Go ahead and start, Ryan. Good evening, everybody. My name is Ron Cath. I'm the vice chair of the Cottage Grove Public Service Commission. I'd like to call this meeting to order. This this meeting is being held at the council chambers uh here in Cottage Grove. We are starting at 7 o'clock this evening. Our that's our first item on the agenda tonight is to call our order. Our second item to move through our agenda is a pledge of allegiance. Please stand and join me for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. With that, our next item on the agenda is roll call. >> Thank you. Next item on our agenda is the approval of our agendas. Uh commissioners have had the opportunity to review these minutes or the agenda before we arrive. So, are there any additions or subtractions from the agenda this evening? I open a motion then to approve our agenda. >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Okay. Moved by Jenny. A second. >> A second. seconded by Tracy. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Those opposed. Motion passes. Moving on to approval of our minutes. Again, board or uh commissioners have had the opportunity to review the minutes from our July 21st meeting. Are there any additions or subtractions from those minutes? >> None. Okay. Uh can I have a motion to approve our July 21st minutes? I'll do a motion to approve. >> Okay. Lisa uh moves the motion. Second. >> I'll second it. >> Nate seconds it. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Those opposed. >> Motion passes. >> Moving on to open forum. I look into the audience. I'm not seeing anybody uh in the audience this evening. So, we'll move past open forum and move right into our presentations this evening. Our first presentation is our sidewalk and trail snow removal review and that'll be presented by our director of public services Ryan. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Members of the commission here to talk about our sidewalk and trail snow falling that we do in the city. Um when we went through the budget process this year, um this was a discussion point because we had a few uh machines up for replacement. Um they're quite expensive machines that were used particularly for our sidewalks cuz you need kind of special equipment that can be large enough to get it all done but fit on those narrow sidewalks. Um so the council just asked that staff look at this. Several years ago, we did take a look at this at city council, kind of see what it cost and and see the pros and cons, but um there was requests to bring that back forward just to have the commission actually look at it. And tonight, I'll be giving an overview of what we do, our policies and how we do that and then want to get feedback more specifically on the residential neighborhoods. Um because the the main roads, you know, those are something that we have to remove snow from on those trails and sidewalks, but all the residential streets that we do as well. want to get commission feedback on that, weigh the pros and cons, not looking for any decisions, but just want to get your feedback. And is there other information that you'd like to hear about the process that I could bring back at a future meeting to kind of further the discussion? So, with that, I'll get started. Um, we remove snow from about 112 miles of sidewalk and trail throughout the city. That also includes county road trails because that's the the way it works with not just Washington County, but really any county is the local jurisdiction. in the city is actually responsible for the snow removal of county trails as well. About 25 miles of that is sidewalk adjacent to homes and residential neighborhoods. That's a number that we've really seen climb because um prior about 2007 is when the city adopted a new standard to have a sidewalk on one side of every residential street. Before that, sidewalks were pretty uncommon in residential neighborhoods. Um there was one development in ' 07, then you had the recession, so not much happened. Um, but since 2013, probably most of those 25 miles have been built. Um, so it's something that we've continued to do and continue to add to our workload. On average, now it can vary greatly by the winter, but on average, we took a look at three winters in a row, a big one, a light one, and and then last year, which while we didn't get a lot of snow, we had a lot of snow falls, small snow falls. Um, so about a thousand hours of clearing total staff time um every year is what we have um to do that work. And then for sidewalk routes, we have four dedicated machines for that. Um, two of those I would say are used for sure year round. The other two don't see as much use in the the off season, the non-winter season. And then we have three trucks with plow attachments that we do the trails with. Trails are 8 ft wide, so it's really easy to have a pickup plow with an attachment. So those are very cost effective because the pickup we're going to have with the staff member anyways. Um, and then a plow is like $12,000. So um pretty low cost uh to do the the trail removal. Um two two routes of that I would say is majority onroad trails. Think of like 80th and 70th things like that. And another route is more the off-road trails through parks and open spaces. And on this map um I know it's kind of big the whole city but just the idea is the red is the we call it transportation trails and sidewalks. So, those are trails and sidewalks that are, you know, on a main road, on a county road, um, or maybe in a park, right? In a park where no one else is going to clear it except for the city. And then the green is all of those sidewalks, almost all sidewalks. We have one trail segment that goes in front of a person's house. Otherwise, it's all sidewalks um that the city clears snow, but it is in front of homes um where we could, you know, some cities, right, have the homeowners do that snow removal. We took a look at the cost of uh the snow removal. The top uh the top table there, that's our equipment. So, um looking at the purchase costs of the different uh types of a piece of equipment. Um you can see those top two um those are extremely expensive. So, those new sidewalks um that trackless tractor 220,000 and that holder tractor is shown at 135. Um that's a little bit older number. It's probably higher than that at this point. Um, but you can see those are very expensive pieces of equipment and those are ones that we do use, especially the trackless year round. We use those in the summer for mowing ponds, sweeping trails, all that kind of stuff. So, those do see the year- round use. Um, and you can kind of see that with the maintenance cost obviously being higher. Uh, the John Deere tractor, that's something new. So, that used to be a Bombader, uh, it was called kind of a big tracked piece of equipment, similar in cost to that trackless or the holder. Um, but it only got used in the winter and we used it for sidewalks, but over time we haven't found it to be um the best piece of equipment. It's just it's it's more meant for going straight going in straight lines and going in these neighborhood sidewalks. It does not work well. Um, so we're working with this John Deere tractor or maybe a K Cabota tractor um that we can buy that you can see is a lot lower cost and we're just working with a manufacturers. Can we outfit it to be small enough to fit on our sidewalks? Most of our sidewalks are 5 ft wide and you need equipment that's less than 5t wide. Uh because you have to have a little bit of play in there, right? In the winter time, you can't see under the snow. Where's the edge of the sidewalk? Um and you got to be able to maneuver around corners. So that is our goal for this year is to replace one of those really expensive pieces of equipment is we're going to be replacing it with the tractor instead. And then you can see the truck plow attachments. We just show $12,000 a piece because the pickup truck we would have regardless uh whether we were plowing with it or not. And then on the bottom you can see our cost labor cost built into that as well. So when you put all that together, we spend about 153,000 a year on those transportation trails and sidewalks and $46,000 a year on that 25 miles of the call the neighborhood sidewalks that are kind of um the question and the feedback we're looking for tonight. One last thing I want to talk about that's kind of a nuance with a city like Cottage Grove. When you think about maybe a Minneapolis or St. Paul in their residential areas, you've got just block pattern cities and you have homes on every frontage, right? So, it's fairly easy, I would say. I don't know if it's easy, but it's pretty straightforward to have residents clear their sidewalks um in Cottage Grove because all of our sidewalk is in newer neighborhoods. These are all neighborhoods that are built up with storm water ponds, parks, different open spaces. So this is an example up in the waters at Michael's Point where highlighted in blue is a city parcel and then that stretch of sidewalk is not in front of anyone's home. Um we've got a similar thing on the other culde-sac. So um typical standard is if a city asked residents to shovel their sidewalks, they're doing it directly adjacent to their property. So this is an example of something where we would have to go up and remove snow from that small section of property regardless. That was probably one of the main reasons that it it when we looked at it four or five years ago that we continued to do what we did because all of our developments are scattered with these little sections of sidewalk. Not just the fact that we have to drive and do them, but you look at how we have to get on that. It's kind of a dead end with where the person would shovel. So, are we getting on in their driveway and then clearing their sidewalks now? They don't have to clear sidewalk and everyone else does. There's just a lot of challenges with that. One other example is up in the Eastbrook development. You can see this is a city pond in that open space. It's a dry pond. We call an infiltration basin. There's no water, but you can see two different sections of city sidewalk that are kind of landlocked, if you want to say, by residential sidewalk in front of people's homes. So, um, this kind of exists all throughout our neighborhoods. Um, we just took a couple examples for now. If the commission wanted, we could probably look more at exactly how many locations are there, how many what how many miles of sidewalk is it versus the rest, right? we could get more information on that, but this is definitely one of the challenges of asking residents to do it and what's the benefit of that because we'd be driving through all of these neighborhoods clearing these small sections um regardless. So, with that, that's that's really the numbers I have. That's some of the the challenges. I just wanted to present it to the commission tonight and certainly get the feedback. Is there more information you'd like to see? And, you know, as you think about this, we can talk about it more at a future meeting. >> All right. Well, thanks, Ryan. and um I'll open it up to the commissioners. Are there any questions or comments at this point? >> I think it'd be really interesting to see kind of a survey of other cities and what they're doing at some of the older suburbs like you mentioned Minneapolis, St. Paul, I know like Columbia Heights where I happen to work are kind of have that traditional model where residents >> shovel their own sidewalks. But if you don't have the information be helpful to know what other similar suburbs do. >> Yeah, we can do that. Commissioner, we did do, you know, a little bit of a review at at some cities. I would say the majority, just at a high level, more cities have the residents clear them than not, I would say. >> Um, but there are other cities like Oakdale that do they do clear it. I think something we could look at with that is some of the growing cities is how do they handle how do you handle your new growing neighborhood areas? Because if you look at Woodbury for example, they'd have really similar issues with all the ponds and such. So, right. Um, if you be I should have added if you put the ponds behind the homes that eliminates that frontage issue, but then we have bad access to our ponds. So, um, if you go to a lot of the neighborhoods in the 2000s, the home the ponds are all tucked behind all the houses. Um, so there is no pond frontage, but we have really bad access to those ponds. So, our new standard is to have the ponds adjacent to a street so Gary and his crew can get in and do the work easier. >> Okay. >> Other questions? >> Other questions? Yeah, I was actually going to mention one of the first things I noticed when I moved down here was uh the snow removal in the residential neighborhoods. It's incredibly refreshing as a, you know, as a new resident coming to an area that you're not real familiar with. >> All of a sudden, you see a snow plug go racing by and poof, all your snow's gone off your sidewalk. So, I did appreciate that. Uh how if you were just to make a wag at it, how many neighborhoods are like those two photos? Is it is it pretty prevalent? >> Uh yep, commissioner. I would say that especially after 2013, it's it's very prevalent. Every neighborhood, every neighborhood would have some section of sidewalk we have to plow. Um, like I said, where we have a little bit of sidewalk in that 2000s era, you know, Timber Ridge, things like that is where you maybe won't have it, but ever since 2013, >> you would have that situation. >> Yeah. So, you end up actually transporting or driving essentially to every >> every neighborhood to remove snow anyway. >> Yep. That is one of our considerations cuz these machines, while they do have like a road gear, they go maybe like 18 miles an hour. So, it's not, you know, the pickups that can get around really effectively, um, can't plow these sidewalks, you know, they can get on a road and drive around. So, >> one of the other things I thought was super refreshing, too, is that because you guys are out in the mornings and all of the snow is plowed, it's easy to walk on the residential sidewalks for school age kids. They don't have to walk through the snow because it's the sidewalks are plowed to the bus stops. And then also people that run and whatever other winter activities they do outside that involves traversing on a sidewalk. They're plowed. So I think that's uh certainly a thing to take into consideration too when you look at the costs. I don't know. I mean I don't know what the total tax what the total budget is for the city. But I think it's that seems like a fairly small >> total cost of ownership for plowing with over 100 mileund and some miles of sidewalk >> 12. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, the total tax I mean that's more but the plowing budget if you take this and then the roads we plow about 180 mi of roads it's about a million dollars. So this is you know roughly you know 20% to that budget I would say. >> Wow. >> So so it's a it's a it's a significant chunk but obviously the the the road plowing is a lot higher. >> Yeah. >> So as a resident of Cottage Grove I wanted to say thank you for currently like plowing and shoveling the sidewalks. It it really is great. So I'm echoing what Nate said. um do appreciate that. But questions regarding I read in the the the thing here regarding what are some of the proposed options? You know, should we have our residents do it and if they don't do it, we would find them. >> And so now you're competing with neighborhoods that have sidewalks on one side of the street and not the other. So now you're >> I'm speaking on behalf of the residents, not just myself, but >> different people will plow different they have different definitions. So, what's good enough? >> Mhm. >> Um, kind of like lawn and maintenance care, you know. Um, so it comes back to what are some of the other cities paying for their fines. It would be interesting to know that. >> And then yes, we have a sidewalk, but we don't utilize a sidewalk as much as other people do for, you know, you know, walking their dogs or exercising and stuff. >> So, I bring that up because I have a question on assessments. If the roads in front of our houses are are fixed, we have to pay assessments for that, which I get. But for sidewalks, is it just the homeowner who has to pay the assessment fees for that or is it the whole neighborhood that pays for that? >> That's a great question, Commissioner. So, the entire neighborhood pays for all the sidewalks collectively. Okay. >> No matter if you have them or not. And actually, the neighborhood pays for 45% and the general tax pays for 55 actually. >> Okay. Well, that's good to know because I I one I didn't know that. But then when we have our own sidewalks and we don't do it within a certain amount of time, then we would be assessed a fine, but the rest of the neighborhood wouldn't be assessed fine. >> And so trying to make that fair, if that's the right way to say that, >> um that would be a question that would come up. >> Yeah. And that that is a fair that's a interesting way you say it because sometimes it comes up of, you know, all the taxpayers are paying for the sidewalk removal, but they don't all have a sidewalk in front of their house. But depending on what neighborhood you live on, maybe you can use them, maybe you can't. But it's it's a flip side, too. You're being required to remove it when your neighbor doesn't have to. The fines, we could look into what other cities do more. I know from personal experience, one city I used to live in before I moved here, um, it was hefty. I mean, that was 6 years ago, um, they had, it basically ended up almost being $200, they had like a $50 >> per event. >> Yep. If you didn't do it. Yep. They had a now I'll go on a little bit because they had a $50 like inspection fee then $100 removal fee then a $50 reinspection fee. Um but what I can say is is it's a lot of work to do that. You know so we have 25 miles in our town in front of homes. There could be 30 to 40 to even 50 snow events a year. I mean that's a full-time job to try and manage that effectively. Um and I can tell the town I lived in um they just weren't they weren't done right. So, I mean, by the end of winter, half the sidewalks were just packed in with snow a foot deep and half the sidewalks were clear. >> Um, because it is a lot of work to try and make, by my estimation, probably about 13 to,400 homes shovel the sidewalks. >> Wow. Okay. Thank you. >> You know, Ryan, you brought up a good point then these deadheaded or, you know, sections of that there's no homes on them. M >> I think too when you look if you go back and look at that to get the number of like how many instances there are. It's probably more for for the council, I'd probably have you look too at the walking distances from our our schools that are within those areas >> cuz I know the elementarymentaries are a onem walking radius, your middle schools are a 1.5 y >> and your high schools are technically two. Now I know a lot of those are major roads that are going to get done anyways, but how many of them would be affected within the neighborhoods themselves? because that was my fear too is not having them all cleared at the same time >> to get to and it could even be a bus stop but I was thinking more at least for at the school level to segregated a little bit especially for those walkers >> at this point I think that's another critical data point that has to be brought up at this point because I'll admit it sounds to me like anytime there's a snow event superintendent gets a hold of our local cities both K es especially our you know our four major ones >> you know where are you guys at with plowing and do you feel comfortable by time school starts we can get the kids and the buses through there? Yes or no? And that's usually when the superintendent will make the call at that point. So >> knowing that where if what we have this 48 hour rule for a resident to clear it, >> that's that's not going to be a very um fruitful way of getting it done in my mind. And I I think I was like with Nate too. I was kind of curious like out of the total budget and if you broke down just this little incident here, this one line item, if you broke it down, not the total plowing budget, >> y >> I'd segregate it down to that little bit. And if it's if it's in if we're getting into less than 1% then to me I think it's a great benefit to have for our our community as a as a benefit >> because again we have a lot of people using the trails for walking and stuff and to have that all done consistently >> has a lot of of merit in my mind. Yeah, that's that's I I just want to stress this too. Like um in my previous place of residence, they had a lot of snow events and it was typically very high volume snow events. And what didn't happen was the city didn't plow a lot of the sidewalks the main along the main roads >> and they would have 4T of snow on them. So what people do? Well, they got to get to the bus stop or got to get to work or school or something somehow. So they walk in the road, >> which to me is like >> frightening for some of these kids, you know, trying to walk to school or walk to the bus stop. >> Yep. >> So yeah, when it comes down to how much it costs, like how much is a kid getting hit by a car worth? >> Uh I would say >> we can justify the budget by plowing sidewalks at this in any case. So, >> um, >> yeah, that's definitely a consideration. Like you mentioned the the distance to the school, like >> how do you how do you enforce a resident to shovel their sidewalk within eight hours or something so people can actually traverse their sidewalks? >> I know we don't get 36 inch snowfalls on the regular here, but >> it does happen. So, it's something to at least consider. >> No, and that's that's good. And we can I think working with our JS department, we can do that because they did all the mapping for the sidewalks. So I they pretty easily can drop in all the school zones, create the radius, and we could figure out how many miles of that, especially the residential sidewalk, the ones that were more focused on for this policy. We could look at that. >> Yeah. >> I would just say it's also not just kids walking to school, but walking to their bus stops, you know, having that accessible >> um because that's obviously very important, too. So, >> no, that's a good point, Commissioner. And and one thing in terms of options I can add, it's not really specific to the policy, but trying to make the program more cost-effective, just looking at those types of equipment. Um, we have traditionally had a 5-ft sidewalk standard, which feels good and usable. But if we switch to a sixoot sidewalk standard, the options for equipment just open up um, a huge amount because so much equipment out there is 5t wide. And I'm not putting a five- foot machine on a five foot sidewalk because you're just going to tear every yard up. and wreck irrigation heads and dog fences. But if you have a sixoot sidewalk now, you can look at five foot machines. Um, and they're even lower costs than that John Deere tractor, but still maintainable um, you know, by our staff. So, that's something that we're looking to do. Areas that have five foot, we're kind of stuck with them right until maybe a future reconstruct way down the road. But as we move development east of Keats, um we are looking to go to sixoot sidewalk so we can start like our our next sidewalk route if we continue to do it. Could be a cheaper machine >> with that sixoot sidewalk. That additional foot, would it just eat into the the city's easement essentially in the front portion of the lot. So the landowner wouldn't actually be out anything. It would just >> That's correct. Yep. We would add So right now it's a 9 foot boulevard. We would go to an 8ft boulevard is what we would do. So >> fantastic. Just again, every time you say sidewalk, you're talking cement trail. It's pass. >> Yep, that's correct, Council Member Theiti. So, yeah, sidewalk always concrete and and then the trails are always those 8 foot wide batuminous trails that we plow with our pickups. And even from that cost standpoint, I think you used to see just out of habit, like you go to Ravine Parkway here, there's a sidewalk on one side, trail on the other. Nowadays, we just do two trails. It's wider. You can, and not that that was wrong by any means. Um, it's just looking over time at the cost, right? We can plow it so much easier with pickups and to be honest, the extra couple feet is nice for users as well. So, >> I know this isn't part of the conversation, but I will say thank you to your entire department on the excellent job of plowing this the sidewalks and the the trails every year I've lived here. It's just incredible. >> Mhm. It's really nice to be able to go out on a decent December or February day and be able to walk in the morning and walk your dogs and not worry about breaking your neck on a patch of ice or something. So, yeah, thank you so much. Seriously, you guys do amazing work. >> So, Ryan, from a process standpoint for the commission, um what are next steps for us? Are you going to be bringing this back to us and for a recommendation to give to council or is it really for us to give that tonight and then it's going going to council? I'm kind of curious. >> You know what? I was going to see kind of how the conversation went. I mean, there is a lot of good questions you asked with some feedback that I think would be useful that I could present to the commission. >> Sounds pretty clear what what your feelings is. >> True. Yep. Yep. >> And this is the first I've seen of the the data and that's that's good and everything else. So, >> you know, you're I think I think your input uh is definitely, >> you know, good. I I I don't know if you have to bring it back to him for any other level decision, but >> yeah, we we can we'll we'll look at how this data comes together. At a bare minimum, we could provide it to the commission directly just so you can see what it looks like. So, >> and you mentioned earlier this, but I think there would be value in comparing. So if you have to start trying to enforce >> the issue of what is the cost associated that with that compared to continuing doing what we're doing and you know is it ultimately you know kind of negates the whole thing if you're trying to enforce something that is going to be real challenging to do too. So, >> yep. No, I think that's something we can look at for sure. >> And the only other solve idea if the if the council were to come forward and say, "No, we want to go to residents doing this." My my only thought there was where you have those areas where we would quote unquote be a city, maybe work with that like if if I lived on that corner lot, I have a snowblower and if you came to me and said, "Hey, we'll pay you a stipen just to do this little section besides the front of your house." So, I throw that out as a suggestion that um if council comes forward and says, "Nope, we're going to bring this to the residents and they're dang it, they're going to start shoveling their sidewalks, right?" >> Um I thought of that idea too. Um you know, for those people that are going to be that's why I started thinking too is shoveling versus snowblowers. You know, how many residents quote unquote have a snowblower versus so it's not as labor intense for that person than do a person that doesn't have one. Mhm. >> So that was the only thing as a as an idea that I thought going forward moving at that point. >> The thought, excuse me, the thought was is that, you know, if somebody has a snowblower, it might be pretty easy just to, you know, take a couple swipes in the on the sidewalk, >> but you also do besides if somebody's shoveling. I guess the other the other aspect there's a lot of people that probably just have a service that there with a you know plow pickup plow or something that comes in and clears a driver which that would actually be then more difficult for the for the the sidewalk too. They could sidewalk. >> True. >> And that is a fair point council makes. So, I I live on a sidewalk in Cottage Grove and I snowb blow it. If I mean, if if if my guys didn't come through yet, I just clear it because I don't know why. I don't know. I just do it probably because I used to live in a town that made me do it. Um, but we see that a lot. So, we see people who have snowblowers >> and they'll just do it cuz they want it >> perfect, right? And our machines get it clear. They don't get it perfect, right? So, some people will still come by with their just a little bit left over. the blowers don't scrape right on the ground with our type of blowers. So, they might clear it off. So, people still do some work, I would say. >> Well, it's funny you say that because I know Gary would probably go by my house cuz I have a catch basin right there and I don't we don't have sidewalks, but I still take my snowblower and make sure that that catch basin is always clear cuz I put a marker there at the beginning of the season cuz I like someday he's going to drive by and he's going to go, "Commissioner Cath, you're not keeping your your catch basin open for me." So, >> we'll drop a shovel off. >> Yeah. >> So, with that then I think if there's no other questions or feedback for Ryan, I think we can probably move on to our next item then. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you, Ryan. We have a business item next. It's um our the approval of our 2025 hunting map. That'll be presented by our deputy director of public safety and our police captain um Brad Peterson. All right. Good evening, commissioners. Um, so as you know, each year we take a look at our um hunting maps for archery and firearms, and staff provides a uh proposed uh map with any necessary changes to alter those uh maps where hunting is and is not permitted in Cottage Grove. Um, so typically, uh, we do that a little bit earlier in the year and we bring that to commission first after staff has done their analysis with some recommendations, give you a chance to provide some feedback and then it goes to council for uh, final approval. Uh, this year, I'll be honest, um, the calendar got away from us a little bit and we, uh, looked at the calendar, realized that hunting season was about to start in a couple weeks and we didn't have time to follow that traditional uh, protocol. And so this year's hunting maps have already been approved by uh council. So for that I've uh uh asked for your >> need approval from us for approval. It's already been approved. But I I apologize for that. Um but I also want you to know that your feedback is is important in the process. Um it's an ever evolving process and so anything that you bring up now will carry forward into next year's recommendations. So, as you know, we take a take a look at a number of things, including the past year's hunting related incidents and complaints. Um, all the development that has happened over the past year and what's uh slated to happen in in the next calendar year. Um, changes in parcel sizes due to sales or other things like that. And then staff uh decides based on our ordinance um where hunting is and is not allowed is pretty black and white. Uh so really it's just a matter of looking at those variables and and applying the ordinance and then staff draws up the map where it is and is not allowed. So for 20 25 and 26 there's very minimal changes. Um on Lehi and um Lamar Avenue there are four parcels that changed in size. Um I presume due to sale. Um, I don't know exactly why, but I know that staff looked at it and the size of the parcel changed so that they're no longer um that no longer allows uh hunting on those parcels. So, one of those changes is for firearms, which requires 40 continuous acres, and then the other three parcels are for archery hunting, which requires, I think, five acres. I'll verify that here. [Applause] Correct. So five acre parcel for for archery season. Um so those are the only four changes that were proposed and approved by council. Um so I'll stand for your questions and and recommendations. >> All right. Thanks. Um any comments or questions from commissioners? No, I appreciate how easy to read these maps are. >> Yeah, terms of color coding and stuff. Nice. >> And then yeah, just a comment to u first of all, I appreciate that the city is still open. You know, where we do have some open land that do allow for archery hunting. Um I think that helps with the population of the herd of the deer itself. Then that maybe it'll mean less car accidents and stuff like that. So hopefully we get a few hunters out there that helped keep the herd down. I know what it was a number of years ago when there was an organization that actually came into Ravine Park, I think it was to help clean the herd a little bit. >> So doing that I think is very beneficial as as we get more and more grow, you know, our growth goes and enough traffic on some of our major highways in. So I do appreciate that. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Well, that uh completes our business item for this evening. we can move on to our commissioner's reports. I'll open it up to commissioners this evening for any comments or questions. >> I think it'll be in Brad's presentation. >> Just kidding. >> No comments. All right, then we'll move into our staff reports then. Ryan, I guess we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I can start uh commission. So, first thing and the biggest thing I want to talk about is next Thursday night. So, September 25th is our public works and parks open house. We do that every other year on the odd number years. So, that's a big event down at public works. We usually get around 1,000 to maybe 1300 people um come out for that event. Um it's from 3:00 to 7:00. So, from 3:00 to 4:00 is a sensory friendly hour. So, not all the music and equipment operating. Then from 4:00 to 7:00 um is the is kind of the main public works openhouse event. So, um, we have, you know, food there. The family can get a hot dog, um, to eat. We have all the equipment. Um, the staff are, you know, working with those and we let like some of the kids ride along on on certain pieces of equipment. They got like a giant sandbox that kids can dig and play in. We have vendors, all the different apartments, have all of their equipment set up. So, it's a really fun night. Um, very, very popular. So, I definitely invite you guys all down there uh, next Thursday night for that. Um then from a construction standpoint, our intermediate zone water treatment plant um since the last time I was here with the commission that started work behind the central fire station. Um so that has been going well. Right now it looks like we dug a huge lake because the first step is pouring all the concrete that's in the called the basement of the treatment plant where all the water is in all these different big tanks. Um it's like 15,000 yards of concrete. So 1,500 concrete trucks that's going to start here in October. That'll go all the way through the winter and then wrap up probably next June or July before they start setting uh tip up panels for the building. So it's a uh it's a huge effort um for that. All the site work and grading has been going on up until now. Um you've probably seen like a lane closure on 80th at times um by the fire station. That's we're going to have a new access off of 80th as well. That way, you know, all the construction can come off there and in the future semis have a way to get through uh the site without impacting the neighborhood as heavily. And we also did not want to impact the fire station. So, we did not want to use any of the existing fire station access points to 80th. And then we're widening a road that went behind the fire station so we can have two-way traffic um to get to the treatment plant. So, that's been a big effort here um over the last several months. So, you'll see that work continue for actually three years. March of 28 is when the plant is initially operational and will be totally complete in March of 2029. Um, so we got a long ways ahead of us on that one. The Lozone water tower I've talked about in the past. That's the new water tower that's going kind of just south of the park and ride on the other side of the railroad tracks. All the foundation work is done and the permits are getting approved to start building the tower. So, you'll start seeing concrete go up here um this fall and go vertical. So, you'll slowly start to see the concrete column of that tower come up um behind the parking ride. So that's exciting. That will be done next August. So we'll do all the concrete this year and then work on the tank next year and painting um the tank next year and then get operational in August. Um another really important project, but one that you maybe haven't noticed too much is our sewer lining project. So, um, one of our oldest and, um, most full sanitary sewers flows, um, underneath kind of the Jamaica business area under Highway 61 and then under public works into the dog park and it continues south through the dog park from there. Um, but that section to the dog park has not been lined and that that's an original sewer from like 1960 era. Um, and it's concrete and it's getting to that age where we knew it it needed rehab. Um the hard part is you have to get all the sewer out of there because 3/4 of the city flows through that. Um so it's a big bypass pumping. So you can see if you go on East Point Douglas between Merchants Bank and Subway, the road driveways closed. We're pumping all it out of there and then there's a pipe that goes kind of to the North Jamaica roundabout and then you can see it in the ditch and then it dives under the roundabout, comes up the other side, then it follows the fence down to Menards and goes into the Mech Council manhole. So, we're bypass pumping all that sewage while they line the pipe with a new liner. That'll give us basically, you know, another 50 to 100 years of life on that sewer. So, um it's not that the sewer was failing. You don't want a sewer like that to get to the point of failing. This is more of a proactive um because we're getting to the end of life of that concrete and now we won't have to worry about that cuz going under Highway 61 is a huge risk, right, for the the city if if it's not maintained properly, which is what we're doing. So, that's what that work has been. And if you've seen that pipe there, if you've kind of seen a little bit of activity, that's that sewer lining project. So, um, that'll get wrapped up here probably in the next two weeks and then they'll get all the restoration done and and be wrapped up. So, with that, I will may turn over to Gary real quick before public safety for some street updates. Good evening. So, storm water crews been real busy this time of year. Um they're inspecting roughly about 300 catch basins. They have sumps in them and they're about three feet deep and that holds all the sand and debris before it gets to a pond and which will make it down the river. So they're with the use of a utility truck they're sucking that out and cleaning them out. Um we're continuing to mow along all rightways, ditches, country roads, ponds, get that buttoned up for winter. Uh we're done completed paving operations and now we're kind of going through town just doing pothole patching, any minor patching to get buttoned up before winter comes. We're also hard to believe talking plowing already, but we are already going through all the trucks getting them ready for the season, preparing maps, um seeing what changes we have to make for that. Um, we're planting roughly about 135 trees finally from the storm of August 29th to 24. So, make a lot of residents happy to get them trees back in. Um, other than that, Ed, just getting ready for winter. Any questions for me? Good. >> Questions for Gary? >> I kind of have an odd question. So some of the neighborhoods have fences, especially like along 80th, they have the white kind of picket fences around them. Who's who maintains those essentially if there's something wrong with them? >> The homeowners do on So yeah, all the fences are residents fence irresponsible to make. >> So the like on the case on 80th it' be the homeowners >> which you see along like you're talking like 80th Jamaica. All the fences you seeong Yep. them are all residential fences. >> Okay. >> We mow roughly about a foot on the other side on that side of the sidewalk and most of them do all the trimming and yeah m maintaining their fence and make sure they can withhold up against plowing. Obviously they get some stone pushed up against them. If if the fence is if you see like one fence that's the same that's going between properties and so forth could have been a homeowners association that originally you know put a fence up and then then it should be the homeowners >> that actually is doing things to maintain it. >> Well, I know I'm speaking specifically from Keats down 80th towards Jamaica. There's a right >> there's an area with white fence. So that picket fence on the north side of the road, >> that's actually is like a homeowners association fence. That one is the picket fence is. So the one from Keats to where the home start there >> because I live in we live in that neighborhood and we don't have an association and and partly why I'm asking is because that fence has been broken now for quite a while because there was a car that went through it and would just trying to figure out who ultimately responsible for repairing something like that. >> Well, I Oh, go ahead. Just just I would assume though that that right that would probably be the the homeowners that's actually on their property now that if the homeowners association is gone >> y >> uh then it' probably be the whoever property is is on that >> okay >> now own the fence you know it's it's something like just same as cross uh um hardwood from a hidden valley you So, they had a homeowners association. They had two huge like monuments off of hardwood there if you've ever gone by there. And their homeowners association went away. They let it go by and it turns out they didn't have something documented properly. So, now one of those monuments, the the homeowner just kind of put their fence right around it. So, you know, you it it uh uh you know, and I and I I I live in Hidden Valley. I I believe in homeowners associations. It's it's something that, you know, I'm I'm starting to get told that well, you know, we can't require it or anything, but but but again, it you know, I think it does uh um I think it does help a neighborhood to to have something like that, but it doesn't mean that you can't get like your homeowner association, you know, kind of back in play if if you basically just need to get some, you know, get some of the homeowners together and things like that and and maintaining some of that. But otherwise, it'd be, you know, it would be the probably the homeowner. And I don't know if there's any city regulation that that would require them to fix that fence, you know. Yeah, I can't think of a regulation that we have, you know, on that, but we could certainly ask our code enforcement department about that. Um, but I do know, I think council member They's correct, you know, those fences are in private property. So, if an HOA does kind of dissolve, it's still the backyard fence, you know, for a home. So they would be the ones responsible for it. >> So question for Ryan. Back to the 80th Street treatment plant. >> Yep. >> Do we have any numbers of the amount of trucks once the the plant is up and functional? >> Is there an estimate of how many vehicles are going to be coming through that new road? >> So yeah, it's actually very small. Um we had to build it because we do have to get semis through and there's no way to turn a semi no way to turn a semi around on that property. was so tight. Um, but uh the the actual media, we call it the media that does the PAS treatment, that only gets changed out like once every four years. So like once every four years, you know, maybe seven seven or 10 semiis would come through. Okay. >> Um and then the chemical deliveries, those are about weekly, but that's kind of like a like a box truck. That's not a big semi-truck. So about once a week, a box truck would come through um for chemical deliveries as well. So, um, I keep saying the plant is a pretty nice neighbor once it's done. During construction, it's it's a lot. But once it's done, it's quiet. There's no noise. There's no odors. It's water treatment. And then there's very little traffic as well. >> Well, the reason why one of the reasons why I brought it up is just when now that school's in session, you got Park High School that puts a lot of traffic on that road in the morning at a certain time and in the afternoon when they're releasing. Y. So, I was thinking of truck traffic coming in at the same time and trucks trying to merge onto that road with kids coming out of there. >> I didn't know if they, you know, you could tell the contractor or the the owner say may not want your trucks coming in at this this window of time as this high school is either coming to session or releasing at the end of the day, too. But it doesn't sound like it's going to be that much traffic to worry about them, >> especially in during construction. There's more. So, we can definitely talk about that. We have weekly meetings with the contractors on updates. So, we could talk to them about that traffic. And even though I said a lot of concrete trucks, it is over the course of almost a year. So, each day it's not as much of a impact. And it's usually more not towards the end of the day because they want to get all the concrete in and work it and and such before the end of the day. So, we can definitely talk to the contractor about that. >> Okay. Great. >> You're going to bring the concrete concrete trucks in on 80th and not from the neighborhood from the south, right? >> That's correct. Yep. >> Okay. Yep. >> All right. Any other questions? >> I was actually gonna ask before I forget, Ryan, what uh what is the material that is going in that sewer existing sewer pipe? What is the liner? Is it is it like a composite plastic or? >> Yeah, it's like a plastic liner. So, it's flexible. So they can pull it through and then it's the it's sized perfectly for that size of concrete and then it's a UV special UV light that they pull through it and it cures it very quickly over the course of the same day. Um so when I like when they bypass all the sewage it's only during the day and then the new liner is done by the end of the day and then they let it go again. So >> science. Wow. So the existing was concrete though. >> Concrete. That's correct. Yeah. >> Okay cool. Thank you. >> So maybe I'll work my way from left to right then. Brad, you're in the middle. if you have an update for um uh safety and police for us this evening. >> Yeah, I'll give you an update on the police department. I'll give you quick update on staffing to start off with. So, I'm proud to say that we're um at 100% staffing in the police department now. Um so, if you recall back to an earlier update at the beginning of the year, we started the year um in a significant deficit with staffing. I think we were six down in the patrol division at one point. Um and so we've recovered from that. Um in large part due to the success success of our cso and our cso cadet program. Um really excited to let you know that our cso cadet program which launched this year was a huge success. Um we uh um found it to be extremely beneficial. We have one on solar patrol now who graduated from that program. I shouldn't say graduated but worked their way through that program. And then the second officer is uh just finishing her schooling this week and will be starting field field training um probably next week. So um thumbs up to the cso cadet program. Um the downside of our reliance on our cso and cso cadet program is that we uh go through a lot of csos because they become police officers or gain experience here and go on to become a a police officer in another community. So, uh, we find ourselves hiring a lot of CSOS. Um, so we're going to be we're currently hiring, uh, three CSOS, hoping to start them by the end of the year. So, if you know any good candidates, uh, help us spread the message and, uh, um, we'll be doing interviews soon. U, I know there's no shortage of applicants. We have about 65 applicants as of this morning. So, uh, there's a rich talent pool. Um, and again, partly due to that CSO cadet program because they know that that's a direct pathway to their career goals. So, uh, kind of helps us on both ends. Um we were fortunate enough to get granted a renewal of the DWI traffic safety officer. So Loud and Renzel's position that he's held for the last calendar year um well I should say last fiscal year from October um through the current date um is getting renewed. So he's going to stay in that position through the rest of 2025's calendar year and then a new officer will assume that position. We're we're in the amidst the uh selection process for that position. Now um just to let you know, Louden has in the neighborhood of 130 to 140 DWIS in the last um 11 plus months. So far exceeded our goal. Our goal was 100 in a calendar year and uh far exceeded that. Um, and then along those same lines of traffic safety, that's probably one of the things that we hear most about from the community is they have a particular complaint about speeding or um, you know uh reckless driving or or whatever their complaint is. We hear about it a lot and we try our best to address it with our patrol division, but they have other responsibilities, too. So, um, something new that we're going to do in 2026 is, um, each day shift, uh, so Monday through, uh, actually 7 days a week is going to have a traffic safety officer. Um, so be there'll be dedicated officers, uh, um, to address that daytime traffic safety issue. So, um, they'll have some additional duties, too. So, they're not going to be 100% focused on traffic safety, but as staffing and call volume and other things allow, that'll be their primary job is traffic safety. So, I'll continue to give you updates on that, but we're excited about that potential. Um, along the lines of grant opportunities, we did submit a uh grant application to the cops hiring grant office asking for another case management officer. So, one of the things that you see before you is a update on the case management unit. Uh, we put those statistics and and information together about a month and a half ago. Uh, we knew that that unit was incredibly successful and influential in the community, a huge benefit to the community, a great investment, but we didn't realize how impactful they were until we actually put these numbers together. And so, I want to draw your attention to page two. um the the slide titled outcomes. And so what this does is compares um the number of calls for service, arrest, hospitalizations in that client base before CMU and after they were enrolled in the CMU program and given some resources and um some extra love from the police department. And I should also add the EMS department because they play a role in our CMU unit as well. Um, so you can see that before CMU about 650 calls for service, 21 arrests, 199 hospitalizations. A lot of those are mental health related where they are put on emergency holds and transport to the hospital. Um, after CMU, you can see a 91% reduction in calls for service, 62% reduction in arrest, and 80% reduction in in hospitalizations. And that uh accomplishes, you know, a lot of major and important goals, right? It's unburdening our public safety department. It's u resulting in this particular vulnerable client base ending up in jail less often, ending up on an emergency holds in the hospital less often. Um getting them the resources that they need to actually uh become u successful, productive uh um well members of our society. Um, and so I just wanted to share that with you to show you uh how impactful that unit is and understand why we're asking for more uh resources in that department to staff more of those positions. So any questions on CMU in particular before I move on to the next topic? >> Is it a is it a state funded grant, private funded grant or >> federal? >> Federal Okay. And I should also add that council is also considering uh um funding that position internally. Um not immediately probably but uh hopefully in the not too distant future. Right. Dave >> Dave's Dave. >> Yeah. Maybe >> I was going to ask uh the outcomes snapshot. What's the time frame for each for before and after? Is it a year? No, it's it's it's hard to um the short answer is I don't know. Uh we we could put some parameters on that on that query, but we didn't in this case. We just wanted to know John Doe before and after. Um so, >> oh yeah, I was just curious if it was like, you know, 12 months and 12 months after or what, but the those those outcomes are incredible. >> Yeah. >> No matter no matter the time frame, they're they're outrageously fantastic. So, thank you. This is >> And just to uh jump on with Brad here, we do have a community paramedic in there and one of the hardest things ever is how do you quantify prevention? So, the fact that we could even quantify that as a piece of that, but you look at that and so I think everything we see there, you're probably doubling that impact just knowing that it's hard to do prevention and a simple visit by somebody is probably preventing six more. So, I mean, just applaud that work and knowing that it's so hard to even get those numbers, let alone getting something that's actually measurable. So, it really is impressive. >> Yeah, I remember you guys talking about this uh at like one of my first uh commission meetings. This is fantastic results. It's amazing. >> Yeah. I also want to take this opportunity to to note that um statewide uh they they launched a model case man I I forget the name of it. It's in your packet but essentially they they um recognized our success and modeled their their model policy and and practice after what we've done. So we are a huge contributor to the statewide program. So um just wanted to throw that out there. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Wish I could say I could take some credit for it, but this was all done long before me. So, all right. So, moving on. Um, another update. Uh, I mentioned in the past meeting that, uh, we're starting a trial for the Flock automated license plate reader program. So, we we launched a two-year pilot project, uh, where we're, uh, installing 12 cameras throughout town, uh, which are automated license plate readers. Um, and so those license platinums are strategically placed throughout town. Uh, in your packet, you can see the locations. Um, the intention is to essentially gate the city of Cottage Grove. So, as any anytime somebody comes into or out of Cottage Grove, we're reading their license plate. Um, it's important to note for the commission and the public at large that um, these this technology is not used to track people um, or really vehicles for that matter. Uh what is what it does is it reads the license plate, performs a query against uh the state uh motor vehicle database and NCIC and it looks for hits for um stolen vehicles, stolen license plates, um wanted individuals if they're particularly tied to that vehicle. Um and registered owners of that vehicle who may have a revoked or suspended driver's license, warrants, things like that. um if we want to search for people or um get hits off of uh this technology for a person, we need a warrant to do that. And so generally, we're not doing that unless we're doing an active investigation on a particular individual and probable causes been developed and things like that. But so it's really important to understand that this isn't an example of big brother tracking everybody's movements and and collecting data on on individuals. Um and for that matter, we don't even um retain uh this this data or really search this data unless we have a particular need to. It's purged automatically over time. Um and um so that's how that works. Um so I just want to let you know that we've got four out of the 12 cameras up and running. The last eight um are still waiting on on permitting from the county and state. Hope to get that soon. But you can see with only four cameras operational, um we've we've read and queried almost a million plates already. So we're averaging about 30,000 plate reads per day. And that's producing uh pretty remarkable results u that are actionable. So um that's leading to significant arrests, uh recovering stolen property, um apprehending want individuals, and making our roadway safer because we're taking those unlicensed drivers off of off of the streets. And so um in your packet you've got some of that data before you and I'd be happy to answer any of your questions on that. >> So you mentioned these were coming I think last commission meeting on my way here today. I happened to look up and to the left come through the roundabout down here. Is that one there? >> Which roundabout? >> Sorry. >> Innovation and East Point. >> It's Yeah, it's the it's the roundabout at the end of 70th or Yeah. 70th and Keats. >> No, we do not have one there. >> Okay. >> Um, so currently we have one at 80th and Hardwood. We have one at Innovation and East Point. And I'm going to have to look at my map to remember where the other is. [Applause] We have one by the Wakakota Inn and then we have another at Did I say 80th East Point yet? >> Yeah, >> 80th East Point. Yeah. So, >> based off of those cameras, that's an amazing volume of vehicles. Wow. >> Yeah. And on the last page there, you can see some of the data that I pulled today to show you some the nature of the of the incidents and arrest and citation that it's leading to. So, um, and that's only four cameras. And the other thing that's really cool about these two that I want to bring up is they're an incredibly important investigative tool. So, for example, if you were to report to me that last night my car was broken into and my home surveillance system captured a white sedan. All you know about the suspect is it's a white sedan, right? I could literally go into the system, type in white sedans between midnight and 6:00 a.m. and it was going to give me a list of all those vehicles. Now that gives me a lead that I can use to continue my investigation and and that capability is helping us solve crimes where otherwise we would have no leads. >> That's cool. So, when was the first date that this was implemented? >> In August. I forget the actual date. >> August. Like just last month. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Like there is a neighbor of mine who uh Amazon came to deliver a package but got and got out of the car but didn't put it in park and it went forward and crashed their garage door. >> Mhm. >> Um but there was nothing on the Ring camera that would say what type of vehicle it was and so they couldn't get Amazon would not take responsibility for it. >> Interesting. >> Which apparently is very common but had that been I would have let her know that. So >> cool. Thank you. Yeah. >> Do other cities use these like in >> Yeah, we're actually one of the the late comers to the program. So, it's been used in Woodbury for a couple years. Hastings use it. Hudson uses it. Um, just about every community is using it and so we were kind of the last of the party because we wanted some of the technology and the case law and things to develop a little bit uh before we jumped into it. >> Very nice. Do these metrics potentially help like traffic planning for you, Ryan? >> I mean, in terms of the license plate reading, I mean, not not necessarily, but it is interesting if they if they have a count number. You know, we have different ways of doing traffic counts. This can be >> could be like maybe if we just look at the data, right? It could be a very cost-effective way to get kind of a quick traffic count data. >> Yeah, that's kind of the first thing I was thinking when we looked at this volume. I was like it was very unsurprising to me. I didn't think we had that kind of volume on those between those four cameras, but that's incredible. >> And I can isolate the data to a particular camera. So, if you wanted to know how many cars drive past the Lakota in eastbound in a certain time frame, I can literally pick the camera, set the time frame parameters, and tell you how many cars went by or at least how many um license plates the the camera captured. >> Yeah. >> And it's capturing almost every plate. So, >> that's awesome. >> This is Yeah. Very impressive. Thank you. And then just a couple other quick updates. Um Rigs, our therapy K9, was certified. He's a really important member of our CMU team. So that was a huge milestone for us. Um we uh just recently got approval to add our third patrol K9. And we're in the process, I shouldn't say we, but the public safety board is in the process of fundraising for that. So, uh, hopefully Sydney, uh, Sydney Whan will get her new K9 in December, go to school in January and come online in the spring with our third patrol K9. And then, the public safety board was generous enough to give us a brand new drone. So, we're learning that new technology now, and that's going to give us some new, um, capabilities and replaces our outdated equipment. So, lot going on. Um, but uh, that's all I have for now unless you have questions. >> Just one last question. It's probably going to go more to Brad for um, traffic control. So, we redid hard hardwood and um 80th there by Pizza Ranch. All the the utility, but no signs, no stop sign or lights have went up yet. When do we estimate that's going to happen? >> That's a good question. So, I should have had that in my update. So, that is going to start getting worked on here end of September into October. Uh the new signals will go up and that was planned. Those signals just take so long um to go up and because it was already a side stop, we just left it as a side stop today. Um, sometimes we've had ones in the past where you're converting an always stop to a signal and you have to do that like right away once you start doing that work. Um, but yeah, they take about 8 months to get all that equipment. So, they should be up by the end of October. >> Okay, great. With that, any other questions for Brad? No. We'll move over to John for a fire update then for us this evening. >> Vice Chair Commission, thank you. So, first thing I don't it competes with the public works open house and we're going to try to beat it, but we do have our fire department open house October 7th uh the Tuesday in October. It's from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. It'll be held at our central fire station. Get a lot of great attendance and such. And we'll have live demonstrations, different community partners to um promote their different activities that they have going on. and we hope to see a good um or lot of hope to see a lot of folks there. Uh weather's always hit and miss. The first year we did on a Tuesday night, it was raining. Last year was beautiful. So, we're hoping for last year to replicate those results. So, hope to see you there. uh staffing kind of along with the police department. We've began the year at somewhat of a deficit for staff, but happy to report as of early October in a couple weeks, we'll be at full strength for our full-time uh firefighter paramedics, which has been a lot of work to get there. But we've also um hired a lot of great people. We have a great culture because of that. Uh we still continue to struggle with recruitment, retention of part-time folks. Um, we did lose some folks to just internal promotions to full-time, which we're very proud of keeping those folks, but that model continues to be difficult. So, that does have a big hindrance on our staffing, but we're very happy to get to the um full full-time strength as they do um cover about 16 out of 18 um full-time FTEs in our department. So, that is a big hall for them. With that said, we did have great success in our cadet program, which is the first time we're offering that. What makes our cadet program very unique for as a fire department is we actually offer them um a full-time job at 32 hours a week, a living wage. They're making I think $22 to start and then they also get health insurance and benefits. So the um we got about 90 applicants. We had to have three rounds of interviews just because of the the amazing talent within that group and we landed on one person that's going through the background phase right now. But just the um breadth and depth of the different folks's background and everything truly I think believe we're doing the right thing. Um this will be the first time we've done this, but we hope to replicate this. And longterm we'd like to get three cuz then each fire department 24-hour shift would kind of have one cadet to really mentor and um help develop. So um they will once they start, we assume they'll get through their background. uh they'll go to fire school and work their way up to actually going on on calls. But in that meantime, they're going to be doing a lot of public education, a lot of public outreach, learning kind of just the days in and days out of it, the fun stuff, the not so fun stuff, and really just become at the end of it a great firefighter um EMT, and then hopefully we can nab them full-time once those positions become open. So, we're very excited about that. And then as we kind of discussed in the past or this past year, we're doing our fire services evaluation study. The other term for that is a standards of cover. It's kind of a formatted uh program that's done throughout the United States. Uh we had our first the consultants we did through an RFP process. They did their first quote unquote on-site visit. So we got to see some of the preliminary data and of course preliminary data we also have to make sure aligns with kind of what makes sense and such. So there were some very small edits to that but that's looking everywhere from station placement for example station 4 still a sustainable place to do things and those sort of things and then out of this study gate uh some recommendations and how we move forward as a fire department everywhere from staffing operations and those things. Uh, and now in the coming weeks to months, we are on the agenda for the public service commission in November, but we may be inviting y'all to um kind of like a focus group session, and we're thinking about involving our other commissions as kind of like a community-based focus group. So, we're still solidifying the plans for that. So, we're still um coming up with that in more concrete, but just um I guess keep a lookout for those invites. And of course, we value your input. you're the perfect folks to show some of this stuff to and get your um feedback on that because truly it is something that'll probably determine our path for the next 10 years or so. So, it's a very important piece. And then um lastly, just thank you to Ryan and his team with like you can see that's a lot of work behind the fire station and we're seeing no impacts on our operations. So, it's truly been I mean I trust Ryan. So, when he told me they're going to minimize all that, I'm like, I know you will, but it's truly um played out that way. And I've just been very um happy with how that's been going and everything. So, uh you see all that stuff there, but just know that it's not impacting our operations. And frankly, some of our folks like the temporary driveway. It's a little less of a turn and actually works out very well. So, great communication's been working well and our trucks are getting out the door maybe even a little faster with that little shorter route through there. So, with that, um, take any questions that you may have. >> Any questions for John? >> I just one quick comment. Um, I do appreciate that we continue to honor 911. >> Um, coming up 80th Street with the the big flag and stuff is I I know it it always, you know, guy that's lived through it, right? It brings back that memory like just like that. So, I hope our community never ever forgets that day and I appreciate that our fire department puts that big flag out there, especially on a big major roadway like that. So, thank you for doing that. >> No, and thank you. We appreciate that. And actually, one thing we've um we started last year and now we're going to continue as long as we can. We uh go to the East Metro training facility in Maplewood and we actually what we've decided to do is start um every 9/11 that we would do our live fire training where we actually go there light fires and do training cuz we feel also from our own perspective as firefighters. The best way to honor them is to actually do the work that they went to work to do that day and lost their lives doing. So on top of those public displays, we're also doing that internal display and really going out there and doing the work that truly how we honor them and the work they did. So >> awesome. >> Thank you again for that. >> Thank you. >> With that, then we can move into our council comments. With that, we have Councilman Dave Theiti with us this evening. Any comments or updates? As you guys, you know, we spent a lot of time the last couple of months on budget and so forth. And I got the preliminary uh budget um out there, the last meeting, and there's a couple of uh agendas in there from uh um August and and the first one in September. I don't know if you guys have any questions about any items that are on those or anything like that uh or any other questions. Uh, >> any questions for Councilman Theiti? >> Nope. >> No, you're going to let we're going to let you off the hook easy this evening. >> All right. Well, then that will conclude our meeting this evening. I'll ask for a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll do a motion. >> Moved by Lisa. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by Jenny. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. Motion passes. Thanks everybody.