars of cdbg funding to community revitalization for this program and so with that i will turn the presentation over to mr hess to continue talking about the program mechanics and how it works thank you ms moreno mayor members of the council thank you for your time today as ms moreno had indicated i'll be discussing some of the details of the colorado program and how they may be applicable here in glendale but before i'm going into some of those details i want to talk a little bit about what the program is and why it should be important that we discuss this now at its core uh it is an eviction prevention program as as they are customarily done um however as ms moreno indicated before rather than working directly with tenants um we would be working directly with the property owners um to up qualify those tenants and get the money out more quickly in that case we could have one application for multiple tenants in lieu of multiple tenants with multiple landlords so what is the what is the timeliness here that we're talking about um as gene had mentioned we do have the december 31st cdc moratorium that expires um we also have um some backlogs and in the processing of um we have additional money processing those tenant funds that we already have and it's really really crucial that we are able to get this money out into the community to be able to assist those folks who have not been able to afford paying their rent um because of cobit mayor good thank you and that's what i i would like to talk about your third bullet on the previous slide was the agile response to unprecedented need um yet you just cited that you have backlogs already talk to me about what agile response means and what kind of time frame we're looking at from the time a landlord submits an application to the time that he actually he or she actually gets the funds marin council member clark so what we're talking about here uh you know the one thing we have learned from kovid is that an agile response from our programs and our processes is very critical what we're talking about here is the ability to potentially reach hard to reach tenants potentially tenants that haven't applied or tenants that have applied and have only been eligible to receive maybe one or two months of assistance based on when they applied what this program would do is seek to make the property owners or landlords whole it would not seek to duplicate benefits so anyone who any tenant who is already in the pipeline for processing or has already received funding that funding would not be duplicated this would be the opportunity to um to make property owners whole if say as an example you had a proper for i'll just use the maricopa county program as an example the maximum monthly rent that can be paid on that is fifteen hundred dollars and so and per month so in initially it was for three months so maximum of forty five hundred dollars if you had a tenant who was experiencing a crisis related to covid um and they met the income qualifications and their rent was 2 000 a month there's still a 500 gap there so this program would allow property owners to continue to apply for additional funding to bridge gaps or if they had tenants that aren't applying one of the things that we've heard from the multi-family association is they have about one percent of their tenants that they've reached out to that are being unresponsive and they may be being unresponsive because they're scared because they don't know about programs there may be language barriers this would be an opportunity to bridge an additional gap and again it's based on really trying to put all hands on deck to create that agile response to make sure that we have our gaps covered does that help well you've been very extensive in in who you will reach but my question was basically directed to the time that it takes and the reference to having backlogs now how are you going to deal with an additional workload and what is the time frame from the time a landlord applies until the landlord receives that funding marion councilmember clark later on in the presentation when we talk through what that process looks like we're going to talk a little bit about that timeline our goal would be to get this money expended by the end of december just because of this looming eviction moratorium um how quickly we can get it implemented and adopt the program adapt the program rules um you know is going to be a driving factor we will also need to you know bring forward to counsel that item um to uh do the amendment to the action plan as well but that that was our discussion is we need to get this money out there because of this looming eviction moratorium well you have three months basically remaining um what do you anticipate being able to handle out of that 700 000 plus in three months marion council member clark we we haven't gotten that far yet because we needed to find out for sure if this was something that the council wanted to pursue so we haven't put a lot of detail into that program plan so the guideline and the example program that we're showing you today is what we know is out there and what we know has worked in colorado we believe that it will work here as well when we talk about the process we're going to talk about how do we manage the volume so currently right now there's no mitigating the number of applications that you can receive and those applications are processed on a first and first out basis so that is you know that's continuing people are still continuing to apply every day with this particular program what we're talking about in order to be able to do this in a timely manner we're talking about having to utilize a lottery process which we'll we'll talk about in detail um but essentially we we don't know what the needs going to be because we haven't had those conversations with the property owners we've only heard from the multi-family housing association but we suspect that there will be probably a lot of people who are requesting the service and so the uh we would utilize a model that we're planning to utilize for the housing program in the future which is have a application period where people apply they provide initial information we do a randomized computerized drawing and then we process those until we're out of money okay let me try it a different way uh you need to get council approval before you can move forward so you haven't flushed out the details of the program yet how long do you anticipate it to be to get the program up and running a week a month what are we looking at in terms of how long before you're ready to actually begin the program mayor and council member clark the timeline that we've talked about as a month so if we got direction today we would plan on bringing a plan amendment forward to you at the next available council meeting um and then in the meantime we're still working on those program requirements so the ideal situation would be that we would launch by the beginning of november okay so you will have two months to disperse over seven hundred thousand dollars i i think it's an admirable goal i'm not sure that you can meet it without having some temporary people on board to assist you if you really want to get all of that money out into the community have you thought about that marin council member clark so just to be clear the there's no there would not be a deadline to spend the money i mean we could we could expend it out into the community after december 31st so there's no hard deadline on this funding as there is with some of our other funding that we're receiving from maricopa county so to answer that question if we didn't expend everything before the end of december we we could still continue the program um so that's question number one now the reason why that deadline is important is because we know that that's the date that the federal government moratorium has lifted in the meantime there are some things that the government is requiring um tenants to do and the you know verifying that they have um applied for you know assistance and those types of things and so all of that information those affidavits are out there but um but all of that has to be verified which takes manpower and time and and that's my concern is that i have no problem with with allocating the resources i do have a problem in in anticipating that you can achieve a goal of allocating even though they might not get the resources till after december 31st i believe that that you might have some problems in making those allocations prior to december 31st because it's going to require a certain amount of time to process each one of these applications mayor and council member clark the program is designed to be streamlined so that we don't have to income qualify all of the tenants so it is supposed to it's supposed to be a more streamlined process but to answer your question about administrative assistance and would we need to hire additional staff in the original action plan that was adopted by council there was a set aside for administrative staff to support um the the programs that we were implementing so that is available to us we have not made the determination as to whether or not we would need to hire additional staff there may be an opportunity to utilize staff from other divisions or other departments to help with this because we do expect that this will be kind of a one-time big push and it it might be better to leverage staff from other departments because they're already here they're already accustomed to our division and those types of things rather than hiring temporary staff but we're open to either the the biggest the biggest challenge that i presented to mr hess and his team was do you think that you could administer this program and um you know get that funding out into the community quickly recognizing that december 31st there's a big looming deadline and he does believe that with his staff and the team that he has in place he is fully staffed now that they would have the ability to manage the program now we may need to backfill a position you know would you know to process whether it's the payments and munis or those types of things we may need some additional help from other divisions i i here's here's my problem one of the things you're going to require as a is that their the tenants are not receiving any other subsidy or any other duplication of this benefit that will require doing some some manpower to verify that we are not duplicating benefits nor are we um offering a subsidy that they're already getting that's going to be your hang up and so that's why i'm worried about you being able to push this money out and and quite frankly i i think i'd like to hear from mr hess his comments with regard to my questions with regard to a time crunch and manpower and really getting this money out into the community before you speak um i have a couple things that i'd like to say mr aldama wanted to speak but i think a lot of what you're going to present might answer a lot of the questions too but uh two or three things that that i would be really interested in i like the idea of the program i think it's a good idea i've got confidence that you guys will make it work but i don't think that uh if you have apartments if they in turn and i've seen this happen with businesses where if somebody's late they charge a late fee because they're late or they charge some sort of handling fee or some sort of processing fee i don't think we should be responsible for that i would hope that the landlords would say you know what if we get our rent maybe we need to not worry about trying to gouge people for extra money so i would hope that that's part of what you're doing that we don't pay any additional fees because it was late because we're the ones making up the difference so mr alden thank you mayor and some of the questions might be answered later on but um i'm really concerned and then i'll ask a question but my concerns are is that the county gave us 339 thousand dollars to administer 4.6 million dollars in rental assistance i met with the city manager and met with miss jane moreno who gave me some really good information but the that program started july 15th and then when i asked in august we had only helped eight families with 4.6 million to our disposal so i'm really concerned that we can't spend 4.6 million let alone spend 782 thousand so my question to ms moreno is the staff that's going to administer the 4.6 is that a whole different department and staff than would administer the 782 uh mayor and council member alda you are correct um we would not we wouldn't be burdening the community action program office because they do have a backlog the difference between the programs that we're dealing with now and this program is we get to define the roles and the requirements of this program utilizing the you know obviously we have to comply with hud regulations and things like that but when it comes to the very specific things that we're going to talk about later in the presentation we get to define that program guide and those program rules with the maricopa county funding and with the arizona department of housing funding we did not get to design those program rules and what those requirements are and so although both of those entities have been very open to our feedback about what's working and what's not working and they've made program changes throughout the process it hasn't been a smooth transitional process because we were we're beholden to these other program rules and requirements um so that that is one big difference that we see um with this particular program is because we do get to define those rules and requirements we'll be able to you know state up on the front end and tr and make it as easy as possible to get this money out into the community while complying with the rules and regulations mayor if i may miss moreno thank you for that explanation question for you the the new program uh the pop is that your intent that because there's no ending for the funding but is it your intent that that will be an ongoing program each year that you would request funding for uh mayor and councilmember aldama that has not been part of the discussion our our initial um reason for bringing this in front of council is because we want to get the 782 thousand dollars out into the community that was originally dedicated for eviction prevention and right now the cap office is focused on disseminating that four and a half million dollars and so this is an opportunity for us to leverage two different tracks to accomplish the same thing thank you i have more questions but i'll wait because i think you may answer them as you go in so oh i'll yield no thank you mayor um thank you mayor councilmember clark um to be perfectly frank i i completely understand your trepidation your concerns spending almost eight hundred thousand dollars in one month is a very tall order and that's something that we are accustomed to um when gene first uh brought the idea um brought the idea to me my my uh first response was are you kidding me and then my second response was um absolutely we can look into this and and look through the regulations and see where this type of program could fit um within the regulations on a streamline basis so rather than using as ms mourinho had indicated prior we would not necessarily be qualifying folks from an income perspective now that's a unique feature of the cdbg program that you can do on a limited basis in urgent crises such as such as covet right now so that is quite an extensive process when you are allocate or you are income qualifying individual households between getting the documentation reviewing it verifying those that's generally the very um the most extensive part of the process now when we did determine that from a regulatory perspective this would be eligible i rallied the team and i brought everybody together and i said this is something that we're looking at um here are some general parameters please poke holes in it um tell me do you think this is something that we could possibly accomplish how would we need to do that what kind of resources would we need and we did a pretty high level review of that to determine what particular milestones milestones would need to occur what kind of application we would need what that platform would be and then the process of reviewing things and the entire staff agreed and were willing to make sure that this gets done so i completely agree this is normally not something that i would be advocating to complete in a month but we really are in a crisis situation and we have a unique opportunity with cbg funds to provide that service in this streamlined way and so um facing this eviction moratorium at the end of the year i'm very confident that the revit division can get this money out into the community by the end of the year mayor one last question and then we can move on i would appreciate it since you feel you can get this program up and running by november 1st by december 1st i think you should uh present some kind of report written report to council on how how far you've gotten in actually allocating that 784 thousand also i didn't know that there was four million and and we've only helped four families i would like more information about that item as well thank you absolutely thank you councilmember you have anything else okay did you take note of my concerns on the handling fees and things like that um yes uh mayor members of council um that was something we were going to address in a future slide okay okay so all right so you're not done you're you're gonna present oh i'm i'm sorry i thought you meant with this this particular okay conversation there there are additional slides so as ms moreno indicated earlier we looked at the the colorado program and sort of the general um the general guidelines that they had put out to see what's applicable um a lot of the things that they had included um would be in our opinion applicable to the city of glendale and that would apply both on the property side and also the tenant side these are pretty reasonable in our opinion making sure that people are glendale residents these properties are in glendale these are moderate ranged priced apartments similar to how the section 8 program runs with the rent reasonableness we'd also want to make sure that they the property managers the property owners don't have any active code cases they're paying their taxes the units meet housing quality standards so they meet a minimum standard of of quality and also they're not in danger of being foreclosed upon from a tenant side because we're using we would be using urgent community need as the basis we would have to make sure that the tenants have some sort of coveted related financial impact and also to your point earlier council member clark they cannot receive a double subsidy benefit there is a very specific means to do that and i've been working with hud and taking some of their trainings to go through that exact process so that we can have that in place ahead of time another key feature of this is that the tenant would be authorizing the property owner manager to apply on their behalf so providing any documentation things like that that would be necessary the property owner would be collecting that from the tenant packaging that as necessary and then submitting it to us and then one more feature of um of the colorado program that we thought could be relevant is that we don't have we have an arm's length relationship between the tenants and the owners mayor thank you mayor could you go back through you said something about the type of units that would what would or the type of properties that would qualify for you said something section 8 i want to make sure i understand what you meant by what you said um so mayor councilmember thomas off i was i think you're referring to the bullet 2 on the left the rent reasonableness that is to make sure that we are not assisting luxury units so essentially section 8 the housing division typically they will have a a fair market value list for their tenants so that they can't exceed that specific amount for either one two three four bedroom apartment and so that will be part of our process to make sure that we aren't assisting luxury units where people um could probably afford to pay the run of their own well mayor if i could there may be plenty of people that are that have lost employment that are living in higher rent and i i'm just not exactly sure what you mean by specifically luxury is there a price cut off and is you know the size or because the tenants and the property owners whether they live in whatever kind of unit if they um have lost employment or had you know covered related illnesses or have been unable to work and can't pay their rent um i just want to make sure i understand so what is that if you're going to get to that the slide i'll wait but i just want to make sure i understand what properties are eligible and what properties are not eligible mayor and council member tony troff so as an example in the colorado program colorado actually has a different model that they use and they actually specify like for this unit size this is the maximum amount of rent you can pay we don't currently have that in arizona and so what our thought was is that we would use the same standard that we would apply to um to the that we use for the housing choice voucher program and really it's designed to make sure that there's not like rent gouging and again to mr hess's point of luxury units again this is these are all things that we get to define in our program and so um you know we would want to just caution against um you know paying towards a you know three thousand dollar a month rent but um if the you know if the council wanted to provide direction that you didn't want to consider reasonable we would just go back and make sure that from a hud regulatory perspective that that didn't need to be a requirement it's just one of those things that when we looked at the model program that's one of the tools that they used to make sure that the the funding was was being aimed towards the people who would need it the most um but again that's something that we get to define um we would definitely need to go back and just verify because we are using the urgent community need there's not an income qualification for the tenants but we would need to verify whether a rent reasonable requirement is necessary okay i'd like to verify could find out a little bit more about that before we actually approve something but if i could um is there any um my only can and i i i think this is a good idea but i do have some concerns with it my biggest concern is that the more sophisticated property owners are going to have a big advantage over the not as sophisticated property owners these large multi-apartment complex people all across the state are going is there a limit to how much a single property or property owner i just wouldn't want to see that this money's all gobbled up by two or three conglomerates and then there's no and i mean i while we want to help people we don't want to give people who have bigger staffs and are more um maybe astute in how to handle this type of a program over everyone else uh mayor councilmember tom choff that that is something that that we've been discussing internally as well the logistical process of selecting applicants is was on a subsequent slide which i think will will address that concern to possibly not have um one or two as you said larger property owners so i think that there is a process that is similar to the hcv selection process that we will be putting in place very shortly um that could smooth out the chances of some of something like that occurring thank you the reason i asked mayor is because i thought that it said that a property owner could submit multiple applications so that was what the concern was is that if they could submit 75 applications you know that's i just don't know whether there's any limit to how many uh it didn't i didn't see it in here anyways how many applications they could submit at once so and and mayor councilmember tomachoff just just to echo what ms moreno had said earlier that again those are those are things that are at our discretion and so if if the council were to feel that was an important element to include as part of the funding criteria that's certainly something that we would run through the regs investigate and make sure it was included as the selection criteria okay thank you and to her point and she she got all around it but she never did actually touch it there's a lot of people that own second homes that rent them out to build equity for retirement uh i think the last thing we need to do is have a whole bunch of empty homes that people want to hang on to but are struggling to make their own payments and then on top of that the one they've been renting out so i would hope that that we would not look at the three four thousand dollar rentals but the average home where most people are paying fourteen fifteen hundred dollars uh that we would pay attention to that too this is just as important to help the person that's out of work but it's also just important to help people that own the property to keep keep somebody in there it helps us out with broken windows and trash and weed control and all that other stuff so there's a lot more to it than that i i hope that we don't just work on just apartments only that we really spread across the whole community with homes and apartments uh marin um mayor yes you are correct we are not limiting this to just multi-family housing um i mean obviously if that was the direction that council wanted to provide we couldn't just we could design the program that way but that wasn't part of the program requirements that you know colorado is using or that we would we really were looking at their model and looking at adopting not entirely but for the most part in terms of overall benefits um they would also an error to both owners and the tenants on the owner's side as we discussed previously it eliminates the reliance on the tenant as i said before it's can be difficult to obtain documentation that can be kind of a lengthy extensive process working with the property owner directly um we'll stream that at least from an administrative standpoint and as has come up in the room um previously um it does work to improve the solvency of the property owner so that they will not have any issues or they'll mitigate the issues that they'll have with paying their mortgage it's also very efficient for owners to apply for multiple tenants that's not to say that each tenant would be necessarily eligible but it is a streamlined means for multiple tenants to receive that assistance through one application and one very important benefit as well from the property owner side is it allows us to build and cultivate some relationships with those property owners which would have many many benefits throughout the city in my opinion having the section 8 the housing program having those relationships so that when tenants go out to find properties that would be a great benefit from a code enforcement perspective from a sales tax and a rental tax perspective having those relationships or building those relationships with landlords would be a great benefit as well in my opinion from the tenant side obviously they would halt the eviction they would not be fake the tenants would not be facing eviction in the near future we would also suggest as as what's in the colorado program is that any credit findings uh judgments that have been put against the uh the tenant would be released into the mayor's point colorado also has included waving of late fees which is something that that we would recommend as well um they would have written documentation that that rent is paid and then there would be a 30-day notice requirement for future um for future backlogs or future hardships now in terms of the logistics the overall mechanics of how the program would operate the first step would be to complete outreach with the landlords we've been in contact with cat team at pd we understand that they have monthly or bi-weekly lunches with a number of landlords throughout the city if we could sit in on those and and engage their interest sort of put that um i guess plant that seed with the property owners um that would be um very good buzz to get the information or at least get that the word out that this type of program is coming we also have zoom grants which you're probably familiar with with the grant application process that we that we do every year we could use that as the platform for this application it's it's pretty uh simplified streamlined um technology where the tenants excuse me the the landlords could submit their pre-applications some preliminary documentations documentation for a specific period of time say two weeks at the end of that period um we could do a computerized random drawing of all applicants or applications received and so that would be regardless of whether they were you know a mom and pop or they were a large multi-family great question for you thank you mayor um so um on your first bullet you have conducts advanced outreach and marketing um and well i know you're you know meeting with the multi-family association people and all that's probably a good idea and social media and all the other things but would we be sending out um because the the mayor did kind of zero on what my concern is we you know they're people who own one home two homes three homes would we we and we have them registered as residential rentals so would we be directly sending letters to the property owners how would we be letting just regular people who have invested in rental properties whether they're condos homes whatever they are but how are they going to know um that these funds are available mayor and councilmember thomas we would work very closely with our public affairs team to develop the comprehensive marketing strategy one of one of those pieces could be a postcard mailer to a residential rental that we know of i think that that's one piece of it a couple of other things too that we know that we have tenant or we have registrations within um our vendor management system for um tenants that have received assistance in the excuse me property owners that have received rental assistance in the past so those are all things that we would we would explore to make sure that we had a comprehensive program for getting this out there we would also ask that this be marketed by all of you in your newsletters we would work with the pio team to make sure that we had some public service announcements that were pushed out et cetera and we we would do all of this in advance and and specifying that on this date we're going to open up applications for this period of time so that people would know and they'd have an opportunity to prepare um to apply and we'd give them you know plenty of time to do that so that's the idea behind it to make sure that there's not a disadvantage to your point of well i didn't know about the program i mean we would have that comprehensive marketing strategy in place specifying the date and time that it opens and closes um so that we try to you know provide equality and equal opportunity for everybody to apply yeah thank you i because i believe word will spread relatively quickly through the multi-family association but we need to make sure that there's plenty of opportunity for just regular investors who've invested in real estate and that they have an opportunity um as well and that was what my concern like thank you mayor for club because the multi-family people have can't they have staffs they have people who can manage this process for them and the average you know regular investor doesn't have that so um while we want well we want to help everybody i just want to make sure that we do our best to level the playing field and that we don't and i i would hope that somewhere in here we have at least some sort of a limit that we don't allow somebody to do too many applications at once um you know maybe the whether we say you can if you're if you've got multiple people who are late then you can submit applications for your 90 days pat whatever you start with those people and then you start moving forward with those will process those applications rather than being flooded because i imagine there are plenty of multi-family that are have got people multiple months past due mayor and councilmember tomatrov the other thing that we've talked about is just having a cap on the total amount of the total grant amount that could be received for any one property owner so those are all things that we would need to define um we wanted to first you know get some general consensus direction from you today so that we could then you know verify the you know program requirements and identify what those um specific program rules would be right but yeah i appreciate that thank you thank you mayor i'm gonna follow up on some of council member domitrov's line of reasoning miss rios i'm going to put you on the spot for a minute because i know you don't know the exact number but we have people who pay rental property tax we have a list of people in glendale who rent i believe that somewhere around 20 000 units would that be a ballpark number mayor members of the council i actually don't really know i mean um but we do have a program to look for and track residential rental like single family and then we also have all of the apartment complexes and and all of those so so i would think it would be advantageous if you simply presented a list to these folks and let them mail out their postcards to everyone on a fair and equal basis correct mayor members of the council that that's what i think that's what miss moreno was talking about we would send them out to the to those we know so they're registered with us very good then the only thing i'm concerned about with a random drawing and you said putting a cap on the amount that you could receive but it's possible that an entity could submit a hundred applications while another entity only submits one well you know in a randomized drawing the chances of of the person who submitted a hundred is more likely to be picked how are you going to overcome that kind of issue the inequity excuse me in the number of applications you may receive from one entity american council member clark so in that example that that property owner who's applying for a hundred units um they would only get one entry into that drawing it wouldn't be a hundred entries so that's that piece of it but to your point um if we did randomly draw somebody that had a hundred that they were applying for we would have to have some way to limit that whether if it was by the number of qualified units or a total cap on the dollar amount of the grant we we have discussed that that's something that we do have to figure out what's that cap and what's the right way to go about it but all right thank you if i could suggest maybe you should take any singles first and then any with multiples then make it your second choice one person that owns one property that's got one renter if they're behind is going to be hurt a lot more than a multi-family that might have three people that's not paying a rent if they have 300 renters mayor you know obviously if that's the council's wish we could certainly do that the idea here is that we would be able to help multiple tenants with one processing of an application and so um that that wouldn't be what we would recommend um because then that would also then artificially be kind of picking winners and losers um which is why we came up with a concept of the randomized drawing you know for those units that have you know just one single property owner we believe that chances are that that property or that that renter is probably applying through some of these other programs and that's one of the things that we'll be making sure of so that we don't have that duplication um but to your point you know the idea here is that we would be able if if i owned 10 properties and i was suffering a loss as a result of this moratorium we would be able to get this money out faster by processing that one application for 10 units yeah but i understand if you try to be fair you can't be though that's the problem i'd just like to add mayor members to council ultimately the beneficiaries are the tenants so regardless of whether or not um these tenants are living in a 500 unit facility or they're living in somebody's single-family home um they still are at risk of eviction and and becoming homeless so i i agree to a point if you're the renter and you own a property uh you're just as liable to lose your property so you lose your property and the person's out of a home too so so that's a two for there mr turner mike's not on thank you mayor thank you gene and matt for the presentation um generally speaking i think this is a program i can support i have a few questions and and a lot of the questions that were raised by other council members were on my list as well so i'll try to be quick as i run through these and to the point that was just spoke to by the mayor i mean if we're calling this property owner preservation program and it is an alternative to the program that already exists for tenants and the property owners are the ones doing the work i think we should be focusing on you know property owners you know how many property owners we can keep help keep solvent um particularly as the mayor was alluding to the ones that have less capacity to absorb the loss so uh you know and you know that this the individuals that sort of thing that own these properties as opposed to large investor corporations you know where i guess that's part of the risk you take you know so i'd like to stay focused in this program on that the uh probably my my top concern about this is the potential for fraud we've already seen it in all of these programs i think that have been pushed out so quickly at the federal level um and i'm concerned how do we prevent that from happening here what kinds of uh notices on the forums that people are signing that uh they realize that if they're attempting to defraud the city or the county on this program that it can have serious consequences so i'm concerned about that and then how after or either during or after the fact we will be able to come back and audit the program and and make sure that you know we do discover that and and reclaim funds if that's if that's happening the uh so i guess to answer the question i had were it's the intention to target both the large and small rental properties not just the big ones not just the little ones but all of them but they'll try to our best to do it on a level playing field and as you mentioned the home builders association and you know they have great communications the realtors association can certainly be helpful a lot of realtors are connected into the single family uh rental property market there's property management companies that owners of single-family properties especially in small apartments we'll use property management companies that would be a place to get the word out to and then i know at the beginning of this coveted crisis the city sent out a postcard to all of the businesses in the community directing them to where they can find out more information so i think that the suggestion for doing that to the uh property owners in our community that are on the rental tax roll that doing a postcard to them would certainly be good um it's important that they they be able to find out you know fairly how this is available to them the i do believe that particularly if we're not going to income qualify the tenants because of the complexity and time that that involves that we really should focus on the um what did you call it the rent reasonable level and i know there was initially there was a comment about gap filling that if uh you know there's a gap between what the rent normal rent is but what the rent reasonable amount is that this could go to fill that i would think that that would be a lower priority you know maybe in subsequent rounds if we have multiple rounds of drawings which was mentioned in the uh our homework that you know maybe it would be eligible you know for gap filling at that point but um i'm more inclined to think that you know we should try to help as many people significantly than you know a handful extraordinarily the um and to the point of how does how many how many grants can any one individual or entity get i would the number that came to my mind the note i made is that during each round that no no one entity could qualify for more than five percent of the available funds then if there was leftover funds then they're eligible again in the next round if they still have have need for it um i think that pretty much covers my concerns so within within that and the other questions that were raised i would like to see us you know authorize you to proceed but of course you know at the first meeting of october uh come back answer questions that you know are outstanding are left over not that any of our questions are ever that outstanding but the questions that remain and then look for authorization thanks okay um so that really does conclude our presentation this last slide really just talks about what we were trying to accomplish here with this program and how it's aligned to just our overall strategic alignment and strategy and so you know one of the things that we talked about at the beginning was the ability of our staff to be flexible and agile and the implementation of these programs and so these are the types of things that we're trying to do you know specifically within community services and then it drives you know just our overall investment in our business processes and being open to considering these types of programs um and to testing these things to see if they work for our community and then overall just the the alignment of our resources right getting this money out into the community getting it into the people's hands who needs it during this crisis and then ultimately our goal you know improving the community experience and improving the lives of the people we serve every day um so with that um it's we're looking for that consensus it sounded like we received it to move forward with the program and the identified funding source um but we're open to answer any final questions or verify that concept i haven't asked for a consensus so i'm not going to assume we have it yet we do have a question here thank you mayor um if i could go back to um under tenants on slide six the very last bullet is 30-day notice for future coveted hardships what exactly does that mean american council member thomas as one of the components of the colorado program that we felt was unique is as part of that contract they agree that if say is an example they get made whole for the past due um and that tenant becomes past due again that instead of just going and filing a five-day eviction notice for that tenant that they would give that tenant 30 days to cure so that was a unique thing from the colorado program that we thought would be beneficial here if i could continue um that was one of the things i know you know notable i thought was that this um and this was a state program in colorado not a municipal program and so i would i'm guessing anyway that the state might have more ability to um understand exactly what what other benefits are coming and going and i don't know whether we have that ability i do have some concerns about fraud on this um and i and i want to make sure my i my idea that what we were talking about here was property owner preservation and i feel like that's what we should focus on that i understand helping the property owner by helping somebody pay rent does help prevent somebody from becoming homeless becoming homeless but um [Music] this this money set us basically set aside to i at least the way i was understanding it was to help property owners that literally there's probably there's in fact i've heard about through other you know property managers and small investors that are really literally about to lose rental properties because they're struggling financially and their tenants are struggling financially so and this creates over you know you tip over the domino and then they all start tipping over so i really want to fo i would like to see this program focused not that we don't you know help multi-family but there are a lot of single-family small-time investors out there that are becoming increasingly concerned about their ability to hang on to these properties so thank you all right so we have a consensus to move forward there you go thank you okay miss borough can you introduce item number two please council item of special interest small cell and 5g technology mayor members of the council here to provide staff report will be led by don bessler he's our chief capital improvement officer and lisa collins our interim director of development services thank you vice mayor members of council my name is don bessler i'm with the engineering department and i'm accompanied by lisa collins with the development services department and in the audience we also have a couple of staff people mark gibson who manages our city right-of-way program and jesse peterson's here from the economic development office and i believe ryan lee's in here too that helps run our legislative program we're here today to give you a general overview and sort of an update on what's going on with the right-of-way and small cell technology as long as our small cell equipment and 5g technology we've got a number of slides and we'll do our best to sort of keep pace but we're happy to answer any questions that you have and and we'll just move through it like that um really what we're going to accomplish today is just an overview of the right of way in glendale and what's our market reality as to how we manage that right away what's the regulatory hierarchy that deals with this issue from the federal government the state government and local some of the terminology that we use to manage the right-of-way and issue permits for this type of equipment placed in the right of way several frequently asked questions that we might get and we think you you as elected officials get as well um our permitting approach that we use in glendale versus what our neighboring cities use and then lisa is here also to answer any zoning questions that you might have um i would say just to start one of the things that we've i've been doing this type of work for a while and i will tell you that it's probably the one sector where consumer the consumer is driving innovation more than any other sector of our economy it's just it's really consumer driven and that's not something that we're going to see change just as a little tidbit just in 2017 cell use and the cellular usage in the united states went up by over 50 percent in just one year so we see that we're going to see that techno technological advancements and the quest for innovation is going to be driven to for all of these providers to get their market share and we're going to see a continued pressure by the consumer for really two things one for innovation and price point but also as it relates to community living they want to have a more sensible approach to this equipment and infrastructure that that promulgates in cities and towns so with that as an introduction we're going to go ahead and get started and again uh be happy to answer questions and try to keep pace here if i know how to run this okay well wireless technology well for the first the first point is it's not wireless wireless technology is a piece of the equipment that's used for the overall system but with the issue of small cells all small cell poles are all small cell equipment that you would traditionally see in the right and we will show some images in a bit it's connected to a fiber optic backbone of some sort that goes somewhere it might go to a large tower it might go to a data center it might go into some other place but point of it is that all these small cell equipment that we're starting to see is connected to fiber fiber back calls data and backhaul's just a a jargon term for taking all of that the density of all that data and moving it somewhere where it can become useful and then cell towers um and now they're called small wireless facilities so sometimes you'll see the acronym swf in the in the literature um that serves as both the receiving and the delivery point for data that serves our smart devices this is just a can't see it as good as i would hope but this graphic just demonstrates generally especially for our viewers that you know how this wireless technology works the first circle there on the left is pointing out either a data center or some other place like a data center that's going to be the the repository for this it sends out um through hardline to either a large or a small cell and then in our home we have you can see that we're receiving it into the home and it can sometimes be through telephone lines but it can also be wireless and you can see that it gets distributed through the house hold for various smart devices some of the early technology that we're used to seeing on the left here this is a sort of second or third generation of a large scale cell tower as we go down you'll hear me use the term monopole that's where it's a single pole as opposed to the old the image on the right which is the old derrick style cell towers that we were used to seeing in the early early days so why 5g technology well 5g is really to do three things it's to improve um the speed improve the bandwidth and improve the or eliminate the latency and so speed is about how fast it transfers the data the bandwidth is how many devices can be put on a system and not overload the system and the third is just the the technology on the latency is the delay which is caused by processing slowdown so that's what 5g is about um that really that really captures it i'm gonna hit the next slide to give you a little bit of point of reference and and this has all happened in the last you know 15 years 3g technology which was common the graphic here demonstrates that you could uh if the the backdrop of this is what would it take to download the movie et everybody's pretty familiar with et it would take something like 14 hours if you were to do it with 3g technology with 4g technology it took notes here 16 minutes and with 5g technology it happens almost instantaneously that's the capacity issue that this technology is bringing bringing to bear in the marketplace and for our community so why do you have these small wireless facilities and we'll cover this a little bit later but you know the obvious question is well why do we have to have these things well i'll show you a series of build up slides here but it's really to eliminate gaps in coverage and allow that super fast speed that we're talking about and signals radio wave signals don't travel well through objects whether it's a building a tree or a natural obstacle a mountain or whatever they they just don't travel well so you'll see here in the next few slides what you have here is this is a image a graphic of a traditional old large cell tower this derrick thing and the four spots on the slide are just end users they just represent cell phones and so these large towers could throw out signals 45 55 miles and the further away you are from it the less the strength of the signal is and if there's any obstacle between you and it it starts to diminish pretty rapidly about the ability to take service so this example shows that you've got these you've got this large cell tower it's trying to reach these users and you can see in this instance there's trees as obstacles and they're creating line of sight issues for these radio waves and it creates disruption and service and it gets to this issue of reliability now all of a sudden you enter these um the small cell tower they're demonstrated in this graphic with the yellow poles and you're trying to fill in these gaps so that you can move this information more accurately to all the different people that are trying to to take access to it and then finally you can see the interaction that that happens here the large cell towers acting as a hub these small cell towers are filling in the gaps and the reliability of services is greatly enhanced give you a sense of the marketplace here in the valley definitely in glendale there's 19 different images up here that are re that range from different utility providers that we deal with they're not all telecom or wireless providers per se but all of these providers are having some impact on our ability to properly manage and use the right of way in the public utility easement so you can imagine the amount of pressure that comes to bear when you're in a marketplace that is thriving for innovation and a quest for faster and better and you have a number of providers that are wanting to make sure that they can get their share of the marketplace and here i think there's 19 different entities the right-of-way is finite this is just a typical example of what's going on in the right-of-way that we managed today in this in this instance you have water you have waste water you have fiber electric gas telecom storm sewer fire protection and in some of our older parts of town where we have narrower streets this becomes even a bigger challenge to make sure that we are able to provide access in a sensible way and i'll talk about our strategic imperatives on how we think about that in engineering and how we view it i'll get to that in just a few minutes as i said the market is is driving um innovation but it's also driving stewardship so in this instance on the left you see sort of the old traditional derrick style large subs macro cell tower and then they started to get these nodes in this sort of small cell technology and what you started to see not that long ago probably about 10 years with this is the proliferation proliferation of all of this other small cell infrastructure it was a bunch of wires and it was cabinets and things that were hung traditionally on telephone poles and you started to see that and then you started to see it where it started hanging on actual lines in the third image there and so what you see there again is the market's pushing innovation when i use the term stewardship it's us it's the cities that that have to say look it's not just about being better quicker and faster it's also about having a softer footprint in our neighborhoods and so you'll start to see that the marketplace has responded to this as we go forward all of a sudden the equipment's becoming more powerful it's a little sleeker it's starting to bulk down instead of bulk up and this is more starting this is what we're starting to see and this is probably the best way i would describe it is you're starting to see the market that embraces the nexus between technology and quality of life both of those things are real mark would tell you mark process is over i'll say this again in a minute over 1200 permits a year for various entities that use our right-of-way they are cognizant of having working towards a softer footprint aesthetics are improving these are renditions but we're starting to see equipment more like this again it's becoming sleeker it's becoming more powerful and you're also seeing these backbone providers like crown castle or even some of the major carriers that are trying to share equipment with some of the other smaller providers i know council member tomlichoff sits on westmark and she's been heavily involved with trying to put rules out there and and ideas that help exactly this to really push forward with making better technology in a more sensible way so that that's the kind of thing that you're going to see a lot i said a little earlier i referred to this whenever we have something that's really complicated i've learned in my career to try to really make it really take it to a place of guiding principles and so guiding principles and strategic imperatives are these are the things that we think about when we think about how do we manage the cities right way it's a very finite resource as i've said there's a lot of people that want to use it for a lot of things and it affects a lot of people who are neighbors to it so one we want to protect the city and private infrastructure from damage that is critical that we can't have things happening haphazardly out there where people's infrastructure is being cut cut into and and torn apart so that the next person can come along and do whatever it is they want to do we want to ensure fair access we don't pick winners and losers we don't say we like brand x better than brand y so therefore we're going to treat brandex in a manner that's different that's not fair so we're always about fair access we want to ensure as it gets to this quality of life issue that our vendors communicate forward to impacted neighborhoods that's not always been the case i'm going to give you example here in a little bit where with the help of council member aldama we were able to bring forward a concern for his district and i think we came up with a pretty good path forward and i'll talk a little bit more about the pilot on that um and then we on we want to be able to promote both quality of life and commerce our economic development people especially with the kind of businesses that are trying to locate in glendale rely heavily on technology to do the work that they do it's going to be important that we're able to make sure that they're able to be served so that's sort of the guiding principles the strategic imperatives that we think about in engineering and then all of the details that follow that the processes and procedure have to have to be measured against this our our construct of how we think about it i'm going to turn it over to lisa collins now the next few slides to talk about the role that zoning plays in this the zoning can at times have a role in this thank you mr mayor and members of council and thank you mr bessler yes so the next couple slides are going to talk a little bit about zoning control and so are there certain applications that must be approved yes uh the next couple slides will talk about that so the this industry is controlled by the federal communications um commission sorry and so that body regulates what states can do so the state also regulates what the cities can do through the arizona revised statutes so if you look in title ix that regulates the ability of town and cities to to regulate this type of use within the city and so when we're talking about the right of way and mr bessler is going to click to the very next slide which tells you very briefly what we can do and and there isn't a big role for zoning in this because we're talking about the use of utility poles so there's two different situations either there are existing utility poles if there are then the apparatus that's applied to the poles can't be 10 feet higher than the tallest pole within 500 feet it's a maximum of 50 feet bottom line there's no zoning regulation beyond that the the state again has sort of dictated what the city will do in terms of regulating these types of facilities on the other hand if there are no existing utility poles in the area then in essence it's going to be 40 feet above the ground level so are there instances where zoning would come into play sure mostly on private property and we've seen that and and have experienced that and it certainly can exceed those height limitations we do look a little bit at aesthetics in those situations also the right-of-way does have a zoning classification so if there was a desire to exceed these heights we would look at the specific zoning classifications and determine the heights to this date we you know have not seen that i wouldn't expect that we would i think there's a lot of consistency in the industry and so that kind of concludes the the zoning piece i will tell you that as an aside with our zoning ordinance rewrite that will obviously this is part of the zoning ordinance so that will be part of the rewrite and it'll be compliant with the fcc and the arizona revised statutes and again it does put some limitations the bottom line is that cities can do things to regulate but you know we can't prohibit these we have to figure out a way to allow them into the infrastructure so with that i'm going to hand it back over to mr bessler he's going to talk about the permitting process within the right-of-way thank you i do have one question yes uh and that is i guess two questions um so the only thing the city is able to regulate is the height of the pole mr mayor council member clark that's correct okay and i'm thinking of my street in particular uh it's a half mile long third 30 homes 15 homes on each side large lot properties no curb gutters sidewalk or street light so does that mean that one of these providers now has the right to come in and erect a 40-foot pole somewhere on that street mr mayor councilmember clark yes i believe they do okay thank you mr mayor i will continue um so on this slide and i and i want to just sort of add a little bit to what miss collins said that is that the height is about the aesthetic of it so we can regulate to some degree the aesthetic height in that instance and the other is the placement as it really relates to public health and safety or as i demonstrated earlier the placement in the right-of-way of how this equipment gets put so that we know it's not going to create problems with other infrastructure so talk a little bit more about that as we go through this so engineering by the numbers as i mentioned mark gibson processes over 1200 annual permits and licenses that he puts out there so on it you can imagine in 52 weeks out of the year you do the math on that it's a bunch it's constantly going sometimes you'll have a provider will come in and try to permit a big area with a bunch of permits and they may put those on it on their ready queue so that it's ready to go when they have a subcontractor they're usually good for i think it's six months and then after that they expire and they have to renew them um the majority of the permits require a pre-construction meeting so we don't just issue this permit on paper or even electronically and then these entities just go out there and start digging and doing stuff we have to have them we have a meeting a pre-construction meeting with our inspectors on site sometimes mark will be on on the call as well and they'll talk through the dynamics of that particular installation whatever it is and i'll explain that why that's important in a minute and then also every permit that we issue requires at least three inspections so that's a big deal so what i want to say is that we have an interaction with these providers it's not as if it's just a paper exercise and because of that there should be an expectation rightfully so that we have a sense of what's going on out there and we do know what's going on out there and we interact in a way that's helpful to our residents or our business owners and so you need i wanted you to know that and and it's fair um a little bit of the terminology you'll hear us talk about the right-of-way so basically we issue right-of-way permits it's for construction typically as i said i said six months 180 days so they'll pay for a permit and they'll have up to 180 days to work off of that permit you hear us talk about small cell licenses it's issued by the city to a wireless vendor to do maintenance on their system so and it's good for 10 years so if one of the providers put something in they would have to have one of these licenses to go do work in the right of way and so forth it's possible that they may be working partially in the street and then that could involve some other types of permits as well for street closures or street barricading you talk about the right-of-way i know you're all familiar with it maybe some of our viewers aren't as familiar but it's a corridor for infrastructure within public property typically to give to describe it generically it's sort of the back of the sidewalk to the back of the sidewalk but there are every possible combination of that from it's the back of the curb sometimes it goes into what looks like a person's front yard or side yard and so that's the right-of-way it's a it's constructed as part of the planning process and then there's this other thing called the pue which stands for the public utility easement and that like similar to the right-of-way that's a corridor that is identified and it can be on pub private property as well as public property and this will be where uh all of the utility providers whoever they are it may be unknown at the time of planning have access to the pue as long as it's fair and reasonable access and often especially in built communities like glendale you'll see the pue might cut through people's backyards or side yards or whatever and people may not realize that until there's a point of conflict and then that's when we get involved and try to help and i'll talk a little bit more about that as well we we talk about cable licenses it allows the entity to upgrade their infrastructure within the right-of-way and for cable television service a telecom license is a very specific license that we issue a fiber license likewise and then as i know the council is aware most recently we talked with you about franchise agreements and the city has two possibly a third franchise situation that we will that we manage from a franchise agreement some of the frequently asked questions that we get in the right-of-way are are can the city deny a provider from installing fiber or any utility for that matter in the right-of-way or the pue no we cannot deny them access to the right-of-way or the pue we can regulate just put a catchphrase to it we can regulate it to the extent we have authority but we can't eliminate it they have a legal right to be there we will always work with them in just a recent example where mark gibson got involved where they had a pue that cut through a bunch of backyards and this provider was considering doing alignment through a bunch of backyards and you can imagine how disruptive that could be we got them to agree to move their alignment into the right-of-way and it was a win-win for the neighborhood a win-win for the provider and we were happy to move past that does the city have to allow carriers to attach to city light poles we do not have to allow carriers to attach to city light poles but if you don't allow them to attach to city light poles in a way that's reasonable and sensible for us then they have the right to put up their own pole so now you have if you're unreasonably withholding that that option then you're going to have a proliferation of more poles than you would otherwise have pue as i mentioned people are less familiar with that it's the public utility easement again these are created usually at the time of planning where a developer will come in and plant a large area of development and one of the many things that's on that plat agreement is a public utility easement because there's an understanding that utilities will be necessary in the future utilities have a legal right to fair and equitable access to the pue i want to use them to clarify this in most situations when they go into a pue they must return disturbed property to equal or better condition now there are possible examples where that didn't happen or was not going to happen and it could be a situation where maybe a private property owner not knowing that there was a pue on their property built something and didn't have a permit to do it or they built it with the understanding or would have understood should have understood that if they ever needed to take access to the pue it might be at their own risk so there could be examples where that has occurred but our job is to try to eliminate that every time we have a chance to be helpful and intervene in that way and then the second question the pue is can the city intervene and deny access can we just say you know this guy doesn't want you in his backyard we don't have the authority to do that but again as i've stated we do have the track record and some authority to try to work with the provider and the resident or the property owner to come up with some reasonable sensible solution and we do that now i want to talk about you will hear especially as elected officials i'm sure that you've had any number of utility providers over the years talk to you and it's been my experience that the conversation something like this community is the hardest community that i've ever worked in to get a permit and then you start asking digging deeper and asking questions you're pretty sure you realize that's actually not what's going on that we have very state we have very good standards like we have up to 15 days to process an application we hit that mark more than 96 of the time so what really happens is they're just dealing with a particular problem issue and they're trying to get through it but they will always it so we're always being benchmarked if you will against other valley cities so here's an example as it relates to small cell towers of what our neighboring cities are basically doing there's a 10-day notification period that's required in all of these cities that we talked about so that the residents in a particular neighborhood get notified at least 10 days in advance before work commences they're required to do a door hanger or something akin to a door hanger like a flyer they also pay the same fee it's established by state law um house bill ryan could tell you what it is but it's house bill 2365. so it's a blanket fee res our communities can charge up to 50 i don't think they have to charge 50 across the state but glendale took it a step further and again i mentioned earlier we were very happy to get input from council member aldama for his districts and things that were happening and we're taking a step further we created a pilot to create photo simulation and i'm going to show you what that is um it's it's not mind-bending it's it's pretty easy stuff but we've we understand that absent information people have images in their head about what might happen and so it from our perspective it's best to help manage those expectations forward like we talked about in our guiding principles and our strategic comparatives by showing them there's no mystery to this we need to show them what it is is going to happen so we've started this we have a link set up on our website we have one specific project now with a before and after photo that i'm going to show you here in a moment and then our goal for it is to keep that website populated not necessarily with every permit and every piece of technology that we're going to permit that would be a pretty burdensome task but we will take the most recent type of technology and show photo imagery of what it's going to look like and then if they have more questions they can ask us and we'll tell them specifically what they can expect to see as well we have what we were finding door hangers that's not a new concept that's been happening forever but again it came to our attention that some of the subcontractors and most of these utilities up here that we've shown most of them use subcontractors to do a lot of their work they just don't carry the field staff to do that particularly for construction because that's market driven and cyclical but what we were finding and we had an example shown to us it was really poor the subcontractor working on behalf of a large well-known telecom provider had a very very poor effort at notifying the residents of what's going to happen it basically said your street's going to be torn up make sure you don't park on it and i'm glad that came to us because what we've done now through this pilot has created a template and the template has the minimal amount of information that must be on these door hangers or these flyers now i will say that this is probably the exception not the rule many of our providers have a track record of being very forward communicating and have good website information and good contact information and i put out better door hangers than this but this is the base that we will accept as a reasonable effort to notify residents of what's happening it has the identifies there'll be a logo on it that identifies who the carrier is it talks about what the description of work is so it might say it's going to be fiber install or it might say a small cell tower it's going to have specific project dates start and finish it has a description of what utility markings mean because you'll see different colors of paint out on the street and people aren't sure what that means and can obviously assume something worse than maybe what it is we will have a hotline that's provided phone number by the provider in addition to that we put the city of glendale engineering department's phone number so they can call us and we can say whatever it is we need to do to help make sure that they're informed and then if there's any special instructions on the bottom that describe don't park on the street between midnight and eight or whatever it might be so that's part of what came out of this pilot and then this is a photo simulation i apologize with the light in here it's a little harder to see but it's actually not bad it's essentially a city of glendale street light on the left side and it has a curved arm coming over and then above it is the installation of the actual 5g equipment that goes on top of it so this would be an example where the installation is going on a city of glendale streetlight so again that will be before and after information that's going to be on our website so that people again will have some imagery that will help them understand what they can expect and with that i really appreciate you letting us get through this because it's a lot and i will be happy and so will lisa to answer questions you might have mayor thank you appreciate it um mr ambassador thank you very much you and your staff and met with kevin on a couple issues in my district regarding south tower so thank you and uh mr freedline i just want the council to know that a little bit of history so um and so we did have full jurisdiction over approving zoning and the aesthetics of cell towers we had it we it had to come through us and we were able to approve or deny that was in 17 and then the state preempted us and because they wanted to be the first to have 5g in the country and with some information that mr lee sent me we were not even the first second or third state to have 5g so didn't help us at all so we relinquished our legislative authority to the state and so the state allows these cell towers to come to our communities and then a year after that they preempted us and allowed agreements for telecom for center center uh centurylink and cox and so they go both hand-in-hand uh the the cabling goes first and they come back put the cell tower up but i want to thank our staff because i had a couple of constituents call me that there was 5g towers going up in their front yard literally in their front yards miss clark just as you described it's right away but it's in your front yard it's your yard the pole and the sidewalk and the street and so we looked into it and while we were looking into it while janet was looking into with our staff i'm at home a couple weeks later and i get a eight and a half by 11 word document just just as best are described construction in your community from this state to this date from this time to that time have your vehicles out of the way here's the phone number that's it and so staff went out and uh really worked with these uh contractors to get you know now going forward they actually stopped the project for a couple days to make sure everybody was aware of it so they did a really really good job i thank you for that but but there's more than just the aesthetics of 5g i think there's a lot to learn about 5g that we don't know about the fcc has put out that that the sal towers are really safe and they're good to be around your communities and schools i'm not too sure that's a fact uh and we haven't done enough studies um to determine that so they're just going all over in our community i think the aesthetics and the communications is getting better but we know absolutely nothing about 5g south towers but you are absolutely right we are driving that to become more prevalent in our communities because of the use of of devices and internet and what and so forth um but this pilot program that you guys are having is going to have an impact but i challenge the the city to look into this further on the the you know the harm from 5g but also how do we work with the state to get some of that legislative power back to decide if those polls can go in our neighborhoods or not because they're going everywhere not just in the alcatel district they're going in everywhere in glendale and so i want to thank our staff for uh leading that thank you thank you mayor actually we're over here next i i just have one question from mr bessler what's the radius of a 5g how close do they have to be to one another a mayor council member clark so i'll make sure that i don't walk up to the precipice of the of my knowledge but i would say that the large cell towers in general go about 50 miles again it depends on the terrain yeah but we're talking about these new things that we're putting on light bulb light poles right what's their radius i'm going to say that it's less than 50 miles and that it works in harmony with each other i i wouldn't want to give you a range because i'd just be speculating but i can find that out for you and make sure that we follow up and get that to you i think that's important to to perhaps curb the proliferation of 5g poles going up everywhere is to know what the maximum distance radius is between them you know otherwise they're going to bamboozle us and tell them well we have to have them every 50 feet and that's not what we want but i i do want to follow up on what councilmember aldama said i know nothing about 5g i i would dearly love to have a work a council workshop on 5g and hear both the good the bad and the ugly about it be and so that we have some kind of information to make up our minds about whether as speedy as it might be is it speedily destroying our brain cells as well you know i i don't know so i would i would really like to see a council workshop on 5g milner thank you mayor um i too have had received quite a few requests or inquiries regarding 5g from residents and i'm sure some other council members had as well and um so i spent some time studying it and you know trying to figure out you know what is it all about um and but before i get there i wanted to ask some specific questions uh about where we are with 5g in the city um i think you've answered the question of what uh regulatory authority the city currently has which is basically none um we basically that i think that's what ms khan said is if somebody wants to put in a a a 5g tower they can put it on our light pole if we give them permission if they don't if we don't give them permission they can just go and plant that pole themselves and so that's of concern to me i think it needs to be a legislative item for us in the future for us to have the state look at that again and see if that's in the best interest of the state to continue to have that policy where we have no regulator regulatory authority i do know and it was alluded to here several times that the fcc controls uh basically this communication uh and so we don't have a lot of authority even in the state but there is some that we have lost recently and i would like to see us possibly look at getting that back and these questions you probably don't have answers to but i would like to see answers to them provided first let's talk about the the distribution i had some complaints from residents that 5g towers went up and they didn't know about it and so i want to know kind of what the distribution list is is it just using the 300 foot rule that we normally do with zoning requests or is it less or more than that mayor vice mayor i i want to say it's 500 feet but i'm going to look over for a knot yeah mark's nodding it's a 500 foot radius that we use and if there's it's not a hard and fast if we're going in and on the street and we're doing something it's it's usually got a fiber component as well so there's a alignment so we would air towards making sure there's more notification rather than less okay thank you uh mayor if i may have several more questions um if there is a a tower that goes up on private property does the city have any regulatory authority or or is there anything that happens there or or can a private individual just give permission for the communication tower to be put up so mayor vice mayor from the engineering department side unless they were taking access in some way from the public right-of-way or the well the public right-of-way we would not have any skin in that game that we may not even hear about it i would give you sort of an order of magnitude there's probably over 200 of these small cell towers currently deployed in the city limits and probably 20 that we've issued permits for i should say and 20 of the larger towers but there's more than that so they obviously got out there on private property um but that then becomes turns over into mrs or ms collins area which is zoning it could affect could be affected through zoning that's correct okay thank you uh if it may or if i may continue um i have heard and again this is where i think council members clarks a suggestion of a workshop would be very helpful to disseminate what's fact and what's fiction um that um the the test that there were tests done in downtown phoenix uh and these cell towers were put up every block in order to achieve the maximum coverage uh for this particular type of cell tower and i know there's different types of cell towers uh that there's a a low frequency which some carriers use and then there's a very high frequency and and the distance that these have to be installed are quite a bit different as well and so basically my question is can we get some information on what the plans are for the various carriers within our city what their plans are to install either the high frequency cell towers small cell towers or the low frequency small cell towers and how many they anticipate in order to get full coverage that they anticipate for the city that they would need mayor vice mayor we can do our best to try to get that type of information i would tell you that these utilities are pretty proprietary about their information we that doesn't mean that we can't get any information i think that we have as an example i use that sometimes they'll pull permits six months in advance so we have a sense we can have a sense of the area that they may be working in or have identified they want to expand into so i would say that we just need to go back and look at that and see what information could we provide you and just understand that we're only going to be able to provide you what we're told as a because you're talking about a private entity's business model i understand that mayor if i may to follow up on that question so what i'd like you to do then in if you can't get that information is to provide us information that council member clark alluded to which is how far will a a low frequency cell tower transmit and how far apart they need to be versus the high frequency uh cell tower how far they need to be apart from each other to have effectual coverage we'll do our best to find all of that information and put it in some sensible meaningful way okay and and my last question uh again i did quite a bit of study on um i reached out to some folks that i knew were involved with this they provided some literature and so this question has to do with the safety the health safety of of 5g because most of what i saw and there was a lot that there are some safety concerns with 5g and so the question is what scientific studies have been completed by the industry that 5g shows that it is safe for the human body and especially with the different frequencies of the 5g the lower frequency and the higher frequency i understand the higher frequency is has to be much closer because it doesn't transmit through things whereas the lower frequency will go through walls and buildings and those kind of things and so i'd like to kind of really understand i really like to know from a scientific uh basis where this is all at because these are the questions that i'm being asked for my constituents they're saying is it safe and i again we have no authority to stop it but i think that the community still needs to understand the safety of of these communication towers as we're putting them in so with that uh mayor thank you i think i think what would probably do all of us a lot of good is if maybe you could get with ryan or brent and they could ask one of the lobbyists representing sprint or verizon or someone like that to come out here and just just give us the lowdown they have the they have the people that understand the technology and and i think hearing it from them might do good for us rather than you trying to translate and figure out what we want to hear so i would hope that we could have that at a future workshop i'm i'm sure that they would accommodate i don't see a problem with that and that might explain why my popcorn keeps popping in the cabinet all the time yeah i was just kidding when i said that okay thank you mayor i can tell you i switched to the information technology and communications committee and nlc two years ago precisely for this reason beca and i was astounded to find at my very first meeting that more than half the people in the room were industry people so i don't know no offense to the industry people but i don't know if they're the most reliable resources they've got a very effective lobby that has literally tied the hands of local government arizona is one of the most restrict preempted states in the country if you're not aware of that the federal federally allowable fee annual rent fee is 270 dollars in arizona it's 50. so um but to spit to speak to uh what councilmember milner was saying the fcc one of the reasons people are afraid is because the fcc um i'm just going to read this from the fcc website is while there is no federally developed national standard for safe levels of exposure to radio frequency energy metal many federal agencies have addressed this important issue in addition to the fcc federal health and safety agencies such as the epa the fda national i'm not going to use the national institute for occupational safety and health and osha have been actively involved in monitoring and investigating issues related to rf exposure for example the fda has issued guidelines for safe rf emission levels for microwave ovens but not from 5g cell towers and it continues to monitor exposure issues related to the use of certain rf devices such as cellular telephones um small cell towers and other other things so part of the problem and that's one of the things that the itc committee and nlc has is really working hard to try to get the fcc to make some sort of declaration on the safety of 5g because there there is nationally a lot of concern on that um my and the safety concern is one thing and i mean i've actually said this and maybe i wasn't as nice as you were in the in the westmore committee and even into some of the industry people is how do we keep you from uglying up our community how do we how do we work with you i understand and there's a voracious appetite out there in the for the consumer for faster access to information and i know they're trying to meet the consumer demand for that and i know what we did with the large cell towers was and i might not say this exactly right is but we couldn't the only thing we could do is incentivize um them and i believe our process now is it's strictly administrative process if it's a disguised tower a big tower if they disguise it it's an administrative process to get that put up and it saves them time and money am i correct with that a mayor council member that really falls into the zoning thing so i'm going to let miss collins answer that yeah thank you mr mayor council member tommel chop yes um you know review of all of these uh types of facilities are an administrative process now yes as long as it's disguised if it's a regular you know silver ugly tower with a bunch of you know spaceship looking things hanging off it that they have to go through a cup i believe is that right at one point they did they no longer have to do due to the change in state law so my my point is i would really rather waive the fifty dollar fee if we could get them to make these things i mean the the picture and i know whose house this is i won't say whose house this is but i know whose house this is um do they they have to get to 50 feet i mean i mean this thing would be way less ugly i think if it wasn't sticking they didn't make the pole longer and then put you know i mean i wouldn't nobody wants that in front of their house so is there anything we can do i know i in a in a recent westmarc meeting i did ask a wireless representative um and they said oh no we're doing like art um you know we're making them aesthetically pleasing and then we verified we went back and and ryan helped actually facilitate this conversation and that really wasn't exactly the case so i mean is there anything we can do um you know would they be willing to if we waive the 50 or something like that i'd rather not have the 50 and not have something so ugly in front of people's homes so because we do have a little authority here we can say no you're going to have to put your own then i guess they can put put it up as an ugly thing as they want but it costs them more to do that than to mount on top of our poles so that's why i'm wondering is if there's some way where it you know they their cost is much lower to do this fifty dollar a year lease to put this thing on top but can they make it not so ugly mayor councilmember tom lechoff i i think the comments that we've heard today really get at the core of of how we're going to get to the place you're describing and that is working together i mean as staff you heard me say the first thing that we get told by these various providers is why is it so harder so much harder in glendale or why is it so much harder in surprise or whatever that's usually the first thing the first volley over the bow of the ship continuing to work on these committees that you're at continuing to work with our legislative staff i think that's going to get a cohesiveness with the valley cities in particular to where we're all speaking the same language and we're all sort of speaking to the same in place that coupled with as i said i think these providers to the in fairness have understood that the consumer is demanding a lighter footprint and how they get there takes some time but i mean we'll we're seeing another evolution of these polls where the ground equipment the cabinets that would usually be separate are now being designed to be part and engineered within the poll itself so i know there's a desire to sort of get there but i think it's a combination of taking back some of that voice that you were describing through legislative authority and doing in a way where we're doing it cohesively regionally because this is a regional i mean it's bigger than a regional issue but we're dealing with it on a regional basis um and and so that's how we're going to be measured i think it's all of those things thank you and that my my point is is that usually what what matters most and and you know in commerce is cost so i mean 50 a year i don't know how much we're actually getting for dollars a year but i mean if that was a way to incentivize i mean i don't know if there's a portfolio of of different looking or do they all look like this long skinny you know it looks like a missile or something almost that is on top of a streetlight i mean it's really not appealing so um that's i mean i like i said i understand and i and i want to we i want to i know we all want to be partners with this industry because there's our consumers our residents demand you know faster speeds and but we're not going to if we fill our community up with these all of these ugly things all over we're not going to be able to put the genie in the bottle once they're out there they're out there they're not going to come take them down and replace them with something else so thank you i i guess i would disagree with you because when technology changes five years from now they'll be doing something totally different again it never stops evolving that's that's the amazing thing about this at least they're getting smaller not bigger mayor over here thank you and you are absolutely correct um this is really a a small city medium city fighting against a giant and we're not going to win the fight it just we may win the fight we're not going to win the battle i'll tell you that or the war but all i'm asking is and i heard from some of the council members let's just not get out of their way and let them run a muck in our community so what we're doing now is a good start but as long as i'm serving here i'm not just gonna get out of the way and let them do what they do so whatever we can do some great ideas let's do it whatever we can however we can educate a community to let them know what's coming up in their front yard uh that's that's our responsibility and so i want to thank the council members for other ideas on this item thank you mayor mayor remember this account this is a presentation that we knew would be both informative to the council and frustrating to the council and we knew that there wouldn't be a lot of happiness after sharing what our limitations are my concern is your city manager asking us to go and to try to understand the safety and the health of of the technology is way beyond the capabilities and understanding of anybody that we have on staff and i think speaking to councilman aldama's issue and councilman tomachoff who sits on committees this is really a broader discussion perhaps rather than have us identify studies to draw a conclusion as to whether they're safe or not perhaps a better approach would be to have us work with our league of cities and have them maybe suggest they facilitate a community discussion involving all of the cities and and let them put their resources towards research and drawing upon you know best practices and what's happening and maybe do it rather than at a city of glendale level maybe encourage them to do it as a as really as more of the regional discussion on this issue i think a i think they we can get better information and more energy put into the uh to the the research b i think it's a way to get the attention of the industry because while they have regulatory authorities that are granted everything from title 48 the federal government down to the state level they are still always sensitive to public sentiment and they don't they never want to push that envelope too far so i think it'd be a better way to get the industry engaged on this and so again i know what the request has been is for our staff to come back and provide you with information i will tell you i just don't know how we would do that all we would really be doing is researching studies and providing those studies i don't think we would be prepared to draw a conclusion as to the safety but maybe a better way to do this and and perhaps councilman thomachoff who sits on the committee might have a better insight on this i suggest we do it and ask our league of cities here in arizona to really to put some energy and time on furthering this discussion and make it a regional discussion because i will assure you you're not the only council that's getting calls from your constituents about the technology and as they start as they start kind of going forward more and more i think those calls will increase that would be my recommendation uh that we maybe we push this more to a regional discussion and and go from there mayor thank you mayor i agree i think we should have a much broader conversation that doesn't uh prevent us from having workshops that can continue the conversation however and you're absolutely right as long as we have a significant footprint in that conversation um if we're just gonna be um if we're not gonna have a large role in that then that's probably not the route but we have we have a member of the committee there that can assist so as long as we're significantly involved i agree mayor that's why i wanted to throw it out there thank you mayor that the fcc and osha and fda they have they have they've they've ruled on microwaves but so you know it asks staff to bring back data when you can't get these federal agencies to to maybe nobody even knows yet you know i mean how much radio frequency is a safe amount of radio frequency i don't know um you know how you but if the federal government hasn't been able to determine that i don't know i don't know where else we would get the information so um i know europe has has gotten pretty strict um with the 5g over concerns um but i don't know what data is out there and i i don't i agree with you uh sending mr city manager that the it's really not the staff's place and i mean i'd be happy to work with ryan um on on you know trying to move something forward with the league and see if there's anything i mean we are very restricted already in arizona so i don't know what we would be able to do but other states across the country complain about 270 dollars i'm like you guys don't know how good you have it so all right you don't need any action this is just for conversation right okay so we'll move on to our next item city manager's report mr phelps uh mayor members of the council i have three items to bring to your attention uh tomorrow the maricopa association government's releasing a report it's an 18-month study to that benefits the airmen and the families of the luke air force base and this re this report targeted four areas that included economic development transportation housing and education our staff here in glendale we were the lead project lead around the transportation issue tomorrow they'll be hosting a a virtual launch about the study and uh and our and our mayor mayor wires will be uh providing some initial comments on that but if you need information on wanting to to view that please contact my office i'll be glad to get your information um as you know we've been having a number of meetings for our bond education that will be coming up in the november vote and so far our staff and the citizen bond committee have now completed seven of the 15 public meetings that we provided you on the schedule that would be taking place prior to the vote in november you know kind of consistent with things we're dealing with in terms of public turning out to events not just during the pandemic but it's a challenge to get them out even under optimal conditions the attendance has been quite low in fact one of our meetings that we had we had two people show up on that the the staff however has done a great job of really of reaching out and using technology as a way to reach out and connect with our citizens and to to provide that information and so one of the things they have worked really hard on is they they did a facebook live meeting um on the 15th and during that one meeting we reached approximately 1700 people during that one meeting we had dozens of comments online that came in and and we we know that over 250 people clicked on and kind of forwarded information to other people so we think this is a has been a tremendous success and we're going to continue to do that between now and november as we continue to try to educate the the public on the on the measure that the council had put on for the november uh bond the the final thing is as you know this uh past week was emmy's week um i think jimmy kimmel called it the pan emmys uh because of the pandemic but uh within the overall emmys of course we're we belong to the rocky mountain southwest chapter and uh our is you know we had a number of things that were presented for consideration and uh we were able to take home a couple emmys and first like to mention mike harris some of you kind of know him as glendale mike and and he was inducted into a very uh very esteemed item called the civil circle the the sil the silver circle is only awarded to people who have a minimum of 25 years of career excellence in the field and mike is one of those and so we should congratulate mike for receiving that we also received in one of the most competitive categories we received an emmy under what's called the branded content long forms this is for longer productions that were there and in this particular one it was a feature called cool stuff hot spot c plus d industry and so this was on one of our downtown glendale merchants that had recently in the last couple years purchased a building and renovated it and has moved in and and so this was produced by our public affairs division uh the writer and host was jay crandall as well as our away the lead photo journalist was uh louis assinto and uh also matt groge mike harris and roger radley all all contributed to this and again this was a great program that drew attention to one of our downtown businesses and uh again we received an envy for that and with that mr mayor i conclude my report thank you to the attorneys no report thank you council items of special interest next on the agenda is just that each council member has the opportunity to indicate topics they'd like to have discussed by this council at a future workshop mr aldama thank you mayor um not necessary necessarily it's an item of interest but doesn't require a workshop just have a memo sent out to this to uh council members should they be getting calls from um business owners in the uh downtown um i'd just like to make sure that you also with what i'm going to ask uh communicate this to the um the slag leadership group for the downtown manager uh so i've been getting a lot of calls and and i i know somewhat the plan from staff but with regard to the many dead trees and plants and bushes around downtown and some of our alleyways folks want to know why we're cutting trees down and leaving six foot stumps up and putting them putting the holiday lights on those and why are we putting holiday lights on dead trees and then finally just what is our replant strategy and plan citywide but also downtown but i know that some of my business constituents want to reach out to the council members and they should be prepared to be able to answer that and so if you'll get us a report and a memo not necessarily a workshop thank you mayor that's my report nothing mayor thank you councilmember hugh yes i have something mayor i would like to request that the city manager explore how the city can add a second dynamically staffed medical response unit to our fire department the rapid response unit would be assigned to our most active fire stations over the past several months i've heard a second nyu would help maintain the city's excellent response times and improve the services we provide to our citizens as we continue to grow because we have already passed our 2021 budget i would want the city manager's proposal to stay within the existing approved public safety budgets i think it'd be great if we could have the second nyu operational no later than the start of the fourth quarter of our current budget as time is important i am requesting the city manager to provide his recommendation as soon as possible thanks mayor thank you councilmember thomas your microphone's not on i turned my microphone on excellent ideas and i don't know um if staff is taking an inventory we've got dead trees all over the city this hot summer has really stressed a lot of our trees and they're everywhere so um it might be more time you know better use of time to do it citywide so um but i do have an item of interest of my own i would like to have a discussion about the council adopting of financial policy around if we're fortunate enough to get these bonds passed in the next election that are we want to stay within our existing debt ceiling that our intention that we draft a financial policy um that states that we are going to be fiscally responsible and as we pay off debt we're going to go back out but we're not going to bond for all these bonds all at once so to bring that back to a workshop thank you anything else thank you councilmember turner uh thank you mayor um what councilmember thomas had just raised i would concur with that i think the concept is is that if i correct me if i'm wrong that the council consider adopting a policy that says we're not going to need to raise taxes uh property taxes in the future based on the bonds that hopefully may or may not but hopefully would pass in november that we would be doing it within the existing tax and uh structure that we currently have that's what we're saying i would certainly jump on board with you there thank you that's all i have here which mayor i would concur with councilmember thomas joff's recommendation thank you you have nothing yourself okay all right i have nothing motion to go into executive session i have a motion i have a second any discussion hearing none all in favor of what i any opposed about napier guys have it do have it council meeting is recessed [Music] so [Music] do [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Music] foreign