e e e we will call the town board meeting for September 4th 2024 to order first item is the agenda Patrick any changes no we're going to pull something uh just to tweak it at consent but no changes to the overall agenda Mr chair board have anything what are we going to pull we're not pulling something we'll tell you when we get to get there oh secret I know international Man of Mystery over I would like to uh add something at the end to for Township days just a brief read a brief statement that want I do that added agenda item sure okay all right anything else nope all right hearing none I need a motion to approve I'll move to approve the agenda with some secretive addition or deletion I'm going to keep my mouth shut for should I second that I will just sounds dangerous going to delete something in the consent agenda is that correct yes okay revise it revise okay okay I move to approve the revised consent or agenda second all right motion made second all in favor say I I all right item three pay the bills I signed off I'll move to approve payment of the Bills second all in favor say I I I opposed all right that carries approval the minutes from august 19 2024 anybody got any corrections looked good to me I saw none moved to approve the minutes from the meeting of August 19th second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right number five consent agenda item we have seven Mr attorney did you want to I would just uh recommend you pull U 5c just so we we can discuss it I just need a quick revision recommend a quick revision to it that's all that's 5c is in Charlie yes yes that your new business um yeah might yeah you new business place for it but it's will be very quick board okay with everything else yep yes you want me to move approval of the agenda as amended I'll second that all in favor say I I I opposed all right so you want to pull that as 5c this is the videographic contract right videographer oh sorry Mr chair I knew it was a secret for some reason all right we have no old business we have no public hearings so we'll move on to eight is a new business uh Highway 96 quarter Landscape Maintenance discussion yeah Mr chair I did bring this up to the board at our executive work session a couple weeks ago um the board did request that I get some more information in your package you'll see some correspondance between myself and the administrator at Badness Heights I also just wanted to add that we did find um a Cooperative agreement with Ramsey County and the township uh regarding construction and maintenance of those medians um this is a request coming from vness height though to split cost of I guess revitalizing those those medians M and I'm not sure if that changes the context of the agreement that we have with Ramsey County I would before we make any kind of a decision or Commitment if you're even interested in it um I would advise that the township attorney review the co-op agreement and see if it uh going in on a new median with Badness would violate any of those terms so but as it stands right now what vness has requested of us is splitting a cost of approximately $100,000 to revitalize um and replace uh what's uh growing there with uh native grass and species along those lines that require very little maintenance right now our Public Works crew does very little if any maintenance with those um and I guess the the goal uh with the native species there is to maintain M it or to maintain a small level of commitment to maintaining those so anyway the the the co-op agreement I found was from December 8th 1998 um and actually includes us and vness uh between us and Ramsey County um so from my perspective um I'm I'm interested in myself I'm interested in hearing more about it but yes I'd like Chad to look at that to make sure okay uh that that was the agreement I mean I was totally unaware that there was a maintenance agreement obviously we all are and that 100,000 is that our portion of the contri it's half so that 50 and and they they have a landscaper that is given them a bid for 100,000 correct cuz you know I don't just saw it suppose we should probably see that right probably should see that that is that the only bid or did they put it out for bids and that was the lowest yeah I mean it's normally our procedure and what included is that concrete work or just tree replacement concrete work and replacement of herbs all that faers okay yeah I'd like to see okay yeah like whole package didn't when the road was when they were done didn't the county do that and we just did the Landscaping they did all the concrete they did all the work and then they turned it us back to us call to maintain it okay but that would only be maintaining Landscaping Green Space why are we why are we chipping in for concrete and Pap it's part of the median but yeah I see your point I I don't that that to me seems like that shouldn't be our deal well if it if it was a I'm not sure though if it was a turnback though once once that's done then it's if the terms say it's our responsibility to fix it that the same problem we're going to face on the boulevard if but I don't now that's why we need to know if it is really a turn back or we just agree to maintain their Island well it was turned back from a state aid road to a County Road and then turned over to the the medians apparently it looks like to so we own the medians no okay then then they're not our medians we didn't build them so I'm back to not quite that easy yeah Chad would you please in my brain it is would you please review the contract and report back to us because sheview and Arden Hills have the same issues all the way down Yes except they consistently maintain their medians it appears to be the case yes especially sh view does yeah um now Dale did also caution us that um to make sure that if we do go the way of getting into this uh co-op with adness that we end that Co-op at the railroad tracks yeah it's the Border that's fair okay thanks Al V has had a heavier duty of Maintenance because they have the noise while on their side y that includes me I think you're right all right well uh are you looking for a motion to well actually you know what let me let's let's table this I you know it's not going to happen this year anyway um let me get the beds that uh Kevin and vness put out and what they got in return and have Chad review the co-op agreement just to make sure we're not going to be outside the the terms so guess like I said I would like to see if that was their only bid or if they put it for bids okay what it includes what what what's the nature of what kind of planting that's all fair and I apologize I should have asked him for that so but anyway well he said just give it a fresh look so I guess that we're giving it a fresh look yeah a lot of ash trees yeah not so much no not anymore all right so I'd make a motion to table this the first meeting in October uh let me see if I can get it the second meeting here in September it's pretty busy but okay yeah I'll try if I can't yeah we'll get it in October I need a second on the motion I'll second that I'll favor say I thanks opposed all right moving on Rams County Sheriff's Office contract service agreement this is Chad's input on our current reup with rcso did you see my uh notes my comments yes any questions about those comments at all uh is this all right not so much the comments I saw those very good uh uh is this a changes to the current contract so these are actually as I understand this is more or less the first time they've actually drafted a contract okay yeah so and Chad I guess the answer your question Tom if I'm understanding it right Chad's comments are the changes that we would suggest to this comments right going to be a man question I see the comments and you're recommending we discuss or well let's if I can go with quickly sure um 3.3 I mean the question there is if there's a uh any kind of issue about Personnel assignments or you know in general the with the exception of maybe requesting a replacing replacing or switching uh deputies whatever decision they make that's it they cover everything which is probably acceptable for certain inter departmental Personnel issues but there may be issues that well I'll give you an example like I said I did give an example is what happens if they um if they decide the deputies decide well okay Mike needs a needs a deputy to help him with an inspection they decide we're not going to do it you're the way this is written there's no discussion they make a decision that's it so would this contract be coming from the Ramsey County Attorney's office that is that I'm sure it did sure it did that's theirs so in your point I think is well taken is um is there some something you would recommend to draft in there for consideration that would give us at least a panel to review it versus take it or leave it would probably be what we' really looking for is not I I prefer to deal this is the kind of issue I want to deal with ahead of time so that it's clear that if Mike needs help they'll be there um more of a proactive report you know I would like to be proactive on this issue but the dispute did come up in shv regarding whether or not they'd assist the uh the uh building codes uh Department in sheview with a uh with an enforcement action so that's why well I agree with it doing it up front but I mean is there language that you could recommend to put in here that would help alleviate that or at least off the top of my head no but I can come up some language for the next meeting um and I'm not I I wanted to get it in front of you guys too because this is the first contract that um has been presented this way since I've been here um and I'm not sure how we go about making suggested changes to their proposed contract well again that's why I asked if it was Ramsey County Attorney's Office find out who the contact person is there and have some discuss dialogue between our our councel and RAM on the issues that kind of give us a little pause and see if there's an understanding because if that's hasn't been a contract in the past it's their first attempt at it also and they may realize after Chad's uh commentary that maybe there is room for uh language that will make us less so the the the um what Chad was referring to uh with Shore View um the the the deputies in their hesitancy to go on site with Mike and troubled properties and that kind of thing have referenced that the RCs or the Ramsey County attorney has recommended that they don't um I think that's going to be a tough battle well we're a contract of theirs and and and that's our law enforcement I I I totally get it so that's why I said it it might be best that it's easy for an attorney sitting in downtown St Paul not out in the real world other than hearing one side to come up with this conclusion where maybe it'll shed a little light on the reality that we're dealing with I hate to be dumping stuff on you to do Chad but I I I more I thought about it after I got off the phone from you about this the other day I I think that's probably the best course no that's fine I mean I don't I'll talk to of you let's go through the other things you recommend I I think that that's a good example um okay 4.2 is the question you know we indentify them uh but they don't identify the township or the town board and I talked about this with uh Joe Kelly and as he sees it really because we're it's a contract situation we're not really responsible how they do things but that's not the point the point is is not are we responsible is can we get drawn into a lawsuit M and really they should be if we get named as a def as a uh defendant in an act due to an action of a of a deputy then they ought to identify us it's that simple again we can talk to I can talk to the attorneys about that I mean it's the we would probably get dismissed pretty on a mo you know pretty quickly but still someone has to pay for the cost of getting dismissed does this why should it be the township yeah does with getting named in lawsuit would that be covered under our insurance I would say it probably does but I I can't say for sure but I would normally I would expect it would be okay is this contract the same as all the other contract cities they're getting the same thing they're getting the same contract have you had feedback from any of them I talked to Joe Kelly about it and um he didn't see a problem with um he's already had an issue with them already uh with with the County Attorney at least in terms of what I recommend the 3.3 4.2 he didn't see a problem there because the fact we're you know it's a contract situation um in terms of 6.2 yes he saw the same problem I saw which is well I don't want to be too cynical but there's absolutely no you know how do we know how they're shifting costs internally we pay you to be cynical jet yeah well that's my job uh so I that's that's the concern there is there's the way it's written is the the Contracting uh municipalities have no say in how they shift their internal cost around they could be front loing this you know they could be shifting a lot of cost onto the sheriff who then shifts it onto the uh municipalities now naturally we don't pick up all their costs so the sheriff does have some incentive to uh to uh question how costs are being shifted but there's not that much incentive that we we need to be concerned about that and personally I don't know how we'd handle that one because I mean I see why they're doing what they're doing they're B saying look at we have you know we have costs that are outside the sheriff's department yep that relate but we have we have expenses related to operating the sheriff's department that don't appear in the sheriff's budget per se so I can understand that to a point but my again my concern is would the county be tempted to shift costs to the sheriff for the sole purpose of having uh the Contracting municipalities bear a higher burden of expenses I got to go back to the beginning here we've had Rams County Sheriff's Department for a long time time what kind of contract have we had previously none that I know of we just signed a a yeah we sign a piece of paper you're a sheriff department pretty much you dropped a resolution and that's it no those days are gone yeah really yeah I mean it's for it is really for everyone's best interest to have a contract so you have terms of agreement totally agree so the best step if this is the first goal round is I still think is for Chad to um dig into it with those that be and if he's got other municipalities that are in the same situation their issue should be pretty well the same um so I I guess what I think what not to speak for Chad here but I think what Chad needs to know is if there's any additional comments plus what he has submitted here uh get them to him quickly and um I know I know you're going to go home and read every word of this contract and come up with your thoughts and recommendations but could we can we uh have them submit us an actual line item budget for their expenditures so we can see we we have that oh yeah all right so we see what the breakdown is for us and what it all includes yeah we do um so does that include all of a sudden a raise because they decide to build a new Sheriff's building I don't know it's a complicated did formula Ed I yeah oh you're right now Tomy you better take that one you got the contract you got I'm guessing that there's many deeper issues than just this but when the because the sheriff's budget has has ex it's gotten out of hand at times according to the County attorneys or the Ramsey County Commissioner saying that he thinks he needs a larger budget and he may be bringing up things that and then they find out he doesn't have a contract so they're trying to to pin it down as to who's paying for what so I right now it's open-ended typically in the past um I've presented the proposed budget from the Sheriff's Office to the Safety Committee and they've just kind of you saluted and and Tom works it into his budget um if you'd like I'll put it in for executive committee at the end of this month just as an FYI and if we want to have discussion on it we're absolutely but outside of that Chad needs to get or have a discussion with the attorney there on this contract specific before the 13th of October no of September oh oh for our budget purpose yeah so because when you move on to 6.3 this is more insurance coverage again so it sounds like a lot of this is centered around who's going to pay what when the things go south well and that's the problem with Self Insurance Steve you're you're the expert in that area so I defer to you on that yeah that is a that is a problem because it's a it's a shift and and they don't they they're trying to figure out how much they're going to have to share the burden of or how much than they push off on to contract cities who have some insurance but we don't want it to be open-ended either on this so he needs to do some work quickly I guess and you know did Steve did you read 6.3 I did and I my concern is the fact that with self- insurance are we going to be held responsible for any for a share of any settlement they make um well that's the why I asked about our own insurance where that's going to dovetail into this because we we lose control we we lose control of what we'll do because we have insurance and they if they say you're going to pay a million we're going to pay a million dollars and your portion is well where's our insurance at this we can't we cannot tie our insurance company to any settlement without their involvement so it's complicated and when I first when I read that I thought about it and thought were they referring only to you know insurance premiums they pay for their what Surplus lines I don't are they talking about the whole whole thing well see I I don't un clear it's unclear and limited to automobile general liability insurance cost to this cost or the cost of a self-insurance program the City of Minneapolis for example is self-insured all the George Floyd stuff settlements come out of the taxpayers Coffer that's a self insurance program right they don't have any we as a municipality we have IL leue of cities that step in our behalf and pay up to our liability limits for what damages we would be held for so I think what I should do is I should running this Clause past uh that language past the uh League the League's uh Insurance trust yeah CU you can't commit them to anything but I would say that's the same for all the contract cities they all if they're all parties to the league they would have the same issue um when's your next meeting Patrick what's that when's your next uh meting I was just GNA say it's the third Thursday this September so what's that the 19th so you you're going to hear some grumbling with the other contract cities yep so they they are asking for it by the 13th so that we could have a discussion about it at our next meeting so I'll get it done okay those are my thoughts on the contract I think they're sound I think we salute you Chad i i c see what happens so realistically there's two big issues one is insurance and the other is unknown costs passed down to us that we have we don't really have any uh say in because we don't know what we're paying for no and we don't know how they're shifting costs internally that's the big thing it is okay all right to be continued y so uh what's the DAT today today is 4th so I don't know can this wait till our exact meeting yeah so we meet on the 16th here so it's kind of that's a board meeting yeah we don't we tell the let's see well unless you know something beforehand or if you got a better understanding what's going on get an answer I'll let you I'll I'll I'll okay inform patters right away but uh I'm not expecting to get a fast answer simply because I mean we're talking about some fundamental you know policy issues so they have to discuss internally all right down 911 it'll be faster yeah right all right you want to go back to uh the consent agenda item 5c yeah oh yeah and that's pretty easy um basically the only issue I had uh let me get back to it here just added some in fact I've already added the uh Lisa and I spoke about this Patrick and Lis and I spoke about this before the meeting and we've got the language pretty well figured out um let me find it for you oh I pulled it out here we go it's over here all right it it deals with scope of work and it um here's here's the concern I had was it says okay first of all there's a flat rate for meetings less 3 hours or less MH then it says meetings exceeding 3 hours will be build at the standard hourly rate well is that the entire meeting or the portion of the meeting that exceeds three hours and that's what that's what uh we that's what Lisa's understanding was that it's that a if the meeting exceeds 3 hours that every hour or part of an hour after that will be build at the the standard hourly rate mhm so we just added that language and that's all we did okay well we don't get any credit for 15minute meetings no afid [Laughter] not oh well there goes that motivation darn but Lisa has to stay for two hours so you want to get your money's worth I guess we got to go longer yeah we'll just hang out and stare at each other for okay but that's that was the only that's the only problem other than that the contract's fine okay based upon those revisions we would recommend the exact thank you yeah recommend approval yep I'll second that I'll move that all right all in favor um Mr chair I did forget to add something to our agenda too late and we can do it after Mr RX but I would uh like to have a discussion about parking on H2 in Otter Lake Road oh make that under our Sheriff's contract we'll make that 9B after Township day all right moving on uh you want to hand us Steve Township days sure uh our event coordinator uh has prepared a little statement that I said I would read uh for the our viewers on television our uh mark your calendars for our annual Whitebear Township celebration SE select are scheduled for Saturday September 21st 2024 the celebration will be at polar Lake Park from 2: p.m. to 8:00 p.m. free admission and parking uh the day is filled with family friendly activities including live music food trucks beer gardens kids area a vendor Market an automotive car show Bingo and more and to finish the day there will be a spectacular fireworks at dusk we know it'll be spectacular of course so the the main band is called hurricane Blaze uh it does a lot of karaoke music so a lot of people can join in and get wound up for the I'll go if Chad goes no showb well there is another highlight okay we'll have Chad up there forward to it doing that just before the national anthem I bet which will be at 8:00 prior to 5:00 our board chair has uh promised that he would U say a few words for us and uh it should be a fun day um we like I said we've got arts and crafts and bingos sky dancing music Inflatables kids rides um cars Galore cars Galore trcks been very fortunate over the last four or five years weather's just been outstanding it has I haven't looked at the long-term forecast because it's too soon but um that it seems like that's a great time of the year to have it the only problem is there's a lot of stuff going on so we're we're competing with a lot of different outside venues at that time of the year too but it's a great to come and celebrate our Township all we have to offer and a lot of hard work has went into this so come and enjoy that's it okay okay all right Patrick you want to bring us up the speed on the parking on H2 in arake road yeah so this came from a conversation with uh supervisor rusic this last week regarding parking out on H2 and Otter Lake uh Road um we've had had issues with um people parking on both sides of the road through there uh parking illegally um outside the frame of time that it's allowed um just a variety of things that the board has expressed concern regarding possible inj injury or death from people walking or running in and out of between the cars when they're double parked like that um two weekends ago we had an issue with um parking on up on the grass um on by the fields and that kind of thing that it's just kind of it's gotten to the point where you know supervisors are getting calls from residents uh regarding what they're seeing uh staff has been getting it pretty heavily um we've had opportunity this uh summer to put up our electronic billboard out there in advance of the events it's mostly softball it is softball um telling it people they can't park on both sides that kind of stuff that seems to work pretty well but both Ed and Steve have expressed concerned about liability um uh in the event that there is injuries or accidents or out there um the signs that are put out on Otter Lake Road and H2 where they come to a corner um right there where the where the softball fields are um are not our signs those are put there by Ramsey County um Chad should we I mean should we let our CSO or just the county in general know that that's their responsibility to be policing if you will um and that they should a resident should stop calling supervisors elected officials Andor staff and it should go to dispatch with bramy County yeah and they're they're County Roads that we have no jurisdiction over them okay um so that's the way it should be done okay unfortunately practically we got still still have an issue to deal with but yeah I mean the county has got to step up on this okay Steve you you were saying about getting some kind of a memo to the county well I think I think we should we should put it in writing to the county that that it's a safety hazard and it's their responsibil ability um if that's contacting the association and and telling them they can't do it sending the sheriff's cars there but but I think it's dangerous for uh for the township to to step in as as the an enforcement saying you can't park here that's not our role and responsibility it's not our road um I do realize on Otter Lake Road that that is a window of time when they can park and window when they can't park and the signs are clearly marked H2 is the problem because the South Side the tamarak nature side clearly has no parking parking and it worked well with our sign out there for the two weekends but soon as that went away they another weekend they went right back to parking and and the danger it's a 40 mph stretch through there and any little kid late for a ball game comes out between those cars is going to get clipped mhm and it's well besides sending something to the county like I said we should send something to the ball Association and and the school the school's got something to say about this they're the ones farming out their fields for these these you know uh ball teams they got to be able to step in too because until these people com into these ball games whether it's through the association or whatever are told you you got to stop doing that the last time we had a cop out there they were lined up he said I'm not going to ticket all of them because there's too many well that doesn't make any sense so one guy breaks a lot 20 breaks a lot well I'll just let them all go no and I don't like the way it just says no parking I'd like to see something a little bit better no parking enforcable by fines Towing whatever you can't just put no parking they go oh big deal they're going to park anyway until they get a ticket yeah but we're not ticketing that's the problem but we need to be if they're not well I think that's the message and the bigger problem is simple fact that once you take responsibility for something liability follows yeah that's why we don't want to but they could step up a little too that's what we're paying for that's why we're rewriting their contract could you put that in the contract Chad conratulations start writing parking tickets um I I you know struggled a little bit with this after I had the conversation with Steve last week just because uh in particular during events here rcso is really helpful I mean our cleanup day they're great uh the last four years have been terrific they managed traffic for us and everything Township day they're here I mean they were great during hockey day all that kind of stuff I don't want to aggravate them so much and but well I don't know that's an aggravation how about just enforc the parking lots I don't know how how it can be aggravating all you really need to sell tell the county is you know we've been receiving con complaints and we're concerned about about the parking on H2 and Otter Lake Road during these during events and we really need to discuss how that's going to be handled so let me do this um I'll draft a memo I'll send it to Chad for his approval we'll get them as of right now to the school the Softball Association Sheriff's Office should we get it to the attorney's office too they probably want to know about it too because that's a liability on their part too okay um but in the meantime until we get some movement on that we do have fall ball go going all the way through September um I think I'm just going to have Public Works put the electronic billboard out again and notify the Sheriff's Office and let the Softball Association know that they're not supposed to park on both sides of the road there's plenty of there is a big parking lot it's it's just that's what I don't understand choose not to use it I know plus that do they realize there's parking I know it's behind the school you know You' have to little more exercise there's plenty is so a matter of convenience so I the other thing so what I'll do when I let Softball Association know about the steps were taken for this weekend I'll let them know to remind visitors that there is plenty of parking behind the school and that they should utilize that um for now let's just do that in the meantime Chad and I will hammer out some kind of a memo I mean ideally they know who if it's a tournament they know which teams are coming yeah they should have a list of of things that they should tell the coaching of coaches of each team y that this is is a no parking area please make sure your parents of your teams are aware so there's no no uh I didn't know that well they do know that if they're told in documents yeah I would suggest that what you say is if we're going to put if the Public Works going put that sign out that you send an email to the sheriff saying to assist you in enforcing traffic laws on I st a whole lot different but you're more that's we will put sign out if you prefer we do not put that sign out we will not yeah I want the county to take responsibility for the sign you'll hear crickets well at least we told them but at least we've got it and in the record yeah Y no I think it's a good idea okay got it thank you yeah because I don't want to be having this discussion after a incident no it's clearly marked we're trying to do everything we possibly canul yeah that's what they're there for might not like them but follow them they have to do with me everything yeah exactly all right okay thanks folks um open time we got a full house we must be doing an okay job yeah I need a motion to receive agenda materials and supplements so moved second fa say I I I need a motion to adjourn at 7:37 who Moved second all F say I I um I'm