Based on the context provided and the dialogue within the transcript, here is the formatted version with speaker names identified. **Note on Council Members:** The provided list mentions Carl Bliss and Orin Kipp; however, the roll call and dialogue in the transcript identify **Connie Doll** and **John Carlson** as the active members present alongside Ethan Gilmore and Katie Hill. [4:52] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: order the um February 6 2023 meeting of the Bayport City Council um let’s all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Allegiance the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right thanks so our new uh interim City administrator Matt call the roll [4:52] **Matt Kline**: yep um council member Hill [4:52] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: here [4:52] **Matt Kline**: council member of Gilmore [4:52] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: here [4:52] **Matt Kline**: council member doll [4:52] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: president [4:52] **Matt Kline**: council member Carlson [5:37] **Councilmember John Carlson**: here [5:37] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: here a present all present all right um I think we have a slight change to the agenda right Matt [5:37] **Matt Kline**: yeah Matt Amir um if I can make just a friendly amendment can if possible um to accommodate schedules um we can have PD report and the fire report after the proclamations commendations petitions and announcements so not move all the staff reports just those two [5:37] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: just those two okay sounds good I’ll I’ll make a motion that we approve the agenda with that one change that Matt just mentioned do we have a second [5:37] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: second [6:24] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all in favor wait is that okay I’ll say I’m gonna remember if we do roll calls or not not okay all in favor aye **Council Members**: aye [6:24] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: anyone opposed all right so now we will move on to the proclamations accommodations petitions and announcements um we just have one and it’s the recycling award recipient for January is Daniel frazen Meyer frasmeyer Franz Meyer Franz Meyer sorry um he’ll be awarded for his recycling efforts with a grant from Washington County and next is uh should we Matt do you care who goes first sergeant Jackson or nope um Jackson PD report [7:12] **Sergeant Jay Jackson**: Council uh stepping in for the chief in her absence here a couple things to go over here um the officer Cornell submitted and received a grant for the canine um from the United States police canine Association received 7 500. [7:30] uh uh after lupowski went to Anderson Elementary and attended their little morning talk show that they do that gets transmitted to all of the classrooms and that was well received and also officer polski did a police department tour which we do every so often throughout the year with different groups Boy Scouts in the school but they get a tour of the entire police department get to look at our evidence room and go through all of our squad cars um couple things as far as the police department goes we did all of our training schedule for this coming year part of that we coordinated with Park Heights Police Department to do some of our common training um just to make it more efficient plus they [8:16] tend to be our main backup throughout the year so it makes sense to do some work training with them um Chief Eastman also um is working on the OSHA grant information to replace our security glass in um from City Hall here as well as updating our cameras within the city hall and that’s all gotten through matching grandfather through the OSHA program and then the good news is Officer Cornell is getting his canine very soon and hopefully I can we can update that a little bit more but they are currently looking for the dog he’s going to be receiving right now so there’s a selection process where they have to get the right dog in you know has the right temperamentally right toy drive and all of that [9:02] um we also put out a reminder through the Facebook page regarding our snowmobile ordinance we had some complaints earlier regarding that and where the stone bills are allowed to operate within the city so check out the Facebook page for any of those updates we also have the totals from all of our case numbers for the last several years outlined uh last year in 2022 we had uh 8802 calls supposed to be anything pretty much whatever we do with the police department we pull the case number and um it could be anything from a lockout to a burglary everything would get a case number um and that was up almost a little um right around 500 from the previous year 2020 was at uh [9:49] 8847 so it was kind of an outlier year I don’t know if that was covet or what the reason was for the increase there but that’s a pretty significant from the 7100 we had in 2019. that being said I will stand for any questions that anybody has [9:49] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: well thank you Sergeant Jackson and I’m very excited for officer Cornell he did a great job raising the funds and the kids are going to love it when they go on tours and when they get to meet this new dog that oh for sure meeting with me as well so I’m pretty excited about it and I’m certain I’ll be able to hop in with some training with him too so good yeah you’re going to be a great resource for him since you had kilo so thank you and um also I saw on Facebook that you someone just posted from the police department that you guys are looking for reserves [10:37] **Sergeant Jay Jackson**: yep always ongoing um search for reserves right now a recruitment all over his uh download so anything we can do to try and get the message out there and we’ve rotated some new officers into the uh uh liaison position for The Reserve officer so uh hoping to maybe get out and get some extra people to volunteer their time it’s a really good program we’ve gotten most of our new officers have started off as reserves here so it’s really nice to be able to make that step and it’s an old Community we get to know so and it’s a great Community to do that in right [10:37] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: absolutely come to Bayport all right anybody else anyone else thank you [11:22] **Sergeant Jay Jackson**: thank you thank you [11:22] **Fire Chief Gabe Kinney**: all right Alan Vladimir and council members for the month of January the fair Department responded to 89 calls uh compared to 83 and 2022 our monthly drills were quarterly SCBA and emergency responder medical training our fire inspections are ongoing past events where the Washington County Fire Chiefs the annual relief association meeting upcoming meetings we have a fire Improvement team one of the things I do want to mention I can’t go into details but we did have a very tough last week so if you see any of the firemen just thank them and tell them how much you appreciate it it started last Monday and ended Saturday so we had some difficult calls so um the safety tip is we did have a respond up to Stillwater to help them [12:09] out the house fire the fire hydrants are buried in snow dig them out we greatly appreciate it at least three feet around and also watch your step out there we’ve got a lot of people falling so with that I stand up for any questions [12:14] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: well sorry to hear that you guys had that tough week it goes yeah I did post on the Bayport neighborhood Facebook page about hydrant clearing and I got a few people to say oh I did mine you know so hopefully that helped a little bit but it is the homeowner’s responsibility right Whoever has it or not who’s who’s in charge of that uh public Arts director not public works now the homeowner is highly encouraged [12:55] **Public Works Director Joe Hansen**: to um make sure that their hydrants are are dug out we do realize that this is a severe hardship for some people we encourage people to potentially um you know get a neighborhood kid to help out or um I do know that there’s Community thread potentially provides some help for that we do uh also have STS come around a sentence to serve to dig out hydrants along 95 and anywhere else but overall in the city from what I’ve seen that the residents have done a fairly good job of of that [12:55] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: good um I wonder if we should have like an adopt a hydrant thing like we do with the storm drains do they ever do that [13:41] **Public Works Director Joe Hansen**: not heard of it it’s an idea [13:41] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay um I feel like I had one other question for you but I forgot it so I’ll ask you later well all right thank you thank you thank you thank you thanks all right so now we will have move on to the open Forum so if anyone is this is a chance for you to uh come up to the podium if you want to talk about something that’s not part of the agenda I don’t think we have anyone here for that right you’re just here to because it’s so fun to watch us all right great so let’s see um move on to the consent agenda [14:28] so we’ll consider a resolution adapting adopting items one through nine the January 9 2023 city council Workshop minutes January 9th 2023 city council regular meeting minutes January payables and receipts January building Plumbing mechanical and Zoning permits report a special event application from Anderson Corporation for a picnic on August 11th and 12th at Lakeside Park special event application from Kenny Croy Girl Scouts for Twilight camp on August 17th the 20th at Lakeside Park and a special event application from run Stillwater for the lift bridge Road Race on June 24th uh accepting a monetary donation from Afton Bay Port Lakeland Lions Club for [15:15] the Centennial Park pavilion and award the quote for the 2023 sidewalk cutting project do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda [15:15] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: I’ll make a motion approving the consent agenda [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right thanks Connie do we have a second [15:15] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: I second [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right thanks Katie all those uh oh a roll call vote uh councilmember Carlson [15:15] **Councilmember John Carlson**: aye [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: councilmember doll [15:15] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: aye [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member Gilmore [15:15] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: hi [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member Hill [15:15] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: aye [15:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: mayor Hansen aye All Eyes all right we have no public hearings so our unfinished business is to discuss the results of the intersection review and traffic control [16:02] analysis that seh did for us and Matt’s gonna present this for us [16:02] **Matt Kline**: thank you madam mayor members of the council um in the fall of 2020 the city implemented a 20 mile per hour speed limit on all city streets at that time there was also two intersections specifically Fifth Street North First Avenue North and Third Street South 2nd Avenue South um that we’re also um they were also requested to have an analysis SCH indicated that it might be better to wait until the speed limit the 20 mile per hour speed limit had been in place for at least a year so that is what we did the [16:49] the analysis was completed here in the fall or in December of 2022 a little over a year since the completion of the speed limit decrease analysis for the intersection evaluation was based on four different criteria one was traffic volume two was trash crash data three is vehicle speed and four was sight distance um all of that can be um I’m not going to go in depth on all those items I think they’re pretty self-explanatory um if you want you can read through the um an entire evaluation um ultimately what the analysis indicates is that SCH is recommending to [17:37] install stop signs on the First Avenue North approaches to 5th Street North and then at the other intersection to replace the yield signs with stop signs on the Second Avenue South approaches to Third Street South um Public Works will install these would install these measures when feasible the yield signs are easily replaced with stop signs when they become available the stop signs at 5th Street North and First Avenue North would agree placed when the Frost has gone out staff recommends city council accept the intersection review and traffic control analysis that was completed by SCH [18:23] and then um proceed with the installation of traffic control measures as presented time for questions [18:23] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay thanks Matt uh I have just some questions about timing first just to get it clear for me so it says that we implemented this the speed limit reduction in the fall of 2020 is that just when we voted on it but the size didn’t actually go in then because that’s 20 20 and then all the other numbers are 20 21. so maybe that’s my hair you just think you typed it wrong [18:23] **Matt Kline**: that’s possible [18:23] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay all right so and then the other question was um the June July 2021 analysis was that SCH that did that or was that those excuse [19:08] me were those the numbers we got from the PD info [19:08] **Matt Kline**: I believe seh did their own numbers at the they did it then too numbers were used from PD but I think they were more to just evaluate some of the uh um analysis [19:08] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay all right so does anyone else have any questions about the analysis or anything else [19:54] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: I think I probably have asked about it before but um it always seems to me it’s for everything but if you identify a place that is a potential problem seems like a lot to do to put up stop signs who means this is this is what we’re kind of stuck with and yeah [19:54] **Matt Kline**: so council member doll we you’re right it is a lot definitely put up stop signs there are definitely communities out there who the council is like nope we want to put up a stop sign or a four-way stop right here and we’re gonna do it so they don’t necessarily do any analysis um what that can lead to potentially um you know is creating a um an issue that’s worse than what you already have so the console doesn’t [20:42] necessarily have a policy on this um but staff’s recommendation would be in order to make sure that we’re doing appropriate traffic control that if in the future somebody requests this and we or staff and Council feel that there’s an issue at that intersection I mean there was good criteria to question these two intersections right um mayor Hansen had brought up that there had been three crashes essentially at the Street North First Avenue North intersection so um in both of these areas were found to have essentially what caused the traffic control as a requirement is sight line issues in both the locations so yes it’s a lot to go through would I [21:30] recommend to go that process again absolutely [21:30] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: yeah it it’s a good question John and I guess I was kind of surprised that maybe I just had a envisioned that it wasn’t only going to be the intersections that we specifically mentioned I didn’t realize how the study worked I thought they would go like they could actually study the town and say oh wait you guys missed this intersection it’s also a problem I didn’t realize we had to point out all of the ones that they were going to study because I I regret now that we didn’t specifically mention the one right by Pony preschool because I feel like there’s a could be an issue on that corner maybe Connie would know more since she works right there but um I’ve had one resident since we did talked about this study say that they [22:17] feel like there’s some issues on that corner and I don’t know if it’s too late to do anything about that [22:17] **Matt Kline**: so Madam mayor um I I’m not going to speak for how the engineering works and stuff like that but based on the the analysis of these two intersections I believe that intersection already has stop signs it has a huge it has a year it has a yield yeah okay so there’s there’s a good possibility that those yield signs would based on this because of its sight line issues be changed over to stop signs essentially um and can we do that let’s get her done so what we could do is I could go back to Chad and say hey um this intersection here is kind of the same intersection that we have um at 5th Street North and First Avenue North and just get a rough opinion to [23:03] see if we would have to go through that whole process because essentially it’s in essence almost the same intersection yeah um if you want that you can absolutely do that um that would be great field signs do help somewhat if if people take them seriously essentially um again I’m not saying that the stop signs are going to cure everything in those locations because we know how it works people for the first week two weeks maybe stop and then because there’s so little traffic that was one of the big things too if you look at the traffic counts yeah normal traffic control intersections to Warrant essentially a four-way stop is 6 000 [23:48] cars per day at any given in bang we’re at like 500 and 900 and so the issue becomes the locals tend to and we’re talking about local drivers here once they get comfortable with that and that there’s no cars coming any other way um you know they’re gonna not necessarily stop at those and I hate to put stuff up just to make feel people feel comfortable that’s what this that’s what doing the whole analysis does to verify that yes it’s needed and not just to make residents feel better about you know that there is signage there yeah [23:48] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: well it just it to me it I I had a situation today um where I came to a four-way intersection and I actually had the right away and there was two cars coming the other way and they both just like hey you guys did you guys see it so that’s what I find helpful for people that don’t understand how uncontrolled intersections work it makes it crystal clear so but yeah this makes sense okay anyone else have any comments or questions nothing you guys just wanted this meeting to go quickly Connie’s tired [Laughter] all right um do we have a motion to accept the intersection review and traffic control [25:20] analysis completed by SCH and proceed with the installation of traffic control measures as presented [25:20] **Councilmember John Carlson**: he’s so moved [25:20] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right do we have a second [25:20] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: all right thanks John and Ethan uh let’s see I should like highlight this what we have to do I don’t know can I you have to do a roll call no all right all those in favor say aye **Council Members**: aye [25:20] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: you want to pose all right so that passes thanks seh for confirming what we kind of already knew all right so now we move on to new business where we’re going to consider an application submitted by Nathan jesperson for variances to allow an [26:06] expansion of the existing substandard single-family home at 317 Lake Street North and Sarah is going to start us off [26:29] **Sara Taylor**: [Music] the property currently consists of a three-story single-family house and attached garage is surrounded by residential uses on the North and South the River Park Marina on the west and the St Croix River on the East I should mention there’s a printout of slides for the council that your seats there thank you the property is owned our two single family Urban and presently guided for residential use by the comprehensive plan it’s also located within the lower Saint Croix River Shoreline in bluffland and floodplain Management areas his existing house is considered substandard because it does not meet the required Hunter foot setback from the river ordinary high water mark the 40-foot setback from slopes greater than 12 percent or the 20 maximum impervious coverage as required by the city [27:40] ordinance 2002 variances were granted to allow the property to be elevated within the same building footprint to comply with the floodplain ordinance project included filling in the below grade basement and raising the original first and second floors to allow for construction of a new Full main floor above grade resulting in a three-story home the applicant purchased the property last year over the past few months Steph has met and corresponded with him regarding various regulatory restrictions for the property the applicant acknowledged he was aware that Riverway ordinance restrictions would likely be a factor if pursuing structural alterations to the substandard house as well as staff’s [28:25] recommendation whether to approve or deny any variance requests that said the applicant has decided to proceed with variance requests for two structural additions State Statute stipulates that variances should only be permitted when the applicant establishes their practical difficulties in complying with the ordinance practical difficulties is a legal standard and a three-factor test that the city must apply to all variance requests to constitute practical difficulties all three factors of the test must be satisfied which are listed on the slide reasonably reasonableness uniqueness and character [29:09] the first variance is to allow an addition to the north side of the house to create a first floor entry currently an exterior stairwell exists on the north side of the house which serves as the as the primary entrance into the home and leads to the second floor the applicant is proposing to remove the exterior stairwell and create a new enclosed entry to the first floor the footprint of the addition is outlined in red on the survey overall staff believes the proposed first floor entry meets all three factors that constitute a practical difficulty the addition is reasonable to facilitate more practical and efficient accessibility the addition will consist of a lateral expansion of the house which is permitted by the ordinance the addition will comply with the setback from the river and the setback [29:54] from the north side yard property line in regards to slopes and blufflands Bluff lines the proposed setback is similar and consistent with the surrounding properties that have added fill to protect structures from flood conditions the additional impervious coverage for the entry will be mitigated by removing non-essential impervious Elsewhere on the property and finally at rain Garden will be installed to address storm water drainage and infiltration which will be an improvement over the existing conditions for these reasons staff is recommending approval of this variance request the second edition proposed by the applicant is to expand the third floor on the east side of the house towards the river to create additional living area architecturally the existing house was designed with the third floor recessed [30:42] in depth from the lower floors resulting in a greater setback from the river the applicant is proposing to extend the third floor toward the river to meet the front building line of the first and second floors to create additional living space while the variance is granted in 2002 allowed for the house to be reconstructed at the existing setback from the river it’s important to clarify that these variances were granted specifically for the house to be elevated for flood protection which was considered to be Paramount over River setback regulations these variants these variances do not set precedent for a long future expansion of the structure further into the setback toward the river or in roof line as proposed section 601 of the Riverway ordinance [31:28] allows for certain exceptions to setbacks but stipulates that subsequent expansion or alteration to the existing substandard structure shall only be allowed laterally or parallel and land word to the river and shall not include alterations to the roof line of the structure as proposed the East expansion of the third floor does not meet the exceptions provided by the ordinance staff also believes that the three factors to constitute a practical difficulty have not been met the first is reasonableness while the applicant may be seeking additional living and bedroom area to better suit his family the location of the proposed expansion on the third floor is not necessary to make reasonable use of the existing house [32:14] here the property is already in use as a single family residential home and the desire to expand that use for a larger home is not necessary to allow reasonable reasonable use uniqueness is the second Factor the applicant has expressed challenges with a lack of suitable living space on the third floor all these conditions may not be ideal for the applicant’s family they were existing when he purchased the house no physical characteristics or features of this land parcel are unique when compared to other Lots or homes on Lake Street only personal characters characteristics and preferences of the property owner the app can acknowledged he was aware that Riverway ordinance restrictions would likely be a factor of pursuing structural alterations but again these [33:01] characteristics do not characteristics do not exist that are unique to the land to Warrant of variance and the final factor is essential character currently the neighborhood consists of one and two-story homes as a three-story this home is already distinct in scale when compared to other surrounding homes further expansion of the third floor and modification of the roof line would suggest added departure from the character of the neighborhood and results in an increased riverward building phase finally the DNR provided a memo that outlines various reasons why the variance for the East Edition shall not be approved such as non-compliance with setbacks to increased mass and visibility from The River an opportunity to expand facing away from the river in [33:48] conclusion the DNR strongly recommended to denial of the applicant’s request for the third story expansion on the side facing the river for these reasons staff finds that the criteria for variance has not been met for the third floor expansion and therefore is recommending denial of the request the Planning Commission held a public hearing on that application on December 19th no public comments were received other than those presented by the applicant the Planning Commission recommended approval 5-0 for the proposed North Edition subject to the findings of fact and conditions of approval suggested by staff the Planning Commission considered a formal motion to deny the proposed East Edition but the motion to deny a failed by a vote of 2-3 those that voted nay for the denial [34:34] expressed support for the East Edition but there was no formal motion made by the Planning Commission to recommend approval to the city council and the City attorney is here can I have additional clarification if you have questions about that later on in the meeting at the Planning Commission meeting it should also be noted that the applicant presented a potential alternative of tearing down the existing house and pursuing new construction working with his surveyor since the Planning Commission meeting the applicant has successfully demonstrated that a new structure footprint could be designed to retain similar square footage of the existing home while also complying with all Riverway setbacks and impervious coverage requirements new construction would allow the applicant to design the interior of the [35:20] home to fit the exact needs of his family which addresses the challenges related to the variance requests before you tonight new construction would also allow for improved grading and enhanced lab Landscaping on the property to screen the house from the river which would be an improvement over the existing conditions that said staff would like to remind the city council that the proposal under consideration this evening involves the north and east editions not an alternate proposal for new construction therefore discussion should be focused on whether the proposed north and east editions meet the three three Factor criteria to justify the variance and finally in closing I’d like to note that the suggested findings of fact to support approval of the north first floor [36:06] Edition and denial of the East Third Floor expansion are listed within the staff report subject to various conditions of approval staff has prepared a resolution to approve the north Edition and a separate resolution to deny the East Edition which are included in your agenda packet I’d like to remind the city council that this is not a public hearing but the applicant is present and available to answer any questions related to the variance requests um at this time I’d be happy to take any initial questions from the city council and again our City attorney Ms Benson is here and also can provide guidance on the state statute variance criteria as it applies to this application I haven’t talked much and you actually had a voice this time I know that I’m not saying [36:53] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: all right yeah thanks from the river that house between the two houses is by far the smallest house yeah so the expansion to me going out the West Side that’s fine that’s where the deck is now and it’ll be all enclosed but it doesn’t make a lot it looks identical it doesn’t look any different so it doesn’t look like it’s going to impose on the River View especially when you have the two monster houses next to it um to expand 200 what was it 200 square feet on the top yeah it’s roughly 10 or 15 feet they’re not technically moving the structure any closer to the river I agree to me that is yeah that is it I I don’t see the point of that why we would deny that to I mean the house is going to [37:38] look a million times better than it does now I don’t know I get that the you know the DNR and everything else but you’re not they’re not actually expanding the footprint they’re actually expanding on the on the North side they are expanding the footprint and that one’s approved the other one’s not expanding it’s just going up above and when you look at the elevation I can’t remember what picture it’s from the other house yeah where they’re all three in a row yeah the one to the north is the same height and the other one that has that has that roof pitch that looks like it’s about as high and then if if with a flat roof the height is going to be the same or less I’m assuming than what it’s at now so and I don’t know if there’s any houses behind me that would have any obstruction to use but I don’t think there’s any neighbors that have [38:24] complained about it that maybe they don’t know about it I guess but isn’t there’s no neighbors to the west of them right right [38:24] **City Attorney Benson**: yeah if I may interject quickly it would be helpful for City staff in um and myself and kind of trying to legally support your conclusions to use that framework um in order to justify this variance it needs to be in harmony with the general purposes and intent of the ordinance consistent with the comprehensive plan which really isn’t in question tonight and then it needs to be a proposed use of the property in a reasonable manner not permitted by the zoning ordinance the plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the property not created by the landowner and the variants will not alter the essential [39:10] essential character of the locality so some of the things that you’re talking about um are not necessarily grounds for granting a variance statutorily so it’s just helpful to focus on those specific items because while they may be interesting to think about they cannot be legal grounds for granting the variants [39:10] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: I think we have to think about it thank you for that but I do think we have to think about the intent of why they have that you know and why he’s seeking a variance is because they don’t want it encroaching on the river they don’t want it making the Riverway look not beautiful all of that and I feel like if we avoid the intent of that and just strictly look at the words and the words say he shouldn’t be able to do [39:55] this but reasonably if you look at it it’s not offending the river at all by doing these changes that’s that’s how I look at it so I feel like if you take a few steps back and just go well why did they put all that together it was to preserve our Riverway in the views and to make sure people don’t do things that and technically the weird thing is he can go all he want laterally and make it bigger that way and that’s not obtrusive to the you know what I mean like I feel like a violation of impervious surfaces to keep the structure yeah I mean like he could like I know it’s not what we’re supposed to be talking about but he could tear it down and he could go totally laterally and make something longer which does to me makes no sense in an ecologically it makes no sense to [40:42] tear it down and start all over when he could make something of that home that is more useful for him and Future Families coverage only increases by what one percent goes from 23.6 to 24.6 I know of Max is 20 anyways but I mean that’s for the north Edition what’s that that’s for them that wasn’t even because of this yeah [41:28] **City Attorney Benson**: so again while these are valuable things to discuss let’s try to use like I liked your role with the like intent of the ordinances to preserve this and do this yeah and it sounds like you were phrasing it as this seems within the intent of the ordinance because the this this and this are in line with that [41:28] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: yeah I agree should we I mean I know that the [42:13] the big news is that the because the um Planning Commission didn’t really like give us a recommendation so the second part his second variance is more interesting but should we first start focusing on the one to the north and just kind of get out of the way and then move to that one or what’s the that would be easier to just kind of go I think bit by bit so first let’s talk about the north Edition which is taking out the stairwell and then putting on the new entryway which if I would not want to live in that house that had only one entryway by that stairwell so I totally get why that is happening and uh everybody recommended approval of that variance the DNR the [42:13] city staff and the Planning Commission so can we easily just move forward with one I want to make a motion to do that and then we can go on to talk about the other one does that okay [42:13] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: I’ll move to adopt a resolution approving setback and imperious coverage variances for a North condition to the existing substandard single-family home located at 317 Lake Street South subject to the findings of facts and conditions of approval stated in the staff report [42:59] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: thanks Ethan and I’ll second that Connie all right does that tell me do I need oh a roll call roll call council member Carlson [42:59] **Councilmember John Carlson**: aye [42:59] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: councilmember doll [42:59] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: aye [42:59] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: councilmember Gilmore [42:59] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: aye [42:59] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member Hill [42:59] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: aye [42:59] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: um or mayor Hansen aye All Eyes all right we have no public hearings so our unfinished business is to discuss the results of the intersection review and traffic control [16:02] analysis that seh did for us and Matt’s gonna present this for us [43:46] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: so I was at the Planning Commission meeting and I just thought I should probably do my liaison job and explain what happened there at least people did not read the packet that closely but um it was even though the the vote didn’t go quite as it was supposed to because the so the motion was to deny approval and then the first person who voted um said I well so there was two eyes to [43:46] deny it but then the other people instead of saying nay said approve so it got a little confusing but the I think that again going back to the intent of what I think the commission wanted was to approve the variance three to two it would have been the vote both of it well they totally approved that the north one was just like we just did it went smoothly no problem um there was discussion about you know well this is what the ordinance says and so we have to go by what it says even though you know the people who voted to deny it were just trying to go by the book and say the DNR doesn’t want it but the other three people we’re looking at it kind of like what Ethan and I were just saying [44:33] seems reasonable to us to do this addition so just that was my takeaway if they would have it kind of the rest of the meeting went really fast and we probably should have done another they should have done another vote where they someone made a motion to um approve the variance but they didn’t so but the takeaway is that I think they wanted to approve it three to two it’s my summary of the Planning Commission meeting but I I attend like I said I agree with with Ethan that I I don’t see how what they’re trying to do here is harming the Riverway right because all they’re really doing is taking this third floor and expanding it out it’s yeah nothing’s getting closer to the river yeah [45:19] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: technically it’s already there yes [45:19] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: yeah and I feel like that’s what the intent is is like you shouldn’t they can’t add a porch on to the first floor because that’s getting closer to the river right so does you’re just taking the top floor and making it even with the rest of them yeah and it’s hard to do it on the back of the house I don’t know if you read that part because they added the garage and it’s not at the same height as the floor so it would be to me that’s a burden for the family to have to do it that way so it is a unique thing to this home the way that they did that addition so that it makes going to the West harder than that [46:04] it’s difficult right that’s true [46:12] **Councilmember John Carlson**: yeah I I I value staff’s recommendations guys say that in about half the meetings a year and it takes a lot for me usually to be swayed from what staff is recommending so in this case I’m falling back on that again and this is Bowie with the dnr’s [46:58] recommendation these are people that do do this work and look at these things daily weekly that’s their profession and I value that yeah and to cast that aside because we look at some pictures and see some things [46:58] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: well and I understand where you’re coming from John but I think it’s their job to tell us what the text says and interpret it literally and our job is to look at it reasonably you know what I mean like their their job is to not be subjective about it they’re supposed to just say this is this is the fact and where we can look at it in a different way because [47:44] you know what I mean do you understand what I’m saying yeah I feel like we have that flexibility we have there’s been other variances that have been allowed that maybe staff didn’t recommend to I don’t know but I just feel like they have to to recommend what they have to recommend they may personally not agree with that but they have to do it because that’s their job that’s so but you have every right to vote how you feel comfortable of course we [48:30] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: well I have a question on the third floor is that actual I mean it looks we want the owners to come up to the well I guess the other questions you said something about uh Landscaping [48:30] like down to the river and I’m just going to assume if they’re going to be putting money into the house I’m sure they’re going to fix that as well to the standard of what needs to be done and um I know that’s not what we’re talking about here but I think if we get to that point and we have to approve anything there I think that one we’d have to look at a lot closer you know like what John said DNR I mean you can’t obviously change that stuff especially they’re way more strict when it comes to Shoreline things um so when it gets to that point I’m sure they’ll be back here you know get looking to the city to approve things so I would definitely look at that closer but I think this one is I don’t know seems like an open interview [49:17] **Sara Taylor**: but council member Gilmore I find my if the city council is going to depart from [49:17] staff’s recommendation for the East Edition we’ve consulted with the city attorney we’d strongly suggest tabling this and bringing it back to a follow-up meeting so that we can establish those additional requirements and conditions of approval such as the screening and Landscaping I think that will have to be beefed up although this is on the third floor the ordinance again does call for substantial screening and staff did not address that in the staff report because our recommendation is to deny that expansion so that is just one of the important reasons why we feel like you know we don’t want to rush through this we want to take a look at what other items in the ordinance might need to be addressed as part of that third floor expansion [50:52] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: the um because there is already a [50:52] list of conditions basically and you don’t feel like that’s covering it if we went with you know [50:52] **Sara Taylor**: and mirror those are specifically addressing the addition on the North which staff is supposed okay so you’re welcome to have a and we invite a conversation on again to help us formulate potential findings of fact that would be adopted at the next meeting regarding those three factors that we pointed out in that intent of the ordinance and then additionally provide feedback on what conditions you might want to see if the in the event of the approval [50:52] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: so what if we don’t feel like there needs to be any more conditions because it’s not affecting [50:52] impervious surface or anything by doing that addition on the third floor [50:52] **Sara Taylor**: we still need you to table it for the findings of fact so that we can make sure that the city council has adopted appropriate findings of fact to meet the statutory requirements for granting a variance okay so and we can’t do that right now [51:37] **City Attorney Benson**: I would not recommend doing that on the Fly no and we have time within the 120 days between now and the next city council meeting okay 120 days from the point of the application oh okay so we have time to do this right um and it’s really important these findings affect our legal standard [51:37] um and that is what would be challenged um if you if someone disagrees with your adoption of this variant so they’re really important um would challenge it potentially the DNR [51:37] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: so I have a yeah I guess I’m confused so if we actually move forward right now and vote to approve both variances isn’t it kind of cart before the horse and if we’re going to put together all those findings of facts after don’t we need it to adjust [52:25] **City Attorney Benson**: so tonight um what we’d recommend if the feel um if you feel that it seems like your body is leaning toward approval the recommendation would be to have a motion to approve second and then a motion to table that directing City staff to draft [52:25] up findings and conditions of approval for your review at the next council meeting so we make a motion to approve contingent on some motion to approve second motion to table that motion so then when the next meeting comes up you’ll have you’ll untable that motion to approve and take a vote and discuss the findings the fact that City staff have drafted and the conditions that City staff have happened [52:25] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: so right now we’re just taking our temperature and we’re I’m feeling like we’re gonna need to do that because at least these three right here were a majority an additional discussion might be helpful about those other factors and that I don’t know if is that helpful to City staff to have them discuss what those factors are that they would be using okay all right [53:12] **Councilmember John Carlson**: yeah for me in these [53:12] findings of facts that are listed and have been submitted through us you know a through whatever it is K I would need for me to change probably my support for this I would need because things addressed to discuss it people’s feelings from just looking at people okay [54:00] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: and I feel like we could legitimately come up with findings effect that will make this because I I think you can interpret it in multiple ways like changing the roof line what does that necessarily mean could mean you know what I mean like there’s many of these are pretty I think hard and fast I don’t think some of [54:00] these are really up for interpretation that’s why I feel the way I am so like are you talking about the three like the reasonable findings fact a through findings of fact isn’t that for the East Side Edition or the North Side Edition I mean [54:46] **Sara Taylor**: and a mirror there’s two separate resolutions in the agenda packet so first there’s a lot of pages here yeah and there’s no page numbers so it’s hard okay first um resolution oh there okay for the north Edition which is a resolution of support and there are findings to support for example the second is for the East Edition which lists findings of fact for denial of that okay so it goes a through k for those findings of fact and it has the [54:46] reasonableness uniqueness essential character list is that on page 86 for you guys like I don’t have page numbers like in the like I don’t know PDF not on the document you don’t okay it’s a little above that when you get up to the console memo um Sarah has outlined the legal factors it might be helpful to have those before you guys during this part of the discussion as well um it’s about 15 pages earlier um where she provides in the the memo at the beginning before the recommendations um the legal standards yep for me that’s on page 64 of the PDF I need like it comes after this and before that because I don’t have page numbers I don’t know how I don’t it’s [55:32] about two-thirds of the way down the scrolly side is it like where so there’s all those pictures that were submitted how are the pictures okay I hope that helps because I’m after the pictures okay yep so keep going past the pictures then there’s like the and then there’s the like map of the property and then there’s and then we have the you know our ladder and if you keep going okay the beginning of the memo let’s see it’s on D suggested findings of fact it’s page three of her Memo those are our legal standards there okay and so the main ones because this isn’t a comprehensive plan issue our intent [56:18] of the ordinance and um meeting the Practical difficulties test which is the property owner proposes to use the property in a reasonable manner not permitted by the zoning ordinance the uniqueness the plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the physical land and not created by the property owner and essential character the variance of granted will not alter the essential character of the locality [57:07] **Councilmember John Carlson**: so for me the the north Edition yeah it’s a pain in the butt to walk up those stairs and get in the house and that that’s sort of an unreasonable expectation to me and and I I love these pictures of places gorgeous it would be gorgeous to build it as is but that’s more of a preference not a [57:07] sort of in my mind [57:07] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: here’s the thing though just one sec would he need a variance though if he was doing this anywhere else [57:07] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: oh I’m sorry go ahead John I just yeah please okay um you got to talk a lot yeah go ahead um you kind of threw me off my I’m sorry [57:53] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: I I I get it you’re you’re wanting to follow the right it makes sense but I I wanted to and I’m not saying I even agree with the ordinancer but that’s not up to me I don’t that I don’t it’s in black and white but so I guess it’s the interpretation of it again to me because I feel like he wouldn’t have to prove that there was a plight if [57:53] he was because what what was what how I interpret it is he’s not really doing anything that goes against the intent of the ordinance you know so he’s having to apply for a variance for something that really isn’t to me something that needs to have a variance because he’s not really affecting the visual view from the river he’s you know what I mean so I feel like that plight of the landowner thing doesn’t really come into play because he’s not [58:40] **City Attorney Benson**: so there are it legally you have to have one the intent two within the comprehensive plan and three reasonable uh what is it practical [58:40] difficulties and under that is the reasonableness uniqueness and essential character so you have to have essentially for you guys it’s four things it meets the intent of the ordinance the use is reasonable in manner the circumstances are unique to the physical land and for its um will not alter the essential character of the locality so you have to meet all four of those yeah the fourth thing is the authority the only thing that seems to be an issue is the plight of the landowners due to circumstances unique to the physical land otherwise the other ones seemed to check the boxes pretty that but we need all four [59:25] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: I know but I’m I’m trying to say he wouldn’t have a plight if there wasn’t the interpretation of it as it’s being interpreted I think the interpretation of it being too like it’s not extending more towards the river than it already was in our view is it am I making any sense [59:25] **City Attorney Benson**: I think I get what you’re saying but the ordinance says that it’s not allowed within the setback so the law says that you cannot no matter where it is on your property you cannot extend within the setback of the river there is a variance because of the flood plain from 2002 for the lower two floors where it was raised above which is why three floors now [1:00:10] um the flood line but they’re the reason the justification there unique to the property was that this property is in the flood plain and it’s flooding all the time so that was the justification to allow the extension into the setback back in the early 2000s so now we need a I want to use the right words to help you guys um we need the plight of the owner is due to circumstances unique to the physical land not created by the property owner to allow them to violate the ordinance through variance to extend into that setback that’s legally required but so that’s there’s no legal interpretation in the fact that the property cannot legally be extended into that setback on the third floor [1:00:56] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: it’s not getting extended that’s exactly it that’s the third floor cannot go closer to the Riverway under law but that’s how you’re interpreting that I interpret it to mean it can’t go any further than it already is into the setback if it if it matches up with the first two floors it’s not going any further it’s just staying [1:01:43] **City Attorney Benson**: so the way that the lies in Minnesota the third floor is not allowed to encroach on the setback the setback goes all the way up to the sky the structure has the allowance under variance right now to be within a setback for floors one and two that variance was granted there was not a variance granted for floor 3 because at the time the reason one and two go into [1:01:43] the setback is because it was flooding okay [1:01:43] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: what happens if we actually do say we interpret it differently and we think they should be able to do it what are the ramifications [1:02:29] **Sara Taylor**: reading okay read if you read H in the findings of fact for that part of it’s the there’s a bunch of wording in italics that that stuff was all helpful for me and I looked at this multiple times and H in the finance effect so is that after you Sarah maybe one down the third floor to me it doesn’t have to go way past the pictures like it’s [1:02:29] it’s is what’s on your third floor I just it doesn’t look like um it’s uh no no that’s for the East I’m just okay that’s what I’m what I mean that’s what I was looking at the extension like it doesn’t look like it’s comes right across I’m from discussion it is to increase some height and more usable area of bedroom space standing on the third floor um okay but again those conditions were existing when the house was purchased um this isn’t absolutely necessary it might be a fault of the home but it’s not necessary to make reasonable use of the space so I think um Miss Benson was trying to clarify that and walk through and I have this light up here these this this is the [1:03:15] staff report these are the findings I think councilmember doll also reiterated in section um is it Jay or H in the resolution there’s specific findings of why the three-factor test has not been met here and again staff’s position is to interpret the ordinance to the best of our ability consult with the DNR take guidance from the city attorney um to avoid liability issues that could potential city ordinance yes this is a city ordinance it was a model ordinance developed by the DNR that the city chose to adapt along with several other communities along the Riverway so this is not this ordinance is not unique to [1:04:01] Bayport um every other community along the river as far as I know has the exact text if not some version of that language in their ordinance so this is a part that gets me that this is why part of why the DNR is saying we should deny it with a larger riverward River Ward building face the visibility of this substandard structure from this federally designated wild and Scenic River would be increased that is not a true statement to me the building face visibility from the river is not increased by what they are doing and we’re I think they’re taking under consideration the side sight line views as well in the picture is up on the screen you can see that [1:04:46] that expansion of the third floor will increase the presence in some ways maybe not straight on from the river but I in talking with the DNR that was their take on the expansion [1:04:46] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: so why don’t we get to have a take on it you know what I mean like I feel like if they could have you know it’s up for interpretation and to me I would say that’s that’s not a true statement [1:04:46] **Sara Taylor**: Vladimir you absolutely do and that’s why we’re here to have this discussion or consideration of the application so I mean the two houses next to them one was built in 2020 was that what I read in your letter that thing’s huge like how does I mean would they buy a 1200 square foot house three years ago because they went this way because there’s only two stories in it yeah I mean that that to me is what it is yeah there’s no three-story buildings on this entire river that [1:05:33] I mean there’s got to be three-story buildings [1:05:33] **Sara Taylor**: council member of Gilmore it’s the three story two is subjective it’s 35 feet 35 feet the maximum point so whether that’s three small structures or two major expansive you know vaulted ceilings over 35 feet 35 feet is the maximum but they’re not proposing that the recent they’re not proposing that no um but the recent construction of the other homes adjacent do comply with that and this one would comply with it as well correct yes [1:06:18] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: I’m having a hard time leaning the other way but how do you get are you guys well feeling [1:06:18] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: I still feel the same way but okay yet I feel like [1:06:18] I think we need to step back and not hurry I mean well I just want to make sure you guys are in a hurry but and I agree because I feel like to me looking at it doesn’t really change what I would see from the river personally um but I also want to make sure we’re doing it right so we don’t end up into any because I know in the past when I’ve been on it there’s been a couple times where you have yes we did take our attorney so I think what we need to do I think is maybe take a step back sit down find these things that we need yeah [1:07:04] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: I just wanted to make sure that I couldn’t be convinced otherwise at this meeting and it wasn’t worth it so I can weigh in on feeling that way the requirement of [1:07:04] this variants to make this addition [1:07:04] **City Attorney Benson**: so under your ordinance it says that um an extension enlargement or alteration of an existing substandard structure sanitary facility may be permitted on the side of the structure or facing facility facing away from the river inner Bluff line which is why there was a requirement for the expansion of the north Edition and here we have substandard structures which do not meet the bluff land and or Shoreland setbacks shall not be raised in elevation or roof line except in flood plain areas and then only to protect the structure so here we have our roofline elevating okay but what if this is still under the 35 though which is yeah but the roof line is being elevated in a substandard structure [1:07:52] not it depends on how you interpret that I don’t feel like the roof line itself is being elevated because the roof itself is already that high okay what if they the roof above the second floor is being elevated but the roof above the back is not it’s but we’re talking about the roof above the second floor yeah it just seems like we’re just nitpicking about so this is how the zoning administrator which which one of you is the zoning administrator okay Sarah so your zoning administrator who does your Zoning for your city has made this finding and she is responsible for the enforcement of the ordinance and your City attorney along with case law and the DNR agreed that a variance is required under this ordinance so what’s really important right now is [1:08:39] that this whether you’re going to Grant a variance or not Amendment yes Simon um so totally agree with um attorney Benson uh so what we really have to sit down is to if you’re if you’re gonna potentially pass the variance and allow this expansion we need to come up with the three factors that are criteria for the variance they have to be met in order to justify allowing the variance so however you come up with those three factors that works for the City attorney that works [1:09:26] for us as long as those factors are met [1:09:26] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay so do we have a motion and then and we can table it if can I have can I just ask another question do you want do you have questions for the just persons or maybe they just have something they want do you want to come up and say something yes for sure sorry I thought uh [1:10:05] actually good luck well let’s see um you guys [1:10:05] **Nathan Jesperson**: my name is Nathan jesperson this is my wife Sarah hello thanks for coming thank you thank you for taking time to just Maul this one over obviously it is uh obviously it’s it’s complex in a lot of ways and you guys are are kind of going through the same things that that we’ve gone through Etc and I want to just I mean what I love about Sarah is that she’s been like perfectly agnostic throughout this whole thing and I think it’s great I think it’s the right thing and I’ve appreciated it makes it harder but [1:10:50] that’s part of what we do here right gotta get the right information and um and I don’t I I’m I want to just share that I also have read this ordinance and I’m trying to you know do all the dancing and trying to figure out what it’s actually saying and it is hard it’s really hard to get around it um and so I I’ve not ever come to this uh the planet commission meeting in this one to really argue that fact um or try to argue the ordinance because it is just challenging it’s very interpretive I’m trying to argue this intent piece as well because it just um it’s just odd and frankly um when we came in to this to this house [1:11:36] you know we we thought there was a lot of things that we couldn’t do we knew that going forward was going to be a problem I think we thought about could we try to get a deck on there probably not going to happen right like Realtors warned us about that um but and of all the things that we didn’t think we would be an issue was that third floor like we just thought well and Realtors told us that in our first meeting with Sarah we sat down and Sarah also said that we could build that that wasn’t going to be a problem um and it was and we went and designed this and and later had to have the Dear John meeting with Sarah to say um yeah it was sorry um this was the mistake uh we we [1:12:22] actually can’t so I think there was I think that all you guys are thinking very similarly most of us thought we can do this um and I think the reason for wanting to come forward because it just felt it felt worth it to try to to try to see if we could fight it um so I think the the couple points that I just want to add to while you guys are considering it I mean I would love for you guys to make a decision um and so mostly so we could move forward and you know start building this um but I also want to make sure that we make the right decision you know that you do the due diligence so um my my question is is can we and my first question is if we can get the right information here can we make a decision with some contingencies [1:13:09] on that decision some of these um you know the findings the fact I don’t know that you can because the finding effect is part of the decision right but I don’t know if there’s a way that we can make a decision and move forward and say hey but we have to get some of these other pieces in place uh just so that we can start working towards a solution um instead of debating we’ve been doing this now for for five months I think um so I just the idea of moving another three months and having to take in uh all of your time to to sort of try to figure out whether we’re going to do this or not um is there a way to move forward sounds like it it’s like we just have to get our ducks in a row [1:13:56] oh uh yeah so I’ll pop this up here so you guys can just see I think you’ve seen all these photos already but um you know you’ve seen the house you’ve seen the the two side by side I did work with uh Sarah on a lateral design and and to be fair with you guys a lateral design would be it would be amazing we could get everything we want we love this house that we have and we absolutely actually want to back this up to see we really love the house that we’re in it is designed very oddly but it is um it’s actually got a lot of nice features to it which is what’s made it kind of hard to be like okay um you know do we knock this whole thing down and just and just build it [1:14:42] laterally and um and do kind of like what the the person did to the left of us you know just here in 2020. um but it is there’s it it is a lot of wasted uh materials wasted time uh building a whole new house knocking it down us living somewhere else I mean there’s just a lot that goes with it I know those don’t fall into the three factors um but those are those are the part of our considerations the cost is certainly a consideration again not one of the factors but um building sideways we can do but we also don’t really feel like that’s necessary but you can see here what we are allowed to do this is just a rendering that we put together um and we we worked it up a little bit differently because in our last meeting [1:15:29] we just took our current house and we’ve widened it this one we used uh used some design based on the house that we’re looking at building yours is the Min the middle one the middle one uh yeah horizontal so if we took our 35 feet which if you guys kind of look here this house I’m gonna go back so you can kind of see how the houses are positioned this house right here this new one and I’m going to reference back here that’s this house okay you can see that is also in the 100 foot setback line and it’s right about here uh this house is also inside the 100 foot set book setback line so you can kind of get an idea of where their position if we moved our house back to that hundred foot setback which is right [1:16:15] there um so this roof line this this chimney right here is around that 35 foot height right so we kind of matched up about where we could go with that house if we did and about where we can go in with um with that option and again this kind of goes back to like what’s the point of the what’s the point of the ordinance um it you know certainly we don’t need to build this kind of house but you can see that obviously the impact of the river Riverway is considerably different yes that’s what’s insane about the whole thing you could build that and it’d be way worse that’s legal but yeah you [1:17:00] [1:17:00] **Sarah Jesperson**: can’t really prove the rules you’re asking because it’s going to be very difficult but the intent is very clear between the two and so we could argue for forever but I think the DNR has made a strong point that won’t preserve that River and we do too we like the minimal that’s important to us and so it’s really hard if we can you know I don’t want him to hit his head every day is it inconvenient yes can we live with it sure it you know it’s one of those things we didn’t think we’d have to but we could but it’s going to be to be able to prove those three things that you need I don’t know if it’s possible but the intent I don’t know if the DNR looked at these two side by side [1:18:33] **Nathan Jesperson**: actually I had a conversation with the um Dan at the DNR before the Planning Commission meeting he’s I you know I don’t think he got to see it visually so when I got on the phone with him we reviewed it together and you know he was stumbling over his words that’s the best way I can say he was just like well you know like and so I can’t give interpretive you know reasons for how he would feel about it because he didn’t say yes go ahead and and build we’d rather see this versus that um he came back to the law once again but he was also just very like yeah I guess I’d rather not see any house from the Riverway that’s really what my goal is and uh I’m like of course you’d [1:18:33] rather not see any house but there it is um so could you guys answer Connie’s original question I think was what does the third floor look like or how how useful is it right [1:18:33] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: well I guess I was going to question the attorney well I wanted to know because to me it didn’t look like it was um level um yeah whatever but so they could by the law and I’m not it I’ll tell you but I just want in my mind they by the law as they could go up so take this rough this stuff and squared off like that as long as they what is she showing I’m showing her I’m showing her this picture because in my mind what you’re saying is [1:19:18] they can’t go forward they can’t go up because they’re going forward because the up would be within the setback going up even in this existing stuff is going up where you’re pointing so she’s pointing at the that roof line that can go I don’t know well I don’t know what you’re it would have to be under what is it 35 feet whatever your structural height requirement is can we speak in words instead of pointing just so okay okay so I’ve got the old picture and what I’m just asking her is is it one of these no no it’s the it’s the side by side yeah okay she’s looking at the third floor roof line and the second floor of roof line as existing okay right and so I said because that third floor kind of bends [1:20:05] down towards the right in the front and not that you’d want to do it this way but I’m just saying what you how I was understanding what you were saying is because the third floor they want to move forward that’s not because vertically it’s within the 100 foot setback it’s about right it’s about right here just I think the 100 foot setback is okay so what I’m saying is though they could still go up to 30 not that you’re doing this I’m just trying to argue the point you couldn’t even raise that to go that roof line isn’t that and I’m not sure what the height is at right now as far as your butt I want to focus us again it’s we need you guys to make findings of fact well I [1:20:52] get that I just wanted to understand and we’re not allowed to consider other reasonable uses of the property so if you’re saying like well technically they could go higher instead of out because then you know he wouldn’t pump his head we can’t consider that as an option as a reasonableness that’s because it’s not um reasonable in as they could use their property in comparison so another one example was um there was discussion about the option to at the Planning Commission to just to add on above their garage and while they have that reasonable option but while that might be an opinion that is not a legal grounds meaning that is unreasonable for them to raise the second floor roofline so just because they can use their property at other [1:21:37] reasonable ways cannot be part of your consideration and findings of fact for whether this variance should be approved it works in both ways it’s favorable to them because you can’t say well you could build out over your garage so we’re denying it so it’s favorable to them to that extent but it’s to the same extent you can’t say like well we’re not going to Grant it because you can’t do this so I I have a question really just because there obviously there’s workarounds for this and I’m wondering what creates the work around I and I just put up a picture here of the these are all seven homes on on the street and you can see that six of the seven homes are in the 100 foot setback right so this uh the one that’s got the [1:22:25] yellow that’s ours so the one um right to the right of me was built in 2020 and it was built in the 100 foot setback um within the 100 foot setback at whatever height it could it wanted to go the uh two more three more houses down there was um Susan senor’s house right there second to the far uh right that one was built in 2007 or eight and that’s got it’s mostly in the 100 foot setback and I and I know that we’ve said that this goes back to this 2002 negotiation but what there was a negotiation right so what was the re what was the [1:23:11] um I know that we can’t just reverse back but like what made it so that the DNR was okay with so from my understanding is they didn’t want to make people change their properties too much as they were in 2002 and so the DNR was flexible and understanding that their houses were being literally flooded down every year so they said hey you can just raise it up we’re gonna allow you guys the variances to keep your structures as is and those variances stand with the property I can’t speak to the specific circumstances of those houses um because I don’t know them and unfortunately we can’t consider necessarily um while the council has the option to consider the essential character of the surrounding houses we can’t consider [1:23:58] I can’t provide legal advice as to the legality of the variances that the other properties May or not have yeah a clarifier you said the variant stays with the property is that only until a new homeowner advisor technically that property is overall yeah I don’t know the answer to that off the top of my head that’s a very specific question because if it stays with the property it should still allow us to so the variance that was granted was for allowing the which is why you have a third floor house was allowing that to extend up and giving you guys some more extra space to be able to have the same amount of property or the previous owners as they previously had but without the basement so that they don’t have to have their house washed out within 100 [1:24:44] stay with the home for well I don’t know I don’t know off the top of my head about how variances apply as far as reconstruction all of that stuff variances are very specific to the property which is why they can really only be granted in very specific situations still sits with the property I I’m sorry but I would think it has to stay with the property we really need to focus on what yeah like so we have an agenda and it’s important to stick to that agenda item and the staff has requested discussion on the three factors to support future findings at your next meeting okay [1:25:30] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: I’m gonna make a motion to table this resolution I think we’re is that [1:25:30] what the motion you can do that now and then discuss is that fine so did you make a motion to approve no email so we need a motion to approve that’s what I thought but sorry or do you want to just table the agenda item so they would have two options okay right so they can table it or they can make a motion to approve and then okay table it well right so motion to table this agenda item is what you think okay do we have a second well I’ll second it just because okay so Connie has a second at it and now we have discussion well I think we’ve had enough discussion okay that’s something they want to say I think let’s talk about it again when [1:26:15] we’re when we can and I’m sorry that we couldn’t make a decision tonight I thought we would be able to what wait I just need to know more about why like these they can’t go over it but other houses can go over it and why can the other houses go over the hundred and be right on so that can’t be legal considerations for granting this family no but I think so but they got approved right to build that close to the water but that can’t be oh the courts would not wondering how I can how they can how we can make it to get approved so look at these somewhere else four factors that’s what we need let’s talk about it at when we can later is that all right [1:27:00] **Sara Taylor**: I suggest we continue [1:27:00] discussion possibly even at a workshop to have some more candy that would be helpful in advance yeah um you can provide additional information um based on some of the questions that were brought up this evening I don’t see how night we’re going to be able to come to a conclusion establish those findings yeah he didn’t think it was especially with some of the outstanding questions and information that you probably would benefit from hearing okay all right so we still have to vote on the motion right yes and is that a roll call then if they’re just a table it might as well just say yep uh council member Carlson [1:27:00] **Councilmember John Carlson**: aye [1:27:00] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member doll [1:27:00] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: aye [1:27:00] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member Gilmer [1:27:00] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: aye [1:27:00] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: council member Hill [1:27:46] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: aye [1:27:46] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: mayor Hampton aye All Eyes motion is table then tell um future meeting okay can we next meeting can we do next meeting we well it will have to be next meeting due to timeline yeah do we need to meet before the next meeting to have the understanding of it or we’re going to Workshop do the workshop on this and mayor um we have enough time to continue it to the next regular meeting but we can discuss if we’d like to schedule a supplemental Workshop potentially between now and it would be March 6th well it sounds like we need to in order to make sure we can for them could we could I request uh can we request an approval of the north [1:28:32] elevator [1:28:32] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: you got we did that that’s already good yeah all right I just want to make sure that check that one all right so I just have a question about like can we start working on the North elevation piece if we wanted to I don’t see why not is it possible to move forward I don’t know elements here how is the application received should we look into it and get back we can look into it is complicated because the application is together includes those two pieces too because there was two together um but we couldn’t separate we can talk about that I mean there might be some preliminary work you could get started on in the meantime assuming that that’s yeah I just I hesitate to say that because I don’t want you to invest more time and effort in a design plan if the [1:29:19] third floor expansion does not come to fruition and the council is unable to identify findings to support the approval for that it seems like the design concept you have going on is dependent upon that third floor expansion so yeah well um there’s a lot of work that’s going to happen on the inside of the house so we want to like if we were able to get granted at least moving forward the stairwell’s part of that that structure that allows the contractors to go up and down so um we might be able to Workshop a way of building that without actually finalizing the structure if that’s possible we can talk offline all right okay thank you guys yeah I mean yeah again thank you sorry all right [1:30:04] **Matt Kline**: so now we’re gonna consider a resolution proclaiming Nomo May for 2023 Madam mayor members of the council over the past several years there’s been multiple city council members and residents that have been interested in the city essentially promoting Nomo May um essentially it calls for not mowing your lawn during the month of May it’s primarily for honeybees which use the habitat and forage and early season polleners that as a food source um so other benefits uh also include deeply decreased lawn irrigation [1:30:51] um and potentially a fertilizer a decrease in the need of fertilizer to support this effort the city would temporarily suspend the enforcement of the ordinance that requires grass to be maintained at a six inch level Property Owners would choose to participate in the program on a volunteer basis the city would suggest that um that a sign be put in their yard and that residence would be required to register with the city at no cost so that we have a running list of participants essentially mostly for um enforcement any enforcement issues or any questions that come in on a complaint about a certain property [1:31:40] um the program would definitely be highlighted in the newsletter websites and any other social media um at this time the recommendation is that staff recommends the city council adaptive resolution proclaiming Nomo May for the month of May 2023. stand for questions on it [1:31:56] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: um glad we’re finally able to do that this year because it was too late last year um do we know do other cities typically have people register it I mean it makes sense I guess I just wanna if they don’t register and then someone complains what happens yeah that’s an excellent question um probably not a lot we it’s nice to identify the property owners that are registered so that we can just look on the list and say nope they’re utilizing no more may um the sign thing would be the other highlight if they have a sign in their yard so people know that they’re participating in that not just leaving [1:32:43] their grass grow given the short time period I doubt that there would be any ramifications of somebody not registering okay right anyone have any questions or comments does anyone want to make a motion [1:32:43] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: I’ll make a motion that’s all right yeah yeah to Proclaim no Mommy [1:32:43] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: a second all right thanks Connie and Katie so now we need a roll call vote oh that’s you Matt [1:32:43] **Matt Kline**: council member Hill [1:32:43] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: aye [1:32:43] **Matt Kline**: council member Gilmore [1:32:43] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: aye [1:32:43] **Matt Kline**: council member doll [1:32:43] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: aye [1:32:43] **Matt Kline**: council member Carlson [1:33:28] **Councilmember John Carlson**: aye [1:33:28] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: mayor Hansen aye All Eyes motion passes all right thank you all right so city council liaison reports I already talked about the Planning Commission and um oh my gosh I don’t remember um the king plant is going to have a meeting later this month it’s it’s a online meeting on the 23rd of February and it sounds like John may also try to attend virtually um uh the oh my God I should have looked these up I got some other meetings this month and I’m I’m also going to go to the elected leaders Institute that the league of Minnesota cities is doing on [1:34:15] um February 24th and 25th for I did the intro one and I’m doing the advanced one now that I’m here for 12 years what did they call it isn’t it called the dance leadership or something yeah right so um let’s see Ethan did you guys did the cable commission [1:34:15] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: we did not meet [1:34:15] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: okay do you have any other ones now or is that your nope I’m in the background that’s your back okay all right how about you Connie Library [1:35:02] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: yeah the library board Matt um and Jill announced that the we were going to be getting a e-rate funding I don’t quite understand a what e-rate refund or fund from the county in about [1:35:02] twelve hundred dollars hey didn’t quite understand but anyway we’re getting a refund so she was excited about that um and she’s hoping to have three days of programs at the farmers market this summer yeah to the library so she was excited and the biggest thing was the project should hopefully be completed by the 17th and then they’ll receive their certificate of occupancy so she’s you know we got to go over after the meeting they had a little tour over there um they did have to do a couple change of orders one I guess there’s a new thing with the exit signs now they are not to be Reds they’re green or yeah so they had [1:35:48] to is it for color blindness or something no I think it’s because red usually means well for people oh it means like stop stop so they had to upgrade or do something so there was a an interesting change of orders for eleven hundred dollars and then the ceiling tiles there was another change of order good thing you have the 1200 or whatever yeah I know and but they still have a balance in their contingency funds which was good not worried and then um the website she was hoping would be up and fully working by February 1st but I don’t know I didn’t check it there was some glitches anyway and that was oh and then we welcomed the new member Janelle [1:36:35] um great to the meeting a lot of stuff going on we will be meeting this two weeks I guess okay [1:36:35] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: hopefully at the library yeah she did mention that if any of us were interested in a library tour that we could set that up I would like to see it so since I was part of the advisory committee I don’t know if anyone else is interested we could pick a date and see who could come and maybe she might have to do a couple if we all can’t go at the same time she should be open to Heaven okay all right I’m interested yeah me too I I told Matt to make a note to remind me but I remembered yeah okay all right so a lot of us are interested so let’s set something up um and then let’s see John [1:37:23] um middle Saint Croix watershed [1:37:23] **Councilmember John Carlson**: Matt last month it was it’s always such a long time because it’s the Thursday after my meeting yeah it’s written down here but um I could not find them but it was mostly procedural budget stuff and the only thing it’s specifically that I recall for Bayport was our our first half contribution so expect that if you’ve not seen that um just our we contribute to that organization twice a year gotcha so but nothing real specific to Bayport okay and you don’t have any other no that is it for my liaison appointments this week [1:38:10] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right Katie [1:38:10] can you remember what happened to be Cal [1:38:10] **Councilmember Katie Hill**: decal they uh sworn in new officers and they’re working on getting new insurance maybe looking into getting different Insurance maybe adding things like they’re adding the egg um yeah the egg hunt up at barkers because that wasn’t in the insurance so that’s going to be added and then they found the Bayonne for Derby days too we decided last year we got to get the band in James yeah no it’s um don’t give people exciting things junk FM hopefully it’s who um just for [1:38:56] maya I’m always curious and I appreciate everybody that volunteers on beak out for all the amazing things they do for the city who is on there it’s always helpful and kind of give them a shout out Mary from the city she’s on there and um we have Sarah and Sarah they’re doing the coal president together Sarah desiel and Sarah Schroeder are the co-presidents vice president is Mary Treasurer is Ginny and Megan and also Megan they’re co-treasuring Megan um Frye and secretary is Kathy ritzer which also means Joe because they do pretty much everything together so yeah so yeah they have a great group on the board yeah yeah and then there’s other [1:39:43] members too of course so that’s just the board and now um Mary tickner’s from Woody’s has joined and she’s taking over the bar crawl leading that and that was one of the insurance issues that we were having so hopefully we will work through all of that but we’re also still looking to see if there’s a way for the B Cal events to be part of this city insurance so we haven’t given up on that Matt yeah okay all right the immediate past president of B Cal has yeah has stuff to say [1:39:43] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right um staff reports I guess are next right um officer Cornell would you like to give PD report I’m just kidding thanks for coming though in this place um assistant administrator Taylor [1:40:29] **Sara Taylor**: the winter edition of the city’s e-newsletter Bayport brief was distributed this week week or actually it was last week um or two weeks ago I guess I wrote this memo a while ago features include upcoming events Library grand reopening snowmobile regulations the American Legion Centennial Pavilion donation snow removal and parking tips and a new 20 mile per hour speed limit reminder on city streets residents can subscribe to receive the e-newsletter and other City notices on the city’s website by searching notify me um the city recently received a formal annexation petition and concept [1:41:14] development plan for approximately 26 acres of land located on Stagecoach Trail just north of inspiration and that’s in Baytown the concept plan proposed is a residential plan unit development consisting of 50 single-family Lots with 55 percent of the development dedicated as open space so we have a joint city council and Planning Commission meeting scheduled for February 27th to discuss this proposal the next meeting of the Excel Energy stakeholder group has been scheduled for February 23rd as mentioned by mayor Hansen um also jointly you know I’m just thinking here as a result of our conversation of the variance request this evening February [1:42:00] 27th with the joint plenty commission city council Workshop already scheduled a 4 pm workshop with the council to discuss variances in general and specifically that application might be a good use of time so I’ll follow up on that since we’ll already be together that evening let me make that work what sir what care what’s the current time right now for that meeting five o’clock is the joint meeting perhaps we can meet at four o’clock prior to that right I’ll solicit availability and follow-up on that Monday the 27th is that what you’re asking anything yeah um other than that I’ve been working with Matt wrapping up some of the outstanding tasks and to work on ongoing projects some of the more important items include the fire service agreement which we discussed at the workshop renewal the [1:42:46] lease with the Department of Corrections for the old fire hall and that will be coming forward in March developing a request for proposals for a financial management plan and utility rate analysis study and then the other was pursuing quotes for the appraisal for the land and wire Legacy project we met about at the workshop tonight of that I stand for questions [1:42:46] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: thanks Sarah you’re welcome all right so do we have a public works update then Matt [1:43:33] **Matt Kline**: is a council I can provide a public person if you want absolutely um Public Works has been busy uh primarily removing snow [1:43:33] um from boulevards and Alley entrances um and has been met our residents have been very receptive um not necessarily because we’re doing it for them but to provide better sight lines widen roads and allow for future snow storage if more snow comes hopefully not but always possible um it does look like the oncoming weather that we’re going to have here in the next week will likely put an end to the ice rinks unfortunately even if it does get cold it’s likely with the rising sun and the warmer temperatures unfortunately even if it does get cold here in a couple weeks that The Rinks won’t be feasible so if you’re going to go skate I would definitely skate in the [1:44:18] next couple of days the uh elementary students have been skating last week and they do skate this week and there is all kinds of them out there and we’re always happy to see that it’s getting good but to good use we always have great participation on the ranks so it’s definitely a great City Humanity um one of the other Public Works items is that I think I’ve brought this up before but the the state bid process was unable to acquire City trucks for us so now we are needing to purchase one on the open market essentially and it is going to cost us slightly more rough estimates are about sixty thousand [1:45:05] dollars the Ford that was picked out on the state bid price was about fifty six thousand fifty seven thousand so I don’t need any motion the city administrator does have the authority to increase that as long as it’s not over a certain amount so we’ll be doing that and we actually have found one available it looks like you haven’t set up any home kit accessories okay Connie’s getting used to her iPad we have what we have found one available so um we will be purchasing that probably here in the next couple weeks um as far as the other items on my list they recovered most of them the financial management plan the old fire hall is um I do want to thank City Staff All City staff in fact fire department PD [1:45:53] admin and Public Works they’ve made the transition to inturn uh City administrator pretty seamless and have definitely taken up some of the slack of me trying to accomplish two jobs stand for questions [1:45:53] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: thank you Matt it’s been going exceptionally well so I appreciate it and I’m sure everybody else does too and thank you Sarah I’m sure you’re doing a little bit to help him so it’s all a great transition so I think does anyone have any um other announcements or things they want to talk about or have we been here long enough since four o’clock all right [1:46:39] do we have a motion to adjourn [1:46:39] **Councilmember Connie Doll**: I’ll make a motion to a journey [1:46:39] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right it’s Connie a second [1:46:39] **Deputy Mayor Ethan Gilmore**: thank you Ethan [1:46:39] **Mayor Michele Hanson**: all right uh all those in favor say hi hi you want to post okay we did it meeting number two ever have any volume on it