we're going to come back into order okay um we have a we have a temporary solution for our online uh guests who would like to speak so at this point uh natalie if you could have them introduce their name and address for the record and welcome to the planning commission all right and i apologize i missed your name when you called me but iphone uh if you could please state your name and address for the record you are um speaking with the public and the commission right now natalie way to find a workaround we've all been there in this virtual environment so thank you my name is tiffany checketts i live at 6310 steeplechase lane and i'm directly impacted and back up to the proposed polti development first of all i want to say thank you for taking time to listen to all of us that have concerns or some feedback um i heard a lot of things tonight and i appreciate mr hoagland's opinion i just do want to see for the record that he is one of the main beneficiaries of selling this property is he i think that he owns three out of five of the parcels that are being sold so i just want to make sure that everyone is aware of that and takes that into consideration as he gives his feedback um i i am concerned i i back right up to lupine so i'm adjacent off of blue pine and wood back up to the 18 home sites off of there my current lot width is right around 80 feet wide lennar has home sites that are 75 feet wide with 60 foot white homes um that go on those home sites so by reducing that minimum width uh that that will impact my value of my home i do believe in an adverse way so i i am concerned about that and would like that to be taken into consideration i'm in the industry i understand affordability and that it is a challenge i'm not opposed to the town homes i do have concerns though i think that it was mentioned that it was um 3.9 for the absorption rate where it's really 2.8 in tavera so i do have concerns over that for the townhomes and then the single family lot widths so i would appreciate that to be taken into consideration as well um and that's that's my feedback thank you for taking the time to listen to it thank you so much i'm gonna hang up now i'm not trying to be rude thank you all right so next we have ginger anzalone's iphone if you could please give me a call at 763-258-4272 again that's 763 i did put it in the chat as well um to everyone so hopefully that is visible [Music] hello this is natalie hi natalie this is ginger and alone great can you please state your address for the record yes i can my address is 340 bergamot drive so i am a wild meadows resident across the street directly across the street from this proposed development the issues that i wanted to kind of state forward one of which was iterated on this last caller there is a vested interest in the gentleman that just spoke as to this development being done i do appreciate his position on that but i also do feel that that does need to be echoed that people realize that there is a very big vested interest in this position being pushed forward the issues that will affect us directly i can tell you as a resident across the street first and foremost is traffic i know that there is a 2040 plan that does discuss the whole potential absorption rate of traffic and increases that will occur at the 101 hackmore junction however there is no outlet really from this potential neighborhood of 129 units when you combine the town homes and the single-family homes falling onto 101 outside of connecting into steeplechase at the top and coming out of rivenia the potential is that you connect into steeplechase on one of two directions either on goldenrod or going further up north and popping out and then you're dumping onto hackmore as we have seen as a development anybody who's been in our development we are a novel creation we don't have curbs gutters sidewalks or any safety issues you know provided for people to to walk through our neighborhood so when traffic cuts through which we've had a very large influx on from the lennar development in and of itself ravinia when that traffic light has any sort of issues regardless of any construction or improvements to it we become a very dedicated cut through not to mention that what's being built on 116 will come down hack more and when things back up a little bit they plop down they cut through bergamot hop out of primrose onto 101. this is going to substantially increase that cut through and if you're dropping goldenrod on to hackmore if you can't get across to make a left-hand turn you're forcing that traffic to move to the right which will then push an influx through us or up steeplechase that is an issue that is an issue that needs to be addressed secondly the trees along the street of hackmore albeit seem to be quite mature trees are probably past their growth my questions for the developer and the city if these trees that are designated as preserved especially along the white picket fence area that seems to be green on the on the slide that was put up what is the plan if those trees are not viable because truly if you look at those trees now they're not in the most um healthy condition and from us looking on you can see where they are struggling and through all the reparations on the road and the construction that around is there a plan one that will address replacing those if they do fail because they were part of the preservation plan if they are replaced what size is the replacement because if you look at our development we are built up so any tree outside of a mature sized tree does nothing to help screen from a noise barrier or a visual barrier to the surrounding neighborhood and the density is not there it only works maybe at street level and again at best those trees are struggling but lastly my question is we are a very novel storm water train system we do not have sewers and gutters that run in a normal development we work through the meadows with a an environmental stormwater train system my question is what is the plan there as well for the displacement of all the water due to the impervious structure that will now be present through these massive townhome structures and single family homes to accommodate any water runoff my question about that is because we have had in the past since rivenio was developed some issues along right at the hackamore 101 border caused flooding and backup i don't know some of you may remember that there was a flooding issue at that intersection a number of years ago that pushed water back into the meadows and we do have a drown out now some of the trees that sit on the corner so these are three major issues that come with such a dense development and lastly i will be honest looking at townhomes is not going to be a great thing and when i look at my property value as the lady from ravinia just stated i do have a major concern at what you're doing to supporting property values in the neighboring areas so thank you thank you i'm going to hang up now thank you for speaking all right next we have stanislav manchik if you could please give me a call at 763-258-4272 again it's also in the chat oh thank you hello this is natalie hi natalie whoa can you uh uh i'm doing it right now thank you so much hey my name is stamp magix for short zero larks for lane corcoran so i just want to thank the chair and also commissioner letterman for actually having some backbone on some back statements about things that are being passed because sometimes i feel like our city has gone to yes people and just approve everything the main issue that i have with this is you know with the um commissioner that spoke forgot the fella's name the one that's in the black on the right side last meeting in november about preserving corcoran and making sure that the lots are larger and division and the mission of corcoran stay and now completely change this tune just want to make that known and stated from previous meetings but this corner of the four cities has always been you know the other three corners larger lots bigger homes and with polti preaching about preserving trees and also giving the city close to a half a million dollars which i understand will help with fixing hackamore since it's filled with potholes and craters in the middle of the street that haven't been filled it will cause a lot of traffic but not only traffic but they speak about affordability i don't think a half a million dollar town home is affordable for a single parent as they mentioned in their presentation the other thing is too is right now with how fast they're slapping these units up and putting them together i know for a fact that there's going to be some class action lawsuits coming against pulte in the development of a 101 and counter road 10 because the master bedrooms above the garages which is a similar design on this is 46 degrees in the winter time due to lack of insulation and building design so with that being said with the traffic is one thing but the other thing is preserving corcoran with the vision and the mission statement of it and having larger lots of homes and preserving its natural existence as the chair said town homes do not make sense on this corner and don't fit with the rest of the corners the other three corners in retrospect with so that's it thank you so much for your time appreciate it thank you i'm going to disconnect the call all right next we have another iphone raising their hand um again 763-258-4272 hello this is natalie hi matthew um oh could you make sure you're speaking as close to your phone as possible it's a little hard to hear you okay can you hear me now is it business that's better yes okay thank you my name is nara i live in six four six 62 lakspat lane corcoran thank you for taking the calls and listening to the conference from the neighbors i completely agree with the recent caller that you know we need to preserve the natural existence we bought this home in luxembourg lane uh four or five years ago knowing that this neighborhood is approved for single family homes and you know and they all fit in in terms of you know how they look and feels you know around the neighborhood now with this uh town homes and you know an increase in the home density i'm really worried about his safety all the northbound traffic from these town homes will pass through in front of my home and you know with the kids coming in and going and playing outside i'm concerned about their safety and also the property value uh we can literally look at the town homes if i expand in front of the house this is not what we expected when we bought the home five years ago four years ago so we thought that you know this neighborhood is only a professional friendly home and that's what will be you know built if there is any extension and i'm also worried about the noise and you know other positions that you know with all this increased traffic thank you um just i just want to make sure that we have your comments for the record because it was just really hard to hear you so your concerns were the that you were under the impression it was going to be a single family zone and your concerns about safety traffic um and noise and pollution was there anything else i missed um you've got all the million points thank you perfect thank you so much all right so i believe that was our last speaker one last chance for those online raise your hand now if you would like to participate in the public hearing and at this time there are no further hands oh sonny is trying to talk it looks like sunny if you were trying to raise your hand please give me a call at 763-258-4272 um again 763-258-4272 i'll give you a couple seconds here i wasn't sure if that was intentional or not okay so i'm going to assume at this point that you uh sonny did not mean to raise your hand or try to unmute yourself so we're going to go ahead and proceed and feel free to message me if that is not the case and i do not have a message or anything from him no further hands are raised all right um well last call well i don't like speaking in front of groups okay um i'm nancy abramson and i'm at 160 bergamot drive i'm in the wild metals neighborhood as well and i do have concerns about the safety and the traffic and where they're putting that road coming out of this development um i also have concerns that just what almost everyone on those calls said was that why could this not i don't think we'd had so much of an issue if they were all single family homes but 85 townhomes is a is a big negative and especially when you're in the neighborhoods that surround this area and especially our neighborhood it's going to affect our property values and so um i guess that's what we're all concerned about because several of us met this morning and said this is not good why do they have to have these um i know it works out for you guys for you know you know what the kind of um profit margins you're looking for but it doesn't it just doesn't bode well for this area to have that many town homes in that area um 85 compared to compared to what you're putting in a single family homes and also so you're showing us on on your little presentation what these townhomes are going to look like but just down the street on hackamore you've built a townhome neighborhood community very it's where they're doing the land work as a matter of fact i forget the name is it glenn something greenway oh greenway crossing that neighborhood does not look very good if that's the type of product that you are thinking of putting as town homes in this area that's a very negative for all of us and it does affect our property values as i said i don't think all of any of us are are completely against any kind of single-family homes across across from us or in that area but but to have that kind of density with townhomes yeah it's going to affect safety it's going to affect the traffic it's going to affect the the storm water runoff um as a matter of fact i think we were talking this morning that they originally when they were doing ravinia they had called because we have the minnesota land trust that takes care of our neighborhood with all of our retention ponds and they had called the person at minnesota land trust and asked if they could tie in the storm water system to one of our holding ponds one of our storm runoff ponds obviously there's an issue and and we're kind of concerned what they are going to do with this water runoff and i know ginger mentioned it as well that um they have a culvert and they're and and we're worried about what's going to happen because behind our lots the group of us that are right that butter that butt right up to this across the street um that has been wet there all the time so you know you're saying that that you're going to rectify that somehow you know i guess we we feel like we would need a better plan or or more of a statement from you as to what how you're going to take care of that um and and really i guess um yeah i it's very upsetting to think that you know that something can be put in with all those townhomes in this area where we are um and so many of them 85 it is disturbing to us and just all the ramifications and all the problems that it will cause so um and and actually you talk about the trees that you were going to put in or you're going to preserve well you did nothing in the neighborhood that's just down the street where they're doing the land work on hackamore um and there's there's you have nothing along there so i guess if we're looking at what you've previously done it's hard for us to believe that this is going to be a better a better you know option for you so sorry if i sound nervous because i don't normally talk in front of groups but um i thought i'd better speak up so anyway that's great thank you you did great okay anybody else anyone else online going once commissioner schulack are you trying to speak if you are can you give me a call at 763-258-4272 commissioner shulock yes it's me all right go ahead and state your name and address as a member of the public uh my name is jim schulack i'm at 20475 county road 10 in corcoran and um i'm calling in as a private citizen this evening uh my comment is that this is just the same book in a different chapter with different pretty pictures um the developer comes into town and sees that we have a five gallon bucket but they're carrying a suitcase filled filled with 10 gallons full of stuff and they say here's here's what we're going to do we're going to give you this and we're going to do this and i have an oh look a shiny object we're going to save your trees you won't even know we're there we're going to be very very glad at least until the construction starts it is not the responsibility of the city of cochran to help you fit your 10 gallons of stuff in our 5 gallon bucket and when all is said and done we know from experience that you're set up further down the road looking for another community looking for another five gallon box um i'm just frustrated uh beyond words that uh this this type of horse trading or or uh um negotiating for peds and all this sort of stuff is even a lot to happen amen right is that your final your final comment yes ma'am all right thank you sorry are you feeling better a little bit day by day thank you all right we'll see you next month we do have another hand raised online steve bartz steve if you could give me a call 763-258-4272 steve yes yes could you please mute your uh there we go thank you so much go ahead and state your name and yes thank you could you state your full name and address for the record yes my name is steve bartz i live at 130 bergamot drive i am directly basically where the new road would come out onto hackamore our house is straight up from that so as i look out my back window here i can see the the beautiful uh barn right now um i guess i kind of sit with others that we realize there's got to be progress i mean that's life uh we are concerned just about this the density aspect of it all the number of town homes that are going in combined with the way i understand it and an expert at this but this request to um make the standard single-family home plot smaller so we're in my mind we're we're trying to jam as many people as humanly possible into this space and i get it that was that a school district is it's what a lot of people want so i fully understand that but with the new construction going on on county road 30 here's a heading into plymouth all the new homes um on the corner in plymouth this doesn't seem like it quite fits right it's kind of a beautiful corner and as you were stating earlier right this is going to be one thorough way into your city this is the first thing people are going to see well what i'm kind of concerned about now if i look across 101 i see those nice new homes that are built but i see probably half of those homes have sliding glass doors sitting there with a big wood plank underneath it where they didn't finish construction of say a deck so you that's kind of the view you're gonna have here in these in these homes looking out my back window you're gonna have very very thin lots with homes stamped almost to the edge of each one of those pieces of property um and that's going to be our view and i hope there's some consideration into uh not allowing what is happening in plymouth over here where you know you can put in a sliding glass door and say someday i'll put in a deck and maybe they do maybe they don't if that's their that's truly kind of the gateway into your city it's probably not a really good look for people to look to the right and see these unfinished back yards so hopefully there's some more consideration into just the number of people that we're trying to force into this small space that is going to go on to a corner that we all know is going to pick up in um in traffic as the years go on there's just no way to stop that and that road as it comes out right there that's going to be the main way out there's not a lot of distance it's like 650 feet to that to the stoplight well right now in the morning it's already busy there's already cars backed up i can look out my back window here and now we're going to put all those people there it's going to be hard to get out there in that one spot so i'm hoping they're thinking about truly how people get out in the morning to go to work with kids heading to school um and what that's going to do to put that many people in that space so thank you for your time thank you i'm going to end the call now awesome all right so we don't have any further hands raised online at this time mr chair okay um all right uh at this point then um i'll take a motion to close the public hearing i'll make that motion for a second i'll second all right all those in favor closing the public hearing say hi opposed all right this public hearing is now closed oh um all right uh commission discussion recommendations obviously i'm sure we all have lots of opinions and thoughts we've heard a lot of various opinions and thoughts um you know i'm ready for this but please anybody that would like to start go ahead mr commissioner lanternman thank you mr chair i think that this commission should recommend denial of this application for a planned unit development a developer is essentially asking the city to provide quote flexibility to depart from the city's code from the city codes requirements in exchange for benefits conferred upon the city i think that that flexibility has been abused and really it's more than flexibility it's throwing away the certainty afforded by our laws people take comfort in and this is evidenced by the callers and the letters that the city received in knowing that the law is certain that for example a single family zoning district is what it says it is and it will remain that way instead the pud has given more than flexibility from or relaxation of ordinances it has completely eviscerated them so that they become meaningless and all of a sudden the certainty of the law is gone the pud has been used as a mechanism to ask for a lot and essentially rewrite the laws for the benefit of a developer for which very little is given in return this mechanism is ideally useful and could serve an important purpose but unfortunately i think that the flexibility slash benefits analysis has resulted in the city being taken advantage of this case is no different the applicant has requested extensive rewrites of the code for themselves briefly they want us to remove the garage requirements and lot size requirements they also want to install town homes where at present they cannot be built the current zoning is rsf1 which is single family this is more than simple flexibility in exchange the applicant promises that the city will receive the following benefits and again i'll give you the nickel version because i want to be mindful of time uh on the slide i saw a couple of bullet points number one preserve wetlands okay well isn't that already a legal duty preserve or plant more buffers can someone articulate for me how this is a benefit to the city they want to plant 12 trees okay is that really the kind of deal that corcoran needs 12 trees for removing the certainty of our laws provide a private park now let me ask you how is a private park a benefit to the city yeah i'm a resident here what does a private park do for me this is a benefit for the builders customers and the builder's customers alone this shouldn't even be on their slide another purported benefit is accommodation of the hackamore road on on road trail within the project rather than within the right-of-way uh can can someone explain what this means i mean do i understand correctly that the trail tucked further back in in to the development away from hackamore is some kind of a benefit to the city i think if you have the scales out in way the developers asks against what they are claiming are benefits to the city it's a bad trade and in fact it's a joke this is the kind of trade that my kid would regret if they made the deal with a classmate the city would be giving a huge amount of deference to the developer and carving out huge exceptions for them in exchange for when you really think about it not much of anything what residents have written in and called about are also my concerns i think that this application should be denied thank you okay thank you commissioner may i go please cheers you may certainly can i begin with two questions for clarification um one is for the city my understanding is that the anything that is developed on the site save a place of worship or a school has to meet the residential density requirement of at least three is that correct so the density is that's the goal that we're looking for really what we're looking for at the end of the day is that the overall density in the area is three acres so if one plaque comes in that's a little under three acres it might fit within the context of still making that average of three acres at the end of the day um but i mean ideally that's what we'd like to see on a plant just to make the numbers nice and easy but we believe there's enough density in the area that we're still needing that three acre app at three periods three units per acre three units thank you for correcting me yes that is what i meant so to clarify each individual parcel does not have to or each individual pud does not have to meet that minimum of three yeah but you still want to close those so you can get that to the average at the end of the day yes okay and so in that area you said we're already meeting we we are on track to meet that density requirement for this area so i did the math and i i mean it's at 129 residential units right now but we and that's at three nine is the density then of this place so we could potentially even to reach still three in this area lose 30 units and drop down as low as 98 if anyone wants to check my math feel free but then also i wanted to ask the landowners because i know mr and mrs hoagland are here but then i believe maybe somebody else as well you guys want to sell right okay so i guess the reason i ask just for it to be stated is that i think what we're attempting to do here is to find there's a landowner who wants to sell and then there's a developer who wants to come in and we're trying to bridge that in a way that meets um sure earlier it was reference that i supposedly owned three properties the reason greg and jackie have been at 19220 for 22 years the reason i had to purchase a couple neighboring homes was to fend off a large national developer called lenoir who was going to buy those and boxes in so in theory i've saved that land for the city for a long time by paying property taxes and what have you to fend off the development and then i just had another question uh more specific and maybe to polti um as i was thinking about is it possible hearing some of the concerns about the density it would it be possible to lower the density trying to look specifically again recognizing that we're in a position and trying to find a bridge is the reason why the townhome block that's on the southwest corner that's 119 to 129 would not work as single family homes is it because of the location to the wetland i guess i don't know if the slide is even possible to put up sorry give me one second that block that's it it's the one where we're talking about the setback from um the hackamore road specifically and maybe that's not a question that can be answered but just was that a question for staff or the applicant uh either one can anyone speak to is there is it is there not enough area for that specific area to be single family homes are you referencing these units here yes yep so this is the town homes that are um southwesterly yeah the only ones that are exterior essentially the two buildings there is what you're speaking of yeah um well the reason why those were town homes is because across the street are town homes and oftentimes you try to bulk them together that way okay okay that makes sense but i didn't think of that i mean i appreciate the response um what was my other [Music] question and then i guess i my other comment that i had was the same is the some of the benefits being listed are things that are required in terms of preserving the wetland and contributing to the development of the road i staff i appreciate that you touched on that that anything that goes in on this parcel would be a part of the improvement to the hackamore road um and so just making sure that it isn't specific to this particular applicant that's what i have for now i'll join in if i have more great thank you and mine's fairly quick because i in general want to say i agree with commissioner landerman i you know reading over the comments all the letters they can i mean a lot of i i don't know it's ended it being 20 plus letters probably came in emails that came in all really challenging this that people built homes bought homes looking at our our our zoning maps and seeing that what this was supposed to be and that that makes your decisions and then we just change it and that just doesn't sometimes i haven't been doing this album it just doesn't seem right and so you know we have we have these maps and we're we're saying the this is this is what we're trying to to stick to and i know this is in the musa so there's there's some extra restrictions here but this was already zoned as as a as residential single-family residential and i just think that should be the end of this of the discussion as far as i'm concerned i don't see why unless a whole bunch of other residents were like excited about this i don't see why we would want why we would allow allow this when we already made the decision in advance so that's all i have to say about that okay well you know to answer just that general question um th this is a dilemma and and i'll uh i'll um uh give recognition uh to paul for if if if anybody read the narrative um he uh he points out the dilemma of this whole of this whole thing and it's not necessarily caused by the city it's not caused by the staff it's not caused by the developer it's caused by the met council and the met council needs to just they need to concentrate on putting pipe in the ground for sewer that's what they were that's what they were designed to do when they were first originated and and now they're in every aspect of our life and and this city cannot cannot develop this site we couldn't develop crook lake highlands based upon the way we zoned it because we are living by a standard of three to five homes per acre pure and simple and and and um and so you know it would be ingenuous to say that the is just trying to stuff this thing to make more money the fact of the matter is is that there's a give and take here now um mr how are you i was here the night you gave your presentation in in november and somebody had asked you you know can you develop this according to the zoning and you did in fact in public say yes you could do it under the current zoning single-family residential but as part of that we would lose wetlands and they would have to cut down some trees because you gotta you're gonna have to put you know x number of family homes on 85 foot or 80 foot lot wide lots and and if they stuck to that i guarantee you the arguments here tonight wouldn't be about traffic it'd be about the lack of they filled in the wetlands they cut down all the trees that we all know we all have seen that we've all had to deal with it that's what we'd all be arguing about to know tonight why do we have a tree preservation program and this pd thing which is the bane of my frustrations for you know everything that we've been doing here since we got sewing water is is is really a good avenue for the developers you know because they're using this and it's not just polti every developer has used it against the city that's why every development has been a pud because you can't develop according to the zoning without getting that three to five acres per unit um so um i i you know until the city wants to just either say to the council i'm sorry god made this particular 38 acres of of land blessed it with nature and wetlands and you know what we want to keep that and we want it to be the cornerstone of the entrance to our city and by gosh if that has to be 80 foot wide lots then that's what it's gonna be and if it doesn't come up to that three to five too bad but i don't know that the city we have not we have not crossed that barrier yet um so in principle um i think everybody here is right in the sense that you know we saw it firsthand when when the church came your neighborhood sees it with tavara you know everybody's like how how do you get a low density single-family residential designation but yet we loaded up how many times are down there right on the corner this is going to be the first thing you see when you come up 116. wait till those get built folks it's going to be an eye-opener when you see those things um but it doesn't make any sense and and if i was somebody who lived in the neighborhoods or in the surrounding properties i saw that and everybody might recognize that yes it should be developed into single family and it is shocking that all of a sudden now we're faced with uh having town homes so you either deny it based on the principle or you approve it based upon the history and this city has a history of setting this stuff in precedence and and i can't in good conscience not recognize that um one more option you can deny it based on the law okay there was just one one more option that wasn't mentioned okay and and of course if we recommend to deny again we don't have the power to deny or approve we just make a recommendation now the history of this thing um mr oakland has every right to sell this and to profit from it that's the american way um [Music] uh the community and and this commission and the city council i think correctly denied eagle brook church it really was just the wrong thing that just that was over and above what was really deemed to be acceptable now you look at this did they meet the three to five acres yes they do what's the density of of ravinia three to five acres units per acre or three to five units per acre the same density folks i don't care how you want to cut it up it's the same thing um to our friends to the south you guys live in a blessed neighborhood and i'd be amazed if in my lifetime you ever saw that thing ever developed again under under what's happening both at the state legislature with zoning restrictions as well as the met council so consider yourselves lucky that that you live in such a nice area regardless of what the values are you truly are unique that'll never be accepted here and i don't think the city is ever going to be in a position where you know we can we can grant your every wish to a lifestyle that you live in that is somehow going to transfer itself into here um uh you know apologize it's it's going to be more dense you're going to see it regardless of what we build uh or whoever builds there so i'm not um [Music] i'm not going to be persuaded by by some of that the traffic of course uh is an issue um i think uh there's always going to be legitimate concerns this thing with hackamore road is i think long overdue i did want to ask mr hogan one question you mentioned 47 is that going to be a four lane road or two lane road coming to 101 he's going to say it too okay i just wanted to know if there was going to be this huge disparity between the east and the west side of 101. okay all right um now i i i did want to just get back to just some specific things about the plan um we as a commission packet were not given uh a landscape plan i i don't believe and so my question is if you could bring up uh at least this thing here whatever one i don't see any trees within [Music] the separated open spaces if you will uh between the townhomes and the wetlands or the single-family detached residential properties is that by design or did am i really just looking at okay yeah i mean this one technically says proposed trees well i know there's none there well no there's proposed trees and these are i think the trees that they're building on the west side right so i get that but it'd be like a normal landscape plan all these single family homes all have a requirement for a tree and you don't see a single one there so i'm just trying to figure out what is the landscape plan between the single-family residential and the townhomes and i don't have a plan that shows anything about the screening that or the requirement i mean you can't just by the fact that you have driveway you you have more tarmac and you have blades of grass for all these townhomes in the front yard that's just the nature of the beast but you've got a lot of rear land and so the report says well they'll plant a tree in the front where they can accommodate it whereas i would think hey i don't care you you're going to plant an overstory tree for every unit if you can't fit it in the front why not put it in the back or it'll do some good okay see now that that is one we did not get this trim looking for it in the packet um if i don't find it it was an error and should have expected yeah i looked through it three times i didn't find it so good luck um but anyway is that is that the uh is that a fair representation paul or what you guys are gonna do yes and this is showing some existing trees no that's quite all right i heard you this is showing some existing trees in very light shades and new trees in the dark shades forgive me i don't know the plan well but oftentimes in these landscape plans there's there's additional trees that are planted with the building of the homes too so sometimes there's additional trees placed on the lots that aren't shown here because the locations are chosen by the buyer okay all right um i i'm sure that i'm sure that our professional staff has worked with your professional staff and if they say you need to plan x number trees i'm hoping they're there but if you folks could just verify again you may not be able to plant them in the front yard but it behooved me as to why we're not loading up i mean you know you know the developer has shown a sincere i think interest in in trying to put up as much screening as they can for the outside perimeter but we should also they should also and the residents of this future develop if it's approved by the city council should seek to get as much as much barrier screening that they can between the single family and the town homes because it of course looks like a lot of space it does not look like it would be a difficult thing so all right um paul i um now i'm not very familiar with these sites because they are privately owned so while i do like to go out and look at every site that i can this is one that i just didn't want to start tramping around 40 acres so i'm not very familiar with the composition or the existence of the wetland but you made comments now to this commission here that you guys have created these wetlands as a benefit now are we are we talking about wetlands that you guys are going to dig and create or are they already there actually in existence mr chair yes all the wetlands are there currently okay but there are some storm water basins that you guys will have to construct yes and and how do those interact with the existing wetlands do they so we've heard from a resident who said that you guys that they want to put white waste water from or storm water from this side over into the other neighborhood across the road mr chair i think she was talking about lennar uh made that request uh okay for ravinia oh okay we have not apologies i haven't um minnesota is um very robust in our stormwater laws i've worked across the country and we've got very good very strong laws and regulations we would follow the laws typically how it works is we have storm water treatment plant uh ponds that slow down the water hold it back release it at a gradual rate the rate post-development has to be no more than pre-developments oftentimes we collect the water it settles in the pond the pollutants fall to the bottom and the clean water goes into the wetlands that's typically how it works um if you want more details i'm sure engineer online if he's still awake would be happy to say more oh let's move on we still got a busy schedule so i'm curious as to why in this staff report we have talked about monument signs it was mentioned even in our first item of business we've talked about it on um county road 116 we've talked about it on county road 10 we'll be talking about on count road 30. was there any discussion about a monument sign at the corner of brockton laner 101 in hackamore i didn't see anything in the report dealing with that i don't believe that the app can propose any signage with the plan mr chair yes sir we did raise that issue because we heard about that issue from city staff back in the november city council meeting so it was referenced in that application didn't seem to get much traction with the city council so i think it just faded away we are open to providing at no cost an outlet for building a city monument okay well but then equally interesting is that there was no there was no development science now you only have the one the one entrance off of hackamore but i mean everybody else seems to want to put their their development sign right there at their entrances or multiple entrances but you guys have chosen not to put any mr chair we would come in later with a sign application oh okay yeah all right does this commission want to recommend to the city council that they work with the applicant to install a a nice entrance sign i would like to recommend that they not approve the application at all okay all right um well let it be noted that discussion from the at least for me was put out there okay [Music] now to get back to that that issue about developing this as as it was zoned do you recall saying that and i'm not going to hold you to it or anything like that because what i'm what i'm trying to just get at is if that were in fact true do you have any idea how many units you would have to build i suppose if it's three to five you know but you got the calculation that's that's of course uh dictated by the met council and and maybe in a good way i don't have that that you know memorized um i just take it maybe for granted that somebody else is doing that calculation correctly but um what what would it mean in terms of losing wetlands and because with a wetland to get rid of a wetland then don't you have to buy wetland credits somewhere else at a pretty expensive penny yeah mr chair um yes a lot of decisions would have to be made with a whole new layout to go straight zoning wetlands tree removal everything would have to be looked at obviously some things are fixed we have a certain amount of streets that we have to connect to at specific locations so some of it is fixed some it's flexible but it would be an entirely different site plan okay all right um i want to ask you about the traffic study because that's that is a big issue so in our packet um under appendix a actually storm model storm water modeling guides um but there is did i is it in a different one it actually might be part of the staff it's actually part of the staff report i apologize all right so are you familiar with this paul um jeff are you are you familiar can you speak to this because i just have a couple general questions mr chair i can speak to generals about the report but i did not prepare the feasibility study so if there's okay so this was prepared by stantec right our engineering consultant okay so in this on page there's no page numbers but it's under section uh 2.4 traffic forecasts and so they model this thing using some some published guide and that's not unreasonable and they they look at it specifically to table one weekday trip generation for proposed project they break it down into single family 47 dwelling units and townhomes 82 dwelling units and they've got weekday and peak hour in and out in total and pm peak hour uh weekday daily totals um and not that that is really super com you know compelling or interesting but right below it the distribution percentages for trips generated by the proposed development are pers are described below 15 to and from the north uh 45 to and from the east on hackamore 15 to and from the south 20 to and from the west on the hackamore road 5 to and from the north on golden rule golden rod trail in larkspur lane so what what all is that really telling me i mean 45 to and from the east on road so am i to imply that most of the traffic's going to funnel out the bottom of this thing or coming in and out is going to come from 101 in hackamore from the east mr chair that is correct but that details the distribution of the daily trips so as the city engineer analyzed single family and town homes uh generate a certain number of trips and those the breakdowns of the streets name there then north and south and east and west and hackamore and 101 that's the percentage of those trips that would travel along those roadways so 45 would travel east on hackamore and then 15 would then travel south and 15 then travel north on on county road 101 okay what i want to get to is then first find out is five percent tuned from the north on goldenrod trail and larkspur lane so this is basically saying five percent of the traffic generated from this development in this makeup is going north through ravinia correct but it okay so but that's north on larkspur but it doesn't say it doesn't specifically say how much is going to go out goldenrod right because larkspur is going to take it farther north but if if five percent is going up goldenrod to i don't know what's that road that goldenrod comes up to what is this road right here anybody know um whatever well stephen chase that steeplechase so it doesn't break that down but if five percent is totaled out of a total of 1033 trips it's a weekday total um you're looking at 50 you're looking at what 50 cars a day gonna go through those neighborhoods either to steeplechase or farther north on larkspur okay all right mr chair may ask just one question related to the traffic that you brought up yes please the feasibility said he did it take into account the already approved development in tavera yes okay okay um and mr chair commissioner drummond just to clarify this traffic study was done based on the concept plan as well so the numbers that's why they reflect the concept plan unit numbers thank you so [Music] one of a couple of the things that i was talking to some staff about was in this plan [Music] it's noted that we got town homes that are six units in width and that is actually permitted in our current zoning um there are communities that limit that to two or not two that would be a twin ohm but they limit it to three four but we currently allow six um as i look at this it would just be my contention that if you know because i think we're seeing it in the development right across from the 1050. they seem to be building townhome units that are only three and four wide that are a little bit more attractive in in their entirety than having walls of six units and then six units and six units divided by a total area of 20 feet between bank of of properties um [Music] so i don't know dean i would think that maybe that's something that you know we could review in the future uh for these kinds of uh issues um the other thing is um that park where is it where exactly is that so the the the parks and trail commission didn't require it but if you put it in you're not going to get any credit for it and you want to put that in because apparently the other park in ravini is overused mr chair it's at capacity and we we heard that there was some concern about the capacity of the parks at romania we put the park in there as an option for the city [Music] clearly there hasn't been much interest in it so it was our intention to leave that space as open space however if you'd prefer that we have a tot lot in there in a private park we'd go that direction so we've been very flexible on that issue we've just been looking for some direction [Music] well um hey i you know i got a dog that loves to play frisbee make it a a dog frisbee yard for all i care but um anyway well uh again knowing that you've done some things that admittedly we have not seen every developer try to stick to um especially with regard to tree preservation can you i did want to ask you that trail that you're willing to give the city on the north side of hackamore road now there's quite a few trees along that um in one rendering i saw they were kept and then another they're gone it what's the what's the story there mr chair i was wondering if somebody would catch that error um the rendering shows those trees as red which means removed they won't be removed all of the trees along hackamore should be green the rendering is incorrect okay and the trail would be woven through the trees to avoid them the reason for the trail going off right away is because there has been a little i guess disappointment in many cities with uh the linear streets that are trails that just follow the street um and a lot of city councils have liked the idea of trails weaving on and off right away and just having a more interesting walk or bike ride that's where that came from again we're totally flexible on that okay all right um any other questions or discussion items last one mr chair this there was at the end of the appendix that you provided it said that there was draft hoa documents but i don't think they were included in the packet there was a note that the ones that are at the end of the street that connect with tavara would fall under the or excuse me ravinia would fall under the ravinia homeowners association um and we are then to assume that this entire neighborhood would be governed by an h.o.a yes two hoas actually the town homes have a higher level of service with the snow and the mow and the exterior of the building so that would be one sub-association and then there would be a master association including both the town homes and the single-family homes that would take care of any common space the entrance monument those sorts of things i just have one question because we do touch on the housing affordability and i am curious because almost every new neighborhood going up not not unique or specific to polti has a homeowners association that's filled with a fee so does the market generate that like do people really want to live under a homeowners association overall yes it varies quite a bit obviously if you have private amenities like a tot lot a pool a pool building you must have an hoa for just an entrance monument it becomes a little bit different and some choose to have an hoa and some choose to address it in other other ways deed restrictions things like that so there are different ways to to deal with maintenance of an entrance monuments but oftentimes the the the homeowners associations are also taking care of mailbox bulked areas things like that but usually there's more than just an entrance monument in the mailbox in which case the hoa makes a lot of sense okay thank you so are we at decision point um yeah i mean if there's no other further discussion may i make a suggestion for moving i don't know the formal language for approval but here's the deal like i completely understand and i would say as well i think i understand the frustrations of everyone uh but also the account like the effort from polti um the desire from the hoaglands and i think that this does do make an attempt at kind of finding a middle ground a bridge my one recommendation would be that i feel like in if for since we don't have to come in exactly at three to five on every single preliminary pad if there was any way to move forward in reducing it you know either take it like you know making five or fewer townhomes in a lot or taking a section of townhomes and turning it into single-family homes so that there's a lot lower reduction so we're coming in closer to three than 3.9 then i would be in favor of making a motion to recommend approval well um the as as the applicant noted he he recognizes our frustration as a commission and as a city council over these puds um but again as required to meet those those density quotients it's it's at this point an evil necessity but when it comes to the issue of okay we're going to apply for a pud and with that is inherently we're going to give you something better that you couldn't get under your current zoning so in this particular case i note um these buildings are and i'm not a expert but i can just tell you out of you know when you looked at the design standards we have class one class two and class three commercial building materials right class one being the best class three being that stuff you want on the back side that no one sees now i don't want to overly condemn this but you know we used to think about and this happened in ravinia you know they came out and said well we're gonna have hardy board you know and then all of a sudden it was well we need to see we need to seek some changes you know we need to have you know a different material and before you know it we end up with a bunch of houses with vinyl about the cheapest material you can find if you look at if you looked at the the the the materials for these things everything is vinyl except for the cultured stones which obviously are not real stones at all so we didn't get the upgraded materials that that at least we should have expected maybe you know for granting a pud um [Music] there wasn't you know again there wasn't you know when you're saying the benefit is we're going to pay for the road we're going to save with the wetlands we're going to preserve some trees those should all be inherently to your benefit and to the benefit of the residents that you hope to sell to so that shouldn't be something that is we bargained with you for um [Music] but oddly enough i would think that the benefit would have been you know what we got to seek a pud and we have to use some town homes to kind of grab some density now granted they got a range of three to five they went to four they went the middle of the ground but maybe the benefit to the city is yeah you know what we'll work towards three you know and maybe let's not make them six wide maybe you know i mean we didn't force that upon the other development but that's what they did because i think they think that that's a better that's just a better atmosphere for three or four units but um but the when the city council took a look at this thing back in november and and kind of gave you know that whole process of having the preview is designed so that they can get feedback as to how to make this better now we as a commission i think all recognize that you know we're never going to be able to change this process unless we start standing up and saying this kind of this kind of concession while maybe arguably necessary should not have happened and we don't necessarily care for it you know so we will we will in theory probably vote this down recommend denial but we have precedence we allowed it in ravinia or tavara i'm sorry it does meet the same density as everybody else they are preserving a lot of wetlands i could see where you could equally make an argument that this should be this should be approved but i think though if you're going to approve something like this you could have maybe just done it in a little in in a way that it's maybe you know instead of um you know maybe fewer townhomes maybe bigger lots because we've heard that objection you know so that is what i think would have maybe been some of the benefit to the city is to not have to deal with the issue of well it looks like we just did you know you just did nothing more than load all this up with as much as you can get um it was noted correctly that this is a rare this is a unique property in the fact that it is one of very few development properties left in the school district i don't buy the argument that rich people wouldn't want to live here um you know so you can't support big houses uh on this um people run into that school district bad enough they'll they'll put up with hackamore and 101 especially if these trees and the wetlands are preserved um so i i think if if this was a policy decision not to do this that should have been made by the city council when they reviewed this thing in november and by the fact that they allowed the applicant to spend money to allow the the the um the developer to spend the money to go forward down this thing with this thing [Music] it it it kind of you know it's really more on their um on their on their shoes than it is ours um but um so maybe just i'm just looking at time like maybe i should just put it to the vote so well are you guys ready yeah okay so what's the uh does do we have a motion i'd like to make a motion to deny i'll second it okay now just to be clear there are a number of resolutions so are we going to take this lock stock and barrel so the first one is an ordinance amending title 10 and then there's a proving findings of fact for rezoning and then we have the resolution improving preliminary planned unit development plan for walcott and then there is a resolution all right that's attachment a approving the preliminary platform walcott blend located at the northwest corner so mr chair essentially if the first ordinance doesn't pass then there's no reason yeah okay all right so and that would be the ordinance of mending title 10 correct okay all right there is a second you seconded it correct yeah all right all those in favor of recommending denial of the ordinance amending title 10 the city code to classify certain land located northwest corner hacking more say aye aye aye opposed i and i want to put that vote in there just because i think there's merit to this i think it can be done better and we'll let the city council go so thank you everybody for that okay all right does anybody need a break are we good to go mr chair i would say let's i know there are a number of people here for the next issue so in in respect for them in their time i would say let's do at least the next issue on the agenda yeah okay sorry buddy i just got to get my desk cleared oh all right that's my bed oh okay all right let us move on then to and hopefully this is what you've all been patiently waiting for item 6c public hearing preliminary plat invariance for here anemi meadows at 23 185 county road 10. staff reports please thank you mr chair i need just a time i'll try to keep it brief yes please so just let me know if i miss anything with questions uh so this is located uh off of county road 19 and county road 10. uh land is guided rural ag residential and zoned rural residential with shoreline wetland and floodplain or floodplain overlays on the site it has 13 existing development rights and is proposing to use nine of them with four of them remaining so that they're proposing to use nine development rights for nine rural residential lots the one outlet would retain the four development rights and the variance request is for a smaller lot depth or a single lot one so with the site plan here the access comes off of county road 10 moves south and all nine lots are off of that single access lot 10 on the west is will be renamed out lot a if it were to move forward consistent with planning requirements and would retain the four development rights the applicant did provide a ghost platfor that just indicating that you could position four lots on the site but the layout could change upon a preliminary plot for that portion of the lot so with that single access off county road 10 they would be required by the county to provide a 50-foot half right-of-way on county road 10 and a right turn lane to be completed with this development and the county did note that a left turn lane would be required of any development to add more lots to that long cul-de-sac because the property to the east abuts that long cul-de-sac road for a very great distance so an access would likely come off of that road and add more units onto that road which would then trigger additional improvements to county road 10. all lots are this is outside of the musa so all of the lots are served with well and septic no public utilities and because there are shoreline wetlands flood plain on the site all kind of intermingled together there are some minor revisions that have need to happen as part of that to meet conditions for things such as wetland setbacks shoreline boundary is bounded by the floodplain in this case um and so making sure they meet the setbacks for that um as additional floodplain information is needed to determine the extent of that floodplain which would then determine the boundary of the shoreland so it's kind of an interplay between all three of those in this case one of the main pieces for this is the trails on the site so the applicant is proposing to provide the off-road trail identified by the comp plan that runs along the west side of rush creek the parks commission did recommend that this be a wood chip or a moan trail since the vast majority of it is in the flood plain and would likely be seasonally flooded so a paved or permanent trail would not be appropriate um and they did recommend the trailers would be connected to county road 19 along the southern boundary consistent with staff's recommendation they did a recommended additional connection along the northernmost portion of the property where to bust county road 19 so not all the way up to county road 10 but on county road 19 just south of that staff is recommending that that be done when the plat to the or the outlaw be platted as the alignment for that trail would likely change depending on the lot layout for those four development rights and that no credit would be given for any part of that trail easement that's in the flood plain so they would only get a small piece of park dedication for that so the parks commission did recommend accepting the trail easement and cash and lou for remainder all of the cash and lieu amount would be determined at final plat based on the final alignment of the trail and how much acreage they would actually get credit for the variance will reduce minimum lot depth for lot one lot depth is defined as the mean horizontal distance between the front law line and the rear lot line of a lot given the shape of lot one which i'm just going to throw up really quick is this lot over here a lot depth would be measured from the road here on this west side to the property boundary on this east side and given the shape of the lot that with a mean lot depth it doesn't meet the lock depth definite definition let's go back to the um that it doesn't meet that minimum lock depth and given the proximity to rush creek makes it challenging to make substantial changes to the road to push it to the west to allow for more lot depth or to swing the road around just it's challenging with all the site constraints so staff felt that there was merit to a variance and so there is criteria the applicant did respond to the variance criteria and staff did provide their input on those findings for the variants and the two routes on that variance would be if the planning commission feels that the criteria had been met they would move forward with the plat as drafted if they were not met it could stand alone and be denied separate from the preliminary plat and then they would have to revise the plat to comply with all zoning standards and it would be a revision to the plat but it could be two separate independent actions or one joint action depending on the way the commission feels um and so this is a public hearing for the preliminary plat and the application as a whole because of the preliminary flat um and so staff does recommend approval of the primary plat and the variants but if the planning commission as i said finds that the variant standards have not been met they may recommend denial for that um and it could the preliminary plot would be separate then from that motion so if there's any questions for staff and i believe the applicant is also on the virtually present okay great thank you at this point we'll open up the meeting for the public hearing is there anybody in the crowd that would like to address the commission you people have not been sitting here all this long just uh not to say you find this entertaining are you not here for this one they yeah oh okay all right all right all right um would you like to i live at two two nine four five county road tent um so i'm i'm right i'm the on the other side of the mountain so and i'm also involved with the virtual school that's right at the corner and um so what i looked right where they have a property line at the first full school so the first thing i noticed was that the first big tree on the personal pro or the virtual property is on their line will all the trees are they going to take out the whole line fence of trees okay maybe if you could just here just point it out to me where where is this tree what line what trees are you talking about professional school and this is all trees all the way down all right and you're talking the first road tree here that's the whole thing yeah so that's my property okay well i have the same question um uh mr chair the applicant once we're ready to have them call in says he can comment on that um i don't want to have him call in now or we want to wait until the end for all the questions why why don't we i was going to ask the same question so we'll get you an answer here okay but please continue and then well when i was when i went back to my um it's the corner of it's the southeast corner of the relic farm they have the there's a low spot it's swamp it's my pond there's a creek that goes through and then they have it it's all flagged off around it and they have a flag on my property on my side of the correct and i think according to what i'm looking at where that that first that first lot number one is back by their so are they going to have a lot of elevations like this one these flats two and one and two are they gonna bring in a lot of fill and that's gonna affect the drainage for my fine if they are to be this for that chaperone drive that access that accesses all the lags they're concerned that headlights hit in front of their house right so i've had conversations with that mr chair do you want cities to have to respond to those or do you want to wait till you take all the comments um take all the comments and then that that's the way we've traditionally done it is is uh just for our members of the public on zoom just to get us started when you if you would like to speak on this item for the public hearing please press star 9 for your phone otherwise if you're on a tablet or computer please raise your hand this is accessible via the reactions tab at the computer at least at the bottom of your screen and at this time no one's raising your their hand but the applicant has indicated um wanting to speak and like i said he probably can answer a few questions as well so he's ready to call in once we give him the go ahead well by all means bring him in yes please want to close the public hearing and have him call or do we want to keep it open um no at this point he's part of the public hearing nate is that you yes all right go ahead okay um you know thank you commissioners and staff there's uh there was a question about the tree line um we actually made the determination to pull the road back from the um from the property in order to avoid touching that tree line so um i didn't know if there was a specific tree that was in question but um you know that's a very old tree line you know with the way that's been farmed and uh it is our intention and it is our um at least our measurements are showing that because we pulled that tree line here i mean sorry that the road shifted it uh to the west that none of those trees would be affected um so that's that's one thing and then um uh thank you kevin from landform for uh walking through the the lot one um we actually looked at another way to meet all the requirements on lot one and what would have been required is to have a quite an awkward almost square shaped bend in the road and and that by bending that road into kind of a i guess you could say a horseshoe shape at the very end we could have met the requirements um but the reality is um it just seemed like uh the more graceful curve that is is pictured from you um which necessitates the variance is probably appreciated by um snowplowing staff and maybe just makes sense for a lot of reasons so i just wanted to mention that as well okay that's good um so um can i ask you a question while you're online yeah absolutely yeah so uh when i was out there the other day i i must have missed you i i stopped out uh just to take a look at things and i got to be honest i was going to go home and get on google earth to measure it because i was i must have been standing out there on like lot eight you know i walked by your dogs nice dogs and i went out there and i started looking at this thing and when you look to the east and you see that tree line right and then you look to the west it down to where you know where the uh the crick is going to be or the crick is [Music] so um it says 879 feet just as as one of the lines as an example um [Music] and i really seriously i was like there's no way that is only 875 feet i think that was like a mile i i was like that that has to be uh par 5. i is are these measurements correct it's they're only 800 700 600 feet deep from that road all the way to the crick i i'm gonna assume they are i just i i just wonder if i'm gonna assure you am i am i missing something i guess distances can be deceiving um you know this isn't to like the um previous discussions where we're talking uh yeah 75 foot you know so yeah no i i yeah i can assure you they're quite accurate okay all right um i'll have another question for you later in our discussion so let's just uh was there anything else you uh you wanted to uh address otherwise otherwise thanks for the consideration the flag in my property oh uh are you still there yeah uh there was a flag on a neighboring property do you know anything do you know what was going on there a flag on a neighboring property i'm um i mean i i actually um i am not on site there uh the only thing i can imagine is that that sounds like uh unfortunately my uh surveyors and uh wetland delineation folks have been out there but um there's nothing to prevent like neighbor kids from unfortunately um pulling up my flags or moving them around so i can only assume i mean i mean there certainly would have been something placed on the neighboring property from uh from my side or from any of my professional staff okay wait are we talking about like a surveyor's flag or are you talking about an american flagpole or you know okay so a utility flag yeah it may be that it's noting where it crosses the boundary possibly with the wetland delineations i mean yeah why would that be on my property well if it because if it shares it my understanding it could probably have engineering to speak to it but i believe what they have to do is they have to mark the entire wetland so if there's a wetland on one of those lots they're going to have to have to basically understand where that whole the extent of that wetland is um so i believe that's probably what's going on and we could probably have uh someone from stantec give you a call if you'd like to leave your contact information right because you're saying more than likely that you're that part of your property is probably part of the wetland is what you're saying yes i believe that's what so they just marked everything if they come out and stake the property line do you have any do you have any they have a steak they saw the steak in the um southeast corner and they've got uh the northeast corner too dominant visual schools also stay and everything looks to be correct i don't know i'll have to get a surveyor out there [Laughter] okay she also had a question about drainage runoff the wetland and stuff and that would be for this corner down here right down by lots one and two yeah are you able to speak to the drainage on lots one two lots one and two nate um well yeah just to say that um at this point um i believe the conditions require a full um stormwater plan uh i believe it has to pass the army corps of engineers and possibly some additional agencies as well so we while we don't have a fully fleshed out stormwater plan um certainly the intention of the plan is to help properly direct water and you know not create i mean there wouldn't be a erosion or any other uh water drainage issues allowed so i guess the short answer is no but i know we have to draft a full storm water plan as part of our it's process of your questions whether or not he plans to fill those wetlands elevation no okay um answer your question so i think part of her question was whether or not the elevations would be increased on those lots um is that your intent at this time or that's what's being looked at oh yeah i no i see the question um no we are not proposing any elevation changes that i guess i couldn't necessarily speak to the the future homeowner uh if they would um you know i guess what build up a foundation or um you know i couldn't speak to the ultimate level of the home because that's not that's not um i'm not constructing a home on the site and i think that would be handled at the at the time of the building permit and then the road that's going to come in the prop where is that road going to be off a county road town that's going to go on at the shepherd where's that chaperone going to be it's right next to the tree line something right next to the tree it's not going to go next to the tree he's not taking the trees out but right next to it well i heard let me i can have that if i find a dimension here how many feet did they move it over from the property line [Applause] of course i would think it would be it's not scale none of the scale wait you can't put a driveway right on the property line i wouldn't think you'd be able to put a road i mean i know a driveway is supposed to be at least five feet uh to answer your question mr chair uh the right way is 75 feet and i don't have a scale to tell you exactly how far the street is from the right-of-way edge but it's pushed over towards the west boundary line and given the street with it's likely between 20 and 25 feet from the property line okay all right mr caranini yes um your you use auto uh brothers auto associates um do you know if they're coming out anytime in the future um yeah they they would um yeah part of our process would be to re-stake all of these boundaries um was there something that to be clarified well i mean i think you know because i i i too did i i was a little i mean when i walked it i of course i wasn't going to walk all the way uh to the south i i just went to lot eight uh but i mean there wasn't a lot of staking out there um that i might traditionally expect to see um and so it was really kind of hard to you know get a full grasp even though this is very simple but if she's requesting you know to see exactly where the road is maybe uh next time they're out there they could stake you know where that you know where where the the the mouth of uh chaparral drive or lane would be um [Music] yeah that that um i i would uh add that the only reason so we actually had um soil tests completed and a lot of the staking was was completed but um unfortunately the farmer had a lease so there was a lease that had been grandfathered in to plant in that field last year so i had to remove all the survey stakes yeah so so yeah we've we've already made all these measurements and what we'll do because that's not being farmed with us here is um we'll actually uh plant the cover crop out there and then we'll replace all the steaks including the the ones that will show where the road accesses so yes we will have all that available will that help just on that road the neighbor that was here has a concern i've spoke to them in the past where that rope comes out it will shine directly into their front yard their front in the front of their house so i don't know what can be done to help that neighbor but that would be a concern once it comes in front of the council it will it'll align it'll be shannon right in the front front windows dean the only thing i can say i you know as a member as a guy who's looking you know for retirement housing there was a house we were looking at up north and it right the dead end of a cul-de-sac and and i looked at my wife and i said nope if there's one thing i've learned you do not buy the house at the dead end of a cul-de-sac i i turn my lights off in my cul-de-sac for you know charlie's place because i i just know that it can be but there's nothing you know but what do you what do you the neighbor i mean aside from aside from doing plantings but you know we've talked about doing you know doing some screening on other property you know that's not part of the development and i think the lawyers have said yeah you don't want to do that so i mean short of moving the road to gap it somewhere i suppose that's possible but i guess that would have to be something that would have to be designed through staff interaction with uh otto my my solution if they when when this comes in front of the council is towards the end of the road where it comes to ten turn it to the west and then plant on that corner some more can i say light blocking and stuff so when the cars are coming down it's not shining at that house and when they go to get out onto 10 they're making a slight turn to the left but again you're back into squaring up to 10 and see it traffic both ways it's a concern of those well i mean yeah and and i i i certainly can legitimize those concerns but i just is the is it too late in the process here to make those kinds of changes staff you got a do you got a recommendation here if mr chair this is preliminary plus this would be where we look at doing those changes um as far as mr varenkamp's point about turning the angle because this is a county road all access is permitted through the county in terms of where the access happens along with if we were to come at something other than a 90 degree angle to the road there are limitations as to how angled you can come in you know degree wise i don't know those off the top of my head but i know there are restrictions um and then same thing if you were to plant you know bushes or buffers there is just a traffic site visibility component with that you have to limit the height on those so it would just be finding the right balance between again a driver yeah that's what that neighbor was talking about or was concerned about and now's the time to just bring it to everybody's attention and see what can be done well i mean they certainly meet all the depth right every single one of these lots they need all the minimum acreage so even if you did kind of a one of these things down here you know if it only needed to go 20 30 feet it you know i suppose it could be done but can you can you folks help facilitate that then one second do we want to close the public hearing i'm sorry that's fine but you can help facilitate that right yes mr chair staff can work to facilitate a realignment of the access into the property that's the direction from that can i add can i add one more comment sure um the the uh and well i appreciate that um i i didn't know that that was a concern in the neighborhood um i will say that um i've already done the um access review um with jason gottfried and mike olmstead with hennepin county who has to permit the access onto a county road and they had recommended that particular access point as meeting public safety standards and um also meetings uh distancing guidelines coming from the intersection so um i just uh i just wanted to you know how while i'm sympathetic to that point um i know there's there's a balancing of of multiple um you know agencies and and um that's where hennepin county wanted to see that access coming okay okay is there any other comments sir did you have anything else you wanted to add or was that it oh that's all thank you it's i'm gonna end the call right now nate um and then i'll let you know we need you to call back in okay oh sure thank you so much mr chair may i make a motion to in the public meeting yes is there a second second all right all those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye aye opposed all right public hearing is now closed all right uh commission discussion and recommendation [Music] anybody have anything they'd like to lead off with yes sir i think that this application should be approved for the variants for lot one i appreciate staff catching this issue i think that the requirements for granting a variance here have been met i think the road placement and the storm water pond are practical difficulties that could make a strict adherence to the average lot depth foolish and would result in undesired consequences in reading the packet it also seems that the storm water pond is a condition that the landowner did not create so i find that convincing i think that strict compliance with the 300 foot average lot depth would result in undesired consequences i will also vote to recommend approval on that second item and mr chair i need to be at work at 7 30 tomorrow morning so if there's anything i can do to kind of speed things along i would be happy to okay thank you and i concur with his uh i agree with both the variance and the and the preliminary plot from my perspective i would recommend approval i would make recommend approval as well okay uh i also think this is a great development i agree with the uh variants i i did have just one question um there is quite a bit of enhanced wetland setback um what was the what was the reason for that the buffer zone was that mr chair the the buffer was added in order to meet all of the different overlays that are present on site with the shoreline and the floodplain and the wetland it was easier to include a wetland buffer that is greater to encompass all of those within one buffer rather than have like a tiered buffer you know like three separate buffers it's just one buffer all in the same area and you just extend the wetland by doing that okay all right um one other clarification on page one in the very first section um [Music] it says uh create nine lots lot 10 should be planted as outlet a outlot a will retain three development rights and may be planted in the future you go to next page i can preliminary plot the site has 13 development rights the applicant's proposal shows nine residents with the four remaining development rights being assigned to lot 10. so can you clarify for me what what is this mr chair there was an error in the first paragraph it should say four it is correctly referenced in the resolution and the following references to four development rights but the first paragraph where it spelled out three should have been changed to four to be correct okay and um [Music] you you down here then it at lower in the page the applicant has requested a variance for the lot depth requirement for lot 1 which is discussed later and then it says lot 2 does not meet the lot width standard of 200 feet and a revised plot showing 200 feet of lot width must be submitted but at the top the plat shows compliance with all rr with the rr for all lots except one is lot 2 not in compliance in one facet or another mr chair lot 2 is not in compliance as currently but the staff conditions address the non-compliance so that all the lots would be in compliance at time of approval however lot 1 would not be because of the variance and that variance that's where the variance approval is needed okay great all right um any further questions or discussion oh all right is there a motion uh let's see we have um well we have the approval proving preliminary plat and uh that is that's it right just one resolution i believe it's handled and just yeah that is correct mr chair it's one resolution handling the variance and the preliminary flat okay and there are no changes um is there a motion to approve this preliminary plot and variance i'll make that motion a second all those in favor say aye aye opposed all right yes thank you all right item d public hearing for the ditzer garage conditional use permit at 9320 cherry lane staff report please mr chair may i suggest that we've read this and i would suggest that we skip the reading i agree in this particular case i'll agree with you thank you all right um let's open up the public hearing is there anybody here that would like to address the commission on this issue all right hello commissioners benjamin ditzer hi nice to meet you nice to meet you i'm 320 cherryland i'm the also the applicant or the owner of the home future garage owner i appreciate your consideration i only have one request that i noticed in the packet and it is the condition to move the canopy structure i've brought with me a couple pictures of the structure so i can show you what it looks like they were in our packet okay the picture so not the garage structure but did you include a picture of the slanted roof higher in the front no sorry it's a different picture yeah put on the tv there was a condition in there that um is a requesting reasoning oh this has to be moved correct um and i just i'm sorry i'm trying to full screen yep that's fine let me uh let me interrupt you is there any commissioners that feel that the applicant should be required to remove that structure does it sit somewhere it's 100 within the property line it's just close to the side property line yes so this prop 1.8 feet of the property line and structures are supposed to be 20 feet accessory structure supposed to be 20 feet from the property line so one option for the commission would be if we don't want to require him to move it then he would need to require a variance so we could require a variance upon approval it's the property line's somewhere over there yeah it's one in the back be the back right corner yeah the back right corner is 1.8 feet away from the property line the lot line if you can see in the survey is very uh i apologize for interrupting you but it is an open hearing and you have the floor so please continue no problem the bottom line's just irregular and so at that point it comes from the right side of your screen and jogs across the marsh so in that point in particular it's pretty close i was not the original designer or installer of this structure it was an inherited feature that i enjoy actually so i'm just respectfully asking if you would consider i don't know what the variance process is but i guess that's what it would be requesting a little bit but we can definitely do that if the commission would prefer that as a condition of approval that is an option otherwise i'm just looking to build a nice garage with no living quarters only cars sir before you uh let you go do you want to speak to the staff recommendation to move your your building so that yes yeah i have no problem moving the building um or building a retaining wall either one works i think we have enough room on the lot to move the garage away so we achieve the four to one um i think it's just a matter of measuring degrading and my contractor was here but he couldn't last through the marathon so yeah i don't have an issue with that part of it that makes two of us yes yes i should have bought popcorn tonight all right anything else that's it appreciate you all right thank you very much is there anybody online uh members of the public online if you'd like to speak on this item for the public hearing it is the garage cup for increased sidewall height please press star 9 if you're on your phone otherwise raise your hand via the reactions tab on other devices and mr chair i don't see anyone raising their hand at this point mr chair i'd like to make a motion to end the public meeting i will second that all right all those in favor of ending the uh public hearing say aye aye aye opposed public hearing is now closed comments discussion mr chair i just have a question and it's just about the issue that's brought up so it requires us staff the decision today requires us to make a decision about the accessory structure yeah so um planning commission basically the issue is as part of the cup the site needs to be in compliance and that structure does not predate our zoning code so it's not a legal non-conforming structure so our options would be basically if we if you don't want if you feel like you shouldn't have to move the structure because you believe the variance could be applied then i would recommend changing let me look at the i'm looking for wrong reports