This transcript features Mayor Jeff Giefer leading a city council meeting, joined by Council Members John Rog, Ben Cornett (referred to as "Mr. Carr" and "Tom" in the dialogue), Greg Anderson (referred to as "Tufty" and "G"), and Lindsay Cremona. City Administrator Kristina Handt (referred to as "Kim") and City Planner Jennifer Swanson also participate. [0:00] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Slowly but surely. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. I'm losing my leg here. All right, all had a chance to take a look at our regular agenda—it's pretty small this month. Do I have a motion to approve the regular agenda? [0:35] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** I'll move, Mr. Giefer. [0:42] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Moved. Do I have a second, gentlemen? [0:45] **Council Member John Rog:** Second. [0:47] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Council Member Cornett, this is for just the regular agenda. Moved right into regular; we've got regular first then consent. Okay. Mr. Cornett, do you vote Yes on the regular agenda? [0:53] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yes. [0:55] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [0:56] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Aye. [0:57] **Council Member Lindsay Cremona:** Aye. [0:58] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** All right. Now we move to the consent agenda. I'm sure you've all had a chance to take a look at it, our bills and everything else in there. If you have any questions, now is the time; otherwise, I’d entertain a motion. [1:10] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** I'd like to make a comment. Go ahead. I'd like to make a motion to reconsider the motion from last month's meeting regarding the city engineer and his appointment, if Kim can find a place to fit that in later in the meeting. [1:33] **Kristina Handt:** Mr. Mayor, council members, that would have been an addition to the regular agenda, not the consent agenda. The consent agenda is stuff that we don't normally need to discuss—it's bills and that type of thing. In order to do that, you'd have to come down to—and Kim, just go ahead and correct me where I'm wrong—under "discussion items from city council." [1:50] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Could that be added? It won't be a motion, it won't be an action item. I realize that, but we can add it for next month, or no? I think that's what you were—you weren't arguing the consent agenda, you were just making that comment, or were you trying to put it on the regular agenda? Is that what you were trying to do? What are we trying to do there? I'm not sure it would fit there, but we could do it at the end. [2:21] **Kristina Handt:** Just do it at the end. We already approved the regular agenda. I’m going to note the contract has been signed; it's in place. [2:37] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, it's—I'm not quite sure what you want to discuss, but we can certainly discuss it other places. If you would like to reconsider your vote, that's going to have to be on another regular agenda, and we would have to break that contract which has been signed. We already voted to approve it. I'll make some notes during staff updates on this issue. Okay. All right, yeah, let's do that. So, do we have a motion on the consent agenda? Progress, boy. Oh, that's not great. Do we have a second on the consent? We're not going to redo it, gentlemen. Giefer? Oops, sorry. Rog? [3:08] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [3:12] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Aye. [3:15] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [3:18] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Aye. [3:20] **Council Member Lindsay Cremona:** Aye. [3:22] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Mayor votes Aye. Thanks, Kim. City Planner Jennifer Swanson, do we have you? [3:27] **Jennifer Swanson:** Yes, good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. I am here. Let's see here. I'm using a different laptop this evening, and my video is a little bit choppy, so I may turn it off actually for my presentation to make sure that it comes through all right. So, before you this evening, we actually have a request for a final plat from Stillwater Oaks. You recall we looked at this about a year and a half ago. It was, I think, about 2022 when this first was presented and came through via preliminary plat. During that time, we had several comments and conditions that were noted in the resolution to grant the preliminary plat, obviously one of those things being that a development agreement was executed in conjunction with the final plat. So this evening, we are taking a look at both the final plat and the development agreement that was in your packets. [4:12] **Jennifer Swanson:** The staff report in your packets identified, I think it was 18 or 20 different conditions of the preliminary plat. The vast majority of those have been taken care of. Those that have not been taken care of either were brought forward into either the final plat resolution this evening or within the development agreement, which are prepared and ready for your review. Both the city engineer and the City Attorney have reviewed the development agreement and are comfortable with it. The development agreement was also presented to the applicant, the developer, who is in receipt of it and is aware of the conditions that are identified in it. It's pretty straightforward in terms of what we've looked at prior when we've had other final plats. [5:01] **Jennifer Swanson:** The key is that the final plat has to match the preliminary plat essentially—you know, lot lines, road configurations, access points, etc. When we did the review, it was determined that the plat itself is relatively consistent and essentially matches the preliminary plat, and that those items that needed to be updated or addressed were addressed as part of the final plat package. The other pieces that are of note with respect to the final plat are the Watershed District's review. It's our understanding that they do have preliminary conditional approval of that. All permitting with respect to that stormwater into the Watershed actually is also a requirement and identified within the development agreement. That's very similar to how we've handled other projects like the Gateway and Farms of Grant. [5:46] **Jennifer Swanson:** The other piece of it is they are proposing to actually do this in two phases. So you'll see on the final plat when you take a look at the graphic this evening that essentially the portion that is north of 88th is in an outlot. That outlot would be platted in the future into eight lots. That platting process will happen in a year or two years. At that time, that's when the road or the new cul-de-sac would go in, in effect, for that portion that's the northerly part of the subdivision. And then the seven lots that are proposed as part of this phase one are identified south of it. So when you take a look at the way the letter of credit is established and developed, it's actually all around those improvements that are in phase one as opposed to both phase one and phase two. So when they come back for phase two, we would amend the development agreement to address the phase two lots. I think that's a pretty broad overview of what you're taking a look at this evening. If you have any specific questions with respect to the final plat or the development agreement, I am happy to answer them. [7:21] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Gentlemen, questions for Jennifer? Looks pretty straightforward to me, but you might have some concerns. [7:30] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, I got one question, Jennifer. What was—I thought I read in here there was a variance or something. Was there a variance in this? I think I read language in here something about a variance. Was there a variance? [7:50] **Jennifer Swanson:** Mr. Mayor, members of the council, there was not a variance on this one. If some language got carried over from a different project—I do know that we were looking at especially for the development agreement, we used a template. So if there's a reference to a variance, that should be removed from there. There was not a variance on this one. [8:07] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, because I read through here and I couldn't find one. I should have highlighted that language because I'm missing that, but okay. No, that's fine as long as there wasn't one. Good. [8:25] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** That's it. Jennifer, thanks for coming tonight. We're glad—you're welcome, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, we're glad to see you show up tonight. Phase one and phase two off of McKusick first. And just a very general question for you first: I did read through the development plan, but I kind of would like to hear you say it. All the mitigation as required by other authorities has been completed, is that correct? [9:00] **Jennifer Swanson:** With respect to the environmental mitigation? Yes, it's my understanding that that is correct, that they have done the mitigation that was required. We did have in our preliminary plat resolution that they need to provide documentation of what was done out there and for the city engineer to review it. So I believe that carried over as well, and that is still something that we need to have documentation put in the file, but it's my understanding that it has been completed. [9:56] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Excellent. And just a quick follow-up to that: that mitigation has already taken place in phase one. Has any mitigation taken place in phase two, and has that been completed? [10:15] **Jennifer Swanson:** You know, I would have to confirm with the developer, but I actually do believe that it was completed in both phase one and phase two based on what my understanding is. Again, we'll make sure to get that documentation. If it's not been completed for phase two, obviously that would need to be completed prior to us granting a final plat on that phase as well. [10:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Exactly. And I just wanted to make sure that that was out there and everyone understood that this developer has done the mitigation required by the MPCA and is most likely done with the second phase as well. I'm pretty sure I ran across that here somewhere, but even if it has not been done yet, as you say, it will not be developed, dug, and foundations poured for about a year or so, so plenty of time to get that done and to have that within the conditions of the development plan. Jennifer, thanks for that very much. That was about my only question. I think Mr. Rog might have a question for you. [10:44] **Council Member John Rog:** I do. And I just was looking at the picture, so I'm going to pull it back to the language. It says, "Number two: applicant must improve that portion of McKusick and 88th Street North identified with the city engineer." How much are we talking about here? I was trying to determine that from the picture and I can't really ascertain that really clearly. [11:15] **Jennifer Swanson:** I would actually need Brad—excuse me, Brad [Reifsteck]—to confirm. He worked with the developer on how much of that portion of road would be improved as a contingency to the development approval. That discussion happened as part of the preliminary plat approval. And so Brad looked at the plans, the final plat plans, and reviewed it, said it looked consistent with what they had discussed on the preliminary plat. But I would actually need Brad to confirm exactly what that distance was, if you will, what that lineal footage was. [12:00] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Then I'll do a follow-up. So let's say hypothetically that they are doing from the intersection, which is the stop sign, all the way to where they are entering. Can the city use some funds for doing another portion of McKusick while they're doing that? That is another discussion to be had independent of this discussion, but you do have that right. Brad Reifsteck, our engineer, that we've capped/negotiated, from Highway 96 past their entrance and on 88th from where it tees up here all the way down to their entrance and past. That's even a longer stretch than what is out on McKusick. So they have two entrances, obviously. Yeah, it looks like about a quarter-million dollars' worth of improvements that Brad got for us writing on top of this development agreement. [12:28] **Council Member John Rog:** Okay. Yeah, excellent. [12:35] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, good question, John. And one second, Jennifer. Your additional question there would require an additional piece to one of our agendas in order to discuss that, and certainly if you were to discuss it with the clerk beforehand, I think she could kind of talk you through the parameters of that, right? Well, just in our—what we were talking about earlier. Yes, no, no, and Kim would be the one kind of to bring you up to speed on those types of things. So I think that would be the way to go. Anything else, gentlemen? Okay, Kim. [13:10] **Kristina Handt:** All right. Who'd like to make a motion for the Stillwater Oaks residential development project? And I do not have that number in front of me; someone will have to help me. Resolution 2024-5. [13:15] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Thank you. Need a motion. [13:20] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** I'll make the motion. [13:22] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Thank you, sir. Do I have a second for this? [13:25] **Council Member John Rog:** Second. [13:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Mr. Anderson? Cornett? [13:35] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Aye. [13:37] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [13:39] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Aye. [13:41] **Council Member Lindsay Cremona:** Aye. [13:43] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Mayor votes Aye. Thanks, Kim. That is going to be a nice development there; it's going to be tucked away. I am jealous for the people that are going to have lots there. That is going to be a really, really nice development. They will fly out of there like fresh-baked bread, I'm sure. All right, no action item, don't have any new business, unfinished business doesn't look like it. [14:05] **Kristina Handt:** Mr. Mayor, we have got the development agreement 582. Ah, that was our plat, I'm sorry. I need two different motions. Yep. [14:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Who would like to make a motion for the Stillwater Oaks development agreement? Gentlemen, are you happy with the development agreement we got? Got to make a motion. Need a motion. [14:34] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** I make the motion. [14:40] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** All right, Mr. Anderson. And a second? [14:45] **Council Member John Rog:** Second it. [14:47] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** All righty. Cornett? [14:50] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Aye. [14:52] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [14:54] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Aye. [14:56] **Council Member Lindsay Cremona:** Aye. [14:58] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Mayor votes Aye, of course. And what is your second one, Kim? What is that one? I thought we already did that one, or the third one? [15:10] **Kristina Handt:** We already did the 2024 final plat. That was the resolution for final plat. Yeah, so there's only two: the agreement which is done and the plat. [15:15] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** That's it. We didn't do two separate motions? Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, I got it now. I'm sorry, it was confusing the two. I thought you had something else. I'm looking at these two going, "Hey, we're done," and you're trying to keep make me keep going. Yay. Thank you. [15:20] **Kristina Handt:** Staff updates. Oh, I got a lot. I'm going to keep you guys here all night. Oh good, glad to hear it. Let's see, I mentioned your pothole patching contract, so you are aware of that. Your assessor is working through the end of the assessing season, which is to the end of May, and he is retiring. So I've kept him on board as long as I can. I will be getting some bids for other private assessors. I certainly can obtain a bid from Washington County if you would like; however, I will—it's going to be more expensive. But if you want that bid, that's fine. [16:07] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** It seems as though we should have a quick discussion on this real quick. It seems as though we've done quite well with a private assessor versus Washington County. We did save significant dollars on that and did not miss any of the imputed services that Washington County has told us that we would receive in the past or were receiving. I can't notice a difference between what I'm seeing between the private and the county. So what are your thoughts on that, guys? Just go out for bids on private, or what seems to make sense? [16:45] **Kristina Handt:** I just wanted it to be clear, I am getting bids from two private firms. I just want to know if you would like—my next question was going to be the county one. [16:52] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, I've had private, it was a horrible experience, and I've had private—the last one was a great experience—and I've had Washington County, it was a fine experience. So I think we got to get both. [17:15] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Okay, gentlemen, that's one out of five. You want to talk to the county and private, or just the privates as we've been using for the past eight years or whatever? Same person going to stay up? No, he's retired. We have to go out and find some other private guys or go back to the county. We're just talking getting bids here, right? Just bids. [17:30] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** I'm okay with that. I guess I'd be okay going with the private and we can always add the county. [17:40] **Kristina Handt:** You're getting a bid from the county as well. Okay. Then I also have—yeah, there's been a lot of noise about the agenda item last month, and I just want to clarify what that agenda item was. Yeah, that agenda item was about Brad Reifsteck, period. It was not a contest or a competition between WSB and LHB. I only got the information and research from Brad about costs and services—if they could do the same things WSB would do and if he would be retained as the city representative. Again, this was not a competition; it was not a contest. The question was put to you guys: do you want to retain Brad Reifsteck? You could have chosen that—perhaps didn't pass—you could have chosen to go out and get bids. You could—we already had the pricing from WSB. The question before you was: do you want to retain your current city engineer who can do the same things with another company, who negotiated a quarter of a million dollars in road improvements for new development, who is 95% through the Knollwood project which is going to be before you next April? That question was answered. It was a 3-2 vote. You didn't all agree, and that's fine, but the contract has been signed and Brad is in place. [19:11] **Kristina Handt:** Yeah, also there's been rumors—okay, guys, here we go—let's start with the election fund. Love this. It has been so cohesive and so nice with you guys, and again, you always don't agree, that's fine. There's questions and rumors out there about election costs and special election costs. It was noted and it's out there, people are being told and people are asking me about it, that a special election costs about $2,500. That is a standalone municipal election. In special or odd-numbered years, that cost is $2,568 per precinct along with all the other costs, which is about $5,200 for a regular election. You also have all the election judges, legal publications, additional polling equipment—that is based on actual costs. So you add all of that, and you also have the additional cost that you don't have in general elections of them taking care of the absentee polling, voting, postage, supply costs. Any absentee ballot that is mailed is $3 per ballot. Any absentee ballot that they go to the county and you put in the machine is $1.50. You have a lease cost of those absentee equipment boxes of $60, and then you have additional lease fees: a voting tabulation machine, assisted voting device, electronic roster. When you add all those costs up, it is much more than just a general election. So I just want to clear that up. Again, it's election time. The last thing I have for you guys is cleanup day has been set for May 4th, 9:00 to noon here with [undecipherable]. [21:15] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Saturday, May 4th? [21:18] **Kristina Handt:** First Saturday. [21:20] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** That's all I have. I'll be there. [21:23] **Council Member John Rog:** I'll be there. [21:25] **Kristina Handt:** It's being advertised in the city newsletter that yes, you guys will be there cooking hot dogs. You don't really have a choice; you've already committed me, huh? [21:31] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, just a couple of words. Yeah, election season's coming. Some people would like to get back on. How that would happen, I would have no idea, but we start to get speeches and fact patterns where about half the facts are given, maybe a third if we're lucky, and then you have to do the research to figure out what the rest of the story is, right? And then you get the rest of the story and the numbers I saw were closer to $15,000—a little less than I thought, but not $2,500. And of course, all this stuff will be brought out in the end; it'll all come forward. That's what I specialize in. I love that stuff. That's why I like elections; they're so much fun. I do, I do, especially up at the table on TV is where I like elections. Okay, that's enough of that. Now gentlemen, John, if I'm not mistaken, you read our community calendar last time, but you get—Tom, hang on a second. Reports. Hang on a second, buddy. Hang on a second, buddy. Yeah, I started. Go ahead. [22:45] **Council Member John Rog:** Well, I was going to bring up what I brought up last time about a potential event. So I talked about that. I’ve been speaking to the owner of the Gast Haus. Okay, he is very interested in working with us. He is doing a lot of background things. I guess he sold the land that was across the street where we used to park, oh yeah, but he's talking to them because they're on vacation. So he's working a lot of things and giving us a good price on food and everything. So there are some things that were in place, but at least he has a date that is open for us. [23:40] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** And if that does not work out, John, I'll tell you I'd be willing to support anything that gets people together down here, whether it is after cleanup day, a picnic, potluck down here with kids playing ball, or just coming down here for a meet and greet. The other thing I was thinking—I had always planned to put my nose to the grindstone and do some sort of a farmers market down here. The other thing you could perhaps do here is a tack swap—a lot of horses in this town, people might want to sell tack, people might want to do things like that. And it's really concentrated here, you know, to the benefit of our residents. So I'm just throwing those out there for you to think of if some of this stuff doesn't work out. I would support any and all of that. So, yeah, certainly there. Anything else, gentlemen? [24:15] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Can we just talk about a couple more questions with John? So is the current owner of Gast Haus planning on doing all the work? He just wants to know if we'd be willing to participate, because I think it's a lot of work, more than I was probably thinking initially. Is he willing to take all that on, and what kind of partnership is he looking for from the city? [24:36] **Council Member John Rog:** Well, I mean, I think you know, if we were trying to figure out the number of people, and he looked at the old things and it was about 250 people. I don't think we're going to have that many, but it's about headcount and food. He kept open the first Saturday in September for us. But we just got—I have a lot of details, but I don't know if I should share them right now or we can talk about them later. But he's very interested. He wants to advertise, he's going to do all that, supply the people, everything, just, you know, a little bit hopefully to cover the food. But yeah, he's doing a lot of work. [25:20] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** All right, sounds like you got people working on your behalf. I like it. And that's a good opportunity for new owners as well, obviously. So it's a win-win there. We want to keep businesses in Grant. Anything else? Jeff, Bob, Tom? [25:27] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, well, you know, couple things. Public comment and what Kim said. I'd like to thank Kim for clearing up the whole issue with the engineer. That, you know, it wasn't about going out for bids or going with the current engineering firm we had; it was decided—wasn't by the city council—but it was decided by her or somebody else that that's not what we were going to do and the city council had no input on that. And that's what it was. So I want to thank Kim for saying that because now that does answer a lot of questions I had. And I did talk to the [WSB] engineer for public comment, and they were stonewalled and weren't allowed a transition meeting or anything. They were not, and you know that because he called you too after I told him to call you because I didn't know what was going on. So that is true. And so apparently these decisions are being made that don't involve the city council, and I'm not happy about it sitting up here 20-some years. [26:40] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, well, yep. In your 20 years, let me just rebut that a little bit. First of all, he wasn't allowed? I had two conversations with him. He never asked. He's my floor right now. Before my floor, weeks before my floor, never asked, never proposed anyone else other than a beginning engineer who had never been a city engineer. We've been subjected to that before in your 20 years. We trained how many of them? Three of them we trained. And so we got people that stayed. It was a nightmare, and you know it. I'm not quite sure where your loyalties are lying here, with WSB or the city getting an engineer that's been here for years and years. So where are your loyalties? [27:15] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Procedure! Procedure. [27:18] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, procedure. You have the opportunity to vote on the last packet. Did you or did you not vote on the engineer? You didn't have to keep Brad Reifsteck, and in fact, you voted not to. How did you want that written? You had it sitting at your house where you're reading it for a week. You had a packet. You had a packet. You read it for a week and then you came— [27:35] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** I didn't have to read it for a week; I had no information! Then I find out that—where's the numbers? There were no numbers in the packet. [27:41] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Sometimes I get this, Ben. I get something thrown on the desk at the last minute. Yeah, a letter from residents. I don't care. Oh yeah, what? Totally, gentlemen. Totally. This—let me make this a lesson. When you get your packet, you have it for seven days. If you have questions about your packet, you don't understand something—she's there almost full-time. My phone number gets answered all the time. Instead of coming to the table going, "Well, I don't understand this, nobody told me this, why don't I get this?" That reminds me of the two people I used to have here. That's exactly what they would do until they were chased off. They wouldn't read the packet, they'd come here and they'd get upset that it wasn't put the way they wanted. You didn't do the research, you didn't— [28:40] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** No, my—I didn't need to do any research! We had something from Kim suggesting with Brad. I had nothing. It was—well, he was told there was not going to be a vote on it that night and there was. I'll talk to who was told that, who was— [28:56] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Yeah, he's making stuff up. [28:58] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** There's an email! Look at the email! [29:00] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** No, I'm going to talk to the public right now. If you get voted to be up here, you get these packets about a week in advance. Has nothing to do with that. It's your job as a councilman to read through it and not come up here going, "Well, it's got nothing to do with it, I don't understand, I don't understand." You do the research before you get here. If you have questions, she's there, I'm here. You can ask a question anytime you like. This is not exactly how this should work. [29:14] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** No, it isn't, you're right! This complaining that someone didn't do their work, didn't do their work... get the information to the city council so we can make a vote! No, that's what happened. [29:25] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** No, you're getting worked. [29:28] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** That's what happened! You know it's what happened. So just tell me this then: why—no, it isn't what happened. [29:35] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Well, we're going to start publishing this stuff. [29:38] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** You guys should! [29:40] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** And we're going to chop this kind of down to—because that stuff's not going to be allowed to stand. You yelling—you yelling doesn't change anything. [29:45] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Neither does your yelling! [29:47] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** No, I'm not yelling. I'm saying you should have done your research. [29:50] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Oh, I'm supposed to prepare the packet for myself? I didn't have a copy of Brad's numbers. Kim had a copy of Brad's numbers first. I didn't have a copy. I was told— [29:59] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** You were given a copy. [30:01] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** I don't have a copy! Hey, Kim, what was in the packet last month? Were there any numbers in there from the new firm? [30:08] **Kristina Handt:** No. [30:09] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Don't remember? That's what I'm saying! That's all I asked for last time. [30:15] **Kristina Handt:** Mayor and council members, it was noted in the packet that the costs were lower. And I apologize— [30:25] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** You wouldn't take my word? Why wouldn't you take my word for that? [30:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Excuse me! Because we're council members, that's our job! That's not your job. You did make a decision. I didn't. I tried to stop it and delay it when I bring this next for these aprons and stuff, yeah, contract—and you could have called me and asked me to get the pricing. [30:46] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Well, that's what's incredible. He's yelling at you because he didn't have the pricing in his packet. The packet that he had in his hand for a week. [30:53] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** No, no, no, no, that's not even it! You're just not getting it, Jeff. And no, the other company was stonewalled too. They weren't allowed to even submit anything. [31:00] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Okay, well, that is not true. Okay, we got an email. There's an email. So why don't you forward it? Send an email, forward it to the clerk. She has it. And then she'll forward it. Well, then let's get it forwarded. There you go, that's all I'm asking so we can take a look at that. All right. Okay, and then we'll stick to that process. [31:20] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** I didn't care if Brad was the engineer, that was not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the process! You can't be up here—I've been sitting here 20-some years to have somebody else making decisions for the council, and I don't know who that is or what that is. That doesn't even make any sense. [31:32] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Well, Kim just—you have the right to vote. No, no, I did vote, but I didn't—Kim just said no. No, listen, listen to what I'm going to say. Kim just summed it up. That's what was in the packet. To keep Brad. WSB wasn't in the packet, was not an option. She just said that! That's what you just said. You summed it up. [32:05] **Kristina Handt:** Did I? Well, watch the minutes. That's what you said. [32:10] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** I'm just saying—he's just—what he's doing is he's finding this tiny little... no, no, I'm explaining because that's what happened. And that is what happened. Yep, it is. [32:15] **Kristina Handt:** So all—anyway, it doesn't matter. Again, Kim said, "Hey, it's contract signed, it's over with." So staff made a recommendation to go with a new company, but that was entirely a council decision. [32:18] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, but we didn't have a choice on what we voted for! That's what you just said. Yeah, you just said that. [32:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** It's okay, it's okay. Watch the tape. Yeah, like I said to the public, it's our responsibility to do the research. He just told the clerk that he doesn't trust your numbers. [32:37] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** He should have found out what—I can't do my research if I don't have the numbers! [32:39] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Go ahead, Jeff, your turn. Well, I—I mean, I—Ben, I understand your point. But when, like for me, when I looked at the information, I looked at it like we got a choice to keep Brad or not. And if I would have, you know, thought that well, Brad wasn't doing a good job or whatever, then I would have probably said I would have been in your camp like, "Okay, let's get more information, other alternatives." But for me, I thought, "Okay, I want to keep Brad," and I stated my reasons why. [33:10] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** No, I—that's fine for you. [33:15] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Yeah, so I guess, I mean, you voted no. Yep. And if everyone else or the majority would have voted no, then it would have—we would have, you know, got the other bid or, you know, would have been forced to take a next step. [33:30] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** And if we had all the information and Brad was the engineer, I wouldn't even care. That's not—there was no other information required on service contracts, just so that everyone knows. Service contracts are not required to go out for bid normally. You decide whether or not the person doing the job is someone that you want to retain, right? So Brad had been with us for years, he knows the city intimately, he's done most of our major road projects. He just negotiated the approximately $250,000 in road improvements on the new development. He's also in the middle of somewhat of a contentious road project. So again, services are very different. If you look at the state [statute], I believe it lays out the differences between service contracts and capital contracts, so construction materials, that type of thing. With service contracts, you're really voting on the person because that's who you're hiring. The firm itself in this case didn't matter because our engineer, our longtime engineer Brad, was moving somewhere else. The costs were lower. It was a pretty simple thing. Mr. Cornett seems to feel that that decision was made for him, even though he voted, I voted, the entire council voted. [34:50] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Tom, we have a choice. Tom, what? [34:52] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** It's a service contract. You always have a choice. You don't have to go—he just said the lowest price isn't always the best was said up here tonight again. Okay, well, I'm not using that analogy. I'm not going to get through to you, bud. [34:55] **Council Member John Rog:** No, you're not. No, not going to get through to you. So any other comments? Yeah, go ahead. I kind of—Ben, I disagree with you in the sense that if we feel as a council, if everyone feels like a decision isn't being made by us, we can vote. So if the rest of the council sided with you and felt like, "Okay, we're not being able to make this decision," we could have shut it down with a 3-to-5 vote and said, "No, we want more information regards... go out to bid or whatever." That's the way it works. So I think we did make a decision at that point. [35:35] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** But somebody had stepped up to the podium, said WSB, they didn't get a chance! They wanted to and they didn't get a chance. That's true. [35:45] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** So why didn't they tell me that on my two phone calls when I talked to Brad? Brad—he's been trying for weeks to schedule something with Kim, so you tell me. [35:55] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Yeah, that's what I was told! [36:00] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Well, I'm surprised he never said anything to me. It's just really weird that he—well, he doesn't want to get everybody mad at him. I mean, they're hoping to come back. He's a Grant resident, he's a son of a former mayor, right? And that's important right there. No, it isn't! But it's—well, we see, and we don't have any respect for that, Jeff. And your condescending tone. We don't have any respect for WSB who was—who’d been with us forever? I have no idea who the team Brad's going to be working with, who they are, because Brad is not—Brad's the figurehead. The firm does the work. Brad's the figure... some great negotiator, I think somebody else could have done that too. But it's fine. In the real scheme of things, Brad is now our engineer, that's fine. It's the whole other part of that that is disgusting, and I've never seen anything like that sitting up here 20 years, and that's working with Larry and Lauren. So I don't like it. I think it's horrible and I'll be done now because obviously nothing's going to change and Brad's our engineer, and I respect him as that because he was voted in by the council. That's how it's supposed to work, but how it happened was terrible. [36:57] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** There's nothing wrong with it. He's wrong. All right, let's go ahead. Tell me that. Let's go ahead. Yep, you're wrong. You say we're wrong? Well, you're wrong. So, and we can talk about that off-screen if you'd like to, Ben, and maybe I can explain it to you without you—I'm sure I need some more explaining, but I don't think so. I think I have it down pretty good. Up to you. You have your opinion, the council voted, and thank you for expressing that. We appreciate that. And democracy is democracy, and you lost anyway. Vote to adjourn? Or should I read the—oh yeah, you, John, or whoever. [37:42] **Council Member John Rog:** Presidential nomination primary election, Woodbury Lutheran Church, Oak Hill Campus, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Mahtomedi Public Schools board meeting, Thursday, March 14th and March 28th, Mahtomedi District Education Center at 7:00 p.m. Stillwater Public Schools board meeting, Thursday, March 14th, Stillwater City Hall at 7:00 p.m. And Washington County Commissioners meeting, Tuesdays at the Government Center at 9:00 a.m. [38:20] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** All right, thanks John. Now you can make the motion to adjourn. [38:22] **Council Member John Rog:** I will make a motion to adjourn. [38:24] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Do I have a second? [38:25] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Second. [38:26] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Cornett? [38:27] **Council Member Ben Cornett:** Aye. [38:28] **Council Member John Rog:** Aye. [38:29] **Council Member Greg Anderson:** Aye. [38:30] **Council Member Lindsay Cremona:** Aye. [38:31] **Mayor Jeff Giefer:** Mayor votes Aye. Tell me when we're done, Kim. For real.