Good evening. Welcome to the March 25th Plano Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. I'll call the meeting to order at 6:00 pm. If you would please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. The flag is saints. Prayer to the Republic, which stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all for joining us tonight. First item on the agenda is comments of public interest. So we have just a matter of. Procedure. We have changed the comments of public interest to move them back to the front of the meeting and in person. So or by zoom as well I believe. So there is a slight change to that from our previous agendas if you've been with us before. But so first item is comments of public interest. Do we have any registered speakers for that item tonight? There are no registered speakers. Okay. Moving on. We'll go to consent agenda. Consent agenda. The consent agenda will be acted upon in one motion and contains items that are routine and typically noncontroversial. Items may be removed from this agenda for individual consideration by commissioners or staff commission. Would anybody like to remove an item? Seeing none. Commissioner Bronsky. I move. We approve the consent agenda as submitted. Commissioner Lingenfelter, I second. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda as presented. Motion passes 6 to 0. We do have Commissioners Tong and al-Ali absent this evening. All right. Items for individual consideration. Item number one. Items for individual consideration. Public hearing items, unless instructed otherwise by the chair. Speakers will be called in the order registrations are received. Applicants are limited to a total of 15 minutes of presentation time, with a five minute rebuttal if needed. Remaining speakers are limited to 30 total minutes of testimony time, with three minutes assigned per speaker. The presiding officer may modify these times as deemed necessary. Administrative consideration items must be approved if they meet city development regulations. Legislative consideration items are more discretionary except as constrained by legal considerations. Agenda item number one is a preliminary plat for Hinckley Addition block B, lots one through six and one X for six. Single family residence, nine lots and one common area lot on 2.2 acres. Located on the south side of Los Rios Boulevard, 220ft east of Flintstone Drive. Zoned single Family residence nine. The applicant is Hinckley, Los Rios. This item is for administrative consideration. Donna Sepulvado, lead planner with the Planning Department. The purpose for this preliminary plat is to create six single family lots and one common area lot. And it is recommended for approval subject to additions and or alterations to the engineering plans as required by the Engineering Department and approval of Landscape Plan 2020 4-034. Happy to answer any questions. Just to follow up from our pre meeting, this is the site we've already approved this site plan previously with the zoning case. Is that correct? The concept plan. Yes. Okay great. Thank you. Commissioners. Questions for staff. No questions. All right. I'll open the public hearing. Do we have any speakers registered for this item? There are no speakers for this item. All right. I'll close the public hearing commissioners. Commissioner Lingenfelter, I move that we approve this item as recommended by staff. Commissioner Bruno. I second the motion. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve the item as presented. Please vote. Motion passes 6 to 0. Item two read two A and two B together, please. All right. Agenda item number two. A request to amend Plan Development 65, Central Business one to modify open space and signage development standards on 275.1 acres located at the northeast corner of Legacy Drive and Communications Parkway and within the Dallas North Tollway Overlay District. Tabled on January 21st, 2025, February 17th, 2025 and March 3rd, 2025. The petitioner is Legacy West investors. This item is for legislative consideration. Agenda item number two B Legacy West Edition, block D, lot one are retail, restaurant, professional general administrative office and 620 multifamily residence units on one lot on 31 acres. Located at the southwest corner of Headquarters Drive and the Dallas North Tollway. Zoned. Planned development 65 Central Business One, with specific use permit number 11 for new automobile dealer and specific use permit Number 186 for new Vehicle Dealer and located within the Dallas North Tollway Overlay District. The applicant is Legacy West Investors LP. This item is for administrative consideration pending agenda item number two A. Good evening commissioners. My name is Destiny woods. I'm a planner with the planning department. Here you can see the aerial view of the location of this request, as well as the proposed development shown by this graphic. So the proposed development. Oops. Excuse me. Alrighty. So in 1980, Central Business one was the zoning. And then in 1998, plan Development 65, Central Business One was established. And it only included tracks A and B. And then in 2005, approximately 18 acres were added to track B above Headquarters Drive. In 2014, track C and D were added to the district, and in 2022 the open space requirements were modified. So this proposal will focus on tracks C and D, although the zoning is for the entire district. So the proposed development will increase the usable open space area by closing Water Street, and it will decrease a small area of open space for a retail kiosk which will be used, which will not be used for commercial signage. And then 8X8 sign kiosks will be added with this request, as well as four large digital signs. Those signs will include two signs on buildings facing Windrose Avenue, and then two signs on garages facing Windrose Avenue. So, to summarize the stipulations, they're broken up between open space and signage. So the open space amendments will require minimum open space going from 8.7 acres of open space to 8.85 acres of open space. And the minimum requirement within track C and D to increase from 1.6 acres to 1.7 acres. The kiosk amendments will allow for eight total kiosks. Sign kiosks and those kiosks may be used for advertising. They must be at least 75ft apart, and they must be within 50ft of Windrose Avenue. And the signage amendments will allow for two signs on the parking garage facades facing east towards Windrose Avenue. For those signs, one would be within 300ft of headquarters. That one is allowed to be 1100 square feet, and then one is over 300ft of headquarters drive. That one is allowed to be 1500 square feet, and the signs on the building facades facing Windrose Avenue. The one on the east is required to be 400ft■!S. On the west, its required to be 900ft■!S. So for the closure of Water Street. Water Street is currently a privately owned, quasi public street connecting Windrose Avenue to Communications Parkway within the Legacy West development. So the western segment of Water Street will remain as a private driveway with access to and through the parking garage from Communications Parkway, as well as Windrose Avenue. And as a result of this closure, Water Street will no longer function as a quasi public street. And it also will not meet fire lane requirements or street requirements. All of the apartments and businesses with a Water Street address will be readdressed to Communications Parkway, and Water Street will be converted to be an outdoor stage and create point 18 acres of open space area. That conversion will only take place on the eastern portion of what's currently Water Street. So for the open space, by adding point 18 acres of open space through the closure of Water Street and removing 0.3 acres of open space by adding in a retail kiosk, there's a net increase of 0.15 acres of open space to the entire district. As far as the kiosk changes. So the changes are to track C and D in their proposed with the new development. But tracks A and B those will remain with the existing requirements. Those requirements include for total kiosks and they will have no advertising on those. And that is not changing in the stipulations. As far as track C and D, eight total kiosks will be permitted. They may be used for advertising and they'll have to follow the stipulations set. So this map shows the locations of those proposed kiosks. And there are eight arrows here. You can see there's one dot inside of a building that is not going to be regulated by this request. For the garage signage. So there are two signs on parking garages facades facing east toward Windrose. And this picture on the top you can see is a view from Winthrop into the development. Excuse me, Winthrop Street into the development. And it's showing that garage that would have the larger sign on it, that 1500 square foot sign. And this map shows the locations of those signs. The building signage. So there will be two signs on each two building facades facing Windrose Avenue east of Windrose is going to be 400ft. That's on the right picture. And west of Windrose will be 900ft■!S. And this map shows where those signs are. All of the garage building and kiosk signs are required to be facing internal to the development, similar to an indoor shopping mall. PD 65 Central Business one is located within the Urban Activity Centers and Employment Centers categories of the future Land Use map. However, changes proposed in this zoning case are limited to tract C, which is located exclusively in the UA category. And the request meets the policies set by the Comprehensive Plan. Staff have received ten total letters within the subject property and zero letters within the 200 foot buffer. And we received 18 total letters and online responses and one email response. To summarize, the purpose of this request is to revise the Open Space Plan to provide a net increase of 0.15 acres to of open space, and proposed standards to allow eight additional kiosks and four wall signs oriented inward to the Legacy West. Development. The development functions as an open air shopping mall, with shops and signage facing an outdoor corridor central, similar to a central hallway. And this request is in conformance with the Comprehensive Plan recommendations and policies and staff recommends approval of the zoning case as submitted, and staff recommends approval subject to the zoning case for Excuse Me. Staff recommends approval for the site plan, subject to City Council approval of the zoning case. I'm available for any questions. We also have the traffic Engineer manager available for questions, as well as the applicant. Thank you. One quick question for me and then I'll turn it over to the commissioners. Just for the record, public Safety has signed off on the closure of the street for fire and police. The fire department has approved a variance for the closure of the street, since it wouldn't meet their requirements without one. And we all of the staff comments have been addressed for this case. Great. Mr. Mr. Bell, just one quick clarification on the signage. I think the presentation mentioned they were that the two signs on the garages were facing east. They're actually on the east side of Water Street, but they're facing west. I make that clarification. Great. All right, commissioners technical questions for staff, Commissioner Brounoff. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there apartments or residences facing Water Street or Windrose Avenue? There are. There is an apartment complex that is addressed to Water Street. I'm not sure if there are windows that overlook Water Street. I'm assuming that there are, though. Okay. I would want the applicant to clarify that. Thank you. Commissioner Ali. I think. Commissioner Bruno asked one of my questions. Most of the. This is. Move away from a little bit better. There we go. Most of the letters in opposition seem to be regarding Water Street closure. That's a privately owned street owned by the applicant, I'm assuming. That's correct. Okay. So it's within the applicant's right. As long as it doesn't violate city ordinances. If they want to close it or not, or make it no longer available to the public. That's right. Okay. Second question on the signage. Am I right in assuming the. One of the signs is viewable? If you're coming, approaching the development from the south. Just before you turn in, if you can go back to. Okay, so the first yellow arrow similar to Commissioner Brounoff, would there be any impact to any residents at night for that sign? If you go across the street, which is most likely more office complexes. But have we looked at glare or. So both of those signs face internal to Windrose Avenue. Are you asking if those are there are apartments that would be adjacent to the first row? I think that sign will be viewable if you're on the street about to turn in. It's large enough and high enough. That's correct. You would be able to see it from Legacy Drive. Legacy drive. It's on the currently the what's the Earl's restaurant and be facing south towards legacy. That's correct. There are no residential units on that side. Okay. That that would face that sign. To answer your question. And yours, there are residential units facing Water Street and Windrose. So those signs would be visible. But I believe the applicant has plans for how what times of day those signs will be on. And they could speak to that in terms of the impact to the residents. Thank you. All right. Other technical questions for staff anybody? Commissioner Lingenfelter? I just I think most of my concern with Commissioner Olli and kind of addressed with is but could you maybe clearly define quasi. Sure. So a quasi public street is a street that is privately owned and maintained, but it's open to the public to access, and it meets the standards of a public street. But the city does not maintain it, okay. And it's not it's not city right of way. That's correct. Actually, as he alluded to, it's owned by by the property owner. That's right. However, it can function as a an access easement, as I mentioned, or a fire lane, if there's a public access easement running down the travel lanes. So the public has rights to use the street, they can't block it off to the public. But it's privately owned and maintained. So are they abandoning that easement? They will they will abandon the fire lane portion of the access. They're not abandoning the access easement, but they are abandoning the fire lane. Correct. So that's that that's where you define that kind of half of it still remains. Right. All right. I did want to note that Commissioner Tong has joined us. I'm sorry. I just noticed you were here. Oh. Any other questions for staff? None. Okay. Let me open the public hearing. Do we have speakers on this item? There. There are five speakers. All five are registered as applicants. Okay. Then is there one particular one of you that wants to lead off or handle this presentation? Or how do you all want to address it if you're all listed as applicants? I think we might have some questions for you. I'm not that good at baseball, but I will lead off. Okay. Good evening Commissioner. My name is Rupesh Bhakta. I'm the chief operating officer for prison Places, and we are the operating partner for Legacy West investors. And here with me this evening is our entire project team. First and foremost, I'd like to thank the commission for their time and thoughtful consideration this evening, as well as city staff for all their time over the past few years, because it's been a long time since we've been processing this, this application. Legacy West has evolved over the past decade into a top tier, mixed use asset nationwide, boasting over 5 million visits per year and home to some of the best brands in the country. The reason why we're here today is we want to maintain that status and to push legacy West to, to, to the next level. As competition increases around us, we feel that it's very imperative to really improve what we have today and to maintain those standards in our in our presentation this evening, you will hear key words such as warmth, recreation, activation, art, technology and open space. All these key words have been the foundation of our design intent. And with that being said, I'd like to pass the mic to Jessica Clemens. Good evening commissioners. My name is Jessica Clements and I'm with studio outside landscape architecture firm. Thank you, Destiny, for the great. I don't know where she went, but thank you for the great opening. I'm going to try to put a little color behind some of the factual information that was already explained here this evening. As Rupesh mentioned, the Legacy West is a beautiful, vibrant shopping center within the DFW region, and we want to just improve it right from a public spaces perspective. And so our project is really focusing on other than the signage regimen, which is a little further within the project, the landscape architecture and the architecture really focuses in the entry park and the Water Street development that have been previously talked about. So just kind of zeroing in a little bit more on Water Street. This illustrative site plan really shows our intent. We are closing down Water Street, and the objective there is really to take a space that was designed for the vehicle and the pedestrian, but make it a little bit more pedestrian friendly. And some of the critique that the shopping center gets now is that it's kind of hard edged and it's a little dense and urban, and there's a lot of great qualities about that. But our goal has been to kind of soften that space and just make it a little bit more friendly for people to stay and linger and really enjoy the development as, as a public space or as a park. So closing down Water Street to vehicular traffic allows us to focus it in as a pedestrian space. And you can see sort of right in the heart of what we're designing is an open, flexible lawn space on one edge of the street. We're anchoring it with some really beautiful art that a later speaker will talk a little bit more about. And then on the other side, bookending that lawn area is a new proposed pavilion kiosk that will probably have some light food and beverage offerings in. It really is acting as a way of programing and activating that space. We've been very conscious about making sure that people are using that space in all sorts of ways. Along Windrose Avenue, we're also proposing some enhancements, so you can see the plan has got a lot of nice greens and pinks and yellows to it. All of that is represented by enhanced planting. And so there is an addition of planting that's being added to the street, which does offer that softening that we were talking about earlier. And it also is holding in a couple of key zones that we're kind of calling these indoor or excuse me, outdoor living rooms. And those are defined by some upgraded paving, a lot of seating and some enhanced lighting. Again, just providing more spaces for the visitor to stay and enjoy the space. These are some character images that sort of look at some of the design improvements that we're making to those spaces, including the tree types, the open lawn area. You can see some images that reflect the idea of the. Lighting that's a little bit more pedestrian friendly. And then this image here is really looking at that kiosk side, pavilion side, sort of looking right down the new lawn area. The entry park is sort of right off of Legacy Drive. As you enter into the development, and this area really offered a wonderful place to provide some increased pedestrian enhancements. There are some beautiful legacy trees here that were removed from the JCPenney campus back when the development was first put in place. And so those trees are kind of a visual anchor to the property, and we want to make them a little bit more usable and friendly for the people who are visiting it. So what we're doing is we're providing another outdoor living room, if you will, underneath this beautiful canopy of trees and then further activating that space with another pavilion that could offer some light food and beverage, really just kind of pulling the pedestrian activity down to the side of the development. All of these improvements are being made with some reduction of parking. Although we have checked that we it's all within the code parameters of the project. And here you can see some images that highlight how some of these spaces will look and feel. And then this perspective I think really illustrating the idea of the planting, you can see how that's kind of holding the spaces in that planting is not just meant to soften, but also to hold the pedestrian and give them a feeling of protective qualities from the vehicular traffic that's coming by. I'm going to turn this over to Barry Hand, who's going to talk a little bit more about the signage and graphics program. Thank you very much. Good evening. It's good to be back. Thank you for having us. I'm going to talk quickly because Destiny did a great job running through the signs that you're considering. But I want to give you a slightly larger view. And then I want to invite our artist team up to just show you kind of the final component of really bringing the project up to the next level. So you can see the different sign types that are going to be deployed in the next project, starting with Directionals at the entry. You're not considering those necessarily, but just in the name of showing you the entire package. This is coming off of legacy. And then up at headquarters, you'll see these type of directionals and identity gateways on the north and south sides. Vehicular directionals. As I mentioned, traffic and intuitive circulation is the lifeblood of these projects. If people can't figure out where they're going and have a difficult, difficult time parking, they won't come back. Obviously, Legacy West has been exquisitely successful, but all these projects have to stay relevant. And that's as Rupesh mentioned, we're always improving them. And, you know, feedback from the city, feedback from customers and always tweaking the mechanism. Parking Directionals again, as I mentioned, parking is the lifeblood of these projects. Once you get into the parking deck, how do you know to get back to your car? So there will be some improvements inside the parking deck. And then once you're out into the lifestyle street, these paseos back into the parking garage. Just upgrading these a little bit, updating them. This is the map that destiny that Destiny showed you. This is a really destiny. Did a great job of kind of showing you the three signs that will be considered these digital kiosks. There's actually seven of these on the ground. One is in the food hall. These are video boards or digital boards that allow for changing static images. This is the one that was referenced earlier entering the project above URLs. This would also be a digital sign of 45. By 20. You saw the area maximums on Destiny's presentation, and then this is the one kind of angular, angular angled in the plan at J crew. I want to check my time here. This is the one at J crew that's facing sort of in an angled way on the street. This is across from the fountain and ultimately where the proposed lawn is. Last but not least, we've got these two static signs going into the parking garages. And let me just say the purpose of these, in case you're wondering, the purpose of these is also about brand experience. You know, as retail continues to morph and as omnichannel retailers want that brand expression and communication back to customers and users, this is really part of the final, the final piece of the package for retailers and keeping them successful is to everyone's advantage. And then last but not least, the users like you and me, who go there from time to time, having that communication on the ground can be very good. Whether it's the digital kiosks or ultimately these larger static boards. We're here for questions. Of course. We'll stay as long as you guys want to stay. We know you have an agenda. Again, really our appreciation to staff. I want to invite the oldhams up to talk. You're not considering this, but again, I want you to see kind of the final piece of artwork that's being scheduled for the project. We think this is something people will drive 25 miles to see. And as you drive around the metroplex, you're starting to see this large format sculpture come into projects. They'll show you some references down in Deep Ellum, and this is all about keeping the project current and relevant into the next decade. So take it away. Yeah. Hi everybody. I'm Brad Oldham. This is my partner, Christy Coltrane. Christy is going to kind of take it over and go through it, and then I'll finish up. Like Brad said, Christy Coltrane and Brad Oldham, and we create site specific place making sculptures for communities, companies and collectors across the country. And we're always honored. We're based in downtown Dallas. We've been doing this 25 years, 26 years now. But we're always honored when we get a work near home. And this is a picture of us with our staff downtown. Here's an example of recent installations. Using our mirror polished stainless steel. You'll see in the lower right corner is The Traveling Man. That's what Barry referenced in Deep Elm. It's a 40 foot tall sculpture. In the lower left corner is a sculpture in Oklahoma City called Cloud Trees, and that one is 27ft. Wait, wait, 61,000 pounds. It's huge. It's awesome. And it's over a programed stage area. It's a site specific, destination worthy sculpture that also is provides function for events and community events. The inspiration for this sculpture first came from the trumpet vine and the vibrant colors, the neat shape, the athletic ness of the vine. I want you to hold on to these colors as we look through the rest of the slides, and we'll go very quickly, and we can answer questions at the end if you have those. The first installation is in the park on Water Street. There'll be a community stage there. This is the Trumpet Vine ballet. The performance. This is a sculpture made of mirror polished stainless steel cantilevered over the stage. And in the blooms you'll see there are ballet dancers coming out of the blooms. So this is a framework for events that will happen on that stage. It's also a destination of a free standing, site specific sculpture. And we feel like this botanical. This color will pull you into the park. We really wanted to have some vibrancy happening here. This is just an sorry, a detail. You know, for us, Clay comes first. And this is a detail of the charming dancer holding on to the vine. Another one, another one. This is trumpet vine ballerina misty. She is eight feet tall. So the. This is a collection of sculpture throughout the campus, starting at the stage. And then you'll find the dancers individually in different spots throughout the campus. So eight feet tall to the top of her, her hand, her outstretched hand. There's a clay model, there's Martha. So Martha and Misty will be near the Nike store. They'll be together. We have a trumpet vine ballet class. This will be between Mendocino Farms and Starbucks. So as you walk in, it's a nice greeting. And then the last installation will be Sophia, and she's in front of the food hall. Yeah. And as Christy mentioned, we've been doing this for a very long time. We use very strong materials, marine grade stainless steel. It doesn't rust. Most of the sketches and clays you see, those are not the engineered pieces. These will be engineered to withstand over 100 mile an hour winds and multiple people climbing on them, things like that. The colors are polyurethane, automotive paints. They hold up the same as a car would. Very durable and maintenance is pretty minimal on on all these items. But we'd be honored to be a part of this, and we're excited about being a part of Plano as well. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. That concludes our presentation. I think we get bonus points for doing it faster than 15 minutes, Mr. Chairman, is that true? Yeah. I can't speak for the rest of the commission, but I do appreciate you keeping it timely. There you go. We're here to answer any questions you may have. We know you have some speakers signed up. Possibly, but we respectfully request your recommendation. We look forward to going to council. Great. Stay right there. Just a second. Do we have other speakers registered on this item? There are. There are no other speakers. Okay. And I'll lead off with one question, because you said something that I didn't see in the staff report. You said that the digital signs would have changing static images as well. The purpose of video is that they can change over a period of time. It's not animation or anything like that. The city's sign criteria will not allow moving images, but as you see in your city, there are periodic changes to those images. Okay, so this is not going to be video. No no, no. They're going to be changing static like any other sign in town. Someone said earlier today a carousel of changing slides. Think of it that way. So great. Thank you for the clarification. Sure. All right. Commissioner Brounoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This thing will blast your ears out if I get too close. Sorry. That's. Actually. I can barely hear you. Oh, well, in that case. Yeah. Speak up. Bring it on. A couple of questions with regard to residential units overlooking Water Street and Windrose Avenue. Do those apartment units come with either blinds or curtains? Or if they don't, are the residents entitled to install their own? You know, we're not here representing the operator of the apartments, but let me answer your first question. Where are we here? So if you look to your left in this image, these are the apartment, the apartment units as you go down Water Street, the one right there over the restaurant that would be looking over the lawn at Water Street. We actually think those become premium units once this project is finished. As far as the signage that you see at J. Crew, the little round turret that would be facing kind of in an oblique way, in an angular way, the apartments that face the multifamily units that do face windrose right there. But let me let me stress, these signs would be under the same criteria that all digital or electronic signs in your city have. So there would be a sunset time that, you know, we would work with the operator and make sure that those are not a distraction at night. I can't answer your question about lease agreements and installing blinds in an apartment, but I'm sure that all these apartments you can see have some form of blinding on the window, blind treatment on the windows. Have you considered the impact of noise from the outdoor stage on the overlooking residential units? Yeah, yeah. Obviously, when you do a project like this with a stage, there has to be kind of operational hours. But honestly, we don't anticipate. And I'll let Rupesh speak as the operator. We anticipate kind of small acoustic type acts at this. You know, if there's a festival once or twice a year where they rotate bands through this little stage, it's not a big stage. It's very small. We anticipate this is going to be more like acoustic acts, maybe kids dancing troupes, you know, if there's a festival again and they close off this little block of windows for a weekend, there might be something. But again, those typically are shut down by a certain time at night. No, I'm thinking that a band of just four guys with their electric instruments can make a whole lot of noise if they. Yeah for sure. Have you considered other forms of usable open space rather than rather than an outdoor stage? Well, again, the stage is for a lot of purposes. The operator has talked about having fashion shows here. So, you know, they'll bring in risers and do other things. So there's a there's a range of activities that will happen on this stage. No, I understand that, but I'm just being realistic. I foresee that there's going to be some live music on that stage, and I'm wondering about the noise impact. Yeah. And those would have the same operational criteria that anything in a development like this with residential has, it'll need to be shut down by a certain time of night. How would you enforce that? It's enforced in all the operational contracts. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Ali. Yeah, I think the operator has an incentive to enforce. And the city ordinances, if I'm not mistaken, will enforce some of it if you go above your skis. I do still have a question on that particular. Sign facing the apartments. From an operational perspective. Sunset. Is it a total shutdown or is it just more of a demon? What? What does that look like? Yeah, I'm going to get into some real weeds here quickly. On electronic LED signage. This direct view signage just from past projects we've done, they typically lower it to about a 5% power, and it'll be kind of like you see on screensavers, whether it's stars or what, they don't turn them off typically, but they'll power it down to about 2 to 5% power. You really won't see much if you if you go to the Discovery District in downtown. They have a they put it to bed, they put that video screen to bed. And it's just a very low power, almost ambient type darkness that comes out of it from. Have you considered the additional foot traffic turning Water Street into essentially a utility stage and what have you? And do we have maybe this is more for the traffic engineer. Do we have a good sense of how we can regulate the flow of that foot traffic in and out, in such a way that we're not, you know, causing choke points, unintended consequences? Well, we always love it when people talk about foot traffic in a mixed use development, because that is the intent, right, to not only increase foot traffic, but for the foot traffic that's here. Keep them here. Jessica talked about these outdoor living rooms. You know, some of the criticism that we've gotten even from the city, besides the fact that there's not enough green space, is there needs to be more furniture. There needs to be places for people to linger and stay. So that's why you see the outdoor furniture and the living rooms and the fire pits and things like that at different places. As far as managing the footfall, as if you drive down Windrose on pretty much any given night, you'll notice that the traffic moves really slow. The presence of pedestrians tends to be a traffic calming device. We think actually closing Water Street makes it a safer place. A lot of times when there slow traffic, that's obviously quite naturally a safer place for pedestrians. So what we don't want is people racing down Windrows. So closing Water Street we think, helps that traffic congestion with cars. Okay. And we do have a rep from Kimley-horn here that can talk about traffic. If there are detailed questions about traffic and parking. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Binder. Thank you chairman. Well, what's the approximate size I lived? Just full disclosure, I lived at the villas across the street. Cross Communications for six plus years, so I'm very familiar. I walk this development every evening. You were in the townhouses. I was in the single family homes, actually. Are they okay? Six feet apart? Yep. Three stories tall. Okay, so they're not townhouses? Yeah, they aren't townhouses. Very good. Yeah, but, you know, these are great enhancements. I'll have some other comments I'll save for later. But having lived there, walked it. What's the approximate size of the green space that's going to be added? I think we saw in the previous report it's about 1.10.18 acres. Yeah. The lawn, the area that we're closing for public on Water Street is about 0.18 acres. So we're actually a net gain of open space. When you other developments like this that have that space, it works great. Oh yeah, I would say that and just a couple other comments. You know, having been there during Covid and there was a lot of furniture and outdoor seating areas that was done on purpose during Covid, and it was really incredible to see the gathering and the kind of atmosphere that you're trying to create. Yeah, really occurred during Covid, even though, you know, it was Covid, but that green space is really needed. And I think to your point, having lived there and seen the traffic and all the things that have been done over the course of time to control that traffic, the signage is really needed. And I think the closure of Water Street will be a plus. So great all the comments I had. Very good sir. Thank you. Commissioners. Other questions I had one one follow up and I'm not sure who to ask this question of, I presume, but I feel compelled to ask the question that the two multifamily complexes on either side of the street being closed or supportive of this request. Come on up so we can get you on the record. Yeah. What I was going to say is the owner of all of this owns all parcels, the multifamily. Yeah. I didn't know if it was the same operator, regardless of ownership, if it's the operators are supportive. Same owner. Operator. Okay, great. That's just wanted to clarify that for the record. So all right, commissioners, any other questions? Nobody. No other speakers registered. All right. I'll close the public hearing. Commissioner Brounoff. Yes, Mr. Chairman, let me clarify where I'm coming from on this. I think in general, the concept is great with respect to the signage on the buildings and the parking garages. I have absolutely no problem with it. I think they serve a useful purpose. They're attractive, and without knowing specifically, I'm willing to, you know, make a realistic assumption that apartment units are going to have blinds or curtains. I mean, it's just the way things are. So I don't see any sort of interference from the signage, the kiosks, you know, providing advertising and traffic direction are a good idea. Obviously, they create the need to replace the open space that is lost to the that now exists, that would be lost to the to the kiosks. Okay. That's why they want to close off Water Street and make half of it into an an open space. I understand what they're trying to do. The closing off of Water Street by itself does not concern me. It's a private street. It does not create a public right to use it as a as a thoroughfare. And the traffic department has looked at it and found that the, the traffic impact of closing off Water Street would be minimal. So if they want to turn it into a pedestrian friendly area, I think that's a that's a good idea. With respect to the open space, just going back when the when this development was initially approved, the city granted the applicant at that time credit toward the open space requirement for a proposed park on the other side, the west side of Communications Parkway. I am disappointed, you know, that the city has not moved forward with that park. Apparently they own the land, but they don't have any immediate plans to develop it. As as we learned during the preliminary open meeting earlier this evening. But I think that ball is in the city's court, not the applicant's court. I would just like to add a comment that I would like to see the city move forward on that park, because it's an amenity which would add to the attractiveness of this development. And the residents of this development. Mr. Bell, I believe we have some information about that, Mr. Bronner. Yeah, yeah. So in terms of the funding for that park, as of our current CIP, only design funds have been approved and design is underway, but no construction funds have been approved and it's not identified as an item in the upcoming bond. Yeah, well, I'd like to see it identified pretty soon. Otherwise, you know, an assumption that was made as part of the initial approval of this development has not has not come to fruition. And that's not the applicant's fault. Now, the one area of concern I have is that stage. It is unavoidable that that stage will be used for live music. At some point, live music will necessarily be loud and it will be loud right underneath residential units. And to me that would be a major disturbance and a negative impact against residents. Okay. The it could potentially be a disturbance and an interference with the quiet enjoyment of their residential units to the residents, whether that music takes place at 7 p.m, 8 p.m, 9 p.m. Or, you know, not to mention after 10 p.m, which when it ought to be shut down anyway. So I want to ask Mr. Bell, does the city have any ordinances that would regulate the generation of noise, and how would they apply to that, to that stage? Potentially, yes. The city does have a noise ordinance that it enforces. I believe there was an issue with noise coming from one of these properties on the north side, the food hall. And so the it's not regulated by planning. I believe it's environmental health. Who regulates that? They'll actually go out and measure the noise at the time that the noise is happening and take measurements. And if there's an issue, they will take enforcement actions. I don't know the specifics of what those standards are, but I know that they do enforce it. Well, yeah. But I mean, a music act just might be booked for 1 or 2 evenings. And by the time environmental. Let me jump in here. Yeah. Because I live two blocks from McCall Plaza. Okay. Where there are music acts on a regular basis, and the staff has been very attentive to the to the residents. And I will also tell you that on any night there is an act on McCall Plaza. Probably a third of the balcony is overlooking McCall Plaza. Have people sitting on them in lawn chairs? Well, but there could be people who so are disturbed by it. That's all I'm saying. But the staff has been very good because the neighbors did raise some concerns about it initially, and the staff's been great about enforcing the noise ordinance. So just speaking from experience, the McCall Plaza is a very similar. Yeah. I also want to add there's nothing there's nothing preventing them from putting the stage elsewhere on the site. As long as it's not an easement or sidewalk or something like that, they could have the bands in any other location. That's just what they're planning for the activity of this open space area. I was just thinking, there are other forms of open space. They could they could consider, like a green area, a plant with plantings walkways picnic tables, park benches, gazebos, lots of sculpture. I've loved the sculpture idea, but you know there are alternatives. But the one thing I'm hesitating about is the noise. And that's all. Thank you sir, Commissioner Ali. Yeah, I think what we are. Meant to look at today more than anything is the signage, given that Water Street is essentially a privately owned parcel of land, you know, having been in Legacy West, I think there's an assumption if you live there, there's a certain level of nois, because just forget the life stage. There's music usually playing at night from speakers, and there's almost an assumption. So we had a similar case, I believe it was a church that was had an assembly hall of some kind next to residential, and we had concerns regarding noise. And the enforcement ordinances are there in place if they do violate that of the city. So I'm not as worried about that. The tenants will vote with their feet if that happens to be the case. I always I always bias towards open space. You know, anyone who has who knows me on this, I'll bias towards open space and environmental standards. And again, given ultimately this feels like a refresh of a mixed use development, I, I will make a motion for consideration. Hang on one second. I think we have some other commissioners with comments, so hold that thought. Yep. Commissioner Bender, I'll come back to you, I promise. Chairman, just a couple couple comments. And again, my perspective is having lived there for six plus years. Part of the reason we moved to the villas is the energy that's created, which I think you were referring to, that people that come into that development are there for a reason because of the energy, the entertainment, the things that are happening, the vibe that is in that development. And I have witnessed firsthand the box garden when it opened, just because of the design of the facility, the Windrose condos, which are right there on the north side, take the brunt. They get a lot of the noise that comes from the box garden, and I have witnessed adjustments that have been made to the noise levels based on that which comes from, you know, input from the city. So I've seen that, you know, managed and I would say, you know, the investment that is being made here is tremendous to keep this, you know, top shelf first class, which is what we want, is very much appreciated. The artwork, the thoughtfulness and the open green space is tremendous. And I would echo your comments about the city because having living, you know, lived lived there. We're very excited about that park and inquired many times. And so I think that's that was really done as part of this whole development. And so I think, you know, I would ask join you in asking that the city consider developing that sooner than later, because there's not a lot of green space. There's a private park. As you go up into the development between the Windrose condos and level 29, there's a park, but that's a private park, so people that live in that area can't access it. It's only for the residents of the Windrose condos and the level 29. So more green space is awesome. So thank you. Just a couple of comments myself. I think Mr. Bender hit it on the head. I think the people that go to legacy and as I said, I live in the downtown area and the people that live in the downtown area the same way, expect a certain level of vibrancy. I mean, that's why they move there. They move there for that vibe, for that activity, for that live music, for those things. And if they're not liking that environment, that's not the right neighborhood for them. But people move there intentionally for those neighborhoods. And so I don't I don't worry at all about the stage living two blocks from one myself, because it's way more of a benefit than it is a liability in my book. And I think that's what people expect. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a gathering place. It's a I'm excited for you that you're putting it in. I think it'll be a great amenity for the center. And as far as the signage is concerned, from my perspective, I, I see the legacy area as as the modern deconstruction of the shopping mall. And the inward facing signage is no different than you would expect in any other shopping district. And I feel certain that's probably your intent is, is to encourage that activity level and keep those those, those tenants engaged and profitable and returning and renewing their leases. So I'm supportive of that as well. So overall, I think my personal opinion is it's a great package. I think it just will continue the momentum that you've had up to now and for many years in the future. So with that, said Commissioner Ali, I will add one more thing. As somebody who has lost his car parking in one garage and trying to find it in another garage, update the signs please, I move, we approve. Agenda item number two A as recommended by Staff Commissioner Bender. I would second the motion. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve. Item two A as presented. Please vote. Motion passes 7 to 0. Item two B. Commission. Mr. Commissioner Bronsky I move. We approve. Agenda item two B as recommended by staff Commissioner Lingenfelter. Second that. All right we have a motion and a second on item two B. Approved seven zero. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. We look forward to seeing you over there. Thank you. All right. Item three. Agenda item three is a request to rezone from Research Technology Center to Plan Development Research Technology Center to modify the permitted uses on 8.2 acres located at the northwest corner of Plano Parkway and Los Rios Boulevard. Petitioners I incorporated. This item is for legislative consideration. Good evening commissioners. My name is John Kim, planner with the planning department. Can you hear me? Okay, okay, great. Okay, so. So today we have a zoning case at the northwest corner of Plano Parkway and Los Rios Boulevard. Here's the zoning exhibit. It is just for this subject property. So the zoning request is to rezone the property from Research Technology Center to plan Department Research and Technology Center to allow commercial amusement with the following stipulation. Amusement commercial indoor is an additional allowed use. The maximum square footage of indoor commercial amusement is limited to 12,000ft■!S. The Research Technology Center District, or TX, is intended to create a low density employment center consisting of office, research and development facilities and limited assembly operations accommodating several users in a campus environment. Many of the properties within TX are office warehouse manufacturing uses, and often require larger buildings that are typical within the TX zoning district. Many of the permitted uses do utilize the larger buildings and is common in the area. Excuse me. There are other uses within TX that are permitted in the district to support the work activities of those employees within the district. The secondary uses may include banks, medical offices, tax services, health and fitness centers, among other uses, and these uses are supportive of the priorities of the TX district. In 2021, a site plan was approved for five buildings. Four of them were for office, showroom, warehouse and one of them was for a restaurant. And in 2024, building five. As you can see on the slide, there is the bottom left biggest building. It was revised and approved to be a daycare center, which is allowed allowed use in the district. And in this photo you will see three of the developed buildings. The two along Los Rios are along the top here, and then the medical office along Plano Parkway is on the right side, and then the daycare is under construction in the yellow. Just to note, the building for the daycare will be smaller than what was approved on the plan. In 2021, there will be a parking lot with the daycare center. So the petitioner has indicated challenges in fully leasing the suites. Under the TX zoning. Staff have previously met with the applicants to discuss the rezoning of the property to allow more retail, restaurants and service uses on the site. Staff was not supportive of the proposals due to the impact on the integrity of the art district and the overabundance of retail in the city, although although sympathetic to the petitioners challenges, the proposed request is inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the TX district. In the Art district, the median building size is 68,000ft■!S, and I do wt to note that on the slide it does say average, but it is median. The surrounding properties building range. So the direct surrounding property shown in the photo here they range from 58,250ft■!S to 135,000ft■!S and are leased in some capacity. And challenges in leasing the building are not a result of low demand for uses allowed within TX zoning, and so you can see, compared to the sites adjacent, this site has 12,000ft■!S buildings and 11,000ft■!S buildings, so they e much smaller, but they are still in compliance with the TX zoning. In. In TX, there is an occupancy rate of nearly 92%, and in a 2022 market study conducted as part of the Silver Line Station Area plan, TX properties in the Shiloh Area Road. Shiloh Road station area had modest vacancies, strong market demand, and realistic expectations for growth. This zoning request does not meet the purpose of establishing planned development districts. Planned development districts should guide the future development of the city in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan and aid in finding creative, innovative solutions. Only adding a retail type use is not an innovation and may lead to future requests for other uses in this area. So the primary use for in this area is for employment centers and therefore corporate office campuses. Medical centers, educational facilities, technology centers and research facilities. Limited manufacturing and warehouse uses may be allowed to support the employment centers. The proposed use is not aligned with the primary and accessory uses for the Employment Center, district or designation. Sorry, here's the conformance of the Comprehensive plan. It does not meet many of the requirements or policies for the zoning responses. We had one letter from the subject property. We received no other responses. And so in summary, the purpose of the TX is to create employment centers in a campus environment. And this use would not be meeting that intent of the TX. Zoning district. Occupancy is not an issue within TX district as there is high demand and strong tenants in in the area. The request is inconsistent with the purpose of a planned development with the purpose of a planned development, and is also inconsistent with the comprehensive plan. The item is recommended for denial and I'm available for questions. Thank you. Thank you. One question real quick can you define commercial indoor amusement for our zoning ordinance, please? Yes. So it does allow I think it's easier to kind of describe some of the uses. So it is for indoor entertainment like leisure activities. They may be like bowling alleys or arcades, escape rooms, pickleball or like businesses such as like painting with a twist, something like that, where you're painting and drinking, I think. So it's kind of those kind of indoor uses that are for entertainment activities. Okay. And so this would allow virtually any of those uses, not just the use requested. Correct? Correct. Okay. All right. Thank you. Commissioners. Technical questions for the staff. Commissioner Holly, just clarification on supportive uses in the art district. Is it a fair statement that daycare, health and fitness, medical secondary uses and incidental retail is written for the art district in order to support the businesses and employment within those districts, not as a primary use of those uses to be redundant. Yes, yes. So those are some of the permitted uses in the district. And, you know, they are seen as supportive, you know, such as the daycare that's on site or the health and fitness center. They can be supportive of the primary uses in the art district. And so, yes, those are okay. One other question as a part of this, one silver line is completed and what have you, this would only drive vacancy or not drive vacancy drive occupancy within the art district as we currently have it scheduled? Or do we see it having an opposing effect? So you're asking not the zoning request, but the Shiloh Road improvement, I believe so I believe the study does, you know, project a healthy growth in the area. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Bronsky. One question. Thank you for your presentation today. Thank you. I was wondering if you could characterize for me the difference that we would see in the level of full time employment for this proposed request as it compares to what the traditional employment value that we would see from traditional art position or job. So I believe, you know, in the studies that there are like projected higher incomes for some of the more, you know, advanced manufacturing jobs and industrial jobs like that. I can only assume they might be higher than a typical job at, you know, at a place like a play center. I can't I can't predict fully exactly if that would be the case. I would say. But you're saying in general, the opportunity for employment, that the Art center represents would be higher used as the art design as opposed to watering down from what the allowed uses that we've created here already that were meant to enhance. But rather than explore or grow the list even further, I believe so, yes. Okay. And to that extent, you know, I just recently was having a conversation about the level to which we have employment in the city. So I know when I moved to the city of Plano, the employment or employer side of the tax base was close to 60% of covering taxes in the city and 40% on the residents. And as we slowly move away from employment driven things such as the art center and watering it down, I worry that now we are close to 50% balance, that we continue to sway the wrong direction. And I think maintaining the integrity of the art as you've recommended seems to make sense to me. So thank you. Of course, Commissioner Tong. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm just trying to understand the difference between the indoor amusement use or commercial amusement use and the uses like this. They allow the use, like health and fitness, fitness centers or trade schools or massage therapies. They all seem to. I think I may have heard you saying that the indoor amusement use is a commercial or retail, but these uses that you just had, I don't know why it's just moved away. Can you bring back that slide for the allowed the uses to me that if you allow them to do a fitness center or health fitness center, would that be similar to having like a pickleball court or having a kids zone playground? Would wouldn't that be similar? So I think the zoning ordinance does apply. Some define some of those as more service uses, whereas this would be a retail type use. Oh there we go. And so I think, you know, for example. Oh, oh I said yeah, just came back. Got it. For example, I think, you know, the daycare for some employees that might be working in the area, you know, they can drop their kids off there and, you know, it can be supportive during the daytime. And so a lot of the PT district goal is for, you know, the workweek and daytime activities. And so that's what it kind of supports. And I think with this case, you know, there might be. More of an let's see attempt for activity at all times during the week. And so I think that's kind of maybe the difference if that makes sense. Well, I'm thinking if they do use it or they did use it as a pickleball court, what's the difference between that and the fitness center? So I, I think that's just kind of how it's determined in our zoning ordinance that may be cleared up in the future. But I think our ordinance, as we have understood it now, pickleball would be entered into that indoor amusement and not just health and fitness. I think the that's retail. Sorry. So the issue is health fitness centers like LA fitness a gym where you go, you know, do some exercise. The indoor commercial activity is meant to be more entertainment focused. So the pickleball, you're charging a fee, you're typically going to have a bar or some type of food service to go along with those activities. Not like just playing pickleball for the sake of the recreational purposes of it. So that's the distinction between those two uses, if that makes sense. I think I see what you're saying. Where are you going with that. So that would be categorized as retail and the fitness center wouldn't be retail. Correct. They're both service uses. But one is more recreational and one is more entertainment focused. Okay. So the entertainment, the again thinking bowling alleys, bingo parlors, these are all the kind of uses that are classified as indoor commercial amusement. Gotcha. Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right. That's all your questions? Yes, Commissioner Bender. Thank you. Chairman, I think you had mentioned, was it 92% occupancy? Yes. Thank thank you. Okay. Commissioner Bruno, thank you. I believe you showed on the screen that the zoning limits accessory uses to 10% of the floor area of the site. Is that correct? Yes. So let me get to that slide. So some uses such as a restaurant, there are some other uses in the ordinance, but they are limited to 10% of the gross floor area of the entire site. So whether that's one building or multiple buildings it can't be more than 10%. There is a restriction, you know, for restaurants, I believe it has to be if it's a standalone building, it does have to be, I think 5000ft■!S or greater. But overall it does have to meet that 10%. I do not believe that includes the incidental retail or restaurant that, you know, some businesses may have, but more the standalone restaurants, so to speak. If this application were to be approved, would it still be subject to the 10% limit? So I think if this application was approved, it would I think the primary use for in this exemption in this example would be the commercial amusement. And so it wouldn't be that restaurant. So if it did have incidental restaurant or retail in there, it would have to meet all of our requirements for incidental retail, which basically means like no signage on the outside and things like that, but I believe it would be separated. That's not my question. Does the application seek to establish indoor amusements as a as an allowed primary use for the property, or simply as one of the allowed accessory uses? It would be a primary use. Okay, so then it would not be subject to the 10% limit. Correct. All right. I'm wondering whether the daycare center would would qualify as as using no more than 10% of the gross floor area of this of this site. So the daycare center is allowed by the ordinance. And so there's no restrictions as a primary use or as a second as an accessory. Primary use as a primary use. Yes. Okay. So it's not subject to the 10% either. Correct. All right. Now. Looking at the aerial view and having driven through that, general, you know the area numerous times, it's and as you pointed out, it strikes me that the average building size of the of the RT buildings that currently exist are much larger than the buildings that are on the ground here. Now on this site. So the question I ask is, is it a realistic expectation that these small buildings are even suitable for a research and technology use? So I think whenever these buildings were initially. Let me go back to this slide were initially approved. They were all buildings one, two, four and five were approved as office warehouse buildings. And I think the intent was, you know, I think I believe at the time there may have been less of a demand for larger buildings. I think it was during Covid times. And so, you know, they wanted to do more start ups and businesses that may require less space than the typical RT business. But I think the RT demand, you know, has shown to be strong during since that time. And I think it's just the challenge for the site being designed in a more in a more retail commercial type design where you have multiple suites and entrances compared to a typical RT design. So what you're saying is the buildings as built. Tend more to lend themselves to perhaps a retail use than a research and technology use perhaps. I think so because of their size and their design. Is that right? I think so, which puts us in a quandary, you know, I mean, I mean, on the one hand, we want to preserve our research and technology district. On the other hand, what else can we do with these buildings? I don't know, I mean, is that a question for the staff, or do you want to save that for the debate? Rhetorical question okay. All right. Commissioner Olli, I want to come back to in my head two separate things. Supportive use for the district and incidental retail service. A supportive use is a use that anchors employment to the district. Daycare, bank, health and fitness. I've worked in various corporations that are almost like we had a lifetime fitness, essentially, but it was really so that the employees don't go home and we can, you know, go work out and come back to work and things like that. The incidental retail, the reason why we are capping it to 10% of the building is, again, because we are trying to drive behavior that anchors, again employment to the district or to the site plan so that you have Toyota, I believe, has it they have a Walmart or something in campus so that you don't have to get out of campus to go buy stuff, right? So I where we what this is asking is for a retail use to become a primary use disconnected from anchoring the district. And that's why I think this doesn't vibe with what we intended that parcel of land to do. So your question, am I off key? I might I might add in I think retail and restaurant was specifically limited to 10% to prevent the construction of retail shopping centers in this district, because you combine those uses that you might see in a shopping center with more retail and restaurant, you end up getting strip shopping centers. And that's not the intent of the art district. Okay, okay. Commissioner Bronsky question for the staff. With the size that these buildings are and what we're talking about. When I think back to a vote that I made on a parcel that was we needed to be a little more patient with the Fry's development parcel that is coming back to us now. Mr. Kim, would you say that? Should we, by looking at the staff's recommendation, are you suggesting that maybe we be a little bit more patient, that this there's a good potentiality with a 92% occupancy rate, that this particular building could very well be filled with something that would be greater of a greater level of employment. And that would be closer aligned with what the art district is supposed to have in it. So I don't know that I can say for sure, but I do think there are other possibilities, such as the uses listed on the slide here that can that have traditionally taken on buildings of this format before, you know, maybe, maybe over time there may be developments in manufacturing or office space, warehouse space that, you know, may utilize these buildings. And that is certainly a possibility. But I think at this time, I think we are just recommending that the denial to respect the intent and purpose of the art district. And so just to make sure that, you know, we are preserving the intended use of the property in the art district. So to answer your question, I don't think staff is suggesting that these buildings are suitable for office, showroom, warehouse. I think those concerns were raised when the original site plan was approved. But the buildings meet zoning and so they were approved. The concern here is that the investment was put into buildings that cannot be occupied. And that was not that was a decision by the property owner. And the investor is not a problem with the art district. So is it likely that the buildings may remain vacant? There's a possibility that that happens. If this is not approved. However, this is seeking. The request that's being sought. Here. Is a result of those decisions and not of the zoning that's in place today. That is, the zoning itself is not leading to the vacancy. Yeah, okay. That's kind of what I was looking at. So last question. Whenever I look at the conformance to the comprehensive plan, which everybody knows is important to me, could you discuss just for a moment? I mean, I see about 6 or 8 different places where this particular option would be not in conformance with the plan. Everything from the future land use map on down. Yeah, of course, I'll try my best. Thank you. So as far as the descriptions and priority of the future land use, so it is the entertainment centers, which is again the purpose is to create job centers and things like that. And so it does not meet that requirement. The redevelopment of regional transportation transportation corridors policy, I don't know at this time, but maybe with additional review. Mr. Bill, I don't know if you have comment on that one. Yeah, I could sum it up. Those all those policies between redevelopment of regional transportation and the housing value retention analysis, all speak to the abundance of retail and the avoidance of proliferating additional retail so that it leads to additional underperforming sites as a result of that, similar similar to what we would see at Assembly Park as it sits vacant with all the retail brand new retail that was put in and the 47 different corner strip malls that we currently have across the city that are vacant. So this would simply be adding additional retail in areas that we already don't want. Retail and creating something yet more out of conformance with the comprehensive plan that we put so much time and effort into creating. I think the city has long standing policies about the concerns about too much retail. It's not that new retail is not successful, it's that it poaches from the existing retail, which leads to further decline in those existing shopping centers. Okay. Thank you. Following up on something, you said one question real quick about the intent of the art district. If you can go back to that slide with all the auxiliary uses right there. Thank you. And Commissioner Olli talked about this briefly, but I'm going to simplify it for me. The way I read the allowed uses is, in my mind something I can run, take care of during my lunch break or something I can take advantage of before or after work so I don't have to go all the way home or or, you know, go work out before work, or I can go work out at lunch or I can drop my kids off near my place of employment, or I can run, see my accountant during my break and get my taxes done. It's supporting the employment in that district. So am I oversimplifying that, or is that the intent of the accessory uses in the art district? Yes, I believe that is accurate. Okay. Thank you. All right. Any other questions for staff? All right. I'll open the public hearing. I believe the applicant is here. Is that correct? If the applicant would like to come forward and give us your name and address, please. Good evening. Commissioners. My name is Amir Hamza. I'm part of the ownership for this site here in the art district. We started this site right in the middle of Covid. And as everybody knows, everybody was downsizing, retail was downsizing, warehouses were downsizing, medical were downsizing. Everything was trying to downsize as much as possible. And we decided to give something a little bit different in the art district. We're like, hey, there's a lot of mom and pop businesses that want to open up, and maybe they don't want to take 10,000, 15,000, 20,000ft■!S of space, and they want to open something a little bit smaller and start their business. And we're like, this is the opportunity for this to, you know, for these, these companies that may have had more space or wanting to have more or less space to be able to transition into a facility like ours. Unfortunately, we started leasing in 2021 and we have been on every CoStar Loopnet everything that you could think of on the top of every single page, and paying thousands of dollars every single month to be on the top. And I have not gotten much art district users. It's and maybe it's by design, but even with the 12 zero zero zero square foot building in total, I still have not gotten one that I'm able to be like, hey, let's go, let's make a deal. Or we would have made a deal with him and we would not be in this position here today. And so we have tried our best to make deals that fit into the art district users. But saying that there's always this, this, always this 92% occupancy of this 2022 study. And not to disregard that, but if you ever actually drive on art district, you can notice that, hey, there's tons of places for lease and there's excuse me, there's quite a bit of square footage, and if you just kind of take it to the account, it just seems odd that there's a high demand when I'm having brokers and everybody trying to lease my spaces and it's not happening. And so saying that we are just a little bit of history about us, we're a family owned business. We've operated actually in Plano on Spring Creek and Alma our whole life. We've we are in the retail side. We do have some retail shopping strips and we are hands on in everything that we do. We are diligent. We build everything from the ground up, and we try to work hard to bring a community into, into our spaces. We don't lease to whoever we want to build a shopping center or a, you know, in this case, buildings that that mesh together and that work together and it's whole, entire, whole entirety. Unfortunately, as of now, I'm about 50% leased in. That includes that daycare school that's about to come up. So if you take the daycare school out of it, I am in the 30, maybe 25, between 25 and 30% leased with everything that I have and not to, you know, get very personal, but we have spent $11 million on this project thus far, and we're about to spend a few more with the daycare and a few more kind of continuing this project, and to be able to present something and have it, you know, a solid a solid profile here and a property here. The issue is, is again, the medical office users are not leasing. It's a little bit too industrial for them to come, even though we have a couple of medical users, they're not coming. And we have tried from, you know, different labs to compound pharmacies to you name it. We have tried that and they are not coming in. We have, you know, given them so much in t money, almost begging them to come lease from us. And still it's not happening. And so and that's just on the medical side, on the office side, a lot of a lot of people, as you all know, offices down everywhere, you can get office space, you know, pretty much anywhere you'd like. So there's not a lot of new kind of new people, new companies that are willing to spend some money on building their office space. And so we we're kind of in a pickle now. And with all the money we have spent, we have the daycare group and it needs it needs the support. It needs something that not only that people in the nearby businesses can drop off their kids, but also need some some daily traffic into the center. If you come to my center right now, it is vacant. You'll see a couple cars parked with just the tenants, and they're trying to make it as best they can. And that's the biggest thing is, is they need a little bit of more foot traffic just to get some eyes onto the, onto the, onto the, the, the center there. So saying that this concept and the reason why, you know, this hyper kids indoor playground and really that's the only use that I'm going to use it. I don't I'm not going to put pickleball. I'm not going to put a hockey. I'm not going to do any bowling alley. I need this indoor playground for these toddlers because number one, there's a lack of it in the Plano market. And there's a couple other reasons as well, because they they there's nothing like it here. For example, they are the only ones only kind of indoor playground that takes about 12,000ft■!S. They actually wantd close to 15,000ft■!S. And so normal retail shopping centers will not work with rental rates around 25, 30 bucks a square foot because they're trying to be affordable for everybody. When you go to your normal Jump Street, you're spending about 2025 kids dollars per per child. But when you're coming to this indoor playground, you're spending around 8 to $10 per child. There's no food, there's no kitchen, there's no grease trap. There's none of that. It's just a place for these young toddlers can come in, get a workout, get exercise, have a potentially a party, and also support the auxiliary businesses that are that are there. And I understand and my rest of my team can can attack more on the technicality of everything. But just coming from on the business side of where we are at. And I hope y'all can also take that into account. But as of right now, I have celebrate. I have this potential hyper kids. If this goes through and I have an indoor sorry, I have an urgent care pediatrics that could also support this. And I also have an internal list. And I do have to have a health and fitness user and that's pretty much about it. And the rest of the spaces are vacant. And so I just don't want them to be vacant, especially with these beautiful buildings, as you can see and see if we could do something about it. So I'll pass it on to call. Carl Crawley, 2201 Main Street, Dallas, Texas. As the mayor said, we would I'd love to just say the only use for this indoor. We don't want a bowling alley, we don't want a skating rink, is an indoor children's playground. That's a use we'd sort of have to define it in the PD. I think it could be done. I've done similar things in other cities such that if in the next speaker after me, we'll talk more about hyper kids. But hyper Kids is a national brand. This would be the first place pretty much out of the East Coast. I think they've got some in Ohio, but I still consider that East Coast for us here. But it would be the first place in Texas. They have some coming soon in Houston, but of course we'd rather have something here first instead of Houston. I think we all agree on that, but so we would be willing to limit it to that use with the daycare next door. We think it's a synergy. If you looked at some of the aerial photos that your planners showed, a lot of those parking lots around us are vacant. I've been out there a few times on Saturday and Sunday. The big industrial use across the street on Saturday and Sunday is crickets. They don't. They're not a 24 hour facility or seven days a week. We then add something to this intersection, this area that is now a seven day use. It plays off of the daycare. The daycare obviously sees this facility. The people bringing the daycare, there could be workers around there. If you look at your aerial and I think I've got an aerial a little forward, but you've seen it. The residential is a couple of hundred yards away and most of it to the east is all residential. This is at the very edge of that portion of the PT district. So this this neighborhood is at the fringe of the PT, and then we get into a neighborhood. If you looked at your comp plan, it even showed that as a neighborhood area there. So this is going to serve that area. And it's going to serve a greater sort of Plano area. We think it is a synergy for what we're building, and we are building the daycare center. It's not a occupied space. It's a whole new space, and it's a national celebrity, is a national organization that does childcare. They feed off of that corporate stuff. We have represented them in some corporate locations, but they also are used for the neighborhoods and the schools in the area. And we think this provides that. One additional use for that makes that a, a, a intersection that is occupied seven days a week. Now, is that going to create a giant traffic generator? No, this is not a giant traffic generator. And the daycare is not open on Saturday and Sunday. But this would be and then could sort of occupy that space in the parking and the other things that would be vacant just like any other use, usually on Saturday and Sunday. So we think this plays an important role in that intersection and the whole area. And it's an opportunity for Plano to get this national brand, the first one in the state of Texas. So and I've got one other speaker. Thank you. Wes has children. My children are bigger than I am. So they. Wes at 2201 Main Street, Dallas, Texas. And yes, I do have a two year old and these are where I spend my weekends. Now. I don't go to bowling alleys or anywhere fun. I go to kids focused events, mostly parks and AC a couple weekends ago and then, you know, a play street down in Midlothian. I live in Fort Worth, and unfortunately there's really none of these places around me. I have to go over multiple county lines to get them. We have birthday parties that I have to travel immense distances to, to, to go to on a Saturday morning at 10 a.m. And we're there for about an hour or two. And if I had something like this close to my neighborhood, I would be ecstatic. My daughter does go to daycare and she still comes home a ball of energy. She's over a little over two years old, and I. I like these places because they wear out, you know, it's nice. And the neighborhood to the, you know, specifically to the southwest, they have a community pool. But I noticed that that neighborhood doesn't have, you know, multiple areas for children to play in. This is kind of that area to fit that need. And that's something that I would really relish as a parent for my two year old, to have somewhere to go where I can enter at a low cost. It's open to everybody. It's not. I don't have to reserve it for two hours. The AC was was at was in Arlington and it was a private birthday party and it was very expensive and it was a three year old. So we were invited as a two year old to kind of fill the space a little bit just because of the cost. And so having a place like this, that's a lower cost, where you can go have your child burn out a little bit of energy for an hour or two hours, three, go get lunch, even come back. That's something that's really attractive to me as a parent that I would personally see as a benefit to this area and not a detriment. So we're happy to answer any questions. But that's kind of I'll kind of go through the slides, but I don't know if there's anything else that would need to be specifically covered. But thank you for your time. Commission questions for the applicant. Commissioner Bronsky I do. I've got a couple you mentioned operating at the corner of Custer and Alma. Which of the which corner is that? Spring Creek and Alma. Spring Creek and alma. Which India Bazaar center CC's pizza. AutoZone center. Two story. That southeast corner. Correct? Correct. Correct. And there was an old BBVA that was sold recently as well. They closed down and now they're open. It's another bank. Ozk is opening that up in the future. Yeah. And I yes, just thinking about the condition of that parking and that that corner as I got a couple questions. So let me ask you this. When you think about the art district as it's set up, is it designed for child entertainment? I would say to be honest, no, it's not okay. Is it designed for foot traffic? It depends on if you want a lively, you know, Plano Street. I mean, all the all these businesses that have 80,000ft■!S, I mean, they all obviously have employees. And if you look at their if you look at the parking, it's pretty vacant even during the week. And so it's not like they're not struggling to it's not like, you know, the foot traffic needs to obviously be there. So to answer your question. Yeah. Like maybe the amount of foot traffic at retail would have is not necessary. Like I have other retail centers that bring in over a million people a year. And I guess my question though is, is the art district designed to have retail foot traffic? Well, y'all designed a 10% in that. And you also have other users like health and Fitness in there as well. Oh good. I'm glad you brought that up. Yes, because that's my next question. Yes. Is so those those other uses that you just mentioned correct. What's their purpose? Well, the restaurant for example, is when people are off on their lunch break, they can go grab some food. And so they're designed those other uses, they're designed to augment or help the art district or the people that are employed there. Correct? Correct, correct. But what you what I heard you guys say. That what we were what you're adding here is actually designed to augment not the art district, but the daycare that you're putting in. Is that correct? I mean, it's for the whole site and really for the whole site and for the whole city of Plano, because at the end of the day, we can easily have beautiful vacant buildings just staying there and being vacant. And, you know, I understand that. And that's really the point here that we're trying to get to is that, sure, we may not be in fully compliance with the art. We're kind of past that. We completely understand that. It's the point that, hey, we are in a bind here, and if we don't do something, you're going to have vacant buildings that are just going to sit like this. And really, it's not like more tenants are going to come when these tenants are their leases are over and they're not doing so well. They're going to leave. And so you're going to have a, you know, acres of, of site on a corner of Plano Parkway and Los Rios that's going to be vacant. And, and I'm not trying to change it into a retail strip center. That's not my goal. I'm just asking a little bit of a help to try to get this one user in so that I can then fill in the rest with art users. And so it's not like I'm asking the whole site to be a shopping center. I'm asking one specific building out of four five buildings, one of them to be more specifically towards this. And that's and that's really just to help the overall site in order for it to be leased. Okay. So I have a staff, a question for staff. Let's finish with the applicant and we'll come back to that after we finish the public hearing. Commissioner Olli. Not to sound like I'm piling on more of a question to orient myself. When was the site, when did you purchase the site? We purchased the site, I would say close to ten years ago now or 8 to 10 years ago. Probably close to that. It was zoned DT by then. It was owned by then. Yes. And at that time DT was struggling tremendously. Understood. What do you purchase with the understanding of the intent the city had for that district? Is that a fair statement? To be honest, and if I could be as open as possible, the purchase was not done correctly from the beginning because because of the zoning, the people who purchased the site did not have much real estate knowledge into to looking into future zoning. And I'm sorry to say that, but it is true. And so we kind of shot that's not that's you the purchaser. Correct. Okay. Before my time. Yes. And that's why I'm saying that to your point, yes. You are correct that if any good developer would have looked at it and be like, hey, this is a DT district, these are the users that you can have, so you are not the original owner ten years ago. No, we are, we are. But it's a family owned business. So this came you know, this is my father was the one who purchased through daddy under the bus and said. And so and so now we're at a point where it's like, all right, well, what do we do? You know, it's like we spent this money, we've tried to develop it, we're trying our best, and we built beautiful buildings. It's not a rectangular box, you know. It's there's some design elements. There's lots of lots of time and energy has been spent into these buildings. And, and it go ahead. Okay. So second question, the two smaller or three smaller buildings. Yes. When were those built. So all of those were 2021. So 20 2021. Yes sir. During Covid similar question. Still with the understanding of the purpose of the DT. So yes, they were. And if you look at the zoning, it seems very broad in the art district. If you look at it, it has a lot of different users inside. And so we felt like we were able to kind of lease with that in mind, because you're able to have bank health facilities and even seems like a lot of, you know, similar to retail, but also having some office and some flex. So you get a nice mix of different zoning in there. And so that's what we came to see that, hey, we can we're able to, to lease here. But after trying to lease and you know we've been leasing for really over three years now. And so the fact that we're not even close to this 92% occupancy, where we have signs and we are on top of, you know, every costar and loopnet is something to be said here, that that there is something going on here that's, that's maybe not as, as correct. Yeah. Because the zoning was not intended for retail. Correct. Correct. So but even know DT users are coming to me and saying, hey, you know what, I want 12,000ft■!S. And en when I have it on CoStar, I have up to 20 500 zero square feet. So you would think that people would at least call me. And because I had a building five was supposed to be 20 500 zero square feet, and so I'd have at least people reaching out wanting to, you know, do something with that 25,000 and have not had any, any traction other than the, you know, ancillary services like your health, fitness, like your medical officer users. I'm slowly getting those, but I'm not getting like your Shutterfly or, you know, your Airbus that's down the street, you know, or all those kind of those tenants, those are your those those companies have moved here and that's where they want to be. And the remaining spots have not are not getting leased. And you can see that and I, I understand trust me, I've run a small business before. Yes, sir. I feel your pain, but I want to understand if you know that what we need to solve for is the city's needs. Yes, sir. Not necessarily a particular business needs. Yes, sir. I completely understand. Commissioners. Any other questions for the applicant? Nobody. Okay. We had. Oh, I'm sorry Commissioner Lingenfelter. Yes, I think everybody's kind of touched on a lot of stuff I was already thinking of. But you've kind of hinted on some things too, and something that we have to consider as well when we make decisions and we deviate from from make from maybe recommendations or even from, from the concept plan, because we do have to basically sign our lives away. If we do that, we have to also understand precedents. And are we setting a precedence not just for you but others? Yes. And in the district and other ownerships and stuff. And we got to be considered. We got to be consider are we setting a precedent if we deviate? And that's something we really have to consider here. And I just want you to be aware of that. And I don't see a way around that very easily. So yes, sir. And I do really appreciate that. I know I'm coming here asking a lot, you know, and I know and I know Art district is the baby of the city of Plano. And trust me, I've heard it, I know it, and I support it. I want the businesses to grow in there and I want it to be better. But this is a unique case. It's not like, again, those big buildings where it's hard to, you know, potentially come in and do another zoning change on a building that's 8000 500,000ft■!S. These are the only buildings in the district that are the size. And so maybe this is another way that, you know, is a certain situation and scenario that could, you know, help benefit this, but I understand. Commissioners. Any other questions. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. I think the only person that was registered that didn't speak was Laura Gunn. I don't know if. No, I'm not going to speak. Okay. We have anybody else registered to speak on this item? There are none. Okay. I'll close the public hearing, reserve the comments to the commission. I'm going to lead off a little bit on this one just because I. I understand the applicant's challenge. I feel your pain. The issue I have is the use. I think the use is interesting, and I think it probably is something that's needed in the community. But indoor amusement is allowed in ten of our 14 commercial zoning districts by right. It's allowed in two other ones by special use permit. It's only prohibited in two, which is this art district and neighborhood office. So I would I would hope that the users, the indoor playground would look at one of the uses where they're allowed by right, because it's intended to be in those districts where it's closer to homes and intended to be a 24 hour, seven day a week operation. I am very concerned about the erosion of the art district by allowing other uses in there that aren't supportive of the employment. I think the intent was to have an employment base with support services that are for the employment base, and I cannot rationalize no matter my gymnastics, I go through an indoor playground for toddlers, being supportive of an employment base. It just doesn't fit to me. Daycare fits to me, medical fits to me, fitness fits to me. I could even make an argument. I want to go play pickleball at lunch, but an indoor toddler playground I can't make. I can't make that leap. So that's where I am. So I'll open it up to the commission. Commissioner Brounoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The rhetorical question I have framed before, which was preserving the integrity of the intent of the art district versus a non-performing property, was not intended to suggest a solution. It was simply intended to frame the issue. Okay. In resolving the issue, I think I have to ask who should bear the risk of a non-performing property, the applicant or the city? And in this case, it was the applicant who, with knowledge of the art district, with the underlying purpose of the art district to anchor the district as a source of employment for a particular type of industry, chose to come forward and ask for permission to build these buildings. He was granted that permission but was placed on notice. This is the zoning that you have. If you can. You know, as long as you understand that you can build your buildings. It was the applicant who designed who decided upon the design and the size of the building, which apparently have proved to be unsuitable for the type of use which is the basis of the zoning. If the risk of the non-performing property is placed upon the applicant, the applicant has risked a significant investment. If the risk of the non-performing property is placed on the city, then the city has suffered as you put it. Mr. Chairman, an erosion of one of the major economic generators of the city, namely the Research and Technology District. I think it is only fair that the consequences of decisions which have proved not to be successful should be placed upon the people that made those decisions. And in this case, that is the applicant. I'm not I'm not insensitive to the quandary he finds himself in. I hope he can find a way to make this property work within the art concept. But if he can't, it was it was the owner's decisions that that got him in this situation in the first place. I'm sorry to say, I believe the city has too much to lose to underwrite and, you know, to approve an erosion of the art district. So for that reason, I must reluctantly oppose this request. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bender. Thank you. Chairman, I would echo your comments, Commissioner Brounoff. And in a slightly different angle. You know, the EDC part of the city working on economic development is has had a lot of companies that have relocated here recently that are technology related type firms that want to grow and also want to manufacture. Here in Plano, I met with a firm today that's a robotics firm relocated from California, and they're going to be expanding, and there's got to be a place for companies like that. And what we see over the course of time are peaks and valleys in demand. Right. And I think that's that's why we have to be diligent in maintaining the integrity of the intended use, because we have we're going through one of those times of expansion. We're having companies that come here that would fit this need, that are wanting to grow. And so I think that's why we need to preserve the intended use, because we go through these periods of economic times. So those are my thoughts. Mr. Bronsky. Oh, that that's okay. All right. I'll go. Mr. Kim, can I ask you a question? And that is. Sorry about that. A couple meetings back, we looked at a map of the art district, and we noticed that there were places where the art district had been gobbled up and shrank. Should we approve this? This would be a further erosion into that map, am I correct? Correct. Okay. Thank you. That was my question for you. I just wanted to. So I've got to say with full disclosure, my four grandchildren would absolutely love to visit this playground that you're describing. And I think it would be a great experience for them. But as we've talked about up here, this isn't this isn't something personal and this isn't something against wanting you to make profit, wanting you to be successful in the area. It's not even in not wanting to be one of the leading edges of this kind of entertainment for people this age. Commissioner Bender hit it right on the nail on the head. This is about preserving the intended use. And if we open up the uses for this, that is not designed to support the art district itself. It's actually the. The applicant made it clear that this was designed to support the ancillary use of the district, which I think we start getting so far removed from the intention of the art district that it it makes it untenable for us as a commission to appropriately maintain the integrity of the district itself. So I've got to agree with the previous commissioners that I just can't see gobbling more into this district. And I'm not going to sit and regret another vote in saying that. We probably should have waited. And I think Commissioner Bender's point of the peaks and valleys of the art. Usage, as we may be at a valley of that right at the moment. But this was intended for an art district. We made it clear when the applicant purchased it, and they've even acknowledged that it was purchased with not a full understanding. The city shouldn't bear that, should they, Mr. Kim? Let's keep yeah, I don't I don't know if that's a fair question for staff. Let's keep that amongst ourselves. I would argue the city shouldn't bear that. As Commissioner Brounoff said. And again, the lack of conformance to the comprehensive plan, to me, is also another issue that lumps on top of that. So thank you. Thank you. Now, Commissioner Ali, I apologize. I'll keep it short. We're solving for the district, not the site. Is the art district still returning on the investment the city has made to the district? That's a work stream for economic development or planning department. To figure out if we need to look at the district and rejigger, you know what we intend that district to do when we make capital intensive outlays around the district. It's with the looking at it from a long term, you know, Plano 2050 perspective. And if we have to change our uses for district every 3 to 5 years due to a macroeconomic conditions, nobody's going to move here because there will be too much uncertainty, because nobody can tell what rules they're going to play with every 2 to 3 years. So I think I I'm in support of what everyone is saying and will be opposing this. Unfortunately, because again, this does not solve a pain point for the district and the city. Thank you, Commissioner Lingenfelter. And not to repeat what everybody else has been saying, just to add to it, this is more directed to the applicant. We do care. We do want you to succeed. We have we just we have to adhere to what is set by the city zoning wise, conceptual plans wise. You had talked about Loopnet and all these things. I don't know if you've reached out to the EDC. Doug Bender, Commissioner Bender had alluded to them. I don't know if you've talked to Doug McDonald, but he's he's great and he and his staff is great with the EDC. If you haven't. I'm sure many of us have dealt with him and can make an introduction to help you out, but he and his team has been great at bringing companies to the city, which he had alluded to. So. All right. Commission. Commissioner Bronsky. Well, I'm sorry, but I move that we follow the recommendation of the staff and that we deny this case. Commissioner alley, second, Commissioner Bender, did you wish to make a comment before the vote? Okay. All right. A yes vote will be to deny the request. So we have a motion and a second to deny the request. So, as we said, a yes vote would be to deny the request. If I voted. Motion passes 7 to 0 to deny the requested zoning change. All right. Non public hearing items. Items for individual consideration. Non public hearing items. Oh let me let me stop you one second Commission five minute break. Before we get into our fairly lengthy presentations here I presume. All right. Let's take five minutes and we'll reconvene at. What is it that's eight about 805. Six. Oh five. Oh. Thank you. Okay. Item four. Items for individual consideration. Non public hearing items. The presiding officer will permit limited public comment for items on the agenda not posted for a public hearing. The presiding officer will establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests, length of the agenda and to ensure meeting efficiency, and may include a total time limit. Agenda item number four discussion and action requests to call a public hearing to amend and expand urban mixed use one on 156.3 acres located at the southeast corner of Plano Parkway and Custer Road. The applicant is Jackson Walker LLP. This item is for legislative consideration. Good evening. On February 3rd, 2025, the Planning and Zoning Commission called a public hearing to amend the Urban mixed use one district to make modifications to the western portion of the district. Since that time, the applicant has come back requesting to add some additional work into the scope, including to expand the Umu district to include a portion of the Li one zoning district. They are in the middle. So the call for public hearing is necessary for the purpose of transparency for the public and affected property owners. Staff recommends that the Planning and Zoning and Zoning Commission call a public hearing for this purpose. Happy to answer any questions. All right. Questions for staff. Mr. Bruno. Let me just looking at your map, it looks like the little area in the cut out area in the middle labeled Li one is excluded from this, from this case. Is that correct? Yes. With the zoning case that will be coming forward, they will be requesting to amend and expand the Umu district to include a portion of the Li one zoning. Okay. And then then there's the eastern portion, which is to the east of the Li one district. Is that new? That will be included in the zoning case. Although I don't believe there will be any changes to the eastern portion of the district. Okay. So the Li one district is going to be filled in. In other words, is a portion of it. Yes, a portion of it. Okay. All right. Thank you. Commission other questions for staff. Commissioner Ali. I, I don't know, I assume that all of the Li one was going to be filled in. There's. Why just the portion? There's an existing building that's zoned Li one that you can see. The area to the east that's undeveloped will be incorporated into the umu district. The existing building will remain Li one. Okay. Thank you. All right. Any other questions of staff? Nobody. I believe if I searched the crowd that the applicant might be out there somewhere, and it's been waiting for two hours. If you feel if you feel like you need to pay off your wait and speak, we'd certainly be happy to hear from you. But no need. Okay. All right. Commission. Commissioner Bronsky. I guess we'll get Bill out of here and let him run in the hail. I move that we follow the recommendation of the staff and call a public hearing for agenda item number four. As staff has defined it, Commissioner Brounoff. I second the motion. About running in the hail or about the. I'll leave the running and the hail up to the applicant. All right, Commissioner, we have a motion and a second. Please vote. Motion passes 7 to 0. You're welcome to hang out with us as long as you like. And item number five. Agenda. Item number five. Discussion. Receive a presentation on the 2025 Planning Department Annual report. The applicant is the City of Plano. This item is for information only. Good evening. My name is Nick Coleman, lead planner with the City of Plano. And I'll be presenting the 2025 Planning Department Annual report. It will include a brief department overview and then planning department activities from 2024 covering zoning and development comprehensive planning and school demographic and housing data. So here's our current organizational chart. It's color coded to show the four divisions within the department. The first division and the one with which you'll be most familiar is Development Review, which handles zoning and site plans. Plats. Any type of plan related to land use and or land development. Comprehensive planning, which is broken out into two work groups Heritage and Information, which administers the Heritage Preservation Program and then also conducts demographic, demographic and development analysis. And then Long Range Planning, which maintains the comprehensive plan and conducts small area plans and other special studies, as well as mobility planning, land records planning, which is also split into two groups. Land records maintains the city's GIS data, which is used by multiple departments and development services, maintains the city's zoning ordinance, and also handles researching of sort of emerging topics and planning, and also review certificates of occupancy and works with property standards. Business services is sort of the connective tissue that connects all of the other divisions, sort of transmits information between them. It's also the public face of the department handling customer service. You know, handling thousands of walk ins and telephone calls. They also handling budgeting and training and technology for the department. Planning supports three boards and commissions planning and zoning, of course, but also Heritage Commission, which reviews heritage related activities and our heritage sites and districts and Board of Adjustments, which we support primarily for zoning variances. So for zoning and development, to start with, we'll look at submittals. Last year we had 688 projects submittals. A slight decrease from last year. But if you look over the past few years it's relatively consistent. Around 700 plans or projects submittals every year. Our report has a zoning petition location map, so you can see the location and type of every zoning case that we handled over the course of the last year. And you can see the total acres rezone was 550. The average time to decision was 113 days. Over the past few days there has been not days, years. There's been kind of an increase in the average time to decision. There's been an increase primarily as a result of kind of the complexity of certain cases that take longer to work through the development process. A big challenge to development is the decrease in green field ready sites in the in the city, as our undeveloped land decreases. As of January 1st of this year, we have 1 or 1863 acres of undeveloped land left, which is only 4% of the total land area in the city. That undeveloped land is zoned less than 11% residential. It's 12% agricultural, and over 77% of it is zoned for non residential uses. And looking at the zoning of undeveloped land, one thing we added to the report last year is a zoning analysis. In the report we have a data table that that accompanies this map where you can see the acreage of undeveloped land within each sort of base zoning district and then also within each zoning district, how much undeveloped land was developed within the past year, how much land was zoned? How many plans were approved? This is our major project map for the 2025 report. It shows the location of all major projects. Mostly these are mixed use developments and the report has information on the status of each of these projects. For the zoning ordinance. Turning away from development last year, the Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance Rewrite project kicked off. It was a multi year project that will extend through 2026. It will be a full rewrite of the zoning and subdivision codes, intended to make them more streamlined and efficient. Last year, short term rental regulations were incorporated into the zoning ordinance, which included a registration program. Drone delivery was incorporated into the ordinance, and a parking relief was also incorporated. Turning to comprehensive planning. Since the approval of the Comp plan in 2021, we've had an annual plan maintenance process in the 2024 cycle. We updated actions related to the economic environment and regionalism, pillars of the plan, and some map updates which you'll hear more about in the next presentation. Specifically related to the Environmental Health Expressway Corridor map. For long range and mobility planning. A large accomplishment over the past year that kind of bled into 2025 was the Silver Line station area plan for the Silver Line stations that are going in at 12th Street and Shiloh Road. We're moving into the implementation phase for that. That plan in 2025 and the Community Design Plan, which is an ongoing project leading into this year as well. For heritage preservation, last year, in June, the 2024 update to the Heritage Preservation Plan was approved. It included a Heritage resource survey of properties and neighborhoods built between 1970 and 1975, which are crossing that sort of 50 year threshold at which they're considered historic and offered sort of preservation sort of advice for those locations. These are heritage preservation grant recipients. There had been for several years, only three of them, but we added the Plano African American Museum and Masonic Lodge in recent years. Last year, there were over 70,000 visitors to our heritage grant recipients. The Heritage Tax Exemption Program, which helps historic homeowners and business owners sort of offset the cost of owning historic buildings. Aided 86 property owners last year. So, looking at demographics. One thing that we report on every year is school data. And so the big trend that's been ongoing in Plano is the decrease in the school age population, particularly the under ten population and the most salient result for schools is the decrease, like a widening gap between seniors graduating out of high school in Plano ISD and kindergartners entering, as you can see in the graph on the lower right. Another thing we report, which we share with school districts at our annual education meeting, which we had, I think a week and a half ago, is housing permitting activity within school districts, which we provide to try to give them a sense of how many, how many housing units are going in and their thereby, how many children they can expect will be generated in those housing units. Looking at housing units more generally, last year we had just shy of 1400 units that had building permits issued. We track housing permits over time, as you can see in the graph on the bottom of the slide. And we have over 11,000 housing permits pending. And for the location of where those pending housing units are, we have an active residential areas map in the report. And we have a two page spread with a tables that have housing units and status, sort of how many are approved and how many are remaining. And so as we track units, we're able to say at any given time how many we have in the city as of January 1st, we have or had 121,480 housing units, and the balance between single family and multifamily was 62% single family, 38% multi-family. With the 11,188 pending units and more units that we expect over the next 20 years, we expect the percentage will kind of shift slightly to 60% single family, 40% multifamily. And in tracking the permit data as we do, we're able to also use it to make population estimates and projections. You know, incorporating demographic data from the American Community Survey and our January 1st population estimate for Plano is 298,430 residents. And using the pending units from the table. Barring other demographic trends that are, you know, sort of beyond reckoning. We anticipate that over the next ten, 15 years, we will increase our population from those housing units to 316,200 approximately. That concludes my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Commissioners questions for Mr. Coleman. Mr. Brounoff. Questions. In addition to all the things that you just listed, you, you also had to get the projects to rewrite the zoning ordinance and the subdivision ordinance underway. You had to move the planning and Zoning commission meetings from the council chamber over to the Davis Library in April, and then back again in November, because this space had to be renovated. We had to review a possible updates to two pillars of the comprehensive plan. We had to look at the Silver Line station area, plans for two Silver Line stations. And you had to get all of that accomplished despite serious staff shortages last year, which were the result of, you know, departures of staff and combined with a hiring freeze. So I salute the staff for accomplishing as much as you did last year, and I appreciate your efforts, and I'm sure you're relieved and we're all relieved that you're able to fill the ranks again now and operate with a with with a full crew. So anyway, congratulations and thank you for all your hard work. Thank you sir. I make this joke every year that you guys need to come teach my analyst how to put together a pitch deck. Your deck work is exquisite. I'm sure you all are. I'm concerned, obviously, by the lack of a pipeline for school age kids. Coming into Plano. It feels like that is accelerating the maturity of the city and possibly the decline of the city. Are there any initiatives that you either have on your roadmap? And I don't know what they would be that could possibly be targeted towards solving that gap that you're showing from our young families moving into the city. Is there anything we need to be looking at as a commission? Looking at as a commission? That we can expect to see in the next couple of months that you can think of, that would be specifically to address, again, marketing. We do a good job of marketing Plano as a business friendly climate. I don't know if we're doing a good enough job of positioning and marketing Plano as a family, child friendly climate, so it's a little bit of a comment question, and I don't know where you go from there, but. I think it's a it's a big problem to try to solve. You know, there's sort of larger, large demographic trends to contend with. You know, aging in place is a significant issue. I think we're all aware of. And it's difficult to know what sort of panacea to offer for something like that. You know, housing affordability is an issue. And it has been for some time. With those barriers to entry for young families. It's hard to know what what options, you know, to offer to counteract it. Assistant director about just to your point, specifically about the marketing piece, when we met with Plano ISD a week and a half ago at the annual education meeting, they mentioned a marketing program specifically intended to market itself as a great place to raise a family and get an education. So I think they are considering that marketing piece right now. Okay. That's that's good to hear. That was the primary reason why we moved to Plano. And it kind of pains my heart that that's not more widely screamed from the rooftop. One question I had on the future of housing type dependent units for single family detached. Am I reading that correctly? To say we expect to build or have permitted an extra 229 single family houses? And if so, where are we putting those? Yes, sir. 229 the traditional single family detached. So would that be an infill redevelopment, kind of taken into consideration? So we have enough undeveloped land for that. On page 32. They are relatively small. Developments. It's a it's an active residential area. Summary. It's a it's numbers one through ten. I think the largest project has 107 units. That's heritage estates and it's almost built out. Most are 30, 30, 40, 50 units at a time. There are also a large number of those units in the Collin Creek development, which is underway right now. Gotcha. Well, Collin Creek development, that's actually in the mixed use single family type. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Bronsky. So I want to start out by saying this is terrific. You guys do a great job at this every year. And I sincerely appreciate from a residents viewpoint as well as a commissioner's viewpoint, the effort that you go into every year to make sure that we understand what's going on and what's coming forward. I really value that, and I appreciate that a lot. I've got a couple questions about some of the information. So on page 12 where it talks about the submittal project submittals, I noticed you mentioned that this year it was 688. And in a pre-COVID environment, we our numbers were all except for 2015. Well north of seven 800. So do we do we expect in a post-Covid environment for these numbers to continue to see a decline in project submittals long term, or do you have any way to estimate what your expectations are for those? I think they've been consistent over the past few years, so that might just be kind of a new normal long term. It I can't say. I think we saw a boom in the market in the later part of the 20 tens that led to that spike. Since that time, it's been pretty consistent in level. And I don't see we don't see that slowing at any specific point right now. Now, significant market shifts could obviously affect that. But as of this moment it seems to be pretty steady. And when we talk about significant market shifts, that's the next point I was going to ask about. And that is when we talked about that population going from 298 to about 310. And we look at the demographics that you provide from the school district, which you can see very clearly that. Plano is accelerating faster than the county, the state or the United States as a whole in the lack of young people moving into Plano. Young kindergartners, I guess under ten, that that number that's going to be that addition in population. I guess we're anticipating that number to continue to be non-school, age children, largely, yes. The increase is based solely on the increase in housing like we're we're largely at a point where our population growth is based really on an increase in housing units instead of natural migration. And generally we see a smaller increase in population, especially for young people in multi-family as opposed to single family. Is that correct? In the child population, in multi-family. I don't actually know. I think the persons per household in multi-family is higher than. Well, certain kinds of multi-family are higher and have stayed consistent. There's been a slight decrease in the persons per household in, say, a traditional single family detached. But as far as the child population within those housing types, I, I don't know the answer to that. Okay. And. What what do we. I appreciate Commissioner. Holly's wondering. And I know just a couple of years ago, Plano was actually recognized nationally as one of the best places to raise a family. And I'd love to have us be promoting that more. But I, I have concern about what the aging in place is going to be, a long term impact on the citizenry, as well as if we continue to see an acceleration of the graying in place or the reductions in school age children. The long term impact that's going to actually have on what we're able to provide as a city and be a destination location for families to move to. Do we think that because that number is continuing to decline at an accelerated pace, that it's going to basically produce even more of an acceleration? I think the trend is anticipated to continue at a, at a, at a, at an accelerated pace. It's hard to say how fast it will increase. You know, at a at a statewide level it's predicted to increase. But it's a difficult to know how long exactly it will last. I guess my real question is, as we look to the future, what is going to be the true impact to the city of that continued acceleration, of the decrease in the number of children and the increased need that older populations are going to? Provide, I guess is the best word I can use for it. What's what's that going to do? What's that going to cause and produce? Well, there there are a few sort of downstream things. You know, there are tax exemptions for over 65. So there's a reduction in, you know, tax revenue. You know property tax revenue. You know, there's a change in the service needs of the population with an aging population. Generally the aging population needs more services, needs more services. And I mean, you know, it could include things like recreation programing things like that. It's not necessarily services. You know, emergency services, things like that. Although it is. Yep. Mr. Bell, were you about to. Oh, I don't know all of the impacts that will sort of ripple out from that. But I think those are the ones that spring to mind. Yeah. So you know, I share that concern. And last lastly, when I look at a lot of the multifamily that we're bringing in and that we've got approved, and I consider a lot of those are one and two bedroom units largely. I think it's going to produce less possibility for those families to be. I would I would say we have numbers on students generated per unit and as a per unit basis, the mixed use multifamily and single family produce less, but on a per acre basis, they're actually pretty comparable because we have just more density in a smaller area. So those numbers are actually in the report. They're on the page in front of me. But if you go to the school district information, there is an estimation of students per unit and students per acre for each type of housing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's page number 26. Okay. Yeah, I, I wish we had some answers as far as what we need to do or what we should be looking at to curb th, the progression that we're seeing in it. But I guess I'll just finish by saying, I appreciate that you guys are illuminating this to us, and I hope that. Whomever is looking at these numbers are finding ways that maybe we can augment or make some changes to maybe adjust for the acceleration and maybe find ways to correct that. But I appreciate the planning department bringing this forward and continuing to present it to us so that it's front of mind for our council, as well as for our commission in understanding what we're approving. So thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bruno. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the one hand, we're talking about a graying population decline in projected school enrollment. Okay. If that's all there were, then you would expect, I think, the population to decrease over time as people get older. And perhaps there are more deaths than than people coming into the city. And yet you're also forecasting a population increase from 298,000 to 316,000. Okay. So I'm wondering what demographic groups would make up the projected population increase. In terms of age, in terms of income level, in terms of occupation of blue collar, white collar. What families, single people. Retirees. What? This is just sort of speculation. I think a lot of the housing units that we have projected, if you look at the numbers, a lot of mid-rise multifamily, a lot of a lot of units that are coming in in sort of mixed use scenarios. I would anticipate that it would be a lot of young professionals. You know, sort of 20s, 30s. That that age cohort. But, you know, we have I don't know, the number right off the top of my head. 1693 independent living units that are also projected. So there will also be the potential that there's housing available for people who maybe want to move out of their home to, you know, an independent living situation. I think the asking about units, I'm asking about people where are where is the population increase going to come from? The increase is coming from the pending number of units that have been approved and not yet built. So it's based only upon units. It's our calculations are variables are the number of pending units, the number of persons per household which varies and is different by each type of housing type. And then occupancy or vacancy rates. Which also fluctuates. So those are the three main drivers of our population estimates which are there are others in-migration and outmigration. But those are the three main factors. And we compare those with the estimates of the Council of Governments as well as the Census Bureau, to compare notes. So that assumes that all or most of the projected units are going to be filled. It's assuming the current occupancy rates of each individual housing type, which we derive from the census data. Okay. And we verified. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, you're not planning for x number of units of various types to match a projected population increase. It's the reverse. You're you're calculating population increase based upon approved units. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. There is a little more sophisticated science with births and deaths and immigration outmigration. But I think on a small basis, like a city level, the housing units is the primary driver in the population estimate. Mr. Bender. Thank you. Chairman. Just a comment. You know, as we look over a period of time, right, there are economic changes that occur. And I know in talking to some of the school districts, you know, the aging in place that that we know is occurring. There's pent up demand currently for people that want to move. In some cases, move to different types of housing types. Right. So that's I think, important that we continue to offer those options for people to downsize, move into some of those different housing types. I think also interest rates, right. We know are playing a big piece of that that people are in a, you know, 2.9% mortgage. And I think as interest rates move, I think we'll see some turnover in some of those houses. I also think more on a regional basis. I'm anticipating that as growth to the north continues to occur in the northern areas of Collin County, we will see an increase in property values, will continue to see an increase in property values. But I also think that because of the transportation issues that we have, people are going to be focusing on living closer live, work and play. So I think there'll be some transition that will occur with some of those population changes and so forth. So back to Commissioner Holly's question about the bubble, the demographic bubble. My understanding from Pisd is they, you know, anticipate that the enrollment will continue to decline for a while, but there is a projection that it will again start to rise based on some of the demographer information that they're getting. So I think there's a lot of different factors that play into that. As I think you're alluding to, and we also don't know in the future. Right. Some of the economic trends that may occur that may help or hurt some of those things. Yes. When we met with Pisd, I think on the 14th, they anticipated it would fall to kind of a like a bottoming out point. I want to say within the next 5 or 6 years. And then sort of point the other direction. Right. And as far as marketing, I know they have talked about sort of opening the district and, you know, they've done that and there's been, you know, people coming from, you know, neighboring cities to attend pisd schools. And you know, that the number of neighboring communities has, has increased over time since that. Since that change. Yeah. Pisd covers 100mi■!S, ten cities, 33% of Richardson residents send their children to Plano ISD. Interesting number. So, you know, there are changes that can occur in Richardson that impact the Plano ISD schools, right? So Dallas, you know, a lot of different cities that Plano ISD feeds. So it's not just the city of Plano that feeds Plano ISD. Yes. Yes, sir. Just a point. Commissioner Riley. And one additional comment. Not not a question. And in, in in some ways, I'm answering my earlier question. I think that's one of the partly the genius of how the comp plan was crafted that we're. I know Mike does for you. Alley oop. That we are always keeping that Plano 2050 in mind that Plano as a mature city in mind that so that we are putting things in place now with Silver Line and transit oriented development and, you know, mixed use and art districts and that intentionality so that we are preparing a package holistically that can attract the Tulsa mike of ten years from now to look at Plano first as a destination city, to raise a family, to have a job, to have good restaurants, to have good services, and on and on and on. So it's again, more of a comment. I'm happy to hear what Pisd is doing, because I've always felt that that was a bit of a missing part in the marketing package, so to speak. So if we are focused on that in partnership with them, that gladdens my heart. All right. All good comments. I'll close with one thing I say every year. With this, I'm always astounded at the volume of things that we all handle on a day in, day out basis that, you know, we saw, according to your records, 37 zoning cases feels like a lot more than that. But I know we have site plans and plats and all those things, but but on the flip side, I see numbers with thousands and in one case, hundreds of thousands of things that we're doing for our taxpayers and our residents and our businesses and our citizens with SEO applications and record keeping and, you know, everything under the sun, 688 different things that y'all did. And so I want the staff to know, at least from my perspective, that doesn't go unnoticed. I know we don't see what you do 40 hours a week or more. But the numbers show what you're doing for our community, and I want to make sure that you all understand how much we appreciate the hard work that you do. And it's always a little bit staggering to me to see those numbers, because it just reminds me, we see you twice a month, but there's a lot that y'all are doing behind the scenes. But when we're not seeing you and I know our community appreciates it. So thank you. Thank you sir. All right. No other questions for staff. Thank you very much. Appreciate your presentation. All right. Item number six. Agenda. Item number six. Discussion. Receive a presentation on the fiscal year 2023 to 2024. City of Plano Comprehensive Plan annual report. The applicant is the City of Plano. This item is for information only. Good evening. Commissioners. Audrey Young I am a senior planner and I'm from the long range Department or division. I'm here to present for you today the and the and comprehensive Plan annual report. So with that being said, I just kind of want to do a little bit of an introduction about the comprehensive plan is, as you all know, we do have five pillars in the comprehensive plan. And I'm going to be talking a little bit today about what those updates are to the comprehensive plan and then how we are implementing it throughout the city and working with all the different departments to do that. It is a long range plan that's guiding the future growth priorities, services and development and redevelopment within our city. And the general framework is that it focuses on fulfilling the community vision of a global leader excelling in exceptional education, abounding with world class businesses and a vibrant neighborhoods. The comprehensive plan includes five pillars, 11 components, 42 policies, and 280 action items. The Annual Report for the Comprehensive Plan provides a summary of the progress made by the City of Plano in implementing the plan's policies and actions. It's going to cover basically everything from the last fiscal year. So you're going to go back into October through this last October, and we use this as a tool to communicate the steps taken to our plan implementation and to ensure accountability in achieving the plan's objectives. It's structured into sections to highlight all the different areas in which we use to implement the comprehensive plan. So from a background perspective, I'm not going to spend too much time because you guys have heard this before. However, I do want to just highlight that our first comprehensive plan was adopted in 1963, and we're currently using the 2021 Comprehensive Plan. As I mentioned, it does have five different pillars the built environment, social environment natural environment economic environment, and regionalism. And the reason that this matters is because this last year, every two years, we like to review all of the action items and all of the policies within the Comprehensive Plan. And last year we evaluated the economic environment pillar and the regionalism pillar and made some other updates that I'm going to go through in just a moment here. As you can see here, we have new we have updated action items, we have new action items. And you can go into a little bit more detail. But this gives you an overarching understanding of some of the different actions that we've updated. The other approved action items are the result of the incorporation of the actions from the now retired 2003 Plano at Maturity report. That's going to kind of speak to some of the things in your last questions, I think, that you had for Nick and the amendments, removed the map and guidelines and did move that over into the expressway corridor overlay district in the zoning ordinance. So that's one of the big changes that we made this year. So just to kind of keep that in mind, you can see some of the other action items that we've updated here and removed and so forth. The Comprehensive Plan annual report talking a little bit about implementation. We implement it in three different ways. We have the service delivery which involves the prioritization and execution of the comprehensive. Comprehensive plans, 280 different action items. The CIP and operating budget serves as a financial planning tool, crucial for aligning the city resources with the Comprehensive plan and the land use and development Service delivery Area relies on the Comprehensive Plan as a primary policy framework for evaluating zoning requests and associated infrastructure needs. The Comprehensive Plan Annual Report is a compilation of contributions from a lot of different departments. You can see here the Action leadership by department. Obviously, planning does a lot, but there are a lot of other departments that are implementing our comprehensive plan in a lot of different ways. So we like to highlight that here. We actually go through and work with each of the departments to figure out how they're implementing each year. And we go through every single, all 280 action items. And what you'll see is the progress here is we have 76% in progress or reoccurring or on track, 4% are complete. And 20% are pending. Talking a little bit more about service delivery, we'd like to highlight some of the other departments that are implementing some of these action items like community Building action. CB1 Neighborhood Services has done a great job increasing their volunteer rate by 43%. Talking a little bit about Public works, Public Works has implemented renewable Energy Action eight. And by purchasing an electric trash truck, they're using that for a lot of monitoring and reporting and taking a lot of data from that. So. Public works actually cover replaced more almost 900,000ft■!S of sidewalk and almost 1400 barrier free ramps to improve pedestrian activity, economic development worked hard to support 61 companies to identify challenges, and engaged over 300 and engage 330 companies in efforts to retain employers. The Comprehensive Plan Annual Report, CIP and Operating budget process. The we had the Fire Station remodel as well as the Tom Muehlenbeck Recreation Center. These are just a couple of them that we have. The most recent CIP includes 420 projects that align with one or more of the priorities listed in the policy, and some of these are highlighted here. The Comprehensive Plan annual report. Land use Development section is kind of where we come into play in a significant way with development review as well as our long range team. And here's just a summary of all the zoning applications that we had. The chart represents four main types of zoning cases and their statuses. As of the end of the 2324 fiscal year. We want to introduce a little bit about the findings. The report on the findings, requests that do not conform with critical criteria. The Comprehensive Plan require findings. Findings are determined by the conformity of the project with the applicable future land use categories. Regarding mix of uses, building height, density and ratio. Mixed mixed residential to nonresidential square footage in a mixed use development, findings were required for 13% of all the zoning cases that came through last year, and all four of those were approved. Some of the more long range land use and development highlights are. We did approve the Silver Line station areas plan, and we also approved the Heritage Preservation Plan. Upcoming projects include the Community Design plan, cultural Arts plan, annual market study, zoning and subdivision ordinance, and the facilities Plan master Plan update. And we have published this annual report on the website. You are welcome to take a look at it and it's available for review. All the action items and all the implementation of each of those action items is also posted on the dashboard. If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them. Okay, thank you very much. As usual, lots of information there to digest. Appreciate your thoroughness. I have one question on the findings graph. You put it up on your screen. But there was there was actually more information in your actual report. There's a table above that table that I found even more interesting. And so I'm not sure if this question is for you or Mr. Bell, but but I noticed that there of the pre-application meetings held, 12 of them would have needed findings, yet only four of them came forward, as opposed to 21 of them that did not need findings. And all 21 came forward. So the only conclusion I can draw is that developers come in and realize that they're going to put us in a spot where we've got to find a way to not conform with the master plan if they want to get approved. And apparently, eight out of the 12 people realized that that wasn't going to work for them, so they didn't come back. Is that a fair summary of what I'm reading in that table? We definitely try to be upfront and honest about the circumstances of the comprehensive plan and whether or not it's consistent or not, and we're just very forward with them. We do our analysis before each one of those meetings to make sure that, you know, we do the mixed use analysis, we analyze the entire project, just as we would for a zoning case. And that allows us to be able to tell them during that meeting, we will be able to support it or we will not. Based off of the information you provided at this meeting. Now, some of them do go back. They make changes and they come back and submit with an altered project, things like that. But we definitely try to help them out upfront and usually they're pretty receptive of that. And they appreciate having those hard conversations a little earlier. So. Well, I think, but but to me, it seems to me the message is working. We have a master plan. Our intent is to honor the master plan. And if you ask us to not honor the master plan, there's a hurdle you've got to jump. And apparently two thirds of them don't want to try to jump that hurdle. So I appreciate your your being honest with them when they come in, because I think that makes better projects that are more consistent with the master plan. And, and by the time they get to us. So thank you for that. So yeah, Commissioner Bronsky, one of my favorite things we do every year continue to push forward toward the goal of Plano 2050. So I really appreciate you highlighting one of the things I was going to actually point out that you guys are being very transparent about what our city really wants and what are the expectations we have for different developments in the city. And when I think about only a third considering coming forward to try to leap that hurdle, that tells me that we are looking toward the purpose of the findings form, and that is that it's something beyond just your average thing, but it's something that is going to bring exceptional value to the citizens both today and the citizens in the future. So I really appreciate you guys making that a priority and being very upfront about how it's handled. So I I've got a weird question, and I don't know if you're going to be able to answer it the way I'm thinking it in my head. So when we think about the percentage of progression of the implementation of the plan this last year, how does that compare to previous years of the percentage of implementation moved forward and the impacts that the reduced staff, the staffing shortages and all of those things? Have we seen a decrease in the percentage of progression from year over year because of the things that have happened in the department this last year? We definitely track it. I would have to go back and actually pull the percentages. However, just based off of that, I do a lot of that review. We did get a few where people said, you know, we just didn't have enough to get, you know, we're a little short staffed to get this. However, for the most part, most of the projects they there were still projects coming up. They're still demonstrating ways that they're implementing. I mean, that was only in a couple of cases in all 280. So it was pretty impressive to see that the people are still they're still moving the, you know, all the departments are still moving the departments. Everybody's stepping up to make sure that even with the shortages, we're still meeting the bars that. Yes, you're intending to meet. Yeah. Okay. Definitely. So my next question is, as we look forward for the next couple of years, and we think about some of the things that the rewrite committee is probably going to be bringing about, what would you say we would see? And I'm again, I'm asking you to speculate the impacts of things like alternative compliance on the comprehensive plan globally. Maybe rephrase your question so your your internal compliance or just compliance with the comprehensive plan, alternative compliance for things that are coming from the outside and making adjustments for development purposes, and how that would impact the overall health of the comprehensive plan. Yeah. Well, we take the annual review very seriously. It's a very in-depth review and it's reviewed every two years. So we definitely are updating the comprehensive plan as needed. And you can see that a lot of the updates as far as compliance with it, I mean, we were pretty maybe I'm not understanding. Yeah, I guess my question wasn't completely clear. That's okay. My other question is how do you feel we're doing as it relates to meeting the goals of Plano 2050? In preparing? And I guess I'm not going to you know what? Don't worry about it. Thank you. Just stand there. You're welcome. I'm lost in my head about how I want to phrase what I was going to say. If you understood the question a little better, Mike, feel free. I'm just not sure if I quite. I think the question was ultimate compliance in terms of site planning and zoning requirements. Is that what you're referring to? Okay. And the impact of that is going to have as it relates to modifying the comprehensive, I think the I think you need to set up a system where the alternatives are all aligned with the comp plan in one way or another. So if you're going to ask for alternatives to parking or to site design or whatever it may be, that if open space is a priority of the comp plan, then open space is one of the options you can do for alternative compliance. Okay. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of where I was heading I apologize. That's that's okay. I'm done. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner. Commissioner. Olli. More of an ask. You have a operating budget breakdown on page 12, which suggests that we have put in more of our funding towards new improvement additions or policy and study, which I will consider investment versus business as usual stuff. Do you have the data that slices it a little bit? One more level that shows where those new improvements or additions, where do they land in terms of parks and rec, engineering and public works facilities? You know, just one more level of slice. If you can send that somebody. So we do have it from a from a CIP perspective. But if you're looking for it from a we're in this report, we're just looking at it from a which CIP projects are supporting the comprehensive plan. So that's about as far as we get with with them supporting the comprehensive plan. We can obviously find that from a CIP perspective. We look at that every year and that goes a lot more in depth. Yeah. From the CIP perspective. Yeah. Yeah we definitely have that okay. Thank you. That it okay. Commissioner Brounoff thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that. The things that help make the comprehensive plan a document that can remain viable over the long term are, first of all, the provision for making exceptions to the normal requirements of the plan. Upon making required findings in those cases where the underlying values and purpose of the plan would be better served by going outside the normal parameters, you know, outside the box, so to speak, on the comprehensive plan. The other is the annual review process. Last year we reviewed two pillars. This year we have the built environment pillar to look at. I'm wondering if it would not be prudent to wait for some sort of product or report from the rewrite committee as a basis for the review of the built environment pillar. Okay. What do you think? Well, we can take that into consideration. We're definitely working hand in hand with the rewrite team. We're all working together on both on reviewing the comprehensive plan as well as the community design plan, all of its we all meet pretty regularly together, so I think it will obviously be considered as far as timing goes on, when the annual or when the comprehensive plan updates will be approved. I'm not 100% sure. I think the built environment is much more than just the future land use map and the land use policies. It's going to have a lot to do with transportation and housing, and there's a lot of actions in those that are not specifically tied to the zoning. So I think, you know, the idea is good. How does this interact with the zoning update and where can we align them. So we can certainly consider that. I think there's just a it'd be better to get into the work and see if there's opportunities to. I think what you'll see is a large section of that is not necessarily tied to zoning. It's other types of built environment policies. No, I just hate to see, you know, have us spend time reviewing the built environment pillar and then have the rewrite committee come in behind us and present us with something that sort of makes what, what we the work we just did irrelevant in some respects. So I'm thinking maybe we should have that in hand before we start reviewing the pillar. Yeah, I understand the concern. I think we can discuss ways to prevent that from happening. Okay. Thank you. And I'll add the built environment pillar is slated to be reviewed every two years. It's the one that gets reviewed the most. So we'll have an opportunity fairly soon after the implementation of the zoning rewrite. Great. Thank you. Commissioners. Other questions of staff. Nobody. Thank you very much. Very comprehensive. Comprehensive plan update. As usual, we appreciate all your hard work and. And Mr. Bell, we've had some new faces in the audience tonight that I think we ought to introduce. They've been very observant and attentive and quiet. Yes. So as you mentioned a few times in this meeting, we have had the hiring freeze lifted. And so we have begun filling some of those positions. And then promotions lead to other domino effect with that. But I do want to introduce a few of the new staff. So if you would raise your hand when I call your name with the long range team we now have Nasir Jaiswal, the long range planning team, and she joins us from the city of McKinney, second, with the development review team, we now have Caroline Stewart and she joins us from Brentwood, Tennessee. And then a couple not new faces but new positions. I want to congratulate Nick Coleman on his recent promotion to supervisor of the long Range planning team. If you would raise your hand, Nick. Thank you. Congratulations. And then some somewhat sad news, but we're happy for her. This will actually be Audrey Young's last meeting with us. She will be staying with City of Plano, staying with the team but leaving planning and heading over to environmental health and sustainability. So we wish you luck in your new position, Miss Young. Well, congratulations to those with new positions and welcome to the team. For those that are that are new, we look forward to working with you all and seeing you around and hopefully not this late in the evening every time. So anything else, Mr. Bell? Tonight? All right. We stand adjourned at 9:11 p.m. The brand new. It's brand new. After two decades as a crossing guard, Michelle knows the tricks of the trade. Like using an electric whistle. That's actually really loud. Blow it loud and watch your teeth. I I've cracked a tooth before. Now. Being a crossing guard is more nerve racking than I'd expected. You try walking out in traffic and tell me you're not scared. Okay. Now what? Just kind of make yourself as big as you can. There you go. Michelle says the hardest part is trying to get people to stop when there's no break in traffic. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. A little misconception I had coming in was that crossing guards were directing traffic. That's n