This is a transcription of the White Bear Lake City Council meeting. Based on the context of the dialogue, I have identified the speakers, including Mayor Dan Larson (referred to in the text as "Dan Lewism"), City Manager Lindy Crawford, City Engineer Paul Kopka (referred to as "Mr. Copy"), and various council members and residents. [0:28] **Background Noise**: e [0:58] **Background Noise**: e [1:28] **Background Noise**: e [1:58] **Background Noise**: e [2:28] **Background Noise**: e e [3:24] **Mayor Dan Larson**: all right we're going to call the meeting to order will the clerk please note those in attendance will be noted would you please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible all all right we jump in item 2 a minutes of the regular city council meeting on August 27 2024 i' entertain a motion to approve those minutes have a second motion a second all those in favor say I I any opposed minutes are approved item three adoption of the agenda are there any corrections or changes to the agenda seeing none I'd entertain a motion to adopt the [4:10] **Mayor Dan Larson**: agenda have a motion a second all those in favor say I any opposed we have an agenda item four consent agenda I'd entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda Mo motion a second all those in favor say I I any opposed consent agenda is approved all right item 5A Constitution week Proclamation I look forward to doing this every year I think it's an important thing that we acknowledge the Constitution and the anniversary of its adoption so without further Ado I will read that Proclamation now whereas the Constitution of the United States of America the guardian of our liberties embodies the principles of limited government in a republic dedicated to the rule of law whereas [4:56] **Mayor Dan Larson**: September 17 2024 marks the 237 th anniversary of the framing of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional Convention whereas it is fitting in proper to Accord official recognition to This Magnificent document and its memorable anniversary and to the Patriotic celebration which will commemorate the occasion whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the president of the United States of America designating September 17th through the 23rd as Constitution week and now therefore be it resolved that I Dan lewism by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of white be Lake Minnesota do hereby proclaim the week of September 17 [5:41] **Mayor Dan Larson**: through the 23rd as Constitution week and ask our citizens to reaffirm the ideals of the framers of the Constitution that they had in 1787 by vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us through this guardian of our liberties [6:02] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank all right so over the next week go and celebrate the Constitution okay item 5B the Century Avenue reconstruction project update Mr Copy [6:15] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: uh mayor members of the council uh tonight we have representatives from Washington County and their consultant um will present on the uh Cent Avenue uh Highway 120 project uh basically from um Interstate 694 up to County Road E and uh just kind of uh the uh they'll be presenting on where we've been uh through some public engagement uh some preliminary design and then uh some of the uh uh next steps uh Council [6:48] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: approvals on certain things um uh regarding the design options and then uh kind of go through a schedule as far as funding goes and um timeline for construction so I'll introduce Aon karowski she is the project manager from Washington County I should note that this is a joint Ramsey County Washington County project uh Washington county is the uh lead Agency on it and uh Aon will present and um at the end we'll have time for questions [7:18] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: good evening mayor and council members as mentioned I'm Aon karowski I'm a civil engineer with Washington County I have with me tonight Maddie dalheimer who is also a planner with Washington County Tim lamin who is a civil engineer with Bolton and mink and [7:35] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: Kelsey Larson who is a traffic engineer with Bolton and mink so our project team is here tonight to present an update for the State Highway 120 Century Avenue North reconstruction project as you are likely aware State Highway 120 Century Avenue North between 694 in County Road E County Highway 12 and Wildwood Road in White Bear Lake in mamei which is shown in Orange on the left side of the screen is in the process of being transferred jurisdictionally from State ownership to County ownership because Century Avenue is a border Road between Ramsey and Washington County each County will receive their respective half of [8:21] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: the road as of this summer the counties in the state have come to an agreement on the transfer terms and have an executed agreement ment we are anticipating the date of release which is essentially when the road gets transferred from the state to the counties and the County Highway number to be determined in the spring of 2025 so this construction project came about because along with this formal jurisdictional transfer process the agencies involved are aware that there are many opportunities for improvement along this stretch of sentury Avenue so funding for construction was solicited and successfully acquired Washington county is leading the design effort for the upcoming project along Century Avenue at this time we're [9:07] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: excited to report that Washington County has $7 million in federal funding Acquired and a potential $2 million earmarked from federal congressionally directed funding the counties will also receive $10.5 million from the state as a part of the transfer process for this one mile stretch of Century Avenue with the funding in hand we've gathered a group of necessary agency staff that inform the project by representing their communities some project considerations that this group is committed to improving along the stretch of Century Avenue include safety multimodal balance and improving existing [9:53] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: conditions over the past year or so we've been meeting regularly with our agency partners and facilitating meetings with different stakeholders in the area to identify the issues and O opportunities which inform the project scope agencies that participate in our monthly project management team meetings are representatives from both counties both cities and mindat the other stakeholders we've engaged have been Metro Transit Sentry College FedEx and the public Washington County's approach for engaging the public on our large Transportation projects includes three phases first an initial listening session a second round of sharing [10:40] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: options and lastly presenting a single option recommendation to move forward I'm excited to report that over the last year in terms of Engagement meetings we've had nine project management team meetings with our agency partners two public openhouse events two meetings with FedEx leadership two meetings with Century College leadership and two popup style events with Century College staff faculty and students we will focus our material today on the content shared in the second round of Engagement which includes some of the major Corridor improvements which are responding to the initial feedback received from our project stakeholders at our first public open house because of our limited time [11:26] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: tonight we'll walk through some EX from our design Alternatives that focus on major components of improvements to the corridor this doesn't mean that other areas along 120 in this stretch will not be improved as a part of the project we're planning for end to- endend pavement reconstruction additional pedestrian facilities and additional infrastructure to serve Transit service along the corridor throughout the entire project area so starting at the North End of the corridor at the intersection of Century Avenue in County Road E County Highway 12 and Wildwood Road which is by CVS Caribou Marathon um just for these slides it's of note that there is a little keynote Legend somewhere on the slides you can see in the green circle [12:13] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: where we're at that helps with wayf finding the project Alternatives that were presented to the public and project stakeholders respond to feedback received on intersection safety and pedestrian accommodations we presented both a roundabout inter section control change and a traffic signal that would be similar to what's out there today but we'd look into the signal timing to optimize signal phasing you'll notice that both options show enhanced pedestrian facilities which would tie into the existing pedestrian Network that exists today as we transition further south on the corridor again we're kind of jumping around so now we are at the southernmost [12:59] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: Century College access which is adjacent to the residential area of the corridor on both the wiper Lake and mamei side you'll see that we're proposing either a new roundabout or a traffic signal at this intersection which would replace the existing side street stop control this intersection was the hottest topic for intersection control opportunities that we heard with our first round of public engagement we're excited for the opportunity that a traffic signal or roundabout could provide to the unique intersection needs resulting from Century colleges traffic patterns both Alternatives would also improve pedestrian [13:46] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: connectivity before we get into the slide I'd just like to note that the orientation of these views has now shifted so now North is to the right and you can see same with the keynote um now we're just showing the legend as as right to the north as well generally speaking along the project Corridor the roadway capacity between intersections is proposed to actually be similar to the existing condition with our project except for in the residential area of the corridor between Long Lake Road and County Road D and the southern Century College intersection we were just at responding to feedback we heard in our first round of Engagement about speeding and traffic capacity the project team is eval ating two alternative adjacent to the residential [14:33] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: area either a four lane divided roadway or a three Lane section with a center left turn lane both Concepts show new pedestrian facilities on either sides of the road which we heard are especially important for Century college students walking from the bus stop to school at Long Lake Road as the project team weighs these options for the roadway section we're thinking about private property impacts maintenance cost and future development specifically on the mamei side in this area moving south our design concept keeps a traffic signal at County Road D in Long Lake Road with the primary [15:20] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: Improvement differences from the existing condition being additional storage capacity for FedEx trucks leaving in the morning on the East leg in response to the public feedback about splitting the eastbound through let's see if I can point at it here I don't know it doesn't show up on the TV I apologize on the West Side um responds to the public feedback about splitting the eastbound through and eastbound right turn movements on the west leg adjacent to Speedway there to reduce [15:55] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: delay so what did we hear from the public in our project stakeholders on these details we received unanimous feedback on support for the multimodal improvements responders were interested in the proposed balance of traffic capacity flow and safety excuse me flow and improved access we've heard consistent feedback on improved intersection safety Transit accommodations continue to be a Hot Topic along this Corridor and as mentioned we're working closely with Metro transit to consider the Rider experience for local bus users lastly when presenting these Concepts we did receive questions regarding property Acquisitions and construction Logistics which we will of course address after we establish a [16:43] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: preferred alternative concept our team is still evaluating the Alternatives based on Project stakeholder input so if the council has additional feedback either to share tonight or via our online engagement tools there is a QR code on this slide and then a website link on all of our slides tonight we certainly wel welcome your feedback so where are we at with the design process with our project stakeholder feedback in hand our next step for the project is to identify a preferred alternative concept we will pref present this preferred alternative recommendation to the public and come back to council for municipal consent we'll then move into final design and [17:29] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: property Acquisitions as needed in 2025 and 2026 and we're currently planning for 2027 construction to meet our funding requirements with that our project team will now take any questions [17:42] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank you Miss Kowski um I don't have any questions before I throw to the council I just have one comment I like roundabout so I to the extent we can work those in I think those are effective and I guess I do have a question do you find that those are safer um and then part two is Connie Road E that Corridor that's a pretty busy intersection is a roundabout something that's going to bottleneck or can that accommodate that and I'm see you looking at colleagues so feel free to phone a friend if you need to [18:03] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: yes mayor I do believe that Kelsey Larson our traffic engineer will be better suited to answer that question than I will thank you [18:18] **Kelsey Larson (Traffic Engineer)**: good evening yeah I'm Kelsey larison traffic engineer on this project uh so your first question uh was pertaining to safety of roundabouts um I would say it definitely depends on how many lanes there are we are looking at a single Lane roundabout up at the North that County Road E that is a location that we do see um issues today with the current signalized intersection um compared to other signalized intersections Statewide it is operating outside that normal range so we anticipate um a roundabout to improve safety at that location great thank you yeah [18:41] **Mayor Dan Larson**: all right Council any questions council member edberg [18:48] **Council Member Edberg**: thank you mayor um so what was the feedback from the public in your uh engagement section sessions around um roundabouts versus stoplights and uh stoplight controls [19:03] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: mayor council member thank you for the question so as you can imagine when you mentioned the word roundabout there's essentially two ends of the spectrum right there's people that are super gung-ho we've had people that um share personal stories of traveling in Europe up and seeing roundabouts before they were even here at our events and then we also say you know absolutely not in in my neighborhood on this Corridor I would say um for the County Road E at the northern portion of the corridor the feedback was overwhelmingly positive I would say even amongst the [19:50] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: project management team we hadn't thought of that initially as a potential solution and when people saw that concept to come come together both the agency staff and Community were like wow yeah that you know that really could be a solution there I could see how that could help um with some of the issues we're seeing today I would say at the South Century College access it's more balanced feedback so we're seeing um different positives that could come from a traffic signal um the same as different positives or negatives on both traffic signal or roundabout um at South Century College and I would say that that's reflected actually in our agency conversations as well is that um there's there's good reasons for for both [20:37] **Council Member Edberg**: options okay so um when your colleague just spoke about the um e and Century intersection the north potential roundabout that we were just discussing she said it was operating outside of norms does that mean it's more dangerous than other other locations I'm not not sure how to interpret the professional language you used [21:00] **Kelsey Larson (Traffic Engineer)**: yeah so we look at um we mot has I guess Statewide averages of what you can expect for the number of crashes to be at an intersection and this has more crashes than normal so yeah more dangerous I guess is what we're we're seeing a more higher likelihood of crashes at this location than we would expect and the idea is [21:23] **Kelsey Larson (Traffic Engineer)**: that the roundabout would be a safer option especially if one uh one Lane uh in the roundabouts at that intersection we also have a number of egresses getting in and out of Speedway getting in and out of other places it's a modestly busy SE intersection and a couple of those are relatively close to the intersection H what's the thinking on how we prevent backing up folks coming around the intersection wanting to get off at one or more of those locations what's what's the thinking there [21:51] **Kelsey Larson (Traffic Engineer)**: yeah so with a roundabout were' able to really slow traffic really you have to slow down um coming into the approach um and I would say that it works out pretty well uh you can see that some of the axises closest to the roundabout would be restricted to turning right only so they could only turn right in to the business and right out um but really with the signal uh you're going to have actually typically more queuing with people stopped waiting for the light really this location works well for a roundabout because the volumes are pretty well balanced on each of the roadways um kind of allowing for equal queuing and ease of of making the movements at the roundabout [22:45] **Council Member Edberg**: okay thank you so I if I could go back to miss karowski so um my understanding of your description is that if you're traveling [22:56] **Council Member Edberg**: north from 694 under at least some of the concern for Lane for the first portion of that certainly through Long Lake Road and uh conro D that intersection um maintaining that through the residential stretch that follows that and then moving uh keeping about the same capacity in in roadway structure as you get uh in the vicinity of uh of the college and and continuing North did I inter did I understand your comments correctly [23:25] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: mayor council member I apologize we don't have a good graphic that kind of puts it all together it's really difficult to get one mile onto one slide for you tonight um but yes so starting if we're coming north from Century or from 694 excuse me it would [23:43] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: maintain the four lane south of County Road D and Long Lake Road and then today um there's essentially two Northbound lanes that one is the straight northbound lane through the residential and one is essentially a a longer right turn lane into Century College that at peak times would back up with students or faculty turning and so right now again North is to the right so we're presenting two different Alternatives so either maintaining that four Lane section which obviously has property impacts Associated to widening the road or um a slightly narrower section with a three lane undivided so essentially one lane in either Direction and then [24:29] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: turning traffic um from both southbound and Northbound in that Middle Lane and then moving as you go farther north it it goes down to pretty much two lanes with uh dividers up to the uh intersection so then we would hit either the roundabout or the new traffic signal and then north of the um South centur College it would maintain a similar section essentially for the rest of the corridor we're seeing the capacity there um is about the same in the future condition as it is in the existing condition it's when we what we're hearing and what we've learned from our data collection efforts is 90% of Faculty staff and students at Century College are heading south or are [25:16] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: coming from 694 the majority are not going north and so we don't see with the growth that they're anticipating we do not see um along with the community growth uh need to you know significantly expand the road way at this portion [25:31] **Council Member Edberg**: got it thank you very much you bet [25:34] **Mayor Dan Larson**: Council any other questions or feedback council member Walsh [25:40] **Council Member Walsh**: thank you Mr Mayor you mentioned uh one of the slides on uh Transit issues do we know does anybody know I know you a met council person here but uh how is the the college being served through uh by transit right now [25:56] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: mayor Mr council member currently the local 219 bus route is um all along this portion of Cent Avenue North of 694 and in our meetings with Metro [26:03] **Erin Karowski (Washington County)**: Transit they have shared that that's a really popular route from a ridership perspective they don't anticipate that route changing at all in the near to longer term future and so we're working directly with them um on making sure that with our design progression that we're accounting for where they're current stops are but then also what they'd like to see in that you know future more optimal condition as well [26:29] **Council Member Walsh**: and the 219 you said so is that run out of Maplewood Mall and into St Paul or where does that where does that feed from [26:38] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: unfortunately I do not know where where it comes from I apologize we can follow up with that mayor members of the council um I can answer that question for you the 219 as in its current design its current route runs from basically the 3M campus along 94 and Maplewood up [26:50] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: Century Avenue to County Road E um back West on County Road E to mcnight Road MC down then south of mcnight Road in a little bit of a securious route till it goes over to the Maplewood Mall Transit Center [27:06] **Council Member Walsh**: so it sort of ends at Maplewood yeah I guess interesting okay thanks and that is the only active Transit line in white bar Lake right now [27:17] **Mayor Dan Larson**: Council any other questions or feedback just to cancel your vote out I hate runouts as mentioned mayor there is there's generally a far ends of the spectrum on the topic are we voting on [27:35] **Mayor Dan Larson**: roundabouts I'm Pro roundabout Pro roundout I've got some time to twist your arm a little bit I'll get you all right so we look forward to a continued conversation on this all right thank you very much for your presentation we appreciate it all right item 6A 2024 pavment Rehabilitation project assessment Ro Mr Copy [28:13] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: may members of the council uh so tonight is our last uh major Milestone of our 2024 uh reconstruction project um so uh this last step is our assessment hearing um so as you know we fund our uh reconstruction projects uh with a [28:20] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: combination of Assessments which is the um benefit to uh AB budding properties and then we also pay with City different uh city funding sources so this is a required hearing by Statute 429 uh before Council can uh consider the assessment role um tonight you will have a hearing um which is required by that statute official notice was uh sent to the all benefiting Property Owners as well as being noticed in the local papers required by the statute um as far as public process goes throughout the project uh we typically started out and and this year we started it out last November uh with a neighborhood me meeting where we gathered input from the residents uh we moved to a public hearing after going through a design process in March of uh [29:08] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: 2024 and then our last major uh public involvement is our assessment hearing tonight where Council will consider the assessments and um residents will have an opportunity to uh speak for or against them um so just as a reminder for our pavment rehab project we had two areas uh we had our first area was a neighborhood uh generally a residential neighborhood north of Birch Lake Avenue West of bald eagal Avenue just west of the city hall here um the blue shows full payment Rehabilitation that's where we go and take uh generally leave the curb in place but do repairs uh sidewalk repairs things like that and completely replace the uh payment a lot of the payments as uh I've uh mentioned in the [29:54] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: past are were put in at a time where they were quite quite thin and and did not last the uh uh time that we had hoped and uh so we took all that payment out reshaped the gravel and uh redid it uh the areas showing in red were areas that never had curbing gutter they weren't built to that Urban section that we've trying to uh get all our roadways in town to so those were uh full reconstruction where we added curbing gutter as well as full payment uh replacement storm sewers needed and other utility repairs so that uh and then the other area and we kind of forget about this area cuz it was kind of in and out in in a very short period of time is uh uh Sport Center Drive south of County Road 96 uh there a [30:39] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: couple of uh private properties and then it led into the uh City Sports Center so that was the second area and that was a uh full payment replacement the uh curb was generally in good shape and just uh some minor repairs there so that is the extent of the uh 2024 Street project um so the improvements again like I said spot curb repairs are new curb in the reconstruct area sidewalk we replac a a very narrow sidewalk along Wood Avenue got that up to 88 standards I did uh storm sewer and other uh water sewer repairs I will note that big part of going into these uh areas is to look at uh private Water and Sewer Services um as far as the city of Whitebear lake is [31:26] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: concerned we are residents own their water and sewer services from the main to their homes so they that connection at the main all the way into their basements is theirs so we um try to do what we can to help accommodate repairs things like that uh we do televising of our sewer beforehand uh try to note any uh concerns um in this case from a sewer stpoint uh there was a couple of areas they had combined sewers where we notified the residents that we would uh once we were able to get in there and actually uh dig it up that we would uh uh according to State Plumbing code that we needed to separate those we also gave a an optional um project that residents [32:11] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: can elect to have their sewer wise replaced so that connection to the main to um alleviate any future backups uh and those are typically based on the televising that we do with those lines the other thing that I'll note is um uh according to the epa's lead and copper rule we are required to expose and determine any Le galvanized water services uh you might ask why galvaniz is steel but they have lead connections that are to the typically to the water main um itself so we needed to go and we exposed every water service that we didn't have any records of and in this case we had two that we uh had found that had letter galvanized work with those Property Owners to get those replaced um each of those options for or [32:59] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: options or required um Service Repairs did have an assessment component to it um as well as we work very closely with the private utilities to do any upgrades and things like that so that they minimize any damage to future or the uh new payment in the upcoming years um as far as the assessments go um the assessments uh uh for the Residential Properties it's over a 15-year period um commercial properties a 20-year period uh this year's interest rate maintains is still fairly low at 5.42% um and uh these assessments would be payable on the 2025 taxes um we uh if Council elects to [33:45] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: adopt the assessment role tonight um the residents and Property Owners would have 30 days to pay uh before our City's finance department would certify to the county um so uh where's my last I was going to make a couple of notes here um so um so before we go into the public hearing just want to note that residents do have an opportunity to uh appeal their assessments through a written statement uh this evening um if they so elect to or if Council adopts the assessment role and uh they want to continue that process they would have 30 days to file at District Court uh to uh continue that Appeal on their assessments um I will [34:31] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: also note that um there are opportunities for residents who qualify for certain deferrals uh senior disability or military service uh according to statute that I think contact the engineering department and we would uh we also included that in the correspondence when we uh sent out the uh the assessment notices so they have that option to do that uh um it continues to grow with uh interest but they have the opportunity to defer it uh for up to 30 years um to uh alleviate any Current financial situation so that is an option for property owners who wish to elect to do that um otherwise staff would recommend that Council hold the public or the assessment hearing and [35:16] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: uh consider adoption of the assessment role for the 2024 pavement Rehabilitation project this evening [35:25] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank you Mr Copy at this time I will open it up for a public hearing uh and just dawned on me that after 2 years and 9 months of being mayor and butchering names that have signed up I'm not going to do that anymore I'm just going to say the street address which is easier to pronounce so uh in order of who signed up uh the residents of 1966 Third Street please come up and state your name uh and reiterate your address for the record and you shall be heard [35:54] **Greg Fashingbauer**: I don't I don't blame you for not trying to pronounce my name it's Greg fashing Bower and uh actually I'm not the resident there but I own that home but first of all before I'll try to be quick up here I have a [36:02] **Greg Fashingbauer**: few questions that's not me but uh first of all thank all of you for being here I know this isn't part of your regular schedule I mean especially the mayor mayor and Paul I know I've gotten a lot of communication from you and I appreciate that a lot of times you get stuff aren isn't even signed but you've kept this up to date and uh I I appreciate all the work of all of you because this isn't your normal schedule so thanks for being here so so and the people that showed up thank you to because it's shows some interest and participation but um but um I made a few notes let's see if I can read them um just um um I didn't attend the first meeting I think you said it was back in March and I guess it was one in the fall you said but I didn't tend that I had a now [36:47] **Greg Fashingbauer**: I've got allergies but I had a a fever and stuff so I didn't want to come up here wher every El was going to be so I I would have per pert to attend that and I'm not here to complain or judge or file anything but I just want to get a few things clarified um and so um read my notes real quick okay and I'm talking this is a home that I own 966 Third Street it's between c um balago and uh Campbell and uh bought it probably 1976 I'm guessing and my wife and I lived there for about 20 years and then we separated and unfortunately for her she got breast cancer at 35 and so I bought I bought her out of the house house but I let her lived there for many years and I paid the taxes St once a while she give so it [37:32] **Greg Fashingbauer**: wasn't a rental for me it was actually so it has deteriorated so I apologize to the people here we're going to get it fixed up and and the people on the street it's this I don't know how these woodpeckers peck toes in that hard sighting but I I ordered I've got some cement sighting coming if they get through that they can I'm going to abandon they can have it but so we'll get it rooked and get it fixed up before before uh you know shortly I I've uh had a couple deaths in the family I'm dealing with probate so it's and hot weather and I do Market Fest I do a charity thing there so it's taken up a lot of time but as far as the questions concerning this project I guess um I I think probably I was going to ask why that street was targeted but I think probably it goes back to maybe I'm guessing 1985 we uh they had did it redid that [38:17] **Greg Fashingbauer**: street there and I remember getting the assessment and they said and this is just a point I'm not complaining we can't go back and do anything but I remember they said we're going to get cement they were assessed for cement curving not Tire curving and uh and uh anyway the assessment but then when they were they were running maybe over budget or behind and I went out there and talked to the fellow and they because they're putting down the tar and I said ah I thought we got we were assessed for cementa and they said uh it's the same thing I thought well we know it isn't because as soon as the sun came out and people drove on it flatten out but so it's not a big deal but I mean it's just I'm glad that you guys got the cemented this time and I didn't have to go out and talk to somebody about the tower so because it's got to be a tough job to keep this thing I mean I think originally mine was assessed [39:02] **Greg Fashingbauer**: for uh back in March when it came out 5500 now it's going to be close to 7,000 so I don't know how you keep track of all this stuff and keep it in the budget it's just got to be a terrific challenge for you so I appreciate it but uh one question I do have regarding that is that based on because I have a devil out there is that based on per footage so much per footage I'm not talking about side streets they're computered differently but the ones between that are running between Campbell and is that so much a foot is that how it is sure [39:35] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: Mr crappie uh mayor members of the council so the city's assessment policy so there were uh we always do as we uh get into our final assessment role uh we work with a an independent appraiser who reviews our assessment roles uh make suring that we're um applying the city's assessment policy um fairly adequately [39:49] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: and and in accordance with that assessment policy there were a few uh as we obiously we're dealing with as you mentioned we deal with hundreds of numbers on these spreadsheets and uh we always uh double check everything and there was a few that um had gotten entered in at um a straight 100 ft and they the assessment policy uh as it is written is by front footage so uh we adjusted those to reflect the actual front footage of those properties [40:17] **Greg Fashingbauer**: yeah I think I think I have two lots I long time ago I figured out I think they like 63 feet a lot foot a lot if I remember but that's a long I don't my mind that's a long time ago that I looked at that but so in other words if someone had a 63 foot lot and I have double that they would pay half as much it's not it's how [40:35] **Greg Fashingbauer**: about is it based on now like I say it hasn't been homesteaded so is that going to affect it I mean uh it's not a rental they sent me a thing saying that your rental it wasn't a rental I I paid all the tax Insurance you lived there for free and I that doesn't matter that's just it wasn't never rented I never was an income property for me otherwise i' been fixing it up as it went long but sure [41:06] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: Mr Copy is the homestead affect that uh so Mays the council the uh the assessments look at the property itself it does not look at whether it's Homestead or not [41:17] **Greg Fashingbauer**: okay okay okay that's I just want and I would have looked this stuff up online but um I had a Macbook and that's the only computer I had and I was filling the tub with water and guess what I dropped it in there so it didn't work too well after that don't drop them in there but I've got another one ordered in anyway okay I appreciate that [41:22] **Greg Fashingbauer**: because that that helps me clarify that um and this is for other people mainly I just didn't it said interest is charged but if if it goes into the first day of the next year then it's it's no matter when you paid it off you'd be charged interest for that whole year is that did I understand that right um you know what I mean it said uh sure [41:59] **City Attorney**: I'm not I'm going to pay it off I plan on paying it off in 30 days but I mean for those people I I I know I've talked to other people and I just want to be able to help them out and say hey yeah if you don't pay it off if you pay it off the second of the January you got to pay interest for that whole sure yeah I think our City attorney can Enlighten us a little bit on on that yeah sure thank you mayor and Council um this this this is a statutory provision that provides that uh interest will acre [42:09] **City Attorney**: um for the first 30 days after adoption you can pay it interest free as I think uh city engineer copy has said um but then once day 31 comes you're going to be paying interest through December 31st of this year but that's only until November 15th of this year after that it will um again pursuant to statute um any payments after that will have an interest acred through December 31st of the following year so it it's quite a look ahead but um that's what the legislature decided to to do with that [42:47] **Greg Fashingbauer**: yeah that's that's what I thought every I thought I understand that it seems you know it seems like any other loan you take off most of them you pay it off but here you're going to get it's kind so I'll let those people know that talk to me that hey yeah you want to be aware of that because it's kind of a penalty in a sense and I'm not fault to anybody here for it's just like I say it's the way that it's written up but [42:55] **Greg Fashingbauer**: okay so thank you for the clarification try to hurry here um yeah I no I um I think that's all I have this doesn't affect this is a state I don't know this house went from being value to 265,000 now it's 316 there estimating I don't know what you know maybe I shouldn't patch the holes but but uh okay that and that's those are I guess basically the things I I wanted to clarify but again I want to thank all of you because it's got to be a daunting task I know you appreciate all the information you sent out and like I say had I had my not given my computer of bath I would have uh looked it up online and probably saved from coming in here but I do appreciate you and the mayor and everyone else all the work you do it's it's got to be a daunting task and and you've been very informative and and uh you know that's that says a lot about you so thank you [43:41] **Greg Fashingbauer**: very much thank you Mr fashion [43:46] **Mayor Dan Larson**: all right my neighbors now residents at 1961 Third Street would you like to speak to this uh can I speak right here uh why don't you step up to the mic and state your name and address just so we have it for the record yes NE [44:10] **Terry Rodri**: hi there my question I'm Terry rodri this my husband Jerry um we have an assessment right now at about 9,000 and we're because we at we're on the corner so we have that long assessment if if that's correct um just wonder about the interest rates if we connect this to our taxes will we still be able to hold the same interest rate over the years [44:31] **Paul Kopka (City Engineer)**: I believe the answer is yes but I'll defer to the more learned ones whether it's Mr crappie or M kinf but I believe it mayor members of the council as far as the interest rate goes yes that is the interest rates interest rate that is adopted uh is maintained over the life of the assessment okay it's fixed yeah it's a fixed assessment [45:04] **Terry Rodri**: is that the way I was reading this that five or 5.42 whatever it is interest rate is that once a year or is that every month [45:15] **Kerri Kinser (Finance Director)**: I believe it's an annualized interest rate um so it's just like a mortgage or car loan it's not anything it's the same amortization schedule as any other kind of financing um so there's no mystery in terms of assessment financing from anything else whether it's a mortgage or a car loan okay and who do who do I get a hold of I mean if I want to make extra payments to get it paid off say in a year instead of over 15 who do I get a hold of to um to yeah I think Miss kiner can shed some light on kind of the the ins and outs of that Mr Mayor and members of the council when you once we turn the special assessment over to Ramsey County then you would work with Ramsey County to pay that off and they track that so we collect the payments up until November 15th or yeah up until November then we turn over the assessment any payments after that point would be um to Ramsey County okay and we'll get that when we get the uh information about that we get [45:58] **Terry Rodri**: information about who to contact exactly right okay all right thank you [46:11] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank you thank you all right the residents or at least Property Owners of 4711 Campbell Avenue question okay all right that's the last name on my list um that doesn't mean you can't speak would anyone else like to speak to this issue before I close the public hearing seeing none I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council Council we have a resolution before us uh adopting the assessment what would we like to [46:38] **Council Member Edberg**: do I'll move approval [46:42] **Mayor Dan Larson**: great I have have a motion a second any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries the resolution is passed thank you all for coming all right item seven nothing scheduled item 8A the property acquisition uh Mr lindall whenever you're ready [47:04] **Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director)**: mayor members of the council the EM before you tonight is consideration of a resolution to approve a purchase agreement for the property that's located at the south east corner of Belair Avenue in Spruce Lane just to the north of the County Road E and Bel Air intersection um is currently owned by Hammer Northeast residents who owns the [47:26] **Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director)**: the larger property as you can see on the uh the the property in red is the one the city the city's considered purchasing and Hammer owns the larger property in the middle of this block at 2539 County Road E um the property um was offered to the city uh by Hammer because they have no longer have need for this portion of their parking lot and staff has done an analysis of the zoning requirements for parking BAS based on their Hammer's current use of the property and the and the parking that they have in the section is also not required uh under the zoning code standards um the city is interested in this [48:14] **Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director)**: property uh because it's adjacent to the property that the city already owns at the uh North Eastern corner of Bel Air and County Roode at 2511 just south of the property in question um the purchase is consistent with uh a number of the city's plans including the comprehensive plan the most recently adopted strategic plan and the uh County Road E Corridor action plan worked on uh last year um hammer has agreed to the purchase price and conditions that are detailed in the purchase agreement that was presented to you tonight uh staff recommends using uh funds from the city's Economic [48:59] **Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director)**: Development Fund to purchase this property um and with that I'd stand for questions [49:09] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank you Mr Lindell um before we get to questions I'm just going to offer my my comments and first compliments to staff who work diligently to negotiate what I think was a fair price on this I know a lot of back and forth and hard work went into it also compliment the council who for those that are in the audience or listening at home don't have the benefit of lots and lots of discussion at work sessions um we we discussed discuss this at length and um the reason I ultimately support it and I think most of the council does as well is uh this is going to make what already is a piece of land that the city owns by by inquiring this lot a much more attractive option for future land use and development um I wouldn't say [49:44] **Mayor Dan Larson**: our current lot is awkward but it's at a a difficult a difficult size that the addition of this additional land um will make it much more viable whether it's land or commercial or whatever I also think uh we're getting it for a fair price and it makes sense and to the taxpayers who ultimately are footing the bill for this this isn't like we're just spending $149,000 and it's out the window I think we'll more than recoup that in whatever we're not going to hold on to it and be land barar forever this is part of what I hope will be a relatively uh short turnaround and uh a better and higher use for that that piece of land that it currently sits as a parking lot and a open lot so I fully support this I would urge the council to adop it uh and the purchase agreement and with that [50:30] **Mayor Dan Larson**: council do we have any questions um or comments or a motion to approve the purchase agreement [50:38] **Council Member Walsh**: I'll make a motion to approve [50:41] **Mayor Dan Larson**: I have a motion a second any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries the uh property acquisition is approved thank you all right item 8B the 2025 preliminary budget and tax levy Miss Crawford whenever you're ready [51:04] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: thank you uh mayor members of the council um we will go over um tonight the 2025 budget schedule fund balance analysis uh strategic plan [51:16] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: alignment the preliminary budget the preliminary tax levy and then um just some estimated uh tax levy impacts um to start excuse me to start out the 2025 budget schedule we are at uh September 10th tonight um where you will consider the preliminary tax levy um and establish the truth and Taxation hearing date uh which we are proposing um as SE uh December 10th so city council met in two work sessions in June and in August uh to review the preliminary um budget and then we that work will continue um later this fall um with our other uh our other funds but tonight's mostly disc to discuss um the [52:01] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: general fund which is our Levy tax levy supported um fund um so when we when we create the budget each year um there's a there's a process that we um that requires us to analyze two fund balance related percentages um and you know the the budget that I I'm going to present tonight meets those fund um those fund balance analysis so the state auditor recommends um we keep a minimum of 5 months of operating costs or 42% on hand um accessible to cover unanticipated costs um we're at we will be at 41.8 to9 um so just slightly below Roundup and it's at 42 um and then to track the fund [52:48] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: balance to ensure funds are available to pay claims in the first half of each year um and that uh the anticipated fund balance for that is uh will be 59.86 um these these numbers are just slightly higher than what was presented to you at the work session because the we did a budget adjustment um since last August or excuse me since a month ago um the budget presented tonight um does align with the Strategic plan recently adopted um in February I believe of this year these are the core strategies um just to to remind the city council and um to share with the public um these are the core strategies of our strategic plan I'm not going to read all of them and I know it's a lot that's [53:33] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: kind of my point right is that um the budget again that we uh have brought forward tonight um meets the following goals and objectives identified in the city's strategic plan so um again uh you are seeing something that that that does align uh with the trajectory of where Council has said we should go um so notable Revenue changes in the proposed or preliminary 2025 budget um include um arpa Aid and Public Safety local government Aid that was used to support operations um previously and up until 2024 has concluded um at the end of this year so we don't have that anymore to rely on like every other community um [54:19] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: we'll be going through that same thing um LGA or again local government aid funds um have been retained in the general fund to reduce the proposed tax levy increase um half of a uh about $500,000 DNR grant for shade tree um funding to remove Emerald ashore and tree replacement has been included in the budget uh as a revenue you'll see that also is offset as an expenditure on the next slide too same with the Minnesota Department of Public Safety Pathways to policing Grant um has been included as a revenue and expenditure um so you know of course those two net each other out but there are there are notable changes so we did want to call those out um our school resource officer [55:05] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: reimbursement from wiper Lake Area Schools has been increased um because we have added a third SRO for this year at uh their request and you have already authorized that um and they are actually in school already um interest revenues that's a snapshot um you know of uh of the average cash balance as as of June 30th that's the process that we follow every single year um and then the there's a reduction of the pavment management fund transfer um of of support for engineering operations previously included in the pavment management fund um at $100,000 2025 is the final transfer and that will be concluded um I know that was important to uh to council [55:51] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: that we've been working on um over the last several years so that's excited that we are uh we are nearing end when we look at notable expenditure changes um salary adjustments per the adopted pay plan including uh benefit factors um are notable changes um as well as a 3% cost of living adjustment uh we do currently have three labor agreements currently open uh for negotiation right now uh the increased uh increase in cost for employee health insurance benefits and uh we did get to bring that down a little bit from what the city council saw in the work session um staff training is a notable expenditure change that continues you [56:36] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: know to to increase I won't say significantly but appropriately um for mostly Public Safety and crisis Communications notably for next year routine operating Tech costs related to software systems or servers and it support uh we have additional Personnel added that I'll go to um in a different slide and then Emerald dashboard tree Replacements funded through that DNR Grant and then again that Pathways to policing um Grant from Department of Public Safety so um the 2025 preliminary tax levy reflects a 14.85% um or 1.7 U million increase over the 2024 Levy um we have broken out on the screen [57:24] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: there how that breaks down to make up that um Levy increase so it's three it's just over 3% for operating expenditures that were previously supported by the public safety LGA uh which includes one firefighter paramedic um that position has been filled um and now we need to account for that uh salary in the 25 budget um 7.78% of the increases for General operations including personnel and benefits 1.33% is for debt service related to the 2024 Street reconstruction project that we just talked about and then 2.73% um is for the following new [58:09] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: positions two of the positions have already been filled um again one school resource officer and then a half a year of the building maintenance technician position um that position was new in 2024 we hired that position we we were authorized to hire in july24 therefore we need to add another half year to make that a full year um in 2025 um then this budget also includes the addition of one additional firefighter paramedic and one um communication specialist position um that you'll see the DraStic difference in uh communication Specialists that the cost of that um that is because several other [58:57] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: funds um will assist payment um in Sharing um the cost of that uh employee given the the benefit that that employee will bring to every other department so that is a portion um of that the 64,500 is what the general fund um would take care of and truthfully it is covered by um our Peg fees and franchise fees but no matter how you Dice it it is an increase to the levy uh when we look at uh estimated property tax levy impacts this is a snapshot of a a document that is or an attachment that's in your packet um so just highlighting um highlighting that attachment the taxable market value grew [59:45] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: by 5.39% the net tax capacity grew by 2.62% um as I said the preliminary tax l is uh um potentially going to be growing by 14.85% um but if you're if a property if a if the value of a property did not change um a property would feel an 11% uh increase to city um it wouldn't feel like 14 it would feel like 11 um I'm happy to go into further detail uh if anyone has questions about that the city um tax capacity rate will be uh 30. [1:00:29] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: 38% at this Levy um so when we look at uh you know a dollar right and this is $1 in in in a pie chart form um several entities do tax um properties so for every property dollar property tax dollar paid approximately 21% uh 21 cents excuse me is collect Ed by the city um the remainder then is divided amongst Ramsey and Washington counties the school district and other governmental agencies like met Council and the mosquito district and Watershed districts so for every dollar that you pay in property taxes 21 cents of that goes um to the [1:01:17] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: city um the meeting in 2024 the median home value in White Bear Lake is $334,800 um and so for 2025 that property um would would pay uh $965 in City uh for the entire year in city taxes um again homes are valued the valuation of a home is determined by the county um auditor it's not determined by the city um some people don't quite understand that um but it the city doesn't doesn't assign values to property but um the median home value did increase um over the past year but for [1:02:03] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: $965 um next year the you know this property will continue to receive an excellent quality of life in White Bear Lake with 247 police access uh response 24/7 fire you know Street lighting Street plowing Parks um access to the city council Etc and this pie chart just shows how our um budget is is divided up um so you can see a significant portion of of the city's budget goes to um Public Safety Services that's nothing new um but both um fire and police uh that do that dollar amount has increased from um from the previous year General government actually did go down um from [1:02:49] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: 2024 and then everything else saw a slight increase and again happy to provide you know some compar but for the sake of time tonight um I didn't bring 24 against 25 um so there you know are additional details in the in the city council packet with the budget the fund general fund summaries for revenues and expenditures as well as um tax comparison information from prior years on on U properties that the city council has traditionally tracked um but staff does recommend the city council adopt um the attached resolution approving the preliminary tax levy um the tax levy must be set no the the preliminary Levy [1:03:36] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: must be set no later than September 24th um that is the next city council meeting you can adopt it tonight if you wish um which is what we traditionally have done the city council will hold uh the truth and Taxation hearing and adopt a final tax levy um at the December 10 city council meeting and just a reminder to the city council and and to the public for anyone who doesn't know the preliminary Levy uh the city council May reduce the tax levy in December but they may not set it uh they may not increase it once a preliminary Levy is set so it is not uncommon for um you know City councils to adopt a levy and um for it to decrease in December but it may not increase per state [1:04:23] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: statute um so with that I will stand for any questions the council may have [1:04:36] **Mayor Dan Larson**: thank you m Crawford I just want to reiterate again because it's worth noting that again this is a preliminary budget and by creature of state law we have to set the ceiling um and the goal would be I think a members of the council would join me on this over the next three months we're going to continue to have discussions and sharpen our pencils as much as we can and fine-tune this uh to a budget that we can ultimately consider in December but again this sets the ceiling uh of what it uh the seiling of what the tax levy could be so with that council do we have questions uh from Miss Crawford or comments on the preliminary budget if not I would hold on give me a [1:05:11] **Mayor Dan Larson**: second um sure go ahead please council member Hughes [1:05:14] **Council Member Hughes**: um Mr Mayor just so I'm understanding are we voting on the tax levy or we voting on the budget cap like am I voting on [Music] 14.85% Levy it's the Levy right Mr Crawford [1:05:44] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: mayor council member Hughes so you are setting the preliminary tax levy which is a portion of the revenue that is that comes in into the general fund um budget the final budget um the budget will be adopted in December so you're not adopting a budget um but you we are required to set our um our preliminary Levy either tonight or um by September 24th [1:06:17] **Council Member Hughes**: so what I'm saying tonight is I agree to this amount of money that I would ask for Ramsey County to provide for us through their taxing process this is the the amount that we would certify to property taxes through Ramsey Washington counties yes so this is not actually budget like line item like I [1:06:27] **Council Member Hughes**: agree to spend XYZ on a truck and ABC on a building not at this point okay we couldn't we can't increase this is the hot this is as the mayor said this ceiling so it's a piece of the budget and in December when we talk about the budget am I are we then like line eming like it is only x amount for the Lake Conservation District and Y amount for I'm just looking on the thing on these specific things or is it or is money fungible within those amounts and it's still just I'm agreeing to the the levy amount [1:07:05] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: uh it it's there are a few different resolutions one is setting that in December one is adopting the budget another is certifying the tax levy um so you're doing both in that December meeting [1:07:22] **Mayor Dan Larson**: okay Carrie do you want to miss ginar you want to elaborate at all okay okay okay so here here's kind of why I was asking because we go through this every year and I get really confused and then you have these great presentations and I'm like of course this makes sense and yet I sit here and I'm agreeing to a 14% tax increase again and last year's was a 12 20 20 20 205 and the year before that was 23.2 23.2 and and part of this is the public service building which we knew but um I'm kind of tired of it and so what I guess I'm I'm wondering you know what what am I allowed to do what are we allowed to do can I just say I don't want it to be 14% [1:08:02] **Council Member Hughes**: I want it to be 11 is that something that has to be written down how do I bring that up as like a as an idea for other people to agree or disagree with [1:08:14] **Mayor Dan Larson**: uh well I'll take a step at that as a matter of process we have two weeks to we have to approve whatever the ceiling will be so if we don't approve it then that's a problem for us um if it's your desire to to bring it down significantly I think there will be multiple other opportunities to do that because we're not approving the the the well the budget or the tax levy at this point we're approving the preliminary which means it has no weight of law until we actually finalize it and I think through [1:08:49] **Mayor Dan Larson**: work sessions and then in December um we'll ultimately have to approve something but I mean strictly speaking if if you don't even want to move forward if you want a lower ceiling then Now's the Time to do it [1:09:03] **Council Member Hughes**: and would that be like an amendment or I mean what is that this is where I got all wrong with the last time I opened my mouth [1:09:12] **Council Member Walsh**: yeah Council can help I mean we're looking at a resolution tonight so if you look at the resolution the it is it is lined out our general fund uh number is 113 that's probably the number you would amend and just giving you advice I mean the other ones are more specific and much smaller and probably more difficult to you demend those ones you can't demend your could even amend those so yeah so the general fund the general fund number you can see [1:09:36] **Council Member Walsh**: that they all add up to 13.7 then we get this fiscal disparity uh money back which maybe M Crawford could explain fiscal disparities to us no I'm just kidding you we we won't do that tonight because I you know thank uh so the final number net net Levy 12.4 which is really the number we're proving tonight the 12.4 so you'd really have to move to amend the resolution on that 11353 number uh to to do that and as part of that discussion mayor council member Walsh council member Hughes I would I would ask you to identify uh specifically what uh you're directing staff to cut in [1:10:22] **Council Member Walsh**: order to get that um [1:10:25] **Mayor Dan Larson**: member edberg [1:10:31] **Council Member Edberg**: thank you Mr Mayor so this is an interesting conversation completely legitimate it's why we're here MH so um in one sense the simpler way to think about I think is we're dealing with the revenue side of our budget here we're not the these this um resolution says we think our fin IAL needs are such that we require X dollars to be um collected from property tax owner property owners in our city and it's that's the revenue side of our conversation once we set this number that will be used for the truth and Taxation hearings which give people [1:11:17] **Council Member Edberg**: an estimate of what they can be uh expected to be paying if there are no changes um and so that gives them that arms them with the opportunity to engage with us and other uh taxing jurisdictions so to to some extent the impact of our of a decision to reduce the maximum Levy uh only says we're we're not going to take more money from other places but the other decisions that then become necessary are so because this is a revenue action the expenditure action is the one that we take up in December when we approve the budget and as we've gone through all [1:12:05] **Council Member Edberg**: numerous work study sessions and so forth we've been going along with the idea that um the the primary changes are the one that the city manager identified those are the things that we're adding and there's a couple of subtractions of revenues but it's like we could deficit spend we could we could maintain our level of EXP expenditures and borrow um through a number of of options or we could have that conversation about what are we going to do less of now those are the budget conversations that we would have in December and I I'm going to kind of guess that we can't do one without doing the other we can't reduce our revenues without reducing our expenditures because I don't know that we got the uh [1:12:51] **Council Member Edberg**: yeah we could we could borrow enough money for a while but I'm not sure That's The Prudent thing that any of us would would choose to do so it's like when city manager says uh identify what we're not going to do that's the conversation that we would want we would need to have before December um because if we're going to Levy less this is our biggest source of general fund resource if we're going to say we don't we're not going to raise as much then what are we going to not do and I think that becomes the obligation of those who are want to argue for a reduced tax impact that's the the place to say okay and here are my favorite gooses that I'm going to uh um to kill in order to us having this outcome so [1:13:38] **Council Member Edberg**: that's kind of time [1:13:46] **Mayor Dan Larson**: frames council member Walsh [1:13:48] **Council Member Walsh**: thank you just a couple questions uh maybe for Miss Kinser um and I I keep getting this I keep getting confused by the we we've been adding two firefighters a year for several years trying to build up to that that level that we've kind of decided as the target uh to run a full-time fire department we we added two I got to go back maybe two budgets ago two budgets ago we added two last budget we added two and then we added three right and you're you're seeing see this is where we get so confused we added two in the budget in the last budget we proposed and then you've got one in this budget that says it's already paid for so wouldn't that be a third one that we added so okay you're jumping at the microphone to answer so help me explain [1:14:32] **Council Member Walsh**: understand this we're not adding two this year I see two on the sheet one's already paid for how do we pay for that um and then we're adding one more because we're going to stick with two per year if it's already filled it says on the sheet it's already filled so how does how do we add a how do we not add three then if it's already filled [1:14:55] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: mayor council member Walsh the the person the firefighter paramedic on the screen was previously supported funded by Public Safety LGA right so we don't have that Public Safety LGA that was a one-time uh Revenue source so let me let me go backwards we added two we used LGA to pay for one of the two so now yes so now we have to add that p position back [1:15:18] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: in so you're paying for two next year receiving One new so we're not we're we're falling behind that schedule then we're only adding one this year uh yes the 25 budget is proposing to add one new not two not two because we're paying for we're going to start paying for in the general fund uh to cover the expenses for that one that we added one of the two that we added last year there isn't a third one it's two and now one correct not [1:15:53] **Council Member Walsh**: okay that's if you would like to add two you need to add 124,000 to the tax levy which will increase that above 15% okay I'm glad [1:16:04] **Council Member Walsh**: this is fine I finally understand this I thought that was an extra it's actually just we're actually less we're actually down one on towards our plan and then where just I always keep asking this question how far away are we from uh finishing that c of addition couple more years you [1:16:21] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: that's a great question I think that's that maybe a conversation that the city council and uh Fire Chief and I need to have together uh outside of this meeting we're getting close we have been adding and we're getting close to where he thinks we got first of all we have a combination Department um we still have part-time um firefighters we we plan to have them um so for anyone who's watching I want to clarify that um but we have 18 full-time uh firefighters [1:16:53] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: right now this would be 19 after this hire um 21 was initially the discussion uh I think amongst you know internally or 24 was at that discussion there's you know again that's probably a conversation for a work session when the fire chief can weigh on I I'll just comment then I don't I don't think I would have made that decision that you guys did which it's perfectly fair but I I I would have wanted to stay on track and add to and then absorb the third I guess I'd call it the third or one of the two last year that we used onetime funds for I knew what I was doing we we voted to use onetime funds I thought was great you know use the money when it's there save the taxpayers a dime and then fully knowing that we're going to have to cover the full time [1:17:39] **Council Member Walsh**: full cost of that going forward so that gets AB that gets absorbed uh in the general fund that you bring forward and then I I still would have probably added two I might we can revisit that as we go here towards December um you I understand it cost more yeah I know but like you can't increase the levy after tonight well we can move money around inside that so we can change priorities for sure I'm not I'm not you I wouldn't Advocate to increase the number tonight but there may be some moving around we can do but I'm just I'm just philosophically saying now that I understand what you did I'm not sure I would have done that I would have I would have I think I want to stay on schedule sort of to get to get fully fully staffed in that fire department kind of the way we planned it um but yeah you're right if if we decide tonight then I got to find $14,000 [1:18:25] **Council Member Walsh**: somewhere else uh let me ask about the sort of the um what I consider a surplus at the end of the year sort of we've had this discussion before too you know we we've we've done a good job you've done a good job I'll say that the staff has done a good job or or or not I mean it's one way or the other there's been money left over at the end of these the last few budgets I mean significant money at one year I think I think $900,000 once I'm trying to jump around in minutes here but I think 600,000 that we we concluded I think in the 2024 budget as kind of carry forward I think of it as carry forward to be used in the budget you you you use this language we have a deficit spending kind of situation because we committed to spend x amount of money um but we really don't have [1:19:12] **Council Member Walsh**: that Revenue coming in because we're using the carry forward I I think of it in my head a little differently I think that's not deficit spending because that's a negative thing we certainly have the money we're not committing to anything we can't afford so just I just think in one of one of the things that we we can maybe sharpen the pencil on uh without being too specific on what to cut um we've we've been very cautious we've been very conservative on behalf of the city on behalf of the city's bank accounts and that's a that's a laudable thing um but in the process we're we're getting the maximum amount from the taxpayers and so they're not able to do that like we've been able to do that so that might be one thing we could look at is like and maybe just the question would be what's what's proposed is it proposed to get right down to the number all the way down to zero and then [1:19:58] **Council Member Walsh**: throughout the year just things happen we don't hire a few people we go some salary savings and then interest income goes up we don't have to snow snowplow as much and then we end up with a few hundred thousand on the bottom line I guess philosophically I just do my Phil philosophy uh I think one area we could look at is to is to eyes wide open uh cut it closer um I I know in your position you're saying well we don't want to end up struggling in the last part of the last months of the year and um but if we give you permission to cut it closer that might be a way we could uh uh not raise the levy as much I guess is what I'm saying so Lordi what's the plan today as we look ahead to the budget for 2025 and maybe what's the projection do we have any idea what we're going to end up uh 2024 we're we're sitting here in [1:20:44] **Council Member Walsh**: September it's a little early but [1:20:48] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: so the projection uh is this is the fund balance analysis that we do when we prepare um the budget each year and Miss Kinser please jump in at any point um but the state auditor recommends a minimum of four months of operating costs so that's 42% that our fund balance be at 42% for the next year at the end of December 3124 this year we will be at 41.895150 [1:21:24] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: is to track the fund balance to ensure funds are available to pay claims in the first half of the year um so we're about 59% on that analysis we have been higher in those two percentages in previous years which has allowed us to use some of our the cash on hand the carry forward or the fund balance um I I am not recommending that we use any of that uh next year because we have been relying on that in the previous last couple of years and these percentages don't project us to be at a point where I would recommend uh the council dip into that money again just one one question though the [1:22:12] **Council Member Walsh**: [Music] 41.895150 would be a different dollar amount so it's kind of like the dog chasing the car a little bit as the budget grows that 41% has to grow but if the budget were smaller it' be easier to hit it I just so that's not that's that's fine that's not really my question my question is more just what what do we plan money coming in money going out what do we plan to have on the bottom line not the savings account not the fund balance but for the 2025 budget for what is the what how do you plan you're you're you're we down to the number we we about two bucks left in the account at the end of the year if everything goes right is that what we're planning we always plan we always try to have a balanced budget which which means right down to the number right down right so [1:22:58] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: in 2025 uh the revenues over expenditures is $89 [1:23:04] **Council Member Walsh**: $89 okay that's where I thought I saw that okay but the last few years it's been hundreds of thousands of dollars under meaning then we've needed to use our fund balance to make that no no you're looking at it differently the last few years we have ended the year with an excess we we overshot T to do that and then we use then we use that money forward so uh you and I are never going to think the same on that I know I'm just I'm just budget to actual yeah and I got you know I'm a I'm a musician so yeah you're probably your way is probably better but uh um okay I think that's well was I think I had one [1:23:43] **Council Member Walsh**: well go ahead if there's others I had one more question I thought but I'll think of it well you rais your hand didn't you or not well I was it's it's a useful conversation but I I'm happy happy to let you finish your questions well I don't think I have any other question the only other philosophical thing just to just to play off of council member hughes's question and and Council edberg responded and said or the sort of the city manager you know if you want to if you want to say we're going to take in less money then you have to identify where we're going to cut uh you know there yes that's a good way to do it um there are other entities government entities that that you know we we could also prop sort of an a cross the board cut and let the staff figure that out I there are there are [1:24:28] **Council Member Walsh**: arguments to do both ways I mean we could certainly I could certainly identify don't hire that firefighter don't do the comms director or the comms sorry comm's specialist Comm specialist um that's that's one valid way of doing it but the other way of doing is you know what we we we um we're going to let you guys figure it out the Lev is too big it's too big of a bite out of the taxpayers uh so instead of 12.4 you know live with 12 live with you know 12 million um and then how how you come up with the 461 you might be in a better position to make those decisions than we are uh in terms of micromanaging individual budget decisions now I know a lot of people say cross theboard government budget cuts are irresponsible um and they hit you know and we're not saying every budget gets hit a certain percentage that's [1:25:15] **Council Member Walsh**: sometimes that's proposed like every Department gets a certain amount of cut well that that not might not be responsible but cutting the number overall and letting the staff uh meet that number uh knowing the daily in andout might is is a valid argument I'm not proposing it today I'm just saying I'm kind of have the same Ang this number is very large I mean we got you know the 2022 budget was 8 million the general fund piece Levy we went from 8 to 9.9 and then we did the building you know let's be clear we we built a very very beautiful building that we opened last month um and jumped to 12 12 billion 12 million and now we're jumping 12 to 124 so we we've really grown from 8 to 12 really fast and we can explain it all and it's [1:26:00] **Council Member Walsh**: voted for most of it I think maybe all of it in these years but um you know these are these are Big increases and another one 14.85% another one very large increase thank you for listening [1:26:10] **Mayor Dan Larson**: council member edberg I know you want to weigh in I want to offer some comments on that because go for it mayor in a lot of ways Council Walsh I philosophically agree I I think a couple of things one I think the beauty of local government is that we can in these these preliminary budgeting sessions get a little bit little bit more down in the weeds than we do maybe at the state [1:26:46] **Mayor Dan Larson**: level and certainly at the federal level and what I mean by that is I'm with you 14% And last year 20% and the year before 22% these are huge huge huge increases um but I'll say for the third thirdd budget cycle in a row if there was a marble fountain that we're proposing I'd be the first one to want to cut it so that it's important to get into the weeds and I so one I'm not sure there's a lot of of fluff in the budget to begin with and two while these conversations are good and and I think we'll continue to have them I look at what what the action item before us tonight is not committing to anything other than the ceiling and and for my commitment and I think many of us on the die is to go back and really have those internal discussions I'm not sold on the communications specialist That's one [1:27:33] **Mayor Dan Larson**: item um quite candidly we've got some Spade work to do on on the fire department because our expansion of the fire department is largely predicated on our contract cities which candidly are in question right now um we're we're working through things like that so those are all the discussions that we're going to continue to have before before we actually vote on whether it's 14% or 12% or 8% in December but for tonight we can set we can set the ceiling what I don't like is while philosophically as a governing tool you can say you know what let's just call it a 12% increase for purposes of tonight and say to staff go figure out how to way a way to live within our means the reason I'm the reason I'm hesitant to do that is because we have a at least a fairly [1:28:20] **Mayor Dan Larson**: detailed uh list of items that are substantiating why the increase is [1:28:46] **Mayor Dan Larson**: 14.85% increase in December whether it's 12 whether it's 10 whether it's 13 I don't know but I think we will sharpen our pencils because there are a couple items on there that that we'll have to find- tune in a little bit so I think it's important to understand what stage of the process that we're at um and not get carried away about a symbolic cutting of the proposed Levy uh increase tonight and then handcuffing us later on if we decide there may be some some things that we need to spend money on between now and December so those are my those are my comments council member edber [1:29:35] **Council Member Edberg**: thank you Mr Mayor so I want to speak only to two items that um Mr W uh council member wal raced um want to talk [1:29:44] **Council Member Edberg**: about budget surpluses that we have enjoyed I also want to remind us of some of our cost drivers that have driven these numbers and whether they are large increases or large increases on a historically low base is a whole another Realm of conversation so every year we budget we you can't run a city you can't run a complex organization and and budget it down to the penny or the nickel or the dime not even to the 10 or the 20 or the 100 it's like we have variabilities and so we try and budget the philosophy for the 14 years that I've been here has been that we uh try and use the [1:30:20] **Council Member Edberg**: best judgment that we can that incorporates past past realities here's what we actually paid um we try and incorporate what is the future bringing us and what do we want to change and we try and manage revenues to meet expenses and on the good side staff has done an incredible job in every one of those 14 years so you and two predecessors have brought in almost always there might have been one year when we were Carrie you can May when we didn't achieve a budget Surplus and we achieved that because they brought incredible skill during the management year and they were they adjusted to things that happened so for example some years we've had an [1:31:05] **Council Member Edberg**: extraordinary number of of uh uh employee absences and I'm not not saying it's it's folks that are on on military leave or that retire vacancies turnover and they have managed that in um by not having new people on staff to provide overlap it's like we let that person go and then we try and bring in somebody new I'm not sure that that's a recommended or preferred continuity of service approach but it works from a budget standpoint it saves money and staff has done an incredible job and that's where we end up with our budget surpluses and then every year we get an explicit conversation about so how what are we going to do with that do we just roll it forward we almost always use it [1:31:52] **Council Member Edberg**: to address some other high priority issue so it's like it's not like it was wasted we have an explicit conversation about what's the appropriate use and we're usually talking about six digits and the first one is one two or three now there was a year where we had a revenue recognition issue and we had a conversation about that during the audit presentation where certain revenues were recognized on uh December 30th of uh of a fiscal year so we get a check it has to go into that Year's revenues but it was always expected to be uh supporting expenditures in the subsequent year so you have this blip that says you have this really big Surplus well not really [1:32:38] **Council Member Edberg**: we just got paid early and that money was already scheduled to be spent the next year so we allocated that money to that so this sense of trying to find an even finer harder way of managing budget surplus does not strike me on the to be having um budget differ differentials of two or 300,000 on a annual Bud general fund budget the scale this I think is remarkable and I just don't think that that's a a fruitful place to go looking so I'll set that aside that's my view certainly welcome to to have an alternative view um so there's a whole bunch of other drivers that have driven this now I [1:33:23] **Council Member Edberg**: don't I probably don't REM need to remind any members of the council where we rank for cities of our size we are already down at the bottom the top three or four at the bottom of the per capita tax general fund tax per capita of 30 or 40 other communities like ours now we can have conversations about whether we want or don't want to be near uh like Redwing or Winona or a bunch of others um we are unique in that we have full-time fire and ambulance so that takes that whole rank uh to a the comparables to a smaller number but what has driven our expenditures are not they are things like our expenditures have [1:34:09] **Council Member Edberg**: been too low too long and we are now trying to recognize and uh we couldn't hold it that low that much longer and so things like we were losing employees and couldn't hire police officers or for firemen because we were paying our wages were substantially below uh below Market we did a comparable uh study of comparable wages we adopted that yes our labor costs have gone up and we are now in the middle again we are not at the high end we are barely in the middle we are getting applicants to come to work for us again and we're not losing as many to other folks other places that want to leave we did that in response to actual observed expenditures and what's [1:34:55] **Council Member Edberg**: real on the ground the second thing we've talked numerous times about the number of calls for Public Safety and particularly fire and and ambulance we're now run making almost 5,000 runs a year with a staff that the old volunteer model couldn't sustain we could not get enough folks in time to to tell our residents if you have a heart attack if you have a major health event we're going to have somebody to you in 3 four 5 minutes and because we couldn't we started adding professional staffing we changed our staffing model and you alluded to that whether we we have three shifts or whe you we try and have a number divisible by three so whether that's 18 21 or 24 okay that's what drives it and we've [1:35:43] **Council Member Edberg**: said we need to have get to a rotation that allows us to have coverage throughout the throughout the evening throughout the throughout the full day and we have been adding a healthy amount to ensure our staffing is there now those are just two issues there are a bunch of others yes we have the we have the the the borrowing on uh Street improvements we have the borrowing on uh public facilities all those things are core City functions I don't know that we've paved our streets in Gold so it's like I'm not looking to I don't know where we're going to find that but if somebody wants to have that conversation it's totally legitimate I would say the council needs to own those decisions so whatever we cut needs to be a majority Council decision and we can't Slough off [1:36:28] **Council Member Edberg**: Our obligation as the elected decision makers to tell Steph you go take the hit you come up with a plan now if they want if you want to direct them to come up with a plan that we then argue and down to the nitty-gritty and and approve that's our job the buck stops here it's not theirs so in terms of process let's have that conversation totally cool um but let's us let's assume that we are the people who are going to be held accountable for the uh for the outcomes [1:37:07] **Council Member Walsh**: council member wal well thank you Mr Mayor just you you brought up the the staff piece and that is the largest piece in the largest increase well it's the largest piece we're kind of a people oriented business here so $934,000 [1:37:15] **Council Member Walsh**: Personnel benefits expenses 7.78% of that number is I think that's the largest number right correct me if I'm wrong yep well first of all just just to respond to one one thing that council member edberg said I might I think I I would characterize the staffing issues a little differently than you I think we were on the cusp of starting to lose people I have specifically ask that in one of the work sessions are we losing people to other cities well not quite but we're gonna we're gonna any minute because there's a lot of angst and I believe that I believe that and so I don't I don't know that we were there yet we anticipated it and we we we we we made these changes to start upping salaries but you know fires or police has been an issue Statewide I everybody's trying to [1:38:01] **Council Member Walsh**: hire policemen it's been difficult to do that so here's the here's the this the this this the increase for um staff uh makes some assumptions um and this always gets weird I think I think it's weird I think it's backwards and I don't I don't know what to I don't know what to do about it you have to change you have to go to state legis should probably to change it but uh we have we have several employee unions that we deal with public employee unions um that and so we we sort of guess we sort of put it in the budget and then we go negotiate and it just seems to me as as someone on the board who has to vote to approve these contracts is there much of a negotiation when we when we put it in the budget in advance what we expect kind of to cover [1:38:47] **Council Member Walsh**: a new employee contract and then we go negotiate it it's pretty lopsided it's you know sort of which is it's It's a larger discussion of you know why we even have public employee unions um but that's something you'd have to go back and fix nationally and locally um but this is this is a manifestation of it you know we're we're we're negotiating public dollars publicly with with a public Union so that's so this this makes some assumptions on this salary schedule that we've put ourselves on we are not wedded to that I mean we we sort of philosophically committed to it we're going to make a decision we did a salary study we are following the recommendations of the salary study we are including increases we we changed levels we bumped a lot of people up cost a lot of money um and then we kind of [1:39:32] **Council Member Walsh**: assume there's this this Cola increase every year and a bump to catch up there's two bumps every year in these budgets we're not necessarily wedded to that we have to vote on that every year so that's also on the table it's the largest number the 934 th000 uh and you know I think I think we are assuming a 3% increase at least the cola I think is 3% I think that's in the memo so I'm just you know and in terms of what we're doing tonight uh it's a preliminary discussion it's a and I'm going to vote for the motion tonight I'm going to vote for the resolution to set it at the 12.4 um on the revenue side uh but it's important I think to start these conversations publicly um and and and just sort of give some direction as to where we're thinking um the final [1:40:19] **Council Member Walsh**: decision is that December decision where we really get into the budget and how it's spent including the what the levy will be so thank you any other thoughts on this [1:40:34] **Council Member Angran**: councilman rrand I plan on voting for the tax increase not this time but by December 10th I'd like to see the communication discuss was taken out by December 10 [1:40:47] **Mayor Dan Larson**: noted all right any other thoughts on this if not I would entertain [1:40:53] **Council Member Walsh**: I'll move the resolution [1:40:57] **Mayor Dan Larson**: motion has been made I have a motion to Second any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries we have a approval of the preliminary 2024 tax [1:41:06] **Mayor Dan Larson**: levy all right [1:41:07] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: mayor council members um our next work session is not dedicated to the general fund we had a a big discussion about the the general fund in August uh we don't have another plan to discuss the general fund so I'm asking you for direction tonight in addition to what council member angran recommended um as you know this is a a a body that acts as one so if there are changes that need to be made to the general fund budget and the tax levy before December because we only have one meeting in December that is something that I need to know now and that we need to go and prepare um because we have a slew of other budgets [1:41:53] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: that that we uh need to prepare right now and I just want to note we also don't have an assistant Finance director right now so it's it is really car and myself so if I can get some direction tonight I would greatly appreciate that [1:42:07] **Mayor Dan Larson**: uh by Direction you mean would you like us to request a work session what what specific because I think yes we need to have another work session on this based on what I've heard at the Dias um otherwise we're we're going to figure it all out in December um I'd rather do a little bit of planning um and have a work session so that we have something closer to what might get approved in December that would be my thought but Council what would we like to do we want to have a work session on [1:42:39] **Mayor Dan Larson**: this work session or motion no I'm just motion to cut the S uh no I don't think that's necessarily before us I think the the the feedback that Miss Crawford is looking for is we have some ideas is being floated around and this necess not isn't necessarily the Forum to flesh that out would we like the Forum to be a work session or do we want to have this in December um [1:43:08] **Council Member Walsh**: Mr Bayer I mean there's there's it's we're kind of going between we're a legislative body we can certainly we can certainly work on this ourselves and bring amendments or bring ideas and certainly work with staff in the development of those ideas um I'm not prepared I'm not prepared tonight to tell you where what I think I want to [1:43:26] **Council Member Walsh**: cut in the budget we're not doing that till December I'm not going to do that tonight tonight's the the the um tax levy vote which we just approved um I reserve the right to work on some ideas between now and December um there's also a courtesy and a and a you know work working with staff and with other other council members on ideas I'm not sure we need another work session I mean I uh I'm not against it if if the group wants to meet again um I would I would say it's not it's not tomorrow it's it's we need a little bit of time um to work on some ideas but it might not be that complicated it might simply be a few amendments that council members want to bring to the December meeting which can be fleshed out in advance with some staff help um so that the numbers make sense and are and are [1:44:11] **Council Member Walsh**: tied to to you know they're not out of nowhere and then those those amendments can be debated in public and we could decide what to do you know we've already set the the the preliminary Levy that's that's a big step um we can debate budget items but I think I think from a courtesy perspective they should be worked through staff but I don't know that we need to have another work session to do that [1:44:38] **Mayor Dan Larson**: yeah I don't know I'm indifferent I mean it it really comes down to this if if the sense is gez we're Worlds Apart then I think we ought to have a work session if we're not really Worlds Apart then it probably is okay tweaking it through amendments in December um but there was you know a lot of exchange back and forth about philosophy and wanting to get this number down I I mean is it going to get down to 5% no I mean [1:44:57] **Mayor Dan Larson**: it's G to be it's gonna be somewhere in there but I don't want to be presumptive that's up to this body to decide I think as a matter of process I'll put it this way if anybody has ideas of something you know wildly different we should think about a work session and it doesn't need to be decided tonight that can that can that can happen um through email exchanges and Miss Crawford can follow up individually with council members to decide if if we want to do that um and I think the sense that we're getting is we're non-committal on a work session and we'll let the budget season develop a little bit more and see if we need to Circle back I will note for the public that when we say work session no one's trying to keep anything from the public the work sessions are noticed and open to the public anyways which you're welcome to come nobody ever does but [1:45:42] **Mayor Dan Larson**: you're welcome to come um it just gives uh the council a less formalized ability to discuss the issues without some much of the Robert's Rules of Order so it sounds like Miss Crawford were we don't know for sure but we'll Circle back council member edir [1:46:00] **Council Member Edberg**: so thank you mayor I'm reflecting on the way we adopted last year's um budget and and final level and I was not a fan of topics that had never been discussed in work study being proposed and then we had some discussion about why the proposals weren't necessarily [1:46:28] **Council Member Edberg**: perhaps the best and um but having ideas coming out of left field on the night that we have to adopt the budget is not would not be my preferred way of doing it so I would like to suggest that we consider a work study session I don't know that we need to schedule tonight but um um my my expectation of my peers is that if we're we're going to take on a serious process of discussing changes in our patterns of expenditure and the services that we offer to our public that we number one we honor the open meeting law number and that means we can't really go and develop our conversations with other council members at least not very easily um number two [1:47:15] **Council Member Edberg**: I'd like to have us have each of us have the the benefit to think about what those proposed changes are and weigh them on their merits we may or may not find agreement but at least if we know what they are ahead of time we can have our own consideration of what do I really think is best and then we each get held accountable in our own ways and that's totally fine so having those conversations and identifying those issues that we can debate on their merits fully prepared is a reasonable process to have pulling stuff out of the air and out of our hats on the on the night of the offer or the night of the of the action is not a useful and appropriate governance um approach and um so I'm I'll just those are my [1:48:00] **Council Member Edberg**: expectations of my peers you don't have to honor them I'm just tell I'm just telling you what they are got all that Miss Crawford okay all right more to come on that okay item N9 discussion nothing scheduled item 10 Communications from the city manager [1:48:22] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager)**: I have nothing tonight May [1:48:24] **Mayor Dan Larson**: all right well I know we're running a little bit long but I see high school students in the audience so as it has been tradition I need to at least comment they're clearly back in sessions so we have some American government students here um I want to welcome you you got to see an important council meeting tonight where we discuss the budget and I don't want to trivialize a lot of our other meetings but a lot of things are Prof fora where there's [1:48:46] **Mayor Dan Larson**: contracts that staff bring and we say yeah it sounds good but the budget is one of the most significant things that we do and you got to see a good display of philosophical differences as we grapple with um how to spend uh the taxpayer dollars so I hope you got something out of this um as I've said to all the high school students 20 years ago actually got to change it now 21 years ago now I was uh in the audience I was a junior and we're coming up on my 20-year class reunion so when I was a junior at wiper Lake High School I attended a city council meeting and I still remember that and I felt like I got a lot out of it and I was glad that I did it and I think think that uh that certainly led the way towards me ending up here at the dis and mayor of the City of whitee Lake so I encourage all of you as you grow in your education and [1:49:33] **Mayor Dan Larson**: careers to participate in local government you don't necessarily have to run for office but there are lots of boards and commissions and volunteer opportunities or city staff positions um it is important work it is the work that affects our everyday lives and is uh much more connected to us than often times the federal government and state government is so I want to thank you all for being here again I hope we got you got something out of it and we're almost done and if you'd like uh I think you need to have your paper signed so you can come up after I hit my little Hammer here and we'll make sure you get your paperwork signed so you can get out of here thank you again for being here all right with that I'd entertain a motion to adjourn second a motion second all those in favor say I I we're adjourned bang [1:50:19] **Mayor Dan Larson**: that or his hammer [1:50:31] **Council Member Walsh**: yeah have a good night too um I don't think I'm going to be ready to have a session