for it stands one nation indivisible and Justice all okay um the first item on the agenda is approval of the regular agenda we have some additions and amendments so yes Mr Mayor um could we remove number eight uh number eight is the World Police Station update uh John mcnamer fell ill um but he will be able to be here at the next meeting to give that update okay and then I was advised by the planning director that we need to switch items 9 and 10 around we need to um have the sanitary sore feasibility study presentation first before the comp plan study as they both go hand in hand and um instead of holding the resolutions back where we usually have resolutions I'd like to bring those resolutions up at the end of um each uh um public hearing that we're going to discuss tonight so resolution or ordinance so um so for the 2024 we'll have a resolution and then for the tax aat we'll have okay Rick made a motion Bruce made a second any other uh discussion hearing none all in favor say I I hi opposed motion carries all right um next item is the consent agenda um have the items listed there uh does anybody want to pull anything or address anything I see that we had an amendment kind of a explanation of the large assembly on Easter that came after the fact is there anything else otherwise I take a motion to approve so moved is there a second second there's been a motion made by Maggie seconded by Bruce um any other discussion hearing none all in favor sign signify by saying I I I opposed motion carries now the public is invited to be heard on matters not on the agenda so if you're here for any of the public hearings this is separate so if somebody wants to address the council for anything that's not on the agenda um you can come up to the podium state your name and address and you're limited to five minutes to address the council hi hi hi I'm Rachel Hal I'm at 324 Lincoln Avenue North okay um um and I want like to talk about the sidewalk that's being put in on our street um I think I emailed several of you um earlier in the week or maybe it was later last week um and this concern is shared by many of our neighbors as well um on August 7th my husband and I attended a neighborhood meeting in this room hosted by SE the city engineer and the city administrator um we attended this meeting under the impression that we could not only gain information relevant to our properties um but that we could voice our concerns and that our concerns would be genuinely listened to and this was not the case we were told that in addition to the improvements to sewer water and streets we would be getting a sidewalk that has historically not existed in our neighborhood that was um has been in existence since the 50s and that the property owners are fully responsible for all repairs and maintenance of the sidewalk whether we want it or not um most of the residents in attendance at this meeting including myself and my husband did not know that the city was not responsible for the sidewalks um my husband and I like many of our neighbors are concerned uh we were concerned in Outrage that we were not consulted in any of the planning for this as it directly affects us as the property owners um in fact we were told repeatedly that we did not not own this portion of our property uh and that's the wording that they use that we did not own it that it belonged to the city and that the city could do whatever they deemed necessary uh our concerns fell on deaf ears as we were told that a city ordinance mandated sidewalks for quote all New Roads end quote many of us were disheartened to learn that none of the concerns we raised were reflected in reports to our elected City officials my husband and I along with many of our neighbors purposely chose properties on this street because we could not maintain a sidewalk we are frequently gone in the winter visiting family and cannot properly remove snow or ice while we are away and furthermore we're not in a financial situation where we could contract to have this done another woman on our street is a single mother who works long hours also does not have time or financial resources to properly care for a sidewalk there's many other stories like this along our street um it is an old neighborhood um and it's not large houses it's smaller properties we're not unreasonable and we understand that some sidewalks are necessary for safety such as on school routes and along busy roads neither of which describe Lincoln Avenue North actually in the comprehensive plan that you will be voting on tonight Lincoln Avenue North is not even identified as a sidewalk cap on the map on page 23 so you'll see in that map the northernmost end of our street does not connect to any major road does not connect to any school walkway does not connect to any Trail or anything like that it ends at another Street another parallel Street that's a neighborhood street we are asking Council to reconsider the addition of a sidewalk on Lincoln Avenue North and to re-evaluate the city ordinance mandating a sidewalk on all city streets thanks thank you thank you Rachel K is there a city ordinance because when I looked at the ordinances today I only saw you know the removal of snow and ice and any necessary repairs is it perhaps in the current comprehensive P plan um obviously we have a new comprehensive plan coming up so yes we have nothing in the city Ordnance requiring sidewalks on um anything but a one side of New Roads at this point we'll talk later tonight about new developments and looking at both sides of the roads but existing uh roads we do not have anything in our Cod that requires a sidewalk on even one side of those but we do have the mobility map in the upcoming comp plan which talks about major thorough fares and routes um and then U we have the old sidewalk um gaps and um linkages map which does include some areas to make better connections to parks and Trails But ultimately it decision falls in the council to include them or not with Street Recons okay so then in regards to Lincoln Avenue itself um is that considered a major thoroughfare or I I understand that there's a lot of language in our um per perhaps our new comp plan and a survey that was done to make new pra more walkability right thus the need for sidewalks um correct not only for the walkability but for all the safety issues of of children walking um and and bike riding as well as any pedestrian so um any possibility of making an exception that would make sense uh I know that we've got the 2025 Street project plan um approval coming up here and we need to go out to bid um so that would be uh a major consideration for the bid yeah obviously um within the new comp plan we have a consideration for um basically complete streets that would require looking at everything from automobile traffic to walking to biking to you know other mods of Transportation so that that is what is in the new comp plan so basically we will look at it with any new Street uh reconstruction work or any new Street and determine at that point if if it's a area that should have that but I can tell you that in that gaps map no I don't believe Lincoln is included in uh one of the required areas for a sidewalk okay thank you for that is there anybody else here that wants to speak about a sidewalk on Lincoln Avenue in particular um you know I I appreciate your voice I do um and I haven't been uh personally contacted I don't know if anyone else on Council has been contacted about uh the sidewalks in the 2025 Street project I know that there was that meeting on August um to talk about the plan so just kind of opening it up if there's any additional comment if I may sorry to interrupt just quick um after that meeting on August 7th because it did feel like when we all left the decisions were made and so none of the concerns we raised we didn't think were going to be addressed anyway and so a lot of the residents are um they don't feel like their voice is going to be heard if they come back again and say anything so that's what I'm hearing from them do you know about how many people were at that meeting I I didn't count but I know from the reports I think that se gave about a quarter of our neighborhood showed up and it was full I mean we had we had Standing Room in the back actually was more full than it is tonight I feel like so there was quite a few of us there was that the neighborhood meeting or the public hearing that was the neighborhood meeting yeah so August 7th we held a public hearing Mee and Chris did um and then uh following council meeting we brought that to the council for to order the order the project and that's when at that time you guys heard from No 10 residents uh concerns about sidewalks you know trees assessments stuff like that and that at that time is when you guys ordered the project to move forward we did talk about at that time and I'm not sure if you weren't here then at August 7th wasn't there a petition 20 some names that was presented that's part of the okay and then that isn't a state aid Road right Lincoln avue North is not a state a road okay and for some reason I want to say there was was there any state mandate for like Ada stuff that required a sidewalk or not on Lincoln no not on Lincoln nope okay all right did we discuss that I could have swore that there was something about the Ada I think that requirements comply with Ada anytime you put a sidewalk in you have to meet ADA compliance okay but they weren't mandated the state doesn't mandate that a sidewalk has to go in or anything for no it was just decided years ago that the council wanted to make new PR a walkable City so that's um what we have been doing since then well we've had I mean I think overall that's a kind of a good plan to have but there has been other instances I know what is it 8th Street Circle off of 10th Street there that is just a short called us act and we talked about putting in it didn't really seem to make sense to put a sidewalk in there and whatnot so we have yeah so we have discussed that before and I'm just wondering if maybe that ordinance isn't too broad that there is I mean if this is or not ordinance but the overall plan the walkability yeah the comp plan like Ken says it's for new streets only it's not for reconstruction um that a sidewalk has to be put in that is something that we had the council has decided to go above that and have a sidewalk put in on streets that that we're doing recon projects on what was it that Kade Willcox used to refer to uh those first years that I was on the council and that I thought there was a council directive that well at that time new pra was going to try to become this walkable yeah we had this discussion last year pretty much this meeting almost exactly that um the council at that time or uh asked staff and the engineer to make the city of New pra a walkable uh walkwell City so moving forward when we do projects that we need to look at all aspects of traffic uh cars Public Safety all all items which we always did but we went above and beyond and added sidewalks to that so Matt what I feel I feel like that we're go having a sidewalk to Nowhere or Bridge to Nowhere um is and I'm having trouble picturing right where this is are we just talking all the entire length of the street are we just talking one end that doesn't hook up with any other no it's hooked up it's going to be hooked up to a sidewalk on Fifth Street that also goes to those apartments off of Columbus and then it's also heading east where for someone that used to live in that neighborhood years ago that that area is highly used for getting to the north side park that is three four blocks away so yeah you know the last two years we've been in this development Sunrise all the way to persy now and we put every street in that area has a sidewalk um so next year's project again uh finishing off um Lincoln First Street and Second Street finishing those areas off we're actually adding sidewalk to all those streets just like we have for the last two years and Beyond so we heard from about a quarter of the people that live on Lincoln Avenue but there are 34s of the people that have may not have an opinion or may want the sidewalk so how how does that decision be made to how do we speak for those people that are not speaking out or they just didn't attend that meeting either it's possible they don't even know what's happening on our street that's entirely possible yeah and that that is not uncommon um so it's like how how is it our Council supposed to make a decision well well I you know like we talked about before back in August and and I'm a supporter of sidewalks and I I respect your opinion and your viewpoint on it but I I'm a very opponent of the safety feature and the walkability of the town Lincoln does meet with the the library and it has a partial sidewalk for many years and it never went anywhere but I support it it it's not um it's not just for the benefit or the use of the people that live there it's for the city and the residents of the city to walkable City and and provide safety so we can certainly disagree on that and that's fine so if it's our biggest argument is if it's a benefit for the city then why is the home fully responsible and liable for everything oh you need to come up to the mic our our biggest concern is that if it's a benefit of the city then the why is the homeowner fully responsible for it so uh we are fully responsible for all repairs all maintenance um snow removal ice removal and like I said if we're away it's hard to take care of that so if it's a benefit to the city then the city needs to have a hand in helping to maintain that and ordinance right now does not say that's what happens correct so um we did discuss about visiting the ordinances yes and doing a complete review and rewrite so that is something that we can you know perhaps address um because the ordinance at this point does read that the homeowner is responsible for um any repairs um as far as snow and ice removal if you're unable to do that the city will do it but um there would be a cost to the homeowner I don't know if there's any additional comment from um so I I coming from the staff perspective I'll say that is a very common ordinance for both of those things um every city I have ever worked with I I'm not sure many cities do don't have that exact language so I'm not saying that we can't change it um I'm I'm going to make the assumption when that was originally put in place it was because it's been common practice for a long long time across the entire country quite frankly of how sidewalks are maintained why what is the rationale that the homeowner is responsible for the repair of a sidewalk so if the sidewalk buckles or it cracks or it chips and falls apart I don't quite understand why the homeowner would be responsible for that if the city is the one that installed it yeah I'll be honest I'm not 100% sure said I think most of these have been put in place for for decades as to how that's just kind of how it's always been and so yeah when we look at doing zoning code rewrite we can certainly look at is there a better option for new bre this I I I agree with Magie and on certain points but I think it's a bigger discussion than tonight I agree agree and and um I would like to have this as agenda item at a future meeting because I do agree that the ordinance needs to be looked at okay all right is there anybody else that wants to address the Council on an item not on the agenda state your name and address please an chrisy 305 parishing so I came this evening hoping that I'd get a little more information get some answers I spoke at one of the last meetings again against the sidewalk that's being put in on the or is planned for the east side of persing um again I would remind you that all of the other streets from sunrise to Lincoln are being narrowed uh by 10 ft thus the need for a sidewalk but persing is being narrowed by two feet from 40 feet to 38 feet and again just a reminder there haven't been any safety issues there haven't been any accidents that are documented anywhere so I still question the need for a sidewalk a what a 7 foot sidewalk a 5 foot side uh in 7 ft from the curbing which basically then takes it through the middle of our yards um I propos that if you insist on a sidewalk can it be put behind the curb and I'd love to know if there's if that was discussed if there's any sort of answer there if all of my talking is for not but I'm not alone in this um there hasn't been a neighborhood meeting that I was invited to or or aware of perhaps that was up to me to plan I don't know but I'd like some more answers okay was there a neighborhood meeting so far yes on August 7th we had that neighborhood meeting and then they were notified at that meeting that the council at the next council meeting the council will decide on ordering the uh drawings of the 2025 project so yeah that all all have been relayed to all the residents on this project they've all received letters I didn't rece I can look your address up just to make sure that you're receiving letters right anybody else want to address the Council on anything that's not on the agenda otherwise I'll close this portion um of the meeting and an will address your concern might not be right away tonight but okay we'll include the Persian sidewalk against the curb though too right at that one that's an an yep okay I'm sorry yep okay um the next item up is adopting the assessments for the 2024 Street utility Improvement project Chris city engineer is up uh thank you very much Mr Mayor so I do have uh a short presentation I'm gonna go through on the 20124 streight utility Improvement project so this is the project that uh is pretty well wrapped up I think last week we had the last amount of Paving uh up on Sixth Street Northeast so um just going to go through a few slides here so if you can go to the next one Ken uh the project area on this project included uh lindel Avenue North um lexon Avenue North First Street Northeast Second Street Northeast uh Third Street Northeast uh for full reconstruction a few blocks in each of those each of those streets um First Street Southeast on the south end um also full reconstruction along Sixth Street Northeast um on uh the north block of Sunset Avenue North there was a water main replacement uh uh sanary SE replacement and then uh uh uh repaving of the street so uh we added sidewalk to that block and then one block is Second Street Northeast um on the far south end we also did a more sidewalk extension over by um hiy um on First Street Southeast as well forward through here so uh improvements uh included replacement San sewer sewer Services uh water main water services storm sewer um the full Street section our street section in town is three feet uh deep four inches of black top 8 inches of gravel and two feet of sand um Miss sunset on this one but Sunset Avenue North I just had replacement the pavement and some gravel so we can keep moving through here uh if you're here for the assessment hearing um you would have received a letter like this in the mail basically says this is what our proposed assessment amount is going to be for your property um keep going through here uh so I'm going to go through some of the the project costs in this one um total construction was $ 4,172 that's broken down with a street accounting for just short of $2.3 million storm sewer $456,000 uh sanary sewer 641000 and then water m at $720,000 with uh project related costs which includes uh engineering testing and all those Associated costs at $693,000 just short of 17% of the total construction cost uh for a total project cost of 4,814 181 uh the Project funding on this uh Improvement uh came from a handful of sources uh General Levy which is coming from your property taxes uh user fees for sewer Utility Fund Water Utility Fund stormm St Utility Fund uh assessments to the benefiting properties um and then some Municipal state aid funding from uh mindat on lexon Avenue North uh the funding is split into just generally in these two sources uh neighborhood contribution which would be assessments uh 1, 239,240 about 25% of the project 26% 26% of the project or so uh city-wide contribution which is going to be basically everything but the assessments that's state aid uh General Levy um uh user fees um 74% of the project 3,571 261 again amounting to that 4.8 million overall cost so uh as part of the project we are uh proposing to assess uh the properties along along the way for their benefit um this is allowed through min so statute 429 um this is uh something the city has done on uh every street utility project um over the years uh it grants the city the ability to assess the benefit to the to the properties uh we do have a minimum 20% that we have to to meet and that's the bonded cost on this one we're hitting 25.8% of the total project cost so well above the the the minimum of the bonding uh as far as how we determine the assessments for the project uh we do the street assessments on a unit basis so everyone gets treated the same so internal inside lots are considered one unit for Residential Properties uh Corner properties we look at each side um and look at each of those individually so uh it might be half a unit on one side half in other side making for a full unit uh we do uh not necessarily look at the individual improvements so the size of the driveway um whether has sidewalk whether it has um a 34 foot Street or 38 foot Street the assessment is all the same uh we do this um as a fixed rate versus just a project to project so we do uh estimate the assessment during the feasibility stage typically the fall before the construction occurs and that's used as a a topend um rate so if project costs come in uh low we often can uh reduce those rates to uh as needed but we do not increase it if the project costs come in high this is our assessment policy uh review on this map here so I kind of mentioned this before but uh uh the show is a full reconstruction in the Shaded gray and a millon overlay potential type of improvement on the on the uh diagonal um hatching so inside Lots uh we will look at um their Frontage and if they are uh on a full reconstruction they get set for one full unit full reconstruction um if they are on a corner we would look at each side so uh full reconstruction on one side would be considered a half unit if it was a Mill and overlay on the other side it' be considered a half unit Mill and overlay U there's some properties that would be uh no improvement on that second side we don't have any commercial properties so I'm nicly going to go through that through that um policy on this project uh we do have a handful of improvements on this project that are assessed uh one inch water service in the amount of $3,350 uh sanary sewer service and amount to $2,490 uh full reconstruction $9,100 uh so the typical Street uh typical residential assessment with a full unit of Street sewer and water uh is $15,300 U we do have a residential Mill overlay um item that's on a per unit I guess uh and that's for the north block of sunset so we did the utility work put the street back together uh we assessed that as a millon overlay because that project was um assessed 20 years ago or so when a different utility Improvement occurred so uh this does match the rates for the 2022 and 2023 projects so we have not increased the rates from 2022 um as I mentioned before if we get good bids we're able to uh reduce rates as needed so uh we usually propose a a 5% increase from year to year and that 5% increase did not occur for the 2024 project we can keep going through here um we are at the uh assessment hearing portion of the project we've done neighborhood meetings uh public hearings the feasibility report at the front end so we're kind of getting towards the tail end here of the assessment process uh so if uh uh Council adopts the resolution on the assessment uh that'll start a 30-day uh interest free uh payment period for residents to pay off their assessment without any interest uh after 30 days those assessments would be uh leved to Scott County for the majority of the project or Sur County for the Street Southeast uh interest rate is 4.4 4.94 5% or 15 years and there are options for deferred assessments on Residential Properties for um for hardships for senior citizens for military and and so on so I went through a lot of stuff here I think the next one's going to be bringing to me to questions and hopefully I'm not bring anything too new for moot no just real quick though um if they want if the residents want to deferment or pay it they have they been notified on that process on how to do that yeah so the assessment lettering that went out um notes the um the the hardships portion for deferment so that goes in every letter everyone gets notified that there are options for it um if they wish to do that ium they'll bring it over to Josh um to to process yeah if you remember right we had three of them last year um that applied I have not yet received any calls but we have not formally had the meeting I I had one on a uh over 65 um yeah if you just want to let him get a hold of me we can get them through that process okay and then one that wanted to pay it off completely and I couldn't recall what the time frame was but they didn't recall that they received a letter that said you have 30 days or or once it's approved will it a letter go out saying you can pay it pay the entire assessment at once so we'll do two letters the first letter is just the uh notification of the pending assessment and the invitation to tonight's meeting right and that's got that information as far as being able to pay it off within 30 days the same that was in the letter in that letter yep and then we'll send out that same letter um after Council accepts the resolution of a um basically this is the final assessment so it's more of a reminder for people and do they have to go to the county or can they pay the city so they have until November 20th to come to the city I have talked to probably five people already who are interested in that they just need to come to City Hall um and make that payment and we will basically make note of it so it they can pay they have to pay at least $500 but they can pay any amount over $500 and so they can pay for half or a quarter or full that'd be up to them okay and then we'll just Levy to the county uh whatever portion remains unpaid come uh November 21st okay yeah so if anybody wants to pay their assessment and they do not do it prior to November 20th it's going to be levied to the uh to the respective County um and then after January 1 they can pay off the assessment as well but uh um you're basically your interest rates you're going to get the full Year's interest I guess once once you hit January one okay any other questions to the council before I open it up to public hearing okay um if you want to address the council about the uh assessment and uh here's the public hearing um you have uh three minutes to speak to the council and maybe you'll bring up a question and we'll try to answer that question um in regards to um to what your need is but does anybody want to come up and address the council I open the public hearing now come on up just state your name and address please um Nancy vetel 807 Third Street um I just have a question where did they come up with the 4.94 five interest rate I will let the city administrator explain that he's a little bit better at it because 15 years with this amount you're paying like an extra $6,000 if I did my math correctly so I was just curious where you come up with that so so the city policy for interest rates on assessments is 1.5% over what the city is paying for interest um and the city is paying 3.44 five% on our bond for this and so off the policy we set that interest rate at 1.5% above that okay I just wonder for future things is there a cap that you're going to CU $15,000 for one house you know each house that's a lot of money if there's ever going to be a cap on what you can charge people for stuff like sidewalks they don't want and stuff like that so that's all I had to ask okay thank you anybody else want to address the council only want oh go ahead come on up state your name and address please my name is Nicole and I live on 112 Lexington so say I don't have $155,000 how do you guys get the money does it go into my mortgage payment like how does the county Come and Get It taxes and gets added morgage payment what's that do it increase your monthly mortgage payment by property tax and Scott County will handle that I don't have to do anything right yeah so yeah yeah so Mr Mayor if I will okay sorry they don't have $15,000 I'm just they're going to yep no worries so uh what happens is it's Levy to the county and it's spread out over50 years and so every year the county contacts whoever your mortgage lender is and says hey we're going to need this much for escrow due to this amount that's going to be owed and so it'll get added to that can you can you like decide five years 10 years 15 years so so it's automatically set it 15 years but at any point um after November 20th you'll have to go to the county but if you so you're on Scott County side at any point you can go to the county and pay off any portion your so if you're like hey so say if I don't do anything I just going to if you don't do anything it'll add on to your mortgage payment that's all I needed to know okay thank you you're welcome somebody else hey hello Bruce Meer 37 Lindale yeah I know I communicated to you I think Chris on some of the issues that we saw on what was happened on the street and questions on the sidewalk that we had that was replaced and Chris had mentioned that there was a punch list of things that were going to happen uh we were we came back from vacation and we very surprised that the grass had been in for a month and hadn't been watered and I there's a lot of that that still is going to have to take place and you know I would have thought we have project managers that are on this that someone would have been watching the watering that was going on someone would be monitoring where the step placement and things like that if the steps are on public property because they're in the right away uh who's responsible for that if somebody falls down the steps uh we had a question about whether we need railing on the steps but so that's my concerns okay you do you want to address some these uh just some some generalities uh as far as the punch list goes uh the clich very project we do a punch list we usually like to be a little more ongoing but uh um I know rpr has put together punch list and I've asked him to work with City Public Works to do another review so hopefully we can get through a list of U everything that needs to be addressed in the project I I 100% sure we're going be addressing um grass next year you know we had a a terrible spring for starting construction and then it it just went dry and so opposite direction would have been great getting the rain at the end of the year but uh uh they uh uh we were told to water didn't water as much as they need to um we did push them and they did start getting that done a little bit more um regularly but uh my expectation is that um we're not going to be accepting the turf in the current status at least not project wide maybe some areas but um that maintenance period will likely get extended into next year so um with every project we do include a pay item for over seating which is to be U drill seating in the next year to um kind of uh thicken up the grass if it needs it uh next year we'll probably end up doing that in the spring um so there'll be oversea to kind of address that um as far as um steps on the project there were some steps uh installed they weren't installed anywhere they weren't before with the exceptions of the one on the second in Lindale we did a little bit more extensive uh um stairs there but uh everywhere else that they were installed it was where they were before so I don't think we added anything new on that end but uh um just basically improved what was there so usually access to get to the curb or towards the sidewalk that they using for so punch list is ongoing I guess put that way and you're addressing Bruce's concerns yeah we we discuss yeah they have they have uh have it on the list we get to a point on a project like this uh as far as anything related to Top Soil and seating we do need to have stabiliz stabilization at the end of the project so they have gone through and top silled and seated um we don't necessarily want to disturb more areas than we have to because we do need to have stabilization before winter to meet permit conditions so um we might have to come back and fix some of those areas next spring um because anything we do now is just assuming it will will not grow and we don't want to wreck anything that's partially growing at least okay and can you explain the warranty also yeah so the project will have a two-year warranty from the uh point of final payment so the contractor is at uh sub substantial completion U or near substantial completion um we'll come back next year and pave the pave the project and a final payment soon thereafter so the warranty period will start from that point it's two years on uh work performed by the contractor so there'll be a warranty on the project till sometime in 2027 um at that point if we have cracked concrete um payment that needs to be batched or whatever might end up happening the in the meantime um that would be addressed at that time so seating uh in particular will accept on a um area basis so if it's not taking um and it's du the contractor uh not maintaining it then we will not accept it so that could um potentially extend that maintenance period we don't usually do warranty stuff on on grass uh you know a year or two down the road but um we do try to get all addressed in the spring most likely okay thank you one more comment yeah there's somebody behind you that wants to comment too uh you know one of the things that we noticed when they started back filling can you please talk into the microphone thank you uh one of the things we noticed uh when they were putting dirt in for the backfill and leveling everything off the dirt that was put in was terrible you hard lots of rocks very hard uh weeds and and I don't think when they went through and receded they did anything for taking care of that so there's just as many weeds as grass that was coming up we've started watering taking care of getting rid of some of the weeds some of our neighbors haven't and so you go down the street and from one house to the next in some cases where they've been watering almost from day one it looks very nice other people that thought the contractor was going to take care of it doesn't look so nice okay thank you thank you yes sir hey my name is Jeff patch I live at 206 Lexington Avenue and mine is about the same about the same thing but they didn't never seed mine okay cuz someone else didn't want their seated so I so they skipped me and then I was texting whoever on the reply of they sent to your email so I replied that they never seated my lawn and the same thing has got rocks and clumps of of dirt and so they said they seated it but from my eyes there was no seat like it okay now now I just want to make that clear that they didn't do their job good to know thanks anybody else want to address the council yep come up Mary your name and address please Mary suup I live at 702 persing I'm on the corner of 6th Street Northeast they just finished that up um they did the seating last Friday but again we didn't have any come come and water it so I've got seed all over my yard of course but um we were wondering if they're going to show up this year to to water at all if it's our responsibility CU right now I really don't have a lot of faith in the construction C company as Matt knows I'm the one that had um an issue with my basement that I'm still fighting for I spent over $77,000 fixing my basement trying to get BCM or their insurance to come and fix it we're still working on it Matt has been helping me with that but I'm being assessed over $10,000 but right now I'm still paying out money out of my pocket to fix my basement because of them so I don't have much on the construction company just wanted to make it no I appreciate that thank you anybody else want to speak to the council otherwise I take a motion to close this public hearing so move second second okay there's been a motion by Rick seconded by Shan all in favor say I I opposed motion carries okay all thec concerns that uh came up we will look into them and address them Matt or the city engineer will um if there any other concerns that you didn't think of to come up contact Matt rinda our Public Works director and he'll get on it um there is a um motion or resolution in front of everybody kind of um for to accept the assessment hang on here a second Jos that last lady that got up there write her name down so I can get it from you yes resolution 2410 2101 yes sir that's what it is make a motion for approval of resolution 2410 2101 2024 Street utility Improvement project adopting assessment okay there's been a motion made to adopt the resolution is there second I'll second there's been a motion made by Bruce second and by Maggie um any other discussion or questions otherwise in favor uh all in favor say I I I opposed motion carries thank you everybody the next item up on the agenda is um the tax abatement for an eert 54 unit apartment building Josh you're going to start it off yes Mr Mayor city council um tonight as you know we've been talking about this for a little while is our uh formal public hearing for the tax abatement request from eert construction uh just some details on the project this is for an opposed apartment building just south of Walgreens on a roughly 1.6 acre lot uh this lot is currently zoned for high density residential housing which is what this project would be uh generally this overall project is looking at a at 54 units um in before use the current breakdown uh 12 units are looking at El Cove um Andor studio uh 23 units of one bedroom eight units of one bedroom plus a den and then 11 units of two bedroom uh generally for this project rents as the developer has shared with us will be ranging anywhere from ,200 to $1,800 and currently all public utilities do exist already in the ground so there is no need to add further Public Utilities uh the formal request from the developer is for a 66% property tax abatement over 15 years uh tiered so the first five years we'll be looking at a 100% tax abatement of um incremental taxes so taxes above what they are today uh the next 5 years would be for 66% abatement and then then the last 5 years would be for 33% abatement overall this average is a 66% there is no other assistance that has being requested so just real quick as we kind of dive into it what is tax abatement um I know uh there has been a lot of talk these past few weeks especially I've been asked a lot of questions staff's been asked a lot of questions so I want to run through this to make sure uh that everybody is kind of on the same page and is aware of tax abatement uh so tax abatement is a tool that is used for local governments that allows them to forego property taxes on a certain property for a specific period of time uh tax batement is commonly used by local governments to address needs within the community that are not otherwise being met um though the state of Minnesota does allow them to be used at any time for any purpose tax abatement is collecting the tax from a property owner and then remitting that tax back to them tax bment is is not collecting uh tax is not taking taxes collected from other property owners to give to a property owner or developer so as an example of what tax abatement is um if this project were completed back in 2021 with the requested approved abatement um all else being equal kind of what would that look like for the city in 2024 we levied $ 4,824 628 were this project existing or let's say coming onto the tax roles uh the the tax collection of this propo proposed project would be the $593 that it is current existing tax Value Plus the estimated $3,856 that would be collected due to the Improvement we would then Abate back to the developer after we are paid the $31,800 levy adjustment at the end of the day for the city uh in this case the tax uh abatement would allow a property owner to forego paying a portion of their property taxes for a set period of time uh without the abatement the developers stating the project would not happen therefore if there is no project there would be no property taxes to collect other than the $593 that is currently existing uh the tax impact on the city is the same whether the project happens with an abatement or whether the project does not happen because no abatement took place so then why should the city Abate the tax uh as I stated earlier tax abatement is commonly used by governments to address needs that are otherwise not being met uh along those same lines the ma Scott County did a u sponsored a study by Maxfield uh to show kind of look at housing across the entire County including the entirety of new prag uh and over the next 16 years that study um does show that there is a drastic need for apartment uh in excess of 655 units by their estimate um over the next 16 years as well as a backlog of need that has not been addressed uh the Eda uh currently does business retention and expansion visits and tries and is trying to meet with every possible business that we can to see how we are meeting their needs and if we can a very common comment that we get is that finding new local employees is very difficult um in large part due to housing uh there have been no new market rate Apartments built in new prag over the last 30 years and in that same time the population of New prag has doubled from just over 4,000 up to 8,000 people and by foring a full uh collection of tax for 15 years uh the city is able to have a need addressed with Eber departments so why are new apartments needed um as I stated the city population has doubled uh since the last market rate Apartments were built in the 1990s um apartments are part of a he house a healthy housing system that provides a mixing mix of housing types for people at various stages um these could be young professionals who are not yet ready to buy a house retirees who are looking to maybe get out of their house um new residents to new prag who are want to buy a house but they're not quite haven't found one yet could be single parents looking to get back on their feet um I know a lot of people who just don't want to have to maintain a home or yard um or people who are not able to afford a down payment but are able to make rent payments uh new apartments also act as I said for uh housing for new employees as they're coming to New preg and they may have not yet settled in and able able to find that more permanent or I want say shouldn't say more permanent but single family housing if that's what they're looking for um so why other cities doing this uh they in fact are um city of Jordan recently approved a 72 unit apartment building um for a 12 a half year abatement for over a million dollars and the city of Farmington approved a 74 unit building over a 20-year Tiff which is similar to tax abatement um at 1.75 million uh more and more cities are looking at how they can address the housing needs within their own City and tax abatement is one of those tools that local governments have that they can that they can help address that need so if the city were to do this does it give up all of its benefits for the next 15 years um it does not housing benefits housing benefits both the city as an organization from a tax based standpoint as well as the city as an organism when you look at uh the needs of various businesses and their employees uh with this the tax base will grow and will eventually be fully collected in time uh the city will start would start collecting a 33% of the tax base starting in year six right now estimated about 10 and half ,000 uh 66% after year 11 at a little over 21,000 and finally after year starting in year 16 it would collect the full amount um these amounts do not factor in the very potential rise in valuation um and should that be the case the abatement would likely be paid off early uh and the city would start collecting in full early on uh new residents in this building would likely shop uh at local stores and businesses enroll their kids in our schools uh it would open up existing housing should there be anybody uh in new prag who is currently looking to get out of their home and maybe would prefer an apartment uh and the city would also start collecting fees for the project the sanitary sewer connection fee uh right now is estimated to be at $386,000 um the water connection fee would be a little over $72,000 and the building permit fee for the city to review and inspect would be $882,000 uh there would also be 54 new utility customers uh paying roughly $25,000 per year in water sewer and electric fees um and with a potential of over $116,000 in water sales Water and Electric sales for those so are there are there no downsides well there aren't necessarily downsides to an a batement either um it's very possible like any development uh that we could see added services for both police and fire um there would also be additional wear and tear in Street as certainly chalupsky Avenue would get used more and then uh the city would be foregoing a tax collection in some capacity for the better part of 15 years now this last one is only a con assuming that the apartment were built without the abatement um all indications from the developer are that this project will not happen if the abatement does not happen uh so why not single family homes we've also been talking for the last few years that we are in desperate need of single family homes and lots to develop uh cities definitely need a mix of housing of all housing demographics uh and I believe should focus that assistance where it feels it is most needed um single family homes have historically been built without assistance in new PR um and for whatever reason we have not seen apartments in the last 30 years market rate Apartments um generally higher density housing such as Apartments is much more cost-efficient to serve with public infrastructure uh if we look at the population that is assumed from these 54 units um right now General estimates and occupancy would be around 95 residents to get the same number of residents in single family homes we need 36 single family homes uh that would cover roughly 13 acres of land uh compared to the 1.6 acres of land that this would cover uh we would also need 1,700 ft of new streets and utilities to serve those and then the city would take on ongoing costs for maintaining all of that new infrastructure uh not just population wise but if we look at taxes once this apartment is fully on the books we be looking at roughly 31,000 annually in taxes uh to get that same valuation out of new homes that are being built uh new PR right now we need about 17 of those brand new homes to be built to equal the same amount of taxes annually that we would eventually collect um again in those same ways the those homes would cover about six acres of land so over the last few weeks as I've said um staff has certainly spoken to quite a few people um both Ken andich and I have attended a few public hearings and we've heard a lot of various comments from people uh and and so I'd like to kind of talk to some of those real quickly here just so um hopefully I can answer some questions before we dive into the public uh formal public hearing uh does the city of New prag have enough demand to support these apartments um as I stated population has since doubled since the last time Market rates were market rate Apartments were built and a recent study by Maxfield U showed that we would need 655 additional units in new prag covering a mix of market rate senior and subsidized housing um this is coupled with field research done by Ebert construction um they've stated to us they wouldn't be willing to invest $13 million if they did not believe they could fill the apartment to be able to make that investment worth it we've also heard that new PR doesn't want to necessarily become a community with Apartments everywhere uh I certainly agree with with that um that is why this apartment is going into an area of town that is currently zoned for high residential um use uh back in 2022 uh the city council approved a zone change for this property to put uh Apartments there this is really the only use that can go in that area at this point uh I've also heard that the project will cost too much and they'll never be able to cash flow it um the people who are investing in these projects uh have done this much more extensively throughout their careers um they would be the investment bankers the people that have the 13 million dollar to put forward for it um and so I guess generally uh they are the ones that are deciding if they can cash flow and is worth investing their money into and while this is an assumption I'm making I'm assuming if the project was deemed too risky risky they would look elsewhere uh I've also heard that these project rents are way too high and that no one will pay that price um for 2022 the project rents aren't really crazy they're looking at $1,200 to $1,800 um and while that is certainly higher than rents were even 10 years ago that is currently where they're at um if rents and new pra aren't currently that high that's it's possible that it's just we haven't had new apartment since the 90s and new apartments could possibly pull that again that would be some of the research that eert construction has done when they're looking at Cash flowing this project um I've heard that there's no way this doesn't affect taxpayers the the money to Abate the taxes has to come from somewhere um as we've already discussed the money to Abate taxes comes from the property owner of the project they will pay their taxes in full and the property will Abate the agreed portion back to them up to a total maximum amount um no prop no Abate no taxes abated to a property owner will come from anywhere other than the taxes paid by that property owner um and I've heard that no other residents get a rebate on their taxes uh as I stated tax batement is a tool that is provided for to local governments to allow them to incentivize their projects um in this case as part of a healthy housing system the city is in need of additional Apartments um which haven't been built in 30 years uh I've heard if a developer isn't paying their taxes the burden is shifted to every other taxpayer um and as we've seen the abatement is paid for by the developer um without abating the taxes all indications are the project won't happen so with the abatement the city receives less than full property taxes for a short period of time but does receive other benefits um without the abatement this in all indications are the city would receive nothing uh once the abatement is paid by the agreement uh the city will have the apartments the ancillary benefits and the additional tax base uh I've heard the county opted not to participate in the abatement and the developers still and the developer total requested amount went down they clearly don't need the abatement so we spoke with the developer after the county decided not to participate indications were to us that they intended to honor their requests for the current terms and not increase it um due to another entity deciding not to participate that being said um the developers said they will likely have to look into uh potential cost-saving measures within the project um that they were not originally intending um but that they would keep their current abatement request tax abatements we've heard the tax abatement should only be for small businesses bringing new jobs to town um while new business is certainly great a crucial part of economic development is being able to support the workers in those businesses without workers there are not new businesses or expansions of existing um in addition to the many uh things people would like in their Community such as stores parks and schools workers also need a place to live and not everyone wants to or is able to a live in single family housing supporting housing is another tool of Economic Development uh we have heard that they have clearly already started the project either a they're planning on going forward without WEA the abate happens or not or that this is already approved behind closed doors so the current property owner not the developer submitted a grading permit back in August of 2024 to address existing soil issues uh we were told this was done with the desire to develop the land now in the future the property owner knew that these soil Corrections had to take place uh the property owner opted to begin making these soil Corrections so that they were taken care of whenever the property would develop um this is the same grading permit that anyone within town would be able to apply for for uh I have heard that my bills have continued to go up over the last few years whether for electricity groceries homeowners homeowners insurance or taxes and I can't afford to subsidize an apartment building um as we've stated forward the tax abatement for this will be paid for and then remitted between the taxing entity the city and the agreed to proper and the property owner um no taxes are being Abed that weren't previously paid for by the property owner um how is this going to affect the infrastructure in new pra this particular project all public infrastructure that is needed by this project is already installed and currently not being used to its full capacity this means that the existing taxpayers are paying to maintain infrastructure that's not that is being underutilized the various fees which equal over $500,000 both upfront and then ongoing through monthly bills paid by the project and eventual people who live here um will support that existing infrastructure um so why are we assuming that in our calculations that the property is not increasing over the next 15 years um when the abatement was being discussed I did not want to assume that the property would necessarily increase in value um should it increase in value the overall abatement ask of $ 36,960 would remain the same um the abatement would just be paid off sooner as the percentages in the terms would remain the same uh why are we assessing people for Street projects and giving money away to developers tax abatement is a tool that is used by the city to incentivize projects it deems appropriate for a growing city but not otherwise being addressed the infrastructure assessments that we saw tonight and with other projects are another tool used by cities to help Finance infrastructure projects and while the city is paying the bulk of those project costs infrastructure assessments are assigned to those property owners who are deemed to have to have derived the most value from a project um this is why for many years the property owners adjacent to infrastructure projects have been assessed for projects next to their property so going into the the terms of this abatement request as I stated they're requesting a 66 uh% tax abatement on incremental taxes collected over 15 years totaling 13 36,960 um ultimately if the property sells the abatement is able to be terminated by any of the parties participating um in this way uh no future buyers May uh benefit from the risk taken by eert Construction and if any party does not participate um the other parties within the agreement are able to opt out as well so I guess if you haven't been able to tell I I would on my professional opinion recommend approval of this abatement as I've stated with the abatements the city would foro taxes for a period of time though we would be increasing a future tax base uh new housing units would be provided for um future employees and other people looking for housing within the community utility and building fees would be paid utility customers would come onto the books that would help support our utilities um without the abatement the land may continue to sit empty for an unknown period of time and we ultimately get nothing out of it so I will certainly stand for any questions you may have at this point um I would assume that there are some people that want to speak to this does the council have any questions for the city administrator I ask aing okay do you want to do the hearing now that's fine okay um clarification I guess what's that unless there's clarification of what he presented yeah we can that's what I was wondering if anybody needed clarification otherwise um I'll open the public hearing again you're limited to three minutes come up state your name and address and um um ask your question so does anybody want to come up and address the council in regards to the abatement question come on up Sir evening mayor council uh my name is John Baker I live at 603 chalupsky and I am here in favor of the abatement I look at it as a treasury bond where it has a short duration and it's going to yield large value to the city in the long run now this perceived value is both in form of Economic and through actual monetary value um yeah so I just think you should approve this project approve thisat thank you right anybody else want to come up and address the council anybody else come on up ma'am state your name and please um my name is Katie berer and I'm with kwi construction and I also sit on the chamber board of directors um so tonight I just want to speak on behalf of the chamber board um we would like to express our support for upcoming abatement discussions both today and on November 4th we believe that de development in new pra is an important step in fostering growth and improving our community the new prag chamber strongly supports both Housing Development projects in new prag for a variety of reasons our businesses depend on accessible housing options for their employees including those working in the school district at our larger Corporation and in smaller local businesses we are fortunate to have businesses within our community ready to support this growth development is crucial not only for sustaining our economy but also for ensuring our community continues to thrive expand expanding our infrastructure will allow us to attract new businesses and Foster continued success in new prag we believe that fostering growth in our community benefits everyone and we encourage Forward Thinking initiatives that can help achieve these this goal we believe the city should feel the same thank you for the information tonight Josh um that was very helpful and if we could just make this more available to the general public I think that would help going forward clear communication about how abatements work in the long-term benefits to our community would help prevent the misunderstandings and will Garner more public support for future development development initiatives uh we appreciate the council's ongoing efforts to guide the city's growth and development it is important that the city and chamber share similar goals so that we can continue to collaborate in ensuring the prosperous future of new pra um and then on behalf of kwit construction um we would also like to say that we are supporting this tax abatement um we have lost a lot of good workers due to the not a lot of housing available in new pra especially younger workers who can't afford um single family housing um so thank you for your time and we strongly support the tax batment thank you anybody else want to address the yes sir St your name and address uh my name is Austin Revel uh with 2f byc tactical uh 410 Main Street West uh I'm here in support of the tax abatement as a small business in town you know we're always looking to invite new customers in to expand our business we're in the middle of an expansion project right now and it'd be nice to have some new customers coming in to help us with that project uh just kind of echoing what Josh saids you know I sit on the Eda board and we hear this at every BR visit uh business retention expansion for those of you who don't know what that means they need they always say at these business meetings that we need more housing and it's uh something that I continually hear about in my current location there's apartments above us uh and people come in every day thinking that we're the property owner looking to rent those apartments because there's not enough around here so this would go to a address a great need in the area so I I I do hope you guys will take that into account thank you anybody else want to come up and address the counil for or against state your name and address hello my name is Brian fallson uh 264 Street Southwest uh just want to say that I'm a big supporter Austin business so um so I'm not sure why this is still being considered um let's look at how we got here and some notable changes along the way uh after presenting the proposed asks the asks as requirements to make this project viable the developer has repeatedly reduced the size of their ask whenever it is convenient for them the developer initially wanted a $1 million Grant uh from the workforce or forgivable loan the workforce housing program to apply to this program local tax and authorities had to have skin in the game this required a two to1 City match of $500,000 Total Lean $1.5 million package this is discussed on the April 1st meeting uh so the board was asked to entertain a tax bment in order to allow the application to be submitted later at the April 15th meeting they found out that prevailing wages were required so they took the 500 if they took over $500,000 or more of State taxpayer money to circumvent this they conveniently reduced the state ask to $499,999 they also reduced the total shortfall ask to $1.2 million at this point after the reduced State Workforce housing program request uh couldn't fill their Gap their shortfall from this uh the city alone this is when the city decided that they had to spread the load to other taxing entities the county and school I pay for all four of these this shows that the devel has a history of moving the goalpost for this project on September 23rd the state application was denied at this point the whole thing should have been stopped we were told that this project won't happen unless the developer gets this money right after the application fell through the developer t fall suddenly shrank to $810,000 in the county City and school at the county commissioner's meeting they saw this as such a bad idea that the board didn't fail to pass a motion to approve this or rather passed a motion to deny it four to Zer to one with one abstaining we now have had the state decline their application and the county commissioner is giving a hard note to this as well this board should follow suit I would like the county uh the council to address my concerns that the city will wave the hookup fees and other fees for this in Le of the abatement failing this develop needs to play by the same rules as all the other citizens play play by if you saw the presentation it's $475,000 the shortfall there described in these requests is not for additional financing this is for cash all back to the investors and paying back debt if you watch the yellow tree meeting they stated that the 155 they being yellow trees stated that the 155 unit apartment expected to be fully rented in about 6 months after construction completion so there should be no cash flow if there's such a demand in recent years we have seen two quick trips expansion from the mall adjacent to this property hi ve McDonald's Schooners coffee bricks Bowers CVS racing expansion and 180 keyan homes to be developed on the northeast side solving a lot of Home issues here dirt moving counts is starting the project all of which did not need need tax handouts or tax abatement thank you please send a message to developers that this city is not interested in tax handouts thank you thank you anybody else want to address the council go ahead um my name is Joel Wallen um I've been pretty uh I live at 716 Main Street East I've been pretty vocal about um the tax abatement um in my letter to the editor um the newspaper last week um I included a quote from Mark Robin uh he was formerly with the tax Foundation he's currently with Pew charitable fuss uh charitable trusts which is uh 501c3 that owns the Pew Research Center he uh wrote that the economic literature is not kind to targeted tax incentives at best their economic effect is minimal at worst it's zero or negative in any case the benefits secured are generally not worth the cost um and when you look at some of the costs that are involved in this you're going to have um 54 families in this complex uh and and their rent their rent would normally go to pay a portion of the property owner's property taxes in this instance since the property owner won't be paying taxes at all for the first five years or at least the Val on the value of the building um those rents are not going to be going towards uh no no portion of that rent will be going towards the uh the property tax however all of those renters will still receive a property tax credit in the form of or a property tax rebate in the form of a renter's credit so every year you're going to see a cost there and that doesn't include the additional costs that they're going to um that that are going to be incurred by the city resources that those residents will consume I also uh did an analys an analysis um this afternoon on um the uh Revenue that this project will be generating and I sent you all an email um regarding it I noticed that the numbers have changed a little bit so those numbers are no longer correct but by my figures um Eber construction or eer development is going to be receiving a little bit over $900,000 in the first year that this uh a little over $900,000 in the first year that the the project is fully rented um over the course of 15 years you're going to now I've been a uh property building manager for both Eastgate Estates and for uh Parks Side Apartments over on the west side of town typically you're going to see a yearly property tax increase in one year that I was managing Eastgate Estates I saw the prop or not property tax increase a uh rent increase in one year that I was at Eastgate Estates one minute okay in one year that I was at Eastgate Estates they had three rent increases in one year now you can expect a 5% to 8% increase every year in the rents on this property what does that work out to be in 15 years well it's a if it's a 5% increase every year that's going to be a doubling in their revenue so there's their revenue is going to go from a little over 900,000 to little over I'm a little over uh 1.8 million per year if they do an 8% increase it doesn't double it triples their revenue over over those 15 years and when you take a look at the rent increases that are going to take place over the 15 years they should not have any problem paying for this it might be a little bit they might have a little bit of trouble at the beginning but over the course of 15 years they're going to more than make up for it those are my comments thank you thank you anybody else want to address the council state your name and address please hello my name is C Walton I live at 31184 151st AV and while I respect the naysayers of this abatement um what they don't understand is when talking to businesses during my workday we are constantly hearing the challenges they have in running a successful business while there are many one is that they cannot employ or keep employees because of our lack of housing this becomes a huge problem for the future Community because a thriving Community attracts businesses and investment creating job opportunities boosting the local economy and help share the tax burden later down the road a larger Community offers a wider network of people to turn to do for help advice or simply companionship when a community grows so does the feeling of connection among its members people feel more invested in their surroundings and more likely to support local initiatives the truth is with the surrounding cities landlocked and unable to expand new pra is the next big city that can grow in a positive way we want to encourage our city council to think forward and not stay stagnant over time the hope is that the increased property values and revitalization ation of the area will lead to higher overall ta tax revenues for the city and once the abatement period ends this is a huge positive for our city it will continue to encourage future development growing a community is a rewarding Endeavor that benefits everyone involved by fostering a sense of belonging supporting one another and investing in local initiatives we can create a vibrant and thriving place to live so I am asking you to please vote Yes to growth to change into a better new PR thank you thank you anybody else want to address the council this matter going once uh Ben Bryant 873 Hillside um local business here in town and I know right now finding employees is really really hard um currently I'm advertising in Prior Lake Savage shaki and giving incentives to employees there to come down to new prag because I can't find people here in town to work for me um and so definitely approve this abatement and the apartments coming in um just so we can help with that um local businesses and then just um for employees as well as people to frequent our local businesses as well thank you anybody else anybody else going once going twice I'll take a motion to um end the public hearing so move there's been a motion is there a second a second okay there's a motion a second um all in favor say I I I opposed motion carries all right okay so does anybody have any questions or um I just want to make note that I did receive and I think some of the council members did didn't um we received U Mr Woolen sent me a um uh letter in opposition of of the tax abatement then I received one from um let's see here Holly Huffman as far as uh against the tax abatement and then um also Sandra te I received one against the tax abatement uh yes and Mr Mayor I just want to note um we did as staff receive some that I've put in front of you yep um there is a letter of support for the abatement from chart a letter of support for the abatement from the uh new PR area schools uh in terms of employees and employees needing housing within the community um there is a letter of support from Mayo Clinic uh uh there's a letter of support from Mr Bryant who spoke this evening um and then also a letter of support from Warson and gogin um for uh additional housing in the community okay all right so those those will be entered into the record also just so people know does the qu does the council have any questions yes go ahead sir start yep go ahead a lot of a lot of material here in thank you Josh for putting that together then some very good comments from people so I just want to try to catch some of those and clarify some things so it's kind of random and I apologize for my question questions being random like that but a lot of times we do tax abatements uh more in the Eda because I'm on the Eda a lot of times it's more industrial commercial properties we're dealing with and it's quite often the focus on job creation or job holding back and tax abatements were used for chart for their major expansion there was job uh requirements within that tax abatement and unfortunately for a chart they weren't able to succeed on some of those requirements and and the tax abatement didn't they had to give it back basically but it was great for us residents for my taxes and everyone else's taxes because they built the building and and became part of our tax capacity for the city and reduced my taxes because of it so that's one of the benefits that Josh talked about is the increase in tax capacity for the city that that is one of my focuses uh for the Eda not only the increase in tax capacity but the what we've been trying to do in the Eda is increase the pie uh where commercial industrial pay we have more of those taxpayers and less burden on the residential so change the size of the pies apartment buildings aren't commercial industrial but they do have a higher classification of one and a quarter versus residentials that are under 500 is only 1% industrial commercial is really a hot spot because it they can pay almost two times the classification is uh smaller residential but Apartments pay about the same uh classification as uh hostes over 500,000 I think is the number but but anyway um this one is not industrial so we're not looking at jobs but what are we getting in and benefits is really what I'm trying to what I think our question is about or we're trying to solve and is it worth the cost as Josh explained the cost is really the cost of our services during that time that we're not getting any property taxes what is that cost and is the benefits out outweigh that but but there are some very good questions I just wanted to get through some clarifications in some of these on the chart deal you uh we're we're going to do uh this is assumed to have a a a same kind of an agreement or a similar agreement and the agreement I think is that they're going to spend x amount of money to build a building if I'm correct um with the reduction what they're asking for how does that affect what they're going to be putting into the building you mentioned in your presentation that they're going to do something about changing costs or something yeah so speaking with the developer um they didn't have any specifics when I spoke to them they said they were going to try to make it work and hope that they wouldn't have to reduce costs but they said they certainly might have to to make cash flow numbers work um and and again they weren't very specific would would it be removing balconies would it be using different countertops I don't know but that's kind of what what we heard from the developer kind of over the last week so is there anything in that that's going to change what we EX expect the tax capacity contribution to be based on what they might cut back or do anything not that I'm aware of so we're still going to have an agreement that the number is going to be about that we we still expect the valuation to be at least $6.1 million um if not potentially higher I know the the county staff has spoke to us since then and said that they're currently reevaluating apartment buildings across the county but um without having direct plans in front of them they wouldn't know exactly what it's valued that's but that 6.1 was their estimate from a number of months ago now um that that agreement that we're having does that have Financial compliance in there so if they really would perform much better financially that the batement are we having any kind of compliance inspection uh there is not that that was kind of the purpose of the step we call the step down of of understanding um kind of like like Mr Wallen stated that uh as rent will naturally increase and that sort of thing that the need is much greater at the beginning than it is at the end okay and so that was kind of the purpose of putting the step down into it so the compliance the only compliance is that they build it and it's they spend that much money to contribute to have the valuation yes valuation what was the original reason why the um the Minnesota housing was not approved or Workforce housing was not approved you so Ken might have to also jump in here as I try to remember um so from what we heard I believe there were 37 applications that were submitted and they only approved 25 of them um some of the areas that we that we I say we well I say we we were the technical applicant for this um but that the project didn't score well was that one uh there were too many units to get Max points so they put it on kind of a grid and they awarded uh structure with less than 20 units the maximum amount of points and so we got I think half points or zero points in that particular grade um you remember what the other one was yeah the other one was um apparently we've received funding through mhfa program um related to the and Bruce you would know as being in the Eda the Minnesota City participation program and they took away all of our points because we participate in that which is for a first time home buyer um program for down payment assistance that's unfortunately so yeah I believe we've gotten well hundreds of thousands of dollars from that we have program to help first-time home buyers um within the city but that counted against us for this project that has costed the city absolutely nothing um to leverage those dollars but did not help in the scoring for the mhfa workforce housing program so this uh plan is structured as a not to exceed so we'll never have to pay back more than the 316,000 correct is correct so if the property increases in value more dramatically then we just the the structure of it will be that it will be paid off sooner correct less than 15 years correct okay and that's in the contract yes okay I I hate to add something or if I the hearing's closed it's the council discussion thank you and we've continued with the 15 years even though we you can go up to 20 yes so with uh and again Michaela with Baker till is here and she can correct me if I'm wrong I believe when you have more than one entity um 15 years of the cap correct I will let her come up and she's correcting me now who's this uh this is uh Michaela Michaela with Baker Tilly thank you may members of the council um question on term if there are three taxing entities the maximum number of years is 15 um if you have one or two entities you can go up to 20 years but you need written denial from one of the other participants so when this started as a structure of all three entities were focused on um the 15year maximum term okay thank you thank you so and maybe just go back there um we don't necessarily have to have a butd four for for approval of tax abatements but this is kind of how I was approaching it that's a but for situation but that that is correct the state of Minnesota allows you to Abate for really any reason or or no reason quite frankly um but we have been approaching this as a butt for as we do not believe that we should necessarily just be handing out money if a developer doesn't need it so then how do we how do we explain or talk about that it was a but four at $1.2 million and now we can still do it at 467 so the 1.2 as you know um was kind of coming at the beginning when we uh went through the initial discussions with the various County and the school board as well as you all um we really got the feeling that there wasn't going to be support for that and we we shared that information with the developer um and for lack of a better term they they kind of went back to the drawing board and kind of came back to us and said well we think we could make this number work um and that's where we landed on the 800,000 as a um as we all know about a week ago um the county opted to not participate and that is where we Ken and I talked it wasn't shortly thereafter um with a developer and they said they were they really had to look at things and kind of where we go from here um and we heard back from them I guess I believe it was Friday morning um that they were continuing to look at it but that they wanted honored their terms of the original request and they may have to make some adjust may have to make some adjustments to design but they um basically wanted to try to make it work that's that's the answer we got I think someone had a very good comment or comment about lur County when we first started this we did brainstorm about asking lur County because they're going to benefit from it to see if they participate but they've never never done a tax up batement that I'm familiar with U for any kind of housing or actually I don't know if they've ever done a tax abatement in leiser County as a county I'll say I I believe they've done abatements I don't know if they've done any housing ones okay probably more commonly industrial or [Music] I think I'll rest for now but reserve my right to ask a question okay um there was a a comment made about the fees that the city would collect uh upon the building of this and the projected um fees that the city would collect is 541 th000 um so that would be for sanitary sewer water and the building permit and the tax abatement total over the 15 years or less if value goes up is $317,000 so um the city would be collecting more in fees than the abatement would be um so I just wanted to to note that um um if there was a concern about that $317,000 Rick do you have anything or Sean yeah I have just a few questions here that I found kind of interesting um and I'm going to actually I know we're talking specifically about the the complex in lur County but shortly after this came about we had another one in Scott County that was three times the size over by Raven stream looking for tax abatement money which would be substantially more than this one and we're starting to set this precedent and I found it kind of ironic in on page number six of the PowerPoint presentation where Scott County says that um according to the Maxfield study sponsored by Scott County it shows a desperate need over the next 16 years for new apartments as well as a backlog of needs not addressed but yet Scott County turned us down when we asked about an abatement of them abating that 151 unit over by Raven stream so they're putting all the onus on the cities I'm guessing and the school districts if this if the county isn't going to and then of course then we had lur follow after that meeting and after you had heard from Scott County that they would not participate and I think you said that in your discussions with the superintendent at the schools they the school district was on the edge of not only the Walgreens uh Apartments but which now we got a letter of support for but at the time we didn't have one but that they didn't want to keep approaching this these tax abatements as these developers continue to come in um so I'm just I find it ious that the counties seem to understand that it's not a good precedent to set and I guess what I'm one of the questions that I'm asking is as a city we're a often faced with uh lawsuits and whatnot that could potentially come up because we were um arbitrary and capricious and what we agreed to and what we don't agree to so I'm just wondering if we were to do the lour county tax abatement but then found that we didn't want to do the other unit in Scott County over by Raven stream would that put us in a legal bind that they could come back and say well you were just arbitrary and capricious and we're going to sue you now because you did it for these guys but you're not doing it for us and we've seen some of that back and forth before or the threat of that in other cities and whatnot so I'm a little curious about that I don't know if you can shed some light on that yes so I would say um tax abatement is one of those things things where um as I've stated the state will allow you to use it for anything or nothing for any reason or for no reason um as far as I'm aware with tax abatement um I believe it is a tool that is used uh in a time and a place for a local government who can can address a need in a time and a place and um you are allowed to say yes to one abatement and know if you believe that that need does not exist two weeks later or two years later or seven years later um it does not set up some sort of precedent uh Scott County basically said that their their policy for a long time now has been to focus their tax abatement on jobs and not housing which is why we got to know from them um there were various reasons why uh the lur County Commissioners stated that they were not interested um the word I got from the school district was they'd like to focus on one and um not have lot lots of balls in the air um that it doesn't necessarily shut them off for the future but they were focused on um this particular project uh tonight and so I I would just word of caution I'd try to keep our conversation based on this particular project not both of them I mean I understand the precedent question right um but to try to not to compare the one or the other since tonight's public hearing and discussion is on this project right but I think it's important for the residents I'm sure there's a lot watching too and the residents that have taken their time to come out here here to get that information because they might not have that information so and I think it's important to that they they understand some of that too um another concerning issue that since the county lur County talking about the lur County project uh said no that um and as Bruce alluded to the developers say they may find ways to produce cost savings throughout the project that were originally not intended right there is a red flag for me because I don't need some building put up that's put up for the cheap because they didn't get their full money I rather see the project not happen than something that where're the town of new prag has to look at as an ice or for and I don't know what that entails and how much they have to cut off I mean countertops and whatever else but and certainly that affects the overall value of it um and then the taxes that will ultimately get back but um I think uh cheapness to the apartment to save money because you didn't get some of this tax abatement um for in the long term could do nothing but just actually lower the rent values and bring in maybe a whole new element of of uh the cheapest apartments around and I to be honest with you I don't want to become another shapy with an apartment complex after apartment complex and whatever else so however I my and then my that was more of a statement but the last um thing that I wanted to bring up was we have letters of support from our three biggest Employers in town chart the school district and Mayo Health um did the lur County Commissioners have this in their hand when they voted that their third of the half down so th those were shared with us um here this week and so I don't believe they had them those yeah okay well I don't know if this was type or not but one of these was dated April 15th 2024 the chart one so those letters of support were for the uh Minnesota Housing Finance Agency application and they're in support as Josh mentioned earlier for the need for housing okay so that's why okay so they weren't just written recently they were not written and I wonder if the lur County Commissioners saw those letters that um they were aware of them and we applied for the mhfa funding um they would have seen them at some point in the past obviously they didn't have them in their past back at that they had when we had the hearing but in the past they had seen those okay that's all I had all right you know this is a tough decision um you know it's investing in new PR's future and that's always a crystal ball to be looking in because we don't know what it will bring so Mr Mayor um yes in in front of you I put a uh paper resolution uh this was one that we received from our City attorney just this afternoon here um basically he kind of rewrote the resolution a little bit uh he said he he liked the language in this new one better I think it comes down to the fact that he made sure that there was the county wasn't never mentioned in here um as well as just how some of the different areas are worded quite frankly but that was passed on uh this particular one was passed on from Scott rigs as to his recommended resolution should you want to proceed with this okay Mr Mayor I have one more question I meant to ask I had a phone call on my way home back into town here tonight um does City staff know that the apartment buildings going up in Bell Plain did did those receive tax abatements do you guys know off hand there apparently there's two buildings going up I know the one going up by coor does not I'm not sure of other projects there I do not know okay but one for sure is not so there one for sure is there are people building apartments without tax bment and then paying full taxes and still yeah and I think you could find that in any City yeah okay but um Jordan was in a similar boat back in 2022 uh with their um was it $1 million abatement for 72 units because it had been decades there as well and um if you look back through their couns minutes it was to kind of jump start that market again and get those units so that was kind of seeming to be how that's gone and then Farmington was kind of the same argument that they hadn't seen apartment units built by the we'll just say open market without that subsidy so kind of a similar thing that we're seeing here okay well did it jump start Jordan then or because again I don't want to become another Shaka with I can't speak to exactly how well that project's gone but obviously it got built and uh they appear to be nice units and so I guess will say to that Sean um this project is going in an area that's zoned for apartments we're not necessarily looking at putting Apartments just in random places where they aren't planned I I would definitely recommend that especially since we've gone through the comp plan that we not look at putting Apartments anywhere where we don't want to put them okay well and I understand that I I I go back to though I find it very interesting that the developer needs to cut cost savings and I'm really I to be honest with you I'm going to vote no just because I cannot I don't know what there's too much left on the table for that and I'm very concerned that we're going to get a substandard build out perhaps even though it has to be built to state code no not that it has to be built to state code I'm thinking more of the Aesthetics and and on the Planning Commission which I sit on we had required uh extra greena green uh space and trees and um over and above what we normally do and I'm just curious on how they're going to shut or they're going to cut cost whether it's on the facade outside that will be visible to everybody or whether it's going to be substandard apartments with cheaper everything from you know uh uh refrigerators and microwaves to countertops to flooring to whatever else and we're going to be stuck apartments that people don't want to live in because they're a little substandard and not up to their standards did they actually answer the question then is all going to come from reduced expense or are they putting any more money into the game I'm I'm not it was one of those things that they were floating as to things that they may have to do I'm not and I believe Jake is here tonight yes staying in the back he might be able to answer more directly himself of kind of what they have plans for what they're doing but yeah it was just kind of share they shared with us that they would like to honor the original terms instead of changing stuff last minute and then them trying to figure out how they could make make the new terms work well it's a zero game so if they agree to spend this much money and we give them less they have to put in more so is that can we assume that or not so I I do know when the last reduction came I believe it was they put in more money up front to make up for that reduction if I remember right but I mean Jake may be able to answer that better if you'd like to hear from him I hear from him I would Jake yeah if you can come up I know it might be a little uncomfortable In This Crowd but happy too it's uncomfortable up here too so yeah bet yeah thank you for having me um so name just Jake bensy with ebra companies um so yeah I mean the the real reason for the tax abatement is there's just a difference between the market and what we're trying to build here and what we're trying to build here is a nice product right so it's going to have hard surface tops all the common areas you would want and expect in a building minus a hot tub in a pool it's going to have a dog wash Club room a top floor back for a lot of people to enjoyy so the reason for that is it's there's just a market mismatch with what you can get in a certain Market such as new preg with the rents we talked about earlier and the cost to build an ice building so you know while we're not planning to reduce the building and the quality by any means that would be one way that you look at it so you know to narrow that gap which we're still left with a significant Gap after hearing from the county things like that that you know you would take off balconies we're not doing that you know you would have wall AC units versus you know magic packs we're not doing that so that's just one way that you would explore to help narrow that difference and to answer the other question yes we you know to balance that are putting in more equity and that's all internal you know we we have a couple Partners working with us Marv deut internally you know from the city here is a partner of ours in this and just requires us to come to the table with more commitment and that's what we've been doing and I know you're obviously not working on this project but I'm just kind of curious the fact that you're in the business how can that apartment unit and Bell Plane do it without tax abatement and you guys seem to be in and you're in a pretty big company I mean you own what how many you told us last time is it 30 40 apartment complexes no we don't own that many we own ever been a part of probably eight or nine Oh I thought it was more than that I'm sorry no no uh but you do still own yep yep we do and and we do a lot of other construction work for you know other other um developers so maybe that's where well I would just think the demographics are pretty similar for new PR and Bell Plane it but yet they can somehow cash flow this new apartment building without the tax abatement that you guys seem to need yeah and I can't speak to you know that project I think I know the project and and who's doing that um but it you know it could be a factor of the quality that they're planning there too you know maybe they're it's all vinyl sighing and w i and boilers versus the magic packs and balconies you know I don't know that but that would be one thing I could think of off hand um you know I don't know there are other input costs such as land or you know City fees things like that that all go into a project I can't speak to that but I would say that maybe a combination of all those that would be the difference too so okay do you know the details of that project I I don't I was like I said I was asking that question more for a constituent that brought that up is it conable size I believe it's a little smaller there's two buildings but they're I want to say they were 30 he thought they were 30 some units not 51 total 30 or no get each I thought 60 total yeah and I don't have any I haven't driven by it I like I said that call came in right as I was driving no you're does anybody have any other questions for thank you yeah thank you um so you have a resolution in front of you um resolution approving tax uh property tax abatement for certain property in new Brig um does somebody off uh is is is somebody willing to offer that resolution the resolution is not numbered no it isn't we uh if you opt to use the one prepared by the City attorney I would just use the same number we will would be replacing the other one in there I guess call it 1021 03a just so we can keep them separate I will make a motion to approve resolution 20241 2103a second there's been a motion at second is there any other questions or discussions of the council hearing none all in favor say I I I I opposed I motion carries thank you so Mr Mayor the other thing then for that project also included in there is the actual contract um that would include the terms um and so we'd be looking for a potential approval on that 51 talks [Applause] about is that contract have the county wording in it no I don't we we will certainly check that out but good ey good ey Mr Mayor that you guys you guys have handled that yep okay so what he was asking if we have the authority to enter it the contract and that's the resolution okay thank you thank you yep you're welcome um the next item up is the varial terms is the engineer report but I think he's left unless if there's anything more yeah yep so are you g is there anything no there's not we kind of touch base on everything unless you guys have questions okay I have a question for you um you've got a C it's for ordinance 352 Mar terms yeah under the public hearing we're we're oh jeez Louis yeah we got one more public hearing here that one more public hearing sorry about that that we were done um okay so the next item up is the ordinance 352 public hearing for mayor all term um uh yes Mr Mayor the charter commission at its regular meeting in August um voted unanimously by those present to change the uh Charter commission to uh for the new prig mayor to serve a four-year term instead of a two-year term um this uh to go through this process uh there's kind of two paths the charter commission is able to choose either a they can go directly to a ballot to be voted on by residents or B they can send the question to the city council um for to pass the city council level uh the vote would need to be unanimous anything other than a unanimous vote does send it back to the Charter commission to decide whether continue and send it to the ballot or to stop pursuing the issue um upon recommendation from City attorney Scott rigs uh the charter commission decided to forward the resolution um decided by resolution to forward the question to you all so currently the charter uh Commission in section 2.03 reads that uh city council composition here might as well plug this in so you can see what I'm reading pretty thank you I took that myself in my space travels So currently the uh language in the charter commission under Section 2.03 reads that the city council should be composed of a mayor and four City Council Members elected at large each city council member Shall Serve a term of four years and have until the successor is elected and qualified and the mayor Shall Serve two years um when reviewing surrounding communities in Scott lur and rice uh it was pretty well split on which cities have a two-year term and which have a four-year uh really as you look at these generally it looks like in somewhere in that 5 to 10,000 range is the general switch over somewhere for most of them if you look at Scott County really Bell Plaine is the only one that does not have a four-year mayor um if you look at lur the only one with a four-year mayor is lour is the city of lur and then Rice County um has also kind of split down the middle between the larger cities and the smaller ones so um speaking it over with uh the City attorney kind of the main advantages that we see um is that under a two-year system when you have a brand new mayor it may take almost two years for that mayor to start to feel comfortable in their role um yet after about 18 months if they want to continue they are already campaigning again so um kind of the disadvantages um because you definitely need to look at both is that um there's certainly an argument that um disadvantage of well if you get somebody bad in there do we want to have to potentially have somebody sitting in our mayor role that is not well suited for the role for up to four years um and under our current mayor system the mayor while being the focal point of the council has the same number of votes as the rest of the council and so um I do not for many of those arguments you could make for having a two-year mayor you could also make for having all the council positions also go every two years um so I guess looking at this um it is my personal recommendation that we uh look at moving to a four-year term for the mayors um that was also the recommendation of the charter commission um and I guess this public hearing uh would be to take place to uh to hear if anybody in the community has any thoughts on this um issue I guess so okay Council have any questions otherwise I'll open it up for public hearing does anybody want to speak to the mayor all term and this will take a effect actually yes so we we obviously we're not going to make timelines for the 2024 we're way too close so this would take effect the 2026 election run y whoever runs okay you know it's a good idea I mean the expense if you're if you're if you're you know if somebody's competing against you you know you could drive the price up where running from a would be too expensive so I don't know I'd rather see a four myself no you bring up a good point the only reason I and I fought against this uh I've been on the charter commission um is because uh it gives the voting public a chance to REM miix the entire County or the entire board every two years because there three people are running so and there has been instances of some cities that a majority of the board three out of three to two run an agenda whether it's and not saying Tim but where they want to get rid of the chief of police or they want to get rid of the city administrator and there has been many cities that have run into that where three new people come on and then they're stuck for they get to have complete control for four years so I always like that other the the fact that I was on two um it has to be 100% vote I'm going to respect the charter commission um because I know they they do good work because I'm I'm on it I um did not make that meeting so I wasn't able to to speak like I just did I just wanted to make sure people understood that that's where I was coming from um but I'm not going to stop the uh I'm not going to stop the change I'm not going to be the one n to send it back to the Charter commission and have this it was my fault I didn't make that meeting so anybody else otherwise I'll open up the public hearing does anybody want to speak to this going once going twice we take a motion to close the public hearing so move is there a second second there's been a motion by Rick second by Bruce all in favor say I I opposed motion carries all right so um we have the ordinance uh 352 maral term does that have to be a first reading then yes so being an ordinance is does require two readings so this is the first reading um and it will come back again before the council at this point that is planned for the next council meeting on uh November 4th for final reading okay I would take a motion for the first reading on ordinance number 352 Some Mo Bruce made the motion is there a second Sean made a second um any other discussion hearing none all in favor say I I opposed motion carries okay next item thank you next item on the agenda is don't we have to do a roll call for that oh we can we certainly can we do not we certain we can um and it'd be one of those things where if there wasn't if there was like two Nays and we couldn't tell who it was or that sort of thing we might go to a roll call just to make sure that we understood who voted what okay gotcha um the next item up is the sanitary sore feasibility study presentation that sounds exciting does anybody need a break I just took one mayor do we need to address item number six or did we do that already um item number six adopting the final we did up um yes we adopted those during number okay Improvement Street down thank you we did that right okay go ahead you're on all right thank you mayor and Council my name is Tim Olson with Bolton and M I'm a water resources engineer uh thank you for the opportunity to summarize our sanitary sewer system feasibility study go to the next slide uh tonight we'll just talk about the background uh and the goals for the project um we'll talk a little bit about land use updates little spoiler for the conversation after this presentation uh we'll talk about the study results and then some next steps and funding opportunities so your comprehensive plan is on on the verge being approved uh and has been updated for for several years um what we're really doing here is leveraging the land use and some of those those updates that have happened over the past handful of months um your last sanitary sewer comprehensive plan was from 2018 so those land use updates can impact Regional Sewer Service uh lift station locations and sizes uh cost really for for that uh infrastructure Etc um we've done lots of great coordination with uh with City staff namely Kon Matt um through and numerous other coordination meetings so the the goals of the project really were to to do just that update the future land use maps um you know expand the hydraulic modeling to start to size that future infrastructure um Identify some pipe routes along future roadway systems uh provide gravity capacity for future growth so we're looking outside of just the some of the traditional growth boundaries to ultimate service areas uh and then establish some pre preliminary lift station sizes uh and depths which we'll talk about here in a little bit so here's a land use map um those updates happened recently in 2024 um land use does impact the expected sanitary sewer service we use land use based flow factors here on a on a per acre basis um those that table came rate from the comprehensive plan or from the previous sanitary sewer plan so really leveraging all of that data to uh to help resize those pipes um the results really were a function of model expansion so looking at uh future growth areas um sometimes that can be topographic limitations or other Water Resources surface water uh limitations um and then really trying to extend the service of those gravity and lift station systems uh to the maximum extent we can um the so that that I covered that the we we looked at gravity sewer lift station locations and Force main lengths um all to service to the wastewater treatment facility um and then we developed some preliminary pipe grades is that what those uh Pink boxes are lift stations um yeah correct those are those are lift stations so really all the colored sewer service areas that you see um are are the quadrants of the city and plus the North and the South um where we looked at lift station service okay yep um little hard to see this but really we we looked at uh the pipe routes across all of those growth areas um and really tried to hone in on on depth considerations um really ultimately targeting lift station depths and if we go to the next figure um we ran into some issues throughout the process with really deep lift stations um so in a in an attempt to shallow up those lift stations we took a look at U maybe adding potential other lift stations higher up in the in the sewer sheds we can talk more about that if you'd like um but really the exercise here was to just look at those pipe routes and make that we're right sizing lift station deps really ultimately to help reduce costs okay um so those those critical elevations were really important ultimately we landed on um on these what five or six lift stations um five lift stations uh to those construction costs we' size some Force man and all of that uh really in an attempt to to try and bring on um you know or have have as much of those cost estimates as detailed as possible and arrived at a total cost here um of 31 million it's a huge number um there's also some soft contingency costs that come with that and then a total project cost of 35 almost 36 million um really that is broken down that's the total comprehensive cost those are huge numbers we have all of those uh those costs broken down by the sewershed as well um and ultimately these things get con constructed kind of on a peace meal basis as development occurs so those costs aren't all upfront obviously they get uh incurred over the course of time um so next steps really you have this tool now um through comprehensive planning and through modeling uh to help uh expand the study as needed as new uh plan as new land use maybe comes into play uh and those things change you know as Transportation networks evolve with future growth you know all of these tools can now be leveraged to help with the future planning process um and then we can also use this to help explore and evaluate funding mechanisms which we'll talk about right now um these next two slides have a lot of text on them uh we can certainly go through them I'm not a funding expert personally but if you have questions I can certainly find those answers um you know local Wastewater rate sewer access charges those are those are tools that you use now um you know bonding you certainly sell uh bonds to to create revenue for those Capital costs um um going through an assessment process which we heard about tonight um you know there's a state revolving fund loan through the Clean Water revolving fund program those are low interest interest loans that can help provide financial assistance for water pollution um projects there are small cities development program loans that are out there PFA is a really widely used funding mechanism um the Eda can you know help provide grants to help communities uh you know develop infrastructure um and and bring on new business and then the league of Minnesota cities has a grant program as well uh again I went through those two slides very rapidly there are lots of funding mechanisms that are out there that are really widely used across our state and region um and we can discuss those more if you'd like uh that I think brings me to the end got through that quick but I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have so I have a question so this is all new route it is an existing um upgrade in or anything like that upsizing upsizing yeah yes that that is correct you do have a sanitary sewer comprehensive plan that does address the pipe capacities of your current system um we didn't really update that part of it this is all outside connections uh there are some locations I believe where we're may be tying into the existing infrastructure uh and you know like I said before those modeling tools really help us identify future pipe capacity concerns so as development comes online or there's changes in development inside the city not in the growth boundary um those tools can be updated and and leveraged for future pipe sizes okay yep thank you and I apologize for being naive here but it seems like some of the um proposed sanatory lines are going through developed areas already they may very well be um those could be areas that are currently unwed turning to to staff on that are you referring to rural housing developments that are you no I'm just looking at the blue blue line and the blue line say proposed sanatary lines and I just assumed it looked like it was going through areas of our town that's already developed yeah the one the one example that that would be um existing would be um 11th Avenue kind of near Raven stream and that pipe is actually already in the ground Bruce like a I forget the size Matt maybe you know off the top of your head how big that I don't remember same TR line very large line um that would be the one area that would already be existing everything else should be new on that map that I'm looking at here yeah I have a hard time relate to the map but isn't that where the elementary school is there correct yeah that was that pipe was put back in back in 2005 and then when we did the roundabout in I forget what year exactly 20089 um that was extended south of uh Highway 19 with that large pipe so it's actually stubbed um heading to the South there so that'd be the one area where actually do have the large pipe in place second can handle that it's not really a proposed then it's already there that would that would be the one exception to this map on there yeah we could probably update that yeah certainly okay and then um on the south end that would look like it's in between the city and the hill the up by the substation that kind of area where that Line's going to go through it would be west of there yeah eventually You' kind of swing around behind the future Athletic Complex land if that's what you're referring to yeah and then come in basically on um Conor Road 29 okay yep then the on the northeast corner the BC property there so that's expected to be two New Roads that intersect there yeah that's in our Uh current Landes plan and transportation map that lines up with our U future corridor for Alton Avenue in that area so those are basically known uh collector roads that that is in that plan so the one thing to note about this as well um depending on the phasing of the development for um the bezic property or the Key Land Development some of that likely will actually come into the existing system and then it might move that line for the yellow District to flow to the north so we actually believe we can handle uh within existing infrastructure uh a good portion of the 60 Acres that key land has been um talking about but again we haven't seen a concept plan to confirm that at this point then Alton Avenue is that a wing in a prayer kind of thing that it's going to get developed someday and all development driven for our agreement between the county um city and Township that uh we have to as city um basically obtain that right of way as things are developed and brought into the city it will not be driven by uh the county or any so that's not if it doesn't get done it's not a limiting conditioning condition by not having a sewer this sewer line in there it will be a limiting condition for that entire um east side of town well eventually the east side but not the South or the west or anything it won't affect anything that's no and one thing Tim and I talked about actually was um obviously you've got to get from the existing treatment plant yeah for some of these lines so I mean you'd have to complete uh the area uh in blue before you can get to the area in red for example you have to first have the pipe in the ground in that northwest corner before you can get to the southwest corner likewise with the northeast corner and yellow you have to have that done before you can do the green area in the Southeast so you can't just jump into an area if you don't have that pipe higher uh up in the uh um elevation range to get you there sense the development of the East portion of the beac farm could that be done without the Alton Avenue uh line being put in uh again some of that probably on the south end could be but again we haven't seen an actual but not the East part that goes con touches Alton then I I I would not be able to say that would be doable 100% again without seeing a a plan on how they would route the the flow and everything eventually that will have to go in Bruce right I'm just looking at the you know the next five 10 year time period yeah there will become a time where we're going to have to start getting portions of that trunk line from basically the in alignment of Alton Avenue and start building that out that will have to happen and to the point of one of the funding mechanisms we talked about it and uh we didn't show from in the plan but one thing we have right now for um new development um when we're looking at a plat of property we do not have an area charge for sanitary subar at this point everything has been back-ended at the time of building permit um whereas for water projects we do have an area charg uh was it 26 52 an acre Bruce I think something like that um where we collect some of the Water Area charge up front from the developers right now we get zero from uh developers on the sewer end this study will has identified what we can charge for area charges for the developer to pay upfront so we're not needing to pick that all up at the time of the building permit and that actually helps us obviously with upsizing where we need to or know that we need to um that's been helpful for the the water department for uh water mains but that's been a missing component of our sewer plan we have not had that do we need to charge $7500 an acre to a developer to handle their sewer flow and build out that infrastru structure so this is going to help us get to that point Bolton bank recommended that we actually take it a step further and complete a study um to actually look at those uh area charges and we will do that but without this being done we didn't know we're talking you know $1,000 dollar an acre or $10,000 an acre we had no idea so this gives us that information that we actually can uh talk further with a Financial Consultant and come up with a dollar amount to build that $35 million um full expansion out you know 50 to 100 years out in the future so if someone would buy up the moxa property so we have a plan that this is how it address it but is it is it feasible if someone turn turn the key tomorrow and want to do something with all that property again without seeing a development plan it's really hard to develop we will leverage existing infrastructure that we have in place obviously first and then see when you could do this this would be a major Improvement very major and very lengthy in time to obtain RightWay and easement to get pipe in the ground for some of them first stages that come from the treatment plant where we don't have RightWay and don't have development and there there likely will be a time where we may need to approach a property owner that isn't planning to develop but to make that connection through their land and again right now we don't really have any money in trunk fees for sewer to help that off the ground we just have to tell people sorry we can't do it we don't have uh funding mechanism to to make that happen so again this is going to kick off a lot of additional uh discussion we need to have on what are all the options that we can do to pay for it including one of them being area charges but um yeah this was the base information we needed to have to okay to again be prudent with our uh money whether it be uh us upsizing or a developer having to put in that infrastructure when they develop but it's going to vary so widely between projects it's hard to just say exactly how that'll play out interesting good ready any other questions yes where are we going to keep all the hot air hot air hot air that's in the lift stations okay so basically the item is to accept this feasibility study is that correct correct so is there a resolution or a motion or anything just look for a motion okay so I I will move it it's 2410 21 01 uh no that's there's not a resolution there's not resolu be a motion to accept the zer1 was the other one was the street Improvement correct you were just asking me about that doesn't that go right there no we are done with that all right okay so I would take a motion do you want to make a motion yeah so move okay for approve or for acceptance of this report I'll second it is there any other discussion hearing none in favor say I I opposed motion carries thank you thanks for hanging around okay now we're to number uh MSA comprehensive plan presentation yeah you can go ahead bring it up and if you're going to plug in there y that would work I would say you you prepared Emily and proud way to present so thank you although this will take up the entire Podium so don't break it well too late that's okay it's just there we go so I'll also have a quick overview of the comprehensive plan if it wants to connect we see well if it doesn't work I'm going to bring it up for you I guess give me a minute if it doesn't pop up Let the record show I was prepared which is or do we not have the overview I know we got the full comprehensive plan but the presentation I think oh it's the city council presentation yeah it's just it's like 10 slides I can go through I believe Maggie has it sorry bear with me our podium isn't working for whatever reason so I will load up the PowerPoint so she broke it I did I'm sorry good evening everyone U mayor and Council just to introduce myself while this is getting set up I'm Emily Harald with MSA Professional Services I was one of the uh project planners on this team alongside Claire stickler who you might have met at a workshop or two um and Chris Jansen the uh Project Lead so um we started this project I think we kind of officially kicked off in early 2023 um it's been going on for a little bit there was a a pause this year to work on that um small area plan for the former creary site across from the Old Mill so that's why it's taken a little bit of time that's hold on I'm gonna do something different hold on that'll be included into this comp plan right that small yep so the um the small area plan I believe is appendix C and then now that the um sewer plan has been approved uh that'll be appendix d as well I could just do like an interpretive dance or something in or we could just push it off the next there we go no please all right there we go cool you can just head to the next slide so uh couple steps in this process so like I said we started in 2023 with um some Community engagement uh so like preliminary engagement and existing conditions analysis so we started with a um Community input survey like a virtual survey that we sent out to folks um we did stakeholder interviews with um kind of a wide cross-section of representatives from within the community um neighboring communities and like the county things like that um and then we did a couple pop-up meetings public forums public hearing in and stuff later in the process we also did an analysis of um the city's existing planning documents we did some GIS mapping and some um demographic research like market research things like that and we used that feedback to create a framework in a community Vision that we then filled in with um City policies and um just recommended implementation strategies and then that all resulted in the um document that you're looking at now um so that will serve as a guide for City departments um you know decision makers like yourself so this should be it uh the document is comprised of five chapters and the majority of the kind of meat of the document is in chapters three through five so those are kind of the community policies um goals and strategies the future land use map and some of that supplemental information and then the um action plan for implementation which I can go over in a minute and then uh oh sorry really quick and then the appendices um I already said so C and D are those kind of extra plans that we've conducted and Bolton M conducted and then there's also a community profile which outlines all of that research that we did all that data that we compiled and then um a full transcript of the input survey results so if you wanted to go back and dig into a little more detail on why we gave a couple um of our recommendations it should be in there somewhere so um throughout the process all of the information to date that you know we had completed so far was housed on this um project website which I believe was linked through the city's website website it was also widely distributed um just through various means and on social media um and so that included um copies of plan drafts that we had kind of developed sequentially um old committee presentations and um they promoted like engagement opportunities and things like that the input survey was embedded in this um website so people could just visit this and take the survey right there and also a couple other little like engagement activities rather than having to like come to a meeting they could just do it on their own time so that was a helpful resource we had um we also had lots of different uh public engagements so virtual and in person I don't have offand like kind of the number of people we reached but I do know that it was a really wide cross-section of people so we had a popup booth at checkout new preg so talked to a lot of families there about the future land use map and some of the drafted policies um and then over on the right side uh was a an open house we did at the bras for um or bros I never knew how to pronounce it for the small area plan and so we were able to get some feedback on the concepts that we had developed so lots of good engagement and what we heard from that engagement uh just to boil it down to a couple easy icons is that people really cherished uh new PR's ryal character and small town feel and people like that it's close enough to the Twin Cities to get those amenities and um you know job opportunities and things but still have a very nice little quintessential small town to come home to and then uh we had geared uh these policies in the document to try to balance that rural character with the impending growth and development that new prag will experience in the next couple decades so I hope that it it kind of shines through in what you're reading and then the most suggested changes oh goodness most suggested changes for new prag uh was expanding and improving the existing parks and Trail connectivity throughout the city so people really love the parks that they have they just want to kind of see more of it be able to get around to different spots in the community uh see the expansion of uh retail shopping opportunities especially along major transportation corridors and we'll you see that in the future land use map in a minute which will in turn increase employment opportunities and I know you have heard a lot about that tonight already so it's all interconnected um with the mobility map so we did a couple different uh Maps throughout the document just to kind of um bring these policies kind of into a more visual format so with the mobility map uh was created in line with the transportation and Recreation policies especially in regards to expanding multimodal Transportation access throughout the city so it's a little far away from me but I believe it's like a dotted blue line and a dotted Green Line those show the um potential Trail and rway Trail opportunities in addition to just sidewalks future Road corridors Etc uh and then we also heard some uh particularly strong interest in a connection to Cedar Lake Regional Park so there's a little you can see that kind of up in the top corner too this is the existing land use map so this is we did our best to capture um all of the uses currently existing in this city so no like you know no futur use St yet it's just existing um you'll see that it's a majority single family residential or vacant and agricultural land so single family is obviously yellow and then vacant or Agland is gray um and then a fair amount of institutional just with the school district and and some of those like semiu buildings uh we look to existing land use to see how uh current categories are working and then that kind of helped inform our future land use categories to just kind of better um quantify what we were seeing and and how uses interacted within the city so that can kind of transition into the categories we came up with and worked with our steering committee on so not a lot of big changes from the existing land question on this back back it up one so did we is that correct how they got it listed with bellers there yes we have obviously the so we aren't totally connected through we are not no if you remember correctly we have an easement through Mr topka property for the sanitary sewer we have a right of way that's platted basically on each end of the bser development then obviously City Limits that'll eventually uh get us there when we get the next annexation request to connect those two together but we have city services out there okay thank you sorry to get your momentum stopped oh no worries um so with the the future land use categories there aren't a lot of big differences between the existing ones and what we came up with for the future land use map uh the main differences I wanted to call out was the addition of downtown flex and business flex and both were intended to provide some more flexibility in areas that you wanted to see some more um kind of collaboration between the different land uses so downtown Flex um that was to just capture the the mix of commercial and public and residential that's already there um and that's located just along Main Street and then maybe a block or two north and south and then business Flex is more of a combination of commercial and light industrial uses um just to again provide a little more flexibility without having to constantly you know amend your future land use map as maybe things come in that don't perfectly fit within commercial or high highway oriented commercial or industrial things like that it's just to provide a little bit more of a grad and then here is all that together it kind of spoiled it a little with the presentation before this but this is the future land use map that we ended up with and you can see that uh see the uh business Flex in kind of that brick maroon color along major transportation corridors and kind of anticipated corridors in the future and then the pink it's a little hard to see from here but the pink in the middle is the downtown that I just talked about we also added a fair amount of uh medium and high density residential along the commercial corridors to um kind of bolster some of the policies that we came up with for diversifying housing options and housing affordability so that would you know maybe help enable some more of those options and then also serve as a gradient between some of the more intense commercial and Industrial uses and the uh single family residential spread out outside of that part of the communi that that's in that light yellow color and then lastly um like we just talked about this boundary was determined uh pretty much entirely by the sewer extension study so it actually looked a lot different than this when we were workshopping it and then once we got that boundary we kind of shifted it over to make sure that it aligned or it aligned with that study so does anyone have any questions on the future land use map that's kind of the that was a big part of the project for just a quick question so and and I'll just an example of on the sou side of um the golf course there where you have um median density plan that orange color um what happens if somebody wanted to come in and develop single family homes is that something that can be changed in allow that how how the our zoning in new preg has worked yeah and unless you want to change it obviously we have allowed single family development in medium density even high density districts it just gives the ability should somebody want to propose higher density that they could do that some cities do go on next level and say if it's high density you cannot do single family we do not have that currently in our zoning ordinance and we are uh obviously going to be looking at I don't know if I'll have it ready to go for the next meeting but uh proposals from firms for uh rewriting our zoning and subdivision ordinance where we'll kind of look at everything we have in our zoning ordinance and see does it meet what we want to have but right now Sean um you can build single family homes in medium and highdensity residential okay all right yep and we do actually have a lot of most of Raven stream uh development is actually medium density residential but single family family HS as an example okay what if we there was neighborhood opposition to more town homes or something I mean because it's in the comprehensive plan does that mean we can't stop it or that we wouldn't be able to if it was zoned medium density so it would be more difficult you'd have to tie it back to lack of utilities lack of roadways and other support infrastructure to deny that if it's in the comp plan as a designated category if somebody's requesting reone so for example um you will just take uh out south of bellers we have some um uh what category would that be high density residential out in that area if somebody came in because it's on the comp plan say I want to rezone that to high density residential you'd have to have a very related reason not to approve that and would have to be tied to in my mind inadequate roadways inadequate utilities something to that effect that just wouldn't that it wouldn't work well it have safety and uh life health safety issues that would prevent that this is a guide that we would use when reviewing rezoning requests and and the like so what was oh go ahead what was the thought process of of on the south side of the golf course there and um doing that big area of medium density yeah really the the whole idea of that was was to try to get more diverse housing Supply out there not just single family so uh let's say on an acre basis you can fit more town homes in this wouldn't necessarily allow apartment Shen but you could maybe have a a fourplex or something like that if we change the zoning to allow it right now that wouldn't necessarily fit um with our zoning but that's why we're going to look at all the zoning ordinances to make sure that it meets with what you are intending to have be the ultimate build out of of new prag but um yeah just provide diversity that number one was the thing that we heard from majority of our input okay right and I could see where where like you just said about infrastructure maybe getting the rid of private streets uh we actually do not allow those currently I don't know how recent it is anymore but in the past few years we uh banned private okay okay it it just seems so big those those sections that you have like you could put a thousand quad homes in there or something you know I mean it just seems like a big chunk of and and they are and the idea was to provide U that higher density to and able to get more units within a small area that is number one because it is cost prohibitive for developers that's why we haven't had many new plats brought in it's very expensive to develop a new single family lot okay and I don't want to speak for any local developer but uh other than key land coming in and um you know we haven't seen a concept from them yet um I don't I don't know that we're going to see the single family development like we saw in the past there will be but I think they might want to look at smaller lot sizes even single family um side of things or right now our minimum 70 or uh 75 foot wide you know there might be a call at some point and again we have to review this and it's up to the council but um you know some cities are going to you know 55 foot wide Lots 50 foot that's small whether that's something new PR's Council would like to see that that's up for discussion but um you know that's an option that that could come out of the higher density as well plan unit developments and the like which we haven't done a ton of either which can get you denser Development Area in uh exchange for more open Park area okay you know that's just another idea but would the council at that time ever let's say somebody came in and took one of those sections and slapped houses up quad homes or whatever and then do we have the ability then to say okay well we think we have enough right there and we don't have enough single that we could rezone that you can amend the plan at any point oh you can okay I you have to have a public hearing and then obviously uh Council approval but it can be amended at any point if you wanted to come back in a month wouldn't recommend that um but you could you could do that okay okay it's a living document I guess yeah we usually have a slide in there about how you know we encourage you to continually you know continuously revisit your plan um there is a section of that in the document itself but yeah it's meant to be you know continuously Revisited to make sure that it still meets the priorities of the community so okay and that's a plan it is aans can be changed yeah exactly I would hope that you wait at least a month just so I can like you know be proud of what I've done and then for at least a month go from there what for at least a month at least minimum that's what you'd like within a month just let me know great a couple sides left um so chapter five is the action plan for implementation uh it also includes some more information on amending the plan too if if that's really what you want to do um so this uh should look pretty familiar I believe Claire came and did a a joint workshop with the it was with the Planning Commission Council together just to kind of go through and make sure that all of the policies and timelines kind of aligned with your own priorities um so the each goal um for each kind of main section of policies is in that gray row across you know the respective sections and then the goals and priorities or the priorities and strategies are underneath that with um you know partners and primary Champions next to it and then um a Target completion between um you know short-term medium-term long-term and then ongoing so those are colorcoded um appropriately and then lastly um the appendices I already covered this a couple times um but there's a lot of good information in there just on kind of our reasoning for um offering the recommend ations that we did um between demographic and market research just very light market research um our you know full input survey results um the small area plan so that breaks out kind of the phasing plan that we came up with um as well as descriptions of individual site components so um if you want a refresher on that feel free to to read through that and then uh the sanitary sewer feasibility study which now that that's been improved we'll get that added as well and that's about it we're kind of at the Finish Line assuming there are no big changes um let me know if you have any other questions if not um we'll get the resolution Incorporated in the document and get that sent back to City staff soon so so one thing I did want to call out real briefly um we did have two agency comments come in we have representatives from um Helena Township here tonight and we actually had attended uh one of their meetings about a month ago I think roughly um but they had some concerns about land that we have in uh or in our current land use plan that um they necessarily uh might not want to have long-term in an orderly annexation agreement um so one of the uh action plans is to talk about the annexation agreement we have with the township of Helena as well as lburg um so that's one thing we want to address we did take out um some of the future um land use areas that we could not um service through the sanitary plan out of that land East map and we did make that change but um there are some areas that are still in the orderly annexation area that we have from 1978 with uh Helena Township that we cannot get Sewer Service to so that's one of the things we would like to address uh with the town ship to make sure that they align um there's no point in having um something in an order Landing station plan that we cannot get utilities to because we can't develop it nor would we want to Annex it if we can't get utilities there so I wanted to acknowledge that um so we did make those changes and then um the county had a number of uh General comments regarding um support for um connection out to C like Farm regional park for one um and just some other General um comments on edits to the maps we added some little um clarifying portions in the map you probably speak this better than me Emily on um natural resources and the like if I remember being some of the yeah it's like that in a um functional classification for the existing roadways just clarifying some of the the current conditions of the city more than like future things yep okay so sorry I just wanted to to add that in there as well appreciate that um I just want to give a shout out to the committee that worked hard a lot of people um put time into it but staff have really worked hard and you guys worked hard uh you know you worked hard in between with all our recommendations it's easy to get nine people together and give all the thoughts and then ideas and then somebody has to put it together so I want to give you Kudos on that so it was really helpful feedback like those steering committee meetings were really useful too just because it is your plan like we want to make sure that your you know priorities are reflected in it so you know thank you and and everyone else involved too for being so engaged in it okay so with that we have a resolution in front of us um to approve or accept the new PR 2045 comprehensive plan like I said it's a plan so um does somebody want to offer their name to the resolution mean on the committee I will is there a second second so so I made the motion Rick seconded it any other questions or discussions hearing none all in favor say I I I opposed carries bless you holy back there thank you snorting all that pollen you know okay now the next item up on the agenda is an ordinance um introduction on ordinance number 353 did it did I miss never mind you're good okay 353 is sidewalk sidewalks so sidewalks yes let me get my packet pulled back up here had a lot of technical difficulties and Tim has as well tonight it's been interesting all right we're we're back um with yes we had a uh discussion at our past two Planning Commission meetings um in August and then in September we ultimately held a public hearing but the idea came out of the comprehensive plan uh to make neighborhoods more walkable um and this is only for new development I want to knowe not for existing but uh we have required for my entire time at the city uh nearly 20 years uh requiring sidewalk on one side of every new residential development Road um and then commercial there's uh a sidewalk end Trail or one or the other allowed in any every commercial area this code change would say that for all residential streets we would um require um sidewalks on both sides with two exceptions one being for culd thex that are less than 300 feet we would be okay with just one um side of the culdesac having a sidewalk on it and then uh second uh provision that would allow an exception would be if there's less than three units per acre uh for a single family residential area we would consider uh only uh sidewalk on one side now that would take a much larger lot than we actually currently allow um as our minimum lot size so I actually cannot think of a development where we would have uh hit that exception for less than three units an acre um so I just want to note that that is an exception if there's some large lot development which we may get at some point in the future um but we we currently don't have but those would be the two exceptions that the Planning Commission recommended for exceptions to that uh uh ordinance so in front of you tonight is what the Planning Commission had come up with they had recommended a three to zero vote to forward tonight for introduction and uh your consideration at the council level tonight okay and again I should add that the idea behind this would be that this would be developer paid and they're in place so you don't have as many of the arguments or they're buying into a home the sidewalks are already there and you know try to retrofit and do them later so and then you don't have the arguments on why is it on this side not that side just puts them in everywhere okay any questions to the council otherwise I'd take a motion to for first reading of ordinance number 3 53 so moved Maggie made the motion is there a second second Bruce made a second any other questions discussion hearing none all in favor say I I I opposed motion carries okay now we're down to um miscellaneous gen General business or miscellaneous y we we don't have General business do we there is none on the agenda well I'm just asking because you've corrected me enough tonight so I was all over I couldn't find I couldn't keep up um so with that I'll go around the horn Rick nine n yep yep I I understand little German Bruce I just want to touch Bas again on the uh our um bait minute um discussion and then on the baitman agreement that we we have um and just a make sure because I do think that people had a valid about the um we have some compliance or city protection that you know that they are going to build that with that dollar amount and when I looked at the abatement agreement it seems like it's it's okay but it we use that kind of vague terminology in it um so the abatement agreement actually says 54 unit building at a assess value of 6.1 million now we had talked with or we had heard from the assessor uh after the County Board um hearing that that was likely low um and the county assessor was actually out the office for a couple weeks we were looking to update that um so there's a w little wiggle room there um that we believe that that provides enough cover even if they were to cut balconies because that value actually did not include balconies when we initially sent that to them okay so I just want to uh because I think the agreement refers then to a term sheet which really provides more detail or maybe organized detail of the actual total development cost do we feel that that term sheet and this has to be updated with the current information I think it's the agreement still refers to the county being involved in so it's got to be all changed anyway but um do we feel that the just having it listed as total development cost and and it's going to be built at the estimated toal toal cost of 13 million that that holds their feet to the fire of actually spending 13,350 I guess that was our feeling I know that we like Scott worked extensively into the night I think he started getting upset with us Hing him all the time to get this done but yeah so I know when we we talked about several other issues um namely geez Mitch um uh I mean yeah whether it's that issue we've also talked to Scott cuz the school board had the question of well this says that they can't sell the property um if they sell the LLC like that and talking to Scott he felt that all of those were were very well taken care of I will certainly bring up the question of uh amount of money they have to put into it with him because we do need to talk about getting it updated anyway yeah and then I didn't see in the agreement um The Avenue that they either certify that number to us or we we verify it somehow that there's that that there is a a process there that we're doing our due diligence that yeah this is it for this abatement we get a building for 13,350 so it kind of Texas City okay yeah I will bring that up with Scott tomorrow and it just it's kind of in there but it just seems like it provides some wiggle room when you use the words estimated that kind of junk okay and um good Legal Information a lot of the letters or the feedback we got was that are we going to or at least the one some bu that pointed to was did do we have the guidelines in place to protect the city like the chart deal worked out we it should have they didn't perform so we got the money back and that's the way it should be if they don't build it the way they're going to said they're going to build it then we don't do it yep yep so we just want to have clear protection I guess is what I'm concerned about okay yeah we will I can bring that up with Scot that's a defin concern of my own too um then I just have a general question thatt on some of the the street projects we're doing we seem to have I don't know if it's just me or it just seems like we have more residential um uh consternation and maybe it's maybe it's the area or maybe are we doing our procedures the same as we've always done them and do you feel that the neighborhood meetings are going as well as they do in the past or is is our man new man here doing things a little differently or just actually added meetings we've added one extra meeting every year um so we used to do three two and now we're doing three or four actually um so we are more vocal on getting the word out to all residents um I think this year was a really rough year with construction I think that's why we had a pretty well turnout this year a lot of them didn't speak but but um it was a it was H kept me up and if I had any hair I wouldn't have any hair it was that kind of year to be honest with it was a very tough construction year not just to because of weather but all aspects yeah um I do think sidewalks is a major topic but I can tell you after all these streets get put in or all the sidewalks get put in I hear more compliments about that area than negative so I do think they are turning out a lot better than what people expect them to do when you show them on paper they just like oh you're taking up my whole yard but then once you actually see them see them um in placed I think people are much happier about the end results well we seem to it maybe just me but it seems to be more uh comments or push back on next year's project than in the last two or three regarding sidewalks is that accurate is this group uh I think last year was a pretty good push back here to be honest with you um then this year yes it's the same thing uh the year before that wasn't as bad um it's possible too they've kind of seen it coming now because we did we did the sunset sunrise and then we jumped over to Columbus and now we've done Lindale and so they've kind of seen this coming in built support for themselves I guess if you will you know I hate to I mean people are free to say what they want to say especially in a public forum but they they certainly pointed out that they some people that that the meetings they that people people weren't uh listening to them yeah it's really hard to hear um I wish Josh was at that meeting like she said he was but it was actually me at that meeting so I was the one here for three hours at night until 9 o'clock at night answering everybody's questions um uh I can tell you A lot of that information she was saying is not how we relate it I I wish we could record I maybe we should record all of them so you can see the feedback that we give to these people um we do hear them we tell them please come to your next council meeting uh or the next council meeting you can voice your concerns if you have any but these are the reasons why we're placing sidewalks and these are the reasons why we're taking some trees down this there I can't give out any more information if they're not willing to listen to it I mean right right I I do think in 2024 people are more vocal than they were five years ago just the world we're starting to live in nowadays that um they hear what they want to hear and they don't care what you have to say about it when it comes to any information you give them that's just how I feel I mean it's construction's got harder and harder 10 years ago construction was super easy I'm gonna be honest with you it super easy it's it's tough now I think yeah and I understand the impact it it is a huge impact to all these residents when it comes to I feel for him that's how we start a meeting we feel for you you're getting assessed that's not easy you might lose couple trees that's not easy because they're trees that you had for 60 years and there's a chance you get a sidewalk we we're completely changing your environment around you but in my mind for the better I would never bring something to the council that I didn't believe in I truly believe these are for the better for all residents I always tell them also that we have to think of all 9,000 residents of new not just the one that affecting the sidewalk that it's affecting we got to think of everybody involved right well you have a proven track record you've been around the block a number of times so we we know how you treat people so it's just kind of hard to hear some of these things where you pretty much and I've had years of EXP experien in customer service I I know how some people kind of characterize things but some of the characterizations seem to be way off base from what I would think and even going to some of those kind of meetings that it doesn't seem right that um I can tell you the last just for a perfect example I had two residents at the neighborhood meeting that they were very unhappy with everything I had to say which is totally understandable I I let them vent I explained to them the situation and after 3 hours of everybody that side of town not really liking me as much as they used to um they came up to me and thanked me on how professional me and Chris were and how these aren't easy I'm not trying to talk myself up I'm just saying they need to vent yeah then they come up to me afterwards and say holy man thank you for getting the word out thank you for doing these might not be what I want to hear but thank you for doing it so well nothing's appr be been presented by the the individuals that came and talked today that they made it sound like they they telling us they're telling us for the they're saying this for the first time that you you guys didn't listen or didn't hear it or you turned away or no that wouldn't be accurate as far as how the meetings are going yeah you guys are all invited to all these meetings neighborhood meetings they are more attended than they ever have been in the last five years the turnout I had this year is the best attendance I've ever had I I didn't have enough chairs there were people standing it's I don't know how much more I can get the word out and um I'll be honest new pray guy means the world to me the residents mean the world to me so I'm listening to them and I'm passing on every information I can to them um this is a one of the last is the last major this is gonna be the hardest yeah this is going to be the last real hard one they're GNA get easier exactly I'm gonna hold you to that statement time stamp said easier I'm not going to say going to be less expensive any yes I got to concur with Matt it's it's got it's gotten worse these last two years for some reason we're replacing all the electric and so in those areas too we've more disagreements I I'll call it with customers just we're upgrading everything and we're more or less doing it at no cost to them and yet they have a lot of questions and get a lot just I don't know what what it is with these last two years M we've really noticed it and I think we're going to see a little more of it this coming year yet we got one more year to get through here and then I we'll have a lot of this behind us so and I I think it comes from the top on down I mean National everybody doesn't trust that so but I got to admit you drive through those areas that we've got completed these last couple years it looks nice Welly you know with the storm I you know you look at down south and everything's above ground and just everything the sidewalks everything we really got a nice commity no I know you do we're staying the course and I give you guys credit for that excuse me who are you I know we never see you anymore it's good to see you Bruce of me after the next couple meetings here I I'll have twice tonight we were wondering who you were I stick up for you don't wor okay are you that's fine I think the sidewalk is issue has kind of gotten muddled over the years but it's kind of been established so only last thing I'll say about sidewalks I know people want to get going um I truly think they are a huge benefit to the whole city of New pre because you can go to other communities that do not have sidewalks someone that has younger kids now well younger they're 13 and 10 now but I truly did not feel safe even in new pra where I my daughter that was uh learning how to ride a bike almost got hit so you don't hear about those incidents that happened um I'm so sorry so they I thought we were leaving it's a long story short I think what you guys have made this this really hard decision on pushing sidewalks and it as much as it's hard for me to bring it up to Neighborhood meetings and get scrutinized for 3 hours it is for in my mind it's truly for the better for the whole Community MH could you tell me real quick how many uh citations or or notices do we send out to for people to have to actually repair their sidewalks because of roots growing up I sent two last year and that the first time I've ever sent them one not really so it's all it's strictly my 20 years yeah so it's strictly complaint driven yeah um there are some minor repairs that we can do ourself these two were massive repairs okay and again I think that's something we need to discuss I'm not saying that whole thing I agree upon on all of it there are some aspects I think I definitely do not dis I do not agree with um speaking of having a resident pay for one I don't think that's right okay no I I agree with you too I I just didn't think it was as pervasive a problem as no it's not and the fear there you know oh I'm going to have to redo this you know every few years and that's not the case they'll hold up for 30 years yep yeah so okay um I I know Mr why not's going to go to court next week Tuesday Tuesday is somebody going there on behalf of the city say it again somebody going there on behalf of the city it's the first hearing so we won't have to okay the other thing is is I was told by a neighbor um Thursday night that he finished digging his basement yes and I think he needs to be dealt with that way I saw saw that today on my walk the day he started bringing equipment out there we were on top of it I know Tim went out and documented but I I think it happened it did it there's a hole there is a hole yep the the guy that was all doing the lot next to it finished up his whatever agreement and can we hold the can we hold the uh excavator liable too in that matter I don't know obviously permit they didn't have a permit it's the same issue we're going to court for as the issue so like double jery well and that's why it's it's a non it's a non-p payable offense so there's could be restitution involved in that and said you have to fix this portion of that so this may be added to that and I don't know how that looks in the first here and I don't know if we'll get that I just prepared for that but there that could be a condition of this fine right that you need to fix and put back which you moved again so because I just and and I would to ask Scott if there's anything civil we would can go after him for it's he's it's a bunch of crap and he's he's destroying that neighborhood and everybody has to live by it and I I don't think nobody has to live next to somebody thats the law so my opinion only yeah so more of the violation that he was doing again okay but the city issues the occupancy T right designation so we would not even issue that right yeah okay well he he still hasn't gotten a building permit for digging the hole no where the whole violation started I know I mean do we have to issue a building permit is I guess would be my question now that he resolved I believe it would be a situation where we wouldn't but he hasn't applied for anything no I understand okay I'm off my you got it well documented okay thank you uh do you got anything else his name is Sean [Laughter] yeah no I do not my questions got answered earlier in the meeting sorry to bring up sidewalks again but um I was uh approached by a person who was in the audience today and the question is if the sidewalk is not um shoveled there's ice um there's a something that needs to be repaired and there's a slip and a fall is the homeowner responsible I don't asked our attorney we've asked this city of League of Minnesota they keep telling me over and over they we the city would not be I'm sorry the resident would not be liable home the home owner not would not be liable so thank you I just keep passing on that's what I've been told over and over and over that no they would not be liable okay that's all I have because we get that question every year at a neighborhood meeting too so okay thank you yep that's it thank you nothing again Tim I don't think so come on he hasn't been here in a while I just I just came to introduce myself this is a new hire no but real I mean to add you had that Resident that came last week that was talking about the driving and the running and almost getting yep right so I looked and we didn't have a report of any of those incidents so I think there's more of that that goes on than any of us know about right because it's a oh shoot I was that was close right so anytime you can get people off the street it's safer that's just a that's just a fact right and they have studies that prove all of that stuff and yes maybe there wasn't an accident on your street but anytime you remove pedestrians from the roadway it becomes safer for pedestrians so it's crazy how many people still walk in the street even when there is a sidewalk I see people walk in the street on the side with the sidewalk just just down the street sidewalks are so hard side by side you got to stop and drive around them them sidewalks are so hard on my Machinery if I can take the street I do it so so Rick is one of them I'm serious click click click click click and all the bolts fall off I would take a motion to adjourn so moved there's been a motion second and all in favor ever say hi hi thank you everybody