all right and we are ready chair okay we'll uh call the july 1st 2021 planning commission meeting to order uh we'll do roll call and jacob's here lanternman here shulock here mayor camp here and woo okay for those that would like please join us in the pledge of allegiance okay great well i welcome you all um this is our first time back since we went to the zoom meeting and i think we're all pretty excited we have a new commissioner that we haven't met before as well as a new planner so and it's good to see all you people back and we look forward to our interaction with you tonight um all right let's go to the approval of the agenda um i have uh just for notification so item six new business it says public comment opportunity we will not take public comment before each of the public hearings we have four public hearings for those that would like to speak about an issue that is not on our agenda under new business our next item is open forum and you're more than welcome to address the commission at that time is there any other questions or updates for our agenda all right if there are none i'll take a motion to approve the agenda so move i'll second it all right all those in favor say aye aye opposed all right agenda is approved okay item four is open forum if there is anybody here that would like to address the commission on an issue that again is not on tonight's agenda you're free to do so now by stepping up to the podium giving us your name and address anybody okay i should also add yeah we have an online component so members of the public who are joining us via zoom please raise your hand by either pressing star 9 or through your reactions button on the bottom of your screen so that you can participate in open forum if you'd like you're as long as it's about an item that's not on the agenda already if you could please uh state your name and your address and then until we get a microphone is it on i wouldn't know it should be on hello yep it's on um hi my name is ron ruling i'm from 8065 county road 116 which is across the street and it has a long it's a five acre with the bordering line of the m i development yesterday i found it came home and found out that 60 feet of my private fence of trees is now bare i no longer have privacy i'm in the pond across the street at a beautiful pond and last year i spoke with the engineer we walked areas about the plan i didn't realize there was a meeting last november that this all got approved i thought that was a protected wetland where the water from that pond connects to the west so i don't know what my repercussions are they did not remove trees on my property but if you look at the plot which i could pass around if you care to that be proper anyway i've lost about 60 feet of the private tree surrounded my property only because this my pond went five feet into this m i property now i have to figure out did they did they properly protect the wetlands which was the last understanding i had and what are my rep what i can do next because do i move the pond and put some trees back there because i don't have privacy i have like 60 feet of open open area now where it was the reason i bought the property 20 years ago was because it was trees surrounded okay thank you um you have anything to comment on that i i mean the first question i would have is were the trees on his property or the m i it sounded like they were on m i's property but what i would encourage is uh to have you reach out to kevin matson our city uh public works director i suspect you may have met with him or someone from his team last year yeah yeah um so if you met with him and then uh so i'd encourage him to reach out to the city uh take a look and if we need to schedule a call but there was tree removal up in that north portion there's a utility line going in and i think that's probably in that general location trying to think about your property exactly but he can meet with kevin if you give kevin a call and if you um if you if you need it natalie can send that contact info to you in the morning yeah yeah you're this one right yeah yeah yep so i i uh i'm familiar with it i don't remember off the top of my head but we'll get uh you in contact with kevin matson sure when speaking to kevin last year they walked the northern property line which extends from m i to the city hall top of the hill intersection here as a possible maintenance road along my on my property on the north north edge whether or not that was going to be a temporary access for septic maintenance temporary lift pump that's the last i had heard um no one's talked to me about that since if they plan to take a part of my northern property to put a road across or a temporary road i'm surprised i haven't heard anything if that's still a plan probably another question to uh yeah okay thank you you betcha uh natalie do we have anybody else i don't have any other cards for public forum um and i don't see anyone raising their hands online okay um ezra so jim you were online you saw the city council meeting last week and it gets hard to hear with this new audio system there were parts of the conversation i couldn't hear especially if they laid back in their chairs so as we address this for the benefit of our online viewers we'll try to keep it close to the microphone so okay item five minutes from june 3rd 2021. um does anybody have any questions comments or alterations corrections to the minutes okay all right if there are none i'll make a motion to accept the minutes from june 3rd i'll make that motion shoelace okay all right uh all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed all right the minutes from june 3rd are approved okay moving on to new business our first item up today is public hearing for rezoning preliminary plat and planned unit development for bon blericom and schober properties amberly and bellwether and i'm sure we have a nice staff report well you have the staff report in your packet but i'll run through a couple of the highlights the the property is west of the existing bellwether development it's guided low density residential and currently the showbir property zoned planned unit development that was done as part of a previous phase of bellwether planning for future development and the van blair com properties currently zoned rsf2 single family residential the project includes a total of 192 new homes on 77 acres 116 of those homes would be added to the bellwether development and 76 lots would be amberly which is a separate single family neighborhood the concept plan was reviewed by the council on january 28th and the council generally supported the concept in principle of course pending final details parks and trails reviewed the plan at their april excuse me at their may 20th meeting and recommended approval with some changes which were noted in your staff report and then at the june meeting we did table this item to give the applicant additional time to work through some infrastructure issues this was part of a discussion at last week's council meeting as well so we are now moving forward with the public hearing on the project so you can see the showber property is the outlined blue on the kind of the right side of the screen and then van blair com is outlined in blue on the left so they're separated by a chunk of bellwether but they're being processed as a single application this evening uh the proposal like i said is uh to rezone the property to pud the van blair comb property the sherbert schober property is already zoned pud and in the staff report i went through the the findings required to rezone to pud staff finds that the pud standards have generally been met to allow the single family development and i'll talk more about some of the specifics when we review the pud development itself if the rezoning to pud is approved the rezoning would be approved tonight but wouldn't become effective until the final pud development plan is approved that's where ordinance is written so this is from their concept plan and i like it because the green areas are the portions of this project that are being proposed as bellwether lots meaning part of the bellwether homeowners association and in the northwest corner the light yellow lots are the single family home lots that are not part of bellwether they're proposed as part of amberly and again this is from the concept so you note the streets don't exactly align like they do in your final plan but it's helpful to see the context of this project near steeg road and within the context of bell weather the eastern 116 homes will be part of bellwether which is for active seniors 55 plus they will have access to the amenity center that was built as part of bellwether and the lot standards proposed for this phase are the same as those proposed in bellwether the western 76 homes in the amberly subdivision will be single-family homes they will not have access to the bellwether amenities center they're not part of that hoa there's no street connection to bellwether to better separate the two neighborhoods but there are sidewalk and trail connections between the neighborhoods because there's a huge park that is surrounded by bellwether the amberly development is currently zoned rsf2 the pud that they're requesting would be to allow it to develop with rsf3 standards that's a different single family zoning district and it is consistent with those standards with one exception our code says 15 feet between buildings a 5 foot setback on the garage side and a 10 foot setback on the living side they're just proposing to simplify that to the seven and a half foot setback still 15 feet between buildings the flexibility requested beyond that change to how we measure the 15 foot setback for the bellwether lots they are asking for the same garage flexibility that we granted them in bellwether for the 44 foot and 60 foot wide lots on those lots the homes would exceed that 55 percent garage phase the 50 foot lots in bellwether oddly and the lots in amberly though do comply with our design guidelines limiting garages to that 55 percent they are also requesting some flexibility from our standard that requires equal architectural treatment on elevations facing streets or parks specifically requesting flexibility along stig road the council did grant flexibility for the other the existing bellwether portion provided there was some additional landscaping and a increased setback of additional five feet and that is what's proposed for the bellwether and amberly portions here so in this image i need to get pointer i'm not used to the new system my mouse doesn't point but the red dots are the lots along stig road where they would like some flexibility on the architectural standards our standards say any elevation that faces any street or any park is required to meet the design criteria of a front yard which is three materials some percentage requirements in bellwether we did allow some reduction in that architecture because of the amount of landscaping along stig wrote the council felt that it would not be as visible along those rear elevations so the red dots are the ones where they're requesting flexibility the green dots are the ones where they're generally up abutting the park and they are complying with the multiple frontage requirements so about half of the lots would be requesting half of the lots that have double frontage would be requesting some flexibility the as i mentioned there are a lot of home elevations available and so copies of these are available at city hall but i just clipped some of the different images these are some of the examples of homes that would be available in the single family amberly development um we do not have details on the side elevations or percentages of the architecture generally they seem to comply the one in the upper left we'll need to have two different colors of lap siding in order to comply with our three material requirement the one in the bottom left has lap siding and bad gordon batten and some stones so they may comply we have to check the percentages the upper right would comply again the lower or the middle one on the right again we'll have to work with them for those two lower ones on the right to make sure the variety that's required by the code or met but generally i think that it's doable these are examples of the homes that would be built in the bellwether component a similar product it's the same product that's in bellwether today and so we have worked with them in bellwether to establish the standards for what is required in that and so while these look very plain on this image we do have standards to ensure that they do comply with our architectural elevation requirements utilities to serve this site we do have municipal sanitary sewer that will extend from the existing bellwether neighborhood to serve this phase and as the planning commission is aware we purchase water from maple grove we are in the process of doing some water planning for northeast corcoran we've purchased agreement for the lother property for a new well site but in the interim this site will be required to connect to the city of maple grove and we do an agreement from maple grove to provide water to serve this development when our city of corcoran water becomes available then they would be required to connect to our water system and depending on council work you know that might tie in early enough that they'd be able to connect without first connecting to maple grove but if they need to do that that's available we do have an agreement for the lother property as a well site but as part of this project polti would also provide land for a water tower in the park and land for a potential well in the park those are both search areas we haven't determined exactly whether that's the best spot to put them but we are working with them to provide that land should it be needed transportation improvements were identified in the feasibility study along stig road and county road 116 and the applicant's plan do do show all of those off-road improvements within the project we've got standard 50 and 60 foot wide right-of-way but the plans today do show what the feasibility requires which is where the pavement stops today at the edge of this property it will be extended out to 116 in the same design manner that three lane road and then the county would require turn lanes on county road 116. storm water will be managed on site we know storm water is always a challenge all storm water management must comply with city watershed and state storm water management rules and so we still are at the preliminary stage and are working through that but we will continue to review that with them in addition to managing the storm water on site as we've done with other significant projects of this size the engineers requesting a hundred thousand dollar contribution for future off-site water improvements the wetland delineation was completed and so that is reflected in the plans we did note a couple of areas where the trail is inside the buffer and that needs to be shifted so there's a couple areas where there may be a trail easement needed in the backyards of a couple of the homes in the amberly portion of the development and then we'll make sure that all the wetland buffer monument signs are appropriately located there is a little bit of wetland on this property and as we've done for our other projects with wetlands or excuse me floodplain it will require a letter of map revision that's a fema process once development is complete we would do a letter of map revision and that's coordinated through our city engineer parks and trails as i mentioned there is a park park dedication component to complete another portion of the city park if you recall there's a large open space park that was partially deeded with phase one of bellwether and then a portion of park that was dedicated with bellwether fifth and now we'll be getting another chunk adjacent to that parkland and you can see on the left that was the original concept for the land dedication and so the dedication shown with this this plan is consistent with what we originally asked for there is a little bit of parkland proposed down on that far south west corner of the site that's separated from the rest of the park the parks commission does not want that land we won't take that and give credit for that but generally consistent you can see in here the water tower and the well site so parks commission does want to make sure that the trail will connect both developments up to steegross so it will connect between the bellwether portion and the amberly portion and connect to the trail along steegroad and the trail alignment is one of the alignments being considered for the three rivers diamond lake regional trail in their search area they haven't determined that exactly yet but this could serve as part of that regional trail corridor and they've reviewed and commented on this that they are still looking to determine that final alignment but this would be consistent with their plan the way our ordinance is written the developer must build the trails they do so at their own cost for the base of the trails and then we do reimburse them for the cost of paving only there is a segment of sidewalk that isn't connecting from the northern portion of bellwether and that needs to make a connection down to the park so those are a couple of the things parks looked at they also said the applicant needs to ensure that there's enough room for a parking lot so we're looking for about a 15 to 20 stall parking lot here this is a neighborhood park this portion that's being dedicated now but it does connect to that community park to the south that larger open space park so while certainly people in the neighborhood will use the park this is open to the whole community so we want to make sure there's a parking lot that's available for folks to use the parkland the well site which is shown kind of by that wetland we uh engineering would like that shifted nearer to the street so it's easier for maintenance purposes and then i just want to note because we get calls about this a lot the city will design the park what they've got on this plan is something to see if it's big enough but we have not committed to a dog park here and in fact the parks commission so far has not been excited about that idea but there's a lot of conversation about what this park will be when we're ready to develop it the city's policy is usually for the parks commission to work with the neighborhood to decide uh what's appropriate in the park so again the city will design that at a future date but with the comments from the parks commission dedication would be a combination of land and cash and so as they work through some of these shifts in the facilities in here the parking lot the well the water tower the park land might grow a little bit to accommodate everything that's needed so the preliminary plaque is just creating the parcels and that's 192 lots and five outlets it's dedication of approximately seven acres of park land which includes land for the well and the water tower the image here is the land that's to be dedicated uh at least most of it is the land that's dedicated as amberly and then these two slides show basically the two chunks that get dedicated as part of bellwether staff finds that the proposed development is consistent with the anticipated low-density residential land use in fact right now they're on the low end they're not quite at three units an acre pud flexibility is requested for the bellwether lots in a manner consistent with the previous bellwether approvals the pud flexibility for amberly is really that architectural flexibility adjacent to speed consistent with bell weather and then that seven and a half foot step back to create a 15 foot separation rather than 10 and 5. in exchange the developer will provide significant off-site improvements land for a city well site land for city water tower beyond the park dedication that's required so that's a summary of a significant staff report mr chair our recommendation is that you open the public hearing and take comments i would note there were two emails that were received before the packet went out so they were included in the packet after the packet went out you received a revised email from the white heads and a new email from zappas and those were emailed to you so those four items are entered into the record as if they were read this evening so for those speakers you don't need to read your letter you can summarize it if you wish to speak to that the commission did receive them and are entered into the record as anything else that's spoken tonight and staff does recommend approval of the the four items rezoning to pud the findings of fact the preliminary pud development plan and the preliminary plot and mr chair before we open the public hearing i'd be happy to answer any questions kendrick can you go back to that park slide a few slides back and i you know i i can't decipher exactly where this well site is the well side i mean yep right here the circle and this little square it is a little bit faded on this image so the um the circle's the tower the circle on there is the well and i don't have a pointer so you can see the circle just north of the wetland south of that trail that circle is the well and then just to the right there's a little box okay it's the water tower okay so and it's not a physical structure the well isn't that big but that's the wealth site generally and is this so my understanding was wasn't the wasn't there a well that's going to go right off of 116. so is this another well in addition to that one right okay and this tower would be used for both welts yeah so we've got a couple of search sites this is one there's another on the oswald property down on 30. yeah and so we just want to take this we're not committed to this being there for sure yet okay but we want to take the land because we we have the opportunity and protect that land and if we don't need it for the water tower site and choose to put it on the oswald farm site um this could just be parkland okay and so the well has already been proofed yeah i mean i think it's a search it's an acceptable site for engineering has identified that as a site okay right that's that was all i needed to clarify any other comments or questions before we open up the public hearing yes sir mr chair thank you um kendra just did the city council of mayor put in the moratorium for no more development until we work out the water in the sewer and those kind of things and this is one of those properties that still fit into buying water and and waste disposable through maple grove right now i mean if we don't have city water city sewer these properties are still okay to continue or to start up and go yes there aren't any new development correct right mr chair commissioners that's correct uh we actually have two items on our agenda tonight that are in northeast corcoran this is one of them and we did in your packet i think there's a note about it maybe i think in the council summary the council adopted a moratorium for northeast corcoran while we worked through our water supply issues and we've applied for a grant to update our northeast district design guidelines so we have a moratorium in place that could be up to a year and this property was already an application that was submitted so we have to continue to process that so that's exempted and then the gordon's country estate item that's later it was also in there and so they're exempted from work in the moratorium but any other property in northeast corcoran needs to wait um for a development proposal until the moratorium is over and we've completed our studies until we've solved the water and disposal correct thank you that's i just wanted to make sure thanks good question thank you anybody else all right let's move to open up our public hearing for those that would like to speak again raise your hand take the podium state your name and your address for the record mr chair do would you like the applicant to do his presentation first before the public hearing or after um you know i suppose we could take it now is the applicant here good evening my name is paul hoyer homes 7500 flying cloud drive suite 670 eden prairie minnesota 55345. it's good to be here this evening it's been three years since i've been for you i see a couple of faces that are recognizable and a few new ones um i've got a short presentation it's aimed at not covering the same ground that kendra uh covered and my goal was to answer different questions that may be in your minds with me this evening i've got dean lotter from our office we have the primary property owner larry ben blair khan jeff the caesar the broker for the property and uh hopefully on our zoom caller is our engineer eric johnson so if there's any questions we have a team here that can answer those questions go ahead go ahead again so let's uh start with the background here again um kendra covered most of this the key point here is we're really just we always plan to develop these two properties in conjunction with bellwether they were basically two holes that were missing from the original application and the goal here with this application is to fill those two holes a lot of work went in to creating bellwether it was the first development in northeast corkland so it involved quite a bit and we had a nice public private partnership to extend the trunk sewer to this area it also included kind of the beginnings of creating your park district in this area so we started dedicating some open space with woods and also some parks and also the trail system associated with that and we started reconstructing portions of steed roads so the original 2018 bellwether approval involved reconstructing 45 percent of steve road and actually realigning it and adding turn lanes on 101 so a lot went into bellwether to really get us to this point that we're at today and it also helped fund the future city water system next you know let's keep going kendra had that one so a little bit about the background the application before you covers both a single family neighborhood and the bellwether extension i think you're pretty familiar with single-family neighborhoods so i'm focusing the rest of my presentation on what really is a del webb neighborhood what does it involve and why is it different go ahead it started in 1960 sun city in arizona was the first age-restricted neighborhood in the country and it was a del webb neighborhood i still can't get past this they had over 100 000 people touring the community over a three-day period it was that popular when it opened and it continued on there are over 100 neighborhoods across the country that are considered del webb many of them have the sun city name or anthem might be another name that you're familiar with and they go by many other names as well so pulte group purchased dell webb in 2001 it was a very iconic popular brand and we were very intent on keeping the same design standards so that that brand would not be diluted in fact we've been trying to find the right property in the twin cities for these 20 30 years and this was the first one in the twin cities that we felt passed all the tests to be a a del webb neighborhood so what makes a dell webb neighborhood different and here's a list of things that really separate what it consists of it is age restricted and the location is also something that is really closely looked at it has to be within a certain minute drive of hospitals the airport and a variety of other amenities so there's a lot that goes into the location of a del webb neighborhood the size too since there are a lot of amenities the size has to be large enough to be able to support that kind of cost the design of the neighborhood is also a critical factor there's a number of really key a beautiful design standards that lead it to look the way it is and overall we're really shooting for a resort-like feeling with a lot of beauty at the bottom of the page here a facilitated lifestyle which we'll get into is really a key component also of the del webb neighborhood and of course the homes which are really aimed at the 55 and older crop a little bit about the age restricted portion what that means is one of the buyers of a home has to be 55 or older the other one can be younger there's also some restrictions on how long children can live in the neighborhood the goal is to welcome the children but on a visiting type basis go ahead as i mentioned the size of the neighborhood is really a big thing um in other markets across the country it's not uncommon to have deal with communities consist of thousands or tens of thousands of homes in the twin cities we do have a growth boundary which is a little bit unusual there's not that many markets across the country that have a growth boundary so that makes it difficult to find enough land to actually create the del webb neighborhood the minimum dell web size is about 300 homes and if this application before you was approved by the city council and that would mean bellwether will be 514 homes the arrival drive is really a key iconic component of how we design a del webb neighborhood what it really means is there's a parkway with no driveways on it a lot of landscaping some open space with view corridors really creating that feeling of some luxury and beauty and it always leads directly to the community and goes by different names the clubhouse whatever go ahead this is a graphic showing the amenities that we created for um dell uh bellwether it's a 12 000 square foot building go ahead and let's get into the facilitated active lifestyle what really separates del webb from a home somewhere or even a neighborhood that we create is it's creating a lifestyle and what that means is there's actually a facilitated lifestyle director and that person's job is to keep everybody busy they organize everything from events clubs different activities tours you know bands at the clubhouse every friday night just a variety of things to keep people busy keep people active this is really called an active adult neighborhood no need to spend a lot of time on this but we've got three slides that show the different sizes homes sometimes we have widows or single people so we have smaller homes quite a variety of options available for these folks and the prices are from the mid 300s to i say 600 in that last one but i'm seeing before i came here tonight there's many people that are buying options to get in the 700 thousands too so quite a big range of values of these homes that people are purchasing and a big part of what people enjoy about living in a del webb neighborhood is the homeowners association it not only takes care of the facilitator and the amenities but also the snow and moe as we call it removing snow right up to your front door taking care of the lawns and that's very attractive a lot of folks who reach 55 go ahead and here's a list of reasons what we reasons we hear from our buyers that make dell webb so popular the beauty the resort-like atmosphere is definitely part of it the amenities which are always top-notch and beyond what you typically see in a neighborhood and some people like to be surrounded by people of similar age there's a lot of social activities some people when they reach this part of their life they're looking for more activities some to stay healthy and some social there's also a sense of security in being in a neighborhood like this for a variety of reasons some is because you're around a number of people your age some of it is because there's people living there all the time because a fair number of folks are retired so it feels more secure and some of it is some of the design attributes that we create in making the neighborhood feel safe with having some defensible space especially especially around some of the perimeter of the sites and of course people enjoy the homeowners association maintenance and the facilitated active lifestyle go ahead community benefits um we oftentimes get calls from cities asking if we could build a del webb neighborhood in their home and the reasons are is a lot of their people are looking for housing like this and there really is a shortage around the twin cities and in fact across the country for 55 plus homes and neighborhoods it's also a chance for cities to retain their current residence oftentimes they have to leave the city that they want to stay in with their church and their friends to find the kind of home that they're looking for also these folks have saved money all their life they have some disposable income so they're really good for the local businesses it's a dramatically reduced peak traffic flows because the percentage of these folks are retired so you have a lot less traffic especially during the peak morning and peak evening rush hours and these are the people who are volunteering more than the younger folks so that too makes it very desirable and just quickly a little bit about bellwether we started development activities in 2018 we started selling homes in 2019 we had an interest list of 2 600 people when we started selling homes and this expansion was planned for to the extent that even when we looked at designing our amenities we made sure that we accounted for these properties and these homes to be included in that amenity so there are no plans to expand our amenities it was designed to handle these homes and this is just a little bit about the amenity that's there just to give you a feel for it there's a fitness center a craft room a ballroom uh a lounge that gets used daily by a lot of folks that just come down there and meet those are really inside they've got the the kitchen of course as well go ahead and outdoors pickleball courts bocce ball courts fire pit tiki bar outdoor pool there is an indoor pool we added in this as well and some private areas outside where you can have small parties and things like that so really quite a variety of things just to make it a a a beautiful place to hang out with a lot of activities to do and here are just some photos of the inside of the uh we call a pretty prairie club at bellwether that you can flip through here and i hope that gives you a taste of what a del webb neighborhood is as i said across the country these are typically much larger so the amenity packages might be much larger buildings or multiple buildings across the neighborhood sometimes there's golf clubs but this is uh designed to be for about a 500 home neighborhood so the amenities we chose fit right in the in the graphs and charts of what dell webb himself would want with one exception over the years we've always had tennis courts tennis courts have gone downhill a bit over the decades and i hate to say that because i play tennis once a week but those have been replaced by pickleball courts so you'll see we've got six pickleball clubs here i'd be happy to answer any questions you might have thank you you said that the average development was 300 homes no that's the smallest oh the smallest yes okay that was there's like contradictions going all over the place i couldn't understand i could only guess yeah it's probably uh you know two three four thousand homes i'm guessing really nationwide okay all right and and the golf courses i would assume are probably more towards um year-round climates you know things like that yeah yeah makes sense anybody questions or we might have i have a question um thank you for that presentation it was it was well put together um ordinarily i i believe and i'm new to this panel but ordinarily it's my understanding that this panel is asked to evaluate projects not the applicants but since you mentioned the company i think you know would you mind if i ask you a question or two about your company sure i'll do my best so you mentioned that your company started in arizona did i understand that correctly the company that pulte group bought was named del webb and del webb started in arizona that's correct okay i was in the arizona small world i was in arizona on friday and i read an article about a 800 member class action lawsuit against polti and i'm wondering because they were alleging poor workmanship and i'm wondering if that case has been resolved yet or not i have not even heard of that case okay thank you what i could do is share a lot of information with you about our quality control and um we've been rated very highly in twin cities okay could could i ask you to to look into one more thing for me certainly i know that there's also been a number of lawsuits filed here in minnesota would you mind providing me with some additional information about those cases involving polti yes i don't think there's hardly any but i'd be happy to provide them yeah a quick google search will pull that up so if if you don't mind you know again ordinarily i think our role is to focus on the on the project at hand but since you brought up the company background i i just have these questions so if you if you wouldn't mind i'd greatly appreciate that keep in mind that cruelty group is a large company we build tens of thousands of homes a year um the percentage of lawsuits we have compared to others i would bet it would be similar or less thank you just for background um mr landmark i i also raised the same issue when they first did this i had looked up internet stuff and i there there seemed to be you know some questions around the country you know they weren't built here yet but they were i i noticed the same kind of thing that there were a lot of things but i you know what builder doesn't get complaints about some of their quality here you know some people just have some really high standards some are really systemic um i didn't get the impression it was systemic uh with pulte but it was noted earlier in our discussions i get that i think that our role is to also look out for the best interests of the citizens of the city and when i read about an 800 member class action lawsuit against an applicant that's before this panel i i just want to learn more so thank you good question good question mr chair if i may um i'm going to go a little different direction paul i we are all volunteers on this commission and we're all residents of of the of the great city i'm going to say of corcoran um and i mean that sincerely i've been with in the city for 14 years and love this place i came from maple grove and got pushed out into the country because of the development and the rolling houses that started coming my way my question is when we get things that are close to bellwether the developments our plans have been in place for a long time as far as what's going along the highway 101 corridor and they're asking wait a minute we don't want this along that corridor why are we putting industrial parks why are we doing these things what is polti bellwether what are you guys doing to inform the people that live in your communities that at the intersection of i'm trying to think is it shutting 101 that's a commercial property is that right steve excuse me stegan 101 that's commercial property what do residents know about that in your community because it has been planned for a long time and i'm getting really tired of people telling me we didn't know that and when we've been talked to in this group and in past planning commissions polti or other developers have said we are we have maps of what's going on or general maps related to our comp plans and stuff of what's going around and we continually get people saying we don't want that here um this the the repair shop that is going in on the industrial park across from the koa um it's all in the plans it's all this and everybody's saying we don't want that there we don't want this to happen 101 isn't going to be that big a road we all know i know from 34 years in this general vicinity that 101 is going to become a whole different road 610 is absolutely going to come across or some variation is going to come across to 101. what do your residents know about what's going to happen in the future around their communities we've got people here that are owning 5 10 acres and even more around these communities saying when's it going to stop well to those people i'm telling those people tonight too that this has all been planned for the last 20 30 years and we have to update our comp plan every 10 years to the met council about our plans and stuff and the eastern third of corcoran is going to be developed between now and 2024. excuse me 2040 is the eastern third of corcoran is going to be developed there's plans there's all of these things pud all of all of our what do i want to say all of our acronyms about anything non-standard as far as our ordinances and going properties and stuff what is being done to let your residents know what's going on what's being done to let the residents that are around you we've got people submitting us emails related to wetland changes related to roads that they live on and construction traffic is coming down their roads and they're not being followed as far as being good neighbors from polti or other developers anybody's going down any gravel road here and it's just beating the roads up and stuff what is being done to be a better informant or better planner as far as telling people who's coming into these developments as far as what's going on around them they aren't going to be cornfields forever and i'm sorry they just aren't i i'm not going to stand in the way of those people that own those properties and stuff and then again commercial property right there on the corner of of stig i want to say streeler stegen 101 the whole industrial i'm going to call it parkway along 101 for a thousand feet that far west of 101. that's all industrial all the way up to dayton i just the plan is there and people are being surprised and we're being told that the developers are letting people know that the comp plans are out there they can ask questions and those kind of things but it always seems to be a surprise when people come i'm sorry it took me so long to get that off thanks for your patience not a problem commissioner um i'll hit him one at a time here regarding our buyers we have a disclosure statement that is intended to list all of the things that could be objections and sometimes that's as simple as a heavily traveled road nearby or a farm field that sometimes you might smell fertilizer things like that right this is the appropriate place to have things like properties adjacent to you may develop and they may be a commercial or industrial use i don't have one with me at the moment but i'd be happy to take dean would be happy to take a note right now to have us send a disclosure statement to you so you can see exactly what we're telling our buyers i believe you're doing that they aren't reading them they aren't paying attention they're being ignored i don't know what the reason is but i really do believe that we need all of our all of our friends in the development community to really make people understand that it's going to change we understand this kind of problem we require our buyers to sign something saying they have read the disclosure statement before we close with them so we are doing what we can okay um what we can check is to make sure that the wording is detailed enough so that this is always difficult because you want to have it broad enough to cover changes that you folks might make in your zoning or land use guidance but we want it to be as detailed enough so that we give people a flavor for what could happen and that's kind of a fine line to walk but um that's what we do and again the mr chair the if i model line here the biggest thing that changes is when people come to us for a conditional use permit or a plan unit development that's the change from the zoning that happens and that's a give or take give and take thing between the city property owners the developers and stuff that has happened in my experience when i was in maple grove for 20 years i was part of the planning commission i've seen it over the last now 34 years but there's some people that just aren't reading it aren't saying it and i understand they're going to come i just i want there's a lot of people here that are going to be frustrated tonight and are going to speak their piece and such which i believe in but our comp plan hasn't changed much it's just the thing that really riles people up is puds continually come to us conditional use permits continually come to us and we've all said it would be nice to see some things come without all of these things this thing that's coming in front of us tonight it fits what bellwether's doing it fits del webb it fits what's been going in around there and thank you very much for working on the park water tower and in a possible well area and stuff thanks for working with us i just i'd like to get the public to be more informed um and not come in here and say nobody told me no one's contacted me nothing has happened and on our city side we on our websites facebook everything we're telling people everything that's going on and stuff but there's still people that just aren't reading things so a little bit of frustration on my part but thank you very much for what you're doing i believe you're doing it just i don't know how you can do it any different thanks thanks mr chair okay thank you um one quick question uh so as i'm looking at the preliminary site plans okay um so over here it says phase three there's 3744 lots are these supposed to be 44 is that a typo or that's a typo we have no lots that are 40-foot we have 44 at the memo okay and then um over then on the other one phase two it also says 17 40 foot lots that's also yeah i have no 40 foot lots okay i just wanted to talk about it thank you yep um are there any other questions otherwise it might be that we'll have some uh for you later all right thank you very much appreciate it okay um let's open up the public hearing again for those that would like to make comments please address the podium name address and keep them if you could try to keep them limited to five minutes yes we have cards that we'll call people are you lynn okay that's probably your name all right good guess uh um um thank you yeah um is there a plan to put in place some sort of privacy so that you know maybe you guys are protected from us as an eyesore and we're protected from you guys as an eyesore then if you're going to address the commission oh yeah yeah commission thank you yes i'm sorry i've never done this before that's okay that's okay um now for these um our our professional staff is taking uh some of your comments and the way we have done this in the past then is once we get through the public hearing then we'll if they can to the extent that they have the information to address those concerns or those questions we'll try to answer them here on the spot tonight for anything that can't there will be a follow-up with you or we might give you some alternatives for some other folks to address those concerns with but know that we're hearing it it's being recorded and to the extent we can well i you know lynn i also like you lived out here you know 25 years overlooked beautiful countryside and while i'm on the other side of the musa right now i'm just on the other side but i you know in conversations that we that we have with other folks you know there's this desire and and outspoken support for the city to keep its rural you know character okay if there would be some privacy you know some sort of troops or something that would be a buffer between will the speed limit be the same matt doucher you know that is that's not part of our that's not part of our poc our packet and since that's a public safety issue i there's no way i could answer that for you i i would hope you know if it's too fast maybe it should be slowed down but as that road improves you're talking about stig road right yeah yeah i i think that would have to be a question for uh mr matson okay anything else all right thank you next next we have sarah presting thank you mr chair um i think my question was answered in the presentation because the maps were much name and address please share pressing 21955 oakdale drive we've had the property for a year we're building on it right now so i'm not living there but we own it my question i think was answered with the better maps that i could see but on page 56 out of the 284 pages of the minute meeting minutes it seemed to show that on those small broken down maps that part of this was going to be north of 30 and west of cane and that didn't fit with anything else that was talked about or shown in other maps so i'm wondering if that was a mistake and i'm guessing i'm guessing it is because it doesn't relate at all in the location to what was shown tonight or talked about so i think my question was answered that that is was a mistake maybe it was on one of the preliminary site plans their little location map in the top right corner i don't have page numbers right now they want to make it numbered it was just my computer set up i'll be happy to thank you oh and then next we have ron zappa mr chair uh fellow commissioners um i just wanted to add it yeah oh name and address in corporate minnesota um i just i wasn't planning on talking uh concerning this issue however i uh i think i'm in a unique position that i happen to be an owner in mesquite nevada in the sun city del webb community there we purchased a still home there approximately 11 years ago we have now approximately 2 000 homes in the area and at the time of sale in my estimation the sales people in polti were very upfront in disclosing information like i have the world's long drive uh park right behind my house essentially all of that was disclosed and i think for the most part uh as far as a builder goes they are probably one of the better more respected communities here so i just wanted to verify um basically everything that they've said i as a member of corcoran here uh really take that to heart thank you thank you very much it's good to hear good to hear and then anyone joining us from home if you'd like to participate in public hearing please raise your hand if you're calling by phone that be star 9 or if you're on your computer you should be able to access the raise your hand function via the reactions menu on the bottom of your screen and possibly through your participants tab if you're on a mobile device mr chair currently no one is raising their hand on zoom okay is there anybody else in our audience tonight yes please do grab the microphone it's not picking you up i'm kaylee smith and i live at 105.45 robert lane i mean the part it was a quiet road but because of sea robert lane has taken a lot of that traffic for pulping homes too and i don't mind that you're putting quality homes in i understand development too and nobody's going to tell a property owner they shouldn't develop their property that's why people buy property however i believe that the honorable commissioners here should really take a hard look at the people that are already here too because your job i would think would be charged with not just is this development a good development a bad development you know all the little plus and minuses in the checkbox but it should be how does this impact everybody else who already has a stake in the game and i'm one of those people that has a stake in the game and i've watched belly dumps i've watched um major construct i can't even describe i always call my husband and say i saw this vehicle going down robert lane what is it because it's this huge monstrosity and it's i mean we're just a little road and when i mow my lawn i've mentioned this at the very first meeting that full people when they first made the del webb proposal was that i'm in fear for my life to mow my lawn and my rider because those vehicles come ripping down steed and ripping down robert lane and it's a problem the thing i the only thing i have with pokey homes is why i have two one is that when at the first meeting they said they were going and they showed the beautiful pictures and that's all well and good we had it we had something and i don't understand the city stuff so you guys will have to help me here but there was something about multiple um fronts on the building so that they have a certain look and they got a variance from that because they said people would want to decorate their hands anyways so they look lovely in my opinion and this is my opinion this is not maybe the rest of the group the current development looks like a compound and it there's not that variety there's i mean the the houses are strategically put in certain places and yeah i i don't think it's an asset to corsa to portman to have a development that looks like a compound um like post world war ii housing but maybe maybe that's maybe that's just my opinion but when i was i want to back up i got off on a tangent but when i was talking about traffic and on the road and steve wrote what really bothered me is sometimes i drive through homes because i want to see it i want to see what it looks like because your residence i will tell you that i will say this the residents of polti homes are bar none the nicest people on the planet they're always friendly and you know they they see me and think i'm one of the residents because i'm old but i when i draw a stroke through i saw signs that said they were routing all the traffic onto steed if they were if they were um there to do construction work don't come in with their residence come over on the state where the people of corporate have to tolerate it the people that are already there and that kind of hurts me they have signs right in the front like if you're if you're our contractor go over this the steve side and i don't think that's the why are their roads pristine and our roads torn up the people that have already paid taxes and lived here it just there's so many little things like that that and i don't want to be anti-culty homes because i'm sure that for the people that the nice people that live there they're providing the service so i'm not i don't want to say it that way but something and i believe a planning commission is charged with looking at traffic flow looking at impact in neighborhoods when you approve these developments because steve is a nightmare at times of day and people fly down the road they speed if i would have seen what steed was going to look like when i bought my property i probably would have not invested in portland and i love corporate this has been my home for decades so i just think that that needs to be considered like the other nice residents that the people with the cow which you know you get you should charge admission because they come down to see that cow um yeah so um i don't know that you know and i would like i would like full demons to tell me where are these fabulous trails because at the first meeting they said all apartment could use the trails and could um you know participate with del webb because it would be part of corporate i haven't seen any major trails and i go in there all the time and i haven't seen i've only seen one big open area i've seen the clubhouse for the people who live there but i've seen one grassland open area where people throw balls for their dogs i have i if the parks are in there i missed them and i really would like to see those too thank you okay thank you i don't have anyone online raising your hand here okay all right anyone else going once going twice all right at this point i suggest that we close the public hearing do i have a motion so move all right all those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye aye opposed all right the public hearing is now closed thank you everybody for your participation all right we will move on to uh commission discussion and questions um and recommendations uh so now of course as you all know over the course of our zoom meetings we went one by one and and commanded the floor and then we would go around a second time for follow-up so would anybody like to start off i'll start okay mr lantern you have the floor uh i have issues with the pud standards just generally and conceptually where flexibility is granted and let's face it flexibility is really just another name for skirting the city code where flexibility is granted in exchange for certain benefits for the city and here those benefits aren't really benefits for the city at all the staff report says that and i'm i'm quoting here the development is not in oh let me get to the relevant part in exchange for this flexibility the developer will provide both internal infrastructure needed to support their development land for the city well and water tower sites park land off-site improvements too and how do you how do you pronounce the name of the road stig stadium thank you i should know that off-site improvements on stieg road turn lane improvements on county road 116 and trunk infrastructure improvements that will serve a larger development area okay may i just interrupt you just for a second what what part of the report were you reading from uh page four paragraph three sorry um most of these benefits are not really for the city but for the builders customers in other words these build these benefits as articulated are really things that the applicant should be doing anyway the only benefit to the city is the parkland dedication and here i understand that even those minimums cannot be met so there is the additional cash payment which is nearly a quarter of a million dollars so uh just for the just for my benefit because i'm i'm new here what's being done what's you know what's going to be done with that money and you know i suppose i'm just trying to figure out whether the city is better better served by enforcing the minimums or if the cash payment can actually be put to good use my second issue is um and i'm sorry i don't have the page site but from the staff report section 1060.060 subdivision 5 of the zoning ordinance requires that the driveway be at least 22 feet in length between the front of the garage and the street roadway or sidewalk and quote not impede pedestrian or traffic circulation or access to any other dwelling unit nor shall it adversely affect the ability to provide public utilities or public safety now it's not clear from the plans provided by the applicant if the driveways comply with this requirement i see that this has been covered in the proposed resolution but is there any additional detail has been provided on this since the staff report thank you thank you kendall um natalie yeah i mean i i think certainly uh the pud the city has a lot of discretion on and in the past we have said that regional infrastructure that does not simply serve this development is a pud benefit the commission could have a different opinion and this council could have a different opinion but that is your role to review those and see if you uh do believe that we're getting beauty benefits no developer is required to provide a water tower or a well for their site but they do have to provide some infrastructure improvements in terms of park dedication i think that's a great question we only want to take the land we want we don't want to take 20 acres of land if we don't have a plan for a 20-acre park so we have the flexibility under the statutes to take the land we want and when we don't take the cash which allows us to acquire trails and parks and locations where a developer might own a piece of land and be required only to dedicate five acres of parkland and making this up and we might say you know what we really want 10 and so we're going to buy five acres using that cash from that park dedication pool we also use those funds to as i mentioned when the developer comes in they have to do the base for the trail but we reimburse them for paving and so some of that fund is used for that it's not used to do park improvements that comes from a different source you can't use those park dedication funds for that it's really for acquisition of park land so it is important for the city to take not only the land where we want it as identified on the comprehensive plan but to also take cash and then the third question or comment about the driveway length we have not received anything since the uh packet went out and we would expect to see that detail with the final pud plan if it proceeds forward regarding the driver could i ask a follow-up question kendra um i think i heard earlier that there's also a second site being considered for the water tower correct correct okay so this land may not even be or this water tower may not even be part of the benefit to the city from this project correct the actual water tower will not i think public works would say though having the land as an option is valuable okay thank you all right um meredith would you like to take the floor please uh kendra i had a concern about the 15 to i'm looking at the park shape the area and um looking at a 15 to 20 stall parking lot with the required drive aisles and that one would need and i'm just wondering how it kind of it's going to fit there and that's probably because i do plan parking and they always take up more than you think and so i'm wondering just i'm looking at that and wondering how it's going to fit and and also for the residents that live around me how will they feel about having a parking lot around them i know that we require plantings and buffer paintings but still we have a parking lot next to you and do future residents know that they could potentially have a water tower and then it's a tall item they might have a feeling about a water tower that another resident may have a different thing about so is that disclosed to them um another question i had was about the um variants being sought for the properties that are backing up to steve road and i'm looking at the landscape plan and i don't recall the amount of landscaping that was done in the previous phases where that variance was granted but wondering if on the landscape plan that amount of planting is equal to what previously earned the approval of the variant again i don't remember it but i'm looking at it and saying are we getting they're asking for something that was provided previously are we getting the same return there in terms of increased and now i can't find the sheet but it's in here somewhere and i might have missed it but i was looking at it and i think you probably know which landscape plan it's on it was color coded and shape coated that was my questions thank you so mr chair uh meredith commissioner wu is absolutely right i think it's important that they lay out that parking lot in the park and we use that to determine whether we have enough land for the park that was the discussion at the parks and trails commission is we do need a parking lot here and we want to make sure that it fits in there and you know i i have a park near my house where the parking lot does kind of tuck behind the homes um and people need to be aware of that and make a decision that's where they want to live so we want to see that and bring that back to the parks commission before we determine that it is enough land for that park that it's well located again we want to make sure there's a way to fit it in there and still fit the water tower the well which we want that to move and the facilities that are part of a park which in this neighborhood might be a little bit different than what's in um ravinia for example where we have a lot of families but we still want recreational facilities in this park so that's really important and and needs to be further fleshed out with the parks and trails commission um i certainly think that better graphics if this were to go forward to uh disclose to residents the water tower site i think by the time we get to the final pud plan we'll know i think probably whether this is in fact the well and the water tower site or it's still an option but that certainly needs to be better shown on here i created mr chair it's hard to see on the plan and then the architectural standard is really important the number of trees back there is similar it's five to six trees in the backyard of each lot that is what exists for the bellwether lots that granted the flexibility through the pud previously plus that increased setback of five feet so they're shifted houses are shifted back from the road further than there's a than the minimum would be but again uh if you've been out there you can take a look at that and decide if that's warranted and it's not just a blank i want to be clear it's not a blank wall they still have wider trim and some other upgrades but you have to balance whether it's enough and i think everyone follow-up question if they could shadow studies done on we're talking about the tall water tower has them okay um does the city typically do shadow studies with those you know great question i've we've discussed it at the staff level i think it's important i've worked on other projects in other cities that do have water towers and i think it's really important to look at where the shadow is going to fall we have not actually done a shadow study but certainly something that we could take a look at i think where it is located in the park and the layout is probably reasonably well located but i think that's a great that's something you could certainly add as a recommendation the residents complain about subcontractor behavior frequently um trucks trucks clearly associated with construction activities drawing down their streets and i'm wondering um what is the complaint and this is probably not the forum i should possibly contact the city administrator about it but i think that since they are there you can microphone just a little bit closer to you thank you so i think that is there a way that such subcontractors can be spoken to some complaint process be put in place this is more of a statement than a question i haven't made that complaint myself because there hasn't been activity on cane road but we hear it so i'm wondering um what is the process maybe that can be followed up with the residents who are probably seeing that you know that's i that's great uh we didn't really respond to some of the questions from the public hearing but this kind of ties into that which is as part of a development proposal the city engineer determines what street should be used for construction traffic and we do want construction traffic coming on higher volume roads so we have local streets we have collector streets connector streets and arterials and they have different anticipated traffic volumes and steeg is a collector road and it is anticipated to carry higher volumes of traffic than 105th in bellwether for example so the city engineer does as part of the review say which streets construction traffic should come through we want them coming on 101 and stig not on local robert lane for example should not be getting construction traffic and so if you're seeing construction traffic unrelated to your neighbors construction project which there's been a lot of that lately you should contact the city and we can certainly reach out to if we can identify the truck if it's a polti contractor there are tools that they can do we've dealt with that in other projects in raviniya if you've been there they have signage and fining for subcontractors and certainly that's something we could look at but we need to know if there's something happening but it is something we look at and tell them where to go we don't want contractor traffic cutting through any neighborhood whether it's bell weather or rapid lanes so we want them on those collector and arterial roads but if there is a complaint about construction traffic or speed you know you should contact the city the police are the people that can contact without speed there are standards for speed volumes on roads and i don't anticipate the vault traffic the speed limit on stieg is likely to change with the improvements planned for stig but what i would say is the improvements do include two turn lanes into robert lane for example into this development there are improvements that will happen with that which may make the traffic more manageable but if people are speeding we have a police department yeah we don't have a lot of traffic of speed signs in corcoran i don't think we do and i think when we get new people coming in driving these trucks they forget and and i don't think our residents should feel like they're going to be sideswiped down thank you thank you meredith i'm uh i apologize did did you want to address any of the questions that we had during um the first part yeah i think that was the two questions i think that there were some statements but i think there was a question about the speed limit and there was a question about construct sort of a question about construction traffic more of a statement and speeding and i think that wrapped it up so again if there are problems with those contact us at city hall okay all right thank you um commissioner baron camp did you have any comments or questions that you wanted to address i just i go back to everything that i've been through and and where i was and such and i had truly truly understand all of their current residents and such and what you're going through i had the option to move away from the development before it got me but i i really do believe polti is doing what they can to be a good neighbor and i'm sorry using that term but i think it can be better um you've got some folks out here that have a lifestyle that has been a certain way for a long time i we've heard it from the first speaker that she knew something was coming but it would still be nice to not have the construction traffic enter from 116 down steeger out it'd be nice if it could come in at 101 get to the areas it's supposed to and those kind of things and then again my other concern i spoke it very clearly of the current residents of of this area understanding and knowing that the people that own the acreage around them it isn't going to be that way for very long developers come and offer significant amounts of money to do developments and those kind of things and that cow or that naked kid is going to be gone at some point and i make light of it a little bit but i do i think everybody in here understands that this is changing and it's changed and the eastern third of corcoran is changing so um it it it's crazy we can't stop it and uh to the current land owner of this property congrats i know this is a long process and such but we all have rights to do what we can with our property and we have no right to tell other people what they can do or can't do with their property other than our ordinances and those kind of things i'd like i said there's frustration up here about puds and conditional use permits and such so it's it's a long drawn-out thing but i think in the end i think things will come out okay but not everybody's gonna be happy so um nothing more than that um i think we were talking um mark i think you've made the comments as far as everything non-ordinance and a pud is just a way to ask for forgiveness or get around things and such i'm i'm one of the give and take and such i'm one that i appreciate the water tower i appreciate the the um the new well those kind of things i'm still fighting with what do we need a park in here for when this is all a 55 an older community and they've got a clubhouse or whatever i'm i'm just i'm trying to figure that out um and in my mind i would rather see larger lots those kind of things but i do understand what they're doing and it's 55 and older and they're getting away from from having to do their own maintenance those kind of things i understand all of those things i just if we're gonna put a lot in and such the trails that we see in our maps looks like um other neighbors will be able to go that way if i live 10 acres next to it this is the last place i want to go i'll stay on my 10 acres so just speaking frankly and from the heart on my side so i just while i understand it it completes the del webb bellwether location and does all of these things i i'm i've mixed emotions about how close and and how non-open this is and i understand the reason it's all happening but uh my last statement it would be nice if uh polti could become that perfect neighbor during this development and that's helping existing neighbors still have what they have instead of having to deal with the chaos so thank you very much for the time mr chair okay thank you yes sir could i just add a quick comment to commissioner baron camp's comments absolutely thank you yeah i get that you know i'm not anti-development but we have a code you have rules without rules you have chaos without rules you have developers coming in and doing whatever they want yeah so i am all for property rights you own the property you build whatever you want whether you want kids there or not but you got to follow the rules and it just seems as though whenever a rule is inconvenient we skirt the rule and we say ah don't worry about that rule okay and i think that it's it we have set a bad precedent and just because we've made mistakes in the past doesn't mean we should continue to make them moving forward so thank you mr chair great thank you mark i i think we could have a we could go on for a long time about this point i don't think that i don't think the beauty process is or should be about skirting the rules it is about allowing for greater design flexibility where the traditional zoning ordinance doesn't commit higher uses of the land i'm probably not quoting that very well we messed that up but but you're right it's a tool it's how we use it i've seen it used well and i've seen it used poorly and i think that we're somewhere in between there i wouldn't i don't think it's one or the other i think it depends on what comes before us what kind of improvements we need and again i think we've done it well but i think also that we've done it are not well so there's there's definitely improvements to be made but i do not agree with you in thinking that it is a way in which contractors excuse me developers get what they want because i just having worked for clients in a different setting i see that they're constantly trying to meet the needs of the city and i think that they do come to this city with that content could we do a better job we could we could we can agree to disagree great company thank you yeah great comments okay did you have anything you want to add that i don't think there was a question there for you so okay [Music] okay commissioner sholak the floor is yours all right thank you sir um i don't know if this was covered if if i missed it i apologize but is there uh is there tree removal involved in this project and and how much i thought i saw there is a tree removal plan there is tree removal again we do not have a tree preservation ordinance ts4 and ts5 so the tree removal is 41.6 of the caliper inches so of the 4700 caliber inches 1900s are removed 1900 so 60 tree preservation 60 percent keep and 41 cut down yes 41.06 removed so 58.4 they add up to 100 give or take a point all right i was no good at matthew i will continue to ask this at every meeting i don't know why we can't tell developers to develop where there aren't trees just coming into the meeting tonight driving up county road 10 to the city hall here i see another clear cutting going on the trucks are working late at night to cut the trees down i hear it from a half mile away and it sickens me to i know that the developers are willing to plant new trees and and that usually means about a story high something like that a story and a half you're not planting 20 and 30 foot trees and these are environments where wildlife lives and breeds these are these are trees that you are never going to get back again um and unfortunately a lot of the new trees that you're pla planting are also uh decorative trees or uh trees that um are fancier looking or something rather than the whatever trees are out there right now that my concern is is and always will be about preserving as much of the environmental integrity and looks of this city regarding construction trucks in my as my alter ego i'm a police police reserve is that what are you doing about it anything i'm sorry i'm a police reserve officer in the city and i've been called out many times or assigned to streets or roads that have high traffic truck traffic construction traffic one of course is hackamore road county road 10 that i live on is is constant all day uh you know i regardless of of whether the road can handle it or not i think it's fair that the residents on stig road ask construction trucks not to go on their road that's just you know if nothing else it's a courtesy i think and the third point i wanted to make was the well in septic system we got a a letter here from k and i don't know if if we have sufficiently answered the question uh what environmental impact will this have and we also got another letter about from the the whiteheads mike and lisa about the amount of of water that uh has seemed to be has seemed to relocate is my my understanding so i'm wondering if if you could respond kendra to the the well and septic and the environmental impact studies yes this the state of minnesota establishes environmental regulations and identifies thresholds whereby the development is required to prepare either an environmental assessment worksheet being a w or an environmental impact statement in eis this did not trigger that we talked about this with the council at the comprehensive plan this does not trigger it either under a connected action which is a complicated way of saying it's a continuation of bell weather or as a new product project however we did tell the council we would do a an eaw analysis of the new project using the bellwether eaw as the standard and so we reviewed with the dnr and the state historical society this project and prepared a memo for the file i'm happy that's available publicly if somebody would like to see that memo that our engineer and our planning team put together but at the end of the day we've evaluated against those state regulations and there's no nothing that increase crosses the threshold on an environmental review that cannot be mitigated with things like wetland buffers the blanding's turtle and the strike or two animals that could be here and there's procedures under state lava how to identify those and we put signs up in the construction site and things like that so we did do that portion of it in terms of the construction traffic i mean traffic drives on roads and they are public streets and we do as i said want to limit them to the higher volume roads certainly that's something we can bring back and talk with engineering and the development team about which direction they're going you know where are the materials and things like that and speed limits are another topic you can certainly talk about so again happy to make that environmental review available it was completed as part of that concept plan review the second letter i do think had some concerns and i think it talked about something that happened eight years ago and some drainage issues the short answer is that existing drainage must be maintained and that this site does drain west and it will continue to drain with but if there is a clog in a ditch or a culvert we do want to know that and so i would encourage the whitehead whiteheads to um to reach out to our public works director and as this proceeds they can certainly take a look at that site but in general when development happens those kinds of drainage issues tend to get better because we're holding water on this new site as opposed to draining it there but i did review with the city engineer yesterday he's aware of the issue and certainly as we if this project goes forward there will certainly be some on-site inspections but regardless of whether it goes forward if there is a club here or over at 116 where don't ultimately drains too you know feel free to reach out and he'll work with them and visit the site thank you and just one other comment about the construction trucks i realized that you as a as a developer as a as a corporation really don't have control over the every individual driver and i understand that um the vast majority of of the offenders of the speed limits and things like that uh i i believe are probably not from corcoran i'm guessing uh they're subcontracted from other areas and they either don't know or or choose to break the speed limits on our roads it's just very frustrating when you've got when you're sitting there and it was many times sometimes four to eight hours a week i was monitoring the traffic on hackamore road which is is not in the best of shape anyhow and i would see these trucks with tremendous loads dangerous loads deadly loads driving down our streets and and after a while i think you don't have to be a trained observer to be able to tell whether a truck or a car or vehicle is speeding or not uh they obviously are and it's it it it turns that vehicle into a death machine and so i think maybe the the a good place to go with this is to is to talk to all the developers in who are doing work in corcoran and ask them to talk to all the subcontractors that do work for them and and say that we're asking you to to maintain a the speed limit or even at you know in a perfect world even a little bit under the speed limit to protect our citizens thank you sir okay i guess that leaves me to wrap up um so i just a couple of general questions and then i'd like to get into some discussions on some issues with the with the rest of you folks um am i am i correct in assuming that the the builder for amber lee is ulti correct okay and when it comes to uh that park i think that was a question i hadn't thought of so this park down here is clearly within the bellwether that is a public park correct mr chair it is a public park okay so if i'm a senior living in that development down on those new parts um is it maybe i mean could i i'm wondering if i would consider that to be a positive amenity to have a play field and and whatever else in the traffic running through my development that is supposed to be for seniors only so i'm guess i'm questioning the logic of actually it's kind of like the you have an outdoor pool but not an indoor pool kind of thing this is kind of like the same thing um is there is there any rhyme or reason that maybe you guys could give us as to why that park is there i can tell you okay uh it's on our comprehensive plan we wanted this natural park here to preserve as commissioner shulock uh talks about a significant woodland area so as part of bellwether we took the big nature park and we'll take more when the final phase comes on the west side and then our comprehensive plan also shows a neighborhood park here and so the city is telling them they are required to dedicate that land and so it is really important that we have the parking lot and that parking lot is visible and accessible and that's why we made them widen out that entrance and they may have to do more but in making those trails connect from stig road through amberly through bellwether to make it clear that this is a public park okay but we as the city are requiring it they they i don't know if they would say they would like it or not i i and i can see that i i guess maybe i didn't quite put my question and and i know that the amenities haven't been finalized but would it not be better to leave it just natural with just trails instead of putting in you know ball fields and everything else that maybe don't fit the residents of the neighborhood i think the parks commission's had a little bit of conversation about this as i say it's going to look different than wildflower park in ravinia which is a playground and a sport court and i forget what else is out there i think this will probably still have some sort of a playground a lot of these folks are going to have grandkids that are going to come and they're going to want to walk there and do that but it's more likely to be more of a um less of a playground with with baseball fields and maybe more um you know those exercise parks and things like that but i think there'll probably still be a playground there'll still be things that residents want to walk from robert lane someday and use i think people will want to use that open space park that's going to be a gorgeous park to see the trees that we're trying to preserve that's one way we do it is by preserving this park so i think you're right that what goes in that park will be different and uh i think the parks commission really wants to make sure we have good signage we do a lot to make sure everybody realizes it's not the am the bellwether park it's the city park okay and then with the parking lot certainly understand the need for that but there were some questions in about backing up against houses so what our parking lot standards apply there you know the three foot barrier and and landscape you know to that extent i think we'll work very closely with pulte on that i mean they're not going to want a parking lot shining in the rear yards of homes that they won't be able to sell so i suspect there'll be some pretty significant landscaping along that parking lot maybe beyond even that three foot that we would typically see i don't have the answer to that the parks commission wants to see what they can sketch up and work with them to define something that works for the parks commission and the developer okay mr chair yes sir just real quick i i was asking why are we putting it there now i understand what the conversation you guys have just had the road is going to go into a non-55 and older community this is on the northern edge of that property if and when that ever develops and stuff in its strategic place for a park even though it is probably on the south west side of a 55 and in a more experienced community instead of staying older i'm going to do it that way so it makes it makes a lot more sense it's neat it's going to be a transition park is kind of in the time that i've spent on parks and stuff now i see what it's for and i apologize for saying why are we putting it there so um thanks for letting me speak mr chair okay thank you dean all right um so on page nine um when uh we're talking about [Music] trees so the last sentence or last paragraph above the diagram landscape plan shows an upgraded landscape plan along steed road four to five trees in the rear yard i know it was talked about earlier here um i i just i i'm trying to is that four or five trees per yard okay yes because i thought four or five trees along that length of a road is not going to do much so but you know comparing that to our other one later where they're doing three trees per yard it seemed to be okay that seems to be almost a stretch how are we fitting four or five trees per yard in this situation but i understand there's an additional five feet right in the back so these won't be in a linear row it might actually be two rows in right that be correct yeah so it's a little bit staggered but it's not really two rows per second okay all right um okay so i i think um here's here's some of my bigger uh my bigger issues the way i see it uh there are the the first question i have is the bellwether pud they are requesting five feet in between the houses whereas we have defaulted now to a seven and a half foot my question to the commission is now we have a lot of precedence here with the original bellwether development where we allowed this to happen is there any appetite within the commission to suggest to the city council that we that we require the now current default of seven and a half feet side setbacks doesn't this isn't this only the annual the uh the single-family homes in question doesn't this apply isn't this variance applying to just the single family and not i thought they were just seeking the same for the bellwether but they're looking for the seven and a half between the larger homes well the the the rmf3 is according to the according to the uh grid um well it says seven and a half right they weren't asked but they're asking for five step back so just to be clear amberly is the single family stuff on the west side and instead of doing five and ten which equals fifteen they want to do the easy math because they want to do seven and a half and seven and a half to get to 15. on bellwether portion they do want five and five like they have in the rest of bellwether and my question to the commission is specifically just for the bellwether portion of this do we do we want to support that um as we did with the original portions or is there any appetite to maybe recommend to the council to default to the seven and a half feet well i think we should follow what the code says so what does the code require does it require five or does it require seven and a half or does it require ten i don't know i don't i don't have that you don't write the underlying zombie yeah the underlying zoning requires five feet on the garage side and 10 feet on the living side for a total of 15 feet of separation between both in the rsf3 zoning district which is what we used for bellwether because if you recall that had multiple zoning districts so so i'm i'm sorry what is that again okay no there was there was someone who wrote a letter right i don't know that's a corcoran resume that's an another resident making an observation yeah they said that it was difficult um to do god word like if they're going to build a deck or something get materials contractors and equipment and it just wasn't there because you got to remember you've got you've got five feet on each side of the property line but you've also got your air conditioners and it's locked but in the past though and maybe not this one we've asked for hvac units to not be in the side yard and to make that side yard clear so i'm throwing this in as if we do stay with the five feet just say we do can we say but it really has to be five feet not three feet between hkc units you know what i mean this is adding another variable in there if we stick with the fine piece all right i was all driving around today i saw all the hvacs side and rear yard um in in all of our developments with five foot setbacks because all of our developments have five foot setbacks our new developments i mean um so we do as it's drafted alum in the side and rear which is what we allowed for bellwether to date you could modify that i remember with mi on the bass lake crossings that became problematic i can't remember why but they had a real um concern about that but that could be something you could talk about well i remember with mi there was some drainage easements but that's not applicable here my question is is if we did keep with the five feet is it reasonable to ask that hvac units or anything that narrows that five foot gap between the ten foot collector ten foot anything that narrows that not be placed there such as placing hvac at the back of the building yeah i think you could modify right now that's in the pud resolution as condition number nine that says it must be located in the side of the rear yard you could recommend to the council that it be in the rear yard and modify it yeah but but for like a walkout property and stuff i mean might and i'm not a builder but might that not cause some problems for where the utility room would be located on the inside of the house i think that probably now that you're saying that might have been what mi was concerned about their house plan yeah it could be an issue so i'm not sure that it's a reasonable thing to ask and just saying yeah it is i i don't like the five feet i mean i know they're doing it but i haven't talked about whether it wasn't well i i mean i you know while i would certainly like to always see developers abide by the standards again because we are dealing with a pud everything is in play and because we already have precedence i'm willing to let this stay at seven and a half feet so if nobody else wants to bring it up but let's let's maybe this will help play into the next that was something that when this concept plan went to the council one of the things they asked the council is you know will you continue to support the bellwether uh concept with the five foot setbacks if we agree that we will provide that 15-foot separation on amberly and that was compelling for them at the time just for contacts but you can make your own recommendations tonight okay so my second issue or point of discussion i want to have with you folks is amberly