[Music] Oh. Oh. [Music] Ooh. Ooh. Oh. Oh. [Music] Oh. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] N. hey baby hey [Music] hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey [Music] Back home. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] N. Heat. Heat. [Music] Okay. [Music] Hello. Hello. [Music] Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Down. [Music] Oh. Oh. Oh. [Music] Oh okay. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Hey, hey hey. [Music] Hey hey hey. [Music] Birthday. [Music] Gavalus into order. Uh and uh we have one excused absence. Uh council member Jones uh is is uh not in town. Everybody else um is here. So we will start it. Uh the fir this is the uh yard waist center is the first item on the agenda and we have uh Mr. Gregory Jenkins the second. Good afternoon for the second day in a row here. Right. All right. Um mayor, council, city manager. Uh my name is Gregory Jenkins the second. I'm the interim director of solid waste services. This afternoon I'm going to be speaking to you about organics management feasibility study. The purpose of this presentation is to narrow down options uh for you to narrow down some options for us uh so that staff can get a more detailed and budget uh projections for future conversations. Uh we will review a brief history of the project to date. We will assess the current landscape of the food waste composting in the triangle region. We will be sharing uh processing and collection option considerations and we'll be closing out with a request from council for guidance to inform the next steps and then we will open it up for questions and discussion. A little bit about the background. The official request to include food waste composting into the city's uh waist stream began in 2023. Uh we contracted with SCS engineers and began a feasibility assessment in February of 2024 uh to identify proposed options for including food waste into our collection and processing operations for solid waste services. The existing landfill collects over 99,000 tons per year. Nearly 25% of the waste is food waste and that's based off of information from Wake County and the EPA. Current the current landfill is estimated to have a lifespan of 20 years or less before it reaches capacity. Uh conservative estimates uh estimates that a potential to divert 6% of food waste could happen annually. This could extend the life of the landfill providing financial and environmental co- benefits to the city. The current landscape uh presents significant operational challenges in efficiency and effectiveness to collecting and processing food waste within the county. The city does not currently offer food waste collection services um or operates a food waste processing facility. The Yaw Waist Center has been identified as a likely location to bring food waste processing online, but it would require a significant site improvements and technology upgrades. For collection, Wake County has two to three food waste drop off locations with limitations for use. Residents can opt in to a subscription service for curbside collection through a third party for a fee. the processing uh for local uh compost vendors, Wake County, the town of Kerry, etc. currently take their collected food waste to Brooks Contract in Golston. Now, we will transition to considering the process required to incorporate food waste into our collection and processing to the city's service offerings. Composting requires two distinct operational improvements. One, collections. How will solid waste service collect transport food waste from residential or public locations to processing. Once the food is collected, where and how will it be processed. Now we will discuss the processing. Here is a map of the compost processing facilities in our region. McGill Mary Oats, 30 miles away, one way from the yardway center, accepts food waste, but has a limited capacity. NC State research, well, NC State has a small facility and only processes food waste related to the university and Brooks Contractor in Goston is 60 mi one direction and is the most utilized by third party contractors operating in Wake County. opportunity. The yard waist center presents a great opportunity to expand this service and benefit the residents and business. If the city move forward with upgrading the yard waste center as a food waste processing facility, a significant gap will be filled while reducing vehicle miles traveled for transporting food waste out of the county. The facility would would need to be upgraded and permit modified to accept food waste on a large scale, but a small pilot could be tested prior to making a large investment. Site improvements for storm water and other needs are already in the budget in the CIP for future years. In order to consider the feasibility of the yard waste center to to accept and process food waste, staff recommend exploring an initial pilot to test food waste quantities, the compost mix and recipe operations, and final compost product. Case studies demonstrate starting small and working up yields the best results. Because food waste is already being collected by a third-party vendor, the center could accept food waste as part of a pilot without incurring any expans any expansion in collection operations. Our current permit will allow for a short-term pilot collections. Now that we've discussed the infrastructure improvement needs, let's transition to the operational concerns with food waste collections. For collections, we'll discuss three options demonstrating a range of cost of investment and operational requirements. Staff recommends the following approach to piling a processing program. Piling a processing program that will start similar to what we start. Let me got tongue tied on that. We will pilot it very similar to our processing program where we will start small and work our way up. Uh this approach will lessen the upfront capital and personnel investment. The city could install a food waste convenience site strategically located throughout the city. 18 to 20 locations could fully cover the city and yield the desired collection amounts. Service in the bins could be managed by either the city or a third party. The next option would be to establish a contract with an existing vendor that already has curbside subscription services to residents. This would be a benefit to the city for open offering a local processing at the yardway center and the city would benefit by offsetting the need to expand operational expenses. the city. And the third option would be for the city to uh when which would be the also the largest will be to actually collect curbside which will be a huge investment. In order to accommodate curbside collection for the best practice and management, solid waste will need to acquire and distribute a fourth bin to each residents. Adding a fourth bin will will flow uh will require an assessment to impact staffing routes vehicle infrastructure, customer service, and more. So our request in front of council today is to help us by giving us a little direction and which option do you want us to further explore? Questions and discussion. All right. Thank you so much for the presentation, Council Harris. Yeah, thank you so much. Really excited to see uh this study done and to see the various options. Um this was one of my first requests when I came on council. Um and just to understand what are some of the challenges and opportunities to start collecting our food waste. Um I just want to note, you know, again, 25% of what is going to the landfill is food waste. That's 25,000 tons per year. Um, it's crazy. So, I think there's a lot of opportunities to be more sustainable and hopefully also reduce costs and lengthen our time for that landfill. Um, I know Marshelle thinks I'm going to create a mutiny if I we get rid of trash from every week, which she might be right. Um but if we start with something that is more um reasonable in terms of helping folks get you know reduced their waste then we might start seeing a change. So um I'm just really excited about some of these opportunities the pilot. Um I was looking at the memo that came from the third party consultant and it looked like they were recommending scenario two which was a separate food waste collection going to the yard waste center. Can you tell me about you know what they're recommending um and some of the reasons for that? So um one was uh so there were first let me say that there was a lot of options within the full feasibility study. Um I don't remember each one of those my brain was still on the budget but I think one of the options that they did recommend was a combining of yard waste and food into the same bin to reduce to have not to add another bin. Um but then we run into problems with how we do mulch and compost out there currently, right? And then um and then that would create a whole another process. So I think what we were trying to do here was come up with some options that we thought were feasible given our current makeup of operations and also to minimize the impact to our customers. Thank you. Did you have a Yeah. So definitely thank you for for the presentation. Um, option three for me is is a no. Um, I'm I'm really looking at option one or two. And the reason for three being a no for me is it's I think budget-wise as far as growth and the scale which we're growing, it it's a heavy lift. Also, I think our residents are canned out um as far as the number of cans we're receiving. And then my other issue is on the collection side, contamination. Um we we can we already know we're having issues with contamination with our current recycling and I feel if we say hey this is just for food people going to throw in there what they want to throw in there and then that brings another work additional workload. So those are my reasonings for for not feeling comfortable with option three. I would look be comfortable with a hybrid between one and two though where we have drop off loca locations plus there's a third party option. I know this is a pilot and that may be something longterm but that's kind of where I land um between these three options. Great councelor Silver. Well, first thank you for the uh presentation. Uh I would support the drop off location. uh many places that start composting. Uh I'm not saying all uh these are committed residents that understand the need uh for addressing the waist stream and you have to be intentional to one put your food waste uh in a receptacle and then take it to a drop off location. If there is high success for the drop off location, uh it seems like there is support to look at the next step. Uh I just believe it's having 18. I don't know how close that will be if we find locations uh throughout the city. Uh something tells me it may be near either a city-own site, public right away, or a park. But I would support that approach as a way since this is a pilot. I think it's very easy to uh transition to something larger over that pilot period is over just to see how the public is responding to helping address um our capacity at the landfill but also helping our environment. My question is um some places I know uh when I served as commissioner New York City parks we had a partnership uh to do composting in many of our park facilities. The compost what do you do with it after because there's a use. So we just understand it's not just you know a lot of people use it for fertilizing. We used it in our parks for a lot of our gardens and trees and flower beds. So just to know what happens with the compost during this pilot period. What do you do with that? Um well we'll probably use it internally throughout the city. Um because we don't know how much we're going to be producing, right? we don't know how much we're going to collect and so we would probably not make any major commitments to sell any of it. Just try to figure out internal ways of using it um you know in our gardens and parks and things like that and maybe help out some community gardens. But I think what during the pilot process is just mostly trying to see how much can we build up, right? And in terms of just staff resources cuz again because I was familiar with the operations, it's very labor intensive to constantly monitor and turn in barrels. It it is a huge operation. So with this pilot, are are you fully um going in eyes wide open with how labor intensive this could be not knowing the volume of what you may receive? Yes. Uh we eyes wide open, but that's why we calling it a pilot, too. Um because I've had conversations with with Evan Riley sitting in the back about the word pilot, but um but we really want to we want to try it. see what happens and then you know come back with our findings. Um again we don't know uh we know we do compost and we got wind rows now you know we do a lot of this stuff not for food waste but for you know your lawn and lawn clippings and trees and stuff like that but I I do think that uh we have the capacity right now given what we estimate for us to manage it. Last question and then I'll yield to my colleagues. Uh it is an interesting operation to see. You actually had an image where you do see smoke emanating from the piles of composting in terms of proximity to residential because there are some compost that is associated with let's just say an aroma. Uh so just want to know in terms of its location, its proximity to residential. Um have you looked at Yeah. Yeah. We it's not it's not u there is a um mobile home park on the back side of the yardway center. We really don't get a lot of complaints from them. We do everything we can to minimize from the wind rows that we currently have. Okay. And so, you know, I think really what we try to do is make sure that we don't have any fires that initiate from those things because I think that is what we've heard most complaints about. Councelor Patton. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Wilders Grove is in like a pretty industrial area. Um, yeah, thanks for this. This is really exciting. I actually use compost now as a private citizen and and um find it very easy to utilize and comply with. It's it's all food as opposed to like home composting which is very intensive. You have to manage like green to brown and not any cooked food. But but the commercial level operations that we're talking about are very easy to comply with. just like all the food can go in there. Um I think for me option two or three are the ones that are palatable. I think based on the numbers you've provided 25% of waste is that going that's going to the landfill is food. Like that's a huge amount of waste and I think we'll have the highest fidelity if this is happening in cycle with people's regular um collections. I think when we put something I mean we we we have the Wake County convenience centers now and it's like they have a compost now drop off but that hour is not always open and uh even times when not people I think people are on non-compliant with disposing of their batteries and their household can waste construction for the same reasons like it we call it a convenience center but it is still an inconvenience to residents. So, I would be I would not want us to be calling something a pilot and then have a lack of fidelity from residents that then tells us, "Oh, well, guess residents just don't want to compost." Um, so I would be interested in things that are like options that are curbside, so either option two or option three. I also think that like uh contract like committing forever to contracting to a third party is maybe not um I think it puts us at risk of like their own price escalations that we don't have control over. So I think I could in my in my ideal scenario we'd use the third party to to test to train to educate the public and then we would ultimately and in time and perhaps in a less inflationary environment move to to managing the the food waste ourselves. So that's kind of where I'm at. Yep. Councelor Lambert Melton, I just wanted to add uh agree with a lot of what I'm hearing at the table. I think knowing it's a pilot, we want to be able to collect as much data as possible. So, I agree with council member Branch that maybe an hybrid option between options one and two could be good. Uh that way we have the data from doing the uh collections piece and then the drop off piece and that may help us make an informed decision about whether we want to ultimately take it inhouse in the future. The only thing I will say is um probably echo council member Branch as well. I think about the way some of our smaller, older, more established communities are set up. They really just cannot have I mean, they don't have the space for another cart probably around the house or either to put out on the curb. I mean, it would be interesting to see how many people participate if you did have that service, but I just don't see how we can feasibly um put that into place right now. Uh I'm in agreement with trying to do a hybrid between one and two just to see, you know, how it works. um going forward. And then you know maybe in the future we give residents an option like if you want to have the additional service you like opt in for a nominal fee to get a cart and then you're like committing to being able to take it to the curb and do all that stuff. But that wasn't the option that you brought us today because I say if that was the option if people wanted to do it we just let folks opt in pay for a cart and then you know you know how many people wanted to participate. But that would really be my preference, but that's not what you put in front of us. So, you know. Yep. Councelor P. Sorry. I'll just add in if I don't know if you can go to the um the compost now slide that you have if it's helpful for folks like the little bin. It's it's very small. Like it's not a a rolloff cart. So, if that maybe that makes that a more palatable option for for these smaller communities, like it's not another bin that you got to put in your backyard. it's just kitchen sized. Um, and I will say as a like as a user of the service, um, to the point about an eventual cultural shift away from landfill waste, it does leave our regular trash very dry and not smelly because it doesn't have food in it. So, we sometimes don't even put out our landfill trash except every other week just because it doesn't fill and it doesn't get stinky and rancid and and I know we're not we're not every use case, but you know, some people have baby diapers and stuff like that, but by and large because our food is going elsewhere, our landfill trash is staying dry. So, but anyway, I just wanted to make sure everyone had seen that. It's like a It's a really small bin, so might make it more palatable to address that um concern about the size on people's yards and stuff. So, I'll I'll weigh in, too. But I I'm very excited. We're talking about this. Um it is of great importance to um divert all of this. I would probably go with the um I can't imagine doing a whole other role. I I even with the smaller bin, it it that seems like a lot. So I I kind of like the the other um the drop off or and the third party um myself as well. I do think where you do the drop offs I would agree with councelor Patton like going to convenience center like that is a hour round trip for me. There's just no way I would take food waste up there. But like if you had it at a far the farmers market at, you know, lots of different convenient locations um around with, you know, some knowledge of citizens and obvious successful. Um so um I'm glad we're looking at this and um open to you know the best practices on how to uh collect this data. But thank you. Yeah, I just want to weigh in on these different options. Um, I think because it's a pilot, you know, I don't have a really strong, you know, opinion on how we start. I think the main thing to me is that it's accessible to folks. So that there isn't an undue, especially a high cost like financial cost if someone wants to participate. So I think having the free drop off location is very important. all the third-party collections. There is a cost to it that I have found hard to stomach u myself. So that's why I do it at home and I you know sort all the my food waste and yell at my husband tell what are you doing? Um but he he learns a little bit and uh uh so I know it's a challenge. Um and I think before I would want to move to City of Raleigh collections, I'd want to see cost figures and understand what that would take. You were just mentioning how you've been able to bring down vacancy rates, but I know hours are going longer for your staff. So, I think understanding other impacts to the rest of your operations would be important. And may I have one more comment. Steven's going to kill me. He's got his glasses off and everything. Um but you know may maybe considering like a um partnership with parks and so you'd have a place so because there's so many parks and um in Raleigh and they're pretty much close to every community that may be a way to to start the pilot just having a facility or a receptacle at each park loc. Look at Stephen. I'm need Where's Chief Boyce? I'm need to escort out the building today. Um, but that may be something to give some consideration to maybe doing some type of partnership with the park system since that would be a convenient location for most residents. It's just a thought. Y, just one last thing because I know you weren't in your role this time. We did a pilot for clothing and materials. So, as you're going through this pilot, I would look at that data and that information as well. um we did a pilot, went through it and we're not doing it anymore for for the obvious reasons, you know, based on the data information. So, I just want to mention that as something that you can pull from from a previous pilot where we try to pull trash out of trash right? Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So next we have loose leaf collection. Come pick it up. Good afternoon mayor, members of council. My name is Steve Hollyy. I'm with the department of transportation. I am the assistant director over the transportation maintenance functions. Uh so I oversee the street maintenance operations, storm water maintenance operations, and of course leaf collection. Happy to be here today to have a discussion about the city's loose leaf collection program and discuss some options for the future of the program. Today we will cover the challenges with the existing loose leaf collection program. I'll provide you with an overview of the current program. I will also provide an overview of the current yard waste collection program and again we will talk about some options to consider for the future of the programs. The leaf collection program has certainly had its share of challenges and is probably the main reason why I'm here today. Um so what are those challenges? Uh the demands of the loose leaf collection program outpace available resources. There have been no significant changes to the program since 2011. This has led to the time between schedule pickups increasing as the program grows. Collections that happen. Yes. Could you also just say when was it in inception of this program in the city? So, I have done extensive research in city council minutes going back to the 70s and it references changes to the program, but I was not able to find any definitive data on when it started or why. Okay. Unfortunately, thank you. No problem. Um, so like I was saying, um, the time between scheduled pickups has increased as the program has grown. Uh collections that happen early in the schedule can happen before leaves fall. And collections that happen late in the schedule can lead to our favorite things, uh streets being blocked, parking being blocked, bike lanes being blocked, storm drains being clogged and blocked for extended periods of time. So all of this continues to lead to dissatisfaction with the residents of Raleigh. Between 2010 and 2023, the loose leaf collection program had has added an estimated 14,000 new collection points through the addition of over 14,000 new single family homes. The map on the left demonstrates the building permits and their distribution throughout the city as well as new land areas that have been added to the city limits. So, as I was saying, there there is a wellocumented history of challenges with the program based on my research of city council minutes going back to the 1980s and 1990s. We had discussions with the council on resident dissatisfaction with the program, mainly the schedule and the timing of passes and the number of overall passes. uh that led to changes to the schedule and additional equipment being added to the program. Moving forward to the 2010s and 2020s, we have continued those conversations with council on resident dissatisfaction with the schedule again based on the timing of loose leaf collection passes as well as the overall number of passes. staff has provided enhancement options over that period of time, but no significant changes have been made. So, just to give you a little bit of an overview of our current program, uh, as I said, this program is delivered by the Department of Transportation. We utilize 61 total staff members with 48 full-time transportation staff being flexed from their normal duties doing sidewalk repair, pavement repair, street sweeping, storm water maintenance, mulching, and other landscaping work. The program is offered between November and March each year with two collection passes with the first pass most recently scheduled to end in February. There are no quantity limits on our program. We have 23 pieces of specialized equipment and we average this past year 17 working crews per day to deliver the program. The loose leaf collection schedule loosely uh divides the city into 12 collection zones. I know it's hard to see maybe on your screen. Um, but those 12 zones have 10 subzones each and we start in one zone every year. We work clockwise around the city to deliver the program and we try to rotate the starting zone annually so that we're not starting in the same place every year. So, how much do we collect each year? The average of the last two seasons is 64,34 383, excuse me, cubic yards of leaves. My math tells me that this would cover the field at Carter Finley Stadium to the top of the goalposts or approximately 30 feet deep. Just to give you a little bit of scale, schedule influences and drivers. Again, the growth of the program continues to lengthen the overall loose leaf collection schedule. We create the schedule in September each year to allow for proper communication to the public on when they will receive their pickups. And typically, when we are creating that schedule, it is unknown if leaves will fall early in the year or late. During the leaf collection season, weather plays a significant role and collection can slow down or stop with rain and extreme cold and collection can stop for a minimum of three days for snow and ice events. We saw this past winter three such snow and ice events and staff was away from leaf collection for a total of 12 working days. So what is the current yard waste collection? Um this program is delivered by the solid waste services department. They utilize 30 total staff members and this is a yearround residential service that is provided every other week. one city provided cart and and one or excuse me, one city provided cart and 15 biodegradable bags are the limit every two weeks and they use 10 pieces of equipment with an average of 10 working crews per day. So how much can be collected every two weeks per resident? The leaf pile on the right is the total volume of the 95gallon cart and the 15 biodegradable bags you see on the left. That's an estimated two to three cubic yards every two weeks per resident. And we actually did empty those bags that you see on the left into the pile on the right just to make sure that uh we weren't cheating it or anything like that. So what are some options that we can consider for changes to the program? Uh we can make no changes. We can look to enhance the existing program. We can look at privatization or we can look to transition the loose leaf collection program to an enhanced yard waste collection program. Starting with no changes to the existing program, demands on the program will continue to outpace resources. The schedule will continue to lengthen over time. We assume resident dissatisfaction will continue. And we will also have 48 full-time transportation employees continue to be flexed from their normal duties to deliver the loose leaf collection program. That means less sidewalk repair. That means less pavement repair, less street sweeping, less storm water maintenance, less mulching, and less landscaping. So what about an enhanced loose leaf collection program? Three options to enhance the existing program were provided as a budget note for fiscal year 2023. No action was taken by the prior council on that uh budget note. Uh we have attached a copy for your reference should you w to take a closer look at any of those options. Next option for consider consider consideration is privatization. we would move from a city provided service to a contractor provided service. There is a new example of this model that was implemented in Henriko County, Virginia in 2024 and they use a call-in ondemand model for that service. They were able to increase their customer satisfaction from nine to 9.9 out of 10 during their first full leaf collection season. However, it comes at a price. It would require a significant new investment in the leaf collection program to deliver a service like this. It would also require a significant communication plan to change the way that we deliver the service. And finally, we could look to transition the loose leaf collection program to an enhanced yard waste collection program. Excuse me. We would provide weekly yard waste collection delivered by the solid waste services department. There's a new example of this model that was implemented in Greensboro, North Carolina in 2024. And they transitioned their loose leaf collection program to a yard waste collection program that provides yard waste collection weekly with the collection of one city provided cart and 15 biodegradable bags. What are some things to consider when looking at a transition to an enhanced yards program? Strong communication to change the service delivery would be very important. We would be looking at at least a 12 month advanced notice to residents on the changes to the program. There would be an investment in new resources. It would take 15 additional staff members and five additional trucks to ramp up the service to be able to provide it weekly to all of our residents. And again, it would take a strong enforcement and education plan during the transition. So, what are some other things to consider when looking at a privatization model or a transition to an enhanced yard waste model? 48 full-time transportation staff members would be able to stay in their assigned units year round. This would increase the level of service and transportation maintenance activities. When looking specifically at our street maintenance division, we anticipate an increase of 25 to 30% in sidewalk repair and replacement annually. We would also see a 15 to 20% increase in our street pavement patching. In our right-of-way maintenance division, we would be able to offer an additional sweep sweeping cycle on all city streets. We would see an increase of 10 to 15% of storm water pipe maintenance and we would be able to increase the frequency of our mulching and landscaping in our rightway areas. This table represents a summary of the options that we talked about today. Starting at the top with no change to the existing program, followed by enhancements to the existing program, followed by looking at a privatization model, and finally a transition of the loose leaf collection program to an enhanced yard waste model. At this time, I thank you for your attention today and would like to open up the floor for any questions or discussion. Thank you. Um I'll start down at the end. I just have a question. So if we went to the fourth option, which would be the weekly pickup, that would just be seasonal, right? For the time period that people would be using. I I think we could consider both, but um what what we what we presented today would be a year- round option. Okay. Uh which is what Greensboro did. Uh but certainly if the council so desires, we could also look at an option where it would become seasonal. Uh the only questions there would be communication to the public on when that change happens and when it stops. But it almost be like you do now, like you communicate when you start with the trucks going down the street picking them up. So something similar. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for this. I have a handful of questions. Um, I know probably some of the cost of this program is just sort of absorbed into the broader transportation budget like the cost of employees, but if you had to put a price tag on it, what's the relative cost to run this program? So, if you include staff and equipment, we're about $3.1 million most recently with about 2 million of that three being staff and equipment costs that are fixed. Okay, got it. And then um so would the if we were to look at some sort of alternate option the would new monies be freed up or would they really be like rolled into the new sidewalk or the additional sidewalks and additional road patches that there would be to your point some some needs for additional materials in those areas but we don't think that it would fully eat the cost of uh that additional million that's left over after we pay for equipment and materials. It'd probably be in the $200 to $300,000 range with with potentially $700,000 left over. Got it. Answers your question. Excellent. That's helpful. And then um the memo, the budget note from 2022 that was provided in the backup has for instance has uh says the enhanced schedule would cost uh se $7.5 million on year one and 2.1 million ongoing. That was in 2022. We can assume there would be some escalation. Definitely. Yeah. Would based based on what we've seen from some of the other escalations is like double the price you think is probably I wouldn't say double. I'd probably say in the range of 10 to 20% uh without actually putting pen to paper on uh current equipment costs. Okay. So, okay. So, the number just for the public the numbers shown in this budget memo are high would be higher. This is an old memo. Um, and then and just just to kind of put a fine point on it, residents are already paying for the yard waist service as part of their water bill, and we saw that yesterday in the budget memo. So, they can't and they can't opt out of that. Is that right? Uh, I may have to defer to a friend, Gregory. You cannot, he's telling me, opt out of yard. They cannot opt out of the yardway service. And they're paying for this in their in their taxes uh that serve through their general fund. So, I think there's an argument to be made that that's a those are duplicatus thing, duplicative things that the residents are paying for. Um, so I'm interest I'm interested in finding an an off-ramp. I'll be curious what my colleagues will say, but I'm interested in finding a a reasonable off-ramp from this program. It sounds like 40 years worth of councils have had dissatisfied residents on their hands and and perhaps it's time to just say like this this is not the right program for the city of Raleigh growing at the pace that we are. Um, I don't think it's an inefficiency issue. I don't think it's a skill set of the people doing the work. I just think this is a difficult uh program to execute. I think it's difficult for 500,000 people to be compliant with only putting their leaves out in the exact right spot at the exact right time. And um it's just going to get harder. And I also am mindful that with climate change, leaf drop times are going to continue to vary and be less predictable. Um, so I'm interested in an off-ramp something like uh se perhaps seasonal weekly bin collection when this has been floated at my resident meetings. I hear a lot of folks just um they uh one thing they offer is like maybe we could for a time buy help offset the cost of those biodegradable bags because you buy them at the hardware store and they can be kind of pricey considering they're just paper bags. U so maybe there's a way as we build this offramp we spend a year offsetting the cost and people can get them from us for free for a time um or something like that or maybe we can partner with organizations like Trees for the Triangle to help people mulch down their leaves and leave them in place. Uh so I think there's a lot of creative opportunities to soften the shift for our residents but I am interested in making one. Yeah. Councelor Lambert Milton. I appreciate all the work that went into this. You know, I think for me, all four of the options presented don't really seem sustainable or feasible. Obviously, making no change is not a sustainable option. I will say for my entire time on the council, uh we get the most consistently upset emails about this program. Um I don't recall anyone ever emailing us and um being pleased with the program. It's usually folks that are Yeah. Yeah. May maybe the folks who are in zone one or something, but um most of the time folks are just extremely dissatisfied. And then we also have to understand the resources that are being allocated away from some important transportation projects. Um and so option one to me does not seem sustainable. The other three options I don't see being viable either. They all require significant investments in continuing this program. Um, you know, I I think a lot about our bringing neighbors home program that we just funded, for example, and how much of a direct immediate impact on working to eliminate homelessness we were able to make with a relatively small amount of money. Um, and then the ongoing cost of this program and the cost that would be needed to continue to expand it and what good that could do for housing folks or investing in more safe transportation options. And so I don't think increasing the investment is is the solution either. I acknowledge that there are folks that do depend on this service. And so I would also be interested in finding a way that we could accomplish some of the um service goals in a different way, but I I don't think it's going to be one of these four in my opinion. Okay. Um Chancellor Brown and then Harrison. Um definitely thank you for the presentation. And I think we're at one of those these points where we're going to have to pick an answer that's not 100% perfect. Um, and for me that lands at option four. And my reasons for it landing at option 4, um, we have some of the equipment and things already in place. So it's a transitioning from our transportation part to our solid waste department. A lot of those guys know each other anyway already. Um, I think over time I see the ability to optimize and find efficiencies by it being in under all under solid waste doing the yard collection. Um, it could start off seasonal. It may go yearly because we never know when this fall may start and when it may and end um with the way climate is adjusting and changing. Um, again, no, none of these are perfect, but doing nothing is 100% wrong. We we've we've done nothing for too long. So, for me, I'm landing at um four because we already have we've made the investment in the in the Kelly Green cans um that residents have. So, we're not adding an additional can. We're already at three. So, just going this route. And maybe we don't say weekly. It may be by whatever. My my thing is I feel strong of moving over to yard waste and then letting our solid waste team determine what is the appropriate pickup cycle. Councelor Harrison. Yeah, I've got a few comments. Um I I generally agree with council member Branch. You know, I think no matter what we do, it's we're going to have growing pains of people who are going to have to adjust and and some folks are not going to love the changes, but making no change, you know, as is means the service will continue to decline in terms of quality. Um, I think the having two passroughs, you know, through your neighborhood at these odd times, you know, I I and I read, you know, the the website and I I put my leaves out when I think it's going to come, but then if there's a weather change, all of a sudden I'm leaving my leaves for a week and they're going into the drain and I, you know, I feel bad. So, I'm trying to figure out, you know, how do I do this, right? And I'm and I'm the one looking at the website and for anyone who isn't, they're not keeping up with this. And I think also this service only currently supports folks mostly in the single family homes. So I think also we have to think about who is this helping in the city. Um I think a couple questions I do have though on the privatization model. So the way that sounds, it almost sounds like another, you know, we're going to contract with someone, but would there be an option for, let's say, on demand, you know, during the holiday season, there are neighborhoods who very much do depend on those large pickups, and we do still have, I think, the nine automated uh trucks, and those are very effective, you know, pretty quickly compared to those, I think, the pull behind machines that you mentioned that do require three, you know, staff. members. The automated truck only requires one. So, there is a difference. And I did go out with our um team to see what it's like on the ground. Um you know, doing these loose leaf pickups. And when I was talking to the folks who do run the automated machines at least, I mean, they said they like that work, you know, and they feel like it's quick. They get it done. They like the, you know, just being on their own. Um and whereas the teams of three, you know, it's it's much more labor intensive. So, I could see us still having some ondemand option for neighborhoods that have that interest. Um, and I'm just curious when it says there's a significant financial investment. I'm not sure I understand who who's paying that or could you just tell me more what that means? Yeah. So, uh, the privatization model that I spoke about in Henriiko County, um, it it's a comes with a very significant expense. It's a it's a fully privatized system in that all of the collection uh requests go through their call center or their app. Uh so it's basically a turnkey. They 100% take the program over for Raleigh and we would pay for that service through whatever funds would be available should that be the desire of the council. So that would be a contracted service. So um is there also an option where we could have some ondemand a availability? Is that feasible? We discussed it internally briefly. To your point, there is some equipment. Um I think the logistics part of it would be does that become something like a bulky load? Do we set a limit on the number that we can collect on any given week? And if those appointments free up, then that's it. Uh otherwise, I could see this potentially snowball snowballing right back to where we are where everybody wants a bulky pickup every month. So we got to be very careful, I guess, about where that line is. uh if we do explore that a little bit further. Thank you, councelor Silver. Uh I agree with uh Council Member Lambert Melton is unsustainable, but I very much agree with uh Council Member Branch um that uh we have to do something and I the enhanced yard waste the fourth option is the one I'm leaning toward, but I like a suggestion about maybe not weekly but bi-weekly. This is an issue that it seems like it's been passed on for a generation and it bothers me that our transportation staff that are supposed to do other needed services have been handicapped. Uh that bothers me also to me it's not just about single family homes, it's catch basins. It's bike lanes. I don't want to personalize this. I'm a runner and I'll tell you there's one street in particular on Landmine where I live where it's impassible and I have to run into the street because it is so thick and so deep and in some cases wet that it becomes a tripping hazard. So, uh to me this is something we have to pay attention to. Clearly, I think we're all concerned about the cost but that decision has been deferred because of cost and I think we just have to figure out how to over time integrate it into our normal operations. Uh but to me this is something that is quite important. We're a city that values trees and this is one of the implications of having a heavy canopy trees is that those leaves are going to fall. So this is one of the implications of dealing with it. And also I want to make sure we get those sidewalks repaired. We get those streets patched. We get all those other services for storm water that we want that staff to handle. So, I'm open to exploring some modified version of option four because to me it's one of just a public safety matter as well. I'll weigh in with my thoughts. I appreciate all the work on this and I will say I've also learned that changing garbage collection will get you know we I have people that are mad at me still 20 years later um that I see in the coffee shop and uh you know so it's I I wouldn't I mean we think they're mad now I mean just wait because uh when you change or remove 300,000 people's cheese um there there's going to be massive blow back and um I think I mean that and that's not to say that I don't agree we need to make change but I would just uh be very careful what else we change in the city if we decide to move on this because it'll it'll take a lot of oxygen out of the room. I I um I like the idea of the enhanced yard waste. However, I wouldn't like keep all 48 transportation people in place and then hire all new people. I mean, it seems like you should be able to shift I I would want to invest so much in a completely new team um to get all the benefits in transportation, but and then the other is going back to councelor Harrison's questions. I I think having an option for people to pay like they're they may be paying for bulk pickup now because some folks are just not going to fundamentally how do they even deal with this? You own a house, you've got an acre, it takes you weeks to rake them to the curb now. There's no way. I mean, bagging them is going to be really challenging. You're you're not even going to know where to turn and there's going to be a panic of not enough private service providers. A lot of people I mean there's a lot of horrible service on leaf raking now. So I think having if we have equipment maybe there is an ondemand I know I would rather pay and again I'm a privileged person but a few hundred dollars to solve this problem and know that I'm just going to have to pay that as opposed to the amount of personal labor that it may take to take care of my yard. Um, so I like the idea of shifting to the yard but then providing a paid option. And can I just add as potentially an on-ramp to any of these changes? Is it possible to go down to one loose leaf collection like in this coming year and that way you know we start kind of making some transitions in the staff and it's not so uh all or nothing because I think that would just give people a little bit of time to think okay I'm not going to have this all you know always and maybe it's just a shortened period and I don't know if that's sustainable longer term as well but one pass through would be a lot less cost as well than too. Yeah, we've uh we've explored some of those options as well and assistant city manager Moore always says that our program is more like a pass and a half right now. If you look at the last two years worth of data, I want to say that 78% and 85% respectively is the amount of leaves collected in the first pass with the remainder in the second. Um, so if there was going to be one pass, we'd have to be very mindful of the timing and make sure that all leaves had hit the ground before we start. Um, which would probably be in the January time frame. And then we get into how long have they been sitting around. So, a lot of lot of things to think about if we were going to look to a model like that, but certainly something we can explore. Yeah, councelor Patton. Yeah, I just two two things to also add. I'll note that when we heard from about the budget community meetings and residents were asked what service would you be willing to give up to pay for the other services it leaves came up in every district. So I'll just like remind us all that that our residents have already said this. Um, and then the other thing I'll mention is that um, you said not like not if we somehow sun we work toward a sunsetting of this program, not all of the monies will be completely consumed with like the new additional sidewalk and stuff. Um, I believe if I read the memo from solid waste services regarding composting correctly that the enhancements that would be needed to make to the yard wastist center were would cost about $3 million. And so they I I don't I'm looking for Gregory to not if I'm like in the right ballpark, but I think that's what I read in the the memo is like upgrades to the facility. And then um so it seems to me like those are we're looking at similar numbers here. So perhaps we're, you know, perhaps this frees up some funds to make those investments that will ultimately further like a composting program. So I think there's opportunities for Gizmet. Can I ask uh Council Member Patton, I was very intrigued by your statement that you said residents would be willing to give up the leaf collection. What What do they plan to do with the leaves? I mean, I'm intrigued by that, but did they had an alternative of removing the leaves? Would they contract a service a landscaping company? It's just I'm Yeah, they can put them in their green bins and their 15 bags. And then I hear a lot from community about just leave a leave the leaves approach that and I I you know obviously it depends on the types of trees and how many you have in your individual yard. But a lot of my residents are happy to just mulch them down. And that's where I think perhaps like our nonprofit community can partner with us to have mobile mulchers and people can rent them for a day or borrow them for a day. I think there's an opportunity to get some of our environmental groups involved with the the shift because I would be interested in the uh like the Greensboro case study and other municipalities that may be you know proximate in terms of demographics like what happened with elderly residents who may not be able-bodied enough to bag. What happened to lowincome communities who where there may be even hurdles of buying 15 bags a week and you know getting it out there or they're working two jobs and again are not going to have the kind of free time to do this personal labor. Um but just by demographic were there implications unintended consequences more leaves washing into storm drains you know other cost. Um that would certainly be instructive as we debate this. Sure. And uh we we've had a preliminary discussion with the solid waste services director in Greensboro. Of course, they're just finishing up for the year, so they're probably still gathering the data that you're talking about and we can certainly reach back out to see what other feedback we can get, but uh overwhelmingly positive, uh the things he had to say about the way the transition went this year. Um I I can't remember very many negatives from our conversation, but um a relatively smooth transition considering And Madame Mayor, if I may, you may I'm thinking if we're already asking them to rake it to the road, it's almost the same labor of putting it in a bag. So they probably have a system already. I know some that will get young people in their community to help or to assist to do that for them. So, I think the key goes back to education and expectation, letting them know that, okay, instead of raking into the road, rake it into the green container. And I mean, everybody that has a yard or a tree knows all your leaves don't fall at the same time. So, I think as if they know bi-weekly or every week if something's being picked up, there's a system or something that can be worked out. But I think it comes back to us as a city ed really educating our community a lot more. Um even as we have to educate them about contamination with our current trash cuz I'm sure they pick up the green container now and there's leaves and limbs in the wrong container now. So we still regardless of what tool cuz even with the big machines they're having maintenance issues with those because of contamination and twigs and things within the leaves as they're picking them up. So we really have to focus on that education, education and education sooner the better. But at the same time again doing nothing to me that that's not an option at all. Okay. Any other comments? No feedback. So, what I heard was uh take a much closer look at the enhanced yard waste option, whether that's a weekly service, a bi-weekly service, new staff existing staff. What could a we'll call it a bulky load service look like? Could that be implemented with existing equipment? And what would the limitations be? Am I missing anything? some like temporary offsets of the uh bag like Yes, the bag edition. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Sounds like you got it. Certainly appreciate your time today and uh hope everybody has a great afternoon. Thank you. Okay, I think that is uh Marelle concludes our topics for today. Thank you all. Backy. Hey. Hey. [Music]