recording we are yes all right at this point uh in time we will call to order the Planning Commission meeting for July 2nd 2020 uh we shall go through a roll call uh chair Jacobs is here uh commissioner Dickman here commissioner schulak here commissioner in Camp here and commissioner Woo is on an airplane all right so we have uh four people in attendance out of five uh at this point in time we will do the Pledge of Allegiance and did did did Mike have his his American flag again yeah all right I pledge allegiance to the flag Allegiance States of America uned States for it stands for stands indivisible with liberty and justice for all with liberty and justice for all thank you okay all right we will move on to agenda approval um before we take a vote um Brad are we going to um we've got the open form the public comment uh before the minutes and um I notice on item six new business um anyone interested to speak on 6a 6B uh are we going to hold then the um item uh 6D until the end of the of the night for belw or fifth Mr chair members that's up to you I know we do have a great deal of audience members who are mostly interested in 6C so my thought was not to keep them held too long um but that's up to you but just for those who are listening um there's a lot of new people to corkrin government right now um there are three opportunities to comment tonight their first point is the open Forum that's typically for things that are not on the agenda um we also have as chair Jacobs talked about when we start new business there's a comment period for anything under new business that doesn't already have a public hearing so that would be 6A 6B two sign variances and then 6D which is bellweather fifth edition 6C for Eagle Brook Church is a public hearing so at that item there'll be a chance to speak so again open forum for those for items not on the agenda um the new business generally for anything other than Eaglebrook and then the formal public hearing at Eaglebrook item so I just want to go through that um we're going to keep track um try to hold the five minutes for folks just so people get a chance to speak and then uh Mike's at City Hall operating technology and unless it's your turn to speak um we're going to be muting both um video and audio for folks just to keep it um as consistent as as possible so those the notes that I have and Mr chair it's up to you if you want to change the agenda no I just wanted to clarify I'm I'm fine with the agenda um fellow Commissioners is there um anyone have any suggestions or want to amend the agenda as stated okay uh I'll motion to approve commissioner chair Jacob all right do I have a second second all right uh we'll do our roll call vote uh yay or nay chair Jacobs yay uh commissioner Dickman yay commissioner shulack yay commissioner ven Camp yay all right the agenda is approved as such all right item four uh open Forum public comment opportunity Brad Mr chair and audience members again this is for typically items that are not on the agenda so if you'd like if you're on your phone um just on audio you can dial star9 if you're on video you can use the raised hand function which I believe if you um click on the kind of three dots that pop up um we'll help assist you with that so we'll wait a few moments and see if anyone wants to speak at open Forum thank you Mike anything so far nothing so far all right one more check mike nothing here okay thank Mr chair it's okay to move on okay very good uh minutes from June 4th um anybody have any uh changes uh corrections to the minutes from the fourth no Corrections or changes here okay motion to approve the minutes Dickman I'll second that Jacobs all right we'll do roll call vote um chair Jacobs votes yay commissioner Dickman yay shac Y and Mr Von Camp yes okay the minutes are approved thank you very much all right uh new business item six Mr Martins thank you Mr chair so again this is the public comment opportunity for the items other than Eagle Brook Church where there's a public hearing coming up soon there's a two sign variance items and then Bell weather fifth edition so you want to speak on either of those three items um D star or use the raised hand function now please I see there's a chat sorry here's a chat about the raised hand function so I believe you hover over your video you can click on the dots and no I'm not seeing it now either Mike are you aware of that it's on participants if you click on participants for folks that are joining via desktop the Box will pop up with participants listed and then there will be a raised hand on the bottom right thank you commissioner Dickman so correct yeah participants there's a raised hand function there thank you sorry about that it's mobile device it'll be the dots thank you I do currently have one hand raised on a telephone all right I have two if you'd like me to go ahead and invite them okay um for those wishing to speak uh if you could first and foremost could you state your name and address please okay we're going to start with caller with the last four digits one29 go ahead with your name and address and you can begin 208 31208 County Road 71 Eagle Bend I just want to say that I'm here for any questions or concerns that's all I have what did it was it anything in particular or I believe that's the applicant correct oh sorry no sir I just want to let you know that I was here I do not know if the owner is present I haven't spoke to him he's out of town what what are we talking about the sign variant okay all right what which location corkran Crossroads yep okay we are here um okay it sounds like Matt is there so I'll there are two we have a two people here uh sorry I I did not find theas but raise hand button sir uh my name is hasmuk Patel and we have a cal both the owner from Caron Crossroad market up here okay I'm here for any technical questions so I'll mute again and and step back okay that'd be great and when we get into the discussion if you're still online and we have a question we can uh um we can bring you back up how's that sound yeah that sounds good okay thank you very much second caller Mike yes uh next caller and I'm just going in the order in which I have them on my screen will be Brent okay just assuming everybody can hear me my name is Brent Anderson 21100 93rd Avenue North I've lived in corkran since 1968 all right I am uh here today to speak uh in support of the signed variance request from Cork and Crossroads um concisely the the two things that I I think they ought to be uh granted the variance uh one first and foremost although they're brand new business owners I have noticed that they have been extremely generous uh members of this community uh providing products uh that uh couldn't be found at the big box retailers especially during this this era of Corona virus I won't get into the details but let's just say you'll find them in the bathroom could find them at Cork and Crossroads could not find them anywhere else yeah I see Kendra laughing might remember my name from the 90s um but uh the other reason is being a longtime member of corkran citizen of corkran very active in my past um I look at corkran with a lot of Pride um and when I walk when I drive through the town or walk through the town um there isn't a lot of new there isn't a lot of change there are some buildings that are becoming somewhat dilapitated uh in appearance um and I would like to see something newer in appearance uh just to show that uh we're moving in the right direction and I trust these guys not to be too incredibly flashy uh in what they intend to build but something new to give a brand image to the community that that represents what we really are that's all I've got to say thank you thank you Brent okay next caller I have is 9363 go ahead with your name and address and you can start anytime um sorry sir I couldn't understand is it 9363 is the code number or is it a phone number you uh with the last four digits 933 okay I see okay 9363 you're unmuted um I think he was part of that first call wasn't he okay y y you're right okay any others yeah this is Bob Schnell I'd like to say a few words myself I don't know if you can hear me or not just Mr chel just say no we're not to the Eagle Brook item yet there will be a public hearing for that nope it's fine when will when will that come up sorry we have two sign variance items and it'll be after that so that's what 30 minutes who knows 20 minutes come on Brad all right sorry okay next Mike that is all I have right now okay very good um okay so I I take it then that that's the end of our item six new business uh public comment opportunity um unless there's any other mic we'll move on to uh item 6A sign variance uh for corpin Crossroads property um and we will uh we'll have our our great staff report please thank you Mr chair commissioners uh Mike will uh run the AV tonight from City Hall so we'll wait for the power point to pop up so you can better see and the audience can see what we're talking about this evening so this is a sign variance for corkran Crossroads just south of City Hall just south of the inter section of 116 and 10 next slide and the variances are uh to exceed the total allowed sign area on the property wall sign area and to allow a second Dynamic display where only one is allowed by code additionally there's a variance required for construction of a new canopy so there's three variances and I'll go through those next next slide the site is a legal non-conforming um well it's not actually a legal non-conforming use has legal non-conforming structures on it and legal non-conforming structures are have certain rights guaranteed um this application was reviewed based on uh the city ordinance which is more restrictive than or excuse me yeah more restrictive than state law state law was changed and we do need to modify our code to bring it into compliance but in either case the legal non-conforming status of the canopy which is non-conforming due to the front yard setbacks is lost because the applicant is demoing the canopy and rebuilding it we went through a couple of rounds with them of design where at one point they were going to add on to the canopy but at the point that the canopy comes down the legal non-conforming status is lost and a variance is required for the replacement next slide so again the site is uh just south of Napa just south of City Hall at 10 and 116 next Slide the first sign variance again is for the to exceed the total wall area allowed uh the plans show about 155 square feet of sign area where 98 square feet is allowed so when we talk about wall signage canopy signage is considered wall signage under our order orance so you combine the total sign area on the canopy and the wall of the building to get the the total wall sign area so quite a bit more than allowed however it appears that it's about three square feet less than exist today so we would be reducing uh the non-conformity that exists today the second is to allow for a second Dynamic display as I said they would like to put two price signs on two different canopy elevations um the dynamic display on each side of the canopy would be a total of 24 square feet the code allows one 12 square foot Dynamic price display so it's about four times the total Dynamic sign area next slide however it's not that different from what exists today so on the left you can see uh that happens to be the South elevation the north is the same so we've got a big uh cabinet sign which isn't allowed under our current code and then the price sign and what they would do is they would replace it with two price signs the fuel and a diesel price sign on both again both the South and the north elevations next slide again there's a setback variance uh required to replace the new canopy the code requires 100 foot setback from County Road 116 the existing canopy is 29.5 ft from 116 they would remove the new canopy and build a slightly wider uh canopy at a slightly uh bigger setback 30.9 feet from 116 so again we're improving the condition from what it is today and uh reducing those existing non-conformities staff finds excuse me as outlined in the staff report that the variant standards have been met next slide Mike uh this image does show the it's a little bit hard to see but in the middle you can see the existing canopy which is a little bit kittywampus under what's shown as the uh proposed new canopy so uh it allows them to add new fuel pumps pump Islands to expand service they'll also uh need to do some improvements related to the underground fuel storage things like that but that's the the real visible Improvement is the larger canopy next slide we recommend that the Planning Commission move to recommend approval of the resolution approving those three variances however the could commission could find that the variance standards are not met and recommend denial if if you find that the variance standards are not met you must provide findings of fact for denial or you could find that the variance is too much and could red recommend approval of a smaller variance but the resolution as drafted in the staff report is approval as uh submitted and I'm available Mr chair for any questions all right very good thank you Kendra well done um okay uh commissioner comments um anybody wish to start off okay I'll jump um they want to uh uh they want two um price signs I I can only assume because I've been a resident and and and using diesel for many many years um I assume the applicant is going to be putting diesel tanks into the ground yes I believe on the S plan you see uh new uh fuel tanks I I believe that's related to that but again the let me get let me get my thing out here because I really can't um now when they put in a new fuel tank are they going to be required to dig up any old underground I mean isn't that why the uh the station on the corner used to have diesel but they got into I think they had to replace their tanks due to some EPA regulation and that becomes too costly and so they just folded up their gas operation which then was sold off to Napa Auto Parts but um are are they going to be required to do all that as well maybe the applicant want to hop on and answer that question hello yes yeah we are adding uh one uh tank but the existing tank will be staying as it is okay so you're not going to be required to dig that up okay um okay now Kendra when we were talking then about the the amount of space you know advertising on the canopy I notice here that they have this uh on the front uh which would be on the 116 side uh Bases Loaded game day does that does that factor into into the square footage that's coming down that's coming down coming down okay and so the only thing on the front will just be I guess apparently they're going to be a marathon correct there'll be Channel letters that say marathon on that uh 116 side and then price signs on the North and South elevations of the canopy okay and just out of curiosity then I mean it's so is the c it be structurally efficient is it is it something that needs to be replaced I I guess I'm trying to understand if they're not if they're if they're not going to make it bigger um they are making chair it will be more than twice the size of the existing canopy oh all right gotta a little bit hard to see um I don't know if Mike if you can pull that up and show the existing canopy under the U planned canopy well um I I've got I've got it now I've got it now yeah yeah so there will be two posts and the canopy will cover uh three pump Islands correct okay is there any concern about about through traffic as far as how many are are they going to be able to put that many cars in there given their Ingress and egress I don't I didn't see anything related to any specific requirements that says well you you know given given the width of your lot you you just don't have enough room for that much because obviously now the the Ingress and egress is going to be a little bit more difficult uh to park in front of the store uh and then as well as to get out and around well um the distance from the 116 to the canopy Remains the Same the distance from the canopy to the store Remains the Same so where the parking is occurring today will not change um in terms of the circulation through the site uh We've involved Public Safety and in fact the applicant has worked through several iterations to ensure that uh Public Safety Vehicles can circuit and and personal vehicles can circulate safely through the site so we have looked at that and we're very comfortable with it as drafted yeah I mean because I'm a regular there I know that you know when I go to park in those spots I kind of come pretty close if there's no car getting gas I come pretty close to the existing um pump Island just so that I can align a vehicle to get in there but now you're going to have to go much wider and take a more deliberative you know 90 degree turn you know to get in there that so I guess you know circulation would be one question but um given that you only have that much land I guess uh there's not a lot you can do with it so okay any other Commissioners have any questions or comments my only comment is I think having the the two different display signs make sense it keeps us competitive with HIV in Maple Grove which is about two miles down the road um they they have a digital display sign which faces both East and westbound traffic on Cony Road 10 um I think given the the the size and traffic on that intersection having that flashing display is good and then I think any type of you know upgrade and pump expansion with with additional offerings um is is a is a good fit the only question I had is I know we've done a lot with um city sewer and water in that um Industrial Park District I just wanted to clarify if the if this current business is already hooked up to to the uh that City sponsored uh sewer and water they are not connected yet um we have talked about that connection being available and they have a deadline that Brad will know out the top of his head that I don't of when they do need to connect so um let me go through with that I'm sorry Cal I think Mr chair I think Cal was saying something yes he was with the with the CT and Sewer connections uh we already have our uh that is called what sack validations Sac charges and all so that process is done we are working on to get the codes from the different contractors and uh because of covid of of course it got delay a little bit but um it will be fine um within a few months once they have they put us in a schedule it will be hooked up with the city and so well okay great that that was just my thing is if we're if we're going to be going down the path of a non-conforming piece that we're you know we're making the effort as a city that we're tying that into to some of the other initiatives we've had as the city so that was all my comments thank you Mr Dickman Mr ven Camp you got thank you um Kendra if I can ask the question the 100 foot setback what is that for why is that that much and and we're obviously 69 feet from that goal what is the 100 feet for so uh commissioner uh the city code requires 100 foot setback from all major roadways generally County Roads and the thought process from the council when they established that was the part of the keep Corker and Rural that provides more green space as you drive down these major corridors but we also understand that's a lot of land and so we built into the code a reduction by right to 60 feet if you add additional Landscaping because they felt that if you add extra trees that will also keep that rural character so that's very intentional uh by the council but intended to help preserve that Ral character so it feels different from the community you may be driving in from so that that 100 feet essentially would be to the front of their building is that about right the existing building is probably a little more than that there's 70 feet between the building and the canopy um the canopy is about 24 feet wide and then you've got the 30 foot so you're about 125 feet okay all right I just again off of commissioner Dickman's comments too just trying to understand that whole area and stuff being new to the Planning Commission now just about a year I just I wanted to make sure I understood that stuff but uh I agree with commissioner Dickman the the price points and stuff like that as far as being competitive um for everybody um the marathon portion going up and the the the two price point signs um coming up I think is a good deal and uh I have noticed significant changes um over the past uh the previous owner to these current owners um it is truly a joy stopping in there and visiting with those folks and buying products so um very much for this thank you right thank you sir Mr schulak you have uh any comments or questions uh boy I'm just echoing commissioner Dickman and commissioner Veron Camp here uh in addition to that I think from a graphic standpoint uh it's going to look sharp uh it's going to look more modern um and you know um uh what commissioner veren Camp said about stopping in there and yourself Mr chair um it's just uh from the very beginning they were willing to help out in the community in any way they could uh including helping the U the police department find a uh hand sanitizer when it was uh unavailable anywhere else um including wipes and things like that so um uh you don't have to stop in there many times to become a friend of theirs I think it's probably one visit so uh I'm in support of this very good well I I'll say the same thing as well but you know again I'm kind of selfish in the fact that I'm elated that they're going to have diesel fuel so that is that is definitely good I can bring my business to them because I've been exporting it out of this community for too many years Mr chair yeah just a quick question you got have you got a 2,000 gallon tank on that big Ford or I don't I want to make sure I want to make sure there's diesel for everybody else in the community yeah there there will be plenty of diesel all right okay good uh any other final comments or questions any changes to the variance ordinance that anybody would like to suggest to the city council all right not hearing any uh let's take a vote then for approval of the variances to exceed the total wall Lage area and allow two Dynamic displays and reduce the setback from the canopy um we'll do the roll call um Vice chair Jacobs votes yay commissioner Mr chair we need a motion and second so moved oh I'm sorry second second I get ahead of myself all right uh chair jobs votes yay commissioner Dickman yay okay commissioner shac yay and commissioner Baron Camp yes okay that passes uh thank you very much and uh we look forward to seeing your improvements thank you very much thanks a lot thanks thank you Mr chair and thank you everyone thank you all Commissioners and thank you everyone all right okay moving right along uh we'll move to item 6B sign variance for property located at 9350 County Road 19 Mel pull up the the PowerPoint this is the gas station on the other side of town on 19 and 10 and again um is related to some existing non-conforming signage um next slide Mike the application is to exceed the total allowed number of freestanding signs which is one and the total sign sign area for those freestanding sides next Slide the site at the corner has a number of businesses on it and uh while the city file is light it is my understanding from the previous land owner that as part of the approvals back in the 80s or early 990s that the city wanted more signage and requested more signage for individual tenants within the bu within the project which included at the time a construction company and a lumber yard in addition to the gas station so they kind of each had their own signs uh the signs became non-conforming in terms of so that became nonconforming to begin with under our current ordinance and then they became further non-conforming uh due to setbacks when the County Road 19 improvements occurred and uh the county took right of way for both 19 and 10 next slide oh well that's a you can skip that there you go the the again there's three freestanding signs and some canopy signage we're going to talk about tonight freestanding sign number one uh the sign is staying it's not changing they're just popping out the cabinet face and re replacing it that is permitted under the non-conformity section freestanding sign number two they are refacing the top two cabinets of the sign that is popping out the cabinet replacing them and removing the bottom cabinet which is a addition uh with a changeable Message Board that'll be removed the third sign though is being removed and replaced the canopy signage again they're rebranding also as a marathon uh and so they're rebranding on the canopy signage next slide so those are the three sign areas on shown on the on the survey there uh it was a little tough to read on the survey so I added red stars um where the sign located and the sign in the Northwest portion of the site is the one that's going to be replace the one up on 19 the ones on the two on 10 we're just replacing C cinet signage next slide so freestanding sign number one this is the one on the east uh all we're doing you can see on the sign is replacing the storman cabinet with the Tom Thumb cabinet uh nothing else is changing uh no Varian is required for this this is just maintenance but as part of the uh entire project um it's important to see what's happening there second slide Mike fre standing side number two is the one on the corner um they are going to replace uh the top two cabinet sections and remove that lower one which I don't know if it was ever actually approved but is not allowed under our current code we don't allow changeable message boards uh so they're going to take that out and they're just going to replace the top sign storman sign with an S sign they own a large portion of the site and then have a right for now a blank placeholder in that second cabinet next slide now this is the one that actually triggers the sign variances because this sign along 19 is being removed and replaced with this new Marathon sign uh again uh I think it'll look sharp it's got a dynamic display on it um uh it is slightly smaller than the existing um sign um and does comply with the city code requirements for a new freestanding sign what doesn't comply is that there are three freestanding signs on the site but again uh that is the existing condition and they are I think improving the appearance of the site next slide uh this is the canopy again unlike the previous one they are not having fuel uh signs on the canopy because they have three freestanding signs and they will have the fuel signage on those freestanding signs so this is just replacing it with some Channel letters on facing the corner that say Marathon next slide so under the corkran code the maintenance of non-conforming signs like the first two signs is allowed just replacing it uh but expansion of a non-conforming use is not uh allowed and once they remove that third sign that triggers the variance next slide so again the variance is to allow three FR freestanding signs where one is allowed and to allow 204 square feet of freestanding sign area where 64 square feet is allowed and the variance as I said is triggered by the removal of sign number three but for the reasons noted we think uh this is an improvement for the community and that the variant standards have been met as outlined in the staff report however if the commission finds that they have not they should recommend denial and provide findings a fact for denial next slide Mike staff's recommendation is that you move to approve the draft resolution approving the sign variances as requested with the conditions in the attached resolution okay great uh thank you Kendra want appreciated um all right commission discussion um comments and questions Kendra to go back to that that sign where they're going to be uh the corner one I believe sign number two and you said they're going to remove that bottom thing because it's a changeable sign correct but their diagram shows that they're going to have basically a changeable sign which I believe they already have for gas prices so how does that not we have talked with them about that and rather than redoing the graphics uh we have emails from them that confirm that that is not that will be a blank panel sign I realize the doesn't reflect that but but we had conversation to clarify and confirm that and it will be just a white panel sign as a placeholder for a future tenant it will not be allow changeable messaging okay all right very good Kender if there's tenants that are added to the uh locations what's the process for for them being added did that go just through staff does that go through this variance piece um what is the process for that yeah if they're just uh popping out the cabinet sign face and replacing it uh that doesn't not require a variance that's just maintenance of the sign and I'm going to defer to mic here but I believe we still get a building permit for that is that correct Mike not a building permit unless structurally it is changing if it's just a face just be a sign permit that I'm sorry I meant sign permit thank you Mike so it does require a sign permit that goes through staff um um and then my other question is on sign number three is is um is putting an all beef hot dog in compliance I just wanted to verify that it is not uh well I shouldn't say it's not we do have standards in the dynamic sign ordinance that we can't have dancing flowers and things like that so if it's a static image of a hot dog you can have that it just can't dance and Flash yeah I was just wondering if it's like the city we have to follow what the city hall has to do with the D corre signs right it has to hold for a certain period of time absolutely and so as part of the the permit for that sign they will need to provide all of the same information about brightness for the dynamic sign uh to make sure they're complying with the brightness standards they will have to show how they've got the timer on that holds that message and if they don't if you see a dancing hot dog uh that is inv violation and we'll follow up with them okay and that Dynamic sign is on both sides correct of the yes it's the the it's a double-sided sign correct and and the dynamic sign itself as I read is in compliance with our our code for size that is correct okay all right Mr shulak you have any questions or comments just a a couple of comments thank you sir um I think it's a it's a very big corner and it's a very big um plat of land there um I again it's it's a a very very nice business nice people in town and everything and um getting back to the corner itself I think that uh under other circumstances three signs on a corner might look junky or or uh just way too much but I think uh because you've got especially on County Road 19 you've got that whole stretch there um I don't see any problem with it it being too busy or anything like that okay Comm V Camp uh it it's nice to C up the the signs on this corner um more continuity and those kind of things I'm I'm in favor of thank you okay very good all right I would assume then that no one wishes to make any uh suggested changes to the uh variance uh request and if not uh I'll take a motion to approve so move commissioner bar camp second to like okay um we'll do roll call uh commissioner or uh chair Jacobs votes yay commissioner [Music] Dickman yay and commissioner shulak yay commissioner ven Camp yay all right passes 4 nothing all right very good thank you everybody okay we'll move on to item 6C then the public hearing for a site plan conditionally use per preliminary plat for Eagle Brook Church um we will start off with the staff report uh please thank you Mr chair the application in front of you tonight is a conditional use permit site plan and preliminary plot for Eagle Brook Church for the property at the northwest corner of Hackamore Road and County Road 101 next slide this is the five these are the five properties affected in The Proposal they will be combined um as part of this plat next slide a concept plan was presented by Eagle Brook Church to the city council on April 23rd that's an opportunity to get informal non-binding feedback from the council the church heard that feedback made some changes to the plan and has now submitted their form noral application the property is guided low density residential and zoned rsf2 the rsf2 zoning District allows single family homes but it also allows a number of other what the city terms com determines are compatible uses such as Residential Care Facilities places of worship and assembly schools greenh houses and nurseries this is an allowed use in the rsf2 zone zoning District the request will will create a 27 acre lot for the church and about a 4 and a half acre Outlaw for future development uh the church does not propose development on that Outlaw at this time um I realized today um that the staff report noted that the uh Church's narrative was in the packet and it appears it was uh listed but not actually included um and that will be added to to the city council packet I apologize for that so the proposal tonight is a 70,000 square foot roughly a church that church has uh the normal or what I would term common accessory uses office space a classroom space some kitchen and assembly space um that you would typically see with a a modern-day church next slide so uh I'll mention this again later but in terms of public comments all public comments received have been provided to the commission uh those that were receiving the packet went out were included in the packet those that came afterwards uh were provided via email to the Commissioners uh those will be entered into the public record uh for the public hearing the same as any speaker this evening the main concerns noted and I acknowledge there's a lot of nuance in here but the main concerns or the size of the building in the parking lot traffic impacts impact on property values and privacy of of nearby homes and noise and I am going to try to address uh the majority of the comments uh in my presentation this evening but again we will have a public hearing after U my presentation where we'll take any additional testimony uh but the Commissioners I know you've all read the comments uh and have uh taken that public testimony under under advisement next slide there's certainly a lot of emotion about the application tonight uh so I want to remind the commission that the city's level of discretion varies on the type of application last month we had a planned unit development where the city has a very high level of discretion it's it's a rezoning it's a it's a negotiated zoning District in the city has a lot of discretion this evening we have limited discretion the city's discretion in reviewing a site plan and a conditional use permit is limited to whether or not it meets the standards outlined in the adopted zoning ordinance if it meets those standards the city must approve the request the city's discretion in approving or denying a preliminary plaid is limited to whether or not it meets the standards in the subdivision and the zoning ordinance if it does you must approve the preliminary plot next slide this image shows the existing structures and trees on site uh I wanted to include it just simply to show that all of the existing homes will be removed it's a little difficult to see in grayscale but it also highlights I think in a more reable way than some of the other plans the tree preservation areas so the light gray tree area are to be preserved versus the dark gray tree areas will be removed as part of the project so the applicant has attempted to preserve the existing vegetation along the perimeter of the site to preserve the transition and buffer to the adjacent residential areas but all existing driveways and homes will be removed as part of this project next slide this image was intended to Overlay the site plan on the aerial to give a sense of scale for the project and give a sense for how it really fits into the neighborhood so in the center of the site you're seeing that 70,000 squ foot building with the uh surrounding parking lots um and how it fits into the existing neighborhoods again it's the most recent areial so I acknowledge that there are homes not shown on this but this was the data we had for the area next slide this is a new site plan that we received this morning from the applicant um and so I want to note a couple of things on the site planine and I'll ask Mike to help me Point them out the proposal on the corner of Hackamore and 101 has three entrance uh points or access points I should say along 101 there's a limited right in WR out um limited because there's a median in 101 um that will prohibit a full um range of turning movements um but it will you will be able to uh turn into the site or exit the site from this location down on Hackamore there are two access points that Eastern access point is entry only it will be a two-lane entry so you can enter at the same time whether you're East or westbound uh that's a method to improve speed up access into the site and the same uh to the West is exit only again intended to help improve the uh shorten the time for people to exit the site and move on on the North End of the site there is deeded rideway for the road that has always been planned to be extended uh between ravenia 5th and ravenia 11th there's some confusion think based on the comments so I want to be clear that road is being dedicated right as RightWay with this plaque but it is not proposed to be built at this time the church is not proposing any access to that road that road would be constructed if and when Outlaw a was developed in the future uh during the concept plan we thought we may need an emergency vehicle access uh to be constructed um to service the church but since the county has approved the access onto 101 Public Safety is comfortable with the three access points that we have so that road will not be built there is no access this church has no access into the existing renia neighborhood next slide um the site plan this is in the staff report was reviewed against the rsf2 standards and it exceeds all minimum lot size minimum lot width uh and setback requirements it is consistent with the building height requirements uh we have a maximum Building height of 35 feet uh we do not have a maximum building size either for for residential homes or commercial buildings what restricts the size of buildings is the building height restrictions and the setback requirements uh in the code next Slide the architecture proposed is a mix of architectural precast uh concrete metal panels and glass um no more than 20% curtain metal panels of of are permitted under the code and so uh we've asked for some details to confirm compliance from the applicant but um uh the images uh show a building that is consistent with not only the code requirements in the zoning ordinance but the design guidelines in the Southeast District standards next slide uh tree preservation is not required uh but the plans do show and you can kind of see it in the light green areas around the perimeters of the site of the colored site plan and up in out lot a those are tree barriers that are going to be preserved um and I should have mentioned this on the previous slide really this is the site plan uh that was in the packet except that it's colored uh it's colored and I think it's probably difficult to see but they did add pedestrian connections uh which was one of the conditions in the staff report and it's really hard to see this but along the um northern parking lots they've added uh rubbery to screen those parking lot headlights uh which also was a condition in the staff report so this is the same site plan that was in the packet with those couple of changes the mix of trees proposed does meet the standards in section 1060 of the zoning ordinance as I mentioned though uh the staff report does note that there is a condition in the ordinance that requires parking lots be screened by vegetation up to 3 F feet high the intent of that is to screen headlights from vehicles and so the entire perimeter of the parking lot where we have parking including that East Side uh would need to have that row of vegetation added to provide that headlight screening um the the perimeter parking excuse me perimeter parking perimeter Landscaping on the edge of the site uh is concentrated along the uh Lupine rway and along that western boundary and um again while the ordinance does not require buildings to be screened it is reasonable to expect that Landscaping will provide some sort of a transition from the single family homes into the uh Church uh site next slide Kendra can can I just interrupt you for a minute it's your meeting Mr chair um Brad or Mike can you guys a can you guys tell me why are we why are we seeing all of these emails or whatever these chats is there any way we can block that out from us viewing this it one it gets in the way of of some of the graphics and and in the presentation and it's disruptive I I don't want to tell them they can't chat but is there any way we can not see the chat in the presentation I'm not aware of that Mr chair um it's one of the functions of Zoom meetings um I'll look into that as far as future meetings but um essentially I'm not sure actually how they get recorded as part of the public record everywhere so um I'll look at that and let you know no problem all right sorry Kendra sure um uh the um let's see we're still on the site plan so a lighting plan uh was provided to show compliance with the ordinance standards so our ordinance includes um cut off requirements so we don't have glare from the light fixtures and uh limits the uh foot candles at the property line and the plans uh do show compliance with those requirements however a final details for those fixtures will need to be provided in terms of cut sheets which come from the manufacturer uh to to um uh ensure the uh both the style and the fixture cut offs uh comply with all ordinance requirements but the materials in the lighting plan do show compliance one freestanding uh sign is proposed at the Hackamore entrance that sign uh does comply with all ordinance re requirements uh no outside speakers are proposed uh the services take place in the building um there's nothing about the churches in general that would suggest it would violate uh mpca noise standards but like any use in town they they are required to comply with mpca noise standards next slide parking uh certainly has been noted as a concern the plan show 848 parking stalls the code requires 375 stalls for this 1500 seat facility the applicant did provide information based on the other campuses that they have that shows the demand for this parking stalls is warranted and information that suggests that the uh large number of stalls helps get people in to the site quickly rather than driving around uh and backing up traffic into the public streets again we have nothing in the code that would limit the amount of parking on site provided that they meet the setback requirements uh landscape requirements and storm water management uh requirements but as I noted in the parking lot section we do need to add a landcaping around the perimeter to screen headlights and provide pedestrian connections and the point of that is again to we have two plan Trails one on County Road 101 and one on Hackamore the Hackamore Trail will be built as part of the Hackamore improvements next year uh 101 is a longer term project as that's a county project but we want to have pedestrian connections from those Trails into the church uh entry the plans do not show any pedestrian connections to the neighborhoods so if rinia residents wanted to attend church they would need to come out to 101 or Hackamore uh to get in uh on a pedestrian route or drive on 101 or hack one next slide snow storage areas are shown on the plans um you know snow storage is a little bit tricky uh we do need to work to finalize those storage areas uh to ensure that it's consistent with the St Water Management regulations um but it it has been uh provided I think my next slide will show that additionally a traffic and management plan is required to be submitted to the city for review and approval that is a condition uh in the engineers memo and what does that mean so that plan is going to help us uh provide more information about how the church intends to manage uh traffic uh in the facility one of the things that they noted in conversations with City staff is that in other communities they have worked with the city to hire the city's uh police officers uh for Traffic Control uh on weekend services that may be something that is part of the discussion but that traffic management and parking plan needs to be submitted needs to be approved by the city um and that will address whether or not those warrants are met and whether the city is willing and able to provide that service I'm familiar in liono lakes for example where we also work that uh they certainly do contract with local police to manage traffic on that their main campus so that could be something but that is a condition of approval that they provide those details next slide uh this is the draft uh snow storage plan I think in light of some of the Landscaping uh conditions that we have have requiring the Shrubbery around the edge of the parking lot some of that may need to be rethought about where that snow storage occurs um but that was a question I saw in some of the comments so those red areas are their snow storage proposal areas it is not final certainly something that uh needs to be worked through with the uh applicant and staff next slide transportation is a significant concern uh a traffic study was completed for the site and as noted it does account for the covid situation uh the traffic study was completed the spring when we were under the stay-at-home order and so the actual traffic counts were lower than would normally be expected however uh traffic engineering is a science and we have a lot of data to support the work that our traffic engineer does so we have data that uh comes from multiple sources uh as part of our comprehensive plan that we updated last year in all cities and counties in the Metro were required to update we had current traffic information and traffic estimates for the TW next 20-year period that is through 2040 based on planned land uses not only in our community but in adjacent communities because we're always looking at uh uh traffic that flows through from other areas so the traffic study does account for existing traffic and planned development based on adopted comprehensive plans from uh corkran and adjacent communities additional supplemental information is provided by the it data which provides national standards for different types of uses and for this particular project traffic studies were also done not not long ago for renia and uh recently for Tava to two projects that uh access onto Hackamore and both of those studies including the the renia study back in 2013 noted that improvements to Hackamore were warranted that there were areas that needed improvements and the city's been working uh on the Hackamore improvements for a number of years with uh the city of Madina next Slide the city engineer and H County have reviewed the plans and have provided comments and conditions of approval that are included as uh conditions in the draft resolution uh I'm going to summarize at a high level the traffic study certainly and the engineers memo are are much more detailed I think it's half of the staff report but in terms of access improvements a new wrin write out will be provided on County Road 101 and as I said the church will build new North and southbound turn Lanes to improve 101 at that entrance two new curb cuts are planned on Hackamore uh the East and the West entrance that we talked about and the church is required to build new turn Lanes at the entrances to the site the church is also required to dedicate the Lupine right of way but not build that right of way and again just to be clear there is no connection from the church to that road but that is important for circulation throughout the renia development which has some long dead ends coming out of the 11th Edition without it and provides access to Future development on out next slide Hackamore and and 101 certainly is a challenging intersection today and as part of this project uh uh we looked at that intersection which does require upgrades to the traffic signal and turn Lanes uh if it were even if it were just the church that was happening so they have a responsibility to participate in those improvements they will be providing additional right of way for 101 Hackamore and Lupine the city of Madina as I said have been working for a number of years on Hackamore improvements and we finally uh have plans available I think um there was an open house a month or so ago the plans are now 30 percent complete uh the construction is uh plans are planed to be completed this winter go out for bid in the spring and be constructed in uh 2021 next summer and uh as part of renia lenar was responsible for a significant uh Financial contribution to help pay for those the church will also have a financial contribution uh to those Road improvements uh costs will be split among other property owners and and the two cities um but the church certainly has their financial responsibility for those improvements in addition to the other improvements I talked about earlier next slide Municipal sewer and water are available to service the site uh uh utilities will Loop through that Lupine right of way that's one of the reasons that right of way needs to be dedicated that's always been planned to provide looping of utilities storm water management will be provided on site there's a number of storm water ponds uh on the current plans those will likely change as they work through the process with the city engineer storm water needs to comply with City Watershed and state standards as the commission knows that's always a big deal so we're still working through the details of that with the applicant uh Wetland delineation has been completed for the site and has been submitted to the city as the lgu uh that's under review and that needs to be completed before the final plat is approved the plans currently show Wetland impacts and so a mitigation plan also needs to be approved prior to final plat next slide uh as noted in the staff report uh we have reviewed the conditional use permit standards uh there are seven conditional use permit standards and uh we believe that the uh Church does meet the conditional use permit standards uh outlined in the ordinance uh particularly with the addition of the conditions uh proposed by staff in the draft resolution if the city finds that the standards have been met they must approve the conditional use permit next slide I mentioned this earlier this city does not require the building to be completely screened but reasonable transitions should be provided tree preservation landscaping and setbacks are tools that can be used to help provide that transition um the applicant did provide uh some renderings for the commission tonight so the next few slides I'm going to provide some information that was that's new that provides perspective of the site next slide so these arrows show different view sheds that we'll be looking at so if you look at viewshed one for example it's looking from the parking lot towards the entry of the building and I'll walk through each of those and keep this small uh key plan on the images uh to help you see where we're at as we go through these so this is provided by the applicant intended to provide a better sense of what the uh view are view will be from different locations next slide this is just an aerial shot uh intended to be an aerial shot of you from uh uh 101 and Hackamore looking into the site along the sort of the lower leftand corner is that road is Hackamore and where the eberg church note is that's basically 101 so you can see the 101 entrance on the North side next slide this image number one is the one I used as an example this is intended to be an image from the middle of the parking lot looking north towards the church building you can see the U main entry that comes in and separates the two large parking lots uh and uh leads into the driveway with the drop off parking area or the drop off area excuse me next slide uh image two here is the view from the entrance entrance exit uh on 101 so this is from 101 looking into the site and you can see in the distance the uh brownish orange of the church straight ahead next slide image three is uh from the corner of of Hackamore and 101 the road that you see in the foreground is 101 so again you're looking across the wetlands and the parking lot and in the distance you can see the church and the church Spire next slide uh this is the main entrance on Hackamore uh looking into the site uh you see the parking lot and again in the distance the uh uh uh Church facility it's kind of an orangey Brown yellow next slide uh this is from the exit of the site that tree line is the trees that are uh would be planted along that that drive so that's kind of along that property line to the west and the church again in the background next slide so this is a view intended to show uh the the view from the West property line kind of about halfway between uh Lupine and Golden Rod um looking into the site so um this is the uh area I think where the church is uh Church structure is closest uh to the West property line next slide and then this is the view from the basically the culdesac in rinia 11th looking towards that uh church building um kind of along where the right of way that kind of open space is where that right of way for the future connection would be um next slide Mike and then this is just a closeup of the entry uh of the church Under The Canopy is a drop off Zone next slide uh the code does allow churches and schools and residential districts um that's not unusual a lot of cities most cities I work in allow them it's very common even as uh churches have grown from uh rural churches like we have up in Fletcher to larger churches such as the one proposed this evening but I wanted to kind of because there's some comments that suggest maybe this is unusual I just wanted to closely look at a couple of examples nearby that are these types of non-residential uses in residential neighborhoods to provide sort of a sense of scale and context so next slide on the the left is that same image I showed you before of the site plan for Eagle Brook overlaid on the aial the image on the right is the 62,000 square foot Meadow Ridge Elementary School just down uh Hackamore 47 in in Plymouth a very similar sized building again surrounded by single family residential next [Music] slide uh Providence Academy is over on Schmid Lake Road in Plymouth uh much larger facility uh school so Peak traffic is peaking with the adjacent residential traffic uh that's about 120,000 square foot structure in the residential neighborhood and then the image on the right is Church of the open door um in Maple Grove which is about a 62,000 square foot building uh with significant parking uh about 1100 parking stalls on that project again in a residential neighborhood next Slide the preliminary plant would allow the creation of 27 acre lot for the church and a 4 and a half acre outlot and so when we have out Lots the city asks developers to provide a concept for how an outlaw could develop in the future and we do that so that they can see uh where maybe Road Connections would need to happen where utilities would need to be extended to and just provide a um a concept for how it could be developed so we can plan our infrastructure primarily but also gives adjacent land owners a sense of what might or could happen so the applicant has provided a ghost plat um for the for the project that has a concept for a small res residential development in uh the area known as alad the preliminary plant is where we dedicate the right of way that's how the city gets the right of way or the county in the case of 101 I also noted in the staff report that there are some existing driveway emans that run east and west along the south side of ravenia 11th you may remember that uh lenar tried to vacate those as part of the 11th and was able to reach agreement with the adjacent land owners uh the uh applicant now is um moving to try to work with lenar to get that vacated there's also a north south um driveway easement that serves the actual driveway for the Chanel property and that will actually be vacated as part of this as well but adjacent to that driveway easement are also some utility easements so those will get vacated um through to the final plat process and that's a condition of approval but again the plat is about lot sizes uh Frontage uh those kinds of things and the preliminary plat does meet all of those ordinance requirements in the subdivision and zoning ordinance next slide Mr chair yes sir um I know Kendra might have a few more pages here give her a chance to uh drink some water and stuff quick um I if if you could could you remind um the public online and such uh we have all these chats popping up as you mentioned I I would prefer hearing them during their uh their chance on the open hearing and their chance to talk um a lot of them are are uh asking some very serious questions that we all need to see they don't St it up on the screen as long but if you could remind them that we are going to have the open hearing here shortly thank you uh well put uh Mr Ving camp and and and again I saw that you know I should be fired and removed from office um you know it's not my intention by my first uh comment on this to restrict anybody's speech here it's just that you're the the the chat comments are are they're they they get in the way of the image and the words of the presentation and and they are distracting we're we're trying to pay attention to uh the the the the presentation and everything and so uh if there's not a if there's not an easy fix where we could just say well we we we we don't have to display it as part of the presentation great uh but if we if we don't have that luxury I guess we're just going to have to try to deal with it as best we can but I appreciate so just a little bit more too we are volunteers um and that is to all the uh the public folks that are on this we volunteered to do this we volunteered to make recommendations to the council and stuff um to get fired to remove from office or anything like that that's that's if we aren't doing our jobs per per the way things are written so I get a little dialed up about that um I've been on the Planning Commission in Maple Grove for 20 years now on this one for nearly a year I take pride in the things that we we say and recommend and then it is truly up to the city council to take our recommendations and do whatever so um all of the folks in rinia all of the people on this thing I truly respect I've read every one of your emails and such and uh we we are expecting to hear the public hearing and every one of your comments um I would expect again um chair commissioner m Mr chair um total respect online I know we've had a few in the past where people have made uh non-respect comments and we've got a a a way to deal with those folks but we want to hear everybody's comments and I'd rather hear them than see them on this chat thank you all right thank you uh Kendra you uh if you're ready to continue please do so sure so the image on the screen is the plat and again the plat is really just about the parcel bound so lot one block one is the South part of the site the 27 Acres that would be ploted as a lot that the church could build on and on the North you see the four and a halfish uh Outlaw a uh which is not being proposed for development at this time and uh but would be available for a development consistent with the rsf2 standards next slide I mentioned the ghost and again the city requires this the applicant has been clear that they don't have any plans to develop this uh this image was in your packet as well but this just shows how an in this case they've shown a nine lot subdivision but how out lot a could be developed generally consistent with the rsf2 standards and what's important about that is that it shows uh the connection to Lupine um that provides access to this parcel next next slide so again uh the staff report reviews the application against the standards in the zoning and the subdivision ordinance and that's the commission's job this evening is to review the application against the standards in the city code the city's discretion on this application like any site plan or conditional use permit or clad application is to review it to to deter determine whether or not it meets the standards in the ordinance if it meets the standards in the ordinance the city must approve we can add conditions where we think uh the standards or the intent haven't been fully met um but the review is not whether um this is the project you would build on the site but whether the application complies with the ordinance standards the Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the city council and then the city council will take action on at the July 23rd meeting if this application is approved by the city council The Next Step would be for the applicant to submit a final platin a development contract and at that point we would have the final details for all of the uh landscape plan the storm water management plan those kinds of things and we would prepare a development contract that outlines the church's Financial Cal responsibilities that is the turn Lanes on 101 the turn Lanes on Hackamore the extension of utilities the TAC fees and all those kinds of things next uh if they if they did move through the process if they did get approval their uh goal would be to open for Easter in 2022 which would mean if the Hackamore project stays on track the Hackamore project would be done in 2021 in advance of the church opening next slide so uh I I know that that is not every detail in the staff report Mr chair the intent was to highlight the key issues uh next we would open for the applicant to provide comments and then open the public hearing and take public comments again all emails letters petitions have been shared with the commission and entered into the public record but based on the facts of the ordinance staff recommends approval of the draft resolution approving the site plan and conditional use permit with the conditions uh and findings in the draft resolution and approval of the resolution approving the preliminary plot with the conditions in the attached resolution and I'd be happy to answer any clarifying questions Mr chair if you'd like before the applicant speaks um at this point um let's move uh to the uh applicant presentation please thank you Kendra by the way I know that was a lot to present um and our applicant um um Stephanie hobber did I get that name right yes did okay Stephanie welcome thank you for your time and um the uh the floor is yours so to speak great thank you chair Jacobs and thank you Kendra uh for the presentation and thank you um to the rest of the Commissioners for the opportunity uh to be here on behalf of Eagle Brook Church tonight um I'd also like to thank the city of corkran as well because we've appreciated working with them over the last year as we have pursued uh potential locations for this campus um so like chair Jacob said my name is Steph harber and I am the expansion director at Eagle Brook Church and really my intent tonight is going to be to share a brief overview of of who Eaglebrook is uh I really would like to share the heart of of who we are and maybe touch on some points as to why we do what we do um Kendra did an amazing job of of really uh sharing a lot of those details and maybe maybe I will be able to um fill in on some of those concerns that I know have come up as well um I do want to start out by saying though that Eagle Brook when we build in a new community uh we do hold being a great neighbor as one of our very top priorities uh we are consistently thinking about how our site will impact surrounding neighborhoods um and the safety of those surrounding neighborhoods um but before I dive into some of those concerns I do want to share a brief like I said um some of you may not know but Eagle Brook Church is one church we do have nine locations uh currently we have six permanent sites and we have three mobile sites um and we are here tonight because of one of our mobile sites that meets in the wetta high school now Eagle Brook actually started in a living room in 1948 in whitear Lake uh a small group of people started meeting because they really wanted to reach their community for Christ and now here we are 72 years later and that does Remain the mission of this church uh to reach people and to reach communities for Christ we truly believe um when one person's life has changed that their family has changed and the ripple effect is that entire communities are changed because of that and so I do want to point out that in 2005 we we built out we built our Lio Lake Campus with the intent of that campus being our only campus uh we were meeting in the Wier Lake Campus uh and we opened the doors at Lio um after closing that campus because we really wanted the lion Lakes campus to be Eagle Brook Church um but on opening weekend and the weekends Beyond uh we had attendance that was so overwhelming that the leadership at the time decided to reopen the wiper Lake Campus which we now uh talk about and say how we accidentally fell in to being a multi-site church now I say that because I I think it's important to note that it really has never been about getting big for us um it's always been about reaching that one lost person and Watching God transform their lives because we truly believe that every single person in the communities that we're in in the surrounding communities in in the Twin Cities um and Beyond actually matter to God and every every single person has a story and so we want to provide a place for them to come uh and get to know God and explore their faith in different ways now as I mentioned we are meeting at the wetta high school currently right now uh this campus is an incredible campus it's one of our busiest mobile sites a lot of amazing things have happened there um and has seen tremendous growth over the last two years um and I do want to point out too uh that 30% of our attenders there are kids and that means that a large amount of those attenders are young families uh which we think is pretty incredible for this area and I also want to point out too just to reference this when we move from a mobile site to a permanent site we typically see our attendance double if not triple in that first year and so when it comes to the size and scale of our buildings uh that is in part so that we can anticipate the growth that will occur so I do want to just address a few things if I have a few more minutes uh to share just about some of the concerns that I have also read in the emails and the and the letters that have gone to the city as well as even speaking to a couple of residents as well um our size and scale I would love to address that uh it's no secret that we operate on a much larger scale uh and our model looks a bit different than the average Church um but over the course of time we really have turned the dial so to say on our model and have found great balance in how we build our sites and so when we do build a 70,000 square foot building with a 1500 seat Auditorium I just need people to hear that we do it with great intention um as I mentioned before we do it and build in anticipation of the growth that will happen but it also is a better experience for our tenders and it's safer for the surrounding communities so let me explain that comment if we were to operate on a smaller scale we would have to hold more services which means that would be an increase in traffic in the area um to accommodate for the amount of attenders that we will that we will have um and then I mentioned 30% of this campus is kids uh and small and young families that are attending we also dedicate an entire portion of our 70,000 squ Fair building uh to our kids ministry kids ministry is incredibly important to us we're very family focused um and believe church that plays a crucial role in a child's uh trajectory I know that's been true of my own kids um we really want kids to have an incredible experience at church and that is why we dedicate those spaces um to kids ministry we also have a lot a lot of open uh space in our buildings and we really are thinking about that first time attender um it takes a lot of courage to come to church for the first time uh it takes a lot of um guts to walk through those doors for the first time and we want to provide a space for people to be able to move around in not feel trapped not feel boxed in um be able to have a seat on our soft seating if they can or grab a coffee in the cafe um it's incredibly important for us that people feel welcomed when they come into our buildings they feel safe and they feel that we have actually prepared for them to be there so with our size and scale we have talked a lot about the parking lots as well and I do want to speak uh to the parking lots and the concerns that are there uh it does feel like it's too big for our facility excuse me um but we have tracked this number for years uh really our top priority is to have enough space for everyone and this includes our intenders but it also takes into consideration our volunteers and our staff that are there every weekend as well it takes hundreds of volunteers for our services to go well on the weekends so we do uh anticipate that growth that's why the parking lot is the way that it is um we actually do uh have quite busy Easter and Christmas services as well um and if we were to decrease the amount of spots and don't have enough especially on those busy uh weekends people will make their own spots and so that includes the side of Roads it also includes includes surrounding neighborhoods uh it includes wherever someone can actually find a spot which is exactly what we want to avoid and I will say we have been working closely with the city um about not having those connections like Kendra said into the surrounding neighborhoods excuse me I'm going to take a drink here now one thing I do want to note is that we will we will not always fill our parking lot up and we know that but I will say when we when we do need those spots it's absolutely worth having them so with a large parking lot we do know that traffic is a concern as well and I think Kendra really highlighted that really well as all the precautions that we do take as a church to help with that traffic um and I really am confident that traffic flow will be smooth and more importantly safe when people are exiting and entering our our lot one more drink here take your time Stephanie um sorry I don't know why my throat is just so dry now and I'm almost finished I promise the last concern I do want to address to is the landscaping and again Kendra did an an awesome job at at sharing just our intent when it comes to screening um I know I'm going to sound like a broken record but this is something that we're really intentional about so again working closely with the city to identify the appropriate amount of screening on all sides of the site and then we've shifted the layout so we're working tirelessly with our design team to ensure um that we're not encroaching on surrounding neighborhoods excuse me so I know that change can be difficult uh we are well aware and we have heard all your concerns and we have really taking a lot of them into consideration please note though that Eagle Brook is committed to be a church that invests in the corkran community uh as well as the surrounding communities too because we consider ourselves not just to be operating out of the community we do consider ourselves to be a part of the community and think we will be a big benefit to the community as well so thank you for your time and thank you for allowing me to speak I apologize for my my voice going here okay thank you Stephanie um before you disconnect um Brad and and Kendra as long as she's on the line would it be appropriate for us to maybe if we've got some just questions right off the top to ask them at this point Mr chair it's up to you I think it' be nice to open the hearing sooner than later got not get too far field for folks I think we have what 80 some people on the call right now so okay up to you all right Stephanie are you going to are you going to stay online with this meeting and you'll be make yourself available for any questions that we may have of you directly Absolutely I'll do my best all right thank you very much thank you all right um at this point then uh we will open the uh public hearing uh Brad would you like to give some uh direction as to how we will manage this process here sure thank you chair and members so again this is the time to either do star star n or use the raised hand function on your phone U Mike will be calling people in the order that they kind of show up in his queue um so whatever that is um I will be we want to have a chance for everyone to speak who wants to speak so we'll be monitoring kind of trying a five minute limit um and then when that time has come I'll say Mr chair we're up to five minutes and then um ask you to probably wrap it up or after everyone has spoke that's up to the chair to either open up again at that point but the main goal is again to make sure everyone gets a chance to speak and again those emails letters have all been made part of the public record as well so with that um it's a if there's same comment over and over please know that we've seen them as well but it is a public hearing um for those to speak so that's all I have uh Mike do we have folks lined up yes we do we have quite a few all right hey we should also just Again State uh this is a public hearing and so you are required or we would greatly request uh that you state your name and your address for the record thank you chair so we'll start off right now um with Minaj Thomas I'm gonna ask you to unmute and then you can just state your name address and you get going can you hear me now yes we hear you perfect uh give me one second this is just I was trying to get the video on but it doesn't matter uh so perfect uh so this is mano Thomas residing at 6552 carriageway I would like to start off by thanking the commission for this opportunity I've listened to the commission deliberate on similar topics in the past and quite passionately I request you to do the same on this uh I I hope you see the gaps and request some changes uh this will ensure the proposed building does not create a disruption or endanger the community as be fear uh before I get into my talking points I have to make note of some things I heard U Easter Christmas Peak volumes that's not you don't take your worst case scenario of planning infrastructure we all know that you guys are the city that's just faulty logic I work in data and analytics working with 4 500 firms that's just not the way you plan anything uh trip triple growth in the first year uh great I'm happy for the church I didn't see can planning that or the staff planning that in the growth volumes saying that this is going to be triple sized and we need to factor that in to your traffic analysis uh be good neighbors I love that about a church if they want to be good neighbors didn't get a single memo didn't get a single reach out till we reached out to say he we have issues right uh first thing about being neighborly is to show up uh it's great on a presentation I appreciate that but we would like to see some action behind that uh the staff made such an awesome job of presenting it I don't know why we have EBC on here um and at the same level I wish we had the same representation on here comparing it to schools is just off track uh one Services the community it goes in it uses the domain uh if it's a public school so it's it's different from a church I want to see what percentage of their congregation as actually from Corran right so that's different from when you come from a school you are in a school district and you come from local communities having said that we have a petition of over thousand homeowners that oppose the plan as it stands I know it's the voice of the the electrol right and you can decide how you want to use it and stick to ordinances the plan while excessive also lacks appropriate infrastructure or and lack landscape improvements to support it in a low density residential Zone according to us the major concerns of the residents are like KRA not noted under safety privacy and comfort I'm here going to take my time to talk about just the traffic concerns I have there are other leaders who will talk about the others that way we respect your time and we all don't have to say the same thing I'm concerned about the accuracy of the traffic assessment report submitted to the plan planning committee that is used to recommend by the staff the data used for the analysis is outdated I again like I mentioned I worked with data analytics what you get in modeling garbage in garbage out right and then you don't take the output and say this proves everything 2019 traffic data uh not from an actual count on actual intersections is an issue uh the base data does not account for H's growth volume that they have projected and also to Stephanie's Point does not account for their own growth projection to go three times and that is huge volume by EC's own admission the one plan for the traffic in this report by is a gross estimation not counting all the other improvements that cckr would have along the Hackamore Corridor the software used for this analysis is Synchro based on the report and Sim traffic Synchro is a product of trafficware software by admission of the design of Synchro in a report on the trafficware website the software was not intended to use for capacity planning purposes but instad used by Engineers for Signal timing for traffic lights Sim traffic is also not a capacity planning tool there is a capacity planning tool capability within the software but the report does not mention using it or provide the capacity of the impactor roads or intersections even without considering that major Gap the software still has a margin error of 30% according to its own designer there I can provide you copy of the software's designers report that documents the same the report also excluded some important elements that to Kendra noted that came in late did not analyze The Pedestrian and Trail traffic for safety at the intersections even though the trails are part of a site plan other traffic studies I have research show this comprehensively it does not consider any other intersections that see traffic from uh this development along with along 101 from Bass Lake Road to 55 there are nine uncontrolled neighborhood access points between the site and 55 for several developments 101 is the only outlet and not considering that the final outcome and looking at looking at it just from the hacko corridor is just I I would say it just not meet Common Sense my ask is that the commission request an independent study using relevant data for capacity this report or study should determine the road capacity using an intersection capacity utilization method which has better accuracy it has only a it has aror threshold of 10% it should also look past at hakam mod to find the overall impact of the project the second part of my concern with traffic is a mitigation step suggested everything on Hackamore is basic at the minimum you need to just land the church there it do it falls short of addressing the traffic con We Believe will hit Hackamore at both 101 and 116 intersections and obviously the county 101 and 160 intersection improvements Hackamore Improvement which was within the power of Madina and Corran to decide right from 2013 and this is 2020 took 7 years to get 30% of the design done uh you're talking about County Highway 101 this is going to be really hard for the residents to get in and out of our homes I would like to get out of my home and reach St Dan where I go for masses on the Sunday morning without getting stuck behind state fair type traffic even my freedom to practice my faith like they like EBC has theirs because of these issues the commission should reject this at a minimum of different a decision until you have a chance to review you what they bring back understanding is a conditional plat approval you provided today when the conditions are met it is reviewed by the staff and sent to the council we believe this committee is the is best positioned to review the conditions if placed and it so which is why we want it to go back out and come back with more information topics outlined here have grave impact on corrent for a very long time hence I request you to exercise your power granted to you by the city and the trust frankly from your neighbors I end I end by making a sincere and passionate appeal to not approve this application with conditions this will ensure that this committee will have a chance to review the changes and not bypass the authority and scrutiny of this committee uh with that I I yield my time there's tons I could say with what I just heard I am not speaking with emotions I'm trying to be objective as much as possible but I know there are more people down the call so I'm going to yal my time and and have them go on with concerns they have seen thanks for the time thank you Mr Thomas um if I may um I I don't think we uh spoke uh about this so uh during the public hearing process um we as commissioner members and I know uh our professional staff and and Brad are taking notes and what we have done historically is that uh once the uh public hearing is finished uh then we will try to address some of those issues but I know that Kendra's presentation already tried to address some of that but we'll try to answer as many of those as we can but knowing that in many instances some of that might take some followup um uh after this meeting is over so uh Mr Thomas you've raised some good points and those will be noted and and and for whatever we can uh comment and answer those during this tonight's meeting uh we will do so after the public hearing has concluded I appreciate that thank you okay uh Mike um we'll move on to number two Pete Harts please state your name and address and you get started yes can you hear me okay yes we hear you my name is Peter Harts and I am at 19169 Galloway Circle in rinia uh thank you to the commission for this chance for me to speak I'm very concerned about the traffic uh levels and the impact they will have on the neighborhoods uh as well as the side streets nearby uh as uh Minos has stated the traffic study recognizes uh that traffic will have significant backups of up to 30 minutes on 101 in hackamore in that in that intersection area uh of Greater concern to myself and others however is the risk to life health and safety that these traffic jams will present present um I personally have needed to the use of a cardiac defibrillator three times in the last five years because of my heart what happens when a police car a fire truck or an ambulance must get through that corner during a traffic jam because of a fire police or medical exam emergency or what happens if a child is struck by a car that cut through the neighborhood and taking a shortcut to try and get home or was parked there to begin with uh from somebody who decided to avoid the traffic jam uh and parked in the neighborhood and then left not recognizing that the narrower streets presented that kind of a hazard to a child this could be way worse if they're parking in our neighborhoods which were admitted to by the representative from Eagle Brook Church people will try and explore and discover other ways to get out of those traffic jams you see it all the time when freeways are heavily congested at rush rush hour surface roads through quiet neighborhoods fill up with frustrated people trying to get through their to their own home city as frustrated people who live there can't safely get in and out of their own driveways as a scenario if traffic is backed up at 101 and 47 people exit the parking lot and turn right on Hackamore then they will either turn left onto bergamont driver right onto steeple chase Lane to get around that corner depending on whether they need to go north or south on 101 these are narrow side roads not engineered for through traffic some of these side streets do not even have sidewalks on them for the kids to play on to avoid getting hit by cars and trucks just that easily the traffic from the church has put people in two residential neighborhoods in Jeopardy people in boner and Maple Grove have also expressed concerns about this online traffic is like water it will escape out any available path uh already mentioned was that there are nine develops developments on Highway 101 between between 55 um and Cony Road 47 for six of those access points the only outlet from that neighborhood is on to 101 which means these people have no other route to go to go to leave their homes this creates a dangerous situation on 10 because people will need to force their way through traffic coming north to the church and going south away from the church at the same time the fact that this is a single Lane Road in each direction will mean that people will need to take risks on two smaller gaps between cars or mis cars and get sideswiped by traffic moving at what our highway speeds remember this is a 50 Zone online one online commenter who lives in a neighborhood adjacent to another Eaglebrook Church location has stated that they are unable to leave their neighborhood from 300 p.m. to 9:00 P p.m. on Saturday during normal happenings at the church the Planning Commission must take into consideration what is best for the residents of those four cities that meet at 101 and Hackamore that would be impacted by this project over 1,000 people have signed a petition asking that you keep us safe please request a new traffic study please reject this proposal or at a minimum send it back to be redone so it can be fully reconsidered by you at a later date with updated information including a more accurate traffic study using the correct tools thank you for your time okay Mr Harts uh I appreciate it thank you very much for your comments all right Mike number three next up is Gary please state your name and your address and you go ahead all right can you guys hear me yes all right I apologize I'm holding a newborn so if there's any squawking uh ignore that um my name is my name is garyan I live at 64 94 Larks for court uh it's one of the renia neighborhoods or it is the renia neighborhood U my first comment I guess is to uh thank that the council members and to to everybody that as as a guy who sits on a couple of boards for some nonprofits I just want to say that people who don't necessarily understand how public policy works the mean comments in the in the chat um as also a guy who falls into the millennial category people hiding behind keyboards is is very disturbing to me so I would encourage all of you who have been saying extremely negative comments to push that raised hand button because this is how public policy works these guys are all volunteers just calling for their heads is not the way this is supposed to go so that's I just want to get off that my chest first um and then I'll go through my my list of topics here um in looking at in Kendra in in your presentation looking at the other five or six properties in Plymouth and Maple Grove that you were talking about to me it looks like there's a heck of a lot more open space surrounding those particularly Providence Academy that is all open space space surrounding we are not talking you know tens of feet between that Province Academy and homes um when you look at the renderings I should also preference on this I'm an engineer I'm a civil engineer I have worked for one of the companies that's involved in this project so I I'm very close to knowing how this whole thing goes the renderings that are done of the church from the different points of views particularly the one that is from Lupine Lane and from the what would be the proposed cross through Street connecting Larks for Lane and Lupine show that church about a quarter of a mile away that's not what the view is going to be that view is we are going to be at that church I mean that is touching distance I know how those renderings work that is not the way it's going to look um so that is a big concern to me as a resident of ravenia that we are not going to have nice trees and then a Long View to the church we are going to have some small trees and we're going to be at the church so that's a big concern proximity wise um traffic through as as both of the previous guys have mentioned traffic through ravenia as a civil engineer traffic through ravenia is going to be that West exit on Hackamore people are going to turn right they're going to go into they're going to go into wild Meadows they're going to cut through renia that's that's not going to be avoidable people are going to do it they're going to try to find shortcuts on my street alone here on larksburg court which only has probably 20 houses the other day I counted 30s something kids playing in the street in the middle of a day we have 30s something kids on this street and I know that there's a ton more in the rest of the development so this is going to be a big concern when I let my three-year-olds go out and play on Sunday mornings when we get home from our church service um so it's it's a big concern for people cutting through because I think you're extremely naive whether you're the church or the city that people aren't going to try to find a different Outlet than hackmore and 101 it's ex you can't be that shortsighted just to not expect them to do that um my backyard looks up to 101 I'm not in favor of this because of the fact that I'm going to be staring at a parking lot on Wednesday nights I'm gonna be staring at a parking lot on Saturday afternoons I'm gonna be staring at a parking lot the entire day on Sunday when I'm trying to spend my quality time with my family in my backyard playing with my kids so it's it's it's not if the church is truly trying to be a a friendly neighbor one there needs to be a ton of visual block there needs to be noise block because this is going to be I've been to Eagle Brook services at other different locations one those other different locations are in Comm or in like industrial areas or commercial areas they're not smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood and I've tried to get out of those parking lots it is terrible my last comment is as an engineer um I've read this traffic study I understand what this traffic study is saying I think the data is flawed and I think everyone on the council needs to understand that the traffic studies are written and the law is written with the grades that they are given the ABCDE E and F they are not written for comfortability they're written for an acceptable level of uncomfortable um when you look at the choke points on this parking study the the sorry I call it a parking study because that's what it is parking lots when you look at the levels of traffic that are going to go through pamore and 101 it is going to be an absolute parking lot on Sundays Saturdays Wednesday nights I don't want to look at pars cars parking out on the street in the middle of the day when I'm supposed to sitting with my family that's why we moved to corkin because we're supposed to be quiet I've been to Eagle Brook services this is not going to be quiet uh I will yield the rest of my time in hopes that we can work together with the church because I'm not opposed to a church but I'm opposed to a church that's going to cause this level of noise and this level of visual disturbance so if the church is willing to put up trees a of them or wall or BMS sure but otherwise I think the city needs to reconsider this I'll yield my time thanks Mr Han thank you very much for your comments um um all right I'm just taking a note I'm sorry um all right Mike do we have um number um citizen number four yes chair next on my list is Tiffany cheets hello thank you for your time my name is Tiffany cheets and I'm a resident of rinia my home backs directly to the parking lot on the west side of the proposed building uh in Kendra's presentation she showed the view of the orange building proposed and then also the parking lot my home is closest to that area it's 631 zero steeple chase Lane I first off off want to tell the commission and everyone that's volunteering their time and to be on this call thank you I really appreciate your time listening to our concerns uh our family spends time together it's mainly on the weekends we have beautiful trees in the back right backyard right now that provide a lot of shelter but our Pines are bare about 2third of the way up so six to seven months of the year there will be no Shelter From the parking lot and the church when there were neighbor issues brought up by Mr hogland when lar was building lenar was asked to evaluate and accommodate him as a neighbor and I am asking the church to do the same thing now it was an expectation Lenard would work with him as a good neighbor residents of Ravinia are now asking for the same treatment with regard to this development applications I I really appreciate that Lupine will not be connected to Larkspur I do have three requests I'd really like to see the designers Implement permanent screening for visual SE operation in the form of a burm approximately six to eight feet or higher with coniferous plantings on top so that it would maintain a buffer even in winter months for homes directly back to the proposed Church along steeple chase Lane I'm curious as well with all the trees that are being cut down in the proposed development could they maybe utilize some of the replanting towards a larger buffer for the residents that are directly impacted by visual of the church I understand that the northwest corner must be platted for the applicant's right of way to be secured I would request that that Outlaw a only be used for residential purposes only and not by the church if for any reason they do not sell that off for residential future purposes um yeah I'd like to ask the commission right now if these requests seem reasonable and and if this is something that you would pass on to the council I do feel like between what Gary and Mino and other residents will be saying in this committee I I hope that they won't I hope that they'll retake a look at all of the facts and come up with with a better plan because right now it's it's not the right plan and I'd like to hear from the commission members Dean I know that you came out earlier and I again really appreciate your time walking in our shoes walking through the yard taking a look at the view what are your thoughts on some of our requests uh well uh Tiffany I um yes I I do remember our meeting and um uh we we will through our discussion after the public hearing um I I have no doubt that we're going to be addressing uh we're going to have questions of Staff of the applicant and and we will be you know talking about these very issues that you brought up so in the in the interest of trying to keep moving the the the public hearing though I I'm afraid you might have to just uh hold online until we get this done before you can hear each and every member's you know thoughts and comments on that if that's okay I appreciate that Dean one more thought too I know that you've got approximately 210 or Eagle Brook Church Stephanie I really appreciate your comments but is there a way to relocate that parking lot at minimum to the east side I I don't see why that wouldn't work with the current configuration so that that is another request that I would like to have added I appreciate your thoughts and comments and thank you all for your time okay thank you Tiffany okay Mike um next uh next speaker please yes next we have Jeremy n Go ahead with your name address and when you're ready hello can you hear me yes we can hear you wonderful excellent uh my name is Jeremy Nichols for the record and I live at 6334 steeple chase my lot is is adjacent to one of the parcels that'll be part of this development I am not concerned about a church being built on this site I'm only concerned because of the massive size of the facility and the parking lot and the resulting harms to me and my neighbors I know the commission is able to make findings objective facts and that facts can cause this plan to be rejected my role tonight is to highlight objective criteria to measure this plan against which are already part of the city code the corkran City Attorney John tames wrote me an email where he stated quote the city maintains the same level of discretion and evaluating the church's application as any other similarly situated applicant the city's obligation is to evaluate the application against the code standards not the applicant the law does not require that a church be treated differently quite the opposite it mandates that the church receive the same land use review as a non-religious entity the issue with this building is not that it is a church it is the scale of the land land use that is too large for the area how do you determine what size of structure is permissible for residential area what was envisioned when the code was written What If This Were 150 square foot 150,000 square foot Stadium themed facility the rsf2 district requirements say places of worship are not a permitted use they are a conditional use meaning special review is necessary and that is why we are all here tonight why is this a conditional use and not a permitted use what is the ordinance trying to control by subjecting all church plans to this process code requirements are still checked for permitted uses so is the cup review there to protect existing residents and if so what should they be protected from how do you know the plan fits into the area is there an objective criteria that could be applied that would allow the commission to avoid making subjective judgments of the plan the city ordinance deals with this in city code 1040.10 neighborhood commercial districts there it says quote the purpose of this zone is to allow single and multi-use commercial buildings at Major intersections on small neighborhood scale sites due to the proximity to residential neighborhoods new buildings shall appear to have similar scale and Design Elements as the neighboring buildings so when buildings are close to neighborhoods the code has limits in place when large buildings are permitted next to neighborhoods there is a size limit of 50,000 square feet regardless of use this is an objective criteria established already in the city code this is the maximum size the city has allowed when it wants to allow commercial buildings Andor intersections that are in neighborhood areas this is similarly situated to the Nega application which will be right up against Residential Lots with no Road separating them and on an intersection of two significant roads proposed building is 70,000 square feet which is bigger than is allowed for a district that borders a residential area if there are valid reasons for all other buildings to be under 50,000 s ft shouldn't those same reasons be applied here as well aren the city's interest in preserving residential areas the same regardless of the youth aren't the residents needs for safety and comfort and privacy the same regardless of use this is not to say that a church can't go here but that church should be kept at the same size as a similarly situated commercial building I anticipate a response here so let me say that I know the rsf2 code doesn't have this requirement that is not the argument what I am saying is that there are legitimate reasons why the city has this limit in C1 the logic for a C1 Zone size limit applies here too just as much as any other similar case where C1 zoning is imagined in fact the impact here is bigger because the building is used when residents or home and for all the reasons my neighbors are here to express these reasons should be sufficient grounds to prevent the city from issuing the conditional use permit for the current size in this Zone if the law requires the church to receive the same review as a non- relgious entity why should the commission Grant permission to allow a building that is 20,000 too large to go next to a neighborhood especially with the highly concentrated traffic it will create versus any other use even for Eaglebrook which has built some big churches this one is unprecedent the staff report states that eagle books proposal is similar to their other churches on close review I found the only buildings they have bigger than this one are multiple stories tall this is the largest building footprint they have by 10,000 square F feet their other building sites referenced in the staff report are not adjoined to people's yards like this one would be I submitted photos via email to show satellite images of the sites listed in the stff the Lio Lakes facility is isolated surrounded by Farms Blaine is off of a highway with industrial Office Park around it woodberry's nearest homes are across a six Lane Road and hundreds of feet away separated by a wide belt of Green Space neither of which is the case for Ravinia where there is no Road and little green space Anoka is just off Highway 10 the C the church obtained this site by converting at Kmart and did not move directly into the neighborhood the homes are all separated from the church by roads and large mature trees the staff report says churches are traditionally found in residential areas but Eagle Brooks are not they are rural or commercial areas while smaller churches are common buildings this bag don't get put into established developments Eagle Brook does not even have another building like this one let alone one forced in next to existing homes over the objections of thousands of owners signified by our petition earlier the planner mentioned two schools in residential areas and this is an example in the staff report also the traffic for schools is Consolidated on buses those buses run during the week and not on weekends and the parking lots are much smaller and offset by play fields and other amenities that are not present here additionally Providence is on 42 Acres not 27 and off of four-lane roads and was built before the homes nearby in 2001 the burdens created by a Church's traffic patterns when this is when it is this large are not comparable open door was also mentioned but Open Door is off of a four-lane road that is very close to a freeway unlike this site which is separated from the nearest highway by 1.6 miles and nine major intersections with neighborhood streets Mr chair and Jeremy just to jump jump in we're we're getting pretty far past time if we could wrap it up please I have one more paragraph is that okay please continue Mr Nichols okay thank you very much I appreciate the leniency using the objective the objective criteria for similarly situated areas already present in the city code the plan as it is now clearly over builds the site through the area the interest that the code is trying to protect for residents are real and worthy of attention and respect because of time constraints others will present more on them my role is to provide objective reasons for you to reject the current plan and work with the church to modify the plan to an appropriate size and remove these negative impacts thank you very much all right Mr Nichols um thank you very much and um for what it's worth you could the time you you just saved me a bunch of time because I had some other questions on the other uh uh EBC sites as well so it was very good thank you yes if I could ask just one question oh it looks like he he got muted I'm unmuted it's okay I did it myself if I may ask a question Mr chair yes please do um Jeremy is all I see on my screen so I I'll address You by Jeremy Jeremy you you you brought up a tremendous number of things my simple question to you what is an appropriate size of a church on this property in your mind I am not trying to go with a subjective measure I'm trying to give the committee an objective measure already in the code I think the maximum I would consider is what is in the code at 50,000 square feet and my preference I would be happy with a church the size of say um Lord of life which is about 40,000 squ feet that seems like an appropriate size building to me I understand thank you for answering I I know what you were trying to do and again I appreciate all of your input and such um I'm going to take a moment here if that's okay Mr chair um I lived on the properties next to Lord of life um back when it was developed in the late 90s early 2000s um that was in a rural area and uh we worked with that church and and came up with some pretty good stuff but we still had tremendous number of traffic issues and stuff and the roads have been changed and developed to this point I always see that that that the roads are going to be insufficient no matter what we all want but uh your input was great you did a great job Jeremy thank you very much thank you Mr chair no problem okay uh let's keep moving um Mike um caller number six yes I have Robert dovenberg go ahead whenever you're ready can you hear me now yes we can I'm I apologize you know sometimes these Zoom meetings aren't Bo they can be tough um I do have video capability if you want to enable that but uh well I'm trying but it's uh it's unfortunately the host has stopped it so I can't um okay but uh nonetheless I'll I'll continue on and if the host wishes to enable it more power to the host um so so first of all uh once again I want to thank everybody on the commission for uh allowing the the group to speak tonight I I assume that goldber mberg oh I'm sorry you need my you need my address yeah that for the record pleas I'm sorry yeah and and don't hold this against me it's it's 335 bergamont uh actually in Madina so please don't hold that against me for the commission but but I do want to make a comment that um if I look out my front door and actually if I sort of crink my head a little bit like this I can actually see the I can actually see the site so I absolutely have a vested interest and maybe before I maybe before I go into my prepared comments I I could address um and I didn't plan to do this but if I could address the photographs that were uh in Miss lindal's presentation um I I live uh within ey shot of the site I can see it from virtually every uh window in the front of my home those photographs were a gross misrepresentation of what this will look like they were not prepared in good faith and and candidly that that causes me even more concern because um the the amount of green space that was represented there I think one of your other I think it was I can't remember who it was suggested that it looked like they're a quarter mile away they're on top of it I can confirm that those photographs are are sadly not accurate um the reason I am speaking tonight um is is multifold um um you've heard from others their concerns I have a bit of a different message uh here tonight and it's regarding other situations like this where uh councils and planning commissions have debated uh similar uh proposals from religious institutions and what I want to do is try to dispel the notion that at least under the uh rluipa act which is a federal act I realize that's not a City act um the the churches actually don't have cart blanch to put a facility wherever they wish and I realize this is perhaps more of a discussion for the council meeting but I want to bring it up here um and in particular I want to bring up the case of um great Life Church versus Douglas County which was a Nevada case and I think you'll see some pretty pronounced similarities here um in that case the uh city council uh denied the conditionally used permit for the church and they did so on the following grounds they said that the church wouldn't be compatible with the neighborhood in which it exists there were substantial concerns about the traffic and the safety uh surrounding the church and the church failed to show that there were no other suitable locations to place the church and and I might add just as I go through this this that um when challenged in court convenience has not been uh viewed favorably by the court so in other words simply wanting a convenient location or a location within a particular school district for example has has not been viewed favorably by the courts um the court also noted the substantial which is what they their term was substantial uh uh public opposition to the to the church um I'd also know that the substantial public opposition in that case was 35 people and last time I looked at the petition it was uh nearly 1,50 people um so look my suggestion is that actually my first my first point was I want to make sure that the committee or the Planning Commission and the uh city council understands at least in so far as federal law goes there is considerable cover for you to say no to the application secondly um I want to suggest an alternative approach here I know some of my uh friends and neighbors have suggested modifications to the proposal I'd like to suggest something different I'd like to suggest that the committee or that the um Planning Commission uh and the city council work with Eaglebrook to find another location that is perhaps more suitable for uh the purpose one where it's not disruptive to the neighborhood one where the building is not the same size as a Cub Foods which is true one where the parking lot is not the same size as the Target parking lot uh at 55 uh and 101 uh and locate that facility in a different location where fewer of these issues actually exist and and again I want to point out that um over time the courts have said simply located in a school district or in a convenient uh radius to their existing uh facility does not present and forgive the the Deep legal argument but does not present a substantial burden uh to that church chair just Robert rep pass time at this point I'm I I apologize listen I will uh I will pause there um I I one more thing I want to note if if you don't mind and this will take 10 seconds um I I do want to address one thing um that I heard from uh Steph and forgive me if I butcher the last name halber hober um the uh um smaller services do not mean more traffic they actually mean less traffic but ex uh extended over a longer period of time so I wanted to just directly refute that uh that particular point and with that I apologize for running over thank you very much for your time uh Dean I'm sorry but I believe you're on mute if you're trying to speak so forgive me for you my my dog came in from outside so I had to mute and uh but you're right uh I appreciate it and uh thank you for sending me that case earlier today very good thank you very much everybody you beta um okay uh Mike uh number seven yes I have Andrew S go ahead and state your full name and address and get started yeah hi my name is Andrew Schultz and my address is 6569 ziron Lane North and I'm about 1,700 feet from the proposed property to the north and just off of 101 to the east in Bonair and uh I wanted to share my support for the Church um I've got three kids three years ago we moved to this area to to raise our kids uh with the great school district and and the park and just the great neighborhoods around here and we started to go to different churches we went to churches in Maple Grove and Plymouth and Medina then ended back in Plymouth when Eaglebrook opened up with their new wetta campus and found that to be the church that resonated with us that was really good with families really good with you know our kids programs and so that's where we've we've landed and so we knew that they were looking for a couple years very close to the wetta campus and when this property was chosen we're really excited that it was going to be in our neighborhood and the thought of you know our kids friends uh attending that church uh you know just creating that close sense of of family in the neighborhood so uh we're really in support of it um there's definitely some concerns for the immediate neighbors and I think those you know should be rev viwed but I know that Eagle Brook Church is going to be a great neighbor um today they have uh parking attendance at the Yetta high school they're very efficient they make sure you know people have spots they keep people moving they get them in and and they get them out and today it's only over you know it's not a one1 the traffic's over on male at the high school right now and yes we know that the church would probably grow in this position or or location as Stephanie had mentioned but today there is no noticeable you know traffic and what traffic there is it is on the weekends it's on Saturday Sunday the the bad traffic that I see is when I commute to work on 101 early in the mornings and and in the afternoons on the weekdays so there is that offset of of traffic there that um I don't think we will'll clog up rush hour traffic I I do think it's a really nice lot you know uh it is going to be developed in some form some way here um I I was happy to see all the Green Space the ponds there I I do think that Eagle Brook is doing you know a good job to meet the codes and uh hopefully take into consideration some of these statements from the neighbors here to to do a good job of shielding um as as I think that you know is important to be neighborly like that and I think they will um and and my hope is that as more information is is revealed here you know people become more comfortable with this I know that eagle Brook's heart is in the right place uh We've really enjoyed um being with them and um I guess I think that's all that I've got to say but uh I just wanted to share my support here when I started to see the petition pop up and and thought that I would voice my support for it thank you I think you're on mute sorry about that again uh thank you Mr Schultz um much appreciated um Mike um caller number eight yes we have Sarah Jane Nichols States your name address and go ahead can you hear me okay yes we can okay great um my name is Sarah J Nichols and I live at 6334 steeple chase Lane and I would just like to just thank the commission for the opportunity to speak tonight uh my property adjoins the Eagle Brook mega church location and you have just heard my husband a few people back speak to that um additionally I have sent some photos via email that you should have all received and I'm sure that you have looked at um based on comments from this evening that I've heard um my main concerns are about privacy noise and traffic due to this proposed structure and it's very very large parking lots um so first of all the church is planning to put a large parking lot in their garbage dumpsters on the western edge of their proposed parcel which is adjacent and diagonal to my property line um as you've seen in the photos that I provided that shows a view from my kitchen window so my home is going to be looking directly into their parking lot in their Orange Building um and many of the trees that are a scream for me now are going to be removed when Lupine Lane extends to larksburg um and then additionally um we stood back where that sight Line is now going to be and you can basically see directly into my backyard in home um because of the close proximity to my property line so people in that parking lot are going to have a direct view into my home my children's bedroom windows and my yard um and please not I have two small children who enjoy playing in their backyard without without being concerned about being watched by strangers so for the Safety and Security of my family uh there should be no parking lot in this location and so I would like to ask that the church would move that proposed Northwest parking lot in garbage area away from the residential homes in this area in order for me and my neighbors to continue to have the same privacy security and quiet as we do right now um the overall parcel is large and the proposed mega church and its parking lots are set very far back close to the established residential homes um not with this green space buffer that it looks like in the mockup pictures that that's just not what's reality um we all expected to have single family homes built in this lo location someday not to have large parking lots and an enormous building structure adjoining our properties um secondly the city has requested that Eaglebrook extend Lupine Lane to meet with Larkspur as part of this project and this is actually not something that Eagle Brook has even asked to do and this action is from a ghost plat that the city has had in place when the area was expected to be more lowdensity residential homes um and so one of the pictures that I sent shows a picture of Lupine Ling today and then um we my husband and I crossed out what the trees would would be eliminated when that goes through um so I I would just ask that the city not do that right now um and that would help with the following issues it would provide some additional screening privacy at at no cost to anyone and it would also help with noise concerns that come from the proposed mega church struct structure and parking lots that are placed very close to homeowners uh the church would still be able to create a utility easement not a road so they are able to get at those um and then I also would just request that there is some kind of Covenant made that's recorded that there would never now or in the future be traffic on Lupine lane or into any of the neighborhood roads in rinia it's down there um eventually when Outlaw a is sold Lupine could go through as a residential outlet for homes only um and then no traffic would occur at that time um so and I just think keeping Lupine Lane as a dead end would make it impossible for Demolition and construction equipment to be carried into the the site as it's going to be demolished and trees are going to be torn down and homes are going to be torn down and it's going to be noisy and there's going to be a lot of equipment um and I just would appreciate not having those things come through my neighborhood and on the streets that are in rinia um so I think that keeping Lupine the way that it is as a as a dead end would just solve a lot of those problems um and additionally I just want to mention that I'm very concerned about the amount of traffic that this proposal generates in and around my neighborhood and when the parking lot locations are so close to Lupine and there's no formal plan for Outlaw a it's difficult for me to believe that the church doesn't have an intention of utilizing neighborhood streets for church traffic at some point in the future I think it's important that this be really clearly addressed and defined in the plan plan so that there's no surprises for homeowners later on um I I do not think that the traffic study that was included in the staff report effectively captures the traffic impact Eaglebrook will have on the neighbors surrounding Highway 101 and Hackamore um my only ways out of my neighborhood are impacted by this project and the traffic study has a lot of issues that have already been previously discussed um I the data that in the traffic study also doesn't account for any of the church growth over time and the church itself provided the data which do I I just kind of question the validity of that and and also would just request that there be an independent traffic study that is conducted just to ensure that all safety concerns are met um I just in in some I just want to say that the the Planning Commission needs to ensure that this and the other issues brought forward tonight are corrected before it allows this proposal to move forward please reject this plan and do not approve it even with conditions the planning commission's role is to ensure oversight of the development of this community all concerns relating to a building of the size scope and Community impact should be fully addressed before the plan is allowed to proceed conditional approvals are not appropriate in this case given the level of Resident concern showed for this proposed site this plan should be redone and reviewed Again by the Planning Commission or rejected as not meeting the requirements of the conditional use permit um so I yield my time and I just would again like to thank you all for your time this evening okay thank you Sarah Jane um we appreciate your comments and uh we've taken uh notes of them um Mike um caller number nine yes I have lenee bosma please state your name address you can go ahead my name is Fred Van kusy and I'm just using Len's phone because my computer died but I live at 6215 hackmore Circle which is on the west side of the development now there's 50 acres behind me that it's going to be developed by G was a holding Pond by back in G's property all the water from Ravina going west goes through through the property line goes underneath the old Brer place down to the holding ponds goes behind Hunter and all ends up down where you're proposing to build the church but when we had the the road meeting it was only 30% done supposedly it was there was two proposals a one lane road with a few turning Lanes or turning Lanes well how are you going to get all this traffic and a on Lane Road and what are you going to do with the storm water because the road's going to all go in there you got a 850 car parking lot that's all going to have to drain down into the storm which will all end up in Plymouth on the corner of Plymouth at 101 and 47 now are they aware you're going to do this plus Madina has Thorp Brothers I I guess it's uh py now but they're planning on building homes that come down to hatm more an is planning to build homes cross 116 you know they're going to build when our plans on building on on the west side there P Moro through street to them how is the traffic because the East End is proposed to be done by 2022 I think when we had the meeting and the West stand wasn't even discussed when they were going to start that and also at the road meeting they said any road changes were going to be paid for by none of the homeowners were going to be assessed I'm not hearing that now I'm me who's going to pay for the hackmore improvements lar the church and the homeowners is what the lady said um so I don't know until you get a finalization of what that Road's going to look like on that corner how do you propose to dump 850 cars two times on Saturday and two times on Sunday and uh that's just my comment oh I forgot one other thing are they going to light the parking lot because all those views they show to the proposed Church there's no Street lighting or anything are they gonna light the light that area and are they gonna shut the lights off at 10 o'clock or how are they going to do that that's all I am to say okay um I I apologize I I didn't get your your last name here in my notes Fred Ben kusy B KY okay all right well Mr benkusky uh thank you very much uh for your input and you said you lived on what street I live on hackmore Circle which is just a four houses off a hack okay great thank you okay um um Mike next caller please Tom mck uh St your name address and go ahead thank you thank you um my name is Tom mck I live at uh 6633 Bridal path here in corkran and um first of all I wanted to thank you for the opportunity to speak to everyone and and wanted to thank all my neighbors for uh being so involved in their input on on this situation um I wanted to touch on a few things that have already been brought up um namely the insufficient data around the traffic study um one point that I think has not been mentioned about that is the proposed uh improvements on Hackamore and 101 that have taken three years to get to this phase of almost starting um that I believe Kendra said that would start in 2021 which seemingly would line up with when the church if approved would be undergoing construction as well as the additional parts of Ravinia and the other developments that are being uh approved that have already been approved uh in the area and I believe that the the traffic load on that road would only be compounded how serious the issues would be if the road is under construction for a year well the church is under construction and the developments are under construction um secondly I believe it was Andrew who spoke about uh not having many or any uh traffic issues at their wetta location at wetta High School I would like to point out that uh wi Isetta High School is right off of a four-lane road whereas this would be off of an intersection of two two-lane roads uh which I believe with possible exception of Theo Lakes location uh each each one would be on a better a bigger Road um going into their their property um my other concerns rest with the lack of information we have about the other propos the other uses of this property outside of the obvious worship services and things that go along with with a church namely uh music and concert uh venue that they tend to have at all of their locations and I know uh it's been FK it's been emphasized that Eaglebrook wants to be a good Community member and part of the neighborhoods that they go into and I and I hope that is true I'd love to give them the benefit of the doubt on that I do have some concerns and I'd like to uh read this quote from the Eaglebrook annual report in 2018 from Senior Pastor Bob Merritt where he said there have always been scary battles that we've had to fight through lack of resources staff shortages internal conflict zoning delays affordable land and quote when will you turn down the music we've heard it fight it agonize over it and never seem to resolve it uh that gives me some serious concerns that this is not the first time uh this has been an issue and in his own words they never seem to resolve it um other than that I won't uh bog down everyone's Time by reiterating the same concerns I have about how this uh conditional use permit should not be approved in my opinion I thank you for your time and I I will yield all right Mr mcke thank you very much Mike next please okay next on my list I have an excuse if I do not pronounce your name correctly no narian Nan please state your name address and go ahead perfect uh hi everybody my name is navaran uh and I live in 6672 carriageway in corpin I do have a prepared speech that I'll get into but I want to highlight that my concerns are primarily with with the proposed project stem from traffic safety and impact the property values of the neighborhood homes including uh like myself and those concerns are primarily due to the size of the project uh please note I'm not against the church building uh but it's the size and the scale so I do want to start by thanking the commission and the council uh and then being a first generation American I value this privilege of public discourse around policy so my goal today is to show that there isn't objective evidence that the development plan meets the requirements in the conditional use permit Ordinance one because of the large scale in the location being unprecedented the commission should not give the project the benefit of Doubt the benefit of Doubt should go to normal scale projects this is not a normal scale project and will have different impacts than a typical Church highlighted by my neighbors and other people earlier who spoke before me it should be clearly proven that the cup requirements are met the burden to prove should be on the project and not on the residents and homeowners the staff report attempts to address the requirements to Grant the conditional use permit but it makes unsupported assertions that rest on traditional scale projects which I believe did not apply in this case second the cup ordinance sets several criteria for the plan to clear section B says you have to know it is not detrimental to safety or resident Comfort this is addressed with two sentences in the staff report first the report says and I quote the church facility complies with all ordinance standards for development in the rsf-2 district residential single family-2 District this assumes that the rsf 2-2 ordinance is adequate to protect residents it is not and that is why religious institutions like churches are a conditional use hence there has to be extra or additional review to protect the current residents the commission must determine the cup requirements are met for the plan to proceed and the information provided is not enough to make that determination there is no safety analysis or any objective evidence that this will not impact the comfort of the resident you should not allow this to proceed without knowing these requirements are met second the report saids churches have historically been located in residential areas and again that's a quote and there is no empirical data to suggest that this would be detrimental to public health safety morals or comfort the historical argument does not support the conclusion because there is no history of this kind of development the statement that there is no empirical evidence is undermined because of the uniqueness of this proximity to Residents and the sheer size more than thousand people and about thousand plus in the area have signed a petition for this plan to be rejected unless safety and traffic issues are 100% addressed we as a community clearly think these are issues that need resolution uh I think one of my neighbors actually presented example or similar City probably rejected a mega church request uh for all the special permit uh because of traffic and its impact on the quiet character of the neighborhood historical evidence showing churches this big in this kind of area can be rejected and residents documented concerns are enough to create a high burden of proof for the project to proceed and that burden in my opinion has not been met section c of the cup ordinance says you have to know that the conditional use isn't injurious to the use an enjoyment of other property already there and doesn't diminish or impair property values the staff reports response here is I quote the church will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity of the permitted uses in The rsf-2 District staff is not aware of any evidence to suggest that development will diminish or impair value the lack of evidence known to staff is not compelling in this case due to the size and homes bordering the location which are unique but this one charge alone is in the top 0.4% of churches for attendance and the location is unprecedent even for them as I think pointed out by somebody earlier I have three points for the impairment and Value First in in your packet the Anderson cental letter which is on page 151 it says that they will pull out of a purchase agreement for a bordering property if this gets approved to me that is objective evidence and clearly shows impairment of values because it shrinks the market for these homes second several residents have stated that they would move or would not have bought if this was already here this show selling of homes will be impaired as many people don't want this to be this close to this size of a structure and parking facility people will move and the area will will definitely become less appealing overall third I want to cite a 27 article from a Stanford data scientist and it's it's on realtor.com people can Google it and find it that showed homes within 0.5 miles of churches with attendance over or close to 2,000 have values of 5% lower than the rest of the ZIP code so there is objective evidence that when a church this large can impact value significantly all of Ravinia falls under this category with the distance being so close on the impact to users already permitted there are clear harms to the thousands of people already in the area this is made by the petition that we talked about with thousand plus people signing specifically the traffic noise the traffic study with incomplete data not showing acceptable level of risk and inconvenience the safety implications at multiple intersections light pollution hours of corridors noise and everything else that you know crowds flowing in and out are harmful that is why buildings of this size are usually put in commercial areas that is why I feel the church has this is what the church has done in other locations at Twin Cities it has not managed to do this inside and next to multiple residential areas at this scale resident exists for cities to reject these kind of applications in areas so this should not be allowed to proceed and I'll I'll end my comment here because of these issues I'm asking this commission to reject the conditional use permit or an absolute minimum delay its decision until all relevant and correct information has been provided even better I think a lot of people have talked about it that another you know if they have uh there's an other open site that actually can be used with their existing plan if you look in corkran you you take a car you can find several that are currently on sale I think somebody also addressed that so this would be in my opinion treating their application fairly according to code just like any other use uh and as law and good judgment requires so thank you uh I want to thank everybody and I yield my time uh thank you Mr Nan I I hope I I hope I said that right U you did all right you too thank you very much uh Michael uh uh speaker number 12 please yes next I have Blain Schneider state your name address and go ahead can everybody hear me okay yes all right great um as you said name is bla Schneider I'm at 6449 larksburg court and I do want to thank you guys for holding this so that at least we can get um get some perspective from the people in the neighborhood um one of the things I did want to point out too is the date of this hearing um we're doing this on July 2nd which is a holiday weekend for a lot of people so um although there are quite a few people on this call I know of a lot of other neighbors uh within rinia and other neighborhoods that aren't able to make this call because they're out on vacation already so just want to point that out and encourage everybody to look at the petition that has been going around and been signed by over a thousand people so please take a look at that um one of the things I really did want to to highlight and again this is going to Echo a lot of the things that people have said already but I think it's important to to drive this home just so that uh the committee can realize how important this is to a lot of people here um but the decision to put this in an existing residential neighborhood is a little bit worrisome to me um with the talk about wanting to be a good neighbor I think it makes a lot more sense to put the church in a neighborhood that's more wide open and allow people to move in there that that want to be by a church um I think that has an impact in a number of ways right so we've already talked about the traffic impact um a lot of the concern for the traffic is going to be is this going to lead to an expansion of 101 um and Hackamore and if it does lead to that expansion you know what's that going to do to our property values so a lot of concern there with the church itself and the expansion of uh the roads around it um also our ability to just get in and out of our neighborhood so I know somebody had talked about how it's not going to impact rush hour traffic that much well my concern mostly because a lot of people are working at home these days is when Saturday and Sunday roll around and I want to go out and do things with my family am I gonna have to sit at you know the entrance of rinia for a half hour just to get out um I really hope that's not the case and I do think that the biggest issue here and I know people have highlighted this already the biggest issue is children safety um people before have talked about the number of kids in these neighborhoods and it is immense and I know Gary had mentioned this earlier um but in our little branch of rinia he's right there's over 30 kids just in this little area and getting more traffic through this is scary because a lot of these are little kids um we're trying to work with them to look both ways when they cross the street like my daughter um but they don't always do that and a lot of people drive through here really quickly um and increasing the number of people that do that is is just it's really concerning to the parents of this neighborhood um the the other things I wanted to kind of point out as well is I believe during the presentation they talked about getting police to help direct traffic um one of the questions I have around that is who is paying for the police is that the church or is that us taxpayers and they're just getting them to to direct traffic and if so is that taking the police away from their other duties um I hope not um the last thing too I'd like to kind of put out here as well is if if the church does go in which again I think you're hearing from a lot of us that we hope it's not but if it does go in one suggestion I would have too in in terms of being a good neighbor would be to consider putting in a park and some playfields there's a lot of room around um if there can be some Park and some playfields to act as a buffer and also as a place for some of our kids to go and play I think that would be a nice gesture and then um lastly I'll end on saying I I would be cautious of relying on data that is provided by the church in my opinion mega churches are essentially corporations and so they have their own agendas for wanting to be certain places um so if if the the traffic study if a lot of that data was provided by the church then I would also Echo that we need an independent traffic study done um with that I will uh seed the rest of my time and and thank you guys for holding this hearing very good thank you Mr Schneider all right Mike um Mike just out of curi curiosity how many people are we still have waiting to go just trying to get a gauge here currently I have two with their hands up oh okay all right um well uh let's have uh number 13 please all right aill please state your name address and you go ahead hello my name is Amy Shadow I live at 19223 Bridal path in the rinia neighborhood um my home backs up to the pond that is just to the back of outla outla a in the proposed um Eagle Bri Church development my husband and I have many of the concerns that were already brought up tonight the traffic the noise so I I won't talk about those again but just know that we we strongly agree with everyone who's presented from our neighborhood tonight and um reiterate those concerns a couple things that I'll just point out in addition to those that have maybe just briefly been touched on are um the architectural aesthetic of the building that's being proposed um if the commission you know is required to approve this building and it isn't you know relocated to another more um appropriate place in corkran um we're just really not sure that the design fits the feel of corkran or this corner that it's being put on that it it's really looks very modern and really um some of the design elements don't fit into the natural setting that we really love about this area and which is why we moved further out to be here we love the trees in the rural field which we know is is really what corkran is known for and now that we see the renderings and how close we really will be to this building um in the winter we'll be looking at a giant Orange Building um so we would just maybe ask that you would work with the church to work on that color could there be a more natural fit or natural design style that um would fit with the natural um setting that they're building on and then Al just outlaw a uh in the spirit of being neighborly would the church consider um part of their future agreement for development of that Outlaw or yeah that Outlaw um keeping the tree line that backs up to that pond and um we know they don't have a plan yet other than that proposed residential option but um that would be really appreciated as mentioned to other sides of the neighborhood if that tree line was just know that it would it would be kept um along the pond on this side the only other thing I wanted to mention and one person did bring it up is is the plan for parking lot lights I didn't see the lights on their drawing and I can imagine there would be a lot of lights in that large parking lot and when I look out right now I just see pitch dark and it's just really calm out there and I'm very concerned about how bright those lights might be how tall they might be and how that would really change the environment out here so thank you so much for your time as a commission listening and for your patience this evening and also to Kendra and Stephanie for their time and presenting that's all I have to say thank you Amy and and um you know um one of our commission members uh Meredith woo um is on an airplane tonight she couldn't be here but um uh she is our she is our architectural uh focused person and uh she would probably love to have that type of discussion with you about the design of the building and whatnot so I I kind of laugh because um I know that she would love to have that you know she'd love to have her input on that so I would appreciate that thank you um okay Michael uh 14 please yes I have Coots J go ahead and state your name address and go ahead thank you uh can you hear me yes we can yes we can perfect perfect um so my name is Jonathan CS I live at 19398 Lupine Lane um and I've called the corkran home here for a little over a year now um I was actually shocked to learn of the proposed massive 70,000 square foot structure with the sheer size of the parking stalls that was going to be built on the corner uh this building will be larger than a football field or Best Buy just for comparison purposes and the weekly physical visitors um will easily outnumber the Ravinia population by at least a factor of three so I just want to put scope out there for everybody um with my time though I'd like to really focus on the parking stalls and the associated traffic which I know we have heard a lot about already um for context 94% of churches United States support an attendee level of 500 or less this facility will have, 1500 attendees four times a weekend now based on the parking data that this church has provided for their other facilities they anticipate one car per one and a half seats so that leads to potentially needing a thousand vehicles per service that means that their planned parking stalls of 848 won't actually be able to support the demands they've articulated by their own study now either the parking study data provided to this commission is flawed or much more egregiously was knowingly proferred in bad faith negotiations to obscure already known plan changes or development uh of Outlaw a now I believe the former rather than the latter uh explanation is the most probable uh data can get jumbled sometimes but the Gap um in the valid data leads to a very real concern about the Integrity of all the data that has been presented and submitted on behalf of this conditional use permit please also note that as it's already been stated with a projected vehicle to see estimation if it is correct they will have overflow parking that overflow parking will occur on Hackamore it will move into the rinia community there is no other option so we will be inundated with vehicles in our community it's just there now if we're really talking about clearly articulating the annual vehicle impact that we're going to be seeing we're talking about at least 28,000 additional vehicle trips on our roads every year most of that obviously as we've all discussed is going to be on Hackamore so from Saturday afternoon until Sunday afternoon my family my neighbors will become hostages in our own homes because we'll be unable to leave or enter our own Community I'm not wildly speculating about any of this by the way I'm speaking to very real experiences from current residents that already live near their other locations and in some of those cases those residents are actual attendees of Eaglebrook church so they have no no vested interest in exaggerating the situation when they were speaking to me so this is firsthand accounts of church members highlighting this issue um as it's also been highlighted this will create undue burden to our community members that choose to exercise their own freedoms of religious practice and assembly by creating an actual literal roadblock that they will have to navigate through to attend their own Services um another point that I've heard recently talks about how well hey well originally houses were going to be there right so same issue well per Lenard's ghost plat that was provided approximately 70 homes were planned for that space two adult drivers per home 10 vehicle trips per day we're talking about 700 vehicle trips added to daily weekend activity the church by their own admission of their vehicle data estimates that there'll be 2,000 vehicle trips added daily to weekend activity so any real attempts that they try to drive to draw par between these two land uses clearly shows that the impacts are not equal and the church's impact is almost three times greater than the intended low density housing land use now I also know that someone else may try to speak to these data points and attempt to refute them however math does not Bend to opinion um I've simply just drawn out the meaningful information so that this commission is aware of the substantial irregularities that exists um to a more meaningful point I have a legal right to enjoy my real property without non trespasser interference noise light activity that is inherently and unavoidably dangerous to for property those are just a few that we will experience if this commission allows 4,000 vehicles to use our neighborhoods every weekend to filter in and out of their facility and creates a very real danger to the immediate public also nuisances of this scale have historically corresponded to negative home value impacts of both existing homes and yet to be built homes and I this point I really like to just say that I would I take a little bit of offense to saying that you you know people talk about being a good you know there's talk about the church being a good neighbor a good neighbor would have been disclosing the potential use a year ago when they were looking at this facility six months ago when they were looking at this space that was not done knowing that it would have an adverse impact now if you have a church who's one of their head pastures openly rebels in the excessive noise complaints that they receive and openly mock them by stating that they never resolve these issues I'm really want to ask the question of how I'll enjoy my real property with someone right next door that openly ifies harassing entire neighborhoods I would really love to have an answer to that um this is only one of my many concerns that I have um mind you I've been I was made aware of this building five days ago I have many more I know that there's limit time so I won't try to bring those up but I'd like you to ask yourself you know what has everyone else found that they've already disclosed that you know we can't say because we don't have the time to review it with you and what else has not been accurately provided to this commission what other information is flawed like the members of the Planning Commission and the city council we too want to serve our community I'd like you to please consider our collectively raised issues the sheer magnitude of the bad data that has been proferred in support of their request and the substantially legal and the substantial legal precedence that Grant you the authority to reject this request as a matter of City business and not of personal opinion now to be clear I'm asking this commission to reject the conditional use permit in its entirety this will allow the church to pursue other Parcels of land that will more appropriately suit their needs needs to that end I myself was able to find three viable options in less than 5 minutes using a widely available free real estate listing platform at the beginning of this call one of those appears to have direct access to Bass Lake Road which is a four lane uh freeway with two lanes each way and has been listed for sale since 2016 Mr chair and Jonathan just we're getting quite past time here that that's all I have to say thank you very much all right Jonathan uh thank you very much uh for your comments um um informative um uh Michael uh caller 15 yes I have uh Tony anzone please state your name address and go ahead hi can you hear me yes we can hi I'm actually Ginger and alone I'm using my husband's computer um I like a previous speaker um Mr dovenberg we actually are kind of an anomaly we live across the way in Wild Meadows I am at 340 bergamont drive and our interest in this and and the issues that we have surrounding it and not to be repetitive but to hear it from a different perspective um a Development Across The Street are going to be impacted by the visual the noise and the safety and traffic issues in particular you're looking at if you know how bergamont sits within the development against hackmore we sit kind of risen up a little bit on a null we will look down on this property in such a manner we're going to lose a noise buffer from the natural tree and foliage perspective um we've experienced that already having the whole Plymouth Corner eradicated and what that's done for the noise throughout our community Grant it's a visual and we moved here for the visual aspect that we had outside of our windows and that is a personal preference but at the same time that directly impacts my property value when I go to resale one day and I have to explain this large commercial looking Structure Parking Lot and lights that are around there um the visual and you know disturbance that we'll go along with it too are the parking street lights and those really haven't been addressed to the full degree to how are we going to be um how is that going to mitigated as far as what we have to look at how often those are going to be on a number of my neighbors will actually back up directly to your exits which means that on the evenings when cars are coming out hundreds upon hundreds they're flashing straight into their whole backside of their home their entire living space and there's been nothing really talked about the um screening of privacy and whatnot when it comes to our neighborhood on this side side um I think a bigger impact though is our traffic and there's a big safety issue around that you're talking about a right in right out only on 101 South which means only southbound traffic on 101 will have the ability to go into that anybody coming on a 101 Northbound will not be allowed to cross into that 101 entrance and will be forced into Hackamore entrance when that light backs up which it does on a regular basis we by default have entrance on 101 become a cut through and we normally have been now with the added developments that are going on around us finding that between hackmore entrance and the 101 entrance um we have a big cut through we've had the city of Madina involved actually putting a uh traffic you know speed in there because we have people that speed through when you're not in a neighborhood that's familiar to yourself and you're using it a cut through you're not really aware of how fast you're going you're just trying to get from point A to point B so we've become over the course of the last couple of years a thorough way and this is only going to be bigger when the church lets out directly onto Hackamore after a service and if you're telling me that these traffic Studies have been done on a basis of their population now but they anticipate a two to three times larger increase in population what is that going to do to our neighborhoods and unlike the surrounding neighborhoods on something that's unique to us is we don't have sidewalks in our neighborhood we have a very natural water flow issue so we do not have sidewalks we have nowhere for our people our Walkers our joggers our kids on bikes scooters playing out in the street to go to in particular in Winter scenarios when you know snow brms build up kids will be diving into it and I don't mean to be silly and saying that but that's a true issue we already deal with with traffic coming through so when you have a Sunday Saturday service Wednesday night after dark hours going down wintry roads that's a big safety issue if I get a grid lck and we have a family member with a medical situation and I can't get the proper medical you know services on time that's an issue those are the types of things that we're looking at from our neighborhood um you know as well the noise like I said removing that buffer and we also have a wild Meadow Preserve in here so the increased traffic and utilization you know there's got to be you know um Environmental Studies done to say how are you going to protect the surrounding areas and wetlands and whatnot from all this increased traffic and you know utilization so um once again I thank you for your time I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to all of us and hear our needs um it is a big factor for us and we do want to be you know good neighbors in our right too um so I would actually request that the conditional you know permits be denied as well and and happily we find some way to help help them find a location that we better suited to fit the format and plan that they have now and provide us you know the safety and and security that we need within our um neighborhoods so I thank you very much for your time all right Ginger thank you very much your your comments are appreciated um uh Mike uh number 16 yes vent please State your full name address you can go ahead okay good evening everybody hope you all can hear me uh my name is vant and uh I live in 6418 Blue Stem Circle I'm also a resident part of uh rinia and uh by work I'm a consultant so I try to keep my customer happy and I try to show them what their problems are and how can they fix it so for me I totally second all the concerns all my uh neighbors have raised I'm also one of the victim on that on top of it I just want to understand uh if you do a simple benefit analysis what is the city getting on bringing this NGO Church there are they getting a financial rise no are they going to get increased Revenue no uh is the residents of around them are happy um no um is it going to be overhead for the city to maintain and manage yes so I see lot of cons in this rather than that if we just reposition it in a right place probably you will have an increased Revenue by bringing in more homes on the state tax and you will have a proper neighborhood which does not raise an issue and concern where we keep complaining each and every time whatever is happening around our neighborhood where City can focus their energy and their time on something that's really really important and that could make the fellow citizens happy right it's it's a simple common sense I think that's what what we need to sit and think and really see what's going to be beneficial for everybody all we are talking is to have a win-win situation that's all and to understand what the problem is going to be I would say the people whoever are taking decisions if they are traveling on 101 today um you can pretty much come on Sunday morning at 9:00 a.m. and uh around 11: to 12 a.m. uh 12:00 p.m. in the afternoon you will see the Church of Lutheran how many cars that go in and come out it's just on the corner of Bas Lake Road on the Maple Grove side you can pretty much understand what is the pain that we are talking that going to be where even today if I need to go to Walmart or go to Maple Grove on Sunday morning I have to wait uh at least 30 minutes 35 minutes even today I'm not talking about the future problem I'm telling today from Basswood so I will take the other routes uh in Maple Grove to go further and what we are saying is on the same road we are going to double it in the coming years I don't see that to be a good plan and I don't think any responsible person would take a decision to bring that uh that's all I had to say and uh we have lot of things to be done within our neighborhood there is no sidewalk uh leave sidewalk there is not even a pedestian sign from rinia to go across the community because most of the kids adults bike and walk if we need to connect to other trials we literally have to be the polce stand in the middle of the road and then get make sure the cars stop because there's not even a pedestrian sign that's outside in our entrance and it's an every problem that we are facing I was thinking at least this year the city will come and put it and if it's not going to happen I think I might have to pull money and then go and install it myself because I we don't have to wait for an accident or a casualty to happen there to fix a problem right when we see there is neighborhood and there is traffics happening I think these things have to be done proactively rather than reactively so I think I would really appreciate if City can spend their time on proactively addressing the concerns rather than react actively waiting for the problems to arise and then to fix it that's all from my side all right missan uh thank you very much yep um he okay um we'll address that uh the sign uh later um Mike number 17 please chair I do not currently have any other hands raised at this moment okay well um may I suggest uh that maybe um you know we've been sitting here now for three and a quarter hours um if everybody would like to take five minutes um we won't close the public hearing but if if in five minutes there's no one with a with a call in uh then we'll pretty much get a good idea that there's no more callers is that uh good to everybody everybody want to get up and walk around for five yes Mr chair Dean bar Camp um while we've listened to 17 people and I would love to sit and listen to all of the rest of them which I know is a tremendous number other than other than traffic other than lighting and those kind of if there's people that have comments about things that haven't already been commented on I think all of us on the commission have a lot of the same concerns that have been voiced so far today um but anything different it would be nice if we could get that when we come back from our five minute recess yeah agreed and you know I again I I find it interesting though that you know everybody even though they're Maybe talking about um you know a topic that has already uh been mentioned several times some of these people have a very unique different perspective of it maybe based on you know what side of the street they're on or or whether they back up to it and whatnot so I I would say U you know if if you can differentiate it anything like that but hopefully maybe we've been through most of the calls and when we get back maybe we'll only have a couple more recess yeah we'll take a five minute recess so we'll be back here at 20 after 10 okay good e e e e e e e e Brad I don't know how many more covid uh ton you know video tons we might have to have for these meetings but it's going to be many more I'm going to buy myself a new uh a new uh chair here at my kitchen countertop because this isn't comfortable for five hour long marathons I got I got the same setup here I got a folding chair that's just killing me so I'm with you yeah the chair is at City Hall behind the behind the the the desk was much better okay um is everybody back looks like we're missing Kendra I don't see Dean well we'll give him the you know I'm here okay Dean good I'm here as well hi Kendra all right Mr shulack is back and Mr Dickman are you back I'm here okay and Mike I'm here we're ready to go okay Mike um do we have additional callers Mike you're on mute sorry about that I do have two more callers if you'd like I can go ahead and start them yes um all right so we are on uh number 17 please uh please introduce yourself and your address all right so this will be for with the last four digits 4585 go ahead with your name address so you get started hi my name is Kathy how hampy and I am a resident at 19247 Bridal paath in corkran um I I thank you all for your time tonight um I also would like to also call out my ravenia neighbors and I thank them for everything they have put into this and thank them for their compassion and wanting to be a good neighbor to Eagle Brook Church in full transparency I am a uh member of Lord of Life Church which is also a very large church but it's not as big as Eagle BG and when I built here in renia there was not a large uh commercial structure in in my neighborhood um so I I appreciate everyone's right to worship I I truly truly do and and it's part of the core of who I am as a person um but as I listen to everyone tonight I guess my question is what do we have as as corken res Ence like what's going to be like the noise ordinance ordinance as we go forward like my home would back up to the church do they do they decide to have outdoor services and what's that going to look like because I can tell you I can hear the home behind me across the pond having music playing on their pool and I I don't I don't that's okay but I just what's it going to be like if that's an every weekend kind of a thing so I appreciate your time and I thank you for your dedication to this city um but that's it thank you I I render the rest of the time okay thank you Kathy um Mike number 18 yes Mano Thomas name address again and you go ahead this is mano Thomas again uh 6552 carriageway Corrin I am not going to do a big speech right now had two quick questions uh procedurally I know there's only four of the Commissioners in today so just wanted to hear you guys if there is a tie uh in what happens to the motion we are really hoping we get today so I want to know what that means um and the second thing I quickly wanted to make a note of is the orange building is we wouldn't let Lenard do this to us in in the plats they have why would we let somebody else col orange building right there right so just leaving that and just heing my time thank you for hearing me out a thank you Mr Thomas um um we'll we'll do the best we can to try to answer your question there um number 19 Michael please yes I have Tom mck state your name and address again and you can get started past and I just wanted to quickly raise uh one other point um regarding the additional type of services um um I know someone just mentioned Outdoor Services and like that aren't included in the numbers that we have in the proposal for how many people will be attending on Wednesday service on a Saturday service on a Sunday service um other types of services like weddings or funerals um or other youth events uh doesn't seem to be included in the proposal at all and I just would like some clarification on what their plans are both now and as the church presumably grows uh as they said they would um and yeah thank you okay thank you Mr mcke Mike next yes we have I believe it was Jonathan Coots uh yes this is Jonathan Coots um my address is 19398 Lupine Lane um thank you for letting me uh take a quick second here just to speak real quickly um I just did want to mention that the informational packet that um has been provided regarding this potential structure um these packets are actually designed in a way um to provide an awful lot of flexibility um I speak speak to this from experience um in a a previous role in my career I actually supported drafting language in packets similar to this um four facility builds um the largest of which was $120 million build in California um so I'm very much kind of aware of a lot of the ins and outs uh the legal horsepower Etc everything that kind of goes into drafting these um so just in general I just like to say I I do understand all the work that goes into this and uh if there's a any way I could be of assistance with my expertise to the city of corkran uh to Eagle Brook Church to try to help find a potential solution um I'd be more than willing to do so thank you for the time thank you Mr Coots um Mike number 21 I currently do not have anyone with their hand rais right now all right well it's uh 10:29 we'll give it a minute I do have one more okay Jeremy n Go ahead with your name and address there we go I think I unmuted can you hear me yes we can yes we can fantastic thank you uh this is Jeremy Nichols I live at 6334 steeple um I just wanted to add a little bit of summary we we've heard a lot of people give a lot of you know very informed and intelligent arguments on on both sides I think um and it's not really surprising to Jonathan's point the staff report and the report from Eagle Brook are put together the way that they are that the fact is this community wants develop and grow which is a positive generally and I know coming into this the city was under the assumption that they don't really have much ability to dispute plans like this so it's not surprising that the report was put together the way that it was because generally the city wants to allow developments to proceed but what's unique here is that the kind of development is more harmful than was initial realized there a lot of smart people on this call we found a lot of issues that were perhaps easy to miss like the scope of the traffic study missing night increases under 101 like the analysis software not using the most appropriate methods determining capacity like the church's traffic estimates from the city not reflecting the 3x growth Stephanie mentioned today like the missing factor of cars parking in the neighborhood and walking through the church through the church not actually having enough parking even with the spaces that they do and in light of that it seems clear to me the city has the right to refuse on the grounds of safety and on Resident comfort as outlined in the cup ordinance and also on the size of the building and its parking relative to the commercial one zoning that it would violate which is similarly situated to this kind of development because it's so close to a neighborhood we also learned about the traffic situation because this is at the Confluence of two single Lane roads going in each Direction it's very limited in regard to its ability to discharge cars onto freeways un like all of the other Eagle work sites and because of all of these harms it seems that the council has the duty to reject because these are objective facts that violate what the cup ordinance says we need to have in place for this to be approved that's why there is a conditional review thank you all right Mr Nichols thank you again uh for your input uh Mike number 22 I do not have Mr chair inter two Mr chair the last four have been people who have been recapping kind of thoughts at this point too so I think at some point closing make sense yes Dean with with what Brad said I was going to repeat the same thing we're starting to repeat and summarize and stuff I we've got a lot of discussion going forward with that I'd like to close the public hearing make a motion to close a public hearing at this time unless someone has something different than what has already been said I I agree with you um Mike is is the L is is the screen still empty yes chair it is all right all right we have a motion to close the public hearing do I have a second seconded Dickman all right we'll do a roll call vote chair Jacob's votes yay councilman Dickman commissioner Dickman votes yay what did I say you've been promoted Jeff you gave me elected office no thank you sorry about that all right commissioner shac yay all right commissioner Baron camp and could um chairman um a huge thank you to everyone a lot of the same concerns I know that I have um and I've been through this before over in Maple Grove when I lived there so I am uh grossly aware of of all of the concerns and everything else um somebody just put on on the chat what are the next steps um if we're going to sit here and discuss it and they can sit back and listen Okay um well the the uh the public hearing is officially close Mr chair can I make a recommendation yes sir I know that normally we go we go in order alphabetically I you know given given commissioner ven Camp's experience and I know he's he's um had that experience before or I might recommend we go in reverse order alphabetically um in addition to I know staff wanting to address some of the comments and and questions that were made okay I have no problem with that at all um uh you know just as a as a as a note here uh to to kind of add to what um commissioner ven Camp said um this has been by far the most people in my I don't know I suppose maybe close to 15 years that have actually spoke at a public hearing on any topic and so um um it it's um it it's been good and and I appreciate the patience of of all those people that uh wanted to speak tonight and and hopefully uh we can um you know we can bring along a a good discussion from this point forward so um yeah uh Dean if you would like to start um with your questions and discussion and comments uh please do so M Mr chair would you like staff to try to answer some stuff first or do you want to go into comments oh yes I'm sorry um yeah I if if you would like to address some of the questions uh that brought forth um please do so because I I know that we uh we've done that in the past and and they'd probably very much appreciate and I'll note anything maybe you didn't get and I'll try to jump into okay well as noted a lot of the comments are the same and a lot of the comments uh uh ask for an unbiased traffic study the traffic study is done by the city of corkran through our Consulting engineer at wank and their professional traffic engineer and it's based on a number of data sources and it's based on the most uh available data that that we have I do not believe a different traffic study would provide different end results um but certainly that's something the commi council or commission both could could think about but it's not done by the church it's done by the city uh the city's traffic engineer um which I think is an independent uh traffic study um in that sense um there was a question um about cut through traffic and uh while not all of that data is in the report I think um it is standard for the traffic engineer to uh include that in his analysis uh whether but the uh feasibility study is a summary of the data I'm certainly not going to um talk about whether the software is the right software but that is the same uh software we use for all of our traffic studies uh in the city of corkran [Music] um I think there was some request that certainly the commission can talk about tonight related to landscaping and buffering um I'm just trying to answer the questions um I think there's a question that's really for the church about when they remove existing trees could they preserve them and replant them elsewhere um I don't know enough about the quality but um um that is a possibility um there was a comment about the C1 standards and I just want to address that the C1 standards specifically limit retail building size in that District uh but you cannot apply that to the rsf2 district um the commission could find that maybe we should rewrite our ordinance to have some of those size limits but you can't apply a standard from another section of the ordinance or another zoning District to this zoning District unfortunately um Kendra is that in reference to Jeremy Nicholls uh question about the 50,000 square foot okay and it's true that there is a limit in the C1 District but this is not the C1 district and so you can't re apply that uh to this District standard um yeah but you know Kendra but you know what though Kendra you I think maybe what what would First Strike me on that is that if we say well in a commercial District we have a maximum 50,000 square foot but in a residential we don't have a maximum and that we would allow something greater than a than a commercial building it's you know it's I think you kind of put it out there and that is maybe our code needs to be a little bit more descriptive about the size of a church or the size of any other conditional use building in a residential district and that is something that the city could look at in the future correct that's fair absolutely all right thank you I um there was a a little sidebar about Rupa that's the federal laws that protect churches you'll notice that I never said anything about that we are reviewing this according to the ordinance standards we're not reviewing it any differently than we would a commercial building um that is not a consideration for our review we are simply reviewing it against the standards in the ordinance so um I think that's something that that I uh know has been raised by residents as a concern that's not a concern for us that's not how we're reviewing this um and really Rupa doesn't say the city has to do anything it really gives churches an option um if they feel that they were discriminated against to pursue so um I've had uh lengthy conversations with the city attorney over the last month about that uh but I did not raise that issue and I don't think you should be thinking about this as a church you should be thinking about it as a conditional use in the rsf2 district [Music] um there was a there are a number of things uh requests that I think the commission will talk about not really a actual question there again the independent traffic study I I believe we have I don't know how more independent you would get um there were some questions about drainage and concerns about how drainage would be handled as part of the Hackamore road project um and that is being addressed as a separate design project but um uh the city will cities of corkrin and Madina are designing that as part of the project um and we'll be acquiring right of way or easements on other properties to accommodate the additional drainage for Hackamore Road separate from this project but um but proposed uh there are two questions I think about is there lighting proposed because it didn't show up on the renderings and that's a fair point I think the renderings we got today at noon uh and uh they they did not include lighting but lighting is proposed um the renderings I think were intended to give a a sense of of what it would look like and I think people raised questions about that that are fair um certainly the facts tonight shouldn't be based on those renderings but should be based on civil drawings that were in your packet uh um I think there were also comments about the color and U the color and the renderings is very different from the renderings that were in the packet um and we do have a condition that uh in the draft resolution that says final material samples and colors shall be provided um I think it is certainly a fair um within your discretion to say Earth Tones or something that would control that color although I don't think it's intended to be orange like those renderings showed there was a question about outdoor music it is not proposed and I would say it is not perm pered it may be something you want to ask the church about but uh the current proposal everything happens every service activity happens indoors there's nothing that would allow them to Do It Outdoors they would need a different permit for that um but good question and I think hopefully the church can talk a little bit about that and those are things that you could restrict through the cup um there was a question about will the lights stay on at night our code doesn't say lights need to be shut off but I certainly think that is something reasonable for the commission to discuss and include as a condition um that when the church is not um having services that the lights should be off that's something we see occasionally um tied to Big centers commercial centers or things like that so that certainly could be a condition um as of now there's nothing that suggests they they have a timer on them but that could be something [Music] um uh who would pay for police to direct traffic as I mentioned in my presentation one of the conditions is we do need to get a traffic and parking management plan um uh our conversations with the church have been that if police uh are needed to control traffic that would be paid for by the church it would not be a city time and we would certainly if before committing to that would need to ensure that it does not take officers away from other work and I know Brad's had that conversation uh with the police chief as well as with members of the church so I don't know the answer to whether or not that will happen but I know the answer would be it would not uh use taxpayer money to do that um you know what Kendra let me just um comment on this so that I don't have to try to think about it later on because I when I heard about that you know the the city council just went increased um the number of police officers based upon a study and and and and facts and averages about the number of police officers that are needed to cover and um and it was deemed that our community needed to add and Brad you would know this better than me I won't get into the specifics but we needed to add more police officers because we were putting too much pressure on our resources and the um the reservice that we have working for the city and so I think about this and I think okay so um on every given weekend when of course police activity is probably most needed we're going to have to designate now this I don't it doesn't concern me that the church pays for it but that's when when you looked at the way those calculations were done about our coverage you know I wonder if this is ultimately still going to cost the taxpayers money because now this might change because that's going to have to be a dedicated use it's not just occasionally it's not just for you know corkran country days it's every Saturday and every Sunday and Brad you got any comment on you know has there been any discussion about how the city is going to be impacted from this thing from again this resource that we just reallocated based upon need and the number of people sure I think chair members you're maybe thinking of a general discussion that was talking about averages of officers per capita that just showed that cork was below below that typically as a compared to the averages it didn't say that we needed to add two officers it's just their data point for discussion purposes so as far as the budgets going forward um obviously with our growth we're averaging probably you know um you know 400 500 more people a year coming forward so that's going to cause um the need for more officers of course but regarding um impacts from this the answer is going to be no um if we don't have cops they're not available um to help out so first and foremost it's filling the shifts um and then it's it's really up to voluntary of the police to take a side gig um for a couple hours and it's probably a pretty easy gig for some of them to get some nice overtime pay that we have an event pay line item that they have to pay for um so it' be up to um you know enough officers to do that um and we have part-time officers that help fill in too but it would not be at the expense of the city's budget nor police coverage okay thank you I'm sorry Kendra please continue well I think uh that's fair I think I've answered Brad unless you see something I missed the questions there were a lot of comments and suggestions but I think those were the only actual questions just I'm sorry if if I could talk just about the traffic and such um Lord of life and also um the other Church off the interstate in Maple Grove when they came to us in Maple Grove um they actually hired out a private groups to manage that traffic and direct that traffic um those those Vehicles had lights and then the officers that the churches hired did the traffic control and it was not a burden on the city of Maple Grove at that time so that that might be something that the church can look at instead of uh using our city police and overburdening them as as Brad said volunteers um those kind of things but it was also farmed out to another uh Security Agency I I can't remember who it was but it was not the city of Maple gr police yeah and that that's correct certainly that there are private companies like Asia and a you others and I'm sure Mr shac has plenty of time he'd want to spend as a reserve out there as well but didn't mean didn't mean to take work away from me Jim I'll I'll jump in just a couple quick things Kendra um just where I can maybe add value um just one just for the audience who's there um some of these things obviously have conditions that are in the resolution such as um lighting um landscape planning those types of things and just as a city there's really two options as far as moving processes forward one is having conditions where you don't have unknowns like we kind of do right now and involving the public ear early on which is what we're doing and getting as much feedback as possible the other option is having all these um kind of figured out and then involving public at the last minute so that's the really challenge that the cities have to deal with right now there are conditions to figure some of this stuff out but it's meant so we can have these conversations early that's just the really processed thing um and then with that the applicant obviously does has an opportunity to change their plans before it goes to city council two weeks from now based upon what they've heard this evening so that's where some of that can take place um regarding the renderings I just also want to agree that yeah renderings are a wonderful kind of starting point but as Kendra mentioned the plans are all that really matters matter so we don't go on renderings it's it is a one-sided story certainly and we double check everything that way um just regarding the traffic in addition to um our Engineers actually doing this um we had a parallel project with um uh the city of Madina and corkren utilizing a different firm WSB actually and their design actually Incorporated this development and future growth up through 2040 and uh really reaffirmed the design here so we actually had two independent studies um that um kind of paralleled each other kind of reaffirm reaffirm the design of the roadways so I just want to mention that um we're going to the RIS risk to life and safety um there's a public safety review um panel that's the director of Public Safety all three Fire Chiefs and the building official and they re review everything from that standpoint making sure that absolutely fire an EMS can get in whenever they need to at all times um so that's a big part of the review process that does take place um and I think that might be the ones that are not taken care of yet um there was a comment regarding the date of the hearing I guess is July 2nd but to chair Jacob's Point I've never seen this much involvement ever in anything that we've done so I think it's probably the best opportunity especially with being being remote right now it couldn't fit this many people in their council chambers so that's that's all I have I think okay so will that does that then uh in a sense conclude the answering of the at this point uh the the questions and generated again questions not addressing fully all the concerns but just the questions here okay there's one more regarding a two two vote and Kendra you shared if it were to be a two two vote it would go to the council being a two2 vote that's correct it it it fortunately rarely happens but if it were to be a split vote we would forward it to the council with the split vote and the summary of the discussion and of course I would guess that most of the council will be watching tonight or be following up on this as well but we can we can forward it to the council with a split vote should that happen Okay thank you um all right then we will move on then to um uh commission uh comments and questions and we will start with uh commissioner Von camp um thank you um we're I'm I'm seeing a lot of chat going on with comments from the people from the citizens and such I do want them to understand and correct me if I'm wrong Brad this will be a public hearing at the city council meeting also is that correct no this is the formal public hearing this is the formal public hearing so there's not another chance all right well there are public comment opportunities at the City Council meetings as well this is the um formal um hearing though however this is the the the council will see all of the comments all of the all of the information that's in our public hearing so cool um like I said I've been through this before um when I was within the the other city um one of the comments I had made at the Planning Commission um where if you are local neighbors to this land and such um the only real the only real Outlet or the fix to preventing this from going in or anything going in here would be for those Property Owners to buy that land um I know that's rude and and such but I did make that comment I don't mean to make a root but we do have an obligation to the product to the to the property owners there um which I know many of those folks did not want renia to go in I know I I listened to a number of the comments that they wanted to leave corkran Rural and those kind of things as a city we had to go through and and make uh make decisions and therefore renia is there and this this uh product is in front of us right now um as as what we're seeing right now so with the respect of all of the chats all of the comments that are coming through on the screen and such I I I respectfully ask all we have listened the council will listen and uh we will do what we feel is best for the community um again the Planning Commission is uh is volunteers and we've got Rules and Things We need to follow and such so if if I say anything to offend anybody I apologize I don't mean to do that um Kendra the concerns I have obviously is the screening um I have spent numerous times around this property and such and through the renia neighborhood um I have not stopped and talked to um neighbors and such but my number one thing is if if anything is done on this property other than um residential I would respectfully ask all of the trees bordering the west side of the property and obviously the trees on outl a to be left alone um to help with the screening um we received a in our packet we received a layout of the the parking lots and on that layout there was four parking lots and on the other one it looks like there's three parking lots there was one east of the building closely attached that's not on the colored rendering is that still part of this so are there my question is Kendra are there three or four parking lots there's four parking lots there is four I mean four parking Fields I mean the the the sou ones and then there's a a lot on the east side of the building and a lot on the west side of the building okay on the on the colored rendition um it doesn't show the parking lot to the right so all of the four parking lots total 850 parking spots is that correct uh yes I believe that's correct the colored rendering does have it I I don't I'm not sure which one you're looking at but the colored rendering that was in the PowerPoint does show four parking lots totaling 850 stalls this this piece of paper that I'm holding up in front of me there's 850 stalls with oh that's an old yes that's an old concept plan sorry okay which I'm on the right page so thank you very much um so screening is huge if if we were to approve this um obviously the movement of any parking lots or the building further away from the properties um would take a wetland change because I don't think we can move any of those Wetlands is that correct to fill correct to fill a wetland requires sequencing you have to show that you can't avoid the Wetland yeah you can't avoid it then that you've minimized the impact okay um de itions for me um which are extremely important to me I'm seeing the building being roughly 225 feet away from the borders of these properties as far as into the neighborhoods and those kind of things so I'm not terribly concerned about that if this were to go through but I am concerned about making burms those kind of things um you had menu you had uh mentioned Kendra that the the road um is is will be there in the future but it will not be there now correct correct so those two streets would be stubbed and the road would go in if Outlet a was ever developed correct the streets are stubbed now and they would connect if outla a developed and there is one sub Street if I look at two other sub streets that would there would be no what would we do with those stub streets from irenia and I'm I'm looking at Golden Rod Trail and I'm not sure what other um yep those two would be Hammerhead or what would what would happen to those two properties great question so those four dead ends coming out of renia renia 11th and renia 5th were stubbed to provide connections to these properties and remember there are five properties that are being combined as part of this and so when we looked at renia and we looked at the ghost plat for a residential project down here we wanted to make sure that no one land owner was held hostage by another so we put four stubs in um there's really no need for Golden Rod or 63rd to extend as part of this project but the city engineered does have a comment in there that asks the uh applicant to work with lenar in the city to try to um make those temporary turnarounds in those locations more permanent in nature okay um so that that is something in there but there isn't a plan to connect either Golden Rod or amethyst into this project okay um my my number one concern um is is safety and such I don't know if reducing the size of the church to the 40 or 50,000 square feet is something that's going to help everybody or ease everybody's mind as far as the traffic concerns during the operations of the church I don't think we can come up with uh with true times of operations of this church as I said my experience with Lord of life um that it it it truly impacted our neighborhood which at that time our neighborhood was five to 10 acre Parcels across from this property there was no um how can I say this no developments around Lord of life back in the late um 1997 98 when it was started um Lord of life was put in um much to um the displeasure of all of us that owned five to S acre Parcels across the street but it was it still met um the city requirements the code and everything else um I am truly concerned with our traffic on 101 not because of this property but because of renia and the properties that are in Maple Grove and such I I truly am concerned and and wish 101 would be a uh a four-lane road uh a par Parkway a four-lane Parkway or something I wish we could come up with Hackamore and get that changed faster but we've got a lot of people that have moved out to these areas that are expecting these things to stay the same and no development happening um we've done our responsible Thing by coming up with our plan for 2040 um it's there there are a lot of things that can change on any of these properties and we've got all of the eyes dotted and te's crossed of what can happen um I am truly concerned of traffic um but I don't have a solution so in the interested time I will uh end my comments um again I can't thank the neighborhood enough actually I think we heard from four different neighborhoods and all of them being four very different styles um you've been heard it it's Crystal Clear to us but again we we are the ones that are going to make the recommendation of the council and the council is making the final decision on that so I'll be quiet uh Mr chair and thank you for the time very much all right thank you commissioner ven Camp um all right uh Mr schac or Mr Dickman you like to care to step up next I'll do refer to uh uh commissioner Dickman yeah so just a couple of questions um Brad and Kendra um does the do the street lights in ravenia are they on a timer they are not or are they they on all night I don't I believe they are not on a timer Brad there's street lights for night time they're on on night okay so kind of like a photo sell they're on all night um question for you Brad I know as the city has grown we've we've looked at a lot of different options including changing this year for the upcoming election would this uh site be a potential that the city would look at for a polling location given the amount of growth and and density in southeast part of corkran it be a fut decision right now we have uh sites at City Hall Hope Community Church and St Thomas Church so we have sufficient precincts for the foreseeable future I would say and is it within code or ordinance I know other large um not as large as this one but other large churches say in Maple Grove have worked either with um in Plymouth have either worked with Plymouth Metro Link or with uh the city of Maple Grove for transportation as like a Park and Ride is that an option within the corkren city code or would that be something that would need to be addressed for folks that are kind of bedroom commuting that's something we really don't address um really with our comprehensive plan at this point um there is the Maple Grove Transit Center um just east of County Road 30 there of course and U we don't have any plans for any kind of parking right facilities at this point it's something we begin begun conversations um we're surrounded by opt outs that aren't really met Council as far as Metro Transit Plymouth has Plymouth Metro Link Maple Grove has Maple Grove Transit although they're staffed by Metro Transit bus drivers so it's a little odd um so it's just a future conversation we're just dabbling with okay um another question did we engage any um and I know this had come up past and I was not in the commission at this time but when we went through the uh solar garden phase of and we we did have um I guess an independent realer look at impact of uh for the Greenfield residents did we do anything with that related to this and what what the impact would be from um a real estate perspective on on the on the neighbors no and Kendry you might be best at addressing that question we did not uh we don't typically do that that um on projects uh the solar garden uh we did uh which showed there was no impact um I did look uh with the American Planning Association and a few other sources to try to find uh any studies the only study I actually found that was a beded study was an older study from 1996 saying that uh property values actually increase next to mega churches but I don't really think the study was valuable so I think it would be challenging to do a market study with an independent um uh person I don't know that there's a lot of data but we did not and we don't typically got it um and then just to follow up with the with the lighting um piece I know in other municipalities whether it's on timer there's other things that can be done around low vault low low wattage or lumens or or low LED lighting is that is that part of the proposal or is that as long as it's within code for for a parking lot this size yeah we are looking at it for the code which has a a maximum foot candle so we don't have spill over light and it has a a 90% cut off so you don't have glare from the fixture itself um certainly I think that's something um that we could look at in terms of uh the type of uh light itself could be part of the discussion and I would just add as far as we can work with the applicant but also Public Safety regarding limited nighttime lighting from a public safety standpoint it's actually nice to have some lighting around but whether there's a possibility to have limited nighttime lighting that's something we could work out with the applicant between now and the council meeting sure my my other question especially as we're talking conditional use I know we've talked a lot about Wednesdays Saturdays Sundays from a a service and Confirmation standpoint I guess my question is is it and maybe this is more to the applicant and I don't know the exact answer but are we also talking about things like Bible study Cubs Scouts Boy Scouts Girl Scouts aana all these other type of community type events that are going to be driving traffic more than two and a half days a week you know with a building that size I know a lot of churches have other types of events or Gatherings that are part of the the community so wanted to get a sense for that my second question for the applicant is obviously we're what was mentioned is that we're currently in in wisett a high school right now which I would dub a community college it's bigger than St Olaf from an enrollment standpoint just as we're talking numbers um but what type of traffic in Ingress egress are they doing are they Contracting with the city of Plymouth I know we've mentioned volunteers what are there other things where they're um having events more than more than weekend for service if it's okay that might be a good question for the applicant Mr chair yeah if she is still uh on um she' like to answer that that'd be great I'm on um I can't start my video which is totally fine um uh if you can here we go yeah those are great questions so Stephanie okay good I didn't know if I had to repeat it or not so go ahead well and I think I I think I understand and if you need to Reas please feel free to um you know our our buildings generally aren't conducive to events outside of what we do on the weekend and then the Wednesday nights so we don't hold Bible studies we don't have a school um we don't have the BSF or the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts those are those are things that we don't do and so we are genu generally very quiet throughout the week and then the weekends um you know there's usually a concentrated three times in a weekend that we will have traffic moving in and out of our site you said three times and then can you talk just a little bit about the size of the the size of Yetta um and and what you guys are seeing I know it's a it's a I think you call it a uh a mobile site what that looks like for for um participants and then what the how that traffic is handled are you asking the attendance like the average attendance on the weekend right now yes at wisett correct yes okay um current Curr right now we have services at 9 and 11 on Sundays well I shouldn't say currently we're not Gathering right now but typically uh outside of covid uh we have services at 9 and 11 and on average with kids included which which I said is about 30% of our attenders we average about a thousand attenders between the two Services okay and if if we do a two to 3x as you mentioned for the first year of a permanent site that that could be 3,000 plus there's more services offered than just there are more services that are offered yes and that is part of the reason why it does increase okay um I think the last thing I'll nothing more from from me on that stanie thanks I think just my last comment just because I know that that Public Safety and traffic has been brought up my my frame of reference having lived out in the area for a while um and grown up in Greenfield is that the city of Madina plus the the henen county uh it took them 10 years to from 2008 until the completion in 2018 to fix the interchange at6 and Highway 55 right where the KC station in McDonald's is um I I understand where folks are coming from with 101 and the The Limited Ingress egress of the neighborhoods with continue to expand going in and out um I would also point out um from the city of Maple Grove stpoint when they're putting developments in or deciding to put a high ve in there's very little consultation with the city of corkran either um that doesn't mean that that's how we think about things from a commission staff or Council um but cities kind of make up their own decisions when it comes to what's what's within the city limits I think it's it's actually Noble that we're we're trying to meet with mad and work out what the traffic concerns should be on with hackmore but my concerns lie more with um henan County and 101 just not being adequate today and uh the site of this plus Tara plus additional development all along Hackamore and what that will lead to for uh for traffic even on a weekend during the morning um turning on to 101 um my last comment Brad just a procedural thing is is um probably just need to figure out what we should do with the chat function I think it's probably um something we could look at especially during presentations but there's a reason we have a public comment period um we do get all the emails we do get all the letters um so take that all into consideration so we'll see if there's something we can do for the next uh meeting if if we aren't meeting in person which I hope we are I'll yield to commissioner sh thanks and just one one thing regarding the henan county in 101 we actually sent a letter today a joint letter cities of Madina and corkran requesting County to participate in specifically intersection improvements at 101 and Hackamore and at 116 but also throughout the corridor um you know we as a city we make sure we have adequate rideway that we take from applicants such as renia Eaglebrook whomever But ultimately it's the county to improve their transportation system um and we Advocate as best we can but um Madina and us are working really hard to encourage that you know Brad the scariest thing about your comment is kind of what we've experien with the 10 and 50 realignment when the county just flat out told us they weren't interested in any of those projects right now and so when we when and maybe I'm off base on this but when we uh uh when when we have to ask the county to step in and to make these things right and to do them right um how much Faith do we do we have that the county has uh the residents and and Eagle uh Brook and everybody else's interest in mind when they've already shown us that you know what they they're just not they're not going to always be there when we need them well I think part of it chair memb is a perception issue um and there's a liit limited pot of money you know for Cork and we control our own destiny and I a couple of comments have certainly been made about how long it's been taking to get improvements on haar Hackamore that's really been intentional um because the additional development is causing the issues so we've been waiting for additional development to pay its way to not raise our taxes um to have development pay for this so that's been the reason it's taken so long specifically um you know regarding the county in corkran County Road 101 feels really really busy um if you Drive throughout henen County it's not that busy of a road um so when they do their traffic counts and everything else um I think they just overlaid um you know the road again too so it feels really really busy for us but they put this in the the data sheets and where the money goes the money goes um I know they're cutting back things um the gas tax is significant and lots of less people are driving right now so um they're even cutting back on some of the funding sources um but who knows if extra bonding money when he comes in you know contact uh your county commissioner um and Advocate as Mr chair fair enough yes sir just quick kind of timeline when I had moved into Maple Grove in 1987 um Connie Road Tanner Bass Lake Road was supposed to be a four-lane road out to 101 in 1990 it didn't happen until 1998 so just FYI I and while while our our state and uh County um folks have reasons they don't do those things it takes a tremendous amount of time again that's why I'm I'm so concerned about this safety site I'm sorry but I had to jump in on that timeline on roads which is very frustrating very good input thank you very much um okay Mr schulak I'm up um the thought that keeps coming to my mind is the number 1,000 one 1,000 of our citizens of our residents have spoken out against this project 1,000 now if our if our population has grown from 6 6,100 10 years ago to maybe 7,000 now not sure we're talking about 15% of the residents voting against this with their with their petition if we were to expand that petition out to the rest of corkran and say well is this in any way going to affect you um I would guess that that number would be HED uh these are 1,000 of our of our resident of our neighbors many of them are new neighbors um in that area and they're speaking from from their hearts uh some of them have not even been there a year or two yet 1,000 people are asking us not to do this personally I have concerns about traffic I have concerns about trees and screening uh of encroaching on the already there uh residents and their properties whether that encroachment is noise or light or snowplows or whatever and I have to agree too that uh safety is is a great concern for a project like this in my mind this is not a good fit for that site um in the packet that we received we we received our our instructions for this and if uh if the site plan if they meet the standards for the site plan the city must approve the site plan if they meet the conditions uh for the con the cup we must approve the cup if we if the if the applicant has met the preliminary plat uh ordinances uh we must approve that plat there's no there's no leeway in there for us to have a difference of opinion and then under the the Cup instructions on page seven um there are seven uh different standards that they have to meet and presumably obviously however you want to describe it they have met those and so uh we are we are to we have no recourse we are to vote Yes uh because they have met those standards I I lived through the 60s okay uh or or my parents my parents told me about it but one of the things was question authority and and that's what I'm doing now I'm I'm questioning the safety Factor I'm I'm testing I'm questioning the the the compliance on trees and screening um but most of all I feel that uh I represent not only those 1,000 people who took the time to petition but I represent all the citizens uh that are here in corkran and I feel that it it would be a Betrayal on my part if I were to vote Yes for this just because I'm told to and I'll yield uh that's it for my comment okay thank you um I guess it's uh it's it's uh my turn next um I just want to get a couple clarifications to make sure that I have no misunderstandings so when the church talks about uh their two services on Saturday and their two services on Sunday and they're talking about 1500 people I'm going to take it to the max I I don't you know whether or not you're you you youve got a three-year window to fill that up or not I don't care so are they saying then that there's 3,000 people on Saturday and 3,000 people on Sunday and then approximately 1,700 cars Saturday and 1700 cars on Sunday is that the way I'm I'm reading why they're building it for this size with those amenities maybe maybe our maybe Stephanie can answer that question can try yes um I'd be happy to I I would say that the 1500 seat Auditorium is built yes to for for foreseeable growth but we do not have 1500 or 3,000 people on a Saturday or a Sunday that come on our average weekend I would say okay and so Stephanie when people look and they have concerns about this parking lot being 2.3 times the normal size now now you're telling us that well we're not going to have 3,000 people a day and we're not going to have 17 cars so does the church have any latitude to downsize either the church and or the parking lot I don't know if I can actually answer that question I mean I could say yes or I could say no I mean I think a lot of the numbers that we have are based on the our own studies that we've done um but we are absolutely willing to work with the city we're we're we're hearing the comments tonight I will say that what I stated before when I shared um you know I think I did share that we don't fill up those parking spots every service that we have but when we do it's really important that we have them and there are not people that are parking on the streets or in surrounding neighborhoods on a average given service if at all because we do have the amount of parking spots that will cover when we do have that amount of people coming as I said before okay but let's just assume your you're going to have 100% occupancy at both the number of people sitting in the church and as close as you can to the parking so again on a Saturday we're talking 3,000 people and about 1,700 cars if we are at capacity okay okay because when you talk then when you said well you know we're in we're in y Zetta and we find based on your own studies that you know a year afterwards we're finding that we've increased our our population by two to three times um I think that was the way you you framed it so we could anticipate then that the church is going to have you know it's going to have a desirability that reaching your 3,000 people a day is probably a reality and and therefore close to 1,700 cars a day so if I could if I could just say I I don't think it is a reality partly because 30% even at this point are children who don't drive cars and so these are families also that are coming together I don't maybe I confused you well no but I mean if they don't drive cars how do they get there well if the children are coming with their parents or the young families are coming and it's are you talking about just Auditorium attendance or kids attendance as well it sounds like you're just talking about Auditorium attendance well are you telling me that that in in addition to the the 1700 people in the church you might have or 1500 people in the church you might have um what 300 kids in the in the classrooms so we're we're really talking about maybe closer to 1,00 people the service if we're at full capacity okay and and and and if the parents are driving the kids to the classes they're still going to park in the parking lot right correct okay now under the math when you say one and a half cars but we're only then talking 1500 people in the auditorium if you're saying one and a half people per cars that would require 1,000 spaces but in that equation you haven't factored in the student population either so um will that require more cars or not I mean your math doesn't quite quite work out you're saying 850 but but under your own under your own guides you you'd need a thousand spaces how do you how do you account for that right well you know when we look at the numbers and I will say that 1.5 is the number that I gave to Kendra and as I looked back at our study it actually I looked at our Excel spreadsheet wrong as I was listening to everybody else and it's actually 1.63 um but I do know that somebody who has worked in this and has talked through this and has done these studies for longer could probably speak to this if you would like her to jump on no I I just it I just trying to understand a little bit more now in your services would it be fair to say then that that people who attend here in the West Metro Campus you don't actually perform the services in there right um would you because they're all being done in Lineo Lakes is there situations where that would not be the case would would you say for instance bring that because I've looked at your website and it looks like you have certain services at almost all your facilities and so my question is if it's if it's Mobile in in the sense that you know we're going to hold the live version of the service in the West Metro Campus would that have the potential to actually bring in more cars and people than what the facility is rated for uh we don't have a live pastor preaching from any other site other than Lio loo is our broadcast site and is our only broadcast site so that that will not be a live speaker at our at our West Metro Campus or any of the other campuses okay so when I look at the other pictures of your other facilities and I see you you have some sort of music band but they're playing but they're playing at those facilities what what is that what help me understand what that is sure so each each of our campuses each of our locations do they do have their own live Services when it comes to the band the band is live at each of our services but liol Lakes is our broadcast uh facility and so we have a live speaker at lonol Lakes only and it's broadcast simcast I would say out to all the rest of our all the rest of our campuses okay all right great thank you you're welcome um um Kendra um this this streak connection hypothetically saying um if the church were decide not to create an outlaw or even if they created The Outlaw but they let's just say there there were some comments that maybe they make some playground or something out of it if the church were to decide to just leave that that corner um untouched would that would that connection have to be made uh between Larkspur and um and lupine no the the the report notes that that street connection the right of way needs to be there because of the the infrastructure in the street there will be utility sewer and water but that street doesn't need to be built unless and until Outlaw a develops okay but assuming that let's assume they put it in a nature conservancy and it they'll never build on it well if they never built on it and no one ever needed to get there that's exactly what I'm asking could could that road be basically then eliminated you wouldn't have to put it through and you wouldn't have uh Outlaw a for future residential development sure if they wanted to do that okay I just wanted to Mr would add that could potentially be a city decision however in the future because you might want that connection instead of those kind of hammerheads and culde sacks that don't really work really well so the city could choose to do something in the future um at some Star Trek year so I just would want to not say never to anything that's a future decision at some point okay all right very good um Mr chair yes sir just again the the qu I brought that up that is a right way sewer and water is going to go there so that as a city right of way whether uh a road would be built there or or not so thank you okay um you know um Mr Nicholls um it sounds like he he did uh kind of some of the same research I did here on other um Eagle Brook sites and I was noticing a lot of the same things he was um some of them are located in heavy commercial uh some of them have residential but they might be across a major Street uh some of them have nothing at all they're line of lakes I countered the houses I don't even think there's 50 houses within a a a mile you know within a circular mile of that place um and even though it's still on a two-lane road um they they really don't there's other facilities um I counted I think it was the one in inoka you know their parking lot it had five entrances and exits to it and a lot of the roads that that are surrounding these things have at least three lanes and that would be a through lane and then a dedicated right and a dedicated left turn Lan um I tried as best I could Kendra to to make a sense of the proposed realignment or or reconstruction of Hackamore Road in in 101 and quite honestly I I mean even with my even with my my viewer uh I couldn't make out lanes or anything on it so um it would seem to me that if there're if they're really truly going to be able to handle this traffic um Hackamore Road's going to have to be a big road um and and I don't know what you know what what I know it's only 30% design but is is is um is any of that design really going to be capable of handling that amount of traffic that only have one purpose and that's to go in and out within you know a quarter mile of 101 um and will that have to be redone at some point in the future and I know that we don't need to get into all the minutia of that but that is one of my concerns um I did also want to say um there was um excuse me here I'm trying to located there was the uh study here by henpen County their letter um the dated June 18th and down on the on the first page of that and this is from Carla sty and on the third paragraph she says to ensure traffic impacts the County Road 101 will be limited to weekend hours the access will need to incorporate a barricade uh for example a chain a gate Etc to be opened only during weekend services now I saw that and I I just like okay what's the reality of of that I mean um this facility sounds like it's certainly going to be open more you know You' they got the Wednesday service I assume or or church or uh uh schooling activities um and so if you know if that's not going to be opened on the weekend of course any other traffic than is going to have to be diluted uh divided right to Hackamore again what what do you make of that statement from the county and and how realistic is that going to work say it's very realistic that was the approval that actually had to fight for to get that extra access the county um actually really demanded no access on the County Road 101 whatsoever um so at the staff level we fought to get an access to alleviate some of the pressure on hackam road which they we has to only on the weekends which is really only the time that's needed um so it's a very real requirement that Eagle Brook has to abide by um and they intend to do so but that was a the company wanted zero access on 101 at all okay but now sounds like they're supportive of it only because they're going to lock the gate Monday through Monday through Friday correct okay um does that need to be in the resolution at all or is that just covered through uh under one of the statements that they have to they have to abide by the County's recommendations and things like that I mean I didn't see it in the report and if I didn't pick it up here I never would have known about it so I I just thought that that was an important traffic consideration um but it you know the only place you really see it is in this letter and I I just didn't quite understand it myself but okay Kendra is that incorporated one of the conditions it is the engineers memo correct you must comply with the city Engineers memo and the county Engineers memo uh which is in the pr preliminary plaque conditions three and four okay um to to talk about the lighting then real quick Kendra is is under are uh conditional use in a residential district for for churches or any of the other conditional uses is there a requirement to the height of those lights I mean a commercial pole would be what 20 feet tall 25 30 feet 30 ft is the maximum height it it's a the height cannot exceed 30 feet or or the roof line of the principal building whichever is less okay so if they have 30 foot light poles and is there requirements about how many there have to be how far apart they have to be how much illumination I it sounded me like in an earlier discussion here and I think it was from Dean or maybe from commissioner uh Dickman that um there's a possibility that they could turn these off just to a minimum so we have maximum standards that they can't exceed we don't have a minimum uh lighting that they have to provide on the site uh we want lighting for Public Safety but we don't have minimum light standards uh you do occasionally see that in light ordinances we simply say you can't exceed one foot candle uh at the property line and that you can't uh have glare on other properties um but we don't specify the uh a bulb type or things like that okay so um for a parking lot this size is it is it is it reasonably possible not to have light glare when you're trying to illuminate 10 acres yes doesn't mean light but glare again is is making sure that the fixture has a cut off so it doesn't have a a a bulb dropping down that's going to blow out it's stuck up in the fixture so uh direct like it's more like a box light or something that only allows the light to go down correct yeah okay um I I just wanted to uh clarify a couple of things on the um Landscaping uh plan uh the woods um when I talk to the residents out there um especially on the west side you know they were all um concerned about uh tree loss and then with that tree loss would come uh their increased exposure uh to the site so um I assume um for instance um when you look at Lupine now they've got shaded in where they're going to remove trees um and maybe this is earlier than than what it should be but you know when you look at their that site plan that you gave us today they claimed that they're going to keep a lot of the trees down in the Southeast corner but yet here on this plan and this would be I don't know Kinder this one here and I I kind of shaded in all the tree removal but I don't see this being representative of what that plan says um and then up in the northeast corner there's it's it's there's a lot of tree removal um right there in the center now I I assume that that's going to be parking lot but my question is um when when when we're talking about the perimeter uh trees uh specifically to the West Side um there's a lot of tree cover that is on the ravenia or the homeowner side of the fence or the property line um is there is there any assurances that that that that is not going to be damaged or removed through devel Vel mment of this um this site because I think I remember hearing people wanted some kind of guarantees uh I know that they've asked to keep the trees up in the uh up in the out lot a and being that um it doesn't look like it's shaded up there I would assume all those trees are going to be at this point in time going to be saved is that correct am I reading this right I believe okay yeah I believe you're reading it correctly that that is their tree preservation plan um uh the large area of of trees on the north side of Golden Rod was part of a deal that that lenar and hogland made that is a buildable lot so certainly that that lot there there likely would be tree removal if that lot were developed but uh they cannot go onto other people's property and remove trees MH okay right all right well um I you know there there's a couple of things um that I guess um when I look at this if if if I'm going to find things that uh I would uh recommend to the city council that be done I I have a few some of these have been um echoed by uh the residents and whatnot one of them though is a little bit different that is the snow storage um you know if if if they're going to do the proper screening for headlights uh you know around the parking uh areas and those have to be three feet um there's a lot of sto you know snow storage and I think you you commented on that that there's some challenges um I don't think there's probably any problem but have you ever seen where the recommendation uh or the requirement would be complete snow removal uh in other words in other you know listen we all see what Target looks like you know during the winter it it's it's an ugly ugly mess and it picks up all the garbage and everything else but what if what if the the requirement is well since you have such limited maybe areas to put that snow um periodically at a point when it makes sense you you got to just come in with some dump trucks and you got to remove it offsite and dispose of it elsewhere um I can't I I wouldn't say that that doesn't happen I mean obviously in urban areas that happens all the time I can't think of a a 27 Acre Site where that happened but uh I do think it's important that we evaluate the snow storage in a way that protects the landscaping and so I think the snow storage plan has drafted is probably not the snow storage plan that that needs to be um done okay uh I would also agree uh with many of the folks that have commented that the um the screening uh around those parking lots um and uh and the and the neighbors within ravenia uh could definitely be stepped up a little bit um um the the issue of music now I think it was said to us that they're not going to have any music um but it sounds like there's music in the hall and hopefully that it keeps within the hall but I wonder if some of the complaints that maybe or concerns have been uh put out there is because the music is emanating from the hall through the building and since the building is you know um within this uh context close to uh some of the residential areas I wonder if that's that's going to be a problem but um I know that that's a hard thing to that's a hard thing to to put in there um I think right now um you know that that's all I have um why why don't we go through the uh commission members one more time is there anybody that has any other questions or comments okay um does does anybody does anybody have any changes that they want to recommend for any of the resolutions okay all right um well there there's two specific resolutions in front of us uh one is for the site plan and conditional use permit the other is for um the preliminary plat um uh if if you guys would like um I think we should do the site plan and conditional use permit first and um uh being that nobody has any specific uh things that they want to add to it um I suppose we could go you know you guys want to discuss this openly amongst us um about how we're going to vote and why we're going to vote that way or should we just take a vote Mr chair yes I don't know if this is point of order or anything like that um would it be appropriate for us to ask ask the applicant and I'm talking Stephanie for her to take all of the information she's heard this evening and and make changes those kind of things and bring it back to us or is that out of line if you know what I'm saying uh you know Dean I don't uh I don't I don't think it's out of line um but she you know I think maybe um she's not going to have a lot of the answers she's heard and if she's taken good notes and whatnot and I'm sure with continuing discussions between staff uh the community at large and whatnot that the all these comments and concerns will get to them um and and they'll have to address it before the the next city uh council meeting so I think in the interest of time right now it's 10 minutes to 12 so I I think you know um I'm ready to you know go ahead and and and take a vote and um I'm interested to see where where we all are on this stuff so well I I agree and I understand what um commissioner suak said as far as um it's it's written in here that we if they meet all of the stuff we have to approve the thing that sticks in my crawl is is the safety um I'm I'm not one to do the build it and they will come kind of deal um and I'm I'm I'm way off it's getting late but uh I don't want to I don't want to jam this intersection full of uh Angry drivers and such and then the county and the state will come through through and finally build the road like they did um back when I was talking about Bass Lake Road and stuff I just I this the safety thing sticks in my crawl and it's it's hard for me to vote yay on this okay um I'm I'm going to be a little bit more specific um so for the the conditional use permit again there's the conditions that have to be met uh um and for any number of reasons from my own uh personal thoughts and uh from what I've seen out there and from what I've heard from the community um I think that that the conditional use permit fails on item 3B and item 3C uh specifically and with again um when we talk about Comfort um use and enjoyment of our property um and then the public health safety I think there's a lot of things that tell me and it's not because it's a church or this and that but I think this particular building and and and um and it's and its its use and its capacity and whatnot is not the right development for this lot at this time at this spot without really further understanding understanding more about how this road stuff is going to be done how has this impact I mean that you know you got people across the street um I forget her name I think you know yeah she's at a higher level you know they're going to be impacted um differently and um so I'm uh I I think that those are the two basis points that I would suggest to the city council about why this conditional use permit should be denied now with that being said we have the resolution though for the plat and and in looking at that uh the preliminary plat it doesn't require any of these and so I am more likely to vote that the preliminary plat should be um approved because it doesn't have have any requirements that they meet as far as um size and and things like that um and and maybe maybe Kendrick can help me out with my thinking here uh if whether or not that's right but that is at least the way right now uh I'm going to vote as to what we recommend to the city council and so any other comments by any other Commissioners uh or staff professionals um I'd certainly be interested in hearing it Mr chair you certainly could uh make a motion and vote to recommend approval of the preliminary plat which again it absolutely meets the standards in the ordinance so your duty as a commissioner would be to review that and recommend approval of that um if you find that the standards are not met for the cup and you make a motion for denial you need to provide specific standard ards uh uh and a basis for that denial it can't simply be I just it's not the right site so you need to provide some findings to forward to the council but you could make two different motions as you suggest that would be absolutely appropriate okay well you know Kendra um you know it it I think it's it's you know when when the staff report basically mimics the requirements that they meet without providing very specific reasons why I mean we we can't all really sit here in judgment and say that it's not going to uh alter the use or enjoyment of anybody's property you can't quantify that and if I'm going to say I'm going to say and recommend that we do this because I I think that there is going to be but how do I quantify that how do I get very specific and tell the and tell the city council that well I just don't think that they're going to that it's going to be injurious to their use and enjoyment of the property and then give specifics about it I think Mr chair if I could what I think your motion needs to be is whatever your rationale that you think it's a negative impact because of the view because of whatever you think it is that's what you should say I don't think that it will be injurious because they'll see the building from their home whatever you're finding that's all you have to say but you need to provide findings of fact that suggests it will be inous to them because boom okay but that would only have to be stated in here if we all agree on it as a commission right right but someone needs to make a motion and that certainly could be your motion to recommend denial based on these findings okay commission members anybody want to can go next okay Mr di you're up so yeah so I would I would say conditional use permit versus PUD which is what we've been discussing on a lot of previous things as a commission is is different for me specifically on the conditional use permit side a c and e are not met so specifically with a um I don't feel that this building and I'm going to use this building not church this building does not fit the size of the neighborhood um I think there was a good point made around 50,000 square feet is what we have for an industrial piece I just don't see how something this size fits in with the neighborhood um so whether that's a church or not if if this was brought up for something this size and a rsf2 I I don't feel like that fits under C which is hinders enjoyments uh of adjacent properties even with the buffer I have noise concerns um not just from the services themselves but clearly you're going to have significant construction noises site change house destruction all of these things where we still have lots that are available over the course of two plus years at least 18 months that I I think definitely hinders enjoyment of being out of my backyard and in addition to that I think having a site where there's 800 cars coming in and out with headlights and people looking into my house that that hinders enjoyment I felt the same way about the solar garden and that's a separate issue but that's definitely an adjacency piece and we can control we can control in corkran for e um I I'm firmly of the belief that we do not have adequate services today from a road standpoint on Hackamore and on 101 to help the developments that we have plus what we have going forward with Tara plus the open lot that we have on we want to get into this position where we said well we proved all this and now we don't have adequate roads and services we already had to work with hennipin County for something that they didn't want which is to have another Ingress egress off of County Road 101 and from a corkran standpoint I think we're adding the the problem with this specific conditional use versus living within our our means and being thoughtful about what this future development looks like specifically for hackmore and creating significant danger I know it's been brought up too about the slope and grade of Hackamore too as you go up from um east to west and travel between 101 and 116 about how blind that is with the 40 mph speed limit and and going up and I have concerns about that where the entrance to rinia is I would like to work with the applicant on a potential another location I'm I'm not opposed to churches coming into corkran I think it's a great thing that can bring people together as a community shoehorning this into this location does not feel appropriate and I and I would say that whether that's a church or not um I also think there's a gap that we need to work within code that we're consistent with what we say for rsf2 and C1 standards I think Kendra mentioned that that that's something we need to work on as a commission and Council and then lastly I would just say I'm glad to see all the engagement from the community and that there's four seats open this fall so I hope to see this type of Engagement and I am glad that we didn't have 85 people that were talking about sign displays on a gas station because if that's what we were all here for until midnight that would have been quite something so AC and E do not meet my interpretation AC and E okay okay um commissioner Vamp any any thoughts on on this all commission Dickman has uh summarized a lot of this for me thank you okay and commissioner schulak um just want to review that when the vote comes for approving the preliminary plat does that mean that we're still okay for them to to have access to that property or to build on that property good question Kendra what what what does approving the preliminary plat uh what does that set into motion for Eagle Brook really nothing but but it does meet the standards so you need to approve it but if they don't have a site plan approval I don't think they're going to subdivide the property okay Mr chair members just from a factual standpoint um just so you all know I guess from Eaglebrook standpoint they've been looking at sites for well over a year and trying to find some a willing seller um for maybe 18 months so they've probably shopped around six or seven sites um over the past year and a half or so um regarding specifically e um the development would build a road that would support this need in the area there's two feasibility studies that have said that can be supported in infrastructure would be met to do that so um from my standpoint I just need to highlight that um what there's a I don't know if there's a third feasibility study or anything but the data show um that the design that would be required for Eagle Brook to assist and pay for and build prior to opening day one could serve this area so I think from a factual standpoint I need to point that out to the commission okay commissioner Dickman um would you like to would you maybe like to restate your objection to e or or why you think this fails um I I think it talks about adjacent public streets and while we've worked with hennipen County to have a right turn only right turn only exiting um I do not feel that uh that will alleviate the stress onto hackmore um and and in addition to that my concern is is less around whether not it meets the standards for what it says on paper my concern is around we know that there's other developments not in Quran that are happening on 101 and if we follow the same timelines to seeing what county road improvements look like out here in the West Metro as we've mentioned as Brad mentioned it's not a busy priority Street um priority is going to be given to things like Vicksburg Fernbrook um roads like that I don't feel confident that 101's demand all the way up to the roon interchange is is going to be adequate down to 55 from where we're at with all the development so it's less about how I feel about Hackamore and more how how about I feel about the adjacent public Street which is County Road 101 which is a county responsibility not a city responsibility okay so just to be clear so you disagree with the county and Engineers position yes that's what we'd be saying okay that's that's what I am saying and I'd be happy to point to 11 16 and 55 from a timeline standpoint Sor I'm just writing here all right so let me just yes sir yes sir if I can ask Brad a question Brad you You' stated that this church has been looking at property within within corkran what are the reasons they haven't been able to find properties in a less occupied place is that what I want to say I would defer to the applicant uh they've just came to City Hall whenever they had a site that they wanted to even approach just to understand where utilities are what the challenges are they I have not had any discussions with negotiations with land owners whatsoever so you want to ask Stephanie that you sure can I I don't need to I I think it answer my I can answer the question myself Eastern third of the the city is going to be um residential and such and it's uh that makes sense they they have uh sewer water right there and such so thank you very much okay um all right so I want to just kind of get this uh keep this moving so if we're going to say um we think that this uh fails uh on requirement or C or um uh standard a we're going to say that the building is too large for the area doesn't fit the neighborhood okay right too large for neighborhood okay um now I put out there b um uh in basically to say that I don't think that there's any empirical data to suggest that it wouldn't um impact public health safety morals and comfort in the community um you guys comfortable with that I I don't know if that's going to meet mustard for uh the the city council or for staff but um anybody got any sure should we leave it out anybody got any thoughts I I'd leave that out okay but but what I'm saying there is we've talked about Public Safety you talked about it Dean yeah if we think if we think that the roads are going to Pro provide you know a a safety hazard that's true to the public you have to include it no I I wasn't reading the whole thing so you I agree never mind okay so so I think when we talk about Public Safety we're really talking about traffic and we're talking about you know whether it's on on on at the intersection Hackamore 101 and or going through uh surrounding uh residential communities it'll it's everywhere there there there's the potential that it'll have a negative impact is that what we're saying in the case of in the case of this kind of facility yes if if uh if they were to come or another developer were to come with this corner platted with houses and such I'm assuming somewhere between 70 and 90 units could go in there which would add 700 to 900 trips a day to that corner instead of the high intensity stuff in a church so yeah yeah I agree okay all right all right and so then on 3C um we believe that there is um uh injuries to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate in the immediate vicinity um and those would be include but not limited strictly to increased noise uh light pollution sight uh variances or or or whatnot and and potentially decreases in market value for adjacent properties would that be fair to say I would agree with that market value would be would be hard I think that's subjective and usually it it relates to the the market side of things and where we're at but I I think many of those other things are are covered with that chair Mr chair okay Mr chair if I can just jump in there just if they meet our light standards I'm not sure how we can say they're having light pollution if they're meeting our noise guidelines I don't know how we can meet noise issues and they not requesting any site variances from setbacks or anything else so I just well again I think that comes down to the idea of how many lights are they going to be how many lights are they going to put in and how many lights would they turn off at night I I I one of those guys that happens to be very sensitive to uh light pollution for lack of a better word whether it comes from my neighbor's barn I mean I have a I have one light on my barn and I know my neighbor complains about it you know so my only point is it it I I don't think that it's a an issue of um I think it's an issue of there's just light and there would be more than you what you would find in residential development uh potentially I don't know if that's true at all so what what I would say again what Kendra talked about at the beginning either you have to add conditions to mitigate the concerns you have so if again you don't if you want to deny this you can if one of these seven are not met you can recommend denial as my understanding um however you could alter condition eight to say um lighting to be minimal at night time and pull every 400 yards if he feels effect but to say that if they meet our standards in lighting that that's a reason to deny it I just don't mean my job as the city administrator is also to protect the city and I can't in good conscious let you add if they meet lighting standards that that's a reason to deny them Mr chair yeah Brad so again the the sight lines and those kind of things are things we cannot use as a reason to deny um where people have built those kind of things they were there there somebody across the street from Hackamore has built a home and they've got beautiful Windows those kind of things and they're overlooking these Rolling Hills four or five properties which were Farms that one point and such we can't say that's a reason is what you're saying I'm saying if they're meeting if they're going to meet city code city law just like anything else coming in now this is a conditional use permits you can attach harsher conditions if you want so I'm not saying you couldn't attach any amount of conditions regarding lighting Landscaping anything to mitigate those problems but to say we're going to deny you because you're willing to meet our code it creates an issue that creates a significant issue so this is where it comes down to enhancing conditions to meet and mitigate your concerns um so lighting for example enhance Landscaping um but that's it that's condition 12 I think that's already recommended um you know listen if it's just coming to light I mean there there are many issues here I think that everybody can point to as to why we think think that this is not this is not the best use uh or that this is is me this is going to fail um the um uh the U it's getting late um um I don't know I again I I don't know how it is what we can sit here right now and say you know what empirically or you know we we we're looking at this and based on the language that we got we think that this would be injurious and that they would have a loss in use in in enjoyment of their property and they may lose value and that and that we think that the building is too large for this particular site and the and that the traffic is too much for this community or that particular spot and yet then we have to come up with some sort of magical numbers to say that well this is what it would take to make it all right we just know that the church doesn't want to get any smaller than 70,000 square feet and they don't want a parking lot any less than 850 cars and they're going to still do this and that and the other thing I just I don't know how we get around this Brad well to Kendra's point I think you the first part was just fine when when the commission starting getting into um lighting noise and and setbacks and such things that where it got that's where it got factually inaccurate because there are facts that state the opposite now if you're talking about injurious to use of property that's subjective and if you feel that way absolutely that's that's a reason to consider a denying I just when you got to the point where sight or lighting setbacks and things that they're meeting our entire code that's where I piped out okay but how are we supposed to defend that when one we don't know anything about the number of Lights they're going to put up and the code doesn't require anything it doesn't require a minimum and it doesn't have a maximum it we Mr chair we have a lighting plan that shows how many light fixtures are on the plan and we have lighting maximums which I've talked about several times it cannot exceed a foot candle we don't have minimums though but we do have Max maximums and they comply with the lighting standards in our zoning Orin so I think that one is you just don't want to have things in here where factually empirically they meet the code you could certainly say some of the other things that can't be measured so Mr chair let me just chime in I think I think when we talk about a about size of a building which which also implies size of parking lot and and things of that nature it may imply that lighting within a a size of that structure with a building plus if the number of cars that would be coming in and out especially in winter months when it's very very dark I would stick with size of building and fitting the neighborhood um when you think about a parking lot of that size yes it meets code yes it would meet lighting standards but I go back to a and does this really fit the size of the building in the parking lot for the for the neighbor okay well I I I guess it really comes down to is that they may they may meet it but I I think it's too much light for the site and if that's a code thing whatever let it just be known in the record then that I personally had an issue with the lights and and um if it's not the reason for denying the conditional use permit it's still just an issue I had and it should be it should be you know if this thing moves forward and they try to resolve some of these issues hopefully they bring more lack of a better word hopefully they bring more light to this thing so that we can all understand you know what this will look like let that let that be the end of it so as far as free C is concern what what Mr chair you don't have to find that that they don't meet any of them so I think if you focus frankly on two or three as you've noted that you think don't comply that is adequate for findings of denial you do not have to address each of them you can but you're not required to address each of them if they fail to meet one of the standards that can be your finding andri for just to help the commission out here just if they if they want to find a way to deny that's my job as well to help them find a way to deny um under C if we basically took out the second sentence and changed will not to will the church will be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the permitted uses of the rsf to District period yep f with me yeah there you go I me yeah that that's fine um okay thanks br and so then on um 3E um we already have that so are we are we good are we ready to any other changes or suggestions so on adequate public facilities are not available and they are I thought that was disagree with the county engineer are we talking the traffic and stuff okay yeah I guess you'd have to add that's just my opinion disagreeing with the County engineer you guys may not feel that way and I'm willing to pull that if if I'm not GNA die on that wall if we don't need to I'm with you on it all right okay all right if there are no other changes um I say we um you want a motion yes yeah please I'll I'll work it and try and make it sweet and simple um I make a motion to deny the site plan and conditional use permit based off of our discussion related to 3A and staff has noted the reasons was it does not fit in the neighborhood is that what we're saying the facility Well I don't I mean as as as amended or as highlighted or yeah also noting 3C the church will be injured to the use and enjoyment of the property in the admitted vicinity is that what where you wrote that Brad correct I just took out the notot so the church will and then I eliminated the second sentence right so with that change and then Alo with um 3E and that is related to me and um commissioner Dickman stating the uh agreement with the engineer on traffic is that the way we want to say it I think it's specific to the county road improvements or future improvements I I don't disagree with Hackamore I have more concerns about 101 I'll I'll agree to that comment if uh Brad or Kendrick can write that down um like I said it could be adequate public facilities on Conwood 101 are not available to serve the site continue yes yes hey I don't I don't want to throw a I don't want to throw a stick in the mud here but I don't know why we wouldn't say Hackamore because Hackamore is where most of your Ingress and egress is going to happen and it is going to be a major road going east and west between 116 and but I well I tell you what I if I see a problem I see more of a problem on Hackamore than I do on 101 Mr chair though I think uh Mr chair you or or commissioner Dickman made mention of a facility that there was five or six roads in and out of that out of one of the properties and such and and uh I I think County or Highway 101 is probably the biggest thing because everything else is a collector there I really think 101 needs changes not just for this property but properties related to renia um the properties in Maple Grove the properties in wetta the properties in Madina I think I think 101 is the biggest issue okay all right if you guys want to just leave it to 101 then that's fine okay no problem okay any other suggestions changes questions that was just the the motion that commissioner varap was making so there would need to be a second upon that I'll second that you like I'm sorry I forgot that okay we'll do roll call um uh those in favor to deny the resolution uh say yay oppose nay uh chair Jacobs I vote yay say that again you're you're agreeing with my motion or you're disagreeing I think it's getting late Dean we're we're we're talking about a vote on the motion for the resolution for the condition conditional use permit correct to deny it that's that's right deny it is getting late I'm sorry keep going a motion to deny okay we recommend denial right how's [Music] that we we recommend denial of the resolution approving a plan so if you're in favor of that denial you'll respond by a if you if you are not in favor and you not want to or approve it then you want to say nay okay so I vote yay uh commissioner Dickman Dickman yay commissioner shulak yay commissioner shulak yay and commissioner ven Camp yay okay now um we have uh then a resolution approving the preliminary plat does anybody have any changes or other questions or comments for that all right if there is none I'll take a motion to approve the resolution for a preliminary plat I think if I can ask for clarification Mr chair sure absolutely um Kendra or Brad I think you one of you made the statement we cannot say no to this because of all of the things related to the city as far as preliminary plat yes the preliminary plat is does it meet the dimensional requirements in the code I don't know how you would find findings a fact to say this does not meet the rsf2 lot size standards so to make it simple we would be saying that a church could go here just not because of the site plan and stuff that we just denight is that what we'd be saying no I think what we're I think what we're saying is that the church as as it's laid out with the parking lots meets all the setbacks nope this has nothing to do with the church it has nothing to do with building all it's saying is you can create a 27 acre lot and a 4 acre outlot oh thank you for the clarification I will make that motion then all right do I have a second sh all right roll call vote uh chair Jacobs votes yay commissioner Dickman commissioner Dickman yay commiss shulack yay and commissioner varen Camp yay okay that passes for nothing Mr chair yes if I can thank Kendra and helping me through those sorry for my confusion guys it's late no but thank everybody I that was that was some heavy lifting and it's really getting late so um let us uh let us move forth or does anybody need a break it's been two hours this will be quick we can knock this one off I think so too all right we're going to move on then to uh item uh 6D final PUD development plan for bellweather yeah Kendra your report please yeah this is just the final plat for the fifth edition of bell weather uh uh south of Ste road on the west side of the project and uh next slide it's for 46 single family homes and an outlot for Park um partially for Park we'll talk a little bit about that this is consistent with the previous approvals for Bell weather which was formerly known as Encore uh next slide uh again this is the site area it's the northwest corner of the site next slide this is uh it's a it's phase four because remember number phase two got split into two but it's it's the fifth edition uh as shown on the screen next slide uh the lots are a mix of 50 and 60 foot wide Lots um uh the floor options are as approved it's consistent with the approvals next slide there is a temporary called the sack on 102nd Place that will need to be added to the plans and that that's been included as a condition of approval next slide utilities are available um to serve the project um there are some Wetland monuments that aren't shown properly so they will need to update that but generally is consistent with the ordinance next slide park dedication actually we sent this to the Planning Commission and uh the developer had shown a large Outlaw for Park dedication and the planning Parks Commission excuse me actually recommended a slightly smaller area um next slide um you can see the top slide is what was proposed by the applicant and on that North uh upper right corner there's an Upland area at the entry to the project that is disconnected from the Parkland and uh our concern was Parks uh staff would not unintentionally forget to maintain it and so uh Parks Commission recommended just the portion on the west side of the the Wetland and not that portion at the end of the day uh we're calculating Park dedication for Bell weather overall and they're still over the minimum requirements so losing that tiny bit of Upland uh is really a wash uh so we're re recommending that smaller portion in pink on the bottom uh for Park dedication next slide with that we do uh recommend approval of the resolution approving the final PUD plan for bellweather 5ifth Edition thank you Kendra all right this is not a public hearing um Commissioners any questions or discussions none for me I didn't um I didn't note any myself um commissioner V anything no thank you Mr shac none here Mr chair okay uh Mr chair I could make a motion to uh approve the recommendations if there's no discussion there's no public hearing very good thank you very much so motion's been made do we got a second okay roll call vote all those in favor of approve approving or recommending approval of the resolution say yay um chair Jacobs yay commissioner [Music] Dickman yay commissioner schac yay commissioner varen Camp yes okay it passes 4 Z all right item seven a uh planning project update I got find um I uh Curious um anything uh um anything happened with t Vera at the last city council meeting they they make any changes accept any of ours or throw any of them out um they did they did modify your recommendation with uh what I think was three changes they did not require the cesac islands um that you had added um let me just check my notes here from that meeting they they made three changes I think one of them wasn't it the um setting up the nature preserves or no uh they actually um allowed you they did not allow the reduced deck setback for all Lots they allowed that reduced setback for all except Lots 2 26 through 228 375 through 380 and 490 through 501 and those are lots that directly abutted existing Lots no open space between them so they said we wouldn't allow that reduced deck set back there um and again removed condition Kendra I think the other thing was on the garage um percentage I think Council had held firm on our recommendation with garages yeah they did not change that so the two I guess there were only two uh changes uh that was the reduced setback uh limiting that and removing the called theck Island requirement so they they accepted our recommendation on the on keeping the garage sizes or did I hear that wrong the garage forward right prohibiting garage forward design yes they that percentages yep correct okay okay I don't have uh anything else anyone else just a quick question about number five uh the Comm link Midwest site uh that's supposed to go in across from what is now Tom Thumb is that the one uh yes they are not proceeding forward they have found another site and so they'll just be working with the city engineer to restore the site uh to make sure because they had started construction last fall if you remember oh but they ultimately found another site that they felt worked better for them was it something we said thank you so what happens to the grading that they did well that's what I'm saying they have to restore that uh to make sure that um um storm water is managed appropriately so they're working closely with the public works director to maintain that site so they don't have to restore it back to what it was but they have to make sure they are not having runoff leave the site that's interesting well we don't see too many of those people get approved and then back out well especially get approved and start and back out but it's a weird yeah well you know I've been driving by that thing you know when I go down to spikes to get Horse Feed and I'm like when are they you know they've done all this grading I'm like when are they going to start putting something up but they you know so I guess that would explain it all right any other questions all right uh let's move on to 7B city council report and I think you said council member Schultz was not here today that is correct so you can just accept that report Mr chair okay we'll do so and anybody want to comment maybe you could ask him directly uh in the interest of time uh any other business none from staff okay so Mr chair maybe just something to note I know it came up tonight but uh it there may be something we'd like to either work on with commission and councel or with staff just around the uh standards for C1 and rsf2 just around commercial size and and having that code I know we've talked about AJ ascy and buildable Lots on the previous meeting and it seems like this this is another one to kind of look at as we continue to see growth in corkrin to make sure that we're as these things come up even just like the sign exceptions that came up signage that were having that front of mind yeah um I I agree and and I see you know commonality on one Viewpoint here between last month's issue with and this one and that is people would say to darara you know what are you doing this was supposed to be low density single family residential but yet they're building all these town homes and Twin Homes which is clearly not low density if you take a look at the footprint that they're on it's not and I think that that confuses people because they don't understand this equation that goes into determining that three to five houses per acre density um and I I so I I I'd like to maybe you know discuss that a little bit further and see if there's a way to bring Clarity but then people were saying that here about this development you know these people like hey man we moved here you know three years ago or six months ago and we built this house and we've always been led to believe that this was going to be single family residential and I know that we can't we can't look out for everybody uh in these regards um they they still have their own um obligation to do their own uh work on making sure they understand this stuff and but you know when we say single family and then but we have conditional uses how can we make that clearer so that these people could say well yeah it's vacant land now but yeah it could be single family residential because that's what everybody had been telling them but then yet all of a sudden Here Comes mega church and and a lot of people really really taken back by that and you know maybe there's something we can do to maybe help clarify that or take some of that surprise out that's all I'll say that's a that's a discussion for another day but I think that's a good point uh commissioner Dickman I I there there's a couple things I'd like to understand and and see if we can maybe um not necessarily improve but just uh State differently I don't know okay um any other business okay uh commissioner L on calendar anybody need to make any changes shock would you mind switching your 813 with [Music] my not at all so you would take the 13th and I would take the 10th of September correct correct all right chair if I may yeah um I'm not sure if Meredith woo will be available for the 723 council meeting so we may want to look at that at our at our um when we don't have another meeting between then and now um uh let's see when is the 23rd okay that's in um that's in three weeks right three weeks from yes yeah listen if if if she's not going to be here just let me know and I'll take it I can cover it too Mr chair okay so yeah just get a hold of either Dean and one of us will will'll step in thank you yeah I I'll follow up and let both of you know thank you okay great send send me a packet if you need me I I will absolutely be available okay um all right item nine adjournment do I have a motion to adjourn so move second second Sho like Okay um okay so uh we'll take a roll call vote chair Jacobs I vote yay commissioner Dickman yay commissioner shate yay and commissioner ven Camp yay all right this meeting is now officially concluded I think this has to go down the books as maybe one of our latest um thank you all for uh your time and especially our staff um Brad and Kendra and everybody else he did a great job thanks Mike I think under the circumstances I thought the public hearing uh went exceptionally well yes so yeah the only one I've been involved