indivisible with liberty and justice. >> All right. Thank you everyone. >> My phone is talking to me. Sorry. All right. Uh first up is open forum. Individuals may address the council about any item not contained on the regular agenda. A max of 10 minutes is allowed for the forum. I apologize. Hold on one sec. Sorry about that. If the full 10 minutes are not needed, we will um continue with the agenda and if additional time is needed, we will continue after um other business on the agenda. So, the council will take no official action on items discussed at the forum with the exception of referral to staff or commission for future report. So, we have one person on open forum, Joey Rodriguez. Can you come to the podium and state your name and address, please? My name is Joey Rodriguez. I live in 21909M Parkway, Rogers, Minnesota. Uh, thank you for having me today, councils. Uh, so today I greatly appreciate the Three Rivers Parks District and what they've done the past 10 years and the growth. Uh, I believe that public safety and public access uh is absolutely matters. Um, and with that, uh, I don't believe that some of the or I don't visibly see the changes that they've done to our community. I feel like we've been left out a bit since we're on the edges of the district. Um, but have been visible was them allowing to have a wastewater treatment plant being planned next to a regional park. And with the growth of our city, I've seen the decline in budget for police parks, the park police. uh especially with our growth in Rogers, I don't believe the budget should be decreased for that uh particular public safety. But with the presentation today, I hope to understand a bigger broader scope of what they've done to our community and uh thank you for coming and doing this presentation. >> Thanks, Joey. >> All right, we'll move on to presentations. So, we have two today. Um, March Beard from the Three Rivers Parks is coming to She's our commissioner for this area. So, welcome March. >> Great. Thank you. Can you hear me? This is right. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Uh, mayor, staff, visitors, I appreciate the opportunity to, uh, share a little bit about the Three Rivers. Be back again before you to share about Three Rivers. So, first of all, I'd like to just start by setting the table. So the mission for Three Rivers is to promote environmental stewardship through recreation and education in a natural resourcesbased system. So the focus of Three Rivers is really to have nature-based parks. Uh as an example, one of the things you won't find in Three Rivers parks are ball fields. Ball fields tend to be city or municipal responsibilities and we really have uh nature baked naturebased parks a little more in line with um maybe what state parks would be. So click. So a little bit of who we are. So the park district was established in 1957 by an act of the state legislature. We're actually a standalone local unit of government. We're run by a board of seven commissioners. There are five commissioners who are elected. I serve in one of the elected roles. I've represent 20 cities in western Henipin County, including the residents of Rogers. We have two appointed commissioners that are appointed by the Henipin County Board. Our district includes suburban Henipin County. So, just what it sounds like. It's Henipin County with the exception of Minneapolis because Minneapolis has their own park board. And we have a long-standing multi-deade relationship with Scott County. So, if you're down in Prior Lake area, for example, you might see the Three Rivers uh logos on some of the the parks down there. It's a great relationship we have with them, and it really is a example of good government. We're able to take a lot of the administrative costs and spread them a little little more uh widely, a little more effectively. So, click We have 27 parks um park reserves. That's a lot. Most people visit one or two. Um, I hope today I would inspire you to maybe uh um get out and try try another one. We have 27,000 acres of land, which is the equivalent of about 42 square miles. We have 175 miles of regional trail. And regional trails are those trails that are typically found outside our parks. For the most part, they connect our parks with one another. They're easily recognizable. They're a 10- foot wide paved trail and they always have the yellow dashed line. So when you see the yellow dash line, you can tell that it's a three rivers trail versus maybe a a city trail. We have another 300 miles of trails within our parks. And those might be paved, they might be uh dirt trails. Um I'm a hiker. I like the dirt trails. So uh I I tend to to steer steer toward that type of trail. And really significantly, we get 16 million visits a year in the suburban Henipin uh area. Again, remember I told you we're outside of Minneapolis and 16 million visits is more than twice our state's population. So, it's really significant. So, everything we do is really nature-based. Just want to pause on that for a second. So, you see a a photograph of water. We one of the things we do is we hire over a 100 aquatic invasive species uh inspectors that inspect watercraft in and out of uh different bodies of water. We're second only to the DNR and the investment we make in that. We manage wildlife and I'm going to hold off on the bottom right picture because that's Crohassen and I'll talk about Crowhassen in a little bit. So click this is the year of the river. So you may have remembered two years ago we had the year of bugs and two years before that we had the year of birds. So when we have a year with a theme we do a lot of programming educational uh throughout the year we bring in speakers. We have some speakers who wrote books. And the reason we picked rivers this year is this is the 100th anniversary of a government survey of the number of fish that were on the in the Mississippi River outside of Minneapolis. So, I'll ask you, take a guess. How many fish did that survey find 100 years ago in the Mississippi River outside of Minneapolis? I'll give I'll give you the answer. >> Anyone want to guess? No, >> I'll give you I'm >> terrible at guessing. Anyone? >> Okay, the answer is zero. Okay, so that's how polluted the Mississippi River was 100 years ago, right? So, you can see now there's abundant fish. Sometimes there's fish we don't really want there because they're not native, but it it's really been a big turnaround. So, we're really celebrating rivers this year with our education. >> Look, let's face it. We just talked a lot about natural resources. Why do people come to Three Rivers? A lot of it is the recreation. So, we're wrapping up a successful winter season. We were lucky enough to have some natural snow this year. We do have two locations that manufacture snow. Uh Elm Creek as well as um Highland Park Reserve and Highland Hills. So, the skiers uh got a good opportunity. It's really important. Last year, you might remember, we had really no natural snow. And if it weren't for the Three Rivers uh manufactured snow locations, the high school teams would have had no place to go. And I think we all know we need to have good places for teens. So, we were very fortunate. They were able to uh continue to do their skiing and and ski races. Um summer recreation's beginning. The golf courses are open and all the driving ranges are open pretty soon. The swimming beaches will uh open and we kind of make that transition to to summer. Looking forward to that. So, click So, a little closer to home here, uh, with a focus on Rogers. Rogers is the home to Crow Hassen Park Reserve, and probably most people know that it is the gem natural resource park in our system. And it's really more than just our system, suburban Henipin County. It's the gem of the whole metro parks area. It's the largest restored prairie in the metro area. And if if you want to experience a prairie, if not for Crohassin, you'd really have to drive quite a ways, many hours away out to some of the state parks in uh south southwestern Minnesota. So, it's really a great uh great asset. And uh just a little history on Crow Hassan. So, it was 1969 that the park district embarked on restoring the the native prairie there. So 20 acres were restored in 1969 and now here in 2026 we have 820 acres of natural prairie restored there. We've done a lot of other work out at Crohassen to really make sure that we uh honor and continue to grow the natural resources. So, for example, in 1991, we introduced the bullsnake into the park and the bullsnake is a native snake and it is known for rodent control. So, they are particularly good snakes to have uh next to a suburban area because it kind of helps keep some of that population uh in natural check. Sure. Uh it was in like the late 50s and 60s they they bought land it we held the land and then it eventually became a park. Right. And that's pretty much how we do it now. There's some places we hold land and it eventually >> evolves into something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was one it was really a visionary uh to to hold that large of uh land for native um restoration. Right. It's good foresight. It's a good word. In 2026, we are embarking on another uh introduction of the blue carner butterfly. It's a little tiny butterfly and yes, it's blue and it is uh was native to Minnesota and it's not here anymore. It is in Wisconsin. The Wisconsin DNR did a whole program to uh bring the carer butterfly back there and we've been working in partnership with them. So, the blue carner butterfly eats lupine, right? So, the first thing we had to do about five years ago is really increase our lupine uh plants in in uh Crohassin. And this year, we'll be bringing in the butterfly and really bringing it back. So, I'm sure there'll be a lot of fanfare when that when that happens because that's a big deal uh when we do introduce the species back into our parks. We've done it other places. Little uh FYI that when you see the trumpeter swans um uh anywhere in the metro area, they were introduced with a partnership between the University of Minnesota and Three Rivers at Carver Park. And it all started with a pair of trumpeter swans down in uh Carver Park. So when you see the trumpeter swan, you know that there was a local local connection to bringing that back. Continuing on on the trails again, the Crowa Crow River Regional Trail and the Rush Creek Regional Trail are the two east west trails. They have been uh marked on our maps and when they are approved uh when they get onto our maps, they also get onto um your city maps as well as the U Met Council maps. Again, it was foresight. So, those trails have been planned. They're sitting there. When you do your 2050 comprehensive plan, those trails will be there and you can kind of plan around them. uh when will they be developed? Well, trail corridors are developed in sections, right? We don't just build the 30- mile trail. We develop it as we are able to acquire the land. And for uh Rogers, that will be in combination when development moves across Rogers because the land will be become available, right? So, we go where where we can um acquire acquire land. The Diamond Lake Regional Trail runs from Dayton all the way down to Madina and uh um it just nicks in a little bit of Rogers comes close enough that uh we wanted to make sure that you're you're aware of that as well. Quick, but the most exciting thing that has happened in Three Rivers in about a decade is the opening of the Mississippi Gateway Regional Park. So you may know this park as the Rapids Dam Park. So, it was called that for decades. And about 10 years ago, we embarked on a a project there. It was kind of a sleepy park. It wasn't even really open year round. And yet, it was on one of the mighty rivers of the world. And we decided it it would be a great place to showcase the the Mississippi River. And uh the Gateway Center that you see the picture of there, that is the doubles as a visitor center as well as an education center or a nature center. You may been to other nature centers. So indeed there are animals when you go in there like you'd see in our other like you'd see in Eastman or some of the other nature centers. And then uh off the I'll go to the bottom right photograph. Uh off the gateway trail is the I'm sorry off the gateway center is the treetops trail and it's just what it sounds like. It's an elevated trail that's within the treetops. It goes out to a vista. Uh you can walk out there. There's some benches if people, you know, need to take a rest and you overlook the vista of I see nodding and you must have been there, Stacy, right? You look you over uh um overlook the vista of the the wetlands and uh I hear from the birders they really like it because they're a lot closer to to the birds, you know, when it's quiet. And then the top picture is the mini Mississippi. It's a water feature in front of the Gateway Center. When we were putting this together, part of the uh goal was to make sure that we could get kids and school groups into the Mississippi River to learn about it, to paddle it, to uh raft it, to embrace the river, and it's just it's a mighty river. It's it's too big for the little tiny tots. So, uh that is the purpose of the mini Mississippi. The kids adapted to it instantly. Uh there's a button they hit and water runs through it and flows. We capture some of the water that comes off the roof. It it it was really a hit with the kids. So, uh, I encourage you if maybe check it out. So, click and then, uh, just moving forward, we're always looking for opportunities to partner. We talked about just as we put trails and parks together, it takes approval from our board as well as, uh, uh, city councils. Uh, you heard I talked about the partnership at, you know, Scott County. We're always looking for ways to continue to work together with groups, government groups, and, uh, other community groups. And with that, I'll just say thank you so much for your attention. and I love to come talk about parks and I uh I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. Like here. Okay. >> Hi Joel. That's really >> informal reverse. >> Awesome. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. All right. >> Okay. Now we have a second presentation discussion with Karen McCraen, Hassan Area Historical Society. >> Welcome Karen. >> Hi, good evening. I'm Karen McCrasten and I'm with I'm the director of the Hassan Area Historical Society and we do business as the Rogers Hassan Historical Society. Um our or our organization started in 2008 when we were part of the Hassan Township and and before the merger of Rogers and Hassan. This evening I'm accompanied by some of my board members. Uh Roger Rosenfist who was a found one of our founding members, Ashley Hacker who is here and tonight Patrick Rup who is the president of the Hassan Historical or Hassanary Historic Historical Society will deliver a presentation. Um, we welcome all of you to come to the museum and explore the unique history of this community. Um, and learn about the community that you represent. Patrick, where are you? >> Thank you. Um, I have water. I have allergies and how that works. So, hopefully everybody can hear me. So, as Karen stated, we're the Hassan area Historical Society legally, but we go by Rogers Hassan Historical Society. As we merged and new families came into the town, our first question always was, where is Hassan? So, then the second question was, does Rogers have a historical society? So, we decided we would change that name. uh founded in 2008. We are a 501c3 and as Karen said, we have seven board members. I I don't know who's controlling the slide that we'll click on that. Um our mission statement is a H Rogers Hass Historical Society. We're a nonprofit educational association. We collect, preserve, and interpret the history of Rogers, Hassan Township, Fletcher, and surrounding communities. So, I'm going to talk a little bit about in the beginning as to what we've accomplished. And this is only a few highlights. We actually do a lot. Um, it's too much to actually talk about to be honest with you. But some of the main things that we do is we digitize and catalog thousands of photos and records. And you think about thousands of photos, but you think about when people pass away and families, you know, collect everything and they send it to to us. Sometimes it comes in a manel envelope. Sometimes it comes in two boxes. So it all has to be cataloged and digitized. Um we have preserved digitally over 80 oral histories via videos. Um we have multiple we've done multiple fundraisers for preservation. Um we do a lot of restoration within the local cemeteries. Um uh mainly the St. John Cemetery. Um we also do a lot of research for the early settlers um in family history. Some of those are requested by families. Some of those we just do um out of something that we we need the history for. Maybe it's a presentation or the tour of a cemetery tour or something. And then we proactively acquire documents and artifacts and we find those in all places from other historical societies to eBay. Um, the letter in the top right hand corner is an actual letter written in the 1880s by um, William Henry, who was actually the original owner of Henry Woods. Um, I found that on eBay at a antique shop, so you never know where you're going to find history at. Um, we also have adopted Woodman Hall Park and we constantly do uh, uh, federal grants. I'm sorry, financial grants. um click um as far as the education goes, some of the education that we do, we do guided tours, we do a St. John Cemetery tour that basically talks a lot about the founding members of this town. A lot of the members the founding members and I don't know if she's here or not. A lot of the founding members that are buried there are actually lived in the park that we just heard about. So, um we're working on a downtown Rogers tour now to kind of highlight some of the um historic buildings. Um, we do presentations to elementary schools. We've done presentations to the Lions Clubs, the seniors, and other historical societies. Um, we've had guest speakers, genealogologists. If you're interested in that, you can contact us. And local family historians that have came in and spoken. Um, our main source of outreach is our newsletter, Facebook page, and we also have an annual open house, which is August 27th this year. Everybody's invited. And of course the Rock and Rogers parade which we will be in this year's um one of the highlights for the preservations is we do a lot of the work in the restoring the St. John Cemetery. Um it a lot of the graves are in bad need of attention. Um we've done probably 30 odd headstones. Um there's some before and after pictures and it's it's can be an undertaking because some of those headstones just part of the headstone can weigh 500 lb. So you actually use a tripod. Um we've also uh replaced some lost Civil War headstones. We're currently doing a fundraiser for children's headstones. There are a lot of children buried in that cemetery. Uh six of them don't have headstones. Um and there it says there's 100 more headstones. I would say it's closer to 150 more headstones that need to be repaired. So, um, our education through outreach from social media is primarily Facebook. U, we have over 850 followers on any post. We can get over 100,000 views per month. Um, we post all our announcements there. We share photos, conversations, and promote events. And just overall it's a great community place to educate the community on the history of Rogers. And then of course we have our um newsletter which has a lot of the similar in it but it's sent out to many of you actually get it I believe and um the um historical society members. Um it has the society news events articles. We usually spotlight a piece of artifact that's in our collection. memorials. Unfortunately, we have we do talk about memorials and uh it's mailed out quarterly. Um current and future projects that we're working on, we will continue digitizing historical photos and documents because we have a lot of them. Um and then the cemetery and headstone preservation we continue to push and work on. Um it is a tedious process so it does take time. um financial grants. We have various projects for those. Um we're continually working on new downtown walking tour for Rogers. Um we have a preservation hot list which I'll touch on in a minute. Um we're also restoring an Indie family buggy that we was donated to us. I'll touch on that as well. And then we have some historical signage that we put together and we're continuing to expand on that I can talk about in a minute. Um we're also kind of um redoing our exhibition gallery. Um we've it's more in the infancy stage of that where we've collected so much um documents, photos, artifacts. We're you know we have a finite amount of room. So we're trying to re reorganize that and kind of make it presented a little bit more in a in a a user friendly fashion. Um, and then a 2027 calendar. We hope to have that out in the summer. It's a a calendar that highlights uh today and yesterday is what I believe the theme is. So, um the historical signage, we have art the artwork done for historical signs in Woodman Hall. We also have artwork done for the um historical signs for downtown Rogers. Um we're working on signage for the Rogers Thrashing Show. And then there's other list of potential historical landmarks and parks um that we're we're working on as well. So um restoring the family indie family doctor's buggy. Um that's a late 19th century buggy that was donated to us by Karen Bernell in April of 2025. Um the picture to the left is how we received it. The one in the middle is the state of it today and the one to the right is what we hope it looks like when we're done. um preservation hot list. This is something that we're really passionate about because once it's gone, it's lost forever. So when you remove something, it is gone. Um you will it will not come back. Um the St. John's Episcopal Church and Cemetery that's high on our list to preserve. Um that is where a large amount of the pre the original members before long before the road was ever put in. and it was a Native American trail and they're the members that came here and they lived near the Parlos, the Hawkins, I know I'm forgetting somebody. Um the Tuckers, the Tilton, they're all they're all buried there. Um and then the um through trust bridge, the railroad bridge from 1913. Um the railroad is who we are. That's why our new logo has a depot on it because without the railroad there would have been no Rogers. When James Hill came here, he bought the land from Rogers. if he from Thomas Rogers, if he decided to go south of Territorial Road, it would have be something else. So, um, and then the Tilton House, which is known now as Maple Leaf Farm, uh, we've been talking with the people that just purchased that and doing some history with them on that house and kind of putting together the actual history of the house. If you looked at the for sale, um, when it was for sale, it was showed that it was built in 1900. That must be a default because it was built long before that. But um it's very uh nice period house for that for that period. We believe it was built somewhere in the late 1860s. Um the Fletcher District buildings which the city's familiar with and has worked on for years and and preserving those. And then multiple downtown buildings in Rogers. You have um Deaggio's Pizza Building which was at one time a general store and post office. And you have the hot dog grooming I believe it's called. We believe that might be the oldest building in the city. Um you have the bank and then of course um the old Heinens's building. There's a lot of history there with those buildings. And just to highlight the preservation of the church and the cemetery, it was the first congregation in Rogers. At the time it was Hassan, of course. It was the oldest cemetery. Of course, it has the oldest burial. Um it has many of the original settlers. It has the first mayor, first and second postmaster, and has 20 28 veterans and many of the founding members. Um, it is national registry eligible. And with that, you would be able to gain capital grants and aid for upkeep. And that's my presentation. I want to thank everybody for allowing us to come in. And um, that is a picture of your original mayor, um, Edwin Wigan. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would you mind getting a picture with us? >> It's up to you. >> Yeah. We're gonna get >> I'll get in front. We'll get in front. We're short. >> You're in the window there. >> I am. You guys want to stand up? >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now we'll move on to approve agenda. Council members may add items to the agenda for discussion purposes or staff direction only. The council will not normally take official action on items added to the agenda. Does anyone have anything to add? Have a motion? >> I'll second. >> A second. All in favor? >> I opposed. All right, that motion passes. We'll move on to consent agenda. These items are considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of these items unless a council member so requests in which the in which event the item will be removed from the consent agenda and placed elsewhere on the agenda. Does anyone have anything to remove? >> All right to approve the consent agenda as presented. >> Okay, we have a motion. I'll second >> and a second. All in favor? >> I >> All right. Uh, that motion passes. >> Next up, we have a public hearing. Uh, 6.1, vacation of rightaway and drainage and utility easements related to North View Preserve, third edition. Forgot who is in charge of this. Is this you, Alec? Thank you, Mayor and Council. Before you tonight is a request for vacation of rightway and easements related to North View Preserve Development. If it'll switch for me. Oh, right. So, the site in question is is if you look at the right side of the screen, uh is starred there. Northview preserve was approved um initially in 2025. It was a one-phase development at that time. And then on the consent agenda, you had have just approved a third edition final plat um and a second edition pre-plat. So those are the Navy pension is a little bit confusing, but this is related to the third edition plat which is a replat of the the west uh a couple lots and then the blue bird ride ofway on the west side of the development. and just an aerial. So the second edition area of the pre-plat that was just approved is in that square. The original pre-plat is for the the 75 lot subdivision is uh the rest of the area. And then that third edition is right there covers uh lot one, block five, and then lot one and two and block six. Uh with that pre-plat it realigned the blue or with the final plat realigned bluebird way uh which leaves the underlined utility easements and right ofway still there. So we need to vacate those uh in order to for the the funnel plat to get recorded the way it is. Um the the plat itself the development plan is very similar. uh Bluebird way has not yet been constructed and that final utility uh stub to the west side of the boundary has not yet been constructed. Um so that is acting as a construction change um to the first phase plans and ultimately those the figures in the in the packet uh and in the resolution before tonight um for the Bluebird way original right ofway and then uh those DNU easements for those particular lots and this is a public hearing so staff does recommend the vacation of these um And there's a motion before you for the resolution attached to the packet. >> Okay. >> Any questions or comments so far? >> We'll get a motion to open the public hearing. >> I'll move to open the public hearing. Second. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? I. I. >> All right. Would anyone like to speak to this item? >> Can you orient us, Ale? >> Go back. This aerial here, Al. >> So, it's next to Sky Meadows. Is that correct? vacation. >> No. >> So, it's sandwiched between territorial and like wood lane. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, territorial wood lane is like the bounding north and south of that development. South territory. >> South territorial >> here. Wood lane here. And this is the little stub that being vacated. Would anyone like to speak to this item? All right, one more time. Would anyone like to speak to this item, >> the duplicity? With that, I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. >> I'll move to close the hearing. >> Second. >> All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? >> I >> I All right, that motion passes. And then I need a motion to vacate. Wait, where is the motion? >> Oh, vacate. Um, >> motion to approve. I just got one question, Alec, just for clarity for everybody. So, Bluebird way may still end up going through there. You just don't need >> So, the portion of that or >> the shift is so the Bluebird way stub will remain the same size. It'll just be shift to the south. So, it doesn't straddle the the Rabbonsorf in uh and the Gamach property. It'll be completely adjacent to the Gamach property. So it's the same width, the same plan to stub it to the edge of the boundary there so it can continue west as development occurs to the west. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Any questions or concerns? N >> I'll make a motion then to approve resolution 2026-36. >> Right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. Okay, that motion passes. All right. Okay. And now we will move on to general business uh to review and consider the Main Street master plan. Madame Mayor and Council, uh, this item is one we've discussed in the past. It's been ongoing for about a year-long process. Uh, really starting with a grant the city had received from Henipin County through its Henbent County uh, planning grant program which helped us to fund a new Main Street master plan with the intention of really evaluating our Main Street district to ensure its long-term viability as uh, development occurs. And obviously things change, but to really set the stage for the reconstruction that's going to take place and the redevelopment that's occurred uh to ensure we have a holistic view and really is encompassing of what the community wants to see as well as the city through the community engagement process that we've done. Um I think the historical society really set this up great with their presentation. Obviously, this is a unique district. It's rather small in size, but we have a range from late 1800s to the 1970s for architecture. So, it's one of the things that we really wanted to highlight with this. Um, so I'm just really going to be kicking it off. Patrick from Cardo, who is our consultant on the project, is here to present this. And at the end, both staff or um Patrick can answer any questions you may have. >> Thank you, Britt. Madame Mayor, council members, thank you so much for uh your time this evening. Really looking forward to discussing this immortal tale with you all. So, um I also wanted to thank Brett Alec and all your help on this uh city staff. I know you've been promoting events and encouraging people to participate in this process. So, thank you so much for doing that. It makes our work more fun and more interesting. So, um with that, I think it's important before we jump into the slides to talk about what this is and what this is not. Um, a master plan is a road map over the next 25 years. This will not open happen overnight. Um, it's a road map of what your streets, parks, plazas, building forms, um, kind of development pattern should look like in this area. Um, it's not a precise prescription of every curb cut, parking space, uh, building footprint. Um, we like to say that town planning is cooking. It's not really baking. So with that, we are focused on the downtown zoning district. It's exactly the the study area that we were looking at. So it aligns with the zoning as it is today. And some of these desired outcomes. So these desired outcomes, they came from several different groups. They came from um the residents that participated online and in our open houses. that came from stakeholders, whether that was business owners, property owners, um, religious leaders, um, just anyone that was, uh, you know, a major player in the neighborhood. Um, overall, I think we met with over 200 people. That's conservative. Um, and these four desired outcomes really came from all those people combined. So, the first one, um, and loud and clear, this was the most important thing, um, creating a safer main street for pedestrians. Um, with the turn back from the county in the near future, you have a huge opportunity to build on some of the investment that's already been happening in the main street. Um, and create the highest quality public realm for pedestrians and most importantly kind of protect um, those that are walking down Main Street. Um, the second one is support and grow businesses. Um, we know how important it is to local business owners to stay in business obviously, but then recruit others to the area. Um, your main street, I looked again today. every uh storefront is occupied, I believe, which very few main streets can say. So, number one, job well done. It's important that you build on that success. Uh the third thing, a mixeduse neighborhood. Um this is fundamentally a different neighborhood than the rest of Rogers. Um some of the rules that you play by in other parts of town, you know, where you separate uses and you buffer between them is is not um appropriate here. Um, so what you want to do is mix all those things together where you can walk, work, bike, recreate, do all of these things in the same area. Um, and then the last one is connected. And we we mean that both um between people, connecting with your neighbors, providing those public spaces to do that. And then we also mean connected internally, excuse me, connected um connected street network um and connected to the neighborhoods to the south um and across Industrial Boulevard where possible. So again, remember I mentioned that this came from a whole whole group of people. Um so what we did is we we listened to what was working, what was not working, um some of those opportunities, um and we put those things on two separate kind of master plans. Um oftentimes people need to see something in order to respond to it. So some of the major themes and feedback, I'm not going to read all of this, but just some of the major themes and feedback that we heard. Um, number one that the double roundabout, the peanut roundabout sometimes called, um, this was overwhelmingly positively received. Um, there was a preference for a mix of uses, commercial uses and a larger range of housing types. So, not just large multif family buildings and not just small single family homes. We really want to infill everything in between. Um, wider sidewalks, trees, and small plaza spaces. Um, plan for a future with adequate parking. um and limit the congestion as much as possible. Um and there was a slight yet clear preference for alternative B, which I suspect was because there was a grocery store in that option. Um that usually is a a fan favorite. So, this is the 25-y year vision, as I mentioned, for the the Main Street area. Um and we're going to dive into the kind of the different areas there. So, the first one, the Main Street Core. Um I think it's appropriate tonight that u the historical society went first. Um there's a lot of great uh small town cherished character here that we want to preserve. Um so it's about maintaining that and then building on it. Um so on the north end, the new civic campus, you have an opportunity to create a marker off of Industrial Boulevard to help find the downtown, the main street. Um make it easier for those visitors to know that it's it's here and it exists. Um and building off of that um just infilling in some of those properties long term um between Industrial Boulevard um and Church Avenue. So if you look at this this rendering here, I think one of the most important takeaways is um apart from the Duffy development on the right side of the image here, uh most of the buildings are the same. Really all the changes are happening between the faces of buildings. So, street trees, new lighting, um on street parking, uh just a better environment for pedestrians. Um this is standing a little bit north of Church Avenue. It's on the east side of the street, um looking looking south towards the railroad tracks. And then the roundabout plaza gateway. Um this is really about creating a southern entry point into the neighborhood. Um we know that this is a challenging intersection. I think that's probably an understatement. Um it was the intersection that was most um confusing for motorists, for pedestrians, for cyclists. Um everybody recognized that this intersection needed to be improved. Um so how to do that? Um a peanut roundabout as I mentioned is is something that could work here. Um what it does is it simplifies the number of um kind of points of conflict as a traffic engineer would would call it. So you're just um approaching the roundabout making one decision. is there somebody in the roundabout or somebody not in the roundabout and then you can go. You don't have to gauge across the tracks or what's happening on Memorial Drive versus 129th Street. Um, and it causes you to slow down or stop, go around the roundabouts, and it just it's a it's a visual cue to motorists that you're entering a different pedestrian environment. So, it literally forces you to slow down. um mixeduse buildings with ground floor commercial space that could spill out and signal to investors and to visitors that this is this is a place to be uh a place to to visit and patronize. Um you you could have something that visually marks kind of the end of Main Street as you're looking south. Uh you could reference the old uh depot and that's what's kind of drawn there in the the pavilion. And then the last thing it does too is it it crosses the railroad tracks at a 90 degree u which is what the railroad is going to want to see from a from a safety perspective. Uh the east wetlands not not many changes here um but residents really did recognize that this is a beautiful asset. It's state protected uh wetlands. Um maybe there's an opportunity for a trail that would connect Vincentwood apartments to the southeast to the rest of downtown. Um, and maybe longterm once this is no longer in use, um, when the civic campus opens up, uh, redeveloping a little bit more on Memorial Drive, so close to downtown. And then lastly, and I'm going to, this is of course probably the furthest out in the future, uh, is the redevelopment of the industrial areas to the northwest of downtown. So, uh, earlier I mentioned a range of housing types and kind of smaller scale buildings as you walk away from downtown, as you move away from it. Um and as John Deere Lane um is extended northwest um some of these smaller um uh development opportunities uh will be available in the future. So really creating this this mixeduse walkable neighborhood in the future. And this is an an example of what that could look like. Um I think this is a good image to illustrate how you can mix all of these different types onto one street comfortably. Um there's single family homes, there's town houses, there's mixeduse buildings, there's live work buildings, there's small scale apartment buildings. They're all in this picture right next to each other and they fit uh very comfortably and kind of harmoniously on the same street. Pedestrian safety. Uh this is the most important objective for us, right? Um so it has to be a comprehensive approach. Uh you can't just do one or two of these things. You need to do all of these um in unison. So the most important thing is to reduce speed. Um, I did not drive all the way from St. Paul just to tell you that. A lot of you probably think, "Thanks, Patrick. That's good job." No. Um, reducing speed is obviously critically important to pedestrian safety. Um, if you're moving at 23 miles an hour and you're hit by a car, uh, you have a 10% chance of being killed. If a car is just going 9 miles an hour or faster, uh, the chance of being killed jumps two and a half times. So, it's a significant difference between 24 miles an hour and 33 miles an hour. Um all the studies are a little bit different but they generally paint that same picture. So there's kind of four ingredients here of what you should do to help mitigate that. Uh the first one is lane width. Um higher speeds usually are accompanied by wider lanes. Um the sections we proposed do meet the um MSAS standards. Shouldn't have any problem there. Um using on street parking. Um on street parking is a buffer between the sidewalk and the moving cars. It makes pedestrians feel safe. Um, and it's each parking space can contribute $20,000 to revenue for that main street. Uh, so I don't want to be the guy that takes away on street parking and kills your businesses. Um, so on street parking is vitally important. Crosswalks and flashing beacons, you've already done some of this work here. Um, continue to build on that um, other locations, other crossings in downtown. And then street trees, they provide shade, they reduce storm water runoff. Um, and then of course they visually narrow the street. Um there's a lot of studies that show that drivers drive slower when there are street trees versus when there are not when all other conditions are equal. Parking, we counted every parking space in the downtown uh today and in 25 years. It's as fun as it sounds. Um so we made sure that there's enough parking in the future. Um and this does not even include the word of life or um the other church any of the parking on their spaces. Um you can see there's a couple of uh parking lots that are going to be built in the future. Um they're going to accommodate this this new parking. So um this is conservative again. Um but we've shown there is enough parking in the future. Parking recommendation uh both short-term and long-term. So the first one is the cheapest parking space to build is the one you already have and you have a lot of them just waiting out there. Um so almost overnight with a little bit of paint you can add almost 50 parking spaces right here on Memorial Drive. the streets already wide enough. Um, and that does take into consideration um some of the spots by the the fire station. Um, so that's even being conservative and not having parking spaces near the fire station. Um, same philosophy there. Remove the no street the no parking signs on the south side of 129th Street. There's 8 ft outside of the travel lane. That's your your city standard for parking space. So, you can pick up another couple dozen spots there. Um, remove the two-hour parking. uh you could replace it with something like no overnight parking or something like that, but um removing those signs. And then the last one in the short-term recommendations um continue to um create signage uh kind of near our social. I know there's some now uh but bigger, more prominent signage that says where is the parking in the future. And I think that's going to be important too um when you build the 89 spaces at the civic campus is to make it very clear from both John Deere Lane and from Main Street that there is parking and that it's free. Um sometimes um we did hear that residents had a hard time understanding where the parking was. So we want to make sure it's clear where all the parking is. Um and then of course longer term 20 25 years out if it's necessary to find additional public parking spaces. There are other areas in the neighborhood although we're not recommending that in the short term um and continue to follow the ADA um which is just making sure that there are handicapped spaces near um building entries. Open space recommendations um there's really two kinds of open space recommendations. The first one is um those north and south entry points into the downtown. The one near the civic campus, a plaza there and then the roundabout kind of plaza entries. Um these are hardscaped. This is where you have commercial uses and seating spilling out onto them. Um it's kind of the living room of Rogers Wright. They're they're heavily used. Um more commercially focused. And then um in the future neighborhood to the northwest um creating a a small recreational park. So these aren't hardscape spaces. These are lawns um basketball courts, you know, whatever it might be. That can be determined at a later date. But um that black dash line right there represents a fivem minute walk to that park. So all of those residents could walk to that park um in the future. Central Park was one of the most beloved aspects of the of this area. So, um, just giving a compliment on the north part to that. And then the last thing I'll add is, um, crossing the train track now is obviously very difficult. There's no sidewalk. There's a lot of loose gravel. So, the trail along 129th Street and the trail that goes through Central Park that connects to Fletcher and 124th. Um, they almost meet at that point. So, paving them to that point, um, and connecting them to the plaza would make it easier to cross, safer to cross, and then it would be kind of the entry point from the south part of downtown. So the the neighborhoods to the south would be better connected to the downtown too. Um storm water recommendations. Our partners ISG helped with this. Um it's not likely one of these three options. It's probably a little bit of all three together. Um option number one is a proposed regional detention pond at the northwest corner. Um that's challenging no doubt because it requires an easement to it and some property acquisition on the far edge. So that's challenging. Um but that would be the ideal scenario. Um otherwise it's just targeted underground storage locations and then um bio swella. Those are those kind of pits you see between a sidewalk in the back of a curb kind of have the flowers and kind of the rain gardens and you can build those as you go too. Um and they and they can look pretty nice. And then finally the zoning recommendations. Um as I mentioned and as you all know this is one zoning district. Um, but we did notice there are just slight variations between all three all three kind of these zones. So, I'll start with the main street core, which we're not recommending any changes to as far as zoning is concerned. Um, but this is your area with um a highly kind of mixeduse walkable. Um, a lot of buildings at the back of the sidewalk, it's it's your main street core, right? So, it's it's mixed use. Um, no changes there. And then to the northwest in yellow, the western neighborhood. Um, this is where you might have smaller scale, multif family, single family, kind of a range of housing types that support the downtown. You could have office or commercial uses there, but it's residential is probably more appropriate. And then the last one, uh, the area shown in blue, uh, the southern neighborhood, uh, that's the residential area around Central Park. um this is really an area for preservation, maybe home occupation, maybe some smaller residential buildings, but um everybody felt like it should just essentially stay pretty similar to the way it is today. So, just some slight tweaks here and there to to adjust um the base zoning to this district. So, any questions for me or um or Alec? >> Madame Mayor and Council, I'm just going to add a few things. Obviously, we've done quite a few planning efforts in the past. So, I just want to highlight some of the major differences between past efforts compared to today. Um, when you look at the western district as shown, it really scales back on the density than what we previously had pushing the density more on the actual core. Previously, it showed multif family throughout that entire district. So, we scaled that back. That's some of the feedback we'd received throughout the process. Um secondly, really looking at the main street core itself. It's extremely important to have building frontages for pedestrian safety and obviously we have such a limited scale for commercial opportunities. So really trying to push those commercial uses to the main street core itself. Um and then if you look along Industrial Boulevard on the north side just to the west of Civic campus, introducing a few more opportunities for commercial uses in those locations too. um trying to hit some additional commercial opportunities since Main Street is fairly limited. Uh previous efforts had additional crossings with the railroad that was just very unlikely unlikely to ever occur. So removing those um separating out the plaza space before Church A was shown as being closed down. keeping Church AB there obviously serving households and trying to put some pocket plazas throughout to incorporate some more green space into the actual district rather than having just one set area trying to sprinkle it a little more throughout. Um, and then just the other note on parking. Um, if the city were to occur to be inclined to look at additional public parking, really looking at those secondary options, not directly on the main street, actual street frontage, but maybe a property or two off of the main street where it can serve that entire district, but still leaves us the ability to have that full core the way it is. Um, and then obviously there's some redevelopment shown, but we've really limited that down to really just focus on what those existing buildings are, highlight them. We have our facade grant program, which has been very useful in some of the buildings that's converted. Um, and a recent partnership to really try to emphasize some of those other buildings. So, really trying to keep the historic nature as much as possible. Of course, I have questions. Um, I had a lot, but I'll I'm not going to ask all of them. Um, so on the multi-use where you have commercial on the base and then apartments up above, is the intent to kind of keep a downtown look or have more of like a long apartment kind of like Broadway Pizza style with the businesses in the bottom? I mean, is it going to be more look like small individual buildings or like big because these are drawn like big strips of buildings? >> And Metamean Council, I can answer that. It would be not similar to the Asgard building. The Asgard building just has it end caps as commercial. This is looking at ground floor commercial. So, the more classic mixeduse style with apartments on the second floor. So, retaining that ground floor nature for commercial uses. um also smaller in scale to that. It wouldn't be as large of a building as Asgard by either length or number of units. It would be a little smaller scale in nature and also not extremely high heights. Try to stay consistent with the overall district. >> That answers my question. Thanks. And then the other question would be the roundabout. Um the way it's drawn, it shows two circles. Is it really going to be two full circles so someone could drive around and then stacking would occur? >> Yeah. So, right now BNSF only has four trains a week, which is which is not very many. Um, and there would probably have to be further study to see where the the crossing arms themselves are. Um, whether that might be before the roundabout so that people don't enter the roundabout and then the train comes and they're like, you know, so there has to be a little bit of further study on that for engineering. Um but yes, it would be would be two roundabouts. And the reason for that is because um ideally that um railroad is going to want just one crossing point. Um they're notoriously um a challenge to work with. Um so making it as as easy and as streamlined for them as possible. Um there there are numerous examples of this around the country. Um there's actually one on a a railroad ry in Conway, Arkansas that I think might be BNSF as well. Um so they they've been done other places. >> Okay. So you're not driving like outside the outer edge. You're driving around a circle and around a circle and going through each of them >> around the outer edge. >> Go to that the 3D views. So if you were heading north on Main Street in this image, you're coming from the bottom of the page. You take a right, you cross the train track, and then you go around the second roundabout and head north or east on uh Memorial Drive. So, it is it is two distinct roundabouts connected um by a lane in the middle. Um you could widen out those two those two streets in the middle of the train track to make it more of an oval. It's the same effect. Um okay, makes sense. Thanks. I just had one question. I know we previously had a parking study. Was that more of a standalone parking study, Brad? Is that incorporated here or was it kind of reviewed as part of the downtown master plan? >> Uh, Madame Marian Council, that was reviewed as part of it. So, that took place when um we did the small area plan, which was never adopted. So as part of the initial information gathering for this process, we reviewed all the past efforts that took place >> in our discussions about the civic campus that would have a fairly significant parking lot. Is that how is that incorporated into counting towards, you know, maybe off peak hours at city hall versus um being available for commercial, you know, like evenings and stuff like that? >> Yeah. Metamean Council. So the PL pasting study that was done that really influences that plan. So really what you're seeing before you that Patrick just presented really is focused on the new uses because there's a lot of differences between the two plans as mentioned. Um so when he showed this slide, it encompasses what would be proposed. So it's based on our actual site plan that we've used. So that number of stalls and how that influences based on our anticipated uses that would occur through the district. So we fully incorporated the proposed civic campus spaces into this parking study that was done as part of this. It wasn't an official parking study is wrapped into the master plan, but essentially this is >> um less intensive parking study. >> Yeah, it felt pretty intensive. Uh um the only thing I'll add to that is um this is a conservative estimate too. So this does not as Brett mentioned this does not incorporate um shared use right. So when you say and that when you're reading this and you see there's for a civic campus there's x number of spaces required um that's showing that it meets that demand at that peak time. So, so on Saturdays and Sundays or in evenings when none of those parking spaces are being used by city staff, um all of those those parking spaces become available for downtown. And so we only considered it from one use. So when you once you start to factor in shared use agree like shared use kind of off- peak demand and how those interact with each other, actually there's going to be more parking than this. So this is a conservative approach. So when you said there's more than adequate parking, you're taking into account what's at the civic campus evenings and where it might be needed off normal business hours. >> Correct. >> Is that correct? >> Yeah, madame mayor and council. That's when uh it was mentioned about signage. That's going to be an important component that we're properly signing that because as you've seen at other main streets that have a city hall, if you've been to any, they usually don't have signage and it's not actively utilized. So, if we incorporate that signage, it'll help signify that for the entire district. >> And obviously, what's important is if you're relying on that for parking, having a reasonable pedestrian facility connecting it to where you want to get to, right? So, even if there's place to park and I think about wintertime in particular, how that can be challenging. So, I just make sure that we're thinking of the winter months and where snow piles up and where pedestrian crossings are. We've seen it on Main Street already where people dart across the road just because they're in a hurry and it's freezing cold out, but they're parked right there on the street, but it's it can be a challenge. So, being I I like the idea of being conservative when it comes to parking and making sure we're uh covering all the needs there. to me. I mean, there's downtown areas all the time and what generally turns me off is not being able to park my car somewhere. And that's probably true for a lot of people. So, that to me is right at the top. It can be a lot of nice stuff, but if you can't, most people around here drive their car places. If you can't get there and park, it's they go somewhere else. And so, we want to make sure the parking part of this is included. >> Absolutely. Yep. that are social. And so that really up next to that. And if they start parking on the other side, you know, and then you're coming up to Well, the roundabouts are supposed to help with that intersection so you're only looking one direction and stuff. Yep. Okay. Got a double roundabout going on 101 north on the freeway up there. A dinky little roundabouts. If you ever followed any trailer, they just cut across it because there's no way they can do a double. They can do the turn ball with two roundabouts. I can't imagine how you would come 29th and go to past the fire station. That be impossible. I don't know why you don't but with a stop light. >> Yeah, you um so you can't there's not enough space there for a stop light and the railroad company's not going to want a stoplight that close to their their train track. Um >> stopping you're stopping 129th and the other road and you're stopping Main Street. You're not stopping on the railroad track because just like the one up here, there's a stop light by the railroad track and that was the issue. Yeah, these well roundabouts are are very efficient at moving at moving cars at a slow speed. Um, so they often can be a little bit u more useful than a stoplight. But the other thing I'll say about the the truck traffic is there will have to be um turning radi ran around these two with fire trucks um and other other kind of larger vehicles. Um and there's a way to mitigate that. You just widen the inside so that there's the travel lane there, there's the brick paving and then there's the landscaping. So there's a mountable curb and you can go over part of it and trucks can go over part of that. So um and the other dozens of examples I found in the US um that's incorporated. They they incorporate truck turning radius. So that can be done >> that one large trailer pulling a just turn right over. >> Yeah, that's a mini roundabout. That's why they're designed to be driven over the top for large vehicles. They're the minis versus the full size. >> Yeah, >> right. Those are the fulls size ones, but the one on 101 that you're talking about is a mini and it's designed to be driven over for the larger vehicles. >> No, not a fan. I can tell you right now that particular intersection is under its own study and development from an engineering perspective to address the very things you're talking about. >> And to be quite honest, um the coordination with the railroad, finding a solution that looks something like this is the big challenge if they're going to go along with it. So, I think this is ideal and it feels like a good fit for it, but we may need to look at other options including a signal or something else. But there's underway separately is a separate engineering based study um which will take a look at truck traffic through there. Um, >> you are >> Yep. >> And the solution with that usually is you just wind up with a bigger footprint until you hit a point where it's just not feasible anymore due to the impacts. Um, you know, and so that's what we're going to be that's what that study's going to be looking at. So, yeah. There's a plan. Are they going to add another >> Mor council members? We have only acquired one for the crosswalk at Church Avenue and there'll be flashing lights on both sides of the road. Madame Mayor and Council, unless there's additional items that council would like to see change, we are seeking this to be adopted. We have our comprehensive plan kickoff or has kicked off. So, we're hoping this work can help influence that comprehensive plan effort. >> Looking for a motion? >> You're looking for a motion? >> Promotion? Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll make a motion to adopt the Main Street master plan. >> I'll second. >> We have a motion. >> Second. All in favor? >> I posted. >> Madame Mayor and Council, I just want to say thank you to Patrick and Cardo. They did a fantastic job. Our open house second one had well over a hundred people, which is pretty unheard of for a long range planning effort. So, big thank you to Patrick. >> Yeah. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> Yeah. Thank you, council. Thank you proposal at 1320 Hawkins Drive. >> Thank you, Mayor and Council. Before you tonight is a concept plan request uh for review by the Oasis Group for a senior facility um at 13020 Hawkins Drive. So Hawkins this piece is is Hawkins Drive is the um dead end road off of 129th west of Oakwood Drive. It's it's a little over 10 acres currently. It's it's a vacant property with an old agricultural building. Um the the site itself is is guided for medium and zoned from R3 5 to 11 units an acre is the the range of density allowed on medium or mid-density residential district. Um you think um town homes attached single family similar to the towns at Fox Creek is is that general district uh layout. Um the proposed use at this site uh by the Oasis group is a senior living facility which is a conditional use in uh the R3 district. And then here's a larger aerial uh those blue squares footprints building footprints of existing structures uh within the sort of frame on on this aerial. And then just just briefly, this isn't the first time you've seen this particular property under consideration. Um, and 24 Hawkins Place Town Homes was was an application by Dean Johnson Homes, which uh was kind of whittleled down from around 60 to 53 units for their their pre-plat application back in 24. Um, this particular application before the concept plan is by Oasis Group, the new owner of the property itself. So, this is a different development, a different development. um uh uh a different owner and a different developer. That previous plan was around seven units an acre uh net density. So if you netted out the the the wetlands on site, that net density was around seven units an acre. Um there were quite a few constraints on the property and there were quite a few variance requests along with this particular town home development. Um, as you'll notice as as I get through here, the development pattern of this particular one is pushed to the edges of the property. So, the town homes were quite a bit closer to the property lines than what you would see um um in in the next the next few slides for the concept plan in particular. Um and generally what the result was this was tabled at the commission um at that public hearing uh with some additional revisions that we would have liked to see to whittle down some of those variance requests um for a more realistic pattern with based on what was um at that time was seen as the development constraints with the wetlands on site. Um, and that circulation pattern too for town homes is quite a bit different than what you you'll see in the in in the next few slides for this particular concept plan. Um, at that previous hearing, um, there were quite a it was a well attended hearing if you recall. Um, so with a lot of presence from folks on on Oakwood Drive in particular and nearby in in that Fox um, Creek development area. Um so questioning why this particular property was R3 rather than R2. It was seen as a a major shift when with the 2020 comp plan update. Um the town home proximity to neighbors was a concern at the time. the lack of screening proposed, which was some of the comments that the that developer at the time received about revising that to make sure there was enough screening um not that the property was promised as a park at some point in time uh by a previous plan, by a previous developer that that didn't come to fruition fruition was a concern of the neighborhood. um that the there are traffic concerns on adjacent streets, concerns about school capacity, and concerns about energy grid, which is um you know, an Excel issue ultimately that they're trying to resolve, which feature capacity upgrades in their their own system plans. And then just what did those products look like? Um I don't think he had a firm understanding of what the product would be. This was an example he had brought with him from a previous development he had did elsewhere. Um, but the height sort of the heights allowed within an R3 district are similar to a three the three three-story product in the the MI homes development um by Quest apartment or the town of development in um towns of Fox Creek. So the current comp plan or the current concept plan before you is is for a senior facility. It's 160 total units as presented. So the the it's a mix of independent living apartments uh studio apartments with 40 assisted living uh apartments and 20 memory care beds. Um it's a three-story building proposed likely around this is to be determined right if architecture plans move forward. Uh the overall height would be you know uh solidified more in depth with future submitts should those occur. Um but around 37 feet it's a three-story building. The R3 max is 35. Um the ultimate goal for the applicant is is around 6,000 square feet of footprint. Um 100 around 150 parking stalls. Uh and then a proposed 1acre park dedication in the southeast corner of the site. Um the net density with the 160 beds, 160 total units is around 26 uh units per acre. Um that R3 max is 11 units an acre. So that a future submitt likely that will come with this development plan is a planned unit development. Um based off of um the concept plan review by the commission, the applicant did express a desire for solar and geothermal um more sustainable design practices for the building itself as well as a commitment for cutoff lighting to make sure there's no um adverse lighting across property boundaries. Underground parking is proposed on the side. I've got a few slides with pictures here. and then the very preliminary um floor layouts uh for each of the three floors. So the studios and assisted living are mixed and then the memory care units is is on the on the ground floor on the south and in the east wings of that uh footprint. and then uh a more um comprehensive sort of concept plan of what the site could look like with additional burming. Um the blue blobs, the stormwater plan is not uh we don't have a stormwater plan. These are conceptual blobs for where that might be placed for storm water. So this would be an evolving site plan as far as what the actual site improvements would look like. Um parking again is on the west side of the building. So, it's it's accessed directly off of Hawkins uh with no direct access for the the use itself to 130th Avenue. So, there's no direct access to Oakwood Drive other than a possible what would be a city improvement for the park dedicated land should that come to fruition. And then the exterior concept of design, I've got a couple slides regarding this. Again, threetory with um uh uh multiple materials on site, brick um sort of the standard sighting similar to what would be found on a uh standard residential town home or uh single family type structure. The sighting, the the architecture is very similar as far as the peak roof. Um, obviously the scale is is different than what would normally be seen in an R3 district and sort of the 3D rendering of what that might look like. >> You have a east elevation. >> So east um I don't have an east elevation of what uh >> specifically elevation, right? >> But I do have a view submitted by the architect as far as what it could look like with screening from the east side. If you look here, this would be looking from um Vanessa's cursor. >> Yeah. But with a wet lay pond to the northeast. >> Yep. >> You're not going to have screening along that, are you? >> So, not within the wetland. There's the to the north. >> Screening would have to be um outside of the wetland unless there's some very hearty types of screening trees that could be planted there. But typically those aren't those aren't um developed or or messed with those wetland larger wetland complexes. And then briefly I just I added a slide from the commission meeting. What is sort of the heightened building presence? What's similar? Um I've got let me just go picture by picture. This is a picture off of Hines Court. This is the MI development. These are approximate heights um from from finish grade. Um height is is a matter sort of perspective, right? You you it depends on where you are, where the driving is, where the grades are between different structures, right? So the house is the measurements that we do are from sort of the average or finished grade to whatever code tells us for the type of structure it is. Is it a flat roof? Is it a hip roof? Gabled? Um it just depends on on where that measurement takes place. On a typical single family home, you're measuring to the mean gable for that height restriction. Um the the MI town home is if you're looking for at the front along Hines Court. Um so the the access to the garages are on the back side and the private streets. The front is the the walk um the sidewalk to to the trail. It almost looks like a two and a half story product where you've got um a portion of the back of the garage in front with the main living levels on top of that. Those are roughly 20 32 to to to 34 uh feet in height to the peak. Um Dior Harden has a very similar type of product um for some other town homes that are stacked. The this is not a picture from this metro, but a very similar product was built off of Balsam Lane in Dayton um by Dehorton. It's it's a more it is a sort of a straight threetory product with a tuck hunter garage in the rear. A very similar height to the MI product. This is the Quest apartment over just north of um of City Hall uh northeast of um Norbella over there. to um to the mean gable. This is a pitched roof is around 35 to 37 feet in height. It's a threetory with um subterranean parking on on both sort of end and caps of that building. Um and then at the bottom right, this is sort of a standard twostory product for a single family. It's going to range depending on who the builder is, what the architecture is, around 29 to 30 ft to the peak of the roof for a two-story product. Obviously, if you're on a single level, that's, you know, depends on the ceiling height that's being developed for that particular product. And then the bottom left is is what might be 37 or 39 ft to the mean gable depending on ultimately how that those architecture plans get revised. A couple notes in code, we measure height limitations to the mean gable, but there are architectural embellishments that are exceptions, including chimneys, um, copas. If I go back, a copa is sort of like an ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar architectural embellishment I can get here. So copas are these sort of windowed elements here at the top of the roof. Those uh copas are are exceptions to code. Um the sort of traditional building those were on are like churches or some of those older um stone buildings. Those are exceptions. And if you have a flat roof, parapet walls that are installed typically on much taller buildings, um maybe it's the screen uh mechanical elements can go up to 4 feet above the flat roof line. So there there are yes, it's a 35 foot limit or threetory limit depending on what code you are. But if you are on a different roof style, there are types of exceptions depending on on what you're looking at. So church spires, things like that. This was also submitted um as sort of an option exploring if if um a flat roof could be an option if if height was a major consideration for um it's being too tall. But if you go to a flat roof style, now you've got architectural style that's very out of place compared to what's around it. Um obviously uh based on feedback from the applicant, this is not a preferred style that they would choose. We did have a neighborhood meeting. Um timing wasn't great just because of um submittal timelines were for concept plans. We try to get through them in a 60-day time window. I did want to have a neighborhood meeting that was scheduled prior to the commission so that the neighborhoods could get a stab at looking at um that very early on in the process. That was one of the highlights from the previous um Dean Johnson home is we weren't made aware of this early enough to get a very good response. Um so we did send notices around 160 notices to surrounding properties. Um they were noticed of the meeting itself as well as that's scheduled for the concept review as well. This is um you know this was where they got a few got a chance. Now it wasn't super well attended due to spring break scheduling, right? So a lot of folks may not have attended just because of of um being out of out of town or busy during those times, but general sentiment was positive about the design and layout, but the the question was this doesn't seem like the right location based off neighborhood feedback. Um, so you know there um the there was I mean they I think the neighbors would appreciated the design of the building and it looked nice but they did question that this might not be the right location. And then the uh general discussion the commission was relatively f favorable about the concept plan. Um there were a couple commissioners who also had the same question. Is this is this the right location for it? Um there you generally there were fewer concerns with traffic um from the commission raised for this particular use. Um appreciation for the sustainability features that were mentioned at that meeting. Um they like the fact that there was quite a bit of additional room around the building for uh landscaping that there was park dedicated land proposed. Um, as that was mentioned at some previous hearings with the Hawkins Town Homes development, um, that lighting could be cut off and focused on the west side of the property and not on the east side. Um, and then they did acknowledge that this was a demonstrated need for senior housing in the area, right? So, um, you know, whether or not it's it's here on this particular location or elsewhere, there is definitely a need for senior housing and assisted living in this area. Um and the developer did submit a a market study that they did for that that did show that there was definitely a need in the area um that this could possibly achieve around 43% of the need if this would go forward at this location. I'm going to briefly touch on this because I think your opinion tonight, your feedback is going to direct where this goes. Right. So, we discussed at our pre-application meeting with the developer how to get here, how to get a product or project going. There are options for getting this development to go the way it is presented tonight. um whether it's one of the probably the simplest approach is option B of plan unit development just you can exceed density the council can choose to exceed density restrictions should there be enough public benefit um or public interest involved in that right so if there's arguments to be made that that could be an option if you if you see the senior needs are high enough that this can meet those needs needs that there might be benefit there that could approve a PUD for this. Other options include adding additional R3 land. There is R3 land that Weber owns whereas his current homestead is whether or not he's um a willing seller of that particular part of the property is in question, right? But it's theoretically they could acquire additional land to get the density to the maximum of the R3 district. What that does is it makes the west half just unbuildable, right? So you're you're making that a part of that development. So you're lot your overall lot size increases, but the development plan is still the same, right? You still have a three-story product on the east side of Hawkins with nothing else built west of there in that particular, right? So >> you're just adding property to thin it out, >> right? So that's basically you're meeting the technical requirements without changing the site plan at all. Right. So >> but there could be options to add additional land whether it's for public purposes building out a trail to the north if you see the markup here. I mean, you know, I'd hate to tell you to go acquire additional land to build a really big corridor that might not might not be used or might impact future development, but if you can secure enough for trail improvements, maybe there's arguments to be made to include additional land, right? So, there's options here is is all this slide is saying. >> So, the orange is suggestion of Weber. So, based off of the pre-application meeting, um Weber could be a willing seller. >> I'm just wondering what >> that could be additional land added. >> Yeah. Where is it? >> It's um so the Hopkins Drive. So the the on the west part of the um existing neighborhood there's a existing ride ofway half right ofway for Hawkins Drive that's identified as a trail corridor in our trail plans but this particular piece is on the R2 zone land for that Weber owns south of Cali Lake. >> Right. So option C you're adding the orange. >> It's just an option. Right. So you couldn't you could mix together applications. You could mix together a PUD with additional land. It's just an option that could be considered. >> I'm wondering what what land you're adding. >> I I'm not adding any of it, but I >> I'm wondering what land is added in option C. >> Option C it could be. So opt So uh the the picture on the right could be option A with a so you take you you uh developer could buy the land request to reguide it to R3. Now you've got 11 units an acre. 9 acres of land. Uh at R3, you got 11 units an acre there. Option C could be a combination where you reduce the amount of land that they require uh acquire uh but have it have some combination of of infrastructure built trail corridor built with the development. It I'm not proposing anything in this. I'm just saying that there could be a combination there that >> still exceeds that >> because if I knew where the land was, if it's this piece, then maybe the building could move or reorient. I'm trying to understand what is the extra >> so property. >> What what I heard at the pre-lication meeting with the development um was that Weber might be a willing seller of the R2 zone land and not the R3 land. So the R3 land is directly west where the homestead is. This is a separate parcel here. Um maybe he changes his mind and sells the R3 land, but this would be basically northwest of the existing proposed site and then included in the development along the western boundary. There's no proposed improvements for like moving or shifting the building. It's just moving or jumbling land around to get a reduction in density or um added trail elements or some other improvement. >> No, we don't know if Weber is a willing seller of the R3 land, right? So, um we don't know if he's a willing seller at all at this point. So, it's just these are options the developer is exploring as they move further and based off of feedback you might give to them tonight that might inform those future applications or what they add to the property or or what have you. >> So, up above that orange section, what percent of that total property is that? like how does that affect future development? Is that a big enough section to the west? >> So I I think it's I I grabbed a random 9 acre piece from the R2 part of that property. So it wasn't a scientific here's what you can this is what you should do. It was here's how you can make the math work a little simpler if everything was zoned the same. Not everything's zoned the same here in this picture. Right? So, you've got R2 land where Weber owns and sold about 20 acres to Ki Lake. Um, I can't recall. I think there's almost 30 or 40 acres in this area that Weber still owns between his homestead that's currently zoned R3 because if I remember correctly, that parcel isn't all that wide compared to the length of it. >> Yeah. So, so what what would have to be looked at is is if this gets locked into a development and restricted for development and just as greenway, how does that impact subdivision in the future? That is not a question I looked at, right? That should be looked at because the the development Cali Lake extended a culde-sac that stubs the south part of Cali Lake here that potentially can go further south, right? that that could be an ancillary roadway in this area that connects into Edgewater Parkway as it expands to the south. That needs to be looked at. Um, in my mind, grabbing nine extra acres just to make the math work, it can be done. I don't know if it's >> the right move, if you can make a productive use of a smaller amount. just uh putting lipstick on. >> You know, Alex, from sitting in on the planning commission, I think the basic concept of the facility, everybody liked the facility. It's the location that we have concerns about. Y >> it's the traffic pattern getting in there. It's safety. I don't know if the fire chief has looked at it as far as only having one entrance to get in and out as far as for fire trucks. Also, I look at um how does that affect further development to the west? You know, it also, you know, it affects the Oakwood properties, but what does it do to the properties to the west? That's something we have to take into consideration, too. And the other thing is is the park Is that big enough to have a park, a oneacre slice? I'd have to have him do a little research so he could give a decent comment on that. So, as far as a facility goes, I love the facility. I'd like to see it go someplace, but is this the right place for it? That's the big question that came out of >> the committee. >> What's the uh in this plan, Alec? What's the distance from the east boundary to the the western most portion of the building? >> Let me uh get a measurement quick for that. >> Feel free to ask more questions. I can come back to that one. >> I don't have a question. I just agree with what Joel said. I I like the idea. I know there's demand. Um I know like St. Theres and Corkran, they filled up that first building. They're already adding the second one way quicker than they planned. I mean, there's definitely demand, but it seems like a really odd location to put it. Um, >> the the other question I have is what's the alternative for the for this property? >> Can this property be reszoned? >> Well, can town homes go into it? So, the town home presentation didn't quite make it to us, but is there a way to get town homes to fit in there? >> I thought there was neighborhood opposition to that as well. >> Yeah, there was >> there was I think because of the >> a lot of the same same issues. >> Yeah. >> Well, this this is not going to be a hightra property, you know, was that >> this is not going to be a hight traffic. >> Well, I have a question on that though. a lot of visitors. I tried to think of advantages and number one, it's going to be a quiet neighbor. >> Well, >> number two, I think it's off the property line a little bit, but it's still a big building. >> So, I have a question. Um, as far as like emergency response to these kinds of facilities, I would expect that there'd be a higher level of response than like a normal household neighborhood. Madame Mayor, members of council, it's definitely more than a single family home, but it's hard to tell. Um, >> you exactly uh with the mixture of skilled and memory care and assisted and independent. Independent just varies. Um, skilled can drive a little bit more call volume, but there's t there's also nurses on site and then assisted there's nurses on site. So, yes. said no. Um if you're looking at St. Terres scale of building, yeah, it impacted our Kova MD Corkran significantly last year, but that's much larger building as well. Um we go to Norbella and the Wellstead a lot. >> I don't I don't think that St. has60 >> floors. It's got to be I looked at that with my dad. I thought it was off of that, but that could be >> it might not be as wide, but it's taller. >> It's tall. >> So, the setback of the east wing is about 100 ft from the east property line. Um, if you go further up to where the in uh underground parking is, that north side of the building is around 200 feet if it's out outside the wetland. >> Um, right, that this is a shifting plan, right? There's probably going to be a little bit more depending on where wetland buffers are placed, things like that or where storm water is placed. Um it's I blanking on some of the other questions. Um council member Angga. So the um you know the the fire fire department comments is the typical is we want two ways in, right? That can be accomplished through an emergency access from a dedicated park or an improved park. uh whether it's a beefed up trail section that can be accomplished for for fire response. Um you know utilizing the trail on the east side as a as a fire lane depending on how wide it is or if there's a need for that depending on what the fire suppression it looks like their fire plan is right there's there's none of that is sort of um unaccomplishable right to to meet fire safety needs. Um, as far as what could go here other than this, in the R3 district, you can do town homes and you can do single family. So, it just depends on what is marketable at the time and what the the return is uh for a particular development. Um, so it it could be that they do a different site plan that fills that central light uh central uh wetland and have a more town home units there than what the Dean Johnson homes put in. that could be accomplished, but the circulation patterns are going to be different. You're going to they will have to spread out further for the site to to add circulation um you know, driveways and whatever there there needs to be for that. Um street light impact might be more with additional road circulation within the site as well. So, um, >> and if the Weber property was available right now, we're assuming it isn't, but if it was, there'd be a little more flexibility or not, like with the way this site is. >> So, there could be they could reorient it. Um, the the the difficulty with this particular one, at least this area, is there is force man. There's sewer force main along Hawkins. that'll have to remain there. I mean, that that serves a purpose. There's there's force man, there's sewer there. Um they could vacate the road and get some flexibility, but there'd still be DNU easement to maintain that that's those um utilities in that Hawkins Drive area. They go they go basically to Aspen Drive. It doesn't go much f doesn't go any further than that, I don't think. And I guess my question for Mike would be and kind of to follow up with Joel's question. So a oneacre park, how much can go into that? Like how useful is a oneacre park? >> So according to our um trails and open space plan, a oneacre park would be classified as a mini neighborhood park which would have a approximately quarter mile service area. So, you would have your you would still be able to fit your traditional playground in there. Um, kind of how the drawings are shown. It's just you wouldn't expect a larger service area out of a park that size. >> Mayor, just to answer that question about St. Trees, it looks like St. Trees and Corkran is really similar in size between 150 and 160 units. pretty big. >> We were there 46 times last year. >> 46. I'm pretty sure when I talked to the courtroom police that shop with the cop, they said 300 plus visits from them. >> Yeah. We don't go to all the medicals they would go to. So things >> Yeah. I'm just saying there's pretty frequent visits. That That's not a small amount. >> If you have questions specific, um the developer is here. We've got the the architect here as well if you have questions about that that plan, but um the OSS group representatives are here tonight as well. >> Well, I'm kind of echoing the thoughts of I like the looks of it. There is a need, but I don't think this is the location. Um, it just I don't think it fits in the neighborhood. >> Um, Main Street Plan had some nice location. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Thank you, council. Awesome. My name is Simeon. This is my business partner, Serge. Um, and this is our architect, Corey with Brenton Architects. Um, thank you very much for for bearing us out today. Um really appreciate this opportunity. We originally for this site, we were looking at it to put houses on it and uh that is an option. We, you know, obviously looking at what the last developer did, um he backed out of that. you know, it was my understanding that the the area didn't the people didn't want that. So, we kind of looked at, okay, what what was previously said, you know, what you know, what can we do? Um, so we were thinking, okay, move the houses back farther away, like put the um put the unit back more towards uh towards the side, so it give more of a leeway between the houses there. Um, so that was one of the was one of the options, but you can speak a little bit about, you know, some of that stuff. >> Yeah. Um definitely we're looking for some other options that might u be more palatable than what had failed earlier. uh looking at the distance from those properties, which by the way uh with that zoning can certainly be the same 35 to 39 ft tall depending upon what they look like and they can actually be within 10 ft of the property lines rather than um 100 feet or 150 or 200 feet away. So, we were the reason we're here is for open transparency and guidance. And, you know, I just want to thank Alec. He's been remarkable at uh hearing what our questions are and trying to listen to to the neighborhood uh and trying to find a common ground. I scratched I scratched my head on this for a while to be honest with you. uh there's ways to make this this property work with a conditional use permit uh by buying more land and there's there's actually another option uh which was mentioned earlier you know buying the R uh three land that Weber owns is another option and then the exact same site plan uh can remain just as mentioned earlier we end up with more green space on the west and and I scratched my head on that saying That is that really a benefit if >> No, it's not. >> And that's what seemed. Yeah. And so I I'm agreeing with and so this is why we're here. We're here to >> we're here to get guidance benefit if it >> if it made sense to move the building to the west and have >> you know some more amenities around it or whatever and and just get some more >> and and then and then uh council member then how far how far is how far how much more do we move it and for why and to what benefit? That's why we gave Alec the uh rendering showing if we place the BMS in place and put the appropriate vegetation on it, what does the view look like? Uh that isn't the view as as if we were to put town homes 10 ft away that are 35 ft tall. You'd really see those. So I looked at this and said, you know, how do I create uh a site that's way more park-like? and quite frankly an opposite uh approach to what was previously proposed. And what would I want to live next to? Uh ironically, my father um uh called me one day and I was doing a a senior housing project in Austin and he said, "You can't believe what these people are wanting to do. They're wanting to put a senior housing project next to, you know, near our house. They drive horribly and blah blah blah." said, "Dad, settle down." I go, "Uh, that's me doing that." And he says, "You got to be kidding me." Well, he actually has come around and said, "I'm so surprised they don't drive much and they don't drive bad and they're very quiet." So, a lot of, you know, u mixed emotions, uh, you know, come up on on a projects like this. I I've seen this hundreds of times, but I'm looking at this as if I was here, what would I what would I want to see? And if I was a council member from a tax basis, is there is there a better benefit to 7 to nine acres going to a new um offering to your community rather than just tacking seven to nine acres onto this just to make it meet the requirements. The other thing is is that the the the 9.1 acre parcel um we used to use the words undue hardship and now uh we don't use those words anymore. Uh but you know this this site has a lot of wetlands on it and the site is is actually less desirable from a developing standpoint because there is so much wetlands on it and and quite frankly we really if we could if we didn't have the wetlands and we wanted to go to the wetland bank we could literally wipe out the wetlands which I would never do but we'd have 9* 11 is 99 9.1* 11 is just about 100 100 units. We can put a hundred units on this if we didn't have all these wetlands on there. And that's that's the part that's hard to swallow. Um because the green space is still there, the vegetation's there, the wildlife is there. I mean, it's it's just perfect. And I just had such a hard time with, you know, with that. And so we're we're asking for 160 rather than 100 when you take into consideration the fact that the site has a lot of wetlands. So if you're following that math, that's why we're here. This there's a there's so many ways to do this and we just want to do this right and we don't want this to fail and that's why Oasis Group is here. Um Oasis Group is from town. I can let them talk a little bit to that. If there's any questions in regards to what the intent was, um the intent is to try to create a building structure that blends in. There's a reason we didn't go with the flat roof concepts, which actually work in a downtown environment like we have just a few blocks away. Kudos. But amongst uh single family homes that have the same architectural aesthetics, it didn't seem appropriate. And quite frankly, it it's it's just not right. So, we have this direction we're pitching and we just want you to know we really care. >> Quite frankly, the east elevation looks just like the west. So, the same architectural features are on that. Um the gables, the dormers. Um we can pull that and Yeah. And we can pull those elevations. You see all of those eyebrow windows? You see all of the decks. You see all of the That's the same on the other side. >> So much talking about the building. I mean, you're not going to have a parking lot there. It's just going to have a different >> No, it will. >> The east. >> Yep. Yep. And and and actually being able to sit on your deck and look out to the wetland as the ducks come in. And I mean, I could really see that being very nice. >> Um, is it mathematic? Well, here's here's the here's the problem. So, mathematically, um it it probably is possible to do partial uh twotory. Um we're we're avoiding uh the wetlands and not wanting to deal any do anything with them. So, the more compact we make the design, the more green space we have and the less wetlands we have to to to deal with. Um hope theory behind my question was to get a little less elevation. >> Well, here let me let me throw this out and this is not meant to be to be negative, but um a a town home can be 35 ft uh to to its midpoint on the roof. As Alex uh pointed out, this can be the same. So you you know your your question is can we make this a twotory? Sure we could. Do we have to? Probably not. Um, what does it do by making it twotory? Well, it stretches it out and it makes it even larger on the site and it takes up more green space. That's why we didn't do that. That's why we're saying, hey, this is this is Yeah. Yeah. So, u that was the kind of the the thought, >> but the question could be could you have less units? >> Could we have less units? Um, well, from a you know, I design a lot of these. I can tell you that it's very difficult to get um uh facilities like this to to to actually work from a business model when they get to be small. Uh and smaller, you know, thatund 120 is 100 to 120 is pretty tough. Uh it used to be, you know, 10 15 years ago, uh you could you could do a 50 unit and make it cash flow. >> You can't do that anymore. Construction costs are stupid expensive right now. Um, each of these dwelling units are are likely to be, you know, 250 to 280,000 per unit. You do the math on that. There's a monstrous tax u uh element here for you guys in your community. Monstrous. This this project is very sizable. So, um, did I answer the question? I was not trying to avoid it. Yeah. >> I I also wanted to add also, thank you, Corey. uh you know just so you guys know his background um he's done over 70 of these so he's uh very knowledgeable in that in that space >> so so yeah that's why we wanted to partner with somebody um we're from Rogers we we are running our business right here on on Fletcher here and we love the Rogers community we're like you know we um I I go to church in Rogers here So it's it's it's really great. Um with this project also we do want to bring in not just the green which thank you for mentioning that we we want to do a lot of you know like the we have really some cool options for this. Um we want to do solar with this project. We want to do geotherm. Um the solar stuff too is not going to be panels. It's uh it's a new product on the market which is a solar window. So the windows will be solar. So it's a we're really incorporating a lot of things that um most people wouldn't see on a on on a project like this. The geotherm the the insulation that we're using like like everything is going to make this a really really u really nice place to stay. not just a place where people can go and age. Um, our hope was to do something more of like a a cruise ship feel something that would make the elderly really feel like they're at a place where they want to live. So, that's what we were looking for. Serge, you want to jump in? >> Yeah. Mor and council, thank you so much for listening to us today. Um, this we believe that we acquired a truly unique piece of property, you know, with wildlife, with two wetlands, and we wanted we, you know, we were there in the winter and we see how neighbors like cleaned off some paths and walking their dogs and and just enjoying the land. So, and um, one acre of a park is better than no park, right? And in that area, the park is needed. I mean, uh, people need an area where they walk their dogs and where, uh, we would love to dedicate that one acre to to the neighborhood. And also, you know, um, we have a green 360 company where, uh, we wanted to create this into a green project, preserving the wetlands, preserving the wildlife, uh, um, bringing benefit to to the community. this this building uh like um in a last meeting one of the members mentioned that we're we're getting older you know this building will serve the community well and um like madame mayor you mentioned that there there are two in corporate and they're getting filled >> so um and creating a unique um ecosystem in this area preserving the land and wetlands um instead of just a huge development. Uh I think this is a truly unique project that uh we would love to see uh happening if you approve. Thank you. >> Yeah, I also want to say that reminded me um along with Corey um we are partnering with uh a management company Silverest. Silverest will be running the project. Um along with that this will be me and Serge's project. So, we are not selling this off. This is not going to be a build and go type thing. We want to stay here. I mean, not stay here, but maybe I don't know. But we do want uh we want to uh keep this and to hold this um so it's not, you know, um you know, sold off. Um, but we are partunate. I don't know if you guys have done any research on Cedar Crest, but they're um they've they did uh I think a 400 unit um in Maple Grove um uh over by the town green over there. Um they um they're one of the biggest, you know, providers here. So, they're they're really good at what they do. when I went and visited multiple other management companies like theirs was like topnotch and um they had a really when I walked in their facility they have a a really awesome facility made you feel at home but it wasn't just that there was more to it um you know they have a lot of pools and a lot of lot of cool stuff so we'll be we're working with them um and and obviously Corey and Bruntton to to really get a product that is going to be a really really nice product. So, just wanted to say that. >> Well, >> thank you. >> It also be it would be cool to also partner with the the historical guy. I was thinking when he was in here, I was like, "Oh, man." Like if he does stories, you know, this would be a great place to to kind of work with that. So, >> absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Do you have any questions? She does. >> Not right in our backyard, but Um, but one thing that I thought about was a lot of I don't know if there's anybody able to shut them off at a certain >> That's a great question. That's a great question. >> Lights and sirens. >> Yeah. I mean uh we encourage both chief and I chief would echo this to respond as needed and appropriate. We typically respond to particular calls with lights and sirens. State law would mandate that if we have our lights activated the sirens activated. Yep. Sorry. Uh Chief Wells and I would both say that we encourage our staff to respond appropriately. So it it's based off what's relayed to us. If it's a chest pain or any other time-sensitive emergency, we would respond in an eent fashion with lights and sirens activated. State law would require us that if our lights are activated on the road, our siren is also activated. So, or vice versa. Any other question? >> So is this something that eventually when they develop more is that not so like I might call the second develop. >> I can respond to that. Give me one second. Pulled up the plan. >> Um, mayor and council, the question was, what's the the plan for roadways in this area? Uh so Cali Lake when they submitted their final >> I think it was more the future of Hawkins, right? >> Yeah. Hawkins itself is is not so the east half was vacated with Fox Creek. So the Hawkins Drive itself is not going to be punching through any any further north. However, the the trail plan does show where that Hawkins rideway is as a trail corridor. So, if you recall, Cali Lake, they they um the some of the concerns was this whole development was feeding across into 133rd Avenue. So, they went back and they re redid this cul uh 133rd access to culde-sac instead of connecting directly into Edgewater Parkway. That culde-sac does stub to the south property line. So that could potentially go um further south possibly could connect into Aspen. Uh but the main corridor that should be extended with future development of Weber is Edgewater Parkway. So Hawin Drive itself wouldn't go any further north, but it could be um a good path for a trail corridor there. address that. The full cut off lighting is uh is actually a it's like a shoe box upside down with the lid off and then the light goes straight down so the light doesn't spill over too far so the light wouldn't be going onto adjacent property. >> Yeah. Yeah. In fact, um there was discussion about not having any lighting on the building on the on the uh east side so as to not add light pollution to the neighbors that are there. Um and maybe only have low voltage trail lighting, you know, just from a safety perspective. That by the way, that trail is a fire lane as well. So we wanted to try to make sure we could address that. But good that's a good question. >> Any other question? There was a there was there's been discussions uh for vacating um that road Hawkins and the possibility is if if we could come to an agreement if this all continues to move forward, you know, we would take the opportunity to push the building a little further to the to the west. Um we want to try to provide some burming on the backside uh to try to get some plant life in there. I know uh one of the residents, you know, I think we did the math on it at one time. I was like 400 400 feet, I think, to their property, but you know, they have the they're looking out across the wetland, but 450 ft is a long ways away. So, but we still feel that there might be some opportunities to provide some landscaping elements there, too. And I, you know, I appreciate that the neighbors have been really very, very vocal, uh, but very helpful. And you know, we're wanting to work with them. If we got to step the building a little bit here and there to to to make this uh to make this more palatable, uh we certainly can do that. And we can certainly push more parking uh below grade as well to reduce the amount of imperous uh surfacing and try to create more green space. There's there's lots of things we can do, but I think you all understand why we're here. There's so many different ways we could go with this and we just are asking for uh feedback and guidance. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And I think maybe Corey you can hit on this too and I believe what with what you told me we were originally at around two and a half feet higher um where we want from where we want it to be but I think I think we can come down. So, we're we're not really looking at um building it higher or needing a variance to build it higher. The only thing we're really talking about is the 160 ft. >> It's the architectural embellishment that >> I haven't gotten over the the phrase. >> Sorry. >> I had a shiver down my spine when he said architectural embellishments. >> They have they have purpose. I'm sorry. >> No, it's good. It's really good. Uh but I know so we'll pay attention to all of those details, you know, and uh you know, uh average grade to to those to those measurement points. We'll certainly continue to look at that and we'll be open and transparent with with you guys as as we get into it. But at this point, we don't feel uh that we're going to need need a height variance. >> Okay. >> Uh and so we feel that's beneficial. And just an interesting thing too, Alec, you know, you're 35 feet plus a 4ft parapit is 39. treating that very similar to to this type of architecture rather than favoring a more modern solution is something that would, you know, be be good to to talk about a little bit. But but either way, I think we can make it work. We can bring the burm or bring the the average grade up just a little bit higher. Some of you guys would know the term guard garden level where you've got grade outside your window that's maybe, you know, a foot or two down. We can certainly do things like that to to make sure that the building is sticking in the ground a little further than sticking out. That make sense? >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, could you pull up the slide with that option A, B, and C? Um. >> Yep. So I think you know um can you do you want to talk a little bit about what we're kind of like I I mean obviously it's up to you guys whatever you guys are thinking. We were leaning towards option B and doing a a PUD is kind of what that's what we were thinking would be a good option for um for this project. But uh we're definitely open to you know suggestions or anything like that. But um yeah, I just wanted to that be the last thing if you unless you guys have any more questions. >> So the key piece of feedback that the applicant's looking for is this is this the right place? Do you feel this is the right place for this this use? Right. So >> um that's key here. Right. That'll direct whatever happens for this piece of property in the future. Yeah, I know. I like the project. I just don't think it fits here. >> Why? Well, one is the emergency response in the neighborhood. I think it'd be a better fit. It's, you know, >> frequency. >> Yep. Frequency. Um, and just the look of it, you know, next to single family homes. I think if the area was maybe different than R2, it'd fit a little better. The density on it is quite a bit higher than R3. They're asking for a lot more for density. Um, yeah, it would, you know, we just talked about Main Street plan. I think it would fit well in the Main Street area. Granted, that's not available right now. Um, and talking about number of units, um, Norbella, how many units does NRBella have? cuz they're single level, right? >> It was a single level. Um 40. >> So if it was something smaller maybe, but it's pretty large and visually it just has an impact compared to the area. >> I guess I I keep going back to I mean there was significant opposition to the town home development and Personally, I think town homes would be a better fit in that area. >> And this this use is it's I mean, I can't I don't have the crystal ball for the emergency response, but they're going to be certainly quiet neighbors. It's not um you know, in terms of what a neighborhood would worry about it. They're not a high crime generator and um certainly not kids running everywhere and I don't know whatever else people worry about, but I mean I like the look of the project. I just >> Yeah, I'm not arguing with the look of it. I think it looks great. I would like to have it in Rogers. I just don't think it fits there. >> Whatever. I mean, what fits better in this space, you know? I Yeah. So, yeah, if I can go. So, I think I mean it kind of depends on on I feel like density is a bad word here. I get I get the concerns. I really do. The the the um it depends on your perspective. If if if you think if you feel transition is a lot of town homes budding out the property getting even denser than that maybe that's the transition. If you feel that it it's open space moving towards more developed imperous surface moving towards the west and south to Tucker and territorial then it could function as a transition. I think it it's a very stark difference though between this and R2 right. So I don't know if it's exactly transition, but as you move further to this to south um west here, the this area is guided for R4. So that's between four and and 15 units an acre. Um so that's um that I think the idea behind that district is a very flexible residential area that could contain multiple types of housing. um when you hear single family and apartments and then the stuff in between the what's you know duplexes or town homes things like that um so it's not an R5 where it's apartments right >> traditional zoning is you have your single family you have your two family and then you have your apartments right so you've got a lot missing in there um the senior housing in particular is not a I mean it's it's needed it's the needed use, right? So, it's just it's a different type of housing use than a market rate apartment where you've got quite a bit different traffic patterns, I would think, but we would know more once we have a traffic study for this particular senior housing. >> Well, and that's what I keep going back to. If I >> I'd certainly rather have this adjacent to my property than a town home development. And I I don't know what what else you're going to put in a parcel like that. And I look at it from a different viewpoint. I'm probably the oldest one here on the panel. And this is the type of facility I guess I would like to go into if I had to. One that has some nature around it, one that's in a quiet neighborhood, but I also look at it from the homeowner standpoint on the backside. What can we do to appease them? and what can we do to make it comfortable for both entities? As far as me, I' I'd like to see some more work put into this to see if there is things that can be done. Uh because I think it serves a benefit to the community. Um maybe moving the building over farther, getting rid of Hawkins is part of the solution. I don't know. But there's things that we can look at and I think we need to, you know, really focus on the neighbors to the back and what the effect on would be to future development to the west >> with the utilities there. Can it they move it over over Hopkins? I don't there's utilities there though. I don't think they can move it over Hopkins. >> Um again I like said it would be a study that we'd have to do. >> Homework they'd have to get done. It gives some flexibility for pavement. Um, for sure the parking parking plan itself could shift a little bit. I don't um because you can they can place easement. They can shift the parking lot over and then maybe there's some wiggle room over room for the building. Um, we wouldn't want a building over drainage utility easement. >> No, definitely not that. But I mean, do your homework. Figure out what you can and can't do. traffic study wouldn't take into consideration like emergency response, right? It would just be peak hours, >> peak, but I mean you're talking 40 trips. You know, maybe it's more because it's you're the mention share between different responders, but it's not it's looking at regular trip generation, not emergency every once in a while trip generation. >> Well, Shannon mentioned like St. Terres was did you say like 300 and some with police and >> Yeah. 300 >> over the year, right? So, >> more responsible. >> I I'm just saying maybe we should just evaluate that as part of the process. >> Certainly >> saying that we should just say no to it and >> let's do the math on it. question once and I back up to this know is there a time where I get to speak at some point >> I don't want to have a lot to say but this probably wasn't >> public this is this is not a public hearing right we've heard some questions from the audience if you want >> if you have a question or comment you want to make now you can but >> there was a These guys are doing their jobs. They bought this land the city about this. I think there's other parts places along 129th that are free a lot of recreation to the north that are going to be deal. And I just think this needs to be thought through a lot more. I don't think people understood 35 people that lived there 25 years and a half. We knew something was going. We had no idea 35t building and everybody. So these guys bought this no to change the zoning on them is pretty difficult. That's a hardship for them. I've been here 25 years. You guys changed the zoning on us without even really having us have been. So the rest I can wait for later but this is a problem that the city created by the NR3. It's not developers problem. This is a problem is going to happen along this different areas. >> I would say to that council fair to note though Alec the R3 zoning density doesn't allow what's being proposed here less than >> this is not a byite. This is not a a north view preserve application. and they came in well above minimum >> zoning density is or sorry the the medium density medium >> is maxes out at 11 acres this is beyond this is why a PUB request would need careful consideration about what what's the public benefit here what what need is being filled with this development and those those are all you can look at a wide range of reasons why you would want to see this project go through um the same consideration for why maybe you wouldn't want to see it go through, right? There's a wide range of of reasons why this would be a benefit, could be seen as a benefit or they're including elements in the site plan that are benefit to adjacent neighborhoods um or the community as a whole. Right? There's that's what a PUB is for for that. >> Great. >> America, could I jump in a little bit? I'm a resident of Oakwood Drive, so I pretty much can see it from my house, I think. And so, I've just been listening. I wasn't able to make the neighborhood meeting. Ironically, I was helping my mother move to a >> a home marketplace. So, I I >> I know in my heart the importance of um that service. I think just when I boil everything down, I think maybe the I I kind of like the use. I like your plan. The the maybe the hard part of all of this is the sheer size of it and where it is. Just swallowing that. I think a 30- foot high building is what is probably hard to swallow for all of us who live there and are going to look that direction. Having said that, um I was around when we entertained the other idea of town homes and there was significant opposition to that. And I go back to um maybe you don't, you know, if you had your full brothers, you'd have single family homes everywhere. And that's kind of sounds like what opinions are around, but if that's not the option, you look for what the best use of it is. And um I kind of echo what Mark said. It's versus town homes. I think this is a a pretty good use for it. And I like the quiet nature of it once it's built and in place. It has some different characteristics with emergency response and I get that. Um there's tradeoffs there. Um but I do think there's a genuine need for this kind of um facilities as well. and I to to address that I think is important. Um, unfortunately I wasn't at that meeting. I but the gist of what I heard from some of the common sense is they don't necessarily disagree with what you guys are trying to build. is just is something that sheer of a size a fit there and you know at first blush it's this open field and it's like gez anything big is kind of overwhelming but when I think about what some of the other options could be um this to me isn't so bad from in that perspective um and I don't know if I'm addressing folks that live on Oakwood if if you feel the same way but I have that kind of interest because I live nearby and I also can appreciate the types of services um you guys offer. So I all in all I I think I support the facility. I'm just trying to come to grips with kind of the sheer magnitude of size. And part of my process is what else would go there and is this not maybe better than some other options. And I think a reasonable approach is thinking what those others are. And unless we're prepared to reszone it to something else and pull the rug out from underneath what you guys have done, you know, let's try and get the best out of it. And um this adding land to just work the numbers is not I agree with you. Use that for something else, something better. Um but try and make the best use of the the site there. I just I've been kind of quiet listening to everyone, but that's what's been in the back of my mind. And I know ideally we'd like to a lot of folks you'd like to say leave it as is forever. That's just not practical. So get the what's what best serves this community. And I think um you guys in my opinion are on the right track there. So >> well I we need to make it clear though that this is a a PUB for a reason. I mean we're not pulling the rug out of anything because it it exceeds what R3 is anyway. Well, but we're not going to build single family homes there. >> Are we? >> I don't think it'll work on the site. >> It'd be another town home proposition to get to get the density where it needs to be. It would need to be >> tall as well. >> And I I uh I can't disagree with the zoning sentiments. and we're coming up on comp plan again and I don't have too much time left to input on that comp plan, but I I uh firmly believe that council needs I I'm guilty of not being as engaged in the last one as I should have been and really needs to be looked at hard and how these transition spaces work and where I mean I uh it was kind of messy. You were in the middle of >> Yeah. preco it was hours and hours on Zoom. >> Yeah. Um, so I I agree that it it needs to be managed, but I'm I'm just it's a tough little infill that I don't know what you're if it's not this, it's going to be another town home, >> right, >> proposition and I don't know what what it needs to be. I mean, I took this job knowing you're not going to make everybody happy. Um, but I I don't know what to say about it because you can't just keep stiff arming every development that comes in. Something something has to go. >> So if if that's a townhouse, the one you show, it's the same height, right? The railroad track by light, >> that would be the same height as this, correct? >> Would be similar. would be single >> close to the >> Yeah, but I'm talking like >> and even closer to the adjacent houses than this is >> I mean the reality is something's likely to go there. So it's not going to just sit there empty forever. our traffic. >> Yep. >> Um I know we did want to I wanted to address um something Amy that you had said um as far as the location goes. Uh we had talked a little bit about you know where are these units uh when we when we put these these you know assisted living complexes where are they best suited? like how do we how do we integrate those into, you know, a town and where would be the best place to do that? And most of the places that that Corey's done have have been in the middle of a just like this where you see the single family R1 houses. um it is better for um the elderly when when they're in there instead of like on a crowded street on a main street like so I I do want you to know like we're we're we are looking at at that aspect too. It is better for them. So that's why we were you know proposing this. It's it certainly is challenging. I mean, I I spent 16 years on planning and zoning, so I I've put in my time as well. And and what those poor people have to do is basically a game of sudukco. They slide this, they slide that. I mean, it's not it hardly ever works out where you can go R1 single family, R2 twin homes, R3, R4, R5, and everybody's happy. The the contours, it just doesn't work. Um sometimes economics don't work. The utility infrastructure forces that not to work. um the tax benefits of these districts don't work. And so it had it's very true that a lot I'd say 70% of of the assisted living facilities do find themselves amongst R1 as their neighbors. And as my dad said, uh I have to apologize. I was under a misunderstanding that that they were going to be bad neighbors. Um, a lot of uh fire departments and emergency response groups um once they hit the driveway um uh do go just lights, no siren. That's something they can do. That's a private drive. That's not proposed to be a city street. That could be something that maybe an SOP could could include. Um but yeah, I mean we're here for this same reason. I mean, quite frankly, any house that's built in the in any subdivision there can be 35 to 39 feet tall, the same height we're talking about, but they can be within 10, maybe five feet. I'm not sure if you do that here, but for sure 10T of a property line. You do? Yeah, you don't. >> So, 10 feet of a property line, but >> you know, and that's, you know, that's that's quite a different view. And another thing is when you have walkout lots, you can go two stories above grade. You can do a walk out basement. You can still your your dimension from the lowest level of that to the peak is actually well over 35 ft. And that's in a that's in an R1. Again, we're coming at this fresh. We're just trying to find something that was a fresh appeal on this that would be appealing, something your community needed. It's a lot that they had purchased and we felt that the the natural feel to it by creating a more a more compact design provided something that we felt was worth pitching to you and that's why we're here today and we thank you so much for your time. >> That would basically shield >> shielded from Yeah. Make a really nice Would you um be able to show that image again that showed where the plantings were at >> the site plan? >> The site plan with the well with the trees that landscaping >> and that's and that's very preliminary Amy. I mean that that BM can continue out there and then like I said if we if we actually can vacate Hawkins we can slide the building and then we can get a BM behind it >> as well so that we can try to do some screening. Well, >> that image would be really useful to see where the homes are positioned. Well, they're along the properties. They're on the north side and there's some like northeast there, too. It's an angle around the roads. >> Oh, I I understand. I'm just >> y >> proximity to the >> I mentioned that to my staff. So, they can do certainly do that. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other comments on this? We can forward over to the applicant. >> Is that what you shared today? Did you give us that? >> Yep. It's in um the conceptual plans has all of the visuals that were included in the the um the PowerPoint except for the original town home development. So, it has four plans and it's got the um this plan as well as those. >> I see I see that now. That was the one I didn't think I had, but I have it. >> Yeah. >> I guess I don't have any further comment. I feel like I need to think about it a little bit more, but um I think this point I've said what I think so far I mean I don't know I feel like we're still inconclusive but >> I think they want to know. So if they spend a lot of money on the PUD process >> saying we have to wait another two weeks. I'm saying that >> we can provide further details to Alec and we can say it in two weeks for sure, but um unless we want to just publicly say yes or no right now, >> like how we're leaning with the option of changing our minds later if we decide we want to. >> Yeah, >> sure it does. Jamie, >> you how were you leaning? Like do you think it's worth for them to spend money? >> I'm leaning forward. >> Okay. I mentioned I'm leaning towards No. But see, >> uh yes. Yeah, I'm I'm leaning forward on it because I like I said, if I live there, I you know, a town home or a typical higher density development would be less desirable than this. I mean, I tend to agree with you two that it would be more desirable than a town home development. And there was a lot of opposition to the town home development when that went forward. I would say this is preferable. So >> because beyond this what what would we >> we if this say this fails and now this town home development came forward this came forward what >> because the next thing would be a town home development and we can't keep saying no to everyone >> especially if it comes in and it's within our what did you say? So I don't I don't know what the logical next option is for this property >> because if something comes forward and it's exactly within our zoning go I mean it can just go forward if somebody comes in with exactly the right thing >> 100T closest point to the east property line is 100t Say mayor, >> our attorney would like >> Yeah, Mayor, if I can just I I get a little concerned about too much of a a true straw poll. I mean, I understand you'd be sort of expressing general positive sentiments or negative sentiments about what's being proposed. you the reason I'm saying that I just want to be totally transparent about it is of course as one of your residents in the audience has pointed out to the extent this moves forward there will be public hearings or at least a public hearing as I understand what's being proposed and so you need to hear from folks that may have other ideas about this before you vote so of course you're not voting now you're expressing your views on the the plan and that's the whole point of a site plan process that you're going so just want to clean up clean up the record of that so y >> publicly we're saying that we are okay with it moving forward, not that we're saying we're going to just say it's perfect, >> right? >> Good. >> Do you need anything else, Alec? >> No, that was that's just what I needed. Thank you very much. >> Okay. All right. Well, we have no other business. Correspondence and reports are online. So, we are adjourning to a close session to um give our city administrator his performance review. We do.