really nice it is 506 and we are recording all right uh we'll call this planning or work session uh for the planning commission uh january 6 to order and roll call commissioner jacobs here we have commissioner um [Music] i'm sorry all right commissioner brandman here commissioner lanternman here commissioner shellac here and commissioner van 90 and the 90. all right everybody is in attendance um and we will have our work session item a staff presentation thank you mr chair so we will just dive right into a powerpoint i prepared to go over planning basics there we go um so next slide so we'll start from the very beginning the historical basis for planning actually stems from the black plague in europe during this time a quarter of the population was lost due to dank and crowded living conditions that were a direct result of how the city and buildings were built as it contributed to indiscriminate spread of the plague so as a result england implemented rules that all living units needed access to light and air and as well as animals being separated from human living spaces so this is the first time that we see some kind of government regulation that determines how we're going to build and it also was the first time that we're seeing some kind of separation of uses another significant historical event was the industrial revolution during this time residential spaces were intermixed with industrial spaces people started to become very sick and died as a result of the air pollution and so as a as a solution we started zoning to keep residential uses separated from industry so in the u.s we have a constitutional we have a constitutional basis for planning the u.s constitution grant states the general right for police powers meaning the ability to limit an individual's rights for the interest of the community key constitutional principles that come up during planning are due process so we have substantial due process meaning we need as a government need to have a rational basis for our regulations and then we have procedural due process meaning we need to follow a prescribed process this is where our public notices our public hearings come into play we also have to be mindful of equal protection basically you want to treat everyone the same especially when we're talking about the same zoning district we can't favor one business over another we can't favor one property over another we can regulate what kind of uses go into a district but among those uses we can't favor one over the other if it's the same class and then we also have the concept of takings the taking of property for public use requires just compensation we have a few notable exceptions that come up such as required dedication of a public right-of-way or road and this is allowed generally because it's a basic requirement to serve properties within a subdivision we also are allowed to take parks and park dedication within a subdivision because it applies to everyone equally zoning regulations that are not supported by rationale are not and are found to be unnecessary can become a taking so a front yard setback of 100 feet that has no basis no record of fact that could be found to be a taking especially compared to a general setback that of 20 to 30 feet which you generally still see so you want to make sure you have a rational basis for zoning regulations and that you're treating people fairly reasonably and equally without putting a burden on property owners beyond the government interest so then just a quick timeline for um basically how we got to where we are today the first land uses were um established as public health laws in england prior to 1916 we depended on we were dependent on nuisance laws to protect the public health safety and welfare in 1916 you start to see the establish of early establishment of early zoning laws and around this time new york city was the first city to adopt a comprehensive zoning ordinance in 1922 you see the first version of the standard state zoning enabling act 1923 by 1923 208 us communities had adopted a zoning ordinance and in 1926 i'm going this is a big hint for our jeopardy game later in 1926 the u.s supreme court upheld the use of zoning as a police power in the case village of euclid versus ambler realty what was the what was the gist of the case um you know i don't know that off the top of my head i believe um i have it in my notes somewhere but i just simply don't have it on the top i mean you got the village of euclid which i assume would be like the city of corcoran versus ambler realty which might be a developer yeah so it's probably trying to say that we didn't have the pol he didn't as a government unit didn't have the right to zone and the u.s supreme court upheld our right to zone as a as a state and usually states have enabling legislation that delegates this power to cities okay but use of zoning as a police power so now the mayor just sent us the proposed legislation that is being comp you know looked at in our state government and i questioned then did this case say that it was the government i mean so i look at it is will we see another case then whereby the question is does the met council have the police power in regulating zoning that would supersede that of the city of corcoran itself nominal question so mr chair i um i understand that's a very i couldn't tell you what the ruling would be on something like that um and i do want to add we do have a part in the agenda for questions we have a very limited time and this is a 45 minute no i i get that i don't at the same time i know basically the gist is police powers is what gives us the ability to zone and the state is able to delegate that process and this was upheld in this case okay all i can say is alex trebek would have known the answer i am not alex good question so then why do we plan the planning process it helps us evaluate as a community our past as well as provide a vision for our future through planning we can anticipate how to protect our character our resources drive economic development provide cost-effective services participate in intergovernmental cooperation and coordination and then balance community interests with private rights then the enabling legislation as i was talking about the state delegates the police power for zoning two local government units and there are a few minnesota statutes that provide this the ones most applicable to us are the first two listed here because we are within the metropolitan area and i think that goes to the met council and then the minnesota statute that gives it to all municipalities the next slide so our comprehensive plan our zoning ordinance and our subdivision ordinance comprise what we call our guiding documents these are the enabling legislation in minnesota requires that our planning process begins with an analysis of community needs and goals that are used to formulate a comprehensive plan a comprehensive plan does not necessarily need to be 500 pages some smaller communities have maybe just a couple pages but as the city becomes more complicated and has more vision it these documents can get very large a comprehensive plan will then act as the guiding policy for our community development the zoning ordinance and other land use regulations and our zoning ordinance and subdivision ordinance are tools to implement our comp plan so the supportive rationale of the zoning ordinance should be provided by the information within our comprehensive plan and then regulations must be a reasonable means to meet legal ends or the governmental interests so our zoning ordinance specifically regulates our private property by establishing standards of development for individual lots the use of land and buildings within our community this works closely and in conjunction with our zoning map we use the zoning ordnance to determine and classify different uses so we have allowed uses which are by right there really is no questions asked conditions cannot be applied if it is allowed use and then we have accessory use these uses can typically be allowed sometimes a conditional use permit might be might be required but what makes them accessory is they cannot exist by themselves they have to have a principal use first before an accessory use could be allowed can i could i ask you to repeat something you said buy right and then you went on from there can you yes so allowed by rightly allowed by right is basically how we say uh single-family home is allowed by right we don't have any there's no conditions we can apply they are allowed by right to do that okay so then there's no discretion there's nothing it's by right correct i ask for it and i'm asking because that's going to be an issue in our meeting later on so i'm just looking for some clarification so by by right means there's no oversight no discretion that the city council can claim it's yeah right you you get it no matter what as just as a matter of law if it meets our standards then yes it is by right allowed okay thank you yep and a conditional use is still an allowed use however we anticipate that there will be additional stipulations that may need to be added to ensure it is uh compatible with the surrounding area so there is some discretion with this and there's a later slide that talks about some of our discretionability and then interim is uses are similar to condition they can be approved for a limited amount of time so it's supposed to be a temporary use finally our zoning ordinance also provides bulk and area regulations this is where you'll see the height limits setbacks and other other caveats such as lock coverage or imperfe's service limits next slide our subdivision ordinance ensures new development and redevelopment meets standards for a safe functional and enjoyable community it establishes the procedures for land division that is consistent with our comprehensive plan subdivision in its broadest meaning is basically the division of a parcel of land so you it could be a division into two parcels it could be a division into 40 parcels generally you will see a plat as a result of a subdivision although there are some exceptions to this such as technically a minor subdivision or the state does have a process where a large enough parcel can be split into two without having any overview from the city next slide and then we have the role of planning staff and we'll also discuss all of our roles so my role as your staff planner is to interpret and administer our land use regulations as they are written in city code today i review and coordinate review of land use applications and when i say coordinate that means i'm i'm working with the applicant i'm working with public works the city attorney and as well as our planning consulting to kendra and landform we i regularly meet with developers property owners and residents to discuss ongoing projects as well as how the code may apply to their own projects i prepare staff reports to inform and advise you as well as the city council research planning and land use issues i work on long-range plans and special projects one specifically right now is the northeast district corridor planning i maintain city records and there are state laws that i have to abide by with the city records so that is a huge part of my role and i provide continuity in terms of consistency as well as institutional knowledge that i'm able to use when i educate and assist in the public and another way to look at is i'm the voice of planning at city hall next slide and then we have the role of planning consultants which is kendra and lan form at this time very similar role to planning staff she's able to do basically everything that i do if not more because she also can provide services that the city may not have easy access to such as additional staffing at a moment's notice and software that we don't have access to so but one important caveat is she does serve at the pleasure and direction of city council while working closely to coordinate land use items with city staff and this informs the recommendation to council what software don't you have access to several um we have to hold questions to others oh i'm sorry presentation but there's several there's several pieces of software i don't have access to at this time that is not financially feasible at this time anyways they do provide their professional advice and insight based on experience with working for other cities as well as developers and the city of corcoran does not allow our planning consultant or firm to submit a land use application on behalf of a developer for a property within corcoran this is not true of all cities but it is a specific exclusion in her contract at this time and then we have the role of you guys the planning commission so the planning commission is created based on the presumption that residents are in the best position to objectively review land use requests and recommend regulations you mostly act as a quasi-judicial body making recommendations to counsel interpreting and applying the ordinances however you do have some legislation legislative role as well when we're recommending zoning ordinance changes for example the planning commissioners are expected to interpret and apply written codes and ordinances and remain as objective as possible this is a pyramid of discretion i mentioned earlier if you start at the bottom with the green the most discretion we have as the planning commission as the city is within the comprehensive plan and our zoning and subdivision ordinances we don't have complete discretion as there are times where city i'm sorry county or state law does have some guidelines or not guidelines but regulations that we have to follow or meet minimum standards but this is where we do have the most ability to create what it is that we want in our community and then when we get into applications such as subdivision applications conditional use permits and variances we do still have discretion however we're mostly applying what we've established in our guiding policies i would actually say variances are somewhere between the green and the yellow because the city is not obligated to approve variances the applicant does have the burden of proof that they have some kind of hardship but generally speaking as a city we've have been sympathetic to property owners who are looking to get some kind of relief from the zoning code conditional use permits generally we do have some discretion especially in applying different conditions or saying that it simply doesn't fit within a given area the least amount of discretion we have is within our site plan reviews which is something the planning commission does see i'm sorry the city council does see okay and then the building permits which are administered by staff these simply are if they meet the standards they must be approved can i ask just one question on that pyramid so when it comes to the the bottom one the comprehensive plan in that we are specifically talking about the 500 page 10 000 document we give as a requirement to the to the met council is that exactly what we're talking about or if if the admit council didn't exist and we had no requirement to submit a massive document to somebody what would what would be in place of that it's still other cities that aren't in the metropolitan area still have a comprehensive plan for the enabling statute but it could be as simple as a few pages okay because i don't find that quite honestly and i've been through a number of them i we can always dream a lot but that comprehensive plan where we can create i'll give you that but everything that we do in there is pretty much dictated by the met council and again there are other densities our road plans our park plans our our lot sizes are everything is dictated by the met council so how how is that the the the biggest that is where we decide our own path that is where we have the most discretion it is not that we have complete discretion okay all right because we do have other rules to abide by but we could at one point have decided that we did not want sewer and water and that would have changed the density requirements if we didn't want any municipal services on the east what if we just said to the net council we wrote a letter because i don't know maybe someday i'll run for mayor and this will be my platform we just say you know we went out of the met council we don't want it did that and it didn't go very far well for them who did i'm sorry lake elmo we could talk separately at a different training session said the same thing we don't think we should have to provide sewer and water and it went to court and they do have a comp plan and they are providing sewer and water so the city can always do their own sewer and water no not in the seven county metro area and it's a complicated issue probably outside of tonight but certainly happy i'm sure to okay have natalie chat with you offline you know maybe we could offer to just set aside 25 percent of the project for green space well in green space it if it's qualifies it gets a tax exemption okay so i have 15 minutes and like 20 slides to go so i gotta get going i'm sorry the comprehensive plan amendment is an application type that will probably come in front of you at one point or another if it hasn't already for those that have been on the commission for a while um basically this is a request either from it might be staff driven i believe we had one actually with our southeast district when we were trying to correct some inconsistencies or it can be from a property owner within the city who wants to possibly re-guide their property but it's basically a change to our comprehensive plan amendment so that they can most likely rezone is kind of what i see it most common as so basically when you're looking at a comprehensive plan amendment application you'll want to consider criteria such as the consistency with the overall goals and objections of the comp plan the impact on public services such as roads and water supply the potential for resulting development to create an undue impact on nearby properties and then the development should fit the physical character of the neighborhood or improve the viability of the neighborhood it shouldn't be detrimental and then we have the zoning ordinance amendment there are two types we have map amendments which change the districts of a boundary and then we have text amendments which actually changes the land use regulations such as allowed uses or setbacks this is a legislative decision as is our comprehensive plan amendment process but with the zoning ordinance amendment it must be consistent with the comprehensive plan so we have to if it's inconsistent with the comprehensive plan we either deny it or we have to go back and amend our comprehensive plan and again it should not have a detrimental impact to the neighborhood the environment or our ability as a city to provide services so rezoning is basically another word to use for a land or for the the zoning map amendment the zoning ordinance amendment for maps and again we talked about the fact that you would have if it's inconsistent with our future land use map and our comprehensive plan then we have to go back and adjust that first before we could approve a rezoning request generally we may want to do this if we agree as a city that the location is appropriate and beneficial for the requested change in use we do want to avoid spot zoning as a city and this is kind of a hard concept to explain the idea is you don't want to zone a single piece of property out of context with its surroundings now you could have neighborhood commercial appropriately placed at the intersection of two major roads even if it's surrounded by residential what you would want to avoid is in the middle of a residential subdivision rezoning a single parcel to also allow for a commercial use such as a gas station that's probably the easiest way to explain it but it's definitely simplifying the situation most common application type at this point is our preliminary and final plats plats generally should be approved if they meet our minimum requirements but they can be conditioned on compliance with items contained in our guiding policies that are in place at the time of this middle of the application provisions of public improvements or financial guarantees and the satisfaction of objections or other regulations raised by other agencies with preliminary plat we're looking at a basically a proposal it's a little more flexible it's not the final plan it's just to show us what is existing what they would like to do it's a fairly final plan it's not something that they're taking lightly but there is room for some change this is where we have the public hearing and this is where the planning commission and city council review there is a 60-day review period that applies but this is the one application type where the city can extend and often does extend to 120 days for a significant discussion to go into these preliminary plans the final plot is where we're seeing the final the final proposal and if they really can't deviate from there without a significant coming back for a change in approval with the city with this one there is a 60-day review period it just it just goes to the city council some cities do that differently but in corcoran it goes to city council as required by state statute and we are not able to review the extend the review period without an extension request from the applicant for this type of application and then we have our site plan reviews this is simply a review of a proposed project's design on a single parcel in corcoran our city code requires site plan reviews for all developments other than agricultural uses or single and two family homes when you guys i have any interest in reviewing a site plan review then that would review elements that you would want to look at our consistency with comprehensive are guiding policies relationships to nearby uses the location and dimensions of buildings proposed grading and contours screening and landscaping utilities parking and access lighting and signage this a very helpful checklist even for myself in terms of what am i looking at what am i looking for these would be the elements that you would want to review it by conditional use permits are an anticipated and allowed use within the zoning ordinance but conditions may need to be added for compatibility common conditions such as buffers and screening can make the use more compatible but the use simply may not be appropriate in areas where these conditions can't be met so that's why the city has identified it as a conditional use so a with conceips we cannot attach a time limit once it is approved it runs with the land regardless of any change of ownership and the only way we can revoke the permit is if a condition of approval is violated and conditions must be reasonable and directly related to the use could i ask a very quick question i believe on the march 25th work session the pud ordinance was identified as the number one priority of city council is that still correct the march it was one of the top four priorities i believe i think was identified as the number one priority well they did set up a subcommittee that was supposed to start that immediately i do know i do recall that okay thank you so basically a cup should be approved when it is compatible with the existing neighborhood conforms with our comp plan does not present a danger to our public health safety and welfare as a community and meets all other applicable standards within our zoning code interim use permits are essentially a cup but with a sunset clause these are for temporary uses and we have some kind of trigger whether it be a specific date or event such as change of ownership that terminates the permit sometimes we sometimes we review things in terms of every couple years we in our quotes we have to review iups and it gets extended or a new owner can apply for the same permit and we'd probably approve it most likely and if there's no other changes in the district but there is some way for us to stop the use if we need to as a city move forward in a particular direction right now we allow iups commonly for conditional home occupation licenses accessory dwelling units and temporary living quarters as a few examples what's what is that like what's a conditional home occupation conditional home occupation licenses uh some working out of the home there's that we have we have allowed home occupations we have um special home occupations which might have like a customers are coming to the property yeah and conditional home occupation licenses there's there's some impact that's going to probably happen that we're trying to mitigate for it and you'll have to just so the accessory dwelling units now we just allowed one to be built and i drove by that thing i don't know a couple weeks ago so you telling me that and i don't recall this point specifically but i'm sure we talked about so accessory dwelling units are something that expire their interim use yes so and they expire what when graham and grandpa no longer cease to live there no so the the biggest example again it's all our iups we have to review every couple years to make sure they're meeting the conditions of approval um and so that would be potentially where it could get expired if they're not meeting the conditions such as an owner is not because with the accessory dwelling unit and the owner of the property has to live in one of the units so if we find that there um are two rental properties essentially then we could revoke that permit uh generally the specific event that would trigger some kind of expiration is selling the property okay but what what what does that mean so these two these people that built it so grandma grandpa no longer lived there they just said the owners decided to move to florida they would either you could yeah you got two homes on that lot so what do you how do you how do you expire an accessory dwelling unit you would need to you would need to demolish the building or the new property owner would need to come in immediately for some kind or prior to the sale or immediately afterwards to request that this be something that they can take over correct they need if they sell the property the new owner needs it and it was very clear in our sunset clauses mr chair but that's how it happens that's certainly something that we could look at but it is a sunset clause intentionally because if the owner moves the council wanted the ability to have the new require the new land owner to come in and get a permit they were not interested in rental property so we can talk about that specific one later but again i know natalie we are 10 minutes away and we have uh 11 slides left right okay so um an iup should be granted when the use conforms with our regulations the use is temporary in nature when we as a city will not incur additional costs as a result of the iup and the applicant agrees to all the conditions of approval so for a variance this is a zoning relief mechanism that approves a departure from the standard ordinance variance variances may be granted when a practical difficulty is shown but approval on the city's part is not required and it is important to keep in mind that economic considerations alone do not constitute a practical difficulty if the owner of the property can reasonably meet the zoning ordinance by spending additional money that is not a practical difficulty so use it is important to note that use variances are not allowed in minnesota meaning if in a residential district we have allowed uses such as homes we don't and let's say for this example we don't have any other allowed uses other than homes we can't grant a variance to all of a sudden allow a bakery within a residential district that doesn't have that as an approved use a variants may set a precedent in very very limited situations generally we say that they don't set a precedent because we have to look at the merits of each application and it's very rare that you're going to have a property that has the same set of facts applied theoretically a precedent can be set if the property does have similar facts and it is requested within the same time frame so within months of the original variance that was granted generally once time has passed the city would have some ability to say no we learned from that variance we don't want to grant it again or know we're a different council we don't want to grant this so it would it's very limited where a precedent could be established with the variance next slide criteria for review for the properties should be used in a reasonable manner there are circumstances unique to the property not caused by the land owner or the predecessor this is usually interpreted to include physical characteristics of the lot that create a constraint such as wetlands steep slopes or odd shapes the variants also should not alter essential character of the locality and as a commission you can recommend conditions to be applied in the event the variance is granted but these conditions must be directly related to the impact created by the variants plan unit development this is a rezoning request to review several buildings and or uses as a single unit the idea of the planned unit development is to promote creativity negotiation efficient use of land flexibility and a mix of land uses that may not otherwise be allowed this is seen as typically seen as useful when developers are looking at difficult sites with many natural resources as preserving those natural resources can be part of the benefits to the city as a pud should be providing benefits to the city not obtained through straight zoning another benefit that came up recently of planned unit developments is once it once a property or a group of properties are zoned as a pud the city retains a significant amount of discretion should that area ever be redeveloped because as a pud it would have to come back for approvals and we don't necessarily have that with straight zoning when you say the city retains authority retains discretion discretion on a pud so are you talking like you follow sun tavari it decides to fail and no so if tavares it down i mean what what would what would constitute a pud failure that the city that give me an example not really talking about a pu to failure but if a situation where a developer came in and basically bought several lots and wanted to redevelop these homes we would they would have to whether they're talking about a slightly different use slightly different group of use or slightly different design standards they would have to come into the city for any kind of approval this is a base it come in as a pud amendment and we've already seen that where we've had tavera come in for simply putting up a different type of sign they needed to come in for a pud amendment we retain a lot of discretion in how it gets developed going forward that we don't necessarily get with straight zoning thank you the procedure to recommend approval of a pud i know we got kind of hung up on this the last time it came in front of us i wanted to try to see if i could explain it a bit better this time the or when we are approving a pod we start with the ordinance to rezone the parcel to a pud designation this establishes the boundary of the pud the district boundaries on our zoning map from there we have a resolution that approves the finding effect that justifies this rezoning this is our um our record of evidence that we're able to point to then once we have the pud boundary established we can approve a resolution that of the preliminary pud development plan which provides the conditions specific to that district and once we have the conditions that apply to that district we can approve a preliminary plot that meets those conditions so that's why we do it in that order or we can technically approve it all at once if we so choose fine so then we go into our procedures as a city we loosely follow robert's rules of order otherwise known as parliamentary procedure we also are required to follow by open meeting laws in other words we must be open to the public when we're making decisions and discussing facts of the case and we also must comply with the 60-day rule this is a rule that applies to all land use requests general um that we went over the cups and variances and the only exception that we have as a city is again that preliminary plaque where we can extend to 120 days otherwise the applicant has to request and that's from the day it's it's filed that is for yeah from the data complete application is submitted to the city yes okay so in the hopes of efficient meeting practices i believe we are in a kind of a transition period where we had done a process based on the fact that we were doing zoom meetings and now we're doing in-person meetings so i think we can move back to a process that we were utilizing before so basically when we have an agenda item in front of us the chair should announce and clearly state the subject we do our staff presentation we hold the public hearing and once the public hearing is closed the chair can go ahead and invite a motion on the item and invite a second to the motion once that is ready to go then anyone that wants to speak whether it's asking questions debating they can go ahead and raise their hand to be requested to request the chair to recognize them and they have the floor commissioners that do not want to speak or do not have anything additional to add are not required to speak we do not need to go around twice to make sure everyone had a chance to speak it should be recognized that planning commissioners that want to speak can notify the chair and go from there so once we have everyone who wants to speak has had the floor the chair can repeat the motion and call for a vote and then the chair will announce the results of the vote whether or not the motion fails or passes carries so if you don't mind me saying so in in the way our agenda is put out staff report open public hearing closed public hearing commission discussion and recommendation are you suggesting that we should eliminate number four commission discussion and recognition no i'm saying go straight to a vote no not no i what i said is we want to go ahead and get a motion on the floor for us to discuss and then once the disc when the discussion and debate is complete amongst the commissioners we go to a vote but no i definitely encourage discussion and debate and questions for clarification it's just it's helpful for organization to have emotion on the floor to discuss then we have legally defensible decisions as a commission we want to make sure that we are able to stand by the decisions that we came to so it's important that we understand the subject matter jurisdiction did we as a body decide a matter that we are empowered to by statute or ordinance to act on so for example the parks commission is able to make recommendations on park dedication that is generally not something that's in our purview as a commission so we want to focus on the application in front of us not a hypothetical situation uh so that's kind of where the subject matter decision is coming from then we have use of proper procedures did we have do we follow open meeting law did we post a public notice which is my job um did we hold the public hearing do we have a record of decision to point to and proper standards meaning did we apply proper standards in making the decision such as what we have written in our code for rezoning and cups and plot review we basically want to be able to point back to ordinance and zoning standards do we have a rational basis for the decision could a reasonable person have reached this conclusion and then evidence in the record do facts in the record of the proceedings support our decision is there a logical conclusion as commissioners is important to avoid advocating oh i'm sorry i missed something the one case i wanted to point to was hoyt at all versus city of minneapolis this was a situation where uh basically a planning commissioner not playing commissioner but a city council member had made a decision prior to the public hearing and was advocating for against the application and so the city ended up being sued and there are several lessons that we should keep in mind basically that as planning commissioners and the same goes for city council members you do not want to have your mind made up prior to the public hearing you want to be open to the evidence that can that is presented at the hearing you do not want to advocate for or against an application with before a public hearing and you want to remain an impartial decision maker and so we can go on to it's important to avoid and again or we do not want to advocate for certain results you want to avoid ex parte contacts so that's contact between you all i think i don't know if you've noticed but when i send out an agenda you're all blind cc'ed so that you don't can can't easily do a reply all by mistake which could count as a ex parte contact um then you want to avoid discussing projects and meetings on social media could i i don't think that the ex parte contact law means between two you know certainly you have to be mindful of public meeting laws but i think that that that the law you're referring to ex parte refers to if a member of this commission were to reach out to an applicant not if i if i i i don't believe uh that that what you're referring to is if if dean if if the chairperson calls me and say hey you're going to the meeting to hey you know i don't understand that what do you mean about this we're not convening a meeting outside of the public that's not what the ex parte is referring to it's referring to a member of this commission reaching out to an applicant yeah that is not my understanding um but yeah my understanding is ex-party communications are discussions between decision makers beyond the quasi-judicial hearing or members are required to base their decision on evidence presented during the hearing right yeah relying on information provided elsewhere could violate due process rights fundamental fairness dictates that all parties are informed of all facts um in in in the real world ex-party communications happen uh but we would need to disclose something like that happens so it might not be i think it's kind of the idea of a quorum we have to notice when there's going to be a quorum but one on one is not a quorum right so you could speak to one other person but if but if chair jacobs has already spoken to uh commissioner brummond on an item then he would be very careful about speaking it with somebody else that's correct so um so you're right maybe i'm simplifying it because i'm running out of time no no i get that but i think it's important to to clarify this so i i'd like an opinion from the city attorney on that because am i allowed to just call any applicant before the hearing and say hey you know tell me about this project i don't think i can do that and i think that that's what ex parte is referring to if there is no quorum there's no decision-making ability amongst this commission so and i've certainly i've had applicants call and contact me my understanding is one-on-one with an applicant to discuss questions on the application is is that okay yeah that i mean that's something that i that i've yeah you've promoted it in the past right especially with yeah with a complicated application um but i can i don't know if i can get a written opinion from the city attorney but i could i could definitely check with him yeah i i don't need that i would just like some clarification on that i'm happy to do that okay thank you um and the other thing we want to avoid is conflicts of interest which goes to our next slide so what constitutes a conflict of interest it's come up a few times in the last year where someone thought they may have a conflict of interest or otherwise basically the minnesota statute defines it as a public official who has the ability to make a decision as part of their official duties that would substantially affect their own or an associated business's financial interest another way to look at it is a public officer who has the ability to make a sale lease or contract in their official capacity and could also voluntarily have a personal interest or financial benefit as a result of that transaction a couple examples if a city council member votes on a city contract and they are would be able to receive compensation as a partner or shareholder of the other party to the contract another example that the city attorney actually provided to me yesterday was if the city goes does an rfp for trash haulers and a council member has a trash hauling business now if the business doesn't decide to submit a bid to that rfp there is no conflict of interest however if they do submit a bid and now they have an incentive to work against the other bids they would have a conflict of interest that must be disclosed and they should abstain from the vote another exception for conflicts of interest to keep in mind if you are a member of a business classification profession or occupation and the action applies to all others in that same class or category then you need not disclose a conflict because there it applies to everyone equally you are not in violation of a conflict of interest in that situation could i get some clarification and i know you're running out of time but i yeah we are out of time yeah i get that but i think questions are more important than jeopardy the statute reads a public official or a local official elected to or appointed by a metropolitan government i'm not saying that's you know i'm not saying uh you know this is the case here but does that statue also apply to city contract planners it applies to city staff it applies to everyone so it applies to vendors as well yes so yeah but yeah basically the difference here being a con a city contractor such as landform they they are beholden to the city through their contract if they're not acting in the best interest of the city they lose the contract and really what their contractual duty is to provide professional advice they are not making a decision they are uh it's the city council that's ultimately making a decision well but there are recommendations being made to city council there are recommendations in coordination with city staff so it's coordination with public works the city attorney it's not just her view alone so it's yeah so it's very it's it's there's a little bit of a separation into what they're talking about a financial interest they're more talking about the the ability to um to gain or lose financially as a result of a contract the city is entering into our other transaction okay thank you and i think that's it so we've gone through a few questions if we want to stick to the agenda we could probably take questions until about 605 and um it's a whole bit so let me know if there's other questions and maybe already answered i had one let me see if i can find it [Applause] okay oh under the uh variance application types it said that the circumstances unique to the property are not caused by the landowner or the predecessor and that referred specifically to wetlands and i know that we do that um uh it's come up a few times anyway but why are wetlands the only designated uh area like of protection is it just because of the the watershed so um i just want to clarify the i was just providing examples of physical constraints oh okay i would qualify for the others could also apply not just specifically yeah that's just one of the easiest ones because it comes very relevant yeah so if there's so many wetlands on the property that basically the building pad that's left over is minimal and wouldn't meet our standards and that is not the fault of the property owner um or the previous property owner it's not the fault of a develop so maybe maybe maybe it's like one of our parcels that aren't planted right now you're coming in to try to get a house permit and turns out most of his wetlands sure um but they do have a development rate of some sort then a variance could reasonably be granted because they have no control over the location of the wetlands okay no that's helpful i didn't realize it was just examples and not exclusively right no that is not exclusive that that was just to try to explain that generally speaking when we say unique circumstance we're not talking about um physical constraints no we are talking about physical characteristics of a site we're not talking about a political situation sure they should like because they hate their neighbor they should be able to put up a fence right okay so yeah say on the application types preliminary and final platz one i was so there wasn't anything in there about the preliminary plaid about the number of proposed units and the difference in the final plat of course we've all seen those numbers especially with regard to leonarev um very drastically yeah proposed street and lot layout and then we have a final plat with the final street lot layouts i guess i kind of considered that as part of the lot layout in terms of numbers but yeah they can either the preliminary plan is to provide a much more uh general proposed idea and then as things become more as requirements are applied to the plaque uh then things sometimes need to get adjusted in the final plaque that's why there might be some kind of discrepancy okay and then finally when we were talking about how you wouldn't put a bakery in the middle of a residential neighborhood does that also apply then to agriculture like because agriculture is not commercial and it is not residential so does it have to stand on its own so our rural residential allows for agricultural uses as a permitted right so they kind of are able to do what they want to do unquestioned in the city now as far as a agricultural farm in the middle of one of our urban zoning districts that would that is not an allowed use okay i was just wondering because one of the suggestions made in the 25 percent preservation was for it to be utilized by a farmer like a community or community garden right yeah i think i think that would be a different situation i don't think there's anything preventing community gardens again a garden but as far as like a commercial farm it's not like you could rent that out to a land lease and somebody could come and grow alfalfa and then cut it you would that is not what you're doing um that is not currently allowed by our code well you can lease your land like the land could be owned by someone and then yeah i think we should talk about it sorry okay no no no you're fine you're fighting itself yeah it's i think it's just a very hypothetical situation so it might be sure that we would have to review as an application but it would fit agriculture uses would fit with that not mixing the zoning potentially um i think that agriculture is kind of one of those uses that just gets treated differently it has more protections it's valuable on the state level as well so um but i what i think is more where you're going to see something like this is if it's a commercial business that's operating brick and mortar people can come and buy vegetables right okay that i think is the idea of that you're not supposed to mix that's yeah you're not supposed to mix that without it being something you've already designated as something you like a mixed residential or sorry mixed-use district okay um but yeah if we're talking about a single-family home residential district they're very limited uses and i just tried to use a bakery as a example of a commercial use yeah okay thank you in puds isn't there a isn't there requirements that the um [Music] that is uh the burden of proof is upon the applicant to show that a pud would be the only way a property or development could be achieved no no i i the the idea is there should be negotiation between the city and the developer and the idea is that there should be some benefit to the city beyond street zoning there is really no it's not like a variance where there's a burden of proof showing that they wouldn't be able to develop otherwise but a pud should provide benefits to the city and users not obtained through straight zoning correct so again a lot of that usually ties back to preservation of natural resources we don't have a tree preservation ordinance so we use that a lot of the time when a pd comes in front of us we try to get them to preserve as much trees as possible and that's kind of a way we get around not having a tree preservation ordinance while still getting the same goal all right thanks um there did she pull that question oh go ahead oh no i was just saying good question um kendra pulled up the um court case euclid versus ambler realty to answer your one of your early questions it's not necessary well just the facts around the case i think it is interesting the village council passed a zoning ordinance dividing into several districts ambler realty's landspan multiple districts and the company was therefore restricted in the types of buildings it could construct so they filed a suit against the village claiming that their 14th amendment rate was violated and a federal district court agreed and issued an injunction against enforcement of the ordinance this obviously went to the supreme court where it was determined that the city's police powers overruled the 14th amendment or any violation of the 14th amendment so again the pr the interest of the private property was sorry the interest of the private rights did not outweigh the interest of the community so that's basically what we were talking about we're seeing police powers so we'll lose to the met council at every turn um you don't have to answer that question yeah i suppose i can't say everything i don't know exactly how court would decide this specific case and that is in front of us but they the metropolitan council does have authority established and enabled with the state of minnesota and you didn't say that's the powers get delegated from the state level anyway so if they've delegated to them then you would kind of apply it so it's statement council county us so we we have several people that are several agencies that we answer to we also answer to our watershed district so it's yeah it's we don't have complete authority but we do have discretion in some areas yes any other questions feel free to email me if anything comes up i am happy to look into it i'll look into the um ex party communication yeah thank you yeah um i don't need anything i'm just i just want some clarification yeah and i'm happy to provide it i i well i'd like to think i'm an expert on this i don't know everything and i will admit no one does um but i prepared a game of jeopardy to try to make this a little fun for you guys so you each have a buzzer there are no teams you're each going to just play your own you'll have to bear with me because i don't know which sound they each have a different sound i don't know which one is assigned to hoops so but this is it it was a fun day at city hall when i had to install the batteries on these also i just really have to say that the amount of breath that you have expelled in the last hour being like you know it takes a lot like you guys don't understand that your breath runs short so i'm impressed to say thank you i tried to minimize the um but it's a very long presentation you gotta cut them all out anyways so i think you have to go to the next screen so i think we'll just go ahead and start with the chair that means boy go ahead and choose a category and number it will go from there um we'll take procedures procedures for 200. how am i going to get to that so you just you should just be able to click on it and it's a link so this law requires meetings of governmental budget all right who did it okay okay go ahead open public clause perfect all right and then you can go ahead and pick the next one i'm gonna go for the fences give me double jeopardy for two thousand i'm gonna that's right we don't mess around here i'm sorry okay all right oil v hold [Music] i don't watch tv i always wanted to give it to you because we were so close but it was hoyt versus very very well i thought he said that isn't that what he said he said oil oil oh oil very very clean you're so close so does does karen get 2 000 yeah korean gets 2 000 i think oh i can't remember let's go historical background for a thousand four hundred okay yeah that's when we just did it [Music] you can't look at notes yeah i don't know i i know this one i just can't remember the darn name of the thing i say look at your notes okay don't look at your nose usually don't worry i don't know you haven't seen village or something [Music] is there a timer versus the town of zimmerman you think it was that now did he have euclid versus ambler oh my god that is so close i think we can give that one yeah it was euclid versus amber realistically it was close too hit your buzzer hit your buzzer oh i really feel like you should take your 2000 points back no historical background for 200 please what is the black plague thank you in europe all right and it's your turn again to pick and then go with a historical background for 400. what is police powers it's your turn to choose then [Music] i will go with double jeopardy for 1600. because i took out a couple slides that went over our community vision because i was trying to keep it at 45 minutes well true this yeah this is our vision statement so yeah i i'm going to give you that one it is our mission statement so it is a true thing it's true that's true thank you alex i'll take double jeopardy for 1200 please what is a hardship close no okay very close we used to call it that yeah another way of saying well i can't buzz in again guys you're gonna have to think of all the synonyms you know related to hardship and economic hardship no that remember economic hardship does not constitute this standard yeah well um alone anyways i would give you hardship because until 2009 that's what we called this okay well then we can do that it's practical difficult difficulty i was like hardship difficulty but practical difficulty but i think that is another way especially in our staff presentations we probably say hardship as another like synonym of it so okay let's do a historical background for 600. [Music] you're on the board historical background for 800. what is new york city is you get to choose again planning basics for 200 what is the planning commission yep i'll just i'll stick with it bait planning basics for 400. it was a comprehensive plan nice ever compliment now we'll go let's go to planning basics for 800. oh what is legislative you know i stumped myself one second i think you're ain't great oh that's not what you're no no the answer you're on the right track that is not the right answer okay what is quasi-judicial nice very yeah thank you [Laughter] oh uh planning basis for 600. well i'm going to just throw it in there what are zoning ordinances close there's one more and subdivision i suppose you do have the plural form up i should have okay and what's planning basics for a thousand oh i took this one out too um i don't know the answer to this so ek schumacher said that the way society uses land is a pretty simple way to see what or to determine its future so i apologize i like i said i'm just trying to i think that's getting down and hanging up on the wall yeah why don't you go ahead and choose another one um let's do procedures for 400. what is uh uh what rules of procedure um i i forgot his name really close there's another way to say it too if you want that would i would accept i can't remember what are robert's rules room yes yep yep let's do applications for 400. one or two oh applications one we did our music what is exemption no it goes back to our discussion about the bakery what is a conditional use no because it this is what when we're taxing oh what is mixed zoning no no shoot no all those things we do this is something we should try to avoid as a city well i would say pud so um people want to do it at times especially once you're a completely developed city i came up at brooklyn quite a bit yeah so basically we're talking about a parcel in the middle of a residential development that ha that does not have access to major roads it would be called how can i say it landlocked no outlaw no gun range [Laughter] um should i just pull with yeah yeah all right the answer is spot zoning we want to uh okay so applications one for 600. there you go amen or ordinance change that's exactly it rezoning would also be another way to say it too uh applications for 600 now let's okay um i can see how you would get there but no okay the conditional use permit application no so this is when someone can't meet the um has a practical difficulty and can't meet this what is the marriage uh let's do procedures for 600. what is 60 days yes yep 60-day rule a little procedures for 800. [Music] what is a pud what is the process for a pud nice yep applications 400. an interim use permit nice like what's the last do procedures for a thousand oh shoot what is a preliminary plan you got it applications won for 200. [Music] what is the comprehensive review plan the zoning ordinances and the subdivision ordinances extra word in there but yes you got it right applications for one for 800. what is the preliminary plot yep and applications one for one thousand what is preliminary plan no okay what is a conditional use yeah nice hit me good job uh applications two for 200. [Music] this is the yellow area yeah yeah apparently this one's harder than 200 i apologize yellow area doesn't count what is the yellow area no but i'll let you know i printed off the slides for a reason so if you want to take a quick look check your notes it's not cheating oh you're saying we can use our notes oh yeah oh i'm sorry i thought that was clear that's right while doing it from memory here because they were like don't look at your notebook here we go wow there's no way what are variances conditional use permits and subdivision applications extract that one that went to km applications 2 for 800. okay notes are allowed in interim use correct yeah mmm double jeopardy for 800. a pud application uh we'll go with applications too for a thousand that's the same answer what is it like he technically ran the buzzer but yes i was correct i didn't expect you to do one at those two there's only one left yep what is the industrial revolution nice yep all right we'll see who the winner is and then we can take a break well it's going to be one of the newbies i can tell you that you guys yeah no final jeopardy no i'm sorry this was my first time i was working a jeopardy board i did a good job all the links worked yeah it took a little bit of time it was just like i'm spending way too much time on this they better like it i did more than i thought i would so this this is an app huh this is an app that you downloaded no it's powerpoint it's in powerpoint i made it in powerpoint yeah oh there's three links and i made this back in july and i'm like i still have to practice my presentation that's funny and we're ahead of schedule see yeah in a little bit oh that's impressive no i know i just wanted to try to get through it because it was already a long presentation so but if you have any questions feel free to bring them up now or contact me and i'll be happy to look into it well now that you're allowing more questions this is one that maybe doesn't sure apply but but i'm it's out of curiosity so by the time you get to the application for a pud has the land purchase already been made um sometimes okay sometimes usually there's at least a purchase agreement in place okay um i know that may or may not fall through depending on the cities correct and then i know of situations where the land purchase has gone through and the developer is now the property owner um so i i don't want to name any specifics because i don't know how much is public information but yeah that i think um at the very least there's a purchase agreement in place well drum roll corrine i'm gonna print off a certificate for you but no please don't i was really kidding but but but you went at planning so if that helps answering questions not planning all right and um just i think there are some things dean made i just wanted to comment we have um a home occupation or a accessory dwelling unit ordinance that was written a long time ago when lauren was our chair dean do you remember when lauren conan was in chair and there was a real reluctance to allow it at all and so we have a lot of things that are a very restrictive i think in the world that we live in today the accessory dwelling units are something that certainly i think people are interested in more and at the time they intentionally did it through an interim use permit i don't disagree with you though that that has some inherent challenges because it's harder to tell when somebody sells the property right we don't get noticed well you know george george wrote a small dissertation when we considered those in full support of it and he makes very good points and right i mean heck i even thought about it myself i thought well why don't i just go ahead and build a building on back in my yard to sell my house and my daughter i don't want to get into these things again but i thought but but how does this but how does this uh we adjourn to the can we adjourn and then we can oh sure sorry sorry i apologize this is a journey all right but i mean i in in in today's world i yes there's but it just i mean when i drove by that place again i knew what to expect but i mean you