Welcome everybody to our special city council meeting February 23rd, 2026. We're starting a little earlier than usual. 3M we have a uh great presentation from Jeff McVey and his team. I'd like to call the special council meeting to order. All council members are present. Item 1A is a presentation to provide direction on the Mesa City Center, including the redevelopment of the post office into Arizona State University creative technologies building, construction of a new retail post office, and development of the light walk. With that, a presentation by Jeff, Stephanie, Jay, and Rick Neymar from ASU. Come on up, team. We see we have like a 55 uh slide deck presentation [laughter] and the vice mayor has promised me mayor that run quickly through it. All right. >> Well, [laughter] you know, I'm sure there'll be a few questions discussion. So, we look forward to that. Jeff, who's going to lead off? >> I will today, mayor. >> All right. >> Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. Um, I'm pleased to be joined today by Stephanie M, our urban transformation project manager, Jay O'Donnell, our economic development director, and Rick Neymar, our associate vice the associate vice president for program development at ASU. Um, and they will be helping me present the potential next phase of investment in the downtown arts and innovation district and the concepts for ASU at the post office, a new retail post office and the lightwalk. Not join us today at the DAS today. I would like to acknowledge our design team, partners at Gendler that did a great job translating vision into concept and our partners in engineering, particularly our engineering project manager, Michaela Shelini, who did a wonderful job hurting us cats through the development of these concepts. Before presenting on the actual concepts, just a few moments to speak to the larger framework of the downtown arts and innovation district. The Mesa City Center project, including the ASU mix center, the studios, and the plaza, was the first intentional investment by the city in developing an arts and innovation district. And through redevelopment and entrepreneurial activity that has occurred since, the city is receiving the b benefit of that investment. As a 2015 assessment by the Brookings Institute highlighted, to be more than a branding exercise, development of an arts and innovation district requires an ecosystem of entrepreneurship and innovation anchored by an institution. Usually that institution is a teaching hospital or a university. Mesa's investment in the ASU mix center has established that anchor institution and investment in the studios provides a publicly accessible space for ASU's JO or Edson Institute for Entrepreneurship and Innovation and Mesa Business Builders uh supporting collaboration between academia and downtown opp entrepreneurs. It's also important to note that place is an important element of the arts and innovation district. Downtown Mesa's authentic historic character, arts and cultural offerings, and uniquely local business community provides provides the environment that supports entrepreneurship and innovation. It is this downtown place with economic activity that comes from the consistent consistent presence of higher education, arts, transit, and city government that has created confidence for private investment. And that private investment generates increased economic activity and additional city revenues. While considering the the Mesa Place, investment in higher education as a driver of economic development is a proven model across the country as exampam as as shown by just these few examples of headlines. As the downtown arts and innovation district continues to develop, the positive effects are felt beyond downtown. New jobs increase the workforce which then invests in housing and spending that supports neighborhood stability and small business activity, which increases again public revenues. Since 2018 when the ASU mix center was announced, private investment in downtown includes 10 projects and nearly $325 million in capital expenditure. An additional six projects are in progress such as Culdeac, AC by Marriott and Edge on Maine for which we do not know the total project values. But of the four projects, of those six that we do know values for, um that is an additional $230 million in capital investment that is expected over the next couple of years. Moving forward, I'd like to let Jay weigh in on the downtown arts and innovation district from an economic development perspective. >> Sure. Thank you, Jeeoff, mayor and council. Nice to be with you today. um talking about how we look at the future and how we invest and reinvest in downtown in our community. Um proximity and density [clears throat] really drives economic activity. And so when you're integrating education and business support, it really does matter. It makes a big difference. The public investment does improve the feasibility and success of private projects. And there's real intentional employer attraction between the city and ASU. Really trying to find out where the sweet spot is for the city and ASU to partner to invite those collaborators in and develop those partnerships. Um just to let you know the the plan was always for additional activation with ASU. It was never intended to just be a single building. It really was to build out a campus. and it was envisioned to be an active vibrant campus with thousands of students and industry collaboration and partnerships. So ASU and the city are embarking on an attraction strategy to identify ways to attract corporations, entrepreneurs, and creative tech companies to come to downtown, not just for the short term to um have partnerships with ASU, but to land here and expand here. And the timing of this opportunity in particular could not be better in my opinion. Um the city, as you may know, is going through a brand refresh process. Um we're working on that now. Uh, I also understand there have been conversations with the downtown Mesa Association and um urban transformation about doing a brand development or brand refresh for downtown, which would work really well because it could easily then incorporate the arts and innovation district into that process. Plus, the office of economic development is leading the city's uh strategic planning process for economic development. So you have these layers of cohesion that really make sense right now and looking at ways to um develop some additional anchors and destination drivers in downtown is ideal. >> Thanks Jay. So, so Mayor, council, um related specifically related to today's agenda items, um the 2024 IGA between the city and ASU was approved in the context of furthering the development of the downtown arts and innovation district and identified five potential sites for partnership between the city and ASU. Today, we're going to be presenting on two of these sites, 51 through 55 East Main Street and the reuse of the post office for ASU creative technologies. Later, we'll also be presenting on a public connector of activity, the lightwalk. To get started, Stephanie is going to share staff's recommendation for moving forward with 51 through 55 East Main Street, and Jay will discuss the economic development opportunity represented by 51 through 55 East Main Street. >> Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. 5155 East Main Street is an instrumental property that will assist in the elevation of the arts and innovation district. We are asking for council direction to release an RFP RFQ to the development community to work in partnership with the city for the construction of this building. The city will be taking the lead to release the RFP and the RFQ, selecting the developer and implementing the agreement with the developer. The city intends to negotiate a long-term ground lease with the developer. The developer would own the improvements. There is an interest in the development community for this project. This project would have dedicated groundf flooror uses by the Mesa Art Center for the food um service program along with um pre and post Mesa Art Center um services and event functions. The city would occupy a portion of this building for office space. ASU would have the option to occupy space and the remaining space would allow for leasable class A office space and I will have Jay speak about the benefits of class A office space in downtown. >> Thanks Stephanie. So currently uh there is is not any class A office space available in downtown. So we really look at this as another tool to attract businesses who want that downtown environment. Um there are a lot of companies who want the office environment, want to be close to higher education assets. They they're interested in accessing that student population, uh the arts and cultural amenities that downtown Mesa offers. Um as well as being located on rail, uh on light rail, which is a huge positive. So we we believe that Main Street is that arterial backbone of uh of Mesa running through downtown. So to have class A office on this premier um corridor is just a gamecher. It would it would really change the fabric of downtown. >> Now mayor um you you noted 51 55 slides. So, we have built in opportunities for pauses um for council direction on each of these individuals or if you would like to see us show you how we can get through 55 slides in a very rapid pace. We can save all discussion till the end. I but I will leave that to you mayor. >> Well, I I think we need to have a conversation about 5155 right now. Uh council, your thoughts? Miss Duff, you want to lead out? I don't really have anything specific to say other than I am in support of this uh project. We've talked about it for over the years and it's really a a great way to um build up Main Street by going vertical in front of the art center and being an anchor um to the arts and innovation corridor, the lightwalk corridor which will start on the other side of Main Street just north side. Um it has so many possibilities. This is a flexible space. I'd like that we take control of this and we need to go vertical in downtown in order to really provide the the job opportunities, education, entertainment. Um, rooftop bar would be really nice, but we're not uh and you know, and we're doing RFP, RFQ. Um, you know, but we're we're keeping control of what the development is, but we are not the developer. So, I I do like that and I fully support it. >> Thank you. Anyone else, Miss Taylor? >> Yes. Thank you. I'm really excited to see some development on 51 through 55. Um I'm just curious this rendering that you're showing us. Is this something that can be adjusted or changed or is this are you trying to tell us this is the final rendering for that development? >> Mayor, uh Council Member Taylor, no, definitely not. Um this is a rendering that goes back approximately a year ago. We we hired Gendler um to help us develop a feasibility concept and it was more along the line of just making sure that from a building form perspective and from a a a a layout of the separate floors that a a an office tower here is a feasible concept. Not not intended to be architecture at all. >> Okay. I'll just speak for the residents of district 2 because they've expressed a lot of excitement for the future of more restaurants and entertainment that are adjacent to the the Mesa Arts Center. Um, I would I would love love love to see something like really lively restaurants and cocktail lounges in this area. I think that that's what the general public is crying out for. They want somewhere where they can literally walk right next door to go enjoy the evening either before the entertainment or after or both is what we would love to see. And I think that, you know, office space is wonderful and that's a great goal, but mo more than anything, we're going to see a lot of revenue come in if we really focus on the entertainment space because that's what people will just crave and come for. I want them to come here. I don't want them to go to Scottsdale anymore. >> Vice Mayor, >> so what you're looking for right now is just permission to move forward for the RFQ RFP, >> but devil's in the details of these designs. So, what's the capital stack? Who's responsible for for financing what portion of it? What is your skin in the game versus the cities? Is that going to all fall out with the development? >> Absolutely, Mayor and Vice Mayor. That that's what I love about this option moving forward is it's really to go out and test the market right now and and to get those ideas. And to council member Taylor's standpoint, this was one idea about the scope and the scale of a facility, but that's not meant to reflect what the market will bear. And that's what we would go out and uh you know, there are definitely developers uh throughout the valley that are used to doing these type of projects uh in an environment like this with some of the challenges and opportunities that that this site represents. And so, um, it would really be getting their input, their thoughts back, and then, um, being able to then make decisions, uh, vice mayor, based on that, what what they need in terms of partnership, what they need, uh, in terms of city commitment, uh, as far as, um, long-term lease or sale of the land, other other things like that that would all get farited out by putting it out and asking people to come back with their ideas. So now it's >> we're not obligating ourselves on this other than to >> nothing at all >> and and frankly didn't see what it looks like and and >> you know [clears throat] we talked about development and infrastructure as part of our strategic planning session and making sure that what appears on paper is actually something that's delivered and I know that this picture is a placeholder. Um in this instance I'm more than happy to see what kind of architectural changes you can make. It looks like the front end of the Titanic with the [laughter] end. And now that I've said that, you can't unsee it. But [laughter] but the concept of that verticality and density here does make some sense to me. And uh but I'm very interested obviously in what this financial arrangement looks like. I don't want us to bear 100% of the burden correct for this. This needs to be a partnership. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I I think mayor and vice mayor that's one of the things everyone understands the unique opportunity about the proximity of this site to um the art center and also just the c the campus and other things and it provides um some great opportunities but it's really to test the market and see if that's if that's true and what what the market would look like and I think other cities have done um historically a better job than we have of going out and just testing these opportunities. I know in the city of Phoenix um they've looked at some opportunities down downtown where now um there's a multi- multi- high-rise uh facility that's used to be their transit station, but they went out numerous times um for that to to test the market. And at the time the market came back and said it's not ready. You know, you don't have the density or you don't have all the components that are needed. And they pulled that back instead of to instead of agree to do a bad development. And that would be the same situation here. We want to put it out. We want to test and see u what the market is. But at the end of the day, if we don't like um what's being proposed or we don't like the terms uh that that are being proposed in order to make it pencil out, it's something that we're not obligating oursel in any way, shape, or form. >> Yeah, I like that. I can support that. >> I have one follow-up question to what you just said. What are we going to show the market? Um going back u mayor council member Taylor this is this is really the framework of of an RFQ RFP that we put out the suggesting that the city's expectation is for a minimum eight story building 100,000 120,000 square ft first floor retail restaurant uses upper floors for MAC food service and pre post event space um from a from a deal structure perspective we're leaving that open-ended right now we're trying to select a developer who's qualified and capable and the and the deal will become the deal and if it as as as as Mr. Butler has suggested, if it works financially, we'll know. If it doesn't work financially, that will be something that we'll be able to present to council and be able to decide how to move forward at that time. >> So, we're looking to have them also give us aesthetic ideas because the aesthetics are obviously a strong concern for me and I'm so glad we're not using that particular >> We are We are seeking a developer for this opportunity, not for this design. >> Perfect. I just also want the public to know that we're not like drilling home with this one. Okay. Good. Thank you, >> M. Mr. Adams, then Miss Go for >> Thank you, Mayor. Well, the the SS Titanic aside, [laughter] uh I'm uh I would just like to hear uh maybe this is a question for you, uh Miss O'Donnell. Uh talk to us about class A office space. I know that's been a volatile market over the last several years, especially since co. So, uh can you can you sketch out where is the class A office market? And obviously by by issuing this RFQ, we're going to, as Mr. Butler said, we're going to test the market and see who wants to step up and write a check. But I'm just curious, where do you see the class A market right now? >> Mayor, Council Member Adams, great question. Um, we I agree with you, the office market is uh is pretty soft. It is coming back though. Um, and we have looked at a number of leads coming in from Greater Phoenix Economic Council. Um, and so there's there's some positivity there with the office market. The thing I like about this particular opportunity is we we don't have class A office space in downtown and we're pretty short on class A office space uh anywhere else around the city other than the union. So, um, it gives us some good opportunity to actually submit for those projects that are coming in through GPEC and the Arizona Commerce Authority. Um, this is this would be a a beautiful opportunity for those kinds of companies that appreciate that downtown feel and are looking for partnerships with higher education. They want the light rail nearby. It's convenient. Um, it gives us a lot to sell and obviously this would be a project that would take two or three years to build out, but um, we would be excited to market this. >> Good. Well, I appreciate that that overview. I think that uh the market will speak for itself. the uh the development community will speak for itself. If we have them lining up, then that's that's telling us they know something. So, I I think this is a a good a good thing to proceed with. Thank you. >> Um I would agree and I think you you have the right mix of uses with the retail and the restaurant on the bottom. You know, we are in in need of a nice um restaurant that people can go to that are down here for the MAC and other reasons. um and plus uh food and beverage um for the MAC I think is is also important. So I think you have the right mix. Of course this [clears throat] is a prime location and an office would be fantastic but you know that's as we've said five or six times here that's for the market to decide. Of course you know to have that in our downtown would be would be great. So hopefully there is a market for that. But um I think I think you're on the right track and I'm I'm anxious to see um if there is in fact some demand. >> Thank you. [snorts] I'll just add that you know Jeff you brought up an ecosystem and that's the vibe we need downtown to develop this ecosystem as we continue to elevate Mesa in this area. And you you know that we have an underperforming asset that's not even being used today. Nobody really wants it. So, it's time to, you know, demo it and see what a, you know, public private partnership will do for the area. Now, Rick and the ASU team does know that I've challenged them to bring job growth down here to downtown Mesa, office workers here because I think it's essential as part of the campus that's being built here. incorporates that component that people work downtown using the light rail. It's very convenient for ASU and other businesses to come back and forth. But one of the things I I want to make sure is that as we envision the future, long-term range planning, long range planning to know, as we talked about in our strategic planning session, what things work in certain areas our we have a big city and this concept may not work in in certain areas, but I think it's important as we move forward. I think you have your marching orders on this that uh the only thing I would add is the time frame to come back with uh time the time it takes for the RFP RFQ to get back to council so that we can any thought on that I mean do you is there a time component on the RFP and Q? >> Yes. Uh, mayor um council, it is our expect intention with this direction from council that we would be releasing this RFQ RFP in the next month or so that it would have a window of opportunity for response of anywhere from 30 to 60 days following the response that we would then hopefully be able to quickly vet and shortlist if not um choose a development partner to move forward with. that would that would then begin the clock on on the developer working together on negotiating the the finer points of the you know as vice mayor suggested the devil is in the details and so there'll be several months of of trying to figure out what that structure of a deal could look like and before we could bring it back to council for your input and and direction. >> Great. All right. I think we covered how many slides there? 12. [laughter] >> Rapid. >> All right. We'll move on to the next council. Any questions? >> Okay. [laughter] All right. Jeff, let's move over to ASU creative technology building. >> Okay. Uh mayor and council, uh when we last presented on this topic, uh council directed staff to develop a concept for reusing the the current post office for ASU creative technologies. Guided by this vision, the feasibility concept has been completed for the reuse of the post office for ASU creative technologies. I'm now going to hand over to Rick Neymar to share an overview of ASU's current activity at the mix center and vision for reuse of the post office for ASU creative technologies. [clears throat] >> Great. Thank you, Jeff. Mayor, members of the council, um Rick Neymar with the office of the university planner at ASU. I also just want to thank my colleagues who are here in the room, Kristen Irwin and Ward Nichols and our government community relations um uh office. Duke Ryder here is with our university city exchange and um watching uh from home today because she couldn't be here with the reschedule. Elaine Becker who many of you have met and as working by my side to and with Jeff and Stephanie to to move this forward. I want to thank uh the mayor and council, city staff, and the residents of Mesa for your significant investment in really one-of-a-kind facilities to advance learning and research and impact uh in film, immersive media, and other uh technologies. And we're going to talk today about some of the joint successes of this historic collaboration between the city and ASU and then more specifically how we can continue to advance this transformation for the future. [clears throat] So, uh, some of you have seen these slides in various forms before, but it's just important to remind ourselves how we've really hit this out of the ballpark. the Mix Center, Media and Immersive Experience Center, which opened in the fall of 22. And think about pandemic time right be, you know, right before that. We're now hosting hundreds of students making films, designing virtual worlds, designing video games, and creating other immersive media experiences that are applied in all industries in all ways. This uh building has become a convergence point for academic innovation, for industry partnership and creative workforce development. So, our our largest um academic programs at the mix are our upper division film programs in the previously unnamed but uh as we moved into the building, the Sydney Poatier New American Film School, which I might remind you has a presence in Tempe and also in Los Angeles. So, it's a school across three different cities. Um but the mix is the jewel uh in the crown in terms of our our programs. Uh we also have at the mix a number of newly created graduate immersive media programs that are also within the Herbert Institute of Design in the Arts which is really the largest college of its kind in the country uh with all these design programs in it. When we were planning our collaboration with the city, we set a collective goal of having 750 students engaged at the center within five years of operating. Um, and the graph shows, as you can see, just enrollment alone. After two years, we blew past our our goal. um on a weekly basis we have actually around 1,500 students at the mix or almost two times the number that are actually enrolled in classes. Um it takes faculty and staff to make a place like mix do its job and we set a goal of having 40 faculty and staff by year five. Midway through uh year four we're now at 65. So, we're doing really well and um as you know, ASU is obligated for the annual uh operations of the mix as well as the substantial ongoing costs of the programs that we operate there for the lifetime of the building. Um we also set a collective goal of having uh 25 community events per year at the mix. In our third year, we hit over 300. So, I think we're doing fine. over 10 times our goal. Um and then also I just want to mention the studios. Um we launched together um in your historic library building the studios at Mesa City Center. We're on the first floor our Jay Orin Edson entrepreneurship and innovation programs exist. Um what we're doing there is providing resources and programs to support current and aspiring entrepreneurs. Uh it's a very uh community-facing program. Staff launching uh companies, faculty launching companies, community members launching companies in a collaborative environment. And now we're very happy to share uh the basement and the second floor uh uh in the same building are the Mesa Business Builder programs. and we found some really great ways to bridge our programs with yours and make a really um uh uh robust uh economic development engine there. Our goal at the studios was to have 20 events a year and again we've had over 300. Uh so we're doing great. We haven't hit year five yet. So so uh as I mentioned we're very communityf facing uh particularly within the mix. We had 379 public events and just to highlight a couple of these and some upcoming in its third year the mixversary open house where students, faculty and staff are showing off what we're doing in the building and demonstrating all these new technologies. Um we had uh over 500 people from the community there last year. This next one, I'm just doing a plug, is March 13th, and I'm told there's going to be a really cool drone show. So, um, be prepared for that. We're also upcoming working with your parks and recreation program, uh, department to stream popular athletics events, uh, outside such as March Madness, ASU Sunundevil football in the fall. And in in uh March, uh CBS is coming out and it's going to be filming its America by Design program from The Mix, which will put Downtown Mesa on the TV screens of millions of Americans. And then we have a big conference coming in March of all the new media academic folks from across the country to see this state-of-the-art facility. Um, Mix is also hosting events related to economic development for the Arizona Commerce Authority and Arizona Technology Council's annual tech week which is in April. So, it's really become a magnet for for people. Um, similarly, the studios we've had huge visitation for our 300 plus events. Notable examples include the AI literacy lab, which is helping businesses learn about this new thing called AI and how they can harness it for their businesses. Um, and a new media technology hackathon. >> Rick, we have a question. >> Actually, I don't know if Rick's the right one or maybe the city that this is a pretty impressive 300 almost 380 events, almost 20,000 attendees. How are we capturing the return from this investment? Are we like increase in sales tax revenues, diners? Are we able to capture to show quantitatively a economic value to to what's happening? >> Mayor, vice mayor, we do report um on a regular monthly basis um our annual sales tax receipts for downtown as a separate one from the city as a whole. Um while while we can sit here today and and talk about there's a correlation between these activities and these investments um we we cannot draw that direct causality between the two. Um so we yes we generally report on these these activity levels and the increase economic >> speaking to me like I taught statistics. >> Yeah I I had to take a couple couple semesters unfortunately. [laughter] >> Um >> did I teach you? I'm sorry. >> Um so the the the short answer is yes. We report on economic activity and and in and sales tax revenues but also in in econom capital expenditures but being able to tie it directly to these 380 events is not something that we are are currently doing. >> Yeah. So so measuring this a little outside of my mind's more of a macroeconomics understanding than micro. So but to run these numbers through and figure out to be able to show what that benefit is to these numbers would be uh worth a pursuit I think. Just as a quick suggestion, actually to tie off of what Scott just said, for future events, it may behoove you to offer anyone who attends that event a ticket, a digital coupon, something so that when they're shopping or dining in the area, you can then go back and you can survey the businesses and see how many people use whatever that voucher was, and then you can make a correlation between the event and our increase in sales tax revenue. >> Fantastic. Thank you. Uh, mayor, councilwoman, I I just mentioned Kristen Irwin, who's in the back, sits on the board of the downtown Mesa Association, and I think they're a great partner to be able to do that. So, >> and mayor and council, we also um for Mesa Business Builder at the studios, we check in every person who comes into our space, whether it's for a five minute tour or an event. And so we have that database that we can go back and survey th those individuals as well and just get at least a some qualitative information about what you did before or after the event. So we'll be happy to conduct that research too. >> It's just important for us to be able to report back to the community before we have an ask what's the you know what's in it for them? What are they receiving as a return in the investment? >> Mr. Adams, >> I just would like to weigh in on that as well. I think that uh that data would be almost priceless for this reason. When we consider using taxpayer dollars for [clears throat] any of these types of developments, the unspoken question is well, what's the return on investment? If we can show the return on investment through TPT, sales tax, um it becomes a much easier thing to justify [clears throat] and it becomes more defensible when [snorts] the city's challenged on why are we using taxpayer dollars for these type of things. So I think if you can pursue that along the lines that's been discussed here uh where we can show a return on investment that solves so many issues. >> Mayor, vice mayor, um I I believe uh we will be prepared to have those discussions the next time we come back and talk to you on this topic. >> Well, this is similar conversations when we have spring training games going on. We know the sales tax revenue goes up in our city, but we cannot correlate it to that. We assume that that's happening because we have spring training going on right now in the city of Mesa. But that's a side our conversation. >> We we do track um developments and businesses um since ASU before and since ASU since ASU opened uh we've opened 50 new businesses in downtown and prior it was a handful. So it does help you know as far as attracting people as well as we've been adding the density through more living spaces so we have people who can keep those businesses going. So there is a little bit of tracking on the investment side from businesses and uh developments. Um but yeah we can look at sales tax too. >> All right continue on. Uh, mayor, council members, sorry for a very wordy slide, but the point here is that we've attracted corporate uh, visits from more than a hundred different companies over the couple of years that we've been open. Uh, we collaborate with local Mesa companies to help lift their businesses. And one of the great things we do is local and national businesses engage our students and faculty, even pay them uh in some cases to develop immersive uh media applications for their businesses. So I'm just going to give a couple of examples. We have a sponsored research agreement with Canon where we're doing work with them develop using this technology to help them with their corporate goals. We do workforce development uh work with Boeing. Um and I think when we first were thinking about this, we thought about, you know, developing flight simulations as an example. Um we're doing research internationally with the National Cardiovascular Research Center of Spain. Those are just three different examples of companies that are coming here to engage with us using these technologies to advance uh uh local and national economy. Um and we're working to fine-tune our collaborations to help pivot to the goals that you all have laid out in your workforce uh development uh plan. Um as Mr. Butler noted at your fall round table, the partnerships built between the city and the education community at large will lead to a much stronger workforce and boost Mesa's ability to grow and and to attract businesses and I think that will be important uh for you. Um I I think we've already talked a little bit about the downtown impact. It's not lost on me too that in your last week's uh strategic planning session, there were some items I think particularly Councilwoman Duff and the mayor talked a little bit about the arts and in innovation district and we definitely want to bolster that branding and that uh effort as as well. So um so anyway, a lot going on in terms of industry paying attention to what we're doing here. Um, you've seen this slide before. Um, I ju I just want to re-emphasize that it's not just about teaching and learning and that we're also here for community impact, for economic development, for professional development. And as Jay mentioned, our biggest next move is to really sit with you as you develop your updated strategic economic development p plan. ASU has a whole economic development team that works on attracting people to all of the innovation zones that we have and we plan to be doing that here in collaboration with Jay and and your economic development team. So that's just an example. So as you probably remember and this is the new stuff uh when we were before you in June we had only had a single tour of the post office building. there's very little information available about the building itself. So, the last eight months of study and shout out to our Gendler team for doing a great job of this really allowed us to better understand the capacity of this space um to be adapted for ASU's uh program growth needs while also continuing to use the mix spaces in the most efficient way possible. As it turns out, this post office building with its tall ceilings, open structure, um it really lends itself to um the expansion of film and immersive media. And as you can see on this um diagram, we intend to uh build some studios around the the middle of it with um the external area being a circulation point so that we can have good student interaction spaces. At the mix, when we designed it, we really focused on those highintensity sophisticated technology spaces, the the uh sound stages and the editing rooms and the and the um screening studios. Well, we didn't have a lot more space for students to kind of work on uh projects out in the hall with one another or whatever. And also what we really need are these smaller workhorse, not lower technology but just slightly less sophisticated uh in terms of their uh their use to be able to grow our programs. But I will say this, we also and we don't plan it much here. We also really need um more office uh space for faculty and staff as we grow our programs and more I will call it basic classroom space so that we're not teaching a class in this high-end screening room that we could use uh more productively for the needs of um of the film program. Um, so you can see that the post office retail space in this concept, and I'm sure you're going to talk a little more about it, is uh being suggested to move out of the building to the north parking lot rather than stay in the uh the building. And um it what that does, it gives ASU the opportunity to flexibly use the full building. Um and it also allows for that post office to get built, open, and then we can start renovating. So it would offer continuous um operation for them. You'll notice here there's an entrance uh from center but I think the main entrance for us for students, faculty and staff will be that one to the southeast that will connect to the mix and uh and the plaza and that area. So, and this image just kind of shows a little bit more how we intend to use the outer zones and the hallways uh to to make things work in revitalized space. Next, so um if all the spaces we've discussed become available, uh we have an opportunity to greatly expand upon our current film and immersive media program in your community. The transformation of this building along with some of the other spaces in our IG will allow for relocation, expansion or launching of new uh programs in Mesa City Center, including upper division animation and collaborative gaming with the potential to nearly double the student capacity that we had expected with your initial uh investment. Uh some of these programs exist today in Tempe and would lo relocate. Some are brand new. One one is brand new this year uh in Tempe and some haven't been created yet and we don't know what they are yet because this is such an emerging uh and rapidly developing technological area. And just a a little note on gaming. I just want to mention that uh the folks that will graduate with gaming degrees, they're not just sitting in the basement of their parents' home when they graduate uh playing video games or or maybe hoping to design something while in the basement. these people are transforming uh all sorts of industries with their technical skills and uh it's really kind of an emerging area that I never understood when we started uh working on this and it continues to evolve. Um and just uh so you have a sense of the kinds of um uh of spaces we have uh computer classrooms uh etc. Oh, this is kind of a wonky slide. I don't know what happened there. But uh I do want to mention though that again the offices um and classrooms and that kind of thing would be in a different building than the post office. But we do intend to do these blackbox flexible studios in a computer classroom. All right, some photos. Not real photos. These are renderings. Um this is the out. Imagine the building redone. This is um sorry I lost a page. Um a [clears throat] rendering of the west side of the building along Center Street looking south. And you can really see how the student interaction spaces will be accommodated in the space. And that uh waffle ceiling is already there in that part of the post office. So we intend to just keep it. It's really kind of nice. Next, this shows um the south corridor of the building looking eastward. And you can see that that the concept anticipates the removal of some of the brick to bring more light into the space so people can see in and out. and you're looking toward the the historic council chambers as you're looking out here. So, you can see that this is uh the east corridor of the building looking southward. And you can see to your left or to the left of the slide the outdoor terrace which is currently the loading dock. And this is the thing that Mr. writer really got excited about when we were looking at this building because it was very similar to the post office downtown with that, you know, heavily utilized loading dock. But when distribution goes away, all of a sudden it's a great asset for a building. And you can see it here. It'll create this indooroutdoor uh feel. And then uh finally, this one. Um oh, I'm sorry. I got one more. I got this is the outdoor terrace. Uh so now you're outside of that looking that same way. Uh and you can see the council chambers at the end there looking southbound. And this is the way the outdoor terrace uh can be used and the canopy can be reused for student and also community use. And then finally we got one more shot. This is a teaser for the lightwalk, but this is looking westward from the lightwalk or through the lightwalk um which you're going to hear about pretty soon. um and shows how seamlessly these projects can uh blend together. So, um thank you uh so much for your collaboration thus far. We look forward to doing great things together and uh I'll turn it back to the city staff to continue unless you want to do questions of me now or wait till you're done with your piece of it. >> Let's continue on. I think >> mayor, I I'll apologize. I promise when you look at it on your computer at your desk, the the ASU slides presented well. There's some font that is isn't translating between the two. So, we will make sure to get it um turned into a PDF and get it out to the council after this. So, you got >> the the presentation legisar is correct. It's just showing up. It's it's actually the way it's showing up on channel 11 screen. Yeah. So, we're we're not exactly sure, but please go ahead. >> I'm a PowerPoint savant. [laughter] >> All right. Um, mayor, uh, council, from a feasibility perspective, the concept uh, for ASU creative technologies was developed to achieve a number of benefits, which includes strengthening the downtown arts and innovation district, um, reuse and activation of a strategic downtown city-owned asset, and retention of retail post office. The the post office began its operations in 1971 under a long-term ground lease between the city and a private entity. Which lease has terminated under its terms um last year and the city became the post office's landlord under a new three-year lease? Which three-year lease term reflects the potential reuse of the post office for ASU? As part of our lease negotiations and related to the potential reuse of the property, the city has been in regularly, I'm sorry, has been regularly engaging with the United States Postal Service. This includes sharing staff's recommendation for moving forward with development of a new retail only post office on the north side of the property. This concept has several benefits including efficiency of operations, efficiency of space, and efficiency of lease administration while having a negligible budgetary impact when comparing maintenance of a retail post office and ASU functions together in the same building. Now the the most important slide as a component of our concept development cost estimates were prepared for a new standalone post office and the reuse of the post office current post post office for ASU creative technologies. In total design and construction cost including contingencies and construction cost escalation for a new standalone retail post office is approximately $3.4 $4 million and design and construction costs for ASU Creative Technologies including the same contingency and escalations is approximately $25 million. To reflect that there is there remains some unknowns related to potential public infrastructure improvements needed. A conservative estimate of $5 million has been included as a placeholder until further infrastructure uh assessment can be completed. With completion of the concept and cost estimating, staff is seeking council's direction to move forward with negotiation negotiating the terms of a lease, including the cost share between the city and ASU for council's consideration within the next 6 months. SA staff is also seeking council's direction to move forward with negotiations with the United States Postal Service for development of a new retail post office and a new long-term lease. >> Thank you, Jeff. Council, no questions. Oh, wow. That was easy. >> Mayor, I'll I'll just add to build off of um what Jeff [clears throat] uh just stated. So, this is really just to give us the go-ahhead to then really uh dive deep into our partnership with ASU, get a better understanding of what u that type of partnership would look like, uh be able to understand different ways that we can both contribute uh to this pro project. and then come back u to council with a plan more fleshed out at that point. Um but we wanted to be be sure to get this in front of you because as I said the last time we've updated you um this was still very early into the idea of what this building uh could contain and and and what um what the scope of that would be relative to the post office. So I think we've come back with a much more flushed out concept with that. Um we certainly heard you on the on the comments of uh as we come forward we'll be sure to talk about uh the ROI and and the different investments that this brings. Uh [clears throat] Jeff opened it up though with this discussion that this really goes back to the intentionality that the city started with back in 2015 when we partnered with the Brookings Institution on looking at innovations innovation zones and innovation districts and the role that they play. And we we see that playing out throughout the city. I mean, today we're focusing on the arts and innovation district in downtown, but we've seen that play out ASU Poly and and what's happened there and also what's still to come at ASU Poly, but also as we look at um the Falcon Field area and our anchor institutions there of the Boeing company and and other partners. So the the notion that came through innovation districts was that the primary anchors may differ by district but they carried some similarities and in the catalyst that they represent towards that economic development. And so for downtown, uh, that anchor institution that the council chose was ASU. And that's why that partnership initially started and and what the IGA that's in place today to look at building and strengthening that partnership is all about is is continuing to build that innovation ecosystem downtown. And so this isn't a panacea. It's not an end- all beall, but you do have to have um that one anchor institution that really represents um what will be the the catalyst for that development. And so that that was the rationale. I' I'd welcome for for those of you um who who weren't here during those initial conversations. We we can certainly provide copies of of um the Brookings report and and other ideas that that set council down this path, but I just want to step back and give that history as Jeff opened with because that's really what's brought us to today. This isn't um this isn't something where um we're just willy-nilly trying to further this partnership with ASU. It's what they bring to the table and and what they represent as far as economic development, workforce development, and and overall strengthening that core of what's in a jobs catalyst in downtown Mesa. So, um, with that, Mayor, we're open. >> Yeah, I'll just I'll just start out with one question to think about and and Mr. Butler brought it up. You know, we're always looking at economic uh development and winds here in the downtown area. And my question is, what would be the downsides of not moving forward with this? I mean, let's think about, you know, I know that's a little different twist, but is there anything I mean, Rick, you brought up your presentation. You got a good team behind you, Jeff, Jay, Stephanie, or council. Is there any downsides of not doing this currently? [clears throat] Here's one of the conundrums I found. After a 50-year lease, we now have the lease back with the post office. I mean, for 50 years, we haven't even technically we've owned the property, but we've not received a great ROI on that investment. So, now it's time to take the next leap of faith and see whether we move forward on this additional campus. So, my question is, are there any downsides for not doing this? Mayor, >> give me a few I a few seconds to think about that. Mr. Ber can help you out. >> You actually you actually have helped me out. You gave me a few seconds and I'm and I'm gonna probably not be the the most um wise person to speak, but that's why I'll go first and let wiser speaker people speak next. The mayor, I think um and council, I think one of the challen one of the concerns with not moving forward is that momentum is a finicky thing. Um and and we have we are achieving momentum in downtown and that snowball is starting to roll down the hill. But if it stops rolling down the hill, the the gains that we have achieved so far in developing this downtown arts and innovation district could be stalled and and our economic development um efforts that we are are have been working on for the last 10 11 years um um could could suffer for it. >> Well said. [laughter] and and and mayor, council members, I'll just add from the ASU perspective, our programs don't up and leave Tempe and relocate somewhere else. And we don't start new programs somewhere else if there's not something pulling or pushing it there. And so if we don't expand the opportunities that you know the kinds of opportunities that you provided in the mix by creating space for us um that it's unlikely that we would grow beyond the growth of the programs that are already here which there's still quite a bit of growth to happen in those programs but you're sort of missing about half of what our anticipated growth would be. And I I think from a critical mass perspective of of an impact of a university presence, I think that would be a loss. >> Mayor, and and I just add just to build off and I'm going to repeat a little bit about what I said earlier, but I think we need to stress this. Each of when we think of our economic districts, there are those anchors. If it's in Fiesta, we think of um what the hospital and what MCC bring to the table. When we think of um Southeast Mesa, we we think of PY and we think of the airport. Um when we look at Northeast and around the Falcon area, we do talk about the Boeing company and other aerospace anchors that um that harness that. That that was the notion of what ASU brought with the research institution and students to downtown was that anchor that you see in Raleigh Durham area and research triangle. what you see in other um universitybased anchors um throughout the country. And so that that is what we would be um missing out on if we don't continue to further and nurture that relationship is is the opportunity to harness that type of of workforce and that type of creative uh class that that um we're looking for as far as highwage jobs and the types of people that we want to be drawn to. We want the gaming and the creative arts is it's big money, right? I mean, Activision just got purchased by who was it? Google or Microsoft for $40 billion. Um and and I mean that's the type of economic activity that's um you know assuming around this type of creative industry. And so it's definitely an opportunity for us to make our mark in areas like that in partnership with with ASU and and get to some of those long-term goals that the city has had. >> Okay. I think Miss Duff, you had your comment. >> There were there was a few things, but the overall objective of the arts and innovation district is to be that vortex of creatives coming together from and leveraging the graduates coming out of ASU into entrepreneurship and incubation of these 22nd century ideas and technologies that we don't even know about. So leveraging that is creating we want to be the hub if you're a creative and in the creative technologies you got to be in Mesa because this is where the education and business and entrepreneurship and incubation is coming together and you need to be in this mix in order to grow something and from that we can leverage it into the office spaces and the hotels and more entertainment and um professional wage jobs. That's huge to have that opportunity. If you're in this business, if you're in which is so much all the visuals in everything that we see in technology, everything is visual these days, right? You do very little learn, very little in in text anyway, is going to be in visuals. We want to be the hub for that activity and leverage our city from there. Now, this isn't going to be ASU's campus, ASU's whatever. We want to be still uniquely Mesa. We have that opportunity to be that without adding ASU. We're neglecting the opportunity to really become a downtown that has so much opportunity that people are just flocking here to be part of the energy here. Otherwise, we can stay as we are. Some more cute local businesses. Um, I love them. We have a great art center, but we're really flattening out our opportunity. Where are we going? Um, we need all of this, not only for downtown, but for the entire city. It is our our identity, and it really puts Mesa on the map. Um, so I can't say enough how important that we're strategic and building upon the arts and innovation district to be a city of tomorrow and we're attracting the talent. Um, I think um, you said it council member Gora that our strategic planning is that uh, you have to build a place that you want talent to come to, right? Um so we are building that in a way that's attractive, innovative and has opportunity. Um issue is part of that mix. So I think um one other point I have quite a few points [clears throat] but one thing I wanted to do at some point is talk about since we have a new mix on council what the previous agreement was on the mix. So at least we have a point that we can start imagining what our agreement can be with ASU. Um I'll leave these other comments for later. >> Anyone else on council? Miss Taylor. >> So I'm the questions person. I need to have answers in order to process this. I see the big picture. Don't get me wrong. And I'm totally fully aware especially in the gaming institutions. As a matter of fact, I just want to drop a comment on that. If we're looking at 51 through 55 as a future perspective building location, maybe you should look at how we can entertain gaming institutions to come here and build out their office spaces for creative development so that these students who are going to be getting paid $200,000 a year are working right upstairs across the street. Just throwing that out there. Um, >> so can can you just for the public's interest as well give like a really succinct breakdown of the intergovernmental agreement. >> Is it with us and ASU or are there additional municipalities involved because I need to go back to the root source and you don't have to go into like a long drawn outlation just a really short one. No, this uh so this IGA is is with the city of Mesa and ASU. So we're the only two parties involved and it was identifying those potential sites. Four four sites in total, Jeff. >> Five total five >> three three that were partner develop or were develop potential development sites and two that we could partner on like 5155 and development of >> Okay. Okay. So long range um because we we really focus on that in our strategic planning session. ASU's been in downtown Mesa for 10 years now. Is that longer? >> Three. >> Sorry. Three years. >> Three and a half. >> Whoops. Wrong. Totally wrong number. So after three years, you're saying, "Hey, it's time to grow." Is that right? We We're expanding. We're ready. So can you tell us what that would look like? I think I meant to say in 10 years plus. Like are we looking at three years we grow, three more years we grow, three to four years we grow? I I think Mesa residents need to have a grasp of how big do we grow? What does this look like going forward? >> Mayor, um, Council Member Taylor, I the estimates of our growth based upon the current investment, the mix center and the studios and the programs that we have there. We expect that 845 students to grow to a not not quite double to about 1,500 students without any further investment. I mean, we might have to find some more faculty offices and that kind of thing, but for the most part, we [clears throat] think we have what can get us to about um about uh 1,500 with the studio with the um uh post office, with the 55 North Center building, which we're not talking about today, but with that that kind of a space, and with the ability to build on the library parking lot, which is the other development site, and or using some space in the 5155 sort of some combination of those resources becoming available. We think we can grow uh almost double that. I think I uh the slide had 1,200 uh additional students there and that's about that. So that's beyond just growing these programs. It's also adding programs. So taking us from the max capacity of 1500 if we stayed as is >> to about 3,000 let's say. >> Okay. Okay. Um curious to know does anyone know what our revenue has been from leasing out that building to the post office for 50 years and what that would be in contrast to >> the revenue we could potentially bring in. Do we have any of those numbers because I think those matter. Um, Mayor, Council Member Taylor, currently our our lease with the postal service is for an annual lease rate of approximately $450,000 a year. >> I remember us talking about that. Okay. >> Prior to that, >> prior to that, we we >> $1,500 a month as a ground lease. So ground leases are not nearly as uh as as lucrative as being a landlord, but the landlord comes with additional obligations that could become costly too in a 55 plus year old building. >> So in other words, it was a gift to the federal government for a very long period of time. >> Well, actually it was to the builder who built it. I would >> right. Yeah. I I think you know for that Yes. ve very much so. Um but I don't we all predates us about the rationale for why uh that happened exactly the way it did. But >> do you know about how long ago we switched over from the $1,200 or $1,200? >> It [clears throat] was is council member mayor council member Taylor is just last year when the city assumed the lease um as landlord. Um, I think maybe to to your question, a the we would anticipate the lease for a new retail standalone retail post office to follow a similar cost per square foot model as the current post office. It'd be overall it'd be a lower lease rate because it's a significantly smaller footprint, but we do anticipate that the lease rate would be sufficient enough that it would be able to cover any um capital expenditure the city would have at towards building that um structure. >> Okay. And so then we are anticipating if we were to entertain the idea of ASU moving in to this space and potentially having that infrastructure build out, we would have a much higher return on investment with that building. >> Um, currently if Mayor Council member Taylor, if we use the Mix Center as a model, currently ASU pays a annual lease rate of $100,000 for the Mix Center. Um, that would be a topic for us to include as part of our lease negotiations that we would bring back to council in six months. Oh, >> okay. So, mayor and council member, but yes, >> this is just direction to move forward and gain that. >> I know, but I need this information in order to make that decision, and I'm going to get asked these questions. >> Sure. That's fine. >> Yeah. No, to totally fair. And and uh Yes. So there would be whatever the actual negotiated lease rate is, but also you you talk about the overall ROI and that's some of the things that we'll flush out with you because when we're talking about bringing in um folks in that otherwise would not be coming to downtown Mesa and what that value represents, which goes back to one of your earlier one of the earlier questions. We'll we'll um work on that as well. >> Well, and I'm thinking of the families that we have in the districts outside of district 4. they may want to send their kids here if this is going to be a draw for them that really sells itself. >> And mayor, council member Taylor, if I may, just one more point on that. Um, the mix center, as an example, while the lease rate is only $100,000 a year, we have to also rep reflect that that ASU put approximately $35 million worth of of furniture, fixtures, and equipment into that building. Um, and this is a building that that ASU 99 years from now potentially may not own. Um, and we're looking at the same model at the post office where ASU would be obligated to to cover all the costs for any FFN. Um, and that that um those improvements to the interior of the building and the improvements to the building itself are, you know, ultimately um long-term potentially the ownership of the city. >> Okay. Uh, so I I have the who ASU and Mesa students interested in tech, film, and gaming. Um, who originally asked for this? Was it ASU? Did you come to Mesa saying, "We'd like to expand," or, did Mesa say, "Hey, we have a post office available. Would you like to use it?" >> It really was outreach from the city of Mesa to us. It happened to be about my first week of work at ASU. I had spent 30 years at the city of Phoenix and moved over to ASU. And when I got there, uh, Duke and I came out to a meeting, uh, along with a couple other people at at the request of the mayor and city manager at the time. So, And by the way, we were excited about uh being your partner. >> Yeah. Thank you. And then I I have the what. I understand the what, the where it's going to be. When if we were to propose this, when would we start? When would the project begin and when would it end proposed? >> Mayor, >> it's [snorts] okay if you don't have the ending. >> Mayor, Council Member Taylor, the soonest that we could start would be the termination of a current lease with the post office, which I believe is May 31st of 2028. Boy, glad I can remember that. Um and and we would anticipate that that if if we move forward that we would be able to do design um and and all the the preliminary work um between now and 2028 so that once that lease ended we'd be able to move forward directly with the construction. Um this as a as a instead of a new 118,000t building as a renovation of existing building I would anticipate it would be um 18 months to two years for completion of the project. And I would I would just say to that though [cough] two years will be here in no time at the end of the end of the lease. Um but we could obviously if if council were to instruct us to move forward with this eventually um we could approach the post office earlier because certainly the facility that would be proposed is a much more functional space for them than what they have today. So they may jump at the opportunity to try to accelerate that and to be relocated into their retail space because uh even though it's um roughly the same square footage from a retail excuse me from a retail component um that footprint is much more functional what we're proposing with our design than the way it's being utilized now in the current building. So um if they can basically get a a new building that's more functional, they might may welcome the opportunity to try to accelerate that timeline. And for us, for students, what that mean is means is two years from next fall or fall of 2029. [cough] >> And did you mention in this proposal that you might start negotiations with ASU, we would also possibly be discussing non-colgiate retail space in this building, >> Mayor Council Taylor, we had not discussed non nonacademic use of this building unlike the mix center that has frontage. um on pepper with the with the built-in market of the city employees. The post office site isn't as well located for addition of retail space. >> Okay. So, strictly academia in this case. >> Yeah. >> And then the big question, why did we go to ASU to even propose this? >> Yeah, that and that really goes back the original discussion with the centers. >> It is. It is. And mayor, council member Teao, that that's exactly it. when when we looked at what the assets um were and the potential assets um that could serve as that anchor catalyst for downtown, that's where a university research component was identified as the most practical. You know, like I said, we have hospitals, which some use at at other areas of the city. They weren't going to build a new major uh level one trauma one uh facility here in downtown. Um, and so we in looking at those different opportunities to have an anchor institution and seeing frankly the success that the city of Phoenix had enjoyed in their downtown of of uh the programs that from the journalism school to the nursing program to others that were complimentary to what Phoenix was trying to accomplish. But that that's what we do appreciate that this partnership with ASU has been built around a mutual understanding of the type of creative technology that we wanted to bring that the the intent was to bring um anchors that would work with the arts and innovation district and play off of that. So this wasn't just you know Dr. Crow going to a dart board and you know throwing it and figuring out which program to build. It was it was what would use our um institutions downtown um from the art center to the natural history museum and other things and still serve as that creative kind of catalyst that um would help this work as one ecosystem. Is that fair to say Rick on that? >> Absolutely correct. >> And I believe ASU mix is one of three like schools in the world that offers this um education with the technology. >> I don't know the answer. >> I've heard that figure. Okay. >> Um, I only have one more question. So, I heard you say you had retail space for the post office if we decide to end that lease and move forward with this. >> Um, do we not have other buildings that they could lease out or is it necessary that we build a new retail space? >> I I don't know. And Jeff, please correct me if I'm wrong, this mayor and and council member Taylor. I I don't I wouldn't say that we have any space that would be easy to convert for the needs that they have right now. We've totally uh been open to other locations if they wanted to. An intent has been in the direction from councils to be sure to keep a retail presence downtown. But we do have other land in other parts of downtown that could potentially be utilized for this. But we wanted to at least work with this site, keep a retail component on this site. But we would be open if the postal service was interested in other uh locations that the city controls downtown or that another private sector uh owner has downtown, we would be more than happy to work with them in that direction. [snorts] But we we just wanted to give them that assurance and you all the assurance and and the residents um in in in downtown the assurance that a retail operation would still um remain convenient uh for for those residents. >> Thank you. >> Well, the post office has been downtown ever since Mesa was born, so it's it's important that it continues to be here. Mr. Adams, >> thank you, Mayor. Just just a couple comments and a couple questions. So Rick, I just want to make sure the 3,000 is about the max in terms of students that assuming that we would move forward with the post office conversion. Looking about 3,000. >> Yeah, I think I think that's kind of our limit with the not just the post office with the other facilities in the some of them at least. Um if I mean if there were other future investments or future themes that we want to bring down here there could be there could be more. >> Okay. >> Uh we've also as the mayor mentioned talked about some potential to move some administrative functions here just you know office environment. >> Yeah. We'll have a brand new eightstory office building. >> Yes. >> Um let's see. And just for clarification Mr. McVey. Um, what we're looking at here on this slide is is a total of around 33 to 34 million. The 5 million is not included in the 25. Is that right? >> That is correct. >> Okay. The other's contingency. Okay. Um, okay. Yeah, I would uh I for one would like to see the Brookings report. Um, I'm only peripherally aware of how all that developed in the past and I think that would be informative to look that over and just refresh. Not a problem. >> Um, you know, I'm I'm glad you mentioned, Mr. Butler, you mentioned the research triangle. Very familiar with that area and how it has, uh, developed and and contributed to that economy, not only just in Raleigh, but Durham, uh, various areas there. So, thank you for that. The other comment I'd have is I I remember when the Konite School was originally proposed along First Street. Um having worked in that area in the very early 80s, one would have thought you rather ill advised to consider anything like that, but um I I have to admit it has it has anchored and and served as a genesis [clears throat] for a lot of other developments. So I I appreciate I appreciate someone mentioned that. Um, at the end of the day, what it really comes down to, and Mr. Butler, thank you for noting the uh emphasis that uh was discussed at the planning session on ROI and and and issues of that nature. At the end of the day, it all comes down to who pays for it, how much, and what's the ROI. So, I would be anxious to see where that goes. And I think for myself, it's premature at this time to really get into those numbers until you have something solid. for us to consider. >> Mr. Ready? No, >> real quick. Uh I think Rich, you mentioned, you know, downtown Phoenix and I I remember taking graduate school courses at the Kai Center early 2000s and it's still it was still uh not the best place to be at, you know, especially after five in that area. But uh maybe Rick you can you know since you did some work there you know just highlight some of the aspects of what has happened in downtown Phoenix and kind of you know it's not at the scale of what they have done there but kind of similarities of the potential for downtown Mesa and then second you mentioned some of the momentum some of the conceptual program elements and uh is internally at ASU do you feel like it's uh sooner than later to move on these these conceptual program elements or is it over time you know years in the making but I assume it's you know right now these as technology kind of evolves much rapidly uh but can you touch on some of those ele program elements because that's going to be critical to how we then leverage some of these economic opportunities, right, for downtown Mesa. How do we bring jobs? Because I think that's the next level for us to really think about how do we leverage and bring jobs and activity with industry that, you know, students are learning how to create and enable and move into the that economy, right? So but >> okay. Um, mayor uh C council member Heredia. So I was at the city of Phoenix uh as a deputy city manager during the time in which um the ASU campus uh was uh envisioned and we were kind of in the same place as Mesa was 10 years ago where um we had invested in um ballpark and an arena and people were coming to downtown but then they were leaving again and we were trying to figure out how could we get a 247 downtown And the the two ways to do that were creating a university campus and investing in the light rail. Um so those two things and a little bit the transformation of the convention center to being a much larger convention center with a convention hotel also impacted the vitality of downtown Phoenix particularly after hours. So, we were looking for access to education, uh, creative economy jobs as opposed to the boom and bust cycle of construction only, uh, jobs. Um, and a physical transformation into a vibrant downtown where people didn't just visit, but they lived and worked and played and lots of people came and stayed uh, and spent extra time there after a game instead of running home, that kind of thing. So the university was uh a big part of that the city over um over time but at the beginning it was around $230 million of investment um which in today's dollars would be a lot more than that of course um it was $230 million of investment in the initial campus which brought several schools down and since that time the city has continued to invest in additional elements of the newer buildings we brought there the Thunderbird School, uh the law school, um and soon our I'll be in front of the Phoenix City Council in the next few weeks to talk about uh their investment in the ASU Health building, which is inclusive of our new medical school. So, um they continue to see the value of that as they go along. Um and we brought over time, very quickly, around 15,000 students to downtown Phoenix with all of that. So tremendous uh transformation and as you know that is also just like your downtown seeing the impacts of mix has transformed downtown Phoenix in terms of billions of dollars of private investment uh in housing in retail restaurants etc. I myself moved downtown. I lived in the Awatuki and I moved downtown after the ASU campus opened because it was a much more desirable place to live and I still live there today. So I hope that answers the first part of your question. It has been transformative and it's certainly changed from when you started down there as well. Um and and then the second thing is about sort of the timing here and what's going on with students in the industry. I would say sooner is always better because these programs and these um types of uh technologies are transforming and the economy is pivoting toward them. [clears throat] So I think I said the last time I was here, you know, Pokemon Go was about all we understood about augmented reality when we were thinking about this. And now look at everything going on. our entire medical school uh anatomy program is not going to be taught with donor bodies or cadaavvers. It's going to be taught with um uh immersive media. Um and we just I we just traveled to Charlotte to visit the Wake Forest Medical School. They told us that the students learn anatomy better with immersive media. Um and then I think you were aware some of you may have seen Dreamscape learn. So that's an example of immersive media as a mechanism to transform education. Uh but it's it it can transform any industry. So the timing for that particular industry and the transformation going on in film and immersive media and animation and gaming. It's perfect timing. And we just launched this new comprehensive gaming major major which will grow regardless of where it is. Do you want it here or do you want it uh to stay in in Tempe or even be expanded in LA? That's kind of the the question mark there. So, >> I hope that answered your question. >> Miss Go forth. >> So, [laughter] I'm I'm curious, Rick, does it what's happening in downtown Phoenix as compared to downtown Mesa? You have entire schools, right, where a student takes every class. Now, is that does that matter because that's not happening here in Mesa and will it eventually happen where they're here for their entire class schedule and not just a couple upper level classes. So, they come in two days a week and they're out in an hour. >> Yeah. So, people do spend their entire time here as upper division students. A lot of them do. Um they practically live at the Max Center. Um and sometimes >> you're there late in the evening. I taught a class there uh in public administration. I just chose to have it there because it was an East Valley cohort and I'd be leaving at 9:00 and there were students still hanging out working in the mix center and this is on like a Wednesday or Thursday night. So, um a campus is we have four of them in the valley and we're not currently planning for another campus. You do have the polytenic campus which has everything from firstear students through graduate students and all of the student support services uh housing and counseling and uh rec centers and food service and all those kinds of things that a full campus has. The downtown Phoenix campus does have all those things um and does have the basics, right? So you don't have to if you're in downtown Phoenix and and our first year Kronhite student, you don't have to go to Tempe to get your English class and your math class. You can stay downtown in in Mesa. The intention has been different in downtown Mesa in part because we already have a big campus in Mesa, but also because the Tempe campus is a lot closer to this downtown Mesa center than it is uh to downtown Phoenix. Downtown Phoenix is probably double the distance. And so the ability to go back and forth. So say you're a first year student, you're kind of interested in film, you'll take most of your classes in Tempe. Um but by your junior year, you're going to be down here pretty much full-time. And so that's kind of how that works. And then we have graduate programs that are here fully. Now, we don't have any other locations like this [cough and clears throat] that are 1,500 or 3,000 students. So, as we grow, we are going to have to bring some of those other things like housing, like and President Crow's already given us some mission, figure out housing, um, and, uh, like some of the student services, maybe even food service. I I I'm not sure. But uh at least at this point we haven't said this is going to become a freshman through senior or through grad school uh fullyfledged campus. Um and I I don't see that right now. I see it as a robust center for that intensive training that you do as an upper division student, a junior or senior [clears throat] or a grad student. And it will and lots of professionals around here as well. But also there will be other other pieces that will come with critical mass. >> Okay. >> Does that answer your question? Um, as far as the post office, that is adding classrooms and therefore adding you said additional students, additional um classes that that are in that are complement what's happening at the mix, but are not just an expansion of what's happening at the mix, but new some new classes and things like that. Correct. >> Okay. >> Yes. Uh, Mayor Coun council member G for um it the post office allows us to expand our capacity particularly with the high ceilings in those studios technical training capacity. What that does is it allows us to utilize the resources of the mix more appropriately and then also use these new resources appropriately. So some things that are happening at the mix might transfer over to the uh post office freeing up capacity in the mix to grow and bring other programs in. Kind of has to do with the the level of sophistication of the equipment and the size of the studios and also sort of where you are in the creative process. You don't need a giant sound stage to do your first kind of laying out of your set and thinking about how you're going to do things. You can use a small studio and figure that out and then when it's ready for production or presentation, that's when you go to the the mix. So, those are the kinds of things we're thinking through. It really it's thinking about the post office has really allowed us to think about how we can use the mix even more efficiently and better. So Jeeoff, I think at the beginning of this um we had thought maybe the post the retail could stay. So that is that we're thinking that that is they're not compatible. We can't do that where the post office retail stays in the building and ASU uses some of it as well. >> Mayor Council Member Goforth, I can I can assure you we tested multiple different options including I think two or three in which we tried to retain the retail component in the same building with ASU. And the real challenge that we faced is that these are two distinct users and they need to have their own security. They had need to have their own entrances and they need to have their own facilities. And it became uh an exercise of of trying to find the most efficient use of that building space and still being cost effective in at the same time. And and in the end it just we just gravitated towards a standalone new retail facility just from the efficiencies of using that that building. uh ASU and and the post office, you know, they share a space in downtown Phoenix today and uh one of the first things we you know we heard from the post office is they don't necessarily like to share their space >> and and and and I think Rick would be would be willing to admit ASU doesn't necessarily like to share their space either. Um and so >> we like sharing with Jay in the studios [laughter] but that's it. Um, so when it when we really started looking at it from a cost perspective, once it became negligible from a cost perspective, it just made it this simple switch to to a standalone made sense. >> Okay. Um, and so I I think, you know, from listening to you and Jay talk about this as well as just the council, there's a there's a couple of uh goals here. And one is just a vibrant downtown, right? It bring people here. um education we we we've said on the council is one way and a catalyst to invest private investment which would be also bring jobs. So but what happens I mean how do we define success here? What if the jobs never come? Are we still do we still say this is a success? Are we okay with that? I mean how and if not what's the road to that ultimate goal? What does that look like? Um, mayor, uh, council member Taylor, sorry, council, go forth. I'm going to again answer first and then ask some of the smarter people to jump in. I would personally not enjoy, um, presenting to council um, a model in which we didn't have the econ development opportunities and and investment in our downtown and new jobs, new businesses that we have all um, um, suggested that these investments are meant for. Um, could we have success? And yes, I think we could have success in in significant reinvelopment opportunities, new new developments from, you know, new res new residential and retail developments. But I think ultimately creating that that downtown that is not only just a a residential downtown, but an employment downtown, that is success to us. And I and and I personally wouldn't want to come here and describe something other than that, you know, 5 10 years from now. and mayor, council member Goforth, I think that this is one slice of the bigger pie. Um, you have this downtown that we are still creating. We have a really good trajectory. Jeff used the term momentum earlier and I think that that that's exactly what we're doing is just creating additional momentum. But you have all these different pieces that we're putting together to build this really vibrant and hustling downtown. And I think we should expect jobs and additional capital investment. Um I I think it was pretty telling when we had ASU announce that they were coming and doing the mix center. um it there were a lot of dominoes that fell after that um really around residential and some additional companies that came to downtown. So I think this is just one more thing to add to that mix. Um but certainly higher education is a really strong anchor for a downtown. Um and the higher education recruitment initiative started years ago. Um, when I first started, um, the mayor was really intent on on having downtown Mesa be a hub for multiple educational institutions. He had been to Boston and really loved loved that um that vibe and the creative class and having students all over your downtown. So, that that was the vision. Um, and we certainly attracted a number of universities and colleges. one managed to stay that was Benedicting University and they've continued to grow um they've added athletics but I think when ASU came it was it was at a different level and the number of students are certainly um you know the volume of students for ASU has been greater than Benedictton but you've got you've got higher education additional residential coming in um additional commercial light rail is a great anchor So, it it really is a mix of things happening and we'll we'll continue to to reinvest and need to reinvest. It's not like we this is a oneand done. >> Yeah. >> And mayor uh council councilman go forth let me just add one thing which is that I see economic development as um both strategy and serendipity. And sometimes, for instance, if you look at downtown Phoenix, if we had targeted a particular job sector related to, I don't know, media, Kronhite being there or uh whatever, I'm not sure we would have necessarily gotten that result, but we got a bunch of other really interesting jobs that gravitated to downtown Phoenix because we were there. And so it's it's there's both going to be the sort of that targeted approach that we've discussed, but also sort of a wow, Mesa is a really cool place to be. I'm going to move my company there. And it will have nothing to do with immersive media or film. So I think you're going to get a little a little of both. >> Yeah. And I I I I think the ultimate goal of of bringing people in jobs is is a good one. And I um but the ultimate question, as Rich said too, is at what cost? and what benefit to the to the residents and I'm not sure what their tolerance level is for them for investment. Um >> uh I they certainly want to see that ratio more uh private to public investment. So but I think most of them understand you have to have a little bit of public investment. But when we really get into how much and what is that benefit I think that's going to be important for you all to let us know those numbers. what has been the private investment? I know we've generally talked about it before in different presentations, but we really need to understand um that public to to private investment ratio and what has it been over the years um so that we can justify like I said I you know I don't know what the the tolerance level of of my residents are for that. So we I'll certainly be taking that uh temperature. So thank you. >> Well, this has been great. You know, when I asked the question, what would be the downsides of moving forward? I've just heard great questions and great answers and conversation about how to move forward. I I remember I can just share when the mix was part of our conversation back in the day. I know myself and Mr. Ready were on council. Uh there was a lot of consternation about it, but the program has moved forward. [snorts] I I think it I personally I know it's shown itself. I don't know why you keep bringing up the Walter Kronhite School, business school, but my son got his MBA there, so we utilize that. The other thing is um I look at when you throw a rock in the in a pond or lake, there's a ripple, the ripple effect. And I see so much downtown that can be benefited for increased activity like our museums, event space. Some of our downtown businesses and developers are struggling. Just things that are happening that we can help accentuate the growth and create a vibrant downtown. And I think this is one of the things when I talked about long long range planning that long range planning is working out for downtown Mesa and especially these specific areas. So with that, I think you have direction to move forward, right? And come back with the numbers. These numbers don't really scare me because I know they're going to change. So >> then they will scare you, >> right? [laughter] >> I've been scared before. So with that, let's take a break. And uh I think we're all done with >> not I know we have the lightwalk, but let's take a short break. So, so they're going to switch out um the PDF for that so that we there there's something about the font that was throwing it off, but we think we have a fix for that. So, while we take that brief break, uh Amanda will come up and switch that out so that the presentation will track. >> All right. Let's be back in five. >> All right, Mayor. >> We're on the home stretch. >> Perfect timing. Um mayor, um recognizing that we've been here for a while, we'll continue to try and um move through this rapidly. Um again in conjunction with the the ASU creative technologies concept for the post office council also um direct us to work move forward with developing a concept for a public space that connects all the civic assets from University Drive down to Main Street and that will help capture greater econ greater econ capture greater economic activity today and drive future economic development called the lightwalk. Um development of lightwalk was shaped by eight guiding principles that together are intended to create an active connector that creates a sense of place that attracts people, economic activity and future development. Um as previously um described the scope of the lightwalk was from university to Mesa Drive. Along the lightwalk alignment, the existing drivers of activities such as the amphitheater, the convention center, library mix, Mesa Art Center generates approximately 1 million annual visitors to downtown today. Additional drivers of activity such as 55 51 through 55 East Maine, the AC by Marriott Hotel and the Shryan House and Culdeac are planned in proximity to the proposed lightwalk and we'll and the lightwalk has been designed to include additional nodes of activity that can be programmed to generate additional activity. We do recognize that we are in Arizona and that um the summer months require that any concept for a public space considers users com user comfort. To that end, the lightwalk concept incorporates natural landscaping and structure to create shade and interest. The lightw walk was also developed along seven program zones that have distinct elements that reflect the adjacent uses but and but over under an overarching theme that naturally allows phase development as part of future public andor private investments. Starting with this bird's eye view of the lightwalk. I'll quickly run through several renderings of the lightwalk concept. So this first looking from first street northwest towards the ASU creative technologies at the post office. This one kind of high is intended to highlight that improved pedestrian crossing of first street. Looking west essentially from the library parking lot towards the um ASU creative technologies building. Rick teased this one in nighttime. And this is gener this rendering is intended to highlight how the lightwalk can provide a connection between public space and ASU's academic activity similar to how the plaza works at the mix center. Looking southwest from the space between the library and convention center towards ASU creative technologies and again looking west from the library parking lot. This rendering reflects the importance of night architecture as an important element of creating place in downtown. The concept gives a nod to Mesa's heritage of lighting up Main Street with neon, but also the future light associated with the downtown arts and innovation district. Moving on from the lightwalk renderings, Jay is going to discuss the intended economic development benefits of the lightwalk concept. Thanks, Jeff. Mayor and council, there are a number of benefits to having a unique asset like this uh in Mesa, particularly in downtown Mesa. It uh not only strengthens the main street connectivity from the amphitheater and convention center, but it enhances the overall experience for visitors, convention goers, residents, and employees. And I'm sure you can imagine if you're coming here for a convention, um when you walk out of the convention center now, you don't really have a sense of where to go. Um, and this would be something that guides you to Main Street and to the restaurants and retail along Main Street. So, that that connectivity is really important. I also think that um the the cool thing about the Lightwalk is it checks all of the boxes that we were talking about at the council strategic planning session um around placemaking. So you've got this destination that you're creating, but it it also promotes accessibility, connectivity. It's a place for gathering. Um there can be food trucks and markets along the way. It also anchors additional commercial development. So, when we're looking at office development um and and just commercial development in general, they would love to be located along a a lightwalk like this, not only during the day, but in the evening. Um it's just such a an unusual thing to have um in a downtown. And I think they've done a really nice job of kind of designing this walk with limited space. um you know we don't have a tempe town lake so this creates something in our downtown that really invites people to come and and stay and this is also one of those destination drivers but it it lengthens the stay for day trippers um and just in terms of of what you can do along the lightwalk there'd be a lot of um opportunities for activation with special events um and music along the way the way the nodes are set up in the initial design is um really lends itself well to those special events and small um small opportunities for for placemaking as well. >> Um much like higher education has been a proven driver of economic development, public spaces that connect nodes of activity is also a proven driver economic development. Stephanie is going to quickly share u three case studies that highlight benefits other cities have experienced from similar public space investment. >> Thank you Jeeoff. Mayor Council, the Riverwalk in Tampa, Florida is a pedestrian walkway that you all may be familiar with from your time at the most recent NLC conference. During the construction of this Riverwalk, a $40 million convention center expansion was completed. Following the expansion of the convention center, the volume and caliber of conferences booked increased significantly, contributing to the economic growth in the area. Here we have the belt line in Atlanta, Georgia. This has completed seven miles of a planned 22m multi-use trail and it's already had an impact of $9 billion and has created nearly 30,000 jobs. and the Culture Trail in Indianapolis. Um, it was an eight mile trail that was opened in 2013. It's had significant economic economic benefit to the city. Between 2008 and 2014, properties within 500 ft increased by $1 billion. The Culture Trail is currently completing an updated economic analysis and has found that these values have nearly doubled. In 2015, the average person spending time on the trail spent $53 a person. The current economic analysis being completed is reflecting even higher spending levels today. This trail illustrates how longer visitor stays correlate with increased economic activities. In addition to the case studies, Jay is going to provide an overview of independent economic devel benefit analysis commissioned by the city for the lightwalk. Thanks, Stephanie. Mayor and Council, um we hired uh Sarah Merley and Associates to do an economic impact analysis of um really just the lightwalk and it was clear that there were economic benefits from the lightwalk particularly, but there's also an inherent value that we would gain over time with the additional develop development that would go around the lightwalk. Um that was not put into consideration. Um we we kept this particular study very very conservative. So we took a look at what the amphitheater, convention center, library and the Mesa Art Center generate annually for visitors which is a million. And then we took roughly a third of that number. So 327,000 Lightwalk users annually. Again a very conservative estimate. So it's just taking the existing visitors that we're getting annually. I believe that that's a very conservative estimate, but of those 327,000 they would spend on retail and restaurants alone $39 per person. That number comes from Compass Longwoods, which um analyzes visitor spending for day trippers to um to the state. And so normally they take into account entertainment and transportation as well. So that number is higher. But again, we just backed into restaurant and retail and wound up with the $39 per person. So that $16 million in annual revenue would support uh or annual downtown retail and restaurant spending would support 137 jobs and $4.8 million in annual labor income. So the $372 million in total visitor spending would be over 20 years and that would then equate to 7.4 4 million in city sales tax revenue, just city sales tax revenue over 20 years. And again, that doesn't take into account the additional benefit of visitors, additional visitors coming into the market to participate um on the lightwalk. >> Okay, mayor, council, just two more slides left. Um before we move on to council discussion and direction on the lightwalk, we quickly want to take you through a tour of the lightwalk. And just forgive me while I switch between screens. [music] [music] Better over here. >> [music] >> Happy [music] birthday. >> [music] [music] [music] >> Thank you. >> [music] >> Is this our time to ask questions or >> certainly is Mayor um >> council >> is there >> mayor and just just to maybe frame the discussion as you get into it staff's [clears throat] just looking for your feedback now we've we've heard u for a while now the intention of the council to want to activate from the convention center into downtown. How do we draw people into downtown? We talked about that a lot during the culde-sac discussion as well. We're going to have all of these new residents and how do we tie them into the to the restaurants and businesses of downtown. How do we capture more of the um convention business and bring that into downtown? And it's it's also part of as we discussed the uh RFQ and the discussions we're having with the convention center and the future of it. And and so this this is all part of that. How are we doing a better job of getting people into downtown and then keeping them downtown? And and we've all, whether it be as tourist or as alluded to at conferences, have have gone uh to different cities all across the country and seen um what these kind of iconic spaces um mean to an area, whether it's the Highline in New York or the or the uh areas that they spotlight in this presentation. And sometimes they're big, sometimes they're just smaller blocks or or just an area that become a destination, but they still have a distinct uh draw on how you bring people in and tie spaces together and increase the desire for people to want to go and recreate and spend time and and and be in that space. So, we're just looking for your direction today that we're on the all pun intended, I guess, on the right path um on this and on the right path. And also I I know Duke was alluded to earlier, but this was uh he was really the the grand vision of this um starting years ago with conversations with Dr. Crow and and uh and Duke and and others about how this all ties into the fabric of not just um the ASU campus, but for what downtown um and the opportunities of these cultural assets and city assets from the amphitheater on down that that we have. So, uh, we're just looking for your feedback and thoughts about this and then we'll come back. Um, if if if council likes the direction we're going, we'll come back with future ideas. This would certainly be a phased project that this wouldn't be a one-stop shop uh project. It'll it'll take different forms and and depending on the timing and the the need. For example, part of this we would want to save some of the phases around the convention center to wait until we see kind of what decisions are made there. If there's a different operator or whatnot that we'd want to have them at the table to make decisions about about that. Um and and so we're going to be able to phase this and scale it to uh to make sense u for the council. So, >> thank you, Mr. Readia. Um my question Scott uh where are we at on the convention center mentioned RFQS and amphitheater discussions? I know we had >> several months p ago uh conversation but where we're at on that timeline. >> Yeah, mayor uh council member the RQ should be out in the field this week um on that and so we got a lot of good u feedback. We we enlisted a private sector consultant who had worked in this industry before that helped us um draft that and and to make it something that we hope will be draw a lot of interest and we believe it will from some of the preliminary discussion that we had. And so that that will be hitting the streets any any day now. It might have been today, but it'll be uh either today or the next few days that that'll be out. and that that will help frame kind of the narrative and discussion about what we see with the amphitheater in the convention center. >> Mr. Adams, >> thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, conceptionally, I I think it's attractive and I I get what we're trying to do here. Um, as this moves forward, I think that I'll have some more specific financial questions. For example, I'm having a hard time visualizing how someone in Indianapolis would spend on average $53 per visit. That's the average person, which means somebody spends nothing and somebody spends a lot more. So, when we get further into this, I'm going to need some real hard data on what are they spending that $53 on. And I'm sure there I'm sure it's solid data, but I don't have enough information on that to rely on it. Uh, nor am I having an an easy time understanding how someone visiting our lightwalk would spend on average $39. Maybe that's per event. I don't know. I need more data on that. Um, this one of the three things we've seen so far today, um, I I I look at it this way. Um, if if we represent in this, we represent the investors. The investors are the taxpayers. That's the taxpayers's checkbook. So, I I feel like I need to be able to justify to the investor, the taxpayer, why this makes sense. And I I'm not seeing that. So, I'm not saying I don't like the concept. Great concept. Looks really nice. Um, you know, it's probably the best job we can do here in a desert to keep it uh somewhat bearable in the summertime. But um this one I I will need personally uh to to see a whole lot of hard data on how this pays an ROI. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else over here? >> I just have a question. >> Um [clears throat] so I've been to the Riverwalk and I've actually and I've been to the Belt Line, both of which are uh great projects and and I've seen the investment on both of those. I'm just wondering though in those states were they able to capture back you know because when we invest public dollars into something like this the benefit is really to the adjacent private land owners right and to the businesses. So as there as we don't have any mechanism of recapturing the investment we made do we in the state of Arizona um to when when we increase the value of that land and property um adjacent to something like this is there a way to to capture back the investment at all? uh mayor uh council member go forth um under statute I don't believe there's any legal mechanism where we can um essentially capture a component or a portion of the increased land values that would be achieved um adjacent now I think it would be very important to note though that the only owner of the land across this entire length of the lightw walk with the exception of the Irving school Mesa public schools is the city of Mesa so the direct beneficiary of those increased land values As the city of Mesa, as we work in the future, it was very conscious on our part to show a lot of underutilized parking lots, surface parking lots along the convention center as redevelopment opportunities because investment in a in a facility in a lightwalk like this is something that we feel strongly that we can really go out to the private development community and really market to redevelopment opportunities. You know, from a funding perspective, I I was conscious in saying that that these phases could be built as part of public and private investment. It's very possible that we could work with private developers on those those areas to develop not only the vertical construction of office, residential, mixed use, but also those public amenities that would be adjacent to it and support the lightwalk. I >> I think that's great. I mean, that's typically, you know, when we talk about placemaking, that's really what we like to see, right? We like to see that private investment into the in placemaking. I think the city of Mesa does its part pretty well in in um what we've created around the city as far as placemaking goes. And what we're really trying to do is get um those private investors to to invest in placemaking, too. So, I think that's great. >> Yeah. And mayor, council member, you you think of I mean we we highlighted more kind of linear linear parks in in the presentation, but when you think of just the the idea of what a gathering place, what an activation can do. Council member Taylor referenced the other day just even the water tower park in Gilbert, you know, how how do you get to that $53? Well, the person that comes down to maybe take their kids to the splash pad then goes over and eats at the restaurant, you know, or has a glass of wine or whatever the case may be. and and that's how we're driving that economic impact and and that activity. So, it's it's something to draw people in. And then the private sector um has then developed those places where people are going to go and they're going to spend their sales tax dollars and then we're going to be the beneficiary of of that increased economic activity. So, that's that's the notion. You're right. We I wish we you know, we we all wish we had tiff. you know, our our lives would be so much uh you know, better if we joined the other 49 states and uh had that ability, but uh we we we have to make do with what we have right now. >> Thank you, Miss Taylor. >> When you were coming up with a concept, uh it it looks really cool. By the way, did you go to any of the local businesses around here as you were coming up with this concept to ask for their feedback on a lightwalk? And what did they say? Would it I mean do we have that information? Jay's just smiling. I'm just waiting for Jeff to answer. >> Mayor Council Member Taylor, I think Jay's smiling because she's going to love my answer here and she knows the answer. Um I will say this and I will say this with um we we specifically did not have any discussions with with our neighbor our business community um or or other adjacencies meaning the library or the convention center because this is truly just a concept. Okay. really this is about uh the idea and setting a framework. If this moves forward, there's going to have to be a significant amount of real um you know final design outreach, a lot of effort that that that frankly we would be wasting a lot of our staff resources and time doing today if the council doesn't agree with this concept as a as a idea to move forward. >> I know I'm trying to quantify how much is this costing us just to do the research and everything. Um, one thing I would say if if we are going to move forward with this, depending on how the council votes, just a thought, I didn't, and this was based on the video, and I know this is a precious resource, but I didn't see any water features, and I didn't see any mischiefs, so I'm just giving you my little >> I >> observation. >> Um, mayor, council member Taylor, I I failed. There is a there is a specific rendering in which we do show mist is and water and uh the idea of you know one of the guiding principles was the idea that this space should be 5 to 10 degrees cooler than the everything surrounding as if you were driving through the groves in the summer on a summer night that you should be able to feel the difference. Um water and shade mist and shade are the ways you can accomplish that. From a practical perspective, I immediately thought, how much is this going to cost in maintenance annually? You know, when the lights go out, if the misters break, when things start to look bad, the foliage needs to look good at all times because that's why people come to these kinds of things. You know, it's basically got to look pristine like 24/7. So, that's just a practical thought process that I was going through. I love the the concept is beautiful. It's a lot better than what I was imagining. So, you know, kudos to putting the nice rendering together. Mayor, can I and and Jeff can attest to this too though the while we didn't go out and hold a public meeting or anything with downtown businesses. What we have heard from our downtown businesses, particularly the Delta Hotel and from Culac has been the crucial element of that connectivity between their um residents or uh attendees um hotel attendees into downtown and how that's essential lifeline for both of their uh business models is the activation of that going forward. So, um, so that that is one thing we we do hear loud and clear, and I wouldn't want [clears throat] them screaming from the top of the building saying, "Hold on. We've we've been in your ear this entire time saying, "This only works if we create a sense of place that helps um, you know, our residents and and our attendees or or our um, hotel uh, occupants be able to to access the downtown." >> I thought of one other thing. Um, is this I just need to have one really basic give it to me like I'm five years old. Is this kind of like Kevin Cosner if you build it they will come field of dreams. >> Is that what we're thinking? >> Mayor Councilwoman Taylor um it's not that simple but yes it is. If we build this this will be a a place unlike anything else in the valley. um are from a competitive advantage perspective, I believe that this would put us on a in in a on a level um above our our competitors in the valley. >> So, we're talking about the the public funding it. We're hoping that it would return for every dollar a$150 or whatever and it goes back into our coffers. Um help us think of a way that if this were to be presented, how could we potentially get private equity to invest in the actual construction of the lightwalk first and foremost? And secondarily, if we were to make money off of it, how does that go back then to the public? Like not just giving them more places to go walk around and do things because they're going to want to see dollars in their bank account over that. So that's a very real conversation that we have to be able to have with the public when we present these really cool ideas. >> Miss Stef, >> um yeah. Um um just to kind of my my number one thing about that and the idea of um dollars, you know, that the people come and spend is create creating sales tax revenue and we are very very dependent on that source of revenue to run our city. So overall, it keeps our taxes um and costs lower the more revenue we can generate through sales. Um I I think it's definitely a thing of placemaking. We don't have a Tempe Town Lake, but it becomes a place for people to gather and directing. I hear this again and again from the convention center, Mesa AMP, the Del Delta Hotel, how in order to get people there and people down to Main Street, we need to have a place of connection. And then we're going to have Culdeac as well, the neighborhoods to the north. often complain there's no real nice connection to come to downtown. So it it creates a thorough fair where we can gain e economic activity and um as Jeff said we're not looking to do the entire thing. It'll be phased. There might be some opportunities with um collaborating with private investment like you said if we build over those massive asphalt parking lots and and and build over it and do something and then we could say part of the development agreement of of building here is that you need to contribute to this lightw walk and that'll be part of it. So I think we'll look for those opportunities. Sometimes we can find grants along the way um for placemaking. We've seen a lot of that in the past. Not right now it's it's pretty soft, but it's not unusual. Um we've seen some of these other places that are mentioned were off of grants. Uh I know the Tampa one were off raise grants. So um there there's a lot of opportunities to fund this that is not just flat, you know, bond it. That's it. I think we would be creative, you know, have a commitment for people to have the vision of that and building the downtown and and making these connections to our neighborhoods and our businesses and the assets that we have here. It is a loss really with so many assets to the north of our downtown that doesn't don't have a connection to downtown. And I think once we do that, we are really moving people and having spaces for people to gather. Um, third places, common places where people can hang out and not spend money is a huge request from our community. Where can I go and not have to buy something? Where can I go to be with my community? Endless opportunities as well as event spaces. We could probably even rent out some of these areas here. So, I think it's just a matter of placemaking, tying together assets so that everything can leverage all everything else that's going on in downtown and create the flow and create the place. Um, who wouldn't want to be in a shaded walkway? [laughter] [gasps] Um, if you know along all these things, we can go to the library and then we can go up here. We can even go over to the shrine house and then we can go over to the museum museum is really going to you know pull over to the um west side of downtown as well. So um and there we played with ideas of having public art along there looking opportunities getting grants to do that. We want to make it an arts and innovation district. I think it has a lot of possibilities and just creating the template, setting the table to allow what we have here to work cohesively, make that ecosystem. Can >> I just make one more comment? I mean, Jeff, I don't even think [clears throat] it's build it and they will come. Really, we're we're leveraging I mean, the economic impact was people that are already here. We just want to get them to the places they can spend their money. >> Yes. really >> mayor. You want to smooth that out for us? [laughter] >> Yeah. Mayor, council member go forth. I mean, the lowest hanging fruit available to us is capturing the economic activity that we're missing today. Um um but there is a great economic um activity opportunity for us to capture what isn't there today as well. >> Will this will the students at the mix help will they be involved in this when you were conceptualizing this? Because I see I mean I see a lot of opportunity for I think uh we at ASU well first of all the the originator of the ideas right here. But uh but we we at ASU would be happy to help as you move along with the design and the conceptualization of how this would actually work if that's what you're asking. Yeah. And it probably be led by Mr. Ryder. >> Well, thank you Mr. Ryder for being here. I know we talked about this probably what four years ago somewhere in there three or four years ago about moving this project forward. So it is exciting. Friday morning I had I just went out to Fountain Hills to meet with the mayor there and just you know have relationships. We have business relationships with the city and with Fountain Hills as well. And there were [clears throat] having the Fountain Hills Festival over 100,000 people Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Why none of them live there? Well, but why can't we have the same in downtown Mesa? You know, we we struggle sometimes. Sometimes we just need that uh bait. I'll use the word bait for sales tax revenue. But more than that, give people a great experience in in Mesa and I think this will provide that. Um hearing nothing else on this, uh we could just do a motion to adjourn this meeting and start the next one. How would you like that? >> So move. Thank you, vice mayors. Thank you, Mr. Adams. >> I believe we have the direction we need. Yes. >> All in favor say I. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you all. Thank you.