[0:10] Mayor Matt Montgomery: is [0:20] Mayor Matt Montgomery: good evening everyone i'd like to call the january 18th meeting with the city council for the city of cannon falls to order could we have roll call please [0:35] City Clerk Sara Peer: bringle? [0:36] Council Member Bill Bringold: here. [0:37] City Clerk Sara Peer: duncan? [0:38] Council Member Derek Duncan: here. [0:39] City Clerk Sara Peer: gizme? [0:40] Council Member Mary Jill Gizme: here. [0:41] City Clerk Sara Peer: kronenberger? [0:42] Council Member Laura Kronenberger: here. [0:43] City Clerk Sara Peer: lindell? [0:44] Council Member Bucky Lundell: here. [0:45] City Clerk Sara Peer: montgomery? [0:46] Mayor Matt Montgomery: here. [0:47] City Clerk Sara Peer: althoff? [0:48] Council Member Steven Althoff: here. [0:49] Mayor Matt Montgomery: would you rise for the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay the agenda anybody have any corrections or additions hearing none is there a motion to approve the agenda [1:07] Council Member Bill Bringold: so moved [1:08] Council Member Bucky Lundell: a second [1:09] Mayor Matt Montgomery: motion by bringold second by lindell to approve the agenda any discussion all in favor opposed carried okay public input is there anybody here tonight that's has any public input other than uh bluff drive anybody paul bluff drive okay well then we won't get into the uh public input then because you all have a chance to talk at the public hearing for bluff drive anybody wants to talk [1:55] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay public hearing we'll open that up uh well actually it's resolution 2607 it's ordering improvements and directing preparation of the final plans and specs for bluff drive let's i'll turn over to bill he's got some before we open the public hearing [2:05] City Engineer Bill Angerman: thank you mayor um so just a little bit of background uh this is the first public hearing that jon and i will be doing with you so just a little bit of what we're doing also explain to the audience so in a second here i'll i'll go to the podium we have a presentation and you know there this process that we're following here is you know following minnesota statute 429 it's fairly prescriptive of what we have to do so we'll kind of walk through the steps and uh the intent is there i'll give the overview of of what the project is some of the statutory steps we have to require and then i will sit back down and that would be the chance for the public to come up to the microphone state their name address and then provide input to the city council some of it could just be an opinion some of it could be in the form of a question then mayor you can decide if you would like staff or myself uh to answer you know any questions uh the culmination of this as you mentioned where you have a resolution uh in your packet that you will entertain about the resolution uh when we do assessment projects there's two types of projects there are either petition initiated projects or council-initiated projects this is a council-initiated project so that means the city council started this process uh several months ago when you commissioned the preparation of an engineer's report for this so what that means when you do consider the resolution you'll take into account the testimony of anybody in the public but it does have to be a super majority to pass so that is one of the stipulations so uh with that i'm gonna switch switch spots here and all right i am glad to see all the av is working so okay so as i mentioned uh so what we'll talk about the items on the screen though so we will talk to the area to be assessed which is roughly 15 homes on bluffs drive and then these other items that we really covered you know based on on statute so the background what we're proposing we do have to outline the process so everybody understands that and we'll talk about our general schedule costs and then lastly as i mentioned public comments so project area here so it's bluff drive if everybody's familiar where that is and what the area what we're proposing is approximately 15 homes so the area in red is the construction area and the area in blue uh the properties that are proposed to be assessed okay so a little bit about this so council you did receive a feasibility report on this that is in the council packet tonight so there's some more detail to support the discussions that we're having but you did review that at your december 7th meeting and just in summary you know this is a development that was never completed so the final lift of blacktop is traditionally done you know the year after a subdivision is put in and this subdivision has sat idle for many many years so in essence this project the city is taking over from the developer and you're in essence finishing the project so finishing the project means final layer of blacktop and then also other items related to some settlement of some curb some patching etc uh the city council did direct staff so dan and and and staff members from from our firm went out we checked the fire items the valves you know the manuals etc so i think you may have heard the term punch list that's a list of incomplete items so we don't have a big list which is fortunate so but all those items will be incorporated uh in into the plans okay so as i mentioned uh you know what we'll do is we have replaced some subtle curves we do have some manholes uh that require adjusting uh that final lift of blacktop and then also we will be installing a sidewalk on the north side of the road so my understanding is i think staff has received a couple questions on that so just you know just wanted to highlight the reason why we have sidewalk because that was in the original plan so sidewalk is required or as is part of your ordinance uh the subdivisions uh to the just to the west that connect to this all have sidewalk on one side of the road and sidewalk was stubbed or connected from the intersection uh you know stubbed in on the north side so we're basically going to finish that process that was started again uh several years ago all right and then as i mentioned uh minnesota statute 429 so uh we have we follow this process and we have to explain this to the public as well it's just part of what this public hearing is so uh so first you know the council determines the need for a project so you've already done that uh as you have uh ordered that engineering study performed which i just mentioned we you reviewed about a month ago uh so tonight is the third bullet so we're holding that hearing improvements hearing on improvements i like to call this the the thumbs up or the thumbs down are we moving forward are we not moving forward so there is a sorry then you're going to hear that tonight and then you will authorize in that same resolution the preparation of the plans and specifications so following statute then we would publicly bid the project where we take the lowest bidder and at that time then we would have another hearing so tonight i call this this the initial hearing it's the thumbs up thumbs down hearing that next the final hearing then is when we actually tell people their their prices so everything we have tonight is estimates okay we won't know the actual final assessment until we bid the project okay that's also when you will determine uh financing terms so uh historically most cities will allow people to you know levy this against their property taxes uh jon and i we haven't had this discussion yet so we're a little premature but we'd typically take this back to the public works commission but oftentimes the city will allow a resident uh you'll you'll pick a term like 10 years maybe 15 years and most common thing to do then is you charge interest typically one percentage point over what you know you would pay so for example right now if you paid two percent you may choose three percent but again that's i like to bring that up because oftentimes in this room while people asking about that that's not really what the intent of this hearing is but we can answer a couple questions that may help you know but that that will really occur uh at a later date okay and then after that final assessment hearing then uh people will i'm sorry at that final assessment hearing that's also when people uh can contest their assessment so that would mean that they would present testimony to you of why their property uh is not worth uh more after the project than it was before okay so statute says that your property needs to be worth at least the amount that they're being assessed their value the property goes up that amount okay they would present that to you and then you are the decider of that okay so you would hear that testimony if someone did appeal their assessment you are the body to hear that and then you would decide at that meeting now they can also appeal to district court but they start with you first okay after you would hear that then you would decide to award the construction contract and then project would begin okay and then here is just our timetable so we're still in the same timetable we had previously laid out so again those first thing two items are here tonight if you do move forward we're anticipating coming back with the plans uh our april second meeting in april receive bids second meeting in may and then that final hearing would be in june construction would start roughly july and in the fall and again this may change a little bit uh you know depending upon you know how council meetings go some of the things you know we'll have to get prepared it could change slightly but this is really what we're intending at this point okay and then lastly here costs so again there's a complete breakdown in the report but total estimated cost is a hundred and five thousand and then there's 15 lots based on city policy that uh that would be assessed a hundred percent okay why a hundred percent a hundred percent because this is what we what i call maybe jon and i call first time improvements okay meaning that this development was never finished so before a city typically would take a development over all the blacktop would have to be installed all the sidewalks have to be installed so until that's been put in the first time that's typically all the developers cost or in this case the homeowners cost so hence the 100 percent this was a reconstruct project then we have we have different rules and different percentages that apply uh so 15 i guess 15 divided by 105 uh 7 000 a lot again that's our estimate so we'll know the actual number uh after we uh do the bids okay so mayor that uh that ends my presentation so i'll just leave that slide up and then i'll go back to my chair and people can address the council [11:38] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay let's open the public hearing on bluff drive if you want to come forward this is your time [11:51] Chris Albrecht: chris albrecht 6670 bluff drive and my wife here diana is here as well uh and certainly we've been up there the longest so we've we've been there since we were the first house on bluff drive a couple things uh top coating absolutely all for it uh the repair of the curb and gutter absolutely uh manholes etc uh the one challenge i have is the sidewalk um a few years ago edina mem citizens have you done successfully sued edina when they were attempting to uh put in sidewalks since their neighborhoods because they found that it adversely affected the character of the neighborhood and in fact i did some research and across the country even though it is mandated by statute in a lot of places is not necessarily a requirement of a sub development um and there are a couple reasons i have i take issue with the sidewalk one we're essentially going to be a dead end street and certainly i've been up there long enough to see what kind of foot traffic that we have and traditionally sidewalks serve two purposes one is the public safety if you have a large heavily trafficked road you want people off the road and on a sidewalk and then secondly as a character or the co or the good enjoyment of that area whenever shopping etc not a lot of shopping up there and not a lot of homes as you can see we have 15 homes um so in regards to the sidewalk um our lots are a little shallower than the current sidewalk that runs down actually cedar hills our we're five feet shorter in our setback according to what's currently on cedar hills and it's just a sidewalk continuing through the properties on that side really make it difficult for two reasons for me to develop my my lots that i own in that are next to me in that i have some bluff top setback issues with with rules in minnesota for what i can how close i can run a property on the back side of the property to where the bluff starts to decline and unfortunately it's not the main drop down to county 25 it's actually where the level stops and it drops down so i have some real restrictive and it would make it would put me at a bit of a burden to be able to properly tilt to the table to probably uh develop my two properties um and you know as for people being able to walk it you know i drove a lot of cannon falls there's a lot of cannon falls with no sidewalks i mean i i kind of ran some miles up and it's actually miles of cam falls with no sidewalks so my take on the sidewalks is no on everything else absolutely my neighbor mentioned a street sign it would be really cool someday to get a street sign because we always have to tell people to kind of you know it's it's that road so that would be nice to have finally a street sign up there um and then lastly um i would love to hear what's happening at the end of the road is there going to be an adequate turnaround or something are we going actually slightly change that so it's a true cul-de-sac or what is the plans and i would also love to eventually hear you know kind of i hate for cam falls to take three steps forward and one back and i think in given i think all this needs to happen but i think we should also have a good game plan with what we're doing here for what some of the future plans are for the final development on the other side do we put a berm in is that park that was mandated in the original development is that going to be there and if so how does it affect it um the last thing i wanted to say about um the uh the sidewalks is you know it it's just it's just something it's just like i think we could probably take a pass on so and that's probably all that i have so thank you [15:56] Rick Knowlton: hi my name is rick knowlton i thank you both a lot of you know me uh anyway my son and i we have four lots up there on bluff drive yet and we're not against any improvements uh i mean except for the sidewalk of course uh at issue most everybody and they'll come up and speak i'm just speaking for ourselves uh we're against the sidewalk one we have a lot of fill that needs to go in these lots and out the blue shale clay's got to come out and if the sidewalks are in on that north side of the road that's going to create problems because those trucks are they're not that sidewalk's not going to hold up so either we delay that or cancel that part all together and we just soon have it cancelled as far as the end of the street you guys know that i came for a variance one time and the street was closed and it was it needed improvements so my question back to you is why isn't this end of the street included on these improvements because it is a turnaround for garbage trucks mailman amazon police departments down there checking to see if anybody's running around the city park so it needs to be a turnaround the a lot of the residents and cedar hills would just assume that somebody take this thing over sandstone ridge and get the road out to 25 that would allow safety another exit and winter time it's easier to come in on a flat than it is to come up the hill and believe me i've been up in that area since uh 19 let's see 77 so i know the hill very well um as far as far as a couple of the other issues i think city injured calls this project a first build this far but my my belief is that the curb is not a first bill the curb was in there it was taken over by the city the street wasn't brought second pavement wasn't put on the street but the curbs were in city council has made a stance back in 2017 or 18 for another addition across the north side of us that they would take care of sagged curb in that area and i just feel that the residents on bluff drive should get that that same respect as as that they're getting other than that as far as the street sign i think i did talk to dan at one meeting and he was he was working on that so what would he like to say no it's supposed to be bluff drive drive yeah i'm not gonna handle it thank you [19:01] Kelly Gibbons: good evening members of the council my name is kelly gibbons and i am not a resident yet i purchased the land a couple of years ago and so i have a lot on i think my address would be the 6683 i was not informed about this meeting my mother told me about it because she lives up there also and she has three lots which when you are we lost our dad in july and now she's gonna have to suffer the cost of these improvements and they're quite extensive i'm against all of it right now because the development as you have pointed out is not finished there's going to be a lot of construction up there there's still homes that aren't built and the reason they're not built is because covet happened and you can't either get the supplies or you can't afford them so it'll be a couple years before we get up there as a property owner my taxes went up this year 37 percent so now i'm going to incur another expense of sidewalks and streets and everything else and i've driven the streets and they look okay to me and there's curbs up there but we are going to have a lot of construction and when those trucks rip up those roads again who is going to pay for that because i don't think the burden should be on us the people who live there i'm not against improvements i'm not against having a beautiful neighborhood i'm all for it but we need to take some other things into consideration before we make these decisions i don't get a say on how you spend my money that's not okay it's just not okay i don't come to you until you have to put twenty thousand dollars into your house or your property i asked to put a shed on my property so that i could maintain that property and mow the grass and keep it looking nice and you know what i can't do that because i don't have a house on the property yet which to me doesn't make any sense if you want a beautiful neighborhood once you want somebody to take care of it luckily i got a nice enough neighbor who has kind of taken over my lot and thinks it's his and he mows the grass for me so i'm okay with that but at the end of the day my mother has three lots so that would be three times and she's trying to sell one of them because my dad passed and now she's living on a fixed income you know so we have to take those kind of things into consideration too when we start making decisions for those and there is going to be more development going on behind us and those of us that do come up there we walk on the street we don't have a problem with it there's no traffic we all know who is coming through there you might get five or ten cars at a time up there because there's no place else to go so i really wish you would think about this long and hard before you make a decision because it's not right to put a burden of a financial another financial thing on top of us when the taxes went up so high this year and i don't know why that happened either but that's a lot 37 percent on a single lot so i just wanted to come up here and say you know i wish you would just put this on pause i think we have a couple more years of major construction up there because we've got more houses to build and then let's come back and put the road in and make it pretty and the sidewalks and whatever but there's curbs we don't need those either so i want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak tonight thanks [22:51] Doug Gys: it's my turn i'm doug guys i own one of the lots up there i don't know what the address is uh i i'm not a uh i'm in favor if they want to do the blacktop up there curbs i guess my one question is if they cambered the sewer line up there now before you go and do an overlay other than just look down the manholes to make darn sure you know that we've we've got good infrastructure there that stuff is over 20 years old one thing i'm against would be the sidewalks we're gonna have hundreds of trucks come in and out of there yet with gravel hauling out that shale so sidewalks are that's just does not fit the bill yet honest you know you guys got to listen to these guys talking out here because they know what they're talking about so don't just glaze over everybody's eyes glaze over and just listen to your engineer you've got to listen to some of these people that know what's going on out here so on the end of the street down there you need to do something down there people turn around down there you're gonna end up having another mess like you got up at mincing's up there with no place to turn around for all the trucks that bring all the deliveries in there uh everybody's fighting up there at mincings trying to figure out how to get turned around up in there and so it would be good at this time to to do something down on that end by the future park and and try to clean that up at the same time as far as sidewalks about the only people are going to use that are the people that take their dog down there to take a dump so just i'm just saying it's premature to put the sidewalks in yet thank you thanks doug [24:55] Aaron Deutsch: hello council hum i'm aaron deutsch i live uh 6694 the last house on the north side of the bluff drive um i guess we're uh might me and my wife are for the overlay really needs it on rainy days uh the water is unable to get up to this sewer runoff so it runs down the tar and back into the sandstone ridge development there's a lot of sunken spots on the tar which leaves a lot of puddles so just you know we're for the overlay but uh the sidewalks not so much um don't feel the overlay should stop just that bluff drive if we do the overlay let's let's make that turn around like everybody else saying trucks we're on the end so we see all the vehicles that turn around and especially now with the snow you see just tons of tire tracks down in that snow so if we do something to the bluff drive why not do something to sandstone ridge where that that road is going to need it too so if we blacktop down to your other driveway would that be just about right yeah yeah great go ahead yep keep going yeah well that's the yeah so like that may be another topic but so yeah so uh along with that uh but doug or somebody mentioned that rodeo 25 this last snow storm my wife had to park down at snap fitness because she couldn't get up the hill so hey if we have another route let's let's put her in that'd be great um um let's see what else we got here um well everybody would be now that you know he took that over the grass cutting turned out really nice really like that in the park it looks a lot better let's be nice to even clean it up even more now that the city owns it there's a big couple big stumps out there that we're throwing in to i don't know make the place look like hell i i don't know why the stumps are thrown there but uh let's if the city owns it let's clean her up a little bit keep the grass mode i believe everybody else does too so let's clean that up and then maintain that road if that's if we're going to keep people back there let's maintain it um i guess i i i believe with everybody else that why why are we playing paying for the curbs i understand the overlay but the curbs are were put in by somebody that did it wrong why aren't they responsible for why am i responsible for it it just doesn't seem right to be that overlay yeah we need it i'll we'll pay for it but why why the curbs so that's all i have thank you thanks thank you thank you [27:54] Barb Quiddambar: anybody else i guess i'll say a word i'm barb quiddambar and our property is at 66.71 straight across the street from chris and diane um i'm pretty much agree with all these our main concern would is that we get some blacktop so that's a very good thing but the sidewalks again sort of like everyone else has been saying seem to be unnecessary up in our little area we only have a few houses not that many people are walking so i don't really think that's necessary but the blacktop would be nice and street sign would be nice so that's all i have to say thanks thank you thank you [28:43] Council Member Diane Johnson: anybody else um i'm diane johnson i don't actually live there but i've i've walked my dog there and no i did not poop anywhere out there and with our bags anyway i guess i wonder it's it these were in the thing that said you know the developer failed to do this and so now the city the people that live there are stuck with a bill is this the same developer that was sandstone ridge or a different one yeah because i think what are we going to do you know obviously we can't go back and sue the developer to pay for these needed improvements but going forward are we going to let that same developer or the people work with them take on another project in town and maybe do this to us again down the road is there some way we as a city can say to these developers because now we've got one on the north side of town you know make them put the money in an escrow account that would pay for all the improvements that they promised to do and that way if they do them they get the money back if they don't have the money to pay for it it just it just seems very unfair that developers come in promise to do things end up falling short leaving and sticking the people of cannon falls and especially the homeowners on this given area with the build thanks anybody else [30:35] City Engineer Bill Angerman: so so mayor at this point typically you would close the public hearing and then the council would have the choice to ask a chance to ask me questions or discuss amongst yourself [30:48] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay we'll close the public hearing on bluff drive council questions for bill [30:50] Council Member Bill Bringold: one question for bill someone mentioned that the curb should not be considered a first um a first build thing um just your comments on that [31:00] City Engineer Bill Angerman: well traditionally that would be the developers so the developer would typically put the curb in and then normally the second lift the blacktop would be two years later versus 20. and at that point they would replace the curb uh that's obviously at your discretion but that would be the the standard process um the earth the other thing is uh that you know i get asked a lot is well what about the value of the property all that and the other thing you consider is okay well were these lots discounted were these lots cheaper you know on the sandstone ridge we recently talked about dollars and costs and what it costs to build those lots and if for those of you that are on that committee that we're looking at that there's about fifty thousand dollars in fixed costs just per lot to finish the rest of sandstone you know so uh if if you have 50 000 in fixed costs and you need 75 think about okay what did you pay for your lot five versus dollars for what the rest of sandstone would be you know something to think about as well [32:15] Council Member Laura Kronenberger: we've got a question about the sidewalks um because we've talked about the future of there being a park there i understand i'm listening to the citizens they don't want it but if sandstone ridge someday does get developed and there is a park there and then 15 years from now we come back and say yep we need a sidewalk the cost and the assessment will probably be much greater i understand right now walking the streets there's not much traffic there's not much homes i totally get that but there's 15 lots up there in the park is there a requirement for the sidewalk or is that our discretion [32:38] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: neil you want to take that or yeah according to our ordinance and in fact i printed it off there's a chart it's it would be called a minor collector or local street and its sidewalk would be required on one side of the street that's why you see it coming up you know through cedar hills it's all on one side is there an opportunity to do it later versus now versus i mean they were talking like with the construction and that's that was you know i i certainly get what doug's saying uh they're going to destroy it and why put it in i don't know i don't know how i know there's been developments that once the house is built you put the sidewalk in as a occupancy final occupancy that would be part of the part of the agreement and then eventually when all the houses are built um the sidewalks are all installed i don't know how long it's going to take to do sandstone uh that's that could be a while but eventually you know that that sidewalk has got to get out to 25 to the trail i mean to make these connections they you know it's it's always a connection where's where are we trying to get to and and and i get i get the local street we walk on the street i get that until somebody gets hit and then it then that's off but um i do get what doug is saying and the guys are saying out here that that doesn't they're gonna they'll back over that sidewalk and he'll be gone in first week absolutely mayor [34:35] City Engineer Bill Angerman: go ahead so in a traditional development i say traditional i mean traditional time frame you know two to three years to build uh usually as part of the development agreement it would say the sidewalks would be put in with the lot after the home was built not before so that so this is an unusual situation so if the council you know directed staff we could come back with there could be a way to you know discuss with the property owners would they you know they'd have that we have some sort of agreement that they would have to put the sidewalk in when their lot was built you know there's there's something that could be done on that if that was your wishes [35:10] Council Member Bill Bringold: bill would um there's concerns with the sidewalks and that they would be trashed by trucks constantly going over is is that uh correct that the sidewalks will get wrecked as they excavate [35:20] City Engineer Bill Angerman: i would say if traditional builders don't pay a lot of attention to the sidewalk but one of the things that we do through the building permit process if you rake the sidewalk then you've got to replace it property owner and then it would be on them to work with their builder but uh i would agree with neil that people have to take care and oftentimes builders don't you know and sometimes it's the guy that shows up you know delivering the trusses and he just backs you know he or she's in they back over so it's not ideal so i do agree with the public on that [36:00] Council Member Laura Kronenberger: so since i mean this is obviously very unique situation and we've been on a side note working on the sandstone ridge committee is there a way that we can tie it into that if it ever if it ever goes forward well right i mean yeah so right because we because you mentioned the um builder agreement so if we get to the point finally where we get builder for sandstorm ridge it kind of ties into that i mean not that they would pay for it but when sandstone ridge gets the point where they're putting in sidewalks they have to do it is that an option is i guess my question that yes there's various options that i think would be as if there was a direction from the council for staff and i to look at that yeah we could look at that and we'd talk to city clerk about what we can do for you know agreements with people individual people yeah and being on that sandstone committee with laura we do want the sidewalk to connect to 25 and the trail and stuff eventually but we do know that sandstone ridge is is tough based on the preliminary numbers we've seen um we're going to need the sidewalk when i don't know and sandstone ridge and decor drive those will all be finished when or if we're able to develop a sandstone ridge [37:50] Mayor Matt Montgomery: i can see not doing the sidewalk now i guess we can't do anything about sandstone road but we definitely got to do the blacktop and curbs and the few other items that will be on a punch list yeah i would i would agree um it's you know it's one of those things someone asked me once about sidewalks and i said no in cana falls we don't believe in sidewalks it's true i mean really there there are there are only two blocks of cannon falls that have sidewalk all the way around one of them is the one that merchants bank is on i'll let you all guess what the other one is i found it once by accident but anyway we just don't believe in them and at this point especially given and doug i never my eyes never glaze over when you were rick talk i always listen when you and rick talk okay man a few words um i think you're absolutely right that the contractors aren't gonna pay attention the main builder will but the guy delivering the trusses that you know they're just they don't they don't care so i would agree that we could should at least delay those sidewalks and and it seems it seems unreasonable now because there are so few houses up there but when sandstone ridge hopefully gets developed there will be people up there and there hopefully there will be foot traffic to support that so that's my take on it are you saying you want to wait until every house is developed not necessarily no not necessarily um there must be some percentage right because you're always going to have lots that makes it empty yeah right yeah so that must be like once 80 of the houses are built at some point you know we can look at that but i would agree at this point it's and i would think we would have to have something in place so that the current um landowners in the affected area have to have something something in writing to know that they are going to have to they're going to have they're going to have to pay for a sidewalk at some point it may not be them it may be a future owner who knows yeah sara [39:15] City Clerk Sara Peer: yeah i'd recommend if you're going to consider delaying for any time yeah we can absolutely work out percentages and times and you definitely want all the homeowners to agree and you want something recorded against their property because the bigger issue you'll find is you'll go to put in the sidewalk and the cost of the sidewalk sure but someone will put their uh sprinkler heads there someone will come with your fence there someone will put a shed there and so you want to make real real clear that we've got these when they come in you say hey you knew this was going in and you knew this was where it was going in so we absolutely want them to agree and then get it recorded against the property so new owners know as well what we're getting right yep if you got have an agreement that to the landowners uh and and who's there i say we forget the sidewalks right now [40:29] Council Member Bill Bringold: i agree with that and then do is it can be considered then since the curb and gutter were there then like in limestone we the city paid for those to get fixed is that not the similar situation [41:00] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: i don't think with the black type i don't think it is no i don't think it is because it was never finished to begin with unfortunately i i understand that limestone was accepted by the city okay and this project was not this project was never finished yeah did it fall apart in limestone yeah but the the city actually accepted the project and so when we take over um that's when when we are liable this was never done um so when we uh when you would do a typical as bill said um you're going to find cracks in two-year-old curb and gutter that stuff would come out and eventually at two years them cracks will come out and and they'll get replaced they'll put the black top down and then we'll accept the project then we're responsible okay so we got to accept the project sooner or later um this is a this is a different deal it it's it's been going on a real long time and and but we uh we the city has always got to accept the project and then they take over responsibility [42:15] Council Member Bill Bringold: well and these these homeowners and property owners have not paid for this is that correct i mean they have not am i right the lots were extremely cheap in that six seven thousand dollar range range yeah so even the added cost minus a little bit for the sidewalks they're still getting a deal their their lots have got to be worth fifteen thousand on the thing rick [42:30] Rick Knowlton: i'm just gonna respond to um neil to you also that uh you said the city has never taken this project over here's the documentation science signatures that's sandstone ridge though well bluff fella sandstone sorry that was taken over the school bus went through that development for two years until the sags and the blacktop started and that's when they stopped [42:46] City Clerk Sara Peer: go ahead sir i can weigh in on that so when the city takes over a project from a developer it's an official action the city says yes that is complete we take it over it is now our project the plan being recorded the work being done has nothing to do with it so the fact that people are out there using it has nothing to do with the debt it's the debt it's the dedication right here not the dedication [43:10] Rick Knowlton: why did the daddy plow it then they plowed it for two years the school buses were driving [43:15] City Clerk Sara Peer: the dedication occurs with the flat the developer then goes out in theory does all of the work once the work is done the city accepts it officially and that's when the developer's warranty starts usually it's a two-year warranty so the city has not accepted this project yet [43:39] Rick Knowlton: those usually aren't recorded sir what do i have here i know if i'm working on a project that's how we do it so for the last 10 years you know if they were accepted or not accepted because it's not recorded that doesn't even make sense i can't believe you'd say that what do you mean what huh [44:15] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: no no i'm confused city staff hasn't been here that long for one thing also she doesn't know i asked her when you have a typical development she's saying the council has to accept that's correct and we have not done that in any development so why use mayor if i could because there's official council action that occurs no official council action has occurred that we're aware of that's every development there's a motion a resolution uh a council memo from the administrator from the engineer for every development now we haven't had a lot of developments uh to our knowledge we've reviewed the file there's no uh council acceptance of this project and the reason being is well the project's not done so it'd be there's no intuitively it wouldn't make sense why would the council accept an incomplete project so number one we looked in the files we don't find it number two it makes sense why it wasn't accepted so all right so it seems plausible and reasonable to staff that that would be the case [45:10] Rick Knowlton: can can you review this document that i have because it has the mayor signature uh [45:15] City Clerk Sara Peer: yeah it's a plat it's not a three it's not a development agreement it's not a resolution it's a plat so it's very much separate documentation signing over the streets the cul-de-sacs it's not the circle it's not the same thing but so they're signing it over to the city so they're taking responsibility at that time they started plowing the street they started driving school buses through there [45:40] Rick Knowlton: that's not how it works uh once a road is planted the city can accept it and can open it it's not required to it's not required to accept it that you have this you just said it [45:45] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: no she didn't say that at all that the part of the reason for that is otherwise i could go out and plat a road back here and say hey city you've got a road now it doesn't work that way so the dedication is step one once it's dedicated the city now can accept it if it chooses to do so and cities generally say we're not going to accept it until it's done because we don't want a situation exactly like this so as bill stated if we had evidence this had been accepted this would be a different case we don't and because it's not done this was a weird one it was one where the developer went bankrupt in the middle and this was before we had nowadays someone mentioned it nowadays we have very clear development agreements we have letters of credit we have escrows that money is used to finish the project this one happened so long ago we just didn't have that so so usually what would happen is the developer would finish the work the city engineer the city administrator would say yep it's done we've checked it the punch list is done bring it to the council and say okay it's done city confirmed this that's the acceptance so there's the dedication that occurs initially it gives the city the right to use it and then there's the actual acceptance where the city says okay yep it's ours and that's we're in the middle of that right here and usually it doesn't take 20 years but it has in this case okay what does the council think [47:15] Council Member Bill Bringold: i think we should do everything except the sidewalks so the sidewalks are about 24 percent of the total cost so without that that would approximately bring the each flat down to about 50 50 300 um assessed for the project but you know give or take but bear in mind that there would have to be agreements in places that they do have yep so in the future they would you know they would have to put it in themselves but i did have one question um the assessment how is that going to be broken out over uh i mean what uh where what is due and when on the assessments is it immediate is it over taxes over x amount of time for a couple people with rob certainly there's some burden uh right [48:10] City Engineer Bill Angerman: bill can answer that so so mayor so typically what would happen is after that final assessment role you know from the time frame we had before which was that you know spring time frame uh then the council would set a date to they could prepay typically uh it's to the end of the year or i'm sorry uh to november 15th uh so they would have that opportunity to prepay if they do not prepay uh then it would go on their their tax roll for a period that you would set as i mentioned oftentimes 10 years or 15 years i was going to say 10 years yeah yeah at that interest rate you mentioned that's correct yep and so some people who are feeling a burden and a little bit freaked out by it they could they could certainly take it on their tax side and understand that's an extremely low interest rate i mean given where rates are yeah yeah and it would not be as much of a burden for some people who might feel pressured by that right you'd have that option i know for my west end project what five six years ago it's 15 years at like three and a half percent or something like that so whatever that is per year i can't remember offhand yeah thank you [49:00] Council Member Bill Bringold: well does somebody want to make a motion that we do the project with the milling overlay or final coat street sign curb and gutter and no sidewalks i will make a motion to approve resolution 2607 minus the sidewalks with the fact that there has to be an agreement with the landowners um and yes and add a street sign otherwise the project as as presented minus that is there a second of that motion [50:11] Council Member Steven Althoff: okay a second [50:16] Mayor Matt Montgomery: motion by bill and a second by steve to approve resolution 2607 minus the sidewalks but an agreement's got to be made with the homeowners if that'd be done and had a street sign there's any other discussion before we vote with that and do we need to have any anything addressing the turnaround point where sandstone road meets bluff drive obviously the citizens have brought that up do we need to include anything for resurfacing there or is this just going to end i think technically i'd be separate unless you were planning to add that to the assessment amount if you wanted to add that to the assessment then i would specify that now if not then that could be decided another at another time so what's going to happen with that portion of sandstone road will it just stay as is i'll speak for staff and engineering you know there is a committee that's looking at that and so uh that's still in the works so i i don't think that's been resolved at this point right so we don't need to include any language with no no the only thing you'd have to include is if you wanted to add that to be assessed against these 15 people if not then you would leave it out got it thank you you want to leave it out matt i don't think they want to be assessed foreign i don't think i'm just guessing okay the motion is made in second uh any other discussion all in favor aye aye opposed buried [51:50] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay we're going to move on we've got a presentation tonight from the canfall senior center bill hoyt hear up [52:00] Bill Hoyt: mayor council members city staff thank you for giving me the opportunity to address you this evening about the canada valley senior center my name is bill hoyt and i am on the board of directors at the canada valley senior center uh proudly on the board of directors it's really a a fantastic group of people we have 18 people that are on the board they're very uh involved with it um energized by it and it in addition to that there are many many members of the community that have come out to help us such as laura over here thank you laura with uh various projects that we have come up with um so it is a it is a it's not a static group it's a group that is taking a look at what's the situation that we have right now as the we look at the baby boomers and the growing how do we get to our senior members our income that we have we're a non-profit organization and again our focus is on the seniors i don't want to offend anybody here but a senior we take we kind of look at that from an aarp standpoint when you get around 50 years old you start getting the letter no you're not but i'm not i'm not knocking arp and i'll come into that in a second so um but we look at that from a standpoint of uh 50 years of age or older but we certainly don't discriminate from that standpoint either our income comes from grants that we go out and pursue donations that are made to us by citizens and organizations family fair receipts they give us a certain portion of money for what we bring back to them on on receipts uh memorial contributions and this the uh cannon valley fair parking um we are the organization that coordinates that with the canada valley fear of collecting the fees for people that are coming in and once again there are many many people that are involved with this not just the not the senior center our main source of income has always been from concerts and from trips that we sponsor such as we have one that's coming up to branson missouri we had the branson missouri event scheduled for last year and because of covid and and how bad it was in the state of missouri um we had to cancel that that trip uh we we have day trips um and we have long term trips um but once again because of covid um that has impacted us significantly one thing too when we take a look at the concerts that we have provided in the past and we're still hoping to do it in the future is it it's it's a big plus to the city of of cannon falls we got a lot of people that come from outside the uh the cannon falls area that attend the concerts i'm taking a look at what we some of just some of the things that we are doing um uh the thanksgiving dinner that takes place um it's operated out of uh saint pius church uh thanking them for for giving us the space that we use there we provided 165 meals to uh seniors during that time typically shut-in type of people i do uh meals on wheels as well and i and i see these people that you know they're they're people that are basically don't have one anything else to communicate and some of them are very very former prominent members of our community in addition to the 165 meals i don't know if you received one but i did get some pumpkin pumpkin bars i had to dial 9-1-1 but i got some pumpkin bars too the officers that were on duty that day they're really good oh thank you thank you um we also we're going to be coming up this year we're going to introduce the aarp driver smart program this is a brand new program that aarp rolled out this year we're still waiting for approval from aarp legal to to bring this out because of covid's situation but the senior center is where we're going to roll out this program there's really no cost to the program but there's a fee that goes to the instructor and since i'm the instructor through aarp there won't be any fee that will be associated with this we also provide type of exercise programs to to seniors um pickleball softball from what i understand on the softball the way i'm won a game and exercise classes for seniors so it's geared towards the the senior members we do quilting um and the quilting is a lot of people will gather and they'll put together the quilts there is one facility here in town a very large facility that we provided a quilt made by people um at the senior center to virtually every single person that wanted one in the facility so it it's something where we collect the material and then people come together once again what a great great way for uh for seniors to come together and interact we do just just a few more here the trail rides for the seniors that we put on the pie and ice cream in the park we contribute everything for that ourselves and many many other events that we put on for the well-being of our the seniors in our area due to covet this is this is kind of where we're at right now covet has brought i always look at this from the standpoint of opportunities okay if if we can't bring people in if we can't have concerts if we can't take a look at road trips then how do we reach people and what we have done is again working with people is that we have come forward with and there have been a number of people that have been involved with this a better way of communicating to seniors um if you take a look at facebook now we're on facebook i understand not everybody's on facebook but it is a good avenue by which to reach seniors and there's a lot of good information out there for them to get involved with with activities we now have a column in the beacon i don't know if you've seen that but we worked with the beacon so that we have a column in there dedicated to the canon valley senior center and it's not hidden over we we kind of wanted it over there by the police report because obviously you know a little humor here but most people kind of gravitate to that so um um we're promoting the canada valley valley senior center for more participation with people um getting out there getting out into the community and talking to people if you haven't attended our hot dog fest that we put on in the in the family fair parking lot that's another way that we're we're getting out to people so we're trying to communicate and our goal is really to get out to people that are you know that can participate or those that basically are in their home and once again a lot of them that i see on with meals on wheels that have no wonder no one to talk to and so we're that is a is a goal that we have so to to achieve this and then and this is you know hopefully you'll i i know that you've given us such great support in the past but we're asking due to what we're seeing right now we do have expenses let me let me talk about that first we do have expenses we have a director and she is constantly busy at the center we do have insurance that we have to pay for we have taxes that we have to pay for and equipment upgrades so for us for example to do the aarp uh training i'm gonna need a large tv because i'll do it in powerpoint um what we're asking from the council is once again currently you've you've been giving us five thousand dollars for quite a period of time and we graciously appreciate that we're asking if you would would up that two thousand dollars to seven thousand dollars on an annual basis to help us through this this time frame so that is that is essentially what i'm asking from the council tonight from the canada valley senior center is that what we did last year because because of covid uh you didn't have any consul concerts you know um i believe last year i'm going from yes last year it was that i came to you and you did increase it uh two thousand dollars for one year with with with covet and the mutations and and pandemics and i've been involved with this before i retired at the airport but these things kind of continue on and that's we're seeing right now so since we haven't approached the council for a conse for a considerable period of time other than that one time for the two thousand dollar increase what we're asking is that you know on an annual basis going forward that we receive seven thousand uh rather than the five thousand so a two thousand dollar increase and we would greatly appreciate it because like i say we've got a we've got an energetic group and we've got a lot of people out there that are pretty enthused about about moving forward and and what the canon valley senior center is doing very good thank you yeah we'll take that into consideration when we make our contributions here usually it's mid-year i think july and june july whatever okay we'll consider that thank you very very much everyone [1:02:39] Mayor Matt Montgomery: i have a question for you bill yeah the school referendum is coming up if it does not pass what happens to the senior center [1:02:45] Bill Hoyt: we've we've taken a look at it and we've been in discussions with the school superintendent and board members etc we've looked at what our options will be we've been approached at one time about you know possibly having our senior center here but that wouldn't give us a place for people to exercise um so it's it's not a situation of of you know we're going to have the same thing as what we have at that school one of the things that we are doing and if you want to come by at between 12 and 2 tomorrow at at family fair over here you're going to see me handing out brochures two people that come in to ask them to vote vote yes if you don't vote that is a no vote and so we're we're taking a look at this from a standpoint and i and i i can't speak for all people but if i look at a 225 000 home and the increases in your taxes if both referendums pass is 7.33 a month or equivalent to a big mac meal at mcdonald's so i for our children in this community and i'm passionate about this obviously but for our children in this community let let's be a leader here um i bought two factories for a very large manufacturer here in goodhue county out state factories and i looked at the schools and that is what a lot of firms will do and your tax base i'm not telling you anything you don't already know but your tax base a large portion of it does come from industry um so that is that is something that you know you could implode so i hopefully i've answered your question i probably answered it longer than what you wanted though no that's i was just curious i like you i certainly hope the referendum passes but uh i was just curious if you guys had done any you know what if scenarios it has recreation you know possibilities there it's going to be hard to replace i think if if me and i'll call it editorialized for just one second here but um i was involved in in three billion dollars worth of construction at the metropolitan airports commission um i i think my predecessor quit be just two days before that came out so he didn't want to deal with it but anyway taking a look at that we also inherited some buildings that had to be torn down and one we call it the asbestos hotel and when you take a look then at let's say this doesn't pass and they have to tear down or one of the facilities to see the facility that we're in it's not just coming in there with a bulldozer and wrecking ball you have remediation that has to take place um there is a lot that is involved with it um so it's not a it there's a huge cost that's associated with that and with remediation right now and the lack of labor it's going to be tough to find a firm that'll come out and and do the remediation that has to be done you know it's a asbestos and pcb laden uh capacitors and stuff like that so yeah so yes we are looking we're aware of that a lot of us sitting up here went to elementary school there so yes yes but but thank you for uh your response certainly and thank you everyone again for allowing me at that time thanks bill thank you [1:07:14] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay we'll get into the consent agenda consent agenda may be adopted under one motion as presented or may be removed for discussion the resolution is council business for you at home and in the audience i'll go through the consent agenda item a just incorrect claims for the accounting period ending december 31st 2021 item b justin correct claims for the accounting period ending january 14 2022 see the minute meetings for the july 4th 2022 city council meeting item d resolution 2608 authorizing a public hearing on the 2022 city of cannes falls small cities development program application ime approved the election of the 2022 fire department officers item f resolution 2609 accepting a monetary donation from the cannon falls fire department relief association for three thousand dollars to the fire department resolution 2610 approving a lot split for pid number 52 and rezoning for the portion of the lot east of 63rd avenue contingent on final sale sale item h resolution 2611 approving the conditional use permit for peter beaudet at 410 hickory drive an item i resolution 2612 approving the administrative permit for david iverson at 301 fifth street south apartment one is there anything the council would like to pull down if not i take a motion to approve the consent agenda [1:09:15] Mayor Matt Montgomery: so moved [1:09:16] Council Member Bill Bringold: second [1:09:17] Mayor Matt Montgomery: motion by montgomery is second by bringgold to approve the consent agenda is there any discussion all in favor opposed carried okay council business resolution 26 13 is the final plan approval for the keller bartman apartment complex being proposed at 415 hickory drive jon you want to finish that [1:09:54] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: sure i'll take the zoning part of it we did present this to the planning commission at their last meeting they did approve the final plans and to recommend them to the city council there's a couple of items that are left to be discussed one of them was under the there's an easement that we got drafted for water main heading over towards mcdonald's we've got to figure out what we're going to do with that if it we get a water main break and then there'll be some other small things that one of them was the easement for mcdonald's has got to get redrafted sometimes you guys got to get that figured out and some other miscellaneous stuff but that will come in a developer's agreement at the next meeting when we adopt the final reading of the pud ordinance right now i'll turn it over to bill and he'll discuss the final plans that were approved at the planning commission [1:10:40] City Engineer Bill Angerman: well short and sweet they addressed all the items in our review letter you know except for the ones jon mentioned there so the engineering recommendation is for the council to approve conditional upon the items that jon mentioned so okay any more questions any discussion if not i take a motion to approve resolution 26 13. [1:11:21] Mayor Matt Montgomery: so moved [1:11:22] Council Member Mary Jill Gizme: second [1:11:23] Mayor Matt Montgomery: a second motion by montgomery is second by gizme to approve resolution 2613 which is the final plan approval for carol keller bartman apartment complex any other discussion hearing none all in favor opposed carried okay reports i see kyle's not here tonight i do have um kyle did call me earlier and she wanted me to relay some information on her behalf and now i have to find it thank you gentlemen [1:12:09] City Clerk Sara Peer: there is an informational chamber meeting next thursday january 27th at four o'clock at grand stay hotel and that is for anyone that is maybe interested in becoming a chamber member any new chamber members or current chamber members so think of it as a network opportunity so i'm not sure how long the event would last but it'll cover basically the chamber's mission statement the purpose and the values of it it'll go over any of the benefits and services the the dues categories and fees membership registration the event sponsorship listing it'll also talk about the discover guide chamber dollars merchant lists the calendar of events and also introduce the the ambassador program so she just wanted me to pass that along to anyone that is watching from afar so okay uh how long is your your eda what do we got [1:13:00] Council Member Laura Kronenberger: um well we had a chamber of breakfast this morning so we kind of did our state of the city um just kind of talked about some of our goals for um eda and talked about how we'll be doing some um business you know business visits will be one of our top priorities now that we'll be kind of actually get to be out and about a little bit more hopefully this year and visiting with our current loan recipients and then looking for other opportunities that we can promote our revolving loan fund to help our businesses grow if they're looking to expand um and just concentrating on trying to figure out our housing um for canada falls so i'll leave it at that [1:13:50] Council Member Mary Jill Gizme: okay thank you planning commission mr gizme got to get my thing up planning commission met on monday of last week and we approve pretty much everything from there tonight we we put the final plan approval move that forward to the council to approve the conditional use permit for peter beaudet to put in a drive-through at subway we discussed that and sent that forward for approval that was approved tonight the lot split on bob banks's property uh we approved the lot split and the rezoning for rezoning just the east side of 60 third avenue and the the other part of the lot will be split off and stayed with urban reserve right oh boy okay nice job and was that it did it [1:15:50] City Clerk Sara Peer: just a little bit of a paperwork shovel shuffle to put the garage as part of lot one or apartment one i'm sorry and that was forwarded to the city council which was approved tonight also i think that's it [1:16:02] City Staff/Attorney: just to update everyone the supreme court did kill the federal mandate so based on the council's action at the last meeting the city does not have any uh mandate on mass or vaccination or testing for its employees so if something were going to come up it would have to be a new item as of now that is all dead [1:16:40] City Administrator Jon Radermacher: just one item i was informed today that uh um we're one step closer in the legislature for john birch park um we got on the governor's uh list so we're uh one step closer awesome let's keep the momentum yeah [1:16:50] Mayor Matt Montgomery: okay let's go laura anything tonight matt i'm just gonna go with what staff said and say thank you to everybody the hard work that laura put in uh the members of the bears uh all the time that we spent at uh park boards talking about what we can do with john birch park and now to know that thanks to the governor we are one step closer we just got to rely on the congress now and and wait for the final approval um so that that is a big hurdle and that's um you know almost 500 000 that our city will not be uh on the hook for so but john birch park this is the hundred year project something that we see that has to happen and it feels great to know that we're that much closer bill uh nothing derek mary jill no steve [1:17:34] Council Member Steven Althoff: uh one thing and i hate to keep repeating myself but dog on it staff your boys are doing such a good job out there i tell you what saturday morning you guys were all done by sunup weren't you plowing yeah what time did you come on that night midnight various times yeah a couple times you went past nothing but good reviews from everybody and i think yeah really they're passing it on to the guys that actually do it [Laughter] that's all i got [1:18:20] Mayor Matt Montgomery: well just uh what staff was talking about about the legislature you know we really had fun that day it was laura and i and staff and bucky lindau and keith myers and we met with the legislators down in redwing on their bonding bus tour they called it and we gave out popcorn and cracker jacks and we had our signs what the before and after things were going to look like and on the wall and laura worked on that and i'll tell you there was other people there but we had their undivided attention that day so it really went good so hopefully uh they do something in the legislation that's great other than that uh one the only meeting that we got coming up before our next council meeting is is the trail board meets on the 25th of january so that's the only one and that being said i take a motion of adjourn [1:19:05] Council Member Bucky Lundell: motion by lundell [1:19:06] Mayor Matt Montgomery: second montgomery all in favor aye opposed carrie can i talk to you