[Music] Do you feel [Music] Are you feel? [Music] [Music] Hey honey. [Music] Do you feel [Music] [Music] I'm feeling high. Hello. [Music] Do it. [Music] [Music] Okay. [Music] [Music] [Music] Thank you all for being here this evening. Um are joining us. Um, we may have some people that are looking or reviewing us or being able to be online, I believe, but we are ready to start for our meeting for the Charlotte City Council. Um, Tuesday, September the 2nd. I mean, the time has gone by so quickly. So um today we are going to begin with our committee discussions as well as a deeper dive into the um discussions around safety and health and welfare. Um we have invited a number of people to join us today in this discussion. I want to say thank you for all showing up. I let's see. I see Spencer. I see the chief. And I'm just going to continue and not do this again because then I won't be able to get everybody's name in place. But we're grateful for your participation in the work that we want to do for this community. So, um, we're going to start our first meeting. >> We're going to do introductions. Yes, we're going to start with our introductions. and be ready to move forward on the next item. Let's start with our city clerks. >> Ariel Smith, lead city clerk. >> Anthony Fox, interim city attorney. >> Good evening. Renee Johnson, and I'm honored to represent district 4. >> We'll give him a chance to chew. You >> ready? >> Good evening, James Mitchell, city council at large. Good evening. Dante Anderson, mayor prom, district 1. >> Viles, mayor. >> Marcus Jones, city manager. >> Malcolm Graham, District 2. >> Ed Driggs, District 7. Evan Peacock, District 6. >> Good evening, Lana Mayfield, council member at large. >> And good evening. I'm Victoria Wington, and I have the pleasure of serving you as a council member at large. >> All right. Thank you everyone for their participation. Um we usually start with our very first committee community committee. Um and that would be with Mr. Driggs and the work that we're doing around our um mobility plan. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Jones. Do you have anything? >> No, mayor. >> So one of the things that I think is important that we begin to level set what this is and what it isn't. this procedural vote that we have been in is that is intended to align timing actions by the members of the MTC commission including that I guess all of us know that those of the towns around us that participate as the part of the MTC. The legislation requires that a new authority to accept studies um opportunities by January 1st. So the body needs to be in place by then. Theou lays out a timeline for municipalities so that the body can be in place and the work can begin. Um, theou also ensures that transit rider voices are heard. One, it includes provisions that the city and the county will each appoint at least one transit rider to the authority board. Council may choose to appoint more. Theou sets the floor, not the ceiling. Two, it specifically provides that the public transportation advisory committee will continue to exist under the new authority. All of the other towns have approved this unanimously. The city and the county are the last two municipalities to vote on this. Um, Mr. Driggs sent an email on Saturday and I believe has a copy of it. Mr. Ed, do you have a copy of it today? >> Uh, I I have a print out of it. >> Okay. that has the layout of theou. So, Mr. Driggs will summarize um your if you'll summarize your email and address any questions, we would appreciate it. >> Thank you, mayor. Uh so, on behalf of the committee, I want to report on our discussion this morning and I will note first of all, I chair the transportation planning development committee. The vice chair is Miss Molina and the other members are Mr. Graham, Miss Johnson and Miss Watlington. I think it's fair to say that we had a robust conversation this morning for the second time because we did last month as well um about theou and unavoidably as we talked about theou other topics related to the mobility plan were sort of drawn in. So um what I tried to emphasize this morning and what we discussed was this action on theou and as the mayor pointed out is really pretty limited. Theou itself has got some verbatim text from the state law and then it has a provision in it that there will be a writer appointed by the city and the county and that the PTAC will continue to advise the authority as it currently advises the MTC. Um in the email I sent out what I was trying to do was just acknowledge there is controversy about this. uh we are hearing kind of mixed reactions to it and um that I think has created concerns in the minds of some people. Um what I'm trying to emphasize here though is we can take this action on theou and not limit ourselves. So by voting for theou now you're not limiting your ability to engage on behalf of constituents about concerns that they may have. uh we have time in order to finish the appointment process and beyond the appointment process uh the actual transfer of cats to the authority won't occur until October uh probably of next year when the revenue starts coming in from the sales tax and so there will be a lot of time to work further on the modalities for moving it across. I also emphasize in my memo the council has the ability according to state law at any time to remove one of its appointees and and put somebody else in and they can do so with or without cause. So we will maintain that control on a on an ongoing basis into the future. We are not uh relinquishing our ability to control this. Theou basically sets out a timeline for receiving applications and for making appointments. We have a lot of latitude under the state law and under theou to do this as we see fit. Uh and the towns do too. So everybody has agreed to this this framework. But what we discussed this morning was um what does it mean? and and Miss Watlington in particular uh focused on the provision in state law that says that there will be uh I will look at it. It's paragraph D famously. Members of the board of trustees shall have demonstrated experience or qualifications in the area of law, finance, engineering, public transportation, urban planning, logistics, government, architecture or economic development. And the question was, well, okay, what does that mean exactly? So, we get a hundred applications, people with all kinds of backgrounds, and uh are the clerk and the city attorney going to limit the pool of people that we can consider? Um so uh after the discussion about that the motion I made in particular in committee was can we approve theou and also resolve that uh at our next committee meeting we will discuss in greater detail with the city attorney what the interpretation of that stipulation by the state is. Um and in fact uh I think I detected that there are slightly different points of view among members of the committee about what it means. Um but the thing is we have time to work on that. Okay. There's a period for the application process. The appointments have to be made by December. So we are not uh foreclosing in any way our authority, our freedom to act. Uh uh our ability to make choices. We can't make choices that obviously disregard state law because it's binding on us. But I think the way the thing is written, we will have some latitude to consider on a case-toase basis what people's backgrounds are and whether they align with one of the areas of expertise that is called for. So uh in the end the committee voted 4 to one in favor of recommending to the council that we approve theou and we also resolved that we would have this follow-up conversation in order to clarify uh the screening process and the meaning of that particular provision in state law as to the backgrounds so as basically to be clear about who might be excluded and who might not. I I will emphasize that there the process that the attorney and the clerk are going to go through does not mean that we won't see all of the applications. So basically the applications will be available to us and but there will be a recommendation. The attorney is going to say or the clerk is going to say this application uh meets the requirements. Uh in in the case of the clerk most of that is actually just kind of a factual determination. Do you live in the county? Right? Do you meet those those essential requirements? And then in my view, it'll be up to the attorney more to interpret the state law as to what kind of qualifications or experience are intended in the way the law is written. But um it is important that we uh that we take this action soon, very soon I hope tonight uh because the this juggernaut is continuing. What's going to happen is the authority board has got to be stood up basically by December 12th. And if we don't get through our process broadly along the timeline that's laid out here, uh there will be a meeting of that board and we won't be there. Our people won't be there. So um we we need to kind of operate uh on two tracks, pardon the pun, but uh we need to keep this process thing moving forward and not stop the momentum. And at the same time uh alongside with that, we need to satisfy ourselves that our control over the appointments and our selection of the people on that board um will be as as we would want. And I don't see that by passing this we limit ourselves in terms of that. The state law itself is actually pretty liberal in terms of the the processes that we can use. It says that each community can use its own process uh for vetting and deciding on whom they want to appoint. Um, so we're not closing any doors, but I believe it is important if if we were if we had, for example, decided to go back to committee next month, um, that would have been after the first couple of dates spec laid out in this timeline have already passed. So, I'm hopeful that, uh, we we can get this done tonight. Again, we were four to one in committee in favor of it with the provision that there will be this follow-up discussion about what the meaning is of the state law. And uh I think that's my explanation. I would invite members of the committee who want to chime in to do so at this point. >> I see um thank you. I see Miss Watlington has raised her hand for a comment. >> Yeah, I just had two things. Uh thank you uh Chairman Driggs for your overview. I just wanted to lift up I'm not so much I just want to make sure that I'm clear about where I sit on this. Um I am not so much confused about what the meaning of this is. I think that what's written here gives leeway and there's a necessity for us as a council to align on what those that rubric needs to be um so that there's something for staff to determine qualifications against. So I think it's I think there's enough room here that's written that that's the work for us is beyond just understanding what it says is aligning on what that rubric is as we're talking about qualifications and what we believe are the um minimum qualifications to meet that board that goes within the law. I did have a question just in the in the overview that just happened here and it was mentioned earlier in the um committee meeting this idea that if we don't as a council city of Charlotte execute the agreement that it will still move forward. We just won't be a part of it. How many how many bodies have to execute this for it to be considered complete and move forward? That's just not super clear to me. >> So um >> Mr. This document is being voted on and acted on individually by the members of the MTC, right? >> There could be a quorum of the authority without us because we have our votes and that's less than half. >> But um it's not one thing that's signed by everybody. It's it's different agreements by the different towns. >> The six towns have already approved it. I think what the question is >> so I believe there are separate documents that are signed individually by the towns as opposed this is not an action by the MTC. >> Yeah, I think the question is what is the legal effect of theou should the city fail to assign it. It's my understanding that everybody uh all the appointing authorities in Meckllinmberg County have has signed the agreement but for the city. If the city were not to to uh execute it then it would have no binding or legal effect on the city. The others though having signed it indicate their author their approval and and and and intention to conform to the the language that's contained in this memorandum of understanding which quite frankly is really just a procedural document that lines up the appointments to the authority such that the authority could be stood up by the January 1 date that's required by the statute. Should the city not sign it, nothing will prevent them from moving forward under that direction to stand up the authority by the January date with everyone except the city to the extent they have a quorum as a result of that they can then take action as an authority even though the city may be absent. >> Gotcha. Thank you. Uh those are my two questions. Um I will defer to what I think Mr. will eventually discuss because I think we're uh generally aligned. >> Well, I have Miss Asher has joined us and she has asked to be recognized. >> Massage. Thank you, Madam Mayor. So, I agree with everything that's been said by the committee chair, Mr. Drakes. Um my question is not specifically about theou, it's about the appointment process. Certainly I understand thatou theou represents an important step for us to move forward and collaborate with our regional partners. Um so I want to I want to understand more about active transit rider and this question is for Mr. Fox. I know that this agreement commits uh from both the city and the county to appoint at least one active transit rider to the new board. Uh and I think that's important as we want to make sure that voices of people who rely on our transit system every day is being heard. Um so I've heard from various constituents that do they do the transit rider have to have a background professional background whether that's finance or engineering in addition to being a transit rider to serve on the board. If you could just uh explain that that would be great. >> Yes. Um the authority we get to operate the authority is is drawn from the general assembly and this PAVE act. The PAVE act is specific about the membership of the authority in its board of trustees. Section D provides that the members of the board of trustees of this to be formed authority must have demonstrated experience in a certain or qualifications in certain fields. It doesn't qualify that and so that is something that would be overriding on anybody that will serve on the board of a a board of trustees including the the transit rider. So the transit rider would need to demonstrate he how he or she satisfies those membership requirements. Now what are the membership requirements? The membership requirements are demonstrated experience and qualifications in things like um law, finance, uh engineering, public transportation. It doesn't define how broad or how narrow public transportation is, but that is the language that is set out in the statute. So I can envision where a transit rider would say, I have demonstrated experience in the area of public transportation and then that person will define how he or she gained that experience and what that experience is. It will be for this body to determine whether or not that experience meets what this body believes to be demonstrated experience and qualifications. >> I Yes, I think that's an important clarification because if someone is riding a transit for let's say 5 years that could be interpreted as lived experience and be qualified under public transportation category. Uh but I understand that would be something will be discussed at later point in time. Um but as a city attorney, how would you interpret that? >> Well, it's not >> I know that's a $25 million question. >> City attorney, what I do is file an action and get a court to interpret it. That's what a judge does. Uh but that's what happens when you have legislation and and ambiguities around legislation as to what it constitutes and means. I was first I will tell you I would look for a definition's definition of what public transportation includes and see if it fits within that definition. I would look for other sources that will give some direction and insight into what constitutes public transportation as indicators of what uh the uh the the lay person's interpretation of public transportation may or may not be. >> That's fair. Well, I look forward to getting that memo about the definition of public transportation based on other sources. I think that will help us ensure that all voices are heard. Um, especially our transit writers. That's all I have. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> And I'm going to ask of the council that we have had two speakers that would sign up to be at that want to address the commit the the commission our committees before. So, I'd like to go ahead and have those two speakers come forth. The first one is Mr. James Lee. And if you'll come to the podium, Mr. Lee, um we'll hear your remarks and then following um Mr. Lee is Aisha Doo and again coming to the podium. You'll have um two minutes to speak, Mr. Lee and the council if we'll make sure that we can hear what Mr. Lee is saying. Everybody, thank you so much for being here. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, in Charlotte's history, and I'm a history buff, there's been moments in Charlotte's history where where it has had to make a tough decision where it has had to look at both sides of an issue and had to make a a decision about the future about where the city is going to be. Um, I think that's person, this person that you put on there that has public transit um, experience would be somebody like I was the other day. I had two appointments that was two hours. one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Took me four and a half hours in my day to wait for a bus and to ride the bus. You need somebody who's who who has been on enough um buses that see how the city's growing and see all the apartments that's going up and thinking about what it's going to look like to drive a car or ride a bus or ride a bicycle like I do every day. Um I support this. I just hope that in this moment that we make the right decision for our future as a city because I got friends just on the opposite side of me. So, but I support this this effort and I think um for us to be a city that we want to be that we should be for everybody you definitely have to have somebody who has experience. If you saw my CV, my curriculum vet I' I've been an adviser in Charlotte for about five six years. So you need somebody who can also talk the talk and be able to talk 30,000 ft information and bring it down to the ground where folks can understand it. You know what I'm saying? So the folks that that are in the transit right now trying to find out what are they going to do for the rest of the night. I used to be there. You need to have somebody who who can be both of those spaces. Most of you know me. You know my you know my my professionalism where I've come from. You need to have somebody like like that on this with the on this authority to make sure that that we just make sure things are going good for everybody. >> So, all right. >> All right, Mr. Lee, you actually um the attorney just advised me that you have an extra minute, but and you're not required to use it. So, thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Our next speaker is Aisha Doo. Is Miss D here? see her. >> I have not seen her. So, all right. So, we will go ahead and go right back to our discussion. And I believe that I have Miss Mayfield um and Mr. Graham. We'll follow. We'll start with Miss Mayfield and then go to Mr. Graham. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Attorney Fox, I have a couple of questions. So you noted that the PAVE act is specific in section D that it must be an individual that's demonstrated experience and qualified fields. The transit writer must prove how they meet the requirement. You also stated that council are the ones who's going to decide what those requirements are. If we were to move forward, just for me to understand with theou tonight, let's say we don't let's say if we weren't going to move forward with theou tonight. Realistically, how are the towns going to afford the transportation system without the city being one of since we're the biggest contributor to our public transportation? if this council there were enough votes for theou not to move forward because it was mentioned that they can just continue and move forward without us having a voice but how they going to afford it. >> The act is uh specific about giving to the county the ability to establish a referendum. The county has has called for the ability to have on the ballot the referendum. The county is proceeding with the notice as required by the PAVE Act for a public hearing. That public hearing is going to be held in September. Should all of that continue to move forward, the act may provide for the authority will provide for the authority to be stood up if it passes in a in a referendum by the voters. And once it passes, then the ability to operate is going to be governed by the membership criteria set out in the PAVE Act. And if a quorum, a majority of the members of of 27 members, uh if they have, you know, 14 members, then they can proceed after declaring a quorum. So, let me ask a different question. If we were not to move forward with thisou tonight, are you saying that Charlotte is still going to have the votes? We're still going to have appointments on this new commission because that's the only way it gets to 27 members. So, if we don't put our 12 members on there, it's not going to be 27. So you're saying whether we sign thisou or not if the voters were to support this is still going to be a 27 member board and the way that 27 is allocated now is from 12 coming from the city of Charlotte. >> Yes. This memorandum was designed to to get each of the appointing jurisdictions in line to make the appointments that they are given under the act to the authority. They have all done that. uh but for the city of Charlotte and so yes the authority will have its membership let the membership will remain 27 the city will have not appointed its 12 but the others will be appointed and can proceed >> so it will be a 27 member so I want to clarify if we do not move forward tonight with thisou You're saying that if the voters were to support this tax increase that is going to be a forever new tax where we are funding transportation and the growth of it. Will the city of Charlotte still have twins on that board whether we sign this or not? >> The current law provides for the authority to be composed of 27 members. It breaks out the composition and it includes 12 that are appointed by the city of Charlotte. Uh three of which are by the business community. If the city were not to the memor memorandum of understanding was an attempt by all the parties to just come together and develop a process to expedite the appointment to the authority. If the city failed to u adopt theou arguably it still has the right to make the appointments. If it failed to make those appointments I don't I can't predict what the legislature might do what a a court might do with regards to mandating action by the city. So if we don't sign thisou, you're saying there's a possibility that there could be court legal action to mandate we sign thisou. >> It wouldn't there would not be action to mandate you sign theou. There there may be action to mandate you comply with the state law which set up the authority subject to the approval of the voters. Next question. So if thisou is approved legally, what is the likelihood of us being able to expand in writing? How many primary bus riders? I personally have a challenge with the language saying a minimum of one bus rider at minimum. My opinion is just just that we need four because we need to be representing north, south, east, and west. And these are primary bus riders, not people who occasionally ride. So if it is approved, since it was said this is just to move us to the next section and we have the opportunity to discuss it, what is the legal likelihood for us to be able to have an extended conversation since we're being told this is a very short timeline to get this done? There's no okay you the fact that you there may be a desire to have more bus riders is not mutually exclusive of membership. >> You could have all 27 members who happen to be bus riders provided they meet the other remaining criteria. So if you have a lawyer that rides the bus that person could be a member of this. If you have an engineer, a finance person, a bank person, you just have to put them in the buckets that the that the that the statute requires. And the statute doesn't limit the number of lawyers, the number of engineers, the number of finance. It just requires that they exhibit those characteristics. So, what I'm trying to get to is the time and space that council has to actually have this discussion. Unless that lawyer, your primary source of transportation is the bus. For me, you're not a consideration. If you're just catching the bus when it's convenient or because you don't want to drive your car, you're not the person that's being impacted by this. And if the bus runs 5 minutes late, 2 minutes late, and you miss that next bus, and you have to wait 30, 45 minutes, those are the voices that are important to me if we're going to have this enormous board. When we look at other communities, they do not have a board this size. So, I'm really trying to understand, we're in September now. We now have a deadline when the community has not even voted on this. They're not voting on this till November. But we're saying we got to hurry up, figure out how to identify 27 people when the state has pretty much already said we want basically corporate people to be the ones that's on this, not the ones who are going to be impacted by this on a daily basis. And you need to be able to do that in a two or three week time period. I am trying to understand at what point does this council actually come have the ability to come together to even identify who are the people that we deem as the right type of person to ride this bus or to be on this commission. Under the memorandum of understanding, I think you have between September 17th, which is after the public hearing to December second, which is I think the deadline I can look at that for the appointments and uh to November >> to the 12th the 12th. So you have from the the application period begins on September 8th 7th I think and the >> uh and the >> it runs through the 12th so we have a couple of months >> the 12th >> if I may miss Mayfield can I just comment >> the 12th of what because I was talking to the attorney December I'm just trying to be responsive to your question uh uh this is the only place the me memorandum is the only place that makes any reference to writers being on the board. The state law doesn't it has a requirement that there be a small business, but it it says nothing about riders. The only place you're going to see a requirement that there be at least one writer is here. And there is nothing if we pass this that limits us from use putting more in there. All this does is say >> thank you for sharing that. So, as I'm going back to attorney Fox, as was noted by the chair, there's nothing identifying we have a minimum, but there's also no language that specifically clarifies that we have the ability to add more. Everything is in the language. Everything is in the contract. you know, how many contracts have council signed off on and then when it came time to negotiate the details, we run into a number of challenges within the attorney's office. So that interpretation is just that. So the language says minimum. What I'm trying to get to is if we don't have the language in theou that gives the wording of at least versus the minimum of one at least four bus riders or six bus riders whatever it is. I am concerned that us moving forward with thisou especially when some of our towns have voted against the actual November discussion. What could that potentially look like for us? >> Well, but the issue of the composition of your 12 appointees to the authority lies within this body. You guys you guys ultimately decide, >> which is one of the challenges, but okay. >> But but you guys ultimately decide who will be the 12 appointees to this authority on behalf of the city. you will take into account information that we will provide to you. We being staff will provide to you as a result of an application. I spent this afternoon looking at a draft of the application process that's going to try to get at some of the information that you as a council may deem important for your decision-making authority. So, you will ultimately decide is this person a rider? Is there is are they a rider of the bus? Are they a rider of of rail? Are they special transit riders? You'll get that information. You'll get information about how frequent do they ride the bus, the rail or and then you make your decision about whether or not these people or these applicants are worthy to sit on this authority based upon your other considerations. >> May I ask the manager. >> Thank you. If just for a moment, um the manager has some um responsibility and accountability for this and I was wondering if he could um give us an idea of how this works um in addition to what the attorney has done. >> Okay. So, thank you, mayor, members of council. Um let me figure out the best way to try to frame this. Okay. So the governor signed this legislation into law July 1st. >> One of the components of this legislation is that by January 1st, 2026 that a number of studies have to be completed and turned over to the authority. Those studies range from and they really I would say protect the city. It's about the city's assets. It's about our employees and how this transition happens. So, if you back up a little bit, what was the attempt was for this authority to be seated before January 1? Let's see if every appointment can be made, all 27. And so in order to get all 27 uh appointed there would have to be some some type of agreement right nothing that's let's say um saying you must do this on the state but let's call it a framework I think what's also important is that if the referendum fails there is no authority there's no appointments that that it doesn't exist right so it's not that you get an authority authority um with without the referendum. What's also important is the authority the the tax isn't going to be this um turned over to the authority until October of 2026. And that has a lot to do with the state system and its ability to in their own schedule and their own systems to be able to get this revenue to um Meckllinburgg County. So, so I say those things because there's a lot to be done. However, the concept was how can there be some level of alignment? It Charlotte's process will be Charlotte's process. It is not Meckllinburgg's process or Mint Hills process. Our process will be our process, but is there some kind of way we could at least get alignment so that there's an opportunity to make these appointments before January 1 of 2026? Thank you for that, Mr. Manager. Have these studies the requirements for these studies been sent to all of council. So before we have we're sitting up having this conversation about our but we know that the governor there's an expectation for studies to be done again in a short turnaround. Do we know what is being studied? >> Yeah. In the legislation are six studies including one study is whether or not this actually works. Those studies have not been have not begun but those studies must be done before January 1st of 2026. >> So turned over to the >> when are we so help with this timeline. So you're telling me there's six studies out there that are expected to be turned in by January 1 of 2026. We're having this conversation and the application opens up on September 8th and and is going to be open till December 12th. So, we're seeing who is responsible for one paying for these six studies and identifying who's going to be leading the work for these six studies that basically have a 3-week time period to get that information back to the general assembly. >> That's a great question. So that's why it's so important that I believe at the um regularly scheduled MTC meeting in September. Uh interim CEO Bren Kaggel is going to come to the MTC with a plan for the studies. Um and you can't wait until December to begin the studies. So the concept is can the studies begin earlier so that when the authority is set up these studies can make its way to the authority. I think what's also important the studies won't solve everything. It shows what are some areas of risk and what are some things that we should think through as we go through this transfer of this transition from a city department into an authority. Who is funding the study >> right now? Uh there are funds within uh cat's budget. >> So the city is funding this if it's through our cat's budget or does MTC have their own budget where the towns have contributed towards these six studies? There are options in which it could be through CAT's existing uh budget or the uh MTC and the towns and the county have about a half a million dollars that they uh could utilize uh for issues like this studies. >> So we've identified that we need to have these studies done but we have not identified specifically what budget line item is going to be coming from. >> True. I I will say, Council Member Mayfield what's >> also important is um that work has to get done. And what's before you tonight is really whether or not the city council would like to be a part of this particular process to get uh certain things done in terms of let's say the appointments within a time frame. But again, no uh passage of the um if if this isn't passed, then the authority doesn't stand up. >> Okay. You said that we're looking at 2026 before it potentially moves into this new authority. So, whatever funds are generated from this sales tax, are those funds coming to the city? What happens to those funds? Sure. So the way that this is established, you have uh essentially uh article 43 which is the halfsent sales tax which uh right now um it's governed by this combination of the MTC the policym board as well as it comes into the city after the passage of the um if the referendum passes the way this would work is 60% of the new sales tax will go to the authority and the existing half cent sales tax will go to the authority and the 40% that is left over will come to uh the city uh the six towns and a portion of that if my friend Mine is still in the room will be set aside for uh orphan roads within Charlotte's ETJ. Thank you, Mr. Manager. >> Our next speaker is Mr. Graham. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, you know, the um I I'll say what I said earlier today at the transportation committee meeting. And let me preface my statement by saying that I I believe I'm a yes. I I think we should do this for a wide variety of reasons. Um, but I'm a yes but, right? I'll get to the butt in a little bit. Um, you know, a after spending 10 years in Raleigh as a state senator, I know there is no perfect legislation. Uh, and the payback is not perfect. It's imperfect. Uh, one of the imperfection is the January 1st, 2026 start date to get it set up. election is in November 8th and in two months we're going to stand up a new organization um through the holiday seasons, Thanksgiving Christmas make appointments uh doing whatever stand up means uh in a relatively short period of time um placed by the legislation. Um I think sometimes the end is in the beginning and I wish we can take a a going slow approach if it's yes to make sure that we get it right from the very beginning. Um so I think that's an imperfection in terms of the start date. The second imperfection is the size of the board itself. I mean 27 is a large large board. Um in some cases you'll have the tail wagging the dog eight or 10 members leading the rest of the the the committee. Uh but it's big enough to include everybody. Uh and everybody means everyday riders to ensure that whether it's one or four or whether they fit into a specific category uh that the ridership whether it's bus or transit uh someone who rides a bike lane uh or walk a sidewalk have the opportunity to be heard and represented on the board itself and and I think at least from my commitment as one voter of appointing to the authority uh that that will be a top priority for me uh to make sure that everyday people who have an opportunity uh to be on this board uh within the guidelines of the of the legislation and as I told the attorney uh earlier today transportation every word matters right shall matters but matters right and so I think there's a way for us to ensure uh that everyday people um who have the experience like the speaker who was here earlier today uh gets great consideration in terms of uh being able to be able to be a part of the the the authority uh and you know obviously authority members again speaking for Malcolm um u I will ask a quick question will you support an anti-displacement policy if you're on this board I think it's really important and and and I know what we're here to do right that we get very limited opportunities to really talk about this thing publicly um so I want to take advantage of the opportunity that we have here today to express what I'm hearing throughout the community as someone who wants to see this thing pass. And so I think it's really important uh then we talk about the membership of the authority uh and uh where they come from and the commitments they're willing to make which is to uh have a regional approach uh to address our regional transportation issues and our infrastructure issues but also our social conscience in terms of some of the things that we have to do to protect small businesses to protect African-American communities uh etc etc etc. that is a part for me of the uh the leadership questions that I will be asking for those individuals who are uh considering applying for membership. And additionally, I think it's also unfortunate that, you know, we we're right in the middle of this election about rather yes or no that we're even having this conversation about uh appointing members and how that members going to be stood up right right in the middle of this yes or no campaign because the legislation requires us to start early. Uh but it certainly doesn't um play well uh in the streets of Charlotte where and I've gotten several phone calls already this morning since our transportation committee saying you know are you guys paying the cop before the horse on this particular issue. I think that's valid to talk about. Um, and when you explain that the legislation requires us to act earlier so we can be prepared uh in the case that this thing does say yes, uh, they kind of get it. Uh, but they don't, right? And so it's it's really problematic in terms of trying to uh, uh, educate inform the public in terms of what it is that we're trying to do. So that's yet another imperfection in terms of the start date. Uh I I wish we had the fiscal year uh June 20 July 1st 2026 which would have given us six months to work out all the kinks ask all the questions do do the due diligence necessary in a in a orderly way versus being has hazards which I think we're kind of doing but we have to do because the legislation requires that we act in this manner which I don't think is in the best interest of uh standing up an organization, a multi-billion dollar organization uh that talks about a transportation future. Again, again, no legislation is perfect. I I just kind of point out some of the the imperfection of it and and even the process uh with all due respect to all the small towns and and their signing on first. Um maybe it should have been the city kind of taking the lead because we have the most questions uh about some of the uh the memorandum of understanding. Uh and if we wanted to make changes that probably should have been given us the opportunity to do it first. We have the most to gain certainly the most to lose. Uh and any amendments to it could have been done then. Then the small towns could vote yes or no. Um it it's again it puts us in the corner that even if we wanted to change uh some of the language inou you've already got six towns that have already approved it uh based on this timeline it is problematic based on the process of the work. So those are just general comments uh that I will make. I think it's really important uh that we kind of and I've been doing a lot of listening for the last six weeks four weeks since the election started. I got a lot of time. >> Yeah. But but but I use that time to listen, right? As someone who wants to see this thing move forward to what people are saying and what people are asking, what people are concerned about. And I think we need we we need to listen if we want a favorable result in November. Two questions and I and I I'll stop. Um, one, notwithstanding their schedule, there will be no um, other than receiving applications, we won't be making any appointments or interviews until after the election. Is that true? >> Okay. Well, it's uh, your process and right now I think Oh, I'm sorry, mayor. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um the applications would be accepted between September the 17th and October the 13th. >> Okay. >> But we won't be making any appointments until after the election. That's the question I'm asking. >> The schedule under >> the schedule under theou provides for trustee appointments to be made um to the authority between November 8th and December 12th. >> Okay. and and and and again sometimes you ask questions you already know the answer to that's a short period of time right so there has to be some work done interim to be ready for that which is problematic when you're running a campaign yes or no right I I'm just pointing out some of the obvious things uh that people are are talking about right and I think we should be aware of that um for sure and then last question um um what if someone filed a laws sued after the election, Mr. Attorney, uh, for whatever reason, would that stop the formation of, uh, standing up to this board by January 1st? >> That's speculative. So, we don't know what the lawsuit would do and whether or not the lawsuit would have any basis. >> Um, because you do have a a statutory, I mean, a statute that's been adopted by the general assembly. So, I can't say no one would find a way to challenge it. people challenge everything or but whether or not they're successful would be another >> yeah another question. >> Thank you. So I'm going to support them to move it o over um in favor of it. Um um again I'm a yes vote. I think we should do this for the region uh for our long-term future. But the devil's in the details and right now we're dealing with a lot of details. I think this discussion is so appropriate. It's really appropriate. It may be uncomfortable for some but I think it's necessary because there are a lot of conversation in the community a lot of education going along and this is the education process and the demander has said heard me said this before whether it was the arena or the spec spectrum center we got to bring the community along with us right we we got to bring them along with us and we have to ask the questions that they're asking uh and give them honest feedback about where we are. And so uh again, I that's what I will continue to do. Um and I think that's what we're required to do. And so I think the conversation is great and um we'll see where it leads us. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> All right. Um Mayor Pro Tim. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um I'm really glad that we're having this conversation as well. Um I think it's really important for the public to um be scrubbed in on um the intricacies of what's going on. I too have been listening quite a bit and I've left lots of conversations where individuals have said, "Hey, I didn't know that about um the referendum. I learned something new. I wasn't aware." So, I think the more conversations we have um and the more discourse we have, the better off the public is uh as it relates to understanding what's really going on. This um theou is really a continuence of our regional alignment and collaboration with the county and the towns. And um it also introduces the language for the rider experience. The actual legislation says nothing about any requirements for uh a rider experience to be a part of this uh this board. And so I think that's important in language to have and I think we as a council should support the inclusion of that language so we can have someone um at least one person with writer experience. But I also believe that that's the floor and I don't believe we should set a ceiling on how many because at this point we can have as many um individuals with rider experience um as we would like to have as long as they fit the other criteria. And engineers and uh engineers ride the bus. I'm an engineer and I've ridden a bus before. or I've leaned on public transportation in my lifetime where I didn't have a a car um or it was just a better option for me. So, I don't want us to put a ceiling on the number of of uh appointees with rider experience. I think it's better if it's more open-ended, but still have that requirement through the language of theou. The the last point, well, two other points. One is um you know we will still if I if I heard the chairman Driggs properly and I'm I'm aware of this we will still have the public transportation advisory committee. it will not be going away and that committee has tremendous writership on that committee and that committee will be advising this board and so in addition to adding the language for wrership experience through theou we will also have direct experience on the PTAC that can advise the this board uh around the ins and outs and and to what Mr. Lee said and thank you Mr. Lee for coming today and speaking um about the real lived experience uh of actually uh relying on public transportation. And lastly, what I want to say is I I know we had a lot lot of conversation around, you know, well, this isn't the perfect situation. Um and it's not, but this is the situation that we're in. Um, we have our general assembly who has passed this legislation and give given us the opportunity to stand up for our own region and invest in our own region. And I think we need to put um all of our efforts in figuring out the best way for us to undergurt that. So, we have really great qualified um people on this advisory board with a with a with a myriad of experiences. We want to have different types of experiences that yes fit the criteria, but if you have different points of view on the board, that's going to lead us to um better policies, better answers, and better outcomes for the committee. So I think it's important that that we move forward and we have the the responsibility of appointing these folks and I think we need to take that very seriously and think we need to have a process um that we can speak about later and it's also important to know that this is a brand this would um we spoke about the um the the different uh surveys and things of that nature that need to be done studies rather and that's identified in the actual language, right, of the legislation. And so, a lot of these things need to be done at a at a at a at a very quick clip. But again, for us to ensure that we have the best experience for our residents, I think we need to make sure we are putting the great people on this board and that they can get to work early with the understanding that the revenue will not be transferred over until the end of 2026. So, it's a lot of work to be done. I'm personally going to support theou. I think it it underlines our regional alignment and collaboration and spirit um of this particular effort and um I hope that we can get to u a yes vote this evening. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Mr. Peacock. >> Mr. Peacock. >> No questions, Madam Mayor. I just would like to make a motion to support theou as was presented this morning in committee and is presented before us right now. >> All right. So, we have a motion on the floor for the motion to adopt theou and it's been second. Um, is there any further discussion? >> Miss Johnson and Miss Brown. Thank you, Madame Mayor. So, I was the no vote in committee earlier and we have heard a lot from the public and the question is when do we address those issues? I think we as a council might have learned our lesson in moving things forward and then saying we're going to work out the details later. Um, one of those decisions was listed as one of the worst economic decisions in 2024 because we didn't work out the details in advance. So, I think that we should be responsible. We've heard from community leaders. We've heard from community leaders and I think that we should address or we should respond. It's not just Yes, they have come out and they've talked to us and they've told us what we want. So, it's not enough to say we hear you, but we're not taking any action. I understand there's a time frame, but why don't we address some of the issues and work out those details and then take the vote? We've spent the day talking about it when we could have been talking about solutions today. So, I just I I just think that we've heard a lot from the public, you know, and and we we know what their issues are. Are we are we talking about addressing any of those issues before we move forward with theou? I know this is not the decision and I'm not even publicly a yay or nay against the tax, but I am against moving forward and not addressing the public's concerns. So, I I I'd like to know when that's going to be done. >> So, Miss Brown. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much, Madame Mayor. Um, I I definitely second council member Johnson. That goes without saying. Uh, she had some very valid points this morning and as well as now, but Mr. uh Graham, Council Member Graham asked my question about the lawsuit. So, has that been addressed? If someone an organization filed a lawsuit, will there be a hold on it? Has that been addressed? A move forward from January 1st? And then I'm just asking I have a list of questions if you want to do them one at a time. >> No, I think I think we should do them one at a time. >> Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. >> That's the first one. If we have someone challenged us legally in a proceeding, what's going to happen? Are we going to move forward? >> I can't predict what a lawsuit might look like. It's we do not have a current lawsuit challenging. >> Yeah, but these questions are coming in my email. >> The response is there's no current lawsuit challenging the PAVE Act or its adoption. >> Okay. All right. So, over the next 20 years, it's going to increase significantly. That's a concern there. It's not going to stay at the same. I just I'm wondering about that. um a fund increase over the next 20 year. And I just like to say people that are marginalized, they're always invited to the table. They don't get to really make any real decisions because they're economically challenged. So we bring them in the room, we invite them into these spaces, but are we really authentically taking them seriously? Are we really caring about how they really feel? And then the advisory committee, advisory committee has the ability to advise just like the citizens review board, but the decision doesn't mean that it's going to go in a way that it's being advised. Again, I said that I'm um not dis disagreeing with supporting it or agreeing with supported, but I'm overly wham over overwhelmingly challenged with everybody say they're listening, but are we really listening? Are we listening just going out of one ear, going in one ear and coming out the other? Are we really listening or are we intentional with how we respond and how we're going to move forward with the the very significant and very challenged questions that we have out in the community. There's a lot of folks in district 3 that's they have questions unanswered. So for theou I got a lot of emails saying yes, but all I got was just say yes. And for me um at at this moment with what I'm hearing and even with council member Mayfield, her questions were not and she's very knowledgeable knowledgeable and goes in detail and then her questions were not answered and she just said okay Mr. Manager and move forward. So, with what I've heard, which yeah, I came in tardy, but with what I've heard and what I heard this morning as I reviewed, I am not being I'm not going to support theou. >> Thank you, Miss Brown. I appreciate that. Um, we have Mr. Driggs and Miss um Watlington. Um I think unless there is someone that has not not spoken yet and would like to speak, we will go around to the next um continue this discussion. Is there anyone else that has not had a chance to speak that would like to start with Mr. Diggs and then come to Miss May, Miss Watlington. So, uh, the way some people are reacting to this, you would think that we have no idea what we're doing here and that we have not had any outreach to the public. I can go back five or six years to when we committed $50 million to study the the alignment for the Silver Line and and there was a lot of engagement, various meetings. There have been several meetings in my district uh my town halls and a lot of work has been done on the on the area of roads by Ed McKini to identify projects and criteria for prioritize. So it's not like we're completely unprepared. There was some work that wasn't done because you don't spend a huge amount of money doing that work if you don't know that you're going to have the revenue to pay for it. So to a certain extent there were some things that we couldn't do until we knew and and I think we're actually as well prepared as we could be right now. If you go up on the website there's a huge amount of information and that is supported by a long history of outreach to the public meetings in different places again some of our town halls. Um so uh uh and then at the same time there are questions that haven't been or couldn't be answered yet. But the thing is our freedom to answer those questions is not impaired by taking this action tonight. And what troubles me a little bit about this conversation is I think we are comingling the question of should we do we want the referendum to pass or how should we do this whether we should do this or how we should do it. And I think the idea of not doing it uh given the traffic situation in the city, given the implications for mobility, for housing, uh with our scope to make investments and address some of the challenges of our city, every zoning meeting, traffic, uh is going to be extremely limited. So if we had a general consensus that we need to to make a bold investment involving a large amount of money and that that the only way to do that is from this sales tax. Um let's not cloud that conversation with concerns about how we do it because how we do it is something that we have time to work on still. And I don't minimize the concerns that have been raised by people at all. I just wonder if anybody that's raising those concerns really thinks that we'd be better off doing nothing. If this doesn't pass now, I can tell you that the next opportunity we have to do something like this won't be for years. So, thank you everybody. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, I just want to maybe underscore this entire conversation and take it even back to something that some of my colleagues have said before. In some respects, we keep having the same conversation, right? We understand that there are certain things that are already baked into the PAVE Act. Um the nature of the tax at this point, either the public is going to support it or they're not, right? But there are a number of things that we keep mentioning. Business participation, orphan roads in the ETJ, anti-displacement, qualifications rubric and alignment for those who sit on the board, the details behind the asset transfer and what really the city is required to do when because as I look at the PAVE Act, even the transfer of those assets are their own individual separate agreements that will have to be negotiated at some time. So I want us to be very clear about where we actually can influence this process. I don't want us to paint this with a broad brush and say we've done a lot of work. We have done a lot of work but that does not absolve us to continue doing the work daily. A decision that was made to proceed before is not a decision that is made for every other checkpoint across the path to get to the end. And so we got to be very very careful on not kicking the can down the road on a lot of the how because sometimes that how is the what for people because there are members of the community that may choose that you know what I'll let this train pass no pun intended because I don't think that it's the greatest deal for our community and each person has to decide that for themsel but we owe the due diligence for the things that have already been brought to us microtransit improvements because at the end of the day whatever the many of us sitting around this table feel is the right thing to do or what's menial or what's not inconsequential at this point. We don't get to go into that ballot box with anybody else and each person is going to decide based on what they believe is important and whether or not we've put something before them that they can have confidence in. And so given that I do think we still have the opportunity to address many of these things and I would like to see us do that. And so I would offer that I'm happy to help craft some of this some of this um solution language between now and the time of the referendum because until I personally hear a clear plan around that we're talking about dates about appointments. Let's talk about dates about doing some workshopping and really putting some pen to paper on some of these issues so that when organizations like the Black Political Caucus, when organizations like Rebate, when organizations like the the um Carolina Labor uh Council come to us, we're able to speak directly to them about why each individual member should see the value proposition in this work. If we don't do that, I think we've fallen short of our responsibility. So, I say all that to say, Mr. manager that I would appreciate seeing some kind of timeline, whether it's 3x4s or whatever it is to have an opportunity to work on some of these and respond holistically. I know that we've seen bits and pieces come back based on um council member questions, but if there was a place that people could land and see specific responses to these things and not just the canned this is the a response, but this is how we've updated our approach based on what you shared. I I do expect that the small business participation, we're going to see something before the referendum. Um and so in that vein, would love to see these other items as well. Thank you. So, Miss Watlington, um I really appreciate those remarks because what my suggestion would be is that we do have a group like that that we actually start talking about a working group of council members that will help establish how what is the how and what is the why and what do we try to achieve and to do that in alliance with the idea that we want to do this in a way that people could turn on their TV and see what's going on Because we all know how busy everybody is, but there is an answer to a question for most of this and we have to do more work around how do we put that information out in the community as well as drive what we believe is why we are doing it. So, I would like to um take some time to think about a working group of council members to do that, to establish that and to make some of those appointments so that we can begin to actually determine what is going to be workable workable for this city because I think the number one thing and Mr. Drake said it, we will not get this chance anymore in the short term. And if we all see what at least in most of our cities that or most of our parts of our city, the traffic is horrible. Our buses are not what we want them to be. We have one train that comes from or two train tracks that we can use. But think about how much information we gave to those towns that and we told them that we would support them in their efforts to have rail. we decided we would make a number of other kinds of activities available and I like microtransit started before this has even taken place. So, how do we make some of those same decisions and know what's being done? And I think a small working group of council members um working along with the remaining parts of what we have to do would be the way to go. And so with that, I hope that um we would have the opportunity for that. But again, I think you know, have a discussion among yourselves about how you would take the next step. I heard what Miss Watlington said and I think that's a valid um really really good start for us. Miss Brown and Miss Johnson. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you for coming back to me madam. >> Thank you for coming back to me, Madame Mayor, especially since the topic of discussion is very important and we're we're going to be very intentional. I'm glad that you said that. I'm glad I do support um council member Dr. Watlington because what about the people that don't have a website? you know, they can't access the information. We So, that yeah, is a very, very good point. And I had this in my notes when Mr. Driggs says, "Great information on the website." That's fine. But my mom don't she's not really techsavvy and she's 70 years old and retired from Novant Health. I speak for people that work and have worked and retired and moved around. Yes, there is a great need for us to be able to develop something for our city to be able to get around smart growth people to be able to get to where they want to go. And our city is growing every day with 157 people coming into the city. But we still have to be intentional and I want to be that voice for the people. I'm just going to just be the voice for the people that don't know how to read, don't have the websites, maybe you won't knock on their door. I'm just gonna be that person because they need a voice and I'm going to be that voice. >> And that is I think one of the dilemmas of having to be in this space at this time because everybody has a different way of looking at the world these days. So thank you. All right. So I believe Miss Johnson. >> Thank you Madame Mayor. Um and I just want to just go back to the question that I asked before. People are not feeling heard and even the question when I'm lifting their voice that question wasn't answered. So the the you know the public wants to know how are we going to address their issues and I think that these small groups are a good idea but I think we should we should invite >> individuals from those groups representatives. >> I didn't say that we wouldn't I don't I would make that inclusive. >> Okay. I think that that's if you if we want to negotiate with the public and ensure that they feel heard, I think we should bring them to the table and try to work through some of these um these issues. We can't do this alone. We need them. We need their votes and people need to feel heard and their issues addressed. So um again I think we should we should give them something before we move forward with theou a time frame and you know the plan to bring them as a part of the team I think is a great idea. >> I think having the working group make a plan that everybody would like to um have engagement I think we should try to do as much as possible. >> All right Miss Molina. >> Thank you Madame Mayor. I just got a quick point of qu uh clarification. I remember when we voted to move this forward in committee. Was that done with the um I guess it was done with the understanding that we would have Mr. Driggs some type of discussion um afterwards. Is is that correct? Uh as as I reported to the council, the video the vote we took was that we recommend the committee recommends to the full council that we pass theou and we will have at our next committee meeting a discussion further to Miss Watlington's suggestion with the attorney about the interpretation of the state requirement that people have experience so that we're clearer about what kind of candidates we can consider. So there will be more work done about that. >> All right. >> Okay. So, I remember that being a part of the recommendation. So, that's why I'm asking for a point of, you know, clarification. >> Um, and and also to make sure that we're clear, I think, you know, not and and I I receive your point very well, which is why I'm raising what we talked about in committee today, right? The one on the one hand, we have, you know, the discussion around some of the concerns that are related directly to the 1-cent sales tax and what the community is bringing to our attention. And then on the other hand, what we have is thisou that is potentially how we would stand up their representation in alignment to the rest of the county. So from what I understand today, what we said is that in the event that you know we as a body decided to move forward, there would be a continuation of discussion around some of the concerns that were raised in committee. So, I want to make sure that I, you know, say that to you because I I don't know if that was said already. I don't want to be redundant in what I'm >> Well, we have a motion on the floor to approve the umou for today. Okay. >> Have a motion that's been made and second. So I'm I'm wondering though with that motion and that second is that with the understanding of what came out of committee today that we would continue an additional discussion. >> The committee voted that we would the committee >> would continue to work on it that we would hear back and at our next meeting we would talk about this. I said at the meeting at the time we were taking the vote we need a clean approval of theou so it doesn't look like it's predicated on something. We need an unqualified approval of theou and we have the committee's commitment based on that vote uh to pursue further some of these questions like in particular the interpretation of D and how that limits or doesn't limit our ability to appoint candidates >> and again I'm Mr. Chairman, I'm completely in alignment with that. I'm just trying to ask for the clarification around it because of some of the additional questions that I'm hearing come up. Right? So, in my mind, theou is its own discussion item, right? But then there are these, you know, related concerns that we discussed that we would handle, you know, subsequently after, >> right, >> potentially voting on theou. Am I correct in that? >> Right. The motion right now is to approve theou. But what we did decide today in committee was that there would be more work by the committee for the benefit of the council on some of the questions that came up in committee. But the but the thing I wanted to be clear about was we can't as a council take an action that looks like it could be reversed if some condition isn't met. Therefore, what I'm saying is we just separate those two things. We approve theou and we also commit to a process where there will be more action in the committee and more reports back to the full council uh with the attorney on uh this question because we we tore this apart every which way. What exactly is the applicability of the requirement in the law? It's a legal question but there's scope for us to interpret it. So, we just want to try to establish a clarity in this in these next few weeks about how we're going to apply that, how the how the attorney is going to apply it and how we will interpret that. But for tonight, what's on the table is a motion to approve the MOU. >> Right. So, we have a we will I'm sorry um Mr. Graham. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make a a comment and again it's about process, right? and how do we as a board become effective and efficient? We we do have a and I agree with council member Wallington's suggestion that we need to study those issues and that we form a task force or committee. We've already got a committee. It's called the transportation committee. And I know I've been asking for well over a year and a half for more information about this particular topic um so that we can again bring the public along with us. And so it's really not about the um the item on the table I'm going to vote yes, right? I'm going to vote yes at the ballot box. is about making sure that we um we operate efficiently, right? We we got a committee. It's the transportation committee. We should have been intimately involved um for months and we've been basically from my perspective on the outside looking in on a wide variety of discussion points and along the way. And I've made that clear, Mr. Dregs. heard me said that at committee meetings over and over and over again. And so I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. I think we need to use the structure that we have already have in place. >> I don't >> other project because this this train pup is well down the track. I don't I don't disagree that the transportation committee transportation committee is the foundation for this but I also understand that there are other things that people want to be and see concern about which can come to the transportation committee as long as we can get this organized in a way. So um right now um we spent a number of minutes or t I mean half an hour and you know if anybody doesn't notice um today is Dimple Azimir's birthday tomorrow >> so we want to make sure that we give her that accolade >> birthday >> and it's tomorrow >> and Ed's birthday is tomorrow he's >> Yay Ed okay number >> I at least you're getting somewhere where along this way, I guess. So, um, so with that, um, I think that what we can, um, determine is that we have a motion to adopt theou and a second on the floor. We have a commitment to review and have a, um, purpose around how we will look at what's going to be, I think, a challenging thing for this community and our city. And so, with that, I'm going to call for the question. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hands. Three, four, five, six, seven, eight. I think I have counted eight, nine, and then make sure I got it. So, one, two, three four five six seven eight. >> That motion passes. Thank you very much. All oppose. Wait, let me a minute. I don't I don't get to breathe very often. So, okay, here we go. So is in is there anyone in opposition to it? All right, we have three in opposition. So the motion clo we have do we need a a short break to get cake? >> No, >> nobody wants cake. >> So with that, okay, so let's take why don't we take a two >> Okay, we have two close sessions tonight. So remember So, yes, we have one or I thought it was two. One >> I'm sorry, Anthony. I can't hear you. >> Two items and one close session. Okay. >> So, the one the same under the same umbrella, two items under the same session. >> Yes, that's it. So, okay. So, with that, um please, um we'll take like a five minute break so that everybody can talk to everybody else. All right. Five minutes. And I really mean five minutes, guys. Okay. Hey, hey hey. [Music] Hello. Hello. [Music] I [Music] don't know. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Everybody ready? Okay. Thank you, L Miss Mayfield. All right. We will we will now get an update. We will now get an update from Cat's leadership on transit safety and security >> before Brent and his team joins us. I want to make a brief statement. >> This body Excuse me. Madame Mayor, everyone, we are back in our meeting and the mayor is speaking. So, if you have outside questions, can y'all please step outside? Thank you. But I'll >> this body >> I'll figure it out >> has spent a lot of time talking about public safety as we should. It's one of the most important roles that this organization has for our community and we've made great strides toward forward over the past years. Earlier this year we spent many meetings talking about public safety from law enforcement to how we create safer neighborhoods. Those were really important conversations to have. Five years ago, council made a significant made significant pro progress on public safety when the city council unanimously approved Safe Charlotte. That work was the result of a committee referral to all of the council committees, each addressing different aspects of public safety and law enforcement. We have important questions to answer for our community. There is this important work that we can do but we also have to have important works that have our partners partners join with us. How do we support our partners? Meckllinburgg County I believe we have the county manager here if he has where are you? He left. Okay. Thank you. I guess it's been a moment for him. I know. >> I don't know. Maybe do you think the county commission has meetings this long? Okay, let's just not even try to think about which ones are longer. Um so, but we do have um the district attorney who has said Spencer, thank you very much for taking the time to do this that we have our own um nonprofit partner. So, if you're a nonprofit partner with our city and how we ought to be addressing safety with it, please stand up so that we can see who you are and let's give them a hand for the work that they're doing. Now, you know, um, since I became mayor, my passion has been housing, but housing alone won't fix what we've doing what we're doing now. The work that we have done and the conversations that we've had over this past several months have led us to this point. My recommendation is that we continue with our council topics. I want you to know that we continue to talk about that as we have our meetings and how we can address each other so that we can have opportunities so that everyone can have a possibility to explain what they believe is best to for the city to move forward. I also think that what's important is that we need to have more work done within our committees. My recommendation is that we have a referral to each of our committees for the next several weeks as we define how we can address quality of life specifically around housing, jobs, mobility, and more importantly public safety. I will be making these referrals and we'll be working with each committee chair on those referrals. But tonight, I want to really again say thank you to the people that work with us and make it part that are partnering with us and I want to hear you and join into the conversation. If you believe that you think that you can help us do something, we want to know about it. We welcome that participation. So, with that, I'm now going to turn it over to Brent Kaggel. Um, interim cat's leadership. >> Good evening, madame mayor. Good evening, uh, members of city council. Again, I am Brent Kaggel, interim CEO of Catz. Wanted to start off this evening, uh, expressing my condolences to the friends and family of Arena Zerutska. Arena was murdered, as you all know, on Friday, August 22nd at approximately 10 p.m. in a senseless act of random violence. Um, as we've moved forward, I wanted to give you some insight into where we've been and where we're going as an organization, as cats, specifically around our safety and security protocols and uh what we have planned for the future. So with that, I want to start a little bit with thinking about the last two and a half to three years, 2023, 2024, and today through 2025. First thing, and you'll hear from Eric in a in a moment, uh Katz uh last year acknowledged and understood the importance of elevating safety and security to the executive level. Um, within the cat's organization, we added a chief safety and security officer. Mr. Osnes is our first chief safety and security officer and he has been on the job here in Charlotte for about four months. Um, however, he has been on the job in transit security um for most of his life as well as with federal agencies including the FBI. He comes to us from um New York MTA and he brings with him a lot of experience around transit security and he brings with him uh new and fresh ideas for cats as we think about what we can do today and also we think about the future and uh the possibility of our expanding transit system. Secondly, in 2023, coming into 2023, uh we had a single security contractor. That contractor was really approaching security from a what I'm going to call a corporate or uh corporate or uh um contract security standpoint, posting guards at a position. Um, as we moved forward in 2023 and we were seeking new alternatives, ultimately in December of 2024, um, we consolidated our security contract with professional security services or PSS. I want to introduce Lee Ratliff. Uh, Lee is the owner of PSS. He is local, former CMPD. And I'll say, we'll talk more about this, but I think it's well worth noting. Um, with the former contractor, we understood that we needed to move away from a corporate security model and really into a transit policing model. And that's what Lee and all of his dedicated employees have helped us do. At the same time, we increased spending on transit security from around $5.8 8 million with the previous contractor to three times that where we are today at just under $18 million um to support a transit policing approach. We understood that it would take more resources and Katz was um certainly excited about doing that. Thirdly, we have been uh evaluating our camera and access control systems. We have been replacing old cameras with new higher quality cameras that give us better visibility. We've also been identifying blind spots throughout the system and adding cameras across the system to give us a better visibility of the entire system. You're all aware of transit center upgrades, but I will say while we think about the transit center, the Charlotte transit center, the CTC uptown, we have four transit centers. We have the CTC, we have Rosa Parks, we have Eastland, and we have South Park. Um, we have recently conducted a comprehensive uh condition assessment on all of those facilities, and all of those facilities are slated slated for a variety of upgrades. As we think about those upgrades, those will be things that are important to passengers like passenger amenities, but they will also be incorporating security um into the design of the upgrades um as we're doing those. We've also completed deescalation training for CAT staff. You're all aware that we have uh gone through a series of FTA audits over the last two years. the special maintenance review, the financial management oversight review. You also may or may not be aware we just completed our um regularly scheduled trienal audit uh with the FTA. That audit um had three findings. None of them were related to safety and security and none of them were repeat findings. Um as well um Eric and his team have also engaged the TSA to conduct threat vulnerability assessment across our system and specific to our facilities. So again those are all things that have been completed and help inform us as we move forward. Cats by the numbers I think this is really important to uh hit on as we go. When we think about security across cats, we also think about the magnitude of the system. Um 675 square miles is the service area that we have. just under 15 million riders in 2024. 3,000 bus stops, 28 parking rides, as I mentioned before, four transit centers, 43 rail stations, 235 fixed route buses serving 67 bus routes daily, 48 train cars across our two uh rail services, blue line and gold line, 85 paratransit buses, and then an additional four operating facilities specific to cats. It is our two rail facilities plus two bus facilities. All of those are within our service area and are within the purview of PSS and CAT safety and security. So we are gathering data. Uh Councilman Peacock had asked us for actual um incident data. We are gathering that working with CMPD. But we also wanted to present to you something that we think is um interesting as we do customer and community surveys. We conducted our last survey in 2024 and one thing that we see is when it comes to safety, I think we all agree the perception becomes the reality. And so when we talk to our riders and we ask them about their perception of safety both in rail and in bus and we talk to them and and we're specific about that rail and bus, not all transit, we get very different responses on perception of safety than when we talk to the general public or the community in general. Um and and I think that probably makes the point that as we are starting to talk about transit, we do a lot of folks have perceptions about safety and security but but sometimes many of those folks are not our users. When we talk to our users, what is their perception? And that is very different between the two groups. >> So with that, I just want to stop here. I will ask Mr. Osnes to come up. But I will say again um this is our organizational structure for cats security. Mr. Oznes I've talked about his experience and skills. He will talk more about the details of cat safety and security and our position moving forward. Thank you Brent for those kind words. I only wish that I was being introduced under different circumstances. Uh the organizational structure that you see in front of you is uh represents the highest level of commitment to safety and security by the cat's executive team. Uh my position answers directly to the acting chief uh executive officer. My staff is a combination of safety and security professionals to include sworn law enforcement officers who are responsible for assessing and evaluating both systemwide hazards and vulnerabilities. The team uh includes two dedicated CMPD officers that assist us with CMPD assets and operational continuity. So protecting cat's assets is predicated on principles of recognition, evaluation, and control of vulnerabilities that have impacts on the community we serve. Uh this occurs through collaborating with our regional partners such as CMPD, the Transportation Security Administration, and our contracted security firm PSS. It is working and training with the first responder community where we jointly come together to plan, resolve threats and vulnerabilities identified and respond to events as as as they occur. This relationship fosters a unity and I have witnessed ample evidence of solid working relationships with our partners. We don't operate in a vacuum. The main elements of the cat's uh security infrastructure encompasses a combination of enforcement, internal electronic security and customer reporting systems. Cameras are a key component of our electronic security posture. It feeds dedicated command centers which allows us to view and hear real time 24/7. The entire rail alignments and the activities both within rail cars and bus vehicles. Dispatchers uh are also available at constantly surveile transit police dispatch and report out events while providing information that may assist CMPD from our CAT security and PSS teams. Customer systems such as what such as what is provided in the cat's app. Call buttons on the train. Blue light phones allow customer and the public to interact with security policing systems facilitating communication real time as events unfold. This uh this ser this this function and the community truly serves as a force multiplier bring attention to incidents and responders which initiates even faster quicker uh response times. Initiatives such as Cats Connect and the buser bus ambassador program allows cats to engage with the unhoused and persons in crisis so as to bring resources from community partners that they that may be available to assist their needs. So challenges during my five months serving the cat's organization I've come to recognize internal and external challenges. Internally, we are in the process of evaluating security staffing and ideal baselines of security personnel truly required uh to uh uh represent and address the magnitude and complexity of what we need to surveil and protect fair collection and fair evasion strategies. We're taking a fresh look at both as there is a recognition to fair collection and validating fairs on a train as a firstline security control. Therefore, fair fair valid validation will be decoupled from security as we're proposing now and become more of an operational administrative function backed up by security. This will allow security teams to do security while dedicated fair collection teams maintain a consistent presence on our system, fostering awareness and developing a culture that you must pay to ride the system. This strategy is consistent with other transportation systems within the country. The process of evaluating infrastructure and security systems is an ever evolving process. Making sure that basic controls such as lighting, signage are in place. In addition to evaluating camera coverages, avoiding dead spots, and updating camera technologies to achieve optimum surveillance, external um e external challenges outside of cats or outside of cat's control. With respect to external challenges, we have a we cannot have an honest discussion about security without talking about mental health. Our transit system is a microcosm of the community we serve and society as a whole's experience a mental health crisis. During my tenure with New York City's bridges and tunnels or as you may know the MTA, I had the opportunity and privilege to work with behavioral spe specialists from Columbia University and New York City's health department on behalf of suicide prevention. One thing I learned from this this experience is that a combination of impulsivity and hopelessness is a dangerous com combination where suicide can be triggered at any time. This very same dynamic can occur not only with those who do harm to themselves but from those who intend to do harm to others. This is what happened on the night that Arena was assaulted and ultimately killed. Without behavioral cues or intelligence, warning security of a potentially unbalanced individual, the ability and probability of a successful intervention is unlikely. We cannot have our police serve as the de facto public health entity within our community. So to underscore a more positive event, this past Friday evening where community reporting alerted security to erratic behavior at the CTC, our PSS security team successfully deescalated, apprehended, that brought no harm to the security staff, the public, or the individual who was suffering an episode, brandishing knives and threatening the public. I only bring this to to attention as a juxiposition. When we have information, when we are observing behavior, we have the opportunity to react when that behavior is evident. So cats has a series of security or has a security strategy that encompasses seven elements. security support teams, training and procedures, fair policy, fair enforcement, system conditions, technology, social challenges and partnerships, communication and education. These all lead to the desired outcomes of enhanced security visibility, decrease response times, fair reducing reduction of fair evasion, support a life and welcoming environment for employees and riders and counter the perception that public transportation is inherently unsafe. In your appendix, there is a number of tactics that are associated with with supporting this strategy. Uh, I invite you to take a look at some of the details related to uh those uh tactical applications. Brent, I'll turn it back to you. >> Thank you, Eric. So, just to wrap up before we get into questions, um a few key takeaways uh from tonight from from our view. Um, number one, we have a new approach to security with PSS. Really, a transit policing model, not a corporate security model. Um, right now PSS is has an emphasis on achieving full staffing. Again, the total number of staff dedicated to that contract has more than doubled in the last two years. Um, and PSS is successfully hiring, but they are not at full staffing yet. So there is an emphasis on achieving that full staffing. Secondly, this is a continuous evaluation of total security staffing needs. We never stop that evaluation even once we're at full staffing because the transit system and its needs will continue to evolve and therefore so should our um approach to total staffing needs. Secondly, fair collection. When we think about fair collection, we believe there are three main elements. The first is our fair policy. Uh Katz has been conducting a fair study over the last eight months. We are prepared to bring forward initial recommendations um about our fair policy. Um we've heard folks ask about discounted fairs. What about those folks? Right. everyone should be paying but possibly there are ways to discount fairs based on needs. CATS currently discounts fairs for two reasons based on age young and older folks. It is the norm to have discounted fairs based on need veterans other groups rather than just age-based and we have been looking at that. So, so one of those starts is the fair policy. Secondly, fair technology. We've talked about it tonight. Ticket validation is important. What that means is if you have a ticket, you get that ticket validated. Um some systems use ticket validators on their train platforms. Before you board, you validate the ticket. Some systems have um ticket validation handheld with the possibly will be a combination of both. um ticket validation on the platform works very well for rail. It does not work uh at all for bus. So we need to have uh a separate approach. And then lastly, but certainly not least, just fair enforcement people um going through visibly present throughout the system routinely checking tickets and ensuring that the fairs are paid. All of these together we believe um will create a stronger uh presence and also help to educate the public that riding transit has a cost that we need to have a ticket. Um the third item is in is investing in infrastructure. Um again as we think about the possibility to continue expanding the transit system, but even with what we have today, a good example of expanding infrastructure are shelters. We've talked a lot about adding additional shelters. Part of those shelters is lighting. Um, all of those things factor in to both the perception and the reality of safety uh and security throughout the system. Um, as well as thinking about, as I mentioned before, as we think about improvements and upgrades to our facilities, how do we integrate into those designs um, smart decisions to make it easier for our security team to secure those facilities and ensure that our riders are safe while they're on our property. Um, the last thing I'll say is we we acknowledge and we know that external issues outside of control of cats will continue to print present challenges. I mean, said another way, we can't do it alone. We're We need partners. I'm really encouraged tonight to see so many of our partners here. CMPD is a strong partner. um the district attorney's office, Meckllinburgg County and social services, the nonprofit community, we're all in this together. This is not an issue that cats or cat security can uh solve alone and we appreciate all of that collaboration and the partnership that we have received and we look forward to that in the future. The last thing before I uh wrap this up and move over to questions is as Eric mentioned uh this is our presentation for tonight. You also have an appendix with those tactics involved in in your uh printed material. Also the mayor um asked us several questions. Uh you also have questions and answers to those questions and um council member Peacock, you have also asked about the uh statistics and again we we are working on those with CMPD to get you the um accurate information and we will release that shortly. >> All right. Thank you. This has been going to be hard to keep up with everyone. Miss Ameira, Mayor Proim, May, Miss Mayfield. Let's start with the top three. All right. >> I know. But Mr. [Laughter] >> Thank you very much, Mr. Peacock. Miss Azmeir. >> All right. Thank you, Madame Mayor. The mayor. Um, couple of questions. Uh, Mr. Kaggel, thank you for updating us on the security enhancements that has gone in. Um, you mentioned there have been increased investments that have been made in u hiring additional security officers. Were this enhancements when did these enhancements get implemented? >> Yes, ma'am. So when I began uh my interim position with cats in basically the beginning of 2023 um we immediately started evaluating our security resources and that led us to selecting a new vendor and increasing the spending. So that has been a continuous increase in spend since 2023 leading us to where we are today. So almost two years. Is that fair to say? >> Yes ma'am. >> Okay. Um so what is the gap currently? I know in key takeaways you mentioned that there is an emphas emphasis on achieving full staffing. So where we are currently and how many what's the what's the gap number? >> Yeah. So today um and and I'll get I'll give you rough numbers. I'm sure uh Lee and Eric can give you exact, but today the contract allows for approximately 28 total personnel and uh uh PSS is currently at 186 personnel with a hiring plan to continue um or to reach full staffing over the remainder of this this year into the I will say that um there's two challenges to staffing and to our new approach. Um one is it's just hard to hire. Um this is a difficult job to hire. But the second is as we think about and there's more information in the Q&A on this. As we think about the the skills needed to approach security from a transit policing standpoint, that requires a higher level of training. uh of the staff than simply saying, "Here's your post. Stand there and report out if you see something going on." So, I will say Lee uh and his team are working through that. They've developed uh those training programs and they are actively putting people through hiring and putting people through the training as we speak. >> Thank you. So you said about So there is 32 positions open and is that's been I'm assuming it's already been budgeted four in the fiscal year this fiscal year's budget and the plan is to fill that gap by end of this year. >> That is correct. >> Okay. >> If possible. >> Um I know you mentioned a very important point about perception versus the reality. And I know that survey that you have on slide number five that is from writers directly. Was this survey done before we lost uh Arena Zeruski or was this survey done after >> it was done during 2024? So before >> so this was before. I would like to see what would be the perception now uh especially after several incidents we have publicly heard about. um because I've heard from riders who take our public buses and our transit that the confidence in the system has gone down. Um [Applause] so I would be interested in seeing the updated number. Uh on slide number nine, um I know you mentioned about what what's within our control and what's outside of CAT's control. I think that's important because like you said, security and safety of our community, it takes all of us working together in collaboration with most importantly the district uh district attorney's office as well as our judicial system. Um and so with that, if you had all the key takeaways that you have right now, if they were implemented, would we have been able to save Arena Zeruski's life? >> So I will answer that based on the folks I have talked to who are law enforcement professionals or security professionals. Um, the individual, Mr. Brown, did not present any indications that this that he was suffering from a mental health break at the time. And so, again, from what I've been told, we do not believe so. And that and that is extremely concerning because after all of this investments that we are making um we still can't guarantee 100% safety. Was did Mr. Brown did he have a ticket? >> We do not believe so. So we have reviewed the video. Mr. Brown entered the system the transit system uh that day via bus. Uh he rode and it does not appear that he presented a pass or a ticket. He rode to the transit center where he then um transferred over to the blue line and rode out into south end to the south along the blue line and he was returning uh when this event occurred. So that means had we had this system in place for fair collection, he may not have been able to board the bus to begin with. So that means our controls would have worked and we would have been able to save Arena Zaruski's life. >> With with an open system, it will always be impossible to check every passenger every day on every vehicle. The im the importance of having more ticket validators is not be is not to achieve 100% validation of all tickets that that is not possible across the system. It is to create that visual presence uh routinely so that passengers understand that they will be checked much more often than today. So, so I have a followup on that because I'm a product of public transportation. So, as you enter the bus, there is a automated system, right, that scans your pass. Did that was it not there on the bus the first when before he transferred to the light rail? It was another of our safety um imple another change in protocols that we implemented about a year ago related to driver safety, right? Because where an operator gets assaulted most frequently is trying to enforce fairs. >> And so a driver, an operator is there to operate the bus, not to try to enforce fairs. So, it appears based on the video that Mr. Brown boarded the bus, did not stop and pay a fair, but then moved on beyond and and sat down and and rode. >> So, so I guess that further raises the question then how would we work on fair enforcement? by having dedicated fair enforcement officers or ticket checkers throughout the system who are routinely moving throughout the system. The light rail was built as an open system. The and and we can't change that. Um it is not physically possible to close the open system. The other thing I'll say on the light rail is there are benefits that were known um to building an open system. It is the norm throughout the country and the bus system by and large is an open system as well. And so it's not possible to check every rider every day, every trip. But it is possible to increase presence so that people understand that they are more likely to be checked and therefore they are going to be buying those tickets. So as part of the plan in terms of the fair enforcement that would be not on every bus am I understanding that correctly? >> It will be fair enforcement operations throughout the system not on it's it is not a single person stationed on every bus every hour of the day or every light rail vehicle every hour of the day. It is a um it is a visible presence throughout the system that people see routinely but it is not literally a one staff person or two staff people per vehicle every hour of every day. >> Um how many citations have been issued for not having a ticket? >> I don't have that number in front of me. I I assure you there are citations, but I will also say uh and we can get you that number. I will also say our goal is not to go out and write as many tickets as we can. Um our goal is to gain compliance. And so it is frequent that uh our fair inspectors will encounter someone who hasn't paid and they will give them the opportunity to buy that ticket rather than write them a citation. But I can get you the total number of citations. >> Yes. I would be interested in seeing how many citations have been issued for not having a ticket compared to previous years. Um and how many staff members do we have that does fair enforcement? >> Yeah. So again, I I will let um I would defer to Lee on exactly, you know, their operational plan on fair enforcement, but clearly we acknowledge two things. One, we need more staff dedicated to fair enforcement. And two, that fair enforcement should be decoupled from security, and security is there to support them while they're doing their job, which is checking tickets. So, I I'll need to uh we can get you the answer um specifically to how many are currently there, but we acknowledge that there needs to be more. >> Um and I know you talked about the external issues outside of CAT's control. Uh that's going to continue to present challenges. Um, as we are looking at collaborating with other entities, whether it's the judicial system, the district attorney's office, our nonprofit partners, the county, um, could you highlight a few items that we could work on to address some of these external issues? >> Yeah. So, I'll give you an example, and it's not that we will start coordinating, is we'll continue coordinating. So, we know um we have already started conversations with roof above um during co um uh cats made the decision to allow roof above their folks who are staying overnight at their center on Stville Avenue to utilize the bus uh to get to their day center uh which is over on Triion uh at no charge. Um, we see the need for folks to get to the services they need, but what we also see the need for is to work with roof above as an example to create a program that allows them to have a pass for when they are doing those things, not just board a bus with no fair. And so those kinds of things. also working with the county on cats connect uh when we encounter someone who uh needs social services, working with the county to collaborate and to give them the opportunity to get those services. We also acknowledge that not all solutions are through security or policing, right? There there not every problem has a security or policing solution. And so it's those partnerships with the county, with organizations like roof above, with center city partners, with CMPD that we really work to strengthen and will continue to strengthen as we move forward. >> Thank you. And just one last question, you touched on this when you talked about investing in infrastructure and I know that some transit system across the nation have physical infrastructure in place. it's more controlled environment um when it comes to fair enforcement especially on light rail. Um how if you could elaborate on what that infrastructure would look like for us um as we are talking about our mobility plan. So what you're referring to is the difference between an open system which we have and a closed system which cities like New York City have. >> For us there are reasons and so most light rail systems are open systems. Um I'm only aware of one transit agency that has even attempted to convert an open system to a closed system. It's St. Louis, Missouri. Um so the challenges we would so thinking about the open system and the benefits it brings one of the benefits to an open system is its convenience and how it's integrated into the communities it serves. Right? When you think about the subway system in New York um it is part of New York City but those trains are not integrated at street level into the community like they are across Charlotte. Um so you do lose that. But the other issue we have that we that we believe uh as we've looked at it is many of those platforms are designed in a way that they're really integrated with sidewalks or the rail trail. And so trying to put in infrastructure to close those platforms would be difficult if not impossible when it comes to meeting ADA requirements or other requirements necessary for proper size of the platform. Um this the last problem I will um note is even if you could and some of our platforms are big enough that you could do that. Even if you could do that, the system is built at grade along throughout the city. And so you can't you can't literally fence out the entire system because it crosses roads. Vehicles have to cross. And that could create a new safety concern for fair evasion where someone might try to walk up the tracks to gain access to the station which is also very very dangerous. Um we see what happens sometimes when people don't pay attention and cross the tracks without doing that. And so there there are variet variety of reasons. I think it's something that we can continue to look at. But I believe because of how we have built the system and and there are benefits to how we built it. Um it would be very difficult if not impossible to go back and change that decision today. >> Um I I understand uh in terms of retrofitting what's already in place could be a huge undertaking. Um and in terms of some of these key takeaways, I'm hoping that we can address some of the recent in incidents that have happened because we have seen at least from the data I have seen in the news that we have had more incidents in past year than we have had in the past. And that certainly um that certainly instill instills fear in people uh and we cannot let that fear drive people away from riding our transit system when we are investing so much more in our light rail and our public buses. Uh I appreciate the actions plan that you presented and I look forward to uh hearing more in terms of the data that I requested and uh Mr. Kaggel as well as Mr. Osens and Mr. Ratliffe. I appreciate your leadership and I uh I've always admired Mr. Kagel your candidness um and how detailed each one of your presentation has been uh and I look forward to working with you in addressing some of this safety issues that we have seen. Thank you, >> Mayor Proim. Thank you, Madame Mayor. And uh first, I just want to state my condolences to Miss Zerutska's family. It was a a terrible, senseless act and very sorry the young lady lost her life. Um but I I want to ask a couple of questions and I wonder if if Mr. Osnes can can join you, Mr. Kaggel. Very happy to have your experience with us, Mr. Osnes. be careful. Um especially, you know, having come from New York City and the MTA. I I spent some years there and and use utilized public transportation um while I was there very heavily. A couple questions if we could maybe go to slide four. first just you know we're talking about the opportunity to expand our public transportation system and you know uh Mr. Kaggel in 2024 we have nearly 15 million riders. Um that's pretty impressive and I think um clearly a good baseline for the fact that we need additional options for public transportation. Um but also the um the bus stops a very high number of bus stops with a very low number of benches and shelters. And so when we talk about um fair enforcement, you know, to pay a fee to um ride public transportation or to attend an event, there should be some dignity that comes with that fair. And so we have to see I mean that that's a very low percentage as it relates to bus stops uh that have shelter and benches. So we really have to have that investment to bring the dignity to the experience of our public writership. Um and so I'm looking forward hopefully to the investment in that space. But I also wanted to know Mr. as you know we also talked about technology and I'm wondering where where our technology sits right so we you've spoke about the number of of cameras and other um you know tech technological infrastructures that would help with security right um but where does our where does our technology system sit as it relates to some of our peer cities for transportation So if you're asking me to judge where our current technology sits and capabilities related to technology um in comparison to what I've seen out of the systems that I've come from, I would say it's pretty good. Uh reason why I'm saying what I'm saying is because we have a clear line of sight between uh uh all of our rail alignments from from the beginning of the line to the terminal stations. We are able to view uh movement of uh of of people. uh we are able to evaluate events that occur through uh our operating centers and we're we get pretty good coverage of what's out there right now. Uh through the short period of time that uh I've been with cats, we've been able to isolate uh uh aspects of an event that has occurred on our system. Um, case in point, uh, last Friday during, uh, the assault that we're talking about today, we were able to isolate the event, uh, shortly, almost immediate to, uh, the event. We were able to get pictures out to the CMPD, what ultimately led to the apprehension of of of the individual who who did this act. So, um I would say the integrated operation centers, the uh ability to review what's currently on the alignment as well as within our trains as well as within our buses. We can see, we can hear, we can piece an event together. I I would add that security is an or system security is an ever evolving process. we uh we need to explore uh other technologies like AI overlays that will help us uh evaluate further. But I if the question is my current perception in relation to what I've seen out of the systems that I've come from um I came from uh I would say we're we're in we're pretty good. >> Okay, great. And you got to my second question because I wanted to ask as it relates to our technology portfolio for security, do we have the right elements within our technology portfolio? So you mentioned AI, but I'm also thinking about um sensors, you know, near field um operations, etc. Do we have the proper suite of elements within our uh tech portfolio? Again, I would say it's a ever evolving process to review the systems that are out there that may integrate with our current system successfully. The current system gives us a a good capability to uh review events that are occurring to uh listen to and evaluate events that are occurring real time. uh there's always opportunity for improvement. Technology changes on a very uh on a on a very rapid basis and I would say our security team is in consistent uh communication with the leads within the um uh electronic security u community to make determination on what may work with our system currently. >> Okay. One thing I'll add on AI because because I do think AI is will continue to evolve as a very helpful tool for security. Um, we have had conversations with AI vendors who as as you contract with them, your video feed goes through their AI software and can help to identify almost immediately weapons. if someone's carrying a weapon or has a weapon. One of the limitations or or that we want to see develop um at least with the vendor we were talking to is their software was very very effective at identifying firearms. It was not effective at identifying fixed blade weapons and knives uh or other things. Um so we are excited about and I think many transit agencies are about that continuing evolution of technology um to be even more effective. >> That's great because I think this is an area where AI can be a benefit to us. We know that largely municipalities don't lean on AI for their operations, but with within this specific case, I think it can help us with our security and standing up preemptive protocols, right, to mitigate um events like this. My my last couple questions is if if you could go to slide nine. You had mentioned and I and I do like the structure of internal within cats and then external um things that you don't control. We are seeing um not only on the transportation system but just in general on the streets and in neighborhoods um the the impact of cognitive illness and mental health um as well as public health. And Mr. Asus, I wanted to ask you again from your experience in other major cities, is there an are there opportunities that we're missing um to address to partner with community um leaders to address this issue that is clearly outside of cat's control. I think that there are initiatives in place such as cats connect where we are interfacing with the unhoused along areas and pro and along areas adjacent to our properties. What we're missing is the behavioral evaluation piece. those that uh specialize in behavioralbased analysis, those that are able to evaluate um an individual's balance, uh that is missing from our our portfolio. And if um we can work together through the resources of the city and collaborate in that regard where we're truly uh having a balanced approach to a security posture taking into consideration the fact that we are dealing with a epidemic uh of the mind and that we have people who uh understand what those symptoms look like, how to evaluate those symptoms as we come together as a task force to engage with that population that we're trying to um evaluate and getting the services that they need. You know, I think this is one of our biggest opportunities in addition to addressing the unhoused, but um this this opportunity to have an integrator, right? The role of an integrator and I I don't believe it it's the city's role. I believe the city has a a part is a player in it. But between our um community members, our nonprofit organizations, the city, the county, we have a lots of nonprofit organizations and and yet we don't really have that horizontal integration to assess that we we have the right effort and um and and people working on the right things and and being able to allow us as a player to flex when we need to flex in certain areas. And so I think this is a great opportunity to work with our wonderful hospital systems that we have here as well as our universities um that have very smart graduate students who focus on behavioral health and social work and other areas leveraging um nurse navigators within the community. But right now, we we all have very good intentions, but sometimes we're kind of clanking against each other, you know, like a set of wind chimes. Um, and what we really need is for someone to steady that flow and and help us uh integrate horizontally. Um, and so any ideas that you have, it's something I've been thinking about because I think it's a it's a missing piece for us here in the city. Um, but if there's any ideas that you have coming from uh New York City and other major areas where you've seen partners come in and attempt to do some level of collaboration, I think it would be very very helpful. The the last uh point I'm just going to make is I think it's great that you are decoupling security from operations. Um that's a very smart move and um hopefully you will see the um the alignment of u the reduction of fair evasion and allowing the security office to officers to focus on what they need to focus on. And you know, we receive um reports from CMPD, you know, every month. And when we go to the neighborhood meetings, you know, there there incident reports that are that our neighborhood officers u share with communities. It it might be if if possible, I don't know if it's possible, but it might be if it's possible, it might be great to have those incidents broke broken down on what's happening on our public transportation systems as well. So, there's a column there on those reports if the if the officers track that information. So, it's one of the initiatives that we're putting in play as we speak is trying to normalize the data that's occurring within our within our properties on our properties in relation to the community that that particular structure or stop is associated with. Um, it's one thing that I I have to give credit to PSS is that they truly work as a police unit. that they uh work in relation to the districts that are represented within the city and that there's a there's a unified approach there. You could see the strategy is more from a policing standpoint than a typical uh security uh posture and Brent talked about this that that'll help us normalize our data as well because then we'll be comparing apples to apples. >> Thank you. Thank you. I think that'd be very helpful. You know, we want to make sure that um our residents have faith in our public transportation system um but also our visitors. So, when visitors come to the city, we want them to feel comfortable on the public transportation system as well. and I thank you for your leadership and I know that you all will bring some great things to us so we can continue to move the needle on this effort be because it's one of the critical um issues that we have going into the new year. So, thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> Thank you, >> Miss Mayfield. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Thank you all for rather quickly presenting to us on some decisions that you've made and things you've been working on. I'm going to stay towards the end and move back forward. If we can click forward to slide 11 since we're on nine. Thank you. So, we have this new approach to security transit policing model. Are these armed guards that we're talking about? >> Yes. And um so the security forces um that are in the contract are a mix of certified law enforcement officers, armed security guards, and unarmed security guards. It is a mix. So it is all three. So if there were to be an incident where one of these armed officers were to discharge their weapon and that resulted in the taking of a life, whose liability insurance is going to be hit with that? Cuz if someone in community is engaged with Charlotte Meckllinburg Police Department, it's the city that's genuinely sued. So what would that look like? >> Yeah. So, I think there's two ways and I'll let Lee answer from the company perspective and then we'll talk about the city perspective as well. >> So, the to answer your question, if one of our officers discharged the firearm and it was a deadly force situation, um our general liability insurance steps in and um but one of the things that we did do and I don't know if you guys are aware of this is uh we did contract with a police attorney. uh we use um some of our judicial officials to come in and do training classes with our officers. Just like Sunday, we had uh the honorable uh Rod Davis come in. And what he did was did uh we we asked them to come in and work with our officers. And then we don't just do police officers, we do police and security officers. And the reason why we do that is we want to make sure that that level of training that we give them uh that they fully understand the scope not only just what the police officers are doing but where they fit in that role. So if they have a better understanding of how we uh train our police officers, those officers are more likely to work in conjunction with those police officers and they can still achieve the same goal. But to answer your question, um if it's a deadly force situation with a security officer, um or a law enforcement officer, we are covered by a general liability policy and that policy steps in along with our police attorney. >> Thank you so very much. Um Mr. Kel, for the fair technology, including tal um the ticket validation. So if I've understood some of the response that you shared with our colleagues, unlike uh DC or New York, because of the way we built the system, we don't have turn styles, for lack of a better word, to where you have to show proof of a ticket before you can go through. So, and you may have mentioned this and I might have just missed it. How many current fair inspectors do we have? >> Again, that was asked. I do not have the answer, but we will get you the exact number. Um, uh, we'll follow up with that. >> That would be very helpful. Now, if we were to back up to slide number four and then I'll go to three. Thank you, team. So on this one that 3,021 bus stops I shared the concerns with my colleagues as far as the number of shelters and benches that we have out there. This 30,21 number is this from 2024 or these recent numbers cuz we've realigned some in neighborhood routes again within a relatively within this year. So when are these numbers what do these numbers fall? >> So so these numbers are 2024 numbers. They may have changed slightly um but they are generally um the numbers as as they would be today with with maybe some slight variation. I will say as part of the transit system plan there are a plan to add improvements to 2,000 additional stops. And as you think about the plan um that leaves about 500, right? There's about 500 covered at today and 2,00 we're now at about 2500. The other thing you have to remember about stops is as we implement microtransit you need less stops because you get picked up where you are. You don't go to a bus stop. It picks you up at home, right? You don't have to walk there. And so again, that number can change. With microtransit, we would expect the total number of stops to decline as there are 19 total zones and 2,000 stops to have amenities added to them. >> 2,000 plus stops. >> Thank you for that. It will be helpful, manager Jones, to have a accurate overlay, not a percentage overlay with the neighborhood routes that have been realigned or eliminated along with the lines that are identified for microransit. Okay. If we've eliminated a line off of Columbus Circle and we don't have micro transit going off Columbus Circle and Marlo or Dalton Village or any of some of our areas on the back streets of Batty's Ford Road, that's an impact that's happening. If we once had a bus route that neighbors were able to connect with, I want us to as close as possible be transparent with microtransit. Having microtransit in Burdale, that's a amenity. Having microtransit to if you live in Steel Creek and trying to get to the airport versus an hour and a half on the bus to go literally around the corner, that's a very different impact. So I would like for us to look at real numbers. If staff can go to slide three, please. So, as my colleague talked about AI, I want us to be very intentional as far as recognizing that we have had across the nation numerous lawsuits and cases, especially if we are ever going to consider or try to slide in the usage of AI for facial recognition since it has been proven repeatedly that those of us who have the variations of melanated skin, that facial recognition is not as accurate on a consistent basis. So, I did hear one company you're looking at is able to identify what may be a gun. I don't know if that's the physical metal gun or if it's a 3D printed because unfortunately those are making their way through TSA. So if we're considering using AI to help identify a individual, I would like for us to be very intentional and you can actually connect through our the city's partner, National League of Cities through the National Black Caucus and NBC Leo National Black Caucus, local elected officials. Over the last few years, our leadership has actually interviewed a number of AI providers that specifically work in the space of identifying the diversity of our community. And they have figured out how to create programs that can help identify skin tones from the three shades of the beautiful black women that you have sitting right here. as far as those who may be of Indian descent or the other nationalities. So if we're going to do that, I want us to utilize the relationship that we do have. That is more of a comment. Mr. Kagel, when you talked about the Transportation Security Administration, the threat vulnerabil vulnerability assessment. So we say right now there's no precautions on the bus. this individual that unfortunately had probably was going through a psychosis and or a crisis that took the life of an individual that potentially did not pay a fair. Why do we not have a way for that driver to basically whether it is a walkie-talkie or a button that directly connects? We have the CLT Plus app. we should have a way for our drivers to directly connect with the transit station. So, as soon as that situation, that individual came on and they saw that that potentially was going to be a problem, do we not have something in place where that driver could have notified someone that, hey, next stop coming up of which Manager Jones, I mentioned this last Monday, we need to have a better integrated system where the buses are aligned also with rail, but some kind of way to have notified someone that, hey, I just picked you up right just my stop dropped the pen. I'm on the corner of Third in College. By the time I get to that next stop, somebody should be notified that we might have a situation in place. We don't have something like that currently in place. >> We we absolutely do. Drivers can always contact via a variety of means, the bus operations control center as well as um directly to safety and security uh dispatch. So those those are in place have been in place a multiple of number of means on the bus are that none of those means were executed when this happened. >> Correct. >> So that's going to I believe that that goes back into that training >> piece. Is that what you're saying? >> So So I do think from an operator standpoint um so Do they always call and say, "I need security to come and take this person off the bus?" No, they don't. Does security look at that and have active conversations with the operators to determine where security needs to be positioned? Yes, they do. >> So, that's a different question. So manager, what I'm hoping that you hear from me is if we have anyone that gets on the bus and they have not paid a fair, we should be tracking that. There has to be a clear way where if that driver felt insecure or uncertain by the nature of body movement, agitation, whatever it was that allowed them to let this individual get on. I don't care if it's a button. I would prefer it not be something where they need to actually get on the phone because first of all, you don't need to be on your phone while you driving. But we need to have some kind of way cuz one, we need to be tracking if people are coming are getting on the bus and not paying a fair. But there has to be some type of logical way when we're talking about the utilization of artificial intelligence and just using modern technology that we should have been able to notify because that split second even if someone was there there it would have been very difficult for them to stop him. My colleague Dr. Wington and I gave each other a scenario on that. Yet when you first approach, we read body language pretty well. Our bus drivers read body language pretty well. What I'm hearing is director assist interim director KGO say that yes, we have mechanisms in place. One, none of those mechanisms were utilized. That's a problem. Two, it doesn't seem like there was a clear way to say this might be a problem. Whether it's a problem or not, we're not even tracking that an individual climbed on board and did not pay. >> We do track that those mechanisms are in place. And I think the point here is that individual was not acting erratic at all. They they boarded the bus and they they did not pay um or they do not did not appear to pay, but they were not acting erratic. If they had been if there had been some kind of incident absolutely. So in those if the person is acting erratic or there's a verbal altercation or something is a miss then the operator is instructed to pull the bus over immediately contact security and security is immediately dispatched. But but what I what I was trying to say is in this instance, this person did not exhibit Mr. Brown did not exhibit those behaviors in a way that would have indicated to the operator, >> I need to call for assistance immediately. They absolutely have mechanisms, multiple mechanisms, and they use them. >> This was not one of those instances, though. He appeared to be someone who was using transit. um and going about his business. Um he did not exhibit erratic or other signs that this was going on with him in his you know in his condition he was in the condition he was. >> Thank you for that. As we're as you shared earlier part we cannot have a officer and or a security guard on every bus on every train throughout 247. I still think that there is some value to looking into us creating a way outside of a bus driver pulling over because you potentially depending on what the situation is, you just created a hostage situation to say I'm going to pull the bus over and can bring it to a stop versus being able to identif give something >> and they do have that ability. If they believe that it would put themselves or the other passengers in jeopardy, they have a button. They have multiple buttons, but one button will activate a sign, the sign on the outside of the bus that says call 911. Um, it's an emergency. They also have a button. No one has to say anything. They do not even have to speak. But when they activate that button, the audio system, the speakers on the bus, the the Bach is alerted that there is an incident going on on that and they immediately have an open uh microphone and camera to that bus cuz all buses and the operator doesn't have to state anything because we acknowledge that stating something may put them or others in jeopardy. those are there for them. What we find when you when you pull over >> Uhhuh. >> So, let's say it's a verbal altercation between two passengers. Those verbal altercations and and we've talked about um fights that occur on the bus. A lot of those fights start with a verbal altercation that escalates. When an operator pulls over and opens the door and says this bus is not moving till this altercation stops, what normally happens is the altercation stops and or one of the people exits the bus. Um and so again that is that is a best practice that is a standard protocol. Rather than allowing that altercation to continue stop after stop you give an opportunity to break that cycle if you will that's going on and tends to escalate. But there are instances where that is not the appropriate thing to do and and operators have those tools at their disposal to immediately have Lee and his team on scene to assist them. >> Thank you so much for the clarification. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Thank you very much. Mr. Peacock. >> Great to Great. Thank you, Mrs. Mayor. I'm glad to hear that you appreciate that. Um, Bren, I want to thank you all. You all have done a really, really good job tonight. Um, I've watched your interview on WSOC. I realize that each of you are having to answer a lot of questions that are difficult. I appreciate Chief Jennings being here representing all the law enforcement that responded on the 22nd. Um, as well too, I see Michael Smith here, um, as well too with Charlotte Center City Partners. I know they've got a public safety working group. Um, while I don't see my friends, um, from the United Way, I know we have a home for all. Uh we're working on a city county corporate partnership that we're trying to pull together to address uh to address a lot of the community issues that we're talking about. Uh but Mr. Kaggel, I wanted to to share with you um a rather unusual uh Friday night for me. Um last Friday night I ate dinner and finished up and uh I know that no one here at this das has ever multitask while watching TV and also watching a screen on your hand but it inspired me that I was tired of looking at all these tweets about all the problems that were occurring and my wife has seen me do this. I just jumped up and I said, "I'm going to ride run ride the light rail." And so I rode the light rail from 9:20 until 11:20 on Friday night from Newurn to UNCC. It's 18 stops there and back. Just simply put on my observation glasses to see what was going on, Madame Mayor. And um number one, first observation is it's a rolling living room. Uh it is our community on full display. That night, ASU was playing UNCC. There was an electric nature to it. There were people that were entering that were young. There were old. There were hospital workers. There were construction workers. You just really saw what I consider to be a very mature transit system uh in full display. Um I did interact with two of your PSS individuals, interestingly, right at the East West stop. Um I had a brief conversation with one of them. It was most positive. I noticed that he had uh handcuffs and I think what appeared to be maze. Um that was all we talked about and I know that he was in a a 10-hour shift. So it was a significant amount of time um as it relates to that. Um by the time I came back um Mr. Mayor I I came back and simply the question to me is uh can we remain an open platform system? Um this also brought me back to a similar thing that I had done in 1999 while living in Washington DC. Many of us were all worried about what was going to happen at the turn of the clock in 1999 and was the world going to come down at the year 2000. And I lived in between East and West Falls Church metro stops. I frequently used them to go into Washington DC. And it too was around 9:30 at night. And I said, I want to go to the Washington National Mall now because I want to see the clock turn and I'm not getting scared. I think we're going to be okay. So the number one thing that night, Mr. Manager, was all about security. Was there going to be a mass attack on our rails? And that's what I thought about the most as I was riding back. What would happen for my friend here who's been in a New York metro system where we have had significant attacks is how can we control security when we don't know who's exactly on the train or not on the train and it's simply open. I've just worried about security, broad security. if we had an incident where someone detonated something, any type of incident, how would we be able to respond to that? Um, so, um, I I commend you all for for how you're answering these questions tonight. I'm pleased to see that we have a council action coming here on September 22nd. It's a mutual aid agreement between CMPD and PSS. Uh my question for you all has just been uh you have a mutual agreement that will allow PSS officers to address transit related security issues that may be extend that may extend beyond cat's property. So the the question I have is is that have we not had a relationship with CMPD? Why are we having to set up an agreement? Historically we have not. Um, and so as we talk about transit policing and how we work in collaboration, this is something that Lee and the CAT security team, Eric has identified as another tool that will help us and CMPD, not just CATS, work together better. Um, there are jurisdictional issues and I I won't I'm not an attorney. Um, so I don't want to get into all of the details, but there are jurisdictional issues that our employees as well as CMPD run into between uh the cat's properties and other, you know, off-propy areas. And so this will help us better manage that. It will also give us better ability specifically in the south end to work and collaborate with CMPD along the rail trail and other areas that connect those platforms but are not specifically the platforms. We also have jurisdictional issues uh at bus stops. Um those are again another area. So so again the mutual aid agreement. So, let me say this. Security is not one thing. Um, every great security plan is layered. It's many things together to create security. The mutual aid agreement is not the one thing. It is a thing that goes into our layered approach and assists CMPD and PSS and Eric and his team as we're all working together to increase security throughout the community but also throughout the transit system. >> One other question if you could you go to slide nine the one that we've pointed to internal and external. Mhm. >> Just wanted to point out on the the rise of incidents and I look forward to getting you all's report back. Um I was sworn in on May 20th and on May 22nd um it was reported in the Observer that Jolene Hopper, she was thrown on a platform and was strangled. She had three stitches and she had a broken elbow. Um don't know where the status of that report is, but I look forward to to learning more about that. Um, many of you all may have seen the news stories. On August the 12th, um, on a Cat's bus at Carolina Place Mall in Pineville, a veteran was attacked by four individuals. I'm on that another August 29th, uh, at the CTC. Um, from there, um, final observation, Mrs. Mayor, just from the other night, um, and I was thinking about you. Um, I I've been in the airport and I've heard your voice. >> Yes, I have, too. >> I've heard your voice. I like it. I think it's a great reminder um that you're welcoming us here. I wonder why we don't have a reminder to those riding on the individuals on the train for everyone, myself included, not only what is going to be the next stop that's coming, but I'm surprised that we don't have an announcement that displays and tells us what happens if you don't pay a fine or pay your fair. What's the fine? >> Yeah. >> What what happens to repeat offenders? and and I think we need to I think that needs to to be put over the PA system. Maybe it wasn't on my train. I I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That is a great suggestion and is something we can look at. There is signage on our vehicles stating all of that. Um but that we can we can certainly look at that. >> Train coming. I'd like to hear train coming. If you haven't paid your fair >> and the police, >> you could be asked to be removed from the train. >> Number one, you're only going to be asked a couple time. I mean, I'm just I'm trying to give practical tips that we can use tomorrow if we possibly can. Whether it's the mayor's message, whether it's an automated voice, I I don't care, but we need to remind people that if you're going to ride our system, you need to pay. >> Yes, sir. >> And I think that happens and I I noticed this with bus riders. When bus riders get on, I I see that the way that the the individual, the bus driver, has turned people away. and most if they don't have the money they might not get on but that's very hard to do in an open architecture system like we have right now >> that so so we instruct our bus operators not to do what you just said I won't say it never happens but we instruct our bus operators not to do what you just said they are there to operate the bus not to enforce because we do see we have had so rise in severity of incidents things that maybe were verbal altercations. If you don't have the money, you can't ride. And there's maybe some back and forth verbal turns into physical assault of the operators. And postco that has become a very real concern both in the number of times that our operators were being assaulted and in the severity of the assault. The fairbox is the point of contention on the bus between an R not always but generally speaking between an operator and the passenger. >> Final final comment just and I don't know where this idea would fall but I know at our airport we have volunteers who welcome people to Charlotte. They're wearing a vest. They're very pleasant. They're very positive. This falls in the category that you said. You have people that are fully armed, partially armed, and not armed. >> And I don't believe that our system can completely be staffed at full tilt all the time. You've already said that to a standard we can't achieve. Is it possible for us to be able to utilize individuals from our community who are interested in public safety that could be a part of being a very pleasant and positive force to remind people and to be there and to show some some sense of order in that regard that are wearing identifiable volunteer um things simply to help people moving in and around the system. >> Yes. What you're describing is the bus ambassador program. Those folks generally are not volunteering. They are being paid but they are not serving a security function. They are there to assist passengers with questions. How do I pay? How does this app work or those kinds of things and and what you're describing is the bus ambassador program or the ambassador program that we look to continue expanding. >> Okay. Thank you, Mrs. Mayor. Thank you. Appreciate it, Brent. >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you. Our next um speaker I believe is that did you Watlington? >> Watlington. >> Watlington. Miss Watlington. Sorry. Yeah. You got to go to back to first grade. >> Miss Watlington. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um as I sit and listen to the presentation, thank you for your work. Thank you, Mr. Ratliff, for everything that you've done. And I know over the last 8 months there's been a huge amount of investment um into uh security on our trains. And I think about at the end of the day what could have been done to prevent the tragedy that was the murder of Ireina Zerutka. When we think about crime overall, we're seeing it all over the place, right? It's not something that's specific to public transportation. It's not something that's specific to Charlotte or even to the US, particularly uh postco. We see an increase in in crime in general. As we think about the continual ongoing decadesl long underinvestment in mental health resources, we see that there is a connection between um between uh crime and a lack of mental health resources. Um what sticks out to me is a number of things in light of the conversation that we had earlier tonight in terms of our uh transportation uh referendum and it's that safety investment is just important as the infrastructure investment, right? And so we've got to consider the impact even on the available funding is that we'll intend to generate when we talk about misspairs, when we talk about the amount of investment that needs to go into security measures um for a transit system that we're talking about expanding to. There's some real there's some real investment there. And even with all of that, we still have to ask ourselves the question, though it doesn't sit specifically within the city, but it sits uh within other entities, our other intergovernmental partners. What else can we do to invest in mental health resources? Because I think that at the end of the day, that's probably the biggest thing that we can do here. Um when you talk about fair evasion, yes, it's important. To me, that's more of a revenue thing than a safety thing. Um because if you look at other cities across the world, the same things are occurring with various levels of um safety outcomes. And so, I don't know that there's a direct connection between fair evasion and violent crime in particular, maybe quality of life issues, but unless you're going to be able to tie that person's fair to their identity in some way, it doesn't to me show up as a diversion of any kind. when it comes to when it comes to crime, specifically um violent crime, especially considering that we don't have the resources and we're acknowledging right now that we will never have the resources to enforce it broadly. Um, so given that, I think we need to bifurcate this conversation and talk about what we can do from a crime standpoint across the board, which just so happens to show up in our public transportation and these quality of life issues and associated revenue issues as we think about a broader transportation system. Um, thinking about the one of the earlier slides that was shared in regards to the perception of safety for riders versus non- riders, that is an important component. Um, I think the more important piece of data is what non-riders think because if we're talking about investing in a system where we want to convert drivers into riders, we've got to speak to them from where from where they are. Um so it would be interesting to see those numbers juxtaposed against this. Um >> they are um Miss Watlington. So that is what this slide is showing. >> The darker blue are in effect non-riters. The lighter blue are writers. >> Thank you. That's helpful. And so okay so then that that underscores it here. 40 around 40% versus mid70s >> significantly lower. You see 70s to 80s versus uh around 40. Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. And I think part of that is what you see in the media. Um certainly we understand that because crime numbers are down that if you looked at the facts you know that there is is less crime per capita. But when that's what you see on a daily basis when you are um interacting if you will or even just being made aware of the public transportation system then certainly there's there's a lot more work to be done in terms of how to address that in particular. I don't know if it's insenting people to ride, but when you couple that with the um the inconvenience of it, um I I just think we've got a huge you got a huge u mountain to climb as it relates to that. We really have to ask ourselves as a community, do we make additional investment considering where we are? Again, that's a conversation for another topic, but I think there's intersectionality there. Uh just a couple of quick things. You've answered some of these questions already. Um, but I did want to go back to this idea of bus design for safety. I know there were some things that were done for drivers um through COVID in particular, but are there any other benchmark um opportunities to to improve the bus design itself? Not the shelters, not the lighting, not talking about an open or closed system, but just uh to improve the experience when you're on the bus or on the train in terms of safety like physical design changes. Have we explored that at all >> from a passenger standpoint? >> Correct. >> Not that I'm aware of beyond physical presence technology having folks present throughout the system, not necessarily on each vehicle, but having security, fair evasion, ticket checkers, those kinds of things. having that physical visible presence as well as um uh video surveillance and those kinds of things using using technology tools. Um if you mean specifically is there a way to sort of um separate each passenger from the others? >> Well, I don't that may be a solution that I'm not necessarily advocating for that specific thing, but I am I come from manufacturing and there's a difference between behavioral safety measures and pokeyoking it. Like if you've got safety guarding around the equipment for example, you can't stick your hand in unless you break a light curtain or whatever and it immediately shuts the equipment off. That's different than trying to remind everybody to make sure that they lock out tag out for example. You're relying on behaviors versus the actual components of the system. Um so I'd be interested to see if there's any um if there's any. >> Yeah. We um if I may, we we talk about security through environmental design when it comes to the actual structure itself and whether or not the engineering itself relates to potential vulnerabilities that may align with a potential event. Right. um our I would say that our buses and our trains as far as meeting the standards related to environmental design and uh that design being a mitigator in uh potential security issues or promoting potential vulnerabilities. Um we're dealing with new systems. Uh there's clean lines of sight. the way the the way the seating is oriented, it it lends itself to a more secure uh structure because of that environmental design. >> Thank you. That's helpful. That's that's exactly the kind of thing that I'm thinking about. So, if there's any additional new um opportunity to investigate that or to reapply something, certainly that could be a another option. Um everything else I believe you pretty much hit on, but I will just leave us with this idea that um we cannot get around uh Chief Jennings has said this many times. We can't police our way out of the problem. Um we know that we have worked to um try to secure additional resources for our district attorney's office past the budget, but that's another discussion. Um um I think we can't have this discussion without having a serious discussion about investing in mental health resources. Uh thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um I too want to send my condolence to the family of the the young lady that we lost. Uh I certainly know the impact of um senseless murder and the impact on the family and so uh my condolence go to her family and friends. Um I have two series of questions and I'll be quick. I know we've been at this for a while. U wish the manager was here. Um uh and I'll ask that last question last in reference to I think there was a slide that showed two CMP officers assigned to cats. >> Yeah. Assigned CMP officers too. And so is there a way for us to and the chief is there and thank him for being a part of the conversation uh of increasing that number? I mean immediately. Uh, and is there resources, Mr. Manager, if he was here, that we can augment until the private security um um gear up um staff up um I I think that even if this incident didn't occur, that's an amazing low number to me. >> So So let me explain that. >> If you can tell me what they do and >> Yeah, let me explain that. I think that number is a little bit deceptive um in that what they are doing is literally daytoday coordinating onsite. Now I don't want you to take away that there are two CMPD officers in the whole city who assist us. There's an entire uh police force who does that. Uh, in fact, Saturday after this, >> specifically assigned to cats, >> not specifically assigned to cats, but collaborating with cats actively throughout the districts in the system. Specifically, as a good example, Saturday after this tragic event, I was on the phone with Chief Jennings and we were coordinating how PSS and CMPD could work together as we increased presence. So I I yes these are two assigned officers but I I would never want to give the impression that we don't work hand in hand throughout the city with CMPD because we absolutely do and their officers are always there to assist back us up and likewise and the mutual aid agreement helps move that collaboration and partnership forward even more. >> Okay. So, so I get that. Um, but again, is there a need for specifically assigned CMPD officers, whether or not they're offduty officers, uh, to can help uh, mitigate some of the shortage until they're fully staffed that we can immediately employ uh, to enhance public safety immediately. Let us evaluate that and come back with an answer. I mean clearly um um personnel is is a good thing and so let us evaluate that and let me have a chance to talk to the manager and Chief Jennings related to I >> I think that would go a long way to immediately respond to the perception and I'll get to that perception again but this is reality right some someone was killed uh on the on the transit line several people were killed at the transit station in uptown right And I think there needs to be a dedicated specifically to work with private security offduty police officers working with the system directly. Uh and if there's a budgetary item that we can do, I think we we should do and especially in reference to this this this text I got in the last time we had this conversation about public safety which was in February that started in December. So, we've been here before, right? We're not talking about public safety. And the last time I even used that, if you if you don't feel safe, you're not safe, which is still true, and talked about the perception, but it's not perception, it's reality, right? people uh for whatever reason, this one is certainly um mind-boggling because the young lady and the and the and the gentleman gentleman didn't interact at all until the incident occurred. Uh and so I know we can't have a police in every corner. We can have a police in every transit car, but certainly I think a higher degree of law enforcement presence with no disrespect to private policing I think is a needed and needed probably immediately especially in reference to this text I got. Right. So are there any plans to have security on light rail during events? It's a powder cake waiting for a match on game days. Way too packed. very very unsafe. It's amazing more stuff doesn't happen. I stopped going to soccer matches dated Monday, March 25th. And so is there a a level of policing when we know that there's a football game, a soccer match, uh a big event in uptown that people are going to uptown? Is there a a heightened level of security? >> Yes, sir. from both CMPD and from PSS. Um in we do see uh large crowds uh especially on the blue line for special events and yes there is an increased presence around those events. >> What's that look like? What does it I mean I mean >> there's a lot we can talk about and there's some things that we cannot talk about specific need to get to the mic. >> Come over here. >> Yeah. So, we can't go into specific numbers. Um, and I think that's more of a TSA. >> Yeah, it's uh we don't want to give away our security posture by talking in a in an open environment and giving away our capability. It's an SSI uh uh discussion that we would that we would normally have and this is not necessarily the forum to have that discussion. >> Yeah. because what we don't want to do is kind of tip our hat on some of the strategies that we use uh when we come into these uh type of events and venues. Um I will say that we do work closely with CMPD and some of the other uh resources that we put in play when we do have special events. Um if we work together collectively, we can achieve a lot. And I think that's the spirit of what we're trying to establish here is the the ability to work together and share information. It's not just the police department, it's not just security, it's the public as well. Um and it works. Um just like the incident that happened the other day, uh when we were engaged with the public and they shared information with us and we were able to react to that situation and in that situation peacefully that means everybody walked away, nobody was injured >> peacefully. >> Peace well without incident. Okay. So, so >> not with Mr. Scott. >> No, no, no. This is a differenti scenario that we're talking about. I'm not talking about the >> So, so I I think the point is while we don't want to get into all of the operational details because they are SSI. Absolutely. During special events, um there is increased presence both from CAT security as well as CMPD in acknowledgement of the crowds that will be coming. I will also say and one thing that Lee has done very well is he has divided the system into districts just like CMPD divides the city into precincts. Um the and we analyze the data to understand the unique needs of each district to place security personnel who is focused on those needs in each district. And certainly the needs of Uptown are not necessarily the same needs as South End or uh the Northern District. Um and so those are all things that are going on, but there are certainly increased um security presence and protocols that are occurring during special events. >> And then secondly, I I unlike um Council Member Peacock, I I didn't ride, but I did take the opportunity to walk around the transfer station in Uptown, and from my perspective, it has outlived its useful existence. Um it's it's it needs to be replaced for a wide variety of reasons. Would love to get a status update since the old conversation we had with you know the the Hornets about really the status of the transit station uptown. Uh it is really problematic um for a wide variety of reasons. Uh and I and I think we we just notwithstanding what may happen in November uh that I I think we need to address that issue uh sooner than later. Um um because I think it's just time. It's too small, too dark uh open air environment. Anyone can walk through. We closed the uh some of the restaurants um which is good and bad, right? because if you're a ride, you still want to be able to get something before you jump on the next bus, right? So, I I just hope that we can have a conversation uh about that. Uh and then more broadly, right, and I'll I'll be quiet. Um I just hope um that we can have a an honest conversation about where we are in the community uh in reference to crime. um an honest conversation is acknowledging the data, right? We got to do that. But but also acknowledge that there's several highprofile incidents, whether it's on our quarters of opportunity, whether it's individuals shooting into occupied dwellings, right? U whether it's on our CAT system. Um that shocks the conscience. uh and makes people in our community feel that we they're not safe uh and that we aren't doing anything. And we had this conversation, Mr. Manager, in December and January and February about public safety. We had a lot of talk and it seemed like we're just running in a wellworn circle. Um, I I I would love to get to know if we're making progress uh with the county on in reference to collaborating on issues related to to to mental health. Are we measuring that? Are we further down the road now than we were in February? I I don't know. Um I would love again to we talked about our quarters of opportunities again to get more measurements on public safety activities on these quarters. it's we're we're making significant investment and we we're not talking about crime. Um uh we're not holding individuals accountable and individuals and institution and businesses who are allowing some of these things to occur on their property. And I'm not sure uh again um our reaction and and I'm a member of the board so I'll accept it too as pointing a finger at myself as well is we tend to be more reactive than proactive right and and and it's not that people aren't doing anything. We were They're doing a lot. I' I've been to cops and coffee. Chief Jennings probably three, four or five in the last six weeks. So, I'm out there. I'm talking to the officers. They're doing a good job. Uh they are generally responding when something happens, right? They're trying to to be proactive. We have our alternative to violence program. We have stood up this youth department dealing with youth. So, we're doing all the right things. Um but we can't get around the narrative about what's happening in our community. Uh especially in our uptown living room, right? Um and I I just think that somehow Mr. Manager and council, we got to find a way and I'll I'll refer and ask the chairman of the public safety committee. She's she's good in data and deeping diving deep. This may be an opportunity that we really need to dive deep, right? and figure it out. And and I think part of that, Council Member Wallington, is being assertive in enforcement and not being afraid to say that we're going to do that because I think the Times have called for us to do that. And so I don't think we need to stand up a committee. I think we have a committee that we really need to give her committee the charge to help us figure this thing out. And it's just not cats, it's all of it because we have these conversations and it goes into a hole until something else happens again. And we're right back here, me still reading text messages from constituents who are really concerned about public safety, whether it's on the rail, the transit, a corridor, or someone shooting in their homes. Thank you. >> All right, Mr. Jones. So, um, mayor, members of council, thank you, uh, for the opportunity. I first want to acknowledge the horrible incident that needs to be addressed on many levels. And so, mayor, I appreciate having the conversation tonight and the concepts of quality of life. I appreciate Mayor Pro Tim about the horizontal integration. I appreciate Dr. Watlington about how do we really look at everything that's that's happening. I do want to make sure that I take a big step back and go to 2022 and uh tell you Brandt how much I appreciate you and what you've done to uh step in to stabilize cats um trying to bring confidence back in transit. I don't think we would have had the previous conversation tonight about if not for the the hard work. I also, you know, let's not let it be lost on us that Brent skimmed over a a trienal report with essentially no repeat findings. And I remember for about a year I would have to go to your committee uh Mr. Driggs and sat beside Liz with Brent being um on the other side to try to make sure this this confidence came back at least in in the operations. Um, I will tell you, uh, Council Member Peacock, I can't wait to get the incident data. I I I pray that we use the data to inform decisions because a lot of times we've moved away from data to perception. And I get it. I get it. Sometimes perception becomes reality. Uh the other thing I think is really important is uh as we start to go back thinking about uh 2020 three in 2024, we knew that we were going to have a big problem in terms of staffing at CMPD because it was 30 years later. I don't know what president it was, maybe it was Clinton when there were cop grants and and we had we knew that there would be this level of um people retiring. I want to give the council credit that what you were able to do is be able to actually hire police officers. And I'm not so sure that large cities are able to say that they are within a rock's throw of getting to the the complement of officers. Doesn't mean that we don't need 400 more. But the point being at least we're trending in the right direction when all the headwinds were before us. The the the one thing I think I need to do is I'll provide you um some of the information that you've done over the last six years. And what do I mean by that? If we go back to 2019, homicides were the highest that we had seen since the 1990s. And so, so what happened then, you know, we had a conversation about this framework um with public safety, excuse me, um health safety and health as a middle as a as a crisis. And what we did um there's a framework between the city and the county that both bodies agreed to. And there are five pillars and a lot of the things we're talking about are within those five pillars. Uh we did something you guys did something which I thought was pretty amazing in 2020 also when you had the safe Charlotte um report there were six priority areas where a bunch of good work has been done there. Um when we start to talk about we launched the hospital hospital-based violence intervention, we launched the CARES team, we launched the quality of life team, we um actually looked at the 2024 annual strategy meeting and said juvenile crime as a focus. Um we went into this public safety series that you discussed. Um but also we you set aside $4.5 million just for juvenile crime, including 2.5 million for the Katie Blessing Center. I I can just stop right there, but it's six pages of things that we've done. So, I guess my ask and I think that's where you're going, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim, where all of you are going tonight. What what's going to be different? And and I think what's different is some of our partners are in the room, um like the district attorney, like some of our nonprofits, and is there an opportunity to figure out what are the things that the city of Charlotte does well? What are the things that the county does well? What are the things that there needs to be um efforts in Raleigh to to change things? And one and I'll start with this one. For instance, you know, we know that when a police officer gets to a certain number of years with the city and a number age with the city, they're going to retire because of the supplement. Is there a way that we can have these seasoned officers just stay with us a little bit longer? So, I don't know the answer to to all the questions. Um, and I know there was something that the legis the legislature tried, but I guess what I'm saying is that there is an opportunity to approach this in a little different way with having more partners at the table as opposed to the city of Charlotte and the city council trying to solve everything. But that was just it. >> All right. >> Mayor, thank you. Okay, that I just I just did not want to um not give you that opportunity. But um >> I think that is well said, Mr. Triggs. Um with that though, we have some other folks. Miss Brown, >> thank you. I think I was like the fourth person, but thank you. >> Okay, thank you. I just had some questions. Um thank you for the presentation and thank you Mr. Ratliff and Mr. Osmus. Is that >> Osmus? >> Osmus. Thank you. I also want to extend my condolences to the family of Arena Zerutska. It was a tragedy. Um, so I appreciate the update. You mentioned, Mr. Kagel, you mentioned the survey. Have we surveyed the drivers? Um, because I've I've heard that the drivers don't feel safe. Do we have information from the drivers um on on how they feel as far as safety? >> Uh let me check. I'm not sure. We do survey employees. I'm not sure when the last survey was, but I I can go back and get that data. Um I believe that what we are hearing is accurate right there. operators. This has shaken these events shake all of us, the entire community, operators, staff, riders, everyone. And so certainly this has an effect on operators and the violence against operators certainly has effect. What we have heard is again I'll pull the data but that we are moving in the right direction. The CTC is visibly changed. It's not perfect today, but it's far better than it was. Um removing um a an operator's sense of obligation to enforce those fairs has helped. >> So, let me ask you about that. Mhm. >> If a person does not pay their fair, and this kind of piggybacks off what council member Mayfield was was saying, if they don't pay their fair, is there any reporting of that? Is there a call made or is that kind of just accepted? >> Yeah. So, the operators have the ability to record that. There's a button on the fair box that says in effect, didn't pay. >> Okay. >> Um, so they record that. Do they call for security immediately? Not always. Okay. If there are other reasons why, yes, that alone, not always. Um but that recording of non-payment then becomes data that security can review so that they understand where that is occurring most frequently and they start to position um security folks to to um to do that fair enforcement. >> Thank Mr. Jones. Can we get a report of missed fairs? Can you get that to council because that speaks to the revenue and we just want to know how big of an issue that is. Thank you. You mentioned that um we could not change the system to a closed sess uh system because of the design in on some of the stops. But are there stops that we could change to uh closed stations? and and and you don't have to answer that now, but I'd like to kind of explore that or just get some information on what that would be. >> You can answer that now. Yes. >> Okay. >> Generally speaking, they will be um on the Blue Line Extension or other areas not in Center City or South End. Um but yes, there are some stations that are large enough that yes, you could install turn styles or those kinds of things. you still have the problem of someone trying to evade fairs by walking up the tracks because the tracks themselves cannot be enclosed because they cross they cross roads frequently. Um, but I I would say I I would I would be concerned about the safety of someone trying to evade fairs by walking up the tracks. Okay. >> I also would be concerned about partially closing the system and h that the effect that has from an equity standpoint. >> Thank you. Okay. And how can the public get a copy of this presentation? I think there was a Facebook issue or a problem with Facebook. Uh >> we can make it available. This presentation will also be given tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. with the MTC. >> Okay. Um, so it will also be available via the MT the city's website where the MTC data uh presentations are available. We but we can make it available. Um, I will work with communications and Jason Schneider's team to make the presentation available. >> Great. Thank you. Kudos um on the progress with the cats connect. I think that's important to to integrate the mental health services. Um Mr. U or Mr. Eric or Mr. Osmus, you mentioned that jails aren't hospital or aren't hospitals or CMPD officers can't be mental health um professionals. You're absolutely right. And so I would say the jails can't be hospitals either. This is a mental this one. It seems to be a mental health um problem. Th it was reported or I heard I didn't read it so I I want to be sure. Do we know if Mr. Brown had had a previous court date where he was found not um competent to >> I do not know. I've seen what was reported and it seems that he had a um he had had several incidents or run-ins with law enforcement, but I I do not know if he had had a previous I cannot answer that. >> So, I appreciate the part the partners that are here, but you know, we need to work with the state. This is kind of an intergovernmental issue. We need to work with the state. We need mental health resources. Um because we had a a shooting, a police involved shooting the the next day and that was a mental health condition where the gentleman had been refused or the family had been refused an IVC an involuntary commitment order. So when we're not addressing mental health, people get hurt or killed. So we we have to do something. And it's not necess it's not on city council or cats alone. It's you know we all need to work together. So if I don't know if if we can have an intergovernmental committee meeting um but we really have to do something for our our residents and um and then you said it was Mr. Ratliff. Thank you for the work that you've done. I know that you've only been contracted in eight months. Do we have anywhere the the work and the progress that you've done over the last eight months? I know there's been quite a a few changes. >> So, we started this project on in December the 14th of 2024. Is that correct? Yeah. And for lack of a better word, it was a lot of challenges that we saw, some things that we needed to go back and relook at. Um, one is the distribution of manpower. So, and I know, you know, we probably letting a little bit of our secret sauce out in the community, but I think it's okay in this particular uh moment because it people need to know the work that we've done. Um, the first thing we had to do is look at how big the system is and how do we break it down into small segments and we can hire folks that we can hold accountable for those areas. same as CMPD, we do um um response areas and districts. Um we've we've taken that same model and that same approach. And so we've created three um districts, northern, southern, and central. By doing so, we created response areas and then we start to assign officers in those response areas so that they will be highly visible as well as responsive um to anything that that happened along the line. Um, now there's some other things that's involved in this when it comes to the facilities and that's a different dup group of officers and different set of challenges. But before December the 14th when I sat before you um the year or before when we first came about this project um we were responsible for the facilities and the buses. And so we worked hard to turn that around and change some hearts and minds. And it's not perfect. Nothing that we do will ever be perfect. Uh, but we we felt like in December we looked at a lot of the challenges that were facing cats and we were asked if we would step up and help. And my wife and I, we we really thought about it hard because we knew it was a challenge and we decided that we are going to put our heads down and we're going to use our minds, our resources, the people that we love. Um, we love this community and we are going to put our best foot forward to change hearts and minds and get this right. >> Great. Um, and one of the things I really wanted to focus on is the training, building the training programs, revamping the the the dispatch center, um, creating uh the equipment that we needed to make sure that we had the right equipment for our officers. The training program, that was a biggie because what we had to do is sit down and look at everything that was different and the model that we wanted to implement required us to have our officers trained a different way and so that's what we focused on. >> Good. Well, thank you. Thank you for that information. You mentioned that it was hard to find or to recruit officers. I was just thinking from an HR I think that's what you said. It was hard to find people. Did you say that? >> Uh the CEO. >> I said that. Yes. >> Okay. Well, I was just thinking individuals who didn't make it through the CMPD training or or their application didn't make it through the next process. I don't know if HR could reach out to them or if those would be individuals who'd be interested. >> And that's great. I'm glad you mentioned that because a lot of times we have people who want to be in law enforcement. >> Right. Okay. Uh they they want to be in law enforcement but at the same time uh they don't have they haven't been introduced to it and so this is a way to build this program with people with entry level coming into the security aspect of it and then gradually working their way towards law enforcement and we've had some of our officers transfer over to CMPD and we're very proud of that. I think that would be a great collaboration. You know, even in working with CMPD, if they're not if they don't if they're not ready for CMPD, maybe they can be referred to you and then, you know, that would be like a next level for your offices as well. Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. That's all I have. >> Maintain a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. Thank you guys so much. I am extremely tired and exhausted. Thank you, Madame Mayor, as I'm sure as everybody else is. No need to go back all over that information. You guys do great work. You got your organization chart up here, which is what I wanted to I was going to have you go back to that because there's no hierarchy and safety, but you have a great team and you implemented the action plan to try to get some of these things resolved. Definitely. Uh the young lady that lost her life was in district three. I yield to you. Did not do any media interviews cuz you guys are the subject matter experts and it's a very very sensitive subject and so I'll I yield to you. So thank you so much for interviewing and doing what you did and putting out the information you did from an expert standpoint on that side. Heard all my colleagues. Everybody opinions are very important. But u Mr. Kegel, I want to really get down and be and be really quick. Um, I heard a lot of information, but what I did not hear, I I'm never um coming from where I come from and doing the work that I do. CMPD, I I want to spare them when it comes to uh responding to I did say condolences to the beautiful young lady and her family because I have two beautiful daughters and they mean everything to me. So, my heart goes out to her family and everybody who's affected by her loss, but my my heart also goes out to Mr. Brown's family because I have mental health in my family deep. I want to share um we go back down to 2022 when we lost Mr. Ethan Riviera. 2024 we had Joshua Overton. In 2025, we had Lan McBth. I might be pronouncing them wrong and no disrespect in regards to that. In August 2025, we had a 57 year old veteran whose name was not disclosed publicly. March 25th, we had a 64y old uh 64 year old veteran who was paralyzed and Quao um Trayvon Daniels, 31, in April 2025. And then more recently, the beautiful young lady on the light rail. We have to remember that CMPD and over policing it's not the answer. It's not gonna happen. Um I know safety and some things they need to be dispatched to. I don't disagree with that at all. But the preventative measures if we could put those in place. Um so people that are unsheltered normally the PTSD comes from being incarcerated. The sometimes um the mental health and unwellness they they can expand to a big crisis. But do we have and I would like to see um extensive mental health, expand the crisis response teams, you know, strengthen mobile crisis unit and maximizing and get the training in intergovernment like one of my colleagues says crossing over with the county the crisis stabilization centers. I don't know if we have any of that and if even even people know what that means, but how they work and how they work in other areas uh places where I've been and how the crime goes down and and we got to train and train and train for trauma informed care. I don't know if we have I'm just speaking on that because everybody said CMPD needs to be dispatched. We need more police officers. They need to go here. They need to go there. They cannot be everywhere. And so I'm going to I'm going to spare them. Uh because when it comes to mental health, they don't need to respond. Uh I I want to see us expanding community- based mental health clinics, peer support groups, housing stability programs, workforce that supports people that have mental challenges, unwellness, that are unsheltered, and before they reach their breaking point. That means so much to me. And then build the bridge and partnerships with veterans and nonprofit organizations. This this work is so important and so needed and we just do not have enough of it. I leave with this. When we are making these policies for individuals that are are challenged to the point of where they just need to be embraced and loved and they have they there's a different level of care that they are needed. We did we we fail people with mental health all the time. And I'm not a mental health expert but I know for a fact I read some things. don't know if it's factual that should not have Mr. Brown should have probably been in a different um environment where he was cared for on a different level. I'm going to say that for the record and people might want to want to say that because we're speaking of the young lady that left Ukraine to come over here to be safe, but what about all the other folks that was on CATS and they wanted to be safe as well? You know, to me, we we lost Ethan. He was our driver in in February 2022. So things like this, it is very near and dear to my heart. And that's what I'm going to leave you with. Over policing is not the answer. It's not the answer. Police might need to be in some areas, but when it comes to mental health, I don't think they need to be there. We have nonprofit organizations that are trained. If not, we need to partner and contract with them. Thank you for all the work that you do, your team, all the work that you do. Like I said, when it cames, I have several media requests. You did that. Thank you so much for that. But we got to we got to figure it out and and if we don't have the folks in the room that are the experts that have the lived experience, then we failed again. So, thank you so much. >> I give back to you, Madame Mayor. >> Thank you very much. I know it's been I know it's been a while that we've had time to do this, but I want to recognize exec make sure that you understand we will be getting information for all of the committees to talk about how we can do a number of these things. So, we're going to do that. Um, and I also um wanted to have the um we have a close session. So, but before we do this, I I just think sometimes we need to pause. So, just for a moment, take a moment and thinking about Arena and the discussion that we've had today, I think is in honor of her loss and for her family. We must understand that this was something that she came to the states, as Miss Brown said, to be um out of the war and here we are today. I also want to announce that at 9:00 tomorrow morning, the MTC will be meeting and they will have the same discussion, I think, if not more, um, with the council, I mean, with, um, with the MTC team. So, Brent, thank you very much and look forward to it. So, give us just a moment to get ready for our um, special meeting now. Yeah, Madame Mayor, there needs to be a motion. The motion should be to go into close session pursuant to North Carolina General Statute 143- 31811A3 to consult with an attorney on matters protected by the attorney client privilege uh in rel in relation to the actions captioned Walton versus City of Charlotte and Huffstadler versus City of Charlotte. That So move. >> We have a motion and a second. All in favor, please raise your hand. Um I think we did lose Miss Asher. So everyone else that we're >> I want to make sure we have our everyone. Are we going to do Are we doing this in here? [Music] [Music]