good afternoon everybody Welcome to the March 13 2024 city of Mesa planning and zoning board meeting we'll begin with a roll call I am chair SS Vice pitcher Vice chair pitcher here board member Crockett here board member Peterson here board member Montes is excused this evening board member blakeman here board member Carpenter here and as part of the agenda for today we have a consent agenda it'll be read into the record and acted on in one motion um each of these items will not be discussed individually and we are going to have board member Peterson read our uh agenda today thank you so the items uh removed from the consent agenda are items 3A and items 4B 3A being America First Credit Union 4B being the farmhouses at 1902 North Gilbert the remaining items on are uh no other blue cards for the remaining items correct okay the items on the consent agenda are pz or or item 2A minutes from the February 28th 2024 planning zoning meeting and then take action on the following zoning cases item 3B Z1 23- 00897 5449 South Power Road within the 5400 Block of South Power Road located south of Ray Road on the east side of Power Road site plan review this request will allow for a c coffee shop with a drive-through facility and a minor automobile repair facility recommendation is approval with conditions and make a recommendation to the city council on the following zoning cases item 4 a z 23-00 378 montouris within the 3300 block of North alas School Road located south of University Drive and east of amas school road reson from Office commercial to limited commercial with a bonus intensity Zone overlay site plan review and Council use permit this request will allow for a mixed use development recommendation is approval with conditions uh take action on the following preliminary plots item 5 a Z1 23- 0329 office spec Suites within the 6400 block of East McDow Road located west of Power Road on the north side of McDow Road preliminary plat recommendation is approval with conditions item 5B 01 23- 01037 West Main Station village within the 1300 to 1400 blocks of West Main Street and within the 0 to 100 block of North Rogers located west of alasca on the north side of Main Street recommendation is approve review of a perim PL and recommendation is approval with conditions and that concludes the consent agenda appreciate it thank you very much so with that I'll move our wait do we have to do the approval and then we can do his case yes the motion well Iain the motion for approving the consent agenda is read I would uh move that we approve the consent agenda as it has been read by board member Peterson so and I'll second that motion second all in favor please vote and unanimous that approves appreciate everybody on that one so then we will Peterson are you good talking through the next one for 3A so where do you want me to do that I I get it item 3A Z 23- 857 America First Credit Union within the 4,300 we need to hold on hold on TR we actually need to go through it he needs to step away for this one correct you want me to step away or you board member pitcher you don't have to physically leave but you um please declare the conflict on the record I've got a I've got a conflict on this one yeah because I I represent the the applicant so I I will not vote thank you please motion that one we don't need a presentation so we can go I could take a motion for item three correct you would open up public hearing open up the public hearing okay open up a public hearing for this one and see if there's any comments I'm not seeing any comments so we close the public hearing for that one and then I will see if there's anything from the board for discussion on that one move to approve item 3 a0 23- 857 America First Credit Union within the 4,300 block of East Baseline Road and the 1900 block of South Greenfield Road located north of Baseline Road on the west side of Greenfield Road major site plan modification this request will allow for the development of a financial institution with a drive up ATMs in The Limited commercial zoning District recommendation is approval with conditions I'll second the motion thank you and then all in favor we can get it I think you can vote so I voted but it's not showing me a vice chair picture is there a button to abstain there you go he's hitting it's not doing anything we the same problem didn't try again there okay so with a vote of five y and Vice chair pitcher abstaining that passes as well all right I think we're good there so yep all right now we're going to move on to uh the next one so we'll turn the time over for presentation on item 4 B welcome Josh thank you chair and members for the board uh this is for Z 23- z559 I'll known as the farmhous is at 1902 North Gilbert Road uh this request is specifically for a single residence rezone from single residence 43 to multiple residence 2 with the bodus intensity Zone uh as part as this there's also site plan review to allow for multiple residence development is located on the west side of North Gilbert Road just south of East uh melp Road uh per the general plan designation on this site is neighborhood which is intended to provide safe places for people to live and a variety of housing options as well as uh rm2 in this district is a secondary zoning District while the multiple residents is a primary use in the general plan designation of neighborhood as part of this the rezoning is from single residence 43 with his existing uh a deteriorated single residence on the southern lot of the two uh from that to multiple residents to with the bonus intensity Zone and all the allowed use of multiple residents is allowed within the rm2 here's the existing photo look West from Alma School you can see that existing single residence there sorry that is uh Gilbert Road uh and here is the accesses will be located on Gilbert Road uh just to clarify the northern uh egress point is purely exit only while the southern is the entrance for the site uh and it's 26 units totally proposed as part of this current uh Proposal with every unit being a two-story unit and two car garages for each unit with 10 additional parking spots on site for guest parking for a total of 62 parking spots proposed uh here's the proposed landscape plan uh one of the comments that did come out of the design review board is that the applicant should look at a faster growing tree more Evergreen instead of the oak that is proposed uh staff is still working with the applicant on those changes per the design review board recommendations here are the proposed elevations um here you can get a good idea of the proposed uh design uh it was intended to be more of a farmhouse style that was intended to blend more in with the surrounding neighborhood because originally the applicant did propose a more modern look uh for the proposed architecture on this site as part of the bonus intensity Zone the uh applicant is requesting these following deviations uh the front and side and Street side setback for the six Lane arterial for Gilbert Road is typically 30 ft the appc is requesting a 20ft setback this specifically is for those location of the amenities located on the front portion of the site uh design review board did uh appreciate that location uh they didn't have any concerns with it how it was proposed um however because that ex Zeebo uh that does require that setback for that 20 ft to be reduced as well as the interior and side rear for three or more units on a singular lot uh this is being request specifically for that Northern uh setback next to the Tutor Time because of that uh Solid Waste enclosure as well as the parking spots themselves because where they've been located there's only a 1ot separation on that Northern property line also as part of that uh there's a reduction in the minimum landscape yards consistent with those two requests for 20 ft along the front and Street facing side of Gilbert Road and the interior side for the northern side for that 1ot reduction for that Northern property line as well as the minimum building separation typically um per the zoning code a two-story building on one site would require 30 foot separation as part of this request the applicant is seeking 9 foot as well as one of the comments that came out of the citizen participation process was concerned about the screening and the overall impacts that the proposed project might have on the neighboring properties to the West the neighbors um so as part of that the applicant is proposing an 8-ft wall to increase that screening along the western and southern and Northern property lines for that screen wall which typically only six is allowed in the multiple residents districts of the MZ uh as I'm sure you're aware the uh citizen participation process on the site occurred for notifying Property Owners within the Thousand ft as well as HOAs and registered neighborhoods within the area staff has received a number of emails concerned about specifically the density as well as the height and traffic impacts of the proposed project the applicant has included all their correspondents as part of their citizen participation report staff finds that the overall project complies with the 2040 Mesa General plan as well as the requirements of chapter 21 for a b and then chapter 69 of the MZ for a site plan review staff recommends approval conditions happy to answer any questions appreciate it Josh questions from the board for Josh surey hi Josh thank you for that presentation uh just for some information on your general plan recommendation the uh in the presentation was rm2 is a secondary zoning District uh for the general plan what what do that just explain briefly what that means as far as the compliance with General plan thank you chair board member Peterson so in general the general plan uh does specify percentages of the primary zoning districts versus secondary zoning districts as part of our analysis we verified that uh significant portions of the surrounding area are RS6 and rs 43 which does meet the percentages of that 70% of that primary zoning District this is as part of that 30% within the overall area that would allow for that secondary zoning District which rm2 is a part of that designation okay gotcha and then one other question on the the zoning with the uh bonus intensity Zone what does staff usually look for as criteria for for applying a bonus intensity Zone to a to a site yes chair board member Peterson so as part of a review for a bonus intensity Zone this is look similarly as what would be for a planned area development we are looking for higher quality as well as uh kind of looking to improve the quality of development and as part of this uh staff feels that the proposal consistent with comments that we've received throughout the process does meet that and is consistent with our overall review for BS okay thank you go ahead and Josh if I could just follow up on that comment and thank you for the presentation but what what specifically in this project can you point to that supports the B sure so thank you uh chair and board member Crockett so this specifically there are enhanced amenities that typically would not be seen on a site this small um as part of this the applicant has included a pool as well as a barbecue amenity as well as a playground uh it is located on that Northeastern corner of or sorry Northwestern corner of the site as well as the overall uh quality of the site amenities and design of the buildings itself okay and then is this a market rate development as planned uh at this time uh chair and board member Crockett it is my understanding that uh this is for rental properties I'm not sure at exactly the rate I'll let the applicant respond to that you good any other questions you got one hey Josh uh question on the Ingress egress I know the northern one it says on the plans it's for service and emergency vehicles but in your presentation I almost heard that maybe that be egress for everybody is that correct so uh chair and board member Carpenter my understanding this was a discussion throughout the process between Transportation as well as the applicant uh there is concerns about that existing median and people making that U-turn there so uh at this time I believe it is just for service Vehicles that' be those trash enclosures any kind of emergency vehicles that would be required to that I believe the applicant has made it clear that this will not be for uh public use or anything within the neighbors as part of that because of that concern with the U-turn okay thank you you good anything on anybody else hi Josh um on the the West Side trees how big are those trees are they you know are they going to be um significant mature trees or are they going to be little spindly trees so uh thank you chair and board member it looks like sorry just thank you Josh um it's Evan Balmer principal planner with development services just to clarify this did go to design review board U we are working through um some changes one being the landscape it was suggested that we get a a faster growing tree um to help screen that so we are are working with the applicant to make that change to a species that it's going to be a little bit Fuller grow a little bit faster to provide some better screening for the the neighbors so have um are you guys also working through the box SI all that as well correct yeah um chair and board members and just to confirm I'm looking at the landscape plan but those trees are composed of both 24 in and 36 in box good all right I think you're good on that part thanks Josh so would be able to invite the applicant up as well for presentation so as Josh there we go let me get this out of the [Applause] way chairman and members of the board my name is Tim Bole I work just over here on 114 uh West Main in the expansive Mesa um what is it it's a shared workspace and I also live um in 450 North Emerson in Mesa as well um I'm excited to present to you the farm Homes at 1902 North Gilbert today Project we've been working on for quite some time um and uh we'll get into it um I think you know about the location this is uh just explaining the the site and showing what's uh what's happening there if we zoom out a little bit you can see the the zoning in the area um you have a lot of Light commercial a lot of commercial in this area and then you have uh the Allen which is a similar sized project similar density density project that we did on the calps a couple years back and then our project is right in here um we like to uh as we like to do these projects we like to see a a buffer between um commercial and residential spaces and so we see multif family as a really good buffer as you're switching from something that's louder and and has more parking use like that to something quieter like a neighborhood um hence we have the we feel like this is a really good blend going from these commercial lots to the residential lots to the South um there were many concerns so as I'm presenting this I'll also be bringing up some a lot of concerns there was a lot of neighborhood feedback we had several meetings with the neighbors and I'll be kind of going through that um one of the big concerns was an increase in traffic um this gives you an idea of what the traffic is along Gilbert it's a little hard to see oops I don't think I can zoom in there 24,300 daily trips um our Traffic Engineers at Y2K engineering said that we would be creating with 26 homes 12 to 13 peak hour trips those are the rush hour times um and overall we' be increasing the amount of traffic um 0.05% of the um 24,300 daily trips um give you another little view of the site as we come in this would be Gilbert Road right here and the entrance let me confirm that north entrance is only for um Solid Waste vehicles and emergency vehicles there's the uh residents will be using this gate only to get in and out um and then the uh there was a question about the market rate uh yes there will be no financing no Federal Financing no government financing on this it's all market rate um a little bit more about the layout there's a uh gate down here we have five parking spaces here there was a lot of concern about the parking about there being adequate parking the neighbors were concerned that there would be overflow parking spilling into their neighborhood if there wasn't adequate parking um each of the units is a twocc car garage unit and we've got five parking spaces here on the North and five parking spaces here on the south the Mesa zoning code requires 2.1 parking spaces per unit um and we've gone with the 10 additional parking spaces it's it's many more than are required for the zoning code when we're doing a project and it's on a Major Street like Gilbert where there's no parking right off the side we try to fit in as much additional parking as possible because we don't want people wandering around um from other lots to to these Lots as well the tree question our landscape architect Don Campbell um well established landscape architect he did several of the Desert Botanical Gardens and the Japanese friendship Garden in in Phoenix he's recommending a um aaia MGA right here um it has a quicker growth speed it has a fuller canopy um another concern that they had was uh the oak trees that we had recommended would leave their Le lose their leaves during the winter the mulga uh keeps its leaves uh year round and so that was his recommendation to um help with the blocking the views between the the two lots this project is just down the street from the Allen which is around the corner um a very modern project that we did that was a a very successful project when it was built um when we first designed the the project it was a very modern project Tak building on some of the excitement that the island had built um by being a modern project in a a town like Mesa that's not known for its modern projects um after advice from the uh residents and a phone call from council member Freeman we changed to look to be a much more traditional style home um much more of a a modern Farmhouse look we looked at some of the original homes in Mesa these are down near the the Mesa Temple and we we took some design inspiration from those and we added those to our our design of this project here's what the internal looks like these are uh three-bedroom two and a half bath two-car garage units they have a large Master Suite these are intended to be luxury units what we like to say is if you go to a a luxury multif family project in Scottsdale like Optima or one of these you'll pull into a parking garage you'll wander around in the parking garage holding your kids's hand while cars drive by and you're in a little concrete bunker um we feel that when you can pull into your own garage and take your groceries right in it's far more luxury than even these upscale um developments in uh in Scottsdale and other places and so we we try to bridge the missing middle Mesa has a lot of single family homes and it has a lot of small apartments and we're trying to to create a place in the middle of that this uh inspiration came from when I first moved back from uh New York City we were looking at developments in the area and there was there was nothing small there was nothing in between and then as as our kids grew up my kids now I have two of them that should be about ready to buy a house and there's nothing available to them right now and so we're trying to create more uh developments like this that create starter homes for our kids and for the other kids in Mesa we're also finding on similar developments like this one um they are a sought-after place to retire where you don't have to mow your lawn anymore anything like that and that helps people move out of their existing homes into something close by and then the next Generation can take these larger homes that have been family homes this is uh looking across the street what you typically see in developments in Mesa um along arterials you see large back uh backyard wall six to usually six feet tall we um we like to to develop something that is more front-facing more Street facing more interesting to look at as you drive by not just a sunp block wall or a CMU wall with a couple of uh desert plants in front of it and a large Barren area we try to make something that looks like homes something that works like homes something that has Lush landscape and people moving about um hence we put the uh amenity space the pool and the barbecue area in the front that also creates a sense of arrival as you first drive in to the gate that's right over here you see the pool you see the barbecue area you get a sense that you're coming home this would be the the kiosk where you would you would uh push the button to come through the gate which is right here this is the barbecue area in the pool right off in here we're always working on a a modern sense of arrival something that uh um we feel is is an essential part of creating a quality project this would be walking between the units towards the swimming pool and this is a mockup of the playground that we would have on the northwest side um back to the landscape and the um trees I know there was a lot of concern about being able to see out the the windows on the West Side into the yards that are there um originally they there were three story units uh mixed in with the two story units there was a very negative reaction to that from the neighborhood and so we've removed all the three story units and made them all two story units there's still a concern about the height of the windows um you can see in this exhibit we've mapped out where the windows are the expected Heights of the trees the 8ot wall is it shown up a little bit tiny the sight lines are coming through here and the concept being that the trees would be designed in such a way grown planted at such a size that they would be blocking views from the windows of those units to the back um these two-story units are set back 30 ft the standard setback for two-story uh two-story building if a house was built there it could have the same windows in the same location and then these are a couple of renderings simplified renderings but this is what the trees would look like um from the back these would be the houses that are on the neighborhood side so we have the 8ot wall here and then we have the trees that are blocking the views there was concern about the uh property values and the effect that that have we have the same concern our goal is to make MAA Mesa a better city um so we looked at a lot of developments of these similar sorts of units both in our neighborhood and in other parts of the city um we did not see any negative effect of the values this is the Allen that's right here so this development's a little over in this area um as we look around we don't see an uh in any decrease or any major decrease of property values as you approach that one this is the one um actually you saw this in the study session earlier where they're uh changing the design of these along Main Street um these are the units that inspired all of our our two-story garage units um we also did not see a negative effect on the prices of any of the houses that are closer to that um another development that uses a similar design again we didn't see any change in the house values in the relative area um sorry this is going to show up really small uh crime is also another concern that people typically have when multif family units come in because these are gated luxury units um we don't expect to have similar rise in crime um I can give this to you in a better form so you can read it I thought it would be I'd be able to zoom on the page but we don't see a negative uh we don't see an increase of crime this is based around the Allen which was built in 2018 and this is looking at crime statistics from 2014 all the way up till 2023 and the crime stays about the same the whole time there's a slight uptick during covid as everyone knows but it went back down after that happened all right uh that's my presentation are there any other questions from uh board all right any questions from the board uh question about the people leaving the the farmhouses and heading north is there a concern or did the traffic engineer review that in context of people leaving the K Quan's parking lot and heading south so there's going to be that Middle Lane there but it's kind of short between where the the median ends yeah so there's not like a yeah so the the traffic rules um I believe it's 125 ft of Separation they want between um uh uh outgoing streets and we are it's a little hard to see there but we have a circle that's drawn I think it's right about here we're we're short of the 125 ft so traffic isn't concerned about that okay thank you you have so Tim um what so what is going to become of the existing wall That's along Gilbert Road now the kind of the pink tall wall there is that going to come down because the renderings you showed you see the front of the the homes in there so does that Wall come down and and get replaced with like RW iron or what how do you envision that along Gilbert Road it does yeah if I can find the larger rendering uh that wall comes down and we have a view fence that sees there so these houses the front doors and the slider doors all open onto Gilbert Road so you can see in and you can see the the the product like that we don't we don't want to hide everything behind the walls we want it to be attractive from the street okay and and question are you envisioning that these units would be for sale or for rent at this time um you're never required to say which one the economics currently show that for sale is vastly better than for rent and again since I'm trying to develop projects that my children can live in or I could retire in the goal for these is always to make them for sale are they platted um they will be individually platted at some point so they'll they'll start to rent probably in the future yeah we always do that Poss afterward i' I've just got one question one of the pictures that you had what's the separation between the back buildings it showed the houses keep going keep going um I just I just wondered what the separation is between the house right there on your development and there's it looks like there's two or three houses that back these that are right up here oh let's see right keep going there you go so you've got that house right there you've got this house right here what's the the separation between the house and the what would in essence be the house that that you're building we might not have the dimension if I remember correctly CU we modeled it I think that house is somewhere between 7 and 10 feet from the wall and then our units are 30t on our side so probably between 37 and 40t for this house and then you see that the units start to curve away till they hit about 50 ft away on this side so this house I would I would guess is also between 7 and 10t and then it's probably 40ish 42 perhaps from there so have 55 plus the 10 and then 33 plus okay thank you you're welcome Tim on the you mentioned on the west and north and south sides that it will be an 8ot wall that that's a newly constructed 8ft wall that will be on those three sides yeah the existing wall is 6 feet and you have to put in a new footing if you go to an 8ot wall so it'll be a brand new reild okay thank you and then the um what is the height of these uh buildings both to the the roof and then to the top of the parit maybe those two yeah um the roof itself is about 23 feet high okay and the parit is another 3et above that okay about 25 ft and then I think the peaks of the uh the triangle shapes are somewhere around 28 or 29 start with these okay all right thank you Jamie you got anything I don't no good je good all right I think we're good thank you okay thank you board members all right so now we can open this up for uh the public meeting sorry I'm making myself organized here unless we have anything else you coming up to present again nope Josh all right so um I'll start um we have quite a number number of cards so um I'm going to start with the ones that do not wish to speak and I'll just uh kind of put their positions out there um for everybody else to speak obviously everybody gets three minutes um I will say if if you hear comments that you're going to say repeated if you'd like to be out of here a little sooner than later I would say you can come up and you can say I agree with a lot of that but um obviously you guys get your three minutes we're not going to cut you off but we will be here for quite some time if we don't get through all these so with that being said um I'll begin with uh those of you who decided not to wish to speak and if you change your mind by the way let me know but uh these are those I have said and I also apologize up front if I get names really bad I'm I'm sorry I'm not the sharpest tool in the showed so uh Robin Kleinman is yeah Robin Kleinman uh 186 East Juniper Circle um is opposed to this and does not wish to speak we're good there Lisa pavic and again I'm sorry if I get that bad 1612 uh East Indigo is also opposed to this and does not wish to speak okay um Robert L Brooks uh 1832 North Gilbert Road um also opposed to this item is not wish to speak okay um Penny Harper I believe 180 5 East Jasmine Circle uh is also opposed and does not wish to speak okay uh Charles K Adair 1845 North Oracle is opposed and does not wish to speak don't L those and Robert Voit uh 1743 North Ridge Circle is also opposed and does not wish to speak oh and you have time that you want to give to Jeff parue is that correct all right of those don't lose them for me okay was there anybody else that wanted to also do for Jeff Pardue to speak no Jeff why don't you come on up here then and I'll uh find your card here so wouldn't you come up if you could please state your name your address and uh then we'll let you go I'm sorry I can't find your card but go ahead Jeff my name is Jeff Pardue I reside at 1914 East Juniper Circle uh Mesa Arizona 85203 I have been a resident of this neighborhood since 2010 I have watched it grow I watched our families grow when we moved in there were no kids for my kids to play with that has changed the streets are full of children in our neighborhood every day all day during the summer and during school school there are numerous concerns from the neighborhood um that uh we have some of those were mentioned today by the applicant some were in my opinion misconstrued by the applicant one of those being parking parking is a concern in that neighborhood only only providing 10 more uh during normal days of the week months but what about during the holidays where are those families guests going to park they're going to park in our neighborhood where our families Park where our kids play where they haven't seen cousins and they're excited and they run out into the street Jensen is a drag strip there are no speed bumps furthermore on Gilbert Road the proposed street that this sits on in at Jensen and is used as a passing Lane above 60 mph to get into traffic em merge back onto Gilbert there are three lanes the right one ends that is what butts up to this townhouse it is difficult for me traveling home from work at the end of the day without getting run over or pushed out of my own lane to turn into my neighborhood now I do not believe that the Y2K engineering traffic study was completed properly where we we did not see any signs there were no ropes or the rubber things going across the street where you measure traffic ever I do not believe that that happened I believe it is an opinion of Y 2K engineering I would like to see the study the dates that it was conducted and for how long it was done and I and I I would highly ask or recommend that you also ask for the same in addition to the homes that are uh directly affected by the property um I I heard today two two times how big or how tall are the trees going to be put in and that was not answered I did not hear a footage of a tree being put into property I have not also heard the growth rate of those trees I heard different types of trees none of them have ever been decided on as far as we're concerned because they keep changing right so when we start talking about being able to view into our yards I do not have a house that sits directly upon that road ever they can't see into my yard from a two-story window directly into my yard and I have very strong concerns of my neighbors and their concerns uh for people being able to see or throw trash over the wall uh despite it being 8 foot I don't believe that the trees would be tall enough to block a view in 5 years um again for me that's my opinion but I haven't heard what kind of tree and I haven't been able to be able to do any kind of a study for that in regards to home values uh directly across the street caddy corner for me this week they had a cash buyer for that home that was declined after and I can provide the emails if you wish and the name and address of the owner after um but they have an email directly from a cash buyer saying that hey you know is it true that a townhouse or apartments are going up yes it is true they answered we declin they backed away so when you start talking about value I might not devalue it today but it's already stopping the sale of homes in my neighborhood my home is for sale I do not have a buyer yet I am very concerned about losing the value of my home there are 11 halfway houses in our neighborhood crime is rampant most times the cops won't come out because the the people have already left it is all over our Facebook neighborhood talking about how the police won't come out we have people coming into the neighborhood throwing Frozen water bottles at kids faces and is not okay it is not fair to them they do not have a safe place to play now and only crowding that area would make it worse we deserve a safe place for our children and our families to grow up just like they do I heard two times that he was asked if it was a property for Rend or to buy I didn't get a clear answer on that either I heard it for now it's proposed it would will be for rent and those people will not be living in that neighborhood for long term the um sorry I lost track the that's all I have I can't remember what else I was going to say thank you yes my name is Lane Morton I reside at 1931 East Jack around the circle I was actually the house highlighted by uh um Tim uh my home is that home that J butts up right to the fence and I have a side door and a back door that are approxim between 10 and 15 ft from that fence um and uh again the trees we talked about um I'm not sure they decided but uh I know that I think they're asking for a variance that they can put those trees a little bit closer to the fencing um I'm concerned about the spread of the trees I mean obviously the larger the tree the bigger the spread the higher it goes but also that means more of that bills on to the other side unless they're set back farther um I don't know if there is the an appropriate set back I mean I know there're zoned at 30 ft they're set back that far but for this type of a for this type of a um a complex and uh use uh as everyone stated before it's just not the right fit those residences were zoned I mean those two things Z own residential um both of those residences originally on those plots went into Decay they went to basically being torn down um those lots were put there for a reason for the homes to be built there um I don't think any of us want those lots to be sit there dormant and with nothing on them but this type of a project is not the place or at least in the way it stands fewer units you can still have multiple units in there on the on that acreage you could probably put two fourplexes or you know four homes in that acreage with a small little small little U-turn driveway or U-turn Street or a circle like I live on um so there are some things that we know will go in there and we're not opposed to that but we are opposed to the density the way they sit um and just uh the potential of not keeping with the Aesthetics and the intent of that neighborhood which is to have a single family unit home where you can raise your children where you can have a sense of comfort and Community um and as stated by Mr partu um like I said these units won't be for sale I mean that's what they're going to be start out as probably but they will be for for rent you will have additional people um I believe they're all three bedroom units um and what's going to happen is you will have renters there with three cars you have 26 units there's 10 Extra Spaces when you have three renters you're going to have three vehicles where's the third car sit those 10 spaces will get taken up very quickly by the extra tenants and then no one is able to park there except they park over at Quan's or in front of uh front of Ned's Crazy sub or possibly in Tutor Time on the off chance so there is going to be parking issues and if you're coming home with groceries and you've got a park over in Fry or not fries but right over there at uh um KTR or Quan you're going to be carrying your groceries across Gilbert Road to get into your place because there will might not be parking again we're not opposed to something happening to those lots but not this Unis in the way it stands in the current capacity so thank you very much thank [Applause] you Jamie Morton hi my name is Jamie martson 1931 East chck arounda Circle MCE Arizona 85233 I live with him um one of the things that my husband didn't mention is that the way our house sits on that lot in all of these render Rings our house is put up as just a block with no windows and no people and our the way our home sits and like he said there is two doors but there's also three windows and from where I stand at my kitchen window from my dining room table and my Liv I can see directly to Gilbert Road sometimes you can see the tops of cars going over that large fence that um Mr Crockett spoke of and there is um and you can see directly into the house that sits behind us now as it sits in fact for years I stared at a toilet that sat in that empty house you can see it clear as day which means that if there's people behind us they have that access to my home because of the way my home sits on that lot I have 10 children I have a pool I have six daughters and I feel like if I am a honest taxpaying person who pays my property taxes pays all the things obeys the law then the law and the Protections in the zoning then should protect me and the Privacy that happens in my home with my family we should be able to be inside of our home and not have anyone be privy to what goes on inside of my home through my windows I think the trees like they said are an issue no one has discussed exactly what that's going to look like and no one's in charge of Mother Nature so who knows how that's going to work out a taller fence line the way these are built sounds more three-story if you listen to the feet that they're speaking of and it no one can guarantee but also the root systems that these trees have if we're asking for a variance to lower to make that planting box smaller then we have a whole root system and that affects our fence line we already have a tree that sits on that lot that we've killed multiple times and that root system comes back and it comes right under our cool decking or not our cool decking but our patio pavers and lifts all of our pavers so is that what we're going to deal with in the future with a whole line of trees along the other side of that fence is that going to destroy our fence line over time um those are my major concerns along with the traffic going down Jensen there's a retention Basin on Jensen and on any given day our children are out there for hours kids are in and out and we all know the kids that are coming and we know to look people that are going to be leaving this to turn left those parents that come out of Tutor Time they come out of Tutor Time they flip a UI right there by Quan every single time so you're going to have the competition of the people trying to come out of quan flip the UI it's already competition to get across for us to get across three lanes of traffic to get in our neighborhood if we go to water or not nice or Star I don't go to Starbucks but Starbucks whatever else is over there KTR for our kids so I do believe that that traffic study was I'm with Mr Purdue as well not sure exactly if that went well but the concerns are safety for our children people being able to look directly into my home I think is absolutely atrocious and that should be taken into consideration people are actually living in these homes they're not the blocks seen on the screen thank you for your time thank you Jimmy Kevin Nelson hello I didn't think to make notes so I try to do it just now so I don't forget anything but uh Kevin Nelson um 1309 East Halifax uh 85203 I'm outside of the thousand foot Zone that they showed but I am in this neighborhood and I drive past here every single day um my concern is is just north of here is that is the 202 and there's a long stretch on the 202 I before and after Gilbert if you want to get off the freeway it's either Country Club almost four miles away or Val Vista so we have a lot of people that take that exit and what they what hasn't really been touched on is exactly at this property it goes from three lanes down to two and you have everybody coming off off the 202 and it's already a nightmare right there in that spot and there's also median there so anybody that's going to the Starbucks or Quan or anything they actually come up closer to that exit so that they can turn left out of there which is almost in line with this property so it's already a nightmare everybody like they were saying everybody's jockeying to get in and merge and all that stuff and add basically we're opposed to this because we think the zoning is correct single family is what it should be and we're not opposed to things being built like they said have you know it's an empty lot now we'd love to see more single home single family homes being built but this is just the wrong project it's going to be a nightmare um also the the my my parents have uh their neighbors have trees built along the fence it's not theirs it's it's the neighbors they have a pool and it's always a nightmare when they shed it's always clogging up their pool and there's nothing you can do about it and so all these neighbors if you look I noticed that all most of them have pools now they're going to have all that to deal with as well um the um and because of the three lanes down to two I know when I come out as water I or Starbucks I need to turn left to get into the neighborhood that way so I go up to that exit and I'm turning left going around the median it's already hard you add in 26 you know homes right there it's going to get harder so they're either it's either going to be very difficult or they're going to just say ah turn right and turn right on and go into the neighborhood and now you're going to basically increase massive traffic from this entire complex going through the neighborhood up to Harris and going out that way so again just just to repeat we just think it's zoned correctly as it is and we just plead that you don't change the zoning thank you thank [Applause] you Larry Nelson Larry Nelson 2309 East hail uh 85213 um a lot of things he just said uh it was mentioned that that he that there's a lot of commercial north of there and they were talking about putting it using this as a buffer there's a it's Zed for single family now putting multif family is a less of a buffer than what's there now that's one thing Uh Kevin hit on the traffic uh at that point it it is going from three lanes to two everybody's merging you're adding more traffic right at that spot so that's been touched I am a retired firefighter I spent 33 years as a firefighter with the city of Phoenix uh 15 of it driving fire trucks I'm looking at this for that at this plan and I know from my point of view it's a nightmare for a firefighter first off he's right there are going to be people parking on the street I've seen it all for 33 years I saw this similar developments where no parking no parking signs everywhere people still Park somebody comes to visit for the Night Comes to have dinner don't the parking spes are full they park on the street now you've come down to a single Lane that's a first off that's fire trucks are big in the case of emergency I have seen where we couldn't get access especially in a fire a single family uh a a single home fire is is called a two in one two l two engines One ladder might be able to fix that in there if you get a multi uh family dwelling an apartment it turns into a uh probably a first alarm you're looking at five engines and and two ladders look at that and tell me where you're going to put those how much access to the fire department have you're going to end up with a fire truck in there trying to handle whatever is happening and all the rest of them parked out on Gilbert and the firefighters walking in to help the ones that are there that don't have won't have enough equipment I also talked about that exit being only for for uh uh service Vehicles is it going to be gated is it going to be locked no that means the the the residents it's busy that way they're going to turn around and go out that way that it's there it's an exit it will be used so again more traffic in exactly the wrong spot uh what else come on uh so I think yeah I think it most of the points but basically I think fire department access having been there I've seen it and it it is a problem for a fire department I don't know how how you can how how you could adequately F fight a multif family fire or I've had a number of incidents in places like this where people were parked there was actually one where people were parked on both sides of the street it was a heart attack the person died we had to park out on the Main Street and walk through the complex to get to it because the cars parked on the street on a No Parking Street blocked all access to the fir TR that's a small Street very narrow anything that gets in the way is going to cause a problem thank you thank you Michael Richard Altin hi my name is Michael Richard olon I reside at 1930 East Juniper Circle in Mesa Arizona 85203 my uh property is at the far south west corner of this of this uh project um my I'm going to have to change up what I was going to say because everybody has already spoken about most of the things I want to talk about I am concerned about the traffic when I leave to go to work in in the beginning of the day I can't get out of there I'm sitting there waiting and waiting waiting for all the traffic to turn safely it's a dangerous Corner as it is right now adding that many vehicles is going to be ridiculous it's a as as you mentioned before it's a it's an artery coming off of that freeway it and to be honest comparing this place with the Allen couldn't be further from something they should uh compare that to every time I hear a comparison of the Allen it just it makes me crazy because the Allen's on a odd shaped triangular lot and so that fits the the uh definition of an infill this is not an infill property this is a property that can be just about anything can be built in there you could put a little little restaurant or something in there there's been other projects that were on the table but then they now they want to go in and congest it with 26 or 27 units so my concern is the gentleman over here mentioned that it is now on the books as rentals so and there's and every time you ask the gentleman uh a question he talks around it and he says well it's proposed that we're going to do that but as something for sale but right now it's not so you got three bedroom uh Apartments basically here and and and nobody can afford a home these days and so they're going to go in and rent this place but I don't know if you've noticed that you got people joining together to rent uh a place and so now you've got three bedroom apartments you're going to get young people three of them at least and they're each going to have a car so that's three cars pretty much per unit and and uh so that's going to be the crowd too and I don't know if you noticed that they asked for a setback for the distance between the garages so there's a even a small uh area for that that's not not within code either so they're asking for so many variances for this small little area of land I'm also concerned with the fact that they took off the label of the dog park that is right outside of my bedroom window they took the label off of it but yet still sits to dog park this there you've got 27 units how many dogs is that going to be out there barking outside of my bedroom window and I'm that's just for me personally you know so and I do work in the healthc care field and and I am on call constantly and I do need my sleep there's enough dogs barking in the neighborhood as it is I I really don't appreciate that being right outside of my window so to be honest with you I I have kids they drive I'm worried about them getting an accident and to be honest with you if something happened detrimental happen to them it would be devastating and and adding more fuel to a fire is basically what we have with that with the traffic that we I know a lot of people mentioned I have a lot of other things I'd like to say but I think my time is up but I think you see where we're go where all of us are going here this is not a not a good infill it's not thank you appreciate your time Mr Al Tyler Wright again Tyler Wright chairman members of the board it's been a few years since I've stood before a Planning and Zoning Board I I can't say I miss it um listening to staff and the applicant uh with their polished presentations and neighbors who suddenly become experts in property values and traffic patterns and crime it's pretty good theater that I enjoyed for many years um I had decided I was going to stay out of this fight I live about a quarter mile from the site but uh until yesterday when I read the staff report and it got my blood boiling a little bit my concerns are simple uh there are too many units crammed onto this property that's 2 acres in size um the issue the is the primary issue revolves around the bonus intensity Zone overlay um to accommodate uh density of almost 14 units per acre density That You Don't See out of uh that most jurisdictions don't see out of their downtown area or light rail areas um this is just it's it's way too many units on this small parcel uh the purpose of a b b is to per permit modifications to development standards fostering greater intensity and encouraging unique Innovative and highquality developments the proposed modifications including reductions to building setbacks landscape yards building separations do not align with the intent of the B the deviation shot should should be justified by exceeding minimum development standards uh offering more open space connectivity public uh amenities reget regrettably this proposal falls short on all of these fronts staff has recommended approval saying these development standard deviations can be approved so long as a project includes distinctive superior quality designs and incorporate sustainable Design Elements the problem is it doesn't uh the city zoning ordinance defines the superior design as one that meets all five of the following elements emphasizes holistic design includes a responsive approach to the site is sustainable in design provides site and design standards that exceed standard development requirements and creates great public spaces now even if we could uh come to an agreement on what is holistic and uh sustainable all of those things that these farmhouses may be we know for sure that it it that it does not meet the minimum development standards nor provide great public spaces that's the intent of the b um somewhere along the way the bonus intensity Zone uh originally intended for Unique Redevelopment opportunities has been misused it's it's become a cut and paste of every other recently approved project in Mesa such as the Allen the canals on Baseline all of these other projects which come with their own problems and if you don't believe me you can talk to your city council about those uh it's being used to sidestep basic development requirements like landscape setbacks building separations ultimately increasing density without delivering the promised unique and Innovation thank you Mr thank you it' be I'd like to ask if if we could hold the Applause one it interrupts the speaker and two it's actually taking a little bit more time so just in an effort to try to get through through all of you guys so you all get a chance to speak I'd appreciate if we didn't have the Applause I know everybody's excited everybody wants to get up and speak Applause that would work just fine yes thank you though I appreciate I understand the everybody wants to get it up here and speak so uh Maggie Brooks good evening committee members um my name is Maggie Brooks I live at 18 my husband Robert you saw the card Robert and I live at 1832 North Gilbert Road we our property is directly south of the proposed townhouse development so we are the ones where our driveway marries up with the townhouse um driveway it is entrance and exit so at the uh design meeting I you know I brought up the fact so sometimes so it's a gated community they got to put their coat in and then they got to stand there and wait for Gilbert Road to clear well again it's exhaust pollution that is spewing and it's spewing at us so I and my husband um are against this property and I am in agreement and I'm sorry one of the people CL happing for such very good points that the other um community members and our neighbors spoke up about we also our property goes all the way back to the West right next to Richards and when he said the little dog park it's not a dog park it's where they're going to go and use the little piece of grass is my question is is there a manager on site probably not so who's going to there's going to be a can and they're going to clean up and put it in there now who's going to empty that can somebody's got to take that trash with the dog and go all the way it's not no one's going to be watching that kind of stuff but again our property is going to be the one that's inundated with that kind of smell and flies so again very against it it is too dense in my words and again I'm shaking my head in agreement with yes it it's crazy when you when you see it um Tim brought it up on the screen and here's this big chunk that's all these homes crammed in there it is way too many traffic everything else another question and I saw it on the on the design is a retention Basin it's going to rain folks and when it does I hope that retention Basin can collect enough water and not run into our property so the other one is uh lighting nothing was mentioned about lighting um noise level we got 26 units that are pumping out air conditioning units and you can hear that hum and now 26 hums well guess who gets to hear it our property the the families and the west of us um so again I I said um my address but I didn't mention we have lived there for 31 years and sure would like to live a lot more more okay if this fits into our community we like and love our neighbors and the activities that go on this is family oriented and again if there's not a complex manager I'm afraid it's going to deteriorate that's your time thank you thank you very much appreciate it Miss Brooks make sure you get that right thank you Laura Skinner we are Laura Skinner 1917 North Oracle Circle first off I'm a little bit interested that we get three minutes to rebuttal what Mr Bole said which had so many inaccuracies in it that I hope you reach out to somebody who can share that with you because he was not genuine in what he shared um I know a city needs to grow and change over time but unless a project is needed for the city if all of the neighbors are against the project I do not know why our city would approve it so a developer and a land owner can own earn a bunch of money if those of us who live in this neighborhood do not want the project then why do you as a city need one more apartment comp complex because Mr Bole from the beginning said oh we' like to sell them but we know they won't sell that's what he told us at our first meeting it'd be too too expensive in today's economy so we know they'll be rented which I know is not what he shared today but that's what he has shared with us in the past he you noticed he mentioned the Allen multiple times but nobody ever mentions the property on Second Avenue and Horn I go by there at least four times a week there are always houses cars parked along Second Avenue there are cars parked in the um Sports Complex over there there are cars parked behind every single garage going sideways because all of those people if they don't have an extra car they're using it for storage and every single parking space is full so for him to have these that they back up to each other on a very small Road and garages back up to each other people are going to still try to Park along there just like the gentleman who had been the fireman said they're going to try to park along there because their garage is full of things or they have a third car and so what are they going to be able to do it's not even feasible for them to be able to do that I was a little disappointed in design review board's comments he neglected to mention how one of the board members said I think you're going to have to make a five-point turn to get into these garages because the road's so narrow another one mentioned how um you're going to have to like there's only a few parking spots that you're going to be able to have guest so only a few people can have a guest at any given time I'm thinking are they going to have to have you sign up to have somebody come over and and so to me it felt like all he wanted to mention is they're doing no trees it's amazing to me how often the trees get brought up having an apartment complex that is so dense and so unfair to the neighborhood kind of who cares about the trees because once those trees are put in and once the city approves the project if those trees die there's nothing the neighbors can do about it those trees could be gone in a minute and there's nothing anybody can do about it um let me see look at my notes I'm sorry you're out of time Miss I'm sorry I'm sorry I appreciate your comments thank you uh Greg lamri there he is chairman members of the board thank you so much for the opportunity to speak today I'll speak very quickly I believe somebody mentioned that they gave me their time I don't know if that shows up in there um uh Tyler did a great job mentioning the concerns about uh the B overlay for this project I I've apply applied for many projects and tried to get these overlays sometimes successful sometimes not because we didn't meet all of the requirements for these overlays they're very important for the city of Mesa to have these overlays I think my biggest concern is when we look at projects like the Allen uh there are projects that have recently been done uh you talked about one this uh afternoon in your study session uh Rogers in Maine I believe uh the Allen 32nd in Southern and Second Avenue and or when you look at these projects they don't have Windows looking into to the neighbor yards uh the Allen specifically rotated all the buildings so that they would not look into the neighbor's yard all of those are unique and they don't have homes looking into the yard which is not what we're getting here and so as those have been approved uh take a look at those site plans and you'll see that the sight lines are very different than what we've been uh given here today we've talked to uh Mr Bole about this numerous times uh he won't listen to our concerns about that I mean it would be very I'm an architect I understand how these things go together very easy I laid out some site plans for him where it would work that we're not looking into the neighbor's yard it's very easy uh the separation between these buildings at 9 ft as you're you're driving down Gilbert Road you can't even tell that they're separated and uh the biggest part about this is the uh B overlay those um I'll read it again uh they to Foster greater intensity and encourage unique Innovative and high quality developments that are good for neighborhoods for neighborhoods not the development itself but it's good for the neighborhood there's nothing about this development that is any good for the neighborhood it it it he's taken every single um restriction and and gotten rid of them because of his need to cram so many units on this little tiny lot uh we've asked for him over and over to reduce this down to eight eight units and he refuses to do that and I understand that the development costs today are Sky High we're all facing that everybody faces that but that shouldn't be a reflection on what we have to take as a neighborhood so that they can make a bunch of money and I mean I really like to make money on my projects I really focus on doing that every single time doesn't always work out but uh I understand that need uh as a developer so maybe this site isn't exactly right the other thing is I've lived in this neighborhood for 30 years uh 25 years ago we started having neighborhood meetings we we built a great neighborhood uh we have a lot of uh activities together um we have been waiting for Gilbert and melbs to turn into something decent and last two two or three years here all of a sudden Gilbert and melops is transforming this is not the highest and best use for the city for the community for the neighborhood we really need something here that generates tax dollars for the city something commercial on the 2030 plan this site is mentioned on the border uh on that uh transition area from commercial to neighborhood we would really like to see something commercial here there's previously an opportunity for a salad and go to go here the the direct neighbors uh when that happened I don't remember getting a notice on that where I should have um they didn't want that salad and go because of the the noise from the speaker uh for ordering and today we all know that you can order U different ways than having uh Jack in the Box speaker yelling at you and so there's new opportunities for us to uh look at commercial projects drive-through projects like that that can be laid out on a site like this and generate tax dollars for the City rental projects uh provide a tiny amount of tax dollars and I just don't think this is the highest and best use for this site for the community for the neighborhood and for the the the great people that I live around and so thank you so much for your time uh most of this has been mentioned that I wanted to go over uh in in my list here so I'll turn it back over to uh the next speaker thank you thank you Mr lber next up is Steve Irvine the ja hands out there ja hello I am Steve rine um I'm a person who has spent my professional career developing and making recommendations to State commissions and uh City coun and uh that if memory serves correctly that includes uh withering yet joyful cross-examination by my favorite utility lawyer Mr Crockett um and in that career one of the things I've learned is that as a career technocrat I'm not a technocrat in zoning I I do utilities but um one of the things I've learned is that you can apply all the metrics you can as you can do all the I don't know the the terms you've used here does it meet the plan and and you can still come out with a bad idea and and one of the things I've I've learned is that you have to ask yourself at the end of the day okay does this make good sense does it make Horse Sense does it pass the Horse Sense test and you need to do that before you stand up in front of a commission or or a council to make sure you haven't come to a bad conclusion and I think this is a bad conclusion I think it's one of those cases and I want to share my hor sense with you on this issue um because that's democracy I'd like to think that people can buy a single family residential home with neighbors that are single family R residential homes and not have them leveled and replaced by two-story apartments with windows that get to look down into your yard one of the houses is vacant but there one of the Lots is vacant but there was a house there before I help put a roof on that house with the many of my neighbors a and as you've heard this isn't infill this is replac M of single family homes with multif family homes and um there might be times of places for that there may be you know if you buy a home with a vacant lot that's never been developed sure that's INF Phill if you buy it in a place where there's lots of multif family multi-story that's fine if you build it in a Transit Corridor that's fine I don't think my neighbors expected that now I appreciate they're going to put up trees but the city has no regulatory authority to assure that they'll go quick that they'll go grow wide enough to provide an adequate screen no regulatory authority to prevent that they'll die or that the wind will blow them down the Builder can say sure we've built it there's a screen we're fine and my neighbors will have people looking in their yards where the kids are swimming in their pools and I don't want that for them I I think this project my sense of this project is that it's so dense because this is profiteering at the expense of my neighbors and it's just not the right fit for this neighborhood and I don't want that for them please don't do that to them thank you thank you Mr appreciate your time um Catherine margar did I say that right oh wow kudos to me today I did something right okay Katherine Margaritas is I live at 1912 East Jensen Street and so you've heard all these comments on Jensen street but I actually live on Jensen Street Street and I see all of the traffic problems on Jensen Street and I live probably the fourth house from Gilbert Road and I tell you by the time people reach me and I'm not exaggerating people are probably going 40 miles an hour they speed down our street so bad and I think that we get a lot of traffic too because when they put speed bumps on mlen people didn't want them so they're avoiding the speed bumps going down our street and another thing I've seen we have a lot more kids playing outside especially across the street from me and I hear breaks squal all the time slamming on their brakes because the kids are outside playing maybe running the street their ball goes into the street and we constantly see kids almost get hit and another thing is when you're coming down Gilbert Road like they say that it turns into the two lanes and then the Turn Only on to Jensen well people we've had a few people hit the irrigation thing that stands on the corner it's been crashed into because they can't get over they don't realize oh it goes it's only two lanes now and so that thing's been repaired a few times and it's never been repaired right cuz water is always on the sidewalk from it but I just and I do believe there's not going to be enough parking and people are going to they're going to come and park on Jensen Street along with maybe parking in gunnels or parking at T time it's not going to be enough parking spots and um another thing is in order for them to go to the grocery store the fastest way is they're going to turn out their complex and they're going to go down Jensen Street we're going to get way more traffic because of this and so I'm against it thank you thank you Miss Margaritas Rebecca Irvine hi my name is Rebecca Irvine I live at 1840 North Oracle I've been an Arizona resident for nearly 50 years and Liv lived in the neighborhood for more than 20 um of course Mesa has changed a lot over the last 50 years um but some of the neighborhoods are still working to retain what many would consider desirable Lifestyle the candlelight Royal Palms and Jensen Square neighborhood is definitely one of those there's a wide variety of reasons why neighbors dislike the proposed idea of the farm homes concept that's being planned and I'd like to State outright that I firmly support the numerous other reasons being voiced by my neighbors here today but instead of repeating the same issues over again I'd like to spend my comment time focused focusing on one of the reasons given for building this concept and why it is not a valid argument one of the primary reasons we have heard multiple times is that these are going to be rental homes um The Farms homes um they've been building those they're saying there's a drastic need for additional housing so I spent some time looking into this claim and here's what I found three years ago in 2021 the Maricopa Association of governments reported a non-seasonal vacancy rate of 5% for rental units in the county but over the past 3 years that 5% vacancy rate has nearly doubled the Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development reported last July that the Phoenix Mesa Chandler area including some parts of panel County had an 8% rental vacancy rate ey Property Management reported in November 2023 a vacancy rate of 99.8% and less than a week ago a local television news station reported the pH Phoenix Metro Area Rental vacancy rates between 9 and 10% clearly vacancy rates of rental properties will continue to rise this is not surprising considering the amount of construction currently play a Tribune article from last year reported Mesa downtown transformation manager Jeff McVey State saying there are currently 1500 to 2,000 residential units in various stages of the planning process just for downtown Mesa additionally there are are more than 800 Apartments approved for construction in the fiesta district and I'm sure there are numerous other small smaller complex being planned including some by Mr Bole clearly there is not going to be a shortage of housing in Mesa in the near future in fact it is likely by this time next year the vacancy rate will be in the double digits similar to pre-pandemic levels now I believe many in this room actually support the Planning and Zoning commission for bringing more Apartments to Mesa the corridors along the right Rail and by the us60 with their walkable retail and public transportation facilities are ideal places for such projects but is it bringing High Den is bringing high density apartment living appropriate for a small 1 Point acre infill plot especially when vacancy rates of rental units will be over 10% by the time it's built or when it doesn't fit the tenor of the neighborhood and is already causing turnover and declining property values I for wednes say no it's not needed thank you thank you uh Jay Carpenter there he is no no my name is Jay Carpenter I live at 1807 East Juniper Circle mes Arizona and I'm right next well I'm in close to the neighborhood that is being discussed the project being discussed I'm not an expert on development I'm not an expert on setbacks I'm not an expert on all those things my background is as a mortgage broker I've been in the business 35 years and I know the last couple years have been very difficult for people to buy homes prices have gone up and interest rates have gone up and home prices uh rental and mortgage payments have gone up it's not uncommon for me to see a young family trying to buy a home and their parents come in and they co-sign with them because they can't afford to do that it's not uncommon for me to see uh two or three single individuals going together to purchase a home and we are able to do it that way so when I look at this project and I say okay this is a rental unit maybe they they'll sell them maybe not probably not because I haven't heard that then what's going to happen is young couples are going to come in and they're going to want to rent that property and they're going to say well we can't afford it so what do they do they're going to get somebody to come in with them to cosign or rant with them and there's going to be more than just a couple it's going to be a couple and someone else because this is a three-bedroom two bath project and or it's going to be several individuals young adults coming together three four and they're going to go in to have a place to to live nothing wrong with that I I agree with that the issue that I have as I as I look at this and I think in my mind okay what's going to happen I kind of know what's going to happen because I've seen it I've been there I do this that's my business so you've got a long driveway coming into the south side it's 1.8 acres and then you've got a driveway goes down there it's been narrowed to to keep everything together to as best they can so if I lived at the end of that driveway and I'm going past 26 homes to get to mine hopefully there's not two or three people trying to get in and out at the same time and then when I'm leaving in the morning and I'm backing out and there's another 26 homes I have to go by I think I'm going to be pretty upset just getting out of the project or getting into the project it's going to be a very difficult project to get in and out of especially if there's two or three extra people that are living in these homes to make them affordable and there's extra cars it's just what's going to happen so I've seen projects my daughter and son-in-law bought a home in Copper Crest so Mr car I'm part your out of time if you could kind of wrap it up apprciate it I'll I'll wrap it up thank you sorry oh there you go okay uh truly Carpenter you can continue how's that for him um I live at 1807 East Juniper Circle I've lived there 30 years um the project is being packaged as affordable low-income housing there will be token a token gesture to sell some units but let's just call this project what it is an apartment complex it's implied that to fill theart the apartments the owners May apply to have this complex qualified for subsidized housing my husband and I managed Apartments many years ago that had Section 8 tenants and as the number of our Section 8 tenants grew so did um crime and the decline in the neighborhood frequently we had police called to document um property damage and to settle disputes um when you get a government agency involved a a government program it's difficult to evict Troublesome tenants now um the increase in crime in Mesa is frequently a topic in our local television newscasts and it seems like the escalation of project s like this one which are popping up all over Mesa have a direct correlation to the uptick and crime in our city I'd also like to okay I'm doing good okay um I I wanted to address that on Jensen [Music] um underneath Jensen there on both sides of Gilbert Road is a large tunnel that I have been told takes water to the City of Phoenix and this is often torn up and um several times a year there's construction and it lasts for several weeks if not months and um so if if this project is going to likely make uh traffic on Jensen increased that's just another thing for you to consider um years ago well not years ago the increase in traffic in our area will make us all less safe we already lost a precious little girl a few years ago who was hit by a car it was devastating to our neighborhood which was always who which has always nurtured protected and treasured our children we don't want more deaths and injuries I ask you to please value the uh the life and safety of our neighborhood more than gratifying the money-making aspirations of the Project's owners no amount of money is worth the cost of a human life and we have have personal family experiences with um the traffic issues on Gilbert Road and Jensen and my own son total a car there and luckily he wasn't um to um severely injured but we know personally of the hazards and I hope that you will consider this and um value our neighborhood more than the greed of investors thank you thank you m car uh Rebecca lamri I guess I got you mixed up earlier should have been right next to your husband okay my name is Rebecca Rucker Lambright I'm a fifth generation resident of Mesa and I've lived on my street for 30 years um and most of my neighbors have lived there longer than myself we did not leave our beloved Mesa for Queen Creek or Gilbert like uh many people did in times past we have stayed and we love it there um I do want to point out I we have been working with Josh or with Tim trying to do meetings um we've held him in our home um my husband's the an architect so he's very familiar with all these things so we've we have been trying to do that and I appreciate that Josh is doing his job as a City development person but it feels like he's an advocate for the developer and we are on our own so I guess we are relying on you the board to um listen to the citizens and and help us um we did do a design review board meeting a couple of months ago and I read through the minutes Rec recently and it just mentioned that Greg lamri was against this project we had given all of our time to him so that he would be able to speak for us and there was over 40 people in the audience they they had us raise our hand and they counted how many were there but and it was not noted in the minutes so I would like to have that on the record that there are over 30 33 people here that I know that are against this project um it has been mentioned all the things that I am against too traffic worries about that um apartment complex issues the one thing that I am worried about that hasn't been mention is Sober Living homes and apartments we have two on or street that we have dealt with the last few years and it has been a nightmare unfortunately we've met with the city um councilman Freeman came the police have come we've had me neighborhood meetings there was nothing that they could do to help us um correct this because the people claimed that there was four or less living in the unit so they were safe for following the rules however that was not the case there was always eight or so people living in these homes and we had domestic violence issues alcohol issues um serious problems uh really changed our neighborhood um Tim has also mentioned in meetings with us to go and compare um this this uh plan with some sites he gave um me 32nd Avenue or Street I guess in Horn which looks like it's under construction it is surrounded by a huge church parking lot a business center and one home that that is affected by that um project so not the same as us he said to go look at something across from the right house um I looked there I couldn't see any apartment complexes at all maybe there's a future plan I don't know he told me across from Fri on Main Street um I did find that there is a several um building units there uh it is on what Main Street is commercial totally different unit or not comparable to our could you go real quick to our um things at all and I do have problems with the trees I think they are only six feet away from the wall not able to live or survive or Thrive there thank you very much appreciate your time Miss L uh Teresa dare there she is I feel like saying come on down if I had that I wouldn't be here I'm Teresa adir could have given my time to all of them they've mentioned most of the things I live at um 1845 North Oracle I did own the home at 1829 North Oracle before that one so I have lived in this area in this neighborhood for 38 years um been in Mesa for 50 years and my husband has been in Mesa for 72 years so we have purchased a home in that area raised our family in that area and have enjoyed that area my complaint is the sober living transient uh problem that we've had in the last two years it has changed our neighborhood as a woman who lives right across the street from that um the fear in building these apartments and them being rentals brings up more of that transient sober living idea in my mind and I have had it where they have stared at me watched me I have people in my neighborhood I don't know a lot of times I'm at home alone I lock my doors and keep everything shut we have cameras in the neighborhood from all of our neighbors we have bonded together we bonded together before this and we've bonded together with this this is not a good fit for our neighborhood for all the reasons that they have already stated the one on the traffic I thought that's just an accident waiting to happen I don't know how we would get past a fatality there on that Gilbert southbound right-and turn into Jensen I don't know how with that many people going in right there how we would ever avoid a fatality and that is something to consider my life's important my neighbor's lives are important and it's more important than the money that the person is making off of this I really want to keep the zoning where it's at thank you so much thank you Mr there uh um Robin Rowley hi I'm Robin relly I live at 1814 East Jasmine Circle couldn't remember there for a minute um and I my complaint is similar to some others but I'm I'm going to go ahead and say this because I've been thinking about it a lot The Architects have claimed that we did not like the original modern design of these units when I stated that I didn't like the design I was not referring to the facade of the buildings you can put any number of Swiss style pointy triangles on the front of the structures and it's not going to change what I'm opposed to I'm opposed to this high density housing in this area recently in my neighborhood just west of this site where I live and I've lived a long time there a landlord rented many properties to a non-government organization so this is kind of what others have referred to this NGO then placed Indigent people in these homes these residents had a myriad of behavioral mental health alcoholism abuse and Family Violence issues they should have been getting treatment in qualified facilities instead the NGO and landlord were making huge amounts of money through government subsidies by housing them without Bonafide treatment in our neighborhood in the 45 years I've lived in this square mile I've never had to call the police regarding a neighbor's Behavior since these residents have moved in in the last 18 months we've had to call at least five times regarding fights trespassing drunkenness loud parties at 2 a. and child abuse Mr Bole claims these apartment units will provide lower cost rentals so his children can move in with his grandkids but I'm afraid from what I've seen in the houses around me that this this same landlord or others will buy or rent these lower cost rentals and then sublet them out to these NOS so they can fill them with troubled people who need treatment we've seen this to be the case in the canals on Baseline project the city of Mesa needs to find a way to prevent these things from happening but the city of Mesa claims we have no recourse when the they say that there's less than four people or less than five in the in the home my question is why do the rights of one greedy developer and land owner Trump the objection of all these residents I'm wondering if melops is the next street to go this direction if the owners would like to build nice houses on this lot I would not oppose putting in five to eight homes originally these two lots only had two houses so reduce the number of units and increase the value of the property instead of diminishing it we don't need this high density slum-like apartments in this neighborhood use the infill property for something that will build up the neighborhood instead of tearing it down thank you m r Carol voy hi there my name is Carol voy and I live at 1743 North rig Circle and I just found out about this literally a couple of weeks ago I guess when the first letter came out I didn't get it I was out of town and uh the letter we got recently it didn't even have the city of Mesa on it I just thought it was an advertising for to sell my house or something that to that effect but anyways when I found this found out about this housing coming up I was appalled I've lived in this home my husband's been there over 30 years 97% of the homes are ranch homes not two stories three stories whatever they wanted to start out with but these homes should be single homes or duplexes and and literally ranch style homes because that's the aesthetic of the neighborhood and of course they mentioned all about the uh the traffic our neighborhood is we all get along really great we have all kinds of activities in our square mile I'm showing you this I went around a my golf cart when I found this was going on because I didn't know about this sooner and I have pages of signatures of homeowners that live here in this area way more than sitting out here and I appreciate everybody coming in because we have to stand up for our neighborhood so basically I'm here to plead with you don't rezone this and don't put in these apartments it's going to be nothing but the Indianapolis going down Jensen Street and then because of the 202 we got all that noise and of course no one informed me that they were going to change the um the flight plan so I have all the flight PL all the planes now we don't need any more noise so we're not here just we're here because we love our neighborhood and we don't want it to change are you listening to us I'm just asking are your eyes glazed over please listen to us because we really this is our homes and I won't be able to cruise around on my little golf cart either if it's going to be like the Indianapolis on these roads thank you thank you Miss V uh Dale J Sabin thank you my name is Dale Sabin and I live at 1808 East Juniper Circle I've been there for 22 years um uh we believe that the best use for the property under consideration would be the owner's first consideration and that is a senior care facility I believe that this was what the buyer of the Jones home were told when given a life estate so that they could live so they could have the money to live on and not have to move out of the property upon Mr Jones demise the land reverted to the owner and I'm not sure if it still is the same owner but this property was purchased for that purpose many years ago and many years before there was any kind of uh uh ideas for for what it would be apparently that that changed for some reason I don't know why uh this use would avoid uh the sober living mess going on in other parts of Mesa uh with the cob for instance and also the the drug use neighborhood trash beer bottles cans wrappers needles Etc constant police traffic and also the transient traffic and crime that would be forced into our neighborhoods uh that's come with these developments let's just stick with that use a senior care facility not a lot of traffic not a lot of vehicles and and out of the neighborhood one way in one way out enough parking for families to visit actual care being given to the to the neighborhood no transient traffic in our neighborhood how about a vote on calm and quiet thank you thank you Mr sa uh Stuart Simons thank you very much for the opportunity to talk uh my name is Stuart Simons I live at 1806 East Jasmine Circle so a local resident and uh very active in the community um have some notes Here I have a copy of them attached to it as some people uh find my accent a little bit difficult to understand at times and I have to motor through this um every infield project does not have to become a high density housing this particular project will have a a significant detrimental effect on the neighborhood property values particularly of houses that it borders this will these will these will plumet there's no doubt and the neighborhood as a whole will see a domino effect we've seen this and it's fail signs have already gone up and information provided is shown by the others that buyers are scared off by this possibility it's not even it's not even set in stone yet the prediction is in turn this will impact who buys these houses these ones that are for sale and what how they used and lead to a downturn in the neighborhood already the proposed development is having a negative impact on our tight-nit community neighborhood as we've already seen we've seen multiple houses bought up and used uh outside of uh legislative um guidelines and we have um felt the the bad the negative effects of that so while the narrative has been spun that this will be a benefit to the neighborhood and I as a group and we as a collective cannot see any positives to it there's just none and have any change like this to high density using the the very number supplied by the developments with regards to traffic management there is considerable concern of additional cars entering the neighborhood especially uh Jensen Road using it as a thoroughfare buring that development property is located on the western side of Gilbert Road in a major access to the 202 is to the north the nearest other accesses to the 202 being 3 miles to the east or west uh during uh periods of high traffic Gilbert r will be almost impossible to get across I know that from personal experience we understand that there is no possibility put a light of signal in in there and and say that will cause uh people to attempt to make a dangerous leftand turn across three southbound lines of Gilt road to exit left out of the property to head north to Gil up Gilt road to 202 or use Jensen and then Williams or Harris to get back onto melbs so then they can make the the Northbound turn onto Gilbert Road increasing traffic on Jensen that is currently has has no traffic calming devices on it and that's where a direct cost will come to the city of Mesa because as soon as we start seeing high mass of traffic what does the city always do so just your time speeds y um and it's a neighborhood where we see uh lots of EX people exercising walking people kids riding to school that sort of thing there's large amount of pedestrian traffic on there um consider one other thing one comment I really want to make um not going to get through all of it but um the the design the development design uh sees the removal of the sound attenuation wall in front of the property that's currently there and very similar to what is used in on other parts of Gilbert and melbs um this is high density um uh property such as this with large amounts of people there will have no sound attenuation um with and a no barrier against uh sound coming off Gilbert Road I about as far away from the ne you get and I can hear Gilbert Road so these people are going to and so yeah uh lots more in there there's plenty in the next attached to the comment card I'd like you all to read it um because I think I had some good points I have um three here that are going to be asked I've asked to give their time to Dana Duncan so I'll read their names off real quick so Nancy Sabin 1808 East Juniper Circle um Shauna day Gomez at 1757 East Indigo Street and Denise Duncan at 1918 North Forest is that all correct yep good all right and I live with my wife at 1918 North for first there you go first off I would like to deeply thank Jeff Crockett for making it so that I'm not the only one wearing a suit here okay thank you very much I appreciate it um like I said my name is Dana Duncan 1918 North Forest uh I am all about property rights affordable infill for my children and retirees and many of you as many of you on the board but that's not really what this is about as some friends of mine called The OJ's put it so well money money money money this is about [Music] money had to wait for the money money money we we had a couple of people meet with Mr Bole and they were talking about the price of these and it was our assumption that they were going to be around $250,000 a unit and we thought oh okay and his partner Mike Hudson is he your partner Mike Hudson boasted that they were going to get $450,000 a unit that means if they sold all 26 they'd have just about $12 million out of this project I was once told who who is going to spend a million dollars on a home right there on Gilbert well someone's going to get $12 million or at least they're hoping to my concern is about the density many of you board members live on homes that have a little acreage some similar to what we've got going here the city of ma Mesa as we've heard from uh other people tolerates 8 to 10 residents per apartment complex or per home per single family residence uh we know this because of the unlicensed sober living facilities that are in our neighborhood I'd like you to imagine on your house if you had 260 people living in your yard 260 people day and night each one of them having three cars that would give you 81 cars on your lot right in your home these people would use 400 if we're looking at the average from Arizona water.gov 473,000 gallons of water a year and would produce 405 tons of trash every year every year you're hauling 405 tons out to the trash if you reduce that even to 7 17 and had a ccnr that only allowed four people there you would reduce that to 68 people at your party at your house with only 34 cars they would use a quarter of the water 119,000 gallons and produce only 102 tons I can understand that the space needs to be better utilized but I would like to see the the rural is neighborhood that we have preserved why can't we compromise why can't we have several numbers have been thrown out 12 to 16 high-end units with a 10-ft fence in between it and large Ficus to block the views the revenue that they would have would be similar they'd have 7 to8 million doar that they would have coming in from the sale of those units at the price that they had talked about what is to prevent them from selling all of the units before they ever go to market and we end up with a situation like the canal on Baseline with myriads of unlicensed sober living and a taxed police and fire department that have to go every single day on some kind of call there should you decide not to approve a or to approve this application please pass on to the council members that will be hearing this next that there are a handful of developers but there are hundreds of neighbors who vote thank you appreciate your time thank you very much okay that was my last card so we will invite the applicant up to respond I'll see if I can I'll see if I can do it three see how long I think you got a little more than three I'll try and stick it to three because I want to leave as much as everybody else I do appreciate everyone for coming out for participating in the public process I'm not going to be able to solve all of the concerns that everyone has but I will try to quickly um explain uh some things that I can um the mulga trees are a low spill and a deep root tree um they will be about uh 8 feet 9 ft away um our landscape architect that's what he recommended so that they wouldn't the root system wouldn't mess up the wall um the the variance that we've talked about uh for the B that's to allow the additional parking spaces up on the North side and to have the uh trash moved away from the the houses that's the variances that we're looking for it's not to have the trees in another place or lower or anything like that it's it's so that we can add the additional parking and move the trash away um the exit is gated only fire and trash will be able to open that gate it's not open it's not operable by the residents of the neighborhood um and the uh the units their luxury unit so they'll be sprinklered um which should help with the concerns about fire um there was some talk about it being a salad to go in a restaurant but also there's a talk about noise and air pollution and traffic problems uh restaurants generate quite a bit more traffic than residential units um so it's it's it's very difficult to make everybody happy um we could definitely move the dog park onto the Gilbert side there's plenty of room for those who were concerned about the dogs being in that corner um let's see um again these are not going to be subsidized housing they are the they are for sale the the goal has always been that they'll be for sale that's why we design them that's why I designed these types of units to make them for sale um the sober living home that's a a concern that all of us have about all of our neighborhoods we have two in our neighborhood as well um that's a larger problem that the city has been working on when I was on the Planning and Zoning Board we worked on it something that the city is working on there are federal and state guidelines that are a lot more intrusive and the city is trying to avoid those um and finally I wish I had a better song to play but I just don't happen to have one um but I'm happy to answer any additional questions you may have had that came up from the um the speakers you got Jeff do you want to start go yeah thank thanks Tim for those those comments let me ask you about a couple of things that came up um and have you just comment on these uh one is the traffic issue along Gilbert Road and I live I grew up off just off Gilbert Road on Hackamore so I know the the the issue with the lanes merging down from 3 to two and I will tell you at times as I'm heading South I zip in from that third lane over to continue on on Gilbert so uh just speak to the traffic concern um along Gilbert Road and then the concerns that were raised about access to the Fire Department inside the the development and whether trucks can get in and out and maneuver around and then also the comment about the fivepoint turn possibly to get into the garages in there and and whether the streets too narrow uh in your opinion okay um the it's oh it's not showing up there the up here the fivepoint turn there was a we had an original design that when you were looking through the gate you would see a tree and there was sort of a tongue that came around like that we took that out in the newer design so if you see it on your packet you should see that when you come in the gate if you're trying to turn into those parking spaces on the south there used to be a little tongue that kind of reached up and you wouldd have to drive around it that's what the fivepoint turn was referring to so we we removed that um after the design and review board meeting um uh as far as firetruck access into the site um the there's no parking allowed on the on the inner streets um I I know that these uh units people certainly have the they can do it but they will be um if it's since it's for sale the HOA would find anyone that got caught putting their U parking their car in front of their garage um and that's uh it's not allowed so I mean you could you could park cars anywhere and and block that um but 24 feet so the a drive VI is 20 ft required for a firet truck the 24t um is is the backup distance coming out of a garage and so uh most of these um types of uh developments have a 24t uh driveway going through them and traffic and Fire City fire everything hasn't had any issue with that in the past hasn't come up of something that's been a concern and something that's that's caused problems in the past um what else Gil kind of the traffic on Gilbert Road being able to get in and out of the project again yeah so the the Y2K traffic engineer um said there'd be 12 to 13 peak hour trips on Gilbert so it's not really creating a whole lot more traffic than is already on Gilbert um and the reason we only have the gate on the south side is to avoid people whipping out the north side and driving around that but that was looked at uh lots of discussions with Peter Vargas and other um people who work on traffic with the city and they were content with the design that we gave them they're the ones that look at this day in and day out and they're the ones that we we go to for what works and what doesn't do that is that the answer of what you wanted about the traffic yeah I I think so I I think for now that's kind of answered my questions I may have a couple of more as we go along sure thank you you got anything Jason thinking about it okay down this way nothing there you got anything think uh I just have one thought just maybe to talk a little bit through your uh the b b overlay justification like to hear your thoughts on that one that's the only one I've got a question on so the our our um our submittal prior to this one everything fit within the existing setbacks the required setbacks everything like that we we want wanted there to be additional um parking spaces as that as traffic and parking was a concern and so when we asked for that B I don't think it's showing the mouse isn't showing up there but it's those top five parking spaces um originally there's a you you're required to have a 15ot landscape setback we've reduced that on the North side because it's just the tutortime parking lot up there it's not going to be um affecting anyone who lives there and so we we pushed that up and then the uh the trash container um we used to have it on the northwest side we moved it over there and we've also moved up that closer to the North Side those are the those are the big um asks that we have in the B just to be able to make that um more convenient and to get more parking gotta any others Jason oh Jeffrey go for it if I if I could um have you have you talked with the neighbors about a good neighborh policy to address some of the parking concerns that there may there may be or anything um we haven't we've tried to just add additional parking but we're happy to come up with a Good Neighbor policy and if they're starting to see cars park on their on their street um that's something we would definitely we could build into a um uh an agreement a city agreement that we would take care of that my guess would be though if if there's any overflow parking again we design it so there's a lot more parking than is required I would guess that people would park to the north to The Tutor Time parking lot or to the other things long before they would park on Jensen because that's a really long walk from there so my guess is that you know on Saturdays or times when it's not there the Overflow would probably go to the north and it wouldn't end up on Jensen but we're happy to come up with a um a good neighor agreement on that okay Jason did you figure yourself you're good okay Jamie you got something yeah I just have one question a lot of folks had talked about like the demographics of who would be living in this um and they mentioned you know scenarios um can you clarify like what is your targeted audience or who are your residents I know you you said you can't answer whether it's ownership or rental I understand that but beyond that folks talked about multi K you know multiple scenarios of living arrangements sure so who is your target audience yeah so again the goal is that these would be for rent or sorry the goal these would be for sale oops stuck my foot in it there didn't I now I need that music um the goal at these would be for sale um other uh projects like this that that we've done um typically so if these uh if these were for sale the the ones that we looked at across from Main Street that kind of inspired these those are selling for $400 to $430,000 each so it would be someone that can afford that amount um that would likely be living here um the rents at the Allen are somewhere around 27 to 2800 um the from the Allen so the Allen's the close one that's why we bring bring it up um there were two medical doctors living at the Allen there were someone who drove a Maserati it seems to be young professionals and retirees that typically um live in these in these types of developments uh the one across from the fries on Main Street um when it came in because that's our neighborhood we were concerned when it first came in that the same thing would happen that would they would end up being rentals and and low come and section8 and all of those things um I know the realtor Glenna who does that they are primarily owner occupied and those who have bought them have lived in them basically since they bought them and so that's that's been a good a good sign for this type of unit being for sale and functioning as a good development thank you yeah one more sorry just just a couple more so um if these if these units are sold would would then you develop uh ccnr that would be that would be recorded to to address like kind of parking limits and some of the other concerns that have been raised by the neighbors yes yes as a as a as a development like this there would be an HOA that would be required to take care of all of those things so there would be that would be um yeah there's an HOA they have ccnr just like any new development would have in it and if this winds up being a for rent project would there be an on-site manager or how would that how would that work well if it was for rent I mean so when we say if it's for sale or for rent our intent is to sell these if the individual owners rent them that's not anything that we can control unless we can put some safeties in the CC andrs and the legality of that is always really really tricky if it if it did end up being the whole thing was a big for rent thing um that would be up to the developer or the the owner of that um if if we owned it we're not intending to put it up for rent or anything like that um then yeah one of the people who lives in one of the units would probably be the onsite manager okay all right thank you good all right any other questions for the applicant no I think you're good sorry we we can't have yeah thank you for your time unfortunately not yet we're good I do have a question for Josh you do have so Josh we do have a question from the board for you actually though let's Grill Josh hey Josh I'm not going to grill Josh but do you can you comment on the traffic study for this project I know there's been a number of concerns about how people are going to get in and out whether there's going to be issues along Gilbert Road what could you just describe what that process looks like in terms of doing a traffic study and what the conclusions were sure so uh certainly uh chair and board member Crockett I do have some prior experience as a transportation planner uh so I do have a good idea of how typically these plans are done uh in this case I do want to add that uh we have also had a staff on site and um the city of Mesa transportation department did do a traffic analysis March of 2023 on the section between brown and melp in this area uh they determined that the average daily trip is 14,995 aware the four-lane capacity while I do understand it does shift from 6 to four we always go for the more stricter which would in this case would be the four lane arterial which uh per our standard does allow for a 45,000 daily trip average so this is under by 30,000 trips uh for that would be typically required uh and so because of that with our analysis based off of the not only the uh International traffic engineer uh manual but also via the uh traffic engineer that reviewed this case we feel that the trans not only myself but Transportation uh feels like this is consistent with our typical reviews and chair and and board members I just want to clarify that we are not the ones who do the traffic analysis that would be through our transportation team so we're giving the planning as aspects of the traffic study we don't have the traffic engineer here to answer those specific questions and thanks Mary for I I understand that you don't do the traffic study I just I wanted to get Josh 's Impressions or staff's Impressions on on the traffic issue you you don't have a concern U about the traffic associated with the new development is that fair to say uh chair and board member Crockett typically with the average daily trips specifically where we look at the peak PM trips and how that would impact this uh because they're not uh at such a density that would create for 30,000 trips uh it's consistent with about 30 or so for that Peak PM which which is that between that 4: and 6:00 p.m. time where you typically see traffic is consistent with that and would not be detrimental to the safety or quality of Gilbert from what it would be today thank you is there any other question for Josh no you do okay I I do have a question about Jensen Road and how the turning left to go north there um as it was alluded to I was in an accident there um so I'm curious how the traffic counts for that one specifically going to head north with this choke point so to speak uh might be studied or if it was evaluated and what that result was yes uh thank you chair board member Carpenter again Evan Balmer principal planner so um our traffic department did an extensive review of this um they did not express any concerns with a traffic increase on Jensen or Gilbert um again to to Mary's earlier point they're the experts that we rely on to review these um they are very thorough and if there were um any concerns they would have would have come to our attention anything else Jam Goodbody all right thanks Evan thanks Josh I think with that we'll close the public hearing and we'll begin a board discussion who would like to oh you're going to dive in let's go the traffic engineer is happy to start um so I appreciate everyone who spoke here today um I think I want to start out with saying that is quite clear from all of the commentary that folks had here that there are still a lot of concerns that the neighborhood has um parking I know that you are so being a traffic engineer I know that's not my role sitting here um on this uh in this as a PL and Zoning Board member but uh I am a practicing traffic engineer so um I do quite a bit of parking studies traffic studies um I can say for a fact that what was shared from the city is that there this is really a low traffic volume generator um and traffic wouldn't be of concern um in terms of the number of trips I know folks have talked about um commercial uses even uh the senior Senior Living those are all higher generators and that's just that's just I'm just telling you how the the practice Works um but that's regardless um my concern here I would Express is not necessarily is not the traffic um I am a little concerned about the parking um I know it exceeds the parking code um and I understand how that's applied with a apartment complex but what concerns me is that um the parking here on this site what's being counted is the garage stalls so they're not available to the guest like a apartment complex would have an open area of the 2.1 times the number of units would make it available to most whereas these are like locked in within garages so really what's available is the 10 um but but maybe that does work but I have heard that from from the folks out here as well um I think that it seems as though I'd like to believe that the folks here also um seem to be open or some have expressed being open to the idea of potentially another use here or a more reasonable use um residential but maybe not as intense um there all uh I think I think folks I'd like to believe folks recognize that the current use is is not been successful it's not been successful for a reason um so it's no longer um applicable in today not often are we accessing a single large residence off of an arterial roadway anymore um I think it's it's due for some type of change over um and it may include additional residences on one lot or two these two lots um but I think the concern is the amount but I think there's also been a recognition that there may be an increase from two to eight 12 folks have thrown some numbers out there I think folks seem to be open to the idea I think there's also ideas that have been thrown out on potential commercial uses that would be in alignment with um what's further north it would be adjacent to what's North and it would be continuing that as well um one thing I do want to mention that if it were to be com commercial uses it absolutely will generate more trips like that's just the way it works um and there is adequate capacity along Gilbert Road for more traffic I think the bigger complaint and I I I believe what you're seeing is it's not capacity that's the issue on Gilbert Road it's probably the speed um and that's a different issue so when we say traffic I think a lot of folks get the two kind of mixed and it's a combination of both but really there's a lot of capacity on Gilbert Road for additional traffic it's designed to do that um so and and that's that's a combination of volume and speed right and I get it and during peak hours those are difficult movements and that's why sometimes the best movement is a right turn when it's difficult but certainly during different off peak times if you're out there say on Saturday morning at 10:00 a.m. you probably can turn out pretty easily for sorry and and this is not a conversation so is do help the comments we're trying to get through so you guys can get home too just let us get through this and then we'll so I just wanted to kind of explain where I'm what I'm seeing um I'm going to say this much if you take it to As you move this through the system traffic really isn't the concern on this project as much as we want to keep saying that it is it it isn't um and then I know folks also brought up a lot of things like the drainage the fire and all of that and I just want to assure you I'm certainly not the expert in those things but the city will look at this and the city fire department is looking at this the city drainage Engineers are looking at this so those type of engineering items are also I would say off the table in terms of concerns they will meet standards they will be safe designed safely so um those are not as much of the concerns but I do hear your guys concerns I the parking um the the uh I think it's also the density the amount and then also um folks have talked about the views I know we talked about trees going in um and the wall going higher um but I think I can understand that the views if there's something that can be done there so that's where I think that's about all I've got have to say thank I I'll Chim in here my my concern is uh and I'm I'm familiar with a lot of what you're you're dealing with I've got a 250 unit uh 55 and older development going right in behind me so I'm I I know you're you're pain because they look right at my my uh my yard um my concern though is that um in this development you've only got about 35 to 50 ft that separates you and you've got windows that are looking straight in where in my case they they developed it so they wouldn't and so so we've got a we've got a density issue and we've got a view issue if if the view corridor you know view into the backyards were somewhere were tilted I know that that one of you made made those comments then then that that may make a difference because you wouldn't have that that direct view but that's that's my concern about U about this development you guys nothing Jason I just wanted to say you know it may appear that we're not listening I've got three pages of notes so we are listening we're taking this in we're absorbing we're digesting we're considering you know we we respect the rights of the property owners we respect the rights of the developers and we understand that I think there's true concerns here that um that we heavy in all your minds and I think as I put my feet in your shoes I would have many of the same concerns I live in an area that's full of apartments and full of subsidized apartments and I can understand the fears associated with with what they may bring to your community and I live in an area where we deal with that every day so you know um I I'm just saying that to that you know we hear you we understand we're considering it please don't hold what's the word I'm looking for here please don't no you sure hold me accountable but just understand that these things are being weighed and considered that's that's all I'm going to say you nothing you're good yeah good okay and I would Echo that I same thing guys lots of notes we take this we're not here just because we you know think this is going to be fun this is something we're trying to help our community we want to serve um so I will say you know I lived in this neighborhood for quite some time and I know it very well well I just was on the other side of Gilbert and lived in that area not very well um overall um I believe that you know it's a good thought for this development I think it's a good idea to have something like this as a buffer um Lots like this are complicated and very difficult um to develop so this as an ideas and as a concept and as a use makes a lot of sense generally I I support infill on especially on sites like this um I also appreciate all of the concerns that we've heard tonight especially with traffic with parking with density you know however this is within what we've seen there there's nothing new here this is within the Precedence of the nearby sites that we've seen although it is a little high and I have concerns too with all that being said however I'm um not quite sure if that this project is kind of with its current design meeting the criteria that I see when we ask for a b overlay if you look at that as soon as you ask for that type of an overlay there are and and and I cannot remember who brought it up I believe it was you Mr lamb right um that there are five requirements for that b b and I keep saying that wrong B overlay a holistic site and project design a responsive approach to the site sustainable design site and design standards that exceed the standard development requirements and quality public spaces and provide great public space and however on this current design I do not see it meeting all of those so I am not going to be in support of the project uh because of that reason alone so with that I'll leave it to the board if there's any more discussion or if there's anyone that would like to uh move forward with a motion chair board members I just want to make clear for the record that board member Peterson had to leave before this vote so there will be only five votes on this yes thank you thank you well then for purposes thought he was still here yeah he snuck out on us U um I will go ahead and make a motion I don't know if there will be a second for my motion but I'll go ahead and make the motion we'll see where it goes so I will move uh that we approve case z 23- z559 the farmhouses at 1902 North Gilbert District one within the 1800 to 1900 blocks of North Gilbert Road located south of melops Road and West of Gilbert Road reone from single residence r or single residence R s43 to multi-resident 2 with a bonus intensity Zone overlay and site plan review the this request will allow for a multiple residents development uh the staff recommendation is approval with conditions that is my motion thank you Jeff is there a second on that motion do not do that I don't know if there's no second do we look for if there is no second then the motion fails and you can entertain a new motion okay so the motion does failed is there any other New Motion Jason Jamie uh I'll move that the uh that z23 0559 not be approved and um that uh that our that's our recommendation to city council is there a second so I'll second that and so we'll move forward with a vote please everyone vote we need to vote I think it's because he decided to leave yeah M mine wasn't flashing so hold on he's trying to push a button but it's not working it's oh okay there it goes all right with three eyes uh the motion does pass so chair is just for clarification that is a denial of the recommendation from staff thank you everybody is there anything else from planning anything else that we need before I can adjourn nothing else from me thank you all right is there a motion to adjourn so move second second please let's just do verbal I I we're all good we're adjourned thank [Music] you [Music] n