This transcript reflects a North St. Paul City Council Workshop. Please note that while your provided list identifies Jason Zimmerman as Finance Director, the transcript explicitly identifies the speaker as **Dan Winnick**. Additionally, the roll call includes **Council Member Cole** and **Council Member Wong**, who were not on your initial list but are clearly present in the session. [00:00] **Mayor John Monge:** Can you give us a thumbs up? All right, call the workshop to order at 5:15. Roll call, please. [00:05] **City Staff:** Council Member Cole? [00:06] **Council Member Cole:** Here. [00:07] **City Staff:** Council Member Schweer? [00:08] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** Here. [00:09] **City Staff:** Council Member Wong? [00:10] **Council Member Wong:** Here. [00:11] **City Staff:** Council Member Norby? [00:12] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** Here. [00:13] **City Staff:** Mayor Monge? [00:14] **Mayor John Monge:** Here. Thank you very much. All right, can I get a motion to adopt the agenda, please? [00:18] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** So moved. [00:19] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** Second. [00:20] **Mayor John Monge:** Council Member Schweer moves, second Council Member Norby. All those in favor say Aye. [00:23] **All Council Members:** Aye. [00:24] **Mayor John Monge:** Thank you. Thank you. [00:25] **City Manager Brian Frandle:** Thank you, Mayor. Topics tonight are all going to be on the community center. First up is Community Center Next Steps, and we have Finance Director Mr. Winnick that's going to speak to this. [00:35] **Finance Director Dan Winnick:** Mayor, Council members, thank you very much for allowing me to speak on the community center next steps. We're going to continue where we were at our last workshop. This next slide kind of shows you what we had talked about as some of our next steps as far as what we're going to gather, present, and discuss. The first one was the clarification and/or the modifications of the grant terms, and we had an individual here from DEED last workshop, so we've kind of covered that topic. Tonight, what is being highlighted is we're going to talk about the services and importance of a library in North St. Paul. We're fortunate enough to have Pang Yang here, who’s the Deputy Director of the Ramsey County Libraries, to give a presentation. I think you'll find it very informative. Then we'll move on to interest in partnerships at the community center. We have a draft of an RFI; we want to get your comments and viewpoints before we end up advertising and publishing that out on the street to find out what interest there is in any partnership opportunities for the community center. In the future, we'll be looking closer at the current and future lease options for the library. Just as a reminder, the current lease that we have with the library in its current space runs for 20 years, from 2010 to 2030. We'll get into more depth on some possibilities for options for the library. Then we will have to develop an RFP for community engagement services. That was an important component that the City Council has expressed—that they want to have a lot of community engagement. We need to work on getting somebody to assist us in that process so we can hold some evening meetings at different nights and times so we can get the public out and hear their interest in the community center and what services they feel will be beneficial for them, allowing you, the City Council, to be able to make a more informed decision. We've scratched off interest in selling the community center and costs to vacate the community center—that was the decision of the City Council. Then we will be talking eventually about the services that'll be provided. A lot of that will come from our community engagement and from what we get back from the RFI as far as partnerships. Once we've gotten to that level of information, then we can start to generate some costs to operate the community center now and into the future, and then we can start running some financial scenarios and potential impacts to help you make your final decision. With that, we're going to move right on now to the presentation from Pang Yang. Again, she is a Deputy Director for the Ramsey County Libraries. [03:50] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** Dan, to be clear on that, when you said to vacate or to sell, we said at that time we wanted to look forward as far as—I think that's what was said, correct? As far as ruling... we want to look forward to other options. So did you say that was off the table? Is that what you said the way you worded it? [04:10] **Dan Winnick:** Yes, that was my understanding from the last City Council workshop, that there wasn't the interest in doing that. We had proposed looking at pursuing the other options first. [04:20] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** Exactly, yeah. That's what I heard. I just didn't know if it went that far. Thank you. [04:25] **Dan Winnick:** So with that, Pang, I will stop sharing. Welcome. [04:30] **Pang Yang (Ramsey County Library):** Hi everyone, nice to meet you all. I'm very happy and excited to be here. A little bit about me while I pull up my slide here: my name is Pang Yang, I am Ramsey County Library’s Deputy Director and acting department head. I grew up in libraries... I have 20 years of experience working in libraries. The last three years in Ramsey County Library, and prior to that, I worked about 17 years for the St. Paul Public Library system, managing the Arlington Hills Library, which is also a joined facility with a rec center. Today we are talking about Ramsey County Library... we have seven facilities. The library in North St. Paul is one of our tiny but mighty libraries in our system. [Presentation continues detailing strategic priorities, the Social Vulnerability Index (SVI) of North St. Paul, and specific usage statistics.] In 2023, we made 763 new library cards in North St. Paul. We had almost 53,000 visits... over 90,000 items checked out. [Details youth programs, partnerships with MetroFlex, and state park pass distribution.] That is the end of my presentation, just wanting to talk very briefly about libraries and what we do. Happy to answer any questions. [12:10] **Mayor John Monge:** Thank you very much, I really appreciate your presentation. The slide that you said there's 53,000 visits—that was just for the one year and that was just for the North St. Paul branch? [12:20] **Pang Yang:** Correct. [12:21] **Mayor John Monge:** How do you define a visit? [12:22] **Pang Yang:** A visit is an individual who walks into the facility. We have a little door counter. [12:25] **Mayor John Monge:** Okay. Well, I'm honestly surprised by that. That's—quick math is we're averaging 30 people an hour that you're open. That's amazing. [12:35] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** Is that counter on going into the library or into the building? [12:38] **Pang Yang:** Into the library. The library door. [12:40] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** Thank you for your presentation. Can you speak a little bit to some of the youth programming that is offered? [12:45] **Pang Yang:** Sure. We have a variety of youth programming... weekly story times, summer reading programs... we contract with jugglers, people who bring in snakes... engaging the young people has always been a priority. [13:40] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** How does our 35 hours compared to the other libraries as far as being open? [13:45] **Pang Yang:** North St. Paul is open 35 hours, as well as Mounds View. Mounds View is the only other library that's open with limited hours. New Brighton and White Bear Lake are open about five or six more hours... and our Regional libraries are open about 53 hours, seven days a week. [14:15] **Council Member Wong:** Can you speak a little bit to the park pass? [14:18] **Pang Yang:** The state park pass... we partner with state parks. You can check it out for seven days so you don't have to pay for admission for the entrance for your vehicle. [14:40] **Council Member Wong:** You said we're the only one that has that? [14:42] **Pang Yang:** North St. Paul is the only library in Suburban Ramsey County that has it. [15:10] **Council Member Wong:** And we qualify for that because of the income level? [15:12] **Pang Yang:** Yes, there is the income threshold that the state parks require us to be under, and the city of North St. Paul is the only city that qualified for that. [15:25] **Council Member Dave Mckenzie:** Are there any limitations or opportunities in the near future that you feel would be a priority for the libraries? [15:35] **Pang Yang:** [Discusses helping people seek prosperity, digital literacy, and the need for computer access outside of library hours.] [17:25] **Mayor John Monge:** 3,200 square feet, you said the library is about it. How does that fit for you? Is it too small, too big? Where does that look if you were looking at a space... because you mentioned all these meeting rooms, and it doesn't sound like 3,200 feet is enough for that, right? [17:45] **Pang Yang:** [Discusses the need for more study rooms and private spaces.] Potentially like 5,000 square feet would likely satisfy some of the needs. [18:45] **Mayor John Monge:** Well, right now of course with the grant we have, it's the remodeling. So if we wanted to partner and get more space, that's something we need to discuss because if we're going forward with the remodel, then it's a good time to understand the needs. [19:15] **Mayor John Monge:** As far as any issues when it comes to crowd control or security or anything like that... is there any security in libraries or has everything been good? [19:30] **Pang Yang:** Right now we don't have any significant concerns for the North St. Paul Library... no significant security concern right now. [19:55] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** Well, I'd like to thank you for your presentation. The demographics were very eye-opening to me. To understand how many people walk through your door a day is pretty impressive. My girls and I go in there, and it is pretty small and intimate. [20:15] **Council Member Cole:** I just wanted to thank you for coming. This was—the time and energy you put into the presentation... I learned a lot. You're more than books. You are a part of the community. [20:30] **Dan Winnick:** I would like for Pang to talk a little bit about some of the other partnerships... she mentioned social workers and Workforce Solutions. Ramsey County has a lot of programs, and the library is a vehicle for them. It’s a decentralized model now. Can you touch base on that? [20:55] **Pang Yang:** [Explains how libraries are unintimidating spaces for caseworkers and clients compared to government buildings downtown.] [22:00] **Mayor John Monge:** Any other questions for Pang? Pang, I thank you very much. Excellent job. [22:10] **Dan Winnick:** [Pulls up slides again.] I'm very grateful that Pang Yang could be here tonight. As a Ramsey County employee for many years, I think we all know the history... the County sold the original building years ago. [22:30] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** I was just going to say, we've been getting emails... the North St. Paul library was not North St. Paul's building. I get asked "Why did you sell that?" It was a County building. The County sold it. Nothing to do with us. I just want to get that out there. [22:45] **Dan Winnick:** That's correct. And North St. Paul saw the value and that's how it ended up in the Community Center. They are in a 20-year lease. [Discusses the lease history and the lack of a fully executed original document.] We will talk more in future meetings about the lease and options. [24:35] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** I if you don't mind clarifying one point... you just said that we're going to be discussing the lease of the library in a future meeting? [24:45] **Dan Winnick:** Yes. Part of it is going to be the structure. The current lease runs from 2010 to 2030... but we certainly can examine that a little bit more. [Moves on to the Request for Interest (RFI) draft.] We are seeking City Council’s input on this RFI to find out what type of interest there is from individuals or organizations for the space. [Reads from the draft objectives.] [28:15] **Council Member Cole:** Overall, I very much like it. I really appreciate the work you put into it. If we go forward with the Community Center, we've talked about using the grants for refurbishment. In your summary, you talk about the grants being used for program development. Is program development on the table for the grants? If not, are we being misleading in the summary for this RFI? [28:50] **Dan Winnick:** Well, I think as far as program development, it is more of a spatial component. If a partner wanted 5,000 square feet, we would have to remove walls. That’s an eligible cost. But we want to find out if they need additional city resources like staffing. We'll re-review that language to make sure it's clear. I have to give credit where it's due; our Community Development Director, Brandy Howe, is the one who wrote this. [29:55] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** I'd be interested to see if we could ask for a short report or an annual report on their organization for accountability. And I would be interested to understand a little bit more about the populations they've worked with in the past. [30:15] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** I appreciate the document laying everything out. [30:25] **Council Member Wong:** Was there anything added regarding other facilities that these organizations have used in the past? For example, if a theater group used Maplewood and Maplewood didn't want them anymore—could we ask for references on past space rentals? [30:55] **Dan Winnick:** Good point. [31:00] **Council Member Cassidy Schweer:** I'd be interested to also know about what kind of level of flexibility they may have in their programming... if they can adapt to our different demographics. [31:25] **Dan Winnick:** Would City Council like to see the final version before it goes out, or should we make adjustments and get it out? [31:35] **Mayor John Monge:** Get it out. Thank you. [31:40] **Council Member Cole:** Is the language in this RFI standard and customary? We're asking them what they're willing to pay—is that standard for an RFI or are we just looking for interest? [31:55] **Dan Winnick:** Brandy found a template that was utilized. We added questions about potential revenue because we heard that loud and clear from Council—you want to know what the revenue stream would be. [32:20] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** I'm reading here about on-site meetings to tour the building... are we not going to be flexible on those dates? [32:35] **Dan Winnick:** We certainly can be. We just picked a date because of limited resources, but we can say "or you can schedule something." [33:00] **Council Member Cole:** I heard a lot of parameters being added. Are we soliciting for interest or are we picking somebody? I just want to make sure we aren't disallowing someone because they don't have one or two things. I saw we took the top of the funnel and narrowed it dramatically before we've had a chance to get the document out there. [33:45] **Dan Winnick:** It’s not to exclude anyone. We'll bring all information back to Council. [34:10] **Mayor John Monge:** To Dan's point, I think we also need to have in there that they need to call to schedule tours. We don't want people walking in the library saying "Hey, we're here to look at space." [34:30] **Council Member Wong:** If I can make a suggestion regarding the advertisement plan, can we expand to other school districts or charter schools? Pang mentioned North MetroFlex. [35:05] **Council Member Jason Nordby:** And to piggyback on that—the gentleman that spoke last time from Woodbury, CSI? I think he provided staff his contact info. I would like us to reach out to him. [35:35] **Council Member Wong:** One more—I would think about sharing this with culturally specific magazines or cultural associations. [36:00] **Mayor John Monge:** All right, how about we give a few minutes for public comment. One minute per person. [36:15] **Elaine Barton (Public):** Elaine Barton, 2021 Burke Avenue East. Could we get the library presentation into the minutes? Also, what does it cost to operate this library currently? Regarding the RFI, how is it going to be published in the Tribune? Is there a way to create a condensed version for suburban papers? I think it should be expanded to a larger audience. [37:50] **Mayor John Monge:** To your point, I wanted to answer one thing. Last year the Maplewood library was closed for remodeling, so that could have been a factor in the high visit numbers here. [38:10] **Unidentified Resident (Veteran):** You mentions veterans in every one of your printings. As a recently certified 100% disabled veteran, I want to say—what are you going to be offering? I called the American Legion and VFW and asked what they need from the city, and they said they haven't got a clue. Why haven't you included those service representatives in your mailing list for this RFI? [39:05] **Mayor John Monge:** Thank you. It is 6:30. Can I call for adjournment? [39:10] **Council Member Cole:** So moved. [39:11] **Council Member Wong:** Second. [39:12] **Mayor John Monge:** All those in favor say Aye. [39:13] **All Council Members:** Aye. [39:14] **Mayor John Monge:** Thank you. Give us five minutes to prepare for the regular meeting. Thank you.