[Music] [Music] [Music] Good morning everyone. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Welcome you to city hall and to our council chambers. This morning our invocation uh will be led by chaplain Rodney Applebee with Corpus Christie Fire Department. Chaplain. >> Thank you. Thank you, mayor. Please join me for a word of prayer. Oh, Lord God, we come before you this day giving you thanks. We thank you for being a God of mercy and love and for being with us in this room here today. For your word tells us that you will never leave us nor forsake us. We also give you thanks, oh Lord, for making each one of us, every citizen of this great city and every other city in your image with dignity and worth. I thank you Lord for these your servants our mayor, our city manager, our city council members and our city staff. I thank you Lord for their service, the service that they provide for the citizens of our beautiful city and for their willingness to give unselfishly of themselves, their time and their gifts for many. We pray Lord for wisdom, for strength and for courage to make decisions that are right and good and pleasing to you. May your presence be felt here today and always as you guide and lead those you have chosen to lead the city of Corpus Christi which bears your name. We thank you again, oh Lord, for our mayor, city council, and city staff, and all those who work diligently and honorably to make this place we call home so beautiful. In the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we pray. Amen. >> Thank you. >> Amen. Thank you, chaplain. Uh and this morning our pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the Texas state flag will be led by uh Huitt Williams. He is a second grader at an Annapapolis Christian Academy and he is a very experienced mutton buster right or mutton busting writer. That's right. >> You want to pull that down? Pull. Just pull it. There you go. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic of which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please join me in the honor. I pledge alce to under [Music] Thank you, Huitt. Miss Werto, would you please call the role? >> Mayor Plet Wardo, >> present. >> Council members Roland Barera >> here. >> Council member Gampos is going to be participating by WebEx. Miss Compos, are you there? >> I am here. Present. >> May I see her, please? Thank you so much. Perfect. Okay. Eric Anu >> here. >> Gilnandez here. Kaylin Paxton >> here. >> Ever Roy >> here. >> Mark Scott >> here. >> Carolyn Bond >> here. >> City manager Peter Zenon >> present. >> City attorney Miles Rley. >> Mayor and council a quorum of the council and the required charter officers are present to conduct the meeting. >> Uh thank you. Thank you Miss Wortha. Um, okay. So, we are going straight into our um section F, correct? We've got a little different agenda structure this today. >> Yes, ma'am. So, um we um we've made some changes, charge and uh public comment, right? Would you like to address those at the beginning of the meeting and then we'll go into our action items? >> Okay. Okay. Forgive me for that. So before we been we begin what we're calling public comment on each individual items, but it it is it is still serving as public comment. Um I just want to provide a little bit of clarity on the processes that or the process that we're going to be using this meeting. So on June 10th, the city council passed a motion moving the general public comment period from noon to 5:30 p.m. to implement the change and meet the requirements of the open meetings act. The following processes have been modified and are being used until further notice. So, if you signed up in advance to speak on an action item on this agenda, I will call you to speak when the council considers that item. Your comments must directly relate to the agenda item you signed up to speak on. You may only speak um on an item if you signed up in advance. Um, if you signed up in advance to speak during the 5:30 p.m. general public comment period, the public comment period is um, it's dedicated to any city related matter that is not on the agenda as an action item and it will operate similarly to the previous noon public comment period. individuals will be called up to speak in the order in which they signed up and of course we'll first hear in person comments followed by as usual virtual uh public comments. Um there is more detailed information if anybody would like to uh look that up at corpus christiTx.org or of course you can contact uh the city secretary's uh office. So, with that said, um I'm going to go ahead and go into our what we typically >> Mayor Mayor Mayor, I have a question about. Okay. Um this is new and I think uh there's uh has been a lot of confusion about the new time and the new process and uh I believe that is part of our agenda item. So I I would like for us to at least entertain that anyone that comes to speak at all today uh can speak. Um I think I had suggested that maybe even making the simple suggestion or request at the end of uh the meeting to say hey if there's anybody else that would like to make a comment please do so. But the other thing I wanted to make sure that that we uh communicated to the public is that that you know anyone should be able to speak on any agenda item whether that's during the uh meeting or at 5:30. That is our first amendment and I would like for us to honor that. Mayor >> um Okay. Well, Councilwoman, we we have, as you know, we have um we have a council or an agenda item further down on the agenda regarding public comment and possible changes. So, I think at that time, would uh make more sense to discuss all of that today. Today's process, which is what I just mentioned, is based on the action that was taken a week ago. So moving forward that can change or not and that's what we'll see you know as as the item as the item comes up this afternoon. So as as I was saying but thank you councilwoman for your your um your thoughts on that. We'll we'll be addressing them um this afternoon. So it will um again if if you signed up in advance to speak during the 5:30m general public comment period um I said it was going to operate similar to Oh actually I already did all that. Okay. So in in all of our meetings, we handle uh significant matters concerning taxpayer dollars, making it imperative that we uphold the highest standards of decorum and adherence to our policies. Our core principles of openness, transparency, and inclusiveness guide our actions, and we aim to achieve them while respecting our city council policy, which has been in place for over 30 years. Public comment serves as one avenue for communication, but it is not the sole method. You can reach out to any of myself or any of your council members by way of phone call, of course, emails, or even scheduling an in-person appointment. And so, with that said, we're going to go ahead and proceed uh with public comment and our agenda, keeping in mind the importance of decorum and adherence to this policy. Uh before I begin, I'd like to ask our city attorney, Miles Rousley, to please uh review the council meeting rules of decorum, which will be displayed on the screens above. >> Yeah. And this will apply to um the agenda action item. So that's why she's reading that. >> Correct. >> All citizens must be courteous, polite, and respectful of one another, including the city council and city staff. The mayor and council members shall be referred to by title and or title surname. All remarks must be addressed to the mayor and city council and not to the council members as individuals. Citizens are only permitted to speak on city related subject matter. Speaking on any non city related matter is prohibited. Loud, boisterous, profane or obscene language or behavior is not allowed. Citizens must refrain from any disturbing noise, demonstration or other act disrupting to the city council business. >> Thank you, Mr. Wristley. Um, so as uh as usual, we will ask if you would please state your name and the city in which you live before beginning your comments. Citizen comments are limited to three minutes while non-resident comments are limited to one minute. A visible time or position near the city secretary's desk will assist in managing the allotted time. Residents of Corpus Christie will be given uh speaking priority over non-residents. And if you have a petition or any relevant information, if you'll please present it to Miss Werta prior to speaking, she'll hand it out to us. So with that, we're going to go ahead and move on into section F. That is our board and committee appointments. We had no signups for this item being it is actionable item. So we have the airport board planning commission and the airport zoning commission. >> Yes ma'am. >> So first the airport board there's one vacancy Mr. Ray signs u exceeded the number of absences allowed. He is requesting that the council reinstate him to the board since he says he is now able to attend meetings. >> Okay. So he would like to be reconsidered for >> reinstated. Yes, ma'am. >> Or I'm sorry reinstated. Okay. Council members, would anybody like to go ahead and read him? >> I'd like to uh nominate Mark Almag. >> Okay. Any other nominations? Okay. We have Mark uh to consider and we will go ahead and start with Councilwoman Vaughn. Oh, yeah. You for the record, Councilman. Well, there's only there's only one um nominee. Is that correct? Are we closing nominations? So, there's one nominee, mayor. >> Well, I'm okay. I was doing that because since he was asking to be reinstated, but that would be I guess a separate action. Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. I guess they're not. So, there's no nomination for Mr. SC. No. Okay. So, >> we have Mr. Al, Mr. Almagar. >> So, uh all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Say no. >> The motion carries. So, next we have the planning commission. Well, actually then the next boards are the planning commission and the airport zoning commission. So, the same members serve on both boards per ordinance and right now there are three vacancies on each. They're the same people. So, Mike Munoz and Trey Telman are seeking reappointment and their attendance rates are in your packets. >> I move for reappoint. >> Okay, great. All in favor? >> Oh, I'm sorry, Councilwoman. Well, >> I wanted to make a nomination. Okay, there's an open slot, Miss Compos. Right now, we're um we're looking at the reappoints. So, there will be uh there is one position that is vacant that we will get to shortly. >> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, we have um a motion to reappoint. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Say no. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. So, now that does leave us with one vacancy to fill uh due to Michael York. He turned out Jason. >> Jason Ednandez. Okay. Okay. Any other nominations? >> James. >> James. Okay. >> Aaron Hitchen. >> Okay. Aaron Councilman. Did you Did you have one? >> Yeah. I Matt uh Ty, I think I pronounced that right. >> Any other nominations? Okay. There's no one. Can I Yeah. Can I just say there's no one that's representing that district that he's representing right now? J7 on this. I mean, even though it's not for he doesn't speak, if if you wish to speak, I think you're the the mayor had asked that you text her and let her know. >> I didn't. No. >> Yes, ma'am. >> No. Why would I need to text her? >> Well, just to so we can put you in order with everyone else. So, I just wanted to let you know >> that way we know when you want to speak. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. Throughout the meeting. >> Yes, ma'am. >> That's typically No, >> you all can't see me. I can't You all can't just see me if I raise my hand, but I want to speak. >> No, we can't see you. >> Well, according to our council policies, we do have um the council members are asked to speak in the order of their electronic request. So, since you are uh by WebEx, the electronic request would be um the the text message. So, so I need to text the mayor as um using the phone so that I can speak. That doesn't seem reasonable. >> That's typically >> and I No, no, but this is the first time that I had to, you know, uh had to do the meeting by WebEx. >> Well, ma'am, we always I'm just saying that that's the council policy. It's that to to maintain order, we have a queuing system. >> Okay, got it. Thanks. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Examples. Okay. So, we have Oh, you go ahead, Miss Wa. The three. >> Okay. So, we have the three. So, who do who did you want to start with on the voting? >> Councilman Von Tiffany >> Teffy. >> Okay. Miss Composant >> Eden. Ty. Okay, Mr. Tffy is appointed and that's he's appointed to both. It's the planning commission and the airport zoning commission for clarity. >> Thank you, Miss Wood. Okay, we'll move on to section H. That is our consent agenda items 2 through 15. Do we have any request from the council members to pull an item for individual considerations? >> Number two. Any other items? Okay. Um, we did not have sign up uh for any public comment on items 2 through 15. So I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda with the exception of item number two. >> Okay. Motion. Yeah. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Say no. >> Miss Compos. Oh, so sorry. >> Did you want to vote on that? >> Okay. Can we see her? >> Can we see? >> There she is. Thank you, ma'am. >> Hi. >> Thank you. Okay. Item number two is the approval of the May 8th uh 2025 workshop meeting minutes. Uh Councilman Paxton, >> you want to flip that? >> Thank you, Mayor. I believe um this item actually has three. It's the May 8th, June 17, June 24. And um I would like to revisit the minutes for the June 17 agenda or meeting item number 33. I'd like to u make a clarification and modification to the final sentence as they are recorded. Uh presently it says and comments and discussion can be limited to hold more effective meetings. I don't believe that reflected the discussion on that item very accurately. I think the I think that the um general consensus was more um council member discussion could be more intentional. Um however, the discussions at consideration of this item did not reference comments and discussions being limited regarding the public. So I wanted to make a clarification to that item that that wasn't the intention or the directive. Thank you. without approval. >> Are there any objections to that or >> No. Okay. So, can you provide that wording? That was kind of So, we we need the actual wording and um we can uh take care of that. The revision would be Mayor and council comments and discussion be mindful of intentionality to hold effect more effective meetings. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. And then we'll strike that last sentence. Correct. And replace it with that one. >> Yes, please. >> Got it. Thank you. >> Okay. >> With that, I make a motion to approve all with the amendments to the June 17. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay, we have a motion. >> We have a second. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Any opposing? No. The motion carries. Okay, that will take us to section J. That is our public hearings items 16 through 18. Item number 16 um is an ordinance abandoning, vacating, and closing 2.5193 acres of improved and unimproved public right of way. waiting for my PowerPoint. >> Sure. Okay. All right. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council Lagar, inter assistant city manager, public works director. Today, I will uh be presenting a first reading ordinance to consider a request from the Port of Corpus Christi to permanent permanently close improved and unimproved streets in District 1. Uh I understand that representatives uh from the Port of Corpus Christi are present today in our audience. Uh the reason for their request is to utilize the closed rights away in their overall plan for a layown yard to facilitate their operations. Uh the procedures and process uh process to close, abandon, vacate or alter city rideway is outlined in city ordinance section 49.12. An applicant is required to submit a written application to the department of public works. The public works department works in conjunction with the internal and external stakeholders to determine existing and proposed use. This information is used to provide a recommendation to council for action. Um before I get into the details of the request, I would like to present some background for context. In 2015, the city entered into a fourparty agreement with Texot, the Port of Corpus Christi, and Corpus Christi Housing Authority. Uh the terms of the agreement state states the city may close streets petitioned by the Porter Corpus Christi. It also states the city agrees to forfeit collection of the fair market value. As part of the street closure process, public works schedules a pre-application meeting to understand the request and provide requirements for submittal to the applicant. The city and poor uh meet to discuss the request prior to the official application submission uh in January 2025 for 10 streets and then they also provided a certified appraisal. uh the public works uh coordinated comments from both internal and external stakeholders to determine stakeholder interests in the rightway. All right. So, I'm going to provide a couple of slides uh showing um the lay of the land for the request in the area and to give you um some some benchmarks for um some of the key locations for this request. So this is an overview of the area analyzed for the street closure request. The area study uh the area of study shows the Hillrest area shaded in green uh to your left there. Um and the Washington Kohl's area shaded in purple to the right with the new and old harbor bridges shown in light blue and orange uh respectively. A key point to focus are those three uh white circles along the new harbor bridge. They show main, east, and west connectivity uh right there for the Hill Crest and the Washington Kohl's neighborhoods. And the streets from the top uh down. So the top circle there uh it's not it's not um labeled, but I'll show you in the next slide uh with the names of the streets, but the top circle there is East uh Port Avenue. The middle circle there is um West Broadway Street and the one on the bottom is Lake Street. Okay. So, the purpose of this slide is to demonstrate the location of all 10 requested street closures which are highlighted in red requested by the Port of Corpus Christi. These 10 streets include West Broadway, Hatch, Washington, Williams Avenue, Summer, John Dempsey Newasis uh Prior Avenue, and Coke Street. Also demonstrated on this slide are the proposed park improvements highlighted in orange and property owned by the port at the time of application uh to the city highlighted in blue. We also have we also demonstrated streets that are currently open to the public which provide connectivity between the Hillrest and Washington Kohl's neighborhood neighborhoods and also to major corridors such as Port Avenue and the state frontage roads. It is noted that the segment of West Broadway Street requested for closure has been closed for several years in conjunction with the Harbor Bridge project. However, West Broadway still serves as the only through street that can provide east west connectivity from the state frontage road to Newasis Bay Boulevard. We have magnified this connectivity to the state intersection on the next slide for reference. So, you see that that square off to the right where it says slide six. This next slide will show you the um uh scenario uh after the the Harbor Bridge is is removed, the old Harbor Bridge. So this slide demonstrates the connectivity from north Tonka to IH37 as identified on the construction maps on the Harper Bridge project website. Highlighted in red is the old Harbor Bridge and southbound exit and entrance ramps that will be removed. North Tonkawa will be extended to intersect with IH37. This connections will allow not a will allow access not only to the sea district but also allow access to west Broadway to provide connectivity to Hillrest and Washington Kohl's neighborhoods from downtown. This slide summarizes staff recommendations. Staff supports closures of the nine street rightsway identified on this slide. The closure of West Broadway Street is not part of the recommendations. staff supports to maintain West Broadway as a through street uh in this network. In summary, staff recommends the approval of nine improved and unimproved public rideway segments identified in the ordinance and the ordinance is included in the package. Uh that concludes my report and I stand by for any questions. Okay. Councilman Scott. >> Oh god. Hey. So, is there going to be traffic light at Tonkawa and 37? Is that the plan? >> Uh, right now sir, that that plan hasn't been designed yet, just the overall schematic. Um, the operations will be addressed at the time of design and that will be by uh by text >> in conjunction with the city. So, we don't know yet. >> Okay. And then tell me again about Tonkawa. I mean uh West Broadway as a through street. What is staff recommendation >> to to not close that street as requested uh by the Port of Corpus Christi to provide that connectivity east to west connectivity between those two neighborhoods. >> Got it. Thank you sir. >> Yes sir. >> Okay. Thank you Ernie. I don't see any other questions or lights on um on this particular item. >> Hello. I raising my hand. There's no Okay. I don't have >> I'd like to speak. I'd like to speak, please. >> Yes. So, Councilwoman, that's fine. Um, but if you'll please, just so that way we have some, you know, >> that is very difficult to do. And I don't recall Councilman Scott being told the same thing. >> No, he was. >> If I Okay, let me just go. >> Well, he was he did send me text messages during the meeting, but that's neither here or there. That's typically how it works when someone's not here. Councilwoman Compos, if nobody, you know, advised you of that, I apologize for that. Um, but go ahead and and and >> Okay, go ahead. >> Well, uh, the, you know, we sort of just, uh, scanned over the fourpart agreement. Um, I believe that is 42 pages long. And um I remember reading at least some of it, you know, talks about beautifying the area. I don't see any of our partners beautifying the area as part of the four-part agreement. The other um you know things that I'd like to make sure that that the city knows is that people still live there. It is still considered a neighborhood or neighborhoods. Uh we were able to go around the neighborhood last week. The new Harbor Bridge, the entrance, even just the entrance to go across the Harbor Bridge is being impeded by even more heavy industry. So this is only going to make things worse, I believe. Uh we're also I I I believe in another um agenda item. We're going to be placing finally a fence along the Bay View Cemetery which is the oldest cemetery in our city. So again, I think you know uh we continue to you know degrade this this beautiful neighborhood and and you are making them feel as if they don't matter, as if they don't count. They are the ones that live there, that started there, and we need to honor them. So, I of course will not be supporting this and I hope some of my other uh city council members agree, but again, um they just want to live in peace and this is not going to be peaceful. As a matter of fact, they keep making it worse and worse and worse. So, no. Uh I will not be supporting this. >> Okay. Councilwoman Vaugh, >> can you tell me how you came to the decision? How it's going to impact the neighborhood? I was over there today driving around and there's a lot of some dead ends, go straight down to the port, all that. So, how is this going to impact leaving Broadway? Does that give them enough access into there and in and out? >> Correct. Yes, ma'am. Um so if you look at the highlevel um screenshot here uh public works only analyzes uh the information in front of us. So for example uh you know we'll we can take uh existing development. We can take existing access points and then make recommendations based on those existing uh networks that are in place. I cannot predict uh what will happen in 20 years as far as traffic flows. I cannot predict what's going to be developed, you know, in the future and how that will impact decisions today. Um, and so, uh, our our discussion here is that, uh, the council and and and probably to be discussed for future UTP action, uh, is council and mayor, you're you're entitled to the master plan. And so what that means is that, uh, a master plan was developed. you know, street networks are there in place with certain capacities and uh when those are affected or adjusted, you transfer that risk to the city when you uh give away, you know, that adjustment or that amendment. Uh public works will only analyze u basically from a almost anecdotal point of view, access points, um you know, uh ingress ingress to certain developments and then make decisions based on on that information. But there's not a full-blown uh traffic analysis that takes place where we know exactly how much volumes in every single road and uh what's going to be impacted specifically. That analysis has not taken place nor I believe it could take place because we don't know what's coming. >> Well, I'm just concerned about them getting in and out. Want to make sure they have access in and out on how they're operate from day to day. That's my concern. And if we if we were to approve all of these street closures and we see that there's an impact on the residents, can we come back and change that? >> Uh I so yes, the answer is you can amend the uh UTP, but usually that comes as a request from a developer. Um I've never seen it go in the other direction unless we amend the master plan like we did when we did impact. >> Well, there's a lot of first up here, so you never know. Right. >> Right. Yes, ma'am. So, I just I'm just worried about the residents. I want to make sure that they can get in and out of that neighborhood. >> Right. >> And Broadway, is that the main area that they drive on? >> So, we have uh West Broadway. Um you also have Eastport Avenue that goes up and down here along uh >> that's still open. >> Yes. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Good. >> Yeah. So, your major corridors with our recommendation will stay open. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Councilman Hernandez. Thank you, mayor. Um, you know, I took the opportunity to meet with some folks in the in the area with regards to some of these street closures, and some of these are small dead-end streets that, you know, were affected by the by the bridge. The only one I had concern about from the request was Broadway. I felt it was a a connectivity thing. And since you did remove that from your recommendation in terms of giving up that right away, I'm okay with what's left. I mean, nois is like, you know, hop, skip, and a jump from Wnebago. So, I'm not really sure that that's really necessary, but all the other ones just kind of dead end and there's really no um requirement for them. So, um I'm going to go forward and and vote yes on this because if Broadway wasn't was still a part of this, I would have voted no. >> But, uh I think that connectivity between Washington Kohl's and Hillrest needs to be there. So, um I'm good with with how it's presented. >> Thank you, Councilman. Uh Councilman Roy. >> Uh thank you. Thanks for your presentation. Um if we go back to the slide please. >> So, I just want to make sure that I understand and I think it's um so everything in blue is currently port property right now. Correct. >> Yes, sir. And so the only other one and I and I agree with council member uh Hernandez that if we're keeping Broadway open that's the recommendation. I concur with that. Um but I was going to ask and he made comment on Newasis Street. Um but you don't think if in terms of closing Newasis that it will have an impact as far as being able to what's the alternative route? I want to make sure I understand that. Winnebago Winnebago Street there at the that bottom underneath New Light green and then that provides the port um pretty much continuous use of their land um for a lay down yard. >> And um could you go to the uh I also want to go back and take a look at the subsection that you showed once the bridge comes down how it would look >> right there sir. >> Yes sir. So all the red lines get removed after the project and then the green remains and the blue remains. >> Okay. And so um good. I think that that clarifies what I was looking at. And I also again I support this especially with the fact that your recommendation is to keep Broadway open. So thank you. >> Yes sir. >> Okay Ernie. I think that's all the questions and comments we have. >> With that, like I'd like to make a motion uh to approve. >> Okay. And I'd also just like to make it known for the record that there was no public >> Oh, mayor. We just we do we do have one. >> Oh, okay. >> My apologies. We do have one. >> Who is it? >> Mr. Klein. It's Jim Klene. >> Okay. >> He did sign up. >> Mr. Klein. Mayor, members of the council, thank you for taking time to listen to me. My name is Jim Klene. Uh, I live in District 2 here in Corpus Christi. I have concerns about this. I have concerns about neighbors access to these roads. I also have concerns about some roads that have already been closed that have kept some neighbors from accessing current properties. I think that needs to be addressed as well. also have concerns that the idea of creating this uh closing these roads in order to create uh a layown yard would infringe upon or encroach upon the idea of a buffer zone between existing industries and existing neighborhoods up there. So I have concerns about that as well. I also have concerns about how this will impact evacuation routes uh following during or following uh man-made andor natural disasters. And so I would ask you to consider those those concerns as well. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. line. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and close public. Oh, Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I would start with echoing the concerns for Broadway because that was my concern on the item and and I see um our a representative here from the port. Thank you for being present today. Um, when we had a presentation that was a concern was those kind of main roads uh much to what Dr. Klein was just referencing uh access to evacuating the area if necessary. If we go back to that map, however, um Ernie, if I'm not mistaken, what what was already clarified, that land that's in blue, >> I I put it up on the screen, ma'am. >> Thank you. the land in the blue color. What I'm seeing is this closure is all in that that conglomerate. So, it looks like keeping Broadway open, keep basically the city's recommendation allows for those larger areas, uh, larger roads to be able to access this area. That's a big that that's a relief. I I I echo those sentiments. Um, another concern that was just brought up that I do think is relevant here. Um, and I and perhaps our partner from the port can speak to that is they did talk about incorporating still not not a buffer as in a simply empty lot, but they're talking about design and things like that because for me it is very important that we listen to the community that's there. We acknowledge them. we we work together with them and and do as much as we possibly can in all responsibility to take care of their needs, acknowledge them, but also recognize the area and the players that are there. So, um wanted to clarify that's this is that area they're talking about building, >> correct? Yes, ma'am. The blue the blue area >> that's going to be in their designs. They're going to do some kind of a buffer between what is this light industry type. >> Uh I I can't speak to buffers. I mean, they can they can speak to that. He's here right now perhaps and and if forgive me I had meant to bring this up at a later but it was brought up on this item specifically so I wanted to address it. >> Happy to address the concern. So good afternoon mayor council um if I may. So we actually own all the property that's north of Broadway as well. So originally when we asked for the closure of Broadway, it's because when you look at the terrain between north of Winnebago and to Broadway, there's significant elevation changes, right? So in order for us to make it usable for development, that's why we asked for the closure so we could make it one stabilized area to address all the contours within the the ground elevations. So we're okay with the uh staff's recommendation. You know, our only issue was we wish we wish we would have known sooner. We just found out about it on a Friday because when we initially had our kickoff meeting back in September, you know, we threw options on the table as far as, you know, if it was if there was a need for Broadway to remain, we could have developed an alternate route to the north, right? Just to maintain that that connectivity. Um, so I mean in essence, I mean, we're okay with the staff recommendation and our goal, I guess long term, and I guess we will address this in the zoning is to develop a uh a noise and sound barrier along the north side of Winnebago to separate the parks from the layown space. So, similar to what you would see off I37, you know, a heavy concrete wall. >> That's that was what I was confirming because it was brought up here. So, thank you for speaking to that maps if you need some additional information as well. So, >> okay. Thank you so much. I'm >> okay. Sorry. Okay. Well, now you're on. Okay. Thank you. Um Okay. So, we're going to I'll go ahead and entertain a motion to approve the ordinance. >> I already made a motion. >> Did you Did we have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. We have a second. Please submit your vote. >> Mayor, I text Compos. Okay. Miss Compos. >> Yes. >> Miss Compos has a I'm sorry, Miss Compos. Do you have a a comment? >> What's your vote, please? >> No, no, she had a comment before. >> I Okay, thank you. All right. Um, you know, there there has been um sacrifices from the Hill Press. I mean they the port authority and you know uh has continued to say you know this is the buffer zone and then it gets moved and then they say okay well this is now the buffer zone and again it gets moved. So this continuation of infringing on that neighborhood when is it going to stop if we don't stop that zoning now. That's why this is so important for for the people that live there. So again, you know, the other thing that someone else brought up is every time that the poor decides to buy that property, it's one less taxpayer that is going to add to our tax basis. So, you know, we need to think about that. You know, people do actually want to continue to thrive there and to build there. So, just please keep that in mind before you vote. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. Okay. Please submit your vote. >> And Miss Compos, how are you voting on that please? >> No. No. >> No. Okay. Thank you. >> No. >> Okay. The motion carries. Ernie, thank you. Item number 17 is zoning case number ZN8534, Port of Corpus Christi Authority. Good afternoon, Mayor, council. Uh, first of two zoning cases for the port. Um, presentation is loading. >> All right. Uh, Mike Dice, the director of development services. Before you is case ZN8534. The applicant is the Port Authority of Corpus Christi. Uh the location is on Lexington. Uh we have for the record 902 Lexington. The property is in D1 with a reszone request from RS6 to Light Industrial IL. The subject property is 1.52 acres. Purpose of the request is to allow light industrial uses. Uh particularly expanding the use from the uh east to the west that is port property. Uh that's their addition uh operational activities. Property is part of the downtown area development plan which was adopted in 2018 and the subject parcel is zoned RS6. To the north there's vacant lowdensity residential RS6 and light industrial. To the south is right-of-way commercial zoned IL. To the east is light industrial zoned ILIL and to the west is vacant low density residential and a mix. 19 notices were mailed inside the required 200 uh foot buffer with zero outside. Zero were received in opposition and zero in favor. Staff reviewed the subject property's background information and concluded while inconsistent with the future land use map. The proposed reszoning is generally consistent with the city of Corpus Christi comprehensive plan and downtown ADP. The proposed reszoning is compatible with the present zoning and conforming uses of nearby property and will have no adverse impact upon the surrounding neighborhood. Subject property is suitable for the uses permitted by the zoning district that would be applied for the proposed amendment. Planning Commission and staff recommend approval of the RS6 to IIL district. And I stand by for any questions. Thank you. Uh we do have I'm going to go ahead and open public comment. I don't see any questions or comments from the staff. We I'm sorry from council. We have two public commenters. We have Carrie Meyer. Is Carrie here today? Okay, we have Jim C. James Klene, Mr. Klein. >> Thank you again. My name is Jim Klein. I live in District 2 here in Corpus Christi. And I would just reiterate what I mentioned in the last agenda item. I still have concerns about this, about uh access the neighbors have to existing properties up there, their own properties, being able to access those because of some of these road closures. I have concerns about evacuation during a disaster during or following a man-made or natural disaster. I have concerns about the encroachment upon the buffer zone. Uh the issues are still there yet. So, thank you. >> Thank Thank you, Mr. Klein. >> And again, Carrie Meyer is not with us today. >> Okay. Counciloman Compos, you have a comment? Uh yes. Okay. Well um the reason that I there was no opposition is the way that this um proposal request was done. It intentionally left out the biggest um representation of that neighborhood which is the church there. you the the city actually worked around it and uh you know this is how I guess uh you know people or not people but entities get what they want is that you know we bend rules for them. So again, there is definitely opposition uh on this subject matter and I know that because of the change of the public comment um they were not able to voice their opposition, but I can tell you that, you know, uh every time that the court continues to uh get one of those properties, it's one less property or taxes that are actually brought into our our tax base because as you know the portica corpus Christi does not pay taxes. So there you go. Uh here we are saying that we're business but then again when it comes to business we're not when it comes to the Hillrest community. So no I'm not supporting this as well. >> Thank you Miss Gmples. Councilman Hernandez. real quick. Um, just for reference point, the port is looking to use this as a layown yard, but from what I'm understanding, it's for the military uh uses. >> Next, that's the next case. >> That's the next case. >> Yeah, this this if if you are familiar with port and 37, there was a I forget what was there before. It was a >> transmission or some some sort of shop there. They purchased that as long as well as the properties behind it. So what they're doing is they're having that that shop area and that that more undeveloped area expand over to the left allowing the same use on both of their properties. >> Okay. So what why is it needed for light industrial >> to the if we can >> this can what their usage be done by commercial? >> Well what they already have is a light industrial which is the adjacent I understand that. So they're trying to expand to make sure that the whole property has the same use. Okay. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. I think I see kind of, unless I'm totally off, but I think I see what he's saying because if you go back to the the presentation on item 16, it gives the map with all the colors and there's orange boxes for the park improvements. >> Correct. And and that will be addressed in the next zoning case. It's over the one that we're uh referencing now in number 17, right? Is on the other side of Port Street. >> Yes. This is on the the west side, >> Lexington. >> Mhm. And so, um, what it appears is right behind it is light industrial, >> but they're separated by a road. And then immediately behind that is where we're going to develop for park. >> No, that's a different property. that prop the park property is further to the east. This zoning is further to the west. It's basically to the west of Port and 37. Uh if you look at the what's on the screen now, you'll see the area that's not shaded to the right. That is an old transmission shop. The port had purchased that as well as they owned those uh old lots. What they're trying to do is combine that into one zoning of Iel. It's already zoned to the east. They want to expand that zoning to the west. So >> when we talk about the lay down yard and the other roads that's in the next zoning >> where you have the red shading that's the subject property before us presently >> correct >> the half behind it you said is already >> zoned I >> is already I then we have Port Street >> correct >> um Avenue excuse me and then we have what according to this packet is in the purple which I assume is already IIL >> I it's IH across the street it's heavy industrial across >> that's heavy so right behind that there's a little I don't know if that's a street or not based on this image. >> Uh I believe it's rightway >> and then it appears that tiny little corner that's left in this presentation as per the presentation on item 16 that begins the park. >> Correct. >> So these are like tiny little hairline properties essentially that are going to back up to the to the park. >> Well, they don't back up. Again, I want to be clear they don't back up to the park. there there are several roads and rightways in between. The next zoning case has the property that's adjacent to the park. >> Okay. So, um I I think when he said those things, I kind of organized what my next thought was was if we have this park that we're investing in because we want to memorialize, we want to recognize this area. It's been something promised from way back. We want to invest in this and now we have these industrial zoned items right next to the park. >> Yeah. Currently, there's already heavy industrial next to the park. >> So, um, my conversations with the port is that they're very cognizant of what the planning is for this area, but you know, to the to the thought process with the public because that's I think sometimes we play mediator. How do we make both sides work? Like what Councilman Hernandez says, could the plan for this be done with commercial so it's not park industry, heavy industry, light industry, all kind of incession? >> Yeah, I would I would have to have the applicant uh make clear what they plan on doing, whether or not that would be compatible. >> Are you able to speak on that? >> Yes. >> I have some better maps if needed that show a bigger footprint of the area. I think it tells a better story. So, >> we have a we have a more intense map. >> Yeah. >> Um, so our our intent is to build a maintenance facility. >> I'm sorry. >> Our intent is to build a maintenance facility on that property. So, we did require it used to be the Herz rental equipment company on the corner. So, in essence, what we're asking to do is just move the fence line to the next block over. So, we have one contiguous land use to do a new maintenance facility, but also within that facility, they will do fabrication, those types of things, open storage. So for a maintenance facility >> for uh a commercial use I think it would need to be under the IIL designation. >> Are we able to to to determine that definitively because I know we have a lot of shops maintenance shops and and most of that I would think it it may it may qualify. >> Sir, can you state your name for the record? The the applicant I'm sorry we didn't >> Oh Sam Esql sorry director of real estate for the port Christie. >> Thank you very much. So again, machine shops and and things of that nature are typically in the IL zone and that's that's the reason for the request. >> Does that mean they are not permissible under commercial? >> Correct. Are you done? >> They could do a commercial with a SP, a special permit, >> special permit >> to allow specific >> uh options, but again, the way that it's described and what they need to do for the existing property and expand that uh to the west, that's the best option is to have it as IIL. If they have it ILIL and then you did commiss um commercial with a special permit ILIL type thing, but it's still zoned as commercial, could they then do the same project on both sides? Like >> the special the special permit would have to be specific on exactly what is allowed, >> but it but ostensibly it would it would create the same >> it's an option to to get through the same >> requirement. That answered my questions. Thank you, >> Councilman Hernandez. Okay. The property across the street from Lexington. There is there still a home or homes on that side of the street? >> There is one home on that side of the street. >> Is anybody living there? >> Uh, I believe so. >> Okay. So, these were all RS6 obviously and uh so they're I guess they were these bought out as part of the the uh the bridge deal. >> Was a combination of program acquisitions and port acquisition separately. >> Okay. >> Because there is RS6 zoned on the other side, it makes it very difficult to put a light industrial thing right right next to it. So, what is it that you do are going to mitigate that or put a buffer? I mean, it's I understand there's a street there, but I mean, you have residential zoned area right next to light industrial. Is that our normal process? Well, in this area, you'll notice uh to the north, and I may be stealing your thunder, to the north of Nixon, that's light industrial across from R six. >> I I get it. I don't know how that happened. >> Yeah. >> Is that our normal process that we would normally allow our light industrial next to a residential area? >> Michael, can you speak into the microphone please? >> Sorry, my apologies. It can happen with the buffer of a street. Having that rideway buffer does allow for IIEL to be in close proximity. And if I if I may, if you look at the map, you could see that residential was already adjacent to IIEL. >> I I understand that. I don't know how that happened. It's not normal process for us to I mean, I would never agree to that in my district. You you understand what I'm saying? I I I I could not be in good conscience put somebody's house next to a light industrial area. And so I had a hard time with this. That's why I asked if this could be commercial. Um I I don't know what your uses of it for it, but it's you know I don't but then then when you put in the zoning I can't downzone you afterwards, right? So putting it right next to to residential areas is troublesome for me and I'm having some some concerns about it because there is somebody that lives there, >> right? And regardless of you know who it may be, I'm I'm not going to put them in that position. So, and it's not like you're, you know, I don't know what your plans are, but what is that going to be 10 years from now? >> So, our intent is to build a maintenance facility. So, you'll just see additional warehouse buildings within that footprint. >> Okay. So, my concern is, like I said, RS6 right across the street. I don't know if there's going to be any redevelopment. Do you own the property across the street? >> No, we everything but that one property. >> Wow. Um, okay. Thank you, >> Councilman Roy. Um can you tell me uh sir what is the uh the distance in terms I'm trying to get a handle on what is the distance of that residential property the one property that's remaining um and where you're planning on putting the maintenance building is you're saying is it across the street so is it kind of give me an idea of >> Yes. So, the one probably we don't own is right across the street. It's probably the >> When you say across the street, explain that. >> It's across the street on the west side of Lexington. >> And it's the third lot of off of 37. >> Okay. And so, would you estimate how many feet is that from where you would build this? >> And the width, the width of the street, say 35 ft. >> 35 ft. So, you would put a maintenance facility 35 ft within this residential. >> We would put a Yes. a ma a metal building within that general footprint. >> General >> there is a required setback for IIL for the building and that would be uh as part of the zoning when it comes in for any type of review they would need to have that set back. But >> what is that? What's the distance? >> 20T. >> So 20T >> 20T from the property line. So it' be 20 feet plus the roadway which is approximately 28 curb to curb. So let's just say based on the fact that the other we you've made it clear that the other area is industrial or light industrial already. Do do you have a time frame in terms of when that was changed? >> Oh >> I don't Most of the corridor was reszoned back in the 70s. I don't have the exact dates of that. based on the other property that you own adjacent to that area. If you um had the ability to move your proposed maintenance uh facility from the location of that um could you move it further away from the existing structure, the single family residence? >> Yes. I mean, at this point, it's solely a conceptual design. >> Say that again. At this point, it's solely a conceptual design. So, we have room and time to move. >> So, you could move it. >> Yes, >> you could move it further away. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Councilman Betta. >> U Mr. Eskeville, >> sir. >> Um, put the map back up, will you? So, that property owner, I'm sure they were offered an an opportunity to >> Yes. It's actually a rental property and they're asking $300,000 for the property. So, >> Okay. But in the original buyout, they refused and >> Yes. >> So they've offered they have offered to sell the property. >> Yes. >> Okay. And and what's the property appraised at? >> I think currently on the tax ro it's probably about $70 $80,000 >> and they're asking $300,000 for it. >> Okay. All right. Thank you very much. >> Councilman Roy, >> I'm sorry. Um, you might as well just stay up here for a moment. I I I wait until you get right to your seat and then call you back up. >> I need the exercise. >> My question is if if you could build your maintenance facility, let's just say 100 ft. I don't know necessarily what the appropriate I'm trying to determine um away from that residential you that residential structure that single family residence right now you could possibly do that then you have that option because you own if if you buy the land but we do the setback further from that single family residence so you understand what I'm saying what's what's the norm in terms of uh how far ideally you want to be able to have a a light industrial structure from a resident. >> Well, again, the the setback from the property line is 20 ft. In addition to that, there is the ride ofway setback that's there. So, we would we would encourage uh the property owner to to build whatever is best for their need, but also incorporate uh the concerns that you're bringing up as well. So technically it's 20 ft from the property line. >> So if if you do a a special um in this particular case, can you can we set it back further? Can we put something in there that would set it back further? >> The the conditions would be up to the council for the special project. >> Okay. >> You know, if I may make a suggestion, you're talking out loud. >> Yeah. >> We would be okay waiting on construction until that last parcel is gone. Say that again. >> We'd be okay waiting on construction until that last property owner is gone. >> So you'd be willing to have a provision in there that states that you won't build until that last >> Yes. I mean we still have engineering to go through. There's a lot of things that need to occur. I mean and it we are government entity as well. So it takes us a while to go through our procurement process to get things in place. So we have time. >> So how do you know when that last structure is going to be gone? >> We don't know. But this process also takes time as well to come to the zoning. You don't have to come back again. So, I rather just have the caveat to where we can do it once this particular property owner, you know, is gone. >> And and I just want to clarify when we talk about time frame, if we go with an SP, >> yeah, >> that has a six-month time frame per the UDC. So, they have to do something within six months. You know, I wouldn't personally have a problem that if you put that provision in there that you wouldn't build until that last because I think that's the issue. I think that's the issue with council member Hernandez and the other council members. I I wouldn't have a problem if you put that provision in there and didn't build as long as that single family residence was there. >> I'm okay with that if we if you know I make a motion if we could amend that. Miles, do we have a >> Sounds a bit like contract zoning to me, which >> Miles, we can hear you. >> Yeah, that's that sounds like you're suggesting some type of contract zoning, which isn't really permitted. >> What did he say? >> What did you say? Can you repeat yourself? Sorry. it just putting that condition on the zone on a reszoning generally would not be permitted that because that would sounds like contract zoning >> the the don't build don't build until the adjacent house is torn down that that I don't think that would be a legal provision >> miles what would be the best way to accomplish this then >> you would if if you're trying to achieve what you want you would I guess kind of going you you would be doing a maybe I've seen this something like this done as an SP um special as as a condition of an S SP maybe commercial but with an SP designation. So once you give it an IIL they can they can do whatever they want. >> So you're saying we can do that under an SP? >> Yeah. Right. Sounds like >> yes, SP accommodates those types of special conditions. You can't just add a special condition to an IIL zoning to a regular zoning. >> And then what happens after 6 months under that provision under the SP >> I think what's being explained is normally under six normally you look at what's being done within the first six months under SP but I'll let >> So basically the SP requires that execution happens within 6 months. uh that's there to make sure that there's not um uh people reszoning things just to kind of squat properties. So that six-month timeline is there. Now, if something were to not be done in that six months, it expires and then you have to start the whole process over again. >> You can't extend it. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Let me get Yeah. Some uh Councilwoman Compos, do you have a comment question? valuation of that that I heard that the property is valued at uh 70,000 and he's asking for 300,000 but I that has been the whole process of when the port decided to do these buyouts is that um the people that were living there never received received a um an amount that they could say that they can't afford another house to be built in another part of the city because their houses uh you know lost value because of of that of the industry that you know continues to you know just not let them breathe, not let them live. So, you know, uh for me, I you know, I I I I would understand completely why that one person uh would not want to sell unless, you know, he gets uh what he thinks he should or she uh owes. But back to the concept it like I say you know here we are discussing these items at this time 12:47 um and I believe I mean most of you knew that the presidents of Hill have been working on this trying to get their voices heard but now it's been squashed because they're not going to be able to make public comment until 5:30. So again, this is uh re really impeding the rights of these um these neighbors. And again, I'm I'm appalled. I can't believe y'all are actually doing this. But you know what? The city is the whole city can see how awful y'all are being. That's all I have to say. That's the only person speaking truth here. >> Thank you, Miss Compos. Uh Councilman Vaughn, >> can I ask you a question now? I know there are some businesses up down that road. Um, and you probably can't tell me this. Are there any negotiations with the owner of that house now? >> Ongoing, if you can tell it. >> The reason I'm asking you is is the owner doesn't live there. They're renting it. >> Correct. >> So, >> so there's not an ongoing conversation. No. >> Okay. And I would say we're not being awful. You know, this has been on the agenda. Anybody can text us, call us. Our phones are out there. You can call us anytime. And so I don't think we're being awful here. So, well, I'm not going to talk to you. I can't talk to the audience. I don't think we're being awful, Councilman Compost. We're trying to make a good decision for the people at Hillrest and the port. So, and I want to make sure I do that because I don't want to harm anybody, but um I just think we need to be careful what we say. Anyway, thank you. That's what I was going to ask you, >> Councilwoman Paxton. Thank you, Mayor. Um, it sounds to me like there there's some wiggle room, there is some creative interpretations if we if we were to zone with an SP, if I'm hearing that right. Um, if we kind of taking the thoughts that we heard from council member Hernandez, this the thoughts we just heard from council member Roy, if we did like a commercial with an SP, would we have parameters in there to talk about like a 200 foot um, setback or something like that to keep into mind the residents? because I do I I do think we're trying to come up with a solution that recognizes and works with the the group from Hillrest and and and we just want to get our minds around all the options. >> So yes, SPS do allow for certain conditions to be in place as part of the zoning. What normally it's used for is in uh kind of a a proposal that doesn't necessarily meet all of one item or all of one uh type of zone, but they need one key aspect. Uh contractors for contractor um like an electrical contractor may use this for a commercial property they bought, but they need vehicle storage. Vehicle storage is not allowed in the commercial zone. So, they'll do a commercial with an SP for vehicle storage. So, it could be done. there could be conditions. Uh again, 200 ft is actually probably deeper than that red area. Uh so it would be outside of the existing uh lot area, but that has that, as you said, flexibility. >> And then um thank you for that clarification to the generous thought provided by our partner here from the port. um as far as not building until we're able to either, you know, come to an agreement with that individual single family dwelling or something like that. Perhaps what it sounds like, and I'm not necessarily advocating for this, but maybe that's if that is something the port's interested in doing, maybe they withdraw this request until that's settled and then come back to us at that time. if that property has moved, if that property hasn't, maybe we look at a, you know, maybe they they move on and now we have this wider area where we're not so close to single family. Um, something like that. So, that sounds like that's an option to just kind of withdraw this request for the time being under that provision and that consideration. I'll say that that's a consideration. Uh, but that's that's an option that looks like to me is here. >> That is up to the applicant. >> Sure. Sure. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Councilman Scott. >> So you Sam, come on up. Come on down. Price is right. So you you own all the other lots except that one, y'all. The port owns all the lots except the one house. >> Yes. >> And then you own all the lot, the big lot across the street. I thought there was some conversation when we when you briefed us that there would be a a barrier like a wall >> that's on the east side of Port Avenue. But it would seem to me if if if the issue is uh the relationship with that u that house that you put up a wall and take it down when you own that last track. I mean that that was my thought is that you allow to move forward with what you do but you provide a buffer to the the house across the street. You acquire the house across the street. There's no need about the need of the buffer and that you remove the buffer. I don't know if that's I I get I get where you're at, by the way. You own everything, but you know, one one house was part of the program. That's that's their choice. Um but you're trying to move forward. I just didn't know if the buffer or the wall, I don't know what you call it, provides a resolution to this issue. >> Yeah. >> If it doesn't, that's fine. >> Yeah. I'm not sure. I mean, the cost to build something substantial like that would probably be equivalent just buying the property. >> Is that right? >> So, >> all right. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman, and thank you, Mr. Eskeel. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and close uh public hearing and entertain a motion to approve uh the ordinance unless we were going to Were you going to make a change? >> No, >> you'll leave it alone. >> Okay, >> we have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Okay, we have a second. Please submit your vote. >> I'm sorry. We have >> about public comment. >> 17. We already had it. Are we on item 17? >> We're on item 17. Yeah, we did. We had two people on on public comment. >> I mean, we heard from the two people that signed up on public comment. >> No, that was 17. We had uh Carrie Myers, who wasn't here, and James Klein. >> That's for >> ma'am. That is for 17. We heard James Klene and I called for Carrie Meyers. two people signed up uh for public comment on this item. >> So, we don't matter. >> So, so you know what? I'm going to I'm going to reiterate. So, changes were made and and Miss Gmples made a comment about how it it is unfair that somebody that people don't get to comment at noon. The majority of this council, the great majority of this council voted to move public comment. That's what I had explained earlier. Now, that wasn't supported by nine people, but that was supported by the the the the grand majority. Um, and that means that public comment, you must sign up for the item which you want to speak on, you have from 8:00 a.m. yesterday to 10:30 a.m. today. And then we call you on the item. And then at 5:30, if you want to speak on something city related but not on the agenda, that is when you speak. But again, this is something that was voted on and that's what we're following today. Later on later, >> I know, but Miss Miss Luna, >> Miss Luna, I have spoken with Rebecca, if you want to reiterate, this is what we're doing based on what was passed. Well, later on in >> ma'am, later on in the agenda, we're going to be discussing uh the public comment procedures. So, um >> there's another item, right? Or >> yes, >> multiple items. I'm sorry. >> I went to sign up and it only had one thing. The usual thing that it had, it didn't have action items in there. >> So, Miss say on this one, >> there's two there's two signups. Um, Miss Sana, one of the signups is for agenda action items and that would have had it >> possibly on the one that you used was the the general public comment one at 5:30 because that one doesn't have items on it. >> Yeah, but it didn't have it for people to sign up. >> Okay. Miss Weta, would you maybe have a conversation because we do need clarity for for for Miss Luna and that way we can move on or you can have one of your staffers do that. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, can you please Did we >> No, there's already a motion. We already voted actually. >> Well, what is this here? >> Okay. So, we have a motion and and a second on the floor to approve. >> This is the old one. Well, I've got something on my screen here. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. So, we have a motion >> to approve it as proposed. >> I got a motion to take away. >> Turn on your I'm sorry. Hold on. >> I got two questions. Can we can we move the public comment stuff on the agenda like the next item by chance number um >> so so Councilman that was actually considered but here's the thing so when when all of these ordinances and resolutions pass none of them take effect they can't take effect in the moment so they take effect within the next week. Yeah. So today, because there's so much change, I'm not I've had some requests. We're not going to move anything around because right now people are looking at the agenda to see more or less when they can come to see the del or to hear the del briefing to hear the London church briefing. And if I start moving things around and items, it it's just not fair to the public. And so until we, >> you know, have our uh bearings really set in, I think it's better we just stick to the agenda. But I thought about it as well. >> Okay. I'd like to make a a motion to table it, please. >> So, we have a motion and a second. >> Second. Second. >> We have a motion and a second for uh Rebecca for to >> for tableabling. Yes, Mr. Ku. And then M. >> Motion and a second for the item to forward as is. Okay. So, >> but a postponement can go above that. >> Above that. Councilwoman Von, did you have a comment? need to remember is there is a second reading. >> There's a second reading. So, this doesn't mean it's going to pass. It's a second reading next time. >> Good point. >> Okay. >> So, you have a motion to table. >> And the only reason I'm tableling it is because of the fact that let's get this public comment thing organized and then >> Okay. >> And we have a second. Councilwoman Compost. >> All right. >> Please submit. >> Okay. Please submit your vote. table until we when you want to table it to >> I'm sorry. >> Have a date specific. >> When did you want to table it to sir? >> To the next meeting. >> Would somebody like to ask a question? >> May I ask a question? >> Can you ask a question? Right here, Reverend. Over here. Yes. >> Do I need to go over there? >> Yes, please. >> To Sarah. >> I just public comment thing out of the way so we can figure it out. >> If I may. Yes. Uh, if this tables this zoning case expires, it's already been in the >> If you table what? >> If we table the zoning case, it expires. >> It It expires. >> Correct. It's already been in the queue 6 months. >> And so what does that mean? >> That means they would have to come back, reapply, start the process over. >> And how long would that take? >> Uh, well, it took six months to get here. >> So, another six months. So, we if we table this, we're tableabling it for another six months. >> We can't bend the rules. >> Well, >> is it >> answer? the city of Corpus Christie. >> Okay. >> We have been t >> Okay. >> Councilman Councilman Hernandez. >> Uh point of order on this. This can be tabled until after the discussion on uh public comment. So >> public >> we can have that in place. So it can be later today. It just be after at the after the discussion. So you can table it for later discussion for later today after that after the >> Rebecca. Is that correct? >> No, because we would be voting on whether or not we allow that uh on those items, >> but it doesn't go into effect. Councilman Hernandez, >> would it go into effect or we could make authorization to do it? >> No, it wouldn't go into effect. There's a a section in the charter uh that says that um the mayor has a veto power. So ordinances don't go and motions or resolutions don't go until 7 days. No, sir. It's the charter. It's the city. >> No, I understand that. But we're talking about a first reading. The what we're talking about in terms of policy uh council policy in terms of the >> Yeah, you could you can move it if you want to, but what I'm saying is it wouldn't go into effect until um after she signs it. So, seven days. >> All right. >> So, she has seven days to sign it, and that is per the city charter. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Councilwoman Vaughn, >> you know, when we moved public comment, all that was supposed to change was the time. That's it. Just the time. This is getting too confusing. This is ridiculous. I'm not going to vote to table it because we can go to a second reading if we do not want to approve it. We do not have we shouldn't have to make someone wait another six months to do something. So, I'm not going to vote to table it. I'm just letting y'all know that I want to vote and we go back and we get more information. We get Hillrest, whoever wants to speak, come up and speak. We change your mind, we can change your mind. I think we're making it too difficult. >> Well, we are, but and Councilwoman, I'll just say again, this was based on the language that was passed last week regarding all of this public comment. So unfortunately, you know, the public comment items that we have on the agenda today, they're for, you know, to be to become in effect or to be effective in a week. So that said, Councilman Kentu, I think you didn't realize none of us did that it would be a six-month lag. Go ahead. >> Is there any possible way that we can let the public speak on this item before we vote on it? give them give them like an exception on this item. >> Well, I think that if I do that though, Councilman, we're looking at making exception. This is all a new agenda. Like Councilwoman uh Vaughn said, there's going to be more opportunity, number one. Number two, I don't know what's going to happen with the public comment items later, which would be going into effect next week. This has a second reading. So, I think today I agree with her. I think we, you know, I don't think it was your intent either to make anybody wait six months. >> No, I don't want anybody waiting six months. I just want them I just want the public to speak. >> I agree. >> I think I think they're confused like we're confused >> and I think we should just have an exception and is on this one item >> to have them speak and that's it. >> My opinion. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I think uh Well, but you have a motion to table. So, do you want to >> I don't want to table is So you're okay. So you'll pull that motion. Um we have a motion in a second and so we're going to go ahead and vote on that knowing there is a second reading coming forth and some clarification likely on uh public comment. So please submit your vote. Here it is. No. >> Can we see Miss Compost 2, please? >> No. >> Thank you. >> I've been I've been here the whole time. I don't know why I don't come up on the screen. Councilwoman Compos, did you you need to make a comment? >> No. My comment was this that the reason that it took six months is because it was the city staff that kept pushing it. Don't put it on us. It was city staff. The Hillrest neighborhood was ready to make public comment. But then again, it got changed. So again, stop putting the blame or start being honest about this. It was sent us. It was city staff. The motion carries. Thank you, Miss Gumplas. Okay, we're going to move on to um item 18, and that is zoning case number ZN8553, Porter Corpus Christi Authority. Mr. Dice. >> All right, Mayor Council Michael Dice, uh director of development services. Uh before you is zoning case ZN8553. The applicant is the Port Authority of Corpus Christi. This property is also located in district 1. Uh the subject property uh the requested reszone is from CN1 neighborhood commercial and RM1 multif family to the IH heavy industrial. The subject property is u various platted tracks and rights of way slated for closure which was voted on earlier uh totaling 7.6 acres. 41 notices were mailed inside the required 200 foot buffer with three notice uh mailed outside uh to schools within one mile of the subject property. Uh the Port of Corpus Christi owns 14 of the 41 properties within the 200 foot buffer. We received zero notices in opposition within the 200 and eight emails in opposition outside the 200. The summary of the opposition letters include uh Washington Koh's Hillrest neighborhood is the last standing historical and culturally significant black community. They have already endured decades of environmental racism. Nearby schools, churches, and future parks are in jeopardy of heavy polluters. Consider a large buffer zone. The Hillrest residents deserve a peaceful environment and an end to injustice. Closing Broadway, Newasis, and Winnebago Streets cuts directly through Hillrest, and they are the oldest and easiest ways to get into the community. And finally, uh, Harbor Bridge project has already inflicted significant harm on Hillrest, and this resoning will only make the damage worse. There was one notice in favor. Uh, they did not provide a reason, and the resident lives in Florida. Oops. You know, I skipped a one. My apologies. I skipped one. Um, the purpose of the request is to allow warehouse and freight movement at some heavy industrial activities to unify a 42 acre layown yard to the north. The property is part of the downtown development plan adopted in 2018. The subject parcel is zoned CN1 and RM1 multif family. To the north is vacant zoned IH and RS6. To the south is vacant zoned RM1. To the east is vacant zoned RM1. And to the west is medium density residential public semi-public zoned IH and IIL. Again, this was the notices that I read. Staff reviewed the subject properties background information and concluded the following. The proposed resoning is consistent with the city of Corpus Christi comprehensive plan, however, inconsistent with future land use designation of light industrial and medium density residential. The proposed amendment aligns with the existing zoning regulations in neighborhood land uses uh with compatibility and character of surrounding areas. The reasonzoning doesn't negatively impact the adjacent properties and staff has taken into consideration the areas in transition. The property designated for reszoning is well suited for the intended use permitted under the zoning district. Planning commission recommended denial to the heavy industrial and in lie thereof approved a light industrial. Staff recommends approval. I stand by for any questions. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Dice. I'm going to go ahead and um open public comment. We have Jason Hail. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, good afternoon, council members. Jason Hail, Corpus Christi. Um, I was at the meeting. It was a really good discussion. Um, the way I see it is heavy industrial means you're taking a raw material, putting it through a manufacturing process, and creating a product. Um, I'm concerned with having a heavy industrial zoning here, especially with how close it is to the bridge. Um, I think the planning commission had a um a good determination and um I oppose any heavy industrial zoning for this area. Thanks. >> Thank you, Mr. Hail. Carrie Meyer. Okay, Carrie Meyer is not with us. Lamont Taylor, Lamar Taylor. Um, Mayor Council, um, as you know, this is a historic district, um, for African-Americans community. Um, the heavy industrial is right adjacent to where you guys going to invest for a swimming pool. It's going to be right next to a swimming pool. is going to be right next to a ballpark that um the that is proposed for this particular area and going straight up the street is the other area. So you in essence you putting a heavy industrial where people are coming to participate activities, playing and recreation. So yes, I'm opposed to this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Mr. Taylor. Councilman Paxton, do you have a comment? >> Yeah, Mayor. Um, thank you, Mike. I believe so. When I pull the parameters for zoning that is heavy industrial, there is a list of course of things allowed in that zoning. If you pull light industrial, there is a list of items approved in that zoning. The subject property has a request standing for both. The city staff is recommending light. There are several provisions under heavy that are not allowed under light. But there's a third parameter. If I understand correctly, I had a I was in phone calls this week trying to get as much information about this as possible because I share the concern with the close proximity to these recreational facilities. There is a third jurisdiction over this property and that is the closeness to the bridge. >> Correct. So if I am not mistaken, text dot has an outline of provisions that cannot be furnished in the proximity. Correct. >> So where we're recommending light industrial, which is the lesser of those two zonings. >> And again, I just want to be clear, staff was recommending the heavy, the light industrial came from planning commission. >> Sure. Okay. He's Could you say that again, Mike? staff recommended the heavy industrial and during the planning commission hearing, planning commission recommended the light industrial. >> What's in our package is light? >> No, our recommendation on the slide is is for heavy industrial. >> When was that updated? Because as of just last night, everything said >> I see where it read. Okay, so it reads staff recommends approval that we recommend approval of the initial application, not necessarily the planning commission recommendation. I see that differently. >> About two or three conversations with the city's manager's department because this was very important to me and they all all conversations said we are recommending light. Again, we're following the recommendation but we have in the original application. We don't like to change the applications from the um initial application to what planning commission states. Um we want to make sure that that all that information is out there and planning commission did had a robust discussion on how that would change to the light industrial. >> Okay. But just to make it crystal clear because today's meeting is going to be robust with changes and trying to understand things. >> Correct. >> What we're being requested to approve is for heavy or light? >> Heavy. That's the initial application from the applicant. That goes against every conversation I've had all week, but that's okay because we can still make a motion up here one way or another. >> Correct. >> Um, but there is still yet another lens over this property, which is text dots requirements around a bridge. >> Correct. There can't be no flammable uh highly flammable materials uh buildings that emit uh certain uh chemicals. Uh they have a setback requirement from any of those uh any of their uh infrastructure, elevated infrastructure as it were. So this really limits it to that lay down yard uh that they're requesting anyway. >> So in addition to what we have in our parameters, they will have to follow that list >> rules. Correct. >> Of the text dot rules, >> right? Okay. >> Um Okay. I just wanted to just so that that's out there. There's this additional parameter that must be followed regardless of zoning. >> Yeah. Anything in adjacency to the bridge has to meet text dot requirements. >> Okay. Thank you, Mike. Okay. Thank you, Mike. Next will be Michael Miller. >> Council me, did you have a comment now? Go ahead. >> Okay. Mike, uh, Michael Dice, give me a second. real quick. Um, why would you recommend a zoning that is contrary to texttop requirements? >> Again, for what is uh being requested for the layown type of yard, uh, it regardless of how we approve that zoning, as as Councilwoman Paxton said, there are other requirements. It's similar to zoning around a an airport. We can zone around an airport, but they have FAA regulations that they follow as well. So, the heavy industrial allowed them to do what they needed to do and still uh have to comply with those text rules. >> Um, it just seems a little odd that we would be recommending something that you could do a zoning that is counter to what you got because I mean, let me read the statement. The heavy industry zoning district provides for industrial operations of all types that may be noxious or offensive due to odors, smoke dust noise fumes orations but yet we would be restricted from that from textile next to the bridge. It seems like we're I understand what you're saying um administratively, but you know, practically it sounds pretty stupid. >> Again, we're taking what the applicant has requested and trying to uh accommodate that request. And again in addition to other state and federal requirements what they will have to meet. >> Okay. Um the other aspect of this is is there any requirements for solid barriers because obviously we had uh requirements for a park that are right across the street on Wnebago. So well what kind of uh barrier are you going to have? >> So they have to have solid screening and there has to be fence and points within that >> solid screening. What does solid screening mean? fencing where you can't see through and some of >> a wood fence. What kind of fence? >> And that's where I'm getting some of the discussions the port has offered to build is what was stated earlier more substantial fence along that park. >> Substantial fence like what a masonry wall. What are we talking about? >> I'll let them answer that. >> We're proposing to build a concrete barrier similar to what you would see off of I37. You know that that's kind of like a concrete correct slide. >> So it be a visual and sound barrier. Okay. Separate the area. >> Okay. Thank you. I guess if I may just in regarding the textile requirements, you know, the textile, you know, the bridge does run through all of port property, so we're aware aware of all the requirements by textile. >> Mr. Miller, >> am I on? Okay. Michael Miller, Corpus Christie, District 2. Um, I am a planning commissioner, but I am not speaking on behalf of the commission. And I'm speaking on behalf of myself, uh somebody that has spent time with uh the folks living in in Hillrest and also with folks that um intend to develop the port. And um I know all of you don't have the time to read and watch all of the planning commission meetings or all of the meetings of all of your subcommittees, but um I wanted to give you some perspective of my experience with this particular case. And um I uh sort of brokered a deal between uh Sam and the port and um the folks in Hillrest that I think was a good compromise. Um I asked uh Mr. ESL if uh you know what the intentions were with this property and the intentions he told me was to store military vehicles and um windmill blades. And I said, "Well, can you accomplish that with light industrial zoning?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Would you be agreeable to this uh arrangement?" and compromise. And he said yes. And the folks at Hillrest all agreed that that was an excellent compromise. They left that meeting high-fiving each other that they got a win. Uh when I found out that there was additional conversations happening after that meeting about, you know, trying to sway this back towards heavy industrial, I was a little bit toed. Um, so, um, we had a good deal, a good compromise, and so that I ask, uh, that you, uh, respect that and vote in favor of the light industrial zoning for this piece of property. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Miller. Uh, Peter Moore, is Peter Moore with us? Okay. James Klene. Hi, my name is Jim Klein. I live in district 2. Uh I would just echo some of the comments been made previously. There's a huge difference between light industrial and heavy industrial. Uh light industrial in my view the lesser significant lesser of the evils in the area here. Um, and given the fact that there are recreational spots, parks, swimming pool adjacent to all this property, uh, it makes no sense to have this zoned as heavy industrial. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Klein. Alex uh Fleck. Um, hi there. Um yeah, so my name is Alex Sluki. I live in district 2 and I am here to urge y'all to not vote to have heavy industry in the Hillrest and Washington Kohl's neighborhood. Um these neighborhoods do not deserve to be continuously harmed by um the desalination plant, big industry, etc. Um residents of Corpus deserve to have equal access to clean air and water no matter what district they live in. This resoning vote could cause a great deal of harm. Um, Corpus clearly needs clean and reliable water, but desalination is not the answer. Um, desalination would create water for big industry to continue expand here in the coastal bend and this would all be, you know, at the expense of our residents. So, please vote to not have heavy heavy industry in these neighborhoods. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Flick. Tina Butler. Good afternoon. My name is Tina Butler. I'm in District 3. Uh I'm here regarding the opposition to the resoning of any type of industrial uh in the Hillrest area. Um, zoning has long served as a tool to segregate and marginalize communities, especially those who are econom economically disadvantaged and disproportionately people of color. This legacy is evident in the history of Washington CO and Hillrest neighborhoods. In the past, discriminatory city policies confined African-Americans to specific parts of Corpus Christi, restricting their rights to rent, own land, and operate businesses. The construction of Highway 37 physically and symbolically isolated this neighborhood from the rest of the city, giving rise to the name the cuts. Today, the port in the city proposed to reszone the very area where these communities were originally forced to settle. This time in pursuit of industrial and commercial commercial interests. Reszoning this neighborhood would open up the door for polluting industries and other undesirable land uses directly threatening the health and well-being of the residents who remain who are predominantly black and brown. Exposure to additional environmental hazard will further diminish their quality of life and perpetuate a cycle of injustice. There's no shortage of unoccupied land with paved roads near the docks on the other side of the railroads. land where people were previously displaced and businesses shuttered known as the Washington coals in the purple area on the maps that is not being used at this time. So why not use it? Why not prioritize the use of these vacant areas rather than imposing further pollution and disruption on families who still live in the neighborhood and who treasure its parks which stands as a rare community resource deserving not only of protection but of revitalization. I implore you to consider the legacy of these decisions and the real human impact they have on generations of residents instead of repeating the mistakes of the past which must strive for justice and equity in our city's planning. I keep hearing about the industry, the port, etc. It's already across the street and there's already that. I believe these maps clearly show that if any of this is approved, you are putting these things at someone's front door. Some parent that wants to take their child to a new fancy park or splash pad would have to walk around or drive through this. It's okay to say no right now. You don't have to agree or try to accommodate or whether you wait 6 months or not, it's okay to say no. So, I ask that you vote against this um ordinance. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Butler and Mariah Boon. Hello, I'm Mariah Boon, District 2. I'm also here to speak in opposition of the resoning of the Hillcrest and Washington Koh's neighborhoods to heavy industrial use. Um I taught for seven years at taught social studies at Driscoll Middle School which is attended by the children of Hillrest and Washington Kohl's. I um had a long career working with children and families in social work prior to my teaching time and I have to say I have never encountered children and families with as many health problems as the children who live in Hillrest and Washington Kohl's. When I taught at Driscoll Middle School, I actually had to stop bringing my own daughter to help me set up my classroom before semester started and take him down because every time she was there for more than a couple of hours, she would have a terrible asthma attack. I originally thought that was coincidence until the Driscoll Health Plan published the incident of asthma attacks and hospitalizations by their location at around the same time. And I realized that it was not coincidence at all. The people in Hillrest and Washington Coohl's have already suffered tremendously due to our city's frankly racist policy decisions in the placement of industry. Um they don't need to be suffering more and this puts them in danger of suffering more health problems and it's really not acceptable and that is why I'm here to speak in opposition. I also want to say that um today being the first day of the new public comment rules and there being issues like this that so many people in the community are very concerned about um the city secretary was in meetings this morning and not really available when people had questions about the new policies. So, I do think that at 5:30 in the general public comment, it would only be fair if the people who plan to come and talk about this issue were allowed to. But again, I'm here to speak in in great opposition of the harm that could be caused to this community by um by putting by reasoning to heavy industry. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Boon. Okay, that concludes our public comment on this particular item. And I think Councilman uh Roy Um I have a question for the port sir I want to understand um in terms of what the port is trying to accomplish. Can you accomplish what you need to accomplish based on um if this was uh light uh industrial? >> Yes. So the reason why we asked for the IH designation is because all the land to the north is already currently designated as IH. So we just wanted one contiguous land use. So the IO is perfectly fine for open storage. >> I I understand what you're saying. It kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You know, we got one house in the middle that's R six. Everything else across the street is um light industry. So how did we get there? It might not be right how we got there, but we are there now. And um I know we sat down I sat down with you and I know at the time when when you met with the community um we talked about uh zoning at light industry the planning commission. I thought we were all on sync in terms of that. So, I was also a little bit concerned and I was confused because I've been talking to some of my other council members and I was saying, "Oh, no. I'm pretty sure this is going to be light indust, you know, it's going to be zoned that way." And then when I I didn't even understand it a few minutes ago when I read it because I thought there was an error. >> Yeah. My question is, and here's my thing, and I think in the past, based on some of the things that we've done, when the planning commission makes a recommendation, I have seen the city fall in line with that recommendation many times, multiple times. Um, and I also understand the fact that Tex has provisions in place, but I want to consider that a backs stop. I want to consider that um the uh you know we don't I don't want to depend on text dot. We're here as city leaders trying to make a good decision on this. But I would tell you right now as the district one council member I will not support the fact that we're trying to zone that with heavy industry. I I won't support it. I won't support it because number one we sat down and we talked about it. I also believe when I talked that that you you spoke to other groups and and I and I don't want to speak on behalf of the NAACP, but I know that I believe when it comes to light industry, they were okay with that. Um, but this heavy industry thing, I just can't I can't support that. >> So, I want to make a motion if I can. >> You can >> to be able to amend this to light industry. >> Second. third. >> It was okay. So, uh, Mr. Dice, were you going to make a comment? >> Yeah. >> What's that to amend? >> Yeah, >> correct. Uh, the port is there amanable to the IIL. So, you would have to amend that. That's all. >> And and Mr. Dice and and for all staff, I I really don't know. We don't need to necessarily get into the weeds, but >> what what the councilman just stated is absolutely true. and and that was the understanding of of pretty much everyone and that was a public meeting. So how this came back to where that's not even being um recommended or or referenced >> it it'll be clear in the future. >> Okay. Because that that's it it doesn't look good. Um and yeah, thank you. All right. Thank you, Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, thank you, Councilman Roy, um, for for taking that step because I agree. Um, it was said a moment ago in public comment. That's what I'm interested in. We have the residents, we have the port, we have the city, we have the commissions and committees and everyone coming together and coming up with those good solutions that work for everyone. That's what I think myself and several colleagues really want to support. So, thank you guys for those efforts to come together and find a positive solution. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman. So, we have a motion in a second. If everyone will please submit their vote. Okay, Miss Compost. >> Oh, okay. I guess she's all right. >> See? >> Oh, are you there, Miss Compost? Wait wait >> ma'am. >> I'm trying. It's no. >> Okay. No. Thank you. >> Okay. The motion carries. >> It has to >> At this time it is 1:30 >> and we are >> I'm sorry. >> No. >> Okay. It's 1:30. We're going to break for lunch and go into executive session pursuant to Texas government code 551.071. And we will return. Okay, good afternoon everyone. We're going to go ahead and reconvene our meeting. And we left off at section K, which is individual consideration items uh number item I'm sorry, item number 19 through 22. So item number 19 is consideration and approval of an ordinance authorizing the issuance of the city of Corpus Christie, Texas combination tax and limited pledge revenue certificates of obligation for solid waste improvements approved by city council in the fiscal year 2025 CIP budget. >> Thank you, Mayor Sergio Vasan, director of finance and procurement here. Um I have a presentation before you that's going to cover the next uh this item and three the three others. And so to try to save some time here, uh the item before you is a delegation of ordinance. Uh the presentation here is for all uh debt that's being issued. And so jumping here into slide number one, what this pres presentation will encompass is basically I'll start here with kind of an overview of how we finance our capital projects. And just to kind of give you a brief idea, we start here in around summertime with the with the capital budgets or capital projects are presented to the council for review and approval as well as a funding source for those projects in our capital improvement plan. The council then reviews and adopts and approves those those items. Uh then around wintertime, I'll come forward with a reimbursement resolution. And that reimbursement resolution, what it does is authorizes the city to start spending funds on the approved projects from the uh from the capital improvement plan. And then roughly spring and or summer here um I'll come here and uh request a delegation of authority ordinance to go ahead and sell the the bonds and notes. And so all these items that we bring before you uh do have reimbursement resolutions. We have a reimbursement resolution for our general obligation bond 2022 projects from December 20th, 2022. Our certificate of obligation projects uh were approved by council on January 30th, 2024 as well as December 3rd, 2024. Our tax note uh pro notes were also approved by council on December 3rd, 2024 as far as the reimbursement resolution. So funds have been spent already on these projects and this is the next step is to go ahead and start issuing that to reimburse ourselves for for these projects. So today is the first reading of the ordinance delegating authority to certain staff members to go ahead and go out and sell these bonds within the set parameters within the ordinance. Uh just to touch on our general obligation bonds here, we'll be issuing 30 million uh from our 2022 bond projects and we still have about 45 million 45 million million left to issue. Um and we also have potential refunding of about 35.7 million which we hope to achieve some savings there. Uh so this table here is just a recap of the bond 2022 voter authorization. Uh the voters authorized 125 million of bond funded projects and uh we've issued about 50 million in prior years. Uh this year we'll be issuing 30 million and that leaves the remaining 45 million to be issued for streets in hopefully 2026. This slide here is a recap of all the street projects that are being funded through the 92.5 million uh general obligation bonds. Uh we are also including tax exempt certificates of obligation. Uh we're going to issue about 38.7 million certificates of obligation. And this next slide here is next couple slides will break out how those funds will be used. Uh we have 4.1 million that we're going to dedicate to that's dedicated to public health and safety. About 20 million dedicated to street and storm water infrastructure. Uh about 11.9 million dedicated to parks and recreation. and about 2.5 million dedicated to public facilities. We also have taxable certificates of obligation that we're going to be issuing here about of an amount not exceedingly 4.4 million and these are for our solid waste program. And lastly, we have the tax notes of 11.1 million that we will be issuing and these are to cover public safety vehicles and street developer participation. So the steps that we've taken so far to get here, we started back in May 13th uh 2025 with our financial advisors presenting the financial u plan presentation to y'all and we also at the same time brought in the certificate of obligation notice of intent uh which was approved. Once we received that approval, we did have the two publications required in the caller times which were published May 18th May and May 25th of 2025 notifying the residents of the issuance of these certificates of obligation. And we're here today on July 15th with the first reading ordinance to authorize delegation of authority within set parameters. July 22nd will will be the second reading of this of these ordinances. Um August 20th we plan to close on the general obligation bond certificates of obligation as well as the tax notes. October 30th we start the sale of refinancing of bonds. December 17th we'll have the closing date for the refinancing bonds with and then finally March 2nd we'll uh redeem the refinance bonds. That concludes the presentation and I'm here for questions. >> Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and open uh public comment. We have one public commenter in on item number 19 and that is Rachel Gavayto. Is Rachel with us? No. Okay. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment and I don't see any questions or comments. I'll entertain a motion to approve item number 19. >> I move for approval. Second. >> Okay. We have a motion and a second. Please submit your vote. Absolutely. Let me let me let this go through real quick. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay. Hold on just a sec. Go ahead. Council one. >> I can't believe there's no questions on spending this much money. I'm just shocked. Okay. It says December of 24th. The previous council approved all of the CIP. >> Correct. money. >> Yes, the the projects are approved during the budget process. Um once they're approved uh in the December time of winter time, we come with a reimbursement resolution. And so what that reimbursement resolution does, it authorizes the city to start spending funds. The city's own funds uh with the understand will come back and issue the debt to reimburse those coffers. >> Okay. How is this different from a while back we had one there were certificates of obligations. I think it was 43 million and I asked about that. Yeah, these are all the same. This is all related. Yeah. So, the last meeting for those 43 million was our uh certificate of obligation was the notice of intent that we intend to issue these at this time. >> And so, we're required to have that notice approved by the council and then um publish have two publications within the local newspaper. And so, that was a step one. There was no money or no issue at that time. Okay. >> This is the step to issue the debt to >> this is nothing new. It's what had been approved by the previous council. >> Correct. This is like a year-long process. >> Yeah. >> Right. Okay. And the go bonds, talk to me about that. >> Uh these are, uh these are from the 2022 bond projects. And so, uh past practice would be at the time those projects were approved, we would issue the full debt amount, uh which then would sit in our in our coffers. Uh but now you're servicing the full amount of debt. So your debt payments are larger. Okay. >> And so what we do now, we we're issuing that on an as needed basis. So, as we're spending down our our own the city's own money, we then issue debt to replenish our coffers. So, there's a lag as far as by the time we come back out to issue debt. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> U Thank you, Councilwoman. And yeah, for the public to know, I don't I don't think it's that no one has any questions on it because it it is a lot of uh it's it's a huge expenditure. Um uh but but this was something that was spoken about more in depth or quite a bit in depth in last year's uh fiscal year. So let's see. We we're and Miss Composa, were you going to vote or are you are we good with continuing? >> I think we're in the middle of submitting votes. >> Okay. >> Uh >> there you are. Okay. What was your vote, ma'am? Um, I'm sorry, but I was in between moving around, so I'm going to have to abstain on this. >> Yes, ma'am. All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, let's see here. Well, we're in the middle of voting. Miss Gambayto walked in. You had signed up for public comment, so come on up. >> What's it? >> Miss I'm sorry. Miss Vaughn had not voted, so I'm asking her what her vote was on this item. Well, that's why I said we're in the middle of voting, so no, that's okay. Go ahead and make your public comment. >> Rachel Gabayto, D1, um, I am really confused at the amount of expenditures that are on here and with, uh, Councilwoman, I agree that there aren't any questions being asked. Maybe everybody's bellies are full from lunch, but I thought we were going to get away from certificates of obligation. Um, we have an extensive amount of debt that you guys are trying to put onto the community with this Inner Harbor DESL that is going to require double the revenue that you guys are not receiving. Um, and considering that this is you guys already have a $7 million deficit in the budget is a problem. And also another problem is three senior analysts have been fired in the budget department. Um, and that's questionable. Uh, there's there's when people during finance season are getting terminated, scrutiny needs to happen and we have to look back on these requests and demand some transparency apparently across the board and not just on inner harbor diesel spending. So, I mean, it's pretty apparent from earlier today that we're not being heard and that our First Amendment rights are being violated. So, do with that what you would like. That's for the record and the community. Thank you. And again, um, Miss, maybe I'm not sure if you heard the comment or not, but this item was discussed. These are items that were voted on and discussed thoroughly in last year's fiscal year. So today is the last process uh step in the process. Okay. The MO is this the updated voting? >> Oh, sure. No. Is this >> Okay. I didn't know if this was the new one or old one. Councilwoman Vaughn, are some of these projects already in process? >> Oh, yes, they are. Yes. So, once we get the reimbursement resol resolution, these projects are started and like the mayor said, these are discussed during the budgeting process. >> Okay. They're in process and so that means we have to pay vendors. >> Correct. And we are paying vendors. We're paying them with the city's money right now. >> And so this step is to issue debt to reimburse the city for those funds. >> Thank you. >> And these are solid waste improvements, right? Approved by fiscal in the in fiscal year 2025 CIP budget. All right. Thank you. >> For the record, Miss Vaughn voted yes. Just so >> Right. Right. Do we have the results of this vote yet or is this old? >> 52. >> It It's 62. >> Okay, I see. >> And then Sylvia voted no. Actually, it's um >> correct. Yeah, >> abstained. >> Okay. Item number is a consideration approval. consideration and approval of an ordinance authorizing the issuance of uh City of Corpus Christie, Texas general improvement and/or refunding bond series 2025 for the second issuance of bonds from the bond 2022 authorization for projects approved by the voters in November of 2022. >> Again, one second. Councilwoman Pex, >> thank you, Mayor. Um I think her last sentence kind of summed it up. What this item is to me is this is the authorization of the voter approved bonds. So under your previous presentation, that's all those items that the voters approved for expenditures. >> Correct. The first agenda item was the certification of solid waste and you're right. Uh this is the obligation >> picking through the whole packet. Just wasn't wanted to confirm. I move to approve. Thank you. >> Second. >> Thank you for making that point. Okay. We have a motion in a second. We're going to open public comment and that would be uh again Miss Rachel Cabayto. >> Not on 20. Mayor, she she pull on 21. >> You're 21, not 20. Okay. So, we we don't have anybody for for 20. We'll close public comment. We have a motion in a second. Please submit your vote. >> Okay. Miss Compos. >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. The motion carries. Item number 21 is consideration and approval of ordinance authorizing the issuance of city of Corpus Christi, Texas combination tax and limited pledge revenue certificates of obligation for capital improvements to streets, public health and safety facilities, parks, facil uh public facilities and storm water infrastructure approved by city council in the fiscal year 2025 CIP budget. >> Thank you mayor. These are uh projects from that were approved in the 2025 CIP budget. Um and this should be the last crunch of CEOs that we're issuing for those projects. Um uh staff recommends approval. >> Okay. Uh we're going to open public comment. Miss Cabayetto, would you like to come up? >> Here we are again. Back to CO Rachel Gavayto D1. Um, I'd like to set a precedent maybe with the people that we know we can trust up here is to can we stop the certificates of obligation? Um we still have the city manager whose review is up uh here in the future and with everything that has been occurring and the scrutiny involving that employment um can we halt the spending just a little bit until we can figure out as the community the majority of the community has determined that we're no longer happy with this city manager. We would like to curtail some of the spending and be conservative people with regards to not approving any more certificates of obligation. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Camayto. We'll go ahead and Well, I'm going to close public comment. Councilwoman Vaughn, >> so when were these issued? I mean, >> uh, these were part of our 2025 budget. Um, and so for these projects, uh, we had the reimbursement resolution issued in, uh, or approved in December, uh, December of 2025. I'm sorry, December of 2024. Um, we have already funds spent on these of about 2 million of funds actually spent and 8 million incomers. So, we have contracts with companies and v contractors already for these projects. >> 8 million in contracts, 2 million been spent. >> Correct. >> You know what? Here's where I have a problem. I wish that we could do something where you don't sit here and bring all of these in one contract for COS where you just so we don't have to vote on every one of them because there's some I see on here I don't want to vote for and I know they did it in 2024 but still there's some that I mean have we ever done it to where we just don't we bring back one item and say let's do a co on that instead of 15 20. >> Yeah I think that's done part as part of the budget process. So soon we'll be bringing the capital budget. If there's a project in there, that's where it really starts that you don't want to fund then we would remove it. If the council, the majority of the council went in that direction. Uh just for the council, I've repeated it before. These are all from 2024, but my practice has been going forward to not recommend COS anymore. >> Good. >> Um and then here, these cos the ones that were prior voted on, those are from two years ago. These are short-term tax notes. So sevenyear debt, not 20 year debt. Uh the ones for streets, at least in this in this item here, >> right? >> So are you saying that the CIP budget, the book that we've got, >> are some of those are the ones that are in here that we're talking about? >> Correct. >> So are they going to come back to us where we could pull any of them? >> Uh well, it dep um if it's if it hasn't begun yet, if it does if it's not in a contract, you know, these projects, some of them take two two plus years to construct. So, it could be that it's midcycle. It's midway through the construction contract. Um, but the time to really remove them, this is Sergio just said, this is like a year's long process. >> So, we're kind of we're at the tail end of the process, but the new process begins with the upcoming budget, the 26 capital budget. >> Well, you know what would be nice, Mr. Cone, is that the council that approved these Yeah. >> should get to do all of this instead of us. >> I know, right? What we're doing is we're cleaning up what they did and we're going to get blamed for what they did. I'm not telling y'all did anything wrong. I'm just saying even for this new council right here, let them take the hit for it. Let us take the hit for what we do. >> I I just don't like this process. I'm having I'm having a struggle because I feel like we're spending an awful lot of money real quick. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's part of the nature of the It's just, you know, there's two two-year cycles in the council. We do the budget once last summer and then there's an election in November >> and then the issuance of debt is a year later or years, you know, months later, almost a year later. >> Yeah. >> And I get that. >> Yeah. >> I don't like it, but I get it. Okay. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> I have a couple of struggles here. I want to say on record first and foremost most everything on this list I wholeheartedly want to see completed and I do understand that these were things that were passed previously. My concern if we are presented items and it says it's coming out of the gen fund XYZ but then the plan is to go back and reimburse ourselves by issuing more debt. That's a problem. And I understand that that is a viable way to execute contracts of of and clearly it can be done because it's been done. But that puts us in the predicament like council member Vaughn is describing where now we're having to approve this first item is almost $40 million in this debt that we didn't say yes to. And I realize y'all are in the middle position because you got a vendor in one hand that you're trying to pass a check to. You got a council in the other hand that has to issue debt in order to hand you the check. And the council's having some heartburn over that. And I and I'm not meaning to speak on behalf of all nine. I'm speaking on myself, of course. My curiosity point is here. One, this in effect is retrospective. We're reimbursing ourselves for for old acceptance of projects. However, because we're reimbursing oursel now, that means it has yet to be paid. So, with that debt that we're going into and we're going to have to pay, what else in 2026 that we haven't seen yet are we going to be needing to approve and having to approve to to me? I feel like I'm having it's like I have to say yes to something that was previously said with no idea what's coming down the tunnel yet. That's my issue here. Also, um in speaking with Heather this past week and she was very helpful. Another concern is that these are stated as certificates by the levy of an advalorum tax upon all taxable property within the city. She said this is she assured me this wasn't going to change our tax rate. >> That is correct. That is correct. Our financial advisors have run some numbers and our tax rate or INS rate will stay the same. But if the rate is staying the same, >> we're still paying the debt. So what is the actual impact? >> So our current uh debt service for this fiscal year is about 63 million. Um and so with this debt issuance and the refunding of the general obligations, we anticipate the amount of debt that's going to be funded from the INS is projected at 62 million. So it's actually going down. And so the way that happens is in prior years we kind of frontload our debt which means the first payment is usually significant compared to the remaining years. Here it's uh smoothed out throughout the life of this debt. So it actually uh is coming out lower this next year. So your amortization schedule to repay the debt in the past we start high up and then it smooths down. Here we're just keeping it flat. So your first payment isn't high. So the impact to the INS rate is not there. >> But what is it going to look like when we add in everything that's going to come to us as requests for 26? >> So for 2026, so for certificates of obligation, this is the last uh items projects that we had on our CIP projects that are funded by certificates of obligations. Uh what's pending left for sure is the general obligations of about 45 million that we need to bring back. Uh we don't want to issue those funds in advance. I can tell we're saving a lot of money by not issuing all the debt all in one lump sum. Uh your debt service payments, the amount of interest you would pay by issuing all debt upfront is pretty significant versus the way we're doing it. So it is a year lag, but it is saving the taxpayers a significant amount of money on interest. Um and that's why the city does it the way we we do it. And so I know that you're at the point where you're saying these 30 items you're requesting for reimbursement through a debt. >> There's no other foreseeable option where we do not have to increase our debt to pay these to pay these um projects out. >> No, no, no. These have been looked at. Uh we actually have a conservative net taxable assessed value that our financial advisor assisted with. So just to give you some numbers. So last year the taxable assessed value for the city was about 30 billion. Uh you have to take away about almost two billion about 1.8 billion for tax increment zone funding. So you strip that out. So our net assessed valuation is about 29.5 billion and that's what our debt service was built off of last year. Our financial advisor have conservatively estimated a 2% decrease in our taxable assessed value. So they've come down to about 28 billion and from there they built this modeling. And so that's how with that model, even with the conservative with the decrease in assessed values that is being estimated, we're able to maintain the tax rate at um 222 cents per $100 valuation. >> Okay. >> Yeah, Councilwoman, we we um you'll see it in the budget process coming up, but we have a debt management plan that goes out plus 10 years. And um it's it's we never issue more debt than what we can pay for. So we live within that property tax ad voluorum rate that um that is used to pay debt. And so our bond programs like the last one was 2024. The cycle for this city has been every two years. So um if the council chooses to do so, we'll we'll begin to develop a 2026 bond program. Uh but that issuance for that bond program won't be any more than what we can afford, staying within that maximum tax rate. Uh so we'll we'll never come to the council and issue more debt than what we can pay. And the the ability to to do more work is based on what we're paying off and based on values new and reappraisals. So if there's more taxable value um then we can have a bigger bond bond program and as we pay off debt uh that allows us to issue other bond program so we live within that that means so to speak. >> Okay. Mhm. >> I'm still struggling with it be with this before seeing a picture of 26. It's just to my mind I'd like to see everything we're going into. So that I'm struggling with it there. But thank you for your answers. >> Councilman uh Hernandez. >> Peter. Our debt management policy has not been updated since 2011 and there is no restriction on on use of certificates of obligation other than what you just said. There's no policy, council policy with restrictions to restrictions on with regards to restrictions on certificates of obligation. I ask that you bring that up for uh for review so we can actually update the debt management policy. It's referenced in our budget policy, but it's there since two it hasn't been even looked at since 2011. >> Right. That's correct, Councilman. >> Okay. Also, you had mentioned this for just to Councilwoman Paxton's uh questions, but you uh neglected to include your general obligation bonds that you were selling as well. >> Mhm. >> And what it's going to do to the no new revenue rate. >> As far as the general obligation bonds, that's all inclusive. The the um the analysis our financial advisors ran, they included all debt, including the taxable certificates of obligation, the tax notes, and the general obligations. Okay. So this was told to us last year. Same thing what you're saying this year that it's not going to affect our our rate associated with debt. But yet our tax our no new revenue rate went up 6%. Last year for this year's budget. >> Yeah. I'd have to look at the how what caused that because there's a multiple factors that go into that. Um I didn't I wasn't here last year for the the tax rate calculation. Uh so there's multiple factors depending how many properties let's say or valleys are being disputed. And so there's a lot to get to actual to actuals. Uh it's it is a calculation. Uh but I don't believe it's driven by debt because debt is then a separate calculation. >> Okay. So but from what you're saying here, we're not going to have an increase in our tax rate, no new revenue tax rate uh associated with the INS that it's all going to be the same. So we should not have an increase in our tax or no new revenue tax rate above 3 and a half% is what you're telling me. >> So to be very specific, it's no increase to the INS tax rate. uh the no new revenue tax rate. >> Not asking about the tax rate. >> Okay. >> I'm talking about how you know the what we used to call the effective tax rate. >> Correct. >> Okay. That's what I'm referring to. Not not the tax rate. I know what the tax rate is. >> That's that can be static and we can still have an increase in taxes. >> So So the no new revenue rate for maintenance and operation will fluctuate based on the changes in values and so that calculation would have to be worked out. Here the city's practice is to maintain a flat INS tax rate. So to get it right, it's the tax rate. So here the INS rate will remain flat and that is the the goal of the city. >> Okay. So the only increase which would have if any would be on the M side and it should be less than 3 and a half% is what you're telling me. >> Uh it on the M side it should be it can be less than three and a half but it can go above it but it will have be well we'll see >> until the calculations. I'm curious and I expect it to be shown separately both INS and M >> most definitely on the effective tax rate calculation of the no new revenue rate we do have to split out the INS portion and the M portion for >> okay thank you >> yes sir >> uh Councilman Bon last one parks and recreation I see that all these Harbor Bridge mitigation I think we need to look at that because that those are things that we have to do >> yeah those are those four and the communities referenced it today those are the four park projects around the bridge uh that we have uh developed a program for >> to do that >> at this point. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. We've worked with the state and the federal government to have them approved as part of the mitigation uh four-party agreement that was reached some time ago. >> I know I know that some of you have heartburn up here and I can't tell you how to vote, but if you're gonna vote against it, don't go to the ribbon cutting and say, "Hey, I voted for it. I helped you with this." Because I mean that's what happens because we don't have any choice as far as I'm concerned right here. We have to do it because they've already started. We have to pay the vendors. We cannot pay our vendors. And this mitigation is what caught my eye. We have to do that. >> Right. This is that we literally had to work with the federal government to get this approved so that they would release all the money to the state to build the bridge. So if we don't do this, they don't get the final check for the bridge. >> Thank you. It's all I got. >> Okay. Councilwoman uh Paxton. So, Councilman Vaughn, that's exactly what I was referencing was I'm looking at this and I wholeheartedly wanted these to to move forward, but when I pick this apart and I look at, you know, we've got one, two, three, four five no four um five items, excuse me, that directly go to Harbor Bridge Mitigation. of those five items, we knew those were one of those we have to this is an obligation. And yet to me, I mean, what year did we did did these become obligatory for us to execute? >> Um, >> ballpark. >> I think it was seven years ago, probably six to seven years ago, just before I started. >> The four party agreement was reached um >> 17 2017. >> Yeah, probably. That sounds about right. >> Okay. So, we're we're we're pushing a decade. I just in my mind, these are technically parks and recreation. Okay, it says parks and recreation and we've seen how many other projects and I'm glad for them. I'm happy we have projects. But this is what my issue is, is we prioritized those back through these through these almost 10 years and those got done because I can pretty much almost guarantee you we've spent more than 12 million collectively in 10 years in parks and wrecks and now we're at the point where essentially you got to pass this debt or they're not going to get their parks that we've promised them for almost a decade. That's where I hate to use that phrase, but my heartburn comes in because you got to recognize the position we're in. We just stood here and we said for over an hour, let's argue back and forth and make sure we're careful to recognize the citizens, the residents of that area. And we meant that sincerely and we want these to happen. But look what's look at the debt we're having to walk into. Our hands are are are stuck here. Is it possible moving forward? I had to say my piece. Moving forward, is it possible like what Mr. uh what Councilman Hernandez was saying for you to bring us some forecasting with with even if it's not set in stone, but evaluating what that essential rate would be >> if we pass this before we pass it. >> I'm sorry, council member, could you clarif I'm a little lost on the on the rate. >> I'm sorry. Um he said, "Do do you have the ability right now to tell us >> the effective tax rate if we pass this?" And you said, "You don't have you you weren't prepared to basically bring that up there." That sure fine, whatever. Is it possible to do a forecast like that before we say yes to this? Because in all in all realisticness, I want these projects to go forward. >> Sure. >> But I want to know because people are going to ask. I mean, for those of us who said, "I recognize it's expensive to live here." I'd like to know what are we saying yes to? And I agree with Carol with Councilwoman Vaughn >> sensibly our hands are kind of tied, but what does it look like? What are we saying yes to? >> And so the the tax rate there there is no impact to the INS rate. So your tax rate is made up of two numbers. And so the INS rate, we keep that flat every year. And so projections, our financial adviser does do these projections and they keep us within that rate, help us stay there. What's going to fluctuate your maintenance operation that's funds your operations, whether it's public safety, uh parks, culture, and recreation items, uh your general fun, all your general funds. So that will fluctuate depending on on what you decide to fund year-over-year. uh the the one solution which is not I wouldn't recommend is issuing debt that fall of the approval of the budget but once you issue all the debt at that point in time and I don't know as far as calendar wise I'd have to get with our bond council what are the rules for issuing debt uh you're going to pay a lot more in interest which then will impact the tax rate that will that will cost us more wouldn't recommend it and then we'll be hit with arbitrage and so when we hold too much bond funds we end up paying penalties or refunding any interest earned on those back to to the federal to the federal government. And so there's a lot of downside by issuing debt immediately uh versus the way it's stretched. And granted, there's downside to here where you're now having to make the decision very sensitive to that. Um there's kind of a balance is it will cost more to do it the other way. >> I know I said it a moment ago, but I can't get it out of my head. is I we had 10 years to make these items a priority and I know the landscape has changed a lot over 10 years in that area. However, here it is now 2025. It's finally before us but it's with a lot of strings attached and it's like we want to we want to do this but this is our cost. I just wish we had a better picture of what we're walking into as far as how that's going to impact. And my second larger thing here is it's a reality. We're we're going to increase by this much and and what we are what we owe, but what are we walking into for 2026? Because I I I realize things go by perom. They change, you know, every year is segregated, but they're not ostensibly because we have to be planning more than 12 months out as an institution of this size. And so everything we say yes to today, tomorrow for 2026, it's all going to snowball. And so I just feel like not having any picture yet into 2026, this is a really big bill to bite off. And I really desperately want to pass these all, but I feel like I don't see the big picture yet. So part of the 20 when you go through the 2026 budget, you'll see these incorporated to your 2025 estimated actuals. And so knowing what you've issued now going into 2026, the during the pro the capital improvement planning, you'll see what's going to we identify the funding sources which will identify which is funded through debt. And so that's kind of where you would see that a better picture of that. When are we supposed to see more that that what you're talking about that forecast? And I'm sorry, I should be using more FL language. >> Yeah, we'll show that as part of the budget, Councilwoman. We probably could have we could have showed it to you ahead of time. We have it. So, it's a 20-year model. It's a we refer to it as a debt management plan. So, this we, like you said, we do not work in 12 month periods in these type of infrastructure projects. And so we can see exactly how much debt we're going to have over the next 20 years, how it gets paid off, and then if you issue another bond program, how it could go back up, but there's a cap on it. And um you know, so we we do have that the city uh does have a good debt management plan in terms of its robustness. We do it internally and then we use our financial advisor as well, an outside uh uh um group. if you've seen him here before. Victor Kioga is one of our is a one of our uh persons that works with us. And so it's a it's a closely it's a closely monitored and managed plan. And we we're living within our maximum amount that the council has set with the tax rate of what we can borrow and um and so we we do have that. So we'll show that to you as part of the budget coming up for the next cycle. to me, this item and the next coming up. Um, that's how I that's how I'm going to feel and and I know everybody's watching. They're going to watch tonight. They're going to watch tomorrow. They're going to watch all week. They're going to pick that apart. >> I have no issue with these items, but I would like to see the full plan because I don't want to come to the next meeting and say, >> "All right, I didn't want to, but I spent this much because these were high priorities and now you're saying I have to do this again and have to do this again." I just like to see the full picture. Yeah. So that that's my preference as to >> We'll sit down. Yeah. This is an ordinance. So they will be on the agenda again next week. So we'll make sure you have and we'll sit down with you the debt management plan. >> You'll have it by the second vote. Uh, Councilman Roy, >> you know, I sit here and I listen to some of the comments here and this might not be very popular, but um I feel it's necessity to to discuss this because I hear some of the things that are being said by my fellow council members and I want to put some perspective in place. Um, I think first of all, I think it's extremely important that um, as council members that we go through and we look at historically where we're at. How did we get to this particular situation? It takes a lot of reading. It takes a lot of studying. It takes a lot of hours, you know, thousands of pages of documents to go through. One of the nice things about being involved since 2017 and being on different councils is because you have the ability to remember what happened and how did you get to seven years? How do you get to a point like that? Did you get to that because you basically didn't care or what are some of the steps and processes that led us to where we're at in the time frame? For example, when we talk about these parks and our obligation under the four the four-party agreement, there were multiple um meetings that took place with the community and and chime in Peter if you can, but there were multiple meetings that took place with the community in terms of trying to understand what is it that the community wanted. We knew what the obligation was. We knew what we had to do in terms of meeting that party agreement, but we had to get the buy off from the community. So, we went through there. We talked about a lot of different things. We talked about having a pool, not having a pool, >> going through and this type of park. No, this type of park. And then there was an agreement. We thought we had an agreement and there wasn't an agreement. So, we started over and and and that took a lot of time. >> Correct. >> And then we got to the place where the community and staff agreed. >> Right. >> And so, we went forward. So time is really so during this entire time we have to meet the obligations of what Tex dot's requirement is because they can't get paid until we go through and we perform under that contract. Right. >> Right. Because I think it's the people it's important for them to understand that that what regardless of the council member or city staff, they weren't just sitting there with their hands uh uh sitting on their hands. There were things that were going into place to try to set these things in motion. But I I do agree that time is money and unfortunately when we can't bring things to fruition for whatever the problem is, if the community didn't want it and they didn't agree and they said they were going to agree and then we didn't and we started over again, that's what happens because at the end of the day, um we have to work with our community. So now we're at a place where we're we're sitting here and we had to start the pre-engineering phase. Right. Right. If you go back and you look at the history of the city and you look historically in terms of how some sometimes we got the how we approach projects, we had a lot of complaints. We had an extreme amount of complaints from people saying that, okay, you're still working on a 2015 bond, 2016 bond. Remember the old days? >> Yeah. >> Right. And that cost us money, too. Because what would happen is by the time we went forward then what we were trying to do a lot of times was outdated and we couldn't achieve what we were trying to do. Right? >> So we kept pushing these things further and further back. >> My question to you Peter is this. Is there a better way to do this? Is the way that you're doing this right now? Um I think it is purposeful. I mean, I'll tell you right now, I was one of the ones in 2018 that led campaign reform to try to make it for council members. I see Lucy Ruvio out there remembers when I fought that initiative to try to go to four years, and it failed miserably. And so, um, we we've tried some of these things before, but the bottom line is is we got a two-year term, and it is tough because you either got to go back and you got to read and understand what your predecessors have done. And if you don't do that, then it is tough to make decisions up here. So that's the only really thing I wanted to un I wanted to talk to the public about because I wanted to give a perspective, especially in terms of somebody that's been around since those early days. I think Mark Scott, he can probably testify to that and some of the other ones. Carolyn Vaughn can. Um, so I I just want to give that perspective. But if there's a better way, Peter, I think the way that we're doing it right now, I I know it's uncomfortable, but I think it is the best way in terms of getting projects done and and saving the taxpayer money. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Scott. >> Yeah, I just want to say I'm not I'm not uncomfortable with the process. Uh if it saves the taxpayer money at the end and gets things done faster, I'm okay with it. >> Thank you, Councilman Scott. Uh, Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I want to just clarify it wasn't an attack on any previous or sitting council member. I was stating for my preference. This I know that it takes time to do projects. I know that the larger the longer the time it takes. I I totally understand that. but for the the scope of things that we've continued to do in our general operating and and I am of the philosophy to not expense increases increases in debt ratio. That's how I align. That's what I I continue to tell publicly and that is I think in a great part how I got the seat I'm sitting in. So, that's something I'm always going to continue to advocate for. And if there's ways that we can accomplish these goals without having to do that, that's going to be where I'm interested in, it would be wrong of me not to voice my opinion and say, "This is where I'm coming from. I agree with these projects. I want them to be done. How can we?" And I think that was actually one of the first things I said was, "Are we there's no other way that we can find this out of some other pool." It wasn't to shoot the project down, nor was it to shoot the feet of anybody sitting here with me. It was to state that's my preference. It's how do we is there a way because if anything in the last six, seven months, we've proven thinking outside of the box is quite all right. Let's venture the discussion. Let's see what we can do. And I am here six, seven months. And I think that's a fair question for me to say, especially as someone who does her homework and tries to be very actively involved. So I'm always going to ask the question. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Banetta, >> can you pull out a timer? I'm just kidding. >> You know, Peter, perhaps um there's a lot of questions here about financing. Um perhaps if and when we do and I hope we do have our board our council uh list of priorities and especially during the budget if if we could look at how the perspective of how that we we're financing those projects and what's the cost associated with you know pay as you go uh what is it or I mean obviously it's not doing the project >> and so I think that's the thing and I think one of the reasons our bond bond rating has improved is because we've expedited all these projects and you know our bond rating improved again congratulations >> you know here recently and a lot of that has to do with the commitment that we have um with improving our infrastructure and so and then I think perhaps maybe we should consider you know Heather Sephio yourself and um you know details that go into that that show that and then comparison I heard I heard very briefly on the radio this morning with Gil and I was shocked. I thought I was on the wrong radio station, you know, that I was listening to and uh it was it was still boring, but uh but he did talk about some website that basically talked about our debt ratio, our debt in comparison to other cities. And I think you having that kind of information makes a lot of sense. And so that way there's a comfort level involved. Uh I mean I'm very happy and very proud and I don't take it as a dig. I mean, I I I'm very proud to have been involved in appropriating these projects and these capital improvements because we needed to get them done. And I mean, several of these I can name out in district three that there were there were those that we needed to get to and that was the reluctance to be able to move forward. And I think uh your your staff and your creativity got a lot of that work done and it's on the books. So, I I think I understand the consternation of of my colleagues. I just think that we need to all understand the consequences associated with looking at a different option and then if you guys could do that and your professionals you do a great job of doing as serio as you said you know this is the process and this is probably the the most cost effective and the most efficient and there's a lot of positive consequences associated with moving this way. All right thank you Councilman Hernandez >> just as a reference to what my colleague said that that website is brbt texas.gov gov. It is a bond review board. It shows all the debt of every single um local taxing entity that's in the state. And you can look at counties, cities, school districts. For us, it shows us for the end of 2024 of $1.6 billion in debt of combined revenue bonds and tax u uh taxpayer supported bonds or general obligation bonds. and then $841 million of of interest associated with that for a total of just under $2.5 billion that we owe from as a city. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilman. Uh, okay. So, we have a motion and we have a second. So, please submit your vote on item number 21. Did I think so? I don't think we voted. I'm sorry, but I had to step away. Did we have a motion in a second on the item? >> I move for approval. >> We did have one, but yeah. >> Hello. >> We'll bring up Yeah, this is a two reading ordinance. >> Yes, Miss Compass. What is your vote? >> Um I like the rest, you know, the council members have been struggling with this issue. Um but yes, of course on this uh particular issue, especially for you know what we're about to vote on, I I will support this. So yes, Okay, the motion carries. Okay, that takes us to item number 22 and that is consideration and approval of an ordinance authorizing the issuance of city of Corpus Christie, Texas limited tax notes for public safety vehicles and streets approved by the city council in fiscal year 2025 CIP budget. >> Thank you, mayor. This is uh the authoriz delegation authority to issue uh tax notes. Tax notes are a short-term maturity with seven-year maturity. Uh these funds would reimburse the city for funds related to the municipal court cell buildouts, uh 75 police marked units, uh three medic units for fire, uh dump truck for parks, and street developer participation projects. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh we do not have public comment on this particular item and so I will open and close public comment and entertain a motion to approve item number second. >> Thank you. Please submit your vote. Miss Compos I got distracted. I'm sorry again. What is the item number that we're voting on? It's item number 22, ma'am. >> Okay, I just drove in. So, let's see. You have a comment, >> Councilman Hernandez. >> Yeah, Peter, I remember when you got here that you didn't like how we were doing these um kind of like uh short-term loans for buying vehicles, >> right? >> What happened? Why are we still doing it? >> Right. So, when I first got here on some of the first agenda items, all of our vehicles, whether it was a heavy garbage truck or a pickup truck, uh we borrowed money to buy the vehicle. And where I came from, we um had a savings plan where every vehicle was cash purchased. And we're about 50% there. So over the past six years, we've we've moved in that way where each of our budgets, we're setting aside cash so that when we do buy a vehicle, we're not paying 7 to 10% interest rate. >> So in this case, it's up to 5% on this one right? >> Yeah. This one here, this is not for vehicles, but it's for roads and >> Well, I mean, you have vehicles on this one. >> Okay. Just a second. Let me look real quick here. So these are I think these are bigger vehicles that aren't in that replacement fund, Councilman. Well, these are 75 marked uh police units, three medic units. >> Yeah, that was right. So, these So, as I mentioned, 50% of our vehicles have are in this now replacement fund. These are not. So, the choice is you wait um you wait to buy the vehicles and pay as you go and um or not. And so we recommended in the budget to um to do the debt financing in this case because especially in the police uh when we added all those police officer positions uh we didn't have the vehicles for them to drive. So the choice is you don't don't have them driving or you buy the vehicles with a short-term note. So that's what we did. >> Well, I think the other option is to keep keep them in older vehicles. But well, >> no, they don't even have the vehicle because we added you know we added 51 police officer positions. This is these are brand new positions with no vehicle. >> Is this still still a lag time on acquiring these vehicles? >> Um I think we're just about caught up. Yeah. Yeah. But it still takes us a year once we place the order. It be just the way works for us. It takes us a year to get a vehicle. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And longer for some of the bigger ones. >> And the max interest rate there, council member, we're setting as 5%. >> Okay. Thank you. So that takes us to section L, our briefings items 23 through 25. Um, so Miss Compost, did she ever vote? Oh, >> I I did. >> Yes. >> Okay. How did you vote, ma'am? >> Yes. >> Okay. She So, for the record, she voted I. Thank you. >> Okay. You want to Yeah, she was looking. Okay. Are you going to show that vote though? Okay, great. The motion carries. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Item number 23 is a briefing on city proposed London area tax increment reinvestment zone tur potentially TUR number seven. Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council, Arthur Marquez with the Office of Economic Development. And the briefing today, we're going to talk about the potential creation of a tourist number seven in the London area. Uh the vision for this tourist is essentially a master plan community uh that will promote smart growth and include diverse housing options and commercial services. Uh we also plan to have enhanced parks, trails and public spaces to improve quality of life and with targeted infrastructure investment to catalyze and support sustainable growth. The uh process of creation of a tourist I know it's been a couple years since the last one created in North Beach. Uh the steps are here as follow and that is to prepare a preliminary project and financing plan. Uh for city council to approve the TUR at a public hearing. Uh for the TUR board uh board of directors appointed by the city council to have the boards of directors appointed by city council and for the TUR board to prepare uh and approve the final uh project and financing plan and for the city council then to approve uh said project and financing plan at a different meeting. uh the projects then at that point once the tax increment reinvestment zone has been created uh can come to the board and request um to be approved through their projects. Now just for clarity purposes um I do want to point out where the location of the tourist would be. Uh this is uh again based on the London area with Oso Creek on the north with uh Staple Street on the south and highway 286 just for reference. There are a couple of sites that um are on the east and the west side of 286, but again just for reference purposes. Here is the proposed outline of the tax increment reinvestment zone. And the map that we're using here is the future um uh future land use map. And again, this is something that uh has been worked on through the planning department. Now uh this particular tur would be the uh largest tur if approved um with an area of 4,600 uh plus acres and the proposal is to do this tur for uh at least or for 25 years uh starting with the year 2025 as the base year uh with the proposed participation from the city at 50%. the estimated uh taxable value at the completion of the tur we're estimating roughly about two to three billion and the incremental revenue over the 25 years uh with participation from the city and the county at 25 years uh and the college at 10 years we're estimating roughly about 140 million uh the participation of the city I mean with the county and Delmare of course is still in communication so this is still in discussion so I just want to point that out uh what is different between this tur and other potential tur is that uh this and I'm just going to refer back to this one. Uh as you can see the uh dotted red dash line is that uh majority of the um uh area is actually not within city limits. So the uh new proposal is that uh we create sub zones and through these sub zones uh we uh we as the city and the county would participate throughout the u the 25 years um as uh development begins within these uh zones. Uh these zones are dedicated here. Three of them uh one of them being uh well actually two of them being uh residential and one of them the along the 286 being uh commercial. The uh financing plan includes essentially two major expenses uh one of them being infrastructure which is the largest part uh which would be able to cover water, wastewater, storm water uh traffic and street improvements uh along with public parks and public areas. And as with any and all tours that we have and that you all run, uh, of course there is a fee for administr administration of the tur that includes, uh, staff time, legal time, and of course, uh, the different staff members from the economic development office. The uh, chapter 311 constitutes or allows the board um, creation to be up to 15 members. And here we have just uh, an example or at least a proposed uh, structure of this board uh, having seven members appointed by city council. uh four of them being appointed by the uh noises county uh three of them being appointed by uh Delmare and one of them being appointed by a developer that's also participating in the tur of course this is subject to change and can change uh depending on the participation from the different agencies uh this is just but one example uh the proposed timeline for this is of course we are here today July 15th uh where we are just doing the briefing um and the next would be the first hearing so um this would of course take place uh upon the uh the green light from city council today and uh can take place at the next meeting. Uh but it is contingent upon an interlocal agreement being uh finalized between another taxing agency uh preferably the county as the Delmare College uh can only go up to 10 years based out of their um internal uh policies. Uh the second reading of course that is uh to be determined based on the approval of the first reading and um again this is something that would require two readings from city council for it to be approved. Uh once the tur uh has been uh created then the board has to approve the project and financing plan within the board itself. This is something similar that we did on the last uh you know board that we have with Besi Village where they approve the uh project and financing plan and then this of course has to come back for city council for final approval. Uh the first reading of the ordinance uh then comes to you guys to city council for the approval of uh said uh project and financing plan and of course uh to finalize such project and financing plan does have to go again through a two reading process. Uh for that I open it up for any questions. >> Uh councilwoman vaugh >> the other tur how many years are they? >> Uh so all other tur are 20 years >> 20 years. So why why do we want to do 25 years? So this one would be 25 years because it is essentially vastly mostly open land. So there is no development and there is nothing to uh grow on. So there's a little difference between what is already existing. You know let's say for example in North Beach where where it already has development where this one uh we foresee that it'll take a few more years for uh development to actually begin occurring. >> Well you're committing to 25 years. You can always come back and renew it. So why would you I'm I'm against doing it 25 years. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but the rest of them are and most of this is outside of city limits. >> Correct. Yes. >> And so, how are we doing that? >> Yeah. And like I said, because it is vastly open land, um the development that would take place for the increment to begin growing, we won't necessarily see any substantial uh funding become available until roughly around year three, year five. So, that's the reason why. So, in the other ter when we do have the 20-year mark, um allowing it three to five years to begin growing that increment, it allows us to then have additional funds to reinvest for that infrastructure. So, that that's a bit of a difference. >> Now, I'm not against the TUR. I mean, we're getting we really need to figure out how much we're spending on TUR. We really do on all these TUR things because we're short money. So, we need to look at that. I think there needs to be a I think we need to have a a meeting on that and look and see what we're spending. How much money is going through all these turrets? Because what are we up to? Four. >> Five. >> We have seven. >> Seven. Good lord. This would be seven. I think >> this would be seven. Five. We have five. >> One though. Right. >> Right. >> One off of Greenwood. I think >> there's a total of five turs. Yes, ma'am. >> Active. >> I I would like to see what we're spending. And don't shoot me out there if y'all are in a turd, but I think we need to look and see what we're spending. Are we spending millions? Are we spending billions? We need to look at that because we're in a shortfall right now. >> Right. I mean the tourists do take money off the general fund and delegate, you know, relegate it to a section of town. It's a good economic development tool, but it is worth stepping back every once in a while and seeing how much is allocated. >> I hope that we can do that. >> We can do that. Yeah. >> Council, >> put that on the agenda. >> Roughly speaking, the the island tur collects about 6 and a half millions on a yearly basis. Uh the downtown about three and a half and north reach about one and a half. >> So that's how much they generate on a on an annual basis. But again, this fluctuates between >> and I get that, but I want to know how much the city's putting in there. makes a difference and and the overall picture we need to look at before we continue to keep adding turds and turs and turds. We've got some areas like the west side we've never done anything for but yet we are saying okay we want to do this area this area and they're not all for turds I realize that >> but still we need to look at it so Mr. I'm hoping we can do that. But I I do disagree with the 25 years. >> Yeah. >> Um kind of to piggyback on that, I think and and there was a conversation had Peter there and again I'm I'm I I have seen we have seen the value of a tur and there's a flip side. we are giving up, for lack of a better phrase, revenues that the city would have. I mean, that's just that's the way it works. But in return, you you know, there's a flip side to that and and and the investment within that boundary. It's huge. It is. But for me, we have no process, no rhyme or reason. Somebody could just raise their hand and say, "I want hers." And we say, "Okay." there's no there's no process. And so when you have different parts of town that have a strong voice and and they are heard because they're very organized and we love that it it helps us do what we need to do. But then you have other parts of town who don't and and they don't necessarily have that strong of a voice and and like you said maybe it's not a TUR. Sometimes we automatically think that a TUR is going to to be the answer. It could be bonds and and and I'm looking at Heather because we had this conversation with the the Westside Business Association and and that group of people because they are they really want to see a particular area improve and grow and there's there's not been um a whole lot of movement there and maybe it isn't the tur you know maybe you know it's it's other things but nonetheless for me it's the process there isn't a process. We literally have people raising their hands saying, "I want a turf." And and we just say, "Okay." And and and most of the time it makes sense. Most of the time it makes sense. But but I still believe you got to have a process because when you have a city that's growing and and we're constantly saying that. Um and we have tools that are just kind of out there for first come first serve. And then there's a point like now where you're, you know, we're going, "Well, hold on. when when is the last tur going to be the last tur now that's a little side note there and I agree and we'll put something on the agenda for for looking at it holistically to see what are the revenues being given up and what are what are the the the advantages as well um can you pull up the map I'm just curious about something here on on something you showed on the boundaries of the >> this one or this one >> yeah no that one >> so I was just noticing And I know this is a sub zone TUR, >> which is different from any of the ones we currently have, but I noticed that you've got, you know, the boundary is right on County Road 33. Doesn't include County Road 33. And it doesn't include any of those homes that are there, which I thought was odd because that's all uh wouldn't that give you the the foundation of the baseline of the tours? >> Well, not necessarily. This map that you see here is as I said uh based on the future land use and this actually does not follow the actual property lines. This is just based on you know where we think the type of growth is going to happen. So the red area, well actually I guess the the pink and the red area um which is essentially your commercial uh area is the area that we expect for it to to become commercial and uh while we're thinking about you know creating the tur we definitely want to have a mixture of both of them. Actually by statute we're required to have a mixture of both of them but um we want to have have a inclusion of both commercial and uh essentially residential. Um so again this is a mostly vast uh land area but through the planning department what they've dedicated here what they've shown here where growth is going to happen is that they under the we are under the impression that commercial would uh uh you know come along around around these >> right but but that whole area I'm referencing >> that's growth and and that's about that's that's wouldn't I mean wouldn't it be you would be capturing that particular >> property tax to start the tours as opposed to you know well I mean the rest of it there it's potential growth we we know there's going to be grow and we know there's going to be growth there but there is nothing there at this point and I I do recognize Mirabbella is you know that's the center point of this but why wouldn't we include county road 33 and those homes back there >> to help the tur move >> yeah this is definitely a bit of an arc really um simply because This, as I mentioned earlier, would be the largest uh tax increment reinvestment zone created up to date. And um if you can kind of take a a sample for reference, the the downtown one uh would be a little bit less than a thousand uh acres less than this. U so the growth in itself um is is a lot for it to occur uh in here within the 20 or 25 years. So as I mentioned like it being a bit of an art we kind of have to gauge it as to how fast we think the uh tax increment reinvestment fund would actually grow too and uh from there that's again how we kind of gauge uh the size of this uh tax increment >> but it still doesn't make sense but I mean you again you have an area that is already creating a base and maybe this was just you know you you guys sitting down saying well let's draw a boundary I I I have no idea how you do it. >> Yeah. >> But it just seems logical to me that you would include that area. >> And you're speaking of the uh northwest area uh on the left and right hand side kind of road. >> The homes that are over there on the other side of >> Okay. Yeah, we can definitely take that. >> So that that's not an issue. And wouldn't it help the tours a brand new tur in generating revenue? Yes. >> Sure. Okay. All right. Well, I you know, with moving forward, I know where this is just a briefing, but um to me it would make all the sense in the world to include that into the mix. And I know what's the status with the county. Are y'all still just talking with >> Yeah, we're still in conversations with them in regards to this both in participation and the interlocal agreement. >> And what are the quote unquote rules of a tours? Because before it used to be it must be a blighted area or there were there was a definition. >> Yes. So uh chap yeah chapter chapter 311 is essentially what constitutes or gives us the ability to create a tax and commemor. So under uh chapter 311.002 it's actually been expanded over the past few years and it now allows uh I'll read off the quote itself. it it now allows to be predominantly open or undeveloped uh land and because of obsolete platting uh deterioration or structure site improvements or other factors substantially impairing or arrest the south growth of the municipal or c municipality or county >> so it does not have to be blighted area >> it does not anymore it previously used to be but there's been added language that allows for a vast open area to now become eligible for a tur >> right okay and again I believe in tur and we set up you know a couple since I've been around, but >> um this is a good briefing and and good questions. >> Uh Councilman Hernandez, >> bless you. >> Okay, so the m uh I never thought I'd have a tours in district five for the most part and a lot of some of this is in district five and some in well the majority is in district five and then some of it in district three if it was annexed into the city. >> Correct. Most of this is currently outside the city limit. So I'm assuming this tur would require annexation of all this property. >> Correct. >> Otherwise we wouldn't be able to participate at all. >> Correct. And for the developer to benefit out of the tur they would have to. >> Right. Because we can't I mean it's based on a baseline and then any increase in value is returned back to the tur. Well if we don't have a baseline because we're not taxing it. >> Correct. >> Then it's it it doesn't really mean anything on our part. >> That's correct. So this so there will be a request for annexation along with the approval of this turds. Correct? >> Yes. >> No. >> Or we're not going to do an annexation. Then how are we going to how do we participate? >> So that is what the subzone concept is is that as those developments come in um there are subzones and those subzones will be annexed. You have to be annexed into the city to be eligible to receive TERS. And unlike our other tures, this is not a blanket contribution. The contribution will be by the development. So right now we do have one development which is um the Mirabella development which is coming in there. So that will be the first project that will be the first sub zone the county Delmare and the city will will base contra make their participation on that sub zone. That sub zone will be annexed into the city. You've got the larger tur zone that anything in there can be can be a subzone. And so we would go back to each taxing entity each time a development is presented. um they base their contribution on the value within that development within that sub zone and then you have your individual development plans per sub zone. So like the mayor was asking about why wouldn't we include other houses or already developments in there. It's because this is primarily to be able to bridge the gap between where we have development on the S, you know, on the OSO side and the development on the London side. We have a a blank in between the middle that does not have infrastructure to support the development. And so this is to create that infrastructure needed to support that development to help bridge the two areas of development. But it's not going to be we won't be the county won't be contributing until something is annexed into the city. At that point their contribution will begin. Our contribution will begin. We hope that Delmare or actually we hope that the county and Delmare will be joining in with us on this. >> Okay. You just made this extremely complicated because you're going to have different baselines for every time you have an annexation. >> Yes. >> Oh, >> I mean the base year will be set as of the creation of the zone. So each development will have their baseline will be at the creation of the zone. So whatever the value is in 25 and then the increment will be above whatever that baseline is. So, one of the reasons why we're looking at 25 years is that we know that we're going to have projects over the next 5 years that allows each developer to have at least a 20-year participation. The first development, we wouldn't necessarily participate at 25 years. We could contribute at 20 years. Um, and then the next one comes in say a year later, then that would allow them to have a 20-year contribution and so on. Wow, that's going to be extremely complicated financially in terms of determining your funding as you go through for the entire terms. >> No, because the contribution so the developer will be will contribute back based off the increment they create. >> Okay, I I understand. So, but if you have them separated and they have different baselines, how do you assign, you know, is it is it going to be everything inclusive in the tourist where you you spend money from each of the different >> No, each each area would have that their contribution would go back in the investment back into that area. >> So, they're like mini tur mini is within a big Yeah, exactly. uh do we need to make it this complicated >> because this is more of what we'd call kind of a speculative turds in the fact that this is not in the city limits yet and it is contingent upon annexation within the city limits and so trying so the the the in talking with our potential partners this was the way that we were proposing um because to the county's point all of this is already within their jurisdiction so they're they would be paying taxes into something that no one else is paying taxes into. >> Well, that that's what I'm saying. I mean, wouldn't it be easier to work out with the property owners to annex the entire tours into the city and have a single baseline that because most of it's a exempt currently anyway, right? So, they wouldn't be paying huge amount of tax. >> Then the city would be responsible for all the roads, all the drainage, everything whether it develops or not. then it would be funded through this tur >> but if there's no value there to do it um by doing this through the subzones you're pulling in things that are all are going to develop we know that the infrastructure is going to be needed for that development if we annex the whole thing in then we're responsible for all of the public safety responsible for all of the um drainage all of the roads everything that would happen within that versus just those areas that are developing and need the infrastructure for that development. >> Well, as far as I know, there's no ESD out there any or currently. So, we would respond from from our uh fire anyway, right? Um there it's currently just open land. I'm not sure how many police calls we would get out there uh other than maybe Church Unlimited that's there. >> So, I I I get what you're saying. And then then there's some infrastructure responsibilities we would have to take from the county. >> Yes. Also, we would not be able to it would have to be voluntary. We can't force annex. It would have to be we'd have to have all those land owners agree to voluntarily. >> That's why I said why wouldn't we have kind of gotten through that ahead of time. >> There's some complication here. And then you also have the contribution of being 50%. Yes. >> Most of the tours that we put in place were 100% at the beginning and then stair steps down at like the 10ear point to you know 10% every year after that. So why did we do it this way? >> Well, I mean I think in our philosophy is that we really should not I mean it very rarely should you ever participate at 100%. Those were decisions that were made prior. Um I think that a 50% contribution is more appropriate. That allows for 50% of the the increment to come into the city to help offset those services. Um if you set it at 100% then basically you're having development that is not paying for itself back for those city services. By setting it at 50%, you are receiving from dollar one um um income to be able to offset and help pay for those additional services that are being needed when that annexation. >> Yeah, but technically you're not in the TUR until you >> annex >> until you annex, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. And then uh have you spoken to the county and Delmare on this? And what what is the what is the temperature for them? So Delmare is interested. Um the county is interested. We're working through some of the fine details on that right now. Um but both have expressed interest in participating in this at the 50% or below um for the period of time. >> Okay. I I I recommend that you try and simplify this a little bit more. uh maybe have larger segments uh for annexation because this could be very I mean it's going to be very complicated if you have to segment this out every single time for single developments and then the TUR funding within that development is only for that portion of it. So this would be like uh TUR 7 A B C D. >> No, it would it would all be one TUR. You would have subzones. Um and actually the tracking on it I mean it >> just stated that right. >> Exactly. >> Subzone A, sub zone B, sub zone. Right. >> But it would I mean actually the it is not as complicated. I mean you do it off of the parcels. You know what's being collected on each parcel. Um it's just a tracking issue. >> Yeah. seems complicated to me and I'm pretty good about the details. It sure is. >> And this is not uncommon. Um we talked with um other economic development professionals across the state. This is something where um this is not uncommon to have these type of subzones where you have certain entities that participate in certain things or in certain types of development within a larger zone. >> Okay. And what's the alternative if we don't do a terms? What happens >> then? I mean we can leave this outside the city limits. Um and then you know we're we're struggling to try to either we're trying to re you struggling to get the um the proper infrastructure in place. >> So then there's possibility of other uh other services. I mean other um means to do this like a management district or uh >> and then we wouldn't necessarily have those in the in the city limit. So yes, you could come out here and create a mud, you could create a municipal management district. those would not be annexed probably into the city limits. It would sit outside the city limits. Um and that is a possibility that that the developers could choose to do an alternative structure like that. >> That's if we don't do a tours, right? Okay. Thank you. >> Sure. Uh we're going to go to Councilwoman Compos here in just a second, but this takes me back again after what you just said, Heather, and and again, I don't know who sat down to say here's the boundary and where it should be, but we're literally leaving out every all that land on the left, which is not going to be not developed, right? So, so all the land on the right is is inside this church, but nothing on the left of of uh 286 is. And to your point, if you're creating sub zones, then it would make all the sense in the world to say, well, sub zone 4 up up here up the, you know, where I was referring 20 33 and to the left or down the road would be a sub zone. and you would already start with a a a you know a baseline where the rest of it you're not at all. But but just as important is you know I don't know who who owns the land on the left of 20 of uh 286 and do you guys do y'all speak to the land owners or how does that work? Because they're left out and and that is going to fly. That that property is golden and we're not including it. And if there's no reason we're not including it, but yet we're creating, you know, this new tur or or pro possibly creating this tur, we could have a meeting with a bunch of property owners here saying, "No one told us. No, why did we get excluded?" So, there's that. Uh, Councilwoman Compos, >> is she on? >> Hi. Um, wow. There's that's a lot of information there. Um, very revealing, very u interesting as far as how we used to do these tours that we started, you know, at 100% and now this one seems to um at least uh be a little bit more, you know, equitable, you know, if there was, you know, the a good side to turns. But I have to speak out uh also for my district, you know, our district uh district 2 uh which encompasses, you know, uh you know, a lot of the older neighborhoods. We never um were privy to that because, you know, our city, our we're already locked in. So here we are supporting and supporting and supporting other turfs creating more or less like a donut is the way I see it. And so I think we do need a lot more information and um as to how we, you know, continue to to do this to ourselves and especially to us, you know, the older neighborhoods, um the older people that have been contributing for years and years and years and, you know, asking for simple things like sidewalks, you know, uh we're the ones that are getting left out. So, I just wanted to make sure that that we need to be just more equitable. I uh would I did not have a chance to meet with Heather. I I've been um out of town and I just got in. So, yes, uh I still continue want to continue to have those conversations, but yes, um I uh I'm not sure if I support this or but I just wanted to make sure that um that it has not been fair. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh Councilman Roy. >> Thank uh thank you. Um I got a couple one statement we were talking earlier about um just the efficiency and the cost and the budget in terms of managing these tur so you know I was thinking we have five tur in place right now what was the last one we did for Breeey village right >> correct >> so it really hasn't kicked off and done much right >> but one of the things I want to Peter I want to make sure that staff looks at is the fact that is there duplication of services here. If you guys have five different tur is there something and and I I do want to see when we look at the cost of the of the administrative part of the tours, I want to be able to look at that as a total. So, not only in each individual one and I know, but I I I would love to be able to see what we can do to try administratively to to um be more efficient. I think there are some efficiencies there that we're not currently tackling. Um, and um, the the other thing is, and I had a long conversation last night with um, I don't think he'd mind me saying his name, but Rudy Garza. We were just talking about tours in general. And one of the issues that we have in our city is that we're different than Houston. We're different than San Antonio in a lot of ways. and and and the fact is is that right now you can pretty much drive anywhere within our city within 25 to 30 minutes, right? Which makes a big difference because when people choose to live where they want to live, part of that decision isn't made based on their proximity to work. But if you're in a place like Houston and you have traffic that you have to deal with, a lot of people make that decision where they want to support that particular neighborhood because it's close to where they work and they're trying to avoid the traffic. If you work downtown Houston, you don't want to live out in Sugarland for the most part. We don't have that problem. So, we're in a unique a different situation in terms of the way our city is set up. Um, and so when we talk about these other cities that have multiple tours, I think a lot of that is based on the way the city itself is structured. Does that make sense? So my question is also who came up with this idea? Who said we need another tur who who came up with this? Whose brainchild was this? So, as we're getting new development in, again, one, >> excuse me, >> as we're getting new development in, uh, the Marbella that was proposed, uh, again, what we did as a group is we thought that this could be a an ideal situation where we are master planning the next development or the next growth of the city. So, we thought that this could be a great example of, you know, how do we make sure that growth happens in the right way. So, um, this is a a team effort, I guess you could say, as we're looking at the growth of the city. The other thing that concerns me, maybe several years ago, we went through this thing when speaker of the house was bonum when he was, if you guys remember, we had to rush um because they were trying to take annexation away from us. So then all of a sudden, we had to go out and try to figure out what was the ne next best place to annex and do that because we thought that that would be limited. I think Heather, do you remember that? So here we are laying we're doing a tours that I do believe is complicated and with these subsets based on the premise that we think that we'll have the ability to annex right but you know that one of the states I wish Ryan Scabbarek was here because I know one of the states pushes is to take annexation away at the local level. There's a lot of moving parts here that I think we really have to look at and we have to really understand is there a need to this because um again comparing some other cities I don't know if our city does this model make sense or not uh you know when you take a look at London is this supposed to prompt development is supposed to ex is it supposed to expedite development >> not necessarily expedite but rather because we are seeing so much growth in that area um again this was just simply an opportunity for us to be able to master plan that growth so that it doesn't get out of hand and just uh you know >> this is my opinion but I believe that whether we have this tur or not London's going to continue to grow >> and that is a true statement but again the the the proposal of the turf is to be able to increase that that level of quality of the development that is going to happen. So rather than it being >> might take longer. >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. >> So I mean there are merits. I do like the idea what council member Hernandez said is if we're going to do the annexation I'm almost to the point I think annex all of it at one time and I understand that you're saying okay well it's going to cost an increase in infrastructure but at the same time what does worry me is that we know what we're capable of doing right now if we put this in place we might get to subsection A subsection B subsection C and then this the state come in there and say no we're going to give the approval to mechanics. So that's just his food for thought, but I would like to definitely see we need to put our resources together and see how much money we're spending on administratively trying to handle these tur. >> Thanks, Mayor. So I'm I got a different take. Uh council members, um I don't I think we have to create an an incentive for voluntary annexation. I don't think anybody wants to be annexed. This is never going to go anywhere. This is a if not but for right. That's what the original the what the original concept is. If we don't create a TUR, it's not going to happen. If not for this no development. Now what'll happen? It'll be halfacre lots and 1acre lots and they'll do septics and then it's bad math. then we never have the ability to annex and create enough revenue to pay for uh the in the the the public infrastructure police, fire, and EMS that is necessary. I think this is needed. I think it's an opportunity to control is the best word I have, but it's, you know, it's 4:00. Uh but but to be able to help growth south of the OSO in a manner that's that's best for the community. you know, but if you can get more houses per acre, it generates more revenue, which helps pay for the infrastructure. Uh, and I'm okay with the sub zone. I don't I don't maybe I'm just missing something, but it seems seems like the right idea to me. And it's voluntary, and if you want in, then you volunteer annex, and then we don't have the issues. I don't think we would have the issues at the state that we might when legislation, pending legislation might pass. What what I what I um again I think we have I think we lose control of development southo if we don't do something um but what would the fees what would be the tur what what would use the money on >> and you've given that in the presentation just say it to me again >> give me some examples of how we would use the >> that's going to be on this slide uh the infrastructure and to answer an earlier question that you said you know what would be the incentive >> right I guess to my point water wastewater storm water that makes sense to me so This will be a way to fund the infrastructure necessary, >> correct? >> To to to spur development in a manner that we might have some control on, >> right? >> Uh and to happen sooner rather than later. And it would just that just seems I I I remember the 20-year by the way. That's because that was the only way we're going to get Packri Channel done. Even then, they were high-risisk bonds that thanks to some of our underwriters, they took the risk with us. But but I like the the 50%. I think that's the 100% that's how we did uh pack. I think this is a conservative analysis. I you know Kayla and I were just visiting. I think there's a process. I don't I mean if we need to have a conversation and to to affirm some sort of process that that we each entity goes each time we want to do a tour if we ever do another one. I'm okay with that. But I don't I don't I don't I'm missing something here. I think this is a way to spur and and and control the the money on public infrastructure that will create growth in the London area and I think it's good for Corpus Christi. Um I thought they do a lot of these in San Antonio. I thought that was one of the things that and and they're doing them in the valley now. >> Yeah. A lot of the major cities above us have substantial number of tourists. Each of them do. >> Okay. And and that that's anecdotal for me. I think I may have heard you say it. So, I think that would be great for all of us to have a conversation on who's doing it, how often is it done, do they do it for, you know, the same kind of same kind of reasons. But I I I I just want to close with if not but for uh and and I think this if this fails, if not but for then okay, don't do it. But my sense is this is what tourists are all about. If not for this type of of of mechanism, there won't be the development that we I think as policy makers and you all as leaders would like to see that generates adequate revenue to to fund the rest of that public infrastructure, police, fire, and EMS, uh, roads, streets, all those kind of things. So, I'm I'm all in. I I don't know what should be in and what should be out. I my my general sense is I don't I don't want your house in because I already get your revenue. So I don't I don't want I don't want your house in my tours. I want the vacant lot next to you. >> Um because if that can if this tourist can help fund development in that vacant lot, that's fine. So I'm a little different on you bring in a bunch of subdivisions. >> I Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. I remember years ago a big argument with a developer that, >> you know, he wanted the whole island. I said, "No, I want that tourist to be just as small as I can get it such that your your development spurs the growth all around and then the s the city gets, you know, 100% of that revenue." So, >> yeah, that's I am the reason we don't have a skate park. I don't know. That's not true. Anyhow, so I I that's my reason why I'm not a big fan of taking in subdivisions unless I guess if you brought it in and it created an opportunity to connect additional infrastructure to the next, you know, 50 acres next to it that creates another 50 houses or that would be 200 houses. Any I'm I'm supportive. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to get I just want to get that out. I like the idea. Thanks. Thanks Mayor. >> Yeah. No, thank you, Councilman. And I think it's it it cuts both ways. You you London is not that is the growth corridor. It it is not a blighted area. It isn't an area that we're going God what's going to happen to all that land. I can tell you what's going to happen to all that land. They're going to build all along that land and it's worth millions of dollars. There are people right now fighting over 300 acres. Who's the highest bidder? That is the growth corridor. So this TUR is not about and maybe that's the maybe that's the the difference here. Typically, we are creating interurs because we're trying to spur growth. And I understand what you're saying, Councilman Scott. We we are still spurring growth here, but it is not the same as spurring growth in North Beach or what happened 20 what, five or four or three years ago, you know, on the island, um or or whatever the other ones were. Typically, we are creating tours because it's a blighted area. We need help to to muster up development. London 286 and 43. Pick your county road. It's it's going to be developed just as you see it right now. Times 10 with or without us. No. I mean, hands down. Does that mean we don't want to be a part of it? No. But but this TUR is about it's about controlling the the growth. The growth is there. It's about it's not about in my opinion respectfully is not about the growth. The growth is there. And so if y'all are saying, "Hey, these new little sub zones, the little mini turs um are going to be created," then to me it makes all the sense in the world, but maybe I'm wrong to include the growth that's there. and and and and start that sub zone with a foundational baseline. Now, the flip side of all of this, too, is you're giving up millions of dollars in revenue. Is it worth it or not? Answer might be yes. Answer might be no. And and how does it balance out? And I think for today's briefing, this was great. I think we need more information to see that. You you did give us I think there was a number some numbers there. I think it was on this one of what the projection is >> and and so as a council yeah we've got to look at that and say okay we're going to give up you know millions of dollars that could go to streets that could go to our infrastructure but what are we getting out of it here? A lot it's extremely valuable and and that's where we have to make that decision which is it's it's a big one. Um, but I I believe in the tool. I do. Um, I just think that we have to consider all of it and remember that this is not about this is a I think you said it is controlling the growth. That's what this touris is for because it's it's going to be built up. No doubt. Uh, Councilman Scott, did you have a >> Yeah. Oh, I didn't have >> managing the growth. Much better word. >> Managing controlling managing the growth. Then I think the issue is that if this is going to go to water, wastewater, and storm water, then we're going to have to pay for it anyhow. And either you got to either Kayla and I are going to be arguing over, you know, bonds, you know, in the next year, or >> we're going to we're going to take that tur money and spend it on, you know, infrastructure, water, wastewater. And so I like that's why I like that idea because I think what you're seeing is growth around the nodes that have water, waste water, and storm water. And I think that's why you don't see growth around the other area because they don't have water, wastewater and storm water. And this what this right this what this tours could create. >> Yeah. I think the the terminology managing growth uh elevating the standard really um again the growth can happen but the ability to tap into the tourists would elevate that standard. Sure. So rather than having you know a you know 20 foot road you know you now have a 30 or you know in any of the aspects that the tur would participate in. So yeah, >> uh I would use the term of elevating the standard, >> right? >> Can I add to that, mayor? Can I add to that? And I don't know if Heather wants to touch on it some more, but um yes, this area probably will develop, but there's many tools a developer could use to include not being in the city. They could do a a mud, a municipal utility district, a PID. There's several there's several state enabling um districts that can be created that don't have to come in the city limits. And that's h there's one of the council created one down there on on old Brownsville Road. And so that that development will never be in the city limits until maybe 30 years. I think we can annex it. So this kind of this is for this tour is this is probably in my mind this is one of the things that is one of the best takeaways that it would these the district would be in the city and it would be it would be taxable to the city and then the city could have input on things like regional parks on where the fire station goes where the where the police sub police substation goes. So a developer can choose right now with with very little city consent development tools that don't put it in the city limits. And we know that we see it right now happening here. That's what's happened in Houston. A lot of Houston's developed that way. And so Heather and team have been trying to see how do we mitigate that. This is one way is bringing in a tourist that kind of says yes, we want this territory in the city and how we get there to turn an end to this point is that's to be determined. Do you do you peacemeal annex or do you have them all annex right away? But that's an important part. I don't know if uh we touched on it enough. >> Okay. Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. I think it's important um we talked about this earlier um in our island TUR meeting. >> We get into the habit of saying the TUR is for the developer when it's not. The TUR is reinvesting in an area. And so I'm from District 4. We know and love and support our TUR and and it's because it's a very strong mechanism to me a TUR is in effect that tool that the development group and the city come together and say let's come up with a product bigger than either of us that the city that the community will develop will will prosper through. And I think that what we've seen throughout numbers of TURS is areas that enter into a TUR and have one um approved. There are so many tools for infrastructure. There's so many tools. And I I'm glad that council member Scott, even though he stepped down, I'm glad that he changed that verbiage. It's not control, it's managing. It's, you know, I think the undeveloped areas are the lowhanging fruit. Those are easy ones to say. We need to add to our tax base so that in the future the city has the potential to grow. Let's let's increase this. Um so that's a lowhanging fruit. That's an easy one to get behind. Council member Compost on the line. She she made a mention that her district is already fully developed out. So that you know she was saying that there's a concern or she was saying basically she couldn't do a tourist type thing. However, there's a long list of provisions for TUR and I think what's appropriate is where you have the city in the form of the economic development branch evaluating what aligns with our master and comprehensive plans for the city. How do we get there? And then you have that fun job of getting to say where do we need to invest? What are the partners in the area? someone has walked up and said, "I've got this development. I'd like to partner with the city. Check yes or no." That's the process comes before we get it going or we don't. Inversely, there's there are the other areas less lowhanging fruit and that is how do we revitalize areas through this because blighted or deteriorated is another criteria for TUR. So, I think that that there's more room if that's something and I'm not saying go out and create one. I'm just saying Right. There's to the comment that says come back and look at what is our overall commitment in the TUR area. I think that should be a a component. What is the what is this? What is all the the force behind this beast that can do if there explain there's more options that this is in essence why we do this and and that there are options to increase that should that be a priority. Again, I'm not saying necessarily go do it, but it's there. It's on the table, that kind of thing. So, I to the mayor's comment and to Mark's comment a little bit, I do like hers. I agree with him, but I I would evaluate is there room to say while we're doing this now, is there more space to say, let's let's look at more areas? I'd like to have that conversation. I think I emailed you a little bit about that this week. So, I would like to see that and how does that relationship actually look here? Because let's let's let's look at the the whole picture while we're looking at it at all. Thank you. >> Uh, Councilman Hernandez. >> Okay. Just real quick, I want to touch on something the city manager said and I kind of alluded to it at the at the back end of my earlier comments. The state is continuing to limit our ability to annex. It seems like every year there's another, you know, they take another tool that we have. And so, you know, you have these developments that take very full advantage of all the things the city provides and they don't pay the the property taxes associated with what we have to pay for. Okay? So we need a tool and if this is one of the those incentives whether it's a PID or TUR or whatever it needs to be to where we can um entice that development to annex in the city we need to uh this is it's extremely important because we want those developments to have sewer. We want those developments to be, you know, um, a little more dense so you can have more value, uh, and revenue from from the taxes and spread that out amongst more of the population. So, it's important for us to include these tools into this into the consideration when we do this. We should we, you know, because those tools are going to be, you know, that's when when I worked on the PID policy, there was an element in there for annexation. Okay, it's not being utilized that way, but that's okay. It's just we want to make sure we have that ability to annex and create that, you know, uh that ability to bring it into the city. So, I think this is important for tourists to create the incentive like Councilman Scott had mentioned to bring into it uh into the city. We don't want to have the development outside the city in acre and halfacre lots because that's inefficient use of land. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Ardo, thank you for the um presentation. We appreciate it. And so, well, I guess did you say this was coming back for >> Yes. Uh it sounds like there's a general consensus. So, what we will try to do is finalize the deals with uh the county and Delmare and bring this for second reading. Again, this is contingent upon the uh actual >> uh participation from these uh uh from these agencies because we do would like to have an interlocal agreement uh before we bring it up to council. >> You'd like to have what? an interlocal agreement. >> Oh, right. Right. Okay. So, y'all are going to be working on >> Yeah. >> And maybe sending us some more information, >> correct? >> On this in the meanwhile. Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. Our next item is item number 24, and that is a briefing on the news released by the Department of Justice related to the former Global Spectrum LP, DBA, Oak View Group, uh, CEO Timothy Lieiki. Oak View Group matters involving the arena in Austin. Uh former CEO of Oakview Group, Timothy Lewiki, was indicted by the federal grand jury for violating title one of the Sherman Antitrust Act by rigging a bidding process to benefit OVG by persuading a competing company not to bid on the Moody Arena by promising them a subcontract if they refrained from bidding. The US Department of Justice entered into a nonprosecution agreement with Oakview Group LLC and they enter and also with Legends Hospitality to not prosecute their companies in exchange for 15 million from Oakview Group and a million from Legends their nonp participation in prosecuting Timothy Lueki or their participation in participating their ex CEO and establishing antirust compliance programs in their companies. Next slide. Okay. OV Group cooperated fully with the antitrust divisions inquiry and is pleased to have their their statement says there they cooperated fully with the antitrust divisions inquiry and is pleased to have resolved this matter with no charges filed against OBG and no admission of fault or wrongdoing. They say that we support all efforts to ensure a fair and competitive environment in our industry and are committ committed to upholding industry-leading compliance and disclosure practices. They say they're proud of the partnerships they've built and remain committed to offer exceptional hospitality and holistic venue management solutions and venue management expertise. They wish to provide uh value to to their venue partners, fellow service providers, and the communities and customers they serve. Next slide. According to their uh the antitrust division of the justice department, the indictment alleges that from February 2018 through June of 24, Lui conspired with the chief executive officer of a competitor to rig the bidding for the development, management, and use of a multi-purpose arena that was to be located on the campus of a public university in Austin, Texas. That was to be known as the Arena Project. Um what they're saying in more detail is that he he promised them subcontracts if they would choose to not bid. Um and they then chose to not bid. He then later did not give them those subcontracts, but that's that's beside the point. Um he's charged with a violation of section one of the Sherman Act. The maximum penalty for individuals is 10 years in prison and a $1 million criminal fine. Next slide. I'm not going to read all this um but I'm going to summarize it. AC in September 17, he informed colleagues that he had learned another venue services customer was v been bidding against us for the arena project and uh that was legends and he wanted to find a way to get the competitor uh some of the business to get get them to back down. And he said he would be more than happy about them not bidding but had no interest in working with them if they intended on putting in a bid. So in ex so he represented the competitor would receive their subcontracts in exchange for not bidding. They did not submit the competing bid. The OVG ultimately submitted the sole qualified bid and won the arena project. The department of justice has classified this as a violation of the antitrust act, the Sherman Antitrust Act. Are there any questions? Councilman Kentu >> is um OBG here today. >> No, >> no, they're not disappointing. >> No, they they had indicated they they they would not be, but I was kind of hoping they would send a rep. >> You were hoping they wouldn't be? >> We we were we were pro kind of hoping they might send a representative, but we understand the the the legal challenges that they're under. we understand why they might not send a representative because it's very soon after that indictment. They may feel they're putting themselves into a delicate situation. >> I just want to let the public know that, you know, in my stance, if I had the votes today, I'll get rid of them. Um, can you let the public know, uh, Miles, how much it will cost to terate terminate the contract? Yeah, I'm I'm I can't say exactly how much it would cost. We don't have a clear path to terminate the contract until 2027 when the contract is up because what they negotiated with us was a substantial investment into the the a substantial investment into the uh arena and the convention center. And in exchange for that substantial investment, they received a five-year um contract that was not terminable terminable by us at any time. So the >> is it safe to say it cost >> millions? >> The breach of a contract like this could very well extend into the millions of dollars. And I would not hazard a guess on what the creativity of an attorney working for that that side might be able to come up with in terms of the damages of such a breach. >> And um how much longer do we have a contract with them for >> until 2027? >> 2027 of January. >> Um I I can get you the exact month. >> It's in 2027, >> correct? >> We think it's around September time frame. Council >> September. >> Yeah, September. and to to um to give them notice that we're not going to renew their contract. When is when does that notice take place? Is it like 60 days before or but we would need more time to to find someone else. Correct. >> We would if if we chose to if we chose to consider termination, we would need to do those that the planning for such termination probably. We want to start planning for that at least a year ahead of time. >> Yeah. I'm just disappointed with them. Um, first with the naming rights. I think they screwed up screwed over the taxpayers. Um, left a lot of money on the table and um, and then this happens. And then not just that though, but they also kicked out a lot of small vendors. They're not working with other promoters in Corpus Christi or the surrounding areas. I mean, they're doing a lot of different things. And I really hope that this council sees that. And you know, I know we can't much we can't do much because of what's what the contract is. I I I think the city needs to do better with contracts because I mean this should be a loophole to get rid of them, you know, and they talk about the morals about Thomas J. Henry, but look at him here, you know. It's kind of um crazy, but um thank you. Appreciate it. >> Thank you, >> Miles. Thank you. And we appreciate the um the presentation on this. I think it's uh safe to assume that we're going to be watching this closely as it unfolds in terms of what's happening in Austin. >> We will we will monitor this closely and when we see updates from the US Department of Justice, we will um inform the rest of council. >> Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Our next item Oh, Councilwoman Vaughn. >> Yes. Thank you. I just want to say I think it's really concerning their business practices and that's the reason we brought it back for to the council is so that we could discuss it because we're very disappointed in how they have conducted business. I've been getting calls and this is nothing not a reflection on the Hillards because I trust them but people are saying did they rig that? Did they rig it? That's the questions being answered out there. I don't think the Hillyard had anything to do with that. I just want to state that. But it is unfortunate that we're doing business with a company that has this reputation and we're kind of stuck right now because of the contract. Could we fight it? Yes, we probably could fight it. Do we want to? It's probably not. We shouldn't be doing that right now, but I'm with Councilman Ken too there. It's very frustrating and how we don't know how much they've really contributed yet because we don't have the audits, which I know that we're getting them. I think we said in a couple of months we're going to be getting those and that is not their fault. They are giving financials every month that the city needs to know that. But it is concerning, very concerning. I think everybody up here agrees with that is the reason we brought it back. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilwoman Paxton. >> Thank you, Mayor. to to echo council member Ku and vaugh it's kind of brought to light several other issues and it is concerning it's difficult for us to in the one ear hear so many allegations of you know why to or not to enter into a um partnership with someone based on a faux reputation and then you know within in a couple of weeks this comes to light and I recognize that you know that was an individual that was hired within the company but nonetheless that was a top member of that company and so it is disheartening to work with them you know it's it's a little bit frustrating that for months since I've been here we've said can you evaluate your policies on allowing in catering groups can you look at expanding how you handle the nonprofit arena Now having the community reach out to me with some very concerning choice of entertainment genres that are coming on the horizon to a familyfriendly advertised event and event center. It's it's a lot to sit back and not have an action item in front of you if that makes sense. you know, just to put it in that perspective and I and I understand that it would be incredibly costly at this point to council member Ku's last comment and what you basically said is said is fact for us to venture a severance. However, that's the position that we're in. And so it's the time right now and in my opinion to make it clear that we need to start really cleaning it up. You know what I mean? We need to we need to in some professional manner be able to communicate that we're there's some displeasure here with how this business is going and and and keep that in in mind and and I do look forward like Carolyn said to the financials coming because we we're still waiting on those too. So I I'm with them. This is this has just become a whole lot of drama for for this business. But >> okay, thank you. Councilwoman Councilman uh Kentu >> Heather, how can we address our issues with OBG360 here locally with local promoters, promoters around South Texas who want to do business with OBG3, but they refuse to do business with them. um to bring back local vendors, caterers to to cater food there. Who who was there before who how we could not charge as much for nonprofits to use our facilities. I mean, we don't have a very big arena. I mean, I think people, local people could really run that arena. Um, you know, and and uh I just how how can we do that? do have to get a committee together, figure this out, write a list of questions, you get the answers. I mean, I tried calling them a few times and they don't return my phone call. So, um I guess they're upset with me, but it's okay. Um but uh um I just what can we what can we do to address these issues? Because I do have a handful of people who are upset with them and they want to do business with Corpus Christi. They want to bring shows to Corpus Christi and they want to bring entertainment and I know they bring entertainment. I know they they brought Brooks and Dunn. Um they brought some other ones are pretty good. But you know they it's not something happening every week in there and I know these promoters could bring stuff. How can we how can we how can we tell them to do stuff like that? Do we have the right to tell them like you know what can we do? How can we do it? >> So um these are really good points. I think you we've heard them echoed over and over. Um I think that will also be part of what they're going to be bringing forward August 15th. They will be presenting and providing an update to city council. Okay. And so I'll ensure that. >> So they will be here. >> Yes, they will be here. >> I'll be in my best behavior. I promise. >> So um let me work with them to get some answers to your questions on the nonprofit one. That is something that within this upcoming year's budget for 26 um they are um asking to implement a program where we would set some funding aside to be able to help offset some of the cost for nonprofits um if they want to hold their events there. It would be kind of a grant program. Um you know because one of the things is that you know you had mentioned the naming rights and money on the table and things like that. you know, when we provide discounted rates for different groups, then that also is a little bit of money on the table. And so, this provides a way to be able to set specific money aside that can be utilized to help um subsidize some of those nonprofits that maybe feel like the price range is a little out of out of their range, but still make the operations whole. Um, so we are working on that to bring that forward for consideration for the 26 budget to have that fund set aside and kind of a grant program from that. Um, but I will relay your concerns. I'm sure that um, you know, you they've been expressed before, but >> I'm sure they're watching, right? >> Hello. >> Um, but we will have them um, address some of address those when they present in August. >> Okay, perfect. And then, um, do you have a time frame where when the contract will be signed for the naming rights? >> Um, no, I haven't gotten an updated timeline on that. I know that they're continuing through negotiations. Um, but I think that's also something that they can speak to in August. Okay. And um I know this is my last chance to talk. I'm thinking what else? Um um Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Sure. >> Thank you, Councilman. Thank you, Heather. Uh our next item is item number 25, and that is a briefing on the Inner Harbor Water Treatment Campus update. All right. Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm Brett Van Hazel. I'm the director of the program management office charged with managing the Inner Harbor Water Treatment Campus. We're going to do a quick briefing on uh it's two things really today. I'm going to do a quick project status update. And then we're going to jump over to some of our uh other project team members, Kiwit uh GHD, and Frieza Nichols. And we're going to do a a update on the near and farfield modeling they've done. But first, I'll I'll uh briefly touch on the uh council um item that came before us on June 24th of this year. Uh where we modified a resolution. Um I'll do a a quick status update, walk through the timeline, give you an update on the demonstration plant, and then we'll jump into the near and farfield modeling. So, on June 24th, we had a a council item that was brought forward to amend um an already approved resolution from June of 2024. And the amendment um that we made uh last June was to change the city manager's authority and require him to follow normal procurement uh procedures. So, the intent of that action was to uh basically bring back all future contracts and amendments that exceed $50,000 back to this body for approval prior to actually executing either that contract or amendment with Kwit. Now, right now, we have um one amendment planned for the end of this month that will actually be a design amendment. It will take us from approximately 10% design to 60% design and it will also include the development of the guarantee maximum price which we will bring back to city council at the end of this year for approval. We do have a couple other uh potential early work packages. I've I've listed those here on the slide that we will be bringing back at future dates. Now, uh, we talked about this last, uh, council on June 24th, but I just want to highlight it again that, um, you know, there are potential impacts with this adjustment and as as the uh the lead for this project, I have an obligation to to put these amendments together, uh, be comprehensive, and then bring them back to this body for review and approval. So, assuming that I've done my job and I bring it back to this council and uh we do a review and it gets approved because you feel like it's complete, there's no impact. We'll be able to continue moving the project forward. Uh and there'll be no schedule delays or or cost delays as a result of that process. But if uh we come to this body and we present an amendment item and maybe there's a recommendation to adjust something in it, maybe we're not okay with some of the recommendations or the cost uh or the scope and we push it to say another council meeting or or we just don't do it all together. there will be uh potential impacts to the job and I've listed some of those below uh to in to include potential loss of key technical personnel um additional costs associated with uh inflation and escalation. And that one's really tied to the fact that if we're unable to deliver the design and a guaranteed maximum price to this council when planned and we push construction out to the right, uh there's a potential for both of those things to occur. and actually they're very likely to occur. We also have the contractor uh could potentially put risk in their cost because of the uncertainty in the decision-m process if they don't know how long they may be idle uh for work to include design or construction efforts. They're going to account for that in their cost. Uh that's that's just a normal um consideration that they have to take into account. And then also again if we delay this process the end the end product the final delivery of the project will continue to be pushed to the right. So our final delivery date uh is at risk. Uh we do we do understand the intent is to uh enhance the transparency that we've already provided and we appreciate that and and we understand it. So, uh we are going to continue down um this path and we'll bring all future amendments to this uh council for review and approval. Just a quick reminder, we do have three phases to this project. Phase 1 A uh is complete. Phase 1 B is currently in progress. So, we are currently working on design efforts. Uh we're working on the early work packages and also the pilot program. Uh and I mentioned pilot program. Uh the demonstration plant is currently uh under construction. We're about 10% complete. We do have some of the uh site development going on. We're starting to receive some of the equipment and I have some slides a little bit later that'll uh show some of that. Again, as I mentioned, we are planning to come back at the end of this month with the uh design amendment, which will be again to take us to 60% complete design and a development of a guarantee maximum price. And then just another highlight, we are looking to receive the 30% design smittle in September. And um we can um present the details of that a little bit later um this year. So, I know over the past couple months there have been a number of questions about the intent of the demonstration plant and the um near and farfield modeling. So, I just wanted to highlight the demonstration plant here. We'll actually talk a little more about the intent of the near and farfield modeling later in the presentation. So, just as a reminder, the demonstration plant's purpose is to demonstrate that we're able to um provide clean drinking water through the process. So, um uh what I took here on the screen is really just a snapshot from some of the regulatory documents that have been approved just to remind council on the intent. But at the end of the day, when we put this demonstration plant on site and we start operating it, the intent number one is to show that we're able to take that seawater and produce clean drinking water. But it also affords us an opportunity to go through and look at different uh reverse osmosis membranes, ultra filtration membranes, optimize the system performance, look at chemical usage, etc. So, it's going to help inform us on what the final plant will actually be uh be able to do, how it will perform, those type of considerations, and then we can take the information learned from that to better our design for the final plant. So, just quick update on the actual demonstration plan. We did start construction in June. Uh as you can see on the right, we we have started putting equipment on site. We have our trailers in place. We've started uh receiving the generators. We've also received the process equipment that's currently being stored in Engleside on Kwitz property and they are working on uh additional uh installation requirements for each of those elements. Um and later, probably later next month, we'll start to actually deliver that to site and start interconnecting everything. So, we do have the erosion control that's in progress. Um the discharge water line installation is also in progress. That uh water line will go from the port property where the plant's going to be placed out to our Broadway wastewater treatment plant. And then lastly just mentioned we're doing a lot of site prep getting it leveled out um and ready to receive all the equipment. So we are going to have some uh f future council briefings. We're going to do at least twice per month. We're going to actually do three this month. So, I'll present uh on the 22nd with the uh main topic on the 22nd will be the presentation on the cost model and then uh the following uh council briefing will be on the 29th where we'll do the presentation of the design amendment. Um and along the way we'll continue to do updates on the demonstration plan and design progress. So the um we're going to transition to the near and farfell modeling. Uh we do have some other uh key members here to do this presentation. We have Eric Sprinkle with Kiwit. He's the uh design executive. We have Chris Ben Chris Benjamin from GHD. He is Kiwit's uh uh modeling consultant. If you remember, they were here in March of this year when we did our last near and farfield presentation. And then we'll also we'll also have Dave Buzzan who is a senior coastal ecologist and environmental scientist with Frieza Nichols. He'll also be uh participating in this. So, uh, and just to again remind everyone, this is a somewhat of a continuation of our March 25th council meeting where we talked about the near and farfield modeling, um, and and what the intent was for this project, um, which again, um, it'll go into more detail in this presentation, but this is a continuation of that. We told you then that we were going to come back and present the results. uh over the past couple months we've been talking about the limits of the model. So this will just be a uh regurgitation of some of that that we've been presenting and discussing and this is going to show you the results uh again within the area that uh of the ship channel where we said we were going to present and uh it's a it's a good presentation uh great results and uh so now I'm going to let Eric Sprinkle come up and get us kicked off. It's all you buddy. Mayor, city council, it's good to see you again. So when I was here back in March, you know, and since that time, there's been a continual amount of discussion, commentary, publication communication everything in the world that I've seen or read in regards to what is the type of modeling, what is the topic of modeling, what's the scope of modeling, why are we doing modeling, who's doing it, and for what reason. Our goal really today is to present to you what the current model review results are at this point based on the efforts that have been put in by an outstanding project team to date. So when I stood here before I told you that the use of modeling and performing modeling for specific design reasons um is a very very important part of our engineering process you know and whether it is the desalination treatment plan itself whether it's the characterization of the water intake whether it's the characteriz characterization of the discharge all of those things holistically have to be taken into account in order to design this facility. Um, excuse me, I just saw it pop up. There we go. In order for it to be reliable and flexible, but it also that it has to adhere to the permit requirements that have been given to us by the state regul regulators. So at that same time in March, we stood up here and we talked about the definitions of what modeling really is and what are we doing as part of the Kwit GHD team for the Inner Harbor Water Treatment Campus. And we really kind of broke that down into two things and we said that those were the two areas. They all had different lenses and they all had different goals. And so as you look at the screen on in front of you, the nearfield is the first one. And really the near field modeling is all around the focus at the discharge associated with the discharge area. And its real sole goal for us is to be able to truly to design the discharge diffuser in order to be able to give the proper distribution that's necessary to be in compliance with TCQ's discharge permit requirements. Flipping to the farfield model. farfield model really extends the envelope outside of the near field. And what it does is it extends that out to and to include a footprint that includes the water intake structure. And the purpose of that is to give us a better understanding from the discharges as well as all of the rest of the environmental conditions and that will or will not make a difference to the inlet water quality that's predicted for this facility. But its true goal is for us to be able to design the plant facilities to meet those modeled intake characteristics and to ensure compliance with the TCQ water supply permit. So these farfield models, these near field models, they're detailed calculation results and they give us the scientific and mathematical confidence that for us as a design builder to advance our designs and to produce ultimately the project deliverables that are necessary for the job that are delivered as a stamped and certified by a professional engineer for the state of Texas. So what did the model results come up? What did we get out of the results at this point relative to our stated process objectives? Well, item number one, item number one is the resultant of our near field model. And what that tells you is in our near field modeling, our calculations and our uh simulations have resulted in the fact that we believe that we have an optimized and much more optimized diffuser design than what was originally the diffuser design that was in the TCEQ uh permit. And so that we're very very confident in that this facility will meet all of the TCQ permit requirements. So item number two is the resultant of the farfield. And what did the farfield tell us? The well calculations and um simulations have resulted in us to have a much better understanding of any impact environmental andor the discharge upon the conditions of those conditions at the plant intake. and that we've confirmed that our treatment plant design tolerances are all and can be met. And so based upon the creation of that very very sophisticated dynamic model that we'll talk about here in the coming slides really supports number one and number two. But what I also want to be able to say is that this model based upon the domain for which it was looked at was able to give us an eye look at what's going on on the farfield edges or far edges of that domain. And really that specifically gets to the harbor bridge. And so by evaluating the dispersity of the salinity and understanding the actual ecology of the naturally occurring species that are in the channel and in the bay, we were able to conclude in number three that we demonstrate no adverse effects to the Corpus Christie Bay based upon the operation of the facility. Now, those are significant positive results for the project from our design as we stand right now. And what I want to do is invite Chris Benjamin up here to share with you the in the ins and outs and how this model was developed. Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Mayor. And thanks, council members. I appreciate your time. I apologize in advance. I'm going to go through a lot of very boring information. So bear with me. What I'm going to do is go through the modeling basis. So you're all familiar with the core mix model that was undertaken for the permit. Both freezer nickels and TCQ ran corem mix to come up with the zones of dilution in the initial diffuser concept and the basis of the permit. We used that as our starting basis to help optimize the diffuser design and complete nearfield modeling. We then used another program called Mike 3 FM to undertake farfield modeling across the extent of the Corpus Christi inner harbor. So coremix is a great model in the near field. It's great for it runs quickly. It's great to have a look at a number of a number of ideas, a number of scenarios very quickly. So when it came to the diffuser design and optimizing that, we used it so we could run a whole lot of different options very very quickly and come to uh some quick conclusions. and then move on to the farfield model. Corem mix has a limitation though in that everything is steady state. So anything that you put in the salinity, your background currents, flows, ambient conditions is all steady state. So the salinity doesn't come to equilibrium as a plume of salinity does out of a del. And that's why we used mike 3 to do the farfield model. So, Mike 3 is a three-dimensional flexible mesh model. And I know that sounds crazy, but what it is is basically a stack of Rubik's cubes. Imagine if you fill up the the inner harbor with Rubik's cubes and do calculations through each of those little cubes. That's what it does. It's really important to do it that way when you're simulating plumes because plumes move vertically, horizontally across three dimensions. So, that's one of the reasons we use that. And it's uh it's a model that's been used again and again for diesel plants and other discharges into bodies of water over a long period of time. So when we put our model together and you can see some of the mesh there that I'm talking about that's a a graphical representation of the of the cubes we did. So you can see there's quite a lot of them and those extended down in eight sections throughout the entire depth of the the ship channel. as well. We also took into account all of the different entities that were discharging and intaking water along the channel. We used information from the permits and also from the reports to the TCU to quantify the quality and the quantity of those discharges and intakes. We also understood that there was some cooling water interactions as well. And we did take the Noasis Bay Energy Cent's maximum and minimum flows in at 183 and 326 million gallons a day which is far in excess of anything the diesel plant is doing by volume and we also ran a sensitivity analysis along that which takes into account the v potential variations they could have on any particular day. We also included Corpus Christi polymers. I know it's not operational yet but it is potential to run at some point. So we had we took into account the potential interaction there. Not only the dissalination but also the processed waste water and also the cooling water they might use. I'll go to the modeling basis next. So what we did was we took into account the bethimemetry of the channel. So we took that from a number of different and we understand the channel gets dredged and it changes. So we took data from a number of different sources including the port of Corpus Christi and also the national oceanic and admin uh atmospheric administration data too. We had a look at sea level and temperature and we got that data from the Lexington the Noah Lexington station. We also had a look at wind data. Now there was wind data available. We found a more accurate source of wind data was from a European model that actually projects data hourly uh at a quarter of a a quarter of a degree for latitude and longitude. And we also included from them temperature uh humidity and also shortwave and longwave radiation. And the reason that's important is because the significant heat exchange between the surface of the water, the air temperature that affects the water body. And when you've got a solidity plume that's in three dimensions, there's potential for stratification. And we wanted to make sure that we included those dynamics into our model. And I apologize that was heavy, but it's not going to get any better, unfortunately. So the next thing we did was validate our model. So we we created a representation of how the water moves in and out of the inner harbor and we wanted to make sure that we were correct. So Noah has a station at the western edge of the inner harbor and we compared our water levels and also the water flow with that and we were within a mean absolute error of under 2 cm of a water level in our trial runs. And we also got some ADCP data from in front of the Flint Hills facility and we correlated water flow and water velocity in every direction against that and we had a mean average um error of under 3 cm/s. So we're fairly confident that we modeled it. We modeled the inner harbor fairly accurately. Now I'll go into simulations next. What we did with with the CMIX models, we created a more efficient diffuser. So, we took that diffuser and we included it in our mic model. And then we ran the plant over I can't tell you how many scenarios we ran it over over the 30 MGD production process at different rates of recoveries at slightly different production rates and with different scenarios. And we ran the model over a whole year, an entire calendar year. And we ran it at 30 30 minute intervals. At each of those intervals, we had multiple iterations, 10 or more. And we ran those at eight different depth profiles. We also ran them with multiple intakes and discharges as they occur. And we ran at 50% 95th percentile solutions. This model was that large it was taking our modeling computers 5 to six days to process for each run. And we ran this multiple multiple times. So we put a lot of effort into this. And I go through all that extremely undertaining information just to give you an understanding of how much effort, how much data and the level of care that was taken into this modeling process. And the modeling process resulted in us having an understanding of the salinity across the inner harbor. We were able to characterize characterize the variations in salinity at the intake and the purpose of which was to optimize the design and not short circuit the plan. We're able to have an understanding of what the salinity is and the variation and how it compares to ambient as the water enters Corpus Christi Bay. And we're also able to optimize the diffuser. As I said, Eric and Dave are going to come up and talk about the specific data and the numbers and present you with some graphs so you can have a look at the hard numbers. Well, thank you for your time. >> Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it. there's a reason why he did that and not me. Okay. Um, but I hope that I hope that presentation gives you guys a an understanding and a confidence level to the amount of effort that we've put forward in order to make sure that we do this thing right from day one. Before we go into the results, I just wanted to go through really quickly and provide just a a a reference point around the TCQ permit before we talk about nearfield results around the diffuser. You know, the TCQ discharge permit really establishes a objectives at three major mixing zones. What's shown on the screen right now are those three and because just wanted to give you a perspective what that really looks like. The first really mixing zone that we're talking about is the zone of initial dilution. By definition, that is actually the first place that the water discharges from the plant into the channel. The initial dilution happens at that point. for spatial recognition. That is a 50 foot radius circle from the diffuser which in this picture is shown in that bluish purple color. Give you an idea of space. The next one as you move out is a little bit whiter and that is the aquatic life mixing zone. Again, for spatial recognition, that's a a circle that's at 200 ft from a radius perspective as a circle out. That is in the darker green area. The lighter green area is the largest area and it's the last area that we have to that we are uh modeling around and that is the human health mixing zone. That one is defined at 400 ft from a radius circle outside of the diffuser. So the discharge diffusers got to demonstrate effective dilution across each and every one of those. And we continue to work with TCQ as we continue to move the job forward. We will be in continued conversations with TCQ on how do you monitor it? What is the monitoring plan that goes along with the overall operation of the facility? But when we think about the jets and we think about what's going on, um there's a lot of things to consider before you get as you look into optimization, you know, and when you look at a diffuser, there's some things that I want you to think about. Things are stuff like are the jets of water that are piercing out from the diffuser, are they at a high enough velocity in order to pierce through that lower standard current that happens in the bay? You've got to be able to create a turbulent environment. Are they at the right angle? Are we shooting water at the right angle? Are we spacing out the ports optimally so that they actually don't interface with each other, interfere with each other? Those plumes when the second they start to interface with each other, actually decrease efficiency. That's not what we want. And we need to look at the orientation of the actual uh predominant current flow so that we're actually discharging water into and against that current flow that's coming in in order to increase mixing. So I want you to visually think about this. Put two buckets in front of you. I want you to they're filled up with water and we're going to add a little Dawn soap. If you took out a hose and you poured it like this and it's just pouring into it, what type of mixing are you getting? What type of bubbling and foaming are you getting? You're really not. But if I actually take a hose now and put a nozzle on it and I fire it into that bucket of water, now what does it look like? What's the foaming gonna happen? What is the turbulence that are going to happen? What's the mixing that's going to happen? That's what we're searching for. That's the visual that we're going to search for as we continue to go down. So, I'm going to move to where the diffuser design is. The initial core mix model that uh that Chris talked about is what was established to have the TCQ permit requirements that predicted dilution was at 19 times dilution factor. Okay. So said differently, for every one gallon of discharge concentrate that we put out there, the mixing zone is taking 19 gallons of ambient water around it and creating a big turbulent mixing zone. It's at 19 times. So applying what GHD has done across the world internationally as well as what they have modeled in the state of Texas and and utilizing the power of the model that sophisticated model that Chris was so detailed in providing you that definitions for we've been able to optimize that diffuser design to be now 29 times dilution factor. So that went from 19 to 29. That's a 50% increase in the initial design of the diffuser. That's 50% improvement. That tells us right now and gives us a high level of confidence that when we compared ourselves to the TCQ permit that we can meet that permit with no problem. What it also does is it's a great design advancement for the project because what it also does is it allows us to directly contribute that performance in that area out to the far field and how it contributes to the overall big picture. Now, as Chris described, that was a significant effort and it continues to be a herculean effort every time you want to change and run a new simulation. But that hydro that highly dynamic model considers so many different inputs and so many different influencers that res is the true result into modeling salinity. So for each of those design pre those design goals that I listed to you earlier for particularly one and two which was the near and far and looking at the support of what the project tenants were we have to properly model our salinity. We have to be environmentally responsible. We know and the graph's up there in front of you. You've seen it a number of times. The bay is dynamic. There's a significant difference in the salinities that you would see at the time of year in whatever climate condition is there. But it's our goal that we also need to understand what the that the natural species may be adaptive, but that we cannot impact that by adding the del from a reliability standpoint. We've got to know that the design of the plant is taking on the modeled intake that is necessary to give you a reliable plant for years and years and decades to come. And that what we also want to know is that from a goal, our goal is to be able to produce 30 MGD at an appropriate range and that the design aspects and the design tolerances are necessary for us to make sure that it's as affordable as possible. But in the end, our overall salinity model confirms that we are in the operational um area for which was equivalent to the expected natural ranges. So now I want to pivot your attention to the intake. So we're not at the discharge anymore. We've moved from the discharge over to the intake, which is about 1,800 feet away. And what I've showing you in front of you is what our now Farfield model has predicted for what is happening at the intake. So the graphical representation in front of you right now is the salinity at the intake at a design depth 32 feet below the surface of the water. So as you look at this, the vertical axis is the salinity or named as PSU. Think about it in another reference point is parts per thousand. along the horizontal axis is time. So Chris had mentioned earlier that we were able to do this in a one-year representative one-year span, but we ended up taking 30 years of data and were able to representatively put a one-year span across the bottom. Okay, so when you look at it, the simulated ambient condition is what's in gray. The simulated conditions considering all of the inputs that are going on environmentally as well as the discharge is what's in blue. And what you see is an expected increase of the salinity around the intake between 1 to 2 and a half PSU or parts per thousand above the ambient. There's a couple takeaways that you can take from this. The first thing is is what generally what I mentioned before that optimized diffuser design and its intense mixing capabilities is contributing to minimizing any the impacts that are coming from the discharge to the intake. The other thing it's done is we've been able to confirm that our ability to produce 30 MGD capacity up to an inlet salinity of 40 parts per parts per thousand is fully capable. When we see salinities that are above 40, we don't shut off. We just turn down. The plant is still online and is still producing water. Is it going to produce it at 30 MGD? No. Because you have a permit that says you can't do that. But what it will be able to do is it will be able to continue to run even at above 40 parts per thousand. Now, I'm going to move your attention to the Harbor Bridge. When we talked about item three before, we said that we had this opportunity to see out and we got to see out at the Harbor Bridge. Again, the graphical representation in front of you is the same horizontal and vertical axis as I described before. And what it also does is to tell you at it's also at a depth of one foot above the bottom of the interface between where the Corpus Christie Bay is and the Harbor Bridge. Again, ambient condition is gray. The modeled condition of the output is blue. So, in many circumstances, as you continue to look at that graph and as you stare at it, it's negligible in between the it's nearly on top of each other. In most circumstances, they are on top of each other, which means that there is a negligible difference between the two lines. But in general across the way the model would show that we are less than 0.5 differential in salinity at the harbor bridge above ambient. That's another significant positive result. And I want to be able to invite Dave up here in order to really share the ecological significances of these results. >> Thanks Eric. Mayor Council, this graph has two points that are important to me. One is that it shows there's practically no difference between salinity with del and salinity without del. The other thing it shows is the salenity, the upper salinity tolerance for these important commercially and recreational species uh that live in the bay and in the inner harbor. And the dots show the upper salinity tolerance for these different species. And white shrimp, for example, have a salinity upper tolerance of about 40 parts per thousand. The important part of this is that if you look at the salinity generated during del operation, you'll see that it goes up to about 38 parts per thousand. That's about two parts per thousand lower than the upper salinity tolerance for white shrimp. And so we see these other species have higher salinity tolerances. And these are adults. Well, what about juveniles? Hart Research Institute did a study in 2021. They looked at 8,000 samples Parks and Wildlife collected over 30 years. And their their purpose was to see if they could relate the presence of these species to salinity. And what they found was they could not use red drum, black drum, southern flounder, or spotted sea trout in their analysis because there was no apparent relationship in the data between salinity and the presence of these species in the bay in in the samples. What they did find with the species they looked at is that the factors that were month, temperature, and water depth were actually more important in telling you where you would find these species than salinity was. So, what about laral forms of these species? We know that almost all these species uh spawn in the Gulf. And as the larve grow and they migrate into the bay, we know that they're looking for the nearest marsh or seaggrass bed they can hide in. If some of them reach the inner harbor, we also know that they're going to be swimming up near the surface and near the shore where they're looking for protection and they'll be far above the location both of the diffuser and the intake. This this is part of the regurgitation that uh Brett's uh mentioned at the beginning. One of the things we did about six years ago is we created a bathtub, what's called a bathtub model, and it's a way of looking at all the major inputs and outputs of water that go into a bay or another water body. And in this case, a technical term is it's a mass balance evaluation. And so we looked at the major um factors including evaporation and tidal exchange at the Gulf between the Gulf and the bay. And what we found is that there are factors like evaporation. Evaporation daily evaporation is 600 million gallons per day. That's like having eight del facilities taking water out of the bay. But in this case, that water is going up into the air. It's leaving all the salt behind. In the lower left hand part of your figure, you really see the del operation. And what it's doing is it's taking water out of the inner harbor. And about half of that water, a little over half of that water is returned to the inner harbor as brine. And in this in the figure, it's called concentrate. The remainder of that water is fresh water. It goes to homes and businesses in the area and most of that water is returned back to the bay as treated waste water. The result of this analysis uh indicated that the impact on salinity in the bay would be about 0.6 parts per thousand increase in salinity or less. And this analysis compared with our uh evaluation of the salinity tolerances of the different species gave us uh comfort six years ago that it was reasonable to proceed with looking at del as an appropriate uh approach for the city to investigate. at least three different efforts including our mass balance effort uh had been done. two modeling studies funded by the Port of Corpus Christi. And the the bottom line for this slide is that all of these studies uh showed that there was no significant increase in salinity in the inner harbor or the bay caused by del. TCQ looked at these modeling studies and our BA mass balance equation and they looked at other available data. They did their own analysis and their own analysis was had similar results. It showed that there would be much less than a 0.5 part per thousand increase in salinity in the bay uh resulting from this from the del process. As a result, TCQ dis uh determined that the del would not violate water quality standards either in the inner harbor or the bay. Because of interest in this process and it being relatively new, the delegation of authority to issue permits uh comes from the Clean Water Act uh through the EPA. And this was an unusual case in that the EPA decided it was going to also look at the data and the models and evaluate whether or not the water quality standards would be met. And the EPA's analysis uh they concurred with TCQ that water quality standards would be met in the bay and in the inner harbor. And then we have on the far right we have the results of the GHD model that show that at the inner harbor the impact of the del facility would be on the average less than 0.5 parts per thousand going into Corpus Christi Bay. And if it's so low going into Corpus Christi Bay, our conclusion is that it's not going to significantly impact salinity in Corpus Christi Bay. Thank you. So to wrap it up, I think in conclusion, what you can see is the extense extent of the significance of this model has been able to give us a number of areas of confidence. The first one is is the permits can be met. Secondly, the treatment process is designed for the intake requirements for this plant in order to reliably deliver 30 million gallons a day and that we have confidence that there is no adverse effect at the impact of the Harbor Bridge and the Corpus Christie Bay as Dave talked about. I appreciate all of you guys' time of listening to that. you got to go through the high high education side of it and you got to listen to me just kind of dumb it down. But I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you very much for the presentation. I we do have a couple of questions uh or a few questions and we do also only have a few minutes before public comment is to start at 5:30. So, I'm going to take uh as much as we can. Um we're going to recess for five quick minutes just to kind of reassess ourselves and get ready for public comment and then we're going to have to come back. Yes, sir. So, Councilwoman Paxton, >> thank you, Mayor. Thank you to the teams for this um very detailed presentation. Um I know that time is a topic right now. So, I will try I I have a lot more questions than we have time for at this point in time. My main interest is I think I'm speaking for everyone here but absolutely for myself having the technical minds here is important because I have zero interest supporting any project anywhere that's going to jeopardize any of our water. I know we're about to hear from a lot of community members, our neighbors who have different opinions on different projects and I'm glad that they can do that. But I want to make sure with these technical minds that we can ask the right questions. I realize our time is limited to do that though. So we may have to ask some of those in the next presentation and I don't know if they'll be present for that or not. So you'll have to help us through that. My main one of my bigger questions on the technical side is about this topic of hypoxia. Does your model reflect um there was a a a publication done by Heart Research Institute that even um even with the diffusers that there could still be an issue as far as those plumes from the discharge site. What I'm what I'm interested in is preventing that hypoxia. Could anybody speak to that question? And then the um the second question, how was the exchange between the bays depicted in the model and what information was used? >> So uh Rebecca, do you know do we have the WebEx up right now? Is it okay? So Jason Cochland with Frieza Nichols uh can talk to that. Um can you uh Chris, can you answer her the question about the interchange? >> Mr. Cochland is on online. It's um by phone. >> Okay. Thank you. Go ahead, Chris. You answer that. Jason, >> uh All right. As far as the interchange with the bay, we were very conservative and how we did that interface. So, what we did was we assumed the plume wouldn't or the the salinity wouldn't reduce at the edge of our modeling mesh and we assumed that all the water entering from the bay would be at the same salinity that the model plume was. So, it was the extreme conservative edge. So we were saying that uh when Eric presented that graph comparing the ambient to the um to to what the salinity is when you include the inner harbor in the model that's how it takes that that's how it takes that modeling extent into account. >> Okay. And was there anything in your model as to how long you anticipated that flume to hold its integrity? >> We didn't we didn't model that. Um we modeled it to equilibrium and ongoing over time. So because the plant's going to operate continuously, it varies throughout the yearly time. So that's why we have the the yearly time step at 30 minute periods. >> Okay. And then um >> question. >> Go ahead. >> So Jason, are you on? Can you uh answer the councilwoman's question on hypoxia? >> I can. Yes, sir. Let me know if you can hear me. >> Yes, we can hear you, Jason. Go on. >> Excellent. he's with that Dave presented on the salinity increase at at the Harbor Bridge really speaks to that. Um so Dr. Ben Hodgeges um who's written a lot about the the concept of hypoxia identifies a lot of risk factors um that really have to be in play for a discharge like del concentrate to result in hypoxic conditions. One of those is that your stratification has to be very significant, but it also has to be persistent. So that means it's a really strong stratification. And stratification is, you know, if you put oil and water in a glass, you can see that it's two separate layers. If you have a lot of mixing, that's not the case. But what we wanted to make sure of and one of the things that Mike 3 does really well and Chris explained this is um it gives you an idea of what that stratification is by giving you salinity changes at different depths. And so the the slide that was presented that showed almost no increase less than 0.5 ppt but usually almost no increase in the bottom salinity shows that we are not persisting or or having significant stratification and that's one of the major risk factors for hypoxia. So especially in the far field we don't feel like there's that risk factor. We also know that our discharge is going to be really high in dissolved oxygen. I think that's something that we've covered a little bit in the past is that we'll discharge essentially super saturated concentrate where the dissolved oxygen saturation is is basically as high as it can get probably 10 to 12 parts. So with with the farfield modeling results that GHD presented especially there at the Harbor Bridge knowing that the stratification will not persist and it's not significant um we feel like that really answers the mail on hypoxia. Okay, thank you for that information and in the interest of time um is it possible or or is there an estimated day where we can see the copy of the farfield model in its completion the actual documents? >> So the >> like the the results of the modeling like the the study results >> so the study results for the effort performed by Kiwit and GHD is actually going to be in a design deliverable. It's going to be a design for the diffusers. Now we can uh we have talked about maybe producing information similar to what you saw today and we can show you when the modeling is all done. Maybe we can share the findings of that in a uh a report format. Um but the model itself is intellectual property of GHD. So we we will not be providing that because what they're doing what they're doing is providing uh a design effort and the final deliverable is a design of the diffusers. >> Okay. I know we have this topic coming up. We'll revisit it. There's time for us to send emails, make phone calls, get clarification on that item, but in the interest of the meeting, I think we'll just move forward from there. That's my question. >> Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman. Okay. So, it is 5:29. We're literally going to take five quick minutes. >> Are they going to be here at public? >> Yes. Yes. We're going to continue this. Yes, of course. Yes. So, I have y'all everybody's names down and we'll continue the questions on Del and then continue to move forward with the agenda. If you'll give us five minutes, we'll come right back and then we're going to start on the list of public comment. So, we're going to recess five minutes. Thank you. If everyone can please uh take your seat if you have one. I We have some seats up here, don't we? Reserved. Are those reserved, >> Peter? Or no? No, they're not. >> Resved. >> There's some seats. If anybody wants to sit on this very front row, uh you're welcome to. >> Okay. Uh let's see here. Yes, sir. >> Don't be scared, >> Councilman. Uh, can you >> I just want to say one thing. If you see any of us going to the back, we're still listening to you guys. We have TVs in the back and we have audio. So, just wanted to throw that out there because I'm going to be getting up quite a bit, you know. So, um, just want to let you guys know. Thank you. >> You're not going to take a nap. >> No, I'm not. I'm listening. >> Okay. Just making sure. >> Okay. So um before we begin I want to um well first let me start with this. So we this is a very huge change this this public comment um period as you all know. I think some people might like it and appreciate it and others may not. That said it is what it is and the majority of the council uh voted to move this in this direction for now. Um, I say this because I noticed there are quite a few people who have signed up to speak on an item that was on the agenda today. Um and and the intent based on what the council passed last week was for agenda items, public comment on agenda items to be heard during that item when when we're discussing that item on the dis at 5:30. Public comment was intended to be for any city related non-aggenda items to be spoken on >> non-aggenda action item. Mayor >> non-aggenda action items. And so the afternoon or 5:30 and after was for non-aggenda action items and any other city related business. But I noticed there's quite a few people who came down here to speak on some agenda items. So today, I'm gonna allow that because you're here. This is totally new and I know it can be confusing. Um, and we're going to go ahead and do that. Moving forward, we do have some changes coming. I I can tell you that more changes coming to public comment. Um, because of the items that exist uh on the current agenda that we have to go back to after hearing. Um, I think we have roughly couple of hours of public comment this afternoon. So, I just want to let you know and and we'll let you just kind of get used to if you want to speak to on an agenda item that would be during the council meeting when we hear the item. If you want to speak on anything else city related, non an item that is not on the agenda, that would be at 5:30. Okay. So before we begin, I want to remind everyone that our core principles of openness transparency and inclusiveness guide our actions, and we aim to achieve them while respecting our city council policy, which has been in place for 30 years. Public comment serves as one avenue for communication, but it is not the sole method. You can also reach out to your members of myself or your members of of council by way of phone calls, emails, and even scheduling an in-person appointment. With that said, we're going to proceed to public com or the 5:30 public comment keeping in mind the importance of decorum and adherence to our policy. Um, Mr. Rristley, would you please uh go over the meeting rules of decorum? >> All citizens must be courteous, polite, and respectful of one another, including the city council and city staff. The mayor and council members shall be referred to by title and or title surname. All remarks must be addressed to the mayor and city council and not to the council members as individuals. Citizens are only permitted to speak on city related subject matter. Speaking on any non city related matter is prohibited. Loud, boisterous, profane or obscene language or behavior is not allowed. Citizens must refrain from any disturbing noise, demonstration, or other act disrupting to the city council business. >> Thank you, Mr. Risley. And when you come up, if you'll please state your name and the city in which you live before beginning your comments, that would be much appreciated. Citizen comments are limited to three minutes, while non-resident comments are limited to one minute. A visible timer positioned near the city secretary's desk will assist in managing that allotted time. Residents of Corpus Christi will be given uh speaking priority over non-residents. And if you have a petition or any relevant information, please prevent it to present it to Miss Weta and she will distribute it to us before speaking. So with that, we will start with Miss Anderson. >> Yay. And I have some slides. >> Yes. I was ready. All right. See, make sure I know how to work this. All right. Ready to go. My name is Gail Anderson. I live in District 2. And thank you, Mayor and Councilman, for pushing these water projects forward. And special thanks to Councilman Woman Vaughn for being our water champion. There's been a lot of crazy hyperbole about the uh STWA discharge into Baffin Bay. So I wanted to share my common sense observation and this Jesus said he who has ears to hear let him hear. So the first observation is SDWA discharge is 10 million gallons a day. That's 14th,000 of the volume of Bath & Bay. That's a thimbleful literally SCWA discharge over a year is 2.5% of Bath and Bay. Still a small amount. Observation number three. Baff and Bay is typically hypers saline with salinities over 35 parts per trillion while STWA discharge is estimated between 8 to 12 parts per trillion TDS. Heart Institute said low TDS brackish water discharged into a water body with higher TDS may be beneficial to these bays through dilution and flushing. Observation number four. Hypers salinity on bay fish hurts fish spawning and survival. Causes physiological stress. Reduces growth and reproduction. Increases susceptibility to disease and mass mortality. Observation number five. Fishermen complain when salinity is too high because it hurts fish spawning. Fishermen complain when salinity is low because it reduces size of red fish. I've been hunting and fishing since I was 5 years old. I hope you can see the humor and uh the irony in that. Thank you. Observation number six. Balfam Bay has historically experienced high salinity swings from 10 to 70 parts per trillion. And somehow mother nature has adapted. Observation number seven, SCWA discharge alternatives. If Balfin Bay is not acceptable, there's always the coastal bin bays and estuaries has already expressed an interest in creating wetlands with the discharge. And of course, there's disposal wells. Observation number eight, Corpus Christi has a 40-year relationship with SDWA, which should create some kind of trust factor. Observation number nine, 7C is a public company, 30 years experience, couple years with Alice, over well over 20 uh diesel plants. Observation number 10, the city model shows our western supply will be empty by April of 27. Harbor Island, actually Inner Harbor, sorry, not complete until August of 28 or after. Ah, so we need another water supply as soon as possible for Inner Harbor. Sorry, that was a typo. Observation number 11. City can approve the contract while they still pursue the project. >> Thank you, Miss Anderson. >> And the environmental impact. Thank you. >> Thank you, Samuel uh Frier. >> Good evening, council. Um Mayor, I'm Sam Andre Frier live in district 4. You know, several weeks ago, I was standing in this very place and I was asking you to post a copy of the of the Ten Commandments here in the chambers. I quoted from ex Exodus 20. And I'll just give you a little bit of what I said. Then Yahweh said to Moshe, then Elohim spoke these words, saying, "I am Eloh Yahweh your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourselves an idol or an image of anything that is in the heavens above or in the earth beneath or water under the earth. You shall not bow yourself down to them or serve them. For I, Yahweh, your Elohim, am a jealous Elohim, visiting iniquity of the fathers on the children on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my mitzvah. After the Ten Commandments, it goes a little further. I didn't say this, but he he says that Yahweh spoke to Moshe or Moses and he said, "This is what you shall tell the sons of Israel. They shall make no other gods to be alongside me." >> Mr. Frier, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but how how is this related to the city? >> Could you stop my time, please, cuz that happened to me last time. If you let me get to the point, mayor, I will get there. >> Okay, let's let's >> Yeah, I go about 10. >> We'll give you five extra seconds. I'm >> about 10 seconds. I'm lost. So anyway, so going so the audacity to have someone put the ten commandments there is because corpus Christi means the body of Christ, the anointed one, the son of the most high God, Yeshua, Hamashiach, Jesus the Messiah, the God of Abraham, Yes, and Yakov, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the creator God who established all things, the God of nature. And in fact, for someone to have the audacity to think about having someone to pray from an to an unknown god, to put it on the schedule, to pray for the city council to another God, it's a like defiance to the most high God. And the thing about it is, and when I look at it, our nation has Judeo-Christian foundation. That's the foundation of our nature. In fact, Oxford, there was a a study in Oxford and it's from the Holy Bible influenced how the Bible influenced the founding fathers and Oxford University like all the other university started as theologia theological universities and biblical universities until they went woke and secular humanistic. So here a political scientist did an extensive survey on American political literature from 1760 to 1805. He reported that the Bible was cited more frequently than any European writer or any even any European school of thought approximately one-third of the literature citations. The book of Deuteronomy alone was being more frequently quoted than anything else. Why? because 98% of the founding generation were Protestant Christians. This is why the Declaration of Independence says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. They're endowed by their creator with certain rights, but among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Our nation is Judeo-Christian." And thank you very much for interrupting me. God bless you. >> Yes. Thank you, Taylor Garcia. Okay. Good evening, mayor and members of city council. My name is Taylor Garcia. I live in district 2. I reside in Corpus Christi. We can all agree on one thing. Water is essential, but how we secure that water matters just as much. Not for today, but for generations to come. I am here to talk about the discharge potential going into Ba & Bay. So, what's being proposed here? Discharging brine and chemical waste water into Baff & Bay is not just shortsighted. It is reckless. This is not some lab experiment. It is a living, breathing ecosystem. And once it's disrupted, there is no going back. You're not just risking environmental damage. You're threatening an entire way of life, a local economy, and a cultural legacy. I see some of you rolling your eyes. Um, this is a hypers saline base system. It is unique, very unique bay system. I've had the pleasure of fishing it for many, many years and hopefully many years to come. Dumping any bay, any brine, any wastewater for that matter threatens a collapse of a delicate balance that has taken many, many years to form. You can't mitigate damage like that. Once it's done, it is done. We're not asking for miracles. We are simply asking for the bare minimum. Let me ask plainly, there is no sound science to support this decision. There is none. There is no hydraological modeling, no ecological risk assessment, no independent environmental impact study done either. Nothing but vague promises and conflicting claims from entities like 7C's group and even some local officials. Meanwhile, the overwhelming evidence contradicts all of these points that have been made lately. We're being told that the discharge is safe. By whose standards? Based on what research? There is none. There is all but contradicting evidence. and it is in plain sight. The citizens you represent who are watching very closely are not okay with turning Baffin Bay into a dumping ground for corporate profit. I've built my life around this region. I've fished these waters for many years and hopefully many years to come. I've contributed to this economy and I've benefited from it. I live this issue and I'm far from alone as everybody else in this room is. There are responsible alternatives. Pipeline disposal into the Gulf. While it might be expensive, that is the best route. We do not need it in Baff & Bay, nor we do do we need it in the inner harbor. Um, there's also deep well injection, evaporation ponds, recycling brine back into the brackish waters that it does come from. There are a lot. I, as a concerned citizen, am able to come up with these very simple alternatives. Crazy. Other regions use these methods. Why don't we deserve the same protections? Is the health of our bays and well-being of our communities worth less than a company's and local politicians bottom dollar? On behalf of myself and thousands of other voices, I urge you do not move forward with any decision until a full independent environmental impact study is conducted by thirdparty keyword third party scientist not with vested interest. Rushing to an August 24th deadline without due diligence is more than irresponsible. It's a slap in the face to the very people you are elected to serve. This is not leadership. It is a dri agenda driven negligence. >> Thank you. Okay. So, let's let's let's get everything cleared up right now because we've got a long way here. So, if you'll please refrain. That's part of the decorum. There's no clapping, no yelling, no screaming. I know there's a lot of emotion. I get it. Believe me, I sometimes I want to join in, but but we can't. And this is it's a business meeting. We got to get moving. Please respect your three minutes because we have 54 55 people or more signed up. And so, everybody wants to get home to your kids, your family, or maybe some food, I don't know. But we still have to go back to our our our um agenda and complete that. So please just res I'm I'm asking please let's not I I want to work with y'all. I get it. But don't No, I do sir. I do. But respect the rules of decorum here. There's no clapping, no yelling and all of that. Let's just let's just keep it going because we've got a lot to cover here and I respect all of your opinions. So with that, we're going to go with David Rousey next and I'll just call the next few people so you know who's up. After David Rousey, we have J.R. Bacherstad, Robert Landig, Jason Hail, Mariah. Oh, no. We She already spoke, right? Is that correct? Uh Wendell Williams, and then David Lobe, Mr. Rousey. >> Uh mayor, members of city council, my name is David Rousey. I'm a fishing guide and a real estate owner reside in district 4. Let's start with something we can all agree upon. We need water. That's not in question. The majority of the people in this community are not against desalination. What thousands of us are against is being used as guinea pigs in an experiment that could devastate our environment and our economy. You are being asked to approve a project that would discharge brine and chemicals into a fragile enclosed bay system on a hope and a whim that it will all just work out. Let me be very clear. There is no scientific evidence that shows the discharge will benefit Baff & Bay or the Laguna Madre. In fact, every study and all research contradicts the claims made by 7C's Water Group in Clayber County Judge Rudy Madrid. They are asking you to trust them without an environmental impact assessment, without hydraology modeling, without ecological modeling modeling, and without any clear idea of what could happen if something goes wrong. This isn't risky. It's reckless. Our base systems are not just water and fish. They represent a $4.2 billion economic engine for the state of Texas. And 1 billion of that is right here in our own backyard. Think about who depends on all of this. All of tourism hotels restaurants tackle shops, marinas, boat dealers, fishing guides, not to mention the thousands of people they employ and contract to support those services. And do not leave out real estate values in your tax base. So I ask you, are we ready to jeopardize all of that for an economy? All of that, our economy, our environment, and our community because a private company doesn't want to consider safer, more responsible disposal methods due to the cost and profit. There are other options for proper disposal. Pipelines to the Gulf, deep well injection, recycling the brine back into the brackish layer from which it came, or evaporation ponds. These are standard practices elsewhere in the world, but here in South Texas, it seems we're always opting for shortcuts because we all know proper disposal cuts into time and profits. And frankly, this begins to look more like backroom politics and sound policy. If this project moves forward, if this project moves forward as is without independent scientific review and transparency, be prepared for the public to ask some tough questions. Who benefits? Whose pockets are being lined? and who on this council is actually protecting the people they were elected to serve. Let me also say this city's presence at the 7C's ribbon cutting didn't go unnoticed. To the community, it looked like a done deal. That act has raised real concerns about transparency and who is benefiting who in this fasttrack process. Your constit constituents ask you to please consider the long-term downstream consequences of your vote. This is not a decision that can be made without thorough and proper vetting and we know that has not been done in this rush timeline. On behalf of myself and thousands of others in this community, do not take action or cast a vote until a full environmental impact study of Baff and Bay is completed by independent scientists. Do not proceed until all open meetings and the single source agreement issues are fully addressed. And realize that the August 24th signing deadline is not only rushed. It is irresponsible. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rousey. and and a statement of fact. It is not a done deal. It is not a done deal. And and one rep one councilman there um being a part of that groundbreaking did not and does not represent this entire council. >> I understand that. But just look say a lot. >> I hear you J.R. uh Bockerstep. >> Go ahead Councilman Hernandez. >> Okay. Statement of fact. There was uh members of CCW there uh and uh part of our and Ryan Scabbaric from our uh government affairs office was there as well. >> Yeah. >> JR Bockerstep. >> Hi, good evening. Thank you. My name is J.R. Bacherstead. I'm a resident of District 4. I live here in Corpus Christie. I'm here to advocate on behalf of the Inner Harbor Desalination Plant. Um the things that I want to point out um and these are things that I know you guys have all considered many many perspectives. So I'm going to say some things that likely you've heard before but perhaps not. Um the first thing I want to point out is that it's drought proof. Um we live in a situation where we go through boom and bust cycles with our water sources regularly and this happens and has been happening for decades. I feel it's the best preservation of local control of our water source. And then last is growth of local economy. Talk about drought again, the perpetual bust and boom cycle of our water. We see flooding in the Hill Country that eventually comes down in this direction, but not all in this direction. We've seen the impacts of water issues throughout most of Texas. I feel like we like to think of this as a local Corpus Christie issue, but I assure you the folks in San Antonio, the folks in Austin are not thinking of it as local. They've been competing for water with each other for years. They've gone, the city of San Antonio has gone to the north, they've gone to the east, they've gone to the west, and what remains is us to the south. When we talk about water as a local issue, and you talk about the city of Austin, the city of San Antonio being competitors for that, think about this. We are the last straw before the ocean, before the Gulf, before the water is saltwater. You look at San Antonio in the last 30 years, their population for the metropolitan area has increased to 2.6 million people. That's an increase of 50%. Here locally, we're closer to 10%. But if we think that we're going to win a fight with San Antonio or a fight with San Antonio, I think that you're wrong. I used to live in San Antonio and then I moved down here a few years ago. I love this community. I think the people here are outstanding and I want to see this community be prosperous. But the reality of it is when San Antonio needed power, what did they do? They built a power plant to West Texas, they came down here and bought a power plant here. So if you think they won't come down here looking for water, I think that's a mistake that you'll regret. Talk about the economy. And I know that that's tough because this is a very expensive project. But ultimately, when you look at the growth of the economy, 38% of our local population is 45 or older. 15% of our population is 15 to 24. What does that look like when you add 20 years to that? I think it's very important that we find ways to add jobs to retain our population. When I leave my work and I go to down to towards Leopard to buy lunch, I drive past a lot of houses, most of which are occupied. Everywhere I go around this city, I see residential, I'm sorry, commercial properties that have been vacant for some time. We have a hole in our economy that will not be fixed if we run out of water. If we run out of water, we're going to compete with the folks to the north. We are not going to have options left. We're going to be buying it from them and we're not going to have a population left. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. uh Buckerst. Robert Landig, >> is Robert here? Robert Landig. No. Okay. Uh Jason Hail, waiting for the slides. Sorry. There we go. Okay. Uh Jason Hail, Corpus Christie. Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, council members. Today I wanted to share some resources on water projects in the area. Everyone may not be aware of them, so I think they'll add some context to today's discussion. First up is a statement on groundwater delt institute released a couple of weeks ago. I think it's important because the city and STWA are working on brackish RO plants, both of which could have negative impacts on the bays and streams that they discharge into. The recommendations are to do hydraologic modeling of the receiving waters, to do ecological modeling to determine impacts, and to do to monitor biological communities after operations begin. That way you can measure how they are being impacted. I believe in sciencebacked solutions. I believe that we should protect our natural resources and I believe that this applies to seawater diesel as well, not just groundwater. Right now, the city has only done some of part one so far. See, sorry. Okay. Yeah. Uh, next is H statement on marine del from 2020. It mentions how it would be more difficult to meet salinity targets in the bays if Brian from desalination like in the inner harbor were significant enough to interfere with salinity patterns in the Noasis Bay. Now, we just heard from QIT GHD and um the city and no one said anything about the Noasis Bay. It's all about the Corpus Christie Bay. Noasis Bay is important. Um, for anyone that doesn't know, the no inner harbor is connected to the Noasis Bay through a power plant. It moves enough water to replace the entire bay within a month. And the intake is basically right where the diesel plant's intake is. And if you remember what Eric said literally just 30 minutes ago, he said the solidity increase to the intake is going to be one parts per thousand to two and a half parts per thousand. And so, um, that's a lot. you know, we send fresh water to the Noasis Bay to meet salinity targets. And so I did a little bit of math. Basically, bay water is a mixture of seawater and fresh water. So if you calculated it out, um, a salinity increase of just one part per thousand would be enough to deprive the Noasis Bay of over 9,000 acre feet of fresh water a year. That's over 7% of what we send to the bay on average through releases. So how are you going to mitigate that? Are you going to send more freshwater releases? If so, that would be a net benefit of 22 million gallons a day instead of 30 million gallons a day, which is a huge difference. Uh, last year, CCA opposed the Inn Harbor plant, stating that the Corpus Christie Bay system is already salinity stress and that the plant will exacerbate salinity levels. They recommended for the city to move the intake and the discharge offshore. And here is the city's uh brackish RO project. And if you look at the bottom left, says brine disposable uh brine disposal, three deep injection wells, but now they're looking to discharge into the surface water instead at the tidal segment of the Noasis River. >> Ran out of time. Thanks. >> Thank you, Mr. Hail. Wendle Williams, >> mayor, city council members, my name is Wend Williams. I reside in District 1. My point of what I've heard of what everybody was saying about back days before everything that's happening with the solidity and everything that's going on. Well, from 1960 to 1973 is the tank that leaked and killed all the fruit of life in Hillrest. When I'm talking about the fruit of life, I'm talking about palm trees, honey suckle plants where you had hummingbirds and bumblebees come to pollinate. Also in my backyard alone had an orange tree, grapefruit tree, plum granite tree, peach tree, lowquat tree, grape vines and it's gone. So anything that's going to be happening was what's been going on is really kind of sad. Now two decades ago, 20 years ago when things coming about the bridge, they said, "Well, well, how can we do this? Can we give these people the residents enough money to buy out?" I hated the term buyout because if you wanted to make Hillrest a billion dollar industrial park, pay like you weigh, you'll make the money back. But when you give people pennies, you're going to have shortcomings. And it's a proven point because they had representatives from refineries try to come tell us, "Oh, Hillrest residents had an identity crisis. I should have let the 85 year old woman put a three-piece on them." My point being is that when you don't pay like you weigh, you're going to have shortcomings and it's evident right now cuz people are here today to express their feelings what's going to go on was already been happening. But you don't want to do anything about it. I'm not saying you in general. I'm saying over the years people don't care. So why should I care? But I do cuz this is my home. Like the fictional story, Wizard of Oz, Dorothy said it best. There's no place like home. This is my home. But now I feel like it's Aaron Brockov story. Trails of tears and tells some massacre. That's how I feel. I don't need three minutes. I know what I came to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh thank you, Mr. Williams. David Loe. And then we'll have Susie Luna Salana, Mark Munster, Gabriel Flores, Peter Moore, and Eric Gonelin. Uh David Loe, Corpus Christi. I'm here to ask you to continue moving forward on Inner Harbor and the Noasis River Wells. I'm also asking you all to prove that you are collectively able to work together to provide the essential service that is water. I want to thank council members Scott and Barrera for their work informing me and other community members on what the overall plan is. I encourage them and the rest of you to keep doing that here in the media and whatever groups will have you. Elected leaders, not staff communicating intent and getting feedback and support is transparency and always will be. There's a huge amount of distrust among you. So I want to be clear. I and others are not here at the behest of any of you. We are here because this problem must be solved. It's about whether this community and others around it have the ability to function. The net effect of the councilman's meeting was to convince a group of us who had given up hope on all of you collectively and individually uh and to try again before seeking intervention from the voters or the state. It's hard to come into a process late and feel ownership and commitment to it in the same way as your own ideas. I understand that. The reality is that this isn't any one person or group's project anymore. the state, other governments, environmental regulators, previous councils, previous staff, stakeholder, and environmental groups have all put their own stamp on it in some sort of way. It's in a lot of ways everyone's child, but also an orphan. So, let me say this. You don't have to take full ownership of this project. Others made choices for you, after all. But you do need to put do your part in moving it forward. As you hear and have heard complaints on 7C's project, you see the results of a closed process that very much is driven by one small group of people. I don't think you all will support that. I've heard a lot of desire to find other projects. 7C is an example of how something can look good one day and be bad the next when the years of due diligence and stakeholder engagement have not been done. In Inner Harbor has taken a decade because that's how long new water supply takes to ensure public and environmental safety. The good news about a publicly owned and managed project with lots of eyeballs and attention is that you know all the warts on it and you have partners to make and keep it successful. I'd suggest thinking and talking about transparency from that standpoint. Rather than information you need, come up with the information all of your partners need to stay informed and give it to them regularly. I'm confident in the science, but understand other people are worried about it. I do not have a problem with the restatement of the commitment to spend what it takes if an environmental problem manifests. That's why doing a publicly controlled project is so important. It gives all of us the opportunity to participate and make changes on an ongoing basis. We have public comment. Private equity companies from Sweden do not. The transparency I need is simple. I need to know a good majority of the council is committed to solving this problem and moving this project forward. The majority of you aren't in the tank for privatizing our water or so committed to undermining each other you destroy our communities. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Loe. Susie Luna Salana. [Applause] >> Susie Luna Salana, District 2. I want you to look at this room. It's full of people. But I also want you to look at our city. There's a lot of us out there that aren't here. And we need water. And we need water in what every way you can get it. So if it takes seven seas or it takes diesel, then we need to get water. Without water, we will not live. We will not have what we need. And you're gonna have a bay full of water and animals. And who are you going to be giving the water to? People need to drink water. They need water to live. That's who I want you to think about every single person in this city that needs water. Not just the few that want to save this. And you know, I admire those people that want to save the base and that want to save the dolphins and they want to save everything. I want you to save people. I want you to save the people that need to drink water. And if it takes and other forms of getting water, get it. If it takes this out, get it. If it take South Sea, get it. Those are the things you need are here to get. You're here to represent all of the people. And while we're at it, let's take a look at this Ocean View group. I think you need to launch an investigation against this group. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And let me tell you, if that person at the very top has been uh allegedly indicted because of some fraudulent things he's done, then you need to take a look at the people that were working under him. And those are the people that are here. You need to launch an audit investigation and you need to launch a real investigation of criminal type and find out what it is that they gave away $1 million every year in order to take the second person. You need to stop the contract. You need to do an investigation and you really need to take a look at it. Those attorneys are good people, both of them. However, there has to be a reason why this Ocean V group did it. And it sounds to me that when you publish that investigation, it needs to show what they did, when they did it, why they did it, and talk about lining people's pockets. Whose pockets were lined up with this one? You need to do an investigation, an audit investigation, a criminal investigation, whatever it takes to find out who's responsible for the stuff we're in. You don't have to wait till 2027. You power. So, let's use that power and do the right thing for the people. Not for yourselves, not for the voices that are here, but for all of the people. >> Thank you, Miss Alana. Mark Mster, >> Mark Minster, Corpus Christie. Um, I would say we should for sure think about the consequences and not just focus on getting water regardless of what what it is. You have to look at the consequences of of what you do. You can't just say we're getting water. And um a big thing of that is actual people, humans that are living here. And um yesterday I was in Hillrest for a press conference and um listened to a lot of testimonies from people that are living still living there and how they would be impacted by reszoning to heavy industrial by just street closures and unkempt promises from the city. And the reasoning isn't just resoning in a vacuum. This isn't just reszoning here today. This is decades, 50 plus years of what's been going on to this neighborhood that's been stacked on top of each other. So, it's not just the resoning in a vacuum. And um someone that was there yesterday that was no longer a hill, no longer a Hillrest resident, but they still go to the the the Brooks Ammy Church there. Talked about how that church has been around for more than 100 years and what happens in that church. Um what happens at Hillrest impacts that church and that's so that's not just the people that are living there. I'm sure some of you go to church. How would you feel if what was going on in Hillrest happened where your church is? how would you answer the questions to the other people that sit sit around you? And um I wanted to address the the public comment procedures um which are implemented today um concerning the resoning and the reasonzoning was a first hearing today. So it was going it's going to come back at a future meeting and I wasn't sure but I got that confirmed listening to the meeting earlier. So it's going to come back at a future meeting. Why would people coming at 5:30 not be able to talk about that if it's going to come back? That that doesn't make any sense. And yeah, it doesn't make any sense that because it is going to come back, why you would limit what people can talk about. And I handed out the paper that one of my comrades got an email and I also got a call yesterday that after I signed up for public comment that I couldn't talk about resoning at 5:30. It's coming back at a future council meeting. How does that make sense that y'all can't take input from the residents? The financial consequences of not moving forward with this plan that you say that we'll face are not as bad as the financial consequences and environmental consequences of moving forward. And that doesn't fall on the residents. That falls on the decision makers who made that choice. The people did not vote for this desalination plan. The water is not for the people. You have to look at 30 million gallons a day. Who uses how many gallons a day? Who is using the water? That doesn't make any sense to not think about that. Economic growth for who? Progress for who? It's not utopian or idealist to think that we can move forward without desalination. It's utopian idealist to think that we can continue to allow these same corporations who would give tax breaks and abatements that drain our resources, pollute our air and water, raise the cost of living, and push out people of marginalized neighborhoods. And you and for you to expect that people aren't going to be upset about that. >> Objection. Boister. >> Thank you. Mr. Okay, [Applause] guys, please I'm going to ask you again to please refrain from clapping and noise or we we will be here for a lot longer. Gabriel Fletes. Is Gabriel Flora here? No. Okay. Uh Peter Moore. Thank you. My name is Peter Moore. Um I am uh from District 4. Thank you for letting me speak today about an item that I I should have spoke uh at the 2 o'clock um at the 11:00 meeting. Uh I want to talk about the Hillrest resoning issue. Um I live on the island. I'm privileged to live in a part of town where the biggest concern is that someone will build another block of condos on my street and I can't even conceive of the possibility that the city would allow my neighborhood to be zoned for heavy industry. It's inconceivable to me. So I have to ask myself why is it not just conceivable but somehow logical that the same thing heavy industry would be okay for the Hillrest and Washington Cooh's community. That's a place where people live, where they sit out in their yards and on their porches where their kids and grandkids play just down the street from a public park and a proposed aquatic center. That this living, breathing neighborhood, a neighborhood, by the way, with a long and proud history, with a historic Texas cemetery, with historic churches that have long been central to the life of the black community. A history, moreover, that is integral to and woven together with the history of our city and our region that shows us at our best and our worst. How is it that such a place and its people are only fit for an industrial zone? Why is that okay? Now, I realize that the Port of Corpus Christi doesn't really care about people, and I have no illusions about that, but this is an all-time low. It's an all-time low and the port knew it and they tried to pull a fast one when they brought this to the planning commission. So, I plead with the council uh the ones who are elected to care about us as the people at least for our safety and the health of our neighborhoods that you will once again at your next uh at your next meeting vote against this request. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Moore. Eric Gonelin. >> Good evening, council and uh everybody else. Thank you for being here. Um my name is Eric Oneland. I live in Corpus Christi. I'm a fishing guide in Baff & Bay and um definitely not a scientist. So just going to speak from a fishing guide perspect perspective. Baff and Baff & Bay for DE for Del is the worst possible option that anybody could come up with. Not going to sugarcoat it. Baff and Bay water you are 52 miles from Alazon to to Packery channel and you are 83 miles to the east cut and Port Mansfield. You do not have a pass between that there. There is nowhere for the water to go water to go. It stays there. And if you look at the amount of flow that we get from the inter coastal, it's m it's minimal. So water that is p that is pumped into the back of Alazon into the coyote degreeo and the lagona salada stays there. The water that is going to be pumped there by a desalination plant will stay there. Excuse me. Um there is no evidence at least that I can find and everybody else that I've talked to there is no there's no ecological impact study that I can find that I can find and I think we've all done a bit of research on bit of research on it. Um and it scares me to think that we have not done any risk assessment on something that could impact my life and those of I can see 10 10 other guides around here that we make a living on this. If Baff & Bay is impacted, I mean, my my guide service is built upon trophy trout. And Baff and Bay is known as trophy trout mecca of the world of the world. That's how I make my make my living is by guiding people to catch the largest trout that they can find. If Baff and Bay changes, my life will change. So will other pe will other people's dozens in this room in this room. I would like to reference back to a uh unfortunately a disaster that h happened Deep Water Horizon BP BP. The only reason why that h that happened was because they failed to do risk assessment. The only difference now is is that we're the ones in the blast radius. What makes Baffin a special place is the hypers salailing environment that every I mean some people say that it needs to be saved from. Safe from what? Guys, we had the we had a very large freeze come come in 2021 that decimated the tr the trout, red fish, black drum populations. And guess what? Four years later, we're seeing some of the best trout fishing that we've seen in 20 years. Mother nature nature fixed it. The only thing that BAF bay needs from us is to leave it alone. Leave it alone. We don't we don't need it to we we don't need to save it. Quite frankly, we don't need to say need to save any base system. We just need to let it leave it be, you know. Um, nobody is saying that we don't need water. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Councelin. Judy Arnold. Judy Arnold. I live in the bluff. Um, I have been blessed to be in the marine industry for 30 plus years. I have been on the selling side. I have been on the receiving side. I have run a marina. These guys telling you that it's only one part per billion. and it's not going to make a difference. Running a marina, I take my bait in, the first thing I do is as I go test their water and see what their salinity is so that I can make sure my tanks match their salinity or my bait dice. So, you telling me this little bit of salinity isn't going to make an issue, it's going to make a huge issue. It's going to affect anybody. It's going to be affecting guides. It's going to be affecting boat dealerships. It's going to be affecting car dealerships because nobody's going to be buying those big trucks if they don't buy the big boats. It's going to affect everything, absolutely everything that we've got going on. Who's paying the electricity for this to happen? MIT did a study in 2019 that that byproduct that they want to put back into our base, they can turn it into other chemicals that plants can use throughout the United States and the world that they can then sell and make more money. Why destroy our bays? It is not necessary. Every little thing that goes into that bay and comes out of that bay affects everything. It heals itself. It fixes itself and we don't need to touch it. Thank you, Miss Arnold. Chloe Torres, and then we'll have Jay Hernandez, David David Gonelin. Yeah. Okay. I was going to make sure that's not the same one. Uh Dell Swatitalia, Chloe. >> Okay. Uh Khloe Torres, District 2. Um I'm here first and foremost to act in solidarity with residents from the north side who have been fighting to keep their neighborhood alive and thriving for decades. It's an honor to be here with them and I echo their demand to deny the port's request to reszone, especially as it pertains to keeping their streets open as closing them uh because of their proximity to massive refineries uh represents a threat to their safety. And speaking of threats to public safety, as reported by the collar times, it was front page news this weekend. A report commissioned by private entities revealed the presence of PAS, also known as Forever Chemicals, in the Corpus Christi Inner Harbor, the proposed source of water for the desalination plant. Um, several environmental groups urged the city to conduct a comprehensive study on PAS contamination and to postpone further contract signing and construction um until a plan is developed to address the issue. Drew Molly from Corpus Christi Water told the caller Times that Pifos removal quote had already been considered in the treatment approach and costs except that city staff never previously said so and has so far refused to conduct their own analysis to determine at what level PIFA may be present in the intake water. This is a rhetorical question. If you're guided by transparency and openness, why would you not have already addressed this threat to public safety? You could have done it at the town hall that you cancelled last year, but you didn't. And then had the nerve to slander community members when we hosted our own town halls because we saw a gap, a need in our community and we filled it. Um that were entirely public and that you were all invited to. So, um, some other, uh, quick thoughts on, um, just like what we saw with the the quote unquote farfield modeling. The farfield modeling is being used to justify environmental safety claims that impact us all. To now call it intellectual property is a copout. This isn't a rep recipe for Coca-Cola or banana bread. Farfield modeling is a standard scientific method. Saying it's intellectual property is like saying gravity is copyrighted. Taxpayer funded decisions demand transparency. If the science is being used as the basis to move forward with this project, and it is, then we have every right to see it. If the modeling data is sound, show it. What is there to be afraid of? Public trust is earned through openness, not secrecy. We won't accept a project that refuses to show its math. If private contractors can withhold critical environmental data, then you're not governing, you're enabling. >> Thank you, Miss Donis. Jay Hernandez. >> Hello. Uh my name is Jake Hernandez. I'm a resident of City Council District 2. Um I actually didn't have anything prepared today. Uh, I came uh today to show my solidarity with all of these blue shirts that are behind me. Uh, these are members of the Hillrest neighborhood, which Councilman Everett Roy, you may or may not know, uh, you represent these people. So, I take extreme I take extreme issue uh, with >> Objection. Objection. He he addressed uh the uh, councilman directly. >> Oh, yeah. Please refrain from that, Mr. Hernandez. >> Yeah. Uh, okay. Whatever. Um, anyways, as I was saying, I take extreme issue uh with the reasonzoning uh uh agenda item for Hillrest. Uh, namely to uh close off Noasis Street and that area. Um, I think that it's uh, first of all, extremely unsafe. And, uh, to echo what another one of my fellow community members said, um, I cannot comprehend uh, the idea of y'all trying to reszone an area for an ,, uh, for a light industrial district anywhere outside of one of these communities that are prominently black, brown, and lower income than other parts of the city. Um, the city of Corpus Christi has a long, rich, decadesl long history of courting uh industrial corporations that make an effort to impede uh on the lives of residents that are in marginalized classes. And I it's extremely troubling to me that uh people here on the dis haven't recognized that pattern and or uh have recognized that pattern or and are willfully continuing on with this long tradition long tradition that this city has of environmental racism and uh uh coupling with uh industrial corporations to put black and brown people in the dirt. It's absolutely insane to me. So, uh my plea here for y'all today is to uh not uh close off any more streets in the Hillrest area and to please recognize the fact that it is absolutely insane to continue this long tradition that we have of environmental racism here in the city of Corpus Christi. When I learned about the way that uh we constructed I37 to cut off the Hillrest community from the rest of the city and how we uh uh now have these uh uh industries that live around them that are toxic and dangerous. I was shocked and appalled to learn that that was the history of our city. Imagine my shock and appal when I learned that that's what we're still trying to continue to do today. So, >> please do the right thing. Yeah. Thank you, David Goslin. >> Hi, good evening. Uh, first off, thank you very much for um opening up for comments. I mean, I know this is probably difficult. I'm here um not in support I'm in support of desalidation. >> Sir, can you state your name and city? I'm sorry to interrupt. >> I'm sorry. David Gson. I'm in district 4. Um, in, you know, everything from a business perspective. I used to do business contracts and one of the things I've picked up on from going to the other the Kingsville meeting is contractually, you know, Southwest te South Texas water is supposed to deliver at a certain cost. One of the things is we've only seen what it seems like the cost is is if we dump the water into a creek that goes into Baen, but I don't see anybody I haven't heard anybody talking about, well, what are the options? What could I go back and pump it into the into the same reservoir? Can I go into the Gulf? Can I go somewhere else? And the problem I have with that is it doesn't give y'all the opportunity to understand what are the true costs. They're saying they'll deliver it at a cost, but nobody's asked in the contract, well, what's the impact of the model that you have to deliver this water? Nobody's asking that. And so the challenge that everybody here has is that you know the impact if you think about what's happened in all the cases of dioxin and you know there's a super fun site up in Galveastston Bay without knowing what the the solution is going to be and as my son spoke earlier Baffin the upper lagona the lower lagona are closed bay systems so you're not you're not going to have water exchange from the Gulf like you have in Galveastston Bay, you know, or even in South Bay down in Fort Isabelle. You don't have the exchange. So, I'd like to put this out there. I mean, I one of the things I talked to the lady that was from uh 7C's at the Kingsville meeting. She said, "Look, we're going to deliver less total dissolve solutions than what Baff and Bay is today. Fine. Show it to me." Here's the challenge. They don't know what the content is. They can't tell you what the what is in the the solution. What happens if the upper end of Bath and whether it's in Alazon or in Kyo becomes a super fun site? because there's so much stuff being dumped in and because the bays are clo are are closed bay systems. What happens if that end of that bay becomes basically a super fund site because it now is destroyed? Those are I just from a contractual perspective if nothing else the city of Corp prescriity should be asking what are my options and what's the impact of each of them right so it's not it's not that people don't want the way to do a desalination to get water it's they just want it done right >> thank you Mr. Gonlin and and as a statement of fact, I will tell you that that due diligence is being done. No, no. I don't care what date is is is is written where we have an obligation to do our due diligence and that is happening. >> Is that being done through the council and or is it done? >> No, we can't we can't have this conversation. call my office if you'd like. But but I just as a statement of fact, I just want you to know I don't want anyone walking away here thinking that we're not going to get that information. So thank you, sir. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Dale Satala, Dale Swatella, District 1. And I have a new ad free for your del plan. City ads have left out a lot of facts about the plan del plan. Did you know the plan is not really going to be built in the harbor? It's actually being put in a residential neighborhood that wants to stay zoned that way. It's going to produce 30 million gallons of water a day. But did you know that the 25 million of that is already promised to industry? However, it'll cost $106 million a year to maintain that del plant. And its 30-year life, that amounts to $3.2 billion. With inflation, that cost will even be higher. And did you hear the city last year tell us they plan to add $55 to every resident's monthly utility bill in the del is producing? And how much is the separate electric plant going to cost us? The Evangeline and Seven Seas plants will be so much cheaper. Say no to Inner Harbor Delion boondoggle. And uh I saw an article about us in the Texas Tribune from uh November of 22 when Exon Mobile came calling in 2017. City officials eagerly signed over a large portion of their water supply so the oil giant could build a $10 billion plant. A year later, Steel Dynamics came. Seeking water, Corpus offered them six MGD for their factory. Now, commitments made over the past 5 years are coming due. Exxon's plant started operations this year, 2022, and will eventually consume 25 MGD. That's 31, but this del is limited to 30. H the article has a lot of uh from a certain councilman who's not here this year. in 2021 where he implies the inner harbor will not produce enough. Also, he told our water department, I can assure you that within next five years, you're going to have several Exxons here and you're going to be ready not going to be ready with a plan or the water. City manager Peter Zenoni told city council, "This drought we're in right now, there's no solution for it but conservation. But conservation only applies to residents. According to a 2018 city ordinance, industrial users can pay 25 cents per thousand gallons for exemption from the restrictions. So citizens face fines for using water, but industry not. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Smatal. Pamela Brelard. >> Good evening, everyone. Um, my name is Pam Briard. I'm in District 2 and I apologize for my horse voice. Um, I'm actually here behalf of myself and my neighbors to talk about the conditions of the sidewalks on Texas, Indiana, and Ohio between Santa Fe and Alama streets. They are in such an extreme state of disrepair that they are unwalkable. And I've shared pictures of the sidewalk with my council member, Sylvia Campos. This is one of Corpus' older small neighborhoods, and the sidewalks are so bad that they really represent a safety hazard, particularly for the elderly and children. I have at least two neighbors on my block who have had serious injuries, including a broken hip and um a fall on the face that resulted in some smashing of the bones in their face from tripping on the unevenness of the sidewalks. In some places, the sidewalks are non-existent. Um, in the 25 years that I've lived in this neighborhood, there has been no maintenance on either the sidewalks or the streets. and my street is actually considered failed. These conditions have been made worse by the recent work on Alama and the driving of heavy equipment and trucks down the streets. I walk my dog every morning in these neighborhoods and I walk in Delmare and Besser Park and Morningside and I see the repairs that are being done on their roads and their sidewalks and wonder why it's not happening in our neighborhood. I've attended every available public input meeting that I can and I've made numerous complaints to the city with no results. I sincerely believe that the city's lack of attention to this area represents negligence on the part of the city. And in addition to the safety risks, it just prevents us from enjoying our community. I'd like to be able to walk down the sidewalk to neighboring restaurants and enjoy a meal and be able to walk back in the twilight without having to use the flashlight on my phone because I'm afraid I'm going to trip on the sidewalk. All the citizens of Corpus, all of us who pay property taxes should have equal attention paid to the maintenance in the quality of life in our neighborhoods. So, please consider giving your attention to this much neglected neighborhood and the safety and well-being of its citizens. >> Thank you, Miss Brillard. Uh Brad Bartles, >> he's not here. Okay, thank you for that. Rachel Cabayto and then we'll have Emily Carlson, Ruben Butler, Tobin Strickland, and then Alfred Williams. >> All right. Rachel Cavayto, District 1. Many of you have trust our have lost our trust a long time ago because you've been caught in so many lies. This is an experimental del and this is not for drinking water. We do not want to be your guinea pigs and we do not want to pay the $1.2 $2 billion price tag that keeps increasing after every meeting. As far as the farfield modeling that was sort of presented today, we aren't going that we aren't going to be allowed to see even though we are paying for it has not been run for one year. Two months ago, you all didn't even know it was in their can we say conflict of interest much. We want that report. We're paying for it. The real issue here is that you all have oversold our water and two individuals behind that dis keeps telling the rest of the community that this water is already sold. That is the truth. Quit making us choose between Noasis Bay, Corpus Christi Bay, the Laguna Madre, and Baffin Bays. You all have turned water into an expensive commodity that we need to survive. I would as far as economic development, which is the excuse that many of you have used on many occasions, look around. Our businesses are closed. Downtown is empty. Our streets are falling apart. We can't even get sidewalks. What kind of de e economic development are these businesses truly bringing to our community? >> Mayor objection questions are inappropriate. >> It's rhetorical. >> M please. >> It's rhetorical. He knows that. The other issue is city staff is using we pay city staff from our tax dollars and they are out promoting del on our dime when we're against it and that is wrong. The CEO of the water department is reaching out to constituents and the job is yours to reach out to us, not city staff. That is a waste of our taxpayer dollars. What they should be doing is finding other solutions and other solutions to do to to dispose of the brine. Where's the rain capture? We've received 91% of our average rainfall to date. Ask Alan Hol. You're you are showing your true colors. That's what's happening today. And I am so happy that there are so many people here to witness it. And I will say my last comment is maybe take advice from the TAN people that are actually using our resources. >> Thank you, Miss Cavayto. Emily Carlson. Good evening, mayor and councilmen, ladies as well. Um, I'm Emily Carlson, District 3. I am here today to talk about some Actually, I'm sorry. Um, I'm the owner of Access Taxi here in Corpus Christie. It's a small taxi company used to be known as Green and Go. Um, we would like to discuss uh the current vehicle age restrictions on taxis, limos, and party buses. My understanding is that the current current ordinance requires a 2017 or newer. I urge the council to consider increasing the permissible age of the vehicles to 10 to 15 years. And I'll explain why. From a financial perspective, um, older vehicles, particularly those around the 10year mark, are significantly more affordable. We're talking about a difference of $10,000 or more for uh compared to a newer model. The cost of saving is crucial for small business owners. Oh my god, I'm so nervous. I'm sorry. Um, so, um, it's also a misconception that older cars are inherently less less reliable and safe, but within the 10 to 15 year age range, they are built with advanced safety features, including but not limited to airbags, anti-lock brakes, and stability control. By adjusting the vehicle age limit, we're not compro compromising on safety or liability. Instead, this change would allow owners to acquire reliable, fuel efficient vehicles at a more manageable cost. Second, I want to talk about the permitting process for taxi drivers. It's an obstacle for anybody to get a permit. You have to jump through multiple hoops and it takes a couple weeks to even get started. We were hoping to um let's see, let me catch up here. I'm sorry. >> You're fine. I um urge the council to consider implementing a system where the applicants can receive a temporary permit upon initial application, allowing them to begin working while their full background check and comprehensive reviews are completed. This would significantly reduce the idle time of prospect drivers, helping them earn a living sooner, and addressing the immediate need for drivers in our streets. Of course, the safety protocols and background checks would remain paramount, but more a more agile initial permitting process would greatly benefit everybody. I thank you guys for your time and I'm so sorry. I'm so nervous. >> Yeah, you Emily, you did a great job. >> I'm going to ask our city manager if he could please look into the issues you're talking about and and they can get your contact info and work with you on that. >> Absolutely. Thank you guys so much. >> You're welcome. Councilman Hernandez. >> Yeah, I would echo what you just said there. you know, with the advent of Uber and Lyft and not having the same requirements, it's hard for them to compete on an equal footing. So, it would be beneficial to them to have some at least some benefit so they can compete in the the marketplace and not have one hand behind the behind their back. >> Yeah. >> Councilman Ku, >> Peter, I was talking to Chief Marco about this. Um, can you get with Michael Rodriguez and figure out what we can do because the taxi business, limo business, it's a tough business right now and and um they're just trying to make it. So, I think we should help him and um try not to have too much regulations, >> right? I took notes. We'll take care of it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Peter. Ruben Butler, >> can can my daughter read my notes for me? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> If you'll just state your name in the city you live here. If you live here, Mr. Butler. Yeah. >> Say your name. >> Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Ruben Butler. >> Okay. >> Butler. >> Yes. Okay. >> Ruben Butler and he lives in District 3. >> District three. Thank you. >> Um I'm I'm reading uh his notes here. Um I can't believe that I retired from the city of Corpus Christie Fire Department after 26 years fighting to save citizens, their property, and their homes. And now the city of Corpus Christi is helping other organizations to take mine. I'm here today to speak about me being prohibited from access to my property on Broadway due to barricades at both points of entry in clear violation of my basic right, which is on the left of him and on the right of him. I um I have been blocked from my property access to cut my grass and maintain my property. And I'm sure if the grass continues to grow after the rain, the city will tag me, cut the grass, and then ask me to pay a fine. I never receive any type of letter from the Port of Corpus Christi regarding the blocking of Broadway nor anything asking for my input regarding proposed changes. I ask that you vote no on reszoning Hillrest and no to any road closures in this neighborhood. Our community has historic roots, deep cultural significance in Corpus Christi. Any further zoning changes or street closures threaten to erase that legacy and push out and the remaining families who have called this area home for generations. The lack of clear communication and meaningful input from residents only reinforces concerns that these developments are not in our best interest. We ask that the city of Corpus Christi and all involved parties halt any actions that will alter zoning designations and restrict mobility in Hillcrest and Washington coals. The residents of this community deserve to be respected, heard, and prioritized, not managed as an afterthought in someone else's development plans. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Butler. Uh Tobin Strickland, >> those streets supposed to be open. They are open. >> Oh, okay. Okay. You know what, Mr. Butler? Mr. Before you leave, just to just to clarify. So, I think the intent initially may have been to to close that street uh Broadway, but it is open. >> Yes, sir. Maybe it may be barricaded. >> No, excuse me, mayor. >> Okay. >> Yeah, mayor. So, the Broadway right now and it has been closed for three years because of the new bridge. >> Okay. >> The new bridge. >> Yeah, if I hang on, ladies and people can hear me. Yeah. So, Texot and Flat Iron Datos have closed that and it they they will reopen it as the completion of the bridge is is finalizing. So, it's been closed for three years. That's one issue. The other issue is the closure of it permanently and we did not recommend that today and city council approved that today. Second reading, >> right? >> This city is not recommending the permanent closure. >> Okay. >> It is temporary closed due to the bridge construction. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> No, it is. You're right, Miss. >> Yeah. He's saying it is, but it was temporarily temporarily bridge. >> Temporarily closed. Yeah. side, >> right? We'll have to call tech stop for you and find out. Yeah, because it's not the cities didn't do it. Tech side is it's part of the bridge. >> We'll call Ernie Delarza will be in touch with you, Miss Butler. We'll help you out. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We're going to help you out, >> Councilwoman Paxton. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mayor Peter. Thank you for for explaining that it is tempor because it >> the orange cones are there. They're blocked and the concern is the access to the property. So what I hear is you'll be able to through Ernie reach out to Tex dot and figure out a way to remediate so they can access their property there. >> Right. Correct. Yes ma'am. >> Right. So we're going to help you with that issue. >> Okay. Sorry. Mr. Strickland. >> Thank you honorable mayor and city council. Uh I'm a resident of Corpus Christie, Texas. I'm Tobin Strickland. I live in pre precinct 3. I'm a former registered professional geoccientist for the state of Texas. I have an ecology degree from Texas A&M University. I formerly worked for the Lower Colorado River Authority and Harris County Flood Control District, acting as internal consultant on helping their engineers and project managers get projects done. In the end, little or no scientific study on brackish water discharge from reverse osmosis reject water has been done and especially to a hypersailing bay like Baff & Bay. Baff & Bay is much different than our other Texas bays. Baffin Bay has very little tidal exchange. It does not flush like Corpus Christie Bay or Galveastston Bay um on a daily basis. Just small minor amount of title exchange. It's the only bay in Texas that has adapted to being a hypers saline bay. Other bays in Texas with larger tidal exchanges that receive a high amount of freshwater do receive environmental freshwater flows for oysters for nursery life for different stages of forge species. Other bays require that base environmental flow of fresh water. Baffin doesn't require that. It's adapted to these hypersailing conditions. I want to switch to my other notes here. Uh I my personal effect is that um I have no problem with using del. I think you guys are having tough decisions to make to look at alternatives to get water. My only suggestion is to let's look at all the al alternatives to see what we can do with the reject water. Um 10 million 10 million gallons per day of discharge is 30 acre feet per day of discharge. And much of the coyote deguo and Alazan Bay which are two arms of Baffin Bay are very shallow. Uh on average one to maybe four feet deep. When you throw in 30 million get 30 acre feet per day and that's per day every day into a very shallow bay the upper reaches of those arms are going to become extremely fresh from this lower salinity water. It's also going to have its chemical constituents and nutrients in it etc. So that's that can very uh quickly overcome uh the the adapted seaggrass populations which our speckled trout, fingerlings and other resources look for for habitat. My request that there's no discharge of reject water from the RO system into the tributaries of Baffin Bay and we look for other alternatives. Uh, can we partner with Tesla who is going to have an RORO system? Can Tesla use this RORO water from the Dristoal plant as their feed stock and then perhaps after its use then dispose of it into a uh disposal well. Let's look for other alternatives where industry can utilize this water. We're pulling bay water. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you, uh, Mr. Strickland. Alfred Williams. And then we'll have Elena Martinez, Emily Carlson. You already spoken. Yeah. And then uh Frankella, Mr. Williams. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Mayor, city council. My name is Alfred Williams. I'm a resident of Corpus Christie, Texas, and I live in uh precinct one. I come this evening standing on behalf of my church which is located in Hillrest. It been there for over a hundred years. It's a landmark and family friends we grew up in that church and I known Hillrest when it was prospering. I look at it now and I'm shocked. So many friends and relatives that live there, people that work like me in the younger days to buy a home. So when they get older, they can sit back and relax and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Now I look over there and I don't see nothing but grass growing, homes are gone, and streets are cut up. I've been closed. And I know I know whatever happened in Hillrest is going to affect my church. We the only church that is still standing in Hillrest. There was several churches in Hillrest at one time and now we the only one. And so we know whatever happens to Hillrest is going to affect my church that's been in this neighborhood for hundred of years and it's a historic and I come to this today to tell you that I stand in support and solidarity with the people of Herrest. some of my family and friends that I been knowing for over the years. And I ask that y'all would not just do away with this community. We look at Cosby School is being done away with. All the things that we as African-Americans cherish is being taken away. And that's not right. I grew up in an era when they took stuff from my family. We couldn't say nothing. We couldn't do nothing because that's the way it was. But we live in a different time now. And I don't think any one of you sitting up on the city council today would want to get up and come to church and look across the street and see a big lay down yard next door to your church. I know I don't. When I go to church, I go to praise the Lord and worship him. And I just wish y'all would take in consideration not only my church, but the people that live there. They deserve better. And I think y'all can do better. And I pray that you do cuz I know each one of y'all probably got a church that you go to and I'm sure you shouldn't want to look out there like I have to look every day and see a a a laid down yard or light industry. So thank you >> Mr. Williams. Thank you Elena Martinez. I have slides. Okay. Alena Martinez, Corpus Christi. We often hear the talking point that the city should run like a business. Now, technically the city is a business, but what I believe people mean when they say that is that they want the city to run like a for-profit business. Many of the elected city council members now are business owners, so they're more most likely very familiar with how a successful business runs. However, government and for-profit businesses have very different goals, and so they run very differently. This is on purpose. Today, I'd like to go over the main differences. The goal of a prof for-profit business is to maximize the profit of stakeholders and distribute that profit based on the hierarchy of the business. Government's goal is to maximize the public welfare to make the lives of the citizens all of the citizens better. A for-profit business is privately owned. There are various structures for business ownership, but they are all private. Governments are publicly owned. This means that all citizens living in the jurisdiction of the government have equal ownership of all governmental property and assets. The management of those assets is the responsibility of the employees, elected officials, and appointed volunteers. Decision-making is actually much simpler for a private business. Um, as the authority of an individual increases, the higher up they are in the hierarchy. Government decisions are supposed to follow the will of the citizens. Businesses have revenue sources like sales and investors. And government receives money from places like taxes, selling bonds, and my favorite, enterprise funds. For those who don't know, enterprise funds are activities that charge a fee to the public for use. And the goal is for that activity to be self-funding. Here is a visual. >> Mayor, if I may, um, objection. City related business. >> I'm sorry. how um if she could make the city related business. >> The city is a government and this is how a government should run and I have concerns that the govern government some people have lost the sight of how a government should run versus a for-profit business. >> I still don't see how it's related to Corpus Christie city business. >> Yeah. Are you relating it, Miss Martinez, to anything in particular with the within the city? Well, I think that the >> I'm sorry. >> I feel like a lot of people have lost sight in the city of Corpus Christi. So, I would like to educate not just the council but also my fellow citizens who maybe don't have an accounting degree on how a government should run because they have a right to know. >> Go ahead. Um, so let's jump ahead to stakeholders and the hierarchy then because I think I lost some time. Um, a visual of the hierarchy. When you have a a business, you have owners and shareholders at the top and you see a ven diagram. Do I get more time since I got cut off? >> Did she? I'm sorry, guys. We we'll we'll take care of that. We we we don't need anybody, you know, in in the middle of this. Dude, go ahead and put an extra five seconds on. >> Five seconds. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> I had to I had to plead my case for more than 5 seconds. >> Go ahead, Miss Martinez. >> So, as you see, the hierarchy of a business is very clearly laid out based on the investment ratio. You've got in government, everyone has an equal investment whether they're members of the public, a business, city employees, or elected officials. And a lot of those are actually overlapping. They're the same people. >> Thank you, Miss Martinez. I appreciate it. >> Frank Ayella. Then we'll have Lucas Corniski. >> Thank you. >> Isabella Risa. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Yella. I'm gonna call out the next few names really quick. Lucas Corniski, Isabella Risa, Leah Arisa Ortiz, and then Michael Miller. Go ahead, Mr. Yellow. >> Thank you. My name is Frank Yala. I live in Corpus District 1. My concern was the Port of Corpus Christi wanting to make a zoning change to put a so-called layown yard. Well, I know exactly what's going to be in that lay down yard. There's going to be large turbine vent parts, propellers. There's going to be army equipment. There's going to be old trucks, tanks, there's going to be generators. There's going to be parts of trailers. And there's things that I don't even know what they are. But one thing a lot of these things have in common is they're old and they're rusted. Anyway, so the port says they want to put a lay down yard. I call it what it is. It's a high dollar junkyard. Anyway, um the planning commissioners said, "Well, maybe we'll make the port put a fence in front of it." Well, that makes it clear because all junkyards have fences in front of it. Anyway, I'm against this zoning change and thank you for opening up the road. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Aella. Uh, Lucas Corniski. [Music] Hello, my name is Lucas Kamiski. I live in district 4. 7C's is stating that they will refresh BAF and Bay by releasing brine that has a lower salinity than the bay itself. Baff and Bay does not need saving. It is not not need to be refreshed. It does not need a company who is led by individuals who have never set foot near its waters to alter its composition for their personal and economic gain. Let's be clear here. This is the easiest and cheapest way for seven seas to dispose of their waste. And they are arrogantly claiming that it will help the bay. It will not. Dumping brine, which has been treated with a variety of chemicals, into a landlock bay system will not refresh it. Baffin Bay is home to the best speckled trout fishery in the world. The reason why speckled trout and other fish grow so big in baffin is due to its unique hypers saline composition. Due to the salinity being due to the salinity being constantly high, the fish can absorb nutrients more readily, working less than fish from other regions to maintain homeostasis. These are facts. It is the key feature in growing trophy class fish. It's almost as if seven seas did not research the bay they are claiming needs to be saved. That's because they didn't. There were no environmental studies done on the future effects of dumping brine into a closed bay system. The most concerning part is that this was all done in secrecy. There was no public outreach, no information regarding the development of the delaw plant. The South Texas Water Authority in 7C signed a contract back in August of 2024 with no environmental studies or permits. Baffin Bay is not your guinea pig. It has been here long before us and it will be here long after we are all gone. Mother nature does a fine job taking care of itself and there is nothing man can do to improve what it creates. It will affect tourism, jobs, and recreation. There is no information available that states that Brian from Delaw will improve a bay's health. In fact, the only information available states quite the opposite. Every local environmental department recommends that alternate plants are enforced for disposal. The people involved behind closed doors should be ashamed of themselves. Everything about what is taking place is disgusting and we will not stand for it. Baff and Bay belongs to us. The people who are on the water every day. The people who rely on Baffin to provide them with its resources. We are the ones who understand and appreciate this bay. A foreign company who cannot provide safe water for residents in St. Croy should not determine the future health of a bay they don't understand. I advise you all to do your research and make the right decision. This will drastically affect one of the most pristine estuaries in the world and other options must be considered until further environmental research is done by reputable organizations with zero bias. The word is out and we see right through 7C's ambiguous statements. We are not politicians. We cannot be bought and we will not fall for false information. I will leave you all with a quote by Gandhi. Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs but not every man's greed. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Kamiski. Isabelle Risa. >> Okay. Isabelle Risa Risa, District 2, co-founder of For the Greater Good. We stand in solidarity with Hillrest and Washington Koh's residents and the Brooks Amy Church and its members. They are constantly attacked by Heavy Industry, the Port of Corpus Christi, the majority of this council, and the current city manager. I am appalled by the way in which the port and heavy industry constantly come to the city asking for handouts and getting what they want. Neither the Port of Corpus Christi nor the refineries are residents of Corpus, yet the city constantly bends over for them. They wanted to avoid paying their taxes. The majority of the members on this council gave that to them. Corpus Christie residents should look at the Corpus Christie map along refinery row. Look at the boundary between the city and refinery row. Why are the refineries outside the city boundary? Because that's what they wanted so they can avoid paying city taxes. Industry and the port want a desalination plant but don't want to pay for it. No problem. The city is borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars for those outside special interest and making the actual residents pay for it. Now the port wants streets closed and expanded industrial zoning. After today's meeting, the council is online to do just that. I know that residents in the broader Corpus Christie area would be outraged and exhausted if they had to endure the kind of attacks, broken promises, lies, and disrespect directed at Hillrest and Washington Cooh's residents. If your church or temple had to face the onslaught Brooks Amy Church faces every day, all of you would say, "How dare you? Don't put that here. Not in my backyard. Not next to where I live or worship." And if others told you to just move to sell your property and be done because that's the price of progress for industry, you would point out how irrational and complicated that would be for you. If the harm incurred by these residents in the Brooks Church isn't enough for you to say no, enough is enough, then let me point out how this impacts you. One, the port and heavy industry have gobbled up property, lowering nearby property values, displacing homeowners and renters and small businesses that used to contribute to the city's revenue that would be used to to provide city services. As these heavy industries expand, use more water, and employ less people, remember, there's been a 30% decline in jobs and refining industries since 2011. Our city services degrade. We've defunded our libraries, our parks, our senior centers, our trash collection services, our homelessness program, animal care services, and at the same time, our city utility rates have increased. Low expectations of city government that all we tend to demand for from them is better streets. That reality is directly related to the city catering to industry and the port. And when we keep catering to the port and heavy industry, we have less energy and imagination devoted to the people who actually live, work, and retire here, who raise families here, who bury their loved ones here. And even as we give the port and heavy industry more, they take more and demand more. What's happening to the Hillrest community and Washington Kohl's is happening to us, too. As a community, we need to stand with Hillrest and Washington Coast residents, with the Brooks AM Church. We need to demand better for them because demanding better for them is demanding better for us. And if water was so precious, then end the drought exemption for heavy industry. >> Thank you, Miss Arisa. Uh Leah Arisa Ortiz. >> Hello, council members. So, my name is Leah Ras Ortiz and I come from district 2 and I live in Corpus Christi. I am 16 years old. I'm here because I want to speak on how much I'm worried about pollution in Corpus Christie and and that in relation to the Hillrest resoning. Right now, what is up for debate is if Hillrest should be reszoned for industry p purposes. What is not up for debate is that industry is and forever will be harmful to people's health. People living by industry have been known to have more health problems with oil and gas pollution being linked to cancer. In fact, the International Agency for Research on Cancer has classified outdoor air pollution as a group one human carcinogen. Air pollution which we have more than the na than the national and state average of has been strongly linked to lung, breast, stomach, and brain cancer. While I know that the amount of residents in Hillrest have gone down in recent years, in reality, people still live there. This neighborhood has an active church and people are fighting for the right to worship and live without being slowly poisoned. People who live by industry in Corpus Christi are in the 80th to 100th percentile for low life expectancy. For comparison's sake, those who live by the university are in the below 20th. You rely on people not knowing the effects of heavy pollution or not having enough income to move out of these harmful areas. I ask you to remember that you represent the people and not the in the interest of industry. Hillrest should not be reszoned for industrial use that will allow refineries that much closer to neighborhoods and people. I'm going to end this on a quote from the Bible. Isaiah 5'8 states, "Woe to you who add house to house and join field to field so no space is left behind and you live alone on the land." Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss uh Arisa Ortiz, Michael Miller. And then we will have Rocky Gha, Becky Mohler, Eric Payne, James Klene, Melissa Zamora, Long day. Good afternoon. Michael Miller, District 2. Mayor and Council, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I come to you this afternoon to invite you to take a step back and look at our city water crisis from a 40,000 ft perspective. Rhetorically, I ask, what are we doing? Despite the water that is headed for our reservoirs as we speak, there's no denying that we are in a water crisis. We need water, and we need it now. The most imminent project before you use the Inner Harbor desalination plant, which promises to provide an uninterruptible water source for the future growth and prosperity of our region. Five of you are cautious, wanting to review the cost and data before moving forward. Four of you appear to want this project at any cost. Well, let's look at the cost. Rhetorically, I ask, what is the cost? The new number that has been floating around is $1.2 billion. I contemplate things of this nature by scaling them down to numbers that I understand. Most of us at some point have either shoed for or purchased a home. Most of us has hired a realtor to evaluate properties on our behalf to see what the market is for homes in a particular area. I purchased my first home in April of 2010. I found a house in the Bay Area that I liked for $186,000. My realtor pulled comparable sales in that area that ranged from 130 to 160,000. My first offer was 150,000. We settled on 156. Through research and negotiations, I left the closing table feeling that I got a fair deal. Rhetorically, I ask, have we done that with the by far the largest, most critical purchases city has ever made? I don't believe so. So, in front of you, I've handed a comparative analysis of the top 11 largest desalination plants in the world. When my realtor was discussing comps with me, we primarily looked at costs per square foot. So, I have structured my analysis in a similar fashion by drilling it down to initial costs per million gallons per day. Large-scale desol largecale seawater desalination has only really been around for the last 25 years. I provided you with a comparative analysis of the cost per MGD for every plant both in terms of the cost when they were built brought online and adjusted for inflation in today's dollars. By far the most expensive plant ever built was the Bud Lewis plant servicing San Diego County in California at $18.4 million per million gallons per day. The unit cost of this plant was over twice the cost of the most expensive plant ever constructed in Saudi Arabia. But this is to be expected because California is the most difficult regulatory environment in the United States. So how rhetorically is the Inner Harbor desalination plant two times the cost of the California plant at $40 million per million gallons per day? That outrages me. Look, I don't blame this council for the situation we're in. The Inner Harbor plant looked like a good deal four years ago when Frieza Nichols told us it would be no more than $220 million. But here we are, five and a half times that now. And virtually none of the plants on this list were completed on time and on budget and worked when they turned them on. Let's get real, folks. >> Thank you, Mr. Miller. And I would, Mr. Miller, I would advise and and and maybe we can um reach out. I think some of the information you have is based on different data, different GDGs. Well, 20 MGD was was the number. Yeah, there's there's some there's some information that we would love for you to be clear on >> facts. Okay, we'll give you those facts. So, I would like if he doesn't want to, that's his business, but I would like for council to reach out to him because some of that information was clearly, you know, it was based on we will. That's what I'm doing. Thank you, sir. All right. Um, let's see here. Rocky Ga. >> Hello, uh, mayor and council members. My name is Rocky Gara. Um, I have been, my family has lived here since 1970. We have created a business here uh fishing tackle business that uh has served South Texas and Texas and quite a few other places. Uh we've built this with many of the people that have already been up here to speak to you with fishing guides. Running the Delaw brine through our Baff and Bay would be the worst thing we could do. This Baffin Bay hypersceline area has been able to sustain itself for thousands of years and to this date to do something like that would poison that base system. The reason for like other people before me have said this is the trout mecca speckled trout mecca of the area. We everybody comes from different parts of the world just to come here to fish, catch the largest trout, see the best things that they can see, the growth that we have in that uh Baffin Bay with the amount of trout that have been able to sustain themselves in that high salt content for years and years and years. and for other species to be able to continue to live and survive in that high salinity level. And again, this is a closed system. Once you run it through those creeks and into Baffin and it gets out into our lagoonas, the lagona cannot flush all that out. It will kill the industry. It'll kill our fishing guides, hotels, all the entertainment you guys have gotten together so that all our tourists can come over here, fish, go have fun over there at the hooks, go play at the uh the park, all these beaches we keep clean. All of that's going to be gone. You do that, we're losing a whole huge fishing industry, which people travel on a daily basis here. So, I'm a no. We're all a no to this del dumping of the brine into our baff and bay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Getta. Becky Mohler, [Applause] Becky Becky Mohler from District 4. I'm going to be really really brief today because I think uh a lot of folks really have more to say than I do. I certainly want to yield to Mr. Butler and Mr. Williams who are longtime Hillrest people. I urge you though to vote no on this encroachment, the encroachment into Hillside. I remember when it was a a vibrant community and then little by little you chip away and chip away and chip away till suddenly there's going to be nothing but a layown yard over there. So, please listen to the residents of Hillrest. We used to have a lot of fun going over there dancing and carrying on. You know, those are gone now and they shouldn't be. They should still be there. That should be part of the culture. So, vote no on the encroachment into Hillrest. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Muller. Eric Payne. Is Eric Payne here? No. Uh James Klein. Mr. Klein. Uh, good evening. Thanks again for for listening to me tonight. Uh, my name is Jim Klein. I live in District 2 here in Corpus Christi. Um, I'm going to go off script uh and talk about something else. Um, I learned uh yesterday that there was an isobutane leak in the inner harbor from the dock number three of the Sitco plant. I have concerns about that. I heard this from the Coast Guard. I don't know what the amounts are. I haven't seen anything like that. Also, I don't know how long it leaked. It began on Tuesday evening. I believe it spread into Sunday yet or began on Saturday evening, spread into Sunday yet as well. But I think it's of concern. I think particularly if we're going to use the inner harbor as a water source for the people here in Corpus Christi. I would ask that city staff respectfully ask that they look into this. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Klein. We'll do that, Peter. You got that? Melissa Zamoda. I'm Melissa Zamora, District 2. Um, my notes are a little all over the place, like my mind. I'm really thankful for everybody that's here and um for the time that y'all are taking um to listen and I hope that you do. So, uh a lot of us here, we are not environmentalists. We are nature defending itself. Um, of course, their models from earlier would not say that there would be any harm because they TCQ, freeze the nickels, Q it, all of the industries behind it, the industry coalition and everyone else that's for it is getting some kind of monetary benefit from this. The Delaw reps earlier mentioned they feel like Delaw will not negatively affect our bay with hypoxia, but the full study hasn't even been done. Um, Hillrest deserves protection. And we all do. We all deserve clean air and water. Can you imagine putting put yourself in their shoes? Please put yourself put your children with the Hillrest community and think about how you would feel. Wouldn't you be up here defending yourself? Do you really want to drink ship channel water? Is what keeps going in my head. All locals know if you're from here. We don't even want to swim in Corpus Christie Bay. let alone drinking from the ship channel. And as you heard, I didn't even know there was that kind of chemical leaked yesterday. Thank you, Dr. Klein. The Harbor Bridge hasn't even come down yet, and we've heard that when it does, there's even more chemicals underneath that structure that will come out into the ship channel. Are there safeguards or emergency plans for future disasters or explosions? I keep hearing the word drought proof, but how can you guarantee that it's uninterruptible when we've had chemical explosions? What are we going to do if that happens? Hopefully, there's some kind of plan from nine churches down to one. You are taking their livelihoods in Hillrest and replacing it with industrial layown yards. Where is your humanity? Kids can't even play outside comfortably there. I've taught some of them. I've asked them, "Why don't y'all, you know, go outside more?" Being ignorant to where they're from. They said, "Miss, my throat burns when I play outside. They're from the Hillrest and Washington Kohl's area. My eyes itch. I don't want to go outside anymore." That's their reality. In a city that's surrounded by industrial billionaire companies, how can we still have dilapitating sidewalks, streets, and schools when we should be relishing in all of the the riches that you're selling us? Think about what you're doing. Please make the right decision. Look into your hearts and have common sense. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Amodora. Uh, Sage Himenez. >> All right. U Sage Himenez from District 2. Um, I'm not from Hillrest, but I'm willing to speak and help the people that live and own property from there. Just a couple weeks ago, I went to a meeting and was able to talk to a couple of people that own and used to live at Hillrest. And what I did, wait, what I did was put me in their shoes and made me want to stop the resoning even more. I just really think y'all should stop. And about Delawation, I would definitely want to stop this. It's going to be harming our waters, literally. What Corpus is known for, and our fishing, which I love and others do, too, which they're here for. But that's it. >> Thank you, Mr. Himemen. Is Henry Is Henry Williams here? >> Okay. Uh Tina Butler, did you speak already, Miss Butler? >> Oh, for your dad. That's right. Yeah. >> Um yes. Good afternoon. My name is Tina Butler. I live in District 3. Um, and I just want to say uh again that I um am asking that the council oppose uh resoning of Hillrest. Uh as I mentioned uh before um this community is historical. Um I'm a member of >> Butler. I'm sorry to interrupt, but um you had you spoken on the zoning before. Yeah. During the item. So yes, ma'am. >> Well, then I'll talk about the road closure uh and and again with West Broadway that was on behalf of my dad earlier. So, uh, I took pictures yesterday and, uh, there's only two points of entry to our property on West Broadway. One is off of Port Street, the other one is off of Hatch Street. One was text dot and one was the city. So, we cannot get into our property even though you're saying three years. We've been cutting the grass in those three years. Lately, we cannot get to the property to cut any grass. And it has rained and we don't want to get tagged and we don't want to get fined. and we don't want the city to start using that as a means of trying to take over our property. So, we would like access to our property and however we can get it my I can give you my email so that we can get into there, but text dot is not the only one prohibiting us from getting to our property. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Butler. Um, Mr. Zenown, can we address that? >> Um, I can't I'm not sure. I don't think um I don't think we have any roads closed, but I have Miss Butler's I have Excuse me. Yeah, I have Miss Butler's email address. We'll get in touch with her. We can get her number. We'll call you. >> Thank you. Amanda Geta. >> Is Amanda Geta here? >> Okay. Uh Jessica Pelitza. >> Perfect timing because my phone's going to die. Hey guys. Um, so I did come here to speak on agenda item number 18. Please do not reszone Hillrest to be any type of industrial zone. You've heard some great >> Can you state your name and city, please? I'm sorry to >> interrupt. I live in district 2. Um, people still live in Hillrest. Stop allowing and voting for environmental racism. But I also need to speak about the Baff & Bay deselination which also endangers people of color by buying deselinated groundwater from the South Texas Water Authority. That would be a terrifying decision not only for our ecosystem but every person who lives in Newasis County, especially the Colonius around there. And while those aren't the jurisdiction of the city, we should still care about the people who live in the Colonius um throughout the county. Our subsurface water flows are connected in complicated ways that even local hydraologists struggle to understand. Therefore, it is likely that extracting brackish groundwater near Petronila Creek will lower the groundwater available for those living in the surrounding area. This will endanger the thousands of people living in the city of Petronila, Cindy Park, Tira Grande, Lost Creek, Spring Gardens, and other unincorporated colonials. There are hundreds of underserved colonials in our region with anywhere from dozens to 300 homes and families each. Many of them are too poor to connect to the water that CCW sells. These families only have running water from groundwater wells that are hundreds of feet deep in connected aquafers. My coworker has met people that drink the water straight from their wells and that's not recommended because the water quality is poor, but the groundwater is the only water access that they have. So please do not threaten that access. If their groundwater resources are impacted because of your extraction, their wells are at a risk of running dry. So this is a selfish and risky move. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Pitza. Pearl Low. My name is Carol Lowe. I live in District 1 and I'm here to talk about the resoning of the Hillrest area and the closure of several streets in the area. I've attended church at Brooks AM Worship Center at 21101 Northport Avenue for many years now. This is about three blocks from where the proposed street closures are. I'm here to object to the street closures and to reszoning this area around our church. We don't want, we don't need any kind of industrial zoning around our church. We need homes and businesses that enhance Hillrest, not destroy our neighborhood. Any kind of work that creates noise or pollution does not belong in a residential neighborhood like ours. Please do not allow these streets to be closed. Please stop the resoning of the area around our church. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Low. Adam Rios. And then we'll have Arman Alex, uh, Betty Cranford, Maggie Peacock, Araceli Martinez, and Mana Lidle. Adam Rios, Corpus Christi, District 5. That was like the Price is Right. I was just waiting for my name. Uh telling you if you play the music might get people to down here. Um I want to just uh talk briefly about uh this was talked about earlier. I was listening to it on my drive back from Austin uh where I had some pretty interesting conversations with friends of mine in the industry up there. And this has to do with uh a management company that's running our American Bank Center. Uh just to let you know, uh after the $15 million fine, uh to OGV and the $ 1.5 million fine towards Legends, cuz well, they were coercing with each other. By the way, if you don't know this, Legends is actually a New York joint venture that involves Jerry Jones. So, he's probably going to have something to say about this after a while. But, uh after being indicted, basically, this is how he described his business model. Mr. Liki, Luiki, whatever. uh he calls it a vertical complimentary business partnership. Strange way to describe something like that, but okay. Um but what I found out too, just in case some of you didn't know, was there's other things that are going on, including the undisclosed payments they've been getting from Ticketmaster. You see, OVG uh under the threat of prosecution decided to reveal some very significant payments that were made from Ticketmaster. $20 million upfront, $7 million annually to steer clients towards the signing of Ticketmaster. Talk about a lack of transparency prior to it, but now they've come out and said, "Okay, that really did happen." Uh that is why when I bought tickets to the rodeo, I actually bought them uh from a little booth and I paid I think $25 a piece for those. If I would have gone online through ticket master, those same tickets would have been about $125. Uh yeah. So anyway, uh they literally prior uh prioritized their own financial interests over the best interests best interests of his clients, which is really us. And the irony is I remember a while back they actually had the nerve almost to come in front of city council and ask that the city subsidize their shows for them to borrow money from the city. I don't know what the legal issues would be or what it would take to break a contract or something like this. I know that I've heard oh it'll it'll cost the city millions of dollars. But what if we sue them for breach of contract? They're supposed to manage this place. They're supposed to make money, not gross dollars, but net dollars, not lo local vendors out, uh, not have the disputes of a naming rights thing, which I don't want to get personally involved with, but my gosh, if there was only two bids over the course of that long of time, why not the Coca-Cola center? Why not Miller Lightite? Why not Minute Made? Why not Gatorade? What were they doing to try and attract more people? What have they done to generate more money? Now, you can say, okay, they've turned a profit. supposedly that's what they say. Uh but at what cost? Look at everything that's going on. Anyway, I could have gone down that road even further, but thank you all very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Rios. Uh Arman, Alex, [Applause] >> good evening. Uh council members, Arman Alex, lifelong resident of Corpus Christi. Um, our family was once again stunned and disappointed to see an item on your agenda today proposing to reszone a portion of the Hillrest area from residential to industrial. Let's be clear, that is a violent and unjust act. Why is that? It is predatory and it is rooted in the same patterns of environmental racism that have long targeted our historically and nationally recognized neighborhoods of Hillrest and Washington Kohl's. Period. This reszoning request comes straight from the port of Corpus Christi to no one's surprise whose whole track record of reckless and greedy expansion shows blatant disregard for the health and dignity of nearby communities. And by the way, if you haven't heard this yet, let me remind this council and those running for reelection. You cannot claim to support black residents and black businesses while working against black residents and black businesses. Words mean nothing without action. And y'all's actions like wanting to reszone homes to industry is yet another attack. Stop treating Hillrest, Washington Kohl's, and black residents as disposable. Instead of continuing this legacy of neglect and harm, I call on this council to reinvest fully and boldly in the people of Hillrest. Not only do you have the moral obligation to do so, you have an actual legal responsibility as well. Might I remind you all, as a result of the Harbor Bridge project, a project this community did not ask for, the city of Corpus Christi was tasked with leading the revitalization of Hillrest. That was not a suggestion. That was an actual legal mandate. Hillrest does not need more pipelines. It does not need smoke stacks or a desalination plant. Our friends and neighbors want lighting. They want real city services. They want health care services. They want clean air and spaces for joy and e and recreation. The hill the people of Hillrest deserve more than bare minimum our survival. They deserve to thrive just like your neighborhoods do as well. Hillrest and Washington Coohls have waited long enough. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Alex. Betty Cranford. Betty Cranford. Oh. Oh, no. That's not you. I thought you were Betty. Okay. Maggie Peacock. Um, all righty. Maggie Peacock, District 4. Um, I am really excited to be back here speaking today, mostly because I'm surrounded by so many beautiful members, but um, also really angry to be back here speaking today. Um, I'm speaking in solidarity with the Hillrest community and on the same issues and demands that many people have been speaking for for many, many years. Um, this is my first public comment back since moving back to Corpus Christie and I'm a little nervous. I haven't been up here in a while. Um, but I wasn't supposed to move back here for another four years. Um, I was supposed to be gone for five years. Um, but I did because I have never experienced such a resilient community as the Corpus Christi community. Um, y'all should feel honored to represent all of these people showing up in blue. They are the most beautiful loving people you will ever meet in your life. Um, if you are continuing to push for del even with the new fines of POS in our water that will perpetuate health issues here in Corpus, or if you are voting to reszone Hillrest to further industrial zones, um, after everything else y'all have done to that community, and if you are spreading prop uh, propaganda to perpetuate y'all's lies, you should feel ashamed. You should feel ashamed that you are not on the same side of all of these beautiful people. Um, and as a reminder, we are in a manufactured water crisis. Yes, we need water. Um, but we need heavy industry to stop draining our water. Um, if you're continuing to further oppress community members, prioritize corporations draining our water supplies over the health and well-being of the people you are supposed to represent. After all of these years of resistance from community members, I don't know how to describe it other than like soul loss. Um, and that means you're going to lose. Um, the people with the heart, the resilience, the strength, those people are going to win. Um, we will not let you further perpetuate industry into Hillrest. We will not let you move forward with Diesel. We will not let you all destroy the coastal bend with heavy industry. We will not let you drain our water for your profits and your status. Um, these people here today are proof that you're going to lose. So, >> thank you, Miss Peacock. Araeli Martinez. Hello everybody. My name is Ariseli Martinez and I am a long resident of Corpus Christie, Texas. Um, I didn't really know what I wanted to talk about because pretty much everybody here has touched base on what I would like to talk about. But I would love to tell y'all that literally 20 years ago, Hillrest was vibing. That was the place to be at that. You would hang out with your friends and your friends grandparents. And you know, grandparents, they feed everybody. And sad to say, 10 years ago when I moved back to Corpus and I rode around, I was shocked. And now, not too long ago, I drove by there and there's nothing there anymore of what I remember. All I want to say is a lot of y'all may not know anybody from the Hillrest. You know, I get that. But understand that it's not fair. where used to be a beautiful, vibrant neighborhood is no longer there. And I hope that y'all find it in y'all's hearts. Please don't reszone it. It's not fair. It's sad that when I go travel to San Antonio to visit my family and I'm coming back or leaving Corpus, it's awful. It's ugly. All you see is industry. That's all you see. It's not that sparkling city by the sea. And I love Corpitos. So, thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you, Miss Martinez. Uh, Mona Lidle. Good evening. If you feel like I do, I know you're ready to go home. I'm gonna make it quick. I am passing out these. This was a last minute, but for Hillrest for Newasis Street. >> Ma'am, can you state your name and city, please? >> The name is Monolid, and I'm from the historical neighborhood of Hillrest. And what it is, the first two pages is showing new aces street because thank you for letting us have Winnebago and Broadway, but Newasis is important too because we need all the outlets in case they're on the last page. We're behind industry. Industry is behind us. If anything happens, any type of explosion, anything, we need to get out and we need to go forward. We can't use Martin Luther King. We cannot if we use port, we go to the left because there so many tanks that can affect us. If we go to the right, go to Leopard, you know, we may be able to get out, but we're going to be in a panic. We need to know that we have outlets and this will give us three outlets. Winnebago, New Aces, and Broadway. We could go straight and we could go to Sam Rankin. But behind us, because you don't live there is industry. So, we don't know what the future holds. We don't know what mistakes can be made. So, I'm asking if you can say no to the closing of New Aces, that would be very helpful to us. Second thing, Kennedy Street in Hillrest, it has potholes. It's terrible. I have made calls. It's terrible. Even the bus is going zigzag, zigzag. We need help on Broadway Street from Stillman to Port. They are putting pipes in. So, that is closed. They've been uh putting pipes in. I guess for the uh diesile, but that area is closed and they I was told it's from the city, but it's from Stillman Street to Port. So that's what Mr. uh Butler was talking about. So that's why it's closed and because they have put new pipes from New Aces Bay and they come in now to STEM. So it's been closed. Broadway has been closed for a while. Okay. Something else I need to talk about. What else? Uh, no. I can't remember. I said it's past my bad time. Um, nap time and everything. But I do thank you for leaving every the streets open and we do need your support in Hillrest. Oh, I know what it is. Light industrial in Hillrest. No. Thank you. Thank you. Uh thank you, Miss Lidle. Thank you. >> Yeah. And Miss Lidle, just know that your your comments were heard and especially your district councilman here was was making certain that we as staff I think Peter stepped away for a second, but I know staff's listening. >> I'm going to make sure that Peter >> Yeah. >> as far as the potholes and that. I'll make sure that we get >> Well, we'll we'll we'll take care of it. Thank you, Amanda Breeland. >> Is Amanda Oh, there you are. And then we'll have Todd Wilson, um, Beatatrice Alvarado, Meline Chapman, Laramie Fain. Um, Amanda, District One. Um, I'll try to keep this short cuz majority of the people have already commented on what I wanted to say, but um, I want to say, um, I'm glad y'all made the change of the 5:30 public comment. Um, it made it more convenient for me. I don't know about other people, but it seems like there was a lot. So, um, but I don't I don't agree with the splitting of the general comment versus the agenda action items. Feels idiotic to me, honestly. Um, I feel like it should all be done at once. Um, I can't help but feel like it was by design to purposely be confusing to citizens and not allow them to comment on the reasonzoning. Um, let's see. Um, I also don't agree with the cutting back the signup time by an hour. Why was that? It's rhetorical, by the way. Don't yell at me. Um, I'd also like to express my opposition to the Inner Hour um, deselination plant in general, but also the reasoning of the Hillrest area. I'm not sure why y'all are so willing to sacrifice that um, neighborhood that is predominantly black people. Like, it's they've been sacrificed all these years. It's clear to see. Um, many people have talked about how it was such a wonderful neighborhood to be in and visit and now look at it and y'all just want to make things worse. And like these people are literally begging begging you time after time. People want to come back with these numbers, but at the end of the day, these are real people who live there and don't deserve to be neglected and they don't deserve to have their homes and their neighborhood destroyed. Um, what else? How much time do I have? >> Um, yeah. I don't know. I'm tired. Um, I don't remember what else I want to talk about. >> Objection. Profanity. >> Was that profanity? I wasn't sure. Yeah, we can't say the f- word. Sorry, my bad. Um, >> it's fine. >> It's late. I I said the majority of what I wanted to say anyway, like no to diesel, no to resoning. Um, thanks for the 5:30 public comment. >> Thank you. Thank you, Miss Brilland. Todd Wilson is Yeah. >> Is he here? >> He left. Okay. Mr. Wilson's not here. Beatatrice Alvado is Beatatrice. Yes. Uh hello uh Vetric Alvarado, District 1. I'm here to speak against the industrialization of the city of Corpus Christi, which has led to the need for any desalination plant, whether it be saltwater del in the inner harbor or brackish water del that will dump into Baffin Bay. Congrats. You have pissed off the environmentalists and the fishermen. Growing a city responsibly inhabited by residents with strong values and morals takes political courage. It takes having a spine. We've insisted we've sorry, we've instead had to watch you take shortcut after devastating shortcut to line the pockets of billionaires and the most privileged in the city. This includes turning a blind eye to the cancer-causing forever chemicals in the inner harbor, which you plan to pull from for the region's drinking water, and the killing of the last standing historically black neighborhood left in the city. Hillrest residents deserve your respect. They deserve to be placed over billionaires and profit. They don't deserve industrial encroachment from the port and they don't deserve to bear living next to a desalination plant that would enable that would enable further industrialization. We were here earlier this year to urge you to force industry to curtail water use because we are running out of water. We were here to try to stop you from adopting a drought contingency plan that continues to allow industry unfettered access to our freshwater. We were corrected and told we actually weren't running out of water and you move forward on adopting a drought contingency plan that does nothing to save Cho Canyon and Lake Corbus Christi. Then last month, Mayor Paul Guardo told the news that we actually are running out of water and that the only thing that can save us is Peter Zenoni and deselination because of unprecedented evaporation rates due to climate change. The only thing that can save our fresh water and our bays is a council with political courage and a spine. Industry needs to curtail before we reach stage four. We don't have time to wait for del or other water supplies that you've waited years to prioritize. You're doing nothing to bring quality jobs that don't deplete our drinking water. You're doing nothing to give young people hope a hope for their future. You lack political imagination and it's leading to an exodus that you will be remembered for. Over 90% of the region's manufacturing demand for water is already coming from newasis and San Patricio counties and Del will only grow that number to residents detriment. It's aggravating to see you casually deplete bodies of water and pour millions of gallons of brine into other parts into others as part of some business plan. Prolonging the myth of exponential growth amid climate change is suicide. We may have had some losses this last election cycle, but today should serve as a reminder that we're not giving up our water. >> Thank you, Miss Alvado. Maline Chapman's bones lock up when she sit down. Mayor and council persons. My name is Matteline Chapman. I live District 1, Peabody Hillrest uh uh neighborhood. Okay. I'm uh opposition to the del in our neighborhood. I'm opposition to the del in Batham Bay to create problems for those people. I just learned about that. I'm opposition to uh reszoning and blocking those streets, New Aces, Broadway, and Winnebago because all of those streets and others were our access through our neighborhoods, Washington, Kohl's, Hillrest. We travel through those streets to those neighborhoods. I've been living in Hillrest 70 years. Why would you block our access when there's supposed to be a swimming pool and a ballpark right behind the heavy industry or light industry, which makes no sense. If you're going to have people, children, why would you have heavy industry there and a pool and a ballpark and no access to our amphitheater? And why did they make the entrance to the walk for your new bridge in the hood? Sam Rankin right there. I think they put it there for a reason. like they put the double wide crosswalk into the neighborhood for a reason. They say they don't know what they're going to do, but I think they know exactly what they're going to do. I say no to the del, no to the closing of the streets, and no to any more industry killing us. I survived cancer five and a half years, and I'm still battling it. and grandma's gonna be here and continue the battle. Thank you guys. >> Thank you, Miss Chapman. Uh Laramie Fain. >> All right, Larie Fain, District 2. First and foremost, if you have not done so, you need to go and watch the April 30th planning commission meeting ahead of the next reading of the Hillcrest resoning. It is available on the city of Corpus Christiey's YouTube channel. Pay attention to the public comments both in that video and here tonight because these are the people that have to live with the consequences of the decisions that you make. Now, regarding the implications of Del, the environmental impacts aside, regardless of where you build it, you are pitching this facility as producing an infinite, uninterruptible supply of water in perpetuity, which to believe that is to be either wolffully naive or willfully ignorant. That aside, what do you think happens when water intensive industries like ammonia, lithium or uranium refinement, um, Bitcoin mining operations where AI and data cooling centers catch wind of this? It's going to be open season on us and our neighbors. Is that what you want? Endless industrial expansion that is going to come at the cost of our quality of life. It's the people that need water and there are responsible alternatives to del. It is not our responsibility to provide for industry. They're big boys. They got deep pockets. They can figure it out for themselves. If they can't, they go under and that is capitalism. That is how it works. You serve us. You don't serve industry. You need to remind yourselves of that. And I hope that tonight was sobering for you. Thank you all for staying. Thank you'all for listening to us. I do appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fain. Uh Joshua Frederick, Joshua Frederick, Genesis Bamante. [Applause] Hi, good evening. Genesis Bamante, District 3. Forgive me, it's my first time doing public comment and meeting you all face to face. Um, all my questions in my speech are rhetorical. The year is 2025 and we're talking about privatizing our water supply in hopes of securing water for our city's future by reszoning my neighbors community that doesn't want to be reszoned and adding to the destruction of our bay. One of the worst mistakes that you can make is rush something important. The people that you contracted seem so unprepared to give you the answers you needed and misguided you to say the least. Problems have arisen from uninformed contractors and public figures. There is an alarming lack of initiative on sharing critical information like how this affects us and how much this costs. If this were your own business, would you continue with the plan even if your partner became increasingly more shady and left you looking like a fool? One person said at the end of the meeting that we need to have faith that everything will be okay, referring to the desalinization plan. Faith is a beautiful thing to have, but no public figure paid through tax dollars should be trusted through faith alone and even fear with contractors. When you have free will in this world and there are entities that want to take advantage of you and a whole community of people, then we should use it to actively engage in democratic processes to protect ourselves and generations that come after us. But if we do want to talk about faith, then let me say this. I have no faith in the desalinization project, especially now that I don't see the name plastered everywhere like it used to. You changing the way it's marketed won't change the product that you're selling. When is the right time to say that it's enough to take your losses? Would you be able to stand on the good that you're doing for your comm constituents again? If so, I propose investing in atmospheric water generators that extracts moisture from the air and converts it to clean drinking water. No pifas, lead micro organisms, contaminates detected. These machines produce 800 to 8,000 plus liters of clean drinking water daily and they can be customized as well for industrial use. There is no need to tap into our wells. No need to destroy our bay nor resort hillrest. As we all have heard, Texas administration allowed for fracking waste water to be used on farms and release it into natural waterways. Gas, water, and oil treatment companies will have immunity for any risk or damages posed by their fracking water. Our water option alternatives and safety nets are limited. Now, I plead with you to cut your losses and pivot. If you claim to be great businesses pe great business people and want to show a greater quality of life for us, prove it. Show us that you can get us out of this and get us clean drinking water that doesn't leave us in greater debt to another corporation that to an environment and affecting community that's generationally gotten the short stick. Make 2025 the year to respect your constituents and challenge yourself to work together to come up with a better, more concrete solution to our water crisis. I have faith in that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Andrea Puhol. Andrea Puol. Okay. Uh that concludes our inperson. Um Miss Worth, do we have the web video? >> I believe uh Miss Young is online. Britney Young. >> Yes. Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. Uh hello, mayor and council members. My name is Britney Young. I'm a lifelong resident of Corpus Christi and a resident of district 3. Um I do want to say thank you to the mayor for making adjustment for people to speak on agenda items and general public comment. I hope this um you know by seeing this large turnout, you really see the adjustments that need to be made to public comment and allow people to make comment on agenda items. Uh today I'm speaking to urge you to consider the direction of our city our city is heading not just regarding the proposed diesel plant in the Hillrest neighborhood but also the continued industrialization of historically black neighborhoods like Hillrest. When I attended Windsil Academy way back in the day I had a friend who lived in Hillrest. I remember asking my parents if I can go over to her home to play. My dad drove me through the neighborhood and at that time I remember seeing there was people outside. It was a really vibrant community uh out in the park, you know, people dancing, there's music going on. Um, and I remember seeing like the refineries in the background and as a kid, you know, your imagination's running wild and you think that's a city of lights. It's not a city of lights. It's a, you know, the refineries that are polluting that area. Um, as I came back to Corpus as an adult, um, and I remember driving through that neighborhood and it was like a ghost town. I didn't even recognize the neighborhood. Um, and then last year when I walked with the Hillrest residents through the neighborhood to oppose the Hillrest Delaw plant, I just remember just like rank this stank in the air, which was obviously the pollution from the refineries, and thinking, how can people breathe in this air? but they do not have the choice to not breathe the air because that neighborhood has been largely industrialized. So, I'm grateful that I don't have to live in that neighborhood, but people, as you can see, the people in uh the audience right now, they don't have that choice. So, how can the city continue to think that it's okay to reszone this area and encroach further on this neighborhood? Um, so I just propose that you know the city of Corpus Christi, you have played a hand and maybe not this city council sitting here now, but Corpus Christie has played a hand in participating in the history environmental race racism against black and brown people. Let's just call it what it is. Um, a gentleman before said in so many words, we couldn't do anything then. We basically had to accept what the city was doing to us. But in this day and age, we don't have to accept the destruction of our homes. So I urge you to vote no against reszoning this neighborhood. And we also need to stop pretending del is an option and our only option for alternative water solutions. Del is energyintensive. It's expensive to maintain and in our case is potentially dangerous knowing that there are forever chemicals in the inner harbor. Thank you. Next we have Eli McKay. >> Hello. >> Miss McKay, are you on? Okay. >> Yes, I'm here. Um, hello everyone. My name is Eli McKay and I live in beautiful uptown Corpus Christi in district 1. Uh, the purpose of public comment is to address the council, but for me it's a great opportunity to hear from our neighbors. People tend to forget um that our struggles are shared regardless of our zip code. I commend the residents who are able to attend today's circus and have their voices heard. Public comments should not be made after a vote has been taken. As I mentioned in June, you should consider holding public comment uh the night before conducting business at 5:30 on Monday, uh allowing the community to attend and speak before you make your decisions. Then, uh those of you who can still sleep at night, uh would have the opportunity to rest and reflect before you make your decisions the next day. Today's meeting really reminded me of a quote from a book that I have read this year. It's called Sacred Instructions: Indigenous Wisdom for Living Spirit-Based Change. And in it, the author Sher Mitchell says, "When people are left out of the process, they are denied the right to make decisions that affect the outcomes of their lives. Much of the conflict that exists today is caused by individuals making decisions that impact the lives of others without their consent or involvement. So we are witnessing this every single day at every level of government and the decisions being made are based on greed of a few rather than the prog progress of many. Please understand that people are paying attention and more and more are waking up to realize that change is possible and that business as usual is not working for the majority of the people. I was surprised today when council listened to the planning uh planning commission's recommendation for resoning but at the same time I would prefer it to stay zoned. It's a neighborhood. I wish that the council would have allowed the SEAK's recommendation in support of impact fees to reach them last summer. If they had, we would be in a position for that transition to take effect only three months from now. Instead, we're a long way off from prog progress. And y'all are discussing a turds in an unannixed affluent area. I'm sorry, but that just makes me so angry. I'm glad I'm not there in person. Uh, please refrain from making decisions that further strain our city's resources until you make decisions that enhance the quality of life for existing neighborhoods. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss McCay. Mayor, that concludes the virtual part of our public comment. >> Yes, >> but we do have a number of other individuals. >> And I apologize for saying we were done with in person. I'm sorry. I was looking at my list and didn't realize we have um some more upcoming here right after the two uh phone calls. >> So it would start with the purple the purple. So Mr. Parker Holt, >> right? But Mr. Mumford and Nicholls, they're not on. Okay, Mr. Halt, go ahead and come up. Rebecca, do are we marking them off the list? >> Ma'am, >> the two Mumford, >> they're not online, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Good evening. Thanks for hanging in there tonight. It's been a long one. I'm Parker Halt. I live in Austin, resident of Travis County, and I own a home in Flower Bluff. Spent a lot of time on Baffin Bay. It's a very special place. I've only got 60 seconds, so I'll get straight to the point. It is frankly unbelievable to me that in 2025 there is a single person that would even consider the idea of dumping 30 million gallons every day of industrial waste into a shallow closed waterbased system such as ours in Baffin Bay. Yet here we are. It's quite obvious tonight that there is a consensus among your constituents that this experiment will have devastating consequences for Baffin Bay. We are not wholly against desalination, but we are unequivocally opposed to the discharge of any brine water or byproducts into our base system. Period. For every person here tonight that stands in opposition to this, there are thousand countless more behind us. We ask for transparency and due diligence and your respect in finding a better solution. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Holt. Go ahead, >> Mr. Bllea. >> It's late. >> Good evening, council mayor. My name is John Blah. I'm from Rockport, Texas. I'm here today on behalf of coastal conservation association CCA Texas and 4,200 plus current active members in Corpus Christi. CCA Texas is deeply concerned about the potential impacts that Brian discharge from brackish groundwater desalinization could have on Baffin. We have released our stated position on Brian discharge for brackish groundwater production surface saline water operations. It is rooted in our long-standing commitment to a sustainable coastal fisheries and consistent with our position on previous del projects. Therefore, we urge the city to consider the following principles for all del projects. Avoid any surface discharge brine into bay systems, especially shallow, poorly flushed areas like Baffant Bay. Prioritize deep well injection offshore disposal. Require robust environmental biological reviews. meaningful public input before any approvals and continued monitoring for all approved projects. To be clear, CCA is not opposed to DESAL. We believe it can be part of the solution to meet water needs in the future, but if only done responsibly, rigorous with rigorous science, transparency, and a commitment to the preservation of health. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. Bla. uh Brian Donovan and then we'll have Jacob uh Wheelis. >> U I wanted to kind of book in this by addressing your very first speaker who wo a fantastic tale at the beginning of the meeting that >> Sir Can you state your name and city? >> Novel. My name is Brian Donovan. I'm from Rockport, Texas. U first the implication that HRI is for discharging water into BAF and Bay is false. Period. Uh the second thing is uh she had a very nice number that the amount of discharge is only 11 1 14,000th of the bay's volume. Well the natural discharge into BAF and Bay is 6 cubic meters a second. This del plant will change that to 100 or sorry to 11,500 with the possibility of that going 10fold if that thing ramps up to 40 million gallons a day. You guys need to be good neighbors to the people that are downstream from me. people who only get a minute to make their case because their lives are affected by this. Be good stewards. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Donovan. Jacob Willis. Miss Jacob Willis with us. Okay. Myra Elanise. Myra Elanise. Uh Justin Brionis. Justin Bionis. and Dakota Moberg. No, Dakota Moberg. Okay, that's it. >> Yes, ma'am. That concludes the public comment period. >> That concludes >> Did you sign in, sir? >> I I didn't sign in because I didn't know that it changed. I've been out of town. >> I asked some of the council to visit with us in Hillrest and I wasn't able to attend that because I attend Yeah. >> to a funeral, >> but I didn't There been so many this weekend. >> I know. >> And and we're going to allow it because of all those changes and I apologize for that. So, come on up and and and speak. Just your name and city, please. >> My name is Daniel P. Le Corbish Christie and Hillrest. Uh I don't know because I I it sounded like you guys voted already on some of the uh on the reszoning. I don't know. >> We have another vote. >> Okay. So, if I can comment on that first and foremost, uh, we we visited with the port and, uh, the port showed us some maps, detailed maps in color and and and they claimed that they got them from the city of Corpus Christi. My concern there is that when they share these maps with you, you know, some of some of the inconsistencies of what they've told them told us of the places that they're they want to reszone. Uh Broadway for one and claiming that they are already uh were L1. And so I own a property on there and then I know the properties that were sold next to me were not L1. They were multif family. they were, you know, single R1. And so the fact that they're blending them together, saying that these are all L1, you know, we're going to try to to reszone them to an L3 or, you know, an R, what is it? Anyway, the heavy industrial. So anyway, I I just want you to be aware of that. I want you to if you would do do what you have to do to find out because I know just by what they showed us that those are not correct. Even the ones that they want to uh redo from Wnebago towards the port, some of those are mislabeled because they're thinking they're going to change them. I know they're L1, but some of those are still residential. They haven't been changed in their map or their presentation that they're going to show you because they showed it to us. They're already reszoned. So, you know, I I just I'm I'm asking you to please look at those maps, you know, do what needs to be done so you can so you can know there are inconsistencies in those in those uh in those maps, you know, and and I know that cuz they they invited us. We saw it and I want to thank you. Thank you for those of you that went out, you know, to come and uh talk to us in our neighborhood. Uh, as far as the uh the streets, you know, we we've been mentioning Broadway. There seems to be a confusion. We're talking about Broadway incomplete. We're not just talking about Broadway from Port under the bridge. We're talking about Broadway all the way to Oasis Bay is being closed. >> No, I don't I don't know. I don't know who's doing it. It's a pipeline going coincidentally going to the area where it's going where the del supposed to be and and the street is closed. I can't maintain my property because I can't get to it. So, you know, that was the other thing. And of course, like I said, that the uh there's so many things in our neighborhood. Uh we didn't ask for this. You know, we certainly weren't uh nobody came to visit us and told us what the plans were or how we felt about it. We've been let we for years we've been told they're going to they're going to rehab. They're going to help our neighborhood. They're going to help our neighbors. and and and millions, I'm not going to say hundreds, millions of dollars have been spent on studies to see what they could do and and they're all available to you guys. I mean, we've been told many times that they're going to help and and then now we're down to >> Thank you, Mr. Pñena. Thank you, sir. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Do you have a problem >> zoned correctly? Is that what you said, council? to make >> I just want to make sure that that u you know if he's mentioned that some of these are still under residential and the port is showing as light industry I'd like to confirm that >> yeah we Michael Dice will do that for us >> okay thank you >> I ask one question you had mentioned that Texas says you cannot have heavy industrial next to the bridge and the port keeps saying we already have heavy industrial we just want to add to it so what happens to that heavy industrial under the bridge Why why don't we if you don't mind sir we're going to recess for five minutes because we've got to come back in the meeting but in the meantime um our city manager and staff can address that. Thank you sir. So, we're going to recess and we'll be back in five minutes, maybe X. Okay, we're going to call the meeting back to order. Pick up where we left off, I don't know, three hours ago, I think now. And um we are in question and answer on the del excuse me the deselin nation um inner harbor update and we had who was up though wasn't somebody up when no but >> Kaitlin was up >> before you Kaylin yeah were you >> you can come back to us okay Councilman Hernandez >> okay so hopefully you remember where we were on on some of this stuff Um when when Frieza Nichols did their project, I mean did the initial thing and they contract subcontracted to plumber we got a technical document that showed kind of all the details of the modeling for the coremix modeling. Are we not going to get that for this farfield modeling or the mic 3 modeling? >> So so as I mentioned earlier u the deliverable out of this project was is is a design. Now uh we will work with Kiwit and GHD when the modeling is complete. We we can produce a report that will show you the findings. Uh and as I mentioned earlier, the mic the the model itself, the coding that goes into it to run the model is proprietary, but the data that comes out of it and the information we will put into a report and we will share with this council uh and the public. >> Okay. I'm I'm assuming since we paid for this, it should be made available to the public. >> So So what we paid for is a design and they're going to deliver that. So we will we will get what we pay for in the design, but Kiwit and GHD they're >> So you're not going to you're not going to do a a a third party verification or what do they call it when you engineer does a >> a peer review? >> Peer review. >> Yeah. So we we don't we're not planning on doing any peer reviews. >> We're just going to take it for >> for face value. >> Well, it's not face value. We have professionals uh performing the modeling and delivering a design and we're and they're professional engineers. >> We we had professionals telling us to drill wells closer to to Matthysse and we ignored them. >> I I don't know anything about that, but this >> that'll be a question for Drew. >> Yeah. >> Um okay. If GHD is is wrong on here, will they be liable for any anything associated with that? >> So, our contract is with Kwit. So, if >> will Kwit be liable? >> Kiwit is liable for delivering the project. And when we establish those requirements in the construction contract, they will they will have to meet those terms. >> Question is, if it's wrong, will they be liable? >> Keywood is going to be liable for uh anything that is harmful to the environment. If the production of the plant doesn't work uh per the contract, they will be held liable. >> Okay. Um the I notice on the presentation they did not have mentioned oysters on uh on the farfield model results. So I mean we're I know there's a lot of effort to recede oysters in December but there was no mention of it. >> Yes. Um, six years ago when we were doing the initial environmental review, we looked at the distribution of oyster reefs in the system and there are no oyster reefs uh in the inner harbor. Um and we we are aware that there is considerable effort right now uh out of heart research using save our shucks trying to restore reefs uh in the in the variet the different systems. >> Okay. In in discussion with individuals at the heart research institute they were concerned that a higher salinity levels uh are detrimental to oysters that they're more susceptible to parasites. Did you provide did you look into that at all as to how that would affect >> Well, that's that's one of the reasons the inner harbor is being considered as an as an area suitable for del is because there are no oyster reefs in the inner harbor. >> Well, a lot of the there is a power plant there that was recently purchased by CPS that takes a lot of water out of the inner harbor and puts it into Noises Bay. Did that was that taken into consideration? >> Yes. And no concern about salinity levels in Oasis Bay. >> Um, how much volume is the the pilot plant doing >> and and they can confirm this, but I believe we're about half MGD a day. Where's Joe Miller? Okay. Cuz the photo here shows one uh it looks like a single box uh container box. Is that all that is part of the >> So that's just one image as representative of what you'll see out there. And just to correct, we're actually at about 165 U GPM. Uh but the um you're going to have multiple of those. I don't and I don't have it in this presentation, Councilman, but if you remember my previous uh graphic that showed the uh proposed layout of the pilot, we're going to have multiple shipping crates like that. >> How many? >> Dozen. >> So, >> roughly a dozen. >> Okay. Um, what what volumes were you assuming when you're doing the modeling? Was it the actual production or I mean, >> and Councilman, just before you answer, can I guess can you be a little more specific because there's a lot of different in inputs and and outputs. So >> well I mean uh obviously we have you know the variation that you you had mentioned about the salinity levels uh well I mean we've been monitoring those salenity levels for decades and it varies depending on where you're at how shallow water is noisy bay I mean if you're doing the farfield model only in the inner harbor how does the salinity levels in noises bay affect you know the the variation there in with additional salenity levels coming from the inner harbor Uh yeah, we modeled we did a model at the final production capacity of 30 MGD. We did go up and down a little bit, but the diffuser design and the plant design were optimized at the 30 MGD scenario. We did include uh the water coming the volume of water coming from the inner harbor into Noasis Bay, but we didn't model the salinity in Noasis Bay. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Vaughn. I'm going to try and make mine short and quick since it's so late and I hope I can remember. Um, first off, thank you for the little bucket illustration. I think that helps because it kind of dumbed it down and the truth of the matter is most of us need it dumbed down whether you admit it or not. The technical, I get why you did so technical, but we probably didn't understand half of it. I'm speaking for myself. The rest of them probably won't admit it. Okay. Um, I want to ask a question about the CC Palmer because that was actually on my list. So, I was glad y'all brought that up. How far is CC Palmer from the Delaw plant? >> Uh, you know what? I I'll get back to you with an exact distance, but it's about it's about 5 miles or so. >> An estimate's good. Okay. Yeah. >> The reason I ask is because you guys said that you put that in there. So, did you include the whole thing? If they were to produce, they're not doing that right now, but if they were to produ produce the 30 MGD for the salinity, did y'all the impact that it would have, was that all did you figure out it was would be 30 MGD if they ever got it going? >> We did. I I'll tell you what we what we included. Um, and I'm going to read it off my little notes here, okay? >> So, I'll get the numbers right for you. So the scenario that we included right now as the CC polymers plant sits it's an 8 MG facility at a 40% recovery. So we included Corpus Christi polymers with an intake flow rate of 32 33.25 MGD. So this assumes and this is from their permit. So this assumes they're operating an 8 MGD production facility with a 40% recovery. >> So an 8 MGD diesel plant with a 40% recovery. So the discharge that we included uh was 36.5 mgd. So 24.5 of that wasn't the brine. 245% of that was a mix of cooling water and production water and the rest of it was brine from the from the diesel plant. >> Okay. You want to explain that to me? >> Sorry. >> You want to explain that to me? What's the impact? >> You're you're saying there is no impact after putting all that in there. We put it all in the model. The results you saw today included that >> because there is there is as much or more water that's coming back in that isn't saline loaded. It actually self-dilutes before it hits the inner harbor. >> So there isn't a cumulative impact that affects the inner harbor caused by CC polymers with the rates that they have with what's on the ground right now as built and in their TCQ permit. Okay. Where these numbers came from. >> Okay. And and y'all hired was it GHD that did the model? Oh, with GHD. Yes. >> GHD. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I have a problem with the intellectual property. And I'm thinking, did you get paid to do the model? >> We did get paid to do the model. >> So, why would it be your intellectual property now? Why would it not be ours since you were paid to do the model? >> Don't we own that if we paid for it? >> Again, we paid for a design. We didn't pay for the model. So, they are producing a design deliverable for us and they're using the model to help generate that design. So, they're going to deliver a design drawing that shows the diffuser uh design and and for construction that will actually be able to meet or exceed, as you heard today, the uh permit. >> Okay, that to me is just word salad. I just think that we should should know what that is. I'm sorry. I'm just not getting the information, but that's okay. That's what y'all are saying. So, there's nothing I can do about that. Um the other thing, when you did the data, did y'all use existing data? Did you use the data that Freeze and Nickels had already given or did you get new data? >> A combination of all of all of the above. >> So you use theirs too in your >> We used theirs as well. We used we used all the data we could find. We used Frieza nickels data. We used some data from the port, some data from Noah. We have a subscription that we pay for that gets us a range of hydrodnamic data from different places. And we also used um data from uh uh from some ADCPS that were deployed by um Flint Hills. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh Brett, the thing that I have for you is that 60% Dign that's going to for July the 25th July that we're going to vote on. >> Let me just say this. I'm not against DEL. I've said that many many times and it I'm for it for the right price in the right place and it's safe. But for us to approve a 60, this is for me. A design that we don't know what the del is going to cost. I can't do that. I'm just giving you heads up right now. I want to know what the design's going to cost because we're saying it could be 50 60 million. We should have a set price what that's going to be before we're asked to approve it. I mean, in a business, that's what you would do. So, I'm just telling you ahead so you know to be prepared because I can't vote for something that I don't know what the cost is. I wouldn't do that if I purchased a house. I mean, I'd want to know what the cost is before I sign the contract. >> Yes, ma'am. So, again, on the 22nd, we're going to present the cost model. >> Okay. >> So, you'll be able to hear the the construction cost, >> the um design cost >> and um um assistance from our owner agent, Freeze Nichols. So, that'll all be discussed on the 22nd. Then, on the 29th, when I bring that um design amendment request, You'll have a cost for the design to take us from where we are today to a 60%. So you will know the projected cost based on 10%. >> And you'll know the cost of the design to get us to the guaranteed maximum price. >> And so will that cost include beginning to the end because you know you're going to have to have pipes, tanks, whatever you're going to have. Is that cost? It's not just going to be the del. It's delivering from we start it goes to the end to where it's delivered. >> The what you'll see on the 22nd is allin. So it's >> what it costs to get the job done, design and construction. >> That's what I want to know. >> Yes, ma'am. Thanks. >> Can I just add to that though? But that that's at 10% designed. >> So at the 10% design, this is what the estimated cost is and the the the goal is is that they design more of it. The cost would come down. So it's based on more assumptions than not this cost that we're going to give next week. But as they refine the design and get real bid pricing from subcontractors, generally the price comes down if you remember that kind of that cone. Yeah. So the price we're going to show you the price as of a 10% design which is highly undesigned. Right. So as more and more of it's designed and more information is obtained by Kwit, the price should come down some. So, so we're saying it's going to be a >> we're saying it's going to be a 10% design, not a 60% design. >> Yeah. >> It'll be what the cost will be based on 10% design. So, what I present on the 22nd, that cost is based on 10% design. >> Based on 10%. >> Right. So Peter's just saying that through this process, we're going to continue to get smarter, refine the cost, and as we move to the next uh steps in the design, we're going to come back and typically and we expect the cost to continue to go down as we get smarter. >> Okay. >> And that's what Peter's trying to convey. >> I appreciate you clarifying that, >> right? Yeah. I want to make sure. And then the the so then on the last meeting of the July the action in front of the council is to take the design from a contractual standpoint from 10% to 60%. >> Okay. >> You would approve you could consider approving a contract amendment. So they continue the design work to get to from 10% to 60%. >> Okay. >> And we'll have the price for that. Brett will show it next week and then we'll have it again on the 20 whatever that day is. The last two >> the 29th. >> 29th. >> Yes sir. And those details are important. So I appreciate you clarifying. >> That's why I know it's late, too. So I want to make sure we get it. Yeah. >> I'm reading 60%. I think most of us are here, >> right? >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. Quick question. So we heard a lot about salinity earlier or here just recently. So what is the salinity range or what salinity range do do this the do different types of species currently see in the bay and in my in our bay system currently and then you know the second part of the question would be how does our project affect that that range >> so the species that are in the bay they see the range that has been measured o over decades now. So it ranges from as low as 20 parts per thousand to as high as 42 parts per thousand on some occasions. So all the species in the bay uh encounter that range at some at some time. I mean some fish only live two or three years. They may never see that entire range, but longerlived fish will live throughout the entire range. >> And so how does the second part of it was how how does this project does it affect that? >> It the project is not going to affect that range because we're talking about uh the project changing the salinity less than one part per thousand. So you're talking about changing the range from 20 to 42 to potentially changing the range from 21 to 43. And the the higher limit rarely or rarely happens. >> And so the the organisms that live in the bay, you're not talking about a significant change. One thing I would also mention when we're talking about measuring a half a part per thousand, when you talk about going out in the field and measuring it with a a meter, the meter that's about within the range of the accuracy of the meter. So when I could go out with my meter and measure, somebody else could go out with their meter and measure. I might get 30.5, they might get 30. And in in reality when we're talking about half a part per thousand, >> it's um it it's hard to say that that is that you've measured a real difference in the environment. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Did that make sense? >> Yes. Yes, it does. Thank you. >> Uh council Councilman Betta. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um I I I want to touch base on paying for the farfield study or paying for the farfield study or doing the model. You know, in our business, you know, we pay for software. We don't share it with anybody. We just basically come up with the results. Most of the time, people aren't interested in how we put it together. Uh what is it? And financing healthcare is very complex. So, you know, and there's more expensive software I could buy and there's less expensive software I could buy. Give me an example of other other proprietary designs that you've dealt with. Say for example, Greenwood wastewater treatment plant or you know where we haven't asked for they're they're using this information to be able to come up with their design. Yeah, I think that's I mean you could probably look at any type of project but usually a lot of the engineers are going to have a way by which they uh develop their designs for a project in your example for the plant and the different systems. Uh in our normal process you would get a design deliverable um that would be produced stamped and provided to the city. Um, so this is pretty standard. I imagine if you were trying to um build a structure and you were actually doing the math to develop the the columns, the beams and all that, you're using algorithms that maybe they've come up with, but you don't you don't ever see that. What you see is a final design deliverable showing you the size of the columns, the spacing of the columns, etc. So, you know, what they're doing for the modeling is pretty consistent on what you would expect for any design deliverable for a for a project. And and the guarantee is the engineer stamp. >> That's right. Yeah, that's right. >> You know, and their reputation, their ability to deliver it. >> Absolutely. >> Because they're guaranteeing that they're going to provide us with a product. >> That's right. >> With or or facility. >> All right. Um, so, um, another thing that I guess that this is obviously, you know, I I I hated what your slide where you put normal delivery method and I spoke about that, you know, two weeks ago or three weeks ago, whenever it was. Um, so let's go to a normal hard bid. So we we employ an engineer to design. We assume because there's often times that we go with a Put the timer out for me. I just want to be conscientious for everybody. What is it? Um um so we assume that we're going to we're we're we're making an estimate as to what the the cost for design is. Sometimes we're higher, sometimes we're lower. If we're lower, then we utilize that money to put back in the bond project. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah. So then we do the hard bid. We do, you know, design, build, bid, and just like Greenwood wastewater treatment plant comes out $40 million over. I I just didn't see in that particular instant. I keep throwing that out there because it's fresh in my mind and this council approved it. We didn't say, "Forget it. We're not going to do it." We just went ahead and said, "We got to do it. We're we're we're we're obligated to do it. Complete it." So, uh, happened with the police training academy. We redesigned it. I would argue that it still costs the same, but we redesigned it, you know, uh, water garden. Give me some other examples >> of of projects that, uh, came in over. I mean, I would I Councilman, I can't really think of any off top of my head, but what I can >> Yeah. Yeah. The U chlorine uh production production plant that we're going to be doing at Owen Stevens. >> Oh, yeah. >> That came in quite quite a bit more than the original price. Next week, there's something on the city council agenda for the um brush recycling, the mulching compost facility. That's 1.5 million over the engineers's estimate. So, that's another example that's on city council agenda next week. So I I guess my point is I'm trying to make that this isn't unusual and the challenge is is that we're dealing with a potentially billion dollar facility. So obviously the numbers are much larger. And so that's one reason why we employ, you know, world-class designers, you know, from all over the world to be able to put this together. And it just amazes me that I mean I understand it's it's the all the conrnation we're scrutinized this more than we scrutinize you know any other project that we've ever had. Can you name me any other project that you know of in your career that's been scrutinized to this level? Uh Drew, yourself included. >> No, I mean with my tenure with the city, we've we've never provided the level of information we have on this one and and the level of what I believe trans transparency for it. So >> All right. All right. Thank you very much. And if I may, Councilman, just to point out, I mean, with your examples on the cost, um, we are learning about the cost earlier than you would on your normal process, when you do design bid, build, you usually don't find out until design's complete. You've gone out for, uh, for bids, and then you find out a number. We're actually learning the number as we go. And, um, we're able to talk through it, um, value engineer, and and do good design to try to drive that cost down. So, I just wanted to point that out. And and you know, one of the reasons I've always been a favorite, and I know not everybody is, you know, but it it provides us with a ton of predictability because we're involved to the process throughout the entire design period, and there's an individual that's going to give us a guaranteed maximum price. Plus, in addition, are are we going to be able to recapture the savings? Just just to say it again, in the event that it comes below the guaranteed maximum price, >> that is an option that we would have to negotiate with uh Kiwit when we get to that point. >> All right. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Thank you very much, >> Councilman Kentu. I'm sorry. >> Oh, were you? >> Um I'm going to skip and come back. Okay. >> Okay. >> I need to get my thoughts. >> Count Councilwoman Compos. Thank you, mayor. Um, on these type of of projects, um, yeah, we do we're public, right? So, we we scrutinize because, you know, we have to watch out. So, I'm just wondering um for for this these uh companies um it just so happened that one of um one of the commenters uh gave us a list of the 12 desalination plants and I'm just wondering if all of these I don't know if I can say them but Rasa Alair Jabel Ali deselination I don't know they seem to be all um you know from Egypt. Are were these public private? I would imagine they're private companies. These are private desalinations. So um these the ones that uh that we have here in the United States, the Carl'sbad and the one in Florida. It's Aren't they privately? >> Those are both private. Yes, >> that's what I thought. So this is going to be the very first one. No. Um, Drew is naughty. No, >> not not the first one. So, the city of Santa Barbara is owned by the city of Santa Barbara. >> How long ago was that? >> Uh, it was um probably seven, eight years ago. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And and has that continued to operate, you know, uh, efficiently or? To >> to my knowledge, it it's operated very well. Well, I mean, the city of Santa Barbara has an interesting story because they were looking at del back in the late 80s when there was major drought >> and they uh started to build it and then they got a lot of rain in the '9s and into the early 2000s and then uh Mayor Helen Schneider at the time in 2014 2015 she decided she must have had some kind of premonition because she decided to put the del plant into operation. She had to spend some capital to invest in it to bring it back. it had never run before. Um, and so she brought it back and it's been running since I want to say 2015, 2016. So, it's a desalination plant uh, owned by the city of Santa Barbara. >> Okay. Well, I had not and and I guess it it was not that I guess the ones that I have heard is the one from Carlsbad in Florida. But I guess my main thing is um for my opposition uh from the from the get-go is what this will do to this region. um the the bringing of the you know desalination plant into our area because as we know um industry keeps coming to our area and and keeps getting built and built and we keep getting promised that oh if we just build one more you know we're going to achieve that but you know I know that this right now is uh with the science part and you know you're you're getting paid you're not going to tell us something that we're not going to want to hear. I mean, you know, let's face it, you're you're being paid um to tell us that we're going to make this work no matter what. But let's just say because what I have heard is that the best way uh for a desalination plant to work would be to have a discharge in the Gulf of Mexico, not in the inner harbor. So why would you not I mean I'm just saying if you if you could I guess if you if there was a money unlimited why wouldn't you um decide to build or have the discharge out there as opposed to here? Is it because you're limited with what you have to work with that you're going to make it work no matter what? Is that what you're >> Well, one thing I would say kind of the response to your earlier comment is I was asked to be an expert witness for the city of Liberty Hill on an algae control project. And they called me and they said, "We need somebody who can talk about algae." And I said, "I'm not your person because you have an algae problem and I'm not going to be able to be an expert witness and say you don't have an algae problem." So, we don't always do what somebody wants wants to pay us to do. Regarding an offshore brine discharge, where do all these shellfish and fish spawn? They spawn in the Gulf of Mexico where you're talking about putting a brine discharge. And so I know there are a lot of arguments for putting a brine discharge in the Gulf. But I asked myself ecologically, if that's where my larvel forms are being born, why do I want to put that salinity change there instead of the inner harbor which was constructed to function and support industrial purposes and which we all which has what's designated as an intermediate aquatic life use, which means that The state recognizes that the system does not support the same variety and numbers of fish and shellfish that are supported in the bay, the open bay, which has a high aquatic life use. So I think you certainly there are arguments that can be made about putting it offshore but I think there are strong arguments that support putting it in an industrialized channel where there's no recreational fishing there's no commercial fishing and as the modeling has showed and I believe the modeling it shows that there's not going to be any impact from the del facility outside that inner harbor. And so that's why I don't I don't believe offshore uh our Gulf uh discharge in this particular case is a is a reasonable option and and cost. I know people talk about cost. That's you know I don't know anything about cost but that I hope that answers your question. >> Uh yes and no. But back to the Santa Barbara example, um I was just informed that that that plant is only at 3 million MGD. So maybe that's why it wasn't, you know, something that you're that that um that we're facing. I mean, in comparison to what we're trying to do here, you know, with the 30 MGD ver I mean, to me, that's like a pilot, you know. So I I don't think there's any comparison. Anyway, I think I'm almost out of time, but um again, uh thank you for your expertise. I I I I really do appreciate that you were, you know, fair and honest and say, "No, I'm not your person for the algae. You need to get somebody else." So, thank you, >> Councilman Scott. >> I had to laugh with Eric yawning. My my Apple Watch is going to go off in 11 minutes telling me it's bedtime. So, just uh a couple quick questions. Uh on slide 15 it talks about the initial dilution and then the the mixing zones. Just tell me again is that the first one's 50 feet away right from the diffuser and then the uh aquatic life mixing mixing zone is how far 200 and then the last one's 400 right so it's 50 that's all right 50 two and four that's that's weird that I'm is that that's okay I'm not going to ask any questions about it that's the number okay >> so I I'm going to run through this it's disjointed but you know so let me tell you my takeaway 400 million iterations. That's a lot. So, that was impressive to me. I wrote 400 million iterations, no adverse impacts to the bait. And I wrote and counting. I'm just curious, how many iterations do you think you guys are going to hit before I mean you the more the marrier unless we're paying and then >> Yeah. No, we um what we're doing is um and I I described it as a year-long model. So what we do is we've set the model up to iterate uh across all the different all the different mesh that we've built and all the different depth profiles, the horizontal like the Rubik's cubes and all the different things we've introduced. So the current, the flow, all the different ambient conditions, the um uh the wind, everything that's contributing to the evaporation, the tides and so forth. And uh we run that on 30 secondond time steps continually over a 365day period. So nominally we've got a 2024 year from January 1st to December 31st. And um >> hey Chris explain that because what we heard earlier today was you ran this model for 12 months which you didn't right because you only been running it. >> Yeah. And it's a 12-month output. So, if you think about it like you watch, the simplest way to think about it is if you you turn on a Netflix show and it doesn't pick up the same spot you were at and you fast forwarded it to the hour and 16 minutes into the movie. That's what we do. So, we have some very powerful computers >> and it runs these iterations over these 30 secondond intervals >> really quickly. So, it takes five to six days. Just want to clear that out. >> So, the output is a year worth of data at 30-cond intervals. >> I I think it's impressive. I I like your and let me just go down. Um I'd like you said basically fill the ship channel with Rubik's Rubik's cubes. Rubik's cubes >> Rubik's cubes and then just start turning one then another and then um I think that's impressive. You said year >> I got my data. >> Um look, so I I wrote a note. I I I don't need I don't know that I care to see your um >> your software, but I do think you guys ought to put a report basically what you just said. said, "Hey, look, I've got a we got a really powerful computer. The key is the data." And like you just said, we're going to have wind, and it's it's the wind based on these three different sources uh over a and we do a 30- secondond intervals. Then we have the tide, then we have the water, and then we have the I I think there's a there's a report in there somewhere that will give us comfort that you guys weren't at a a bar last night, you know, uh putting this together. So, I'm I'm going to encourage you to put some sort of report together. I don't need to know what's proprietary, but I think it I think if you guys could do that would be helpful. But also, by the way, it helps us communicate with the public. I think it's really kind of cool to go, let me tell you what these guys did and and to show all the different sources you got and then some, I suspect, overlap because there multiple sources with the same data. Um, but but I do think there's there's a report in there that we'd like to see. Last question because I think last question is uh for you uh Brett. So on the 29th you're going to say, "Hey, we want per we want you to vote yes to spend $10 to get us to 60%." There's a there's a number, right? There's an amount because I think that was the question that that that I was hoping to see is that you're going to ask us to fund a certain amount to get it to 60%. And you're not just going to say, "Hey, I need your permission to go to 60%." >> No, no, no. We're we're going to come with a number. Got it. >> And the and the backup to support it. >> All right. Awesome. Thanks. That was a great presentation. >> Thanks, >> Councilman Kentu. >> Couple questions. Um, on the 26, you said >> 22nd. Next 20 22nd, we're going to approve, you're going to come and ask for 50 million, right? >> Okay. So, the 29th will will come with the design amendment. >> Okay. >> So, that that'll be the last council meeting of the month. So the design limit will be you said 50 million. >> So I I don't have a final number yet. >> That's right. I remember. Okay. Okay. >> Right. So we're working through that with them right now. >> But you're going to give us a guaranteed price for the whole project. >> No. So on July 29th, we're going to come in with an amendment to take us from 10% design, which is where we currently are, to 60% design. So the the money that I'm asking for is for them to do the design to take us from that point >> 60%. >> When they finish the 60% design, they're going to develop a guaranteed maximum price and then that will be brought back to city council and we're going to say the phase two which is construction will cost this amount of money. >> So for the so the $50 million more or less, we're not going to have a price yet. >> That is just for design work. Now, through that process, we're going to be updating the cost model. So, we'll continue to see updates to that number as we approach the guarantee maximum price. >> Councilman, next week we're going to have a a rough estimate for the full cost of the construction, but realize it's only 10% designed. So, it's u you generally >> just just my concern. I think my concern is the same thing as >> Councilwoman Vaughn is we're going to tell you guys to spend 50 million, but we don't even know how much we're going to we're going to spend on this project. And it could I'm just throwing a crazy number out there. $2 billion. Just say that. It's not going to be two billion, but just say it's $2 billion. We give you 50 million and and then two billion is out of our budget. So we lose 50 million plus whatever else we lose. I mean, that's that's a little concerning. I mean, that's a lot of money. I'm just throwing those facts out there. I mean, I know it's not going to be $2 billion. Um, but I'm just throwing that number because I heard 1.1, I heard 1.2, 1.4. So, we don't even know how much it is. You know, I know it's up there. >> Um, >> so, Councilman, that the next Tuesday, the 22nd, when we do the cost model, we'll show you the all-in number, which will include the estimated cost for that design amendment. And we're going to come back the very next week and we're actually going to present the uh design amendment to the council for review and approval. >> And I am I am for del. I want del. I want all water sources, but I want it safe and affordable for the rate payers. That's all I'm asking for. And I'm really concerned about Michael Miller's spreadsheet. I really want you guys to look into this because if this is right, we're paying $40 million per 1 million gallons a day. Like that's that's 40 million to get 1 million gallons a day. It's This is bizarre. My opinion, I mean, that's I it has to be wrong. I mean, that's that's a lot of money. $40 million. >> Yeah, Councilman, we're going to we'll meet with Michael. We nobody here on the city staff has seen that document that was produced about few hours ago. >> That's a lot of money, you know, and just >> we can't say it's right or wrong. We He's not talked to us. So I >> I mean I get it. We need water, but I mean that's a lot of money. Um why can't you give us the data that we paid for? >> Uh Councilman, we paid >> Well, not we but the taxpayers paid for it. So why can't why why can't we get that data? I I so >> I understand the software but my understanding on these models is is it's it's a software but it it shows throughout the like it like it shows like a graphics like like live graphics on it and if I'm not mistaken that's what these models are if I'm not mistaken >> it's a bunch of algorithms and a program that >> are we going to get those algorithms and all that stuff? >> No. No. Now the data output. >> Why can't they come to city council and do a do a um bring their computer and show us on the screens. >> So Councilman, we still need to talk about what the report looks like and what we share in it. Uh I I don't know if D sharing the data makes sense if you don't know how we got the data if we can't show you the algorithms and how we got to each one of those. But we still need to go back and talk about what that looks like and come back and and share what we believe would be a good report and and and we can work with council to figure out if the information is accurate. I mean, I haven't talked to Peter about that, but >> I don't understand why we can't see it. I just >> Well, I just don't know if it makes sense if I just >> What about this? Can we send give that data to a third party to look at it? >> I I think we still need to talk about exactly what we're going to share. I I don't I don't think we have an objection to sharing the data. It's just difficult to give you a bunch of numbers and you don't know how we can >> What about it to a third party that the council approves? >> Is that something that we can do? >> Um we'd have to defer to we'd have to ask Kiwit and the sub subcontractor, but I think what we're saying, Councilman, is we're going to the question of what do we provide to satisfy the council is not answered. And what we're hearing is you, the council, wants to have some type of report, maybe even a presentation on it. >> That too, but I think I think we should >> and not delaying the project, but just just giving it to a third party so a third party could look at it. >> Okay, let us take that. No, because because one of the one of the complaints we have in public comment in the public is and they're right, you know, we're not we should have gave this to a third party to do the farfield study, not in-house, not with, you know, they have they have a special interest in it. You know, I mean, it's just it's a no-brainer. Yeah, we're gonna we don't have the answer right now, but we hear the council uh and we're going to bring something back uh to get your feedback on what >> and I heard you guys say I've been doing this farfield study for one year, but >> three months not a year. >> No, what Chris is saying is that he he was able to take a year's worth of data over and again it's kind of >> in aggregate over 34 years, but he's able to run a model in six days and it's able to demonstrate that data over a year span. So, it's not We didn't spend a year doing it. >> Understand? >> It took six days to produce. How many days? >> Six days. >> How long you been How long you been working on the model, Chris? Our model, >> developing it. >> Uh, we've been developing it since um Oh, goodness. about a month or six weeks before we were here last. We'd done we'd done some initial model development. >> Um, yeah. So, so the output, just to clarify, the output is a year's worth of output at 30-cond intervals. So the model doesn't take a year to run. We accelerate that. So it's and it accurately simulates a model and we've tested that against data that Noah has collected and that Flint Hills has collected from actual real world and we're within we're very close within mean average error. >> Okay. I just I just feel more comfortable giving it to a third party just just for their eyes and make sure everything's good and not delaying the project, not stopping the project, not doing all this before they come after us. We're trying to stop the project. We just wanted to see it have a third party see it and that's it. Done over with like you know. So, okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Councilman Roy, he hasn't spoken yet. Um, just real quick, I can't remember the gentleman's name that gave us a class. I think he met with us one on- one and then he met with council as a group a few weeks ago. >> What's his name? >> And he explained the design build process. What was his name? >> Lewin Clark. >> Yeah. So he went through 44 pages of presentation and one of the things that he said is exactly what's going on right now because he said from the beginning he said you're going to sit there and when you're at the 10% and as we go through this model the the cost is going to be here and as we get through this process he said we're going to be able to hone in. It's going to be higher, but then it's going to hone in and become more um accurate as we go through. No. Right. >> Correct. >> And he said we're going to freak out in the process. So that's going to happen. Everybody's going to freak out because there's going to be conjecture in terms of trying to figure out what they think the dollar amount is. Just call that guy up and tell him he's right. Um and and I appreciate him because, you know, I was listening. I listened to him twice. I listened to him when we met with him one-on-one and I listen to him again. Um, so that's interesting. I also just in an analogy and I don't go to bars much, but when I do go to a bar and a guy makes me an oldfashioned, right, one of the things I'm concerned with is at the end what it tastes like. But man, most of the time I'm not sitting there going, "How much did you put in this? How much did you put in that?" My my faith is is that at the end of the day, I'm going to have this oldfashioned and hopefully it's going to be acceptable to my pallet, right? And I just want to remind council of that because the bottom line is is that that's how we're trying to go through this process. We put checks and balances in this council was very smart. They went through and they said a week ago or so, hey, we want to make sure that we can control Peter's spending, that we have a say in this because we want to make sure that we do the right thing for our constituents and we watch spending. So, we put those things in place. I really do believe this council is going to do the right thing as we go forward. I'm just asking just kind of remember if you haven't maybe go back and look at that presentation and remember the steps that it's taking for us to go from A to B to C to D and and remember that so that we hopefully it's we're going to freak out anyway but maybe just not as much. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Bond. >> I think that this project has been scrutinized as it should be. It's $1.2 2 billion dollars is what we're thinking or more or less. We don't know. That's fair. The public should it should be scrutinized. I think to appease everybody and I think we talked about this on Sunday, Drew. We got to have some kind of analysis that we can talk to the public about. The port did it on their farfield study, read it, understood it, and I think that's what we need. And I think that's just what the council's asking for so that we can talk to the public. They can see something because we're not going to understand all the technical. There's no way. That's that's what I'm asking for. Thanks. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah, I agree with you, uh, Councilwoman, but the the other thing I'll say is I'm and I'm not sure where is 1.2 coming from. Where is two I know you just you're being hypothetical, but let's let's get this real straight on the record. No one has told us how much this is going to be. That's a question. No. Right. You have said >> how many years ago did we say 757? >> Yeah. >> How many years ago was that? >> 2023. >> 2023 the only number given to any council was 757 million. Now fast forward no one has given us a number. And I know you don't mean to say that's the number >> from who? >> Yes. Who gave a Who gave that to you? >> Well, I'm That's what I'm wondering about. Why are people talking about numbers when I've never gotten a number? >> Oh, but Councilwoman, we can't we can't by who? >> So, it should be correct. I mean, >> so you >> have y'all said one? >> I haven't shared any number. No. >> Well, look, I I've never been told. So, that's why I'm wondering where you got 1.2. And I don't think you did, but I think people are >> Hang on a second. >> Yeah. >> Okay. You know what my point is? This, no one has come before this council as we sit here, you know, every Tuesday and said there's numbers. So, I just want to clarify. If that was said, I'm sorry, guys. If if that was said somewhere by count by city staff, then yeah, I want to know who said it because nobody told me. And so I think it's important as we are sitting here going through a uh design process model that is supposed to be working towards the lowest number which is why this is a difficult concept for us to grasp especially on the you know it's we're talking a huge we're not we don't deal with these kinds of projects we deal I mean we do we've got the waters some water projects that are We don't >> we don't >> right we don't so so it is a different concept to grasp and when we use a model that we don't ever use we typically use design build bid build or build whatever design build >> design bid build you have >> bid build we're used to seeing here's your price go build the street here's your price go build the water plant or what have you so this is very different and I think it's important to note that the reason and that's why I'm I hope y'all haven't been saying some number that hasn't been presented to the council as a whole >> because the whole point if I can finish the whole point to this model >> is to get it down >> to the 757 that would be ideal but that's the whole point to this model so I'm just I I hear people talking about numbers not just necessarily like out and about and I'm thinking well where where are these numbers coming from because nobody's ever Yeah, we haven't told the council. I I'm going to speak for myself. I don't know what Brett has told people, but um as we've known that the 757 is not the number that it's too low. >> Uh some council members have asked me what does the number look like? Is it 1.8? Is it 1.5? And so there's been a general understanding of what it could be. Uh we've used 1.3, we've used 1.2. These are not official numbers obviously and they haven't been presented to the council. Next week we'll present a cost model number that is going to be the official number. Um so the the numbers have some education behind them. They're not official and when people have council members have asked me uh they're unofficial you know estimates of the time. That's one reason why a team of us went up to the design studio kiwit and value engineered a lot of stuff off the project to begin to bring down the price. So we we know just like Brett said of the actually Barrerero was saying it is that we know what's going on along the continuum. >> Uh it may not be precise but at the time we know information and that's part of the that's part of this process but the official numbers coming out for for the 10% design next week. >> Yeah, I get that. >> I don't think it does any good >> to be >> Yes. Yeah. I just want to make sure people are clear. I mean, some council members have asked me and I so they said, "Is it two billion? Is it three billion?" So, we want to make sure they're not, you know, with there is information we do know. Um, and and the time the 1.2 number was used, it wasn't even at 10% design. And we caution people that this these are rough estimates but >> nothing but cause confusion. >> Yeah. Because I've heard >> Yeah. >> people in this room say it could be 850, it could be 900 because And so if if we're sitting here unofficially talking >> Yeah. >> and and talking about numbers that have no I mean nothing behind them otherwise y'all should be talking about those numbers right here right now and saying well we think based on Nobody's saying that because you don't know yet and you probably have a good idea. I know you do >> but we're not there yet. So anyhow, I I I don't think that does any any good for for for this whole situation and and conversation because it goes the other way. >> I mean, instead of going, yeah, it could be 900, you know, or whatever. I I realize that comes with time, but anyhow, Councilman uh Councilwoman uh Paxton, >> thank you, mayor. I too have heard the 1.3 looming because there's been apparently phone calls, lunch meetings, and meetings, none of which I was invited to, but I kind of just assumed that in my capacity I had a standing invitation and I didn't call the other way either, so I didn't go. Um, that number has been what I've heard from the community, from city staff, from people who tell me they've heard it on the radio. So, there's merit to it. That's what's out there. We are we're we are discussing the parameters of a 1.2 1.3 billion dollar project. It is what it is. I too would like us to call it what it is. And if this is an estimated number, call it an estimated number, but use it. I don't like waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting until we feel halfway confident to put something in black and white. Which leads me to my essential question behind putting my light on. Um, on our agenda right now, we have the placeholder item for the Inner Harbor update. It's almost Wednesday morning. When do we anticipate seeing some figures? Because the problem for me is when we don't get things till Friday, Friday night, Tuesday morning, it's very difficult for us to engage staff to have discussion because then what happens is our phone, emails, everything is flooded with questions and that's appropriate. I want that to continue. That's great. But I don't feel like I can do my full due diligence in the other direction when I don't have it until it's meeting time and then we're sitting here for three hours asking the same questions. So when are we going to see >> I mean we we anticipate posting the presentation for next week on Friday. So the information uh regarding cost and breakdown should be in that presentation. And if if >> can Excuse me Brett, can we post it sooner? Is it ready? Uh, this woman saying she wants to see it before Friday. >> Um, >> I know Friday's the deadline, but when we're talking heavy items, >> I mean, we're we're about 90% complete with the presentation. I mean, we're close. Um, >> I mean, if we want to post it sooner, we can. >> Or we can email it to the council in a memo, you know. >> Tell us right now how much is it? >> I >> Yeah, I'll tell you next week, Councilman. >> Well, Counciloman, we'll see if we can get it to you before Friday. And we know that every day is important. >> I'm not asking for special treatment if it's not everybody can see. >> Yeah. No, we'll see what we can do. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I appreciate it. >> Okay, >> Councilman Benedto. >> Here are a couple things. Um, somebody text me to uh so Broadway wastewater treatment plant original engineers estimate is 25 million and the low bid was 88 million. >> So I think were you on the council mark at that time? >> Hey, not don't talk to me. Pass my >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um, you know, I I I just think the irony is that we have Kiwi in here giving us all this detailed information. Um, worldrenowned scientists and engineers, but Michael Miller comes in with a sheet of paper and all of a sudden we need to make sure and bet that, you know, I I just I just uh I mean, that's my personal dig. I mean, but I I just think that >> Well, no. I mean, of course, I don't have I don't have the I I don't find him as a credible source, candidly, and although though I'm I'm interested, but I don't think it's one as to where we take that information and all all of a sudden we doubt the individuals that we're paying tens of millions of dollars to to be able to to do that. So, I just want to, >> you know, so well, I just once again, I don't think that has anything to do with it. Then, we don't know the time. There's no references, there's no credibility, there's no procurement process, there's no there's no process with which we determine the credibility of that individual. So, which leads me to another thing. I I don't know that there can ever be a disinterested third party because somebody has to pay them. You know the the paper the newspaper took this deal about PFAS that this individuals did these studies but it just so happened to be commissioned by the individuals who spent millions of dollars to try and make take an effect on this election and the and the last one here for city council. So, it was it was commissioned by those same individuals, Texas Campaign for the Environment that basically have been trying to sabotage this project for the last 5 years, of which several of their paid activists were here today to make public comment. >> Several of their paid activists were here to make public comment. So, is that individual a disinterested party? So, I I don't know. I mean the way the way we the way the way the disinterested party works is we have a public procurement process with which we we vet the qualifications of those individuals and so that way because we have a responsibility to the public to be able to provide qualified individuals to determine for us the the path to which to choose. Uh and you know it's just for me to make comments. Drew, I have a couple of questions for you on your Houston project just to try and have something analogous. Yeah. >> Once again, will you tell us the wa the water treatment plant the the water treatment plant that you worked on at Houston? What was the what was the total cost of it? >> Right. So, the the Houston water project, it was a 320 million gallon a day expansion project. It was delivered through a progressive design build u model. Uh it was interesting because the the original cost was estimated at $1.2 billion. It turned out it was a $ 1.76 billion project. That was just for the expanded facility. The overall cost of the project was6 billion when you included the interbas and transfer that we had to do plus all the pipelines and pump stations that were built as part of the project. >> And how much was the engineering? I mean the design on that. >> Oh my goodness. The design was I it was it was a lot. I mean it was like three three $400 million of design work I believe. and and and the only thing I bring that up to the public because I want them to understand and and I understand the conrnation of all my all my my uh my colleagues, >> you know, they have their constituents that they that ask them questions and they have their networks that they ask them questions and there's the rhetoric about industry and what have you. And so they want to be able to to to to satisfy that information and they're rightfully so. But I'm just trying to bring that up whether it may sound sarcastic or not. is just I I I just once again I think I think we ought to give more credibility to the individuals that we've entrusted to build this facility that would be monumental for the entire not only the state of Texas but for the entire country, >> right? that we just need to give give them give them the credit that they're due versus all of a sudden them losing credibility because an individual like Michael Miller comes in with some information that he probably got off of Google, you know, and so I I just think that we need to be we need I that's the way perspective of which I look at it. And the same thing it's all relative obviously building even if it is a 1.2 or 1.3 billion plan There's a cost associated with the design of being able to fulfill the obligation which is monumental of what we have to do. We're put together with a huge responsibility and I think and I think Sue the same thing you know I mean I I want to pursue John John Mattis Commissioner Mis is a real close friend of mine. We've known each other 25 years. Have a lot of confidence in what he's doing. But I think all of a sudden now we're we're putting a we're putting a a very intense deadline on a project that was obviously very intense today but do public comment and I just think that we need to be consistent. That's all. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate much sir. >> Councilman Hernandez. >> Okay. Just real quick. The 757 million was provided to us in early 2024. So it was not in 2023. >> 23. No, >> it was that that estimate was put together in 23. It was put together in 23. >> Okay. I'm talking about when we heard about it, right? Council. >> Okay. It was it was it was done in late 23 because we were going to council in 24 with the procurement request for for >> So that $757 million included was inclusive of a 20% contingency. So if it is $757 million, it is already 20% over budget. If it goes beyond that, it's going to be beyond 20% over budget. If it goes to, you know, a billion dollars, I don't know what it's going to be. 900 million, a billion, a billion, two, doesn't matter. It's going to be way over budget. Is this what this this is the the biggest complaint I've had about design build? It's a blank check. It's always been a blank check. We always overpay for design build. And if this comes back one penny over 757 million, it's already 20% over budget. Is that okay? >> Well, I I will say, Councilman, that I think the your analogy is not exactly accurate. I mean, the the the contingency that was included in that number was just to capture the unknown, right? because we're talking about a very early review of the project with not a lot of design effort. Um, >> no, no, no, no. The early review of the project was 220 million. >> Well, that that was a different size plant and and >> 20 million gallons a day, right? >> Yeah. Again, I think that's mischaracterizing how they calculated it. But >> look, this this just gets worse and worse costwise the further we go along. And you know, I I don't even know what that's going to equate to on a per thousand gallon basis. >> We'll show that next week. >> I hope so. >> We will. >> Okay. Thank you, >> sir. >> Councilman Kentu, >> Peter, thank you for being honest. Um, I know you were trying to talk. You want to finish what you were going to say earlier? >> Um, on the on the estimates. >> Yeah. just said, you know, we've been working with Kiwit and we we um the numbers aren't final until we show them, but obviously we see numbers and we we talk to Kiwit. Brett's talking to him every day. We talk to him a lot. So, uh there's been some we know that it's not going to be 757 million. And when council members have asked me, what is the price? And the answer is we don't know yet. But these are some preliminary numbers. These are some of the estimates. And I thank you for that because yeah, >> we don't want to be surprised. >> You know, at least we have that in our head. Oh, it's going to be 1.1, 1.2, 1 billion. >> I mean, um, >> you're preparing us for that shot when you're about to be a kid and go to the doctor's office. Your mom's preparing you on your way >> to get a shot, you know. Um, it's going to sting a little bit. Um, but thank you for being honest and and you know um I just um I feel bad for Michael Miller cuz he can't, you know, defend himself. But um I mean I don't think he he googled all this. I think it's just easy math. I mean you could Google what I'm sure you could Google the Inner Harbor and they'll tell you all the facts that we're doing right now. I mean I don't think it's going to be um wrong. Um but um I just I just I just don't see I mean you know I'm sure you guys know how much it's going to cost, right? >> I I have a number for you in the presentation for next week. It'll >> you'll see it then. We're still and councilman, we're still working with uh Camille with uh CCW to get the exact cost per thousand cost per 6,000 estimated for an average customer. We're putting all that information. That's why I said 90% because we're still putting the rest of the details in the slides. >> Yeah. >> And once we have all that, we'll be ready to >> Can I ask you guys a question? This is for you and Drew. Um, >> you guys are pretty busy with the Inner Harbor project, correct? I mean, your guys are full speed. >> It's what I do 100% of the day. >> And you too, Drew, right? >> No, >> no, no. I I part of the reason I'm not necessarily on the lead in this presentation is because I'm focused on probably 80% of my day is focused on other things. I I pl I definitely am involved in the in this project to the degree that I need to be, >> but I I am I am very much engaged in a lot of other activities in the in in what we do in CCW. >> Okay. I just, you know, I'm just concerned if we bring you more water project ideas. Will you guys be able to tackle them or do we need to find some consultants to go and look at the projects for us for council and then come report to us? I just want I don't want to overwhelm you guys, you know, because we need water. The public needs water. We need water. We're about to run out of water and I want to make sure that any projects that the council gives you guys, you guys work on it because I mean it's it's scary. We haven't got no rain, you know. I'm praying for a tropical storm. I don't want a hurricane, but I want a tropical storm to stay right over the Lake of Corpus Christi, you know, and and stay there for two days, you know. Um I think it's going to happen. I really do. I think in the next couple months we're going to get some rain and everybody's going to calm down a little bit and relax and that 15% will go to 30%. Maybe, maybe not. Um, but give us another year of water. Um, so c Councilman, one thing I will tell you is is we we often and always I should say we always try to look at the data. So Mr. Miller's data, I have not I've not seen it. Um, there's data that's out there. There's a lot of data that's out there. And so I'm not saying Mr. Miller's data is wrong. I haven't seen it. >> Yeah. >> But one of the things that we pride ourselves in trying to do is we try to look at at everything we can possibly look at. I think one thing that I've been pretty proud to say I've been a part of a team that really tries to look at everything. Um we're looking at a lot and uh our number one goal is not to run out of water. So, you know, that is our mission. >> Okay. So, before Friday, we get a number. >> Yeah, we're going to Yeah, I think we can get it by Friday. Even if it's just the number, then we can get the other ingredients. So, you'll have time at a bar on Friday and just discuss the number and >> yeah, >> you know, we'd be okay. >> That's the thing Saturday morning like, what the heck happened? >> Yeah. Once we give it out, it'll be out. So, that's one sometimes we'll purposely not give out information so the media and others don't get ahead of you all. >> Yeah. >> But we I mean, just recognize that it's no not a big problem. Not a big deal in this case because you've asked for it. So, we'll give it to you and then that means it'll be out in the media so we can get ready for interviews, that type of thing. It'll probably be a headline, but uh but on water, can I just add uh Drew didn't answer the question necessarily. So, we're working on several water projects and I don't know if we'll make it to it tonight. I would ask that we uh just read the written memo. Uh the last thing on the agenda is an update on water projects, but um we're meeting this week with with Commissioner Mes on the South Texas water project, and we've been meeting pretty consistently. Next week, let's see, ne next uh next week or the week. Next week, we're going to be getting the estimate for what we should pay for Evangeline Water. >> Okay. >> And then we're going to give them a counter offer on Wednesday, but we're going to meet with council in executive session on Tuesday. Is that next week or the week after? That's next week. >> Next week. So, next week in exact session, uh we're going to work with the council on what would be a good price for Evangeline's water. We've met with uh their lead negotiator now, Bruce Hill. Uh we're continuing to drill wells on our new Asus River project. Right now, we're discharging about 4 million gallons of water. >> Three to four. >> Three to four. And we're we've have permits in to do more on the land that we bought. So, water is being discharged. Uh right now, that's in our briefing me that goes out every Friday. So in priority order, we got our wells online and running and we're drilling more. Next week, we're going to have a price for Evangeline. We continue to work on the 7C's project and then the one that is is least worked on is the Dr. Mintz project, but that's there as well. And then effluent reuse is underway as well. >> Yeah. >> So everything the council has given of us, we're working to some extent. obviously not um some have less time spent in them like the like the EV ranch as an example, but >> and if we can't get to that water supply update, um I did send out a memo today and there's some good information because one of the things that we had happen yesterday is we got a lot of rain in the Freo River wershed and we've we've many of us have been watching folks have been sharing uh videos of the water. Um, it's only happened twice in the last eight years that we saw 20,000 cubic feet per second of water at the Concan Freo station and uh it's it's actually flowed all the way down to what's called the dry dry Frio and uh it's looking pretty promising that some of that's going to make it into the Cho Canyon. Not to mention the fact that the Noasis River is is getting some pretty good rain way up in the upper reaches of the wershed. So, I've got if we make it I've got some slides we can show, but um but there's there's a lot there's a lot. Let's keep those slides to a minimum of 10 slides. >> I think it's only six. >> Okay, six. Good. I think this should be a new uh policy, Peter. >> Thank you. >> I got my second attention. Hey, so >> you're you're going to So, number one, the 10% has an accuracy factor, right? No one's talked Have we talked about that? I missed that. We I mean we've talked about it in Leftwin's presentations on on the plus or minus of >> number. Let's talk about it now for just a second. So if it comes in at a dollar that's 10%. But it could be a$140 or 70 cents. I mean there's a there's an accuracy factor that we need to understand before you tell us the number or that's the number. So is there an accuracy factor? We've seen that in previous presentations. >> There is. Yeah. There's a big range. I don't know if anybody has the numbers in front of us, but that good point. So, when we give you the number, we're going to tell you if it goes as high as it could in the predictable model, it could be this and it could be this low. It could be three numbers. >> It's not the number, >> right? You're going to have a number and minus. So, good point. We'll make sure we have that in >> the second. Sorry. The second >> it's in the presentation. We already have it in there. Yes, sir. just you know how second second part is at the end of the day what what matters to the voters I think is um the rate and so that is that going to be in the conversation because if it goes up a dollar but my >> my cost per thousand de gallons goes down a dollar then that's what's important right so you're going to >> what gets lost in this is we're like oh my god it's it's you know it's a$120 and we want to be able to think through maybe a$120 20. But if if our you know operating costs are the same or go down, that's a good thing. >> We'll have the rate costs in the presentation. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. >> Okay. I think we're done. >> So soon, you know, we're not done. We're just done with this project or this uh this item. >> Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Thank you for the presentation, all the information. We appreciate it. Okay, moving on. And that would be that would take us to item number 26 and that is rec well yeah that's reconsideration of ordinance amending the roadway master plan map and the urban transportation plan map of mobility CC. So this I need to read this to everybody. So, at the June 24th council meeting, the council approved an ordinance amending the road roadway master plan map and the well the urban transportation plan map of mobility CC and transportation elements of the comprehensive plan of the city of Corpus Christi by modifying a planned road between county road 22 and county road 20A from a C3 collector to a C1 collector. So that is and m uh Ernie the C3 collect C3 is a two just give me the lanes pull out the chart mayor council Ernie de Garza Um >> well, oh go ahead. >> Yeah. So you the question is the C3 is a U primary collector with a rideway 75 ft and has four travel lanes, no medians and a 5ft sidewalk. >> Okay. And the C1 is a two-lane. All right. So basically um modifying a planned road between County Road 22 and County Road 20A from a four-lane collector to a two-lane. But I want to clarify that the motion on the second reading of the ordinance is the one we wish to reconsider. So, so per council policy 16N, I've requested reconsideration of this ordinance along with councilman Betta to bring it before the council for further consideration. Um, this was done because conversations were had with the developer and we were trying to come to an agreement. two lane versus four lane. A motion uh to reconsider requires twothirds affirmative vote or six votes to pass. Um and this is to reconsider the item to come back to the dis. If the council approves a motion to reconsider, then we can discuss it and move on to take action. So I'd like to move to reconsider this ordinance. >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor say I. This is just to discuss and reconsider the ordinance that we've passed. >> I. Any oppose say no. The motion uh to reconsider is approved. So what we what we're we're I guess what had taken place is that again that road do you have the map? >> Yes. >> By chance, can you just pull that map up? >> Uh >> which is the map >> it has it has it ready to go if they can put the PowerPoint up. >> That's fine. So he'll he'll pull that map up, but it's it's the one you all saw the last couple weeks. And so to make a very long story short, this is the London area. It was um a road that that that sits that goes all the way across from 286 to the proposed Park Road uh uh OSA Parkway. And it was a two-lane actually originally. There it is. It was a five lane, an A2. >> Correct. If you want me to explain, ma'am. >> All right. So, the uh existing master plan which was um which is adopted by council at the second reading, we're we're talking specifically to street number two and street number three. Uh county road 22. Uh what council voted on was that the uh A2 arterial would remain in place. That's a four-lane roadway with the median 100t rideway. And then the C3 collector would remain in place, which is a four-lane roadway. I believe that's a 75 ft rideway. And that's that's what uh council landed on after the second second reading. Okay. So since then I had spoken with the developer actually it was his idea and he had said that he had spoken to some council members and said that he would be fine with a fourlane and and that's what was in question was we have a two-lane running through this London area um a two-lane road and then there was talk of London ISD building a school in the area. Um, and I think that was brought forth that was brought forth, right? >> Correct. And and I also had conversation with uh uh Dr. Chapman, I believe is his name. >> Yes. And for the record, that was taken off the table though that that that communication was taken off the table. But then you had communication with >> with the superintendent directly. I met with the superintendent directly and specifically what he mentioned to us was that he was looking in this in this area in that quadrant uh for a place to put a elementary school. Uh the reason that he was looking in the area was because he needed water and wastewater. Uh he said he couldn't put a elementary school with septic and so he needed uh those two utilities to successfully have a school in that area. And he said to date, uh, nobody had given him a price. And so he said, "I own no land as of right now. Uh, I want to go into this area right here, but nobody has given me a price to date." Okay. So today's amendment is to take the uh the left side, I mean to basically to make the whole county road 22 the four lane. >> C3. >> C3, >> right? So, a C3 on number three and a C3 on number two, which would give you a continuous four-lane roadway. And so, right now, as it stands, you'd have two lanes in each direction with a median on the number two street. And then it would merge to four lanes without the median. And so, so that you have uh continuity throughout that whole corridor, you would have a C3 on the number two and a C3 on the number three. >> Okay. Yeah. Could you remind us >> first >> what was um the last vote? >> Right. So the the what currently what you are uh currently voting on or what what is in place right now is the A2 and the C3. Right. What is up for discussion to adjust is only to change the A2 to a C3. That's it. >> And the A2 is a five lane. The C2, >> the A2 is four lanes with the median. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> And And you're just going to get rid of the median. >> Say again. >> She's asking why we would why would we get rid of the medians? Uh so my understanding was that the developer as a compromise was open to um reducing the A2 to a C3 and having that continuity of four lanes. So you don't lose any lane capacity, you just lose a median. So you still have the fourlane capacity throughout the corridor. And so instead of the developer having to give a 20 foot strip of land, now they only have to give 7 and a half foot uh with a less with a lower lower uh width right away. >> Okay, let me go to Councilman Hernandez. >> Okay, thank you. You know, I had the opportunity to u meet with Dr. Chapman uh directly on this and uh he did say that there was no point or anything because and actually he said he needed a middle school more than he needed the elementary school just simply because of the population that he has. However, um even had the opportunity to discuss uh the the new schools that CCISD built over off of Yorktown and how C1 collectors are all the way around every bit of that school. um which would probably be more ideal for his situation. However, you know, in this so the whole thing, so we're doing sections one, I mean, your recommendation is sections two and three to be a a a single C3 all the way through. >> A uh so >> you want to have a consistent road all the way, >> right? A consistent roadway, four lanes. You if you won't have a median merging to no median. So a C3 would be consistent all the way through that corridor. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, I'll tell you what. I'll make a motion to have a C3 collector in sections two and three all for the entire road for County Road 22. >> Um, nobody said it. >> Well, he could talk first. >> Go ahead. So, let's clarify a few things. So, this went to planning commission five months ago. Your staff brought number two and number three is a C1 collector because a TIA shows it's a C1 collector. This is the area that you just discussed about none of this land is in the city of Corpus Christi. At this point, it might never be in the city of Corpus Christie, which means you get to keep a county road section that's 40 feet. That's it. We're not required to give you any land. Not 7 feet, not 10 ft, not 15 feet, not 30 feet, not 40t. If we leave it in the city of outside the city of Corpus Christi, we have alternative plans if we do not annex this to make it halfacre acre lots just like we've done in other parts of London. this area here. I own the right of way on both sides of County Road 22. I own the right of way on County Road 20. I own the right of way on County Road 43. I own three different rightways here. And this property, even though you're fixated on number two, number three has nothing to do with me. That's another developer. Even though you're fixated on number two, a TIA plan shows it needs to be a C1 collector. Your own public works department brought this to you prior to the 24th vote and all nine of y'all voted 90. You got an email that changed your mind very clearly. He's stating and everybody can state very clearly that London ISD would love to be in this 4,000 acre corridor, but they cannot be in this 4,000 acre corridor if this land never gets annexed. So, I don't plan on selling any London ISD school property down County Road 22. So, why are we fixated on County Road 22? County Road 20A right now, your UTP amendment, which is not valid. This is not actually a master plan that's adopted by the city because it can't be. It's a still a county road section, very clearly states that you can have a county road on county road 20. We are potentially if we ever develop number one the blue area putting in our own C1 collector in the neighborhood. County Road 20 is a util a road to lead to other people's properties that are not annexed in the city. We also own the property on the other side which would have a C1 or C3 collector. But if we don't annex, we'll put it on septic. We'll just do county road sections. You will have no control if we don't annex. We'll also do an MMD. We'll do a district just like our city manager illustrated earlier. You still won't have control. You'll lose all those tax dollars as well. So, right now, you're arguing about a road that doesn't exist that on the other side of the street is always going to be a county road section. This very clearly needs to go back to a C1 collector, what you voted 900 on. >> Thank you, Mr. Muscos. And I'm sorry I wasn't here last time because I was getting on a plane. >> So, thank you. >> Okay. So, with that, I'll I'll resend my motion. And uh since he described it, I'll make a >> Well, I I'm going to hold off on that. We we we got to correct some of this. So, Mr. Masagasi, you and I spoke multiple times this weekend. >> You agreed and you said it should be a four lane. And so, the re No, no, no. We're we're we're done. It's 10:15. um all this I'll do this if you don't do that kind of talk that you just mentioned is a little bit offensive but nonetheless nonetheless here here here's here's here's what I spoke with you about multiple times we talked about how this is the corridor how this should probably be a four lane forget about the email sir forget about the email they took that off the table. They took that off the table. >> Well, if you go back and watch the the meeting, you'll see he he he took it off the table. What came on to the table, which you knew because I spoke with you Sunday and was that he that Ernie was going to reach out to the superintendent to talk because I said to you, we have to do our due diligence. the city of Corpus Christi. I'm not going to side with well this one said this and that one said this and and we respectfully agreed to that and that's what he did and he spoke to that superintendent. Now is there a deal on the table anywhere on this land? No. For a school but Ernie, why don't you tell us what your conversation you did? You said that the superintendent said he's looking at this area because he needs wastewater and water. >> Correct. Okay. So, that's the only information we have back. Now, Moses, I'm a little taken aback. I'm not going to be I'm not going to lie to you about that because up until 20 minutes ago, the only reason, right, that this is all back is because we had a conversation and and this body's responsibility is to look at this area to see where is it going. It's it's it's having a vision because what we don't want is a two-lane Yorktown south uh what's it called? Creek Side Creekide people trying to get to Flower Bluff development all around Yorktown because it was backwards. And to me, and again, you and I spoke, >> this is an opportunity to say, okay, let's not create what has happened, you know, outside of our control really. I mean, now we're fixing Yorktown, but, you know, everything has has grown around it. Anyway, I'm I'm a little taken by surprise because I thought that this was a compromise with you and and that was the courtesy that was given with you to say how do we meet in the middle and you said a four-lane no median or a you know what is it C3 and I said okay so I'm a little taken back >> Councilman Badam Was Gil going to say something? >> Oh, Gil, I'm sorry. You were on >> I was going to make a motion to make it as he went, but I'll wait until uh everybody gets a chance to speak. >> Okay, Councilman. >> Um, >> you know, I always say this a predictable regulatory environment. So, and I guess I wasn't paying attention. So, all all this property is outside the city limits, >> right? So, the uh if if the city's um I guess for lack of a better word, permission wasn't required, then he wouldn't be asking for a UTP amendment, right? Otherwise, we wouldn't be here. >> So, a portion of this is annexed, right? The the uh County Road 22. Um but >> you pull up your map and tell me which part is annexed. >> So, Which which portion of it is? >> Rene, >> do you got the map? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we're trying to pull up the map. And and again, apologize. We we understood that we were just going to come up here and talk about a C3. So, we're trying to put in our documents together. Um but but while Renee pulls up that map, uh let me do let me let me give you the the history. Moses is correct. We brought we came to this the first reading and so everybody could be on the same page. uh we came to the first reading and based on the trip generation from the traffic impact analysis it showed that uh C1 would work for that proposed uh trips right and if also if you recall at that meeting I mentioned to mayor and council that I could only make a recommendation on today's information not tomorrow's information right and then at that point councilman Hernandez started asking questions about tomorrow uh public works does not have the data to uh explain that in in all this area here, what are the additional travel demands uh to the area to necessitate a a uh master plan roadway that's already on the plan. And so what I explained to to you all is I said, "Hey, let's approve it reading one and then when we come back second reading, we'll go do our homework and then maybe we can bring you some tomorrow information." Just like the closure at the uh u um under the Harbor Bridge, you know, same thing, same explanation. I I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. We can work with what we have today. The best that we can give you is mobility information, access information, uh information that we have at hand today. So, with that with that said, um a couple of things that I want you to understand is that a C1 collector uh is is built for trips of 4,000 to 8,000 vehicles, right? Daily trips. A C3 it goes up to 10,000 14,000. So, if if you know, for perspective, Staples, you know, hits about 15,000, right? That's how busy Staple Street is uh at the busiest part of Staples. You know, they even go up to 20,000 right there by where Saratoga is at for perspective. So, that being said, um I was trying to get across and mind you, this is public works first UTP amendment ever to bring to you all. So, we're going to try to build that that predictive uh environment that you asked for, sir. Um but with this first one um what we really want to get across is is just a matter of risk transfer right you you all are entitled to the master plan uh as is right whatever the master plan what whatever's annexed you know whatever is being requested if if A2's on the plan C3 if we were going to be very conservative public works I would come and say look I'm I'm not I'm riskaverse I don't even want to consider uh what they're what they're selling because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow why would we transfer that risk to ourselves with the potential of other traffic generators coming in the future. Why would we want to do that to ourselves uh and relieve the developer of the burden of giving land and then us taking on that that risk of having a narrow roadway and then having future development and then us not having the width that we need. And so we talk about uh like ele Cullen Elementary for example, you know, when they came and then we had to come at the last minute and start putting uh operational measures to account for uh a lack of width of roadway because you had a lot of students in a in a short amount of time, right? And so that was the concern that was brought up. That's what I understood to be the concern. And so now that we're talking about well what what do we want to consider? It's very simple. you have an A2 and a C3. If if you want to be very uh conservative, then leave what's what's on the master plan and then through the uh platting process and then through the public improvement process, we'll go work all that out. Now, uh the reason that I said I'm good with the C3 is because it is a compromise, right? It is a compromise in that we still have capacity for any future growth, right? And so you have capacity for 10,000 to 14,000 vehicles a day. You're giving yourself some wiggle room in the future if you had uh to need capacity. And so we we don't know we don't know um what's coming underneath that, you know, street number three. We don't know uh what's coming around the area. Even the uh state highway 26 that's being built by Texot, that's going to be reconfigured. And so all of your traffic going north is going to feed into the area. uh and then and then feed into this once it is developed. Uh and so annexed or unannixed really what's in front of you uh to decide is do you want a road this wide or do you want a road that wide and do you want to take the risk of a narrow roadway? That's real simple. It's a real simple vote to have. Now, um, yeah, you can talk about the data at the data at hand. Um, but you know, I think I think really if you get into that minutia, you're really just going to confuse yourself because like I mentioned earlier to you, sir, the traffic impact analysis is a micro analysis tool. It's not a macro analysis tool. It's very similar to a nearfield model rather than a farfield model. Right? So, you're going to use the near field model to to talk about what's happening around the development. And then we don't have the far-field model to talk about that big area. We don't you would need a a traffic demand model, which would cost a lot of money to try to predict what's going to be going on with all of these roadways so that we can say, you know what, um, C1's not going to work because I have very specific data. And we don't have that. And so now it's just a matter of risk. Do you want the risk? Yes or no? That's that's y'all's that's y'all's decision. Okay. So let's let's so this is part of the master plan. You you what you presented >> the master plan was C C1. >> The ma the master plan right now as it is is an A2. >> An A2. Okay. Correct. So which is big? >> Yeah. It's >> A2 would be for how much capacity? >> A2 is up there for uh let me see here. 20,000 to 32,000 vehicles. So that's like a staple street, very busy staple street with medians. >> Wow. And county road I mean FM43 which is way out Weber, right? Which goes out to Weber. >> Yes, sir. >> About have we ever done a traffic impact analy? >> That that one on the texttop planning map has about 15,000 vehicles. >> Okay. And that's that's a basically a two-lane row with two big shoulders. That's a four-lane roadway. >> Four-lane road >> in either direct or it's two lanes in one direction, two lanes in the other direction. You're talking about Staples headed out to the church. >> No, no, no. I'm talking about >> I mean Weber headed out to the Bay Bay Area church or whatever. >> I'm talking about once once you get past 286. >> Oh, out to London. >> Yes. >> That's a that's a text to market road. Yes sir. >> Yeah. So, see that's what I'm saying. I mean, I I I Here's the thing once again, a predictable regulatory environment. And so what makes it competitive for a developer is once again predictability. And so right now if if we and and I was okay with the C the C3 when I thought Moses was okay with it or the developer I should say was okay with it simply because it's a compromise. But you know there's a cost associated with that predictability to the developer. And then if the propertyy's not even annexed, well then all of a sudden now we're going to lose the school. We're going to lose, you know, I mean, that's the whole reason we want to have the turds. So that way we can we can provide some we can incent the development because we're going to that way we can we can we can be very clear about how much risk the city's going to take to be able to do that. So right now I'm just wondering are we punting all the risk on the developer because we're now we're recommending I mean we're recommending an A2. I don't know how we could have ever come up with that >> initially, >> right? That that was what was already on the plan and and that's what the developers asking to get amended to >> C1. Would it be like FM43? >> A C1 would just be one lane going in either direction with sidewalks off to the side, curb and gutter. Uh just just to >> But is it gonna be like FM43? I mean that's a 55 mph deal. >> No, sir. Because FM43 is is has shoulders. >> It has shoulders. Okay. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And that's a different that's a textto criteria roadway. >> Yeah. >> So it's not an urban roadway. It's a rural roadway. Uh two 12T lanes, two 10 foot shoulders. >> And I I I guess that's um see that that's that's the thing where I'm stuck at Ernie. I I know what you mean. You're doing a very good job. I want to tell you that you're doing a very good job of saying who do we transfer the risk to? And so now because of the fact that it was an A2, I can see why the developer comes back and does a traffic impact analysis and said in this experience that I've had, let's move to a C1, >> right? >> And then and how long does that process take? >> What's that, sir? >> Well, obviously it's an A2. So he comes back at at that point. How long ago? And I know Tamez did the same thing, >> right? Well, to be fair, sir, I I have I have the traffic impact analysis. >> No, no, no. But I want to know the timeline. >> Uh, >> how much time have we invested into this? Because here's the thing that I've argued with Peter before. Hold on. Hear me out. Just so you know my questions. How much time has it taken us to get from A to B? Because here's the thing. >> Every time for the amount of time that we take, the developer, what is it? Is either paying interest on that land or they've got land that is not an income producing asset, >> right? So then they have to they they insert cost into that to try and turn it into an income producing asset right income producing asset and then he's working to make it a income and producing asset to us so we can collect ad valorum so we can take utility fees >> right >> so and obviously that's a complex process. So from the first time a developer comes to us and then we say from that very moment how long has this process been take? Yeah, it could take anywhere from four to 6 months. Uh just depending. So remember, uh again, this is our first UTP. >> Okay. Wait, wait. And the planning commission has had looked at it 5 months ago and they approved a C1. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay. So the planning commission looked at it 5 months ago. Before that, five months ago. How much time did he spend to to that? Three, four months. >> I don't have the time frame, sir. I mean, I could get you a timeline. Uh but the what I was going to say is that going straight to his traffic impact analysis, it reads recommendation for county road 22. The developer is required to build half of his secondary arterial A2 as proposed roadways from Marabella subdivision con connect with county road 22. The proposed improvements will need to be built from the proposed roadway to state highway 286. The proposed improvements to County Road 22 are presented in the figure and the figure shown on the uh traffic impact analysis is an A2 two lanes with a median. So if the other developer has not yet built to the other half is important to note that the Marbella development will need to be built a transition from the intersection of 286 to the half streetet two-way section and planning commission approved this. So, planning commission approved an A2 uh on his traffic impact analysis. We came as public works after that and said, you know what, based on these trips, you can actually have a C1 and be okay if this council is okay with today's information. And if this council is not okay with that, then if you want to consider the future, which is what was brought up by Councilman Hernandez, then you got to go and go with your original plan, which is I don't want to be uh I don't want to have risk and I want to be conservative. >> I understand. And the other risk that we have is that the we require the developer an A2 and then all of a sudden now the property is never annexed. Well, that that again no I I hear what you're saying, sir, but public works only analyzes traffic. I'm sharing that information with you. >> 100%. Yes, sir. >> I'm sharing that information with you and the city manager. >> Uh, and so we look to you to be able to give us good recommendations >> as to where that's the gamble that we have to take. If we do an A2, then all of a sudden now we're going to take what, 40T of his property? >> No, sir. Well, it depends. You're going to take 20 if you leave the master plan as is and you're going to take 7 and a half if you go with the C3 compromise. >> So, so the A2 the A2 would be the A2 would be >> 20T >> 20 ft and see there's a cost associated with that once again. >> And so then the whole thing this is property that's hasn't been annexed. >> Okay. Well, you have the you have the picture. Okay. >> Okay. Well, I don't know how many feet it is here. I see it. It's just um >> Okay. All right. I don't have any further questions. Thank you very much, Ernie. >> Okay. Hey, I want to tell you that hey, the for your first time, it's pretty you're doing a good job. >> Yeah. We're just trying to give you all the information so you have informed to make an informed decision. And I know it's a lot of moving parts. Uh, but I think to to simplify the vote, it's really just a matter of do you want to stick with the roadway that's on your plan, which is a wider roadway, and that's a conservative approach, or do you want to add risk to that scenario in the in the event that you have future development and you end up with a two-lane roadway. It's it's that simple. And of course, it's easy for me to say, but to be fair to Moses and the development, yes, he will have to give up some of his land uh to meet that requirement. But um that should be understood by the developer when they plat. I understand that he has a a plat in place which um uh should really have landed after this decision was made and then they go and and plat what they know they're going to have to plat. Um but that's a business decision. So that that's kind of where we're at with that. Yes sir. >> Well, Councilwoman Paxton Oh, sorry. Yes ma'am. >> Because Yeah, he's already I'll be quite frank. It's 10:30. We started reviewing this item at 10:00. It started on a bad foot in my opinion. I don't think we should be handling business as a city with emotions flying and people accusing emails and conversations back and forth from the dis and the well. So that's how I'm introduced to this topic. I had one page in the agenda which is fine. Said we're going to reconsider. I'll be quite honest. to my understanding of the one page was a simple reconsideration of how we're going to do this road information as we have it like you just said today's information versus tomorrow that was yesterday's information now here we are I'm seeing yeses and nos and agrees and doesn't agree and back and forth and I don't see a road study my I'll be honest my concern is twofold one I want to support this project I want to do what this developer needs I want to I want to see the city grow. I want to be a partner. On the other hand, I don't feel like I have the information I need for that. How many how many vehicles are supposed to be on this road? What does the future plan of this road look like? I feel like I already said yes to one project and now we're changing it. So now I need to go back and revisit. Why exactly are we trying to change this? And a bigger picture to me is if this does grow, how I'd love to see it grow and we are talking 20 30,000 people on this road, what do evacuation routes look like? I don't know that. I don't know any of those information. that could already all be solved. I just don't have it in front of me and I don't see a foreseeable path for me to get there in the next five minutes before it continues to get later and later and later. So, I don't even know that this is a discussion that that we can find an end path to at this moment. And here's the only reason why. Because I don't see consistency in yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. These are all the facts. That makes me say, "All right, I need more information because I've got to find the facts." Now, if three parties are disagreeing with them, does that make sense? It's really hard to put in a packet. So, I I just I don't I don't have a motion to make for this. I I don't know where to go on this at this point. I >> That's right. Well, this wasn't supposed to be this way. So, that's all I have to say. I I thought we were coming in. We had an agreement and that went south at within the last hour. So, >> you have a motion before? >> No, he didn't. He didn't make one. What What is your What, Gil, why don't you um what what are your thoughts again? because um well I just want to mention that >> can well let me explain let me kind of give some history here. Okay this road county road 22 is already annexed into the city the entire road. We own it. So the developer is not going to do anything with it because it's already annexed into the city. That's when we remember when we did that one all the way up to get that one little piece of property for that. >> Gotcha. Right? You remember that? Okay. So, this belongs to us, right? So, whatever we decide, we are going to build it. We have to pay for it. Am I not am I wrong? >> You're correct, sir. Yes, sir. >> I'm correct. So, but we want consistency here. You know, if we're going to do C1, we'll do the C1 the entire way. If we're going to do C3, it's going to be C3 the entire way, right? Because there's a C3 uh the, you know, the next road over and there's an C3 on the next road over. So I kind of look at this like kind of Carol Lane, right? You have Castors over here, you have Weber here and then you have Caroline in the middle. Carol Lane is a C1 collector, right? So this is kind of that one in between that gives you connectivity but not necessarily needs to be, you know, the wide thing, right? But ultimately whatever it is, we have to build it, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Um because we already annexed this property, this this roadway. So, uh I believe that you know the fir when we first voted on this it was a it was a C it was a C1 all the way through >> correct >> now I'm not sure now that rightway requirement is 60 ft right is is are are we going to have more feet of rightway no >> right so I mean that right now it's only 40T right it's only 40T of rightway it's not even to the C1 standard for right of way so you know if we do the C1, we get 20 more feet of rideway. Am I correct? So, I'll make a motion that entire road of County Road 22 from 286 to, you know, where it meets into Oso Parkway be a C1 collector. >> Second. >> Okay. What was that? >> C1. >> C1. The entire the entire section sections two and three. >> A two lane. >> Uh 40T of of pavement. It could be 40 ft of pavement could be three lane. >> It's a What is it, Ernie? Yes sir. Uh so the C1 is two lanes uh with the 60 ft of rightway. That's correct. >> Two lanes. Okay. >> Okay. Now it can be 5 foot. >> It can be three lanes because each lane is 12 ft, right? So you can have you can put a turning lane in that in that section and still have two more feet of pavement on each side. >> So well I mean it's just based this is only based on what we have in the IDM on how it's designed, right? you know, there's a, you know, and I and I have to say I'm uh, you know, this kind of nonsense we have like on Everheart, it goes from an A2 to a C3 to a uh, you know, then back to an A2, then back to a C3. If we I want to have consistency along that entire road. Correct. >> If we're going to have, you know, if we're going to do something, let's do it for the entire road. And so I made the motion for you. >> Well, and and and before we move forward, I'm just going to say it again. Yeah. Because we're here because what was agreed upon all of a sudden changed. >> No, no, no, it's not. >> No, let Mr. Masagosi, I'm sorry. We're not going to go here. So, it's ridiculous. So, what what >> Well, but but it's true. But it's true. No, but it's true. >> Yes, it's true. Yes, but that's not why. >> But that's not why. >> No, that's not true. >> Wow. That is just wow. >> Um, >> we have a motion. >> No, there's a motion. I'm just flabbergasted by this. So, we're going to make it a two-lane knowing, just for the record, >> knowing that that um superintendent you spoke with and he said he was going to be in that area because he wants >> correct >> water and waste water. >> That is correct. Yes, ma'am. >> And and the fourlane was agreed upon because I had the conversation, so did other council members with the developer >> and now it's not okay. So, all right, Councilman Scott, I'm out. >> Yeah. What's What's on the other side of uh 286? >> Uh on the uh >> west side. Not the side we're talking about. >> Actually, you know what's up there, right? >> He's talking about the other side. >> Yeah, it's nice and smooth, right? >> County Road 22 comes across. Yeah. Are you talking about the road itself? Sorry, Mike Dice. Development Services. The road is is was improved by New Aces County ago. It's standard county road. And what what's does it match a C1? Does it match a C? >> It's county road standard. >> What's what's how many feet? >> Yeah. Ditches bar ditches on both sides. >> Yeah. >> I still don't know what we're talking about. So So if we do C1 on the uh if we do C1 on the on the OSO side, that's how what's that width? >> That's 60. C1 is 60 ft. >> Correct. the right of way. >> Yeah. With a a roadway that's 40 >> 40. And then the county road on the other side's road width is >> 20. This the the the C1 is 60 which is 40 foot worth of uh All right. And who's who's Gil? This is your this is your district. Gotcha. Thanks. Thank you, mayor. Yeah. No, we're we're we have a motion. We have a second to make it a C2. >> C1, sorry. C1, which is a And and for the record, I don't want >> We want, like you said, the growth. We want everything to move forward here. I'm again, it's just a huge interesting misunderstanding with what was agreed upon and what where we are now all of a sudden. Um, but that's fine. We have a motion. We have a second to >> bring us all back to a C1. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Then we can submit our vote, please. The motion carries. Thank you, Ernie. >> Okay. So, that we're going to move on to item 20. Item 27 actually. Okay. So, item 27, 28, 29, and 30. So, these are all um to consider Oh, I'll go ahead and read them. to consider and act. Item 27 to consider and act on amending public comment policy to allow each member of the public who desires to address the body regarding an item on an agenda or any other city related item at the 5:30 p.m. public comment period. All of these are requested by the same people, right? Yes. C uh council members Kayn Paxton, Gil Hernandez, Carolyn Vaugh. Number 28 so that we can just talk about them uh holistically uh is a considerate act on having no requirement to sign up in advance to speak on an item on an agenda and allowing each member of the public who desires to speak to have three minutes time to speak. Item 29 is consider an act on amending the decorum of public comment to allow commenters the ability to ask questions with the understanding that the mayor, council, and staff shall not answer answer any questions during the public comment period. Item number 30 is consider an act on allowing each member of the public who desires to address the body regarding an item on the agenda or any other city related item to have the ability to sign up for public comment uh starting the day before the meeting at 8:00 a.m. and ending the day of the meeting at 5:00 p.m. So, we're going to go back to 27 and because I know all of these are going to intertwine and we're going to um Kaylin, Miss I'm sorry, Councilwoman Paxton, you want to start it off and then we'll get our public comment. >> Sure. Um thank you, Mayor. Um they were all you'll see them duplicated. They were all originally written in a single memo because to me they were all very related. I don't oppose discussing them individually as is presented here. um to I guess 27 um after reviewing the Texas Open Meetings Act um I have section 551.07 07 B section 5517C. That was the reference for this. Um and so what what this is requesting is to allow the discussion of agenda items and any city related business at the 5:30 public comment. You mean on the agenda or not? Right. >> Yep. All the above. >> Whatever you want to talk, >> whatever you want to talk about 5:30 as long as it relates to city. have a slide on that too, so I can show the sections that you're referring to, Miss Paxton. I can um we have um a slide on that that we can show just to so it's clear to everybody what we're talking about. Um can I have can you all show my presentation please? >> Okay. Can you start from the beginning? >> Thank you. Okay. Okay. So, uh we're going to talk about the revised public comment procedures that we currently have. So, our background is on June the 10th, the council approved the motion to move public comment session uh from noon to 5:30 and that was effective today. And what that did, the order of business and administrative processes were updated to accommodate this change and the revisions are in compliance with the Texas Open Meetings Act. The next slide. So, this is what uh Miss Paxton was referring to. So, the Texas Open Meetings Act, it's section 551. Seven, public testimony. And what it says on B is the governmental body shall allow each member of the public who desires to address the body regarding an item on an agenda for an open meeting of the body to address the body regarding the item at the meeting before or during the body's consideration of the item. So when we made when that change was made to move public comment from noon which was before we acted on any of the items u that's we took public com and you could talk about an item or anything right but once we moved it to the end then what happened was uh we then that meant that when we were considering an item we needed to do it when the when we were considering the item. So instead of doing it at the beginning we moved it to the end which is fine. So that's and that's why I think there were some comments today on the structure. That's why it was structured that way because of what the what the law says. And then um C says a governmental body may adopt reasonable rules regarding the public's right to address the body under this section including rules that limit the total amount of time that a member of the public may address the body on a given item. So, we did set up some some of the rules that we were talking about today earlier and I can go into those um in a little more detail if you like, but that that's why that was set up that way. So, I know we had several discussions all last week about it. Section B, while it outlines that we must grant provision if the body that that qualifies to hold these open meetings. If you hold your public public comment prior to your business, that is one opportunity. Outside of that, the second opportunity is when the agenda item is being reviewed. >> Correct. It doesn't state in item B that if you do hold an a public comment after business that you may not allow them. It doesn't say that you may. It doesn't even reference it. It just says if you hold a public comment before or during the item then you should allow your public comment each member of the public who wishes to address the body should be given that consideration to speak at either of those. So this doesn't anywhere say that we cannot or that the public is forbidden to speak on an agenda item af [TRANSCRIPT TRUNCATED DUE TO EXCESSIVE LENGTH TO PREVENT PROCESSING COSTS]