This transcript reflects the Cottage Grove City Council meeting held on **November 2, 2022**. *Note: While your provided list mentions Councilmembers Garza and Clausen, the transcript records Councilmembers **Steve Dennis** and **Tony Khambata** as present and participating during this specific 2022 session. I have used the names as they appear in the record.* *** **[00:00] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, good evening. Uh, this is the—I can't believe I can say this already—November 2nd, 2022, Cottage Grove City Council meeting, which I am calling to order. Our first order of business is the Pledge of Allegiance. So, if you don't please rise. **(The Pledge of Allegiance is recited)** **[00:30] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Will the clerk please do the roll? **[00:35] City Clerk Tammy Anderson:** Councilmember Khambata? **[00:36] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Here. **[00:37] City Clerk Tammy Anderson:** Councilmember Dennis? **[00:38] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Here. **[00:39] City Clerk Tammy Anderson:** Councilmember Thiede? **[00:40] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Here. **[00:41] City Clerk Tammy Anderson:** Councilmember Olsen? **[00:42] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Here. **[00:43] City Clerk Tammy Anderson:** Mayor Bailey? **[00:44] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Here. Uh, next item on our agenda is Open Forum. This is the opportunity for anybody that wants to speak on something that is not on tonight's agenda is welcome to do so at this time. Uh, we did have a sign-up sheet out in the entryway for anybody that wanted to speak. We did have one individual that did, um, sign up, and it's Lisa Hartfell, and I believe is at 8068—yeah, 8068 Hornell Avenue South in Cottage Grove. So, welcome. **[01:10] Lisa Hartfell (Resident):** Thank you. Um, I—I've been doing a lot of readings, um, the county, the city, different cities. And one item that I came across was a draft for the Washington County CIP, and in it they stated that in 2025 they were proposing to do, um, a $50,000 major renovation of Park Grove Library. And then I found out that the city also is talking about having the library torn down and rebuilt someplace else so that the Cottage Grove 80 Apartments could add more apartments there. I do have an issue with, okay, spending $50,000 to renovate—how much does a new building cost? You're moving a library that is close to Crestview, which is a Title One school, and so then they—those students might be using the library for internet access and printing and those kind of things. And if you're going to relocate it further away, that's kind of an issue for me. And then adding more apartments because you already got two more apartment buildings somewhat near that area, it's just a lot of traffic. So those are my concerns. **[02:10] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Sounds good. Actually, I will share with you that, um, uh, our comments regarding the CIP for Washington County are on our agenda this evening. And I believe I was going to comment on it, but Councilmember Olsen was also going to pull in comments specifically about the library because I think there needs to be some clarity on some of those pieces. And then maybe I can shed a little light, but I know our staff will always be happy to respond to you with, uh, what the city's specific pieces are and that we can share with you what our perception is. **[02:40] Lisa Hartfell:** Okay, I'd like to hear more. Thank you. **[02:42] Mayor Myron Bailey:** You got it. Thank you. All right, was there anybody else that wanted to speak, uh, during open forum but didn't get a chance to sign up? All right, saying no one, I will go ahead and close the open forum and I'll move to number five, which is adoption of the agenda. **[02:55] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Motion to adopt the agenda. **[02:56] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Second. **[02:57] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, so you have a motion by Councilmember Dennis, second by Councilmember Olsen. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? Motion carries. Uh, next is six, which is Presentations. We do have one this evening. We have, uh, the Small Business Saturday Proclamation. And I believe, uh, Gretchen, are you taking us through this at all? Or no? Okay, so now because—okay. So what we're doing, um, just for the public—and I have my partner here and local business owner, one of them anyway—that is going to read the Small Business Saturday Proclamation, which in essence, we do the—the Saturday after Thanksgiving is typically a Small Town or Small Business Saturday. And so, uh, every year we like to highlight that and talk a little bit about that. And so Councilmember Dennis is going to read the proclamation and then I'll look for a motion and a second by the council. So, Councilmember Dennis. **[03:45] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** All right, well, thank you, Mayor. It's always a privilege to be able to read this and mention not only as a small business investor here in the community, but also a member of our Chamber of Commerce, which is a fantastic resource and group of individuals. Should any businesses here in the community want to—to be involved in that process, please look them up online: Cottage Grove Area Chamber of Commerce. So here's the proclamation for Small Business Saturday: "Whereas the City of Cottage Grove celebrates our local small businesses and the contributions they make to our local economy and community; and whereas according to the United States Small Business Administration, there are 32.5 million small businesses in the United States, representing 99.7 percent of all firms with paid employees and are responsible for 62 percent of net new jobs created since 1995; and small businesses employ 46.8 percent of the employees in the private sector in the United States; and whereas 79 percent of consumers understand the importance of supporting the small businesses in their community on Small Business Saturday, with 70 percent reporting the day makes them want to encourage others to shop small, independent-owned retailers, and 66 percent report that the day makes them want to shop small all year long; and whereas 58 percent of shoppers reported they shopped online with the small business and 54 percent reported they dined or ordered takeout from a small restaurant, bar, or cafe on Small Business Saturday in 2021; and whereas the City of Cottage Grove supports other local businesses that create jobs, boost our local economy, and preserve our communities; and whereas advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across the country have endorsed the Saturday after Thanksgiving as Small Business Saturday. Now, therefore, the Mayor and City Council of the City of Cottage Grove, County of Washington, State of Minnesota, hereby proclaim November 26, 2022, as Small Business Saturday and urged the residents of our community and communities across the country to support small businesses and merchants on Small Business Saturday and throughout the year. Signed and passed the second day of November 2022, Mayor Myron Bailey." There you go. **[05:55] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, so thank you, Councilmember Dennis, for reading that. And again, you can see some pictures up on the screen, I believe, at home to some of our—just a minor few of our local small businesses that, um, are here in Cottage Grove, and obviously there's many more. So we encourage you to shop local during the holiday season and feel free to thank them for investing within our community. So with that being said, I will ask for a motion and a second to proclaim that Saturday Small Business Saturday, November 26th. **[06:20] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Motion. **[06:21] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Second. **[06:22] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, so we have a motion by Councilmember Olsen, second by Councilmember Khambata. Any further discussion? Councilmember Dennis. **[06:27] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Thank you. I would just like to mention very quickly the 3/50 Project, which is something that I've brought up here numerous times over the years. This is a—a project that was defined and created by a lady in Minneapolis who is a small business expert and retailer. And basically, what it does is it does this: it asks people to pick three businesses that they have in their community that they like and would miss if they were gone, and to stop in and visit them once a month and to spend approximately fifty dollars within those businesses. Doesn't have to be all at once, could be divided up. If that happens, we generate about 43 billion dollars in, uh, revenue sales coming off of those purchases. And so one of the things which is very important, and it's important to—to work to support, as the Mayor said, our businesses here inside of the community to keep growing our economy one sale at a time. When you shop small, 68 cents out of every dollar stays right here working for everybody through payroll taxes, business expenses, charitable giving, and other measurements as well. This is what makes the difference, folks. We do support all businesses, big and small, even though they might not be based here out of Cottage Grove, but they're here as investors—we’ll make that clear. But there is a—a marked draw of importance and extra benefit when you do it for those investors that are here. So it's an important thing to mention. And as we've done many times over the years, you know, we work very, very hard as a Council and a staff in our various commissions to bring business opportunities to our city. And one of the things that investors tend to look at is, you know, "If I bring my money here and if I put my process here, am I going to get a return? Do I have loyal customers? Do I have a good place to come and grow?" And what we found, whether it be local or big businesses like we have in our industrial business park, Cottage Grove generally speaking is a place where people come to succeed, and it's very, very important. So I just like to add that little extra piece onto this that I feel is—is intrinsic in order for us to have full success across the board. And it's my pleasure to share that with the community. **[08:28] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Fantastic, thank you. Thank you. All right, so we have the motion down and a second, and all those in favor of the—of the motion signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you, everyone. Uh, next on our agenda is Consent. The Consent Agenda—is there anything a Council would like to pull on Consent? **[08:50] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Item O, please. **[08:52] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Item H. **[08:54] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, anything else Council? Um, Councilmember Thiede, we'll start with H then: the Glacial Valley Park building plan specifications and bidding. **[09:05] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Yeah, so we—we had a workshop on this and—and everything looks real good. We—we were talking about sustainability and—uh, solar and—and also geothermal. And we didn't really talk about wind much, but—uh, I know that—that the wind gets used around this area a little bit more and—and so forth. And—and I was trying to go back and look at—I thought where this was going to come back for some further discussion that, uh, you know, once we kind of finalize some things and—and such. And—and so what I'd like to do is—is uh, have some more discussion around it, possibly even, you know, pull it to—to have some more discussion and—and maybe bring it back another—another day or something like that. But—uh, I guess one of the big things as I was going through it, doing a little research, looking at geothermal, you know, it's one of the—the lowest areas in the United States, you know, benefit-wise for geothermal. And—and we're talking about the 25-year payback for it, the $100,000–$110,000 for it. And—uh, you know, I just—I guess I personally, I need some more convincing that—that that's a fiscally responsible thing to do. Um, so I guess if—if you'd like some questions, or if you guys are open to, you know, uh, pulling it and—and, you know, talking about it later or having another session on it? **[10:18] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Well, I think what we can do is maybe for the public, I'll just give a little background, and then I don't know if we want Zac—you to kind of kick it off for a quick sec. I'm not so sure if the Council needs or wants just—I know you would like maybe have a conversation, but let's—let's see what the Council feels. Uh, just for the public, what we're doing is, um, we are developing a new park in Cottage Grove. It's called Glacial Valley Park, it's off of the, uh, new Ravine Parkway and County Road 19, it's kind of up in that—almost towards that Woodbury area, but—but it's in Cottage Grove. And that particular area is all intertwined with what we call—the glaciers went through there, and there's a lot of natural space, natural grasses and that. One of the things that the Council really liked about this particular area and doing something different with this building—if you go to a lot of our parks right now, you'll see buildings that are pretty much, you know, I want to say split brick, you know, kind of basic buildings. But we wanted something a little bit more unique up there. And we really, uh, did a deep dive into the carbon footprint, thinking of Glacial Valley Park and the natural amenities and things that are up there. What we're looking at doing is how do you—how can we make this building in this park, uh, be basically carbon-neutral? In other words, energy efficient and so on. And so some of the things we talked about, as Councilmember Thiede is bringing up, is what are some of the options that we can do to support that idea? One was solar, which I think we all pretty much 100 percent agreed on the solar piece. The other one was geothermal, and there was a couple different types of ideas that we were looking at geothermal. Geothermal is more expensive, as—as was mentioned here. And so I know that I believe staff, or you guys, went back and looked at some options of a—I'll call it a cheaper version of geothermal that makes more sense with the building of this size and that. And I don't know, Zac, if you want to take it from there to kind of talk about the rest of it. **[12:12] Zac Dockter (Parks and Recreation Director):** Um, thank you, Mayor, members of the Council. Yeah, we've—we've, uh—we thought we heard at the September 7th workshop that, uh, Council wanted to achieve a Net Zero building. So that's kind of what we were building a design towards, and that's the design you see before you. And as the Mayor had mentioned, uh, solar will basically cover all of our electrical usage—so the solar will cover all that—and then the geothermal is meant to—to take care of the HVAC mechanical system. So I can't go into great detail; John McNamara with Oertel McNamara, an architect and engineer, can probably give you more information. But, uh, he's obviously got a consultant working on the project as well for our design team that—he's got more of that information on the details for it. So I think I'll just have him come up and just briefly explain the system that we ended up on because we did do a few different interpretations of that, and you can maybe explain that and how we—um, even maybe the backup boiler and how that works too. **[13:08] John McNamara (Architect):** Evening, Mayor and Council. Um, certainly, uh, the conversation that we had at the workshop really kind of went—talked a lot about trying to achieve the lowest energy use in the building that we could. And the presentation really kind of focused on a combination of using solar power and some sort of a ground-sourced heating-cooling system, which is the geothermal system that we have designed into the project right now as a way to look towards getting the lowest energy use, trying to achieve Net Zero. And that particular idea really revolves around occupancy of the building—you know, how—you know, how often are people going to be in it, what are the number of people and that type of stuff. So, based on some assumptions related to occupancy, we designed a geothermal system—a well field on the north side of the park building—to alleviate most of the heating and cooling load on the building. Certainly, in Minnesota we have these peaks that are—sometimes we need to shave off, and we didn't want to leave the building without enough heating during the wintertime. And so we did decide as kind of this hybrid is to put in a small backup boiler in the building to be able to kind of shave off the peak of the, um, the heating season. But the geothermal system is designed to take 100 percent of the cooling load for the building. And as Zac had mentioned, we are planning a solar power system to be able to offset a lot of that cost for electricity for the building as well. The geothermal system, based on the information we got from our geotechnical engineers, would tend to suggest a horizontal well field is a better solution for that site than a deep vertical, um, uh, bore on there because there is limestone down around 100 feet. And ideally, we'd like to get wells down between 130 and 200 feet. And so the most cost-efficient way to do that is to utilize the layers on the site, which is quite a bit of sand on the northern part of the site, put in a—not directionally bored geothermal system—that we can achieve the number of wells that we need in that area, and it gives us the—the highest amount of flexibility for any changes in the future. And so based on the feedback that we got from that last session and the viability of putting in this geothermal system, that is the system that we have currently included in the design documents that we're looking for approval on. Uh, there are some, you know, unknowns related to its final cost; certainly the numbers that we presented the Council put that in that $100,000–$110,000 as an additional cost of the project in order to achieve that. And our initial conservative estimates put the payback, you know, in that 20 to 25 years, and so that should be in alignment with the past presentations that we've done. **[15:58] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay. Does the Council have—Councilmember Thiede, do you have any questions regarding what he shared on the geothermal side? **[16:03] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Yeah, so did—so the—obviously when we found out about the limestone and going down—if—if we were to go down that, obviously deeper is a—is a more—um, you get—you get a greater effect of the—of the heating or cooling. Is—is that correct? **[16:18] John McNamara:** It—Councilmember Thiede, it's the depth of the well. So the deeper the well, the more we can extract from it. And so we would have to do roughly 46 wells at 130 feet deep versus like 35 wells if we were doing them 200 feet deep. And so you're paying per cost per well. So if we go to a horizontal system that are 200 feet long, we can achieve that same amount of heating and cooling for the building. **[16:42] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Okay, so we were—so we didn't change our cost estimates by going horizontal? We're experiencing about the same? **[16:48] John McNamara:** Yes, as the—as long as we don't have to bore through the limestone. Our concern was the potential unknown to the contractor for—uh, the layer of limestone, because we did not—uh, do wells that were much deeper. We're somewhat reliant on some wells that were drilled in the area to kind of support the geology that we know in that area, which suggests that there's a layer of limestone down around that 130-foot mark on there. And so to eliminate some risk in the bidding part of the project, we decided to take the lowest risk, which was to do the horizontal system, which we have the most information on. **[17:28] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** All right. Um, yeah, and I was just trying to—trying to think now—so St. Louis Park has done this with an environmental building, and you say they have achieved—well, and what's the definition of Net Zero? Anytime we got to turn the boiler on because the systems aren't going—that—that doesn't really quantify to Net Zero. So what's—what—how do they measure Net Zero? And it looked like they had done some certification or something like that? **[17:55] John McNamara:** Don't know that I can speak to St. Louis Park. Um, what I can share is that in our conversations after our meeting, it—we wanted to make sure that we were reducing risk in the building related to potentially not having enough heat in the building during the wintertime. And so the conversation revolved around putting in a—a supplemental boiler in the building so that if, in the event that we can't achieve the heating levels in the building that we would like to—based on say we get down to minus 30 or something like that—that we have the ability to use a—the supplemental boiler to offset some of that—some of that heating issue there. Cooling we have no issue; we can provide all the cooling we need with the geothermal system. It's just that what—uh, for—that the facility folks felt that having a small boiler in the building would alleviate that risk. So ideally the—the geothermal system would provide that heating and cooling 100 percent of the time, but we don't want to put the city in a situation where it gets too cold for that system to be able to keep up. If that answers your question, Councilmember. **[19:02] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Somewhat. Sure. **[19:04] Zac Dockter:** Maybe—and just add a couple more things. As you know, we need to be responsive to the customer needs, and I think that's why the boiler needs to be there, so that especially with those operable windows—we're worried about, you know, if it's a 50-degree day and people are operating those windows, we want them to be able to do that. And really the boiler can just do—give you that quick heat recovery so it doesn't mean you're running the whole night, but it gives you that 20 minutes to kind of recover the heat in the building, half hour or whatever it might be, and then the geothermal can kind of take from there. So you're right, it doesn't mean it's going to be Net Zero 100 percent of the time. We hope it does, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be Net Zero 100 percent of the time. And in terms of the energy, there's a few times where we're selling energy back to the grid through solar, there's many times where we're using a little bit more, so it's kind of that balancing of the whole season for the whole year—calendar year. So... **[19:53] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Council, any other comments on this particular topic? All right, um... did you get what you wanted from that, or? **[20:00] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Yeah, I—I guess I'd still like to—uh, I'm not sure that we would ever, you know, recommend somebody in this—in this area getting, you know, putting like geothermal on their house or something. I mean solar is used a lot. Um, I guess I'm still a little concerned about the fiscal responsibility associated with that and—and uh, in using that. But I got a feeling that if I—if I request, uh, it to get pulled for a separate vote that, uh, I'm probably going to lose at least three to two, but... **[20:30] Mayor Myron Bailey:** I mean, but that's up to you. I mean, you have to make that call if you want to do that. I—I mean I know that the—for the public, I mean the Council did discuss this during a couple different workshops and I think we gave some direction. We had the one workshop. So yeah. Oh, Councilmember Dennis. **[20:45] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Thanks, Mayor. Um, a building of this type would have how long of a service life? 75 years? **[20:52] John McNamara:** I always like to tell my clients the building will last as long as you reinvest in it. So there are systems—there are certainly systems in the building that have a life expectancy on it that you would need to replace over time. A lot of those are in the mechanical systems like boilers, like air handlers and that type stuff. Usually their life expectancy is in that, you know, 40-plus-year range, but as long as you continue to maintain your building, it will last as long as you would like it to. **[21:18] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Yeah. So—so in essence, on the—the return on investment at 25 years, we'd have a period of time that the building would still be fully functioning and viable, that we'd be really in a good position relative to our costs to upgrade it. **[21:32] John McNamara:** Councilmember, most definitely. Yeah. **[21:35] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** And then the other thing is with, um—and I know the world's changing very much right now with technologies. So, um, if you look at automobiles—I mean, the Big Three are not going to be producing internal combustion engines here, um, by 2035. So, um, if—if you—if you look at solar, and solar is an important thing in a—like any other technology that is here, it continues to emerge in a positive way forward. But we do have the challenge of our seasonality, and that is when the—when the sun is high in the sky in the summertime and very low in the wintertime. So as that drops down, you see a loss of efficiency coming relative to the output of solar. Whereas the nice thing with—with geothermal is, you know, the—the water under the ground stays 55 degrees or somewhere in that area, you know, permanently. So you're—we're not going to have the fluctuations up and down relative to the output and the value of operating those—those processes. So, um, I just want to confirm that and put that out as—as food for thought, because I think it's—it's reasonable to consider this as a long-term option—um, probably long after all of us are gone. So that's just a note. **[22:45] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Yeah, Councilmember, and I had like a little more confirmation—I mean, if you get into the—into the bedrock, you get down in further, you may see that 55-degree constant. But if you're running horizontal, you're going to see greater fluctuation because of the—you don't have that—that rock and that—uh, you know. I guess I'd like to see some more data if—if what you're saying is true. **[23:05] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** So if I could, Mayor? **[23:06] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Yes. **[23:07] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Um, and I know we have some engineers in the room. Um, when we build things and we go down below the frost line, right, 42 inches, 48 inches—Ryan, maybe you'd be the best one to answer this—um, how constant does the ground temperature remain to a certain level? And we're talking about going down much farther than just simply for—for frost heaving. **[23:28] Ryan Burfeind (Public Works Director):** Mr. Mayor, Councilmember Dennis. You're right that as you go further down, you do see that more consistent temperature. I don't know how deep those horizontal wells are going to be. **[23:38] John McNamara:** 40 feet. **[23:39] Ryan Burfeind:** At least 40 feet? Yeah, so you could definitely see some fluctuation. But certainly as you get to that depth, um, you're so far from the surface that you're not going to see major fluctuations. I don't know exactly what it'd be, but you're definitely going to see more consistency. **[23:55] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Okay. Probably still pretty close to the 50 degrees, right? Okay. **[24:00] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Any other comments? Do you want to— **[24:02] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Well, it's just there's just no—no factual data that we have that—that supports that. I guess I'd like to see—you know, we didn't get much data. I mean, I look at the City of—uh, St. Louis Park, and they had done some very in-depth analyses and—and things like that associated with—with the location and—and some of that sort of stuff. And I think—I think we're making a lot of assumptions and—and especially with the smaller boiler room and so forth. If something should happen to the—to the geothermal, uh, then it's going to be an after-the-fact type of thing where we're going to have to try to make the room bigger or—or break out a wall to—you know, not planning for, you know, if that geothermal does fail for some reason or we have to change something. And—you know, and I understand that there was a comment there too that—uh, one potential benefit if—if something did happen to one of those horizontal well, you know, deals, we—we could do another one. But then that's additional cost, and—uh, there could be some potential benefit of another well—if a well fails, that—that something like that could be used for that, you know. So that was all new kind of information that I—that I saw that we—we never discussed. Um, yeah, I guess I—I—I'm just of the—the mindset that we—we just don't have all the facts, and—and we're just, uh, you know, kind of doing this because we think it's kind of neat to do—uh, geothermal and sustainability. And I—and I'm all for sustainability if it—if it makes sense. So... **[25:35] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Uh, Councilmember—thanks, Zac. Um, kind of listening to the conversation here, the question that I have for you is, um—if we were to have an additional workshop on this, is that going to put you behind the eight-ball in terms of your ability to get this project done in a timely fashion? Uh, would it postpone? **[25:52] Zac Dockter:** Yeah, we'd have to—I mean, it depends what comes out of the workshop. But if we do a workshop, uh, it backs everything up a couple of weeks, and we were trying to get the—the bidding done prior to—um, the holiday season. So we would probably be back into January for that, so it could push construction out another month or so. **[26:10] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Okay. So it's going to change the bid environment potentially is what you're saying. **[26:12] Zac Dockter:** It would potentially change the bitter environment, but I don't... you might have a better understanding. **[26:18] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** All right. And then, um, for whoever wants to take this—um, you know, Councilmember Thiede briefly mentioned wind versus geothermal. Um, and I'm not going to put words in his mouth; I don't know if he's saying either-or, or one as a supplement to the other. But, um—what if any options exist relative to using wind in addition to the solar and potentially geothermal to support this building? Is that something that we've looked at, talked about, thought about, anything along those lines? I know we talked about wind as a potential option for energy at this building when it was built, and at that time, the—the decision was made not to, based on the fact that the wind was a bit of an inconsistent, uh, you know, resource kind of where this building is located. So I'm just going to toss it out there if that's even something worth talking about. **[27:00] Zac Dockter:** Yeah, I'll defer to John. Poor John, sorry bud—we're putting you on the spot. **[27:03] John McNamara:** That's all right. Uh, Councilmember Olsen, I'm not an expert in wind energy. I can tell you this particular area of the state would require, um, at least a—and again, I would have to probably get back to you on research—but there has been some stuff done with Washington County that would suggest at least an 80-meter high wind tower in order to be able to hit the numbers that they would need. And so that would bring in questions as to, you know, how's that going to get provided? Uh, what would be the budget for that? Certainly, potentially are other options to purchase wind energy. For the most part, wind energy is used to generate electric, so we would need to think about a—a full electric solution for the building versus a solution that uses a combination of ground-source heating and cooling and solar in order to be able to accomplish that. So in order to use a wind solution—which certainly, you know, is something that you could consider—we would need to go to a completely electric system for that. **[27:58] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** So it really changes the specs of the whole project? **[28:00] John McNamara:** Oh yes, sir. **[28:01] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** And I know that we have residential properties in town who use geothermal. Uh, I mean I know several people who—who do it and do it effectively. We also have businesses in town that use wind energy—there was a time when we—we had several who were interested in windmills. Van Meter, which used to be known as Werner Electric, is the one that pops into my head right away. But, um, you know, the geothermal solutions for the residents that I know seem to be working quite well. I don't know if the—the geothermal system that you're proposing for Glacial Valley is equal to, uh, you know, what we see in some of those residential properties. They tend to be larger homes—in fact, there's one right up the road from me on Baroque that—that uses it very, very effectively. But they seem to be awfully happy with it. And I know that we're faced with some challenges relative to the ground and the rock and all that kind of stuff, but it appears like you've met those challenges. So, for my two cents, um, you know, I'm 20 percent of the vote, but I feel fairly confident that the research has been done effectively and that we're—we're sitting in a good position. So I—I would support the—the project as it's laid out. **[29:08] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Zac, if I could? One more—with regard to the length of the horizontal wells, is—is that to meet a certain temperature range or is it more or less to meet a volume requirement because that fluid is acting as the heat exchanger? **[29:25] John McNamara:** Councilmember, yes, it is really related to how much surface area we need in order to generate the amount of heat or cooling that we're looking for. So if we go shallower with our wells, we need to drill more of the wells in order to hit that same target. **[29:38] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** So in your experience, systems with a shallower well are not at an inherent disadvantage other than you need to drill more wells to equal the same amount—the same volume of fluid to exchange heat or cooling? **[29:52] John McNamara:** Councilmember, to clarify: the horizontal system versus the vertical system really is a labor thing with drilling wells. Certainly, if you're a contractor that prefers to drill wells and you can drill through limestone, that may be more cost-effective for you to do that. The process that we're proposing for this project is to do horizontal directional borings, and the length of them would be comparable to a vertical well system. **[30:18] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Okay. And then additionally, with this type of heating system, having the auxiliary boiler—as—as we kind of look to the future, you know, the volatility of, um, fuel and gas, as we know from last year, price fluctuated a lot. So I like the aspect of, you know, whatever the—the final, you know, requirements or needs for the building, that—that geothermal is going to be a relatively stable cost moving forward. Whatever it costs to heat in the winter or cool in the summer isn't going to change much. The fact that it's going to be drawing off of the solar system or the—the solar cells and that we'll be selling back to the grid further insulates us against any price hikes in electricity—if it's more expensive to buy, we're going to get more when we sell it back. So—so from those aspects, I feel like we're—we're being responsible in—in basically helping set the long-term maintenance costs for the building. The upfront cost, again, I can agree with, uh, Councilmember Thiede that it—it's an added cost, and it's important that we make sure that that's a value-add or a value proposition for our constituents. However, I think the—the long-term benefits of—of having a more stable pricing structure in terms of building maintenance is—is an aspect that we haven't really been giving it proper consideration. **[31:35] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay. Council, what I'd like to do, if you're fine with this, is, um—we'll pause this conversation, and now when we go to move for Consent, we can pull this one as a separate item for vote. And that way we can just deal with it that way. Um, so the other item that was asked about being pulled on Consent, then, is—uh, O, which is—uh, the Washington County response letter. And I know Councilmember Olsen, you had something you wanted to add on that item. **[32:00] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** I did, thanks. And I'm going to actually ask for your partnership on this, Mayor. But I have two items with respect to the CIP letter that we are sending to Washington County, which is something that we do every year, that I wanted to just briefly touch on. First of all, I noted in the letter that there was some verbiage revolving around the arterial that we've been discussing as a necessity for access to Highway 61 with the new NorthPoint development and the new development over in the Dunes area. And I know that that conversation has been ongoing with Washington County. I believe that our staff has met with both the Washington County engineer in addition to Washington County administrative staff, and I believe there was even some commentary with Washington County Commissioners. And so I'm just looking for a brief update on where things stand on that project as of this moment, because I know that our investors from NorthPoint have made it abundantly clear that this is something that rises to the very top priority for them in order to make not only the—the current facility or facilities that they are building be as effective as possible, but it also has a direct correlation to any further expansion. So I'll ask Jennifer, our City Administrator, if she can take this, and then you can toss the ball to whoever you want. **[33:10] Jennifer Levitt (City Administrator):** Well, thank you, Mayor and Council. This project has had really a strong partnership between Washington County and with 3M, because obviously 3M is a large landowner, and we met with them just today as we continue to structure and design the interchange—the layout of the intersections for it to facilitate, you know, future development on their site. So we are working cooperatively with them, and then also through the review process, we engage with the Department of Transportation as well. Currently, we have one federal grant for just over 25 million; we should hear by the end of this calendar year if we receive those dollars. And then also at your last council meeting, you approved the grant submittal for the railroad bridge, and we would find out at the end of Q1 of '23 if we receive those funds. And I was going to say the Mayor can probably give us more information in regards to where it is in the Metro solicitation process with TAB at Council on the Regional Solicitation, because our county partners are the ones that actually filled out that application. So we actually shared in those resources to pursue funding for it, because obviously putting those applications in has a lot of financial expenditure, and we've been, um, you know, splitting those costs as we go. And currently we're through and working through preliminary design right now, so we'll be moving hopefully into final design in early '23. **[34:38] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** And are we confident that all the various stakeholders that need to participate, to the degree that that we have these partnerships in place, are in a position where they can and—and will participate when—uh, the time comes to write those checks? **[34:52] Jennifer Levitt:** Mayor and Council, I can't always make a guarantee, but at this point in time, every indication is that... **[35:00] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Okay. I know you've all been working very, very hard. And in fact, uh, the Mayor and—and Ryan Burfeind were in Washington, D.C. recently meeting with Representative Craig, who's been absolutely phenomenal in her time in her role with partnering it at the city level. Having worked with, you know, several different, uh, congressional delegations, um, in my time as a councilmember, I have to tell you, I mean, Angie Craig has been something else. And I think it's her background and experience as a business executive that really gives her that little bit extra edge when it comes to stuff like this. But Mayor, did you have anything you wanted to add in terms of the conversations you all have been having with respect to this Southwest Arterial? **[35:38] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Yeah, the only thing I can say, Councilmember, uh, Olsen, is as mentioned earlier, Ryan and I did, uh, walk many steps up at the Capitol not that long ago and met with obviously with Angie Craig and all our Senators and—and even other representatives that are not even just specific to our area that were there from Minnesota—for example, Tom Emmer and such like that. So—uh, just to make sure that they were keenly aware of, you know, what—how important this is not just for Cottage Grove or Washington County, but it is for the—for the State of Minnesota. And so, um, I'm—I'm hopeful, uh, that that is indeed the case. Uh, our administrator Jennifer Levitt mentioned, uh, TAB. Well, I'm—I'm on the Transportation Advisory Board for Met Council, and—uh, this is on the list as they're looking at funding sources. But at the moment, depending on where we finalize that funding source, it's either—it's just under the cut-off. And so literally from a score—they score these—and so we'll work on that hopefully and see if we can, depending on where all the different buckets of money end up coming for the different projects and that, we'll see if we can—we can get that one hopefully over the line. I do know the county does support it fully, and I've actually had other counties and other city advisors that are on Transportation Advisory Board with me, uh, express support for it. So I'm hoping that we can see if we can possibly get that over the line. **[37:00] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** I appreciate the update, thank you. And just for the people watching at home, one of the reasons that projects like these require the degree of partnership that we're talking about is because from a financial windfall perspective, we don't just enjoy the tax revenue as a city, but we also enjoy the tax revenue from the perspective of the county, the school board, often the state. And when we work with these sorts of investors like NorthPoint, who are bringing hundreds of millions of dollars in an investment to our community, there are a lot of hands out there that get a piece of that revenue. But in order to make that revenue happen, the project has to get off the ground and it has to be well-executed, and so there's lots of different players that get involved, and it can be pretty complex. So all of these various meetings are intended to smooth the road, so to speak—uh, pun intended—so that this project can be as successful as possible, as quickly as possible. And then the second item on the letter that I wanted to talk about, Mayor, was the portion about the Washington County Library. So again, I know that you specifically and our staff have had numerous conversations with folks at the county about our Cottage Grove Library, and so have I in the time that I've served on the City Council. You know, it's—it's important to note that library has been in that location since we were in the old City Hall building. The library was built in 1986, and over the course of time, there have been some different remodels and improvements and—and things, um, where we've built up, but we've never been able to build out because it's landlocked—that's part of the challenge. And so a little bit of a history lesson: there was a time when we had a county commissioner who was very strongly advocating for us to get some significant remodel dollars for that library to really make it a premier library within the Washington County library system. And those dollars went away when that commissioner went away, so it hasn't happened, unfortunately. But Cottage Grove is the second-largest city in the county; we contribute the second-most income in terms of our tax revenue to the county. And so, um, people like me like to look at: "Are we getting a return on our investment?" And libraries are a really big deal. And there—there are, uh, some beautiful libraries throughout the Washington County area—in fact, Forest Lake had a new one built here several years ago, it's really, really great. Woodbury is working on Central Park right now, etc. And, um, there have been questions about the location of the library. So for those who remember when we were exploring the idea of a community center at the shops of Cottage View, there was some discussion with the county at that time about should we be looking at bringing the library to that location and doing so to create some synergy with that project. And truthfully speaking, that piece of property is almost dead-smack in the middle of the City of Cottage Grove. And there were people on both sides of that argument. I remember Senator Bigham was very adamant about keeping the library where it is, for all the reasons that we've all talked about—its proximity to Crestview, the fact that, you know, kids can ride their bikes and those kinds of things. And in fact, she was the county commissioner who was trying to get us a whole lot of money to get that library remodeled, and—and that didn't come to pass, unfortunately. So now we're in a position where we've got a property owner in Grove 80 Apartments who has expressed some very serious interest about that site to expand, you know, their Grove 80 apartment complex because it's—it's been full since before it opened, and—and there's a demand for it. And of course, from our perspective, that puts that property on the tax rolls and enables us to enjoy more taxes, which then lowers the taxes for residential property owners in the community, etc. So I just wanted to ask the question—and Mayor, I’ll direct this to you—in your conversations with the county around the library and where it currently sits, and the fact that it is in desperate need of either a remodel or potentially a teardown... um, you know, maybe you can give us a brief update on what you see the temperature being right now in terms of that facility and—and how it's being used, and whether or not we're going to see an investment back into that library, or if we're going to see an investment in a new library in the City of Cottage Grove. **[41:15] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Well, that's—uh, that's the question I don't know that I can actually answer that. Uh, I guess the message I can share with you is that, um, our request as part of the—the message to the county is—uh, they put some nut dates out there pretty far out, and there's no guarantees. Um, when you take a look at what they're proposing—when—when you—when they look at doing a proposal for any type of public infrastructure, they usually set bonds or they say they're going to go out to bond a certain year, and a certain amount of those dollars from that bond would then go to build a building or remodel the building, because from what we're being told, it would need extensive remodel if that was the case. Um, the—the—the Lisa, you brought up the one question about it. And so, um, I don't even recall exactly what the $50,000—I thought the $50,000 was for planning. Is that correct, Administrator? **[42:08] Jennifer Levitt:** It was just cited in the, uh, CIP as design. **[42:11] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Yeah. And so I think there was some misinfo—misinformation or misunderstanding about what that $50,000 was. It was for design; it wasn't for doing remodel. They haven't put any other money out there for the design of the remodel. What they've done is they've said that should we decide, or they decide, to build a new library or tear it down and rebuild or whatever, they will come back at a later date and say, "We’ll bond in—in whatever year." And one of the years that I'm seeing, I'm looking at right now, is at around 2027. And so as it sits today, pretty much everything would remain as it says today until at least 2027, and then they would bond and then make the decision, I guess, prior to that—I’m assuming they make the decision what they were going to do. The one thing I did want to just state very emphatically is at no—at no time did we as a city say, "Don't do whatever you're gonna do." We recommended all along that if the city were to build the community center, that we thought it was best to put the library with the community center for creating synergy—the busing and all that kind of stuff. And that was our City Council's recommendation to the—to the county. The county, though, owns the building; they get to do it. Well, I don't think the—what—I don't believe that the public is aware is that in Washington County, how they do their libraries is the cities are responsible for providing the property. And the only one that isn't done at this point that I'm aware of is the one that they're currently on—so the property that they have the library on currently in Cottage Grove is owned by the library—or the county, excuse me. And it's owned by the county. And so in this particular case, we do—as it's been known for a while—that Grove 80 was interested in purchasing it to expand their facility. Um, but whether they do that or not, that is going to be up to the county. That is—it’s been their decision from day one on what they wanted to do. It was their—the decision of County to take the money that was originally earmarked for our library and move it to other libraries within the county, um, and while ours just sits, I guess sits in queue. So I'm hoping with our conversations about what the next step would be with the county—and we obviously know we're at—we're going to have a new county commissioner here after the first of the year. At some point in time, we'll have a conversation about—about what that—what that means. Um, but I also wanted just to be very clear that at the very beginning of all this, we were interested in keeping the—the library on the current site, but the county was not interested in what we were proposing, which would have been a two-story library so that it would fit on the site with parking and so on. And because they didn't want to do that, that's why we just said, "Our hands are up, we’re—this is what we think you should do, but it's up to you to make the call." So I want to be very, very clear because I do know there's misinformation going on out in the public about, you know, who said this and who said that. All I would share with you is: go back and look at the record. It's all on our meetings, it's all on all the stuff that the county does to understand exactly who or what was responsible for the dollars not getting or keeping within—within the, uh—the Cottage Grove Library system. And then lastly—and I do know that you were talking specifically, at least I’m—just since—since you're here, I get to talk to you, and staff will still send you the info. But thank you for bringing the subject up too. Um, you know, there's a lot of things, and—and Councilmember Olsen mentioned, uh, uh, Carla Bigham, who was our county commissioner prior and is running now for county commissioner. But anyway, um, she has been—been adamant in the past about keeping it where it's at now. Her and I have been at odds about the necessity of that, I'll be frank with you. Um, matter of fact, even if you just learned most recently, there was a plan for Crestview school to be moved, and it may still happen. Though there's still a plan out there—the school district's, you know, eventually going to go back to another type of secured referendum and such, and they need a new school. And so the—the chances of that school remaining there... and so what we try to do is we try to look long-term, and I think that's what Councilmember Olsen was mentioning. We try to look what is the long-term vision of what Cottage Grove is going to be. So when I grew up in Cottage Grove, on the other side of the highway, the City Hall used to be by where Ace Hardware was. Then it moved up to 80th Street, now it's out here where we are here. Well, believe it or not, this is central Cottage Grove. So in years to come, this area right through here where we're currently located down to what was—or could be in the future—Shops at Cottage View, will be the true central part of Cottage Grove. And so the people that are currently using the library on one side of town versus the other—somebody has to—somebody has to travel. And there—we have affordable housing all over our city, and more than likely at some point, we'll have additional affordable housing in other parts of our community, probably in the not-too-distant future. And so what I'm sharing with the public is: we have to look at the big picture, not just what is it doing for this little neighborhood over here. We've got to look about what's the benefit for the entire community and, frankly, South Washington County when it comes to access to the—to the future library. But staff will give you all the details, uh, Lisa. So thank you for bringing that up. **[47:20] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** And Councilmember—just to recap, so what I think I'm hearing is, um—you know, with regard to where the library sits today, you know, it's a 36-year-old building. John very eloquently stated that buildings will last as long as you continue to reinvest in those buildings. So if a decision is made at some point by our friends at the county that, uh, they would—they would like to keep the library on that site, that's something that certainly is within their scope of—of responsibility to do. But it's going to require us to then make a significant investment in either remodel and/or rebuild, and because it's so landlocked, it has to go up—it can't go out. Is that correct? **[47:58] Mayor Myron Bailey:** That is correct. **[48:00] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Okay, perfect. And if—if that decision is, um, you know, in the offing and they look at it and they say, "Gosh, that just doesn't seem very financially wise," then there's a possibility that the library could move and that property becomes available potentially for somebody else who wants to use it for a different purpose. And that will be their decision as well. So we can certainly state our—our opinions as we've done in this letter, but when it comes to making the decision, that—that's left to the County Board. Fair enough? **[48:28] Mayor Myron Bailey:** That's fair. And I guess the only other two things not related to the library—I thought I'd just jump in real quick—um, is you know, we've been looking at the letter, some of the projects, the road projects. And I know, Councilmember Olsen, you brought up 100th Street is one of them. But a lot of the road projects that the county is looking at going forward in their future CIP, we're happy with pretty much all of them in the fact of what they're looking at doing and what needs to get done in Cottage Grove as we continue to grow. The only other area for—the—it is ironic we're talking about parks a little bit ago, but—um, is we are asking the county to master-plan, or at least get the process going with master-planning, Gray Cloud Island. Um, because there is growth happening down towards the Mississippi Dunes area. Um, there is a—in their CIP, there is a plan for a trail that goes onto the—or on the island, but we're a little confused because there really isn't a park on the island where this trail would go to or whatever. So we would prefer—and that's our message, should the Council agree this evening—that, um, there actually should be a master plan, which they were working on before COVID hit, and then COVID and then things kind of stopped. But we'd like to see a master plan so we can work with the county along with the landowners down there to define how big the park's going to be, what the amenities of the park's going to be, and so on, so that we have it all in advance. So we don't come in at the last minute and find out, "Oh, the landowner now wants to build homes down there," and the county now starts going, "Okay, now what do we do?" And so that's our goal is to really get a plan in place so that we know what's coming down the road at one—one particular time. At some point, they're going to stop mining aggregate down there. **[50:12] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Yes, and probably sooner—sooner versus later, right? So, Mayor, then I would move that we adopt the Consent Agenda this evening, minus Item H, which we'll pull for a separate vote. **[50:23] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Second. **[50:25] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, so I have a motion by Councilmember Olsen, second by Councilmember Thiede. Any other discussions, Council? We did a long one on Consent here. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? Motion carries. Um, and then who wants to make a motion on H? **[50:40] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Move to approve H. And I do have a couple other questions real quick. **[50:42] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay, let's—all right, we got a motion though, first. We have a motion to approve H by Councilmember Olsen. Do I have a second? **[50:50] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** I'll second. You want to take it? You said it first, so. **[50:52] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, it’s Councilmember Thiede seconded. Okay, further discussion. **[50:55] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** One of the things that I was meaning to ask, too, is: obviously for a lot of the sustainability, there's—there's different grants, different things like that. Did we do any research on what's available for that to help reduce that cost, make it a little bit more reasonable? I mean, you see how—you see that on—on a variety of different new technology, right, or things that don't quite hit that justification mark, but... **[51:15] Zac Dockter:** Yes, we have. Thank you, Councilmember. Yes, we've—we know what the Inflation Reduction Act—we can now gain up to 30 percent credit for the solar panels, so that'll help offset those costs quite a bit. We haven't—we’re still—the experts are still trying to figure out and determine the language, how that language works on there, but it seems like that—that should be something we should have a good chance of receiving. Uh, geothermal, we continue to research it. I haven't found anything at the moment, but we'll continue to research that as time goes on. **[51:48] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** One other question—and—and I thought of—is is that the geothermal—it's—it's actually pumping water, in this case like through the floor, through the—through everything and down through the—the wells where it either cools it or warms it, comes back up through the building. So there is electric pumps that do all that, right? **[51:05] John McNamara:** Pumps and VFDs that—yeah, so I don't misspeak... Mayor, Councilmember Thiede, yes, the project includes pumps for the—the heating and cooling system. The project for ventilation is putting in—um, heat pumps and in-floor heat are the two sources for heating. And then the heat pumps will provide cooling within the facility, and the solar is going to cover all that electrical. **[52:32] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Oh, yes, sir. Okay. I went—just, um—number one, I appreciate, uh, this getting pulled off for a separate vote. And I just want to make—uh, you know, a statement that—that I'm very, very in favor of sustainability and using alternative methods. Uh, but I—I really like to—again, I tend to be that technical type of person in terms of making decisions and—and feeling that I have all the information needed to—to make a wise decision. And—um, and I just—uh, you know, that's why I'm not—I’m not feeling that—that we've, you know, got all that information—some of the different analysis and some of the different things on whether the geothermal would be efficient in this location. **[53:15] Zac Dockter:** Mr. Mayor, if I could add one more thing. Just referencing back—Councilmember Thiede, you had made a comment about—um, other municipal buildings. I just—I shared the one as a reference because I thought that was closest to our facility. But there's lots of municipal facilities that use geothermal. Uh, the Healthy Sport—I’m sorry, the Fairview Sports Center in Woodbury, that's a geothermal system for both their ice rink and their field house. Burnsville’s got their Ice Arena, some of their public facilities that use—so there's a lot out there. I was just trying to share the one that was the most relevant... **[53:48] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** So I didn't misinterpret—um, information, because I couldn't find any going out on the internet—I couldn't find any—any stories about, you know, any other municipal buildings with geothermal. So there’s quite a few, thanks—good information to have. Yeah, sorry—sorry if I didn't clarify that. **[54:02] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay. Council, we then have a motion and a second. Any other discussion? Councilmember Dennis. **[54:08] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Okay, thank you, Mayor. Um, I'd like to thank, um, our staff team and our consultant for putting in a lot of work on this. And again, um, you know, I think it's been pretty clearly demonstrated here that based on the original—uh, costs we're going to put into this, which in the grand scheme of things, if you look at building costs and materials now, 100 grand—and it’d be nice having one lump sum in my hands, but it's not a lot of money relatively speaking, not at the scale that we're talking about with building things. Um, the fact that we're going to have decades' worth of viability here in front of us where we're not going to have to be paying a cost, right? I mean, that's the return—and just the good feeling of knowing that you're doing something that's, you know, positive and—and protective and friendly for the environment. So—I mean, that to me is justification right there. So I—I feel really good about it. **[55:00] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? (Nay). Motion carries, uh, four to one. The one other thing I would just share with the public real quick on this item, too, that was in the packet and I'm sure it'll come back to us for just a general conversation, and that is: one of the other things that we're looking at doing with this building, other than the sustainability piece of it, is there is a plan for a wall—there's a pretty significant wall in the inside of the building. And we're look—we’re—we're going to be proposing a—um, RFP for artists to help us design something for this wall, uh, that would be real—taking the—the idea of Glacial Valley Park into it. It was something, again, that the Council talked about. That was something really that the Council really got into—the design of the inside of the buildings more than even the—the different sustainability-specific pieces of it. And so, um, when—when this comes out to the public, we encourage you if you know of anybody—whether you're on TV right now or in the audience—uh, that is an artist, whether it's local or—or regional or national, uh, there is some opportunity for them. We'd love to get some ideas of what would be awesome to see for this building that would be local—you know, obviously something that's unique to that particular Glacial Valley Park. Anyway, that was just my comment. Um, so with that, all of the items on tonight's Consent Agenda, uh, have been approved. Number eight is Approved Disbursement. 8a is Pay the Bills. **[56:30] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Motion to pay the bills. **[56:32] Mayor Myron Bailey:** I have a motion by Councilmember Dennis. Do I have a second? **[56:34] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Second. **[56:35] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Second by Councilmember Thiede. Um, all those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? Motion carries. Uh, nine is Public Hearings—there are none this evening. Ten is Bid Awards—there are none this evening. Eleven is the Regular Agenda. We do have one item on our Regular Agenda this evening, and it was a Liquor Compliance Check Violation, and our Director of Public Safety, Pete Kerner, will walk us through this one. **[57:05] Pete Kerner (Director of Public Safety):** All right, good evening, Mayor and Council. Um, I really shortened this up. Remember back in February, we had a compliance check, so most of my recommendations that we have are exactly what our conversations came to last, um, in February. So we—um, stay the same. And in your packet, obviously on the—the memorandum that was presented, I have pages of what the processes and everything is. So—um, when I kind of talk about the compliance mission, I do want to let you know that as a department, I think we have some missed opportunities with our compliance that we can really work with these businesses. And back in February, I did promise we would look at those—we're looking at some of the—the fee tables and everything, so those will be coming up soon. And with the addition of our Community Engagement Officer, you'll see more of these come in. So more of a—just a—out there to "haha, got you" or anything like that—that's never the intent on these. But it is a good opportunity with all of our license holders, how we can maybe reach out. So—um, but back in July of 22nd, 2022, we did conduct our liquor compliance checks. It was the second one of the year. We had one failure: Top 10 Liquors failed the compliance check. Just keep it real simple: we did have our decoy—she was 18 years old, as we always do this. 18-year-old was obviously 18 or even—even younger. There was—we don't go out and try to trick or, you know, send the 19-year-old bearded guy that looks like he's 35—that's—that's not the case. She did—she was able to purchase a case of Coors Light beer. Um, just the facts: real simple. The decoy did go to the counter with a case of Coors Light beer. The employee actually asked the decoy for an ID. I know speaking with management now, it—through Top 10, they actually had used the swipe and everything and over—overrolled that. So—um, the—the decoy did present her ID, employee examined. Uh, the employee actually asked her if she was even old enough to purchase alcohol, and the decoy was honest and said, "No." So... and then still made the sale. When officers did go in, the employer right away said, "I failed, I knew it." There's an assistant manager, I believe, that was present during the compliance failure, and ultimately a citation was issued to the employee. And we have a representative in a bit that will talk about sanctions that they've already done internally as well. So, as you're aware, we do have two options for the compliance check—we can—we can always use the gross misdemeanor charge. We've had a practice here for 25, 30 years on compliance checks that we've done the misdemeanor. Obviously, if—if we had a really egregious incident where the person bought and then went out and was hurt, you know, then we would definitely look at the, um, gross misdemeanor charge. But for the compliance checks, these are truly meant to be educational. So, and generally there's more internal sanctions for employees than—than even what a citation will end up having. So—um, in a moment, I will have, you know, the recommendation up, and I just want to remind you I—what I did is we had a lengthy conversation, as I mentioned last time, where—um, what—what we decided was the—with the suspension and fine. So I—I followed what we—what conclusion we came to back in February as well. So we do have the district manager here, and I—she did want to speak with you. So I'll turn it over to—um, Cindy, and she can introduce herself. **[1:00:25] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Thank you. If you wanted to come up, and to be official, you just need to state your name and address for the record, please. **[1:00:30] Cindy Schwebel (District Manager, Top 10 Liquors):** So, state my name? Yeah, Cindy Schwebel. Um, my home address is, um, 15775 Fjord Avenue in Apple Valley. So, Mayor, councilmembers, um, I wrote down some thoughts just because I didn't want to get my thoughts jumbled, and I want to present something that is, um, serious—because this is serious nature. Our business has controlled substances. So if you don't mind, I can just read. So, I find myself baffled that I'm standing here before you. When I got the call on July 22nd, I was completely speechless. I have worked at Top 10 Liquors since before it was Top 10 Liquors—I started the company in 2008. My first store manager promotion was the Cottage Grove location, it was in 2013. It’s a store and community that really started my retail management career—a little special spot in my heart. Um, what really confused me upon hearing about the compliance check on July 22nd, 2022, is despite all the education and training we put into every single employee about conducting legal sales, um, this still happened. So I want to take a moment to kind of explain our current process of what we do with every single employee. When we interview candidates, we inquire about their comfort level with working with liquor, wine, beer, controlled substances, and if they're prepared to ID people. If they are, then we go through an onboarding, hire them. And in the onboarding process, I have an example, um, of what our email looks like. It’s a whole welcome email with employee onboarding. But step number two—outside of just getting your name and number—step number two is take an online legal sales test. So people go on before they're even employed by us, take about 45 minutes, they do an online legal sales training that includes a 30-questionnaire, and they have to get a 100 percent on that test before they can even start with us. And then on their first day, we have a new-hire checklist. And on that new-hire checklist, we have spots to have people sign off that they acknowledge—we have a half a page devoted to legal sales, understanding the clarity of the law, understanding that there are compliance checks and that they will happen in our stores. And then the next section is about carding, about how our system works, about how guessing age can be hard. So our system is set up to eliminate that—I’ll get to that in just a minute. And so before they even get to a register, we've now talked about legal sales three times. Additionally, I also want to mention that we conduct internally, uh, yearly legal sales training for our entire store regardless if you're working in the back or if you're the VP of Marketing—we all have to take it. We just went through ours—we do it every September. So here’s the information that led to a company-wide legal sales training that was just concluded, so we do that every September. And so now let's move on into where the registers are. Um, our registers are set up in a way that for every transaction, you have to ask for the ID, you scan in the ID. You cannot continue onto a sale, you can't ring up a single thing until you get past the age identification process. So you have to scan in an ID, and then it will allow you through. If the person is not 21, that screen tells you—there’s a screen that pops up and says, "This person is not 21. Do not continue." We have the technology at our fingertips at every single register to protect us from selling to minors. Our carding policy clearly states that every customer that wants to make a purchase needs to be carded. Once you card them, you scan their IDs, and this is a safety measure to ensure legal sales are enforced. It’s a requirement of every transaction regardless of customer feelings. No non-manager has ever had the approval to proceed with a transaction without scanning ID—no exceptions. And this brings me to the event of July 22nd, 2022. And what makes this situation so devastating is that carding properly is about the simplest thing you can do. The cashier admitted that they understood the importance of carding. The cashier admitted that they scanned the under-21 ID, got the "Stop" screen, and then they asked the person who was under 21 if they were, and she didn't lie—she said she was not. Yet he still proceeded with the sale. He proceeded with the sale by canceling out all of the warnings and started a new override—or a new transaction—using a manager override, which he later admitted he has used only once and that he saw that his manager used it on an occasion, but was never authorized to use. So this is where I found myself baffled. The cashier neglected to use any of the training, go against every policy and procedure. Needless to say, the employee was terminated on July 22nd, 2022. In reaction to this event, we did tighten our belt on the override transactions, and we do have a report to generate and monitor its use. We also sent out a memo, which I have here, it’s dated July 22nd, 2022—so immediately. Um, this is an example of one store where we had every employee, um, go through a pre-shift conversation and reset the expectations, um, with everyone signing and dating it, so that's part of their employee record. Um, every employee that signed off on this understood the consequences and potential negative impact this has on our company and our teams. Non-compliance jeopardizes the stability and future of our company. Every employee signed off on this by mid-August. So I have 13 or 12 store signatures. And in September, we completed the company-wide legal sales training. Additionally, specifically at Cottage Grove, we have a new team in place. Selena Garcia is our new store manager; she lives here and is local in Cottage Grove. She also has two new assistant store managers that are from this area and are super devoted to the community and live here as residents. And so I have every faith that they will continue to—to conduct legal sales and not have something like this happen again. **[1:06:55] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay, thank you. And by the way, you did a great job because you asked—answered my questions now. Well, we can—um, I guess Council, first of all, do you have any questions specific? Uh, Councilmember Khambata, you had something you wanted to add? **[1:07:05] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** I was really surprised to learn that, um, the person proceeded with the sale after they were informed that the person was underage. Um, if that were my employee, they would have been fired immediately, so they weren't. I was happy to hear that that—that was your guys's level of recourse. My question is—well, first of all, I'd like to say, uh, you've articulated your process as well. But the—you know, is that process effective? And that—my follow-up question was going to be, you know, what—what do you do if that process is not followed? And obviously it ends in termination. So, you know, there's—there's a—a human element, and you're always going to have to deal with that, and that's an unfortunate part of, you know, managing and scaling a business. Um, is that sometimes people just are going to do what they want to do. How many times has this happened in—you know, when you—you're in a capacity to kind of make corrective actions and, you know, is—is that your takeaway from—from what happened is—is like you said, the—the additional steps that you've taken? Um, you know, is this a once—a once in every couple of years type of scenario, or—you know, when I'm—I’m not in the liquor business, so I'm asking, you know, like objectively, you know: is this—is this a challenge for your guys's industry, is—is getting people to comply with these really well-thought-out processes? **[1:08:28] Cindy Schwebel:** Um, thank you for the question. Um, I mean ultimately the goal is to never have it happen, which is why we have the technology and the processes established and why we invest so much time in the training and education. And in my time, this would be the first one that I've been in a position of authority to be able to make some sizable changes. Cottage Grove, I think we had one—what was it? 2015? 2015. And I was a store manager at another location at the time, and—um, I don't know the scenario and the details around that one. Um, but that was six years ago. Um, prior to that, we hadn't had—so like in—since 2008 to 2015, hadn't failed a sting in any of our liquor stores at all. **[1:09:18] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Safe to say that your processes had been effective? **[1:09:20] Cindy Schwebel:** Yeah, this—this is kind of an anomaly. This is a human element that is, um, the challenging part. Um, I also—we watch cameras too, because we have cameras that watch our—our—um, our counters. And the manager that was on duty was in the back checking in a truck. And so the other part that the cashier did not do is call for help. And so, um, some of what we've looked at is training and team building to make sure that people know who to rely on and who to call for help with and make sure that your teams are working together in that. And—and so our processes for carding are 99.9999... like, this is a human element. I—I don't anticipate this happening often. I don't anticipate this—I mean, it was a character flaw in the person and made a poor judgment call. And that's kind of a rogue element that is hard to—I don't know if that answered—to pinpoint. It's hard to pinpoint and correct because I feel like we've done everything else. Thank you. And I think also too, um, Halloween, for example—there’s other things I guess I didn't mention too is Halloween, people come in with masks and face paints, and we post on our—our doors, "Do not come in with face paint. Do not come in with masks. We will not card you and will not sell to you." So in some of the peak holidays—Memorial Day, Fourth of July, you know, any of the holidays—we do have extra signage that supports, um, carding in our stores. We do have extra—um, like pre-shift meetings and—and, um, team pep talks that talk to our store teams to say, "This is one of those wacky weekends, like make sure you're on top of your game. Make sure to remind all your staff. Make sure to send all of that." So there—I forgot to print off and show—there's also these, um, spurts of holidays where people just don't have their best game-face on and we need to be prepared for that. So there are also other conversations that happen throughout the year instead of what is just outlined here. **[1:11:32] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay. Pete, do you have a recommendation, sir? **[1:11:34] Pete Kerner:** I do. I put what the city code has in there with the imposing the first violation, a 24-month period with the $500 fine and one-day suspension. However, I did add in there, at the City Council's discretion, instead of the suspension and fine, the participation of all employees in the educational program approved by the Public Safety Department within 90 days. So my recommendation is the same that you, um, came up with back in the spring, too. **[1:12:05] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** And—and I think that's a reasonable recommendation based on the facts that have been presented here. And, um, certainly, you know, the response to the situation has been, um, appropriate. And—and it looks like you've really tried to, you know, not only get your house in order again, but even implement some additional steps that might help you prevent this from happening again. So, um, Mayor, I would—I would make the motion that we follow the Public Safety Director's recommendation with regard to, um, having all of the employees of this location go through an educational program approved by Public Safety Director Kerner within the next 90 days in lieu of the fine and suspension. **[1:12:45] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Okay, so I have a motion by Councilmember Olsen. Do I have a second? **[1:12:48] Councilmember Dave Thiede:** Second. **[1:12:49] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Second by Councilmember Thiede. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye). Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you for being here, thank you for—uh, coming and sharing. Um, obviously as you know, we all know sometimes the—all the things that we put into place just don't always work the way we want them to work. But it's good also good to hear that you had a—you have now a backup where you can actually see if somebody's overriding, so that's a new report that I think would be beneficial to you. **[1:13:20] Cindy Schwebel:** Yeah, flagged if there’s several in a day, which shouldn't be. So, thank you. **[1:13:24] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Yep. And—and definitely nothing against our—our the person that was just before us here with their business, but I guess on the other side of things, we should commend that all the rest of the liquor—uh, places—uh, passed. And so that's great. We like it, and we want to have 100 percent. But—uh, we do want to give kudos to the rest of those that are selling liquor in Cottage Grove, uh, that they did all pass—uh, the liquor compliance. We actually have some that have never failed ever, which is awesome. Really great. All right, uh, next is twelve, which is Council Comments/Request. We'll start with Councilmember Khambata. **[1:14:02] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** Uh, thank you, Mayor. I got a chance to get out and see the—I wasn't in the Halloween parade, but I got to see it. And—uh, I just have to comment, again, commend everyone—local businesses and volunteers—for our strong community engagement. I did make it to a couple of—uh, different Trunk-or-Treat events, and the people that I did get to talk to were all very enthusiastic and really enjoyed some of our park spaces. On a separate note, you guys might know that, uh, next week we get to vote. If you haven't already, um, it's easy to go on the Secretary of State's website. You can find—you can search by your own address and find, uh, all of the candidates that are going to be on your ballot. You can research them, it'll give you links directly to their websites and to their bios and any other additional information that's been published. So you can go into the polls and be prepared. And if you want, you can vote early, and it'll take you about five minutes. **[1:15:00] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Fantastic. Yeah, get out there and vote, that's for sure. Is that it for you? **[1:15:04] Councilmember Tony Khambata:** That’s it. **[1:15:05] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, Councilmember Dennis. **[1:15:06] Councilmember Steve Dennis:** Mayor, I will yield my time. **[1:15:07] Mayor Myron Bailey:** Well, there we go. Okay, Councilmember Thiede is yielding his time. Councilmember Olsen. **[1:15:10] Councilmember Justin Olsen:** Well, thanks, Mayor. I'll try to be brief. Um, first of all, I echo the sentiments of Councilmember Khambata with respect to the outstanding Strawberry Fest Monster Bash parade that we all got to enjoy this past Saturday. Uh, the weather certainly didn't hurt, that's for sure. Um, we're—we’re enjoying some bonus fall here, I think, for at least one more day, which makes me want to get out to River Oaks and hit the ball around at least one more time if I can. But, um—really, really nice job by the Strawberry Fest committee as always. And I just want to thank everybody on that committee, including my colleague right here, Councilmember Dave Thiede, who's been part of the Strawberry Fest committee for many years, for all the hard work and effort that goes into organizing those events. They make it look flawless, and—uh, that's just a compliment to the work that they do. I also wanted to—uh, echo Councilmember Khambata's sentiments with respect to voting. So, um, for those of you who are looking to vote early, you can do so at the Washington County Service Center here in Cottage Grove from 8 to 4:30, Monday through Friday. It does not take long. Make sure you turn your ballot over, because there are judges that you need to vote for, too. So you can't just have the front side of the ballot; you need the back side. A lot of important races. And if you're looking for, you know, more information on where to vote, you can go to vote411.org and you can find all the information you need. But I want to remind folks that the weekend before the election, which happens to be this coming weekend, you can also vote on Saturday. The service center will be open from 10 to 3 for you to vote early. And on Monday the 7th, which is the day before the election, you can vote up until five o'clock at the service center if you choose to vote early. So a really good way to avoid any lines or issues that you might have because you got to get to work early and that kind of thing. Some key things to remember: if you are going to vote early, it's considered an absentee ballot. We're at that stage now where your absentee ballot will actually get put directly into the voting machine. So—um, that's something that—that happens after the first of the month in November. But any absentee ballot that you've already requested that you need to deliver must be returned by mail—if you're sending it by mail—by eight o'clock on November the 8th in order for your vote to count. And if you're returning that absentee ballot in person, it has to be returned by 3:00 PM on November the 8th. If you've requested an absentee ballot and you've decided, "Guess what? I just want to vote on Tuesday like everybody else," you have to tell the election judges at your polling place that you requested an absentee ballot but you are going to vote in person, and then they will cancel your absentee ballot so that you're not in a position where it appears you've tried to vote twice. So you need to be really careful with some of those things. But the reality is: voting early is as easy as it gets. And I can tell you, um, you know, I can't remember the last time I had to vote on an election day because I vote early. So please make sure you get that done. It's really simple and it's critically important. Just because it's a midterm election doesn't mean that you stay home. It’s just like a college kid, right? You don't skip the midterm in college; otherwise you're going to fail the class. So please do your civic duty and vote. And the last thing I want to mention, Mayor, is I know you're probably going to talk about the Santa breakfast at River Oaks, which is coming up. But there is an additional Santa breakfast that is coming up that the Cottage Grove Lions will be putting on, as we do every year. And that will take place on December the 4th at 8:00 AM at the Cottage Grove VFW. We will have Santa, we'll have Sparkles the Elf, we'll have all kinds of good food. I'm not sure if we're going to roll out the mini-donut machine again this year, but I'm certainly going to try to twist some arms that we do, because we sold a bunch of them last year. And—uh, all of those proceeds obviously go back to very good causes in the community—that’s what we do as Lions, is we take those funds and we redistribute those to, you know, people in need and organizations like the Friends in Need Food Shelf and those sorts of things. So put that on your calendar: December 4th, 8:00 AM at the Cottage Grove VFW to see Santa and Sparkles and all of us Lions in our Lions gear. And we'd be happy to serve you a really nice breakfast and hope you have a really great time. And with that, sir, I'll turn it back to you. **[1:19:40] Mayor Myron Bailey:** All right, thank you. Two things real quick—well, maybe three, kinda. Uh, one is I—I assume—uh, from a staff perspective, we may have Molly or somebody come to the next Council meeting to update all of us on the upcoming—uh, fun festivities that are going to be coming. So you—Councilmember Olsen mentioned, uh, the Santa breakfast, but I know there's a whole list of them. And the only one thing I did want to point out for the general public is because it's a little different this year, but it's—it’s amazing and it's cool, is normally we have a tree-lighting ceremony—uh, that would be like before our City Council meeting and such. But this year, on Wednesday, November 30th, uh, we're going to—we’re doing what's called a Home Town Holiday Celebration—uh, here at City Hall. Uh, it'll be from five to seven, and we'll have the Christmas tree up and going. We'll have Santa, Mrs. Claus, we're going to have reindeer, we're going to have food trucks, we're going to have the sample letters—I mean, all kinds of stuff that's going to be going on here. So—uh, this is bigger than what we've done in the past versus having Santa here. We got the music from the Park High choir. So I encourage everybody—and we'll talk more about this at the next Council meeting—but mark your calendar for Wednesday, November 30th, here at City Hall from five to seven. And then the other one real quick one I'll mention: uh, the Holiday Train, of course, is arriving. I've got my shirt on tonight. Uh, we'll be arriving on Monday, December 12th, here in Cottage Grove. It's the first time since—uh, before the pandemic, and they're back out with music and such. It’s going to be a great event. It’s open, it’s free to the public, and at any—there’s an opportunity for money to be collected, food to be collected and that—and that goes to our local Friends in Need Food Shelf—that’s what the event is all about. But again, come enjoy. The arrival of the train is around five o'clock—I think we start festivities from 3:30, goes to about 6:00, 6:30. And then the last item I just wanted to mention for the general public is because we did have, um—I’ll call it another—uh, power outage that happened earlier this week. I'm looking at our Public Works Director back there; he's smiling at me because I chatted with them. Um, I just thought this—this one, though, was different than just to share with the—the general public, because I did have some of the homeowners in some of the same areas reaching out to me, so "Oh, here we go again." I will share with you that in this particular case, this was not something that was very specific to a particular area of our community. Matter of fact, over 8,000 households and businesses, covering—uh, Cottage Grove, Woodbury, Saint Paul Park, Newport—uh, and I think even old Cottage Grove—um, Pannelee, I believe it was. It was unbelievable how wide this was. Uh, and it was like a—some type of—from what I understand, like a total failure at—at one of the substations that kind of covers all this area. So—um, I know sometimes people think that some of these issues, or these particular issues, have been specific to an area of Cottage Grove, or specific to—um, the growth that's happening. I can't speak, to be frank with you, to the total message of the growth piece. But I can assure you that in this particular case, this was not just a certain area of Cottage Grove that got affected by this. We did get notified from our representative for Excel Energy—uh, that—uh, it was kind of a total something happened at the substation and it completely went down. And that's why it wasn't out very long, as they were able to get it all up, but they had to cycle it carefully so the thing didn't all crash again. So for those that were asking about it, that's what happened. It was a—a specific issue that wasn't related to blowing transformers or anything like that. This was a—a failure at the substation—I believe that's the one at Hinton and 70th, if my understanding is right. So I just wanted to—to pose that out that hopefully they've got those issues addressed now, it sounds like, and we won't have those issues hopefully going forward—I’m knocking on wood somewhere here. Next on our—um, agenda, it's a Workshop Open to the Public—we do not have one this evening. Fourteen is a Workshop Closed to the Public, which we do have one this evening. And I just want to read for the public before we move into there: we will have a closed public meeting pursuant to Minnesota Statute 13D.05, subsection 3b, Attorney-Client Privilege, to discuss acquisition and eminent domain litigation for the East Point Douglas Jamaica Project. And so, being that we'll be meeting privately with our attorney, that will be a closed session. And so at this point, we won't be closing in here; we'll be moving to the conference room—uh, with our staff. So everybody have a great evening, we'll see you in a couple weeks.