As an expert transcriptionist, I have added the speaker names to your townhall transcript based on the provided context of Lakeville municipality officials and the dialogue within the recording. [0:02] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, so the first item, we're going to be going through a series of interview questions for our commission candidates. We have four candidates, and then we'll transition to our normal agenda. [0:32] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Bri, welcome. Good to see you. Come on—sorry for the weird format, but we had to pick a different time. Yeah, it doesn't make it easy. Maybe—sorry the setup is so awkward. Um, you want to maybe just sit next to Taylor or somewhere on that side? Yeah, performing for us. Yeah. Uh, so, um, thanks for your willingness to think about serving again. Tell me a little bit about how the last year went. I mean, I think one of the conversation things that we had talked about last year was it was great to have somebody who's involved in community band. [1:18] **Bri:** So how did that interplay, and just give me thoughts about how it went. Yeah, I think, um—so it was good to be involved both in the band and on the board. I think you kind of had that good connection between the other band members and the board, and I think there were a lot of good things that came about this year, especially at the Christmas concert for the band. You know, working with the Friends of the Arts Center, they had some poinsettias for the band which was great. And then the Art Center also helped a lot with the marketing stuff of the concert, which helped a lot, I think, for attendance. They're working on getting, you know, higher attendance for the concert, but yeah, it worked pretty well. [2:05] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Good. Dan, I’m gonna start with you and then we’ll just kind of go down. [2:09] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Yeah, um, talk to us about working in a team. How—first off, since you've been on the board, how is the team atmosphere on that board, and how would you describe your skills? [2:23] **Bri:** Yeah, as far as the team atmosphere, I mean, they're all pretty, you know, willing to listen to new ideas and different perspectives coming from different spaces. I think when I came in and did the interview for the board last time, I mentioned it would be great to do some kind of things like date nights and stuff for painting. And I'm not saying that whatever I said influenced that, but I see, you know, part of their curriculum now, they have some date things that they did for, like, Valentine's Day. So yeah. [3:00] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** So, um, what do you see, like, maybe in the next year coming up, one or two years? What are some of the bigger issues you think the board is going to be dealing with? [3:11] **Bri:** So, um, really utilizing this space that they have. Okay. Um, getting more classes and more people that come to those classes. I know they have had a waitlist, a big waitlist before, and now they're able to provide a lot more classes, which is great for them. They are looking at a new furnace for their ceramics. [3:46] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, the kiln. [3:48] **Bri:** And so that'll be really nice, the gas kiln that's coming in. Yeah, that comes in and they can do some more classes and other activities around that. [4:00] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thanks. I thought it was fitting that the gas company helped sponsor—they want more gas use, so yeah, right, in their best interest, they'll make that back. [4:14] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Yeah, um, I'm curious what your perspective is on the relationship between the board and the Friends of the Art Center. You know, have you noticed that? Is that going well? Do you see any efficiencies there? [4:25] **Bri:** Um, yeah, I mean, it seems to be going well. Um, I, you know, work with—I can't even remember his name right now. [4:38] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Bob? [4:39] **Bri:** Yes, Bob. You know, he comes in and is working with the Friends of the Art Center and, um, you know, it seems like it's going well. I haven't seen any problems or any kind of areas that need improvement, I guess. But yeah. [4:54] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** So, um, three qualities that you think that a member should have to be on the board for the Art Center board? [5:12] **Bri:** Um, I would say kind of like an adventuresome, new kind of spirit of, like, you know, looking at something with kind of fresh eyes. I think, maybe different eyes. And I think a lot of the people on the Art Center board, they do that. Maybe they, you know, they can kind of see like when they're selecting the art to put in the—like at Ames Park, right? You know, like finding the different artists and stuff and working with them on what art to include. I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff about looking at the different types of people and types of artists to help, and I think that's good. [5:59] **Bri:** Let’s see, um, that's one of them. So someone who's willing to throw out new ideas—so there's accepting new ideas, but coming up with new ideas and sharing them with the team is important. And then listening, I’d say, to the other people on the Art Center board. [6:37] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thank you. So, anything else you wanted to share with us about experiences or things you're kind of looking forward to from, you know, last year, if you were to stay with it? [6:45] **Bri:** Um, no. I mean, I really enjoyed my time. I enjoyed meeting everybody. It was great to just be more active and understanding of the types of activities that are going on—you know, what the Art Center can provide to the community—and then being involved with the art that goes into some of the other parts of the community. I think that was really rewarding, to kind of be a part of that and seeing what's going on there. [7:18] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** So, um, I don't know—Justin? We've got a whole bunch of interviews. Not tonight. They're all on that Saturday that you weren't able to make it. So a couple of interviews tonight, and then we'll have a full day, I think it's March 8th, and then we'll get back to everybody. [7:37] **Bri:** Sure. Thanks for coming in. [7:39] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, thank you. Yeah, say hi to your family. [7:41] **Bri:** Yeah, thank you. [7:51] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Is there attendance? Yes, so on the—is that in Dropbox? It should be that we completed it today. Let’s also just—I have a 10:15 flight tonight, so I’ve gotta—what it will be, let's be very efficient on engagement. I didn't take very much. So I gotta—I probably gotta leave here. The flight boards at 9:45. Where you flying? Bismarck. That's a drive. What the heck? The problem is you can't—you can either fly tonight or the first flight in doesn't get in until 10 o'clock or 10:50. Oh, really? Yeah. So you—oh, that's right, you can't have a flight out of Lakeville. [8:55] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, is it Dave or is Mark? Mark is on planning as an alternate and is applying to come back, correct? [9:06] **Justin Miller:** Correct. [9:07] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Oh, we're calling—really, is that right? Yeah. Mark? Hey, Mark, this is Mayor Hellier. How are you? [9:19] **Mark:** Oh, hello, Mayor Hellier. Thanks for calling. [9:23] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, hey, um, so is this a good time to do your interview? [9:27] **Mark:** It sure is. [9:28] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay, so you've got the Council here in the room, and I'll start off, kind of throw it out, and then we'll just kind of pass my phone here down the line. But, you know—basically record—oh, I'm sorry, yeah, one other thing. So because we had to do this meeting outside of the normal kind of interview process, we had to do it during a work session. So technically, this is a public meeting. There's nobody publicly here, but it is recorded, so just so you know. [10:05] **Mark:** Okay. [10:06] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. So, why don't you just spend a little bit of time talking about your last year as an alternate on planning? You know, just give me a perspective about how many times you had to fill in and what you enjoyed about it, or what were some challenges. [10:23] **Mark:** Sure. Yeah, it's been a great year. Um, I probably filled in seven times and really ended up learning a lot. One of the things that I think I mentioned when we interviewed a year ago was I really thought the biggest watch-out was the learning curve, because there were a lot of new concepts that I really hadn't been exposed to before. But I think, as I said in my application, I think the staff really helped prepare me. I think the content to prepare myself with, the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and the material they sent me, really helped. And then each meeting was like an example of something new. Some things drew more public comment than others. I think the biggest one I saw so far was the most recent one, which was the expansion of the mobile home park. But all those were really great learning experiences to understand how the city works, to understand external things like Met Council, for instance, and how that impacts how the Planning Commission does its job. It's been really helpful and it reinforces itself each time you go to a meeting and prepare for it and ask the questions. I think you get better at it. So yeah, I've really enjoyed being part of the Planning Commission and getting to deal with those issues. So, it's been a good experience. [12:12] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. I'm gonna pass the phone down to Dan Wolter. [12:16] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Okay. Hey, Mark. My question has to do with functioning as a team. Since you've been on the Planning Commission, tell us how well you think the Planning Commission functions as a team, and what skills do you bring to the table as a member of that team? [12:35] **Mark:** Sure. I think that the team worked together really well. I think that expanded a little bit to the staff that helps us—Chris. I think they kind of keep us together with the materials they provide. And then I think where the teamwork really comes is the working sessions talking about the tree preservation plan. I thought it was really helpful because we all bring different experiences. And you obviously know the rest of the commission—many of them have experience in government, with Jason and with the Department of Transportation. And so I think that we do a good job of being very respectful about everybody's point of view as well as being willing to share our points of view. So I think as far as what I bring to the table is my perspective with my business career and the long-term planning that was associated with that, and just being able to be a good listener as well as being able to express my opinion. So, I think it's a very effective group. [13:42] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Okay, thank you. [13:43] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Hey Mark, John Bermel here. [13:46] **Mark:** Hi John. [13:47] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Hey, so a question I have for you is, as you look at the Planning Commission for the next one to two years, what do you think are going to be the biggest issues the Planning Commission will be deciding on and facing and those types of things? [14:02] **Mark:** Great question. I think one of the things that came up in our last work session was the Met Council, this idea of density and how that could change. That's something that really alters some of the planning that had been done, something to be adjusted to. So I think that if the Met Council does impose something with a higher density, I think that could affect how we look at some of the projects that come after that. And then I think the other concept is using remaining parcels of land that aren't ideal—aren't just big rectangles of formerly agricultural land, but little pieces left over from other things that need to be used appropriately and effectively. I think that's a skill that everybody's learning, I think getting better at, but it'll be a part of it. [15:15] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Yeah, thanks. [15:16] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Mark, this is Joshua Lee. I'm curious about your preparation process and how you know you're asking the right questions when it comes to the actual meeting. I have my own process for preparing for a meeting, so I'm just trying to get in your head a little bit on how you ensure that you're prepared. [15:35] **Mark:** Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think I got better at preparing as the year went on. First of all, there are things that are kind of basic definitions that really probably aren't appropriate for the meeting, so I’m sure to email back towards Chris and get some basic questions answered on my first run-through. And as I read it, I just jot down questions as they come up. Typically that helps me rather than trying to read the whole thing through and then maybe go find it again. So I just write questions as I'm reading it, and some of the questions get answered in the document. Great. I get to the end and there are questions for Chris or whatever, and then there are questions that I bring to the meeting. So yeah, that's basic on that process. [16:30] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Appreciate it. Thank you. [16:33] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Hello, this is Michelle Volk. How are you? [16:36] **Mark:** Hi Michelle, pretty good. [16:38] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Awesome. So my question for you, since you've got this year behind you, is: can you help me out and let me know what you think are the three important qualities that a member should have on the Planning Commission? [16:53] **Mark:** Great question. Well, I think first of all, be prepared. I have got to know the other members of the Planning Commission and the city staff, and that is one of the things that they impressed on me, and it really bore itself out—that you really do need to come prepared. Because without that, there's really not a contribution to make. But I also think beyond that, I think number two is being a good listener, particularly where the public is concerned, because they're going to bring insight that you really don't have until the meeting itself. So being able to listen and respond. And I would say the third one is to be a good collaborator, because it really is a group activity, a team activity. So it's being able to bring your point of view—not hang back, bring your point of view—but then also to be able to help the group get to consensus as other people share their views. [18:18] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Oh, thank you. [18:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Well, Mark, as you know, we've got a whole bunch of interviews set up on March 8th, so we'll kind of go through that and then right after that next week we'll let everybody know. But thanks for setting aside some time tonight. Sorry we weren't able to accommodate your other schedule, but this worked out good. [18:41] **Mark:** Yeah, I think it did. Thanks very much. [18:44] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Good. Have a good rest of your week. [18:46] **Mark:** Okay, you too. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye. [18:57] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** By the way, the only one I will say, the last one, Jim King—he is currently at the Lions meeting, so we could—I told him we'd call at 6:30. [19:15] **Justin Miller:** Yeah, that's fine. [19:17] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, he's actually—I ran into him... Hello? Dave? [19:28] **Dave:** Dave. [19:29] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Luke Hellier. Hello. [19:32] **Dave:** Hello, Mayor. How are you? [19:34] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I'm doing well. How are you? [19:36] **Dave:** Good, good. Are you ready to do your interview or am I early? [19:39] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** If that's okay, I'm ready. Okay, so give me two minutes. Just as housekeeping, because of how we're scheduling this, we had to technically do this during a work session, so it is recorded, just so you know. But that's fine. Okay. Well, one, tell me how you're enjoying retirement, and then two, how you kind of thought about the idea of wanting to serve on the Arts Board. [20:06] **Dave:** Sure. It's been over two and a half years already since I retired, which has gone by extremely fast. I'm calling, and I apologize for not being able to interview in person, but we just arrived in Florida here a day or two ago, and I will not be back in time, unfortunately, for when you've got the Saturday interview schedule coming up. So I appreciate the Council's willingness to do an interview over the phone. I very much enjoy retirement, but I'm also looking to get involved in some activities in the community. And for all the other Councilmembers, I not only worked in the City of Lakeville for over 20 years, I've lived in the city that entire time and continue to. My wife and I just recently downsized to a townhome and plan to continue to live in Lakeville in our retirement years as well. [20:53] **Dave:** My interest in the Art Center is that—and I made some notes and am expecting questions along this line—but I've always felt that the Art Center is kind of one of the major, if not the anchor, of the downtown. And as the Mayor and several Councilmembers know, part of my activities when I did work for the city as Community Economic Development Director was to work directly with downtown redevelopment projects. And the Art Center, I think, played a key role in what I consider to be a resurgence and a lot of private investment throughout the last 20 years. And I don't see that changing. [21:38] **Dave:** I think the Council's decision and action to acquire the school district's Area Learning Center building next to the Art Center was a game changer and something I think that was in the back of my mind for a long time. When the opportunity came, I think it's fantastic that the Council, working with the staff, came up with the way to make that acquisition happen. I think it's just made a significant impact and provided, obviously, a lot more facility and classroom space and not having to juggle activities between the Art Center and activities at the ALC. But the city basically having both of those buildings and the large public parking area in front has really been a benefit, in my opinion, to the Art Center. [22:24] **Dave:** I think the future is bright. And, you know, I know the former Art Center manager now is head of the Parks department, and Joe did a great job at the Art Center. I know he’ll continue to do a great job as Director of Parks and Rec. But I think the future is bright. There's a lot of things—I guess I come to it not with a significant art background, either performing or other art forms, but I certainly take an interest, and I think it's a facility that adds to the quality of life in Lakeville. It offers residents an opportunity to be exposed to different types of art activities right in the community. And with that, I'll pause and see if the Councilmembers have any questions. [23:44] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, I'll pass the phone down to Councilmembers Wolter and Bermel, who are sitting to my right. [23:51] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Hi David, Dan Wolter. And my question has to do with teamwork. Your experience functioning on a board or commission requires functioning as a team. What do you bring to a team setting, and what's your view of teamwork? [24:10] **Dave:** Well, this will be in a different role. I was more in staff support for boards and commissions for most of my city career, and now I'm kind of on the other side of the table as an advisory board member working with staff and coming up with recommendations to forward to the Council. But it's about building consensus. Obviously, there's going to be a variety of opinions. I know several of the current members on the Art Center board and think that there is going to be an opportunity to have healthy discussion and debate about specific aspects of activities and programs that the Art Center is going to be pursuing in the future or decide whether to continue to pursue now. So I think building consensus—obviously that was part of my role as a staff person, to work with the Economic Development Commission or the Council or the Planning Commission on developing consensus and listening to all viewpoints and hopefully reaching a consensus on a positive outcome or decision. [25:29] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Hey, Dave. John Bermel here. Quick question for you. Just in terms of the next year or two, what do you see as the big issue or issues that the Arts Board will be chewing on? [25:46] **Dave:** That the Art Center updated their strategic plan. I have not had the opportunity to spend a lot of time reviewing that document, but obviously that becomes kind of a roadmap of things, programs, and other activities for the Art Center to improve or pursue. I think strategic planning is an important and very beneficial activity to pursue. I’ve been involved in that in other departments of the city during my career there, and I think implementation, pursuing the goals and objectives of the current strategic plan, will certainly be a high priority. [26:28] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Awesome, thanks. [26:30] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Dave, Joshua here. Um, you know, sometimes folks apply to these commissions either with an axe to grind or a big idea. So I'm curious—I don't think it's the former for you—so what's your big idea? [26:52] **Dave:** Well—and I didn't always think this earlier in my career, but the last half, after coming to Lakeville, which was the last 20 years of my 40-year career, there's definitely a nexus between the arts and economic development. I think I kind of bring looking at it from that perspective and trying to provide input or comments, suggestions, ideas that can help build on that. I'd like to see, for example—and I don't know if Joe's in the room, he and I talked about this during the latter part of my time at the city—but I think the other activities taking place, the Farmers Market being one that comes to mind, is how that could be expanded upon and integrated more with the Art Center activities. Whether it involves bringing performing artists into the periods of time when the Farmers Market is going on, I know some other cities have really taken those Farmers Market type activities to another level to make it more than just a place to buy fresh fruit and produce, but to have kind of an artistic or entertaining experience as well. [28:18] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Thank you. [28:20] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Hi Dave, Michelle Volk. [28:23] **Dave:** Hello, Michelle. [28:25] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Um, so in general, can you name three qualities that you think are important for a member to have for this board? [28:35] **Dave:** Well, I think first and foremost, to be a listener—a good listener. And I was asked earlier if I came in with a predetermined agenda, and I certainly don't, but to listen to all aspects of an issue, whether it's information being provided by staff or input from other board members, and weigh all that information before making any—taking any positions or recommendations as a board member. Anyway, as an individual board member, that’s one. [29:20] **Dave:** I think, again, looking at the other aspects of the community—and I certainly don't have any suggestion that it's broken or needs fixing, it certainly isn't—but it is a facility and program that has expanded. I had a recent conversation with Joe about the numbers of people that they're able to take into classes now with the expanded facilities. It just expands the footprint, and I think that can only improve more as we go down into the future of the Art Center and fully capitalize on the additional space and programming that's allowed. [30:05] **Dave:** And the third one, I think, is to partner with other organizations. I think the Art Center has become the epicenter for Pan-O-Prog and for Taste of Lakeville, and I’ve already alluded to the Farmers Market and the activities of the Downtown Business Association that take place, in some cases with the Art Center too. So just continue to develop these partnerships with other organizations, including the school district—you know, they have a facility adjacent to it, or their administrative offices are now left onto there. There's just more and more opportunities, I think, to partner with other organizations. I think that's three. [30:48] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I believe so. Yeah. Well, um, that's our 10 minutes today. We appreciate it. And as you know, we've got the interviews on March 8th, and then we'll make our decisions after that and we'll let you know right after that. Yeah, have a good rest of your vacation, enjoy the Florida weather. Hopefully you get a spring training game in or two. [31:23] **Dave:** Yeah, thanks. See ya. [31:35] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** He was telling me—I ran into him at Sam's last week—and he was telling me that they were doing, like, a mega road trip and ended up in Florida. They were visiting people all over, like, Texas. [31:52] **Justin Miller:** So cool. [31:53] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah. Yeah, I think when we set it up, he said he was going to be in Florida for, like, 10 days. [32:01] **Justin Miller:** Yeah. [32:02] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. So we can call Jim King. He’s a new appointment. [32:24] **Automated Voice:** [Ringing] Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. The person you're trying to reach is not available. At the tone, please record your message. [32:51] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Hey Jim, it's Mayor Hellier. Give us a call when you get a chance to do this interview: 612-237-2551. And if you're unable tonight, that's fine, we'll just work out a time. Thank you, sir. [33:16] **Justin Miller:** You're gonna talk to the people that are here and tell them that you would accept some comments when we get to that agenda item, and without being condescending to them, that when we get to that agenda item, then it's just a concept and... [33:32] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay, but my question is, depending on what we do with it, do we even need the comments? [33:41] **Justin Miller:** Yeah. So this one, I want to stretch a little bit differently. I think we should have a conversation first, because if we go in a direction that I think they really don't like, it's going to change the tone of the comments. I want to take the one on 210th first, because my understanding is that is potentially a plan, and the one on the Warwick property is more of like a concept. [34:18] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** That was a good... oh, and then I have one more question. Am I on the DBA list? [34:25] **Justin Miller:** Yes, I think you are on the list. [34:28] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I never got notice on—sporadically. [34:31] **Justin Miller:** Sporadically? Okay. I think that they may have some exact meetings right now about the Food Truck Festival. There are some differences amongst the DBA members. [34:44] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, thanks. Still recording? Yeah, okay. I just want to make sure. Do they also put the city on that list for calling a meeting? So Justin would know about it? [35:10] **Justin Miller:** Yeah, okay. I'll just let them know for the first time when they call one. [35:15] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah. And I have to check if she's still the chair or not, or if they had a transition. Excuse me. [35:56] [Pause in recording] [36:37] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, so this trip I'm taking, I was supposed to do last week, but the Toronto crash backed up all the flight crews. And so, like, 4:00 in the afternoon, they delayed my flight to leave Minneapolis at 12:40 a.m. And so I told my traveling companion, like, "This is going to get cancelled." And by 7 o'clock, it was cancelled. I wasn't going to get to Bismarck at 3:00 a.m. either. I know where you plug in. Did you pick these out? [37:18] **Justin Miller:** No, I wasn't here when they built Middle... [37:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, I'm just going to... yeah, it was before me. I’m gonna have... I mean, it’s 6:37. Are you guys okay with me bringing... no, yeah, if he calls, then... I’m not rushing anybody. Just cut it close. High everywhere. [38:38] [Music playing] [38:45] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** You got your name written on your chest, Josh. You can sit up here with me. Okay. [39:35] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay, so we have discussion items ahead of us. The first is Commercial Site Zoning Review, and we've got two different ones we're going to look at. The first is 210th and Juniper. So I'll turn it over to Tina to kind of tee this up. For those of you joining, this is by Trinity Church Lakeville South. Go ahead. [40:15] **Tina Goodroad:** Thank you. Yeah, members of the Council. So as the memo explained, we have a couple of sites that we wanted to get some preliminary input from you from a land use and zoning standpoint. This is often initiated—we have these conversations when we start getting calls, property owners are interested in selling their property. We hear a lot from people who are making proposals on property and have different ideas for how the property might be currently guided or currently zoned. So that is why we are coming before you on a couple of these sites. [41:00] **Tina Goodroad:** When we start seeing a consistent pattern where more and more people have interest in a certain property for a certain reason, it really becomes that first step to share that information with all of you and then really determine if there is any interest for a potential change. We are not talking about any kind of specific development proposal whatsoever tonight. We do not have an application. This is a preliminary conversation on a couple of these sites, or these two sites tonight. [41:35] **Tina Goodroad:** We did get some assistance from Josh McCune to my left, of Measure Group. It's his role to work with cities as well as with developers and kind of find that match, do that site selecting, and help make sites work for future development. And then on the one site that's on your screen, he does have a developer—I'll allow Josh to introduce him—who is interested in that property. [41:59] **Tina Goodroad:** So the first one is the 210th Street site. This is south of 210th, north of Juniper Way, right next to Trinity Church. The property is zoned and guided for OP, Office Park. Again, we've had numerous conversations with the property owners over the years; they've been trying to sell this property for a long time, but it has a lot of constraints for a traditional OP site or for industrial development. [42:33] **Tina Goodroad:** There is the location, and you can see the context of the site broadening out. If you recall, there is a triangle to the south that was approved for the Likewise industrial building. It's a completely different type of site in terms of topography and so forth than the one outlined in yellow. And then you can see the Trinity Church and then to the south the dental property. And again, here is the zoning map and then a conceptual plan. [43:08] **Tina Goodroad:** Again, conceptual plans are often created so that we can have that conversation, so the Council can understand what a different type or variety of development pattern could be created there. This is not a development application, I just want to make that very, very clear. But I'm going to turn it over to Josh to kind of summarize what he sees as challenges, what staff sees as challenges, and what might be a solution. [43:35] **Josh McCune:** Yeah, thanks Tina. Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, my name is Josh McCune with Measure Group. You did a great job of kind of introducing what my business does, which is really kind of identifying opportunities in areas of, I would say, high development activity and determining: is the current zoning and guidance something that needs to be looked at in order to facilitate development in the future? [44:03] **Josh McCune:** So tonight, with this particular site, there's a couple of things that are really difficult with regards to the current Office Park guidance, and even more difficult with what that typically means in the market today in terms of what Office Park is and what it is not. The first of which really is a lot of topography across this site. What we're seeing in terms of the need for or the development patterns with office industrial or office warehouse—or something of what a modern office development would look like—are often looking for sites that, frankly, have less than 50 feet of grade change on it, like this one does. Large contiguous areas of development to make that school of square footage is 100,000 square foot plus in order to be financially viable. And, frankly, the ability to provide additional scale, so they have maybe more than one building or a couple of larger buildings to share a truck dock. [44:59] **Josh McCune:** This site is difficult for those reasons, or is incompatible for those reasons just because of the topography but also the location of a wetland that's located basically smack dab in the middle of this site. So when I'm looking at this particular site and saying, "Hey, if it weren't to be something besides an Office Park use, if it was something different and the City of Lakeville were interested in changing the guidance of the site, what would be appropriate?" And so there's a couple of things. You could look at market-rate multi-family, but the location of this relative to existing neighborhoods maybe wouldn't be as palatable. You can look at it from a pure townhome standpoint. But simply, if we're going to change the density, it's at least worth a conversation to determine: isn't an increased, more high-dense product something that the city would be looking for closer to the interstate and closer to existing shopping? [45:51] **Josh McCune:** As Tina mentioned, tonight's a conversation in terms of what's appropriate or not. It just so happens that I have Jeff Cook here with Norse Companies, who is interested in developing this site, has had discussions with the landowner, has the site largely under contract waiting for the last couple of signatures, but looking to do something like what's shown on this site—or something similar to it in terms of a use—but looking for some feedback tonight over if the Mayor and Council find the current guidance something that needs to be reviewed and, if so, is what we're showing on this screen appropriate in terms of density? So I think that's this site. Maybe I'll leave it there. [46:34] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah. Tina, is there currently access to 70 or is it programmed for that? Because I always know it's very... there would be with County access. [46:45] **Tina Goodroad:** Thank you. Yeah, due to spacing guidelines, there would be some limited access. We were really looking at how this site could develop with the primary access being off of 210th rather than the primary being off of County Road 70. [47:05] **Josh McCune:** I'm sorry, I forgot to mention one of a couple of other planning things, if you'd permit me. [47:11] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yes, go ahead. [47:12] **Josh McCune:** So the reason why the site's laid out like this—and once again, this is just a sketch and certainly can have other discussions—is with that significant grade change occurring kind of on the eastern edge of that property, one of the things that we were trying to do is utilize a building like what's shown as almost a retaining wall and to take up the bulk of a significant portion of that grade change while using the building rather than large retaining walls that are simply excess costs and are not something that's leasable. [47:43] **Josh McCune:** Additionally, the hill off to the east that's located on the church property would do along with the trees on top of it, would do a really good job with screening that height from the adjacent single-family neighborhood. And then the townhome use in this situation would do a much better job of kind of articulating and providing as much flexibility around that wetland and those existing trees as possible. So the thought process is just, basically, utilize a building as a retaining wall and then have a more flexible building type to avoid impacts to wetlands in that situation. That's why this is like this. [48:19] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Once again, it's discussion. [48:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, the other question, Tina, for you that I have: Trinity has been trying to market their excess land. Have you had conversations with them, and would this help their future prospects? Because I just know they've had a big challenge trying to do that. [48:36] **Tina Goodroad:** It very well could. We have not had—you know, kind of taking step by step trying to see the temperature of the Council, but I should have mentioned that. So the Trinity Church, the building is in the RM-1, that orange, but there is excess OP land that, if a change was made, could help that portion of their site develop. [49:05] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Jeff, did you say Cook? Do you want to talk about your concept at all or you just want to listen to what we have to say? [49:11] **Jeff Cook:** Sure. Yeah, good evening Mayor and Councilmembers. My name is Jeff Cook with Norse Companies. I've been in real estate development for about 15 years. I was an owner at Roers Companies for 12 of those years. So recently sold off and kind of started my own venture development company. Specifically worked in the City of Lakeville with Daryl Morey on the North Lake Lofts project right next to the Target at 185th. So I was a lead developer and worked with Daryl and staff to get that project approved. It was a similar state where the city was not supportive initially on multi-family around that area, but if you see what's happened to that area once that apartment went through, it drove some additional synergies with the area. So you saw that MedTech office go in there, you saw another couple of restaurants go in there. So it helps drive and spur more investments in the area. [50:11] **Jeff Cook:** And I feel like that's left a lot better area because of the multi-family developed there. That was 26 units an acre, which aligns with the City of Lakeville's high-density zoning guidance. So it's 8 acres on 26 acres, which is why the 208 apartment units were there. In this location specifically, as Josh mentioned, we are basically under contract. We have a purchase agreement agreed on both sides; it just needs to be executed. So we are under contract with the family on this site. [50:47] **Jeff Cook:** Specifically, with my new venture, I've focused a lot in build-to-rent communities. So I have a 20-acre project up in Maple Grove that's 208 townhomes. That's guided for more basically market-rate townhomes, mainly focused on providing affordable housing solutions for young professionals. In this instance, it's geared towards more active adult 55 plus, kind of creating a full continuum of care campus. With Roers, I developed six full continuum of care housing communities. The closest one here is Havenwood of Burnsville, but it was all under the Havenwood brand—full continuum with Memory Care, Assisted, and Independent Living. [51:41] **Jeff Cook:** Here, initial thoughts—again, we've just been talking very high level with Tina—that it's an active adult community. There might be some services where, with a lot of the technologies now with wearable devices, it can help drive more medical needs as needed. And so there could be that component to it, but mainly focused on providing a community that's walkable for active adults to 55 plus, where they have a variety of housing options from moving from a 5,000 square foot house in Lakeville, downsizing, selling their house, opening that up for new families to come through, and then they move here. It's a little bit smaller. These homes would average around 1,800 square feet, two to three bedrooms. The primary bedroom would be on the main level. [52:35] **Jeff Cook:** But as Josh said, the topography kind of goes—this is the high point up here, and so the grade kind of falls this way. And so we'd use this building with underground heated concrete pre-cast structure to basically act as a retaining wall here to hold that grade. And you can see all the topography lines; there's a lot of grade change here. And so this would kind of hold that grade high and then this would all be kind of more well—you know, less grade change once you kind of hold it all up here. As Josh mentioned, with this wetland right in the middle and the amount of grade change, it's hard to kind of envision a big office building. You know, most industrial building groups are building now are anywhere from 100 to a million plus square feet, which you've seen a lot further down 70 here. So yeah, that's it. [53:48] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** And then what’s... we got density of 13.7? [53:53] **Jeff Cook:** Yeah, about half what the maximum is, right? So 26 is kind of City of Lakeville guidance for high-density housing. So this is, you know, half that. It's just right at the cusp of medium-density to high-density. And so the curb cuts for roadways kind of aligned with the office to the north, and there's existing kind of curb cuts here and here. We potentially work with the county on whether we could make this a full access point; spacing it looks like it, but those are kind of the main points. [54:33] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Council questions, comments? Would this type of development require two access points? Typically, Fire and Emergency likes two access points. It could be a partial access point, though. For example, on 70, if we weren't able to gain the full access point, even if it was a right-in, right-out, that's sufficient from a true traffic standpoint. It’s something we’d have to look into with a traffic study. [55:10] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Um, from a true traffic standpoint, something we'd have to look into, a traffic study as needed. I think my concern is having access, especially even full access on County Road 70. I’m not too keen on adding another crossing point for traffic there, especially with the truck traffic that's coming back and forth. So to me, I'd be more comfortable with this if, even if we needed two access points, that they were both on 210th and that we were maintaining a significant berm barrier between that community and the road. [55:50] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** On 210th or 70? [55:53] **Councilmember John Bermel:** On the berm being on 70, okay. Not necessarily on 210th. So that's just my commentary, that if this were to go forward, I would really be hesitant towards that 70 access point if at all possible. That just seems like a bad idea from a use standpoint. Um, I think it adjacently works well with the church to the east, and density-wise works well with what will likely go in west of there. [56:30] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** For the wetland to the southeast, that's OP-2, but do you look at that area at all? I mean, what could that complex be looking over potentially? [56:45] **Josh McCune:** You're saying the parcel directly to the south of the church? Right. So, I have not studied that parcel. It is something that we would obviously work on with the church in terms of trying to make something cohesive. I would envision, just with the grades being a little bit more favorable in that area, that that would probably be some additional townhomes, honestly. Just because, you know—one, any additional townhomes would ultimately be adjacent to that larger building, which is a good thing for the community as a whole just from a population standpoint. But I would be foolish to be telling you exacts without really a lot more study to it, frankly. [57:38] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Yeah, well, I think that's just a comment in terms of my reaction to what would be adjacent to it. [57:43] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Other comments? Okay, um, I would tend to agree. I mean, I think we've talked with this family a lot. This is a challenging parcel, and for whatever reason, we just can't seem to get it going through the OP. I like the idea of how it's set up with a focus on seniors and active adults and those things and kind of some different types. I think it might be a good fit. Um, I'm gonna open up—anybody in the audience have any comments? [58:18] **Bob Lar:** Bob Lar, I live on 210th Street. First off, just to be a little facetious: this is a community for older people—I hope you're planning to put all the deaf people alongside 70. The noise along 70 now with Amazon and all the semis and stuff like that—it's getting unbelievable. Plus, on the south side down there, you do know you have a recycling process plant down there that redoes pallets and stuff like that, and it's noisy. And my concern is how you're going to control the noise on that south side of that development. And secondly, like you pointed out, that entrance on 70 would not be a good idea. You would be much better off going with two entrances on 210th Street and handling it that way. That would be my only concern with it, is the noise level, because that recycling plant down there is not going away. And if you notice what has developed is the eyesore when you drive down there and look at all the wood pallets and stuff like that and debris that they have out there. It's not exactly something you want to look at to back to work your property. That's all. [59:34] **Public Speaker (Male):** This would be the first senior plus 55 community townhomes in Lakeville that's two-story. In 35 years, there's only one two-story 55 and older community, and they have elevators in each unit. So could you—I'd like you to address that. The comment he just made about the four-lane, the jake brakes in here—you'd want to have a substantial berm there for those residents. I'm just sharing that from a planning perspective. Um, I think that was the only—but if you could just address the two-story units, the townhomes. Like, no senior residents in Lakeville currently have sought two-story townhomes; they want at-grade. And that's why all of them, except for the one I mentioned across from the library, have—they have... Mr. Waterman built those, and each unit has its own elevator for the second level. So they come home, they drive in their garage, they get into the elevator, bring the groceries to the second floor. That was his theory, and it's worked well, and those are in demand—if one ever comes up for sale, it's sold instantly. [1:00:52] **Public Speaker (Male):** So, um, I think that's an important issue. Then the final issue: I wonder what staff is thinking about taking away their commercial zoning and for—and does this force those two property owners next to it to have something other than residential? So it's a serious issue where you're talking about rezoning, changing the comp plan. Those are important issues. But respectful of your points on the geographics, I think this has to be taken into account: does this adversely affect that? If I were those residents and I learned about this, I'd be concerned about devaluing my property. I don't know them personally, I just want to mention that. [1:01:46] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Is that green space right there? Immediately to the west? [1:01:52] **Tina Goodroad:** Immediately to the west goes across County Road 70. [1:01:56] **Josh McCune:** Yeah, I'm looking at it too. Mentioning, you know, in terms of access location and how it might impact that property to the west. I mean, if what we're hearing tonight is, "Hey, much better to have a couple of access points on 210th," we can certainly have that discussion with the adjacent neighbor to determine if an access point is more favorable to them in terms of some sort of shared access. That's probably a better situation from a traffic standpoint anyway. We're hearing loud and clear: "Hey, berm needs to go on 70th." We have a 50-foot setback along 70th right now, so we should be able to accomplish that. It's vegetated and provide some additional noise buffering. I feel confident as a landscape architect we can probably execute that. Your point regarding architecture—I mean, you can speak to it, Jeff—but we're at sketch plan, we're not even at sketch, really. We're super early, but I do know that you had planned on kind of single-level living with a couple of additional bedrooms up for like guests and, you know, when their kids come home for Christmas and whatnot. [1:03:00] **Jeff Cook:** The main level of living would be on the first level of the home. Yeah, the thought is you have your two-car garage main level, you have your kitchen main level, you have your living main level, you have your primary suite main level. So if you want to live all one-level living, this is 55 plus. It's not, you know, 70 plus—granted, a majority of the people that move in are probably in their 60s or 70s—but this provides kind of the best of both worlds. A lot of what you see on the market today is a split level where a lot of your living is up but then you have a basement with a couple spare bedrooms down; it just basically inverts that. So you have one-level living on your main, you have a couple bedrooms upstairs for grandkids, for crocheting, whatever you want up there. And if you really are adverse to stairs, you know, that's why we have a full active adult community with elevators and fitness and amenities and all the fun stuff. [1:04:17] **Adam White:** Hi, Adam White. So, I live at the end of Kensington. In order—like when I was going to high school, I would drive up Kensington, take a right or left on 210th, and then to school. I mean, the traffic there gets pretty congested. I would just say like that's something to consider if you ever drive to school in the morning when everyone's going at the same time and same thing on the way out. You know, just the level of—especially if you're going to have two entrances on 210th. So, thank you. [1:04:47] **Rick Ring:** Are you saying these are going to be slab homes? There's not going to be a basement, right? [1:04:52] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Unless there's a... speakers, get their name and address for everybody, please. Have the Mayor record it. Sorry, go ahead. [1:05:01] **Rick Ring:** Rick Ring, 2085 Italy Avenue, Lakeville. Are you saying—I asked if it was going to be slab homes, and if that's the case, is there going to be a storm room in those homes? Like a pantry or internal room? [1:05:14] **Jeff Cook:** We're just not at that point of design. [1:05:16] **Rick Ring:** No, not an internal room, I mean an actual... [1:05:18] **Jeff Cook:** Understood, like a tornado. Understood. Yeah, we're just not at the point of design yet. And I would just say, I would say a majority of these are probably on slabs, but we might utilize a walkout unit in areas that, instead of building retaining walls, we could use a walkout unit and have a basement that's truly a walkout piece. So, um, just TBD, honestly. I wish I could give you more information in terms of the design of the unit, but it’s not there. [1:05:46] **Rick Ring:** Okay. [1:05:48] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Council thoughts about—we want to see more from here before we have zoning decisions, or...? I’ve probably got an archaic position on this, but I'm concerned about the amount of commercial and OP land that we're rezoning for residential, just with the long-term fiscal issues that's going to create for us with an imbalance in how property taxation works. So I'm—and I understand OP is kind of a placeholder for farmland that we're waiting for people to want to liquidate, or that's the case in the other property we're going to be talking about. But I think that's a discussion that probably should happen as part of the plan process if we're going to be looking at bigger changes in the OP zone. So I'm—it's not a firm position, but I'm not real excited about the rezoning. [1:07:05] **Councilmember John Bermel:** You know, one of the things I thought of when I looked at this whole memo was—and like Dan was talking about—is we've been reluctant to rezone. I understand this isn't commercial, that this is Office Park. So I share some of the same concerns. However, we've also seen tracts of land that have sat for two decades and there's just no interest in developing it as zoned. So I would like to hear a little bit more about the history of this land, and it sounds like it's been available for a while. And so I would like to hear a little bit more about why—and you explained it in the memo, a lot of it is terrain, and the terrain just isn't suitable for an OP. You know, people don't want to put office parks in those types of terrain. But in the back of my mind, I keep going: we've been reluctant to do this type of deal before without a compelling reason. And my compelling reason has usually been because it's just sat for so long and the zoning isn't working. And we've been able to continue to, even if we've zoned to residential, leave some of the original zone. So I think those are the two things that jump out. In terms of the concept, I like the concept, and but I just... I'd want to hear a more compelling case for others. [1:08:44] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** So, my thought process was when I saw these in the packet: no, I’d really like to look at the whole pie at some point. I don't know why we're—I realize that it's coming to us because it's driven by some interest, but I'd rather look at the whole pie and say, "Okay, even though we're mid-comp plan, what are we willing to change as a whole, as a pie, and why?" And that would be a fairly long—you know, it’d be a significant portion of a work session, but I would prefer to do it that way. I like the concept, but I'm trying to—but it's only a piece of the pie, and so I'm not really sure how it affects the rest of it. And meaning: what's the domino effect, positive or negative, for the whole area around there? And most definitely don't want anybody 55 or older trying to get onto 70 one way or another. I just... that, as I get older, I avoid any situation that is going to question my ability to react positively. So, and that... I even dread going through roundabouts, double ones. But so... [1:10:48] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** When you say the "whole pie," do you mean the entire city, or are you talking about around 70? [1:10:52] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** 35 and 70 is like a... I would say a region. I think if we're going to talk about changes and why certain areas should be changed because of topography, etc., we should be talking about it as the whole city, yes. I understand what you're saying. You know, I'm asking for a bigger conversation. If we're only going to talk about this area, then you're only talking a quarter of the pie. And I think because, you know, we're not willing to give up some commercial lands and things like this, and I think we have to really think—yeah, it kind of bites that it sits there for a couple decades, but also have to think about the future and what new things will come along down the pike, and then what changes we make that affect not being able to have those things, etc. But I'm kind of going off in a tangent. I would prefer to look at the whole city as a whole so that we strategically plan a little bit better for some of the little changes. [1:12:12] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Let's see. Council plan is '26. We start—we're going to get... I mean, the Met Council approved their Regional Plan, so we know generally the forecast—formal forecast statements will come out in September. That's kind of our kickoff. So budget for starting that plan in '26, but then it takes like two years. [1:12:29] **Tina Goodroad:** Yeah, year and a half, two years. It'll be due in '28. Lakeville has traditionally always started right away; it’s done way before the due date. But it is a process and it does take time. We are bringing these sites, you know, prior to that because we are—this land has been for sale for a long, long time, and it's been a difficult property. I've asked numerous industrial brokers to look at this parcel, and they all say it's not going to work for industrial. And OP, the way the OP ordinance is structured today, is probably different than it was 10 years ago—I wasn't here then, I don't know—but the way it is structured today, it's basically a fancier version of an I-1. So most of the same uses that are allowed in I-1 are also allowed in OP. People aren't building office buildings other than medical, and we have certainly seen a lot of that, but straight-up office campuses aren't happening anymore. [1:13:31] **Tina Goodroad:** And then when you couple that with all of the other challenges, getting a building like that's in the south triangle, the Likewise one that we recently approved—I can't remember the name of the plot—that site's completely different than this one from the challenges. It doesn't have the same challenges with the topography; it doesn't have the same challenges with the wetlands. And so as you're moving away from some of that OP and industrial area, is this now a chance to shift that land use? And after having those conversations, hearing the pleas from the owners, "Can we change it?" There was a lot of interest in just covering the entire site with townhomes versus introducing some density. And I really like the idea on this kind of a corridor to introduce some density with that. So that is how this concept got created. In terms of the property to the south, we are working very hard with the denim family to shift those unique recycling uses to the south, and there is still 600 acres currently, before any additional expansion of the city, for continued industrial type of development. So that is kind of the history as I know it in only two and a half years for this site and why we're bringing it here now versus, you know, having the property owner wait another potential two, two and a half years. [1:15:13] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Yeah, I guess I was just looking for more of an interim discussion so that we could just see everything as a whole versus just spot... but I can always come into City Hall and do it myself, I guess. But the other thing that I'm slightly uncomfortable with: I like—it's the building that's going to be the retaining wall. And maybe it's just because the drawing's so flat, what I can't... I'm trying to figure out is if the green space next to Trinity were to be sold and developed, that's a really ugly building suddenly to have in the middle. I mean, I don't—to me, I shouldn't say ugly building because I'm sure you'll design it really well, but the backside of it affects what's going to happen on the east of it. So while it becomes really convenient to develop that property to do it that way, um, since we haven't discussed changing the whole area over there to something different, then I don't know. [1:16:47] **Josh McCune:** Yeah, and what it looks like. I'm sorry, if it's something that Council would like to do, a broader review of how this site impacts maybe the Trinity Church parcel—we obviously would not want to show up with some sort of concept without having a discussion with Trinity Church as well. But whether it's this developer or someone else developing that piece south of Trinity Church, you know, how that would fit together. I would need to spend some time on that and take a look at it. I hear you in terms of like, yes, you're in that situation, you're going to have an exposed corner of that building, but I could make an argument that additional development then of some sort of step down in scale that's adjacent to it would be a better situation than leaving it open, frankly. So I get it, I hear you, like, we need to be cognizant of that and paying attention to that as the—if the site were to move forward, but I don't have enough information to have any sort of intelligent conversation about how that would and would not fit there. [1:17:42] **Josh McCune:** I just know that we—if given an opportunity—we could have that discussion at a later date. What I don't want to have happen today is the worst thing that we can come away from this meeting, frankly, is maybe that it's something that we might look at, you know, a reguidance or maybe we would be entertaining some sort of increase in density. Because that leaves someone like Jeff kind of in limbo of, like, "Hey, I'm about ready to close on this land," or "I'm under contract, what do I do with it?" Because we know that the current guidance is not something that's marketable. So that's the... and Tina did a good job of also just kind of adding a little bit of color of, like, yeah, there's 600 acres to the south of this that's also industrial that's a lot flatter than what we're looking at here. So I think what we're trying to do is say, "Hey, we've got—and there is a potential issue relative to the current guidance not being something that you're going to see, especially in lieu of a much more straightforward path for that use type further to the south." And then what do you have in the middle? It's kind of a donut unless we address what that use would be that could kind of accommodate the grading and the wetlands and all the other challenges. [1:18:55] **Josh McCune:** And so I'm just—that would be what I'd say is, like, I understand your perspective, Councilmember, I really do, of wanting more information and wanting to look at this as a whole. Unfortunately, that would be a difficult task for a single developer to look at, wanting to look at development of this parcel which he has under contract. [1:19:18] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** I get it. No, I guess I was trying to figure out a way for us to open up opportunities for Tina and her staff because we had already agreed to certain areas that we would be willing to change an open status to something else because of the development that's taking place around it. But to look at the city as a whole: where are these areas? So that they could be marketed sooner than concepts coming this way and we're piecemealing. I guess I was just trying to figure out a way to be a little bit more proactive than reactive. [1:20:00] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Now, the concept of a senior community, like how this is laid out and that it's something that's contained and it's something special for the people that are living in there—you know, kind of like a homeowners association type of living for them—I'm all for it. I think it's beautiful. The wetlands is going to, you know, make some great opportunities for quality of life in those townhomes, etc. So I just want to make sure that what we're doing—so I like the concept, I just would like to be able to make sure that we're not causing an issue. [1:21:00] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** My take on it is, I think it's because we've seen this kind of industrial area—and is the OP still right there? I don't know. But I do know that development on this parcel is going to help push redevelopment at 70 and mixed-use area, which we need. And so if this is a way to help push redevelopment—you know, Motel 6 and all these other areas—I'm willing to have more conversations about it because that, if you think long term, having something here is going to help drive that. So if we don't think that it's going to be OP and it's something like this, then that's a conversation we need to have. [1:21:46] **Justin Miller:** Mayor, if I might. I know there's been a lot of questions about the design and all that. Really, the question before you tonight is: are you comfortable with the idea of changing this zoning from—or the guiding from—Office Park to residential? That's the question that they need to leave this room with tonight. That does not mean that if you nod your heads tonight that you're giving approval to anything. All right, there's a whole long list of things that still has to happen before they would even get close to bringing this back for further review. So I think, you know, this just shows what could be on the site. They clearly heard about some concerns you have about whatever goes on the site, where the access is, and things like that. The policy question is: are you comfortable with the notion of changing this from an Office Park guiding to a residential guiding? [1:22:45] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, and I didn't hear a majority or consensus or anywhere near for that unless after a conversation people felt it moved. I just don't want to pick this just right now. [1:23:05] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** You're not picking this. You're just changing it from OP to... [1:23:09] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I think I agree with the topography and the things that are wrong. I agree. I just don't want to pick one area and change it without looking at more of the area, make sure that I'm picking right. [1:23:25] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Yeah, no, and I get what you're saying. I think, but it's picking winners and losers. I get that. I mean, I think when we go through a comp plan, we're going to run into a lot of situations like this where some zoning is going to change probably pretty dramatically just based on—I mean, if the west side of 35 continues to develop the way we think it will, it changes all sorts of stuff. The biggest challenge, though, is we've always talked about: when you lose commercial, it's probably not coming back. And we said—it's sad to say, it's almost unlikely. It's impossible? It's unlikely you're going to take some zone residential and change it to commercial, right? Right. [1:24:08] **Councilmember John Bermel:** So I get where you're coming from for that, but if you look at this parcel by itself and not in that kind of pie, I get what you're saying. But I may—I've heard kind of three votes in favor of: "We need to look at it further and make sure we're doing the right—we're good stewards of the land because you're rezoning from Office Park to residential." And so I completely understand that concern, that you want to be good stewards for the community and not set it up long term to the detriment of the community. And I think the zoning law allows you that leeway to look at specific sites due to site constraints. I think this is a perfect example where we're bringing forth the zoning and the comp plan, and it's acting as it should, which is you guys are loosely saying, "This area we think will be Office Park," but for if there are site constraints—and here we're coming to you saying there are site constraints. It's been on the market for 20 plus years, and nobody has come forth and said, "Let's build an Office Park here." [1:25:21] **Councilmember John Bermel:** And I'll say to you, I think it's really up to you because what I'll say is we've had conversations in the past where we've kind of been this way and then denied it. So if you're willing to continue to spend money to come up with some more detailed plan, I think we probably would look at it. But you know how much time and effort do you want to spend if the minds are changing, I guess. [1:25:47] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** I would like to have more conversation. I'm leaning towards I like the idea, so I'm leaning towards that, but I can't get there because I don't know my domino effect. So if I take the Mayor's suggestion then—well, he didn't suggest it, but if I narrow in on that whole area, the 70 area, and we have a strategic discussion about—somebody needs to go and tell me where all the other areas are where the land topography is da-da-da, and you're going to probably throw out some different ideas that the OP isn't going to work. This was similar when the neighborhood was being built right now by King Park, across from the police station—that was OP, went through a similar kind of process. Now, that was much less density than this, but it was the same kind of situation where we just were not going to get an office to build next to King Park. It just wasn't. [1:26:49] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Is that the only options? Excuse me, sorry. [1:27:03] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, my other concern that we brought up with this land owner before is that really the most likely use in OP is light industrial. And without full access to County Road 70, that traffic is going onto 210th. And as someone who lives two blocks away from there, I don't like industrial traffic coming onto the residential roads. So as I see this, I am looking at this favorably because of the type of traffic, and with the right adjustments, I think it can work well for this particular site. Because as Councilmember Wolter talked about, I'm not too keen on changing districts too quickly without full review. This one, though, has really been looked at a lot, and I think it needs to be changed to be appropriate for really any development. So that's kind of where I'm at with it. [1:28:15] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** I'm... I mean, if you want kind of a "where I'm at" moment: I say the default is don't like to make changes, but I've been convinced before. And I like the concept for this area. I've heard now that this has been 20-some years, but I still—in terms of just wanting to switch it, I kind of like what Councilmember Volk is talking about just in terms of wanting to make sure we aren't just doing this kind of—willy-nilly isn't the word, because we plan well and we execute well. But, "Okay, here's an opportunity, and here's an opportunity," and then all of a sudden you do two, three opportunities and you realize that you should have taken a bigger look at what's going on. So I'm open to it, I guess is the way to say it. I've been open to it. I changed my mind on a couple other ones because I really like the use that's proposed, I really like the layout, and the history of the property—I'd rather see a property used than sitting there. And so it just doesn't make sense in my mind to have it sit empty. So I just... for these types of changes, I just want to see a really good case for why this just is not going to work, and I'm hearing that. [1:29:40] **Councilmember John Bermel:** So I think if you want to keep working at it, we'll have a conversation. I think obviously staff understands that we want to have some sort of inventory to understand where we're at from OP. And I mean, we are getting to the point where there's—I keep saying there's very few commercial developments, but when you have the topography... [1:30:08] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** And I don't know if you want to—it might be helpful—but if engineering or something can kind of give us a sense of, "Okay, this has been zoned OP, it's flat, we think it works; these are going to be the challenging sites." You can create, you know what I'm saying? Because you know, you think about—there's a half a dozen I can think about that are like that. If they were easy, they would have been done a long time ago. [1:30:40] **Tina Goodroad:** Yeah, I mean we can do that pretty easily. The vast majority of the Office Park zoned property is within half a mile of this property here. There's some spots across that are—the one you're going to talk about next that's half and half. There's a manufactured home park that has that designation that's built, and then there's where Lifetime is—that's Office Park. So all the undeveloped Office Park property is in this area. And some of them have challenges, like the one across from 210th has some covenant stuff on it on how it's developed. And so, yeah, I mean the heyday of Office Parks... now, granted, some of it doesn't have utilities yet, some it's not the Musa, but something happened between 2018 when we did our last comp plan that really hurt the future of the Office Park. Suburban Office Park is going to look different. Okay. [1:31:38] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** No more public comment. [1:31:40] **Public Speaker (Male):** One more... [1:31:44] **Public Speaker (Male):** First, I want to compliment Tina Goodroad in her efforts to get the denim property immediately across to relocate on their property to the south. She's worked tirelessly for a year, and each time you think you're getting closer, it doesn't happen. The reason that that's an important issue for you is that these residents currently, from the largest wood processing system in five states, generates air ambient qualities that are not conducive for a person to live near. I'm just—I want you to be successful. My comments earlier about two-story 55... I want you to be successful. And I appreciate what you do, because that's what I do for a living. And that's what I've done when I was... when I was the Vice President of D.R. Horton Minnesota. So I talked about the berm based on the DB—the noise levels here are pretty significant from Councilmember Volk's point; that has to be addressed. You can't leave those people making an assumption that now their property is going to be residential and as opposed to what it is. I mean, that's just a logical scenario. You haven't told us: is this market rate? Are these market rate? Okay. No subsidies? Because that would be of concern to the people that are in this room tonight. [1:33:15] **Public Speaker (Male):** Has there been discussion, Tina, about access to this property from the current intersection at 215th, which is a full intersection which could be signalized, which could serve it—may be able to serve this? [1:33:38] **Tina Goodroad:** 215th is... so I think you should look at 215th as a likely intersection which currently exists, and a full intersection is already approved by the county, so you don't have that hurdle to overcome. And I think that has merit, and I think that would be—help me out, Tina, that would be down in this area, correct? [1:33:55] **Tina Goodroad:** Correct. [1:33:57] **Public Speaker (Male):** Okay. I appreciate that. But on the flip side, that investment might yield the kind of access that would benefit this opportunity. So you've answered my questions, and I think we want people to be successful. And I think you've offered a concept—do you need 14 units an acre to succeed? You don't have to answer that. [1:34:25] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. We're going to move on to the other concept, and this is the Warwick site, which is along County Road 50 and Ames area. [1:35:10] **Tina Goodroad:** Real quick, she said, "Do I need to get out?" We just need to think. Somebody's trying to get in on Teams real quick. [1:35:22] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. [1:35:48] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay, so thanks for that discussion. So we'll move on to this one. I'll have you kick it off. I think if you could give a little bit of background on how this kind of came up and so forth, and then we'll have a conversation. [1:36:00] **Tina Goodroad:** Yep. And for the audience, this is even more preliminary than the last one. I have no knowledge of a person who has anything under contract, but all of the parcels are for sale that George Warwick owns. So the parcel that's identified in yellow is what we're talking about tonight; it's a 25-acre piece owned by the George Warwick Trust. He also owns the parcel to the north that's vacant, and then the one immediately adjacent to Ipaba—those are already zoned and guided for residential. So all three of these pieces are currently for sale. [1:36:34] **Tina Goodroad:** I've met with the attorney representing the trust; they have numerous proposals on these properties, including the 25-acre piece. So the piece that's outlined in blue is the 25-acre piece we're talking about tonight. It is a split zoning of OP and C-3, General Commercial. It has a little history—again, I've only been here two and a half years, I don't have all the history—but back in 2016, George did sell a piece of property to the city to expand Ames Park. At that time, he requested that no land use or zoning change be made. That expired after seven years, so that expired in 2023. When the comp plan was being done, it was identified for medium density—that's this orange. We couldn't make that change at the time of the 2040 comp plan because of that restriction until 2023. So it's been contemplated in the past for this property to be residential. Again, I've been in communication with numerous builders, developers on this property. We've seen very, very preliminary sketches. The majority of what we have seen as staff is filling the entire site with townhomes. [1:37:48] **Tina Goodroad:** Again, I know all three parcels are ready—they’re ready to choose one of the proposals that they have obtained. So the property will be sold very soon. But again, no specific request, no known developer at this time, and no rezoning request at this time. But because of that, you will be faced with a rezoning request more than likely. So because I was working with Josh on that parcel, I thought I’d want to get his opinion and see what his thoughts were from a development standpoint. [1:38:20] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Don't throw him on... [1:38:22] **Tina Goodroad:** No, not at all. Visuals help, visuals help. And really wanted to understand what is the highest and best use for this property. And it too, like the last one, has some very unique challenges for commercial to work on this site. So I'll let Josh jump into those. I'll move on to—again, concept—I cannot... I'm gonna say that a million times. No traffic study, none of that's been analyzed yet. [1:38:52] **Josh McCune:** Away we go. Perfect. Okay, so I'll reiterate: this is a concept. So, like mentioned, we were just looking at basically, "Hey, what is this—if I knew nothing about the guidance of this, what would it want to be in terms of like, from a commercial real estate standpoint, what is its highest and best use?" [1:39:13] **Josh McCune:** So a couple of things from a commercial standpoint that are difficult. One: the site access is actually very challenging. We've got a signalized intersection at Ipaba and County Road 50, but typically for a commercial development of a scale of 25 acres, you're going to want multiple solid access locations. A perfect example is actually across the street, just north on the north side of County Road 50, where you can see there's a partial access that's located literally almost at the midpoint prior to where it starts to curve. Those additional access points and the visibility are the primary drivers for commercial traffic along with traffic counts in this particular situation. [1:39:56] **Josh McCune:** However, in addition to the access concerns, this site is faced with variable visibility, I guess we would call it, in terms of the railroad car storage that occurs on the south side of County Road 50. That car storage, however intermittent it might be, would impact your ability to attract a national credit tenant that could take down 25 acres of commercial land and parcel it up in a way that either a grocery store or something like that could come that way. And so those are, I guess, the primary drivers of commercial being difficult, in addition to—just frankly, there's much better commercial locations throughout the City of Lakeville than what we're seeing here in terms of traffic count, in terms of visibility of angle—the angle of where you're at on the road and how you're looking at this type of parcel, particularly if you're headed south, it’s difficult. It would be difficult to see deep into the site. [1:40:54] **Josh McCune:** And then, you know, from there it was really like: "Okay, well then what does it want to be, or what type of commercial could it support?" And I could see it supporting something like a daycare or something like a medical office type user that is more of a destination-based use, so the people that visit it on a daily basis or more regular basis are doing so for a reason, because it's providing a service they can't go without, like a daycare or a dentist or something along those lines. And so this parcel basically takes the northernmost or kind of the "hard corner," is what I'd call it, of County Road 50 and Ipaba and provides that type of location. [1:41:35] **Josh McCune:** So as we start working inward, one of the things that is a tremendous asset for this particular property is Ames Park and the ability to have Ames Park be activated by additional residents. Having that in a townhome type development is something that I thought was attractive in terms of the ability to walk out your unit, go for a walk within the park, and basically walk back home without actually providing a need or having a need to go park in that parking lot across the street. I thought that activation adjacent to Ames Park would be generally positive for the parcel. [1:42:14] **Josh McCune:** And then, recognizing that there is a single-family neighborhood on the south half of this site, how can we transition the intensity of the development back towards single-family? And so that's where we're seeing kind of this density step down as we move to the south, going from a three-story unit that's kind of shown in the center of the site down to a two-story unit and then basically at the existing homes just on the south side of 202nd. So that's how this site plan came together. I would say I would reiterate: this is a concept. I'm not working for any developer that's actively looking at this parcel; this is simply me looking at this saying, "Hey, is this something that—how would I do it if I had a developer come to me and said 'what's the highest and best'?" And that's what you're looking at today. [1:43:08] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thanks for that. You know, my initial thoughts—everyone can kind of weigh in—but if last summer, as the first summer of the renovated Ames Park, is any indication of where how it'll be for traffic-wise the next couple years, this type of density is going to put maybe too much pressure on the park. And I get it's walking and so you're not having to worry about parking and that kind of stuff. So I'm not worried about that, and we already have the overflow situation, but you know, when that parking lot is full and there's overflow, that park is full. And it's built as a community park, and that was why it was part of the referendum. And so we want to be able to maintain access for as many people as possible. So I say it all to say is: residential may work here, this density may not, in my opinion. So I'll just I guess I'll leave it at that. [1:44:26] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Other comments? [1:44:28] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Yeah, I... you know, when I first saw the concept, I mean, I have to agree, the large building there just, to me, doesn't sit right. And I think the question is: is the density...? We're back to, "Okay, we're proposing changing this OP into residential." I think residential can work, and I agree with the Mayor with less density. I just really... the building doesn't sit well with me at all. I can see townhomes there. I would love to see—I like the concept of, "Hey, up in that corner, that's a different piece of property." [1:45:15] **Josh McCune:** It is. It would have to be something considered as a part of any development, frankly. [1:45:20] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Is that somebody else's? [1:45:21] **Tina Goodroad:** Yep, just that corner piece. [1:45:23] **Josh McCune:** Yeah, it's a tiny little... but how I looked at it, frankly, is: you're not going to, from any sort of commercial standpoint, if it's going to be successful, it would be on that corner. And so I took some liberty—I apologize if the resident was in the room tonight, it was not meant to be a slight in any way, I just was trying to figure out what the best layout would look like. [1:45:51] **Councilmember John Bermel:** The point that I was going to make is: I like that idea regardless of where it goes. I think this is one of those where we could reduce the density of the housing and maybe fit some type of commercial in there like a... like you say, it's not going to be something that somebody just is driving by goes, "Oh, hey, there's a place, I'm gonna stop." It's gonna be something somebody goes to on purpose. So the daycare works—something that, you know, maybe some kind of grocery outlet or something like that. But I'd like to see less density and more perhaps neighborhood-use type commercial. That's a good concept, and if there's like 100... I just think it's too much density. [1:46:44] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Josh... for me, I think it's an interesting concept. I can't ignore the immediate visceral response from a lot of people to an apartment complex, both in my own home and the emails that I received. So I think that is something that is probably non-negotiable with most people in this room. This is one of those pieces, though, where I wish retail could work, but it's not quite even building out across the street from here. So there are certainly challenges with going forward with that commercial district. The Office Park... I mean, I don't know, I was trying to think of: are there other ways to do like an O-R, like an office-residential transition district use here where there can be some mixed-use? [1:47:39] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** There were some interesting ideas from folks who emailed me about capitalizing on the park a little bit, like is there a boutique sort of like surfboard shop that's on the corner? You know, that might be an adjacent use to the park. So I don't know, I'm not completely opposed to change here, but I'm not in a rush to change it. And I think that we can hold off and put this as part of our comprehensive plan planning process, put it through a few more steps, just to see what the options are here. Maybe there's another creative way to keep some retail somehow. [1:48:21] **Councilmember Michelle Volk:** Using that, because your point about transitioning the housing I think is a good feel for that part of town. I just... I don't know, I'm not quite ready to give it all up yet without some additional investigation. What type of businesses are there out there that are complimentary to...? Let's just say, let's call it a regional park, even though it's not a regional park. You know, that's where the focus should be, is something that compliments the entertainment that's enjoyed at the park, and some additional opportunities that they can get across the roundabout there. You know, something that compliments it all. And so in that case, I'm not ready to give up commercial at this point because there might be some other opportunities for a business to go in there that would be playing off the park. [1:49:15] **Josh McCune:** Are you... I'm just thinking, when you mentioned almost complimentary businesses to a park, I mean in my head, the first thing that comes—I have a seven-year-old, so the first thing I think is like: "Okay, where can we get ice cream as fast as possible tonight?" You know what I'm saying? [1:49:33] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** Competition, right? [1:49:35] **Josh McCune:** So it's like, was it something along those lines? Since I just wanted to make sure—is that the kind of thing that you're thinking of, is more like, hey, you know, something that's more of an attraction to families? I'm just thinking if there's... if there's somebody that's trying to pull something from this discussion besides the fact that, "Hey, we're good without multi-family here," what is it? It seems like you guys are really looking for something to have some commercial around this park that's complimentary, but also understand it's not going to be 25 acres of commercial, likely. Is that right? [1:50:23] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Yeah, and I yes, I think that's fair. Well, again, I'm kind of a plan purist on this. I... it seems to me any commercial piece of land we have in town, we can find a reason why it's not developed now. So I don't like looking at this in isolation. You know, the part that's OP fits into what we were just talking about. I think it should go to... I'm definitely averse to giving up the commercial area. [1:50:52] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I think the easiest thing to answer your question, Tina, when they talk about three parcels—we encourage that RM-1 that's already zoned to be the first parcel, because that's Warwick, right? [1:51:08] **Tina Goodroad:** If you can see on the north side of... everybody knows what I'm talking about. So the RM-2 that's for sale, and this is for sale, and then all of this. And then he has a few other scattered pieces that are... one's largely wetland we're grappling with. But I do see all of those being sold very soon. [1:51:30] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Tina, could you say what RM-1 and RM-2 means? [1:51:34] **Tina Goodroad:** They're just different levels of medium-density townhomes. Yep, townhomes. Now, that doesn't mean someone may not come in and ask to down-zone and do small-lot single-family versus townhomes. I don't know. Again, I don't know who all the different proposals are; I just know they have a lot of them. [1:51:56] **Councilmember Joshua Lee:** I would say the one other thing in the OP/C-3 to think about: this is—I've heard for years, and probably a dozen emails—I don't know who has this idea that can pour this kind of money into it, but everybody always talks about some sort of community center, rec center here. Again, I don't know how that works financially, but you know, it's something to think about. [1:52:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Okay. I'm happy to have public comment. Here's what I'll say: we got a lot of emails today. We got nothing in front of us. So I'm happy to have people weigh in, but just let—I'm not trying to be... let’s not be repetitive, or you know, this is an ongoing conversation. I think you kind of know where the Council is on this, but I want to respect the fact that everybody came tonight. So if you have something to share, we can do that, but we'll just have people come. You got to say your name and your address, and let's try to keep it to two minutes. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, try to keep it under two minutes. Just remind them, name and address. [1:53:08] **Adam White:** Yeah, so I’m Adam White. I live at 10603 202nd Street West here in Lakeville. Mr. Mayor, City Council, thank you for hearing us tonight. Appreciate it. It's been long nights for us all trying to get through. So this piece of property, I drive by two or three times a day. I work at White Funeral Homes; I see it across the way all the time. It's a mile and a half from downtown Lakeville, two and a half miles from Uptown Southfork area. It's in between Ipaba and Ames. It's in between Lakeville North and South. It's really a central spot of Lakeville. I really think it's one of the heart spots of Lakeville. And I think that during my time here living here—when I was 11 years old, I was driving up the road with my dad, and we were looking up at the All Saints Catholic Church, and it was all farmland. And he said, "You got to take a look and just remember this, because one day it'll all be houses." And now it's all houses. And 20 years later, you know, I still think about that ride, and I just really think that we need to preserve some of these sections of land that we drive by every day as part of our identity in Lakeville. [1:54:33] **Adam White:** Um, so Mr. Warwick walked into the funeral home about five years ago, and he greeted my grandpa. We were just sitting there talking, and he walked in, and my grandpa got up and shook his hand, and they acted like they were old buddies because they were. And he walked in and gave my grandpa a piece of paper and then walked out. He was with his nephew, and he said... I said, "Oh, who is that?" He said, "That was Mr. Warwick; he comes in and fiddles with his pre-arrangements." So, yeah. So he left. I said, "Oh yeah, you know, he owns a property right across here." And I said, "What is he going to do with that when he's gone?" And Grandpa said he didn't know. [1:55:18] **Adam White:** So for the past six years, I've been thinking about what's going to happen to this piece of property. You know, we sit at the funeral home working all the time; I see it all the time. I understand why people are going to want to develop this property; it's one of the best properties in Lakeville. It's right in the center; it's so close to everything. I understand that his family is going to want to make money off of it, and I understand that it's going to be a profitable venture no matter what it is. But I do think that we need to preserve this land in some sort of way. I think that putting houses there and keeping it residential—I mean, at the very minimum, single-family homes. I mean, I think the worst thing that you could do in that spot is to create condensed housing. So I’ll let everyone else talk about traffic and everything like that, but mine's kind of for the vision of Lakeville land and how I see this property going. My proposal to you, City Council, is to—I would love to see this be some type of community area, whether that's a rec center, whether that's a park, whether it's more park or a parking lot. [1:56:32] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, or more parking for the park. [1:56:35] **Adam White:** You could put baseball fields, football fields. And I don't know about the financial situation of Lakeville or anything like that, but if we have to raise money as a community, I think that just the outpouring from the proposal that they saw online today, that we could actually gain traction on something like that. So I hope that that kind of encompasses how I feel about this property. And, um, yeah, thank you for listening. [1:56:56] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thank you. [1:57:04] **Bradley Anderson:** Have a question. Bradley Anderson on Italy Avenue. Um, what is the urgency for developing this property? I think, you know, these townhomes would be an eyesore. Is there an urgency that we need to know about? Can it just be put off for a while? [1:57:25] **Tina Goodroad:** What I mean is, there's not an urgency from the city's standpoint, but the property is for sale. And when property is sold and a developer gets a property under contract—which is what the Warwick family is trying to do, they're trying to get all three of these parcels in this area under contract—we are then faced with receiving applications. The city can't prevent someone from making an application, and so then that process starts. If that process is for a rezoning, it will eventually become a live application, go through the process with Planning Commission, Council, and so forth. So in order to start prepping and understanding what this property could be is the reason we're here tonight. [1:58:11] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** I think part of it too is, you know, this was not something that Mr. Warwick wanted to sell when he was alive. With his passing, now all of a sudden it's marketable. [1:58:24] **Public Speaker (Male):** He hasn't been dead very long. I'm just saying it's like a week after he passed. [1:58:36] **Public Speaker (Male):** 19081... I apologize for not saying that earlier. Today's a special day from my vantage point. Having worked with George Warwick since 1989, today is his birthday. George—and I just want to make sure everybody knows that George is a very special person. His stewardship of land—he believed in tillable acreage; he always farmed it. And it's because his roots were deep as a farmer. He did yield to the city's needs by giving up his residence, so to credit him with that decision was what makes what Ames Park is today. [1:59:30] **Public Speaker (Male):** With regard to the daycare—I'm going to go quickly. With regard to the daycare which would be immediately adjacent to Progressive Rail, it would be totally inconsistent with the city's past legislative position, which is the rail currently runs in close proximity to Orchard Lake, Keokuk Trail, Middle School, McGuire Middle School, and JFK Elementary, and that's been the position of the city I think for over two decades with concerns. So to me, the daycare certainly fits on the site; I just don't think a play area adjacent to the rail makes good sense. The townhomes that are proposed—the tracks are not denoted on this drive. [2:00:20] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Seriously, I'm... I'm trying not to interfere, but the details don't matter, so I'm not trying to... [2:00:28] **Public Speaker (Male):** Now I'll go over the mega issues and I'll do that very quickly. Tina referenced it—there's a desperate need for a traffic study. Ingress and egress from this site on Dodd is an impossible challenge, and anybody who's witnessed what occurs at that intersection, that T-intersection, it doesn't work. And every day in the morning and every night in the evening, traffic is backed up from 50 all the way down to County Road 70. That's not unusual. So that challenge—I've estimated that this project with 16 units an acre would generate 2,900 new traffic trips a day. 2,900 traffic trips a day just for this development. Not talking about George's property across the street, north of George's estate, across the street from north of... who will fund the upgrade of 202nd Street? It's a rural section with gravel shoulders. Somebody's going to have to write an awfully large check at $200 a foot to fund that upgrade, which is going to be necessary with the additional traffic. But traffic conditions at Dodd would have to be addressed because right now it doesn't function. [2:01:54] **Public Speaker (Male):** So, one of the details—but that's the mega view of this. The other thing that... to your point, Mr. White—there is park dedication that would go with this development. Park dedication that could be in the form of land or cash. So to me, the land scenario has merit concerning the parking challenges that currently exist at Ames. The land would come without a cost; it would be in lieu of a park dedication payment. That's a park and city council decision. [2:02:40] **Dianne Hunter:** Dianne Hunter, Avenue up the street. And I mean, like everyone thinks, I mean, an apartment complex is too crazy. Too many people, too many kids. We don't have... I mean, we can hardly fit kids in the school as it is. Our taxes are always through the roof because it's across from the lake and the park that's constantly busy. Why don't we get some more fun there? Like, has anybody been to a Chicken and Pickle? We could use another business in Lakeville to generate revenue that would still be fun. That's a super amazing restaurant that's fun for families. We need more fun—we don't need more kids. I mean, go down to Lakeville Brewing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday night in the summer, and it's just kids everywhere. It's like a daycare. I mean, we need more of that. You know, like, though, we do not need more houses. We're not getting the tax base. My taxes have gone up—well, my mortgage has gone up $1,000 since I moved here 10 years ago. I mean, it's pushing some people out. You know, we don't need... we got enough low-income housing, I think, and apartments and townhomes already, and we can't... our schools are crammed. I mean, I'm looking for something more fun. You go to other big lakes around the state and there's more restaurants, there's more things to do when you go to the lake. That would be my comment. [2:04:14] **Rick Ring:** Rick Ring, live at 2085 Italy Alley. I live adjacent to the park. My family bought the property after World War II, a lifelong resident. And George has been my neighbor for my entire life. I used to follow him in the fields when he'd be out, and he would literally walk in the fields and pull the weeds; he was really a custodian of the land. And he was never going to sell while he was alive; he wasn't going to see any of that land go away, I can tell you that. On the east side of the park, I know of a particular person who visited George on a regular basis trying to buy land to put a restaurant there—wanted a two-story restaurant that would overlook the lake and have music on the upper deck. I don't know if they're still thinking that way, but they convinced me that George was going to do it. And I said, "No, George likes you stopping to visit, pretty lady, and he likes you showing up." [2:05:01] **Rick Ring:** Traffic study, obviously. I mean, you could end up with a traffic circle at Ipaba and at Dodd. 202nd Street, by virtue of traffic, is purely onto Dodd, a right turn only, all right? That's where we're at right now, and that's always been a cluster and a concern. Mr. White is correct: this is a jewel of Lakeville; it's right in the middle of everything that happens. And unfortunately, that means all the school traffic too, because we have kids on the north side go south, south go to north. And everybody on the south side of 50 and west of the freeway goes to South, which means people are telling their kids not to go on the freeway, so they're coming down 50. That is super busy. How busy is it? I can tell you, my wife was T-boned by a teenager going 50 miles an hour at the intersection of Highway 50 and Ipaba. [2:06:01] **Rick Ring:** So if you put a traffic circle there, I would be happy. All right, I'm going to remind you: I'm a regular customer. I was here a year ago when there was a question about the Kenwood property when the roundabout went in. I was the guy in the room saying, "Don't do it, 50's not ready for it." Have you done a corridor study? No. And then I also said, "Why are we doing this now?" "Because it's for safety." And I said, "Well, if it's really about safety, why aren't we fixing Dodd first, because that's where people are dying, not at that intersection." We did both studies and both of them got moved up, and both of them are fixed, and they've been jewels for our community. There's lots of little things that go on there. It's one of those things where—but when we saw this, it scared the living daylights out of us because that's basically the deepest density in the city and we were going to throw it right smack in the middle with limited access. [2:07:01] **Rick Ring:** Now, as far as commercial goes, yes, there's roads where you turn off and have to go behind, and yes, it's very convenient across the highway, but it's pretty common in other places along service roads and things like that to come off the main road to get access. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe Senator Duckworth is in the process of fixing our railroad car problem, right? We're pretty close. So visibility will not be an issue. And if we went to things like a professional building—like dentists or eye doctors—and things like there are maybe someday a new White Funeral Home. You know, no more competition, okay? Right. Well, in a city of 70,000, you can count on more competition to do those kind of things. [2:07:49] **Rick Ring:** So it's important—I'm really happy that you did this because we got to talk to you before the family got the property sold and got all wound up. Because Envision Lakeville—I served on that task force a year and a half, but we looked at the comprehensive plan; we knew that it wasn't OP, and we felt pretty comfortable where it's at as OP. I understand times have changed, but some kind of a mix would be really nice. And when I look at that picture and I see all those homes right on the 50 corridor—we have systematically moved residences when possible from the Highway 50 corridor because of the noise, the traffic, and also for additional roadways and things like that. You put all those townhouses in, that's a big... that's a big ask on eminent domain. [2:08:44] **Rick Ring:** I would love to see us do some expansion of park. There you go—an expansion of our parks that could be, you know, the restaurant parking. And Luke's absolutely right: when our parking lot is full, that park is full. It really is. And people still show up because they park in the neighborhood and they park over at the school and people come over—they park across the lake at the ramp and they come over on their boats and spend their time over there. All right, and it's a beautiful park, and it's wonderfully designed, really is fabulous design because everybody spreads out in the whole park. But we actually have less green space than we had before we added the extra six acres of parking lot. If you look at it on Google Earth, you can see the difference. But thank you for listening to us. Thanks for listening to us, and there is a lot of minutia. You know, when we were looking at it and going, "Whoa," because I looked at it and I went, "Well, there's 20 visitor parking spots." All right, there's over a thousand people there. That's not enough. Where are they going to park? Well, they're going to park over at the park, right? Or they're going to park down the one-way street or on—where the no-parking signs are. Townhomes—and those are two-story again. You know, somebody leaned over to me and said, "Gee, wouldn't this be a better place for the senior living?" I'm going, "Yeah, probably would." Especially if you put a little bit of retail in there where they could walk. And then I looked at that and I went, "Now, there's... I'm sure somebody's saying that this is a walkable community, but I don't see any sidewalks." You know, those kind of things. And I'm going to end it there, but I really want to thank you for bringing this forward now so we had this opportunity. And I think it's important for you to know that when you come back and rezone, we're really not interested in changing it. If you went with some townhomes on the south side and that transition, I think we could live with that. But I don't think we want to put the highest density of Lakeville, an apartment complex and eight cluster units together, into the neighborhood because it would change the entire character of the center of our city. Thank you. [2:10:25] **Jeff La:** Jeff La... 9... Um, the statements on the earlier... I thought were very thoughtful. One of the things that isn't discussed but needs to be is: we already have medium-density zoning on his other plots. Points that the City Council really needs to keep foremost in their mind: Diversified Economic Development. This is a plot that was laid out for that vision. We go all the way back to Envision Lakeville 2012; that plot is laid out. There's a sketch of what Envision Lakeville envisioned for that property: it was a combined-use plot. It had a few restaurants, it had a few housing developments, it had a lot of green space. It was walkable, it was lower density. And the idea of businesses that could be an asset to the park, like shops, additional restaurants, paddleboard rental—I mean, there's a lot of opportunities there. [2:11:53] **Jeff La:** The other thing: good values for public service. Those type of developments would be a good value for the area, for the park. You mentioned needing a break, slowing down the density before the other neighborhood—you can't forget the other neighbor that's there too that is adjacent to that. We are looking at medium density; we are looking at townhouses. So you add the two other additional medium-density townhouse things, this oversaturates this to maybe a couple thousand extra people. As Bob pointed out, a community center—those type of things are a possibility in Lakeville. We have been asking for them over and over and over again. The way we got Ames Park developed was asking for the money, was getting out there, getting opinion. There is a process to it. It's a process I believe the city has ignored. [2:12:47] **Jeff La:** The schools—I checked on them. Lake Marion Elementary: this whole area is a busing area. They can't walk across County Road 50 and the train tracks. Don't know what the current busing rules on paying for it is. Kids are going to be walking—that's a safety thing. Addresses the safety throughout the community. Higher density creates a very unsafe walking situation. The schools right now, all of them have grades... the three schools that would be in this area, all of them have grades that are at capacity. They have some... they are not at capacity, but it's pretty close. And the last thing I want to remind the City Council of is: Lakeville is considered to be what, the fastest-growing community in the state? You guys have the power to shape that destiny. You don't have to rezone. You can tell George's family, "We're not considering rezoning this," or "We're not considering rezoning parts of this," so they should make that clear to their buyers. You guys have the ability because the developers are here, they're wanting in. So you sticking to your comprehensive plans is a power that you have that most other City Administrations would beg for. Thank you for your time. [2:15:02] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Good. We ready to move on? [2:15:05] **Jeff Anush:** I’ll say one more thing, please. Thank you. I’m Jeff Anush, 19371 Jersey Avenue. Luke, thank you. City Council, thank you. Justin. Um, I agree with all the sentiment from this group, right? This is a crown jewel set here in this area here; we need to try and keep it that way. Justin, you and I met about four or five years ago, I think, and I said, "I got a plan for this," right? You might have thought I was nuts back then, but I still agree that you know, I proposed to put like a big... you mentioned some other stuff there. I put a big slide in there, put a little train track around there or something, something to tie onto Ames Park. Don't just put homes in there. [2:15:53] **Jeff Anush:** I mean, we just approved—the Council approved—the one in 35W and 185th, 1835W by Target. That's been approved, so that's going to be, I don't know, how many more units of people coming in that'll be tapping into the downtown area, which is good for business. But like she just said about the schools: I mean, we are maxed at these schools. I mean, the referendum just didn't go through. I mean, there's a lot of people that are in this area that want to preserve Lakeville for what it is, as an eloquent—we have that chance. You have that chance to make that happen, and I think we need to really think about it. Also coming soon is going to be... Justin talked about that. Now, what does that turn into? Is that more townhomes? Which, if you saw the plot for that, that's a tremendous amount of capacity, I mean people coming in over there. So we got to take a step back and think about what this is going to do and what the city can be before we start changing stuff around. [2:16:47] **Jeff Anush:** And the lake traffic—you talk about safety up here. Safety is a huge deal. And I don't know who mentioned that bit about the traffic out there that'll be created going to that park if it's all townhomes and stuff—they come across, they put their boats in over there. I mean, I live on the lake and I won't even go out there on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. I don't even consider it, you know? If you're going to do it, you better go out early in the morning or late at night; you better go on the weeknights. All that would do would be add more congestion to that whole situation. So, kept it brief. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. [2:17:43] **Public Speaker (Male):** And I apologize because I left this out—I feel it's really important. When you meet people from other communities and they talk about Lakeville, they talk about the fact that we have maintained our business district and that they think that is special, especially now since it's become an entertainment site. But the fact of the matter is that that's the last chance we have with our business district. He said we have businesses across the highway, we have businesses all the way through downtown—that's our last piece that we have for that part of Lakeville. And if we throw in a stack of townhouses and let that opportunity go, we've really missed out. There can be a real viable alternative there. And when people talk... we are one of the fastest-growing cities, and it's not done yet. We are going to need more professional people; we are going to need more businesses; we're going to need more opportunities. And yeah, that's simple, easy, and it's fast, and they can slam it in, you know, in under two years. But why would we give up the last... why would we give up our last opportunity for commercial property in our downtown business area? I think that would really be a huge mistake. [2:18:55] **Jeff Anush:** Go, Mr. White—your business is across the street. You want to see townhomes, or would you like to see fellow businessmen across the way from yourself? I think that's an easy answer. I mean... [2:19:08] **Adam White:** You have more customers dying to do business. [2:19:12] **Jim Stefan:** Last word. Jim Stefan, 103... 102nd Street West. I listened to everybody and it's all great. I pardoned you because this started out as just an idea and a concept. It's like a 180 degrees the other way. "If you build it, they will come." How about George Warwick Memorial Park? That would have been a great—for truck, should have got... that would be a great gift. And he should call his nephew... [2:19:41] **Angela Bon:** Said one thing. Sorry. Angela Bon. [2:19:44] **Jeff Anush:** Jeff... [2:19:45] **Angela Bon:** But I just wanted to mention, you know, about the rail cars—hopefully be out of there—but that if I'm wrong, that railroad track isn't going anywhere. That could potentially be someday for Regional Rail. [2:20:07] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** That’s okay. [2:20:11] **Janelle:** My name is Janelle and I live at 205 Hunton Avenue. Thank you. And um, I moved here several years ago for several reasons, and I'm sorry but I just want to say that I lived here because of your city, because of the expansion, and you know, I needed to slow down. We all needed to slow down. We're at capacity, and if we have too much housing, then that's going to have an imbalance for the whole thing. I've seen it happen in other cities where I've lived, and I've seen it happen now, and I don't think people are very satisfied that it's going... and I think all of us that... everyone that we've heard today, everyone has a level of agreement. [2:20:53] **Janelle:** And so, you know, we represent the city where we live. And I understand that there's important reasons why you would develop it differently, but I don't think we need any more housing. I don't think that... I think we're at capacity for that, you know, as shown by what he just said. You know, maybe we have a Memorial Park. I think that we really need to use that land so that everyone can everyone can enjoy it, everyone can use it. That might live in the... that they might want to build there, because Ames Park is for everyone, not just for a few more people. And if you have more people, I mean, they can build somewhere else and can still come and enjoy the park. And so I think that, you know, you're right, more local people come, there'll be more traffic, and then I won't be able to get... you know, to get to that room area. It will just be congested without the boating. So I really think it's an unjust thing if it happens, because I'm disappointed that there's... I can't even believe that this is being entertained. We just need to slow down because this is not a smart idea. This doesn't look good for our city. And you know, people are talking about how Lakeville just needs to slow down with residential. We want this to be a quiet community; we don't want this to be, you know, something that's just a like an addition of the bigger city. That's just my opinion. I just... I like the culture of Lakeville the way that it is now. Thank you. [2:22:25] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thank you. Okay, we now move on to items for future discussion. [2:22:31] **Councilmember John Bermel:** Okay, I do... do you know in the future we're gonna have a work session at all on the station or a recap from you? [2:22:38] **Justin Miller:** Yeah, so at some point we will. We're not there. [2:22:45] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Committee City Administrator updates? [2:22:48] **Justin Miller:** You’re welcome, thank you. [2:22:53] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah, thanks. Okay, seeing... I'm gonna move into closed session. So I'll take a motion. [2:23:13] **Councilmember Dan Wolter:** Yeah. [2:23:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Yeah. [2:23:35] **Justin Miller:** Yeah, they are they... [2:24:13] **Mayor Luke Hellier:** Thank you.