Okay, the eye in the sky is lit. It's six o'clock. I'd like to call to order the September 2 regular meeting of the Mound Planning Commission. Roll call, please. >> Planning Commission Member Mcani, >> I. >> Planning Commission Member Sherry Wallace, >> I. >> Planning Commission Member Nick Rosner, >> here. Planning Commission Member Samantha Wer here. >> Planning Commission Member Kristen Young >> here. >> Planning Commission Vice Chair Jason Baker >> here. >> Planning Commission Chair David Good >> present. Okay. Uh you received through email the agenda for tonight's meeting. We do have an amendment which is this document in front of you. So the chair would entertain a motion to approve the agenda as distributed including the amendment. Uh motion to approve the agenda as distributed including the amendment from the property owners for 5A. >> Second. >> We have a motion and second discussion hearing. None. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Those opposed, nay. >> Motion carries. We have the August 19, 2025 minutes of the specialrescheduled meeting. Those were distributed to you also by email. I assume you've had an opportunity to review them. Does anyone have any uh changes uh additions, deletions to those minutes? Hearing none, the chair would entertain a motion to approve the August 19, 2025 specialreschedule meeting minutes. Motion to approve the minutes as distributed. >> Second. >> Motion and second. Discussion hearing. None. Those in favor signify by saying I. >> Those opposed. Nay. Motion carries. Board of adjustment and appeals. First review slrecommendation planning case 259 varants second driveway apron 1705 Baywood Shore Drive. Applicants Rodney and Kathleen Thur. Miss Sarah. >> Good evening, members of the planning commission, applicants and guests. I'm Sarah Smith and I will be providing an overview of the first variance that we have on tonight's uh planning commission meeting agenda for review and recommendation. Uh the planning case is number 259 and it's for the property located at 1705 Baywood Shores Drive and was submitted by the property owners Rodney and Kathleen the using. The application for variance is requesting uh an approval from mound city code section 129 198B which states that the number and type of accesses onto major street shall be limited to a single access unless approved by the city engineer. Uh the property owners are requesting a second access which would be located near the intersection of Baywood Shores and Three Points Boulevard uh located north of their existing driveway and home. Uh the application was received on the 31st of July and we are under uh the 60-day timeline for review. Uh as mentioned in the planning report, day one is deemed to be August 1st and so the city has 60 days within that time frame to act on the variance. Uh we do have the ability within statute to extend that period for an additional 60 60 days to include provisions that are included in the statute related for the amount of time and why we need the extension. Uh the variance criteria are located in city code section 1294. And so the application that we're looking at this evening um the applicant is indicating uh that they believe they have practical difficulty due to their unique circumstances on their property. Um just a little bit of background. Um the property is zoned R1. So that means it's a single family designation only. The house was constructed by previous owners and the property owners purchased the property a handful of years ago. Uh the house is a single family with attached garage space. Um and I'm sorry if this went to sleep. Um as noted on the overhead, pardon me, I went to sleep again. Pardon me everyone. I don't know why it's doing that. Um Sarah, would you mind maybe coming up and trying getting this going while I continue? Um and I'm sorry about that for something that's not re not reading between the the laptop and the overhead. Um the property that's depicted on the aerial that soon will get put up um shows a construction uh sometime in the past by uh that includes some somewhat what I'd call a parking area or somewhat of a drive. Um and the property owners are using that area for parking. Um most recently uh they did reach out to the public works department and were requesting uh approval to construct a second apron and at that time the second apron was not thank you was not authorized on the basis that the city code allows one access only. Um and uh as an alternative to that decision, uh the property owners have submitted a variance uh requesting approval based on their their circumstances on the property to allow a second access. Um just a little bit of background about information that we received. Um the applicant uh supplied a hardcover calculation sheet indicating that the property was under um I don't know if everything's on there. I did some quick just some quick math because as depicted on the aerial um I don't think that this this area um wild gravel andor class 5 typically the rule is if it's being parked on we count it towards park towards parking. Um again not knowing uh in the sense of a normal driveway. So I I'll leave it there. Um but even if I added this in I still found very informally that the property would be under the 40%. So, I don't know that that's of issue. That would have to be fieldverified um with specific numbers, but I don't think it's the intent that they're over uh the 40% hard cover. Um as noted in the code, uh the matter was reviewed uh not only by staff consultants and agencies, which is normal and customary when we get land use applications, but this specific code also calls out that it's reviewed by the city engineer. And we do have a letter uh in your packet that talks about um the city engine city engineers review of the request. Uh he is not supporting that request due to um the the the points of of documentation that are included in that letter that is included in your packet. Um the the other comments that are uh talked about in the planning report, we do talk about um and I'm going to scooch down just a little bit here to share some of the information that um the property owners provided to us um on the overhead at the present time. This is a survey that was um obtained from the property jacket. And as you can see, it's likely the survey that was used when the original home was constructed. And so you can see that it's a corner lot. Here's Three Points Boulevard. Here's Baywood Shores. Here's showing the the location um of the existing residence. Uh we did not require the survey to be updated uh for this application as our review as staff was that we're dealing with an existing condition related to the to the parking area or the road, whatever you want to call it um north of the property and we felt that in light of the request that we could work with existing information to the best of our ability. Um there is a comment in the planning report that talks about that we do reserve the right to require updated survey information if it's deemed to be needed. Um it's also commented that this uh parking area drive what again I don't really know what it is or what the best term is rather um that part of it is constructed in class 5. the code uh does include regulations related to what is a what a typical driveway would be. Uh and in that case they are a minimum of 10 feet. They're max of 24 at the apron. Um and they're to be located a foot off side and rear property lines. Additionally, they are meant to be hard surfaced and hard surfaced in in a in a surface material that's acceptable uh to the city which is similar to concrete, gravel, I'm sorry, concrete, patuminous, pavers, that sort of thing. A gravel driveway does not meet those code. Um you know, so that is a that is a discussion uh point that was mentioned in the planning report. Um, as I talked about, we our our very preliminary evaluation is that we believe the hard cover on the property is within their 40% allowance. So, we don't view that uh as a as a concern for us. Um, as is normal and customary, we did uh send out courtesy notification to folks uh in in the general vicinity. So, we also could have some some neighbors uh who are guests with us this evening. um staff's evaluation uh we did not support the variance uh and on pages I think five and six we included uh four findings uh including uh information that's contained uh in the city engineers letter and we can we're happy to walk through that. Um but the the criteria in the variance we don't feel have been met. Uh, number two, the proposed second driveway is not reasonable because the location is hazardous for vehicle traffic heading eastbound on ThreePoints Boulevard and turning on to Baywood Shores. Uh, we also talk about limited visibility. Uh, in addition, there's other alternatives uh for trailer traffic that can be accommodated. And then point for the information and the comments that were contained in the city engineers uh letter dated August 27th. Um, there was a uh a very nice graphic that was uh provided by the applicant with the material. And I just want to put that up. Uh this what this shows is uh Three Points Boulevard going east and west, Baywood Shores uh going north and south. You'll note that the curve um that there's a hydrant here and that there's also painted curb in that vicinity uh related to the the existing hydrant, but also uh to keep people from parking in and around uh that curve area for turning movements. And so I just wanted to point that out. Um there are with regards to the planning commission's uh procedures this evening uh staff did offer a recommendation for denial based on the conditions that were included in the planning report. Um if there's additional information that's needed either from staff or from the applicant or others, the planning commission can table the application. Uh number two, they can uh take staff's recommendation for denial uh as referenced to include the findings and the conditions that are included in the planning report, I think on pages five and six. Um or they can uh make an alternate recommendation for approval uh to include findings uh and uh as appropriate related conditions that would accompany those findings effect. Um I'll be happy to stand for questions from members of the planning commission. And I know the theers are here and will want to share their their uh application and uh request for the second driveway with members of the planning commission and guests that are with us. So with that, I'll be happy to stand for questions. >> Okay, questions for Sarah. >> Uh I guess I got one for you. You just said that the yellow was painted because of the the curve and keeping people off there from coming off three points, but I thought they said that they had it painted. >> Yeah, it it's my understanding that the inquiry was brought to the city's attention from from the property owners. >> Okay. and evaluated and the city's action from public works is that that curb was painted um to pro to protect the to protect the hydrant and also to prevent parking. >> Okay. To prevent parking for them because they were using it as >> I I'm not sure. I think it it may have been general parking because I is my understanding the other side of the road is not parking and so people were parking there and it was close to the intersection and it could have been blocking access as well. Sarah, where is the driveway on this picture currently? >> Uh, over here. >> Okay, so they're requesting it to be put over there. The >> Yeah, we can. Yeah, >> because I didn't really understand what this picture was showing. >> Let me go back to the aerial. So, just >> offer me just a moment here. So you can see here >> um this is three points east and west baywood shores. Here is the driveway for the bear's existing home. Yeah. >> This is the the area >> um that exists presently and the area where they'd like to see the apron is right about here. >> Yeah. >> So the the that area is located north of the existing home running alongside um horizontally Three Points Boulevard. So, they're asking for just the curb cutout at this point. >> Um, they could, like many neighbors that I know, just park anywhere on their lawn >> because we don't have any ordinances that prevent them from just parking on their lawn. We have we have regulations about where certain items can be parked >> in terms of property lines and how many you can have and what the weight of those >> the number seven. >> Yeah. Whatever. Whatever. Again, >> but I'm just like they actually have a driveway here where they're trying to kind of keep it >> in a certain area, but if that driveway wasn't there, they could just >> pull in there. If the area meets those provisions of the code, you can park there whether or not you have surface or not. >> Right. Right. And I think that's on our agenda to talk about this year. Right. Is that >> overall exterior storage is a general rule. Yes. Yes. >> Right. So really what's being requested is the cut off and the concern of the engineers and staff is um visibility like >> proximity, right? all those comments that were in the staff, whatever. >> Um, but do we have regulations on there there's just one driveway allowed normally or can residents have multiple driveways? >> The the code is is that it's gen it's one driveway and you can ask for a second driveway. Generally, how we've seen them is very very large areas like a U. It doesn't mean some don't exist. It doesn't mean that some, you know, haven't been there historically or maybe there there could be some that we're not aware of, but the rule of thumb is one driveway, >> right? >> We've also had garages, um, my recollection, that that have been built that don't have drive they don't have apron cuts to them because they're not using them for for storage of vehicles that need one. They're using them for more storage of personal goods type thing. >> Right. >> Right. >> Can I can I ask you where that code is? Because the way I read this 1291 198B says number of types of access on ma major streets >> is a single unless approved by engineer. I don't consider Baywood a major street, >> right? >> I'm just sharing with you how it's been applied. >> So it's not a code, but that's just how it's been applied. >> That's well and that's that's how it's written in the code, but it's one access per road. You know, otherwise every >> Where is it written in the code that way, though? It's it's written the way I stated it in the planning report, but my understanding is the application has been is that one one driveway per lot and that you could get a second one upon approval. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm I'm just sharing with you the the application as I understand it. And that's the only reason they're asking for a variance is because the way they were interpreting this code. >> They're because of the Yes. Because they're they're asking for more than one. That's correct. And I'm not saying that the that the code is written well or not. Well, I'm we're just sharing that that's the way it's been for many years. And that's that's my understanding how it's been applied. >> Okay. I I don't know that I there's an alternative recommendation from the city engineer here for how they could lay it out. I didn't quite follow um in this in in the letter here it says a safer alternative is to reroute trailer storage driveway to current driveway entrance. I didn't quite follow what they're recommending. >> I think what what he was saying and again I don't know that this that the city engineer is going to devise alternatives for them. It's just that there's other things. But I think what how I took that statement was that if if the reason is for parking, they can park in their driveway. I see away from the intersection. That's how I interpret it. >> Okay. Um, and I'm I'm just curious, so for us for our reason for denial, is it would it be our finding that it doesn't meet the practical difficulties due to not being reasonable or due to changing the character? It's not that we're trying to override the opinion of the city engineer, which I don't feel qualifying to do personally. >> Yeah, we we provided four findings of fact that you could take into consideration. Could they extend their drive? You know how when you have a round driveway, come in, go around, and go out. Could they extend their driveway to reach? The main purpose of this is for you to store. >> There's there's a probably a two foot wall >> that runs. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> So, I've asked that question already. Sorry. Maybe we >> you folks uh thank you for coming and we're gonna ask you to come come forward here in just a minute. Okay, >> thanks for ask. >> Okay, further questions for Sarah or further observations? >> The 82 ft is because of the fire hydrant, I assume. >> I'm I'm sorry, Mr. Hill. >> What's What's the 82 for? >> Um you'll I think that might be a dimension. Um maybe Miss M there or M Mr. Mrs. the provided that >> I think it's a dimension that's that's being shown I believe >> but they they'll be able to address that and I think what he's referring to is there this there's 108 here and there's another number over here >> that they can explain that >> fire hydrant probably so >> okay >> okay further questions for sure >> okay hearing none thank you >> thank you Thank you. And I'll be happy to address questions as they come up as best that I can. Sure. Thank you. >> Okay. Would Mr. or Mrs. There like to approach the commission, >> please. Miss Mer, I'm just going to share something with you. If you want to use this, just hit yel. >> You're okay. >> And we would ask you to give your name and your address, please. I'm Kathy Fear, 1705 Baywood Shores Drive Mount. My husband Rodney. Um, first off, thanks for being here tonight. I'm super uber nervous. Although I'm an insurance agent, I usually don't talk to people face to face anymore in today's world. So, >> you're fine. We're all neighbors. >> I know. I'm just like, okay, >> leave me. >> So, um, first off, good evening and thank you for volunteering your time on this council and attending this meeting. We greatly appreciate you and the service that you do for our city. Um, everyone should have a packet that I gave as an amendment. I'm sure it's completely confusing to you, but as I go through what I'm going to say, hopefully it'll become clearer, and I will address Kathy's questions that she had and anything else you guys can think of. Um, so I'm going to try to keep this brief. It's about three pages or so. Um, Mount is a lake community. Folks that live here in our area are here for the outdoor recreational possibilities that surround Lake Minnetonka. On the way here, we had to go past the ThreePoints gas station. There was a very large boat being pulled by a very large pickup truck. As soon as that gentleman pulls out of getting fueled up, he is going to impede traffic for probably 5 or 10 minutes. That happens all day long all over our city. Whether it's our city, Minatrista, Orno, it's just a lake community. So, generally speaking, these folks in our area are parking their vehicles, boats, trailers, ATVs, RVs, and fish houses on their property, as Kathy said, or on a driveway. Um, I'm glad you guys are going to start addressing that this coming year for sure, Sherry, because it's crazy in our neighborhood. It's really bad. Um, it's very common on our lake area such as ours. In the past, your mound city council manager, Eric Halverston, am I saying that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yep. Uh he once stated to you guys, "We are the fabric of Mount called upon by a city, a town, a community for your decisions that change fundamentally how people are able to live and prosper. Your expertise, not your feelings, should be what is leaned on." I've seen that said by him several times. My hope tonight is that you are not just looking for reason to justify the current code, but that you're open to other ways of thinking and to accommodating your residents. Now that I have your attention, I want to point out a few facts. Matt is not here. Am I correct? >> No, Mr. Bowman is not here this evening. >> So, the first option that I have here or the first statement that I have is in regards to Sarah and Matt's decisions as to why not. There are over 50 driveways that use Three Points Boulevard as their sole driveway. You are correct. That is a main road. Our road, Baywood Shores Drive, is not considered main. I know this because I've talked to the Orno police. I've talked to the Orno chief. I've talked to the Orno Fire Department. I've talked to the Mountain Fire Department. So, it's not a main road. of those 50 driveways plus. They don't just pull into their driveways, they back out of their driveways, they back into their driveways. They impede traffic. To answer your guys's questions, the pictures that you see are people randomly. Last night, I was driving down and I'm going, he's going to have to pull out. He pulled out and impeded traffic. He did this. He did that. Those are various just random people. Nine cars in their driveway. They back in, they pull out. They back in, they pull out. I have not seen an accident on Three Points since I've lived there since 2016. So, going back to the point of what are those pictures of? They're basically just my neighbors who mind their own business who back up their snowmobiles, their ATVs, their boats, their trailers, their kids school stuff. All of their stuff gets backed up and stopped. In fact, Dustin Timonss who >> Can I use this? >> Yes. Y scroll up and down. Yep. There's a little arrow. >> Yep. I got it. I just >> And the aerial is the first one. There you go. >> So Dustin's house is this one right here. >> Dustin goes right in and out of three points. My kitchen windows are right here. I watch Dustin, who is an ER physician, attempt to back in his boat, his ATV, his snowmobile, his anything that he has. It takes him literally 30 minutes. I have told my husband, can you please go out and just help Dustin because there's like traffic stopped on both sides of the road. So, it is not just us that does this. It happens everywhere. He tries his best, but yeah, it's not he's not putting anyone in harm's way. He's just doing the best that he can. My next point is the original request in the photo of my proposed driveway in Apron shows the city department of mound has already recognized our driveway as being a driveway. I was outside at my residence with another person who was on the planning committee. J was it >> yeah Jameson Schmega. He lives directly across the street from me. He is the house that's directly across on the corner. >> This area right here, this 82 inches, not feet, but 82 inches is not painted. The reason it's not painted is because the fire department deems this as not something that can be people can park there. There's no reason why they can't. This used to be painted to about right here, right before our driveway started. Jameson and I were out and I think it was Jason on the the actual um I don't know if you call it road crew or whoever they are. They came out and they were doing this that the other thing and he's like hey can you paint this right here because when I back out of my driveway and people park there because that road is so narrow it's hard to get around it instead of pulling out and exiting and going south on Baywood. He would like to go north on Baywood and go directly out. My other picture that's here that I submitted in your packet. Jameson just had his driveway extended 3T on this side, 3T on this side within code. He is five feet. Five feet. When you park at this stop sign right here in your picture number one that is in your packet that I gave you and you look to the east that you're going to try to turn left and go down to the gas station or go off three points. You cannot see more than I'd say 50 ft 60 ft because it is impossible. The way the road curves, the brush that's there, and the fact that you are 5t from his driveway or 5t from the corner, excuse me. Your picture number two, which is the last picture, is of me sitting in my one ton pickup truck looking out on the three points from where my proposed apron would be. There is a red truck that's going by that you can clearly see. Do I have obstructions? Do I have branches and trees and rocks? Yes, that's city property that I take care of and I maintain it and I've made m excuse me, I've made it nicer than it was before when I actually bought the house. So, our main point is this. Sarah and Matt have said it's hazardous. I don't buy that it's hazardous. There is no possible way that anyone coming down around that corner would not be able to see anyone pulling out. Everyone within our neighborhood actually pulls out, backs up, impedes traffic, slows people down, it's 30 miles an hour. If someone is to drive 30 miles an hour, it takes What is my notes? Hang on a second. The speed limit on three points is 30. A vehicle going 30 mph roughly needs 120 ft to come to a complete stop. This is per Orno police and what I also found online. 65 ft is to react and 55 is to break. Now, if you're looking at picture number two, you're not going to have that on picture number two. You're also not going to have that on picture number one. There was also a gentleman who is pulling out of his driveway and those added on pictures that I gave you where he's backing out and he cannot even see over the approach of the hill of Three Points. How was he able to back out safely out of his driveway? You guys put that driveway there. You approved that driveway there. He's driving out onto a main highway. Main roadway, I should say. 30 miles an hour. Doesn't make any sense. We use that driveway for my husband's one pickup truck in the wintertime. It does not fit in our garage. It needs to stay someplace safe and dry so it does not rust. It costs a lot of money. I don't have the money to just walk away from it. We put up a round top, which our neighbor can attest that that's there. Our RV is stored in the wintertime. It's not on that site. There's no other trailers that are there. It is used as a driveway. Our one-ton truck does not fit in our driveway. There is no way an Amazon, a bicycle, hardly anything else can fit in that driveway when that one ton truck is in that driveway. [Music] the safer route. To answer your guys's question, we can't do a safer route. As Rod said, there's a two- foot high stone wall that we just erected in that yard to try to beautify that neighborhood and that yard. Um, I don't know if you've been to our house or by our house or if you all live by us. I'm the person that does the rock stance. I stand them up. I balance them. They're not cemented. It's a Woosa thing for me. So rocks are kind of my jam. Um, if we put a driveway that goes to our existing driveway and take down part of that wall, I would do it. I would consider it. But the city said we can't because by doing that, we're going to go over our hard cover rule. That is going to tip us over. Besides the fact that there is a city city water shut off, there is I think there's electrical underneath there for something that goes across the street to the other side of um Jenny's Bay. There's fiber optics and there's a gas line. So, cannot do it. Won't be approved. I just need an extra driveway. There are over these people all have second driveways. There is a gentleman over on Wex Wexton Wexwood that just built a house. Our neighbors live across the street from them. There was an existing apron. He didn't want it. He's putting in a $ 1.9 million house. You guys approved it. He put in a second apron. He put in a second driveway. There's a gentleman that lives down on Cardinal Cove that I told Sarah about. What did he do? He's got the small little small little curves. He built a patio from his back door all the way out to the street. What does he do? He puts his car there. He puts his trailer there. And when he comes off of Jennings Bay, he drives his steering wheel right into his trailer. It's a driveway. It's not a patio. But yet, you guys approved it. If you knew about it, >> I mean, there's that. So you have Commerce Boulevard and Bartlett Boulevard. Both of those have extremely large volume of traffic. They have actual interstate commerce vehicles that are going to Jubilee that are going wherever they're going. And there is massive amounts of vehicles that pull out of residential houses all day long. Are those people in hazards way? Are they in jeopardy any more so than I am by having a second driveway that I use probably 200 days out of the year? Currently, I take 2x4s and we bank them up so we can jump over the curb because we've gone through >> the slip. >> The slip went the other one. I think I push fork and I did that. Point being, this doesn't seem fair. As Sarah has told me, the ordinance has been changed three times since it's been drafted. There is ordinances on the books in the state of Minnesota. You can't eat corn on Thursday in a church parking lot. >> You can't do all these weird things that you are no longer able to do, but yet people still do them. Ordinance are there to change with modern times is how I feel. There is no rightaway that's being endangered by anybody. Um, I don't know. I just we want to enhance the the value of our property. We want to be able to use it in a safe manner. As I mentioned, I think I'm an insurance agent. I am like safety first. We belong to the voting club. We're safety first people. We were here for the ATV um meeting I think two years ago to make sure that people are not clowns as Ry said. And that was my statement that Ry took and it was in the newspaper. Just an FYI, um I don't know if you guys know who an English philosopher named John Lock is. Okay, so John Lock was basically don't let government govern your way of thinking. They're not there to oversee you so much that it shadows what you're thinking. Please don't do that to us. We just need an extra driveway. We're damaging our personal property. [Music] Any questions? >> Questions for Mrs. Styer. >> Their like dear >> fear. >> Sorry. >> Well, I drove by yesterday, but I really wasn't I didn't know what I was looking for to be honest. Now that I've heard your story and Sarah's described this, I'm going to go back and drive by it again. >> I appreciate it. You're welcome to come out and visit. Really, honestly, because it doesn't it's not really going to harm anybody. >> It it So, you just have a your driveway just fits the one vehicle. It's a >> It's um It's like a >> We just had it expanded because we just did a a cement driveway, which we're extremely happy about. So, we just did a cement driveway. So it's a 21 ft now. So it's 21 ft wide. So if you had six or nine Kia small cars, you could probably stack them in, >> but you wouldn't be able to get out. >> You put them side by side. >> Yeah. But you won't be able to get out. >> Right. Right. >> So there's no there's no real way. And it has a really high curve just because of the trajectory of the of the land. It has a high bump to it. So, as soon as you go into it, and our neighbors can attest, every time we pull our boat into it, every time we pull a trailer into it, it goes because we can't get up and over anything, no matter what kind of hitch we put on, it doesn't make a difference. So, trying to go from there to the other side is impossible. Trying to just park anything there is impossible. If we go to the left of the garage, we have two elderberries. What are they called? These very large trees that our neighbor, >> huh? >> Hackberries. There we go. And the arbor baristas went out to our house as well and they're like, "Please don't take these down. I mean, I know they're a mess. I know they're but don't take them down." If we cemented that side of our driveway to accommodate it and go, "Okay, you guys, we surrender. We're going to ask the other neighbors. We're going to have to take down this one tree because we can't we're going to ruin the the root system just putting in the tree." My other alternative is, and I'm sure you guys are going to say, "No, we're not going to grant this." I hope you actually think about it and come and look at the property. I am willing to put up a mirror like they have around the lake that says, "I'm going to look in that mirror and I'm going to be able to look behind me a safe distance so I can get out without anybody bothering it." Do we back out into Three Points and then back into it? Yes, we do that. Excuse me, we have to there. That road is not wide enough, which is why we don't have parking on this whole entire side of the street is no parking. People park there. Heck, people park in front of this yellow thing because they're young kids and they go across the street to the Johnson's household. That's literally their names. This is a very narrow road like a lot of roads in Mound are. You can't park on both sides because a fire truck needs to be able to get down it. Mhm. Mhm. >> So, if I need to put a mirror on a pole right here, I'm willing to do it. We're willing to work with you guys or I hope you work with us. And if I have, what did you say? A 25 foot. >> I'm sorry. >> You were saying um that the driveway can only be so many feet. >> There are minimum of 10 and their max of 24. >> Okay. So, 24. So, literally then the only reason we put it here is because we're trying to make sure that the front of our yard looks pretty. We don't want all of these folks to look at the fact that these guys have a camper, they have a they have a snowmobile trailer. I get it. I like toys. Um, we tuck it back here. If we have to stop it and have it be right here, we will. If I'm put a garage in there, which I've asked Sarah, what if I build a garage? If I put a 30 by30 garage in there and tuck everything into the garage, doesn't mean you're gonna get an an application approved for an apron. Well, you're gonna give me a permission to put a garage in there, but I'm not going to be able to purposely use it. I mean, that's that's the kind of combiveness that just doesn't work anymore. Any questions? I don't know. Anything you want to say, Rod? I'm trying to do the best I can. I don't I appreciate your comments. Thanks. I'm trying to be polite. >> So, the new driveway you'd be pulling around your boulder wall, your the boulders that are >> No. So, the boulder wall, you can kind of see it. It's really hard if you look at on your laptop. The boulder wall is right here. This was all woods. Believe it or not, we took out 86 trees out of this property. when the people that lived there before us, the good fellows, this was all heavy woods. This was all heavy woods. We took out 86 trees because they were in bad shape. We found I ended up with septus because I had to sit on the ground and clean this ground. There was diapers, swimsuits, cans, unmentionables in this yard. It was disgusting when we bought the property. So, we put in this boulder wall to give it some character and then also to separate out the fact that this is our little fire pit we like to sit and hang out at because we talk to the neighbors when they walk by. >> So, this is our driveway. >> It's probably six, four feet from the boulder wall. No, from the boulder wall. Six four feet. >> Oh, yeah. >> About four feet from the boulder wall. So, >> I got that over there. So, I got a question here. So, the driveway. I can understand you were going to build the garage, right, to put the truck inside. >> I would love to, but we have a round top that we put up there. I don't, you know, I'm I'm that girl that has these unicorn dreams, but I don't have a unicorn budget. >> I'm I'm familiar with your house. I drive by it about four or five times a day. >> I know you live in our neighborhood. >> I do. >> I see you a lot. >> You're the guy that Your house is across the street from the RV. >> Across. >> Across from the street from the guy who has the big RV parked in his driveway. >> That's him. That's my husband. That's us. Oh, okay. >> This is our home. We have that brown fence. It's a fence, chain lane fence. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> So, this is this is um I don't know. This is the area where the kids all hang out and play. There's about nine children that live between these three houses and we asked to have a slow children playing sign put up and you guys wouldn't do it. So, they went on Amazon and got their own and they put it up. Anyways, they're like, "Wouldn't you" because people for some reason come around this corner and they throttle it and they think it's cool because it echoes off the lake. >> So, this is this is our home. >> Your house has a cars in the front yard. >> The rocks. The cars. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm the carn I'm the car lady. Yep. >> I don't know if people knew what that was, but yes, that's me. >> Yeah. I just walk by your place. >> Thanks. I like it, too. >> So, yep. That's basically us. >> So, I'm just right. How does that solve the problem? put it in the driveway if you're going to leave >> because I have because I have a round top that goes in here and he has a one-tonon extended cab pickup that's over 24 ft and it will not fit in your average attached garage which by building codes in Minneapolis years and years and years ago an attached garage was not allowed. It's crazy how building codes change. But >> okay, sorry. Excuse my ignorance here. I'm really sorry. I don't mean to belver this point. You're gonna build a driveway. You're gonna put the RV there. Your truck. You're put >> The RV sits there. The RV sits there during the summer months, >> right? I see that. So, you're gonna put your truck there and you're gonna cover up the truck >> with a >> with the in the winter. >> Yep. And in the winter time, then he can get out safely without having to worry about >> It's more of a get out safety than really. >> Okay. Then the garage to protect the truck, >> right? >> I don't have I don't have 30 grand right now. It's all about the apron, >> right? >> Yeah. If I could build a garage, I would. It's up to them, right? >> Maybe someday we'll build a build a garage, but not for a couple of years. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> thank you for your patience. >> And I do see you in the neighborhood. [Music] >> Okay. Uh, further questions for Mrs. Spear >> hearing none. Thank you for coming forward. >> Yep. Do you want me to do anything? >> You're good. >> You're good. Would anyone else in the audience like to approach the commission regarding this planning case? >> Okay, seeing none, you have uh read uh staff's report. You've heard from Mrs. Spear. On page five of your agenda, staff has recommended disapproval of the request for uh a driveway entrance with four findings of fact. As Sarah pointed out before we got into this discussion, we have uh at least three options. One is to approve recommend approval because I want to point out the planning commission recommends to the city council. We don't make the final decision. We can recommend approval. We can recommend disapproval or we can table the request for more information. And if we do that, I think we need to specify as clearly as we can what the more information would be. I do have a mirror on order in my cart on Amazon to put it on the fact that you wanted more information. It was only $87. So, >> I'm committed. >> Sarah, did I get that right? >> What's that? >> Did I get that right? >> You got that right. Okay. Yes, you did. Thank you. >> All right. Uh discussion amongst the commission regarding this request. >> I have a Sorry. I have a following question for Sarah, actually. Um, the one thing that's niggling at me is is would this have come to us for consideration if it were a primary driveway? >> If it does, if >> that was their only driveway. >> No. Um, because the the the with the curb cut, if there's no driveway there, you can apply for a street cut opening permit. And the street street cut or the street opening permit um is reviewed by the public works department for dimension for hard cover and and material you to make sure that it's meeting the code requirements for size width material and setbacks. So okay >> otherwise no we wouldn't uh we wouldn't see it here if it meets the requirements. So, I'll just say the the one thing that isn't on my mind is that I'm not qualified to assess the safety, right? Um, but if it wouldn't have even come to the city engineer for a safety assessment, if it were a primary driveway, I find it it doesn't make sense to me that it would meet that standard just for a second. I don't personally see it as very different, but >> I agree with you and I I'll say this is one of the few times I disagree with Sarah that, you know, I don't think it's a major street. So, I was even surprised that this came to planning commission because I I I drove by it. I see you guys have wood out there right now in the street. >> Um, >> pick it up, let it heavy. >> And the fact that >> Jameson across the street just got his driveway widened. >> And it's only driveway though, right? >> But it's even closer to the street than this one. >> Jameson has two. >> He's got one off three points. That's >> direct to direct to three points. >> I forgot to mention. Yes. >> Directly across the street. He keeps his boat in the back and drives right off. >> Driveways are direct on Three Point or one on >> Jame across from them. >> They have one that they just wind. It's closer to the street, the curb than theirs. >> That's on Baywood >> on Baywood. And then he's also got one off his back of his >> house that he keeps a boat in that goes on to three. >> Okay, that that's what I want clarification. Thank you. So, the fact that the code specifically says a major street, so I don't think this is a major street and I think there's plenty of >> cases where people have two driveways and I don't think this would even be coming your to your point if this was their only driveway. They people could always turn right onto Baywood instead of, you know, taking a hard left >> and the hard right that Jameson takes on Baywood is even closer than this. So, >> and I do see I I live on Three Points. I see plenty of people backing up all over whether it be in cars or trailers. So I don't this is the one time I would disagree with this and I would be in favor of granting the variance. >> Okay. Further discussion. >> My my question is who bears the cost for the cutout? It's is the city or the >> that's a that's an applicant. >> The applicant bears the cost for the cut. >> That's an applicant. >> I mean I I agree with you guys. I um I think they have a current hardship. I think parking on a driveway is better than parking in the grass close to the street. Um I'd like to see driveways or hard surfaces being a standard for parking vehicles versus >> yards, >> you know. >> Okay. Further discussion. >> Sarah has a question. Ma'am, >> I just uh had one question with regards to some of the comments that that we've heard from members of the planning commission is that um as was noted in the planning report, the the driveway, I think you're you're referring to it to driveway. I didn't know if it's parking area. I called it an area, but in the code it does talk about the driveway and the driveway standards are 10 feet min sidewalk or side and rear setbacks and a hard surface. This is not a hard surface. So the if in fact one of the discussion is that if the planning commission might be going down that path of feeling favorable um to the request the existing conditions and if that's going to stay or if that's to be constructed according to the code you are going to want to kind of weave that into your discussion either as a subsequent or wrap it up. Okay, that makes sense. >> So, am I understanding that if you get approved to have an apron, are you not going to um do a hard tar or >> That was not our That was not our original plan. But if you guys come to us with a concession saying we need to put a harder surface in there, there are pavers that are more >> they're not decorative, but they're more cement based. And if we need to work in that fact and it's not going to be something where it's going to cost me $60,000 to put in an apron, you know, I we're opening to that. We're here to have a conversation with you and to try to make it work. Um, >> so if you put tar or cement, that would be a hard cover problem. But if you put the pavers on that allow >> drainage to go through and they're those fancy ones that you see like at Mars that are like, you know, they're scalloped looking and you put them down and they're more cement and they're more of a heart. And according to Jason, who I've had at night, he's like, "You've got to get the apron in first, Kathy. We painted it for you because we're notifying it as a driveway." Which came right out of his mouth. Jason, he works on the I don't know his last name. He's the gentleman who works on the um street >> works. Dustin painting crew. >> Dustin. >> He's the street part of the street crew for the city. His name is Jason. >> No, I don't know his last name. >> Nope. He's kind of a roly poly guy. He's kind of nice. >> Ryan. >> Is it Ryan? >> Ryan public works director. >> Okay. So, probably Ryan. And I'm sorry. >> Dustin Pascal. >> Yeah. Dustin Pascal is the public superintendent. >> The other thing I was going to mention only is and I know I've had my time. >> This is not the only way out of that neighborhood. I don't know like if most of you that live in that neighborhood and live in Three Points, there's it goes Baywood Shores turns and it goes around the corner. It horseshoes back out to Baywood Lane and it goes the other direction. So, if we're ever in that area and we park on the street, which our neighbors can attest to, we park our boat and our RV and our pickup truck. They go out the other direction. We feel bad about doing that. So, this is our way of being neighborly going, we want to be able to park it on our driveway, please. >> Well, I agree. I I don't think I've ever ever gone disagreed with Sarah and Matt Bowman. Again, I drove by it. I wish I would have had a bigger grasp on what exactly you were doing, but it was yesterday. It was a long weekend. I didn't even feel that I had time to come in and talk to Sarah about it. Um, so I would either say table it to get a better understanding or I'd be in a agreement of allowing you to >> to do the a >> to allow the apron. >> Okay. Further discussion. >> If I could just ask, do you have any initial thoughts on tableabling it? I'm I'm feeling like tableabling it as well, but I want to, as chair said, be very specific on the information that we would need and I'm not I'm trying in my head to figure out what that information would be. Now, the alternate would be I I wouldn't be inclined to approve it unless it was paved and I don't know how that would be with the pavers. So, I I think that would I would need more information on that as a potential solution or requirement, but I can't think of any other um more information specific that we would need. I do agree with Jason and Jason, I'm glad you brought it up. I I had a little I was a little thrown off with the term major road, too, because I don't know what constitutes a major street. I know the engineers said this road has approximately 3,000 cars on it a day, but does is that part of that definition of what's a major road? I don't know. So, I I mean I'm there's a couple things that I just are very gray to me with this one and I but I don't know what more information we would need. >> Sarah, do pavers count against hard cover? um avous paper which is like again I'm just going to use the the generic name an echo stone or a unisone or a similar product. We allow those as a hard surface subject to a couple of conditions. Number one, it has to be designed for for its use. Um it has to be uh the max allowed reduction is not more than 85%. So if you if depending on the how it's designed and how it's installed which has to be commercial has to be a commercial constru contractor and then there's an inspection once your subgrade is in to make sure that whatever whatever the recipe is for underground for that to sit on top that that's where you get your drainage from. It isn't just like taking you know paver stones and hooking them all up into into a driveway. Echostoner is an engineered driveway, but we see them quite a bit. We see them quite a bit. Um, with regards to if that's an option, that's certainly been used and deemed acceptable um, upon approval by the city engineer and the public works, you know, and it's also a way to reduce hard cover significantly. Um, a straight old betuminous or a straight old concrete is 100%. And so that driveways are a big user of hard cover space. So a lot of folks do use the pvious paver system to reduce that down. And they're and they're great for filtration as well. Um the one and I I'm just going to kind of tack on from Miss from Miss Wacker's comments. The one thing uh if if the driveway the second driveway is is supported with a recommendation. The other thing that would be helpful um either to be confirmed or verified is it's I don't know if you're thinking you'll change the location um because we don't have it on a survey, but our code says driveways have to be that foot off the side lot line and off your rear lot line and and I didn't walk it. I drove by. So just based on the graphic from Henipin County, it looks like you're close, but you might be a couple feet. I don't know. Do you do you know either either one of you >> as far as the setback? >> The the driveway location from your north lot line and your west lot line. >> It is way off of that. >> It's like 15 or 20 feet from >> So So the aerial is deceiving then where >> it's a hill so it kind of comes up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> okay. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Further discussion. >> Well, to Samantha's point, my only other question was because they kept talking about safety issues. Is it the safety issue? Well, it's parked your vehicles or just the backing out of the driveway that becomes the safety issue. I think it's the safety issue from what I understood of backing out and a potential subsequently >> because of the the way that the street goes like this. We have to go out directly onto Baywood. We obviously stop at the stop sign and then go out. >> Um we are able to go out in onto three points and maybe Jason has seen us do this. We pull out with the with the fifth wheel and the boat behind it and we are able to go all the way around with a one- ton truck without backing up and turning around and make that whole entire Uturn and he does it effortlessly probably four times a year. Um, so there's plenty of room for it. Um, I don't know. I don't >> that's just not my opinion. These guys have seen him do it and they go, "Holy crap. A good back burner is a work of art. >> I will agree with that. >> I I get out and I take it off the trailer and then I put in the trailer and I get back up. >> Okay. Further discussion. Okay. Hearing none. Um you've seen staff's recommendation. We've had discussion here tonight. Um the chair would entertain a motion regarding this request. And I remind you that it's either recommend approval to the city council, recommend disapproval to the city council, or table. And if we table, we need to specify what the additional information would be. >> So I guess I have one more question for Sarah. Is that okay? >> Sir, >> so if you put an apron in by definition, does that make it a driveway? I just cured. I don't know what the I was looking for in the code. >> Well, I >> for the >> I kind of pondered that in my head too. Um because with respect, it's been there for a while. That parking area has been there for a while. um whenever it got kind of improved and maybe that was done with the you know with the landscaping and the tree removal but I it seems that once you put the apron on and it's being used for parking of vehicles and things it feels like it becomes a driveway rather than a a parking area. And again, I don't have anything that technologically that says that that's what it is, but that's I think that's how I think that's a reasonable assumption. >> Yeah, I just couldn't find anything in the code about it. >> Yep. I didn't find anything that helped me with that either. >> So, there's no code as to the quantity and type of vehicle, square footage of vehicles. It's that falls under, you know, what you can do there falls under the exterior storage regulations in terms of where they can be located, how many you can have. We also have regulations for temporary structures um where those can go, temporary hoop houses, they have they have requirements as well. Um, but if it if what's being parked, wherever it's being parked is conforming to the regulations that allow it, they can park there. Uh, from where the the fears are coming from is they don't want to jump the curb anymore. >> I mean, can we put a curb in that's that low profile curb? >> I think I think I think we call that same. I mean, if you got to cut the curb, you might as well >> cut the curb. >> I guess I'm not quite ready to make a recommendation, but I don't like all the neighbors approved it, signed off, and we're in favor of it. >> And I don't think denying it is going to change them from using it as there. So, it's not going to change the safety. And if it wasn't for the fact it's a second, it would already be approved. It wouldn't even gone through this. And I don't I don't Maybe we need to change the code, but I don't consider it a major street, so I don't even think it should go here. >> Did you you said that um that Jameson has a driveway? Is that a paved >> driveway? >> It's asphalted. He just asphalted about three weeks ago. >> Gotcha. >> And he's one of the one I mean, all the neighbors signed. >> Yeah. Right. They saw that >> in favor of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, if you deny it, they're still going to use it the same way and leave leave 2x4s in the street. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Further discussion. >> Going once, twice. Chair would entertain a motion regarding this request. >> I make a motion that we approve the request by the fairs. has approved the variance across rate. >> Yep. The varian. Thank you. However you need to word that. Yes. >> Uh I'll second it. >> Okay. We have a motion and a second discussion. >> Sarah, >> I really would like to see it paved. >> Are we approving the variance assuming it will be >> paved? That's >> Well, I did not say that in the motion. >> I mean, >> should we? >> We could add that to the motion >> as a Would you like to add >> as a recommendation that it be paved as a driveway and and I mean it would have to meet the driveway conditions. >> However, I mean we're talking about >> You mean hard cover in the driveway? >> However, we're talking about an added expense, right, for them um to put in a driveway there where they're already using it that way. So, I don't know. I don't know. I will just say my motion is as is with no conditions >> to approve the cut off. I mean you guys can vote it down if you want. >> Well, we have a motion and a second on the floor. >> Further discussion. >> I mean, it's unclear to me if you have to pave it. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> And they're they're already storing it back there. I think it's better they store it way back in the corner, >> right? Versus 25. Yeah, >> up front and all the neighbors would probably rather have it be back there, >> right? >> Agreed. >> It's kind of >> kind of hidden away, tucked back there and only in the summer. So, >> I would be supportive of unconditional approval. So, just primarily because if it were a single driveway, it would be not coming to us. >> It would be paved. >> Yeah. Oh, that's true. It would be pain. >> I mean, my neighbor doesn't have a paved driveway next door to me. So, I mean, >> yeah, but >> I think it would be setting too much of a precedence if we did it with no conditions. I just I I'm not comfortable with that. So, I mean, it's fine. You can keep your motion as is, but that's where >> or if I'm going to deny it, that's why is because I think that >> setting without conditions would set too much of a precedence. And I also am struggling a little bit too on the it meeting the hardship. Um, but you can keep it as is. It's your motion. >> Okay. What what conditions would you had? >> It it has to meet the standards of a of a driveway. Correct. Yep. >> Okay. But what if it's not considered a driveway? It's just they're putting an apron in. >> It's not just about the apron. >> That's my confusing. >> I still think it's kind of it still would be setting the precedence. They're using it as a driveway. They're parking on it. I think that it sets a precedence. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um we have a motion on the floor. Does everybody understand it? We have a second. >> Thank you. >> We have further discussion hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Those opposed? Nay. >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Okay. I think the eyes have it. Unless my ears are wrong. >> Five. 52. >> 53. Right. >> You were nay. You were nay. And you were nay. >> You're four. So one, two, three, four. So it's five to three. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And then we also should have findings. >> All right. Um, so the motion carries. It is our custom for those who voted against the motion to u briefly note their reasons why if they wish to. >> Well, I think I stated mine already. Do you do you think it ought to be connected to >> I just think I think there should be some conditions because I think it sets a precedence for other activities but also I I'm still struggling with the hardship piece and um I would agree with some aspects and portions of the city engineer on the safety issues. >> Can I address that? >> It's not going to change my ball but you can certainly address it. >> No, >> we need to finish our work here. Just a minute, please. >> I'm asking a question. >> Okay. Um, next >> my issue is the is the hard cover or the paved. I really would want it paved if we're going to do that kind of. >> So that's my only issue. >> The condition >> my condition would be to have to be paid. I would prefer it to be paved. >> Okay. And >> that was just >> who was three. >> Who else denied it? >> Who was three? Just deny it. >> Just the two of them. >> I did not deny it. >> Oh. Oh. So just so planning commission members Heel and Mr. Wacker, >> Mr. Heel, we weren't able to hear you very well. >> Can you repeat your finding? >> Yeah, just I'm looking for need to be paid. I'm looking more for >> similar to Miss Wacker. And we also should have findings when appropriate for the folks that are recommending approval to be included into the record unless if you also can refer back to the discussion at the meeting as well. >> Do we have to all like approve findings of fact or how do you do that? >> We should include findings based on your review. >> So do >> Okay. So that so actually the motion that was made and carried um just basically says that um staff's recommendation is not is not endorsed if I can put it that way and u I think we've heard the reasons why and it'll go forward to city council in that form. >> Did I get that right? >> Yeah, we can. That's reasonable. >> Okay. And if I'm not incorrect, if I'm reading our agenda, our packet correctly, this would either go to the city council on September 9 or September 23, depending upon the agenda. Is that correct? >> Yeah. I because of the time of the year, I I am going to do my due diligence to try and turn it around for next Tuesday's meeting. Um just because we're you know we're getting into September and that's ahead of two weeks. It it'll be a push but I think that's the game plan. So >> do what's best. Yeah. If we have to isure if we have to look at it for next spring we are okay. We we're willing to work with you guys >> 100%. >> I I don't see any reason why we won't push it ahead. >> Just let me know. >> I appreciate you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean because in in the event something happens at the council they want some more information. We have a little more time, >> so we'll just keep it moving. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But thank you and thank you for coming. >> Okay. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Moving on. Uh planning case number 25-10 review. This is an expansion permit deck portion conversion to screen porch 1765 Jones Lane. Applicant Steve Hansen on behalf of Steve Chase. It is kind of a little confusing and I don't know. I feel like they had hard covers like a second drive. Okay. Thank you again. Sarah Smith. I'm the presenter for our second case this evening, uh, which is for an expansion permit, uh, located at 1765 Jones Lane. The property owner is Steve Chase. Uh, the applicant that is representing the owner this evening is Stephen Hansen. uh and I believe he's with us. Uh the existing property on Jones uh is a single family residence uh with garage. Uh they are proposing to convert uh an existing deck that's on the street side or the front side of the property. Uh a portion of which is to be converted and turned into a screened porch. Uh as noted in the planning report, the deck received variance approval uh a handful of years ago recognizing a lesser setback of 28 ft. Standard setback for that district for a deck and a structure is 30 ft. Uh the expansion permit is being requested because we're converting a deck to a solid structure and to uh which is an expansion of the intensity of the area that was previously granted the variance a handful of years ago. Um a little bit about the property. Um it's it fronts Jones Lane on the south side. uh adjacent properties across the street uh and within the channel. Note that that's portions of Lake Minnetonka. Um the property owner submitted a building permit and we learned as part of our review that uh because of the existing variance that was granted uh for the deck to convert that to structure needed an expansion permit. And so that's why they're here this evening. Um, from a very uh basic perspective, it's a smaller deck. They're not doing the full, they're doing a portion of it. Staff believes that's minimizing uh the need for the expansion permit. They are working within the existing footprint of the existing deck. And again, that was granted the variance and and we see that as an extension, but an intensification because it'll be filled in with structure. Uh applicant information is that the the screen porch portion meets uh the requirements for eaves as it'll have two foot eaves all around. Um and that the screen portion screen porch portion is actually going to be constructed on top. Uh as is normal and customary for a land use application, we did send notice uh as a courtesy to neighbors. Uh it was also routed for review uh and determination of completeness and comments to staff, consultants and agencies. Uh and that is a normal practice for a land use application. Um they also submitted and prepared a hard cover calculation sheet and the changeover does not uh bring them out of their allowance that for the property which again is 40 uh 40% maximum hard cover. Um staff has recommended approval of the expansion permit. The uh conditions and the findings are incorporated into the staff report I think on pages is it 16 through 18. >> Um and so I will stand for questions and I think Mr. Hansen is here is here as well and it's been nice to work with him and and Mr. Chase uh and the other applicants on their cases. So, we're we're happy for their assistance and cooperation as we work through review, but I will be happy to stand for questions. Um, just a couple of other uh housekeeping. We did not require them to update the survey because the survey that we had, we actually took from the property file, which I think also was utilized in the the variance case when the deck was expanded to replace an existing deck a handful of years ago. And because it's an existing improvement and the footprint isn't changing. Sta staff thought that was reasonable. Of course, the the city can reserve its right to uh require uh an updated survey if it's deemed to be needed. The uh hard cover, as we talked about, is consistent with the allowance that's allowed on the property. Um and they are within our allowed time for review. The application just came in a week or so ago, so we have 60 days from day one. So we have adequate time but uh again because of the time of the year that we are we wanted to keep things moving so that they can understate un undertake and start their project yet this fall. So with that I will be happy to stand for questions. >> Questions for Sarah? >> Isn't this something that if this wasn't a deck could you approve this normally because it's you're just going up on a >> I think so non-conforming. Yeah, we talked about that. I think if it was deck replacement or de deck expansion within that footprint, I think we would have felt more comfortable that we might be able to try to do it administratively, but because this is de deck that's converting to structure. We felt that it was the plan, it was better that the planning commission and the council saw it. Okay, >> further questions for Sarah? Okay. Uh, Mr. Hansen, would you like to address the commission? >> Oh, thank you. Good to see you. >> Yeah, they >> uh, please state your name and your address, please. >> Steve Hansen. I live on 3723 Kipling Avenue in Minnetonka. >> Uh, Steve Chase is in the hospital right now >> doing some cancer treatment. So, I'm just kind of [Music] kind of in his shoes for just a little while >> on his behalf. >> He's going to get uh he's for sure going to get recover and and be wanting to do something. So, uh he will be hiring the work out. So, that will be done professionally and u I'm just trying to get it moving forward. Um, the reason why he really likes the screen porch in the front of the house is because he can see the lake from there and so they keep uh going out to the deck and and getting eaten up by mosquitoes and things like that. So, he's really not in really want to enclose it. He really likes the screen porch effect. So, that is the main driver over this. and it is uh most of it's structurally sound, but there is going to be some footings that need to be engineered and that's all going to go through the building department when we >> take out a permit. So, >> okay. >> Uh we're planning on doing all of that. >> Okay. Question for Mr. Hansen. >> Is the screen porch portion I just couldn't tell exactly from the pictures. Is it the vaulted area of the deck or is it the whole deck? Is it >> It's just the uh uh >> the west part >> just part of the deck that is I think I have a little better >> with the fireplace that sticks out that area. >> Yeah. Yep. It'll go from the fireplace to the west side of the corner of the house. So it's following the west is the left side. >> The left side of the from the fireplace to the left. Yeah. >> So, it'll be uh >> Oh, just half of it. >> Yep. Not even half. >> Not even. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a 38 uh >> It's a pretty big deck. >> Yeah. It's a It's a large deck. >> 10 by 14 >> 34T deck. And it's just 16 ft of it. So, it's less than half. And uh >> and it will follow the contour of the roof. This is the fire fireplace. >> Oh, gotcha. >> So, it's just that >> Oh, and that's the vault. Okay. I see. It'll follow the contour of the roof, so it's going to tie in and the siding will all match the existing siding. And >> I know with screen porches, you have to be concerned with the wind uh requirements. And so there will be two foot walls in each corner of the screen porch that will give it the structure. And that'll be sided the same as the house. So it'll all kind of not look like it's added on. Uh so it should look really uniform is really his goal. >> Why are we seeing this picture of a stump? >> Oh, that's that's a that's an a survey iron. >> Oh, okay. I figured there was a reason it was there. I'm trying to scroll down. >> I wanted to confirm. >> I was going to see if everybody was reading. >> Yeah, I wanted to Yeah, >> I wanted to find >> 29. >> I wanted to find a a lot line just because this was hoping he didn't have to do a survey for this. Okay. >> But I was concerned that >> we have to prove this the city that we didn't he didn't >> encroach on the existing variant. So that's what that's what I did and measured back and it's less than it's more than 20 feet 8t back. So, >> and the the lot line is a is a official lot lot state. So, thank you for clarifying. >> Okay. Further questions from Mr. Hansen? >> Hearing none. Thank you. Good. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Discussion amongst the commission. Oh, >> hearing none. If you uh look on page 18 of the packet, you will see that staff is recommending approval of u the expansion permit with six conditions and four findings of fact. I guess they're simply findings, pardon me. Um, I will make a motion to approve the expansion permit 2510 for 1765 Jones Lane, including conditions 1 through six, page 18 and findings 1 through 4, page 18 from staff. >> Second. >> Okay, I have a motion and a second. Further discussion hearing? None. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> Those opposed, nay. >> Motion carries. Thank you. And again, uh Sarah will let you know about city council in terms of when this will get on their agenda. >> We're going to turn this too. >> So these would um this one will be on the consent agenda. The other one will be on the regular agenda. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Yes. Thank you. Say chase as well. >> Okay. Old new business. Um city council leaison. Kath, do you have anything? >> I do not have anything other than um OL's uh Incredible Festival is next weekend. Not this weekend, next weekend. >> But Sarah, I do have a question for you and maybe a lot of you have this question. I I get it asked a lot. >> The proposed um development that is over in the old um uh Halsteads and and merging with Minitrista. >> Where is that going anywhere? They received their preliminary um plat and related approvals on the Minatista side. >> Oh, they did. >> They did. Yeah. I think around the first week in August, we received written applications, but we did not receive the supporting documents, the plat, the utility plans, elevation drawings, the building crosssections, grading, drainage, landscaping, the we got the paper, like the like the forms. We just didn't receive the stuff. So, I just reached out to them today and I think they'll be calling back. I'm hoping it's going to be soon. >> Okay. I just So, when I respond to people, it is still moving forward. Yep. They just >> I kept saying it was Minatrista going through their documentation. >> They received preliminary approvals and Minatrista. Okay. Great. So, and I think that they wanted to do that first, but I was kind of hoping when when that stuff came in, I thought the other stuff would come soon. It just there's just a lot of stuff to >> Right. Right. Coordinating between the two. Hopefully I'll have a little more information um at the next meeting or maybe they could even be here in a meeting. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Yes, you're welcome. >> Okay. Um anything else, Kath? >> No, that's it. Thank you. >> Um Sarah, anything from you? >> I don't have anything new um short of um I echo we've got the um uh OL Incredible Festival coming up, not this weekend, but the weekend after that. Mama's Happy is also having a fall festival >> um in front of their uh parking lot in Stonegate I think around the same days. >> Same days >> like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So that's kind of a new thing for them. The council approved that um at a meeting or so ago. Um so that's that's kind of where we're at. I don't have anything more. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh next meeting Tuesday, October 7. 6 pm. Lastly, information items. We have none. Does anyone on the commission have anything they'd like to bring up? >> Hearing none. Uh, chair would entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> We have a motion to second. Discussion. Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> Those opposed, nay. Motion carries. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you everyone. >> Thank you.