are you ready yes Jenny can you please take the role council member Cole here council member schweer here councilmember nordby here mayor mangi is absent and acting mayor Wang here all right so I'm looking to adopt the agenda but we've had a request to switch topics A and B um do we have a motion for that so moved your honor second all those in favor aye is that a pose all right the motion carries all right turn it over to city manager Workshop Bob's here to talk so I think is the mpca electric vehicle charging station Grant opportunity you say that again we're gonna do that second uh so first up would be the sidewalk encroachment ordinance um AKA sidewalk cafes I'll turn that over to Brandi please good evening mayor and Council acting mayor and Council welcome Brandi technology work for me that's fantastic okay so on your agenda tonight is a draft ordinance for your consideration and policy Direction on whether this is something we want to pursue as a council and if so how do we want the ordinance to to look in terms of regular regulation so because we have some new council members on we wanted to give you a little bit of background the under the state's covet emergency you may have noticed that there was some downtown outdoor seating that was occurring in 2020 2021 and the ones that state of emergency was lifted that exception to allow that outdoor seating was no longer permitted but there's a lot of interest still with the local businesses and so they've been speaking to the former mayor and kind of a trickled down to staff and so we've been looking at it to try to determine what is the best approach if we're going to move forward with an outdoor seating ordinance so we looked at a number of cities mostly in Minnesota some in Iowa as well and found that generally it's done by either license or permit annually and then there's a variety of fees the lowest being 25 and the highest I actually looked at Madison too and the fees and the regulations they were exorbitant so I kind of you know whittled it back down to just Iowa and Minnesota but the highest fee in in this group was 200 bucks annually and that was in Dubuque and out of those different cities a different a number of types of regulations were were included such as where refurnishings could be located pedestrian clearance meaning the you know the width of the walkway to make sure that people can pass time limit you cannot have the outdoor seating area from November 1st to April 1st March 31st rather some of them required an enclosure some of them required a liquor license well they would all require a liquor license if you're going to serve alcohol some of them chose not to and then there would be no smoking for some pretty much all of them except for one I believe head and no smoking requirement and then also liability insurance so other regulations included that it had to be adjacent to the applicant's business it could be either next to the building or the curb and as far as clearance all the ordinances that I looked at required either four to five feet for pedestrians and also clearance for any public infrastructure like street lights and Street trees utility type infrastructure and then just a note for for your information the 80 the Ada requires a minimum of three feet as a passing zone with an additional 200 feet every oh sorry a passing zone every 200 feet so as it relates to enclosures those were typically only required if alcohol was going to be served but it wasn't required in all cities it can be used to separate the Sidewalk Cafe from the street or the parking area this image on the on the screen kind of depicts like a planter box and some of those chain ropes they're kind of delineating where where the seating belongs and where the street begins to kind of put some protection between the pedestrians and the vehicle traffic they also included a regulation that said it must be removable portable fencing or a planter so if you're going to put it out there you got to be able to move it at the end of your permit so then we looked at the downtown revitalization plan different than the Redevelopment master plan I got those confused when I first came thank you so this plan was the predecessor to the 7th Avenue street reconstruction project so this is the design work that went into that and what that design was would allow for um a sidewalk width of 16 feet which is typical sometimes it's bigger than that so that would be like the the most narrow sidewalk area and of that 16 feet seven and a half feet has been designed specifically as a pedestrian Zone that meets ADA requirements in terms of slope and other ADA requirements and then the additional eight and a half feet was purposefully met as the amenity or utility Zone and so if you look at the little image on the on the bottom right that's the area that's designed closest to the street and they had included this as a kind of a little graphic of how it could operate so the little boxed areas are Planters you're seating and then another planter with an additional six feet of right-of-way so our recommendations and these are just you know first crack at what we could do are included in the draft ordinance so we're suggesting an annual permit between well this has been modified as of today May 1st to October 31st the ordinance actually says April 1st but we had a discussion this afternoon that kind of changed our mind to May 1st um it must be reviewed and approved by a designee of the city manager so if somebody came in for a sidewalk permit it would be handled by staff and not by by city council a site planner to be required we would collect an application fee just threw 25 in there is the minimum that it would take for us to do that preliminary review and to determine whether or not it meets the requirements it would include revocation of permit for any violations an appeal process if we denied the permit so that goes that includes all the administrative policies the general requirements we're suggesting that The Pedestrian Zone be six feet which is a lot more generous or sorry it's yeah it is it's a lot more generous than the four to five feet that the other cities have but it's a little bit more restrictive for the for the permit holders it's in compliance with Ada liability insurance would be required if you wanted to serve alcohol you would have to do it with an appropriate license and that would be done by a separate process so if they wanted to modify their their existing liquor license they would have to go to the typical process of that which would require city council approval that's the boundaries right just the defined area that alcohol is served in I don't think that we're talking about the same thing what we can we can Circle back to that um so the layout where possible would be required in the amenity Zone we're not requiring it um you the requirement would be that you have to leave six feet for pedestrian traffic if your sidewalk layout is such that it just doesn't make sense for that to for the placement than we could potentially do a one-off and say okay you can have it close to the building as opposed to close to the parking area but it would be site-specific but we wanted to leave that flexibility in case there's a situation that would require it so if it was going to be adjacent to to the parking or the curb then we would require a barrier like the planter that we looked at before and then as far as Furnishings go they must be commercial grade movable weather resistance and suggested that they'd be locked at the end of the business day also they should be stacked and organized at the end of the business day and area must be kept in a clean and sanitary condition and some of the organ or some of the other cities had outdoor heaters and so that's included in your ordinance and then to consider if you were going to keep that in there the heating equipment must comply with fire code regulations but since we're modifying the um time that these are going to be allowed heating may not be logical from May to October so something to consider so the way the ordinance is drafted right now we have it's basically a sidewalk encroachment permit that you would be applying for so that would apply to sidewalk cafes like we just described sidewalk sales would be another use for sidewalk encroachment and then other fixtures so for sidewalk sales they still have to maintain the six foot pedestrian Zone they can put merchandise in front of their in front of the building as long as they maintain you know that six feet there's a seven and a half feet if you recall according to that um the design by WSB and the merchandise can't block entrances or exits so other fixtures I just kind of left that flexible as you can see there's public art there there could be other fixtures like bicycle racks anything that a business would want to have of their own located in the public right-of-way so that would you know this Project's noise statues would be included in there um so the time limit this is something the City attorney review came up with we should have a an exception for the Project's noise so anything that's intended to be kept there year round we should have an exception for them so optional requirements that we have not included but we could would be the delineation of the alcohol area or the seating area so a continuous barrier made of fencing or planters they must be Compact and contiguous with the enclosed portion of the license premise um something to consider and also no smoking so the last time we looked at this was back in September and I believe commissioner Cole had requested a review by be police chief and also the car show so we talked to the car show this this morning or this afternoon and we also talked to the police chief and the Public Works director and then last week I had a quick conversation with the city's insurance agents and then the City attorney has expressed his concern with liabilities so all of the items that have been brought up by these entities have been included in this presentation but not necessarily reflected in the draft ordinance so those include um so we made the change from May to October versus April to October City Insurance agent suggested that a risk transfer agreement is going to be needed that lists the city as an additional insured um under the permit holder holders insurance and I believe Bob's here to speak on his own behalf but my understanding from our conversation this morning was that he wasn't necessarily concerned with the proposal but suggests that we have in the early days that this is in effect that we have the police on the ground to make sure that everybody's and full understanding of what the rules are and that kind of get them up and going um and that that is all so I'm going to open it up to discussion I'll sit back to owner stand up here whatever you prefer thank you any questions for Brandy council member Cole I've got a couple and you I may have skimmed through it and missed it was there anything in there about the bar owner's responsibility for storage of um the tables and chairs during during the winter months there is not but that is a good comment about potential modification yeah yeah just just concerned the other area was um referencing Barry the barriers around it um we met with bar owners last Wednesday it was the mayor police chief Brian and myself were there and one of the things they were asking for is what do these barriers look like they expressed a desire if this is go forward with the city they would like them all to look the same which I think was our overall conversation from from the beginning and I know that was one of the areas to to work on in there um so just if if we kind of similar to the commercial grade furniture that we that we set forth did we put any barriers together what the barrier would look like when we approved no tables and chairs okay that because that was one thing they were asking for that was it for me I'm easy yeah we can amend the policy okay um and I can make a change to indicate that the bar owners are responsible or any any permit holder is responsible for storing non-permanent objects and then do you put the wild card in there in the event of snow it ends well um is there any other comments I have several um and along with Tim would it be possible rather than to say October 1st because I know some years is beautiful out and we suspend parking um would it be to say this is allowable and tell the city and next their winter parking rules because we've suspended it before until mid November because it's beautiful out and this would put the onus on the city of when we start our winter parking rules and sometimes that's mid-november okay so I'm not sure what the parking rules are but maybe you had said October 1st right oh well you can't park on the streets overnight um usually starting November 1st okay well the permit has as it is listed it would end October 31st so it kind of Co aligns with what you're suggesting right but if it was a beautiful November and bars are making money would it be advisable to allow these people to do it a little bit longer if it's a beautiful November and put that along with um another alternative would be when the first snowflies you're over but that could that could not go well as well um the second question I have it is commercial grade for furniture is more of a marketing Ploy as far as I'm concerned I don't know that there's a legal standard there um so I think we should run that past the City attorney of with no legal standard for what you can Market as commercial grade I don't know that that's a standard we can set forth of who's marketed their Furniture as commercial grade and who hasn't I believe the furniture requirements have already been printed and passed by Council that's kind of a I know they were presented yeah that's more a policy and not regulatory so I hear what you're saying and I'm not entirely sure what the answer is right now but it's something that we could definitely bring up to bring it up to Soarin and see if the wording is such that maybe commercial grade as that conversation predates you too so yeah yeah it wouldn't be a liability to the business owner if they had the plastic flexible furniture I'm not sure I wouldn't say flexible but it would be something you would use on your patio itself you can buy it at a local retailer it's it's it moves along with you it can break easily um that was kind of the purpose of having the commercial grade language because we want to ensure that it's going to be heavy enough to be weather resistant and also appropriate enough for the Aesthetics of the downtown that's how I read it I wasn't I was going off of console member sorry Jesus um that's how I was trying to Define it on that end you don't want to purchase something that's flexible I should say where commercial grade is a little bit heavier metals okay and or plastic right and I believe that's the intent and I agree with that intent but I don't know that commercial grade is more than a marketing standard I don't believe there's any legal standard there for them to Market their product as commercial grade definitely something that we can research and try to determine what the best language is and then my last question was is it only non-smoking then if they serve food well that's that's up to the council to decide The Way It Was Written I believe that last slide said no smoking in compliance with um uh the food and beverage Association or a Minnesota Clean Indoor Air Act that's that's a policy recommendation but we can really form this ordinance um in any way that you see appropriate oh sorry okay thank you at the moment there's no um there's no regulation in the draft for non-smoking so if that's something that wants that you want added I'm gonna need to make that modification does anyone have yes I do I have another question um the definition of revocation is pretty strict would you would this ordinance provide any warning notification a fine before revocation and then revocation of the permit again this is a policy decision for Council so if it's something that we're very concerned about liability um we want to you know bring it down quickly but if we want to have a little bit more flexibility in getting people up to speed on how we operate under this new permitting process then I think a warning or discussion or whatever the preliminary first step and second step might be so that is another one that we could take a look at I think the intent was to look at up to revocation but you're right suspension or you know just discussions can count can count for a lot when you have issues so and I guess the biggest another concern I am I don't know if you'd say so much a concern but for the businesses downtown especially during the car show could they or would we allow paying customer signs only for seating well I would imagine um so you're suggesting that the permit holder would want to add their own sign that says the seating is only for paying customers I mean we could have that um they could just add that as part of their permit process and it doesn't necessarily need to be addressed in the in the ordinance because it could just be a piece of their site plan Furniture okay that they could approve it consequences if they do something wrong I think you gotta look at that case by case because if Tim wanders out of the fenced area with his beer we ain't going to pull your license come on guys you know but if there's an altercation or something like that yeah there's ways you got to deal with it but you got to give and take because you know we all everybody's new but we had this in 2020 and it worked really well first couple weeks we had issues with people wandering the street we had a meeting with the bar owners and the bar owners in this town want things to work right they got on it it was the end of the story you know they were very good people learn in the first two weeks of the car show will be the toughest because people are going to see things and oh yeah and they're going to forget they got a beer and down the street to go okay we ask him hard come out of and somebody goes talks to Mike at Newman's erotic go hey watch your people closer but no I think you gotta if there's a problem you gotta do it Case by case just can't pull their permit my take on it thank you Bob anything else no I said I'm we're for we had a meeting today and it worked good last time they just need a little more uniformity because during the cold but it was kind of random thank you as far as just to add on what Bob is suggesting having some kind of delineation like I'll go back to that image the I don't even know what you call this um the Bollard with the with the chains it's not going to keep anybody from like that really wants to get out but it's implied this is where you are if you're in this area and if you're going to have a meal or a beer this is this is the seating area and it's not for you to get up and move around but as it's written it's not a requirement so I'm looking for your thoughts on that too Brian my understanding of the way things work is for a bar to serve liquor in this area they would have to ask for an amendment to their liquor license and then at that point in time the city would say in order for us to Grant this you need to have barriers and and those stipulations would come with the granting of the liquor license amendment is that correct correct and along with proof of insurance for the expanded area as well yes so so in your opinion strict liquor rules don't need to be in this ordinance because they would be part of the liquor license itself correct that's my understanding um I don't recall the question about the barrier I know that we talked about that last summer it was it was my understanding that one of there is one of the things that would be the delay is that each bar owner has to identify where liquor is served and currently it's basically with within the confined Four Walls of their existence so in order for the city to approve the liquor license it has to extend on to the area of the of the sidewalk and I think that's a state thing not a city thing but I am by far not the expert from the barn I believe it's state guidelines but still approved by the city yeah we can um I can go back and get verification on the the enclosure question I know that for maybe if I talk through it it will come back to me the the amendment that we worked on over the summer was to eliminate the fence requirement on private property if you're going to um have an outdoor Beer Garden on your own property not on the public right-of-way and so at that time we needed a six foot fence so we eliminated that I thought we moved it to three I think we just Maybe if we put a pin in that I can do some research because we did it to accommodate Max I remember the reason I don't remember the outcome oh it looks like there's a three foot I'm half there [Laughter] another word for delineation too many syllables for me barriers markers okay and we say demarcication markation I will find it as soon as I'm not on the spotlight with the way the area that we looked at would bend the width of whatever their business is out to the roads they've not expand outside correct those imaginary lines you know um the legal requirements of the state aside and also the requirements of the license liquor license ordinance assuming that neither of those require an enclosure how do we feel about the enclosure and then if if we decide that we don't need it I'll just make sure that we can do that or if we must have it then I'll make sure that whatever we come up with this group is in alignment with those state and local requirements any thoughts yeah council member Cole I'm of the belief that Bob's got his hand up to I'm of the belief we need to do something to define the space Rod inspired has seating for eight people all of a sudden there's there's gun chairs now there's 12 chairs I'm with this group of Ronnie's bar drinking about the 12th children now I'm all the way down you know past the bookstore I think there's got to be some designated area for each bar otherwise wants to stop somebody from setting their chair next to the buddies and getting a beer and the first thing we've got all the way down the street yeah so I'm I'm of I'm of the opinion that we need to do something I'm also of the opinion that whatever it is needs to be consistent across all bar owners um so that if you're bar hopping you get it um I would like to see something more permanent than whatever you call them with the chains in between them I've seen Planters I've seen more solid barriers um in other areas still water white bear but yet something that Still Remains decorative and ties in with the look that we want nursing call to have are there any comments to that so for clarification is is this I mean we're talking about the details of the ordinance but just to clarify this is something that we want to move forward with as a as a regulation if there's a permitting option okay yeah so if there are no other comments would you like me to read through what I think I heard okay so the um the barriers they need to be there should be a barrier it has to be the space must be defined but it can't be bollards and chains it's got to be a little bit more decorative such as a planter the revocation process needs to have some steps some warning steps perhaps morning suspension um no smoking on outside I don't know if we came to yes okay commercial grade well to figure out if there's better language than commercial grade um make an exception for warm weather if if there's no snow by November 1st you can just keep it out there till November 15th perhaps the permit holder must be responsible for storage of all permanent items and all barriers across the downtown should be the same or similar the same as kind of course whatever I'm sure we've got a guideline someplace I'm looking to you Lisa there's there's something out there I think probably the design review right um I would probably think similar I think trying to get the same maybe difficult chain issues and I don't know maybe costs may be prohibitive to some businesses versus others our owners were already expressing concern with table and chairs that supply chain has made it difficult for them to find some things already so uh well I'll move forward with that and I would imagine you'd want to see that at the next agenda if we have the ability to have City attorney review it yes for the smoking thing I was more wanted to just make sure we're in line with State guidelines but I think we should be more strict in States uh let's say a tobacco shop comes in and they want to set up a table outside and allow their patrons to sample their tobacco I don't know that we should exclude that by this ordinance which I believe would be currently acceptable under State guidelines I just wanted to make sure that we're going to be in line with the standards of the indoor Clean Air Act with if there's going to be food service I guess from my perspective it's a kind of a public health issue if we've got you know a bunch of people crowded around for the car show I mean you've got kids and people walking by some people don't want to smell smoke when they eat that that just carries so that's just kind of my thought around it I'm aligned with active active mayor Wong um it it it's tough where do you draw the line as of right now the only interested people who've expressed the desire is that a bar owners um recognizing this needs to extend beyond that to any other shop owner um I I yeah it makes it a slippery slope well there's nothing stopping them from displaying their product there would be things that would stop them from sampling is that okay I'm hearing a couple things um so the displaying of the product so for example the bookstore has a display and she currently doesn't have to get a permit for it so if we put this in place as written she would then be required to put to pull a permit to use the sidewalk to put her books out there or anybody else that might be doing that over the summer so if we wanted to make it easier for for retailers we could pull that requirement in terms of the tobacco shop I'm I'm not following this completely so we it sounds like we want to keep it keep it clear for for families but we also don't want to limit the ability of retailers to to use the outdoors to I'm not entirely sure where to go with that one you know if Newman's do they allow smoking in their open area they do that's their designated area is there a patio but does it change being in the public right away that we're allowing we would have control over that yeah we could it'll be right now whether it's right or wrong that's true somebody could just stand up and stand outside of where their seat is hours of unspoken on the sidewalk for how long on sidewalk and in designated areas I view as two separate areas I guess I might look up and see why still water and white bear if they have anything I don't think either of those communities have this sidewalk encroachment they at least don't have sidewalk cafes as an ordinance on the public right-of-way so I'm not sure if their ordinance is going to address smoking but I can take a look take a look any other thoughts yes I we have time I only have one more thought and that has to do with the serving of the alcohol and the designated area if it's not attached to the building if a patron walks out of the building and walks this five feet that's I would assume to be open container violation until they got into the designated area that's a question I would need to run by Soren I think so that that would I would I would want to get some guidance from Soren on on that um I mean the the workaround is they just have to have a server that that serves that area that carries the beer from the door to the to the barriers I think I'm going to need some guidance on that because I'm I'm pretty sure that Soren did consider that issue Last Summer it was the WSB and I no longer have his response to that um so otherwise how are you going to stop the individual from just standing outside the door on technically the sidewalk and drinking a beer yeah seems like we had those discussions early on um a couple years ago that that's the way it was worded then that their patrons would or they would serve the patrons in that area but we can double check so the question is um is a server required for the open container consideration okay I think I got it okay so I believe that we want to go ahead with this and I think I have my um uh list of items to to review and revise so we'll if we can we'll bring it back the next meeting so the owners can get moving with their purchases okay thank you yep real quick we had just this this is more for you Bob than anything else um the bar owners definitely recognized the car show as a tremendous asset to the city um and they want to make sure that the car show is happy um going forward so I appreciate you coming in and and sharing the opinion of of you and and also of you know the other the other members of the car show so thank you yeah within the story except I know this is all we know that there's going to be and we'll never stop the alcohol yep and the other thing if they haven't reached out to you that someone will be they want to make sure that you've got adequate volunteers they've recognized that that the volunteers have been tough over the last few years and the bar owners want to do everything they can to help the car show solicit volunteers to to help during during the time period especially about this year construction really happens we're going to have fun of you because we lose two corners of so I know I City and businesses I I go see Tracy hey Tracy what do you need four walls I mean everybody and the bars have been very good I didn't like them and say Hey you need something to speak up no we all work good together good and we've seen people foreign thanks Bob any of their last comments okay so the next item is the mpca electric vehicle charging station Grant opportunity okay this is something that came to my attention in December and it's funding from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency for level two EV charging stations they have 644 thousand dollars to install about 88 of these through this grant the funding is coming from the 2016 settlement against VW for violation of the Clean Air Act so the purpose of the grant is to increase the use of electric vehicles and reduce tailpipe emissions in the state so they're they're seeking eligible applicants to install these stations wherever we we can eligibility requirements municipalities are eligible applicants the stations that would be installed have to between have to be between 6.6 would be the minimum and up to 19.2 kilowatts and they must be accessible for 24 hours a day seven days a week a minimum of 350 days a year so that would leave open if you needed to do some maintenance on wherever they're installed there's some flexibility with that So within an area where the EV station would be installed the first of however many you would be placing has to be Ada accessible and in order to receive a grant you have to have at least two to these stations at each location that you would put them so the maximum award for per application would be 150 000 so that would be 10 dual Port stations the equivalent and so it's on the and the screen there is what a dual Port is foreign that's what's actually outside here at City Hall is one of these chargepoint dual ports so that would be the award would be 7 500. for one port or 15 000 for a dual Port that would be the maximum for those types of stations so that would not be just the um so if if a station is 15 000 but we need to actually include costs you know for extending service to the area we would have to find some funny some more money for those additional costs and so the match requires 20 percent um so for one dual Port that'd be three thousand dollars or two single port stations so the eligible costs would be the stations the new conduit any required signage the bollard's cable wiring electrical service box disconnects any concrete or asphalt that would need to be added or replaced uh striping of parking stalls the EV parking signs EV parking only signs and their installation any permitting costs charging station installation labor warranties and maintenance costs for up to five years and activation and configuration of the station so they have a number of points for evaluating who's going to be eligible for these Awards and so the higher the charging capacity of the station gets greater greater points whether or not you're in an environmental justice area or vulnerable populations you would get more points and they use they have a mapping program that they provide and you can see here that we the entire city fits within that the area to the north the West has the highest would get the highest points for that um targeted groups or small businesses would also get points we don't have the ability to to be that if you're powering it through Renewables you have additional points there and if there's other stations within five miles you get fewer points so because we have a station here in City Hall that might ding us a little bit so we had some internal conversations about where these might go so the parking lot that's kind of across from City Hall um on sepula Avenue might be one and then potentially the Community Center parking lot and so with that we're looking for guidance on whether this is something that you would like us to pursue and I'll take any questions hopefully I can answer them thank you any questions for Brandy thoughts Jason this should be a two-fold approach one is not only for us to approach it as a city but two to get the information out to our local businesses so they could possibly put in for this as well the local Target and stuff like that would they be eligible and can we get them that information well it could certainly just work with Carrie I think to disseminate that this is available I don't know if we've got a list of all of our businesses and their contacts though is the grant for municipalities only no it is not oh it's not okay yeah any other thoughts or questions council member Cole go for it submit I have a lot I have a lot of questions but let's get the paperwork started okay well that that leads me to ask well how many do you want to submit for um so how many do you think we can get and and the location and I guess one of the questions is the 24 7 piece is the light behind the old um knj is that's no over is that overnight parking permitted or no overnight parking permitted so I don't think there was either so how does the municipality handle would we have to change the rules for the EV station I guess we'd have to find out the clarity of what does it mean 24-hour parking that you can go there and park anytime but can you park there for two hours at midnight to 2 A.M or I don't know if it's just overnight I'll have to look at that well the parking lot has to be available to the public 24 7 every day and they are okay and then I think that we meet that eligibility requirement perfect yeah you don't have to be able to park your car there for 24 hours straight I think we could have some limitations with that plus you wouldn't want to because the way the system at least the existing system you're charged um based on a scale so if you're there over four hours then you're gonna get a much higher rate so you're going to move your car any other thoughts to piggyback on Tim with this 24-hour requirement that would eliminate anything on Main Street correct with our current 130 parking restriction it's not overnight parking you could still park there but I don't know that can you not park there after a certain time I believe everything on Main Street 130 um is no parking that's something that's been a bit of a concern of mine for a while is um you know eventually we're going to have to have them in the downtown area we have we put a conduit run throughout the especially the new construction area for that reason it's probably getting a maybe even a survey of the downtown businesses to find out who's going to be mad about it being their front of their shop because now somebody else can't park there that doesn't have EV um and others might be welcoming of it too so I think it would be good to outreach to our businesses to see what they think about that as well something that I noticed I didn't include in the presentation is the deadline for this is February 28th if memory serves so there's not a ton of time for for dawdling no my guidance is move is move the chain and we've we can work through whatever we've got you know whatever questions we have going forward okay Council membership do you have any thoughts no I'm with Tim on that one already if you don't mind well we're talking about this just the newer members that we are going to have another um EV charging station over in the lot behind um the K J that new parking lot we just did that's going to come through our power agency and that will be a dual Port as well so that'll be coming you know and then I think we've talked about this before that a lot of the um car makers are completely getting rid of all of their um fuel gas powered vehicles and just going Electric it's my understanding after 2030 like Ford for example um wasn't going to make combustible engines anymore and I don't know if that's strictly for um resident customers or is it is that a for businesses as well that you know are hauling stuff I'm not sure but I know the smaller Vehicles yes um I I don't know that we'll have a choice but some of the new ones also have the capability to charge the e-bikes as well with a small bike rack behind so they can do both um if that's an option I would say we should pursue with options that can charge both especially if we're connected to the Gateway Trail one right down there in Rotary Park yeah there's there's a lot and there's permanent restrooms down there in a shelter I was was thinking of the um Veterans Park so answering Brandy's question though how many do we apply for I say go big well I think I would need a little bit of guidance on where we would want them to be located um so I hear Rotary Park I didn't hear any concerns with the other two potential spots not entirely sure about the downtown just because of the possible restriction on 7th Avenue but that's definitely something to to take a look at so if you're willing to Grant staff the authority to just take it around with it we can do that you got my head shaken okay I could safely volunteer the electric Department to pay for that and when their grants picking up 80 and especially such a small amount it's that's a pretty nice deal any last comments before okay um there isn't any other business we can adjourn the meeting at do you have a motion to adjourn our Workshop all motion all in favor hi hi um those opposed Nate say nay it was ever opposed closing meeting I thought she just made herself I did too the meetings adjourned at 5 51. hold on