thank you and welcome to the august 17th 2021 virtual meeting of the greensboro city council due to the heightened coveted concern city council will be meeting virtually until further notice public speakers must continue to register via the jot form on the city's website www.greensborohyphennc.gov deadline for submissions is 5 p.m the day prior to meeting i'd like to take a roll call vote to confirm attendance obviously i am here um mrs hightower here dr wells here mr outling mrs hoffman here mrs thurm here mayor pro tem president mary kay abusa waiter president and lastly i have um a letter from michelle she is not on the um on the zoom call tonight but she did send me an email to share with city council dear mayor vaughn and my fellow citizens it has been my great honor to represent the people of greensboro as an at-large member of the greensboro city council i have worked hard over these last few years to live up to the expectations that voters had when they elected me that is why it is bittersweet that i submit my resignation from council effective today august 17th 2021 i am sorry to be leaving before the end of my term however i am excited to continue the work of building a better community for all greensboro residents i am grateful to have had the opportunity to serve um we must accept ms kennedy's resignation and i need a motion and a second move to accept her resignation so it is moved by mayor pro tem johnson and seconded by mrs therm we will have to do a roll call vote i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes i love you mrs thurm um yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero thank you we will talk about um how that position will be filled at a at a later date we will now move on to the business portion of our agenda voting will be conducted by roll call vote as council considers consent public hearing and business items each council must vote unless there is a direct conflict we do have a very long agenda this evening and we have lots of people signed up to speak so we want to make sure that they have an opportunity council members should remain muted to minimize distracting background noises councils should request to speak by physically raising their hand to prevent multiple people speaking at one time council will verbally make a motion and a second we do allow for speakers to address city council council respects the right for the public to speak and we welcome about matters of concern that can be addressed by council each speaker will be allotted three minutes comments that seem to be intended to incite unlawful behavior will be deemed out of order to we do allow and welcome speakers to address counsel at the public forum meeting council respects the right for the public to speak about matters of concern that can be addressed by council each speaker will be allotted three minutes comments that seem to be intended to incite unlawful behavior will be deemed out of order zoom participants are requested to mute their microphones until they are called upon to speak in order to be considered written comments must be submitted online through our website www.greensborohyphennc.gov zoningmatters do allow for a 15-minute presentation both for and against through zoning there is also a five-minute rebuttal period all zoom participants must remain muted while others have been identified to speak once an item has been completed the meeting host will remove speakers for said item guests are encouraged to watch the remainder of the meeting via the greensboro television network or through the city's website we have a consent agenda for items e1 through e20 which are a grouping of agenda items that are voted on with one single vote to expedite what are believed to be routine and non-controversial items any mem any council member may withdraw an item from the consent agenda due to a conflict of interest or for the purpose of voting no items removed from the consent agenda for discussion will be placed on the september city council business agenda this meeting does include closed captioning depending on the length of tonight's meeting we may take a short recess around 7 30. staff has requested to postpone items f12 f13 f14 f15 x16 and f17 proceeding of the public hearing on bonds authorizing housing bonds parks and recreation bonds firefighting facility bonds law enforcement facility bonds and transportation item number 19 is a public hearing for refunding of the coliseum and determination coliseum complex limited obligation bonds series 2014 and 2018 a and item g one a resolution making certain findings and determinations regarding the proposed refinancing of certain outstanding bonds of the city of greensboro north carolina relating to the city's coliseum complex and requesting that local government commission to approve the financing arrangement these will be moved to the regular council meeting on august 31st to allow for proper advertising i know that was an awful lot but i do need a motion and a second don't move moved by mrs hightower seconded by see mrs johnson um we will um madam clerk will this be a roll call call vert call vote yes please okay um so i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes this is hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs therm yes and dr wells yes thank you so those will be moved to the august 31st agenda we will now move on to our consent agenda which are items e1 through e20 do i have a motion the consensus of the item so it is moved by mrs hoffman seconded by mrs thurm um and this will be a um a recorded vote madam clerk yes ma'am okay so we're gonna try this i would ask the public to be patient while we are moving to a different escribe system um this will be the first time we're using it virtually [Music] how do i get to the i seconded it on the e-scribe okay so while while that is coming up we still um according to the legislature we still have to take um votes uh verbally so i am yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuse waiter yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes so the consent agenda does pass eight to zero and it shows up that way on the escribe so that was a success thank you we now move on to the public hearing portion of our agenda there were no written comments received for the august 17th 2021 council meeting we do have um 27 speakers signed up to participate in tonight's public hearing the first items are f1 and f2 f1 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for property located at 206 wolf trail road 9.985 acres anthony and emma gene farrar and item f2 a public hearing for original zoning 206 bulk trail roll road chris gun ride for anthony farrar this item was postponed from the july 20th city council meeting without further advertising we do have um one speaker in favor and 10 in opposition but mr kirkman could you give us a brief overview please yes i'd be happy to mayor vaughan uh the request is for approximately 9.985 acres located north of wolfshell road east of randleman road and south of interstate 85. the current zoning is county ag agricultural and rs 30 residential single family and the request is to go to city cdrm 26. north of the request is currently zoned county rs30 and county ag each of the quest is on county ag with city cd-rm 18 further to the east south of request county rs30 west request is owned county rs30 county ag and city r3 residential single family the property current contains a single family dwelling in undeveloped land north of the request is interstate 85 east of the request is undeveloped land with multi-family development further to the east south and request is single family dwellings and west of the quest are single family dwellings and undeveloped land the property is currently designated as both commercial and residential on the future land use map of the comprehensive plan and its urban general on the future built format i do have a brief video here to give you some ideas of the area so you're running so this is looking at the corner of wolfshell road and randleman road kinda looking to the east the house in the foreground as part of the subject property the house is to your left along randleman road are adjacent but not part of the subject site you can also see now looking further to the east of site that is being cleared and ready for multi-family development the highway interstate is also to your left we're now moving along randleman road so you can see the single-family homes that are adjacent to the subject property and we're coming up now where randall monroe crosses interstate 85. next we're moving along the interstate so again the subject property is on your right kind of wedged in between the single-family residential and the properties to your left that will be developed for multi-family are these apartments they're going to build apartments the area that is cleared out that's uh shown yes that is apartments zone cds yes they've actually got the pad the parking areas down this haven't built them you can also see here additional single-family residential uh on the other side of random road your subject property is on your left at this point as we're looking west along the highway and now we're flying along the eastern portion of the subject site looking back to the west randleman road will be on the top of the screen at this point we're coming back down on wolf churro road you'll be able to see some of the single family that is adjacent on the opposite side of the street as well single-family residential that portion is in the county the property is in random and road are in the city and again that area that's cleared out to your right on that image that is where a new multi-family project is being built you can also see across the highway in the distance commercial area that's the the lows in the walmart shopping centers the application was advertised with one condition which is the first part of condition number one the applicant is asking for additional conditions this evening be added to the request i will note council that condition number one has been amended further from the information that we previously submitted to you the applicant requested an additional change so i will read all of those into the record and then ask the council approve those additional conditions for this request so condition number one shall read building height shall be limited to a maximum 50 feet additionally any building located along the western boundary of the site shall be limited to a maximum height of 40 feet new condition number two says uses shall be limited to a maximum of 200 multi-family residential dwelling units new condition number three the required landscape buffer width along the western property boundary shall be a minimum of 20 feet all new required planting materials within this required buffer shall be of evergreen material to ensure year-round screening and new condition number four additionally a minimum six foot tall where allowed opaque fence consisting of wood or materials that simulate the appearances of wood shall be installed along the western property line so it has council to accept those conditions okay so i believe it was moved by mrs hightower and seconded by mrs thurm um we will take a roll call vote i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abu's waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outlink yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells and she waved her hand so that does pass eight to zero thank you in terms of stats recommendation again the property is designated as urban general on the feature built form map in both commercial residential and future land use map staff has concluded the proposed original zone request does support the comprehensive plans creating great places gold to expand greens for a citywide network of unique neighborhoods offering residents of all walks of life a variety of quality housing choices and the building community connections goal to maintain stable attractive and healthy places to live and raise families the proposed cd rm 26 zoning district would allow expanded residential options that are compatible with the various residential uses located nearby and staff was recommending approval of the request the annexation in the original zoning for this case was heard by the uh zoning the zoning commission at their june meeting uh on a vote of four to three it was recommended approval for both the enemy station and original zoning at that point in time there was one speaker in favor and three in opposition i could answer any questions thank you mr kirkman um we will start with the applicant and um that is i'm chris agundred and i'm sorry i'm sure i couldn't do your name justice yeah excuse me if everybody who is not speaking if they would please mute themselves thank you i apologize thank you good evening mayor vaughan members of the city council my name is chris ogden rinde i'm with urban trains real estate inc tonight i represent the petitioners i have probably listening on the on the line is uh my two partners kevin pleasant and richard payne uh thank you for uh allowing us to uh present make our case to council uh the site we are talking about was 206 a wolf trail has been we filed a petition back in april next slide please keep going thank you next slide so as uh that was presented earlier uh site is smacking between four roads and not to the north i-85 uh to the east is south elm eugene street west randleman road and of course wolf trail road to the south next slide uh site is 9. almost 10 acres currently as on agriculture and um and next to a single family homes to the west along a wolf trail next slide so now i will stay on the development considerations and before you go to this one so uh when we first put this property on the contract uh one of the first things that we do is basically uh review uh future land use maps and uh spoke with with staff uh talked about with it discuss the um the comp plan and as was mentioned earlier a future land use map i recommended residential and of course uh we all know uh most of our cities are growing rapidly with young folks that are coming to to seek employment and um we looked at existing utility we looked at transportation access and all those things kind of informed uh the development pattern that we are seeking tonight next slide this slide really shows uh basically the timeline of uh where we've been and and how we got here tonight um as i mentioned earlier we we uh filed our application in april and uh received uh some comments uh from staff in may uh sent our mailing list to uh to a list of adjacent property owners uh in also in may for a community meeting uh because of zoom we had to have that online a virtual and we had that in june and we appeared before the zoning committee in june as well had another meeting with the community because folks said some folks didn't get noticed so we set up another one and we had that meeting and a subsequent meeting also in july and when we realized that the community had strong composition we say well we requested from staff for deferral about 30 days which allowed us to have additional meetings and dialogue with the community and i have to also stop here and just commend uh councilwoman hightower for stepping in to help i wouldn't say immediate but kind of arrange discussions with the community and also commend members of the community for for i mean asking for what they wanted and some things we agreed upon and some we weren't able to agree upon but i think we had uh lengthy discussions heated discussions and uh which uh which is necessary to to come to a solution that uh that best serves the community of wolf trail in greensboro community at large and of course we are before you tonight next slide our first submission um was a proposal to build up to 260 units of multi-family i think that one had about 50 home units all for rent product and a mixture of one two and three bedroom units as requested uh of course uh the ordinance requests that we had above 15 feet which is consistent with the local ordinance accessibility will come from wolf trail and the traffic impact analysis is recommended that we provide turning lanes who basically uh for folks that want to turn into this uh community can um get away from traffic that way it does not clog uh the wolf wolf trail um after uh all the discussions with the community uh one of the is some of the issues that that the community raised uh about traffic the density was uh was an issue um and then a huge one was um homeownership and um so we looked at those numbers and and we we uh glad to say that we went back to our plans and revised the plans to if you go to the next slide list and this is a mixture of uh uh for sale products the townhomes uh the the colored in yellow and um [Music] and and and our goal is to uh to sell those and then uh we are keeping uh three of uh excuse me four buildings uh uh of compartments uh in this in this brand um they can still stick in r26 but we've we've reduced the density from 260 to 200 units we've increased the buffer along the western property line which is behind the single family homes uh from 15 to 20 feet again consisting of plantings and six foot tall opaque fencing we will locate all the townhomes adjacent to the property line um a maximum of two stories uh two-story structures and um and i will position the higher density three-story apartment buildings uh towards the eastern side such that it's so far away from the single-family homes that uh you wouldn't even see that next slide please and um and one of the other issues that the community raised was that okay what are you going to build you're not showing us anything and one thing that's hard to do is you you you do not uh we don't design things until we know that this reason is there but so we had to go create uh some conceptual images of what we envisioned to build here it'll be a craftsman style design and uh the two the image on the right is um uh two-story townhomes it'll be uh with porches it'll be for sale product and um and then the the the image left will be uh three-story walk-up unit uh apartment uh style um [Music] now the one thing that we have to stress also is that all of these are let me let me just interject something um i believe the city attorney would say that we can only accept these drawings for illustrative purposes but they're not actually conditioned that's correct right that's correct right but we we have to show it because the neighbor insisted that we show the character of what we're proposing to build and in summary um i want to say it i i sense the frustration of the community that it says that they say that we have too many multi-family units you're going to hear that from the from the um opposition uh the opposition however they also say that we need shopping experiences like like other people have and as a developer one of the things that that commercial developers look for especially when looking for grocery and coffee shops are rooftops and they look at income diversification and what we propose tonight brings that to this community and uh we hope that council will uh see this favorably and uh we seek as we seek approval for this petition thank you and then i'll stop and ask and take any questions i i do have two questions so you have reduced the um density from 260 to 200 yes we have and i think you mentioned something about home ownership um but i didn't see that in the conditions that um some units would be home ownership and others would be rental and i'm not sure if that can be considered but mr city attorney can you help me out on that home ownership versus mayor i had asked that question as well and i think mr kirkman if the city attorney can i think mike can address that as well um because that was one of my i'll defer to the city attorney for the opinion okay there you go so will you restate the question so everybody can be fewer since commentaries happen so during the presentation it said that a portion of the housing would be for sale and the other part would be for rent i don't see that in a condition um can that be considered um can we consider um home ownership versus rental so i would advise you not to make that into a condition related to this i understand that may be a practice that the applicant is seeking but we want to um i don't think that's the condition that the city can impose that our city should be in the process of preferring one to another we should allow it to be open for whoever comes okay um so even though it was mentioned that a portion would be for sale um that certainly then doesn't make it binding if there's no condition that says x units are for sale and x units are for rent correct mary it's not a sort of condition of this it's not conditional zoning based on that it's a statement that amplifies what they are planning to do but it is not a condition that the zoning gets withdrawn if something changes about that okay [Music] um we do have we do have a number of speakers in opposition and i'll read them all out i don't know if you have a lineup that you prefer there is a combined time of 15 minutes so just keep that in mind as you're speaking we have harold timmons regina timmons dale finocchi eddie falcone charlene watson deborah barnes sharon watson gene dulin alberto rodriguez and tony blue so you can start off in any order you would like but there is a combined total of 15 minutes you will have a five minute rebuttal hello this is harold timmond i will go ahead on and i will start off um i noticed that i know you said you haven't seen it can you turn your camera on yes i'm sorry about that thank you yes i know she said well we have a maximum of 15 minutes i know that the developer was given a total of 10 minutes alone is there any possibility that that could be extended one uh two if not um i'll just proceed uh onward i did submit a powerpoint presentation i only want to speak probably to slide one and slide 15 for the sake of time i don't know if you if if you don't have that don't worry about it i will just go i'll go on um mr kirkman do you happen to have that presentation and you're not penalized for questions that are being asked when it comes to time madam mayor i did submit that to gtn to have on standby for us okay i'll just proceed and we'll we'll figure it out as we go um i'm speaking on behalf of the residents and owners of 3439 random road long-term family that the property has been in their family for probably close to 100 years now they so the proposed project will be abutting our real property line so we are very concerned about what it's going to do to to our our property values what it's going to do to our you know lifestyle our ability to use the property and there's a map there and so what you're seeing now is a map i put together and what it shows is that there are four existing apartment complexes within a half mile of that red triangle uh number five is currently under construction number six is the subject property we're talking about today and number seven is a property that's adjacent it's for sale and if this prop project is approved there's no reason why we should think that number seven would also be approved as apartments as well so in essence what we would end up with is seven apartment complexes within a half mile of our location and we think that that is certainly an inundation of apartment complexes and certainly not a positive thing for the area if whoever is controller will go to slide 15 i would appreciate it just flip through one more okay what you what i have here is i have some conditions that is that are for a previous zoning case on the marshall smith road that i have been discussing and sharing with the developer i shared it with them because this was a pro this is a project similar to how's in that it started out at over 600 apartment units but through the efforts of the community council and pressure being placed on the developer the number of apart the number of units total units went down significantly most importantly though which we want to have here as we would we would very much like to have single family homes duplexes twin homes or townhouses be a part of the restrictive mix of the units that are allowed on this particular property and that was not provided and the conditions that were provided to you uh they also make mention of an exhibit b the site plan that the developer just recently showed the very last one they had the townhouses could have been or could have been or should be as an exhibit just as this developer has done here as well so given that i have prepared some remarks based on this but what i will move to and basically say that given the fact that the developer has talked about units for sale and is still seemed to be committed to doing the townhouses on the prop on the property what i would say is that um the product the the use of townhouses i think would be a good idea but only if they're going to be done in accordance with the definition of townhouses as it relates to the city of greensboro which means that one town house one designated lot if the developer is going to go through that process of of placing them on lots i had some slides previously that i decided to skip for the sake of time that showed some of the layouts of different townhouse projects that are in the city of greensboro if they're on their own individual lots they can both be sold and or leased and i think that would be a much more positive aspect i also think that even as the property is situated given the amount of square footage on the property i run some rough calculations and just a total townhouse project itself with lots that are 20 feet by 50 feet could potentially support upwards of 200 units so i think that that was something that should have been looked at more and we were having a conversation about that and i think that if we had continued to converse a little longer maybe we could could have come to a a better mix as far as we're concerned uh in terms of the number of uh townhouse units or rental units or units that could be potentially sold we think that for sale units is very important in this neighborhood because right now as you can see wolf trail road is and and the in the area itself is inundated with apartment complexes apartment units and we need you know to solidify the community and keep it from turning to a transitional community a community that is based on residences that are not car optional but car dependent the lack of public transportation in the area we think that more home ownership opportunities should be provided and that would also help to work to meet the the deaf the the goal of the common plan of trying to have diverse housing options there's no diverse housing options along with trail road it's just departments and there and the approval of this will continue that to provide nothing but apartments so we implore this council to give it serious consideration to even deny the request or ask for a continuance of this request to either allow continued discussions with developer or send the message that we don't need more apartments we need a more of a mix we need more home ownership and with that i'm going to conclude because i know there are some other people that want to speak but you i don't want to use up all of the time since we only allowed 15 minutes i think dale for no he might want to speak next thank you thank you and we'll stop the clock until he mr finocchi yes hi okay you ready yes my name is dale finnocki and i'm a resident of the city of greensboro um and i've been a city planner in private practice i live in 2028 walker avenue um and and harold is a colleague of mine that i've worked with for a very long time and and he asked me to look at this with him and i've looked into it and and the issues that i have about this and i told him i approached was like well they want to do what you know don't i can't just necessarily say i'm going to be against it but the more and more i dive into this it's not even so much being against it it's just the process of what's going on here it really much concerns me as a planner and as a resident of the city of greensboro um the just the one-off concept of the annexation and then doubled with it being a rezoning to a much higher um than what it currently is um and not into the default zoning district that it would become without rezoning with just the annexation but the there's just not the the the way it's organized here with the way wolf trail is if you look at the map and i wish i could show you that um and i had something but i but i did not send it in in time they're the size that's the randleman road which is very much what this development is um is so much different than the side where the apartments are now on el muji um that those have what it's a wider street it's got lights and turning lanes and it looks more commercial it is more commercial it can handle more traffic this complex even more so than the one that's being developed right now um is going to definitely use the randleman roadside and if you were to take your going to google earth to zoom down to the street level and look at the intersection of wolf trail and in raymond road it's a country road it's two lanes it's got one hanging light there's no left turn signal and you're gonna have 200 plus units going in and out turning left in off of grandma onto wolf trail and then left into the complex this is going to be a nightmare from the beginning if you don't have the developer address that issue it's going to be a burden of the city to have to fix that that um that that traffic so right then it there that in and of itself concerns me enough to where this should be a no-go and i don't know what traffic um things were looked at and how they came up with they just need a left turn laying into the complex off a wolf trail but if someone thinks that that that intersection that randall and wolf trail is not going to be impacted by this they're living in a state of delusion um and so that very much needs to be looked into it i don't think it can be ignored at all to me that's the show stopper there's no reason to move forward it has to be addressed and it has to be the developer should have to improve it otherwise it's a burden of the citizens um to do that um with taxpayer money and and that's the biggest issue really is i think it's a little too dense for this side on random and the way randleman is now um it may be future use all commercial they're wrong reynolds but it is not right now it's mostly single family homes um it's not even multi-family homes um and his last concept i think that's a new thing that he presented to folks that's out of the blue with the town homes and the concept of ownership i think that's getting in the right direction but if you were to approve it tonight you know we got to realize that besides those four conditions you're approving a piece of property to come into the city and to be rezoned as multi-family residential the only restriction that that property is going to have are those four small conditions and then they can do whatever the code allows them to do in that district there's they don't have to make it look any way they don't have to do any kind of um design they don't have to do the townhouses he can present that but there's nothing that's going to restrict him to bring in townhouses or to do anything differently it's just going to be what's required in the zoning district so i i i beg you to get maybe table this put it put it off let's get the the site plan short up more get a better understanding of exactly what's going to be done on the property before we bring it into the city as far as i understand at least it is in most other states i spent most of my practice in virginia and um in maryland but it was rezoning and annotation or legislative actions they're requests you don't have to approve them um and there's no there's no there's no action that the applicant can take against you if you design it it's a simple legislative action you either want this property in the city right now or you don't and you either want it rezoned to that new zoning district or you don't there's nothing that compels you to do this it's it's something that you want to do because it's good for all of us it's good for them and i think that's something that needs to be considered thank you thank you the rodriguez would you plan to go next and if we would stop the clock while they're getting yes ma'am madam mayor i have and i just want to make um them aware that they have four minutes left four minutes did you say yes ma'am thank you mr rodriguez yes good evening madam mayor uh city council uh thank you for allowing us to have this platform to express our concerns um i'm in opposition of this development i'm a 30-year member or resident of the city of greensboro i own 3449 and 3443 adjacent to this proposed development my opposition is uh because of the density and the tren the non-transparency for the development developer during his presentation i think his presentation was weak um and it doesn't fall in line with the 2040 uh city of greensboro plan where you have uh in many instances it states that you want community buy-in there is no community buy-in for this project um i'm not in in uh in opposition of development i'm i'm a uh employer in the city of greensboro winston-salem i'm also a 37-year member of the armed forces and and i'm very concerned with the the traffic impact the impact to the community the lack of police officers i believe that the the developer needs to consider some type of homeownership project so that way you know he says that the young people are not looking to cut grass or i i would defer i would i would say that's not true i have two young sons and they would love to to own a piece of property that they can call theirs and and have home ownership and be proud of that right now the city of greensboro is growing but i can't see why we can't have a better mixed use of the properties that are within the city and i strongly uh urge you to consider our requests um i also appreciate the time uh allowed it to us to express our concerns thank you very much thank you madam clerk how much time is left two minutes is there another speaker who would like to speak in opposition regina timmons or deborah barnes hi i'm deborah barnes uh good evening mayor vaughan and members of the city council can you put your your camera on oh yes i can hold on yes good evening again and um i'm speaking in opposition uh i have um property my sisters and i at 3439 random road and the proposed development would butt right up against our property line my concern is the over saturation the density of what this apartment complex would bring uh we are for home ownership we have another safety issue i have an aunt and a sister and other family members that live right against this property by putting up trees and maybe some fencing uh people will still be able to walk through their backyards to get to random enrolled people will not take the long way around they will insist on making a trap through the backyards and that's a safety concern i just don't feel good about that from my aunt who's 90 years old for sisters and other relatives and people that live along random roads you know we want to be valued we want and we need city council to in 30 seconds that we do have mixed apartments and home ownership we are too dense we would love to have fresh market panera bread those types of things also about your area so please consider uh holding off discussions maybe a few more discussion with the with the um developer and getting something more toward making it sound for the time has expired thank you thank you um we now have a five minute rebuttal period from the applicant i'm gonna mute myself thank you very much and um thank you mayor so i want to just take some of those items that uh that was listed as uh in opposition by one one at a time let me start with uh traffic and originally when we first filed this petition we were looking at acquiring two parcels which combined total will be 20 acres uh one of the requirements staff said was you have to basically order a traffic analysis which uh at the time the total number of units would have been 400 and the analysis said all we needed to do was provide those turning lanes which would have basically uh dealt with what they thought was going to be [Music] additional traffic flow through the community from 400 down to 200 we're still providing the same turning lane to address those issues community came back and said well why don't you guys deal with the traffic light um and the last meeting we had there was a representative from uh greensboro department of transportation they said that traffic light is controlled by this state and and i and i proposed to the community i said as a neighbor if we if we are successful with this rezoning we want to be able to be part of helping to solve some of these issues that a community is facing and i'm a planner to answer to to uh respond back to mr fenocci i'm an architect by training i'm a planner and i'm very very sensitive to the issues that the face community when we're actually doing these rezonings i don't practice anybody i'm a developer now and and that's why it was so important that we engage the community through this series of meetings and of course i don't know if we're ever going to get to a point where the community accepts what we propose saying that we need single family and townhomes we have to make sure the market number one uh was supported we've done some initial market analysis that says town homes in this area comps are like 150 000 and if you all know how much material costs today last year this time plywood was ten dollars a sheet in today's market it went as high as fifty dollars a sheet and for us to build all town homes and single family which is not going to make economic sense so we said let's meet us all in the middle we'll build uh 80 units for sale of course we have to work with um and councilwoman haitar introduces us to miss sophia uh crisp and sofia chris is going to introduce us to somebody at this city um to see if we can figure out a way to either seek some soft gap financing to make this a reality uh and we say well let's see if we can put it as a condition staff say you cannot so i'm not sure what else the name they keep saying we want home ownership we are proposing home ownership and uh so i just respectfully disagree with some of the comments i would make tonight and we've had serious meeting we actually met in person in greensboro to to have this conversation and uh so um that's that's my rebuttal and uh i'd be glad to to answer any questions yes this is regina timmons i have a question well it's not no it's not your turn yet um are there are there um any questions for the applicant from council um i have a question um some of the opposition made a comment about um the conceptual designs you presented which you presented at the last zoom meeting that we met at and i think we've had a total of what four meetings we probably have five or six five yeah um can he make that in an attachment on an exhibit or somebody mentioned that i mean is that part of a package and i'm asking staff maybe that's not a question for us i know conditions have already been approved but i'm just saying generally does that happen um because somebody meant maybe mr paul mrs hightower i think generally they can say that construction what the construction materials would be um whether you know it's it's wood or brick or whatever but i don't i don't know that the drawings can be considered okay okay yeah because i know we're talking about land use and apparently i don't really hear any issues around land use um but i think the community was looking for some comfort level which i do understand the concern but i was just wondering within itself um the conceptual um drawings would that be something that trc would handle or will they be part of a package listing materials i i don't know that's why i was asking mike can you end oh there you go yeah after mr kirkman mrs johnson and dr wells um to answer your question councilman hyde tower what is approved as conditions is what trc can apply and enforce that's part of the reason we have conversations with the developers to make sure that the warding is something that we can enforce with that any illustrations that are of illustrative nature would not be part of the plan review process on there okay okay thank you mrs johnson um i want to understand this um i i'm not sure i i i got mixed up but can't you put in your conditions that um x number of places will be for sale and that's not in there that bothers me i will not support this in in if that is not a part of a condition i may not support it anyway but i definitely will not support it if that's not a part of the condition i think that we should go back excuse me i'm sorry i thought you were finished with yourself i think i think with that that this should be tabled i think they should go back in negotiation and if that can be a part of condition and they're serious about it it should be a part of it i need to advise the council that ownership or tenure has been struck down by two state supreme court cases as consideration in land use case you can consider it multi-family or single family but who lives and how they pay their rent or their pain cannot be considered and there's one u.s supreme court case that's too bad so that is not um allowable or is it i guess council could put it in but it is not defensible it is not permissible to be enforced um in that regard dr wells i just wanted to ask a question when we looked at the uh the area view there was one house that was on the lot was any of the people who were complaining did any of them live in that house or what about that house you know i answered that question yes please uh that house is actually uh we we have that uh uh to to be purchased as well so and they are not complaining they actually don't live uh they travel that person travels a lot and it's like oh i i don't spend enough time there anyway so we are going to be purchasing that and that is the owner of the property for sale um sorry right now we're only hearing from the applicant the opposition will have five minutes is um counsel any further questions or should we move on to the opposition for five minutes okay um and i don't know if there is a um an order you would like to speak but you have a total of five minutes in opposition i'd like to say something quickly if i can yes i would just and i understand the concept of we can't do the home ownership but i think the biggest thing that the community is this concept of the townhomes and the mix of townhomes and apartments is a new content coming out of the developer if he's willing to condition that and if that's a condition that can be made that he will limit it to four apartment buildings on the one side and the rest townhomes regardless of how they're rented or sold that's not really that all that relevant to the development um in the density issue i think that's something that at least in my mind should be acceptable um the ownership of it if he wants to sell them that's a great thing and it would be great for him to do that we can't condition that but if we can do something that just solidifies that there will be town homes and apartments not just rm whatever the district is and i can't remember the name of it because that gives us his no no restrictions he can develop however he chooses whatever he drew and showed us it just won't matter it's illustrative like the planer said um any other speakers yes this is regina timmons and i own property at the 3439 random road and mayor can you follow up excuse me can you put your camera on yes i own property as well at 3439 random and road and just to follow up on the mayor's comment as well as others around the conditions i understand what's been said about the conditions but also in the meetings when we were in the with the developers recently as last week we had we kept hearing a caveat from the developers saying that they want to create the town homes for sale if the numbers could work if the numbers could work and we asked when will you know whether the numbers work and we were we were the reply was we hope we will know by today and tuesday so right now we still have no sense of comfort it's not in the conditions we don't know whether the numbers work or not so although it's been stated that there's some level of intent around um having home ownership in this mix there's there's there's nothing that gives us any comfort level and i would just like to appeal to the council to not just think about numbers making numbers work or getting more tax revenue think about the quality of life for your residents in this community and how much you are agreeing to bring apartments into this area in a half mile radius five six seven apartment think about if you would want that in your area in a half mile radius and looking into your backyard and i just appeal to your heart not just your numbers appeal to your heart and your sense of community and value and making sure we have a quality of life in this area thank you madam clerk how much time do we have left two minutes and 24 seconds two minutes and 24 seconds anybody else in opposition yes this is harold timmons um in terms of the developers uh proposal to do town houses if the townhouses are done uh in accordance with the definitions in the ordinance under 30 that's 15.18 that single family attached town home or twin home or the twin home definition on the 3015-19 it basically says that a building consists of two single-family dwelling each dwelling unit occupying its own conventional lot and conveyed by deed and fee simple if the project is going to be designed and recorded in the subdivision plat then those lots then those units can be sold or they can be leased but the way it is proposed right now just to say that they're townhouses they may be townhouse and style but they're not townhouse by definition not by legality and they certainly can't be sold so the question becomes how do they get sold the only way to get sold is if they are designed and they meet the definition that's in the greensboro city zoning orders and if they're going to do it in that fashion that means there's going to be a subdivision plaque created and those lots are going to be recorded and they can be sold or they can be leased so that provides an option and i agree with you sir anybody else in opposition yes hi hi could you turn your camera on uh do i need my camera on i was trying yes okay thank you yes hi do you see this is charlene and uh from 34 charlotte watson falls in 34 39 random road and i know i only have a few more minutes but you know when we pose a question why is the department you know so saturated in this area and our wonderful hard work and councilwoman uh hightower did say because it was a cheater but this just hurt me to my heart and uh because i have lived in this community and this district for over 66 years i love the community of greensboro and i you know this just feels like to me that we are not valued as a community and as a citizen thank you and we're looking at uh money we're valuing money over our citizens so we're ready to roll up our sleeves because i know councilwoman uh hightower will be taking a bus ride out in our area and i would love for everybody to come and take the ride so that you can see we're ready to roll up our seats and do anything that we can to enhance our community and make it the best that we can and make it the shyness uh thank you thank you are there any questions for the opponents from the developer no i have no i haven't no this is just from city council i have a question um and mr timmins has brought this up twice but i i need to hear from staff and i understand chris agreed too um but what is the actual design of townhomes we are building townhomes every day everywhere so and i mean we got them over in willow oaks we got them in various other spots but we don't have a lot of them at the same time so can you speak to what he was talking about under the statue can you help me out with that yeah i'll be happy too so the idea with a town home development is it's a dwelling unit that sits on its own individual lot and then normally there is open space or other areas that are held in common ownership with the homeowners association which is a distinguishing i think from uh as i said earlier when we talked we don't have a definition of an apartment in the uh ordinance it's just multi-family buildings and those multi-family buildings may be multiple buildings on the same lot again with some common area everything under ownership under some kind of an association as well but i think mr timmons question or his point as i understand it was that um a townhome lot is designed so that the lot is around the dwelling unit therefore could be leased or sold if i understand that was he was trying the point he was trying to make but we do not have a separate definition for an apartment in the land development ordinance so you can't condition anything under zoning that references the term apartments it's not a defined term okay it's not a defined term and there's an hoa you know applied to apartments or just town homes there's going to be some kind of a management group typically with an apartment because you're going to have usually some level of common elements uh maybe a stormwater device or the parking areas those kind of things that have to be commonly maintained so there should be some type of management corporation that manages the apartments um i think ms schwartz wanted to add some comments as well i see her on yeah and just to add to the confusion so there's also town home in terms of architecture meaning a a two-story unit that are attached to other units and so we do have town home developments in greensboro that do not have individual lots but is the physical style of a town home so it's further to the confusion of what is a town home there's a town in terms of its look and function and then there is the town home in terms of ownership and management but you could still buy a townhome and that same well if if it is lotted if it is lotted individually that is possible but there are we i said we do have townhomes um in greensboro that are not on they they are built in the style of a town home but they are not individually lotted they have the they are two-story units side by side by you know attached across so but there and then the true town home in terms of ownership has that you own that space and um i'm trying to think because it's been a while since we've had one the how the different pieces work um so i'm hoping that that helps clear it up a little bit there are two different ways that these things function one is the functionality and so it doesn't go up three stories some some communities have um often and said they prefer the townhomes townhouse style because it's only two stories high versus three stories for an apartment others more of the management piece mrs johnson um do we need to close the public hearing before we make any motions well the i just want to see if council members have questions for the opponents i'll wait this is therm no question for the opponents okay so now if we can have a motion to close the public hearing move to close the public hearing second and moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs um i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes this is hightower yes this is hoffman yes yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um i see mrs johnson then mrs thurm huh madam mayor i move that we table this um i think i'd like to see something worked out between the neighborhood and the developer um and if there's any language we can use that's legal [Music] in reference to home ownership i'd like for us to explore that but i i i right now i think it would be helpful if they could meet and and go through some of the things that are bothersome to some of us um mr city attorney mr deputy city attorney can you address that so excuse me some adam mayer and others you can certainly table an item but i think the tabling should be simply a vote about tabling you know the comments and questions about homeownership i understand the passion but i would advise you not to at this stage create rationales and conditions based on home ownership so when you discuss it again you talk about conditions that are allowed that are a part of the action and conditions allowed by the type of zoning that happens um but leave it open to that don't sort of if you will to use the word condition your decision on the ratio of home ownership well i would just say i moved to table um i saw miss thurm had her i think we need to deal with the promotion first so um i would ask the applicant i'm sorry if you could please say your name again another question miss chris rinke chris can you help me it's chris hogan rinday mr ogin rinday would anything be accomplished by tabling how how do you feel about tabling until um our meeting in september at the sec the business meeting in september may i wish i could say yes however i have to listen to what the lawyers advising it if we're going to table just so we can craft a language that is not legally able to be mandated and that i just don't know why we would do that we made a commitment uh people come from hightower to to actually be serious about figuring out how to do this and um we called and uh miss crisp and uh we began because now to the city of greensburg and we want to do what works and the last thing we want to do is just get stuck in uh a condition that that doesn't make sense but we would do everything in our power to bring home ownership to this community and um and and we and but if there's a legal way to do it we would do it but uh from what we're hearing it's it it's not it's not advisable to do that hey i see mrs thurm had her hand up and then mr outling and then mrs hightower yeah and then mrs hoffman i was just going to ask about um i understand that we can't put anything in about as far as a condition about home ownership do we still have the ability to put in a condition regarding the number of town homes or town home style buildings that are there at this time or would we need to postpone for that or how would that work if we could get mike or sue schwartz to what do you say i will try and answer that question and the answer as i understand is no we cannot dictate a specific minimum amount of development or type of development within a zoning condition that's come up in some cases and several years ago and that is the answer is i understand it i'll let mrs schwartz or mr andrews add to that so the account the only an offer of condition zoning to keep it in the condition zoning the only person that can offer conditions is the applicant so it is something he could amend and offer to you and you can accept it by vote to change that but neither the neighborhood nor the council can tell um we want this condition from you that becomes that steps in a very precarious situation but um he can make that offer as a condition thank you that clarifies what i need now and i would ask the attorney maybe to weigh in on that question very quickly about the minimum amount because i think there's some confusion about that absolutely um so when you start getting into you know getting into those kinds of questions uh we certainly have density standards but for as you had as has been sort of explained as we have uh had it here on the meeting tonight we do condition-based zoning when you get toward those categories that you're speaking of you slide over to a category that we do not do here it's actually termed contract zoning that's not what we do so um i think it's best as was said before that the applicant states what they have and you voted sort of up or down as to whether you accept it based on the rationale that we've been provided to you thank you for the clarification mr outling thank you i definitely understand the concerns raised by many people including council member johnson in connection with the desire to table or continue this matter the council's next business meeting uh that said as uh council members certainly know my position with regard to the limited question of whether or not to continue a rezoning matter to another meeting is that unless all of the applicants and all of the community members agree to table it or continue it i don't support continuances i feel like such a standard helps provide consistency and uniformity across the city and everyone can know what to expect and prepare for meetings accordingly so notwithstanding you know my understanding of the concerns and the desires of councilman johnson and others on the narrow question of whether or not to table this to another meeting um i'm not in support of that if it comes to a vote in terms of approving or denying the application i'll address that accordingly thank you um so mrs hightower mrs hoffman and then dr wells excuse me so let me just say that all those questions that you all have asked tonight which are fine have been asked um the number of units couldn't be addressed uh home ownership versus rental couldn't be addressed um there are only certain things according to action that can be addressed when we talk about zone and anything that could be done i would say that the developer was open and willing to do even including reducing the number of units in half this is as it's a touchy subject because i understand the over saturation of apartments in an area and it looks like this particular area maybe not this far out but some further up the road it's been targeted and so the apartment seemed to be the easier answer than it is home ownership um but i think if we you know continue to push back on every single thing i'm afraid of what we make it um we may get something we don't want as what i saw yesterday at a zoning meet is going to come to us very soon and i absolutely don't want it it is not conducive for the area um you know around uh what you know character and neighborhoods look like um i'm very sensitive to the neighbors which is the reason i reached out to them um and we had as many meetings as we did have which you typically don't even have um remember about a couple months ago we had a rezoning developer and nobody never reached out to me perry um and so i wanted to appreciate uh mr chris but i also appreciate the neighbors have they been straight up they've been honest they've been consistent they said what they want uh how they want this community to look and i value and appreciate that uh very much and i want developers to come and respect that um what can legally be done and financially be done is what i would really like for us to get to um i asked mr chris about deferring another 30 days to give opportunity for other discussion and he gave reasons which i forwarded to the opposition as to why not to try to keep the lines of communication open um but i don't know if we're ever going to get to where we can actually guarantee anything i would love for that that i just don't think we're going to be able to get there and legally we can't do it um you know is this the right place for this you know development um maybe we can get him we get him to set the standard uh for other developers to come into our area and understand that community concerns must be considered around that so i tell you it's a tough decision i make tonight to support or not to support um because i do know each side has put in a lot of work but all those concerns and issues that you all have brought up have been addressed labeling deferring number of units all of those things have been talked about in gross detail we've had some zone meetings we've had an in-person meeting um so he the developer did go back and rebuild some things maybe we need to talk more around zoning matters where we have more control what is it that maybe we can change in our zoning that helps us to address some of these major concerns and issues it's just maybe it's a discussion we need to start having more um you know because these things seem to be a great firm for us uh around this but i i'm i'm i'm still afraid of what we might get if we can't get to a better you know to a good place here tonight um there may be somebody who comes and brings a convenience store in the midst of a neighborhood and we certainly we don't want that um so uh i i'm i'm just way into options so right now mrs hoffman um you know i would just make the observation that i think some of the same people we've heard from tonight and some of the same issues were brought up and discussed at the planning and zoning board meeting and this project was approved unanimously by the planning and zoning board um dr wells that was my my two questions did the zoning commission approve it and does it fit into the plan the city's plan uh dr wells to answer your question the the planning and zone commission did approve the request but it was a split vote it was actually four to three all right so what about our plan i think steph concluded in our recommendation that it is consistent with elements of the comprehensive plan but that plan is a robust document and many people can take different aspects of it and apply it in this certain conversation all right so it was not unanimous what the zoning the zoning vote right there was a split vote on that one yes it was a split vote but um we we knew and we talked about this it's always going to be um controversy when there's change we know that we're going to have to have mixed use places we're going to have apartments next to houses if we are growing as a city and people have to have some place to live everybody can't afford a house i i mean to me everybody cannot afford to buy a house but they need some place to live i think the saturation in that area because it's so close to the to the highway people live here and they work all over you know miles away it's easy access to get to the highway to get to where they're where they're going and as the city grows we're gonna have to kind of open our minds a little bit to accept that apartment people there's nothing wrong with people who live in apartments and they'll bring all of the value of our houses down because they live in apartments new york city charlotte raleigh all those places have grown and i know we don't want to become a big big city but people like coming to greensboro they're moving here and they are going to have to have some place to live so i i support housing i really do i know you you feel like it's too many of them too many apartments around and you want more houses and i think we have to think about people that just cannot buy a house and they don't want a big house all they want is a place to live they don't want maintenance they don't want the taxes they don't want all of that so i think we have to think about that too so that's my my opinion about it and i know every time we get to a case where it's a change in a neighborhood we have a lot of pushback and i can understand that but we also have to open our minds that this is a different day and and for us to move forward some of these changes will will come to pass mayor mr cartman a question yes and then miss the booze waiter um you know mike our materials indicate that this was a 7-0 vote by the zoning commission but you say it was what four to three yes and i apologize that there's confusion on that um i think what maybe the problem is that there was a unanimous vote to approve the annexation because it could be served by city services but there was a split vote on the zoning question about the use that's what that station is miss yes waiter yes thank you madam mayor i won't uh repeat everything that everyone said but i do uh agree with dr wells uh miss hoffman hightower everybody who's spoken so far about this um i really think the developer has taken the concerns of the neighborhood very seriously um that's a lot to reduce uh a development by that much and um he reduced the number of apartments uh i know that he can only talk about wanting to do the townhomes but i want everyone to realize even if we were able to put that as a condition which i know we can't but even if we were someone can purchase one of those and rent it out there is nothing stopping anyone who owns a property to my knowledge from uh they they they can rent it out so i'm not even sure uh you know that discussion of course we want people to own homes and own their property but at this day and time it's not always happening because i'll tell you what the millennials um definitely don't a lot of them do not want to purchase homes they want to be able to travel to do things like that so you know i i really think that this could be good and especially what uh dr wells was talking about you know it's right there next to the highway this is really going to be transformational because a lot of people will be coming to live in greensboro and as has been said you know they'll be traveling to jobs all over so i i'm i'm very pleased with this i do believe that traffic study of some sort by ncdot or whoever is responsible for that intersection some of that might need to be addressed so i did want to ask um hannah if she could address the traffic issues because that really hasn't been and then um i have a comment and then mrs johnson thank you madam mayor good evening members of council to just briefly summarize the findings from the traffic impact analysis that was conducted as part of this rezoning process the original review was for considerable consideration of 406 residential units mixed between apartments and townhomes and the findings of that study led to the recommendations of improvements along wolf trail itself and reviewed the traffic operations of the signal with wolf trail and randleman road and the signal of wolf trail at elm eugene and in both cases there is sufficient capacity in those signals based on the existing volume and the projected volume that includes both this project and other projects that are already known or in process so that we feel confident that the recommendations from the tia adequately address the traffic being generated the other thing i'll point out is when we look at traffic distribution so when someone leaves the facility and goes out into the rest of the transportation network where do they go we use a set of complex algorithms essentially that look at the desirability of a traffic pattern so in this particular case 13 of the traffic went was went along the path that landed them at the traffic light with randleman road the rest of the traffic processed through to south almujin in part because that is where the access point to the interstate is located i'm happy to answer any additional questions and the summary the executive summary of the tia is available in your materials okay so mayor can i just have hannah address one thing yes hannah when you talked about the initial i think it started out being 400 and some units now that he has reduced down to one unit or one person with 200 some units does that change the traffic impact or does that stay the same so the the impact analysis right is the recommendations will remain the same the traffic itself is cut approximately by half though compared to what is in the materials that you received so for example the trip generation that was shown in your materials showed 181 trips in the am peak hour so that's morning rush hour essentially our estimation of a 200 dwelling unit impact in that same example for am peak is 92 trips but we still are going to have the left turn and the right turn yes ma'am okay all right thank you thank you we've talked a lot about homeownership and the fact that people um you know there's nothing to stop somebody from buying and then renting and that is true but it's one reason why we really need to push our down uh payment assistance for first-time home buyers because that assures that they stay in the home for a minimum of five years in order to get the full impact of that city down payment assistance and i think that that is a program i i appreciate that mr and i'm afraid that it's gonna i'm gonna say it wrong a gun a gun ring day um you know that he said he has already reached out to um sophia to talk about possible down payment assistance because that's really what's going to change things is that um if we can get that program out to first home first-time home buyers that will at least assure that they stay on the property five years um mrs johnson i don't want anybody to misunderstand i don't have any problem with people living in apartments people need i have i have a desire for diverse housing and um this community has a lot of apartments and very little diverse housing in terms of of development units that was my only concern i don't have any people need apartments they can't make i agree with gold they can't afford a house but we need to really look at diverse housing and however we have to structure it that's legal that sharon said we need to talk more about it that that is really where my heart is but i don't want anybody to think i'm anti-apartment i am not i appreciate that and mrs johnson obviously your motion died due to a lack of second um to table the motion so um i don't know if um somebody wants to make a motion at this point well i'm going to bite the bullet and make the motion to approve uh the rezoning and i'm doing it because i'm afraid if um if we lose this here what we may open ourselves up for and i think that um the fact that this individual developer has been willing to talk to sophia and when i talked to sophia afterwards she was very positive about homeownership possibilities because as you know housing is in shortage we're short over 4 000 units period uh of good housing diverse housing market rate market rate housing places where our public safety can move into and our social workers and teachers can move into um and so i i'm going to make the motion to approve it um and also because i believe chris will be the person that the neighbors here who are in opposition can pick up the phone and call when there's an issue and a problem and that he will address oftentimes we don't even get that opportunity to have a door of open door of communication so i i encourage that strongly um and i'm there as well just to make sure that you do exactly what you say you're gonna do for this community and let me point out that the first first action is for the annexation and normally we would say if you're not going to vote for the rezoning don't vote for the annexation because the developer doesn't want to be annexed without the um without the zoning in place so mrs hightower has made a motion to um annex the property is there a second second um seconded by miss abuse waiter and we should be able to do that um electronically though we will confirm um we do have to do a a voice vote as well um i am a yes mrs johnson no this is abusive waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs therm yes and dr wells yes that passes um seven to one we now move on to the second item which is the original zoning and it does require a statement of consistency where's the statement at um it should be in the packet but it's also on the screen well depending on the size of your screen i don't know how easy it is to read it oh i see it i got it on here okay um for item 206 wolf pearl road original zoning um the greensboro city council believes the action to recommend approval of the original zoning request for the property described in 206 wolf trail road from county a.g agricultural and county rs30 residential single family the city cdrm 26 conditional dis presidential multi-family dash 26 to be consistent with the adopted gso 2040 comprehensive plan and consider the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan future built form map and future land use map the proposed ddrm 26 honing district has conditioned from its uses which fit the content of surrounding area and limits negative impacts on the surrounding area and the request is reasonable due in the size physical conditions and other attributes of the area it will benefit property owner and surrounding community and approval is in public interest so i do need a second on that motion second uh seconded by dr wells um so if we will and that also has to be confirmed by voice vote um i am a yes mrs johnson no mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower uh yes mrs hoffman yes mr mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes that passes seven to zero i'm sorry seven to one seven to one um we will now move on to our our next uh two items metamorph i can't just a minute please i can't see y'all um what i want to say um is i think that um the opposition mate made great points on oversaturation uh of you know apartments in the area and i think i would like for us to step back and maybe take a look at this area uh and look at an area plan for the area uh of how housing and diverse housing can be more interspersed in this particular area i think there's uh neighbors further up around uh randa monroe further up m eugene uh that have been voicing their concerns along with this community as well i i would like for us to really look at that um and and do an assessment of this area and and look at how we can help better play um for this particular area of mrs hightower i would certainly support you on that you know we still have um to accept certain redevelopment areas into our plan and i think maybe as part of that this study we could look if there's a redevelopment area here where we could really drive some of those first-time home buyers with down payment assistance because that that would be a valuable tool to a lot of people so um i support you on that um i don't know if we need a vote to move forward mr city attorney yes ma'am so you can make requests of staff to look at a particular issue and bring it back forward before you in your various meetings um just by consensus or you can make it like a resolution by having a vote but just directing staff to do so we can prepare that for you right well that's that's fine i just want to make sure that it happens sooner than later and oftentimes we get you know the concern around green space uh and all of this is concerned you know we're adding adding adding but what else are we adding in in addition to that are we adding parts are we adding green space you know have we looked around transportation even though this particular area and this project is probably going to be car driven uh but there are other areas that are not it's a little bit farther out than our transit goes but i think we need to start considering all those things and put them in a solid plan with community being involved in that obviously to help drive what that looks like and you're absolutely right so i would ask staff um if they could come back to us at our next business meeting with a timeline and how we would move forward if you could bring us forth a proposal yes ma'am we will do that madam mayor yes i think we've talked about several you know sub-area plans in the past few months and perhaps staff when they bring that they can bring us kind of proposal for how they would lay out the various area plans that we've asked for because i think we've asked for several in the um past few months and it would probably be helpful to review what we've asked for and then make sure that we prioritize etc yeah i think that's a good idea so if we can get a timeline and then you know put it on a work session so we can kind of coordinate all of the area plans that have been talked about and how well we are implementing um area plans that are on the books yes ma'am we will have that ready for you thank you so item um f3 and f4 um f3 is a public hearing for an annex an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for property located at 5963 summit area 8.5 acres mary america and item f 0.4 public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning at 5963 summit avenue s l ready fork for sl ready fork llc for mary j merika we do have um two in favor and no opposition um mr kirkman could you give us a brief overview yes i'd be happy to mayor vaughan uh the property is again 8.5 acres currently zone county agricultural and the request is to go to city light industrial the zoning that surrounds the property is plenty of development i will note that the section of the planting development on the west side of 29 where this property is located allows a variety of uses but that includes a variety of industrial uses as possible development as well the property kernel contains a single-family house again north west south and east a combination of single-family dwellings and primarily undeveloped land currently the property is designated residential on a future land use map of the comprehensive plan and as urban general on the future built form map this has no conditions with that so i will note that staff does think that this request supports the growing economic growing economic competitiveness big idea to increase and preserve the inventory of developable sites for corporate industrial uses and the proposed li request does allow uses that are complementary to other nearby industrial properties located along a major thoroughfare staff is recommending approval of the request the planning and zoning commission considered both the annexation and the original zoning at their july 19th meeting the vote was in favor unanimously there were no speakers for that request okay so um we can listen to those in favor or if we have a motion move the item second so it is moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs johnson and that is for the annexation we do have to confirm by voice vote i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs sperm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um we do need a motion for f4 which requires a statement of consistency so move second so um moved by mrs johnson seconded by mr mrs therm um mrs johnson can you read it into the record the greensboro city council believe that it's action to approve the original zoning request for the property described at 5963 summit avenue from county ag agricultural to city light industrial to be consistent with the adopted gso2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons one the request is consistent with the comprehensive plans future build for map and future land use map to the proposed light industrial zoning district permits uses which fit the context of surrounding areas and limits negative impacts on the surrounding area and three the request is reasonable due to the size physical condition and other attributes of the area it will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approval is in the best in in the public interest thank you so we do have a motion and a second that will come up on our and again we have to confirm by roll call vote i am a yes mrs johnson yes this is abusive later yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes sorry that's okay mr outling yes mrs therm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um we do have another two items item um f point five and f point six we'll take together and after um this we should probably take a quick vote because the next item might take a little bit longer item f.5 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for property located at 2808 york house drive .24 acres hispanos inc and item f point six public hearing for an ordinance for an original zoning for 2808 york house drive frank flores for hispanos inc and we don't have any speakers on this item remove the item so that is the annexation who moved by mrs thurm seconded by miss abuse awaiter so question is this just one house or or is this another development i don't hear from staff uh this is basically just to build a one house to like access services the rest of this area is already developed this is lots that have not yet been developed and so under our current water sewer policy they need to be annexed in order to access city services thank you so we do have a motion and a second council please vote um and verbally i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuso waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um so at this point uh before we move into our next agenda item since we're getting close to the break um sorry sorry i need a motion on f6 um moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs hightower mrs thurm could you read the statement of consistency into the record the greensboro city council believes that its action to recommend approval of the original zoning request for the property described as 2808 york house drive from county c-u-p-d-r-s-p conditional use development residential with a special use permit to city r5 residential single family to be consistent with the adopted gso 2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons the request is consistent with the comprehensive plans feature belt form map and future land use map the proposed r5 zoning district permits uses which fit the context of surrounding areas the request is reasonable due to the size physical conditions and other attributes of the area it will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approval is in the public interest thank you so we do have a motion and a second we could register our votes and verbally i am a yes mrs johnson yes this is abusive waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero if we could take a brief ten minute break um before we move to our next agenda item all right mm-hmm so we're g nine yes please nope mrs hightower are you back yet dr wells i'm here i'm here and we'll give sharon a minute i'm here so i'm going to start by reading reading the items in out of point seven public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for property located at 5144-z 5119 5121 [Music] 5164 and 5200 mcconnell road 1360 village road an 1801 an 1812 zz andrews farm road 384.21 acres terry golden elizabeth golden mickey stewart elizabeth stewart llc william george rebecca george and guilford county item number f point eight public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning for 5144 zz 5119 5121 5164 and 5200 mcconnell road 1360 village road an 1801 andrews farm road amanda hodardean for elizabeth f stewart llc mickey s stewart rebecca and william cage and elizabeth and terry golden item f point nine public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning for 1812 zz andrews farm road city of greensboro we do have speakers for and against mr kirkman yes thank you mayor vaughn so the combined acreage of the request is 384.21 acres for any station there are two separate original zoning requests within that amount as shown on your screen the larger portion of the property the private property if you will is approximately 371 acres and then there's a small portion on the northern end that is 12.68 acres that is a publicly owned property that would come in if the annexation for the rest of the site is approved in terms of zoning in the area the zoning north of this site is uh currently agricultural county light industrial and city light industrial east of this the requests are county agricultural county rm 12 mh which is multi-family in a manufactured home overlay county li and county cupdr which is planned development residential south of the quest is currently zoned county agricultural and county aghd which is agricultural and historic district overlay west request is county ag county aghd and county rs40 residential single family the subject properties do contain a combination of agricultural land undeveloped land and single family dwellings north of the request are a combination of single family dwellings undeveloped land and dedicated open space east requests are single-family dwellings on developed land and further to the east the call center south and west are single family dwellings agricultural land and undeveloped land the subject properties are currently designated as residential and reserve on the future land use map and x urban and reserve on the feature built form map these are the conditions that were offered by the applicant and were advertised as part of this request and i can answer any questions at this time i will note uh that the planning and zoning commission did consider both the annexation and the two original zoning requests at their july 19th meeting did recommend approval of all three items there were two speakers in favor and five in opposition thank you um we will we will start with the applicants we have amanda hoderding jeff i'm not going to be able to say the last name ochnidel zac tran and beth blackman you have a total of 15 minutes thank you mayor vaughn and good evening members of the council i'm amanda hodear and my offices are at 804 green valley road here in greensboro 27408 so we appreciate the opportunity to be here in front of you tonight we're excited about this we've been working on it for quite some time and um are happy to be at this point in the process with you um as mr kirkman said we did receive unanimous approval from the planning and zoning commission last month but rewinding even prior to that we've been working on this with your city staff for for exactly a year now we met with uh the city managers and the department heads in august of last year to let them know that we had assembled this acreage and that we wanted to bring it into the city with um you know a good chunk of housing as you see we have done and so we wanted to make sure we did that thoughtfully and intentionally and um that that was something that the city felt like would be appropriate and that they could support so um you know i really can't say enough about that process working with your staff we had a we had a great experience of about four to four to six months i would say where we worked with the planning staff uh water resources the fire chief and of course the city managers and others to make sure that you know that we we could make this leap and and grow uh in this scope and at this location in the way that we were proposing with this request so we're very happy and grateful that that process worked out as it did and um i'll say about that i think the mentality that made this project make sense to me and my development team um and i think what the what the city staff recognized as well and has embraced is that this is a you know a mentality to go ahead and jump out to the fringe here in this growth tier one growth area and establish a critical mass of high quality development um at a large scale and that goes ahead and sets the services up out here it makes it makes us get that infrastructure and network in place so that now everything that comes after it can backfill as it goes back towards the existing corporate city limits um as opposed to waiting for the dominoes to go in order as you come out from the city and progress out to these um to these farther reaches so i think i think that's the mentality that um sort of supports this this strategy and of course when you look at the momentum and everything that's going on in this part of our city and the county right now you know i really feel like and i hope you'll agree that this is the time to go ahead and strike while the iron is hot get some housing out here in a big way to support all the economic development and employers that are looking at this area not only looking at it already building in it um as we all know publix just opened the amazon facility is here the fedex facility is here so this is just the part of our city and the kind of part of the county that is developing and needs housing for all those employees that are coming and and i think that this is a way that the city can participate in that need and that growth opportunity so we're excited for that um if i could show the concept plan please that i submitted for this tonight thanks so much so this is our concept plan um rendering if you will showing how this would lay out it is a sizable request it spans both sides of mcconnell road i realize you're looking at it horizontally side to side but it's actually more of a north-south orientation with the north being the left-hand side of your screen and the south being the right-hand side so this would develop in multiple phases of course several sub-phases but everything south of mcconnell is is phase one that would come on first it would have its own standalone recreation and amenities you see all the pocket parks and the green space and of course it's got town homes as you see in the golden area single family in the lighter cream area and that's the only two uses proposed as you've heard on both sides um once this builds out and um and is is um fully fully uh occupied the development will shift to the north in the phase two which is north of mcconnell road and same thing townhomes single-family all supported by its own recreation center with the pool and other amenities the trails the pocket parks and you know it'll really function as sort of two separate neighborhoods here but we wanted to bring it uniformly as one request so it is um it is an ask for 1400 units all told between the townhomes and the attached single family and we're excited that this is a a good sizable offering to housing in the area and meeting meeting that critical need that we have right now not only in greensboro and guilford county but in the triad and certainly in eastern greensboro um we did reach out to the neighborhood we sent a letter out that i know is in your packet not only to the required notice range but also we made some common sense adjustments to that to go out further and go ahead and encompass entire neighborhood so that we weren't sending a letter to one neighbor but not their neighbor across the street just to make sure that um everyone was notified that we felt like would hear about this and have an interest and that yielded a lot of discussion i received lots of phone calls and emails from interested parties and and had a lot of good conversations with some neighbors out there um i know that this is a big change and it is you know putting something there that's not currently in the area so i know you'll hear about that from some folks signed up to speak tonight um and we appreciate that and want to be respectful of it with our development but we do feel like this of course is the age-old balancing act that you all are asked to consider so so often in your your capacity as counsel people um we feel like the benefits of this and the opportunities and all the boxes it checks for your comprehensive planning your growth strategy goals and your policies really make this a sound and reasonable request but this time i'll reserve future time for any questions or follow-up and comments um there was a lot of technical discussion at planning and zoning commission which i'm happy to get into at whatever level you all would like but i do want to give a little bit of time to the principal of my client diamondback investment to say hello we do have our engineers on our traffic engineer and our engineering designer but they're here only as needed if you guys have questions thank you so i i well i'll wait for everybody to speak me or i have a question okay mr tran yes hi it's uh zak tran uh we office here at 701 green valley road here in greensboro and um i really just wanted to talk about the process as a whole and um you know we we work you know across the state and a ton of other municipalities and one of the things that we you know we've been doing this for about a year uh with the city of greensboro we really appreciated the clarity and the the level of direction that we received from the staff and and uh just any folks that we interacted with the city and um you know it was it was refreshing to be honest and um you know we didn't always agree but we got clarity you know and uh it was it was good to always have something to work from and we know that doesn't happen by mistake and you know we're very grateful that there is a council and a mayor in place that does provide that direction and i just wanted to commend you guys for the uh the service that you guys do so regardless of the outcome this evening i just wanted to give you that feedback on your staff and the overall leadership that i feel the the city council and the mayor provides thank you are there any um other applicants that would like to speak at this time are there any council questions for the applicants mrs hightower um hi uh good afternoon um how did you all address the traffic concerns because initially i don't think the staff recommended this zoning because there was concerns around bridges and roads but so how are you all addressing that yes ma'am thank you for the question um and this is the technical issue that was discussed at length at planning and zoning commissions i appreciate your question um you know i don't want to put words in in miss cockburn's mouth or g dot but my my assessment of the situation was that you know we did do a very comprehensive and thorough tia a traffic impact analysis and it did um identify some some traffic exacerbations on the rock creek road interchange stemming from our phase ii development which of course is at least five to six years down the road and with that being a ncdot and federal interchange out of the city's jurisdiction and and difficult for us to do anything to without without approval from those bodies it was it was a difficult um you know how do we address that when we knew we were causing traffic impacts there but we also knew it was jurisdiction and they're also planning their own project for that interchange is the most important piece of information so i think the trick was to line up that timing and make sure that ncdot provided the reassurances to the city and to the gdot staff to make sure that the city knew that this was a project that's on there on their plans it's in their radar they are pursuing it at every avenue and every opportunity with with full vigor and that's not just because of our development that's because of everything else that's already happening out there like i was saying before there's so much going on in this area it's it's economic development wise you know we cannot afford as a state as a city as a county to have that interchange fail or or be at low functionality so that's why ncdot um you know was already all over this and as soon as we started talking to him about it they said yep here's our plan here's the designs they shared those with us um of course g dot already had those so i think we had a good communication between all three of those parties to ensure that you know ncdot is the appropriate party to take on those improvements and we'll be doing so in a time frame um that will dovetail to our phase two project before it further exacerbates that interchange um thank you i appreciate the explanation um so as you talk about building on the fringe of this land um are you going to start further out and come in in this property area or how how are you how are you going to address i guess land concerns runoff concerns things of that nature certainly yes ma'am certainly so this will be phased um of course it'll start on that south side of mcconnell that you saw on the right hand side of your screen closest to the american express call center if you're familiar with that on the map and then progress closer to town from there um that being said you know that that one side of mcconnell road is is probably four different phases that will go incrementally it'll come in um you know with its own set of preliminary subdivision plans and flats for each phase which of course means that at each of those levels of the development process we have to go through the city's rigorous technical review process and meet all of the requirements for stormwater control for making sure the turn lanes and off-site improvements that are required under the traffic study are done to make sure that all the um you know underlying zoning requirements are met and you that that entire process that involves multiple departments um with the city as any trc review would so this of course is just the entitlement to ask for permission for the land use and then as we go forward we have um many many subsequent steps that um that the city is involved in in making sure that we uphold all the rules and regulations okay thank you thank you very much thank you are there any other questions for the applicant you then um let's move on to those in opposition um we have janet harrelson and joe ann golden i do see that mrs miss harrelson is signed on [Music] that's correct um actually i spoke at the planning and development meeting so i would love to give uh joanne galden the opportunity she did not get the opportunity to speak first if that's possible yes you have a combined total of 15 minutes between the two of us or everyone between the two for those in opposition and right now you are the only two signed up in opposition oh okay thank you did i talk yeah go ahead my name is joanne andrews golden my address is 5155 mcconnell road which is north carolina i am well into my years and i have lived on this land my entire life i chose to stay here and raise my children here because i enjoy the country and want them to enjoy it too i enjoy it because of the peace and quiet the wildlife having space between me and my neighbors with a further development will come more noise traffic is already bad with the developments that is now below my house my house then when there is a traffic issue anywhere i can't hear myself think inside my well-built brick home and especially in my yard wildlife i enjoy nature the animals and the trees the wildlife will have nowhere to go and the storms by here by tearing the trees down the storms are stronger because there is nothing naturally to break them up the county won't be the country won't be the country anymore my home will be surrounded by new homes instead of fields that are farmed and wooded areas i lease my land but if the farmer that leases my land loses the ability to farm all the land i will lose much needed income at this stage of my life it would be highly unexpected i will no longer enjoy the privacy that comes with living in the country it is why i chose to stay here if i had wanted to live in the city with close neighbors north traffic and extra expense i would have moved there long years ago i chose the country but it is how i wanted my life and would like to continue to the day i die thank you very much for your time and consideration thank you okay i just want to add some things for the benefit of madam mayor and city council that i really brought up the last time the concerns and i'm janet g harrelson 5149 mcconnell road whitsett is my property and so you can know a little bit about me i was a young divorcee with the child the father did not participate but i was determined for my son to have a home a place to call his own with space to just be a little boy and run out in his yard and safety and whatever enjoyment so i worked a full-time job and many times two jobs to be able to get a loan back then women didn't get loans much less a home lane but i did it with a lot of determination it took me years but i did it and i built my home on this family land and we have enjoyed being there for many years and my son's an adult now and the the nature the wildlife the peace the quiet although it has picked up because when they paved mcconnell road uh that did increase the cut through traffic but it is just a two-lane road uh from mount hope church road well really even before that but what we're talking about from mountain ho church road there's a stop sign there's a stop sign at the other end of mcconnell road uh and then andrew farm road is like a just a side road it's a dead end that has a stop sign there are no traffic lights it's just a regular like the guy said in another situation a country road so i am concerned that it's too much too fast as a huge project which was said it's a total change to the landscape in many ways uh what about the runoff my mother has a stream and there i don't want to say and being correct but for my growing up it was a natural spring so what happens to that what happens to the wildlife the peace the quiet wildlife is crossing human paths because it has nowhere to go there to me there needs to be still a balance between city and country some people want to live in the country they want that kind of living but i feel like you know it's uh becoming kind of congested and at the end of mcconnell road where it meets rock creek dairy that's where all the commercial is mostly there's a lot of residential down there too but uh the commercial businesses that have come in like amazon and fedex you can't even turn left or right as sometimes you sit there 20 or so minutes and you know trying to get to work can be a challenge or just anywhere and that's one of the largest topics on the next door app that people with what i participate in have conversation in is the traffic in that area you will get so many more participants in that and people already know that you know it's a challenge as it is and you take over time fourteen hundred the average uh household is 2.49 according to the u.s census in guilford county how many and every household has an average of two vehicles how many vehicles there could be more there could be a last little offset but in general how many people are trying to get down this two-lane road and i know there's been talk about the changes and of course we don't want the road wide and we like things like they are i'm not saying come in and make a six-lane highway and cut into our yards or something to make this happen we're just asking for it not to happen it's just too much too quick and to think of the noise and the air pollution when they come in a lot of this phase one if i'm understanding correctly that's more or less filled there is some force but it's a lot of field but when they get on up around where my mom and i uh live and on property we're going to be surrounded by wooded areas being cleared well when they clear that much land my experience has been what i've observed is they come in they create huge burn piles we're all very sensitive to that i mean we're gonna how much smoke are we gonna breathe and um just the sawing and the hammering and you know and the problem not that in itself but it's other places if you ride up down highway 70 there are tracks of land 100 plus acres that are right there with the infrastructure either that could more easily be tied into what exists or be closer to it at least and i just again can't emphasize enough i think it's too much too quick between the traffic and the safety well now the sudden you got these heavy-duty dump trucks carrying debris in and out potentially big equipment coming in to excavate the land and then of course you know losing the farming that's there and you know you just it's kind of a way it is a way of life you just enjoy it feels good to see that and to enjoy that landscape and uh the beautiful sunset behind it and those kinds of things well now the sudden that's going to change and change in a huge way and you know what about fire what about rescue what about police when it's you know 1400 homes or units expected i just think that's an awful lot for that area for no more than what's there or could be there and and what would be the timeline to get the infrastructure in there like the traffic i mean this is our day-to-day life trying to get to where you need to be and you sit and sit and wait for your turn to turn out well then there's a wreck and then it's a hold up um there but that is our everyday life you know to deal with this to deal with the hammering the sawing the nailing the beating the knocking in other words it's not quiet anymore it's no peace anymore and it's my understanding there's 660 units already between single-family apartment and town homes right around the rock creek area going in so you know what about the 660 units and then with the bypass it's easy to get from like ready for they added a bunch of new single family homes over there it's right off of 29 hit the bypass and you can be right at publix publix is for my information planned to be complete fourth quarter 2022 so how does that relate to this and amazon and fedex is already there so people in these homes out of these 1400 units and i know it's going to be in phases they're trying to get out on mcconnell road get down to rock creek dairy that's the direction it's just a stop sign to get to their employers so there's just you know a lot of to me a lot more negatives and positives at this time and it's like we're residents and i'm truly surprised no one else is participating i don't know why that is um that we're the ones that's got to live with this day out we we've got to go through this process and i you know then our country setting goes away and uh in with it when you get we say okay if this was to pass we're going to annex what does that mean for us eventually are we annexed or is it forced annexed um are we made to have water and city sewer no offense but if you want that you live in the city or somewhere near the city we chose to have our homes and properties in the county we stayed there for a reason i don't want my taxes to go up i don't want city water um and has there been it sounds like they did a traffic study but was it uh unbiased and was there an environmental impact study done or whatever kind of studies to make sure this isn't too much too quick and that the negatives do outweigh the positives at this point in time it's not like there are not other options and there's also other vacant facilities i've noticed that people could come in and use for commercial or light industrial it'd be easy to make them a a warehouse so i just import the madam mayor and city council members to not approve this at least not at this time because we just feel like the negatives outweigh the positives and i'm sure i've left some things out but one i'm not used to speaking anymore in front of people and then trying to condense everything to be within the time frame but you know once again it is different when it's your daily life that's affected and now you know people work second shift they work third they're trying to sleep during the day i did leave that out and then what they're listening to is the beating and the knocking and and the concern too with safety you know who's living behind us will there be a buffer who's going to be walking through who's going to be crossing our property to get to that road because it was shorter than taking a sidewalk if there is one and uh like i said there's other things i just like to say i try to condense several pages down into this so uh those are just concerns and i i just pray the council will take in consideration what we've said and we thank you for your time and this opportunity to speak thank you are there any questions for the opponents i i'd be curious to know madam mayor how many people live out there besides this lady and i think her mother how many other homes are out in that area that would be impacted do you know the lady who spoke oh me i couldn't tell you how many but i mean there's a number of people that have come out there and lived there their whole lives up and down the road andrew farms road and um but there it's also surrounded by a lot of wooded area so it even though you might have a neighbor you still have space um some of the houses like years and years ago there was let's see about five or six houses that were built close to each other but that was really about it um most people just grew up next door to their parents and decided to live there like i did did you all have community meetings or did you meet with the developer and share your concerns uh was you was your concern i'm gonna be honest with you from listening tonight i've never been in a public hearing and i was telling my mother i said i feel really in a way like i didn't do enough i didn't really know how it worked and i worked so much and overwhelmed i just didn't have a lot of time to investigate i told her i said i should have at least listened to a public hearing somewhere to know and i just really thought people would be like us and just join in i guess that's sort of the difference in just country but i could have gone to house to house to invite people to participate or maybe tried to call them on the phone or something i just thought they would i don't think it indicates that people don't care or they're not bothered by it or concerned thank you um any other questions for the applicants or we can move to our five-minute rebuttal and i'm sorry i just wanted to say this i know that doesn't really answer your question but i could you know take the time to count houses but i won't do that that's fine you ask the road is probably the rate's probably not but a three mile road mcconnell road from mount hope down to rock creek thank you if it's even that much it may be two miles so thank you thank you we will move on to our five minute rebuttal on miss hodoring yes thank you madam mayor um i do have an ariel that i provided staff that might be useful just to answer councilwoman hightower's question just to show kind of the development pattern right thank you so uh you can see the middle of your screen um that this is pretty much the property this is not a parcel map but you can see the amex facility there um the reserve at rock creek that that's the only um adjacent thank you that's the only adjacent you know platted subdivision if you will everything else is um you know a more of a scattered residential pattern as as you would typically see in this type of area so just to the extent that that's helpful i do want to um you know emphasize to miss to miss harrelson and her mother you know we have talked on the phone and she's got my contact information and i'm and i'm you know we look forward to keeping those lines of communication open should this request be approved and we want to be good neighbors and we want to be um respectful and sensitive to the folks who already live there when this starts developing and so you know we're happy to meet with them and discuss how we do that as um with mitigating the impacts to them as best as possible and making sure that there aren't any unintended consequences or um you know shortcuts being taken by any anybody that we bring out here that that affects their property unnecessarily certainly of course this would not uh become a forced annexation or rezoning of their property obviously um you know that would never happen unless they also approach the city like we've done tonight and asked for that to happen so i want to make that assurance to them um on the record here that they'll be you know allowed to continue in the county um as long as they want to and won't have to tap on to any water or sewer um you know this this is a change of course but it is in keeping with your comprehensive plan for this area for residential it does support the employment centers that are here and on the ground and continuing to come in this area and you you know your water and sewer is already here so your infrastructure is there this um capitalizes on that investment and the rest of the services that have been discussed have been evaluated by your experts and determined to be um to be viable and in the best interest of the city as indicated in all of your staff reports and then i know we've talked about this but i do want to emphasize as well that this does not happen overnight this is a slow process it's a seven to eight year build out at the portions um nearest nearest speakers are in that those last phases so we've got a lot of time here to make sure we get this right to make sure we're communicating and to make sure that we can do everything possible um you know to be sensitive and respectful to our existing neighbors and we look forward to doing that you know our trc process that i talked about earlier does include um wetlands delineation and assurance with your water resources staff that we are meeting the pre and post runoff standards so that we're we're not um causing any stormwater runoff that negatively impacts the area from our development so we you know we look forward to working through those processes and and making sure that the checks and balances of your development liquidity process are utilized and put to good use i'll leave it at that and just answer any questions if they're already thank you and that would be questions from council members so so amanda can you talk about a creek because the lady mentioned the creek so is that going to be part of what you're uh how is that incorporated in the property or no it's not yeah from what i see on our plans i do see where a creek you know um extends from our property and would it would touch hers as the adjacent um so you know certainly we will have to evaluate all of that and and when we do that will tell us you know whether it's a stream that's intermittent or perennial that we have to protect under all the requirements that are um you know not optional for us and that will be enforced and regulated by both the city and the state so yes that those will get delineated and protected and planted accordingly and evaluated by our engineers and your staff and your engineers um at this point we will move on to the um five-minute rebuttal period for our opponents okay yes okay my mother would like to speak joanne galden yes the attorney that just spoke about what was what unlike a copy of what she said okay um i'm sure that she would be happy to communicate with you okay thank you um what i'd like to know is should this be approved on some level what would be a start date it would have to go through a series would have to go through our technical review committee and other things i don't know that there is a hard start date it depends on the permitting process um mr tran do you have a projected start date uh no we uh currently don't we um want to do it deliberately and intentionally so that we get it done correctly with the staff so it'll move at the pace it moves at and you know we'll certainly do it when it's feasible thank you and i think it's important to know that the trc is the technical review committee and that they will be reviewing things like traffic and water and sewer and other issues that will affect this property and those immediately surrounding it yeah and i think that goes back to a lot back to we this is our first time in a process like this so we aren't even sure you know this is like unnavigated or uncharted territory for us we get the letter and we're trying to participate and i have reached out to their attorney um but i guess i would be surprised that she's who would tell me i'm not going to be annexed and that's nothing against anybody that sounds so strong but i would think why would she tell me i'm not going to be annexed why wouldn't the city say you're not going to be annexed well you're not up for annexation at this part you're not part of the um of the rezoning or the annexation right i guess it's just an old whatever where like if this happens well somehow they you know bring you in too and you know the city i was just curious no if we can reassure you the state law was changed i guess now about 10 years ago the cities so that the only way to be annexed into a city is if you request it so say let's uh where we get requests for folks that have lived for a long time out in the county say the well fought fails or there's a septic tank issue and they need to get on city services they'll petition us to be on there but the city the state has taken away the city any cities in the state of north carolina's powers to just go out and annex at will so if if you come in to the city of greensboro it's because you'd like to be there okay i really appreciate that explanation thank you and another thing that was that i brought up in this uh planning hearing was that the timmins group who were surveyors we contacted them mostly i spoke on behalf of my mom because she has more land at stake in this than i do um was how they infringed upon her coming on her land driving on it walking on it and so that i i appreciate those comments but we really have to focus on land use and what those land use issues are okay that's fine i didn't know if that was you know part of the land use like saying what are the barriers going to be or what keeps someone from infringing you know will there be buffers um if there are buffers what will they be like trees or a wall or man can they address that because i didn't hear a lot around that myself so it is um residential up against residential i believe um mr kirkman uh yes thank you mayor vaughan so when you have single family residential against single-family residential there is no required minimum uh buffer requirements or tree conservation requirements for the townhome portions of the property they would be required to do a type c buffer which is a 15 foot wide buffer and there will be some tree conservation requirements with that okay thank you for that you want to ask questions yeah okay do you have any questions or rebuttal meaning further well i don't want to sit in well right okay i was just making sure my mother didn't have more questions she's just saying you know she likes her country setting and would like to remain in the county slash country so thank you for your time thank you are there any questions for the opposition may i have a motion to close the public hearing second um moved by mrs hightower seconded by mrs johnson um i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes that passes eight to zero um i do have one question um and i i believe ms cockburn can help us it's regarding the traffic and um what discussions have been had in the last month regarding traffic and road improvements thank you madam mayor i'm happy to provide an overview of the analysis and the further conversations that have yielded some additional recommendations that have been included in the updated analysis and our continued commitment to work with ncdot to make the necessary improvements at the interchange which is impactful to not only this project but many others that are under construction today or in the planning stage so the um i'm not sure if everybody can see this but this is the traffic analysis that was submitted it's um pretty big it looked at more than 14 intersections both existing and planned and the recommendations that are included here um are not only to improve mcconnell road with left turn lanes it also includes new traffic signalization at rock creek dairy mcconnell and judge adams there's additional phase two requirements including the construction of some additional ramps at the interchange that will help relieve some of the pressure at the interchange operationally as we await the further construction of that project ncdot has looked at this it is already in the tip which is the transportation improvement program that the state produces that includes all of the projects all over north carolina and are looking for ways to advance the construction of this project in order to better address the anticipated impacts i'm happy to answer any additional questions that you may have i'm sorry no thank you that's very helpful um any other questions for staff in that case um is there a promotion on i did have one other question for hannah who who's who's putting in all those improvements that you referenced ncdot have they committed to that the the improvements uh that are referenced in the tia are to be constructed by the development team okay that includes the additional signalization and the improvements in the roadway itself in addition to the additional space at the ramp of the interchange with i-4085 the the interchange improvement that is anticipated to be constructed by ncdot is a much larger project that will include a new bridge structure and improve all of the legs of that interchange thank you thank you mayor that that thank you so do i have a motion um motion number f7 would be for the annexation move the item there second moved by mrs hightower and seconded by mrs therm we do have to confirm it um verbally i am a yes mrs johnson yes this is abusive waiter yes mrs hightower yes this is hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um item the next item which is f point eight which is the larger part of the rezoning and that recall that it requires a um statement of consistency let me stop them over yes moved by mrs hoffman seconded by mrs hightower mrs hoffman could you read it into the record uh yes uh item f85144z 51195121 5200 mcconnell road 1360 village road in 1801 andrews farm road consistency statement by city council the greensboro city council believes that it's action to recommend uh approval of the original zoning request for the property described as five one four four z z five one nine nine five one two one five one six four and fifty two hundred mcconnell road thirteen sixty village road in 1801 andrews farm road from county ag and county rs30 the city pud to be consistent with the adopted gso2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable in the public interest for the following reasons the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan's future built form map future land use map proposed pud zoning district as condition permits uses which fit the context of surrounding area limits negative impacts on the surrounding area the request is reasonable due to the size physical conditions and other attributes of the area it will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approval is in the public interest thank you so we do have a motion and a second um mayor i can't vote i can only do verbal this is what my my my ipad looks like okay well we're going to have to do it confirmed verbally anyway um so i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abusa waiter yes yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um and then we have our final item which is f point nine which also requires a statement of consistency move the item exactly moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs hightower mrs thurm could you read it into the record the greensboro city council believes that it's action to recommend approval of the zoning request for the properties described as 1812 zz anders farm road from county l.i light industrial to count city ally light industrial to be consistent with the adopted gso 2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan's future built form map and future land use map the proposed li zoning district permits uses which fit the context of the surrounding area and the request is reasonable due to size physical conditions and other attributes of the area it will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approval is in the public interest thank you if you can vote please do so um i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abusa waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes this is thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero thank you um we now um move to item number f10 which is a public hearing for ordinance for rezoning located at 3205 to 3211 west friendly avenue my mark isaacson for wby4 inc we do have speakers both in favor and in opposition mr kirkman yes thank you mayor vaughn the request is for several properties located at the intersection of west friendly avenue in west avondale road to go from r3 residential single family to pud planning and development zoning north of the request is commercial high ch east request is the combination of commercial high ch and r3 residential single family and south and west of the subject site is r3 the subject properties currently contain a single family dwelling and undeveloped land north of the quest is a shopping center east request is another portion of the shopping center as well as single family dwellings south and west of the quest are single family dwellings this property is currently designated as low residential on the future land use map of the adopted friendly area avenue plan and as part of this request there is a request to change that designation to moderate residential is also designated as urban general on the future built for map of the comprehensive plan these are the conditions that were submitted as part of this application and advertised as part of the hearing staff has concluded that the resulting request does support the comprehensive plans creating great places goal to expand greensboro citywide network of unique neighborhoods offering residents of all walks of life a variety of quality housing choices and the building community connections goal to maintain stable attractive and healthy places to live and raise families that the proposed ped zoning does allow expanded residential uses along our major thoroughfare and does include conditions to limit potential impacts and aid with compatibility with adjacent uses and staff is remaining approval at the request this item was heard by the planning and zoning commission at their july 19 meeting was approved by the planning and zoning commission there were three speakers in favor and five speakers in opposition at that meeting i'll be having some questions any questions for mr kirkman then we will move on to our applicants i have mark isaacson will yearns dion brown chuck trouby and gary pippen mr isaacson you're on mute i thought we'd get through the meeting i i wanted to make sure you were able to say that uh it's the phrase phrase of 2021 i guess yes it is well good evening i i did i was saying can you hear me all right so i hope now you can thank you for the opportunity to present this project to you mike as i'm introducing this if you could queue up slide two we've already seen the conditions um i'm here uh this evening on behalf of will yearns and granville homes they are the contract purchaser of this property and uh along with i'm representing the members of the henry perfinius family as the owners the purpose of our application is to obtain approval to develop this approximately two acre property for high quality townhomes for sale granville homes has built several high-quality communities in our area for many years including the devonshire townhomes on lawndale so moving on to this slide this is a vicinity map and an aerial photograph showing the location of the site specifically there is a mix of uses across the street at friendly shopping center a large regional center as we all know including a drive-through restaurant a grocery store a bank and several other retail and other mix of uses at friendly center mr mrs perfinius bought this property in 1946 and obviously a lot has changed in this area since then we recognize that there are concerns in the areas behind this property about certain issues but this aerial photo i believe shows that this area is certainly in transition next slide mike this is the uh friendly avenue area plan future land use map and uh wanted to call your attention to the cross-hatched area that's our site property number six and in the legend there on the bottom left you'll see that this indicates in this friendly avenue corridor plan that this particular area is designated as an area of transition and so this plan as council may know was was the result of several months of study and participation by the planning staff and others along with many of the property owners in this area and so this was clearly designated as an area in transition when this plan was produced and then adopted by council we have taken certain steps as you'll see to ensure that the product project maintains a residential field including adjusting the design of the townhomes at the southern part of the property and we we would submit that this project would make the highest and best use of this transitional area next slide mike this is uh submitted for illustrative purposes but it is a preliminary site plan that's been prepared by our civil engineer chuck trouby who is on the line with us um this shows that i think and would submit that mr yerns has very thoughtfully laid out this property in this project for the dwellings to take into account the configuration of the property first of all you so take the land as you find it and there's a long stretch of this property along friendly avenue a very busy thoroughfare as guest council can appreciate the townhomes facing friendly will be three stories we'll have entrances on both friendly avenue for pedestrian access only no curb cuts and we'll have entrances and garages driveways that is on the southern side of those dwelling units then on the other side of the access drive you'll see that those are more standard more conventional duplexes that have been turned sideways so that access and impact are limited and that the impact on the adjoining single-family homes that will abut this property protected by a buffer of course will have mitigated the impact uh on those properties to the south so as if this property were developed this council knows for single-family detached dwellings uh no buffer will be required but we are certainly uh going to install and maintain uh a healthy vegetative buffer and then next slide please mike [Music] this is uh submitted also for illustrative purposes these are the units that would face friendly avenue and we think that they're unique these are these were created by an architect in cary north carolina the town of kerry approved this similar project and has i would submit very rigorous standards for this type of development and it met their their standards and requirements so these are the units that would face friendly avenue as i showed you on the illustrative site plan then the next slide shows you the uh the duplexes that would be on the back of the property and these are uh to take into account the topography and how it slopes from friendly avenue toward the south and to make these more uh in line with the single-family detached homes that are abutting it uh to the south and so uh i would submit to council that this has been very intentionally and thoughtfully laid out by the architect and by our civil engineer to take into account the configuration of the property as well as other factors next slide please mike when we met we've had several meetings and communications with uh folks in the area and one of the issues that we heard about as a priority is water runoff and in the this is a a drainage basin map uh that our engineer and our and mr yarns prepared and it shows in green the site that we're discussing this evening but this is about 285 acres in this drainage basin that utilize the culverts and the other drainage features that were created and installed years ago when this area was developed and when friendly avenue was being wiped um mr yearns has agreed in a in after several discussions with uh folks in the area and i believe you all received an email this morning about this we've reached an understanding about a few items that were of concern to folks in the area primarily this water runoff and so mr yerns has agreed at his additional expense to install a much larger underground stormwater detention system that our civil engineer mr trueby is designing to capture not only the water runoff from his property from this property but uh will accommodate rough water runoff from other properties in the area but we would acknowledge that that's not a fix for this issue that is probably the subject of a larger review by by the city staff um so that is uh that's that's an issue that we heard about uh quite a bit we also heard about some other concerns uh traffic uh was a concern and we have a traffic impact study ms brown dion brown from the davenport firm is on the line with us that traffic impact study which was uh i believe included in the report showed very minimal impact for this particular small development on friendly avenue as as compared to the transportation system in the area and the larger traffic that you see on friendly avenue and through the side streets here so we have agreed to work with gdot and neighbors in designing our project that's not a zoning condition we can add necessarily but we've just reached an understanding and after several communications to continue to communicate and work together to try to address any traffic concerns in addition we have discussed a neighborhood liaison position so that we can continue to communicate officially uh with folks in the area and listen to their concerns and try to respond i think our our track record of communication though speaks for itself and i believe you received something this morning to that effect so in summary i would submit to council that this request meets or exceeds several principles set forth in the city's 2040 comprehensive plan which in goal a states that we should encourage higher density mixed use walkable in-field development and should bring world-class development to transform underutilized sites this proposal does just that the city has made major investments in the infrastructure on friendly avenue and in this area in general the central project takes advantage of those investments in infrastructure and delivers a return in a manner of speaking to the city in terms of high quality housing to meet the tremendous demand we are now experiencing in greensboro becoming car optional is another key goal of the plan at this signalized intersection this will provide excellent access across the street to a major retail and office center this area is designated as in transition on the friendly avenue corridor plan that indicates the likelihood of higher density where it locally and logically belongs on a major thoroughfare and a signalized intersection across from a major retail center and i would also submit to council that there are similar town home developments all along our major thoroughfares in greensboro including just down the street from here at friendly west town homes that this is a well-established pattern of development in our city that has worked well for many decades and with that i would like to thank the council for your time and attention and submit this for your approval uh i know mr yerns is on the line um uh would ask how much time we have left madame clark yes ma'am we have four minutes and 17 seconds thank you mr yerns just wanted to make a comment about his uh discussions and meetings with neighbors in the area if you'll allow him a couple of minutes please hello council members my name is will yearns uh 532 hillwood court greensboro 27410 thank you all for your time tonight um we spent a lot of time talking to the surrounding neighbors um and and hearing their concerns of the traffic and and the water runoff um and i think you know we as as mark said we're going to continue to work with them on the traffic um you know and and listen to what they say and this in the liaison position is going to kind of force the the communication with the with the community uh and and the residents living in the in the town homes um because that's that's going to be written into the uh the hoa covenant um and the the increase in the capacity for the storm water i think is um is going to is going to help a lot and i hope this this project has shined a a very bright light on the uh the issues in this neighborhood uh that it's that's already facing without this project um [Music] so i'll answer any questions y'all might have and i think they're and and chuck trouby and and dion are available for questions as well counsel any questions before we move to the opposition okay if we would then move on to the opposition we do have three people signed up valerie daniels true campbell and michael curtis you can speak in any order you please for a total of 15 minutes nobody else starts i will start i'm not sure i'm very good with this technology um and i'm starting my video i think so what i see having lived in this neighborhood for a long time is that we have severe water runoff problems and then we have this development which is close to edgewater where we've had lots of flooding and the flooding is you know a problem and flooding in this area you know other areas of greensboro is a big problem so i i appreciate the containment tanks and i appreciate a lot of the other thoughtful things that have gone into this but i doubt that it's adequate for changing climate conditions so particularly since this is being built along a creek so i wonder if we have two hurricanes would this containment uh tank take care of the problem is this uh have we considered what's really going on with the with the climate you know throughout the country and throughout the world and all the floodings going on and when this happens the developer who's i'm sure done the best job he can for this area if it's to go forward this way if if this goes forward and if it doesn't work and there's flooding that's a problem for people who are on edgewater and people who are you know in this area generally and nobody down as far as east avondale where we are got notices from the city as far as i know about this one um i don't i don't think you should vote on this until you're satisfied that this is not only good enough for 1950 and 2000 but it's good enough for today and both for the residents and for for the conditions and if it's not who's holding the bag the homeowners are holding the bag part of what we heard at the community meeting which was very nicely set up was well a lot of this would be the uh the homeowners association problem but a lot of these problems are gigantic problems as we're seeing all over the world they're not problems that this homeowners association alone is going to be able to deal with and i and i don't think the city is i'm not sure we have an infrastructure now to deal with flooding already like we've recently had and so if we haven't done that then is it safe to add more impervious surfaces along a creek and say well the containment paint tanks will take care of it thank you very much and thanks for the efforts and thoughts you've obviously all everybody's put into this thank you mr curtis do we have our next speaker um i'll say a word or two my name is valerie and i can't um get my video on the host there you go hello um i just wanted to say first of all thank you to mr yarns i was one of um a handful of people that were able to speak with him and we are very happy with the agreement that we came to in terms of two items and that was in the memorandum of understanding and one was that the water retention system would go to that 25-year storm drainage and also the liaison which was very important to us i did want to mention mr isaacson said something about traffic and i just wanted to make it clear that um mr yarns explained that a lot of the options for traffic were not worth within his power but within the power of the city so i'm um here just to be on the record and ask the city to please keep looking at us please keep shining that light on us as mr yarn said in regard to this cut through traffic you're going to have another development coming in on the other end of us um i'm not sure the timeline of that but this is a cut through street with the light with a lot of young children and new young families coming in and at any rate i appreciate your time and thank you very much for listening thank you um true campbell are i might have gone to bed i see her name on there yeah no i i see her on the call we'll just give her a second hey i i actually have nothing to add to the conversation at this point thank you thank you are there any questions for the opponents okay then we'll go into our rebuttal well mr isaacson just very briefly to say that as you heard the property will be managed by a homeowners association it will be responsible under city ordinances to provide for inspections and review of this storm water control device and any other common elements that the city usually reviews or inspects from time to time and otherwise we appreciate the cooperation of the folks in the area and we hopefully will look forward to an exciting and uh novel that's a fairly novel project for this area of the city and thank you for your attention thank you mr isaacson anyone else maybe we will move to five minute rebuttal for the opponents so if i could uh it doesn't appear that they're um i'm trying to get on but oh okay mr curtis yes and unmute myself have i done that yes you have we're good okay i want to know with reference to this 25-year flood thing that we're taking care of when was that 25-year flood plan established i can remember coming to greensboro and this beautiful area off latham park it was having 50-year floods with some regularity as i call recall that may not be completely accurate but when was this plan developed and how much thought was put into what we're seeing all over the world all over europe all over the united states in terms of catastrophic climate change and i think we'll probably have that discussion and mr borchers who is on the line can can address that concern are there other concerns at this point madam mayor this is gary pippin can you hear me uh yes i can i i'm not quite sure how you introduced me at at what level for or against but uh we we've lived here uh uh over 23 years just a couple houses down new mr perfini as well i haven't spoken to any of the any other group uh my wife's home 24 7 caring for her father so i'm sure they reached out to a lot of people but my concern we've had this issue come up a couple years ago is if you're gonna do that there's uh allow this there's only two two more houses three houses down to uh green valley what why not why don't the city go ahead and allow this to happen all the way down i mean if they build this we're concerned about the runoff and the water what's that going to leave for the the last three of us still standing here on friendly just no opportunity for a future we'll just we we will have no value for the homes then uh so if we're gonna go ahead and do this which you know i know times are changing i know this is a great area for the future of greensboro and and i'm not against it by no means but i just i wish you guys would go ahead and consider if we're going to go this far to get all these approvals it's it's a lot of time consuming and you guys having all these meetings is from from one light to the other go ahead and do it in one shot so that allows the other three of us that set some friendly avenue to go ahead and realize the fact that things are changing it's not the way it used to be and go on and make plans to to get out of the area so again i don't we don't have the resources and incomes to bring in big attorneys and make all these uh nice beautiful presentations you know that we don't have those resources to do it but sometimes you just have to use common sense and and from what we're talking about today adding these homes or whatever or mr prefinish's property you only have three properties left and you might as well go ahead and i don't know what the process is but none of the three remaining houses have the have the financial resources to hire these big firms to come in and do pretty presentations and show you you guys know what the value of the property is and what it means tax value is do the right thing and go ahead and include the rest of the properties down to the women's league at green valley so mr pippen i can have the city attorney address that but we can't do that this evening because they're donating okay so um you know i i would say that maybe you and your neighbor should talk to the planning department and see what your options are but you know this evening we have to consider the rezoning that's in front of us absolutely and all that we were looking for is maybe some kind of guidance and that statement you just made gave us uh gives us some indication of what we need to do and i i assume we better do it rather quickly thank you thank you um are there any questions for the opponents then can i have a motion to close the public hearing move to the president of the caring mat before we actually close it i i did have a question around the did any other condition get added i heard them talking it kind of went through the screen fairly quickly so there was a memorandum of understanding that was reached between the developer and some of the neighborhoods who were neighbors who were leading the discussion um [Music] mr isaacson sharon do you want to hear them uh yes yeah i read i read the email that came over from i think four neighbors sent an email but i guess that incorporated any conditions or what right well i can address that and then you're welcome to ask staff as well but um we reached a memorand what's called a memorandum of understanding i'm sure council is familiar with the concept because uh some of the issues that were brought up just are not suitable to be included as zoning conditions as part of the city ordinance so they were more appropriate once we reach this understanding to incorporate into a written signed memorandum of understanding now we we acknowledged uh when that was signed that that these four i would call them leaders in the area could not bind legally or represent even all of the property owners in the area they were speaking for themselves primarily but also as council may know one of the signatories who sent the email this morning conducted a an online poll and so based on that we understood what the priority issues were from the let's call them the neighbors in general but specifically these four and mr yearns crystallized those issues down to a memorandum of understanding which is signed and now has been delivered to all of the parties and will be binding on into the future but not part of the con the zoning piece but finding between they and monsieur correct they they really weren't suitable and we checked with the planning staff on this and just having worked with the staff and the city attorney's office sort of know what is appropriate to be included in zoning conditions and what may be appropriate to be included in a private agreement among private property owners hmm interesting ah thank you for that thank you thank you [Music] thank you so we do have a motion to close the public hearing from mrs johnson and i believe it was seconded by mrs thurm um i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes thank you so we do have um item number f10 um i do want to thank the the neighbors for all of the meetings that they conducted the online survey for working with the attorney and with the developer um i know mrs hoffman and i had um a few meetings with the neighborhood as well and we have made a commitment to continue to look at the traffic issues and the storm water issues um i know that mr trubian and mike borchers from our staff are on the line to talk about stormwater while this won't solve the problem of what's going on it won't add to the problem i think that it was um it was good to be able to go up to the larger um underground stormwater detention device i was not aware that it was used so often around the city and as a matter of fact it is used at the coliseum and it's under the parking lot at the coliseum and that um that retains an an awful lot of water the the homeowners association will be responsible for the maintenance of that and the city will inspect it annually to make sure that it is behaving in the matter of which it was my commitment to the neighborhood is that we will continue to work with stormwater and do the engineering studies on what we can do to impact the storm water that is already existing as council knows last year we bought a house on avondale because of the repetitive flooding and at this point i know that stormwater is looking at how they can use that property as um maybe another stormwater underground stormwater detention and then it will be looked at by the parks department to see what we can do to um enhance the neighborhood but you know i can speak for myself that while this zoning may end this evening the discussions and the relationship with the neighbors hasn't and since you bought that we bought that house is are we setting ourselves up to have to buy more by building this well so that was a house that was flooding repetitively um and that was the first house that we bought on our on this plan that was developed last year but there aren't other houses that we're planning to buy in that neighborhood at this point but the that property um could also be used for the stormwater um control device the underground stormwater control device so it would continue to um enhance the neighborhood you know i i don't think that that would be appropriate for like a stormwater detention pond because that wouldn't necessarily be attractive to the neighborhood and it would attract mosquitoes so i think water resources right now is looking for other ways to handle that stormwater runoff sharon just to speak to your question as well this project or this development is not going to add to the stormwater situation because they're building their own retention uh pond so uh if anything it it it will be helpful as opposed to be a negative but you know let me let me just take this opportunity just to say a couple of things as well you know i really i commend this neighborhood uh they they were strong and creative advocates uh for their their neighborhood and their community and and we had uh we we have a young developer who's creative and thoughtful and very open to the discussions and the meetings and the time that was spent uh with with uh members of the of the neighborhood uh we had an outdoor meeting we probably had i guess 50 or 60 people there we had earlier several weeks before had had a zoom meeting with a significant number of people the mayor and i had another meeting with members of the neighborhood so this what we what we see tonight is the result a lot of discussion and i think a project that's very thoughtfully and creatively designed you know this really is is my neighborhood i'm three months away i can walk from my house to where these homes are going to be in in five minutes down friendly avenue so i i live in the 48 hometown community again three blocks away that has been really beautifully integrated into the entire neighborhood area for the last 30 35 years so as the mayor has indicated we're we're aware of both the storm water issues and that's the city responsibility that we are dealing with and we are now aware of the traffic situation and conditions and we are committed to also dealing with that as well so i i think this is i think we've come to a very good outcome this evening thank you um are there any other comments mr outling i thank you on the on the traffic related point yeah i spoke with a number of neighbors who i think underscore a really important issue for us to address as a city you know even beyond this application specifically as mr isaacson indicated the traffic study reflects that this proposed development won't significantly or materially increase traffic in the area however i think it's important for the city to develop a framework to look at individual applications may not materially increase traffic in an area but when looked at over time and you have several different applications those little increases obviously can add up and i think this was kind of underscored in a zoning matter earlier tonight i know there was a zoning matter on elm street uh where this was an issue so along with the requests of the planning staff i would ask that transportation and planning develop a plan for how city council and the city more generally should evaluate those things because obviously on an individual zoning application level you can't deny a zoning application on that basis where they're not creating materially more traffic but it's something that is a city we have to be mindful of and address based on my conversations with swartz and planning um you know it's there's not an answer right now at least from a planning perspective so i would ask that along with the information that hopefully planning will provide to us at our next meeting the planning department coordinates with the transportation department and gives council guidance and really the community guidance on how that should be considered evaluated and planned for thank you mr sturm yeah um i think right align with that you know several weeks ago i asked about a um to have a work session with speed hump speed control in neighborhoods etc and i really see that that that along with the points justin raised um kind of go together and marry together for a more comprehensive approach to traffic and impact development has on traffic and driving patterns etc so it would be great if we could combine all of that into a work session and deal with both those issues or at least start to deal with both those issues at the same time thank you mr city attorney if you could see uh mr city manager if you could see about getting that on the schedule yeah um i had sent an email over a couple weeks ago about a work session as well because i wanted to hear more about what high point had done so maybe we can combine that into uh this information because i never i didn't get a response back on um so if we can follow up and incorporate that information as well yes thank you so do we have a motion on item f10 with the item second second so it was moved by mrs hoffman seconded by mrs johnson mrs hoffman can you read the um statement of consistency yes the green for our city council believes that its actions to recommend approval of the zoning request for the property described as 3205 3211 west friendly avenue from r3 residential single family to pud planned unit development to be consistent with the opted gso 2040 comprehensive plan considers the action to be taken action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan's plan's future-built form map and future land-use map post-pub zoning district as conditioned prevents uses which fit the context of surrounding area and limits negative impacts on the surrounding area the request is reasonable due to the size physical conditions and other attributes of the area it will benefit the property owner surrounding community and approvals in the public interest um thank you if i believe the vote is up um i am a yes mrs johnson yes this is abusive waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero i again want to thank the neighborhood and the developer for you know working hand in hand to come up with a with with a solution that is palatable for both i think this is really a model on what future rezonings should look like we um you know we have an inventory issue uh today's um meetings we have approved over 1600 homes which i think is really important if you look at you know what's available on mls it's about a 20-day supply 20-day inventory we are really looking for places to live affordable diversity of housing and all of these are going to be infill discussions and these are the really difficult discussions to have and to try to find a good solution for the neighbors and for the for the developers so i want to say thank you to all the neighborhood neighbors for the hard work that you did um and you know the the infill is really what we're going to see more of and these are more difficult discussions thank you very much and thank you for your support um mr boosawader i just want to thank everyone but i wanted to clarify something that was said earlier that um you know i know that moving forward with the work session on transportation and planning and all that will be great but i didn't want people to go away with the idea that they don't already work together uh you know i'm on the i'm chair of the metro mpo tac the transportation advisory committee and um staff does a great job of working with planning and studying all of the impacts that happen so i just didn't want people to walk away and think that they they never work together they work together all the time so i just wanted to make that perfectly clear and and i agree we should still do a work session on a lot of a lot of it and i do know that staff has been in uh conversation with ncdot about the um pembroke intersection that that is on a cip and what is it that we can do to expedite that which will also help the neighbors so you're right that there is a lot of conversation going on between planning and gdot thank you i just wanted to clarify that thank you um our next item is item f point 11 and it's a long one um public hearing for the adoption of an amendment to the land development ordinance amending sections 30-1-11 annexation 30-1-12 transitional provisions 30-3 dash 1.5 extra territorial representation 30-3-4.1 authority and establishment 30-3-6.1 authority and establishment 30-3-7.1 authority and establishment 30-3-8 authority and establishment 30-3-9.1 authority and establishment 30-3-9.5 powers and duties 30-3-4 authority 30-4-1.4 notice 30-4-4.6 waiver of procedure 30-4-25 site-specific development plans 30-4-27.1 applicability 30-5-4.3 available remedies 30-13-2 point dedication of right-of-way 30-13-6 sites for public use 30-15-6 terms beginning with e 30-15-7 terms beginning with f 30-15-22 terms beginning with y and z of the land development ordinance ordinance to revise cross-section references in accordance with ncgs 160d we don't have any speakers on this item but perhaps um somebody from planning i don't know if it's mr gallanty or mr kirkman could explain exactly what this means for the people listening yes uh good evening everyone steve gallanty here with the planning department um mike kirkman is going to be operating my powerpoint presentation mike if you would go on to the next slide please in the general statutes the uh authority for municipalities to do planning zoning and subdivision was located in chapter 168 and then the provisions that related to the counties being able to do uh planning zoning and subdivision was in chapter 153 a next slide please in 2019 and 2020 the general assembly actually went through a process and a procedure where they consolidated the city and county statutes made them um similar and created a new chapter a new chapter 160d this new organization of the general statutes was led to a more logical and coherent organization for both cities and counties next slide please this text amendment will update the cross references in our land development ordinance if the cross reference was in 160a and is now located in 160d we need to make that change in our land development ordinance but i do want to ensure you that these changes are only for the cross references it does not make any policy changes and it does not modify the scope or authority of any boards or commissions it's just an update to the cross references next slide please this text memo is reviewed by our zoning plan zoning commission in july and they recommend approval on a vote of seven to zero next slide tonight is the public hearing for this text amendment we request that you have a hold of the public hearing and consider adoption of the text amendment that concludes the presentation if there are any questions i can handle those at this time thank you that was a great explanation um i appreciate it and i like the logical and coherent phrase that you used so um thank you for that um if there are no questions is there a motion to accept those changes live to accept moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs hightower dr wells you have a question no okay um we'll wait for that to come up in the meantime i am edius mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um items number f12 through f17 have been um continued item number f-18 is a public hearing for a resolution authorizing an economic development incentive to proctor and gamble manufacturing company in the amount not to exceed one million eight hundred and forty two thousand two hundred and forty seven dollars move the item don't what exactly is that i do think we should have a presentation especially for people watching um mr city manager would you like to introduce us so marshall yandle who is the manager for economic uh development for the city is on the zoom and we'll be giving a short presentation and of course we're joined by brent christensen and marvin price of the greensboro chamber marshall thank you um let me pull up uh share my screen real quick [Music] and we're having background noise from somebody if you could mute your um screen if you're not speaking so this is um an incentive request for the economic development incentive request for procter gamble manufacturing company um i just the staff um agenda and uh resolution uh i think spells out everything pretty well but i've made a quick powerpoint to hit the highlights of it i think everyone knows procter and gamble corporation they have two facilities here in guilford county employing 1250 people one site in the brown summit area and the other site on swing road located off of west market street which is the site where they are considering an expansion this potential expansion of what increased their manufacturing capacity of some of their personal uh health care products it would result in an investment of 110 million dollars and 46 new jobs over a five-year period the average wage of those jobs being six 62 nine dollars and none of those jobs would pay below fifteen dollars an hour um the company is requesting the five year incentive in the amount of one million eight hundred and forty two thousand two hundred forty seven dollars um and the city has also been invited to apply for nc department of commerce building reuse grant of 450 000 this is just a simple slide to demonstrate how the project meets the incentive guidelines created uh minimum 25 jobs and minimum 7 million in investment they also are above the average wage of the county average wage and of the north carolina industrial average wage um staff recommends council consider this request to authorize these incentives you'll notice in the resolutions the grant will be paid over five consecutive years the 46 new jobs above the existing employment level will be retained through the end of that installment period the construction portion of the project will adhere to the city's mwbe program plan these new jobs would also be posted on our local workforce development board and they will be required to have job fairs um we also uh so i'm here to answer any questions that you may have about it we also have as uh chris said we have mr um marvin price and mr bray christopherson from the greensburg chamber here in support of this project and also locally from our the png site uh off swing road uh mr dan pellegrino and josh shelden so if anybody has any questions we'll be happy to answer them so i have a question mayor go ahead does this um so the incentive hits pretty much all the marks that i've been real concerned about but the one last incentive i think we spoke of does this one fall into that where jobs would uh would come from some of the impact zones the concerns around making sure that you know at least jobs or um people in those impact zones would have opportunities especially because it relates to these job fairs yes sir go ahead i'm sorry no you're okay um yes we would um work with the company and the guilford works would also work with the company and having um job fairs and strip and work to try to have those in strategic locations or and and construct strategic ways uh and to target the uh the all areas of greensburg including the impacts and they would also be eligible of course for the additional incentive per uh higher and the impact or through the hiring through guilford works right yeah because there wasn't there was an offering of an extra incentive if in fact uh there was hiring from those zones which would be critically important to the outcomes of the economics of individuals out of that area so i just want to make sure that we're not overlooking that and i didn't see it here and i just wanted to make sure we it fell from the back so yes ma'am and we'll be working with them through the whole process right any any specific skills or trades or that are will be needed um i'll maybe let um someone from the uh gamble company um answer that question yeah so this is dan pellegrino so i'm the plant finance director at the swing road uh greensboro plant and yeah so these will be considered technician roles they're really equipment owners and operators working across potentially three separate shifts so i think this is pretty much in line with kind of the standard roles that we currently are employing at the site okay so any specific he said their skills would be needed so any training well so i think obviously the only requirement is a high school um graduation um and all the training takes place really physically at the site some will certainly be working in the warehouse and we'll be operating the line some will be in the making operations but those skills set is in training really is provided at the site i just want to i just want to tell you that you have a pink background and that just reminds me of pepto business yeah so at that site obviously we have pepto-bismol uh a line no all the vix brands yes i want to say um thank you for giving us us this opportunity i know that you've got 31 plants throughout the united states and you could actually go anywhere and um expand and we know that part of this expansion is modernization and we appreciate that you're going to do that here on the greensboro campus or hopefully you'll do it here on the greensboro campus and i do want to say thank you for your commitment to values diversity and inclusion it reflects um the city of greensboro and what we want an employer i really like your commitment to 2021 acts of good through 2021 i think that's a neat program and i want to thank you for the outreach and the help that you gave us during the tornado um png really stepped up um you brought your tides loads of um hope truck out there and along with many supplies so um to me this is a a really easy one um so thank you for giving this us this opportunity to work together okay appreciate that madam mayor um if there are no other comments do we have a motion some move okay so um moved by mrs johnson seconded by mrs hightower um well that's coming up um i am a yes mrs johnson absolutely mrs abuser waiter yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outlink yes mrs thurm she's muted yes okay yes that's okay and um dr wells yes great and that passes eight to zero thank you very much we um we look forward to an announcement in the um short term we hope thank you thank you very much thank you um we have postponed item f point 19 in g1 so we are moving on to g2 and g3 g2 is a resolution to approve coliseum north end restroom and elevator contract in the amount of one million seven hundred and twenty four thousand three hundred and thirty seven dollars with rpm partners and item g3 an ordinance for coliseum north end restroom and elevator contract award well done um so moved by mrs hightower and seconded by mrs therm that is for item g2 um please vote um i am yes mrs johnson yes um this is abusive waiter yes this is hightower yes this is hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero now i need a motion for g3 so move second moved by mrs johnson seconded i think that was dr wells yes um there's a move by ms johnson seconded by dr will yes um i am a yes mrs johnson yes um mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um item number did i see matt on here uh yes you did i think i think matt and mike perdue are are both on matt i'm impressed by the mwbe thank you very much mike mike perdue is with me councilwoman hightower and uh we you know it's even better than what you're seeing in your numbers because mike has worked out with the contractor to support the subcontractors opportunity to buy parts from a minority-owned business in greensboro uh gps uh plumbing supply so it's a it's a it's a double effect for us and we're thrilled to death to have the opportunity to uh showcase this for you all right good deal well thank you and then thank you for speeding up the elevator too i look through a faster elevator ride we've got rid of the mice and we're using this new product called electricity so you'll see ours will now actually move yeah and it'll be and it'll be large enough yeah and get rid of 1959 restrooms so congratulations all you for taking us to the next level here thank you absolutely thank you again thank you thank you we appreciate your hard work and sharon thank you for recognizing that oh yeah oh yeah we're getting there we're gonna get there that's great um item g4 is a resolution to authorized contracts for fiscal year 2021 2022 homeless prevention activities move the item second moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs johnson well that comes up um i am a yes mrs johnson yes boos waiter yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs therm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero item g5 is a resolution approving bid in the amount of two million one hundred and thirty six thousand six hundred and five dollars and seventy five cents and authorizing execution of contract 2019-071a with freezinet inc for bridge maintenance and repair 2019-2020 project moved by mrs hightower seconded by dr wells um imes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero item number g6 is a resolution approving a contract in the amount of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars santee consulting services for project maintenance and engineering technical support for storm water drainage projects move the item second moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs johnson i am a yes mrs johnson yes mr boosawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero item number g7 is a resolution approving bid in the amount of one million fifty nine thousand eight hundred and fifteen dollars and authorizing execution of contract 2019-018 with briefs enterprises for the bernard street and pim primrose avenue water and sewer improvement projects second moved by mrs hightower seconded by mrs thurm i am a yes mrs johnson yes mrs abuzawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes that passes eight to zero um item number g8 is a resolution declaring the city property listed below on surprise surplus property and conveyance of surplus property to downtown greensboro incorporated a non-profit organization pursuant to nc general statute 168-280 second so that was moved by mrs johnson seconded by dr wells um so we are conveying vehicles is like or just one vehicle just one truck okay um and i think i asked this question a time ago and um just not sure about how does a non-profit go about getting a donation of this type if they were doing some work for that without paying for it and what is the process you did ask that question before and i think the simplest thing to do would be to let someone know to contact our budget evaluation office or our office and then we can take that uh request in that it let them know if we have anything available and bring it to you for approval or denial yeah because i i'm i'm not i've seen it but i've only seen it happen for two organizations and so i know there's many in the community who are working and there's other ballot um non-profits so i i just wanted them to have fair opportunity to be engaged in the process thank you thank you so we do have a motion from mrs johnson and a second from dr wells um i am a yes mrs johnson yes mr boosawader yes mrs hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero um item g9 is a resolution to authorize a no-cost contract amendment to contract 2018-5431 with keolis n a we do have two speakers on this item if needed madam mayor i request to be recused from voting on this particular matter one or more of my colleagues at the brooks pierce law firm represents keolis in an ongoing matter although i'll know obviously it's not don vaughn who is not with our firm but on that basis i ask if you refuse so do we have um a motion to ex recuse mr outling i moved moved by mrs thurm seconded by dr wells um i am yes mrs johnson yes mr boosawader yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes seven to zero um do i have a motion on g9 madam mayor before we have a motion on g9 um i i would like some explanation i want staff to kind of give us a little explanation around this item dealing with keolis because i i think there's concerns and i want to make sure we we understand what this item actually does mean so ms cottman can you kind of just touch on that if you will you might have to unmute council member hightower i'm happy to give a quick overview of this change as you all are aware keolis n a north america is the contracted service provider that provides the labor force that is unionized that operates our transit system these are primarily drivers and various other pro positions that support the operation of the transit service this contract was entered into in to was bid in 2017 and entered into in 2018 and this contract was based on a lot of assumptions about how the system was operating and then covet happened and a lot of the things that were the predication for these assumptions changed very drastically and continue to be in place today the amendment that we have identified that can help address keolis's ongoing need for additional revenue adjust the the per trip rate in our paratransit service and increases that slightly for the remainder of the contract the contract will end in june at the end of june of next year and staff is in the process now of developing the request for proposals to identify a new contractor under a new contract i'm happy to answer any further questions you may have so hannah even though we are increased the per trip um for scat this is for scad only um we still fall up under the budgeted amount for the transportation that we have agreed up this is not give them in any way an increase of budget amounts that's correct the total contract amount does not re is not does not need to be adjusted uh because we have been able to identify other cost savings throughout the program that allow for this budget adjustment to move forward without increasing the contract okay and as you state contract kids in 22 but the rfp a new rfp is going out um beginning when when do we plan to have that on the street staff is working actively on the language for the request for proposals and preparing the other support materials that are necessary including um an evaluation of the performance of the investments related to the unionized workforce and their benefits the retirement program associated with those positions as well as the operational details to provide to any bidders so we will be actively seeking bids we will go through a really robust process to ensure that these bids are evaluated in a fair and transparent way and that we select a new partner going forward that can meet the needs of our city both today and into the future and help us begin to implement our mobility 2040 plan right and not to belabor the point even though we're talking about increasing the budget um you have all those measures put in place such as selection committees around reviewing those rfps uh moving forward and and having proper staff involved to ask the um questions that need to be addressed and asked so that we don't find ourselves put into this situation hopefully uh moving forward because it's been some troublesome times uh not just because it's over impacted so i would i would assume you've got some of those measures that you're looking at to be very strategic and intentional about making sure um that selection process is intentional around um what the review looks like engagement looks like the participation of it looks like to get a better transit system that's correct we will be seeking best practices in the industry for selection of a contractor of this type we will be engaging with nc's integrated mobility division to assist us in the review process so that we have some outside input but is still knowledgeable in these operations of course we'll refer back to fta's best practices for setting up a document of this type we are working actively with our finance department and with the legal department to ensure that we've covered all of the requirements and bases associated with the financial viability of the program moving forward and that we are meeting all the legal requirements both of the city the state and fta all right thank you um thank you very much for the explanation i felt it was necessary because while i really don't want to vote for this item um you know it's it's it's monies that fall up under the original budgeted amount because we were anticipating i think a hundred 198 trips scat trips a year and we didn't with covert it fell down to what um hannah 100 something or my numbers may be off i'm not sure yeah it it dropped to less than half in the course of the last calendar year and still is remaining at a relatively low rate due to a number of factors right okay thank you thank you for the explanation thank you madam mayor thank you um so do we have a motion on g9 i'll move the item second moved by mrs therm seconded by dr wells um imes mrs johnson yes miss abuse the waiter yes um mrs hightower yes i'm really not there i'll be honest with you matter of fact no so you are switching your your vote yeah i'm gonna know um mrs hoffman yes uh mr outling oh sorry um mrs thurm yes uh dr wells yes so that passes six to one um all right we will move on to our next item which is g10 a resolution to approve bid in the amount of seven million four hundred and eighty thousand hundred and eighty five dollars and twenty one cents for contract 2020-2018 with yates construction um we do have two speakers on this item um why don't we hear the the speakers first i have john hill and marianne and jimmy conchogenis um i'll let marianne go first thank you hopefully she's there okay hello can you hear us okay yes can you hear us now we're trying to start the video but we can't so you can see us can you see us no yes i can see you oh you can see us okay perfect well i'm actually here in our family's restaurant the acropolis restaurant at 416 and 414 north eugene street the property that's being considered and i'm here with my brother jimmy carter janice who runs the restaurant and my sister liz who is also a property owner in the restaurant we are extremely concerned with this matter and there are four items that need that really we we feel are very important first of all economic impact to all of our businesses all three businesses that are affected on this block of the street the terms of the contract that's being awarded the communication all around between us the city the construction company as well as messaging when we look at economic impact four years ago eugene street was closed on our block for a total of six months a total closure for four and a partial closure for two more as a result we lost about a third of our business revenue for the year we also lost customers because they could not come in and they went to other restaurants and developed other restaurant loyalties and we're being faced with that again the possibility of losing more customers we lost employees if my mother did not own the property it might have been a much more financial hit to all of us then copenhagen and we're just beginning to recover from that and now this how much more do you think we can tolerate you are again asking us to take a huge financial hit to benefit the city we are also losing more on street parking which can impact our customer volume we will likely lose the booking of private parties as well due to the construction we would like to see our restaurants celebrate its 54th year anniversary in october of this year and make it his 55th anniversary next year when we look at the terms of the contract this is extremely important and that's what you're really considering tonight we understand that the contract you're considering does not have specific restrictions addressing the timely completion of the renovations on our block before a contract is signed we feel it is your fiduciary and moral responsibility to ensure that this project is completed in a manner that provides for minimal disruption of our businesses and not just consider the cheapest bid that you get the current contract does not require that the construction company work nights or weekends and they have a two-year window to complete the total project our block is about a third of that project and nowhere in the contract does it specify how each portion of the construction will be completed our block you know on our block you know um that third part of it already has been completed on one side but the other side has not been why can the city not be more reasonable to negotiate a contract to complete our partial block on a more timely manner this can likely be done even if it took four six eight weeks but uh but we will be stuck within that time frame of two years because you have not specified to the contractor as to when the construction will happen you need to be sure that all materials are present before any construction begins and you need to not only consider the green spray grasshoppers and the local hotel development in this area but all business owners and taxpayers when scheduling the construction up to now they are the only ones that have been considered largest small business owners are very important so we come to communication it has been extremely lacking in all of these procedures four years ago as well as now we have tried to explain to the property management team at the city that what the economic impact will be and outline the financial loss but then they turned it down and they actually sent a letter to my deceased mother ellen k contagianas turning us down and threatening a lawsuit to get eminent domain of our sidewalk property if i could raise her from the grave to come speak to you today i certainly would but obviously i can't and yet the city attorney's office was able to send a copy of the pending lawsuit for eminent domain to each heir of l and k contagionis when the city council had this project and our property lawsuit on their agenda a few months ago no one from the city contacted us to provide any testimony then how can the city council have a discussion without talking to all parties well i believe there are two of us that we signed up to speak okay i have called the city's attorney's office several times and have had to leave a voicemail each time to date no one has responded when i talked to mr oakley yesterday he assured me that he would call the city attorney's office yesterday and someone would call me yesterday afternoon of course that didn't happen either we finally contacted downtown greensboro last year wait a minute okay and um can mr contogenis continue your comments because it's three minutes per person and he healed it to me i'm gonna yield it to marianne we we don't have we have a policy not to yield time ma'am you have already done that i've looked i've been here since five o'clock looking and listening and you have yielded it because there is a total of 15 minutes for each issue that you have talked about those were zoning issues yeah the the speakers are not penalized when they're answering questions of counsel well it wasn't just answering questions especially when that mother and daughter were on there you know but jimmy can you read my handwriting i don't know it's only gonna take about another minute but but he'll be happy to do that put on his glasses and read it can she finish her statement though because i i want to hear the rest of her she called somebody didn't call her back so can she finish that if you're asking her a question she can certainly answer yeah i just want to know when who who was the last person she called and didn't get a call back she was getting together after mr oakley okay last week i called um alan andrews i believe is the city attorney who sent us the lawsuit and i had to leave a message i understand people may be working remotely because no one responded to me yesterday i was talking to mr kyle oakley about matters and he assured me that he would call over to the city attorney's office and that they would call me yesterday afternoon i gave him my office number i alerted my office staff nobody called me today i called the city attorney's office again this morning it was actually i got into mr um andrew's voicemail left a message no response i called again this afternoon left the message no response um so so what what what would you like to know more i mean what what what i mean obviously you had a lot of concerns and i asked you what you wanted to know more that's what i'm trying to hear sure apparently this eminent domain lawsuit the city is looking to condemn some of our property we need to know as business owners we need to know and my brother as the person running the business all of us are business owners but he actually is a person running the business we need to know what does that condemnation entail if you you know i've gotten mick we've gotten mixed messages some people that's why i want to talk to the attorney are saying that it's going to condemn the piece of property in front of us in front of the restaurant okay and not the actual restaurant building and so if you condemn that piece of property in front of our building how will people be able to use that condemned sidewalk to come into our restaurant madam mayor may i yes you may miss contagion giannis is that a proper way to pronounce your name i'm sorry it's actually dr contijanus but kanto janice like the girl's name is correct okay i'm gonna call you doctor okay thank you serves me well in this forum it does but i'm a medical doctor so here we go so i'm sorry for not calling you back some matters were on the agenda for today i plan to call you in the morning but to explain to everyone con condemn is a verb use for condemnation the city has to file those actions against a number of property owners when they are making improvements to the area it is not a reflection of the quality of your of your property it's a statutory matter the city is involved in a condemnation matter in order to make streetscape improvements which is improvements that will benefit the area and your property they are not taking property away from you per se they are beautifying the area and then the city will leave you will have access to the area except for uh structural improvements flowers and such that are just to your south at the intersection of i believe it's belle mead and eugene and so the city is required to do two things the city is required to send notices to every listed owner of the property and that can sometimes include estates as your mother obviously has an estate so it was not a statement about your mother being alive it was meeting legal requirements but we of course would deal with the people who are behind and i'm glad to meet with you in person here we're at your office i'm sorry i wasn't able to call you today a couple things were going on today and i wasn't able to do that i'd hope to but i'm absolutely glad to talk to you about all ranges of matters cordially and respectfully about this to explain what it is but it is a condemnation matter under the law that calls eminent domain condemnation and it's designed for construction of improvements and then the city is gone and what is left is complete access to all areas and and little disruption to your business and i'm glad to send you a meeting invitation for a personal discussion and i'm glad to discuss all of it with you it seems to be adversarial but it's not of that nature it is done routinely with the city and we work with property owners very often for this and i'm glad to do that with you okay and you have to understand my and my family's concern is that we've had people walking in the restaurant saying okay we saw a headline the city is suing you for eminent domain and your your property is going to be condemned right and so they're walking in thinking why is this going on they're asking my brother and and of course we then had to research it and then we see that one newspaper reported it as such so you know it's also inherent in that sir are you mr andrews yes ma'am i am okay okay mr andrews it's inherent that you get that messaging outright about that condemnation not just to us but to the public because they don't need to hear that the acropolis restaurant is being sued and being condemned that's the media doing that but we certainly understand we we can't control them but i will absolutely work with you and i'm glad to meet with you and discuss that and we do apologize for any misunderstandings or disruptions was not our intent okay so mr andrews is it more of a construction easement um you know well legally we may have to call it a condemnation is it more of a construction easement in reality it's absolutely an easement so that the improvements can be made put in place and then they'll be gone the area where the plantings are made is technically an easement that is taken so you can't walk through the plants but they're just there it's just like on the intersection of i think it's belle meade and south eugene there will be no you know people can still get into the restaurant they'll probably be drawn to it so it works out to be improvements but um i do understand dr conte giannis's concerns and her family's concerns be glad to meet him sorry i wasn't able to meet them before there are about 70 of these and i just as a matter of getting through them but uh certainly we'll be glad to do that okay thank you for that so basically she won't be negatively impacted um hell right well well yes we will because the sidewalk is right out in front of our restaurant and by taking the eminent domain well it's the whole project is the issue ma'am okay the whole project because it's going to be ripping up the street in front of all three businesses ours mr hills and olivia's down at salon 440. um they will be all not passable they will be blocked off during that time as well so you will not be able to get into the restaurant over broken concrete in the sidewalk yeah and dirt and pipes everywhere and they're taking the lane the outer lane also so there's only going to be one lane each way outside there won't be any parking we won't be able to get the loading and unloading groceries it's going to be a big handicap not to have any way to get in front of our restaurant you know i would suggest um mr andrews that when when you meet um that we also include kim sowell because i know that she has been working on this contract as well um and that we you know we need to minimize the disruption to the local businesses well we know that the streetscape needs to move forward um we do have to take into consideration um you know the um how difficult it is temporarily for the people on that street um i know mr hill is still on the call um mr hill you ready for me yes sir the video on yes so thank you madam mayor and council members for sticking around this long and i'll be mindful of your time and for me i'm all about completing the project it's like an eyesore you've got that last little parcel to complete and i think it's gonna be a great finish but i haven't endured what we did four years ago and saw the being misled numerous times and promised timeliness that would come work three hours and be going for three days and they would have our businesses disrupted and we could get no urgency so we're fearful the way these contracts are lit there's nothing in there that holds that contractor liable they can at their discretion go when it's affordable and profitable for them put their people on that project in the meantime leave us disrupted i know four years ago it was in excess of two hundred thousand dollars and not only that i lost four staff members of a true loss on an accurate pnl because i'm a franchise with the brands i carry and they require traffic count we have a terms score that has to be maintained and when there's no accessibility and the consumer has a problem getting into the business it kills our csi score and on the back end of our products we don't get the money and we're dictating the hours we have to be open the days of the week if we want to close for a saturday we want to get a 90 day advance permission from the franchisor to give us that and so here we are unknown how we're going to be disruptive we got franchisors wanting to know what your traffic count will be during this process and if our csi score right now we're at a 98 csi score which is 100 is desirable but the last time this happened four years ago we dropped into the 60s and when that happens you get no back-end money and it really impacts you financially maybe some of you remember then but i'm thankful for a lot of council members and you may have one for getting involved and putting some urgency to it because it was dragging along and until the media and you got involved it wasn't going anywhere and then suddenly it took a turn for the better i think you remember carrier rails excavator video and yeah the number here we've got us some publicity and people started seeing what was going on but i really think it's been a little heavy handy heavy-handed on the eminent domain and the condemnation part you know i don't want me money i've already told amanda that that i'm not i don't want the money they offer me 800 to have two years accessibility to my property and i don't care for the 800 i just want to have some say as to how quickly this gets done and not have a project started and spawned started and stopped all while our doors are disrupted the sidewalks are dug up customers can't get in and you lose employees because most of our employees are on the commission structure and if they're not selling any second so there's a lot to be those three businesses and i realize it is such a small portion of business owners that are hit by this but i think it's worth commenting and thinking the importance of these contracts give nothing to where we can urge these projects along and we just have to bear with them and at our expense thank you thank you mr contogenis did you want to add anything yes there are a couple things here um a couple issues that i want to bring up um there was it was spoken about an interruption of water supply which will force the restaurant to close or any of the other two businesses are closed without water and there was also talk about an interruption of electricity which would cause of course all the refrigerators and freezers and everything to not be on and i would lose a lot of food and it would have to be thrown away and all this kind of you know thing there and then i would have to go buy a generator if i could plug into somebody or somebody would have to supply me with a generator you know i mean um and then in summary of the uh full thing here um you can see that we have several valid points here concerns regarding the approval of this contract and ask you not to approve it until they are resolved for all parties involved and that's it for now i do want to thank you one for your patience for hanging in with us on a very long meeting and uh we appreciate your points and i do recall you know the the pain that the last improvements were um you know i i know that staff will reach out to you and that we will expedite this contract to make sure that you know your disruption will be the smallest time frame possible ms sowell could you um comment on it i know we've had some recent discussions regarding this as well sure absolutely and just um want the speakers to know that we heard you we heard your concerns so we we will make sure you know that if we anticipate that there would be any type of water disconnection we can provide a way to get water to you so please don't worry about that we will work with the utilities to make sure that you have all of the utilities and connections you need to continue your business and we will definitely reach out to you to as we engage with the contract so right now the contract has not been executed um as staff we can't execute the contract until our council gives us authorization to do so but if we get that authorization then we will certainly engage you as we negotiate the contract with um yates so we we heard your concerns and we'll be following up with you so i think that's important to note that we can still put on restrictions and conditions as we move forward with this contract that by approving it tonight it doesn't mean that it's set in stone it just advances those discussions to give you um to give you uh some comfort as we move forward mrs thurm yes uh based on the email we received earlier today from the landowners and that property i had a conversation with mrs seoul um about the concept of incentives and penalties and this i think talks speaks to um that issue very boldly and it's something that i would like to see um our departments look at and take a look at in the past it's my understanding that we have not had penalties or incentives in contracts construction contracts for penalties for late completion or incentives i know there's pros and cons to both those issues but i do think it's something we need to look at certainly i know whether it be this situation or councilwoman hightower and i both had a situation with a road construction problem that took way longer than it should have and disrupted businesses and i really think this is something we need to look at going forward and make a commitment to at least looking at the alternatives um again there are always two sides to that story and we have to look at that closely but i do think it's something we need to look at going forward i i completely agree with you um especially when it comes to um small businesses and businesses because um they're our backbone and so uh i certainly would be in agreement to looking at it and i would be in agreement to moving on it as fast as we possibly can can um all right if you could let us know something as soon as possible i'd appreciate it well i i i support that as well because for over a year and a half now as what councilwoman thurm is referring to i've been trying to get penalties and some penalties are there but we need to write them more into the contract but i will say that this contractor um to mr hill and to others this contractor has good uh minority participation and those are good contractors i believe they will move post haste uh if given that opportunity because i remember mr hill's problems not only did he call the marriage on me um and i used to take my daughter's car to him for years um and so he's a good business person been in the same location i know uh for a long time we don't need to impact those types of people but we also don't need contractors who hold our neighborhoods house and our business is hostage uh by taking having projects that are a year and a half overdue uh and cost us money so we definitely do need to explore that a little bit more um to make sure that people understand when we contract with them we are doing a customer service business and we need to make sure the customer gets served appropriately so thank you mr outling then ms abuzawader you uh ms thank you for your comments i understand from the discussion that if we were to approve this item it merely provides authorization for the city to enter a contract with terms that it would negotiate after tonight will there in fact be terms added or a part of that contract with regard to the timeline or is that merely something staff is saying that it will explore that is definitely something that we put in um there are and i don't want to um speak for our city attorneys but there's a term called liquidated damages that is um common that you can commonly put in contracts so that if con contractors don't meet certain terms then the penalties that um council member therm and hightower and um mayor pro tem johnson have spoken about it would give us the authority to levy any type of penalties if certain timelines or conditions are not met but i would i would allow our attorneys to elaborate on that yeah i'd like to echo what assistant city manager soul said we'll have those provisions into contracts and we'll actively enforce them but more importantly we'll speak about all the concerns with the contractors before they even begin construction and work with the affected land holders you know as dr kind of giannis said it's about communication so what we'll do beforehand is try to coordinate we have a lot of different interested parties with in this case different interests on the timing and process processing of this construction so we will try to stage it in a way that is least disruptive and in consideration of all the concerns that have been made and where there are delays and deviations from the greek schedule there will be punitive remedies financial remedies that will be applied very great and i think it sounds like that should at least be part of a solution to address the concerns that it'll not only be possible to include it that will in fact be included on this contract so hopefully in addition to the timelines and the discussion that'll provide a good amount of encouragement and leverage for the city to move it along because as others remarked i mean these this stretch has been through a lot for a number of years i'm so glad we could be proactive and thanks to all those involved for kind of raising the issue is the booster waiter yes i'll be brief madame mayor and to the content giannis and mr hill and everyone along that corridor i think most of us that are on council now do remember um how frustrating it was when the the prior improvements happen along that corridor and having been in the restaurant business myself i certainly understand you can't be without power for two hours you can't be without water for two hours um the health department would ask you to shut yourself down and call them so you know any time frame um i i appreciate mrs sowell of being aware of this and knowing how crucial it is that you can't you just can't be without your utilities especially i know you're going to have to deal with parking and things like that but i think that's very crucial and i appreciate stuff um acknowledging that and making sure that that will not happen so good luck to you all we'll have to see how it goes thank you so um so ms sowell can we request that if this is approved that we would get a timeline and what damages and incentives you negotiate with the contractor certainly absolutely thank you and again thank you for your patience i know that this has been a very long meeting um and that this is a very important item to you you're welcome thank you thank you for listening to us thank you so do we have um emotion um with those stipulations that we get a timeline and what those incentives or penalties would look like some of them um moved by mrs thurm seconded by mr outling um so council um please vote i am yes mrs johnson yes ms abuzawader yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and that passes eight to zero thank you and we'll get back to you with the follow-up thank you again thank you thank you appreciate it um item number g11 is an ordinance in the amount of 13 million 336 063 establishing budget for fiscal year 2022 fta american rescue plan arp act grant move the item moved by mrs johnson seconded by dr wells um i am a yes uh mrs johnson yes miss abusa waiter yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes that passes eight to zero item number g12 is an order madam mayor i know we just passed that do we have a schedule of public hearings around uh american rescue plan have we gotten the schedule yet or what are we looking for by hearing wise if you're talking about the non-fta uh affiliated grant we've committed to a work session in september okay and we had talked about doing um a regular item on the agenda as far as public hearings to get people's input on a regular on a regular basis correct we also continue to seek input online yes and that um you know we can have that public hearing as a separate item from uh the town hall style meeting that we have um you know i think it's important to get the public input but it should be a separate item i agree yeah okay um so we did have we did have a motion and a second i didn't write down all right we passed that sorry item g12 is an ordinance amending chapter 12 of the greensboro code of ordinances to add enforcement procedures and civil penalties for discrimination in public accommodations and employment mr dickens i know that you had a comment yes madam mayor and members of council um hold on let me start my video um due to a technical error the ordinance that you have in your agenda that's attached to your agenda is not the one that has the amendments in it and so our office we uh deeply apologized for the era and just noticed it today that the somehow the ordinance uh got switched so the one with the amendments in it so that you guys could look at it um and see it in the public could see it was not attached to your agenda item um i know that mrs thurm actually brought that up last week um she had noticed that the amendment that she had made was not reflected in the ordinance that was um was attached to the agenda right and i think what happened is when that correction was uh being made and what happened is instead of the the ordinance that had that correction along with all the other amendments being put back into the agenda somehow um just h the original chapter 12 was placed in the agenda so um there are no amendments in your attachment if you're looking at at least when i went online to look at it uh there are none none of the amendments um are visible and i would suggest that we probably re-advertise this to our next meeting to make sure that it is um that it is correct yes ma'am i i appreciate that um if there's any questions about what's in it i'm happy to just discuss what's actually in it if you all have any questions about it um in terms of what it may or the procedures by how we enforce uh the civil penalty and or any questions of that nature you'd just like me to go over it if that's what you'd like i'm i'm happy to do that or we can just wait till the next meeting i think we let's wait to the next meeting i just want what is the amendment i mean well and i think that we should put it on our next agenda not in the next business agenda but the next agenda i agree and can you send it out to us yes yes ma'am thank you we'll get out to you tomorrow so um do we need a motion to um to postpone this to our next meeting mr dickens yes so um moved without further advertising yes so moved by mrs johnson seconded mrs therm um and i guess we will do a roll call vote um i am a yes mrs johnson yes miss abuse the waiter yes this is hightower yes this is hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes and i know that we just got a um our our vote but that is for um that is actually for the postponement not to vote on what's on the agenda um madam clerk if you could just confirm that yes ma'am madam mayor that is to postpone okay thank you so that is the um end of our agenda um if there are any um boards and commissions um let's just start um so uh ms hightower yes thank you madam mayor um i would like to ask council uh i need to put an individual in the database and also appoint him to a vacant position bryant keith peterson senior he's at 3317 winchester drive um he is i want to appoint him to the district 1 vacancy on zoning permission and that appointment will complete the zoning commission second thank you so um we have a motion and a second um ime yes mrs johnson yes um i'm supposed to get this in order um miss abusa waiter yes this is hightower yes mrs hoffman yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells and that passes eight to zero and it will be good to have the zoning commission back at full strength absolutely um and that's all i have for more than commissions for tonight um dr wells no um mr outling none this evening thank you mrs hoffman none thank you mrs thurm yes i've got one i'd like to appoint um omar jones to secretary the participatory budget commission for vacancy that i have okay sick so that is a motion and a second i am yes mrs johnson yes miss abuse awaiter yes mrs hoffman yes this is hightower yes mr outling yes mrs thurm yes and dr wells yes anything else mrs stern that's it um boards and commissions mrs johnson none none tonight um miss abuse awaiter sorry none tonight thank you okay um quickly um council comments mrs hightower um yes uh i want to i got so many i'll make it short though um you better cause it's late it's back to school oh y'all can hang come on now uh i i wanted to uh say thanks to the brothers of gabriel lodge they had a real successful back-to-school event this past saturday um and hampton park um and even though it was hot uh it was very good to see the kids come out and have a good time and get ready uh to go back to school we had our second saturday at willow oaks where we had a farmer's market kind of some wares so just trying to help to boost uh entrance over in the um willow oats cottage grove community as well because there'll be new housing coming very soon in cottage uh in the willa oaks community we're committed to build about 14 brand new houses uh in the next few weeks um so we're looking forward to that um as well so uh i think that's all i have for uh tonight oh i'm sorry i did lose one of my constituents um colonel uh clifton johnson and i want to give my condolences to his family thank you thank you um dr wells well with the way things are going now i want to encourage everyone to if you haven't had your vaccination get your vaccination be sure and use your mask wash your hands and do the social distancing i also lost one of my constituents who was in her 90s today i mean yesterday and she was also a member of my church josephine reed so my heart goes out for that family um so tell everybody be safe and please do what we're supposed to do thank you mr outling thank you uh of course lots of terrific community events uh happening in the past several weeks i'm sure other council members will touch on many of them including the windham uh one thing that's happened over the course of this week and we'll start next week for more folks is the return to school for grade school students across our community so uh definitely in these trying times of covid especially the delta variant and persons like mike clark and clara who are under 12 when they express a t appreciation all the teachers and administrators are doing everything both keep our kids safe as well as uh educated so um definitely want to express my thanks to them and wish all the children in our community the best of luck on our coming school year thank you um mrs hoffman i have nothing thank you mrs thurm i have nothing to add tonight thank you um mr booswader just uh thank you to everyone who did have all the back-to-school events um sharon i just missed you at gabriel lodge i was running late but i did get by there but there were a lot of uh communities that were doing i know the mothers standing against gun violence did one as well along with crime stoppers i know the mayor was there sharon was there just so many wonderful things that go on in our community and i think we all know how important they are know many of you have been to many of those things as well so that's it and uh like dr wells said please please get your vaccination and wear your mask this stuff is getting scary again and you know we all need to pay attention thank you mrs johnson first of all i just want to thank all of you for your support and your um many kindnesses uh doing probably one of the worst times in my life and i wanted to thank people in the community that have sent cards and have been so kind um you have my deepest gratitude and i thank you for all acts of kindness and just showing up just being there meant a whole lot i did go to ronald mcnair elementary school's opening for their teachers and i want to give kudos to attitude of gratitude for providing all of the teachers um in every class packets of all kinds of goodies paper pens markers you name it they had it hand sanitizer mask it was a wonderful event and um i just hope all schools have that kind of support um for somebody that cares enough to make sure they have the things that they need because a lot of times our teachers are paying for those themselves and so this was a great day and just one again thank you from the bottom of my heart thank you thank you mrs johnson you know our our thoughts are with you regularly during this very difficult time um i have nothing tonight um mr city manager nothing to say thank you um mr deputy city attorney sorry working the controls nothing this evening madam mayor thank you um with that can i have a motion to adjourn unmoved exactly moved by mrs thurm seconded by mrs blue's waiter and we can do that by affirmation thank you for a good meeting i know it was a long one but i appreciate all the hard work we've done