[Music] and welcome to the April 8th, 2025 planning commission meeting. I'm Banny Miller, chair of the commission. As always, I ask everyone to please be efficient in your comments and avoid redundancy so that we can hear um from as many viewpoints on as many cases as possible. We start every meeting with an opportunity for the public to comment on an item not contained on the agenda. Are there any members of the public who'd like to speak on an item not on the agenda today? And seeing none, we will move on to the consent agenda. We have one item on consent Z7022 at Glenwood Avenue, Lakean Drive, and Winchester Drive. We heard this item at our last meeting where there was some open question about whether the applicant could make additional changes to the case. Since that meeting, our staff attorneys have determined that the applicant may make additional changes and the applicant has expressed their desire to do so. The deadline for action on this case is tomorrow, April 9th. So, the applicant has requested an extension in order to make changes. Um the proposed timing on consent is it 60 days on Yes. So the consent agenda um recommendation is to is to request from council a 60-day extension of our planning commission review. Is there any uh discussion on this topic? Seeing none, I'd like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor by show of hands. Is that a Yes, Commissioner Bernett? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Any opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Could I just clarify exactly when this item will come back? Is it the uh if council should grant our 60-day extension, then the applicant has requested that we hear this item again at our May 27th planning commission regular meeting. So assuming that that is granted, we will um defer that case until that time without Thank you. Um moving on to um committee reports. There's one item under committee reports from our text change committee and we will now turn to committee chair uwell for the report. Thank you, Chair Miller. On March 19th, the text change committee met to hear discussion on TC 10-24, which is uh in short, it removes garages from the gross square footage for the maximum size for cottage courts. Uh it was a citizen petition text change approved by council on 24th for consideration and staff came to us with this change. Um the issue has been that because garages were included in the square footage calculation for cottage courts, it was making it difficult to market the product. Um the petitioners talked about how a recent change to the ordinance had revised things where they had been building cottage courts with garages that were not included. But the change has required them to uh detach the garages which are not as marketable or create a much smaller square footage living space. The text change removes garages from the gross square footage area and instead applies a uh instead of measuring gross floor area now it's going to measure conditioned space. And it allows a maximum of 500 square f foot unconditioned accessory either attached or unattached which could be used for a garage or shed. So in effect it increases the uh uh accessory area by 50 square feet and removes garages from the calculation for the living space. Uh there was a unanimous uh approval to recommend uh unanimous a decision to recommend approval from the planning commission and uh if there's any questions I'll be happy to discuss and if not I'd be happy to make a motion. Thank you very much. Any further discussion? Then I'll entertain a motion. All right. Uh, with respect to TC10-24, I move to adopt the proposed consistency statement dated April 8th, 2025 contained in the agenda materials and to recommend approval of the zoning text amendment. Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion? I do have one quick question. Um, the I was looking through this and I apologize because I was not did not participate in the committee part because I had to miss that day. But um increasing I I would assume this would increase I know it's a very small amount but increase the impervious area by 50 square feet on any given cottage court lot. We just I hadn't seen anything in the report about storm water on that. So I'm just curious if they had a take on it uh because it seems like it would increase impervious area with holding all else equal. I believe that impervious uh surface is limited more by the setbacks and the minimum lot size arrangements for the development and that's what will uh it'll still maintain the same impervious allowances as prior. Okay. So it wouldn't so it would not hold all else equally. It would correct and they'd still be subject to all the storm water rules that from the new storm water manual. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Any further discussion? Well, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Any opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Moving on to old business. We have one item on the agenda today. Um it's resoning case Z4324 at Athens Drive. For this item, the commission has already received a full staff presentation, applicant presentation, and heard from the public. Our focus today will be on any updates or changes to the case since our last meeting. And we will now turn to Matthew Burns for a presentation from the city. Good morning, Sher Miller, members of the planning commission. Matthew Burns with Planning and Development. So, this case last appeared at the March 11th planning commission meeting and since then the applicant has revised the request from a general use to a conditional use resoning and your deadline for action is May 10th. Just a reminder that this site is uh in west southwest Raleigh, pretty close to Lake Johnson and the Crowder Woodland Center. The applicant is proposing a single zoning condition which would prohibit uh retail, eating establishment, cemetery, and outdoor sports facility uses. And just a reminder that uh this request is going from a uh residential to a mixeduse district, which would uh allow for an increase in entitlement and unlock some building types that are not permitted in R4. And uh this request is consistent overall with the comprehensive plan inconsistent with the future land use map and consistent policies are related to uh managing commercial development impacts housing variety and zoning for housing whereas inconsistent policies are related to the future land use map and then response time standards for fire. So if this request were approved then uh the feature line use map would be amended from low-scale residential to mediumscale residential. Your deadline for action is May 10th and there are no outstanding issues. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you very much. We have already received public comment on this case but so I can get a sense. By show of hands, are there any members of the public who'd like to speak on this case today? I see a few. Um, in that case, I would like to grant an additional five minutes to each side. We'll start with the applicant and those in favor, please come to the podium and introduce yourself. Good morning. Thanks for hearing us again. Uh, my name is Arthur Gordon. Uh, longtime resident here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I ran the Ireardless Cafe for 45 years. This was the first restaurant in the city to be vegetarian, to go non-smoking tobacco. Uh it was part of uh what was the right thing to do 50 years ago and we feel like this piece of property is the right thing to do now. Um we've owned the garden for 12 years and I don't know if I made it clear last time we were one of the first um applicants. We helped um redo the UDO so that there could be community gardens within the city of Raleigh and we were the first community garden. We've been running it as a community garden. The food was going to the restaurant and um and then in the last three years we made it more of a private situation where we had a a farmer on site. She uh used the uh the acreage produced $90,000 worth of sales last year selling at the Kerry Farmers Market. So, we feel like it's not a pie in the sky idea that we're going to put a garden there. The idea being that it's already shown that a garden can produce enough revenue to pay for someone's salary. Um, and uh, at the moment I'm volunteering and teaching uh, cooking at Athens High School one day a week. So, we feel like we're part of this community. We don't feel like we're dropping in from Atlanta or someplace. We feel like that we are sensitive to the needs. The street itself is wider than a a neighborhood street. There's literally a bus stop right out in front of the the place. It just feels like it can bring together populations with a um affordable housing, maybe co-housing, co-ownership, different things can be uh tried at this space. But the key piece for me, for my for my wife and I, is that the garden itself becomes the the focus to not only offer affordable housing, but also to offer purpose so that people have something to do that that puts them in part of this community. and the shared space, but more importantly the shared community uh lends itself to what we think is unique about this piece of property. We don't feel like that we're um asking for 20 stories. It's a 50-foot, you know, three-story building wouldn't be much different than say a large mansion that we build in other parts of the city. Um, and we didn't add any other conditions in terms of storm water because if the garden part goes through, we want the water. We want to retain the water. We want cy turns. We want to use the water. We're not trying to run it down the hill. Um, in terms of traffic, there's not much we can do about that other than the street's wide enough that uh with a stoplight there, I think everything could be handled without very much expense. There's lots and lots of benefits to uh having a garden. Obviously, the food supply, um health purposes, it creates community, and there's environmental benefits of urban agriculture. So, we we we like this idea since we brought it up the last time. We got a little bit of press in the indie. Uh people reached out to me and were very very positive about it. And also there was a lot of interest in nonprofits willing to step forward and help with disabilities of different kinds that certain amounts of the apartments could be used and it wouldn't all just be for one particular type of group of person. So we feel like that this has farreaching but the but the piece that I like the best about it is that I feel that it is replicable that this is a 2 and a half acre track of land. We're not talking huge pieces that the city itself speaks to the fact that it wants affordable housing, but once you have affordable housing, how do you create a community that wants to live on that property, that wants to take ownership of that property? And we feel like that this uniqueness around a garden um would would really serve Raleigh well. And once again, we'd like to be pioneers in trying to make this happen. Thank you. Thank you very much. Are there any members of other members of the public who'd like to speak in support of this project? Then seeing none, we will move on to um public comment. Additional public comment for anyone opposed to this case. Please come to the podium. You have a total of five minutes to speak. Good morning. Um, hearing Mr. Gordon talk this morning, um, I have to agree that this sounds like a really great thing. Um, for the people that live adjoining that property, uh, all 29 homes of us, we can't see our way clear to be in favor of this at all because once Mr. Gordon sells the property, um, he loses control of that and has expressed no interest to stay involved with whoever he sells to. Um, so our fear is we're going to have 67 apartments up there, 10 stories higher than what's allowed to be built in R4 right now with increased traffic right at an intersection of a school. Um, we just think it's uh it it's not the right fit being how the Gordens are going to step out of this uh at the end of the sale. He said before in some of the public comments that they were tired, they were 75, they were wanting to step away, and I totally get that. And uh but you if you're going to invoke something like this, it would seem that you would have to stay into it and stay uh committed and involved uh from this point forward. And he's not seen that. So we're not in favor of it simply for the fact that we don't see this really able come being able to come to fruition uh because the leadership won't be there and he has no control over who he's going to sell to. So thank you very much. And could you introduce and share your name again? Oh, I'm sorry. Larry I'm Larry Shelton. I'm one of the homeowners in the uh Athen Woods neighborhood behind. Thanks so much. Are there any other members of the public who'd like to speak in opposition to the case? Then seeing none, we can bring it back to the table for additional discussion and followup. Who'd like to get us started? Commissioner Fox. Um, overall I think it's a very interesting project that has the potential to be a model as you mentioned Mr. Gordon. Um, if I take that out of the equation, the current ownership or leadership, which I understand is a concern to the neighbors, um, I am supportive of putting density near a school uh, just in general. Um, so at the appropriate time, I'm uh, ready to support this case. Thank you. Other thoughts from the commissioners? Commissioner Otwell. Thank you, Chair Miller. Um, I was hoping staff could refresh my memory on what the setback and transitions rules would be for a RX3 mix district next to the R4. Is it R4 or R six? I believe they're R4. R4, correct? Yeah. Um, so the neighborhood transition would require at least a 10-ft uh separation between the mixeduse district and uh the residential districts, and that could include something like a fence um and plantings. There are several different options that you can choose as part of a neighborhood transition yard. So it would be up to a future developer which which option they chose but at least 10 feet. Thank you. Additional comments from commissioners. Yes. I have a question. I know that in the last uh planning commission meeting there was some concern around the lack of conditions um for this case because of uh like what the gentleman said once this property is sold. As much as this sounds like a great vision, whoever buys the property is up to them. So even when he speaks of affordability or putting a a community garden there, that's not certain because of the lack of conditions on this case. And I think that the last time that they were here in front of the planning commission, uh, a couple of commissioners said that they would be more willing to support it if there were conditions. Can I ask why there are no conditions? So the applicant did revise the case from the last time it appeared from a general use case which does not have any conditions to a conditional district and they added um this condition which prohibits certain uses including retail um restaurants, cemetery and outdoor sports facilities. Right. So, so those are uses that are otherwise allowed in the RX district that they're asking for, but they chose to prohibit those since especially retail and eating establishment are uh generally considered more intensive uses. And just so I'm understanding or I'm clear, like can there be conditions that lead the property to what he's saying he wants it to be? like yes, those conditions were added to make it to where there's no retail store, eating establishments, all of that type of thing, but that doesn't speak to his vision for the site. So, is it possible for there to be conditions that speak to the vision of the site? So, I believe community gardens are permitted by right in RX. I can double check that to be sure. In terms of affordable housing, we sometimes see conditions related to affordability, but they would have to be offered voluntarily by the applicant, right? Which would be him. Yes. Can I ask then? Sure. Like since he's saying he wants affordability and this is not a mandate from us, since he's saying voluntarily that he wants affordability and things of that nature, then why isn't that a condition that you added? Would the applicant like to respond? um to I'm I'm not going anywhere. You know, I mean, I'm I may be 75 years old, but you know, the vision of what this is intended is something that I want to see all the way through. And since the last time I've here, I didn't I have not reached out to other developers yet because I wanted to see if we were going to get the zoning or not. And just in the number the amount of interest since I spoke to you last time was is that hope North Carolina has spoken to me. The UNCC center for excellence in mental health has spoken to me. CASA has spoken to me and POA has spoken to me. So the people that I'm reaching out to are people who are tied into this vision. And so I don't want to saddle them with saying, "Oh, you can only do this." They may find that they have other reasons for doing it. the same reason why I didn't put conditions on for storm water. I'm figuring that once we get to permitting, then the impervious impervious, you know, things get taken care of under the permits that are already there. So, I'm not trying I'm trying to open the vision, not channel it too much so that no one else can possibly do the project. Not just because I'm not familiar with all the different ins and outs. Thank you. Thank you. If I may follow up with a question from from staff, I do want to um acknowledge Commissioner Omay's point that we did hear from many neighbors last time um that had many concerns particularly with respect to the commercial uses and the potential commercial uses. I too had concerns about that when you add a new commercial use in a uh residential area, the type of restrictions we typically see or conditions on those cases um with respect to noise and hours of operation and those kind of things by eliminating um the uses for retail and eating establishments. Could you help us better understand the potential commercial uses that that would remain? Sure. Uh so some commercial uses that would be still be allowed would be uh offices uh medical which includes some medical offices uh daycare homes and daycare centers uh hospitality house and health club beauty salon optometrist things like that. So and I believe also bed and breakfast and short-term rentals. What uh those all are are are all commercial uses that would be permitted under this requested zoning. And to follow up with Commissioner Wakaya's question about the community garden, uh so it is permitted in RX, but it's subject to some limited use standards including uh you know a certain percentage of sales. There's limitations on you know how many how much produce can be sold and locations of tents and signs and things like that. But yeah, I I I would say medical and office are the big commercial uses that would still be allowed. Okay. I will say while I I'm supportive of density here, my concern um is more with respect to the commercial and the residential area, not with respect to adding density. I think there was some open question from some um one of the neighbors about the height, the changes in the height entitlement. Could you clarify the difference between um what's permitted today and what the proposal and how how that would change the height? Yeah, certainly. So, currently the height limit for detached houses and single family homes would be 40 ft. um that would still apply in this mixeduse district if they were to build uh a single family home or a detached house, but an apartment building or a general building could go up to 50 ft. So just 10 additional feet. Yes. Okay. And I'll also note that regardless of commercial uses that are uh well the the office uses and uh that would still be allowed would be limited to a maximum of 4,000 square feet and most of the limited most of the commercial uses that would still be permitted under the zoning are subject to specific standards to limit their impact and their footprint. So in some cases that's hours of operation. Uh and the square footage is the big one too. Okay. So these remaining um uses permitted uses would have limitations on hours of operation. Not all of them but some of them do. What do you think is are the remaining uses that are potentially the most intensive? I would say probably office would be and there's no time limits there. I'm sorry. And there's no time limits with respect to those. I can double check for hours of operation. I'll need to double check. Just a second. I know typically the concerns with office buildings in residential are more related to parking and those kind of things. Um less about hours of operation. But while while he's looking at that, other comments from commissioners. Yes, Commissioner Peeler. Um, I am just curious. I hadn't recalled seeing convenience stores outlined in a condition before and I didn't find it in our UDO. Is that a thing we've done in the past specifically? You know, what defines a convenience store? Because I couldn't find that in any of the city's language. So, uh, we discussed this internally and I spoke to the applicant about it. Uh so retail retail is the umbrella commercial use and it does list convenience goods under that list. But it prohibiting something as specific as a convenience store is tricky because what is a convenience store? That definition might vary from person to person and since it's not a principal use that's normally what we see prohibited. So after discussion with the applicant, they revised it from convenience to retail store. Okay. It's a little retail is a little bit more specific. Uh convenience can be up to interpretation and uh is harder to enforce depending on what kind of business would want to go in the spot. Um and to uh answer your question about office, it is subject to hours of operation. uh between 6 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. Okay. Thank you very much. Other comments? Yes, Commissioner. I have a question for staff just um it might be outside the confines of this particular case. So, I I might be asking you about other projects with affordability in them. So, other affordable housing projects that I'm thinking of around Raleigh. often they have within the building some type of um medical service provider or an office or a daycare. Has that been the experience around Raleigh with other affordable housing projects? Am I remembering that correctly? Not that I am aware of, but it's it's possible. I'm not sure though. I I I've not encountered that personally. And I I could speak to that. If you're talking about like a latte or tax credit project, um within the site, it's actually not allowed to have retail because of how tax credits. No, not not retail. I'm not asking about retail like daycare, medical that that could be. Yeah. There's daycare on site. There's sometimes a medical service provider. Often a mental health service providers occasionally included. Um I'm thinking specifically of a project I'm working on in Durham. I would imagine it's pretty similar in Raleigh. I when it gets into like office uses of like a private medical care, I'm not sure. I I think it has to I think it has to be on site for the residents only, I think, but I'm not sure about that. I'd have to look that up. That sounds that sounds accurate. Okay. I'm just um I'm imagineering why we might um keep those as potential uses in a in an affordable project. Mr. Burns, can you clarify whether that condition prohibits those uses as primary use, principal use? Yeah, they are principal uses. And so do you believe that accessory use would be allowed those types of use for so for medical um I think you mentioned medical daycare the the list of medical uses that would be permitted subject to limited use standards in RX would be ambulatory surgical center blood plasma donation um urgent care medical clinic medical daycare things like that so like smaller offices uh in terms of accessory uses the they would not be able to do like an accessory retail store since they're prohibiting it the principal use. I I think that's what you're getting at them. Thank you, Commissioner Bernett. Question for the applicant. Um, what has the school administration or andor faculty what has been their feedback pro opposed? Um, and a two-part question actually regarding uh public transportation if you could shed some light on that for me since I'm kind of new to the table. Thank you. In in terms of the school, it's been um handing glove. They they Athens Drive also has a future farmers a program. They have goats on campus. They they want to do a garden. Um so there has been crossover. They don't have to get a bus to come over. It's literally considered part of the property. Do they just cross the street? Um some of the classes have come over and done uh marketing programs. Some have done farming programs. Some have done just plantings. there's been a there's been a constant u confluence uh it's it's an asset to the school um and uh and in return I guess I was thinking how do I make this happen and I realized gee if I go across the street and teach cooking then um I can't tell you how exciting that is has been for me it's you know I'm now talking to 15 years old kids and uh and I'm giving them something active to do every day. I've created a tremendous relationship. Um they're really enjoying it and and the school is getting ready to do um some major remodeling. But you know, one of the ideas that we've been trying to work on is is that the school itself has a garden, but during the summer months there's nobody there that can tend to it. we have somebody on site who's dealing with gardening and we could create a confluence where they could, you know, watch over it during the summer months so that it's available during the fall and the winter when they're there. The other question you asked about uh transportation, I think it's bus number 11 stops right in front of the place. So, this would eliminate the need for a lot of parking for people. you wouldn't have I the city doesn't require parking permits, but the fact that not everybody has to have a parking permit uh would would would add to the value of this property. And the ideas that we were talking about with commercial is the small room where you have the mental health person coming or where you have um families that are working and can't get back until after 5:00. Someone could watch over your children. We're not trying to create a commercial space. We're trying to create a safe space that the community watches over everyone else in the community. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll add one additional um issue about the school from the last meeting was there was some concern if there was a retail store across the street that that might be um a draw for those high school students. But now that that uh use has been prohibited, I believe that that would ameliate those concerns. One thing I do think is important that the distinction between retail and or convenience store is um kind of fleshed out. I just don't see a community benefit to having a convenience store that close to a high school, aka Broton High School. Um it's just something that I I see quite frequently. So I I I don't want to pigeon hole the project, but I do do think that's an important concern um not to have convenience store in that close of vicinity to a high school. Yes. So they have eliminated the the new changes to the case at this meeting, they have now prohibited those uses. So they can no longer have those uses across the street from the high school. So um I think between just for me the new prohibited uses, the limitation on the commercial square footage and also the realistic um economic viability of other commercial what's there. I'm satisfied that those um that the new prohibited uses do address a number of our concerns that we had, at least my concerns and some of the neighbors concerns as well from the last meeting with respect to hours and intensity and that kind of thing in this area. But other thoughts from other commissioners? Commissioner Peer? Yeah, this this was a difficult case for me. I had to think about it a lot. Um ultimately I try to always go back to our future land use map which this is inconvenient with sorry inconsistent with and uh I think it's a great thing to have density near schools and I think the vision is is a good thing. That said at the end of the day it's kind of a spot zoning. It's essentially taking a a thing that's inconsistent with our comp plan and saying let's virtually condition free um let's upzone it while being inconsistent with our plans as a city. I don't think that's a great practice. I don't think it sets great precedent. Um I do understand the local neighbors concerns about retail near the site. However, I also think we do need eating establishments and sometimes retail uh in neighborhoods. I think some of the best cities in the world have that. So, I I'm I'm always hesitant to take those things out when we're doing mix when we're upzzoning to mixed use anywhere. Um because that to me is kind of the point of mixed use zoning is for it to actually be truly mixed use and have a thing that's walkable, be able to get food down the street from your house. Um, so you know, I think if this was more aimed at actually we knew it was going to produce affordable housing, I might think differently about it, but the inconsistencies I think surmount what it brings and uh I I don't think I'm going to be able to vote for it for that reason. Thank you. Other comments from commissioners? Yes, Commissioner Makaya. Um, part of my concern also is I appreciate that that is that close to a transit stop, but um I'm wondering the density of that transit stop and how frequently people use it and will this impact parking with adding 49 more units um of housing there? How much will this impact like traffic on the street, parking, things like that? I do have to piggyback on what uh Commissioner Peeler said about um the vision is amazing but once you sell the property anything can happen and without conditions there is no guarantee that there will be this community circle each person taking care of the other and if that doesn't matter because it should matter at least in the conditioning if that doesn't matter enough to put it in the conditioning to make sure as you're telling us this vision that there's a better probability that this will happen because like you said you may not be going anywhere but once you sell it that's it like they can do whatever they want with it there doesn't have to be a community garden so I do wish that there were more conditions and I do wish that it was more consistent with our future used land map yes thank you other commissioners any other comments yes commissioner thank you chair Miller um also would like to point out that it's just about 800 ft down the road from a approximately 60 unit apartment complex that already exists there and seems to mesh pretty well with the neighborhood in the school. I'm really encouraged by the fact that the school administration and faculty is excited about this project. Uh I'm ready to support a positive recommendation at the appropriate time. Thank you. Other thoughts? Commissioner Haver. Thank you, Chair Miller. Um, as I mentioned in the last meeting, I think I love the vision. I think Mr. Gordon's heart is in the right place. Appreciate the willingness to apply a condition. Um, I'm okay. I understand the challenge right now of applying affordable housing at this stage. I too like the idea of additional density near the high school. Um, and I'm just going to be consistent. I I don't think I'm going to be able to support this for one single reason, and that is not necessarily the change in height. It's 10 feet, but the setbacks. Again, if I'm if I bought a house in a residentially zoned neighborhood and I'm adjacent to single family residential zoned property, my expectation would be that if someone's going to come and upzone that they're going to at least maintain the sidey yards and setbacks, it's going from 20 ft to like zero ft. And if there was just a condition in there that would mimic a little bit more closely what the neighbors can expect can you know could expect when they purchase those properties whenever it was I'd be behind this 100%. But I think because of that one reason and hopefully there's time to change that before you go to council. I think we've changed the the ordinance a little bit that you might have another shot to make revisions before council. I just want to go on the record to say that I I would support this, but at this moment I'm going to have to vote against it. Thank you, Commissioner Fox. Um procedural question. Um because it was a general use case and um now it is a conditional use case and we've been presented at one time uh with the condition that's been offered. um conceivably is there an opportunity for amendment of the conditions or additions? Are you talking about between now and the hearing? I think it has to be during council's deliberation. So once the once you make a recommendation to so you've uh seen a round of revisions during your review. Okay. So the applicant cannot review again while you're discussing the request. Once you make your recommendation to council, um, for example, if you made a recommendation today, the applicant would not be able to modify their request until council receives your recommendation. They could uh so it appear on their report of planning commission and at that time they could take action to schedule the public hearing or they could hold the request at the their table. And the applicant could revise before the public hearing or the applicant can revise after the public hearing opens. Got it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Other comments from commissioners? Um I just I did have a question actually for Commissioner Atwell. Were you meaning the the apartments that are the intersection of Athens and Avent Ferry? I believe I'm seeing an apartment complex at the intersection of Athens Drive and Smithdale Drive, a little bit to the west of the site, just south of Kaplan. Okay. Mhm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I think that is I believe on the on the IM maps looks like that's R six and there are they are apartments but it looks like they're built on R six zoning if I'm looking at the right thing R10. Sorry, the one next to it is R six. Thank you. Uh would the applicant like to respond to the comment about setbacks? I I don't have any um um problems with that. The the lay of the land is is that this piece of property is literally at the top of the hill. So everything does fall off from there and on the the side that's closest to the existing housing, there's already probably a 15 20 foot drop. So it would be, you know, there would be no problem putting in or pulling it back further away just because of the lay of the land. Also putting up any kind of fencing that might be necessary. I looked at those houses that are on the other side and most of those houses only have two small windows facing this particular property. So it's not like it opens up into the living room. Uh it could easily be uh addressed. Uh we would love to put in fruit trees and anything else that would lend itself to a farming process that would that would push it further away. So we'd have no problem giving up that space or or adding another 10 ft or whatever the uh requirements would uh appease those that that are concerned about it. Thank you. Um I do share that same concern with Commissioner Haver. If the applicant does intend to make that change, um I think we would some of us perhaps all of us would also encourage that before council. Thank you. Um other comments from commissioners. Then with that, I'll entertain a motion. Commissioner Fox. Uh, in regards to case Z4324, I move to recommend adoption of the proposed consistency statement dated April 8th, 2025 contained in the agenda materials and to recommend approval of the zoning amendment. This recommendation also includes an amendment to the future land use map to the extent described in the adopted consistency statement. And Commissioner Fox, would you did you have any additional comments on the setbacks that you wanted to and if so, did you want to include them in the motion? If not, fine. Just I'm not going to include them in the motion. Okay. Thank you. We have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a motion and a second. Further discussion. Um and all those in favor and those opposed. So that motion uh is tied. Um I can entertain an alternative motion. Someone wants to make one. If not, then we can move forward with no recommendation. friendly amendment. Yes. Um amendment to my previous motion to recommend to council that they um consider having the applicant provide additional setbacks. Thank you. Um do I need a second on the friendly amendment? Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Any opposed? That motion passes 5 to three. Thank you very much. [Music] [Music] I believe staff can help you follow up with the next procedural question. Thank you. Okay. And so that I have in the record, um, would anyone like to add any additional comments for the reasons that they are opposed to this case other than what's already been said. Okay. Um, Chair Miller, again, I'll just I'll just add for the record that I'm encouraging council to take a look at those additional setbacks. I know it's on there, but I'll just mention it again since I changed my vote from deny to approve. Thank you. I believe that should be reflected in our minutes as well, the the change in the vote. Okay, moving on to our next item under new business. We have one item on the agenda today. um reflecting Raleigh, an update on the next comprehensive plan. And we'll turn to Sarah Shaughnessy for a presentation from city planning staff. Hi, good morning again. Sarah Shaughnessy, Raleigh city planning uh and the manager for the next comprehensive plan. Um I presented to planning commission last fall. So I'm just here with anformational update, share some information about what we've done. We're about halfway through the first phase of the process. Um so share some information about what we've done, who we've heard from, and what you can expect in the next couple of years. Um, so again, just an overview. I'll provide a little bit of background and context for the comprehensive plan, our goals for the project, which we're calling Reflecting Raleigh, the project timeline and the activities, um, a little bit about the engagement and public input we've received to date. Um, and then a note about some ongoing communication and coordination moving forward. Um, so comprehensive plans typically have a 20-year time horizon, and they lay out a long-term vision for the built environment. North Carolina state law requires local uh municipalities to have a comprehensive plan or a future land use map in order to enforce their local zoning code and regulations. Um Raleigh, like many localities, has both of those things. Um and so Raleigh's comprehensive plan satisfies this legal requirement and guides land use and development in coordination with transportation, environmental resource protection, population growth and housing needs, as well as infrastructure and service provision. Our current comprehensive plan is the 2030 comprehensive plan. It was adopted in 2009 and updated in 2019. Uh planning staff reference the plan most often to evaluate resoning requests in the consistency analyses we bring to you all and to city council. Uh the plan includes six vision themes, various policy maps that illustrate the city's growth framework, desired urban form, future land uses, and future street connectivity. The plan also includes a breadth of content on transportation again environmental protection, economic development, parks and open space, public utilities, community facilities and services. Um so all told the document is 18 sections long and includes over a thousand unique policies and a thousand unique actions. Um so quite a meaty document. um moving forward. Um so reflecting Raleigh again is the process for developing the city's next comprehensive plan which will include a vision, goals, and policies to guide growth through the year 2050, keeping that 20-year time horizon. And so for our next uh comprehensive plan, we envision a more concise document that functions primarily as a land use guide while addressing the connectivity between land use and those other topic areas that I mentioned. We also envision a um a plan that provides a framework for sustainable infrastructure and service provision as Raleigh grows. A clear vision for the next two decades with smart or um specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and timebound incremental goals, and a document that is informed by a robust engagement strategy that really prioritizes residents that and neighborhoods that are typically underrepresented in city plans and projects. So, I've shared this with you before. We anticipate a two and a half year timeline for developing the next plan and dividing that into five phases. Phase one is focused on public engagement, internal coordination, and an assessment of existing conditions and expected growth. Phase two will focus on developing the content of the plan with a citizen assembly and several technical teams of subject matter experts. Phase three will involve drafting the plan. And in phase four, we'll get public uh feedback from the public on that completed draft. And then in fi phase five, we'll take the plan forward for adoption through the um review process. So anticipating adoption at the end of 2027. Our specific goals and activities uh for phase one with respect to engagement are generally to provide information to the public to city staff and to appointed and elected officials about the project to collect input on community prioriti priorities that can be used to inform the planned future plans vision and policies. So some high level um feedback of that nature and again to prioritize people uh and neighborhoods that are typically underrepresented. So some of the activities that we've undertaken and will be undertaking as part of this initiative are six thematic community conversations, engagement with boards and commissions, engagement with community and neighborhood organizations including but not limited to the city's CAC's, um a variety of youth engagement opportunities individualized communication with community leaders, a number of community events as well as online surveys. So the community conversations um they are will be six topics. We've hosted four of them so far uh looking ahead to two more. Each of them has or will include presentations from a keynote and expert speakers. Uh as well as tabletop conversations using the world cafe facilitation method. Um and then a series of ask a planner events where residents can come and speak to staff one-on-one if they still have questions along with online surveys and in-person polling opportunities. So the six topics, affordable housing, transportation, storm water, trees, neighborhood change, and sustainable infrastructure and services were selected based on community feedback. These are topics that we hear from generally the most in in uh relative to zoning and land use change in Raleigh. Um so almost anytime we um attend a neighborhood meeting for a reasonzoning request or um do some engagement around a a small area plan or a special project, we hear from the public about these issues. Um so we are very grateful for the partnership with our Raleigh colleagues across the city in hosting these events. We've hosted the affordable housing summit um which was our housing focused community conversation in August. We partnered with stormwater to host a stormwater focused community conversation in December. Our colleagues in transportation and transit um to host a transportation and traffic focused conversation in February. We just concluded a conversation on trees and urban ecosystems with our colleagues in parks and urban forestry. And then looking ahead, we'll have two more. Um, a conversation focused around neighborhood change that's coming up next week and the following in April. And then finally, a conversation on infrastructure and services, which we understand um to encompass sort of the financial and environmental sustainability implications of providing service as we grow. So this second half of phase one, we're doing a lot of public engagement sort of in the background. We are also undertaking a number of sort of research and analysis activities to assess existing conditions and to kind of understand what Raleigh's population might look like over the next two decades. So some of the activities associated with this initiative include a community inventory. So an assessment of existing conditions, assets, uh future needs, a market analysis, an audit of our current 2030 plan and the the policies contained in that plan. Um some stabilization planning research um to focus on what uh policies we might set around specific neighborhood stabilization. and then um a capital needs assessment thinking about um what our future needs might be for the future of Raleigh's population over the next 20 years. So, uh some of the specific activities that we've undertaken to date include developing an engagement framework. That's our engage a community engagement strategy. That report is available online if you want to take a detailed look. It's on the the city of Raleigh's um reflecting Raleigh project webpage. Again, we hosted an affordable housing summit, uh, storm water, transportation, and now trees community conversations, nine different ASKA planner events, uh, presentations to 13 of the city's boards and commissions, eight of the city's CAC's, um, a number of small group presentations and tableabling at different events. We also send out monthly emails to anyone who wants to subscribe to the Reflecting Raleigh um, email newsletter. Um and then we have a number of online surveys that are available um and will be available through June. So anyone who is interested in providing feedback really at any time um over the next couple of months can can check out the surveys. Some numbers of who we've reached through these activities. Um I think uh we've seen a lot of engagement in person and even more engagement online. So all told we've reached over 2,000 people um which we're heartened by. I know we still have work to do. We still have a lot of activities planned ahead of us. Um given the amount of engagement we've had kind of online and in the digital format. We're also working to compile um recordings of all our of our community conversations as well as the online surveys and package that in a way that we can deliver it to community groups and residents who might want to sort of explore or host their own community conversation and provide feedback to us that way. Um what we have seen so we include in each of our online surveys a demographic module. These are optional questions and opportunity for people who take the survey to provide some information about their race, age, ethnicity, whether they own or rent their home. Um characteristics like that. What we've seen is people who offer that information on our online surveys are typically white. They're typically upper uh middle income or middle inome and homeowners. And so knowing that we're able to reach that segment of Raleigh's population online, we've made an effort to disperse our in-person engagement events across the city so that we reach residents who don't sort of fit that demographic profile or who might look different than somebody who's comfortable um providing input online. So really trying to reach everyone and and be creative about how we do that. Um apologize for the textheavy slide here. really um working towards incorporating this feedback in phase one looking ahead to phase two. Um so we have a summary report of um all of the engagement um we conducted in 2024 um available again on the the project website. Um we'll produce a full report of all of our phase one engagement activities at the conclusion of this phase um anticipated in July of this year. Again, all of the surveys will be open until June. So, um encouraging residents to take a look at that and provide feedback. Again, all of that feedback is going to be used to help shape the vision um and themes and policies of the next comprehensive plan. Um we're going to continue to prioritize meeting people where they are. Um we um are making an effort to reduce known barriers to participation. So, all of our public meetings, we offer translation, food, child care. We try to make it accessible um locations accessible by a variety of transportation modes. So plenty of parking but also on transit lines. Um and yeah again um using all of this input to shape um the content developed in phase two. Uh so phase two um will be developed with um two general groups um a series of technical working groups of subject matter experts. So this will include um members of city staff um local practitioners and subject matter experts as well as representatives from each of the city's boards and commissions. Um so sort of reviewing all of the content and public feedback um provided in phase one to craft policies and advise based on technical expertise um what policies should be carried forward, what should be added to the the next comprehensive plan. And then we are also working with our partners in the department of community engagement to convene a citizen assembly. So this is a group um we anticipated it'll be about 50 people that is representative of Raleigh's population as a whole. Um a lot of our methods um can be self- selecting um so we often see and hear from the same um slice of the Raleigh population. So we are making an effort to um convene uh a group that more broadly represents Raleigh's population. And this group might um weigh in on um some of the more qualitative or subjective aspects of the plan like the vision, priorities, um tackle some of the um questions that Raleigh's wrestling with as a city that are um less technical and um more sort of values-based. Uh phase three will involve drafting the plan. So um working with staff and a writer, a hired writer to um create a draft of the plan based on the content developed in phase two. Phase four, we'll take that completed draft back out to the public um and get feedback through a variety of engagement methods including public workshops, ask a planner events, tableabling. We are also working with Raleigh Arts to hire an artist and residents who can help us think a little bit more creatively about our engagement tools and how we might reach people that don't often participate in processes like this. and then again um bringing the the final plan with that feedback included um for adoption in the second half of 2027. Um just a note about continued coordination and communication. So sort of two parts both internal and external here. Um we understand that there's a lot of related work happening in the city. So we are continuing to liaz and meet with different city departments, talk about ongoing um initiatives um with the sustain office of sustainability with the strategic plan um other processes that involve um getting a lot of public input. We you know there's a risk of over surveying people um so trying to leverage input that people have already received and incorporate that where appropriate into this project. Um and then uh ongoing communication and coordination with the public. Um we respect that people like transparency and they like to be kept a breast of what's going on. So we again we send out regular monthly updates through the gov delivery government delivery email service. Um we are pretty active on the Raleigh planning social media. So this is a picture. um our communications team has been conducting this portrait projects sort of like um I don't know if you've ever seen Humans of New York but sort of man on the street um working um meeting people where they are and taking pictures and asking them to to provide some feedback on what they like about Raleigh, what they envision for Raleigh's future. So this has been a really cool opportunity um to sort of see different parts of Raleigh and see different residents and again sort of talk to people that we might not come to a public meeting or that we might not interact with otherwise. Um, so that's it. I'm happy to answer any questions. Again, this is just anformational update for you all. Thank you very much. Are there any questions from our commissioners? Yes, Commissioner Will. Uh, thank you, Miss Oanisy. Um, I really appreciate the presentation and I appreciate the effort to get out into the traditionally underrepresented engagement communities. Um, I do know that it's really hard for the city to get the word out outside of its traditional channels. Um, I wonder if any of the uh in-person engagement opportunities, are they geared for events that are not necessarily tied to this issue in particular, like tying on to like Dreamville or larger festivals? Yeah. So, um, as we are aware of opportunities, so um, weren't at Dreamville, but, um, other festivals that are happening downtown, if there's an opportunity for staff to go and table or just share information, um, we're trying to avail ourselves of that. Um, we're working closely with the Department of Community Engagement and with Raleigh Parks. They go to a lot of events, especially now that the weather is warming up. Um, they're out in the community a lot, so we're really eager to share information with them to pass out to to community members as well. Thank you. And a quick followup, is the city considering any more aggressive advertisement efforts, billboards or commercials, that kind of Um, we do we have been advertising on the radio um specifically LA to try to reach the Spanish speaking population. We're considering um broadening that to um across uh a number of different radio channels. Um sort of weighing uh radio is is one of the most expensive uh advertising methods that we've employed. Um, so sort of just trying to assess um how much um is worth spending on on that. But um we also advertise in the Carolinian um newspaper and are um you know we're open to to considering other ways to advertise as well. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Other questions? Yes. Um considering that in the next I think it's 5 to 8 years the population in Raleigh is going to shift to be like 55 and up majority how is that reflected in some of your engagement and resource I mean research around the comprehensive plan. Yeah, I think so. Um, we have been uh working to specifically engage with the local Meals on Wheels program knowing um there's a group of senior residents who are um really interested in social activities um and presenting to them. I think we're trying to really reach a broad spectrum in terms of age um catering to sort of the the older population but also to youth who will be the adults um when the plan is fully realized in 2050. Thank you. Other questions from our commissioners? Yes, Commissioner Bernett. Uh, yes, Mr. Honest, I do want to commend you on the effort into the community engagement, the aspect. As a native of Southeast Raleigh, I definitely understand um the importance of including a lot of communities that aren't traditionally um supplying their engagement and or feedback online. So, I do want to commend you on that. I would also say or ask if there is any if there are any I guess um like physical pieces of collateral that can be like left at like different like small businesses because a lot of the small businesses around the city and all of the districts um see a lot of people and so I was just wondering if that is something that is in play. Yeah, we um we have flyers for each of our community conversation events that we've been leaving at community centers, looking to leave them in libraries as well and any small businesses that would be open to posting a flyer for us. And then we also have we just printed some postcards with the um a link to all of the open surveys as well as the upcoming community conversation events. We're working on a strategy to sort of deploy those to neighborhoods that are typically underrepresented um through community connectors and maybe other staff. Yes Commissioner. Just as a suggestion, I want to piggy back on what they're saying. Kudos on, you know, doing a diverse outreach to make sure that we're reaching people that are not necessarily spoken to um when we're having these sorts of conversations. Have you thought about since you I know that you're working with the department of uh community engagement. Have you thought about uh working with the transit authority or go Raleigh to post things at bus stops? We Yeah, that um that's a great idea. We do have bus ads. They're free for city of Raleigh. So, we've been advertising on all of the Go Rale not all of the Go Rally buses, but some Go Raleigh buses um for our community conversations and would, you know, modify that as different engagement opportunities. um become available over the life of the project. I have a question about that. When you're posting them, is it just information or are there QR codes? Uh there's a QR code. So there's, you know, information about the title of the event and the in like sort of location and date and then a QR code for more information and registration. Okay, great. And one more question. Are we using QR codes and online forms to pull in information so people can provide information on the go or in the moment when they are experiencing something like a 311 kind of app or I'm not sure I understand. I don't I don't know that it would need to be an app but just like an intake form of feedback so that it doesn't have to be an isolated thing. It's just kind of like this um QR code that has a form of whatever solic information we're soliciting or opinion we're soliciting. Has that been considered other than like if a QR code just has like um fixed information on it and it's not a dynamic interface. The QR code I think is just less valuable. Yeah, we are that's an interesting point. Um we do you can access all of our surveys on um a mobile device and so some of our um advertising includes QR codes to the surveys so people can take the survey on the go. Um trying to make that as mobile friendly as possible. Um be an interesting thing to explore if we can sort of collect additional information from people when they scan in. I know we get some some numbers information just based on like activity that we're using to sort of on a broader engagement level to track what methods seem to be most effective. But thank you. Yes, Commissioner Bernett. One last question with the I guess the um the the population aging a bit more too. Um Commissioner um's uh question. Is there any specific information that you guys think is more helpful to collect now than there were, you know, you know, years ago with the population changing and with the uh I guess the population just shifting from a lot of out of state residents and so on and so forth. Sure. Um so our next community conversation topic sort of deals uh most fundamentally with that issue. is focused on neighborhood change um and sort of gathers input um on um how neighborhoods are changing um what assets people like about their neighborhoods, what they might be flexible um with changing to provide resources to more people. So we understand that that change and those demographic and sort of built form shifts are happening in Raleigh and they're happening at a a pace that's faster um now than it was you know 16 years ago when the plan was adopted. Um so we are collecting feedback um kind of in that vein. Yeah. Thank you. Other comments? Uh I just had a quick question about the affordable housing section and looking at the I think it's cool y'all put in the percentage of the you know how many respondents said a certain thing for main concerns. That's great to see. Um, and when I look at some of those, especially the 30 30% AMI, you know, a lack of options for 30 30% AMI and the number two one, uh, affordable housing being located far from employment, those both kind of for me feed into something we talk about up here a lot and council talks about a lot, which is the destruction of naturally occurring affordable housing and, you know, stuff that's exists that's not subsidized and is cheap and is often close to uh, services, close to downtown. Will there will there be anything in the new comp plan that you know of so far that addresses that and kind of shines a light on how we can help preserve that from from the aspect of the comp plan? Sure. Yeah. I mean I think we understand that that's an issue for the city for planning commission for council for residents is preserving naturally occurring affordable housing or below market rate housing. Um and so would certainly um consider and you know are thinking of um what policies we want to carry forward from the affordable housing content and the existing plan and what you know new policies might butress those efforts even more. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Just in thinking about that too, it's like when we when we do our um each resoning case, right, and we see each consistency and inconsistency, we often have all these different sections that you all put on there that address lack of housing options, lack of, you know, market supply, etc. But that's one thing that doesn't get outlined in the report sometime because I think it's not in our current comp plan. So it would be cool to see in the current one. Um you know as we look at each tree zoning what are we what are we destroying there verse what we're adding? Uh I think would be helpful for me at least. Sure. Yeah. And I guess my last question are we going to um discuss the new comp plan at the plant commission retreat when we do that? Is that a a thing we'll do or will the retreat be after all the engagement is done? It's a great question. We're still working on the retreat and finding a date and um an agenda right at this time. Engagement through 2027. I'm pretty sure your retreat will happen before engagement is concluded. Sounds good. Well, I you know I ask because some of the stuff on there, you know. Anyways, thank you. I I have a question. Um, you know, one of the issues in our housing market that we've seen quite a bit is um that a large portion of our residential real estate purchases are by institutional buyers um as opposed to that, you know, by individuals that actually want to live there. And oftentimes they're just holding the properties and um this can create bubbles and artificially inflate the housing market. And Raleigh is one of the um has one of the highest percentages of institutional buyers. I think it's around 8% of all residential real estate purchases. Is that something that this um comp plan update is going to look at? It can we can certainly look at that issue. I think the um the rub is what we can actually regulate. We can't sort of control who buys a a property. Um but and we want to set policies that can be enforced. Um sort of looking to you know setting policies that can actually be implemented. But I think that's a really valid issue and certainly something that we'll consider. um and think about our our policy tools. Um aspects of stabilization planning to sort of help residents and small businesses stay in place. Um I think considering institutional buyers is an important component of that. Sure. Yeah. I I don't know exactly what is to be done about that, but um when we're looking at the destruction of naturally occurring affordable housing, those kind of things, it's because of the it's to at least some meaningful extent, it's because of the institutional buyers that are just automatically coming in with these cash offers to buy up um these parcels. And um I'm not sure what is to be done, but it's a I think just an important question, especially since Raleigh is higher than most other similar sister cities around the nation. So other other questions seeing none. Are there any members of the public who would like to ask a question or speak on this? If so, please raise your hand and we don't have any there. Um then with that, I'd like to thank you for this update and we look forward to continued engagement through 2027. Awesome. Thanks. Thank you. Moving on to our next item. um approval of the minutes for our March 25th, 2025 uh draft meeting minutes. We'll take comments for those. But in addition, at our last meeting, two commissioners abstained from voting on certain cases. And since that meeting, the city staff attorneys reviewed the issue and determined that the rules do not permit commissioners to abstain from voting. So, um we're going to review and update those two votes today. But, um before we do that, turning to our deputy city attorney, is there anything you'd like to add? Uh no. I think um I did meet with a few of you, the new people, and um made it known that I'm happy to answer any questions just a phone call away whenever you need. Thank you very much. Um and the uh for these two votes, the commissioners did email their votes. Uh but I did just want to put it in the public meeting record as well. So the first item is resenting case Z5224 at Lewisburg Road. Commissioner Verer voted to Peeler voted to abstain. Uh would you like to um change that vote today? Yes. And I think I I responded to to Baym that I that I do want to change it to a yes. Yes. And that is a public record. I just wanted to also put it on the record in a public meeting, an open meeting. Thank you. Um so we're changing that one to yes. And the up the minutes have already been updated accordingly for that. The other item is reszoning case Z1924 at Edinburghough Road. Commissioner Omay voted to abstain. Would you like to change your vote? [Music] Yes. I also emailed in, but just so I'm clear, this case is the one where there was a model home. Yes, that was going to be built. [Music] Um, I'd like to vote nay. I know I emailed yay, but I'd like to change my vote to no. Like to vote no. Okay. On the motion, Um okay. So um the minutes have not been updated to with that vote to yes. So it's still the minutes currently say to abstain. So we can um change the minutes to uh change Commissioner Oay's vote to no. Um any other comments from the minutes? Yes, Commissioner Cochran. Um and some of it my name is misspelled. has an E on the end, but it should not have an E. It should just be C O C H R A N. Thank you. Good catch. Other comments from commissioners. Okay, then I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Do I have a second? Second. Commissioner Uwell has seconded. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Any opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Uh moving on to other business, starting with report of the chair. Um, I'd like to acknowledge our new planning commissioner, Brian Bernett. We welcome you to the commission and we thank you for your willingness to serve um in uh this way for your city. It's going to be a labor of love and we sincerely look forward to working with you. Um, and so we'll next go down to report of the members and please do introduce yourself when uh we get to you. When it comes to committee assignments for commissioners and Bernett, I'll reach out to both of you offline to discuss um your interest in committee appointments for the remainder of this fiscal year. So through June and then we'll have new committees um starting with the next fiscal year beginning in July. But we don't meet in July. So it'll technically begin So it'll begin in August. Um and with that, we will move down the line. All right. uh text change committee currently has no items pending for the April meeting. So unless I hear something from staff, I don't believe that meeting will be taking place this month. I expect the schedule to pick up pretty significantly over the next couple months. So enjoy the break while you have it. No personal report. Moving down the line, Commissioner Bernett. Nothing to report. Would you like to introduce yourself? Brian Bernett, native of uh southeast Charlie. Um excited to to serve. Um I see the importance of this board and the value of it to the city and the residents. So happy to be here. Appreciate everyone's support and um I am learning but I'm fast learner. Thank you very much. Moving down the line, Commissioner Fox. Awesome. Welcome. Um uh we would have had a strategic planning committee meeting tomorrow. However, there are no items on the agenda. So, the April 9th strategic planning committee meeting uh is cancelled. Um we may have a meeting in the future. However, as of right now, there are no items pending. Thank you. Moving down the line. Um I don't really have much to add. I just want to welcome Brian, Commissioner Bernett. Uh we've known each other for a while. We served together on the planning uh transit authority. So, I'm happy to serve with you again. Thank you. Great to meet you, Commissioner Bernat. No report. No report for me. Thank you. Also, welcome to the commissioner. I'm normally not the rule follower, but you asked us to introduce ourselves. So, welcome. We haven't really had a chance to meet yet either, so maybe we can find some time to go get a cup of coffee, but Brian O'Hver. Um, this is my third term, fifth year on the planning commission. So I know I think Blandy this is your third term and I think Roberta this is your third term too isn't it? So got some old-timers here. It's like 87th term. So no report. Thank you. All right. Moving on to our report of the assistant director. I don't have anything beyond what was included in the printed agenda or the published agenda. Welcome Commissioner Bernett. It's great to have a full house. So happy when you're all here. It's great. Yeah. Thank you. Love a quorum. Thank you very much. Is there anything else for the good of the order? Then with that, we are adjourned. Thank you everyone. [Music]