oh okay okay good um because i was wondering do does that have to be then taken down in order to provide the parking spots these are recommended parking spots as part of the project right to go to the the 46 or the 54 or 53 correct that plan is from the applicant showing how they could meet the required parking stalls okay um now kendra the the graph you had up there about that that easement to the ebert property um that's currently gravel right now mr chair just to clarify the easement actually serves the property to the south not the uber property but it straddles this property and the ebert property and there has been gravel added into that easement area and it should be removed as part of this project oh the ebert property you're right that's to the east correct so this service is the property of south that's driveway design [Music] and driveway design i don't recall they don't use that to access the property my knowledge that easement has never been used but it exists okay and you're suggesting that that gravel be removed and put back to turf so that that that stuff doesn't overflow into it two reasons uh we're suggesting that it be removed to keep that ease access easement open so it could be used but there's no obstruction to it now well the fence and the gravel area up to there should be pulled back again we're trying to contain the storage area but it has the added benefit then if you remove that gravel from there and re restore it to turf you can now take that square footage of gravel and expand that purple outside storage area that there to the southwest in the morning advanced area correct okay okay add to that yes sir please do so if you i don't know if you can pull that up but that was the first thing i saw thought reconfirmed earlier to speak with jim at home creek watershed and the main driver is it's it's two things one is adding new impervious which uh i believe uh what chemical is saying is that you take the impervious surface from the east and add it to the south that's hence the purple area hence the purple area but when you do that you are also disturbing more soil so not necessarily city regulation or watershed regulation but when you disturb more than one acre of soil you get into the minnesota pollution mpc it's funny you say that because we just had this discussion on another issue not too long ago and it's well who pays attention to disturbing one acre or what qualifies or you know remember that discussion yeah what is it the wspaa or s yeah [Applause] okay so they told you that because it's over an acre and you'd be disturbing that you'd have to then go under review [Music] so his exact portion we talked to him on tuesday do what you can to stay under an acre and i said well that's that's what we're trying to do now right now we're at 7 [Music] see what comes out of that and we'll go from there again seven tenths of an acre if you did this work you'd be over an acre or flirting with that line anyway um then you would have requirements for the city and watershed because you're in anchorage but then also requirements through this state as well so that's just another doable uh but another camp worms where you would get into forgive me uh water quality issues so more likely a pond of some sort very little room as you can see on the site for a pond so that hence the reason why we're trying to stay under an acre if i could also go back to the snowmobile trail and the tree line you might have queen yeah you enter do you want the red laser light that's fine um so a couple reasons why we're trying to remain north of this snowmobile trail is just one item to your point before i really don't like to cut a tree down just to add another tree right so if we can prevent cutting these trees i really would um the snowmobile trail and then also these wetlands that are down here as well so we want i can't read that line or that dimension forgive me on the screen but we want to maintain a distance from those wetlands we also want to limit the amount of our disturbance area which if we brought this parking south we would be again increasing our limits of disturbance getting closer to that one infrastructure so for those reasons not just the snowmobile trail that's one of them but for a few different reasons and uh commissioner lana you had said that one thing really affects them there's just a domino effect once you start changing one thing it does certainly yeah um let's let me just kendra do you do you have a comment on the wetland um study that would be required or the review so the um the city has gone out and again we are interested in making uh improvements on this site and bringing this site into compliance so we've gone out with them and looked at the wetland and delineated the edge of the wetland which is in this area of the site it's 38 feet from the wetland edge to where they're proposing the fence uh are you asking about the wetland or the storm water pond i'm asking about the one acre requirement that he's saying well if we put if we if we if we build up the purple area now we've disturbed more than an acre and now it throws us into that for you know that that hat of review by the minnesota pollution control agency and etc etc so mr chair there is a one acre trigger that's true i mean i feel like all applicants are subject to that yes so it's not unique to this site and sometimes you know improvements do that our engineers believe that they can do what i'm suggesting here by reclaiming and restoring without triggering that as long as it's equal amounts and we're certainly willing to work with them and the watershed it might not be it might require some finessing but our engineers believe that so that's the message i'm sharing with the planning commission okay if i recall the discussion on the topic of that permitting process i think i made some comments that you know those things were being done sometimes by by the public works director and stuff um would would this fall under his review or does this go to the state which will throw you know four different uh environmentalists at the issue and so this swift process the stormwater management plan is approved by the city that's the city engineer the stormwater management plan also gets reviewed by elm creek watershed and the swip gets submitted to the state of minnesota rarely if the watershed in the city are comfortable with the plan does the mpca say haha it is over one acre you need to do the pond so i feel like if the city can work with the watershed and agree that this is meeting the intent uh and and um that's not disturbance in the same way i think we can probably get there based on what the engineer says okay i'm i'm curious about the outdoor storage what are we storing out there or i'm sorry not we what what is the applicant storing in the let's just for now call it the white area that is not very uniform in size or shape i take it that's just an existing dirt ground gravel it's a it's an existing shape of a gravel pad what what what exactly is going to be stored out there i don't recall seeing it in the report but i'm just curious because right now we're going to try to involve tigers on the north side we use it a lot for the people who have low income that don't have a lot of money so they want to have used terrorist goodbyes [Music] okay but it would be fair to say then that what you're storing out there isn't an exact science it's not like hey we need 120 000 square feet of warehouse space because this is what we're doing so so that is a a flex area that is really not scientifically designed based on its area so if there's a a point of flexibility in all this it's it's then how much do you how much you push back then the setback and everything else do you give up for that um [Music] you know you understand what i'm saying is that it so here's the i mean right now the all the space that they use on the north side how does that compare overall i could have done the measurement on google earth i wish i would have but how does that we're downsizing the amount of space that we have okay and we're trying to make everything come into compliance but i do need i do have to have some kind of storage yes and mr chair what we're trying to accomplish with this purple area we want to control the storage area so we're going to say that the conditions say outline the storage area so if the storage air is only the gravel then the fence should follow that gravel area that's i think too restrictive given what exists today and so i'm trying to we're trying to find a way to allow this entire zone to be fenced and graveled so it can all be used for storage alternatively we would say then just put the fence around the storage area because you know if the fence is there it's all going to be storage anyway so let's be honest about what's happening put the class 5 down and use it for storage and screen it so i mean it doesn't seem because it is down it doesn't sound like unreasonableness right i mean it's already there right and yeah i don't know that it would make it okay um [Music] i i think that's all i i had initially so i've got a question about the purple area that um is there anything currently being used in that area that's outside of the storage area on on the on the map so you've got this the outside storage area that's gravel right now that's the white area and then the purple area is is there anything in the purple area right now there is grass in there right now and there is some products that are in there yes not a lot because it's very soft there's not a lot because right down here is a creek that runs through here and this water runs out and so this area right here is very soft another reason what we're trying to avoid is going down here you want to move all this gravel down to here there's going to be a lot of big enough of the soil to make a good base so we're trying to avoid getting into this college swamp if you want it's very dangerous to open that candle so so even the storage of tires there would not be recommended i i just wanted a nice straight shot make a clean cut which is you're worried about the sprawling coming this way which okay so we do a clean head straight across and that makes it simple whether i can store anything here is questionable anyways i just want to make it more strict this this area to this point where the p is and expanded is about two to three feet lower than this center dimension here so this area is substantially lower than this gravel pattern everything wants to drain the natural drainage is from the north and north northeast to the south and southwest so this is really the low point of the line so mr chair our goal was to try to help them maximize that but our condition remains the same that the fence should be at the edge of the outside storage area so if that can't be used for one reason or another then the fence should be moved over to here at the edge of the gravel instead of over here okay i see a fence at the end of the asphalt parking area and i see a fence even farther south there's no fence on the plan right here right now and that's where there's no fence i get there's no west fence right and i agree with your recommendation okay okay but is there a fence on the s on the south side of the asphalt parking lot oh that would be the screening essentially of the storage right i i see 122 linear feet proposed fence so there is a fence yes and then and then there's a hundred and [Music] man i should have brought those glasses the fence does rise there's 169 linear feet of proposed fence farther south uh beyond the storage area and that low wetland the purple area so they're building two fences basically on the south side of the property correct the fence runs from here to here to screen three sides of the storage area there is another fence that runs from here and then meets up with the fence down here yep so is that what you're saying oh yeah yeah i i just wanted to confirm that i'm seeing there's two fences running parallel with each other one at this one at the at the south side of the parking lot and one on the south side of the storage area yeah yeah yeah okay that's because we kept talking about screened in storage i i couldn't grasp it because it was hard to see that fence line unless you read the all the little small print um okay and what [Music] this temporary storage that's where if you took off a big piece of equipment off of a trailer it would be stored there okay it's not designed to be a month year whatever it's just to be temporary for us to get through the work done and then they can load up and go right if if the recommendation is to not allow the 72 foot wide curb cut and according to public safety a you guys are more than welcome to use the street to take that equipment off and and do your work my question then is if you take off a big bulldozer off of a off of a trailer so you could work on it um would it make its way to the temporary storage or would it have to just sit on the street first of all i don't think the city wants you to have a bulldozer pads on into this gravel spot now they got twist and turn on top of that black top you're causing more damage to your background the thought was you pull up here the truck pulls all in here unload it they pull up here and then they back up to get worked out that was the compromise of how we came up with requests okay let's just hold the conversation then to these 103 foot long every trucks to eight weeks okay and and that would be commercial construction heavy-duty construction equipment that they're taking off okay yep okay because when i saw those trucks i was like i've never seen a semi-trailer truck that big but i can i i certainly understand the the heavy-duty you know equipment uh i now that makes sense to me um yeah so this would be a wide load this would be a calling one of the guys hauls uh telephone poles have equipment uh i see contracting those are the two that come in a regular basis for our shop and they have the trucking trailers on them and they can't go too many places because they can't get service work times and places to go okay so um if if if the recommendation to the city council is to deny well let's just say the city council then denies the the uh the variance for the curb cut how does that driveway get shaped to to 35 feet do they do in in relationship to the this temporary you know this gravel pad to at least still work on trucks whether or not they actually get a 103 foot truck in there or not i'm i'm sure they probably can't with that but what does does it come in from the west or does it matter i mean we're not we're not predicting where that driveway cut comes in all i would say is every business in town is subject to the same standards and they can make it work so i'm absolutely confident in the applicant's engineers ability to design a parking lot that will work subject to our standards it works everywhere else so we can do that and we've the public safety group has said for the and now i forgot sean what you said if it's every six weeks when these guys are coming in on this unusually large trailer we just have to notice public safety and they will give a special permit otherwise we do not want people unloading on the street but there are ways to do that with tracks to ensure that they can unload and not tear up our public street but we need to work with them in public safety to figure out how to do that for those occasions when that trailer is loaded and has to be unloaded the telephone guy is probably not bringing telephone poles on that tractor and unloading them in the yard that's a lot of space so that's probably not happening so when it is something with a backhoe that they have to leave on the trailer when they get that fixed we'll work with them to get a special permit to allow them to unload on the street and there's a way we can do it safely so may i ask a time frame on that special permit i think if the mr chair i think if public safety i think doesn't have a permit process that exists today so we'll have to work with you to figure out how to make sure that notification can occur i don't think it's something like you know a week in advance or anything i suspect it's a fairly quick turnaround natalie was coordinating that with public safety but i i think we can come up with something well i would think that if this is something if this is something that we're gonna that we're gonna state as as a promise and a policy to this applicant um i would think that this is something you do over an email in a matter of hours yes this isn't something that has to go to committee and has to be written down and reviewed and and they got to wait this has to be a this has to be flat uh i'm sorry how many of you plan to have your flat tire mr chair i think i think the point is if the if the guys call and they say i'm on uh 10 and i'm on 116 and 30 and i'm coming in because i got a flat tire on my um giant truck that we rarely see in corcoran uh all sean needs to do is text um the pd or call the pd i think and say hey i got a truck coming in i'm gonna need to do that and we've established the policy for how we're gonna mark the on the road with the you know flags or whatever things you put up when when you're blocking the road because those trucks block the road when they're parked there but there's not really a way to do that with without parking there for a vehicle of that size so i have every confidence it can be a very quick you know here's your contact at public safety here's the vehicle coming in fyi we're going to be blocking the street for whatever this period of time is so if the project were approved with those conditions we'd want to sit down with the westside folks and pd and figure out what exactly that is absolutely we i think everybody in corcoran wants west side to continue to be successful so we do not have an incentive to make it impossible for you to fix your clients products but we do want to make sure that our public seat streets are safe as well okay i feel the tension of i'm a big fan of small businesses being able to operate as small businesses with very little like you know obstacles right like and and so i would love to see us be able to bring them into the conformance that is required so that there's an even keel ordinance right that all business owners comply with but um you know without like kendra said you really i i just would like to say i would like a small business to continue to be successful as well okay um [Music] any other comments discussion we haven't really discussed the setback variants very much and i'm curious people's thoughts on the setback variants well only because i guess like to i understand like if the ordinance of the city says that that is a setback requirement and that's what we require for all businesses i don't know the driver for a setback variance you know like if it's just a uniformity of look um or because it doesn't it's not addressed anywhere else so i guess i'm not understanding but if the ordinance exists and that is the setback um then i think that we should if everybody else has to comply with that setback then we should require compliance well and i think it's been testified to and proven and you look at google earth every business on the street has pretty much complied with the setback um now you know i don't have absolute verification when they all built their buildings and stuff but you can see it's all fairly uniform you know we talked earlier today about setting precedence but i i'm you know it's getting a little late at night and it's been a long three days reviewing this stuff but i mean it's i think the discussion between you and i was that uh setting precedent for a variance isn't actually setting precedence it's very difficult because you have to look at the unique circumstances of each individual lot okay but in this case the variance the staff recommendation is to deny the variance because there are no unique circumstances to the la physical circumstances other than the desire to [Music] preserve the trees preserve the snowmobile trail and not have to um not have to fill in that back corner and run the risk of having a water permit mr chair correct we don't believe that the hardship standard has been met they can reasonably kendra and i will believe they can reasonably shift things back to be able to meet the setback requirements okay i i hope that helped answer the question anybody else i i was just curious i had a few questions but most of them are been probably talked about i was just wondering what like is there some of the other ones we've looked at like certain requirements for parking lots with lights there's no lighting requirements it says for the site but sometimes we have these requirements for landscape islands and i don't really understand how what's the how does that connect to this you know why is there no lighting required why don't we need landscaping i mean we've talked a little bit about landscaping but like some of the other i remember we talked about the st teresa there was like landscape islands there were so many feet i mean that's a good question this isn't in the southeast district i think it's because isn't this the the primary uh the the uh the use of this is as a parking lot and because there's no building associated on that site it doesn't need islands or is it the zoning for it is because it's industrial i think it is more or less real part of the administrature and the commission is the zoning it's also not um a part of the master planned area for the southeast district where st terese was well if i could just clarify it is in the southeast district but it's not in the town center um so there's a different design standard for saint trees oh oh i see so i apologize though and lighting isn't a requirement like some parking lot lighting that's not a requirement we would we actually don't require lighting for parking lots in corcoran um we have standards for if they do do uh install parking lot lighting what the what the cutoffs need to be and the foot candles but we don't actually require that thanks what about the parking now number of parking spaces you you said they could get down to 46 stalls but the applicant wants more well i when i spoke with them uh in a on a zoon call that's a pretty that's a pretty that's not typical all right um they so couple things again i'd like some more information to confirm that 54 is required i just don't have the data to confirm that right now but 33 was initially granted as being sufficient back in when this property was yeah okay and that 33 did it did it get altered when they put on the additions for the office in the warehouse and stuff or was that 33 for the initial square footage that was originally built the 33 was shown on a 1992 approval for the addition okay and i was not here then i'm not sure how those parking stalls you know disappeared over time um or whether they even actually got painted in in when it was originally approved but i but i do know what the original approval showed which was 33 stalls which was in compliance with the code after that last edition was built according to the staff report from 1992 i believe it was so you do have discretion like i said there's a couple things everything could slide you could comply that way you could give them the ability to reduce the number of parking styles to well i read in the report they have 25 employees now most customers and i'm only i would assume most customers because every time i go there i you know the truck and the trailer or both are are there in the lot i don't have to park it right so i don't know i don't know how many i don't see an over an abundance of people maybe one or two at most in the waiting office so i'm i'm assuming that most of the parking is for vehicles that are waiting for tires and there's a 72 hour i saw 72 hours as max as it can sit without having to go into the you know the dark and and secluded storage area but um [Music] i you know i'm i would be more than i i couldn't believe that that that there were 53 stalls or whatever it was that needed to be required for this thing i was shocked i was like well if there's something there's something to trim out of this thing to make this thing work it'd certainly be parking um so i'm willing to give the applicant as much leeway as they think that they need to sufficiently house their employees parking requirements and that of any waiting customers or cars that might need to sit overnight to wait for a tire or they just couldn't get it that day [Music] if that's 40 that's great i mean it's you know if they have to put a car in deep storage then that's what they do if they i you know [Music] i could see you know again it's either a good comparable solution is either you allow them to fill in that area without having to go through the the water permit or we reduce the the number of parking spots or a combination of both and if the and if that works to keep the trail keep the trees give them what they want and give this i i have to agree i i can't uh i i gotta go with the setback and and the um and and the driveway cut um although i think the driveway cut maybe you know if 35 feet but if everybody else does it and that's what we've required in the past um consistency is important for a lot of reasons i i i could see given a lot of leeway for the parking requirement whatever you know whatever ultimately works to everybody have a general consensus for that i thought the same thing but it's kind of interesting you guys at west side are want i mean you want more you need the parking is i think you're saying kendra okay i made the comment before we built the building in 1988 we had no clue we would ever grow this size so i'm thinking if we're going to do this we're going to plan ahead but i was i got a question for the commission how many have been here since 1988 i built my house in 94. i'm not on the commission i'm not accountable you've been here for a long time i've been in this general area since 1987. so in 88 when we came here sydney carter was like yes please we want businesses to come here so we built and we built we built we built four times we built the west side and we've been trying we never incremented we grow this boat we built our first building it was four times bigger than what we were renting we thought well this is great so there's a demand for that service here in this community we are not trying to be evil people and nobody thinks you are right we're trying to run a business take care of customers support the community do whatever we possibly can to fit in but the last three and a half years there's been help i've been threatened about shutting my business down putting this tape across the door because i'm out of compliance i've been told i should move out of courtroom who who threatened you the mayor promised so they also threatened the last sell your property to greg ebert and move to burstville you guys i've been attacked for the last three and a half years and i've been trying to work this out trying to work this out trying to work this out tonight councilman our commissioner you pointed out we've been in violation there's so many of them you don't even know where to begin no i i i want to just step in it wasn't that it was asking for variances and stuff it wasn't he wasn't claiming you were out of violation i mean you have a lot of them i want to ask and i asked mr burns when he was a commissioner or he was a person that was in charge of what was he city administrator and i asked him for the codes from 1994 that's when we put the parking lot across the street in 1994 i asked them for the codes from 1994 to show me what they were for iphone we've been parking over there and storage and things over there since 1994. i asked for the codes i have yet to see the coach i want to see what because i should be grandfathered in correct i've been there since 1994 parking down that property the project that we're spending on the you guys are talking about this is not this is not adequate for for the variance you're trying to keep saying all this stuff right okay i'm limited with what i can do if i said it's all grown jerome where are currently at so my options are getting pretty thin do i shut it down and leave corbin or do i stay here and try to work with you guys so i've been presenting this and i keep saying no you can't do this no you can't do this no you can't do this well what is the purpose of a variance you have a code and the variances say okay yes we are understanding you we need to change it we'll give you a barrier so you can run your business if you don't want to do that i understand that but i i'm frustrated i really am okay but but in in coming into compliance with what the the report recommends i mean just be honest with me because because honestly i you know i've read this and i've we've heard this this this issue i mean even though we haven't had to make a recommendation but what i'm trying to understand i i get the the curb cut you know if you get a you know 103 foot long truck you know yeah it might not fit into 35 feet i get that but if the if the city's willing to allow you to do it on the street what huh [Music] let me finish if you would please um um if if if if that is a solution i wha what i'm ultimately trying to get to here is and then we've got this issue of the back storage we got an issue of a west fence line so if we say wait you know what our code says you got to put in the west fence you got to totally enclose it i don't think we're asking too much to be into compliance okay and i don't see that being a reason to to conclude that anybody here assumes that maybe you should move out and and and when it comes to your parking lot and the materials used in it and everything else i'm trying to understand what is it about the staff recommendation in this report that that you would argue most is not going to allow you to continue to grow your business in the city of corcoran what what is it is it defense is it the lack of gravel storage is it because you can't pull a truck into the thing what is it that is not going to allow you to grow your business but i did not say you can i'm just saying okay i don't drive a 54-foot truck i don't drive a 63-foot truck i certainly don't drive a 103 foot truck i have a lot of boats and trailers so when you make a turn how easy is that for you to do well with a 29 foot snowmobile trailer it's not too difficult with a pickup truck for most everything i have to get in and out of that is served on a public road good now put it to a 53 foot semi an 84 truck and trailer the fifth you go you got a truck and trailer 80 lock they're paid to drive forward they're not paid to back up they cannot turn they just don't do what they're doing so how has it been possible then please allow me just how has it been possible then that you've done this for these large trucks for regular semi trucks and for these 103 foot trucks how is it that you've been able to service them if they can't turn around how have you serviced them because you've never had a parking lot that they could turn around in have you they go down the end of the road in the cul-de-sac and they pull up to the back of the good side which is their left side they also pull into my parking lot they want to be on an 80-foot driveway right now so they can make a nice swing and then they back straight up across the street into the door so we can work out okay so they do back up correct okay so this isn't this isn't a function that they need to go forward only did they not ask for a wider and i want to say i think they asked for like 40 feet the truck takes a turn what do they do first thing they do is they jump the car go downtown minneapolis go down and limit yeah watch them turn hurt they hit the curb they go over it to keep going one-on-one also they take signs up all the time you know i it's it's everything piling up okay and maybe it's time maybe it's not time i don't know we have to figure out how to make this work and i appreciate you guys time but hearing the same things over and over and over again we can't do this we can't do this can't do this well how about we figure out a solution that makes my business easier to run rather than having to call the public safety every time i need to work on a truck that doesn't call me ahead of time they just show up and i can say oh you're going to wait here for 30 minutes before the public safety comes over and mark's going to unload this would you do that as a customer would you sit there oh i'll wait patiently for 30 minutes it's 100 plus an hour for a driver to sit there yeah i i mean you know that we're i i understand what you're saying i understand what you're saying and and and so really this is this all comes down to whether or not you can pull in a 103 foot truck it comes down to the outside or not i need to have used tires for customers and and i believe that there's adequate space for that tell me if it's not i don't believe but we've already strengthened the outside storage less than what i wanted to do i know but this this drawing that you submitted is there enough outdoor storage there or not realistically no okay but i'm trying to make it work into what the requirements are for the city i'm trying to make it simple for snowplowing so i want to have the left side of the fence open i understand you want it closed i'm willing to do that you want me to move the gravel from the right away the easement for a driveway design i talked to randy and he's like no no no leave it there because i'm going to put the road through there sooner or later so he's going to put a road in he owns that right away driving design owns the right way i understand that so there's 30 foot 15 on neighbors side 15 on my side that's what he's got for the right away he's like don't pick the gravel it's already a nice base are we talking a driveway or are we talking a road there's a driveway easement that would have to come through the city there's i'm not sure that it would be permitted but the easement exists today okay all right and you know what sir i agree with you i i just i you know if there's there's things that we can cut out of here that don't make sense to me it's why remove the the gravel and turn it to the grass um especially if there's a fence there to prevent the the moving into that area um i'm willing to i'm willing to to to say that yeah that might be a little over top necessity that maybe doesn't need to be done because it doesn't change the fence location it doesn't change the use for you or anybody else if no one is currently using it which is why i asked right no one's currently use it you don't use it for anything randy doesn't use it for anything and you know since there's not a lot of grass requirement anyway i don't know what difference that makes all right so help me again so um what what what doesn't want to improve the variances okay again and i want to know what does it take to make sure that your business can operate that the variance apparently is not going to or that denial of it is going to [Music] significantly impact your ability to conduct your business okay but but but let's just let's be honest with each other let's be honest with each other what we're saying though is that you have room to move further back yes and then you're saying that we can then so you you get you can still get the same amount of parking spaces you can still get your outdoor storage so this isn't a limitation to you conducting your business or growing your business it just means that you have to move everything to the south okay is that fair is that a fair [Music] realization a fair agreement that it's a fair assumption on your part yes on my part no okay well i don't want to assume anything that's why i'm asking the very property and it causes more problems for the drainage now you have to put in and landon's already talked about this that you're going to need to put in some kind of water treatment you told me that the creek runs there if you've done it back in poverty if you look at the property there's a creek that runs from 116 all the way back past it goes all the way out to larkin road because it's quick to fall soon so it's very wet back there the tree line is okay i see approximate wetland limits right in the middle of the tree line is where that creek runs yeah yeah i get it very low even in last summer when it was very dry back there it was wet so it sounds wonderful to take this section up here that's up by the northeast side of the village scrape up all that gravel and move it to the south west but like landed point out it's over a two foot drop there's a lot of work to be done to do that to gain what it doesn't make me any money to have outside storage and parking that doesn't generate income for me unfortunately it's a cost of doing business if you want to do your business you have to have parking and you have to have storage right i agree if you're going to run a restaurant you got to provide napkins and cups and everything it allows you to make money or it's necessary you got to have a parking lot to have customers okay so i'm not going to look at i'm not going to i'm not going to buy the argument that because we're requiring you to have outdoor storage which you have taken liberties to do at your business i would agree on that i would agree on 1992 on the south side i want to see the ordinance and you know what unfortunately i can't help you with that either so you and i are both going to have to just that and i don't have an ant you know i don't know what the answer is for that other than to you know just deal with what we got um this is a very close to heart matter for me this has been a nagging thing for three and a half years and as the council the city council has said that they want to get this resolved i want to get this resolved and you guys will get the comment they wanted to resolve the staff and maybe comment they want to get the result we're just going to stay calm cool collective and try to figure out how to resolve this and i'm sorry but this is very personal and and maybe i need to you know just i i've been on i've always looked at my role and everybody else's role on this commission we don't decide anything we can we can have a lot of you know really wild outlandish opinions we can support the staff recommendations on many occasions we go against staff recommendations but i always say it's really up to the council we just make a recommendation on something if the council and i read the report they do want to get this result and they do support a resolution i unfortunately i don't i don't know exactly what that that that what they're willing to do to resolve this issue um [Music] if if if anybody here wants to chime in but again i don't want to i don't want to put this at the issue of our meeting right now of what the council will do um as as a means to abate our discussion or recommendation or to set to set your frustration at ease right now tonight but um yeah i'm one on the council i i know sean's and i vote lauren's frustration from the past i would imagine it's great we have a new administrator we have a new mayor many new council members many new planning commissions so i don't want to live in the past if i can i don't know i don't know what i'm saying right now i just this one business with the parking lot across the street is truly unique i have no idea how the other folks are going to do it or how the other council members or the mayor is going to vote but i want to do everything i can to help you stay in business here because there's no other business like yours in i don't know how many miles the customer service community support and all those things you guys are doing a great job sean thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts over the last and you say three and a half years i think it's almost four and a half to five years the expenditures that westside has had to do and there's still no resolution to this the previous the parking lot and everything that was done back in 1994 it would be nice if if we could find that there's tremendous frustration again here i think we all want to make west side all right keep going even longer but we've gotta find we gotta find common ground and those kind of things and if we're awkward mark it's greater black or gray and give a mark hard time i'll be quiet though i just i love the diversity of everything that we're thinking and such i love our businesses and that's why i'm on the council right now but we also have to put things in place so yeah i and i'm sorry i didn't get your name i'm sean [Music] how do you spell your last name sean okay okay i sean i i've never met you before so sean currently i measured on google earth the the opening of what you currently are using for that south side is 71 feet so it's it's almost you're you're planning this this proposal plans to use the same imprint basically right okay now in all the times that you've been using that can you just off the cuff tell me how many times has there been a safety incident an accident or anything like that related to the business that you operate and you want to operate in the future related to these large trucks and everything else it's interesting you asked that question councilman schultz asked the police chief has there ever been any accidents in front of our holding do you have any clue what that answer would be well i'm going to guess it's nothing but but here here's here's what i find interesting because i kind of understand the issue though just driving into the property your your your your operations on the north side how wide is that driveway cut there isn't any but that's that's almost the entire width of your property is it a little confusing yes but if there's one thing i've understood is that when i back my trailer up it's nice to have but you you've got the garage doors you've got the service space you kind of need that space in order to get a lot of vehicles that are lined up with your doors so so when it comes to the 72 feet and it comes to the issues of public safety because we want to make sure that traffic coming in and out of that parking lot knows that you need to stay to this side and you need to stay to that side can anybody in this room tell me how that can be achieved without like say putting in a center median or an upward sign above grade can it be done with paint we talked about that last fall with brad martens and the mayor uh we it was suggested put in a concrete medium like a drivable rope drive over a bowl forgive me the medium that you can drive and i kind of like what mcdonald's has in maple grove it's supposed to divide the parking lot but i swear to god i think everybody just drives over it like it's it's not even like a speed bump so then what's the point right so i mean we talked about can you add striping there yes can you add signage yes at some point we've all driven through a and up at some point there's too many sides right so there are certain things i mean you can add striping that would help yes um i don't i wouldn't say a concrete medium is the answer here i really don't think that that helps because that really just makes things lighter and you're driving over it anyway so well i'm assuming you don't want anything really significantly above ground because trucks need to have a wide radius to turn to get in there anything above ground well you might as well put up a concrete block wall for a frame of reference in our software that we use to model that truck coming in on a regular wd67 which is 73.5 feet it's turning radius and the software limits out at 45 feet so just at when you're it sounds like you're on google earth quite a bit so when you i'm an expert it's amazing how well that tool is it is you can get and get an idea of how wide that is i can't remember off hand on my larger truck but yeah i mean you don't want signage isn't the answer in this application i think striking is probably one of the another alternatives that could help is that going to solve the problem you know i mean to shawn's point the 32 feet you go by those driveways and you see dead grass on on the side i mean the wheels are coming off of that driveway so that that's a that's a difficult thing uh but to answer your questions okay thank you well like kind of to you sorry if i may if i may please do your point earlier is there a lot of this isn't like a restaurant where people are coming in and out on a parking lot i can't imagine if i was coming there i wouldn't park across the street to walk across the street in my in my in my you know car i'd probably go over there so i don't know that there's a ton of you know what i mean traffic coming in out of this parking lot well that's a big concern well i i i understand what public safety is trying to say i i get it i understand the issue of consistency with driveway cuts yes for everybody else okay but is is is is limiting the driveway cut on the south side to 70 you know to 35 feet consistent with the fact that the there is no driveway cut on the north side right i think that's this picture you can kind of see it it's like well yeah i mean well is that it yeah yeah yeah and i don't know what that distance is i forgot that there's this little grass area um but yeah median but it it's got to be pretty close i mean if you take this distance and look at it compare it from this distance to this distance if that's not within five feet yeah yeah yes i just want to say i understand your frustration related to some of the the wetland issues that have been brought up i've had the city out at my property telling me that the water runs a certain way that like when you live there and you see it every day it doesn't run the way that they say that it runs and so like i get the frustration there and i would just say that if we're gonna make a variance anywhere or approve a variance anywhere i would approve the i would consider a motion for approving the variance to the setback because if it is that it's softer and it's going to take more disruption of soil just the and and the only reason that anyone has ever been able to give is like a uniformity this is an opportunity where we have it to say that the makeup of the land is softer in the south and so it could be a condition in which we could make uh variants do we have planned sidewalks running through it where we would need it to be set back further in an interim use just a second while i got this on my in my brain in interim use if we allow [Music] a variance for a setback and the use changes the interim use is now no longer in effect does the setback remain in place regardless of what goes in the property that's afterwards hard it would have been so nice if the answer was oh no when everything's off the table it's got to go back to what it is i know that's super like i get where you're going with that but i think we also have to do a due diligence to look at the applicant that's in front of us requesting the variants instead of like future use but well again there are other vacant lots on that street okay and and what you grant here could be very similar to the lot right next door i don't know how much more different we can make them they're right there so you know you you grant it for one you'll probably you probably are going to get pressured to grant for the next one you're independent of what the staff you know they could they could say the same thing next time but if i'm the landowner next door i may just argue that point i i get it but i just i also feel the frustration when someone when when you when you know your ground you know your soil you know how it works right and so trying to stay under this one acre right and now if you have to add a bunch of material does that count as does that impact this one acre thing so at any rate so the whole thing was brought up originally is we're the only business i couldn't put up a fence and had outside storage just attached to the existing building i wouldn't have been worried about all this stuff but because i have 75th running between my two properties i can't do that which could make it unique from other lots on this was this was the south lot bought at the time the north law was bought so the south lot was bought afterwards so i thought it was about officially it was 94. they paid them off in 2005 and they transferred the title our 2004 they transferred the title over but the purchase agreement was made in 1992 yeah well i mean it's not the first time you know companies have to buy you know properties split by roads and and natural sources that so that was the recommendation of mr president schultz you said you're unique in that you have two properties and 75th runs between it so you can use that as a reason for getting ovarians that was his suggestion so that plans to like i understand you're saying it's now for the next owner has that same variance and then you set the precedence for the next piece of the next star the next person i start now they have the same opportunity to get the variances i i get what you're saying i do but a unique distinction because each variance is is looked at individually it's not when you make one variance everybody gets the same grants there's got to be uniqueness about it may i also ask about what percentage of your business is semis bigger commercial center we do a retail business but 60 of my business is commercial i would agree with that yes mr lynchman i just want to be clear is this application for uh an iup or is it uh for a conditional use permit because you know iup the i means interim and interim means according to our code a brief period and yet everything i've heard so far this seems to me to be a cup am i what am i missing on this why is this an iup to begin with because it's not mr chair um commissioner when the council was trying to find a solution for this site as we've talked about i i think it's far longer than four and a half years i think since i started at the city in 2004 it's been an issue trying to resolve the issues on west side um but the council wanted to create a solution that was very tailored to this particular user that intentionally that if west side went away didn't want to have somebody else that would have the right to do this because this is not great for the city this doesn't create a lot of tax base to have outside storage as a principal use it's not generally ideal but the council wanted to make sure we had a solution that we could tailor to west side and then make it only subject to this business so it would go away so they wanted to make it go away rather than run with the land and that's why they wanted to make it an iup may i ask then under that same kind of thinking since this is only a parking lot on the south side ideally no one in the future if west side tire sells is going to purchase just a parking lot and keep it as a parking lot i mean maybe but if they were to rebuild at the rebuilding process with that trigger coming into compliance with a variance no so the variance wow yeah so that that's i think the issue that we're struggling with is someone that comes in at a later point would be would have the ability to keep the parking lot there even if the use is completely different even if it's like a another industrial use and trying to think i can't think of anything in my head i apologize i'm thinking of like an office of some sort um and so that and i think that's that is the concern is there a sunset clause and i'm not making that word up i'm pretty sure we talked about that one of these several meetings we've had um is that maybe i'm way out of line for the interim use permit there's a sunset clock so basically if west side were to change locations and no longer be there then the use as a parking lot alone would not be allowed but the setback for the parking lot would run with the land okay i difficult situation but let's let's maybe start thinking about our time here and moving on we're we're only on item two um so we got a long road ahead of us here but uh does anybody have an idea what they want to do i'll start leading westside is a good a good community business i get all my tires done they do an excellent job they they they participate in a lot of our city functions so is it in the city's best interest to try to make this work absolutely under the circumstances i'm willing to approve the variance for the curb cut okay um [Music] i i i'm not i am not 100 there on the setback though again i think staff makes a great argument that there's nothing unique about this site i'm sorry that that there's a low piece of of the site i'm sorry that you know it it i just under under the under the conditions that you have to show i i believe that staff has made an argument and i believe in that that is that is something that um i i'm not there to to disagree with them for denial on that and i'm fully in support of their uh recommendation to um uh to a prove the resolution for the site plan and the interim use permit so [Music] if if i'm there for approving a and c but i'm just not there on b now being that i'm on the border there um i would hope that that that at least um councilor varenkamp and any of our other city councilors again depending upon what they say you know the rest of the the commission feels um you know that is something that if you guys want to make it work you're gonna make it work uh i'm i'm a gray area there okay so that's that's where i mean anybody else a shame that the variance for accommodating the small business would for the setback i think that you know if the only reason is well it it just feels it feels um i don't know i can't find the right word because it's 10 30. but to have it to have it be restricted because of like the potential that it would carry with but they've been there since before 94. i would think that i'm maybe more than gray on allowing a setback variance i know that in the future that might change for that one business that comes in there but uh it is a unique distinction so i would say i mean i would be willing to go even farther but if you're making a motion for uh well we we got three resolutions you know to to to vote for so we can vote independently and again if you can you know if three of us vote to recommend yes or no and there's two against it you know again it it shows a gray area for each of us collectively or for the commission collectively and and that's what's important i think to the city council they're not that we all have to agree sure but but i think you know again maybe we need to move on to taking you know each one like you know a is is everybody in agreement to recommend approval of the site plan and interim use permit however though i think that one though again i would agree with the applicant i don't know necessarily know that it serves a constructive purpose to take out the gravel on the easement uh there is a fence there that will limit the outward expansion of it if it's just another cost if they want to take it out and put it in their thing i don't care but to make it a requirement i think maybe oversteps you know really what is necessary for the applicant anybody else on on item a and i'm looking on page 10 of the report i could just comment for sir i just want to uh compliment you and congratulate you you know being growing too fast is a good problem to have so congratulations on having a successful uh business staff thank you for explaining why this is an iup instead of a cup i i just can't buy into the one set of rules for one business and not for anyone else the law should be equally applied to everyone so i i don't agree uh that this should be uh an iup i think it's unfair to every other person in the past and in the future to to make an application so i i i can't support this okay so we have a we have a a and we have an a on a i i would i i i i'm newer too to continue corporates for six years but it sounds like the city council's already weighed i mean given suggestions with the iep and all this stuff like there's been an enormous amount of uh put into this so i would i would well i would agree with you know anything that goes on for years and when it changes when you get a different city council a different mayor and whatnot well i'd say the political winds can shift real fast and i think we've seen how that can affect some projects that are in the pipeline i won't name them but we've certainly seen the effects that they can have on whether or not they're you know approved or not or you know recommendations and things like that so all right um jim uh i think that uh after hearing what percentage of your business is actually trucks larger vehicles i think that that um you know somewhere in this this booklet was also the fact that uh other businesses around there do accept semis uh you know i think satellite is down there and and some of the other businesses but their main 60 percent of their business is not necessarily devoted to fixing tires on semis and i think that at some point variances or iups or or whatever decisions are made need to take into account the type of business that it is and uh so i would be in favor of of acknowledging that there are very few businesses if any other business in town has that type of traffic of larger vehicles so i would be in support of it in support of a yes okay then since you hit on it what about c would you recommend approval i would go through item c i would approve it but but put in a couple of crosswalks crosswalk would be good okay that's a that's a great ad okay yeah as well i don't know if i specifically said that you would go with approving a and c a and c so much so that you would make a motion well i don't know if you didn't really well i i'm just you know again i'm trying to get us to the end line here they do it i thought that emotion would get us to the end line like i thought emotion would get us there and we'd be able but see but well yeah but but hearing that yeah but hearing what jim just said is something that would have to be added to that okay so i want to give you all you know one last shot to say what you're thinking what what you would change what you would accept what you won't so gotcha yep so you are you are a yes on a yes and um and c okay it does anybody have any specific changes yes natalie may i ask a quick question of so then this curb cut variance does that variance go with the next property so if the whole hang up is like if we make this variance for this one thing and it follows to the next business then why are we not just making the the okay i guess you're saying that the hard way i mean i mean if if all of a sudden it's going to become a you know a nail salon yep they probably don't need a 72 foot wide curb cut now and and you know maybe it goes away someday when they come and reconstruct the state the the the street you know maybe it goes away then when they put in full curb and gutter but ultimately the same thing could be said about every variance you could say well it might go away with the next business so if that's you know i yeah who's got the crystal ball this week i just don't know if another business would need a 72 foot but they might go oh i could i don't have to have the 50 foot setback that that's where i could see a little bit we go plus they kind of and it's i don't know they would have a 70 i don't know this is a little weird because if you didn't do anything you already have it the lot is already a 72 foot wide i know but coming into compliance requires it requires curve and and those requirements per the code have a limitation on the width of that or with that it's very out of compliance not just the iep for storage i see there again i think as jim said there is a lot of there there are a number of things are out of compliance hence why this has probably taken so long to to get through this this system and several councils and whatnot to get to this point so all right um all right so um on the on the recommendation to the council to approve the curb cut variants how can we put in their language to address the issues of either through as the engineer said the surmountable [Music] that we got to go to the next level other you know straight out just from having nothing there's got to be something to help that process and does not restrict their ability to get the trucks in and out is that fair can you guys add that in yeah i mean we don't have a motion on the table but if ultimately you move to recommend approval of the curb cut variance you should say i think you've said because you think that they're the only ones that have semis that need to use a wider one so it's unique and then you want to add some condition about painting or striping it with the belief that that will somehow allow them to more safely access at a 72 foot wide curb cut correct correct yep if that's your motion i think we can draft something okay probably not the best to try to draft language at 10 that's 45 motion i think we can draft something before someone make one okay um all right let's why don't we why don't we just right now then take a let's let's take a uh do i have a motion to recommend approval of the curb cut variants um that's the setback okay so this is the um all right so the the resolution in front of us is titled denying a variance application west side for has requested approval and the planning commission reviewed and therefore [Music] we are recommending denial uh but but we want to recommend approval is that is that where we're at because that's the motion not me the resolution i know but yeah the the resolutions for the variances are both for denial so you will have to make a motion with findings and any conditions okay so we'll craft that between now and the council meeting okay language all right are we good to go on a vote yeah yes do you need any more clarity for well i think position an actual motion in a second and then no i know before okay yes all right do i have a motion to recommend approval of the driveway cut for a west side tire i'll make that motion a second all right all those in favor say aye i opposed nay okay lanternman is opposed okay okay uh on the issue then of the um let's get item a because i think we're we might all be in agreement for that uh approval of a relate of a resolution proven the site plan and interim use permit again with the exception of of of uh commissioner lanterman does anybody have any changes for that okay um and my only parting comments again that is a lengthy um resolution um what did i see there was um african a six sorry folks i just want to make sure that we get this right and that we're clear on what we're doing so this resolution is four pages in length all right so think back to our our discussion um in this resolution where um kendra can you help me where was the landscaping on the front um well it's in a couple of places item four the interim use permit is granted um uh under an item number four and then under four um there's a screening condition in g but the landscaping itself about the spacing is under condition 12 on page 3. mr chair yes sir i'm on a plane at 7 30 in the morning i'm gonna give myself another three or four minutes and i'm gonna go okay [Music] okay is there anything here that anybody wishes are we all comfortable with the landscape requirement and the fencing screening okay um okay again i would like to recommend under seven uh that we eliminate i don't know kendra if it would be just better to just eliminate seven uh 7b the temporary equipment storage area must be removed from this area oh delete 7a if you want to okay let's do are we all comfortable with deleting a yeah all right let's delete a under item seven um [Music] anything else okay i think everything else was pretty straightforward all right uh do i have a motion to recommend approval of the interim use permit and site plan application i'll make that motion all seconded all right all those in favor say aye aye opposed nay okay uh one all right all right and last but not l uh least is the um the front yard setback variants um you know what this is really an issue i think best left to the city council we hit we have to do it but instead of trying to perfect it where we can get the most votes to [Music] you know leave a recommendation uh in a majority i'm willing to well it one way or the other i suppose um if there's not any changes or anything like that let's just do a straight up vote and let the city council make the you know i think we all have a lot of gray areas here um so um at this point um we would we would then for simplicity's sake at this point we would uh be in recommending denial of this variance to the city council and and again let the let the city council deal with it even if it's a three to two does anybody gonna carry are you gonna are you gonna put a motion on the table for that i'm asking for a motion i'll make a motion to deny okay is there a second all right i'll second it okay all right so um all those in favor of recommending denial of the variance for the front yard setback say i i you got you folks opposed opposed yes and abstain yes abstain okay there that'll show them lots of confusion they can sort it out okay so we got two yays one nay and two abstains okay good luck with that one guys all right i i hope that maybe this this ultimately works out better for your situation and um [Music] and we we certainly again i think everybody knows how much we appreciate you being a member of our community um and we're all trying to do the right thing and and make sure that isn't that clear everything still works and this was at the end you don't have yourself all right i apologize for the time so thank you very much uh at this point do we want to take a break well before we take a break these folks were here for a public comment related to the northeast district design guidelines but we were doing the public comment opportunity before each item can we just let them have their time yes absolutely i thought they left no they're talking you're still out there oh well maybe we could do that so why don't we take a break we'll be back at the at 11 o'clock okay okay do we need a seven minute break uh no maybe just a couple of all right let's just i don't really care at this point i gotta get going too i'm flying his my plane i [Music]