This transcript features **Joe Peterson** (City Councilor) acting as the Chair for the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, with staff reports provided by **Eric Johnson** (Community Development Director). [0:00] Joe Peterson (Chair): all right good evening everybody we'd like to welcome you to the city of hermantown planning and zoning commission meeting for april 12th 2022. it's currently seven o'clock in the evening we're going to begin with a roll call of members uh corey colquist here valerie roulette here samuel clark here beth winslow here buckley simmons here dante thomasoni here and john geiser is coming in remotely correct that is correct thank you sir second this evening is the approval of this evening's agenda can i get a motion on that please [0:46] Valerie Roulette: i move to approve tonight's agenda [0:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): we have a first can i get a second [0:46] Buckley Simmons: second [0:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): call in favor aye motion passes number three this evening is the approval of the minutes from the march 15 2022 regular meeting can i get a motion on that please [0:46] Valerie Roulette: i'll move to proof [0:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that can i get a second [0:46] Dante Thomasoni: thomas 22nd [0:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): all in favor hi hi motion passes thank you very much for that uh fourth up this evening is public discussion is there anybody here to speak on anything that's not on this evening's agenda sir if you come on up state your name and address for the record please we'd appreciate it [1:34] Tony Marino: uh my name is tony marino 3760 johnson road and i'm here to talk about the planned unit development for the kings creek i watched with a lot of joy when i saw jay zeargan come up to the city council meeting on march 21st and stated that he was going to be submitting a new plan for approval by the city and i'm assuming that's going to be coming before this committee before it goes to the council and in his plan he's going to be eliminating the carlson road connection to the johnson road and putting in a ham hammerhead design at the north end of the keene creek road i didn't know what that was i've done a little bit of research on it and it it's a great example of a developer working with a neighborhood to meet their needs you know the johnson road is narrow it's not designed to support the extra traffic but the hammer head design works extremely well with what our neighborhood would like to see and that's for the parks and recreation department to move a section of trail the multi-use trail that's designed from there and use the carlson road section and connect it right through the hammer head and right onto the north-south section all we need now is the city to work with it and we've got a win-win-win for everybody our neighborhood would be enhanced with a nice access to the trail that could be used as an emergency entrance into the hammerhead uh if necessary um it's just i i was just really glad to see jay zeirden take take this stance he listened to what we've been saying and and also not only what we've been seeing but i think he took a second look at the johnson road because he even mentioned it that he didn't feel that the johnson road was up to shape for adding adding this other road to it so anyhow i just hope that the city through this committee and eventually to the city council would uh just take all this in and look favorably on us thank you for that sir [3:53] Joe Peterson (Chair): we haven't seen anything yet but as soon as we do we'll take a look at it [3:53] Tony Marino: either i just like i said googling it like i we had talked to him numerous times about putting a cul-de-sac in there at the end you know to be able to come across it with his resources and knowledge of developments you know he came up with the hammer handle her hammerhead design and it it just blew my mind it was just it's just a perfect fit in my opinion i'm not an engineer but i lived in the neighborhood since 1976 and it's just a perfect fit for our neighborhood and and the community itself [3:53] Joe Peterson (Chair): well we'll gladly take a look at it when it when and if it comes before us [3:53] Tony Marino: yeah i'm guessing it'll be next month so cool i'll be back very cool sir thank you for your time tonight [4:40] Eric Johnson: and actually if i could follow up with that we are working with the developers engineer expecting submission to come in sometime this week and assuming that does that would fall into the may 17th planning and zoning meeting and then be at the june 6th uh city council meeting and just for the members of the audience uh planning and zoning in uh and applications like this is a recommending board they're not a proving board uh the city council is the um the actual uh group that would take action on an application in that case so i said we're expecting that uh probably come in next couple days and looking at potentially a may 17th meeting for that [4:40] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that eric uh again we're on the public discussion section of our meeting this evening is anybody here still want to speak on something that's not on this evening's agenda not seeing any we'll move forward to 5a it's an application by atk enterprises inc for a planned unit development for the construction of a 60 by 202 storage building and a 40 by 104 storage building to be located at 4540 norway pine place the property is located in a c1 office light industrial zoning district eric what do you have for us on this one this evening [6:02] Eric Johnson: i'm bringing up the graphics associated with that so what we have this evening this is a uh it's a continuation of a planned unit development that had been approved back in 2020. uh this is a six and a half acre property located at 4540 norway pines once again back in 20 a pud for preliminary and final was approved at that time for the construction of two buildings on that property uh what i'm showing here this is a the map of basically what has been done already it's these two buildings uh the applicant has also uh constructed the driveway into the property paved around these buildings and constructed the detention pond for that that detention pond was sized not only for the work that had been installed at the time but also future work which is coming before us this evening so what the applicant is looking for this evening is a once again a another preliminary and final pud for the construction of two more buildings uh one would be a 60 by 202 foot building located in this area right here the other one is a 40 by 104 foot building that's located in this section right there so uh what we're looking for this evening is basically a recommendation or guidance from this group on the plan due to development for these two particular buildings here their pavement would be extended to those two buildings so there's continue to be a paved site that way once again the pond is already in place and has been sized for this proposed work that's before us this evening here as well the one thing that the applicant is requesting is in lieu of the 40-foot rear yard setback along this area right here they're requesting a 30 foot rear yard setback what that allows is to get some more room between the existing building and the proposed building to the north just for people to get in and out of those bays and just swell for um just care and maintenance of it from a snow removal standpoint that way the buildings are proposed to be similar in design the ones that are already existing in place and that's shown on the screen right here once again these are essentially mini storage products they are going to be for rent there's not any ownership envisioned for those once again the owner um andy klatsky of atk storage he will be the sole owner owner of this and is the applicant this evening the property to the north that the applicant is looking for the reduced setback that is owned by the city of duluth really in coordination with the airport land up there so i don't really anticipate that that land ever being built on from a development standpoint [8:19] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that eric commission members any uh questions on this so far this evening eric does airport zoning come into play at all [8:19] Eric Johnson: not on this site it just falls within the sea zoning and what that is that's strictly a height thing [9:04] Samuel Clark: eric sam just for clarification since a planned unit development was already approved what's the purpose of this second [9:04] Eric Johnson: when we approved it uh initially we had a stipulation that any future phases need to go through the process again is originally at that time the applicant was looking at the idea of potential condoing out of the future building that he could sell off a unit to a person to buy and in that case there was something new to the city and we thought at that time the best way to control that is through a planned unit development so honestly if this would have uh if the applicant would have come in this evening with a standard setback of the 40 feet versus a 30 it would have fallen under a special use permit so uh really the only trigger of the pud this evening is the decreased setback of 10 feet [9:51] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members any other questions for eric before we uh open it up for the applicant is anybody here this evening representing the applicant could you come on up state your name and address for the record tell us a little bit about what you got going on back there [10:20] James: hi james james with atk um exactly what you said you stated exactly what it's going to be uh our only request is for the additional 10 feet of setback um to increase our space between the buildings so for maneuverability and so forth um they have changed from our concept of doing condos to the rented space um and that's pretty much it it's a 202 by 60 by 16 foot tall uh the height is going to be very similar to the other buildings as they stand and um that is pretty much it [11:08] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members any questions for james this evening are these buildings open to any kind of storage cars boats [11:08] James: yes lawn furniture whatever anything yes [11:08] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you very much we'll let you know if you have any other questions we'd like to open 5a up for a public discussion this evening at 7 11. if anybody's here to speak on this matter please come up to the microphone state your name and address for the record not seeing anybody coming up we will close the public hearing at 7 12 p.m commission members any other questions or comments on 5a this evening not hearing any i look for a motion please [12:31] Valerie Roulette: mr chair i motion to approve agenda item 5a as stated [12:31] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you very much can we get a second [12:31] Buckley Simmons: with a slap second [12:31] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that all in favor aye anybody opposed not hearing any of the motion passes thank you very much we're going to move on this evening to 5b it's an application by porter business development llc for a rezoning of a 2 acre parcel located at the southeast intersection of stebner road and arrowhead road the parcel is currently zoned p for public which is a with a proposed rezoning 2c commercial eric what do you have for us on this one [13:19] Eric Johnson: thank you uh this property is um two acres of the overall 74 acre property associated with 4798 miller trunk highway this is the existing sunrise cemetery there back in 2019 uh the applicant bart porter of porter development had approached the city about uh potential rezoning of this uh corner site these two acres here this is the intersection of steubner and this is arrowhead road uh at that time uh the applicant was really just looking to rezone the easterly uh one acre of this property at that time um it was not approved by the city council due to the fact that it would have been construed as spot zoning there was not an adjacent commercial land use uh to that particular property we had said to the applicant at that time if he would ever come forward with a two acre property what he's doing today in that case he then abuts into that commercial land uh located up to the north and west so at that point uh since its contiguous zoned property that it would at least meet the requirements from a zoning standpoint uh so as i had mentioned this is uh two acres uh in the corner of this property uh right now it's essentially a green field if you drive by to some some boulders things like that in there but for the most part it's it's pretty well graded out that way the applicant is envisioning two one acre properties that he's been in discussion with some potential medical based users uh within that area as of right now uh there's no formal application that's come through for the use of those two properties uh if it did so it would come back to the planning zoning as a commercial industrial development permit and at that point um the pnz would be able to review that and then they would take action at that point as a commercial industrial development permit only requires planning and zoning approval does not require city council so this evening all that we're looking at is the uh rezoning of the two acres in that corner as shown on the screen and the yellow there from the p public to the sea commercial [14:52] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that eric commission members any questions or comments for eric on this so far not hearing any are we does the applicant happen to be here this evening serge anything you wanted to say to us or walk us through this yeah if you want to come up please state your name and address for the record and give us a little rundown on what you got going on here [15:17] Bart Porter: good evening i'm bart porter hi on sunrise funeral home cemetery and border business development uh been looking at this piece and i finally had actually have two dentists approach me one's on oral surgeon and one's a regular dentist so i already got them both pretty much under contract so if we get approved then they're going to move forward probably with processing one's already got a design going on a bill and the other one's working on it so they're ready to uh pay hermantown tax dollars so um any questions for me but uh i think i think it's going to be a nice addition to that corner [16:02] Joe Peterson (Chair): yeah i agree i drive through there quite a bit great commission members any questions for this gentleman thank you very much sir we'll move forward with a public hearing on 5b it's currently 7 16 in the evening is anybody here to speak on this matter this evening if you are please come up to the microphone and state your name and address not seeing any we will close the public hearing at 7 17 this evening commission members any other questions or comments for eric this evening not hearing any any discussion this evening then we look for a motion on 5b please [17:37] Valerie Roulette: i would move to approve 5b [17:37] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that can we get a second [17:37] Buckley Simmons: simmons a second [17:37] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that all in favor aye aye aye anybody opposed not hearing any of the motion passes thank you very much sir thank in the you either for this one or prior this will be on the may 2nd city council agenda thank you for that eric moving forward with 5c this evening it's a petition to change the street name of evie drive to stevie drive this road intersects richard avenue and haynes road and is located in the hermantown marketplace eric what do you have for us on this one [18:22] Eric Johnson: great thank you uh the city has been approached by an applicant to potentially rename this roadway that exists from haynes road over to richard avenue this is a small stub of road that right now provide some access over to sam's club and as well as some of the development that's been happening in this lower corner of the site on the haynes road maple grove road area here the applicant had approached the surrounding businesses there and the four properties that have but that roadway signed a petition uh stating that they were in um at least concurrence or support of the renaming that road from evie drive to stevie drive so um assuming that there is a recommendation from this board this would go to city council for that the city has reached out to the 911 addressing system they see no issues with this as there are no current buildings that take addressing off of evie drive today so um it would not affect anybody from a business addressing standpoint and once again 911 is okay with this potential change that way [19:07] Joe Peterson (Chair): perfect thank you for that eric commission members any questions or comments for eric this evening [19:07] Valerie Roulette: i just read that um all the expenses are for the road signs and stuff are not part of the city's cost correct [19:07] Eric Johnson: yes that is correct [19:07] Joe Peterson (Chair): okay any other questions for eric this evening before we open it up for a public discussion not seeing any we'll open up a public discussion at 7 20 this evening for 5c the petition to change the name of evie drive is anybody here to speak on that matter this evening not seeing any we will also close the public discussion at 7 20 this evening commission members any other questions or comments this evening we're going to look for a vote on 5c i will be abstaining from this this evening as well just so everybody's aware of that [20:46] Corey Colquist: mr chair colquist i move to approve agenda item will be five c as stated [20:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that can we get a second please [20:46] Dante Thomasoni: thomas 22nd [20:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that all in favor aye aye aye anybody opposed once again i'm abstaining motion passes 5d this evening is the zoning ordinance text amendments by the city of hermantown amending the text of the hermanntown zoning code and adopting zoning maps establishing an airport zoning overlay safety zone within the city of hermantone eric what do you have for us on this one [21:31] Eric Johnson: great thank you um what we have this evening is the joint airport zoning board what's also known as jazbee for the duluth international airport created an airport overlay in 1988 the overlay relates to properties adjacent to runways three and nine within the city and its purpose is to protect the public health safety and for the promotion of the most appropriate use of land in order to prevent the creation or establishment of airport hazards so i'm going to flip back and forth between a couple maps as i had mentioned we have this is what you're seeing here is runway 3 with safety zones coming off that and then this is runway nine which is on the west side of the airport so in 1988 the ordinance implemented the requirements it was requ it was basically per the state law the reason that um that was implemented jasby of which hermantown is a member has been discussing for a number of years its desire for a change in the law to allow each airport to create custom zoning for its airport the state law was amended in 2019 and permits custom zoning for each airport to better integrate airport zoning with the local zoning and planning processes custom zoning also allows for increased flexibility for an airport to enact airport zones that are appropriate sized for each airport's needs after numerous discussions and revisions the jasbi approved an airport zoning ordinance reflecting custom zoning in august 20 of 21 and the minnesota d-o-t approved that jasby ordinance in october of 21. as part of this jasby zoning ordinance each member community is required to adopt applicable sections of the ordinance as an overlay to its zoning code once again as an overlay each local community is responsible for the enforcement of that jasby zoning ordinance and the requirements of the overlay district the jazz b's zoning ordinance is not retroactive to existing uses so if you exist there today you'll continue to exist moving forward hermantown recognizes the importance of a regional airport to our community and in the interest of protecting the public health safety and general welfare of our residents the city is proposing to enact an airport zoning overlay as part of the hermanntown zoning code there are four safety zones established in the jasbee ordinance that are proposed to be established as the overlay district for hermantown what i'll do is i'll briefly describe each one of these and where the maps in are applicable show those as well so safety zone one on this current map which you see that's the blue area and once again this is runway nine this is runway three so this land um it was formerly known as a zone a what it does in that zone it prohibits buildings temporary structures and is generally utilized as open space agricultural uses or parking the vast majority if not all of this land is publicly held either by the airport or the city of duluth or in a few cases city of hermantown but once again they're essentially publicly held and there's no development on those currently safety zone two which is currently shown in the map here that has been formerly known as the b zone what that in within that zone it prohibits buildings and structures where groups of people can congregate some specific uses include churches restaurants movie theaters banquet hall stadiums schools hospitals hotel motels that way in addition to these use these uses each you shall not create a tractor bring together a site population of in excess of 20 people per acre so assuming you have a two and a half acre site in theory you could not have 50 people congregating on that site at one time and each site uh must be a minimum of two and a half acres in size the shape of this zoning district for the most part exactly mirrors what is out there today the only exception being was a zoning cleanup in this area that i'm pointing to on the screen it notches out and it follows the existing property line of the um the vacant property at highway 53 in levate bypass it's known as the bill and herb site that's currently a vacant site that way under the basically the previous requirements of the airport zoning it it stipulated that properties needed to be a minimum of three acres in size and it capped the um the resident congregation at 15 per acre so this new ordinance and the new overlay essentially lessens that once again it goes from a three acre minimum to two and a half acre minimum increases the number of people per acre from 15 to 20. and as i mentioned previously any uses that currently exist within there can continue to stay within there for instance there's an existing church within there that you could not build a new one under the ordinance the way it is but the church can continue to exist as it is today going back over to runway three right now so this is a zone that's similar in size to what exists today but has been re-envisioned um this area had a combination of some b-zoning as well as b zoning with c restrictions so in that case the movie theater um the bowling alley etc were were allowed uses within that zoning district the way it previously was in this zone 2.5 obviously as i said these are existing conditions they continue to stay that way this is one question or one comment that the city received not the city but jasby received back from the d.o.t is they wanted to see some sort of a zone that at least helped protect vulnerable populations so i.e was uh children people in their daycares whether it's children or adults hospitals or schools that way essentially if you were there and not under your own free will they they wanted to protect you under that original jasmine ordinance as it has been enacted so as part of this uh jasby uh agreed to this zone 2.5 with some minimal restrictions or prohibited uses and what those are our child or daycare centers state licensed residential care facilities in housing with services establishing serving seven or more people state licensed adult day care serving 13 or more persons state licensed group homes or family day care serving 13 or more children a public or private school or a public or private hospital so once again this is essentially less restrictive than what had been previously allowed and once again continues to allow the existing uses there to function as they are lastly there's the safety zone three which a good portion of our city falls under and what that is it's uh essentially it's a one to one and a half mile radius out from each runway and the only restrictions within that c zone are height restrictions so it's a 150 feet above the highest point within the usable runway area so if if you fall under that c zone essentially you can't build a 150 plus foot height house so uh generally does not fall into it the question i get quite a bit is the new apartment that was constructed there at uggstead road and highway 53 people say well how does that fall under that struct that that is well under that airport zoning height restrictions that way so just to give people a little bit of a visual that way so the cities of hermantown and rice lake are also talking and requiring the city of duluth to indemnify them about any claims or damages from the result of this adoption of the airport ordinance that information will go forward to the city council at a future date but uh right now we're just looking at this news airport zoning within the city of hermantown's code [29:35] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that eric commission members any questions or comments on this so far uh eric so under you said under zone one or zone two any existing businesses they can stay is that also 2.5 and three [29:35] Eric Johnson: that is correct yes [29:35] Samuel Clark: so what happens if the movie theater decided to sell could someone go in there and repurpose that or does that have to maintain that business moving forward because it would be changing then [30:20] Eric Johnson: it could be repurposed for any of those uses as long as it did not fall under those prohibited items so it could not be repurposed as a hospital could not be repurposed as a school uh could it become another movie theater yes it could uh could it become top golf yes it could but it could not once again become a daycare assisted livings hospitals things of that nature actually i would say one more thing is one of the questions or one other comment that had been discussed was the ability to have medical clinics within the 2.5 and yes those can happen you know if it's a chiropractor dental office medical office those are fine once again as long as it's not a hospital they're trying to prohibit a hospital with icus or some nature of that so um getting back to your question yes that could be repurposed for a number of different things assuming it all falls within the sea zoning of the city as well [31:07] Joe Peterson (Chair): i do have one question that i'd like to get a little clarification on you mentioned earlier about a church that couldn't be built today can it be rebuilt if there's a catastrophic like a fire there [31:46] Eric Johnson: i'd have to consult that a little bit further to tell you the truth joe um i don't have that answer at the top of my head i don't think that would change how we're looking at things this evening but i'm just kind of curious on that matter that is that is a good question and um i think that's something that i'll you know look a bit further into this ordinance that way [31:46] Joe Peterson (Chair): i'd appreciate that thank you [32:31] Beth Winslow: i have a question the southern border of zone one did that change at all from what it was [32:31] Eric Johnson: no it did not okay that mirrors what is there today [32:31] Beth Winslow: okay so looking at that zone one do any of those structures that are on the south side of that property there that are those all fine as well [32:31] Eric Johnson: yes everything that basically what we'll call the gordy's complex and there's that small office yes those all fall within that zone 2.5 [32:44] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members any other questions or comments for eric before we open it up for public discussion [32:44] Buckley Simmons: i just have one more so what is the process look like moving forward here [32:44] Eric Johnson: so moving forward uh once again this is part of this um we wanted to have a public hearing obtain uh comments questions from not only this board but the public uh we would look for a recommendation from this board that would then brought to the city council there'd be two readings at the city council for this because it would be a change to the ordinance so it would be a meeting on the i believe the 2nd and the 16th of may yes [32:44] Buckley Simmons: eric what's the uh what's the effect of non-adoption of this is it gonna affect airport safety airport operations or [33:33] Eric Johnson: right now jasby already has an ordinance in place with the state that reflects these so it would be more of a question for my attorney but it would be i think once again just the fact that the airport is a general benefit to this community in our region that at least from a staff standpoint it makes sense to adhere to what the jazz be and likely the dot as well has already signed off on [33:33] Beth Winslow: i did attend one of the jasmine meetings that the talks specifically about this that time and um the benefits to our to the city of hermantown are i felt like were well worth going through the effort because this has taken a long years of work to get to this point and to allow hermantown to still have several of these businesses there and not go beyond what what it already is it was it's it was a long process with a lot of work and a lot of thought i really appreciated their work because i think this is a good thing for us we still get to keep what we have um and yet are protecting the vulnerable which is important and yet still allowing us to use the area [35:22] Eric Johnson: and thank you for that beth is and like i said i'd like to echo that i've been with the city six years now and i've sat actually on the jasbi board a little over four years and um once again this has been going on for a number of years airport zoning within our community that way and the fact that uh that jazz b and then the state were able to um basically allow for custom zoning is is a great benefit is if there was standard zoning without our within our community these safety zones would be twice the size if not more and be even more restrictive so um what jasby was able to accomplish and then with the state signing off on it it's um it really appears to be a good benefit for our community and once again to protect the existing buildings and just protect things moving forward in the future thank you for that [35:22] Samuel Clark: one other question just to clarify getting back to uh joe's question so the church was that in zone one or is not any zone that example if a business was in the zone 2.5 and burns down can they rebuild [36:07] Eric Johnson: but the 2.5 is once again that's you're asking if it's one of these uses that if let's say it's in a daycare that um well then they couldn't build that but if if it falls within a uses usage allowed then it's okay to rebuild once again i want to consult a little bit further with the overall ordinance that way just to find out on structures after the fact that way i don't have an answer for you this moment so i guess yeah my question would be if harley or the movie theater skyline burns down are those are all they're not prohibited users so then they agree yes it says that the question would be if there was a daycare that if let's say there was a hospital in there today it's a retroactive it would not be effective if that hospital burned down the question would be can that hospital rebuild but everything like i said it did today skyline the movie theater etc none of those are prohibited uses those that i'll be allowed to rebuild in the case that something that happened perfect thanks thank you for that clarification [37:55] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members any other questions or comments we'll circle back to us but right now we'll open up the floor to a public hearing at 7 38 in the evening if anybody would like to speak on this matter please come on up state your name and address for the record come on up sir please give us your name and address and we'll try and help you out [38:23] Dennis Cacklemeyer: dennis cacklemeyer harley-davidson sports center stebner road and 53. a question about restrictions on the size of gatherings specifically during special events at the business uh anything that you're aware of there [38:23] Eric Johnson: none on your property no because you fall under the zone 2.5 so that that does not apply to you that's only in the zone two that's on the the west side or if you have a chance to see the screen that's on the the west side of the property for the west side of the city that way as far as your business no it does not affect it [38:23] Dennis Cacklemeyer: thank you sir [39:08] Joe Peterson (Chair): anybody else want to come up and ask any questions this evening please come up if you do come on up sir please state your name and address for the record [39:08] Nate Record: uh nate record 4870 trails in drive so i had a notice and i guess i have a few questions but uh so that zone three do you have a map for that [39:46] Eric Johnson: i do not have that one in this report here you do fall within that zone three i guess what is your specific questions and maybe i can help you that way with the absence of the map [39:46] Nate Record: uh so the only only uh requirement is just 150 feet [39:46] Eric Johnson: that is correct there's no other restrictions within the zone three [39:46] Nate Record: right my question is then before i didn't fall into an airport zone [39:46] Eric Johnson: actually you do i believe that today that the the zone three exists today as well [39:46] Nate Record: oh it does yes yeah okay yes so there's no additional [39:46] Eric Johnson: nope none at all in the zone three [39:46] Nate Record: okay the on your on your website is looking there was a b and c what's what's that [40:32] Eric Johnson: so what they did was a zone is now zone one b zone is zone two and the c is zone three okay the c looks like it's uh more of a it's almost like an oval on ellipse around the city that way what they do is they they take uh within the in the when it parallels the runway it's one foot one foot one mile on both sides of the parallel runways when it's actually on the landing approach areas then it flares out to 1.5 miles [41:18] Nate Record: okay i guess my comment on it is does it define when somebody new moves to hermit town are they going to see that more profoundly that i'm in an airport zone is that going to make my property value decrease [41:18] Eric Johnson: there's there's nothing to i said other than the fact if you're building extremely tall building which you couldn't anyway under the zoning no effect on your property [41:18] Nate Record: okay i just look at this triangle on the seat and it's not really a triangle it's a cut off triangle was that there before [41:18] Eric Johnson: uh i guess what are you looking at i'm sorry sir sure yeah i believe no zone it was zone c and it would have been there before so i guess to answer your question did it affect you buying or purchasing there you didn't even know about it right so that's what it is again and that's what it's always been in place that way so once there isn't any change to where i'm at [41:18] Eric Johnson: nope not at all with the c zone [41:18] Nate Record: okay yep you still function as you do today okay all right that's all i had sure perfect sir thank you very much [42:35] Joe Peterson (Chair): anybody else want to come up and speak ask any questions not seeing any we will close the public discussion at 7 42. commission members any other questions or comments on this this evening before we look for a motion [42:35] Eric Johnson: and actually joe i'm going to uh as i've been reading through this a bit more under section i'm looking at the overall airport zoning here there's section eight permits in order to remove use or structure or tree number eight or number b permit required so the following structures or uses shall not be allowed in a safety zone two unless a permit has first been submitted to and granted by the local airport zoning administrator in that case it's the city of hermantown for that jurisdiction so it's material expansion of an existing structure or use the permits required a new structure or uses permit required an abandoned non-conforming structure permit required for structure to be reused rebuilt or replaced substantially damaged non-conforming structure permit required to rebuild repeat repair or replace lastly material change to non in non-conforming use permit required before material change and use can occur once again at least the way i'm reading this and i would still enact my attorney on that is number four generally covers that if it was damaged that you would have to receive uh be viewed as let's say church is damaged in a zone two it's viewed as a non-conforming but it can be rebuilt with the permit [44:07] Joe Peterson (Chair): perfect thank you for that i interpret that yep i would i would think the same thing from what you read to us cool so i sorry took me around about to get to that answer but uh it was in this lengthy 50-page document [44:07] Beth Winslow: eric was that section 83 [44:07] Eric Johnson: it's section b um i'm sorry section eight yeah item b and then number four thank you [44:54] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members any other questions or comments this evening [44:54] Samuel Clark: uh sam clark i guess just one more follow-up question with some of these existing structures you mentioned if this zoning is not adopted that it could be more restrictive to the surrounding area i mean is there any risk to these existing businesses if this is not was not accepted does that does that make sense [44:54] Eric Johnson: it does i mean it would fall under once again that as far as the jazz be and the state is concerned that these safety zones exist what is being once again is a city in cooperation and understanding of the airport that its staff is doing this is our best interest to adopt this as well because at the end of the day what could have happened under standard zoning would have been so much more restrictive and so once again the fact that we are able as a as an airport community to have custom zoning it greatly benefits us [44:54] Samuel Clark: and when you say more restrictive are you saying like if that zone two could be as restrictive as a one [45:41] Eric Johnson: no it wouldn't get that part but zone two would extend quite a distance that at one point it was pushing right now zone two generally ends at lindal road uh that would extend quite a bit more to the west and once again uh you would really see it would be in this number three area right runway three is that under standard zoning they would have a zone one a zone two and a zone three so what the custom zoning allowed us to do was forego totally the zone two under standard zoning we would have had a one we added to two that probably extended almost to maple grove and then it'd be three afterwards so it would have been a much larger land area and much more restrictive under a standard zoning [46:28] Beth Winslow: eric moving on to item c right below where you were reading it talks about order to remove use structure or tree and there the way i'm reading this is whether application is made for a permit under the subdivision or not they still may be required to remove the structure am i not reading that right i just if you just let me read it real quick sure could you rephrase your question it's it's really i'm just i'm trying to get the the gist of your question along how that goes with the the ordnance language well under b you were we were talking about if you apply for a permit that then you can these they won't affect your existing structures if you wanted to rebuild after a fire or whatever but then in reading and c it says whether application is made for a permit under the subdivision or not the local airport zoning administrator may by appropriate action compel the owner of any structure's use or tree at the owner's expense to lower remove reconstruct or equip the object as may be necessary and it just sounds like that to me that that you could still be ordered to remove this structure is that not right am i reading that wrong [48:12] Eric Johnson: the way i once again the way i interpret it that this still gives this the city as the local zoning the power to enact if we need to okay if it is deemed a hazard at that point so that we still would have at least the authority to do that so it would be to the city not the airport authority well the we we being the cities are the local airport zoning administrator [49:08] Joe Peterson (Chair): any other questions anybody eric anything else from you you're looking for us to make a motion on this this evening [49:08] Eric Johnson: uh yes please okay [49:23] Joe Peterson (Chair): commission members not hearing any other uh questions or comments we look for a motion on 5d this evening to adopt the uh zoning ordinance text amendments to the city of hermantown [49:23] Beth Winslow: winslow i move to adopt 5d [49:23] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that can we get a second [49:23] Corey Colquist: colquist with a second [49:23] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that all in favor anybody opposed not hearing any motion passes thank you very much for that moving on this evening number six continuing business eric do you have anything [50:10] Eric Johnson: no there's none [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): number seven is new business anything [50:10] Eric Johnson: no [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): number eight any communications [50:10] Eric Johnson: uh not from the city staff no [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): number nine commission member reports nothing from myself mr colquist [50:10] Corey Colquist: no report [50:10] Valerie Roulette: no report [50:10] Samuel Clark: no report [50:10] Beth Winslow: new report [50:10] Buckley Simmons: no report [50:10] Dante Thomasoni: no report [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): and mr geyser are you there [50:10] John Geissler: i am but since i'm uh not supposed to be acting in official capacity via zoom i have no comments [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that sir all right uh we look for a motion to adjourn it's currently 7 50 in the evening [50:10] Samuel Clark: sam clark with the most into adjourning tonight's meeting [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you sam can we get a second [50:10] Buckley Simmons: second [50:10] Joe Peterson (Chair): thank you for that all in favor hi