yeah we'll get going then good morning good morning ray and welcome to the glendale city council budget workshop session of february 2nd 2021 the meeting is called to order i will now conduct an attendance roll call please signify by saying president council member al dahman president council member clark here council member malinar present councilmember thomas here council member turner president i'm vice mayor hugh i'm here and the chairman the mayor is excused i want to get right into uh to the presentation fiscal year 2122 budget workshop well good morning mayor members vice mayor members of the council again as always we appreciate the extra time that you all individually invest through our budget process we're really excited today about kicking off the discussion around the cip so i'd like to kind of back up first and and talk about during my first five budget pres preparations what's different this year than in past years so typically the way we've done it and if you recall last year we presented around the mid part of march we came to you with a the first part of it looking at our general obligation and then we had we looked at our enterprise funds and we kind of broke it down into different sections some of the feedback the council provided was that they they requested to see all of the cip on the kind of the front end and so what you saw then on the materials that were delivered to you earlier this week is a kind of the entire first stab at a at a cip at a draft cip the second thing that the council provided feedback on was that if you recall as we started having workshops on the cip as the council started reaching consensus on making changes to the proposed cip we would have to change out documents out of your book and one of the feedback that we heard from council members was it got a little bit confusing of whether they're looking at the most current sheet of information or the old information so today a couple things are different one we're starting this process six weeks earlier than in past budget years we've scheduled a number of additional cip workshops to help assist the council and making sure that when you get to a budget time that it's your cip that you understand and approve one of the things we're going to do today is that the team has put together a new tool that we'll be delivering to the council and what this tool will allow you to do is it will have all of the cip information broken down by fund and it will show you what's in the you know kind of the the just the proposed draft cip it then will allow you on your own to be able to move things what we kind of call above or below the funding line because we have a fixed amount of of resources that we can spend in the current year and in in the out years on our budget and so what allow you to do to say well if i don't like this project and i want to i want to put this in year three but i want to prioritize a project in year two and get it into year one it allow it'll this tool will allow you to move it up it's a it's a spreadsheet that allows you to move information up and below the line so that then you can kind of work on your own uh in between workshops to start coming up with what will be ideas you think would be an improvement to the cip plan and then what we'll do is as we start reaching consensus on decisions being made staff will update that spreadsheet and send it to you with the more updated information so it'll be just something we can electronically send to you and then you can you can make changes the changes you make on your uh spreadsheet won't affect the what we're keeping here so it allows you really to play through a whole different set of scenarios going forward so we think this is going to be a really effective tool for you to start understanding because what we want to do is keep out of going red the minute you start moving too many projects proposed in the cip and we start seeing a red number develop below that's telling you we don't have identified either cash or bonding authority to be able to do that so again we're we're excited the vicki lissette and amy have put a lot of effort into really trying to redo how we put our budget process together we a couple things we probably should have done uh one when we sent you the entire information this past friday we failed to tell you that what we're going to look at today are just four areas of that because we have other workshops planned so today we'll be focusing on public safety transportation flood control and libraries the next workshop the we'll we'll get into the other elements that's there so we'll kind of move you through that the um so then the final thing is is that what we want to do too is give you we we will provide you this week with a a complete list of all of the the cip changes of what staff has has recommended that's different than in the cip from last year for today all four of the people that will that represent their divisions will can kind of walk you through what they have proposed differently in the cip um and you can ask them questions but we'll provide you with an actual written list as well so you'll have that this week as well and so with that i'd like to turn it over to our assistant city manager vicky rios and and also obviously lizette camacho and amy lindsay will be here to assist okay councilman thomas i do um gosh i really wish i would have known what we were going to be going over today i i'm honestly stunned that this that you guys did that to us that you give us this whole book and then it's like well there's only four things we're going to need to need to deal with today um i i mean i spent my weekend i feel like being a private detective trying to figure out where what happened to projects what where the money came from where it's going we shouldn't have to be a private detective to try to figure this out i mean i'm looking at just for example thunderbird park last year there's no money uh in any year except for 20 2026 through 2030 11 629 11 million 629 thousand dollars that now this year it's one million in 2023 three little over three million in 2024 for a total of four million seven point six million dollars i don't know where that went there's literally no i don't even know how we're supposed to i just really disappointed that we didn't have all the information and that we're trying to figure out what's going on here i'm feel completely unprepared and i don't like feeling unprepared uh vice mayor councilmember tom trump again um as i said we are doing an entirely rewrite of how we do the cip we'll take notes in this we've already discussed this internally it was our error we apologize for that that wasn't our intent was to have you feel like we would address the entire cip in one meeting we had notified the council that we had scheduled for cip workshops but we just didn't you know we should have broken it down tell you what the four are today what we can do is focus on those four areas we will have our directors here that will be able to answer questions for you what's in there and then again we'll make sure that um that we communicate a little bit better again our apologies that wasn't our intent what we're trying to do and the team has worked incredibly hard is to take feedback from the council and try to get better at what we do and so this is an entirely new effort especially giving you a tool to be able to move things around and to see what the implications are but clearly uh we can we can do better and we'll work towards doing that nice man councilman returner uh thank you i'd like to echo the comments of the other council member but also just to add to it we all appreciate the hard work our staff does especially well on everything but we we know that budget's a really concentrated effort that you'll go through and i'll say this not only to budget staff but and i'm sure to some degree you do but always try and you know stop for a minute and go if i was a council member what would i need to know to be able to make the best decision here you know put yourselves in our shoes and and that i think will help to produce to bring forward the communication that needs to happen i've heard from others they're a little startled about the program today but just you know just do that for us if you would thank you thank you vice mayor thank you great uh thank you mr phelps thank you council uh next slide please listen so as mr phelps kind of alluded to our presentation today we're going to give you first a kind of an overview of the cip um it's material that most of this council or if not all of you have seen before but for the public's benefit we go back through it every year just to remind everyone what is a capital improvement plan and then today we're going to specifically focus on general obligation bonds for streets flood control library and public safety and so the format of each section as we go through it will be to show you what projects we have that council has already seen that were in last year's adopted cip that we have enough bonding authority to complete and then after that we'll show you as you go through what projects staff has prioritized and put forward on the basis of studies and other materials that council is also aware of that we would recommend going forward with but that we don't have enough bonding authority for that's to give you an idea of when you might need to do a bond election again and then we'll um uh that then would as i said or as kevin said the um staff will be prepared to answer uh all of your uh questions if there are questions that we can't answer today we'll certainly take note of them and be prepared to answer them uh either during the week or by the next meeting and then we're going to bring up the infamous as we used to call it the yellow worksheet that you've seen before as kevin said this worksheet kind of shows you in particular related to general obligation bonds what where you have authority how much capacity you have to issue debt and where you do and do not have enough authority again it's a tool as mr phelps mentioned that we're going to send you so you can also play with it and see in any given year if you push a project forward or back how it impacts your capacity to issue debt which means your ability to pay off the debt and what voter authorization you have so that's kind of the format of today's presentation um and with that i'll turn it over to amy she's going to start the first part vice mayor house member clark yes remaining on that slide under geo streets what is the current capacity and in the proposal that we will be presenting from staff today is all of that capacity expended in the presentation that you will be making this morning and the same question goes for flood control library and public safety mayor vice mayor members of the council if you'll allow us a little bit of grace to get to that you'll see that right away as we go through this presentation okay uh thank you miss rios as as kevin and vicki both mentioned earlier we have the cip budget workshops broken down into areas within the capital improvement plan as you can see on the calendar in front of you today's presentation is going to cover streets flood control libraries and public safety general obligation bond-funded cip projects the workshop on february 16th will cover additional geo bond funded cip projects in parks open space cultural facilities and general government the march 2nd workshop we will cover pay-as-you-go transportation sales tax herf development impact fees and grants and the workshop on march 16th we will discuss enterprise-funded cip projects and then present the draft cip to council uh vice mayor question go ahead what is the drop dead date that um council would have to settle on what the final cip would look like is it march 2nd 19th or 30th mayor i mean vice mayor members of the council um [Music] there isn't the drop dead date for making changes would really be the final adoption of the budget ideally however we would be through by april 20th so that we'd be have a draft cip and have all of that information ready for the schedules to be published for the tentative adoption of the budget in may so we have a lot of time we've scheduled these workshops up front to get done because we also have the operating budget to do but in terms of a drop dead date we have all the way until we frankly until we pass the final budget you can make changes as long as the budget doesn't go higher than what you adopted at tentative follow-up question in terms of practicality though i would imagine that we will conclude with items within the cip by the end of march because i know the april meetings are about the operating budget um so would it be it'd be fair i'm i'm just trying to figure out as you present information to us and as we discuss this when we would be comfortable in finalizing just the cip portion of the budget of the proposed budget vice mayor members of the council again per this schedule ideally we would be done around march the 30th however that's not a drop dead date we still have time after that in fact we could be discussing still cip at that at those budget workshops that are now designated for operating budgets but we want to give council the time that they need so we we've put together this outline if we need additional workshops or we need additional time it can be added as long as we're ready by tentative adoption of the budget thank you i did want to just tell you one more thing while we're on the calendar it's just a little bit of information about the cip in general the reason why we go through these categories in the way that we do and you'll see geo bonds and then you see the excuse me the pay-as-you-go transportation sales tax herf and we break it down in this way is because for the cip to balance and us to find the funding for these projects each one of these balances independently so in other words the amount of funding that we have for geo bonds balances we have to balance that and then we have to balance for herf and then we have to balance first transportation sales tax so you'll see as we go through we've kind of laid that out for you but i did want to just mention it again up front that in terms of trying to develop the cip each of these we balance everything together but each of these individual funding sources has to balance in and i'm going to turn it back over one second councilmember turner uh just a quick easy one could you see that each of us get a copy of that slide that has the detail for us on what the topics are for the upcoming yes sir absolutely we we did revise this line we'll make sure you have a copy of it elements of a capital improvement plan they're usually assets valued over fifty thousand dollars and have a useful life of five years or more typically their buildings street improvements uh water treatment plants large equipment land purchases things of that nature the city has a 10-year capital improvement plan but the first year so fiscal year 2122 is the only portion of the cip that is actually appropriated and the projects that are in years one through five typically have identified funding sources the city's financial policy is to improve existing assets replace existing assets as needed and then construct new assets these are funding sources within the capital improvement plan enterprise funds are typically debt services paid from water sewer fee revenue and can also come from bonds revenue bonds revenue obligations or cash financing a landfill is paid by user fees as well as solid waste general obligation bonds which is what we're discussing today is debt issued the debt issued has to be authorized by the voters streets public safety parks government facilities open space and trails libraries and flood control and the debt service is paid by secondary property tax pays you go projects are cash funded transportation sales tax is the half cent sales tax that the city has and it is used to improve service of all modes of transportation highway user revenue funds is a restricted special revenue fund that can be for right-of-way acquisition reconstruction construction repair and maintenance development impact fees are one-time charges to developers for new development and must be used on new or expanded infrastructure and grants are typically federal or state grant state funded and often require a match contribution for the project and with that i'll turn it over to ms camacho good morning vice mayor members of the council as mr phelps said this is the first time we provided a draft cip before at the beginning of our cip budget workshops the cip binders you have in front of you don't include the carryover for projects that will not be completed at the end of the fiscal year 2021. the carryovers will be added to the cip projects in april before the final budget workshop throughout this presentation you'll hear us vice mayor question councilmember clark might i make a suggestion with regard to carryover i know that you're waiting till april to add carrie over because you'll have a better number but i would appreciate it if i could get a draft initial number realizing that between now and april that number may diminish and i think that would be helpful to know thank you vice mayor councilmember clark members of the council we can certainly do that the presentation you'll hear us use two terms capacity and authorization the capacity is what we refer to as the amount of debt we can issue while keeping the levy flat so it's essentially the ability to pay off the debt without raising the secondary property tax authorization or voter authorization are the authorization that the voters have approved in previous elections to issue debt as far as the late layout of the presentations what you'll see us go through is is that we've broken out the projects by three categories the first one are projects that council have already seen and have approved have been approved through the fiscal year 2021 adopted cip the other two categories are staff recommendations that are based on studies and assessments like the pavement condition index public safety facility condition assessment that was presented to city council back in december of 2019 the recommendations are also based on what we've heard as council priorities and previous council meetings and meetings department meetings with the city council councilmember thank you vice mayor i don't want to take you too far back but with with regard to the question that council member clark had on the fiscal 21 carryover i just want to be clear for those who are watching but even for myself those are carryover funds from projects that either weren't completed or even started is that correct vice mayor councilmember aldama members of the council they're projects that either have started during the fiscal year that will not be completed at the end of the fiscal year so they have remaining funding that will need to be carried over to the next fiscal year you complete those projects vice mayor comes to member aldamar members of the council yes that is correct okay thank you so much for the clarification and then with with the information that councilmember clark asked for in that information would be why the project didn't finish i'm sure there's some really good reasons why they didn't get completed or even started would you have that information in there vice mayor councilmember aldama members of the counselor we can certainly work with the departments to gather that information i think that'd be very helpful thank you so much thank you vice mayor welcome councilmember tom and shaw thank you i'm a little confused though because for example ballpark boulevard my favorite topic showed in last year's cip 1 million 257 600 in fiscal year 2021 it's not we don't even have carryover information and now it's showing fiscal year 2022 that ex exact same dollar amount so is that not a carryover it should have been spent in already mayor members of the council if i might um we're going to get through here in a minute and bring up streets and when we get there we'll have mr eversole come up and he can probably answer that question i'm trying to understand vice mayor if i could the carryover scenario though because you just said that it's not projects that have not begun projects that are underway that would be carry over but this is i mean i'm just curious so i just want to understand what is and does not carry over using that council there is no carryover so if you see funding in a year it's new funding if i could so there was a 1.2 million in 2021 and another 1.2 million in 2022 that wasn't in last year's cip vice mayor councilmember thomas members of the council mr evil sore iber soul is here to answer that question vice mayor and members of the council this is a two-part project so we're having to coordinate with the bureau of reclamation on this project so it's it is you can view it as a carryover amount it's the same project it's being it just was reallocated to the next year because we're we're in a substantial delay with the bureau of reclamation um and uh other entities to get the project moving so the funding was just moved to the next year okay so i'm i'm completely confused now because that would seem to be a carryover so i just i just i'm just using that as an example because i want to understand what what is and is not a carryover so i mean based on what you're telling us it shouldn't even be showing here until you bring us the carryover information in april so mayor members of the council we haven't we haven't had an opportunity to go and look at carryover in the example that mr ebersole just described un sort of unbeknownst to budget at this point in time because we haven't or they haven't done the carryovers yet what you will see for that project is no spending and and or very little spending and no carryover and then the money is being pushed out into another period of time so once we have the carryover it'll be effectively whatever it will zero out the carryover and move the funding back out so that that's a very unusual case where you you have the department saying well we're not going to do this until later and so where they pushed it out and so the carryover on that project is likely to be zero because we have it new in a new year but budget and finance hasn't had the opportunity to work with the departments to look at carryover carryover is typically again a project that has been started they've spent some of it and we need to carry over the rest into a new year what we're hearing from mr eversole is instead the department pushed it out an additional into an additional period they're just so so for the time being anything that would be considered carryover is showing as a fiscal year 2022 just in this case i'm not i'm still not clear what mayor members of the council again i think this is an exception to the rule uh and we were not aware of that until just now when mr eversol said that so and we haven't looked at all the carryover the carryover is not in there yet and so in general with this possible exception if you see funding there it's new funding in 22. okay thank you okay go ahead this slide is the chart of the draft 10-year cip by funding source as you can see the largest component is the enterprise funds at 469 million the next largest category is the geo bonds at 364 million and the third largest category is transportation sales tax at about 116 million as you can see the draft cip is very large at about 1.2 billion and what we've done for this presentation is we've broken out the projects by funding sources and for today's presentation we'll be covering general obligation bonds and as ms rio stated before we further broken down general obligation bonds by the various voter authorization so for today we will be discussing streets flood control library and public safety in the next meeting in february 16th we will be reviewing geo bonded cip projects for parks open spaces cultural facility and government facilities as you saw in the calendar we also have three budget workshops in march on march 2nd we will review pay as you go transportation hearth development impact fees and grants and on march 16 we'll do the enterprise funds landfill solid waste and water wastewater march 30th we'll do the follow-up to cip and also have the updated draft cip for council consideration this slide is the chart on the remaining voter authorization by categories the landfill the first one on this list and the water and sewer the bonds that will be issued by the two enterprise funds will be paid for by user fees within those enterprise funds the first column that you're seeing is the current remaining geo bond voter authorization by category we do have a plan to issue geo series 2021 in march of this year the ordinance will be moving forward for council consideration at the february 23rd voting meeting the very last column is the remaining geo by vice just one second thank you would you explain what it is exactly in february you're going to be asking us to do vice mayor councilmember clark members of the council on february the ordinance to approve the issuance of the new go bonds no money for cultural facility public safety streets and parking open space parks and recreation and flood control projects will be moving forward for council approval is that based upon the last year's approved cip mayor vice mayor council member clark members of the council yes it is based on the fiscal year 21 cip and you'll see the projects in the um the yellow worksheet too so you'll be able to see um which projects they are okay thank you house member thomas thank you uh what what kind of projects are eligible under economic development so what we've done before with economic development are the projects for the streets and parking around the 101 where the ikea was supposed to be located at so those types of projects so it's something that would spur on economic development and just to add to that vice mayor members of the council we can get you the specific ballot language for that we don't have that today but if you'd like to see that we we can give you the specific ballot language that was passed for economic development to have it because i'm wondering whether that um would be a way to address the amphitheater with that whether that would qualify as a way to fund that thank you the next several slides will will go through the streets geo bond funded cip projects there are two types of street projects non-capital street maintenance and also the arterial reconstruction reconstruction program what you're seeing on this slide are the non-capital street maintenance which we also refer to as the pavement management plan the maintenance of repairs usually last five to seven years and they're not eligible for bond funding all roadways in the city are included in the program and usually the work that's done is less invasive than the street reconstruction it does require coordination with residents parking and utilities and some examples of non-capital street maintenance are crack and fog sealing slurry seal fractured aggregate surface treatment or fast and mill and overlay the next slide is the focus of the um the presentation today for geo bond funded streets project it's the arterial reconstruction program the arp is um usually the life of the the street typically lasts 25 or more years they are eligible for bond funding and it has and the projects will enhance traffic capacity and safety we also add some american with disabilities across brought through current standards and it does also require coordination with business access traffic flow other cities and departments and utilities and when the projects are completed usually the repairs and maintenance they are moved into for the pavement management program this slide is um refers to the council workshop back in june 23rd 2022. if you recall at the at that workshop i meant 2020 if you recall at that mark workshops city council had consensus to move or change funding for 15 million of arterial reconstruction projects from transportation sales tax to general obligation bonds the arp is our capital in nature and they do qualify for bond funding and in the next few slides we'll you'll see which projects are related to the 15 million that was moved from transportation sales tax to general obligation bonds councilmember turner how's the determination made as to whether or not a particular street treatment is eligible for um the capital program for the up in the go bonding vice mayor council member turner members of the council mr ebersole will add to my answer if i don't cover it all but for the most part what they do is they look at the pavement condition index they also coordinate with other utilities and they've also taken into consideration completion of the projects in light of the mega events that are coming here at the city so super bowl and other events so more specifically thank you for that miss camacho but vice mayor my question is more on this uh one slide back i'm looking at other examples of non-capital street maintenance but if our capital program is defined as projects that are over fifty thousand dollars and last longer than five years certainly things like mill and overlay and these surface treatments would fall into that category so i'll just need a little clarification please mayor excuse me vice mayor members of the council for a project to be eligible for bond funding are we ask that the life of the project be more than the i mean sorry the life of the project be equal to or less than the um or more than the life of the bond so in other words if the treatment to the road is going to extend its useful life for another 25 years then we will issue bonds for 25 years or 20 years if it's a five-year extension and we're going to have to do it again in five to ten years we typically do not issue bonds for those because you would be paying off bonds over 25 years for something that only lasted five to ten years does that answer your question uh yes mrs rios it does it's kind of like putting your washing machine in on your home mortgage exactly but still i would say that perhaps milan overlay might be a treatment that could be considered longer term go ahead yes mayor councilmember i've worked with finance and gaspi general accounting standards from feds with reference to how you define a reconstruction such as bondable and we we've many times tried to insert mill and overlay and have not been able to do that there's a gray area when you start dealing with the base once you get into the base of the reconstruction um there's a a general determination on if you do enough of that base it's a reconstruction but i can tell you that the the pendulum moves through the years with reference to gaspi and how they take a look at that but uh i've never been able to bond a typical mill an overlay okay thank you councilmember tom and chad thank you vice mayor so is that a basically an internal policy we that we have a best practice i just want to understand the rationale for that yeah mayor councilmember thomas shot that that is not an internal policy at all again the oversight and vicki can talk more about our bond council advising us but it's clearly uh and it goes city by city throughout the country when we talk about these treatments uh it's a it'd be a wonderful thing to do to try to get mill and overlays into that system because they're so expensive and it's usually cash and carry but it's been pretty near impossible to do that vicki might want to add to that with reference to what the regulations are yes vice mayor members of the council it is a it is considered to be a best practice and it is also see how to put this it is also difficult to sell to bond uh potential bond buyers that you are in the habit of financing with long-term bonds maintenance type of projects so when you go out to sell the bonds you list out all of the projects that you're going to do and if the bond potential bondholders don't agree with that and what you're doing with the bonds then your bonds will not be sold so it's both a best practice and as mr um friedline alluded to um it's both it's part of our generally accepted accounting principles that are put out by gasby and in addition to that is just a a best practice the projects you see on this slide have been previously approved by the city council as the fiscal year 21 cip was adopted the streets projects begin on page 155 of your binder so it does have a tab we don't have any individual slides for each of the streets projects because the the project description are going to be very similar for each of the the intersection in which the project is to construct or reconstruct a segment of streets so with that i'll pause here to see if council has any questions on the specific projects on this slide any questions uh vice mayor i have one you you referred us to page 155 within the cip binders that we were given on friday afternoon um are all of these projects that are listed and there are considerable number of them under geo funding or are they various funding sources vice mayor councilmember clark members of the council they're under geo bond funding okay so if i could clarify i'm sorry let me make sure vice mayor excuse me councilmember clark can you repeat your question please yes you you gave us a binder right after doing with and it starts on streets projects start on page 155 and there are a lot of projects listed it looks like you've gone to a new system and you're pulling out and identifying individual streets for either arterial work or reconstruction now my question is and maybe it's answered by summary by funding source but are all of these projects under the go funding source or are part of them funded under transportation sales tax or herf or whatever vice mayor consumer clark members of the council the projects have other funding sources so if you flip on page 159 it is the summary by funding source so you can see looking at the various funding sources that are funding the projects and i will do an example for you so if you look at page before let's just look at page 159 you list all the funding sources except go general obligation i see highway user transportation sales tax streets construction herf capital transportation capital diff diff diff where's the go funding that we're going to be talking about this morning vice mayor councilmember clark members of the council the the geo bond funded projects are the um the streets construction projects so that would be 40 10. forty ten yes you are okay thank you and on page the following page on page 160 the pavement management is a good example of a project you can see that it's funded by multiple funding sources you see that the construct category or construction category the funding source is fund 2050 or highway user gas tax so it's herf and then a portion of that is 2070 which is the transportation sales tax so all of the projects will have the same information the funding source column will tell you which funding source the project is using if i may add to that vice mayor so if you look at the next we'll look at page 161 as another example that project is the one council member tommeltroff referred to a little bit earlier that is funded with streets development impact fees and so because today we're talking about general obligation bonds we're not covering that project today that project will be covered we're certainly able to answer some questions about if you have them but the way we have this broken out it'll be covered when we cover development impact fees if that kind of helps everyone understand the methodology that we're using to go through these projects vice mayor i guess it's a difference between apples and oranges i understand your rationale for just reviewing go projects but when a program such as streets has different authorization funding sources it might also at least for me it would it was helpful to go through all of the streets projects regardless of a funding source um and i don't know how you split the baby and solve that but i think to divvy up streets between transportation sales tax and herf and go kind of makes it schizophrenic at least for me thank you the next three vice mayor let me continue for example and this is where my confusion arises i'll just give you an example when we get to page 165 which is street reconstruction bethany home road 43rd to 51st i believe that's a gofunded project although it doesn't say on the page it just describes the project and gives it a number yeah 40 40 10 it comes from fun 4010 but most people wouldn't know that okay so this is a go funded project and it's legitimate to review it and ask questions about it today but there might be another project in here that's also a streets project that's not funded by 4010 and we would not be discussing it or for example 67th avenue bike lanes is 40 30 comes from transportation capital so we would not be asking any questions about 67th avenue bike lanes today is that correct vice mayor members of the council you're certainly able to answer i mean excuse me ask whatever questions you have we have the department directors here to answer those questions i did want to clarify also when we talk about go funding that's an acronym that we use for transportation sales tax funding so we we try to distinguish go funding from g.o bond funding so i just want to be a little bit cautious about that because they are very similar and i make that mistake myself on occasion the slide presentation that we have today is focused on geo bond funding the yellow worksheet that we're going to bring up for council to kind of see where we are is all based on g.o bond funding each of these funding sources has to be balanced separately now behind the scenes staff is also balancing in total and so for an example for that let me just say and i don't have a specific project in front of me but if a project has multiple funding sources and one of them is general obligation bonds but another is we'll say for example development impact fees and council wants to move the geo bond funding portion of that project forward behind the scene staff will have to go back and see okay can we balance that diff portion of the same project within our capital so it is very complica complex and complicated we've tried to break it down in this way because we have to as a city balance this general obligation bond program with those things in mind that if this project has multiple funding sources we're going to have to go back and see the other funding sources that go with it can they also be moved forward or pushed back which raises uh an interesting follow-up question say hypothetically you wanted to move a project out of go funding and assign it to transportation sales tax funding for example is that possible vice mayor members of the council it may be possible but because that would be very complicated you'd have to ask us and say well this is what we would like to do and then we'd have to go back to another model that we have for transportation sales tax and see if that's affordable within that model so the answer is you can but we need we would need to know that that's what you want to do and then we can go to give you an answer later we can't answer that question on the fly at the workshop okay one more follow-up based upon what you just said so is your criteria for to make a project eligible to be moved from one funding source to another that there is authorization or capacity left within that fund or and and that's the reason for your approval or denial or recommendation of approval or denial of moving a project from one funding source to another what is your criteria for consideration of moving a project from say go funding to transportation sales tax vice mayor members of the council there would be a couple of things that we would need to look at the first is is that a project that is eligible for that funding source so in other words if we i'm not suggesting that council would do this but if we had a park project we couldn't move it into streets transportation sales tax so the first thing is is an ineligible project for those restricted type of funding source and then the second is is it affordable within the funding that we have in that for that source so those are the two things we would be looking at but it could be affordable for example if a project say within transportation sales tax were moved back a year or two that would free up capacity for that current year and then that project becomes affordable within transportation sales tax funding if it were eligible mayor vice mayor members of the council that's correct but that's part of the reason why we would have to take it back from council with some type of consensus to look at that and then we would go back into different financial models that we have and see if we can let's just say you wanted to do it next year and you wanted to move it there and if we couldn't fund it next year because of competing priorities we'd have to come back to council and say well yes we can fund it but it only if we could push it out a year so we that's what i'm doing those that work kind of behind the scenes and you would bring that information to us mayor members of council correct thank you thank you vice mayor councilmember thomas thank you um this i'm one just want to understand we referred to page 161 so how and this is kind of along the same line of questioning how is it determined which projects are going to be which diff fees are going to be used for which projects i don't think i don't recall rarely anyway being any part of those conversations so i mean how is it determined that that diff fees and which what diff fees are being used for for example this ballpark boulevard connectivity whatever that is um vice mayor members of the council um these projects and the way you're seeing them now are staff recommendations and again there are a couple things that we would look at the first we would look at is is the project diff eligible is it considered expansion and growth related project is it in the right area as you can see here these are streets diff east and so we have to look at what zone is it in and is it within the zone that that diff was collected and then finally we would have to look at how much diff we either currently have or have projected that could fund that particular project and then we would make this recommendation to council that we fund this project via diff because it's eligible for the type of project it's in the right area and we have what we believe to be the funding available so um how how does the council know what type of div fees are even available for what projects we don't have that information may or may be this is a recommendation from staff because you know what diff fees are available for what type of projects but we don't know that may or members of the council we can certainly provide that information we we do do a diff report that is available at the end of every fiscal year so we have one for uh the end of uh june 30th of 2020 but we can update that and get it out to you if you'd like thank you i have one more if i could vice mayor um and the other thing i'm not sure what the that the grand total amount is at ballpark boulevard but i know as a result of ballpark boulevard that we asked to have a policy adopted and i don't believe we ever ever came back to us that if a project exceeded 10 it's 10 contingency that it needed to be brought back to council for at a workshop for an explanation and approval to move forward so i don't know i'm guessing that ballpark boulevard is surpassed as 10 contingency a long time ago um and we never adopted that policy i would like to have that happen i believe there i remember there was a consensus to do that not saying that the council wouldn't approve moving forward with projects but you know ballpark boulevard started out at six million dollars i think it's somewhere around 13 14 million it might even be more than that now um but so that we can have an understanding of what's happening why it's costing more all of that that if it exceeds the 10 contingency that was part of the initial approval it come back in a workshop to present what the issues what issues it's you know are coming up and causing it to to increase the cost and get a approval to move forward beyond the contingency with the council so i don't believe that's happened with ballpark boulevard and i am um just curious about that councilman ron dominic thank you vice mayor um yeah i want to echo the comments of council member tomlinson with regard to diff funds but question didn't the legislature change how we can use diff funds so we can use them outside of its development so with that said yes we absolutely need to have a separated not necessarily a workshop but pamphlet that speaks to where the money come from where's it going and yeah councils should have their hands in that i can appreciate our staff bringing some recommendations but the council member is absolutely correct and i echo those statements that we need to really be involved in the uh the div funds where they're going what we're going to do with them where they come from so i just want to echo those comments thank you okay thank you the next three slides are staff recommendations again based on the pavement condition index coordination with other utilities and what we've heard from council as council priorities the projects you're seeing on this slide are the 15 million that council had consensus back in june to move from transportation sales tax to general obligation bond funding by approving this pro the list this listing of projects the full 15 million dollars it will use up all of the authorization in transportation our streets the next two slides are staff recommended projects again approval of this projects will require additional voter authorization through a bond election i did want to point out the very last thing on this list that's the scallop street program scallop streets are either missing a full width of pavement curve and gutter sidewalk in one or both sides they are typically the result of county islands being annexed undeveloped or properties with anticipated development and this slide is the last slide on the staff recommended street projects that will require additional voter authorization pause here to see if council has any specific questions on any of the um this projects any questions vice mayor yeah not necessarily projects but i just wanted to confirm i the amount of uh revenue generated by our our go tax our half cent sales tax um i think based on some other um i went through all the minutes from last year's budget meetings and i think we were told when we discussed the the temp the the 7 10 sales tax that every 0.1 is 6 million dollars so does this the half cent generate about 30 million a year i just wanted to understand what that dollar amount was um vice mayor members of the council if you'll give us just a minute we'll get you that figure thank you so with that we'll turn i'll turn it over to the yellow worksheet i'll pull it up on the screen here and then do we not have the yellow worksheet mayor members of the council you you do not that's something that we're going to send you um here during this week but you're pulling it up right now that's correct it's an interactive worksheet it reflects the same information that was given to you in these slides but in this case because it's interactive if you want us to show you what the impact would be of moving a project or something like that we can we can show you and as mr phelps alluded to we'll send this out and then you can also move projects around and kind of for lack of a better description play with it develop different scenarios on your own if you'd like yeah while staff is doing that uh councilmember tom chop brought up something that i brought up last year in the the year previous um there was no conversation about it i talked about i think councilmember clark also talked about uh and ms rios does have the the dollar amounts what would it take to start reducing the sales tax incrementally ms rios brought that information we also talked about reducing the food tax ms rios has that information we don't have those robust conversations we're in a we're currently in a pandemic so i would i would be very supportive in looking at reducing our food tax that's what people need the most right now and so we haven't had those robust conversations so i will ask again that we need to look at that we need to look at it every single year and have that robust conversation but even more so we need to look at it this budget session so i'm asking while we're pausing here that we put that into our budget mass and city manager to look at both of those and ms rios has those numbers and i'm sure they'll change from from last year thank you mr vice mayor yes council uh councilman obama i mean it's a it's it doesn't take anything it's a policy issue the council if you say we want to reduce our sales tax by this amount we can give you what the financial impact of that amount would be and then we would probably have to go in and start identifying potential cuts within you know within our programs so that you can balance that out our five-year forecast that we present to the council assumes the existing level of taxation and the rates are assumed in our five-year model if we make a change that then obviously to just out all those revenues and then that affects our operating budget and and how we would go forward so we can certainly have that discussion but really it's just it is a uh what we could do is if the council wants to see what the impact would be than not what we can do either as a council item a special interest or just as part of the process we can say if we reduce food tax by this much here's how much general fund is impacted by and then as we then develop our operating budget we're going to have to make assumptions of reducing programs perhaps ftes other areas and we'd work with the council on where to prioritize those cuts at or i think the other option would be and i think you do mention that you know we are in a pandemic you know what you could do is do a as an example council could do a temporary reduction of the sales tax and use your your reserves as the way to backfill that knowing that once things normalize back into the economy that the the sales tax gets restored you could use that's what a general fund reserve balance can be used for so there's a couple different scenarios that are there but whatever we do on reducing tax rates does have an impact then in terms of our budget adoption our creation process vice mayor thank you vice mayor um yes it was an item of interest of mine but there was no conversation what you just outlined is exactly what has to happen this council yes is who instructs you to do it we can simply say cut the budget and you'll come back but we have to have a robust conversation we need to start having it now before you start to structure the budget excluding it we need to see what the budget looks like with those cuts is it a one percent cut across the board for every department where is the money going to come from it's going to make it up you're absolutely right take away here out here i get it it's a teeter-totter there but we haven't had that conversation so i'm asking now and if i have to ask it as an item of interest we need to have the conversation every year but we are at the top of our budget i'm asking the council to consider looking at that and what and how do we give it i think it was a million dollars if it's a million dollars how do we trim a million dollars both of those food tax and sales tax we owe it to our citizens to at least look at it and they need to hear from us whether we decide to do it or not thank you thank you vice mayor councilmember thomas thank you vice mayor i think if i remember does the food tax generate around 14 15 million a year somewhere in that neighborhood um but um i agree that it's something we should look at i don't know whether there would be a consensus to to to take any action on that but it's something that we should be looking at every year because whether or not we can even assess a food tax is not necessarily always going to be something that we have control over that could be legislated away from us so um i think even if there's not a consensus for the council to to do away with that i don't know you know where everybody's at with that i think it's definitely something that we should have on our radar every year because um you know it the the legislature could take action to make that ability to have a food tax go away so we need to be prepared i think for both scenarios i think on an annual basis thank you mr vice mayor vice mayor well let me hear from go ahead councilmember clark well i would contend that and i support looking at this food tax not the sales tax right now but the food tax because i think that's more doable and it doesn't have to be all of it at once it can be graduated over a period of years but i also contend that our general fund budget continues to grow and what a reduction in the food sales tax would do would be to diminish part of that growth it doesn't necessarily in my view mean cuts so much as the growth would not be as large as we are accustomed to seeing or would like to see for the coming year so as much as i appreciate saying that the first remedy is to look at cuts within the budget i don't necessarily accept that as philosophy rather i think that that whatever diminishment of the food sales tax that occurs or does not occur could be absorbed by the growth we are experiencing within the budget thank you go ahead kevin vice mayor uh to councilmember aldama's point in some of the conversation probably if we want to look at this every year the appropriate place from a staff perspective to have this discussion is when we put together the five-year forecast it's very you know what we have to do is once we understand what we believe will be the revenues to work with we then work with our departments and so this work is already well begun with each of our our departments bringing forth their budget so then to do it kind of halfway through the process we can and we can certainly still do that but it's challenging because now you're really working on multiple uh approaches to a budget so i think the in future years the best way to do is when we do the five-year forecast is get consensus on the council as to what they want to see as the tax rate and then let's say if it is the goal the council to reduce a sales tax category or other revenue category then we'll build that into our model and then we can then come back and start working with um if it if it's a cut uh as councilman adama talked about or if it's maybe not adopting a new priority uh the council has and we can we can kind of work with the council on that because you're right what we're for example in the in the budget coming up we're working to not only handle the normal inflationary growth of just running government but we're trying to for example make improvements to our park programming and our park maintenance it just means maybe you have to reduce that down a little bit doesn't mean we're going to cut our spending in parks per se but it may just mean we have to push out some of the priorities but i think the best part i think for me would be and we'll we'll talk about this internally is that when we come to you which we did just recently with the five-year forecast it has assumptions on what those sales tax rates are and i think that's the appropriate time to say and that's if you recall we do we do that for the property tax uh once again we got council consensus during our five-year forecast that we there was no plan to uh increase the property tax levy rate uh and and to keep it flat we could have the same discussion on sales tax and either you know in a category reduce it increase it you could you could do it on your go i mean we have a variety of different revenue sources vice mayor councilman o'donnell thank you vice mayor uh kevin thank you for that uh mr phelps the so we someone mentioned i think councilman clark mentioned about the our fund balance just so our citizens know we've exceeded our 50 million we are we've got a great looking um fund balance right now and i'm not saying take it all and use it to reduce the tax but if we were to do a temporary or if we would do the permanent one and use the fund balance that would only carry us so far we would have to start looking at operational budget so it's not just one it's both we don't have a policy right now that says stop at 50 million or keep going we're pretty fat on that fund balance and we need to create a policy that says we need to add a certain percentage to our fund balance every year and that's it no more of it it needs to go somewhere else a whole different whole different policy change there but we need to have the robust conversation within this account then we need to start it for this budget you're not pushing the next year it's just really important subject right now and thank you to the council members who are chiming in thank you vice mayor thank you thank you vice mayor um i it it's i mean we just literally had the five year forecast three weeks ago today so i don't think we're so far down the road that nothing can be done i think it's a conversation worth having i think it's a we need to be looking at the possibility really i mean there are very few cities that have a food tax and we're one of the few i know it generates a lot of revenue but you know i believe we can exercise enough fiscal restraint in our in our planning to you know accommodate a reduction like that there's a lot of people that are out of work can't pay the rent that have deferred rent there's there this is this this is a long-term issue for a lot of our residents that are um so i mean i i think that it i i believe that it's totally doable i think we should look at it this year and uh you brought up a good point mr phelps about the parks um but i think that we should be able to accommodate at least a move forward in our goals with the um there should be a big cash infusion i believe that we talked about taking that glenn lakes money and contributing that towards increasing you know to that that was supposed to go towards parks so there should be i would hope a big cash infusion in parks this year from the sale of glen lakes which closed i think late last year so um i don't know whether that's how the budget's been planned but that's what the discussion was when we were talking about selling glenn lakes thank you vice mayor nice you just respond to councilman uh thomas so the the what we've we've kind of talked with the council is take one-time dollars and put into capital uh not into operating and so when i was referencing priorities of the council i specifically mentioned kind of the parks maintenance and operation which is ongoing so you're correct uh you know things like the sale of the proceeds from different assets that we have we've kind of talked to the council about putting those into into one-time projects where we're doing three community centers right now as a result of the discussions we had this fall i was just referencing that that the council also sometimes looks more from an operational and programming side and that if you reduce down your your your sales tax authority you'll just have to make decisions on on where you want those cuts to go and where you you know where you where you want to still maintain it doesn't have to be an across-the-board cut you could say we want all the cut or most the cut to come from this one category vice mayor okay i believe that a discussion on food sales tax merits discussion this year even if it is not implemented until next budget year but that discussion should include the following it should include how much new money has been generated as a result of growth it should provide us with options what is the impact of a one percent or maybe five tenths of a percent reduction it doesn't have to be a large amount each year it could be incremental each year i i would like to see options i would like to have that discussion now even if the implementation does not occur until next budget year thank you bye i'll yield to the council member here he hasn't said uh thank you um on on the top topic of the sales tax on food i am in agreement we should have the discussion it should be a yearly discussion uh however i just want to remind us that this is not a discussion that we're here to talk about cip and i think we need to get back on topic i think staff gets it that we want sales tax we want them to come and talk about sales tax sales tax uh the food sales tax correct and and i think that's appropriate and i think we we could can have that discussion this year uh but i just i would like us to get back on topic and get back to the cip uh we're limited on time today and i think we have a lot of things to yet to discuss vice mayors yeah thank you vice mayor and uh councilmember is correct we uh i sabotaged the the meeting and took that opportunity because it was a pause but my last comment is to the food tax though um and and we hopefully and i'll call an item an interest so we can have a workshop on it but groceries have increased significantly certain categories like milks eggs and meats have increased so we can simply look at what the increase was and how much more sales tax we're gaining because of those increases and that's what we can look at reducing so councilmember's correct we need to get back on topic here but whatever i have to do to make sure that we have that conversation i think everybody's on board thank you vice mayor all right thank you so we can get through a slide and give questions later let's move forward um before i move forward with the interactive yellow worksheet to answer council member talma chav's question on the transportation sales streets flood 21 because those projects relate to the geo bond series 2021 that we will be issuing this march the focus of the presentation are projects for fiscal year 22 through 31 so it's for the 10-year cip and to the far right right here you'll see the total once you council has prioritized and approved the projects so under this section right here total approval projects by fund again these are projects that city council have seen before their projects that were approved in the fiscal year 2021 adopted cip so this is the top section i'm going to scroll down to move into the the middle part of the page and this middle part of the page which is highlighted in green right here is the remaining voter authorization so i'll use streets as an example right here so you have the same authorization again so before we issue the fiscal year 2021 geo streets has remaining authorization of about 25.5 million we'll be issuing um right here these projects right here the 7.725 million in new money for streets and that does subtract that from the remaining voter authorization of 25.5 million so for fiscal year 21 after we issue the new debt the remaining balance and voter authorization is 17.7 million i do want to point out that for parks the red highlighted years over here it shows that there aren't enough voter authorization that there is a need to to go back out to the voters for additional authorization through a bond election you see the numbers are increasing and that's due to the projects that are approved in fiscal year 23 24 but i just want to point to the very last row right here so it does show that for years five through six and in total we need an additional 40.6 in voter authorization for parks then the very last section that's highlighted in blue right here are the available funding or the capacity to issue debt without raising the property tax levy so keeping the secondary property tax levy flat this section will right here in the bottom will also turn red as council approved projects and we're exceeding the estimated funding or the capacity to issue debt here year by year the estimated funding has been reviewed by our financial advisor and it does take into consideration a flat levy for fiscal year 2021 or series 2021 go we plan on issuing a total of about 16 million and we do include the cost of issuance here i will move on to the streets here so then i can run you through the worksheet here the streets as you saw in the the draft cip have several projects or very many projects here we have put in the projects in this worksheet the highlighted projects here are the ones that council have previously approved in the adopted fiscal year 2021 cip so those projects are the glendale avenue 101 to el mirage camelback road 83rd avenue to 91st avenue and bell road 51st avenue to 59th avenue the 7 million i mentioned earlier that we'll be issuing this year for streets if you add up the total here it's that same 7.725 you saw in the summary and you see the the fields here are are in red text that's because they've changed from last year in in the previous yellow worksheet if you recall for for streets we had one lump sum so the projects were not identified it was street reconstruction and what the department has done and throughout the cip is that they've identified specific projects for council consideration because it is a draft cip and we are looking for for feedback from city council and approval of the projects you see that most of the projects in the draft cip for streets have a no right here meaning they have not been approved by city council this is when we could prioritize reprioritize move a project back as needed depending on remaining voter authorization or the capacity to issue that so once a council approves this project for example the 101 to 91st avenue that project will be highlighted yellow also indicating that council has approved it and then just going through the remaining of the projects if we are running out of voter authorization the same green section here will turn red in fiscal year 22 we have 7 million in remaining voter authorization the same thing for the debt capacity it will turn red here in the bottom if we're exceeding the capacity to issue that while keeping the levy flat so i'll pause there it's a big spreadsheet and i know it can be complex so i'll wait to see if council has any questions or [Music] any feedback vice mayor can you walk through and just give some examples of moving things around and even though that's not necessary we're talking about making that decision but can you give examples of the council about the impact of moving something into a funded and how it affects capacity mayor members of the council sure so i'll start with this glendale avenue 101 to 91st what can happen is if council has consensus to approve this project we can say yes to this and you'll see that it's highlighted yellow this 2 million right here 2.9 and the 395 000 right here is now subtracted from the remaining voter authority that we have here if you recall this was 7 million less than 2.9 million it's now 4.1 million and now it's showing that we're exceeding our capacity to issue debt while keeping the levy flat so you show a negative 1.1 million in here so that means that whether it's coming from flood control library or public safety we need to reprioritize other projects so that we can be within our capacity to issue that are there other vice mayor members of the council are are there other projects you'd like us to show you an example of of how this worksheet kind of works again we're going to send this out you know to you one of the things that we as a staff have done here and miss uh camacho alluded to it is in the prior version of the cip we had everything lumped together in a big category that said street reconstruction that was the way in some ways that was the way that it went to the voters for the bond election which obviously was not passed and so the attempt here has been to break it down into specific projects with the thought that voters would be able to see in perhaps a future bond election more detail about what streets were going to be um what would be completed under uh that bond program so the reason these projects say no right now as ms camacho said is because we we would not have enough voter authority to do those projects but if we mark them as yes then what we're saying is well you could potentially fund them but only if you were successful in getting voter authority again in probably in fiscal year excuse me calendar year 2022 when we have the next general election vice mayor go ahead i think this is complicated i think it'll take council a while to become familiar with this and use it to its full potential um thank you for for providing it for us and i'm sure later you will give us the link or send us a link so that we can access it ourselves my immediate question is when do we have the opportunity to talk about individual projects and ask questions about them so mayor remembers the council you can ask those questions now we will the department is here we didn't do a separate slide for everyone because each of these projects that you've seen listed on the pages they're basically the same they're just a street reconstruction of that segment so rather than you know print multiple slides that all say street reconstruction of a segment we just listed the projects but mr eversole is here to answer your questions about those great i have a series of them vice mayor may i okay page 165 street reconstruction bethany home road 43rd to 51st last and i'm going to i looked at last year's appropriation approved and what is proposed for this year under the cip and and i want to understand what's going on and what the thinking was with regard to changes in some of these projects this is not this does not signal an approval or disapproval of any particular project it's simply an attempt for me to better understand the thinking and what's going on so starting with page 165. in last year's cip in fiscal year 2023 there was an authorization of [Music] 1.818 876 million that has been reduced to 100 dollars and the project in essence has been moved back a year to fiscal 2024 with an authorization that is larger than the original appropriation now it's at 2.732 876. can you explain that mr everson so that i understand why the reduction from 1.8 million to a hundred thousand and why the project is moved back a year and the amount increases by almost a million dollars okay vice mayor and members of council the project funding source changed from uh trans tax to the general obligation bonds the change in project allocation reflects the revised estimated costs the arterial reconstruction program was uh presented to council on june 23 2020 um oh can i ask a follow-up why why was it changed from temporary or from transportation sales tax to go funding was that part of the direction that we gave back in the fall vice mayor and members of the council yes that was the all these streets are part of the arterial are part of the rto reconstruction program and the we presented the council to transfer over the 15 million dollars of transportation cash to general obligation bonds okay why does the project increase by dropping it back a year why does project increase by almost a million dollars nine hundred thousand the cost of the project vice mayor and council i i don't have a detailed answer for that other than we're more educated on about what we need in coordination with our our other departments the utility companies and the cost estimates that have been uh received okay well i i would say you were way off in your estimate and that is the only comment i will make um page 167 street reconstruction camelback 83rd to 91st there in last the prior years cip there was no authorization for fiscal year 2022. now there is a new allocation of 1.2 million can you explain how that occurred uh vice mayor and council this project had a portion of the budget allocated to transportation tax as well the project funding source changed to the general obligation bonds and this revi this reflects the revised estimated cost um 160 page 169. central core sidewalk gaps uh this this project has been moved up and i wanted to understand the philosophy about why it's been moved up it was originally approved for fiscal year 2023 in the amount of 411 499 and fiscal year 2024 for 188 878. uh it has been moved up to a new allocation proposed in this year's budget for an allocation of 390 582. question why was it moved up and doesn't a and is it of such a priority to move up that it reduces uh capacity perhaps for other projects in other words is it possible if council were to identify other projects that this project could be moved back to its original last year's approved cip designation that's a lot of questions and one vice mayor and council this project uh this project cash flow changed to allocate to 390 582 000 in fy 22 and 209 740 dollars in fy 24 but the project total remained the same of 600 300 600 322 and the project reflects the share of the cost for this grant project so it was moved up because it's now become a grant project correct just want to understand what's going on here um age 170 67th avenue bike lanes which are not part of the go funding we're talking about today it was originally approved um fiscal year 22 490 430 000 plus fiscal year 2023 430 000 plus and fiscal year 2024 360 1000 plus that has been all rearranged and now the allocation has doubled for fiscal year 2022 it's gone from 430 000 to 755 000. so i would like to know why the allocation doubled why it was moved up into 2022 when it had been well it wasn't moved up but um there's been an additional allocation for 2023 that was not in the the approved cip from last year um answers vice mayor and council excuse me the project cash flow uh changed to allocate 755 788 dollars in fy 22 and 466 864 dollars in fy24 the project total remain uh remained at 1.2 million this project reflects the share of the cost for this grant project so again it's another grant project that forces it to move up and to double the amount uh page 171 street reconstruction glendale 101 to 91st in the prior cip there was no funding for 2023. now we have added an additional 395 332 why vice marine council the project funding source changed from transportation sales tax to general obligation bonds okay we have a couple of pages that are blank aren't you lucky hard to turn these pages age 178 street reconstruction of 83rd avenue glendale to northern um i note that for fiscal year 2022 there is 200 000 allocated and i assume that's for design of the street reconstruction but the actual request to do the work does not occur until fiscal year 2025. um and it's in the amount of three million three hundred and sixty eight thousand oh seventy eight uh uh if there's any project in my district that cries for being done now it is this one if any of you have driven glendale avenue between or 83rd avenue between glendale and northern it is a god-awful street i would with council consensus hopefully move this this would be a project and i would like to see how it would affect the budget move it move up the actual work to 2023 after design is complete members of the council i think if you'll give us just a moment miss camacho can show you the impact of that okay it's probably one of the better examples the earliest i believe the earliest that you would be able to do that project would be 2023 and the reason is you'll need voter authorization because you're already running out of voter authorization as we showed earlier so she's going to show you if you move it forward what what impact that has if if you'll bear with us for a moment sure vice mayor council member clark members of the council so i did move forward the project to fiscal year 2023 we've said yes it's now highlighted i'll just scroll down to the bottom you can see that for 23 streets have sufficient voter authorization and it's also within the capacity to issue the debt with the levy flat so we could move this project forward it's within voter authorization and the capacity to issue debt i i would ask council to consider that when we get to final approval of various projects that you consider joining me and moving that project up vice mayor right here sir thank you um yeah with the mass you can't see lips moving um yeah i would concur with that uh orangewood or not orange but 83rd avenue that roadway between glendale avenue and northern is as bad now as 71st avenue it was between orangewood and glendale avenue i would say no don't move it up right now but but i concur it needs to be and here's why most of the development down 83rd avenue has completed for the exception of one small lot that i see dirt being moved so it's probably going to be the last one there might be some improvements that that cut that builder can can provide but that's it it's 83rd avenue between northern and glendale is done there's no more development there so now would be the time to move that up and that would be the appropriate time so i could support that it's a bad road another go ahead that i want council member tom and john okay vice mayor sorry miss i'm gonna ask miss camacho to scroll back up for a minute so if you notice uh the answer to the question we highlighted that row by answering yes and saying we would do that project however if you scroll back over uh miss camacho is can we not see it or make it a little bit smaller that assumes that we don't do these other projects that were previous that council previously had identified they're on slide um 16 i believe so those are all still no's so if you go well i don't understand because at the bottom of that slide you indicate that there is capacity left that's what ms camacho said yes so why does it automatically generate a no for other projects may or members of council again let me just walk you through this just really quickly and so if you see under this scenario glendale avenue 101 to 91 is still a no cactus 51st to 658th or i'm sorry i can't read that but that's a no so as long as all of those projects above it are no yes you can move that project forward but if if you start saying yes to those other projects which had been identified previously that's why they're kind of listed in this order then you'll see red so as long as we don't do the ones in between the the pieces of yellow then you'll be okay but if you start saying yes to other projects it will prevent you from doing that particular project that you asked for say it again okay let's just do it uh lisa will you so as soon as you say yes to that project that which glendale avenue 101 to 91st okay now you're seeing that you cannot do both you have to take something off that you had already given direction to staff to fund back in june so those have to take money away from the yellow projects you have to from because that's presumably what will be moving forward in the coming year mayor members of the council you don't have to take funding away from the set undo the yes on that one you don't have to take funding away from those that are in yellow right there but you have to take funding from any of the other ones that say no below correct okay but it but if i were to say to the streets department to mr everson mr eversol is there a project in white that perhaps could be put off in favor of doing that 83rd avenue glendale the northern project what would uh i'm you know that's off the top of your head i'm not asking you for a definitive but could it be done vice mayor i'd like to actually jump in there if i could councilman clark the answer is yes with the caveat the three projects you see here in yellow have already been approved by the council which means we're already well underway with design and engineering and coordination of utility all the things that go as part of a project so you could swap some things out but the the the project that you're interested in we have we'd have to start over or start not over but begin to do engineering and there's going to be a delay there so the answer is yes but those are staff's been working on the design and engineering and procurement all the things that go with the construction project because it had been prior approved by the council but it doesn't mean you can't reprioritize projects that's what i'm trying to get to you don't mess with the yellow projects because they're already underway in some shape or fashion but you can mess with the white projects underneath the yellow projects that's correct okay and then i would say to staff is there a way to accommodate the 83rd avenue project by doing something with one of the white projects if if i could if i could interject uh i think with reference to projects we can and cannot do with reference to current authorization i think that's the real issue here do we have voter authorization if we don't then we can't go past that point and i would like to refer you just back to two slides in the presentation one is slide 15 if we if we could what's that 15 when we discussed with city council in june about transferring 15 million dollars in cash that was supposed to carry some of these projects to move it over to pavement management program to allow us to raise the amount of dollars for pavement management above 10 million every year and really get a jump start catch up and keep up with that with those type of treatments these three were already in in design and moving that's 2.7 authorized by city council in the cip and and already voted on the next slide is what represents the 15 million dollars that well except for the last two uh 83rd and 75th and we we did put that down uh as design and but most specifically the rest of glendale avenue from uh 90 from the 101 to el mirage which is coming to city council next week glendale 101 to 91st 3.3 million is a a project that we need i think we've been told that we need to get that venice it's in terrible shape and we want to do it before super bowl the third one uh it's under design and it's in the capital uh program for this year and next i i understand that but i thought miss camacho said that even with the expenditure of the 17 million dollars of that of already approved authorization there was a balance of somewhere around 7 million of authorization left mayor remembers the question but it isn't the authorization it's a debt capacity mayor members of the council let's go back to the worksheet again i think this is so those projects that mr freedline is alluding to on this sheet they say no so if you turn them to yes which is the direction that you had given back in june but this is why we're having this discussion but if we turn them to yes then you will run out of capacity go ahead and just those are the ones that were on that sheet so i'll run out of debt capacity not authorization you'll run out of authorization i thought i thought miss camacho said that even with the expenditure of the 17 million there was still seven million left in authorization under streets was i wrong or did i not hear that correctly it wasn't this slide it was a previous slide where you showed that there was seven million left in streets authorization i'm not talking about debt capacity right now mayor members of the council council member clark the the 17 million you're referring to is i'll just go back to this slide right here so it's this 2.7 million and also this 15 million is about the 17 million that you're referring to and yes they are within existing voter authorization the reason why we're showing it right now it's because we accelerated this project to fiscal year 23. this is 3.3 there's no debt capacity and you see that's close to um the 3 million that you accelerated in 23. okay i'm i'm gonna let it go for now because i don't want this to drag on but we'll discuss this further one more council member thomas thank you um i with the new administration and with the you know there's going to be some kinds of economic recovery plans and realizing that our president was vice president during the recovery from the recession um would it be and i i i what i'm going to suggest is we we find money for design for these projects we do that part now we fund that now so that we have projects that are literally shovel ready because i'm i mean we don't know for sure we never did get an infrastructure package with the last administration but i i think we should be ready and and put and put as much money towards design now as we can so that we can take advantage of any type of economic stimulus projects shovel-ready projects that may be coming out with this administration especially knowing that this is uh the vice president was in charge a lot of the stuff that they rolled out in the in the recovery of the of the recession so the the more ready we are for that type of thing so whether we maybe actually put that project into into actual gear to move it forward but if we can find money to do design so we're ready to receive uh federal funding for any of these projects that we i think that maybe that should be what we should be talking about right now today is if we can find the money for some of these projects to do the design part so we're ready that we should be thinking about doing that thank you if i can vice mayor uh when when when we showed you a slide 16 the 15 million dollars and we showed 83rd and 75th purposely design only but we don't have the authorization to go past it but that that is part and parcel of getting design on the shelf ready to go if there's an infrastructure program what we have uh within the existing authorization in today's this year's fiscal year and don i think don can talk about some of the design uh for streets that we're doing right now as we speak trying to get ready for an infrastructure bill and if and if that's not the case uh either studies or designs they're 150 000 to 200 000 but we'll be ready even if we don't have an infrastructure bill if we're lucky enough to get more authorization by the voters they're on the shelf ready to go it'll take a minimal amount of time to update and get those to city council get them out to bid and get them constructed but if i but if i can the when we look at that slide and the two million what's that's basically saying is we have no more authorization left any other projects past that uh need to have other some other funding source and obviously we keep talking about uh the potential of having another referendum and all the projects for the next three to five years and then six to ten depending on how we would frame that for the voters vice mayor yes not quite done with me yet i have two more two more questions one has to do with page 210. the infield lighting program in the approved cip from last year there was absolutely no allocations from 20 beyond 2021. now i see that that staff has is recommending an allocation for every fiscal year mr eversol can you explain what's happening here uh vice mayor and council this project reflects a request to add new allocation for the infill lighting program we currently have approximately 100 locations that have identified gaps in the street lighting so this is a program to fill those gaps okay and you decided it was a priority to go ahead and reinsert it this year and for the next five years correct okay over the next five years how many of those hundred street lights will be inserted into the city at 150 000 a year it's like 750 000 over five years schedule okay 90 90 will be completed 90. so we'll have 10 lonely little street light gaps that haven't been filled theoretically yes which i have a suggestion for but i'm not sure there's capacity anywhere alone so i'm not gonna say anything right now and then on page no not page but i have a question in last year's cip there was project 219 street reconstruction camelback road 51st to 59th it's been removed it hasn't been removed because that project is finally completed vice mayor and council members that's a that segment of camelback road has been identified to receive a lesser type of treatment than a reconstruction so it's no longer in the arterial reconstruction program presently so where has it moved to does it have a new number hmm the vice mayor and members of the council it's presently not in our 10-year cip so i don't know the specific date of which it will receive a treatment i'll have to come back to you with that yes i would very much like to know because it just suddenly disappeared and now i learned that that you have no plans for it at all and i think that's a a very important road for the city that needs to be remediated if necessary vice mayor that ends my questions on streets thank you ready to move on i'll turn over the presentation to miss lindsay and to go over the flood control projects okay the flood control geo bond funded cip projects have been prioritized based on the glendale area storm water management plan the maryvale area master drainage study and also have been timed in conjunction with grant match funds from maricopa county flood control district the slide you see in front of you are programmed projects that are within the adopted cip that fall within existing voter authority the next slide that you see are projects that are within the adopted cip but fall outside of existing voter authorization and with that we can answer specific projects about the flood control program one thing i'd like to add is there's a slide for each one of these projects within the presentation so if council has specific questions about that particular project we can go to that slide for so the department can answer questions so the binders and the binders it's drainage and not flood control yes that's correct the flood control is the is the name of the category of the general obligation bond we have it as drainage within the cip well that's what i thought but i wasn't positive so thank you nice man anyone else yes i do have some questions okay uh page 25 camelback road our favorite topic today 51st to 58th i would like to know the rationale why that project has been moved back three three years it was approved to start in fiscal year 2022 now all the allocation is moved to fiscal year 2025. why vice mayor vice mayor council member clark i'm don besser with engineering there were several projects that we identified about six in total for the proposed bond program last fall that did not pass so the uh the bulk of our bond program or the bulk of our flood control program relies heavily on matching grants from the county from mcflood the two projects that are shown as as proposed to be funded both have grants that have been approved by mcflood they're the grants aren't showing on this because this is a general obligation bond presentation but those two grants total about seven million dollars the projects that are below that don't we don't we do not have the remaining bonding capacity to do that so to your specific question on that reach of camelback road there's not enough bonding authority by itself to do that improvement nor do we at this time have a matching grant for that so there was two of those projects that got moved out they're not off our radar they're still in the plan but it'll be a time to find the funding so i assume the second project is 83rd avenue bethany to camelback also did not receive grant funding at this time that's correct a council member that's what i needed to know okay let me just check um that's it for me thank you hmm mayor i mean excuse me vice mayor members of the council did you want us to pull up the yellow sheet to look at any of these projects are you ready to move on vice mayor yes not necessarily to that question but i actually would like to hear the description of what our plan is that what the need is on glendale avenue from 91st to the 101. is that in our material i think they're getting an answer a vice mayor council member turner were you still referring to flood control perhaps on that reach of glendale avenue uh or were you talking generically about the street itself i was thinking generically about the street itself and okay i'm going to let our my colleague mr ebersol come back up here and i would also just take this moment to say on the previous conversation about shovel ready we have about six miles of roads that we're now trying to prepare for that shovel ready status thank you vice mayor and council members glendale avenue between 91st avenue and the 95th avenue is going to be reconstructed and that's going to that's scheduled to occur prior to the super bowl of february 23. so it's it's a full reconstruction so this is the section of glendale avenue that is between westgate and cabela's and the uh cracker barrel restaurant that section right in there yes it doesn't hardly seem to me off the top of my head that it's old enough that it would need a full reconstruction and there's are we is this overkill vice president council members based on our analysis no vice mayor thank you councilmember turner i'm not the expert but one who frequents glendale avenue because my son lives down by the furniture warehouse that road surprisingly and not surprisingly kind of both because of the traffic it's in really bad shape it's really coming apart and if we don't get it now it's going to be a full reconstruction but councilmember turner just my observation of driving that route very frequently that road is in bad shape and it needs to be fixed i brought this up last year from from that intersection 91st avenue all the way over to 67th avenue is really bad but but that section is worthy of looking at to be resurfaced just wanted to give you that based on my observation no expert but just observation vice mayor councilmember aldama thank you um resurface i can understand i can tell from from the aerial photos and such that it does need some attention but we're planning on doing a full reconstruction there is that right mr eversole vice mayor and council members yes we're going down to the sub-base level okay and that's because the pmi on that section is warrants that treatment is that what we're looking at that's one of the factors that are associated with the decision for reconstruct okay all for now but i may need further explanation i may revisit it in the future thank you vice mayor yes if i may thank you vice mayor mr ebersol how much so you just answered yes to uh councilmember turner with regard to the pmi but how much of of what you're proposing is considering how much traffic is going to increase or the load on that road so can you in percentage if you will how much of what you want to do is with regard to the future use of that road so that we're not back doing it again vice mayor council members we're anticipating a large amount of growth there i don't remember the average daily traffic volumes off the top of my head but right now it's around a thirty thousand vehicles per day usage and with the developments that are coming into the area that traffic is going to get a lot more congested emphasizing the need for the the reconstruction of it thank you vice mayor if i may continue and that that's a corridor for uh many of the sanitation trucks that are coming from east glendale after such a term down into the landfill is that correct yes vice president member yes they do use that corridor yeah i'm not i'm not uh i'm just advocating that i know we're going to have so much growth there that that road should be done now not later again just my observations thank you councilmember thomas john thank you sorry about that um it's the first i've heard of uh doing reconstruction and anticipation of growth i haven't haven't at least i don't recall us ever having that conversation before and if it's in in anticipation due to growth wouldn't there be um diff money available for this for some of this and not have to use bonding capacity or not all bond can use some combination of funding for that vice mayor and council members this isn't a capacity increase it's not a capacity enhancement so it's not an expansion of the roadway it's a replace in kind no i meant because the anticipation of the growth the increased traffic on the on that that's what you just said that there's that there's a lot of growth there's going to be the car count is going to go up and in anticipation of that that that's part of the reason um for the for the road needing reconstruction that's what i'm saying is i don't recall of saying because we anticipate higher traffic volumes we're going to do the reconstruction rather than a milling overlay or some other treatment and you're correct it's not it's not the factor for how we decide on doing a reconstruct it's just one of the components that we use for our decision okay because i mean i won't use another street for an example then my second question was vice mayor if i could about um other funding sources other than um general obligation bonds for this diff fees if it's due to growth isn't there any diff money available to fund at least some of this vice mayor council members i don't think this would be qualified for i'll look into it work with finance on it but i don't think this is going to qualify for development impact fees related because it's not we're not expanding the roadway to accommodate additional lanes mr vice mayor let me i think so this is kind of the challenge of diff fees even though it's been increased volume may lead to an increased deterioration of the road if we are widening glendale avenue because of the growth of capacity going from a three-lane 313 lane configuration to a 4-1-4 for example that additional lane would be eligible but just because of increased growth has has essentially deteriorated the road quicker it doesn't make it eligible for the diff fees if i could go back to councilman turner's question about it so one of the things that why we've targeted the 2223 is a zen hero pass area on the north side of glendale avenue is now fully under construction if you've been there so over the last couple years between developments that westgate is putting in on the very north end of their property and what's happening on the south end of zangero we've had a number of intrusions into the street cutting into it we've got a sewer water project that's going to be coordinated along with that as well so that's why that project has been identified as a reconstruct and with the timing we're actually coordinating and we believe most of the construction that's happening in that area will have been in place prior to this project starting with that we'll move into the library general obligation bond funded cip projects again these have been prioritized based on previous instruction from council or previous feedback from council as well as staff is currently reviewing some draft assessments of the libraries the first slide that you see in front of you are approved projects within the adopted capital improvement program that fall within existing voter authority for libraries and the following slide are program projects that are actually within the adopted cip but that require additional voter authorization vice mayor yes councilmember clark with reference to this slide program projects requiring additional voter authorization i would like to consider adding heroes library expansion to that list for additional voter authorization and the reason for my doing so is that a bond authorization would be required to complete all of heroes park including we had talked about um the wreck space having additional community mutiny meeting space that is scheduled for at least 10 years out and heroes needs additional capacity right now so uh if heroes expansion heroes library expansion were added to projects requiring additional voter authorization it is my hope that we could get some kind of an expansion prior to waiting another 10 years and so i would respectfully ask that we include when we seek voter authorization for additional projects that we add heroes library expansion to that list also i see we're talking uh velmatigue we're looking to do some uh modernization to the amphitheater maybe other parts of city hall so maybe we should keep that in mind anything with valentine might be put off for later years then vice mayor yes i have a specific question related to page 79 foothills library renovation and i just want to want to understand what's going on here in the approved cip from last year there was 866 000 approved for expenditure in fiscal year 2024 i i would like to know under the proposed cip there is additional funding sought for fiscal year 2022 in the amount of 225 000 and additional funding sought for fiscal year 2026 in the amount of 1.3 million and i would like to understand why those two new allocations were added vice mayor council member clark i'm going to turn that question over to ms watenko vice mayor council members um could you actually go to slide 33 for me amy we actually have slides on this specific project so if we go to amy can you go to slide 33 in in the description for the project we have draft facility condition assessments for this building like we presented with the public safety and as part of that we noticed the chiller and so we sent staff up to do some investigations so the funding in fy 22 would allow for a replacement of that chiller then we've decreased the funding in fy 24 to account for the design but pull the chiller out of that and then in the other years we've just spread it out we've been working closely with engineering on what's a reasonable amount that we can construct in a year and so you'll see that the funding's actually gone down by about 275 000 overall but we've just put it in the years where we think it's appropriate and this is our recommendation to counsel makes perfect sense i just wanted to understand what was happening thank you councilman thomas thank you yeah i'm not sure i understand the reduced amount for fiscal year 2024 just can you explain that again uh sure vice mayor and council members uh in fiscal year 24 we previously had 866 000 i believe and we reduced that we knew we had to do some chiller work so we actually pulled the chiller amount forward so that it went down by 225 000 to account for that and then we looked at what it's currently costing us to design per square foot and we we altered that number to kind of fit what it would be if we went into design today so that that's to cover design of the library renovation for the remaining components that have to be designed thank you okay if there are no more questions about the library geo bonds we'll move into public safety uh the public safety program and staff recommendations for the prioritization and timing of the projects within this category are based upon recommendations from the building safety condition the public safety building condition assessment as well as previous council instruction what you see on the first slide here are programmed projects within the adopted cip that fall within existing voter authority so there's 56 million 170 000 303 and these are new projects within the cip for this year that also fall within existing voter authorization there's approximately 98 million dollars of voter authorization in the public safety category so these new projects fall within existing voter authorization but require council approval vice mayor yes i would suggest the addition again of a possible program and i know it it it needs to be fleshed out but i know that the police department is in the initial stations stages of working on a drone program and i think that could be invaluable in years to come so i would like to see if there is capacity debt capacity i know there's authorization but if there is debt capacity to add to that three-place list of a future drone program for the police department now i get i don't think i don't know if they can develop a dollar amount as a placeholder but but i would like to see that considered vice mayor council member clark if you could turn to page 139 in your binder under the public safety program there's a project called unmanned aerial vehicles this would be a drone program that is currently within the diff funding for police it's also a new project this year that we'll discuss when we bring the diff projects before you i don't know how i missed it but i missed it thank you never mind vice mayor yes councilmember diamond thank you vice mayor um with regard to uh station all stations actually i'm just going to pick on this one here because it's got hvac replacement um not to get into much detail but is is the recommendation to replace simply the hvac systems that are in that building or are we considering replacing them and creating more ventilation for those buildings with regard to decontaminating the building the firefighters are in vice mayor councilmember aldama i'm going to turn that question over to ms watanko thank you vice mayor councilmember odama we have not yet started programming or design but i know within the existing fire stations a current project this year is to look at increased ventilation specifically in the bays and the preliminary conversations have been that we need to include these things we're currently working with engineering in the fire department on visiting other fire stations in the valley to find out what state of the art is and what the benefits might be from doing things like that so several of these projects are a just kind of a remodel like we did at fire station 152 and others are a demolition but we are looking at the ventilation with the hvac systems vice mayor if i may continue uh mr tanko thank you so much i i see 335 000 that just seems like we're replacing it but so thank you for that and now would be the time to start addressing you know partitioning the building from and you're more of an expert than i am from the garage and the building that they that they live in the living quarters but also it's we really have to focus on decontaminating that building by more ventilation i hope that that would come in in the project and this dollar amount wouldn't just would keep us from doing that can you go to page 49. so vice mayor and councilmember odama we we have specific projects on the fire stations and we're looking at them currently but on page 49 of this presentation you'll see exactly what we're proposing with this 335 thousand we have fire station 151 which is not in the 10 years of the cip but we're looking at how do we update that hvac system we're looking at fire station 159 which is i believe in the out years and it may not even be in the cip just yet and as well as the advocacy center so these are these are projects where we don't have other projects programmed at these stations or don't have them programmed soon enough thank you vice mayor thank you so much and i would just ask that and i'm sure you're going to do this i you know get get your firefighters involved and make sure they're meeting with you on their needs in ventilation and we this whole entire council wants to make sure our firefighters are safe um our police as well but in this case there's contamination we have to eliminate and sounds like you're on that route but i just want to make a reminder that let's not forget that part of the projects thank you thank you vice mayor were there any other specific questions on public safety okay so with that this is the budget calendar again to remind you when our next budget workshop is uh it's on february 16th and at that time we'll be discussing the general obligation bond-funded cip prioritization of parks open space cultural facilities and general government bonds one moment council thomas yeah i have a question or actually a request with regard to the budget calendar i know you sent out a memo with um you know punch list dates but rather than trying to keep track of the dates in this email could it be just incorporated into the spreadsheet on the budget list like what date we're going to be receiving the updated cip materials and what date we'll be receiving the operating budget material so that we can know without having to try to figure out who sent me the email when did i get it and try to find those dates it's just a lot to keep track of regard to that on the updated cip materials the email says that it will be provided by march 12th in advance of the march 16th workshop and i looked march 12th is a friday and i'm asking that we do not receive it at five o'clock or four o'clock on a friday for a tuesday morning workshop it's a lot to go through i don't think it's fair to give it to us on a friday afternoon at five o'clock and expect us to be fully prepared by tuesday morning so i'm asking for a revision there to get that to us sooner at least even by thursday afternoon so we have another full day um this is a lot i mean you guys work in this stuff every day we get it and have to um try to figure out i mean sometimes i feel like i should be a private detective to try to figure out what's changed where things went so it's a lot for us to take in especially over a weekend there's you're there's really nobody to call um if we have questions so um but the march 12th to march 16th for me anyway is not satisfactory thank you vice mayor yes thank you vice mayor um we spoke earlier had a robust conversation about having a robust conversation on reduction in sales tax and and food tax is this the appropriate time or did staff mr city manager is that enough direction from the council to bring that back mr vice mayor members of the council councilman obama yeah we'll we'll huddle up after this and go through all the different questions and stuff and that'll be one and we'll look for an appropriate time in the very near future bringing that back um and getting it calendared for discussion okay so we don't need a formal item of interest the council gave enough guidance i believe we we've certainly heard there's enough interest in the council to move forward thank you sir thank you vice mayor vice mayor i have i had one other question um and this is budget related it's actually secondary property tax related but at the january 12th workshop in the on the five-year financial forecast i specifically asked that there was a dollar amount the tax had increased the secondary property tax based on new properties coming on increased property values and someone was going to get back to me with that amount and i did not get it thank you nice mayor customer thomas members of the council we can certainly get that to you vice mayor yes i would just like to make a comment uh about our budget workshops the budget is the most critical item as far as i'm concerned for the city all year long budget and finance staff deals with it every day you know the ins and outs of this budget you know what's happening and what's not happening within the budget various departments seek your advice and counsel on a daily basis once a year council gets to review the budget and again this is the most important task that perhaps we do in any calendar or fiscal year providing us more information is never a bad thing do not assume that because you know it we know it i would like to see you err on the side of providing us an overabundance of information on doing some of the things that we were suggested like with regard to capacity estimates was one example getting the material to us as quickly as possible and what kind of perturbs me just a little bit is that you know each year we're going to enter this exercise why you should be hurrying to get these books to us on a friday afternoon i have no idea there's a lot of formatting that is standard from year to year that that requires a plug-in of numbers only and even if they are estimates and they're off by 20 bucks that doesn't matter what matters is is that we get the information with estimates and you can ask direct anything as an estimate to be revised as we go march through the budget process but don't please don't be afraid to give us an overabundance of information that's what these workshops are designed for is to educate council and you're also educating the general public but primarily the council on what a proposed budget is for this year so with that thank you for your time and effort it is appreciated um tremendously i know by this council but it just seems like every year we have generally the same conversations and at some point we hope you'll get it thank you thank you vice mayor welcome city manager your vice mayor a couple closing comments and and certainly no disrespect to councilmember clark we this we we've stats worked really hard actually to try to get you more information if you recall as i said at the beginning of this workshop we didn't even introduce the cip as part of our budgeting process until mid-march and so part of our goal was to get this conversation going and getting into that rhythm and getting you as much information it isn't really plug and play as much as it might as it might seem like but so the creation of the online tool or the electronic spreadsheet is something that we had to develop kind of from scratch we are going to look to see whether there are cip software applications that perhaps will make this a little bit easier and more timely but we we heard you loud and clear and i and that's why we're having on february 2nd our first of of of a number of capital workshops we've quadrupled the number of capital workshop all half-day hearings because we want the council to feel like they can get into the rhythm and really understand what's there now to that degree what i would recommend is this spreadsheet staff knows it really well and maybe it might be really helpful is to feel free to schedule a meeting with uh with lizette and amy and her team and they can actually pull this sheet up for you and kind of walk you through it and i think maybe just an investment of even a half hour an hour i think they can kind of explain it to you one-on-one i think would be a real good exercise because then i think once you get familiar with it you'll be able to really zip through this and and see the implications of the change but that is our goal is to invest a lot more time energy in getting you information regarding the cip today was just the first step of that and and it will will work uh we certainly we understand the desire not to wait till friday uh to get information so we'll work on a an advanced schedule on that and we'll commit to uh we'll kind of talk about what it will take to produce that and then we'll communicate to the council what our commitment is to getting that information but i do encourage you to reach out to our team on the the yellow sheet spreadsheet because i think it's a really a good tool that you can once you get kind of get familiar with it i think it's going to be something you haven't had in the past to help you make your decisions as you move forward so thank you for your investment of time and and will and we've got a whole series of notes that we've taken and we'll be beginning back with responses in all those areas uh finally the there is lunch will be here shortly um and so uh you know certainly we can continue the conversation uh during lunch if you have additional questions any other comments counseling vice mayor yes yeah thank you vice mayor um i just got a couple comments um i know uh some of our council members rightfully so were critical on on the process and they have the right to do that and i support the right to do that i do however want to thank our staff for not being complacent and bringing upon change and our process for our budget i've always said we got to change what we're doing um so i want to thank you for pushing the envelope challenging the process bringing us a different way of doing things in business i think the issue here today was just putting the carriage in front of the horse but i i recognize the change and the reason to do things different i think that interactive spreadsheet will be challenging but uh it's it's a welcoming change for me and i just want to thank staff for bringing something different uh it's just the uh i think the issue was putting the character in front of the horse but with that said thank you for bringing something different not being complacent thank you vice mayor welcome anyone else i have one comment but i are you going to be sending us a link or how are we going to be getting this or do we have to log in to use this or how is that you said we're going to be able to play with it and use it but how are we how are we going to be getting access to this uh you know mayor membership spreadsheet we'll be sending it to you via an email so you could um save it on your drive or anywhere you want to save it and um any changes that you have you can send it back to us and then we can try to incorporate all the changes from all the council members and then we'll bring it back forward for discussion and future console workshops okay so the um but vice mayor so you're gonna send it we're gonna have to download it onto like i use my personal device my own laptop i'll have to put it on my laptop or i'm not sure what you vice mayor members it'll show up as an excel spreadsheet so you're already if you're office compliant on your computer which i believe you are all you have to do is you'll just double click on the excel spreadsheet and it will populate and pull up okay all right thank you anyone else no further business for the council meetings adjourn you