[Music] The committee on zoning and planning is reconvening at 8 11:49 a.m. Moving to agenda item number five,formational briefing, update on the city's clean water natural lands fund program. Joining us in the council chamber will be first Katherine Tatchner, deputy director of housing and land management and Olu Campbell, president chief executive officer for the Hawaii Land Trust. for your information. Their presentations are available online as departmental communication 648 2025 and miscellaneous communication 4352025 respectively. And uh Dep deputy director, uh if you don't mind, I' um I'd also like for you to introduce your team because the whole idea of holding this hearing is both for city council members to know more about this undervalued and important program, but also for us to help in the de dissemination of uh the program to our constituents so that they could apply for this important program. Thank you. All right. Aloh is zoning chair Kiaina and other members of the Honolulu City Council Honolulu Honolulu City Council's Committee on Zoning and Planning. My name is Cat Tashner and I'm the deputy director for the Department of Housing and Land Management and I'm pleased to be here today to talk about one of the best parts of my job. Um there is a presentation roadmap over of what we'd like to cover today and I believe that's in the materials that was handed out. But thank you council member Kiaina. I would also like to introduce our team. I'm joined here today by Tam and Bri, our clean water and natural lands program managers. They are uh incredibly dedicated to the work and I'm I'm we're so pleased to have them today. Tam has a super strong legal and transactional background. So she helps us with the uh with the structuring and completing the transactions and Bri has a masters in natural resource and environmental management and so she assists with the stewardship and monitoring of the previously acquired parcels. Um these two women are the beating heart of the clean water and natural lands program and I'm really happy you got a chance to meet them. So I will begin with a brief overview of the clean water and natural lands fund its history. Um it was created by the voters through a charter amendment in 2006 and the program was officially started in 2007. Uh the first land acquisition made using the clean water and natural lands fund was in 2010 and then in 2016 the Honolulu voters approved an amendment to establish a an advisory commission. In 2022, the voters uh further amended the clean water and natural lands fund. This time to create a stewardship fund for lands that were previously acquired using clean water and natural lands monies. This these monies could go towards the operation and land management of those lands. In 2023, the clean water natural lands fund and the advisory commission were administratively transferred over to DM. And earlier this year, we stood up the conservation office so that the clean water natural lands program will have a permanent home within the city. The clean water and natural lands fund can be used for the purposes identified in section 9-204 of the city charter. We've put it up on the slide there, but it's really broad. It includes a it includes open space. It includes cultural and historical sites, um watershed land, coastal areas. So it really really is a broad fund and the charter also establishes a process for which applications and proposals for the use of the fund are uh are received. The process begins with the land owner or the applicant submitting an application to the department of land uh management actually the department of housing land management. We go through it with them. We do an initial review. we qualify it and thereafter it goes to the advisory commission for evaluation. Um the advisory commission will make a recommendation to the Honolulu city council for funding and after funding approval then it moves into negotiation and closing. This is where we do a lot of our due diligence. We work with the land owner. We work with the applicant to make sure how do we preserve these conservation values in perpetuity. This negotiation and closing phase can be extremely lengthy in some cases. uh you'll see on a on a later slide I think there there was 10 years it these are forever transactions and we want to make sure that we're structuring them um appropriately and so this period can take some time and eventually once we close then we move on to the next chapter of the um of the property which is the perpetual stewardship of the land charter establishes a seven member volunteer advisory commission with three appointed by mayor three appointed by the Honolulu city council and one appointed by the uh majority vote of the six appointed members. And the commission members come from a variety of conservation, science, education, policy, and cultural backgrounds. And I've listed the seven current u members on the slide. So that's the program. That's how we're established by charter. Now I'd like to move into the portfolio of assets. And this map indicates the in green the parcels that have been acquired using clean water and natural lands funds. Uh these are the ones that are now in perpetual stewardship. The items in blue are the ones that we are currently in due diligence for um negotiation, closing, documentation. And uh we'd like to do a particular spotlight on our agricultural lands. Several of many of our clean waterf funded acquisitions do support um active agriculture including the ones at Wahiwa Lands, Sunset Ranch, Turtle Bay, Malca, Haki Pu, Mal Noila, and Hava. I'm now going to turn it over to director designate Kevin O to talk about the existing portfolio, the funding sources, and the budget. Aloha Committee Chair Kia and honorable council members and committee members. I'm Kevin Oj. I'm the director designate of the department of housing and land management and um just a few comments. First on behalf of the department, I just wanted to reiterate how grateful we are for this opportunity to present this uh informational briefing today. I want to thank you uh committee chair Kia for your leadership and also for your interest in the committee's interest in collaborating with the department on this really important resource for the city. You know, I had the pleasure of working and observing the team as they prepared thisformational briefing over the last couple of days, and I have to tell you that the excitement from the team. Um, I I I can just only attest to their eagerness to uh provide this information and share out all the good work uh that our community partners uh that the Clean Water National Lands Commission and the department is doing with respect to the fund. Um the Department of Land Management, as you know, became a the Department of Housing and Land Management on May 1st this year. Um as a department, we're supremely focused on facilitating and accelerating uh the delivery of affordable housing production on Aahu, particularly in in terms of increasing density in transit neighborhoods uh transit oriented neighborhoods along the rail line. However, um our work with the clean water and natural lands fund is equally important. Uh as a department, it provides us with an opportunity to preserve and protect our ina and some of the most important and precious and irreplaceable lands on our island. This creates a welcome balance in our work as it allows us to keep the country country so to speak and to keep the city city. Uh this is a passion program for us um all of us. And so again, I want to just thank you for the opportunity to share these stories today. On the financial side, uh the department assumed jurisdictional responsible for the clean water and natural lands fund just two years ago on July 1st, 2023. When we look at the history of the fund, uh during its first 10 years from 2010 to 2020, the fund had completed approximately 12 transactions. It totaled around $35 million of investment and it protected approximately 1340 acres of really important lands. Um this is an average of a little over one transaction a year and an average transaction size of approximately 112 acres and $3 million respectively. When the department resumed responsibility of the fund in July 2023, you can go to the next slide. I get a click. There it is. Um there were five transactions uh outstanding in the pipeline and these pended pending transactions were originated between 2019 and 2022. The department is now completing these pending transactions which total approximately $14 million and they'll protect approximately $196 acres of land. So on an average transaction size, it's again one transaction a year with an average transaction size of 40 acres. uh and $2.8 million respectively. Over the last two years since assuming responsibility for the fund, DHLM has originated two transactions totaling 172 acres and 16.7 million. Again, this rep represents an average of one transaction a year with an average transaction size in this instance of 80 acres and $8.4 million. Um I'd like to just point out a couple of things. One is these transactions take a significant amount of time to complete uh for a number of reasons. A just standard due diligence matters, the counterparties that we're working with that we don't control um being at the mercy of the land court for instance. U but also these transactions are highly complex. Conserv conservation easements to preserve land uh run into perpetuity. So when we're structuring transactions that will last forever, we want to make sure we get it right. That's really important to us and Deputy Tashner, Deputy Director Tashner has been leading an effort over the last year and a half or so, completing a top- down review of all the city's conservation easement documents to make sure that we've got appropriate amendments and making u appropriate adjustments to those important documents. If we look at the current balance of the fund, um there's there's approximately >> Can I have that page? >> Pardon me. If we look at the current balance of the fund, there is approximately u $35 million in existing portfolio balance. The fund receives 1 half of 1% of real property tax annually. That totals between eight and $9 million. Um the current balance of the fund as I indicated when when the department um assumed jurisdictional authoriz author authority for the fund there was a c CIP balance of fiscal year 25 of 25 million and a fiscal year 26 balance of 29 million. So obviously quite a number of years of of funding had accumulated in in the fund. Um, we have pending projects totaling 14 million as we as we just mentioned. Uh, 14 million of that's encumbered. We have pending projects of 17 million that are that are unencumbered. So, the total availability after of the fund after pending projects is approximately $37 million. So, we have a we have a good ward chest there to work with to seek um opportunities as we move forward. Let me take it there. Deputy Tashner will uh we'll resume. >> Can I have this? >> Oh, and all the way we went back in time. >> Okay. Okay. So, now that we're done with the portfolio, I'd like to move on to the clean water and natural lands program. So, when the Blangiardi administration took over, there was no clean water and natural lands program. There were zero employees. And since then, we're really proud to have hired some really talented staff. Bri and Tam are here with us today. Um, and through the recent reorg, we created the conservation office so that the clean water program will forever be a part of the city. As part of establishing the program, we hired a consultant to assist with the creation of a logo and branding. And the uh it's up on this on the slide now, but it's a graphic depiction of Npaka Kuahibi, the mountain, and the Nalpaka Kohakai, the beach uh flowers, which are known for their half flower appearance and are depicted together to symbolize the clean water and natural lands program's mission of conservation of both land and water within the city. Prior to the Blanchard administration, clean water was only used as an acquisition fund. However, that is only half of the conservation equation. Once the land is acquired, there is a perpetual responsibility to steward the land to ensure that the conservation values endure. When I started in 2021, all we got was a filing cabinet of all the old acquisition files. And as we went through them, we quickly realized although we have an annual monitoring obligation, no one had been doing it. So, we hired our first ever program manager and we started going to each of the sites, all 12, um, that year. And it's a practice that we continue today, developing relationships with the land owners and ensuring that the conservation values are met. Recognizing that stewardship is an important and critical component to the life cycle of conservation transactions, we drafted language to amend the charter to expand the permitted use of the clean water and natural lands fund. The amendment was approved by the voters and now we have dedicated stewardship funding for all clean water sites. Under the clean water program, we have initiated new stewardship projects, including installing symbolic fencing and signage and training golf course staff at the Kahuku Golf Course about the UK, which are shorebirds that nest in the ground. These types of projects will ensure that the city responsibly stewards the lands that we own and which were purchased with the Clean Water and Natural Lands Fund. We are always grateful for an opportunity to share more about this program and so we're very happy to be here today with thisformational briefing to share about the program, the fund and all of the really really good work that is happening. Um we've been making similar presentations. We recently presented with the state legacy lands uh commission and the counties of Maui, Hawaii, and Kauaii at the Hawaii Con. Uh the presentation was called Show Me the Money. Um and we also uh presented to the economic revitalization commission to do a focus on potential a use of the clean water and natural lands fund. Um our staff regularly attend work days with community partners to build relationships um and to build the program. The program would be nothing without its partners and we are very pleased to work with uh in collaboration with other city departments. Um, in the interest of time, I won't read out all of the items on the slide, but um, there is a lot of really good collaborative work happening. We're also working with other federal, state, and counties to ensure that our program, uh, is is strong and that we're adopting best practices. And we work most closely with our conservation site partners. In most cases, the city owns a conservation easement, so we don't own the land. We work with the land owner to ensure that the conservation values are met. Um we are joined here today by with uh by Olu Campbell and the Hawaii land trust. He'll speak after me. Um I've also saw I think I saw Elizabeth Riley and Kendrick on the phone from Liverable Malui. We work very closely with our conservation partners and so I've listed them on these slides and the the sites that we partner with them on. Finally, you know, we're we're joining a lot of community partnerships to uh just continue to grow the program and to grow uh our role in this conservation ecosystem. And finally, I will close with a little bit of uh insight into what's happening next. Um, when we took over the program, there was a pre-application and a nine-page application which required that many of the studies, appraisals, surveys, title reports, environmental reports, um, they had to be submitted upfront. These studies can be super expensive. Um, and it's it's a lot of cost if and you might not even get an approved project. So as we began developing relationships with our project partners, we asked them for feedback and across the board they all recommended that we needed to streamline the application and lower the barrier to entry. So we overhauled the application process which you can now begin by simple by submitting a simple inquiry form and the QR code is on the screen. At that point, our clean water team will meet with the applicant, discuss their proposal, and these upfront meetings help us strengthen the application so that when they are finally submitted officially on our new three-page form, they are ready for evaluation and qualification. Since assuming the program in 2023, we have received over 20 inquiries and we have received two formal applications. Um because of the new process where our team is involved early, we're able to process and qualify these applications in a much shorter amount of time and because we don't require the studies up front, the clean water program can often assist with funding the pre-acquisition studies, which was another request made by our program partners. We are also increasing our stewardship of previously acquired lands. So, one of the things we're really excited about um is that we are preparing the city's first ever conservation plans for the lands that we own in fee that were acquired by the clean with the clean water fund. We're also using the fund to install signage at sites to acknowledge the land and to protect the conservation values and to put an example of some of the proposed signage up on the screen. um that in those are for uh just to show that the clean water money our taxpayer dollars have been invested to protect these places and also to to um you know warn against activities that could be harmful. Finally uh we will continue to hold malama ina days to promote the clean water program and to build uh relationships. We have several transactions uh that are upcoming. Um we are ready to close Pico Ridge whatever the land court is ready. All of our documents have been submitted, all of our funding has been submitted into escrow. Um we are also gearing up to close Palawai and Wakali later this year and early next year. Really really exciting landscape opportunity um in in Monowi. We also are expecting a new application from Puhonua Oupe. Um, OHA has submitted a voluntary landowner letter and so we're really excited for that partnership and we we we meet with them every two weeks. Um, and I think they're oh and they expect to get their application in later this month. So excited about that. A lot of good things coming down the pipeline. And in closing and we just like to share a brief video which kind of uh shows the essence of clean water. It's it's city it's the city council community partners partnering together to restore land. No sound. [Music] together. [Music] And so with that, that is our presentation. We put uh a QR code so you can get to our website, get more information. We also put the contact information for our staff. Thank you. >> Thank you. Before we go into Q&A, I'd like to actually call up Olu Campbell, uh, president CEO for the Hawaii Land Trust to give his presentation before we have uh questions uh from the council members. Aloha. Um, check your members of the committee. My name is Olu Campbell. I have the privilege of serving as the president and CEO of Hawaii Land Trust. I was asked by our chair to come and provide a a perspective on this program from a partner organization who regularly works with the Clean Water Natural Lands Program and their team. um to do that and you know to really explain why you know our perspective on this matter even matters just going to give you a little bit of context on our organization. So Havi Land Trust is Havaii's local islandswide nationally accredited land trust. We focus on protecting stewarding and cultivating reciprocal relationships with aa that help to sustain Havi and and also to really you know contribute to meaningful solutions to our community's most pressing systemic challenges. We do that across three areas uh three three a priorities our bioultural ecosystems food systems and our comina and local communities areas that we feel like have the capacity to support the most impactful reciprocal relationships between our people and our aina and we do that through three different key operational strategies. there are land transactions and that's where we work most closely with our uh the clean water natural lands team but also our ina stewardship work along with our ina based community programs and we do that all across the pyina here in Hawaii um turning to the clean water natural lands program we've worked with this program in a number of specific projects and I just have a few examples of those here on the screen so we have Mount Aila Hel complex which is a property that we now own and self steward along with a number of community partners out in Hula Um this is Haki Puulo ealo which is a conservation easement that we hold over another land owner's lands and they do uh farming and these are a couple projects that we have in the pipeline working with the clean water natural lands team on uh not exactly sure for this particular project while Kalua fish pond on the exact closing details and if the clean water natural lands funds will eventually be used in the final purchase but as of right now we're still working with the clean water natural lands team on this project here uh along along with the two projects in Mount Aili that um deputy director Tashner mentioned a little while ago um Palawaii along with Makali and so these are just you know we're regularly working with the clean water natural lands team on a weekly basis um our transactional team is in regular contact on the details um from due diligence to drafting easement documents to closing transactions all those things working handin-hand with the clean water natural lands team uh and so you know I just wanted to highlight a few opportunities let's um that we see from our perspective in working with this program. I first just want to underscore the importance of the program um from a landscape perspective across this um field. There are not very many programs dedicated to land acquisition um in in the conservation, natural resource, agricultural spaces. Um each of the counties here in Hawaii has their um equivalent of the clean clean water natural lands program. The state um department of land and natural resources has the legacy lands program. At a federal level, there's just only a handful of programs really focus on this. There's from some programs through USDA for agricultural lands. The forest service has forest legacy program for forest lands. The DoD has their programs that you know relate to the interests of the DoD. And in on the private sector in terms of private philanthropy, private foundations, there's really just one major foundation that is like entirely focused on supporting this land transactional work in here here in Hawaii. There are other local foundations that support the work on a kind of a case- by case basis, but it's not their primary focus. And so, you know, the Clean Water Natural Lands Fund is one of very few programs that's really focused on land acquisition, conservation easement acquisition. Um, and as a result, it's a really essential program to making sure that these types of projects here on Oahu are feasible. Um, particularly the larger projects. You know, we can fundra for smaller projects using grassroots philanthropy, looking for individual donations of smaller amounts, but when we're looking at landscape scale projects, looking for millions of dollars to really have significant impact in the communities that we serve, there's only a few options and they're really these public programs including clean water natural lands fund. So, I just want to really underscore the importance of this program and the capacity that it has to have significant impact in the communities here. Um, when it comes to funding for the program, as as the the department here mentioned, you know, there's a significant amount of funds currently in that pot and that's really important because it does position us to make significant steps towards a major projects. Um the challenge that we have often in working with not only this program but other government programs is that you know projects require more than just acquisitions funding. It it's it it requires everything from the staff capacity, the due diligence funding, um the capital for the closing cost. Like it's a really it's it's a it's a broader budget than just the price of the land itself. And so it's really important that you know to the extent that these types of programs can support that diversity of project budget needs like that is really helpful. Um there are just a few organizations in Hawaii who are fully dedicated to doing doing these types of land transactions. It's basically Hawaii Land Trust Trust for Public Lands who have dedicated staff doing this every single day. Um the Nature Conservancy I believe has one person here and then other organizations engage with the programs on a kind of case by case basis but they don't necessarily have that dedicated staffing. Um we have an abundance of inquiries that are you know have the potential to be really impactful projects. We get them all the time including referrals from members of this council. um we do not like the organizations working in this space do not have the staff capacity to move all the potential projects forward uh in the time that they need to be moved forward. Um we have two full-time staff that work on this. Um one of them was here earlier today but unfortunately had to leave. Trust Republic Lands has a a handful of staff. There's we we have a pipeline that's like 30 plus projects, you know, inquiries deep. We're working on about 11 active projects right now. There's so much need. I I fielded three additional inquiries just this week. Two of which were from Hawaii Island, one of which was from Oahu. It's a constant pipeline and the number of community members who are interested in doing this type of work is just growing and so we just get more and more inquiries for this type of work and it's just it's just more than we can support in terms of our staff. So to the extent that you know programs like this have an opportunity to support those broader costs that can enable that those dollars in the account to move quicker um that could be very um helpful. Uh I also want to mention just like quick capital. So, you know, acquisitions, they they need to be timely. Land private land owners who are looking to sell their lands, they have a timeline, right? And unless we can meet that timeline, a lot of times those opportunities are lost. And in some cases, those opportunities are lost for like generations. And so, when land owners put up significant important lands for our community up for sale or they're even willing to consider that potential, we need to be able to move on those things quickly. And unfortunately, it's really hard to have quick capital um to support those things. and and as a result, we see a lot of projects just pass through because we're just not able to move quick enough. Um flexible timelines. These projects are complex. We've had projects on other islands that we've been working on for literally over a decade. Um and it's just, you know, the interests of land owners vary. The capacity of communities who are working with in partnership to try to close these transactions vary. And so flexibility is really essential to ensure that we can you know we can ride those waves and we can eventually get to a place where these transactions can close. We have some transactions to be fair that can close very quickly. Other transactions like I said they take many years and so to have the flexibility of these programs that are supporting the transactions financially and enabling us that flexibility to move at the speed of trust with the communities is really important. Um stewardship um director uh sorry deputy director Tashner mentioned stewardship really important function you know closing a transaction just really brings you to the start line of perpetual relationship with place and that perpetual relationship has tremendous financial needs in some cases and having the support um from the clean water natural lands fund for stewardship is really important. I think it's also important that the city really balances those interests. Like I said there's not very many funds available for land acquisition. uh there's a lot more funding sources available for stewardship and programming. So to the extent that you know these things could at some point become competing uses, I think it's really important for the city to kind of balance those interests out appropriately. Um there's also opportunity to do multiple different types of funding opportunities through this fund. A lot of this funding has been going out through grants for things like land acquisition. There's also opportunities in my opinion to to do these things through contracts. Um and it kind of relates to one of the other points uh the next point about partnerships. What we see in this sector all across the ina space is that there's there's so much need to do better stewardship of aa but there's not enough capacity. organizations across the islands doing ina stewardship work are trying their best with limited capacity and there really needs to be system strategies collaborative capacity strategies employed to do more with the limited resources that we have and that's where partnership and other types of funding um opportunities comes into place I'll give you one example of that that we're working on with the city right now um conservation easements which the city holds and a few other organizations across holds is a is a fairly unique thing and it requires a very specific type of knowledge and expertise to do conservation easement monitoring, compliance, and enforcement. Hawaii Land Trust is unique where we have 55 conservation easements. So, by necessity, we've had to build that capacity in house. And so right now we're working on a pilot project with the city where we're helping to provide contract stewardship monitoring support for one of the city's easements as a model where we can you know take some income from the city that we can aggregate capacity in our organization for that really unique function and then we're able to provide that support to other organizations who need that that support. Um so that's one example of a shared capacity strategy and I think there's a lot more opportunity to consider similar strategies for these types of programs. Um, and last but not least, additional purposes. Like the purposes of the fund currently are really, really important. I think there's other purposes that the fund could be that they're very closely connected that the fund could be ex uh expanded to, and those include things like fire mitigation, climate adaptation, and so forth. And so that uh concludes my presentation. Happy to take any questions. >> Thank you. And members, I know we all have a lot of questions for uh the deputy directors. So, if you don't mind, I'd like for uh Olo to stay up there and we just ask questions for him first before we bring up DM because DM is going to take a long time, I would think. So, can we just start off first? So, first of all, thank you for your coming here and thank you for your partnership with the city as well as uh what you just mentioned with regard to providing capacity not only to the city but also to other uh community- based organizations. Uh if you look u at slide 10 of DM's presentation, can they put that up on the screen please? Slide 10. It has to do with uh where um where the city has conservation sites in play and um while they're putting it up um can I ask you do you have within a hilt do you have an Oahu designated officer? >> Uh we don't designate our staff by by island. We used to do that but what we found was that it's really important for us to work based on you know significant areas of expertise and significant relationships with the people who are on the ground and so we do it that way. >> Sure. And I'm going to ask this of course to the city as well, but as if you look at the um concentration of where the current um sites are uh or our our portfolio, it's certain it's certain it's it's um largely in both council member W's district as well as my own. And it is probably because a lot of the community-based organizations in these areas are very active. But having said that, you know, we're all about just equitable distribution of city funds. And if you look at the map, my colleagues here, everybody who's sitting here uh could use some projects in their district because they're only making inroads coming around Maku around there. But both council member Waters as well as um council member dosantis Tam, council member Cordiero, council member Okimoto and there is nothing on the Hawaii coast and any place in the district. So I guess my question to you is um what what is the challenge? Um, can you guys kua by um knowing that and uh perhaps uh you you know you talked about um leveraging and leveraging is also looking at underserved communities. So my question to you is has your staff looked at how you can partner with community- based organizations in these areas so they can have projects too? >> Yes, we have. Um, and we've actually we do have um if you go on our Hilt website and look at our list of projects, we do have projects that are in YNI and EVA. Um, they've just never been closed using this particular funding source. And that could be for a variety of reasons to no fault of of the the program itself. It just could have been a timing issue or a funding availability issue. But, you know, we've worked with folks like Mao Farms do multiple projects on the Yani Coast, Kahumana Farms. Um, we have a large uh conservation easement in the kind of like the Palhoa area. And so yeah, there's the potential to do a lot more in those areas for sure. Um there's a lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration like um land availability. Certain districts have a lot of stateowned land or federal owned land and obviously you know that makes it less likely that these projects will happen. Um land owner willingness is also something that you know we need. We can't close a project unless the current land owner is either willing to sell or put an easement on it. And so to the extent that you know certain districts might have more willingness for what one whatever reason that's probably another factor. And then the community partner side like you said um Cherokee Aina is really important. The vast majority of the transactions that we close are to support a place-based community organization to have more agency over the ANA in their community. On occasion we'll support we we'll step in as a landowner partner and work with a place-based stewardship organization. Um but if we don't have that community partner who has the capacity to walk with us in partnership through these programs then it becomes a bit challenging as well. >> Thank you so much members. Any questions? Council member Cordero. >> Thank you chair. Just really quickly. Mahalo Olu. Thank you very much for uh the work and especially giving the feedback to my communities as well as well as council member Kina who uh gave feedback. Um, in a summary, uh, for organizations that are looking to start up or maybe partner with, uh, with Hawaii Land Trust or even apply for Clean Water Natural Lands Fund program funds. Uh, what do you suggest succinctly um that they have prepared before jumping in because, you know, we don't want to go through all this and say, "Oh, no, it can't work." >> Yeah. Um, honestly, we we recommend people come to us sooner than later. So, even if they don't even have a nonprofit organization found founded, for example, or incorporated, um, but they're, you know, very passionate about whatever whatever it might be in their community, they feel like there there could be an opportunity, we always just ask people to come and talk story with us and and, you know, if we feel like there's the potential to explore it more, we'll go and do that. And then you know oftentimes we'll figure out along the way that you know it's not going to work for this reason or it might work for these reasons and then we'll kind of move forward on that basis. And then every single one of the transactions we do is very very case by case. So in one transaction you know a placebased nonprofit organization might have certain type of capacity, skill set, expertise, financial capacity. And so in that situation the transaction might go a certain way. In another situation an organization might be very focused on a certain type of program or cultural practice. and they might not um for example be situated to be a large land owner and that transaction will look very different and so we just ask people to come to us let's have good conversations and then we'll figure it out. >> Thank you and thank you again for speaking uh talking story with my communities in IA >> anytime. >> Thank you. Mahalo. >> Thank you. And um the next is uh Council Member Tupola. And I just want to flag for everyone that we are nearing 12:30. We do have a 1:00. So uh maybe this will be the last question for um for Hilt and then we're going to move on to DM. >> Yeah, I'll be fast. Thank you so much for your presentation. Thanks for your work. Um I've never met with you about any parcels and I think the majority of my questions are going to be some of the very good um points that you raised about how we could help people who are interested. So, I just am going to save those questions for DHLM as far as responding on how we can use it because a few years ago, we changed the Clean Water Natural Land Fund to allow for some infrastructure as opposed to just acquisition, which could address some of what you brought up. But I also wanted to kind of set the record straight that just because there's no circles on the west side doesn't mean we don't have any active community groups. We have tons and I've had multiple sitdowns with DHLM about um doing projects out there. So, I will save my questions for them. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, we're going to move forward. Thank you so much for being here. Olu, >> can we have uh deputy director? And I will start with council member Tupola. >> I'll be brief. Um yeah, I just I feel like we sat down and we talked with the Eton family about the what and Eva um by Haka. I mean, it's kind of by Wai right now, but I didn't see any progress there. You said you were going to get like a spreadsheet of what we needed to fill out. I mean the Macaha um Hao up in the valley they've actually asked. So I don't really know where all the pieces lie but I feel like I've tried multiple times to like insert ideas community projects um preserving around Hao that are in my community and I've gotten nowhere. So tell me where what I'm missing. No, I I thank you for bringing those to us. Those are some of the inquiries that we uh referenced. And so in all cases, if anyone has even an inkling of interest in applying to the clean water and natural lands program, we recommend that they go to our website and submit an inquiry form. It's a simple like one pager where you kind of give us an idea of what it is and then our staff will sit down and help you structure the deal. >> So in the event that we did that and we had a meeting with you and you said that you were going to give us information about what we needed to do next, what are we also missing? Uh I I can follow up, but I I believe that I did follow up with them with the uh application at that time. >> Okay. I will follow up with you and with them as well. I mean, I do think that there's a handful that we really want to see happen, and I don't understand where the the stuck points are, but I'm glad we're clarifying this. Thank you, Chair Waters. >> Thank you. Um according to your testimony, the basic process is that DHLM accepts the application. You do a preliminary review, then send it over to the advisory commission who then advises for approval or not to the council. Then the council approves and then department of housing and land management does its due diligence. Right. >> Correct. And I'm looking at the charter section 9-204 subsection 8. It reads, "The Department of Land Management shall receive proposals for the use of funds in the Clean Water and Natural Lands Fund and shall submit qualified proposals to the advisory commission established pursuant to subject subsection 9, which shall make recommendations to the council for approval." So, I'm thinking the due diligence should occur before it goes to the commission based on what I'm reading here. So, what what you're currently doing to me does not comport to what the charter says. >> What DHLM does is we receive the applications and then we qualify them. The qualification process looks at does this meet the fund requirements. Are there is there a voluntary seller? Is there a voluntary land owner? At that point, then we push it over to the advisory commission. Due diligence in all cases follows the funding approval. Um, and that that's when we go through, you know, evaluation of the city's acquisition of a real estate interest. We do the the title work. We do the surveys. negotiate with the land owner or with the land trust to put together a management plan, a basement u a baseline plan um and the conservation easement if that's if it's the acquisition of a CE interest. >> No, I understand that. But to me, you're supposed to do the due diligence before it goes to the commission and before it comes to us. Cuz what what ends up happening in many cases is that the community has this expectation that once the council approves it that it's done. And of course, as you know and we all know that it can take years for DM, THLM to do due diligence. That's one problem I see. The second problem is as with one of the proposals, I think it's [Music] you're asking us to approve somewhere between 10 and 16 million. It's like a blank check, right? That you're asking us to approve when you you haven't done your due diligence yet. And to me as elected officials in charge of this fund and this money, I feel like we're not doing our job if we're just saying you can spend up to 16 million without doing the due diligence first. So in in many respects, it's almost like putting the cart before the horse, especially when the charter doesn't really authorize you to do it that way. So let me ask you this. There is a question here. What authorization are you relying on to put due diligence last instead of first? Is there a statute ordinance or certainly not in the charter? >> The the section that you're referencing in the charter relates to the receiving of applications. In all cases, due diligence follows the approval. Part of that um is >> but what authorizes you to do it that way is my question. I know you're doing it that way, but what authorizes you to do it that way? Because if you look later in the charter, section 11, the council shall by ordinance establish other procedures for the administration and expenditure of monies in each fund consistent with this section. So, is there an ordinance currently on the books that authorizes you to change the order of how this should go? Again, the section that you're referencing is about processing the applications, not about structuring the due diligence transaction. If we were to do the due diligence upfront, yeah, it would um it would completely change the tenor of applications. Uh I >> which is >> one of the first things that we did was we listened to our partners. We listened to TPL. We listened to Hilt. The prior application requested that the applicants come and with all their due diligence up front. Um and that was usually at a significant cost which the the the community in most cases cannot bear. If we do all that work upfront um it it it would hamper and in some cases probably have a chilling effect on conservation transactions. >> I what Campbell testified to was was persuasive in in that you need the flexibility because these lands don't often come up and you want to to do it as quickly as possible. what the fact of the matter is your department is taking three four years sometimes. So, you know, that that's a problem. But again, >> in some cases, >> I guess I'm asking again, what authorizes you to do the due diligence last? Is there an ordinance that that that gives you that authority? >> I I believe that we are authorized under the charter to clean water and natural land. >> We shall submit qualified proposals to the advisory commission. Like I think what I'm what I'm hearing is you just determine first whether or not it fits one of the one of the looks like seven um reasons, right? protection for significant watershed lands, preservation of significant forests, public outdoor recreation and education, preservation of historic culturally important lands, protection of So, sounds like you're making that determination first, then going to the commission. I mean, so what's the commission's role here, right? they just kind of go, "Yeah, that seems to fit one of these seven things, right?" I mean, you're not really utilizing the commission if you ask me. >> Yeah. Chair, just a a couple of comments respectfully. >> Sure. >> We've only had jurisdictional authority over the fund for the last two years. So, it doesn't take us four years to do due diligence. We haven't had the fund that long, right? We've only had it for two years. So let's let's keep that in mind you know as we structure those transactions. >> Well how long the second comment I would make >> for the Monowilly for the Monowilly project. We approved that years ago under our >> jurisiction kai years ago >> not under our jurisdiction and so we're working through those projects now they have they might have legal issues like Pico Ridge you know that we're waiting for the land court. There are issues outside of our control. Chair Waters >> I would respectfully ask you to recognize that. Okay. >> Yeah. The second thing is common sense >> forward though. >> Common sense says that you want to know you have a deal before you go out and spend a lot of money on due diligence. It's like any other real estate transaction. Respectfully, right? And so we want to understand that. We want to know that we've got the nexus of a deal before we go out and we spend a lot of taxpayer money on something that may not happen because there may be a misunderstanding. >> Exactly. >> That you should have the deal done before you come to the council. before we come to the council. Look, Chair Waters, you know, we're h I think that's one of the reasons we're having this dialogue, right? If there are ways that we can improve this program or the process in order to get more transactions done faster, we're completely open to that and we'd love to sit down with you and collaborate and figure out how we can do that. >> Well, simple. Get the deal done before you come to the council is my point. >> I see. Okay. So, we wrap it all up and then package it and come to you for an approval. >> Yep. Then it when we approve it, it's done. >> Can we can we walk through that? >> We'll discuss that. We'll come back to you for sure. >> Okay. Well, we're authorized to to to do an ordinance that does exactly that. So, >> that's what I think we should do. >> So, thank you. >> Appreciate that input. >> Thank you. Um members, any other questions? Okay, we're going to try to wrap this up then. First of all, I want to thank you guys for coming. Oh. Oh. All Yes. Sure. Sorry, I definitely don't want to speak for the department on this, but I can speak to our own process and how we've dealt with this kind of situation. Um, because like like they've said, it's it doesn't make sense to go through a really extensive due diligence process unless you have some kind of at least a tentative assurance that the thing has the potential to close. Um, and at the same time, the decision makers want to make sure due diligence is done properly before they allocate the funding. And so when we do it internally at Hawaii Land Trust, we have a two-step process. And so we'll field initial inquiries, make sure they meet kind of like our minimal threshold as a project that we might even consider. Then we take it to our board for decision-m, giving them the opportunity to tentatively move the project from an inquiry to an active project where we're approved to expend those resources to go through the due diligence process. And then once the due diligence is complete, we knowing that our board has already bought into the general philosophy of the project, we come back to our board for a final approval at which point they say yes, you can go and spend X number of dollars to close the deal. And so that's how we've kind of negotiated this this balance between um making sure that the the due diligence funds are spent wisely and not wasting our time or the resources. >> Thank you. Um we're going to come to closure on this umformational briefing. I just wanted to thank both testifiers for DHLM on the slide 22 for the governmental agencies. As you know, I know uh DoD has their own restrictions, but the readiness and environmental protection integration program has been very very active in the last couple of years. Um, and I'm actually working uh with them to hopefully have a I think it's called a cooperative agreement with City and County Honolulu. And um I'm hoping to work with various agencies. And so you're just making me think that we should be inclusive of your your agency in this process. So you should put it under governmental agencies. And and a lot of what u Chair Waters is talking about has to do with the charter. And I just want to remind you that the charter commission is soliciting comments uh not just from council members but the general public as well as um the city agencies. So if there are flaws or um proposals for improvement in the processes that the um uh chair waters was u alluding to then it you also have the discretion to be making those re recommendations. And I would also say that to Olu as well for nonprofit organizations to be making uh recommendations to this provision or any other provision in the UN the the commission charter. So thank you again and look forward to meeting oneon-one um with Bri and Cam. uh welcome to the program and I know that if you work with us and help us with information and social graphics, all of us can help in getting the word out in our communities and hopefully the next time you come, we're going to see um dots all over the map in all of our districts. Thank you so much. Oh, I'm sorry. Is there anybody here to testify on thisformational briefing in person? >> Chair, there are none >> and none on um none online. Correct. >> We have two online. >> Two online. Oh, I'm so sorry, Elizabeth. Elizabeth, let's start with you. >> Please proceed. >> Thank you so Yes. Thank you so very much. real quick for the sake of time. I just wanted to thank um I want to be very very clear that our community would not have been able to protect all the landscapes almost 600 acres worth of very important land had it not been for this fund. Um, more specifically, real quick, um, I'm engaged in that Pico Ridge, um, transaction, and I have to let you know behind the scenes while we wait for Lancport, which was a surprise to us. Um the department was wonderful with working on uh dotting every eye, crossing every tea and doing everything that our organization had asked so that we are ready to close just as soon as the land court doc comes back. Um and I really appreciate that. So, I wanted to to just kind of hollow that out as well as um it truly is a partnership and without a doubt working with them is very empowering for the community. Um for our community at least it has been. So, uh thank you so much. I'm here as a resource anytime in the future um for any other organization to share how we've done what we've done. But thank you so very much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you, Elizabeth. And uh thank you for what you're doing for the community. I I take it Kendrick Chang is not online. Is that correct? >> That's correct, Chair. >> Okay. Uh Angela Melody Young, please proceed. We can't hear you. Okay. If there's a problem, I I can't hear you, Angela. Anyway, listen. Thank you for your presence. Uh, I'm going to be closing this hearing. This meeting is adjourned. [Music] [Music] [Music]