good evening everyone i call this meeting to order this is the land use planning and zoning committee of the city council all committee members are present today via zoom and this is a remote or online meeting where all participants will be on a video or audio conference we are holding this meeting remotely so that everyone can participate safely while we are conducting business it is this way we appreciate your patience members of the public will be able to address the committee if they have signed up for live public comment per the instructions published on the agenda and on our website friday speakers will be moved into the meeting and will remain muted with their camera off until they are called upon to speak at which point they can turn on their camera unmute themselves and will have two minutes to provide comments to the committee after that they will again be muted and returned to be an attendee of the zoom mip webinar written comments were also received and distributed to the committee members in advance of the meeting members of the public city staff and the media have the ability to view this meeting live through youtube and zoom webinar this live stream can be accessed from most smartphones tablets or computers for those watching on the live stream thank you very much for joining us we will start this meeting with public comment hello to those joining us to provide public comment here are the public comment ground rules comments are to be addressed to the committee members only through the chair please keep your comments germaine to the topics on the agenda and any disruptive conduct or non-german commentary will result in removal from the zeb web zoominar zoom webinar sorry guys each speaker will be given two minutes to provide public comment the timer will start once you begin speaking then the zoom moderator mr moya will let you know when your time is up mr moya would you please call the name of the first speaker thank you madam chair our first speaker is mr andrew lipman mr littman please uh go ahead and meet yourself and your two minutes will begin when you start speaking thank you thank you madam chair and counselors i appreciate your time and um i appreciate that to be able to speak to you um my name is andrew lippman i'm here as a vice president of the east gateway coalition of associations we represent the approximately 18 different neighborhood associations in district 9. i wanted to speak today really as a follow-up to the letter that we sent to all of the counselors addressed to councillor benton dealing with the neighborhood association recognition ordinance or the nero in particular we we identified a number of things in the actual bill but want to call your attention to two things the first is in section 14-8-2-3 application and criteria for recognition of neighborhood associations and it calls for payment of dues cannot be a prerequisite of membership or voting rights in the association this is problematic for a number of reasons and not the least of which is that as you'll see in more detail and what we sent to you ahead of time there are a lot of costs associated with the neighborhood association everything from insurance to refreshments in providing events so the june ju needs to be some dues to support those efforts however dues is never a barrier to anyone being involved in the neighborhood associations or or the coalition in fact most neighborhood associations will probably tell you they had difficulty even finding people to get involved so the amount of the jews and having dues is not a barrier to participation and we believe that it should be left up to the individual neighborhood associations because it's always covered in their bylaws as is mandated by the neighborhood thank you thank you i appreciate it our next speaker is julie drake miss drake please feel free turn your video on unmute yourself enter two minutes speaking i'm sure counselor um so mr lipman only addressed one issue could we ask him to come back on because i'd like to hear his second issue yes we could mr lipman would you mind waiting for the other speakers and joining at the end of this okay never mind they said they could you could do it right now okay thank you hopefully you can hear me uh the second issue really involves notice um the nero calls for notice of two people within a neighborhood association and we feel that anyone in a particular area should be able to opt into the notice the notices come by email it's very easy to add people electronically in today's age and it's problematic because oftentimes the designated people change uh varies from neighborhood association to neighborhood association how good their they are at distributing you know zoning change requests and that kind of thing to their members so we're asking that that be rewritten to allow for more board members of the neighborhood association and for actually anyone within an area to opt in to receive those notices thank you thank you mr libman the staff would you like to respond to that good evening councilor jones mr littman i'm vanessa baca the manager of the office of neighborhood coronation it's nice to meet you via zoom in a fashion i did want to address your question in reference to neighborhood association dues we are proposing an amendment later this evening that will address the question of dues and clarify that more to more that will address your question about it um the amendment intends to clarify that dues uh can be charged but membership and uh voting rights are not are not to be based on charging dues thank you miss baca we appreciate that clarification i would go to the next speaker please thank you madam chair our next speaker is julie drake uh please feel free turn your video on if you'd like and your two minutes will begin when you starts speaking i'm not sure how to turn on my video so i apologize for that i'm julie dreich i'm the president of the buddha canyon neighborhood association and secretary of the east gateway coalition of neighborhoods i'm in district 9. we've worked with other coalitions to provide this input and i appreciate the opportunity our comments were submitted on monday august 23rd by email to the committee members council members and their staff our recommendations are numerous in an effort to improve the proposed narrow for the good of the community i'll only speak to a couple of recommendations the first being the issue of notices related to the ido and neighborhood associations the opt in issue was part of the um nape report of november 2019 on page four um we think that the opt-in is a key for equitable and fair participation from the community the other issue in regards to dues andrew spoke to and vanessa addressed and so i won't say anything more about that and i appreciate the openness to make some changes there finally i've heard the counselors refer to the neighborhood engagement process as a contributing factor to the proposed narrow while i believe that the nate was fought i recognized that it was honest effort to gather input i ask that you give our comments from neighborhood association and input from neighborhood associations that same consideration our input is specific to the current proposal that you're reviewing and in efforts to make improvements thank you for this opportunity counselor benjamin do you have a comment yes just uh quickly uh appreciate the the comments by ms drake um and uh uh with regard to um the uh the nep versus any comments we're receiving uh and have been receiving since the introduction of the legislation i assure you that that um comments we're receiving currently and over the last year or so are given very much equal uh consideration so thanks i just wanted to answer that one question i don't know if staff wanted to uh perhaps uh address the issue of uh with regard to the ido and opting into notification thank you councillor ben miss baca would you like to comment on this or petra miss morris i think morris is going to give us some comments on this also good afternoon madam chair councillors um the in terms of the opt-in uh that would be a different type of gnosis than currently the ido considers and so to make that sort of um structural change to the notice would be more appropriate under an ideo annual update rather than the this narrow update process uh the neighborhood association recognition ordinance the narrow is is really about um the roles and responsibilities and formation of of neighborhood associations um whereas ideo notices is about the ido and and so the idea is that the better location for that uh more systemic uh change thank you miss morris i think we'll move on to our next speaker now if there are any other questions councilor do you have a question yeah i just uh wanted to ask the staff to comment on the neighborhood engagement process miss baca yes i'd be happy to speak to that so i wanted just to um address your inquiry about the neighborhood engagement process overall i know there have been quite a few questions about it in 2017 october 2017 the city council uh announced their intent to address the shortcomings in the current narrow and subsequently contracted two independent consultants who engaged with 222 neighborhood association and homeowners citywide via phone and email uh there are 93 neighborhood association face-to-face choice dialogues conducted there are 159 flash interviews in both english and spanish at four community centers in the city's four quadrants and a number of group discussions hosted by the consultants themselves overall the consultants talked with city councillors other city departments and staff neighborhood association board members and general members homeowner association members neighborhood coalitions and individuals individuals not affiliated with a neighborhood association the overall outreach was conducted over 22 months total and it culminated in the consultants giving an overview presentation to the city council in november 2019 which all the neighborhood associations and coalitions were invited regular updates on the nap were shared with the public through the onc's neighborhood newsletter and the weekly e-news as well as the onc's website and social media venues this information is still available to the public on the onc's website as well as the narrow update website on the city council home page um i don't know if you had any more specific questions than that but i'm happy to answer them no that that was a good summary thank you vanessa thank you thank you miss bakker thank you councillor borrego any other questions from the council next speaker please thank you madam chair our next speaker is dr joe vias dr vice please feel free to turn your video on and meet yourself injured two minutes will begin when you start speaking thank you and greetings again i want to make some general comments because we've already submitted numerous concise issues that we would like to have addressed but i want to address what vanessa bacca just said about the nip our question has always been is we have never heard which of the recommendations that the net in phase three gave to city council because there are some very favorable things there for neighborhood associations and positive things about what it is that they wanted from the city and that did not come out in the narrow the trouble with this four-year-long narrow process is that it's been a totally top-down and we know better than you can construct the core issue is about trust for those riding on 71 it's clear you effectively kept kept us away from the process at just about every step one has to wonder where did the mistrust or neighborhood associate for neighborhood associations come from was there a resounding claim of abuses on the part of associations and if so is it verifiable or was it about a few disgruntled members because we've not been aware of narrow abuses on our part is it about the leadership within the associations we can't help it if our membership keeps trusting us to represent them or is it a mindset that began or is it a mindset that began with the ideal planning strategy to control neighborhoods because they have too much power and i'm referring to the inter-office planning memos that i think are valid um this four-year hiatus started with one newly formed neighborhood association extending its boundaries over another that had been inactive that problem has was solved however we don't currently experience neighborhood associations taking over other neighborhood associations yet the revised neighborhood is replete with such inferences we would warn the council of what a recently retired experienced and savvy counselor once warned the city council if you don't get buy-in at the beginning it will come back to bite you in the behind and so i'm not going to drive you i'm going to take more time thank you thank you thank you dr bias does staff have any comments on this apparently not next speaker please counselor borrego i'm sorry i keep missing your hand up there in the corner thank you i'll start waving thank you um so um this question is for vanessa um baca miss baca so um dr vice mentioned that the nap was never shared or maybe sporadically shared can you comment regarding that please yes counselor i'd be happy to address that so the reports that the consultants put together that included the data that they collected during the neighborhood engagement process were summarized in a report that is currently on the neighborhood association engagement uh website the nep website rather it's also on the neighborhood association recognition ordinance project website as well and in it they summarize their findings and they break down the different findings that they had and we actually did use that report and the findings of the consultants to inform the first draft and the second draft and in fact i will be addressing later on in the meeting that specific issue and giving the specific uh instances in which the feedback that was collected during the narrow was incorporated into this draft but not the narrow the nap and all these acronyms are confusing i know so during the neighborhood engagement process there were several uh findings that we did incorporate into the draft narrow and there were some findings that we did not incorporate into the narrow and i will give an overview of all of those and the reasons why the ones that were not incorporated into the draft narrow um were not and i mean i can have discuss that now or if you'd like i can discuss it further on in the presentation you can discuss it in your presentation um i would i would ask that you send the nap in its complete form to mr vias yes yes i'll i will send all of the information on the net to dr vice and anyone else who would like it thank you you're welcome back to you counselor borrego any other questions the next speaker please our next speaker is patricia wilson miss wilson please feel free to turn your video on unreach yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking madam chair counselors thank you for the opportunity to speak most people have no idea what the acronyms narrow and ideo mean or how they relate to each other of course the narrow needs to be revised and adopted otherwise there continues to be this circular confusion of one ordinance defining something in another ordinance that has been repealed and replaced by something that references the original ordinance what i do know is that over a quarter of the recognized neighborhood associations in the city have written letters either individually or through their coalitions to express their concerns about the current draft of the narrow and many have provided specific suggestions several dedicated neighbors have questioned the two points of contact requirement in the ido while we appreciate the adding of recognition for coalitions it does need to be expanded now as miss morris just mentioned that's better addressed in the next ido amendment cycle when neighbors have the opportunity to attend a facilitated meeting and communicate with the applicant there are often concessions and compromises that benefit everyone as council president borrego said in an editorial almost three years ago quote we must strike a balanced approach this allows for development to occur though not at the stake of losing what attracts us all to albuquerque in the first place thank you all for deferring this from the last committee meeting and i urge you to incorporate the input you've received prior to sending it back to full council and i look forward to hearing about the amendments that miss baca referenced thank you so much thank you miss wilson um madam chair can i ask wilson represents uh yes ma'am um i am currently the president of the victory hills neighborhood association i serve as the treasurer on the uh district six coalition i've been a homeowner and a rental property owner in the southeast heights for 45 years thank you man thank you thank you miss wilson thank you councillor borrego with no other scene no other questions we'll go to the next speaker please next speaker is debbie conger miss conger please feel free turn your video on unmute yourself time will begin when you start speaking madam chair and counselors good evening i'm speaking as a resident of the city living in the south also neighborhood where i've lived for 40 years in his past and proposed form naro gives recognized neighborhood association something that is not available to any other group of persons notifications is spelled out in ido table 6-1 there are nine different categories for which notifications are required ranging from walls and fences to master development plans as it stands now these notifications are limited to two recognized neighborhood association points of contact the whereas clause on page two of the proposed narrow in stating the purpose of this ordinance also says while not limiting opportunities for any other person or non-recognized groups limiting the distribution of these notifications does limit opportunities for other persons and non-recognized groups all neighborhood associations are run by volunteers some better than others due to factors such as few members lack of resources or abilities and differing motives i've encountered associations that are not familiar with their own bylaws have never heard of naro and do not understand the importance of the notifications they get and so just ignore them others may care but have limited bandwidth due to full-time jobs or other personal demands on their time therefore it is imperative that a change be made in the ido and a narrow that would expand the ability to get notices to any resident who wants them any resident whether they live in an area represented by an association or that lacks an association i sent specific comments on this ordinance monday night to you all as to how i think this can be done this is 2021 soon to be 2022 there is no reason this cannot be accomplished by an opt-in listserv the technology exists please ensure o2171 allows this to happen and i would like to make a comment on what uh miss moore said about the ido being the better place to do this oh 2171 section three and four actually amends causes in the ido and removes non-recognizes uh unrecognized association okay thank you ma'am thank you ms conger counselor benton thank you ben chair i'd like to at least uh as miss conger to uh complete her second point uh that she was or the one she was talking about as uh as her time expired thank you so this oh 2171 sections three and four actually amend the definition of neighborhood association that is in the ido it removes non-recognized associations and it which is not clear the way it's written because there's not a red line and it adds coalitions so my point is if o2171 can be used to amend the ido in this way it can also be used to amend the ido to allow this opt-in list serve for other people that's my did that answer your question yes thank you miss conger and madam chair thank you for in your indulgence um and i just wanted to thank miss conger because she submitted you know a lot of very specific uh thoughts as opposed to just telling us to stop the presses and stop everything i really appreciated that and we are trying to incorporate numerous uh we actually are going to be incorporating if we pass the amendment uh this evening uh numerous of the points and and we'll get into the details of that so thank you miss conger thank you ben thank you miss connor you're welcome um are you seeing no other questions uh next speaker please our next speaker is richard pena mr pena please feel free to enter your video on how to meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking thank you so much i'm reading from a prepared statement i i wrote so bear with me but the counselors my name is richard pena and i'm president of taylor ranch and council district number five so i'm speaking this evening in support of the updated narrow uh though i'm not heavily involved in my own association i follow the activities and actions of the association as well as a west side coalition and i think the updated narrow was a step in the right direction i appreciate the fact that membership and voting will no longer be predicated on someone's ability to pay dues i also appreciate the consistency and recognition standards of all that for all the associations which is something that was really lacking in the current narrow but most importantly i appreciate the democratic concepts that have informed the revised legislation because neighborhood associations should be open to everyone and anyone who wants to be part of them oftentimes expressing a different opinion or idea to an established neighborhood association or to a coalition can be problematic if there are the same members who attempt to exclude others and i see this revised narrow as a very positive attempt to increase diversity in neighborhood associations citywide i also appreciate the fact that the city spent over two years getting resident and neighborhood feedback in order to revise this legislation and having that input was directly impactful on how this updated legislation was written land use and development are important topics to neighborhoods but they're not the only subjects of interest all associations many neighborhoods and many individual residents like myself are also interested in neighborhood safety economic growth and working cohesively to make our neighborhoods functional beautiful healthy and this updated this updated ordinance takes us in those directions so i respectfully ask that this committee and the city council as a whole passed this ordinance in a tummy fashion thank you thank you mr pena i see no other question so thank you mr penny thanks for joining us our next speaker is jane beckel miss michael please feel free turn the video on and meet yourself and your time will begin when he starts speaking madam chair and counselors my name's jane beckley and i'm the president of santa fe village neighborhood association the text of the written comments i submitted earlier today and the points i now make were reviewed by email with santa fe village neighborhood association board members five indicated agreement with these two provided no response and also no objections i want to highlight two of four specific santa fe village neighborhood concerns related to the proposed narrow concerns which we believe jeopardize the viability of santa fe neighborhood association are maintenance of recognized status and our opportunity to effectively represent the interest of santa fe village first the narrow provision which requires affirmation of joining the neighborhood association to be considered a member effectively narrows the definition of membership for santa fe village neighborhood association poses an obstacle to us to resident engagement and burden santa fe village neighborhood association with recording tracking and maintaining documentation of this requirement um the anticipated negative impact of requiring residents to provide some affirmation no matter how liberally we define that of their intent to join the neighborhood association which we can both record and have available to document is based on feedback from current residents and our observations of how we already struggle to engage current residents secondly we reiterate our position that given the very limited time allotted for public comment which is 90 to 120 seconds the requirement that a neighborhood spokesperson use a portion of that limited time to outline how a neighborhood position was reached subtracts from the time available to comment on the substance of the neighborhood position that this is that this is part of the existing narrow does not change the effect of this provision if it is deemed necessary to assure that a spokesperson truly represents a neighborhood association either additional time for public comment your time is up thank you thank you ma'am councillor benjamin you have a question yes thanks uh yeah just a uh um a point uh i would hope or maybe staff can help with this but my understanding is that that language has to do with formal positions taken and not that that that uh that just as miss bakely is speaking today that she's not if this were in place she would not be required to to state that however if she's my understanding is that if it's in a formal proceeding of of the city in terms of a land use decision or anything of that sort and then in that situation yes the chair of such a body would uh would would certainly be within their uh rights to ask how a position was taken and i think that's the intention and and um i would ask staff i know that we might be within the amendment are we tweaking that language at all i understand how it might be confusing but um but i i just want to say that that was absolutely never the intent that uh again when a formal position is taken in in a matter that uh that is receiving input from a recognized neighborhood association with standing on land use matters i think that was what it was most intended for but uh you know when when someone asked about it that was my understanding but could staff help out with that madam chair counselor benson uh your description of this is is accurate um the language that is in the narrow has not changed from the start from the existing narrative um and your description of how that language is is used is also accurate it's mostly used at uh land use decision boards so the zhe the drb and the epc and it's used prior to the clock starting and so for example if a member of a neighborhood association association gets up to speed the chair will ask them are they representing themselves or a neighborhood association and they say a neighborhood association and uh usually at epc they get granted extra time for that and the chair will then ask uh your position how did you the what neighborhood association you're representing how they might have come to any decisions and then after that the clock begins and they're uh able to give their public comment so this doesn't affect the amount of time that a person is allowed allotted in those land use situations if i may manage here so yeah that's been my experience that that the full statement is is given and then if a member of one of these bodies or the chair uh chose to they could say well how was that i think that's all this is intended to say but um but maybe we need to clarify more thank you counselor uh staff do you have any other comments or counselor ben any other questions okay let's move on to our next speaker thank you madam chair our next speaker is peggy net miss sniff please feel free to enter a video on and meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking good afternoon counselors public i keep my video dark to represent the members of the public who are restricted from getting into this meeting you have my written comments i'll be reading them first again respectfully i need to ask counselor benton counselor gibson and counselor jones to recuse themselves from discussions on o2171 the narrow to support this i ask attorney malendras to explain the concept of clean hands doctrine as it applies to the legalities involved in the current widespread public perception that this legislation may have more to do with developers interests than in providing a clear comprehensive and fair neighborhood association recognition ordinance second for the record this week a formal complaint was filed at the state of new mexico's attorney general's office asking for injunctive relief regarding 0.2171 it is based on the fact that true and comprehensive data is not available for the public regarding the creation of this ordinance it is unclear how the flawed selective and exclusive neighborhood engagement processes reports led to this draft and it is unclear how this draft has become legislation draft as neighborhood leaders were not involved furthermore it would be very hard to show that these two lups meetings were qualified as providing public meetings and administrative tests that is as big as crafting a comprehensive citywide narrow regarding the ido i have been asking for amendments to the notification process for three years miss morris miss schultz counselor winter council bassan nor the planning staff have addressed these requests in addition to this i believe that the ideo needs to be amended to address how neighborhoods are involved in the amendment process itself for three years i've been asking for this and to be part of the amendment process without any support from council members nor council staff or the planning department i'm asking you to step back reconsider and begin anew use this draft or don't but host public meetings address public comment write clear comprehensive and a fair ordinance that allows both for alliances and disagreements within neighborhoods one of one that encourages and builds on what we have now sniff your time is up thank you and councillor benjamin you have a question i have a statement chair thank you uh the implication of ms neff is that uh three of the four counselors that are attending this meeting are somehow uh in the pocket of private interest and that that's the motivation of this uh this ordinance i just want to say that that i have been on the council i think i'm on my 16th year right now a lot of people would say i shouldn't be here anymore but nonetheless during those 16 years i have never made a single decision in the interest of myself or any private interest i i have only and categorically only uh made decisions and conducted myself from what i saw as the best interests of my district and of the city i'd like mr uh melendrez perhaps to address this business recusal and what are the uh what are the legal requirements of recusal thank you councilman uh mr melendez thank you madam chair i'm having a technical issue that won't permit me to turn on my camera at the moment but i'm happy to take the question so um the city council i think as council benton eluded is subject to limitations within the city charter that would guide when it is appropriate or when it is not to recuse yourselves in certain matters this legislation being a general legislative matter the refusal standard would be if there is a direct financial interest in the outcome of the of the bill um in an interest that exceeds the general interest that might be advanced or that is being impacted by the legislation and so when analyzing this type of question um you you essentially look at you know what the nature of the bill is and what the nature of the potential outcomes are and it's hard to envision with respect to the narrow um any type of uh basis for recusal of of a counselor based on anything that would be required in the charter as far as far as a financial interest so that does not appear to be an issue with respect to your deliberation of this bill thank you mr melendez are there any other questions from the counselors thank you we'll move on to the next speaker now why you should recuse yourself next speaker is need a day this day please feel free to turn the video on and meet yourself your time will begin when you start speaking good evening madam chairwoman um commissioners i would like to start with a couple different points probably about five at most um first i represent the taylor ranch neighborhood neighborhood association and we did send in some written comments via a letter both to your guys's emails as well as electronically and so my comments will be short but they are to emphasize the concerns that the taylor ranch neighborhood association has first is that we agree there should be an opt-in position we have heard before that not all neighborhood associations don't represent all individuals and we agree with that there's there are individuals who may have a different opinion and we respect that and we respect the democratic process however stamping out those voices and just saying they can't get noticed because there's no uh mechanism for them to get notice is not appropriate and it interferes with the democratic process so there should be an opt-in provision for individuals to receive notice whether or not they're with the neighborhood association the second issue is of the boundaries i did address this in my letter but overlapping boundaries is not an issue trna has many neighborhood associations within its own neighborhood association as well as hoa and coalitions as you're aware we're one of the biggest neighborhood associations in the state of new mexico we will fully comply with the new revised narrow should it pass however many neighborhood associations are very concerned that they will not be able to meet your guys's expectations to become recognized neighborhood associations that is concerning um the boundaries when we have a neighborhood association who comes to trna and says we are in your boundaries all that does is promote more compromise and more collaboration between communities these are our neighbors we are trying to make sure that we have shared common public interests but yet not all the specific needs can be addressed through one neighborhood association as mr pena pointed out um thank you and counselor benjamin uh do you have a question madam chair um so the question of uh of other associations or people within a recognized neighborhood association and not having oh is it overlapping boundaries only applicable to recognized and when we're talking about recognized here anyone who's listening who doesn't realize this this only has to do with the the unique standing provided to recognize neighborhood associations and zoning and language matters um is isn't that all we're talking about there's no there's no limitation on freedom of association of anyone and of course neighborhoods who do share interests recognized and not recognized can be members of coalitions that they wish and can communicate freely as they wish doesn't this only have to do with their standing i guess i would ask that if staff perhaps mr melendres or ms morris who would like to answer that question miss morris adam check count uh counselors um yes as councillor benton discussed uh the standards that we're requiring for the neighborhood recognize neighborhood association status and the recognized neighborhood coalition status is applicable to ido notice if a neighborhood association doesn't want to meet those uh requirements they they can still form um however they just wouldn't get the notice and the appeal standing that is granted via the ido and that is also how the ideo operates today uh you have to be either a recognized neighborhood association or a registered neighborhood association and with the interim guidelines in place you cannot have overlapping boundaries uh to be in either of those two categories thank you miss morris and madam madam sheriff yes councillor i mean the idea that um all individuals and anyone and everyone uh would receive these formal notices is that uh doesn't that present some serious obstacles it's not just a matter of having a list serve i mean what it what if you create a list serve and uh you know someone is left off and and then we've created an expectation that everyone and anyone did not who might have wanted to know did not receive a personal notice madam chair counselor benson um that uh idea of an alyssa as i talked about a little bit earlier is really more a larger systemic change um and is is is something that um would require a vision that was truck um [Laughter] uh the revolution to the ideo um there are some significant uh things that would need to be thought through for some sort of opt-in system and i think that is something that um we would need to think about outside of the narrow process in terms of the logistics of it the policies of it and and putting that into the ideo thank you did i answer all the i'm not sure if i answered all of your questions there thank you i don't see any other questions but uh counselor borrego you've had your hand up before thank you madam chair um good afternoon uh miss day thank you for joining us this afternoon um my question is regarding the overlapping boundaries um and you said that there are many neighborhoods that are concerned that they can't meet you know the requirements of the i mean that's specifically what you said that can't meet the requirements of the uh neighborhood uh so um well i'm sorry naro um can you tell me can you elaborate a little bit more on that on what exactly you're talking about and what you mean by that um um counselor brego yes i can thank you for the opportunity to do so um what i meant is more that many neighborhood associations strive just to get people involved and a lot of the neighborhood associations because it's a volunteer driven organization many there have been neighborhood associations that we are aware of that have went defunct because they cannot find the manpower behind them to do the neighborhood association and so with when there is the overlapping boundaries and there is kind of even dispute within the neighborhood when i say the neighborhood i'm talking about trna specifically it is incumbent that i think the trna board really take an opportunity to use that to try to really understand what that other neighborhood's concerns are and we think maybe it might mean stepping back and rethinking our own position to be coming to become more collaborative to be more um understanding of what their needs are that's not to say that there might not be disagreements between trna and maybe another neighborhood even within its own boundaries but that disagreement is a healthy democratic process and we still recognize neighbors neighbors neighborhood associations within our boundary as our neighbors that we have a collective interest in promoting the health safety and general welfare of the west side and with that collective interest those overlapping boundaries uh i i think are critical it helps to build community across it helps expand community across community and not everything that trna gets legal notice about trna is going to be able or willing simply manpower alone or even maybe a board decision to appeal but maybe it really means a lot to another neighborhood association that's directly impacted and they should have that legal standing and ability to appeal regardless of trna so let me let me reiterate what i think i hear you saying um and you tell me if i'm incorrect but i guess when you have overlapping boundaries and you have neighborhoods that are overlapping sometimes a neighborhood that may not be as maybe a little more fragile would have that support that you're you know whatever that support is um be it number be it um you know uh people participating i mean uh you know the work distribute distribution um so you're saying that that is actually helpful to supporting our neighborhoods right is that what i'm hearing with that statement absolutely that overlapping boundaries are not necessarily for new neighborhoods to come in and form and overlap with boundaries of existing neighborhoods is not a problem i don't believe so i think it's healthy to the we as the boar believe it's healthy to the democratic processes thank you so much thank you council royco um councillor gibson thank you madam chair so i find that really complicated uh and uh so let me just try to see if i can organize my thoughts well enough to to make my point here um so if i'm in a neighborhood association i live in jerry cline park neighborhood association and we are sort of adjacent to what uh um another one i can't think of the name of it right now so if i'm right on the edge uh and and uh and let's say let's say now we decide that my block is going to be wants to be represented by the other neighborhood association as well as my own mark twain is the other one uh that seems like it's going to be really rather complicated rather than i guess a more simple way of of uh maybe handling whatever issues that i might have on the first block inside uh my jerry cline park neighborhood so if i need help that i think that the people across louisiana probably experience that i experience rather than just for the two neighborhood associations to um sort of collaborate or maybe just myself with them collaborating i don't think i don't see how actually having membership in two different neighborhood associations really furthers uh the causes of trying to make improvements thank you counselor gibson were you were you looking for an answer on that or or not really it's just a it's just a a thought that that came up i didn't think about this at all but i i think it's an interesting topic and i just wanted to register thank you councillor gibson and councillor brego you would like to have the floor again i would i would thank you um and i would just say that i do not i do not agree counselor gibson i think that this is very a way to build um collaboration when you have i mean i sit here and i'm looking outside of my my neighborhood and i'm thinking you know when you have joint boundaries that are dealing with a similar issue and i'm going to give you an example i mean i have a neighborhood right across the street from me that and we're dealing with issues regarding um uh street you know speeding for example um i mean i think that actually when you have those really hard boundaries sometimes it becomes very divisive and when you have some of those gray areas where i mean i think of a venn diagram if anybody remembers what that is you know there are areas that in the venn diagram that actually where you build that collaboration and you build that um community so i i respectfully counselor gibson i just kind of have to disagree with that statement thank you councillor borrego councillor gibson you'd like to respond and then staff would like to comment on this councilor gibson right and just just really really quickly i think all of that can happen without being a member of two different associations it i i don't think that that that um that is a good argument that collaboration is a good argument we can't collaborate to the best of our ability unless we can belong to two different uh neighborhood associations uh because i see it in my own district uh just you know literally a couple of blocks away um neighborhood associations you know getting together and and tackling issues and taking care of the best the best that they can so i think it's kind of a weak argument thank you though thank you councillor gibson and uh miss baca you would like to make some comments on these discussions madam chair yes i would uh like be happy to address ms day's uh concerns and comments about overlapping boundaries i um i agree that having overlapping boundaries can be a beneficial thing in the sense of collaborating with neighborhoods with the overlapping boundaries however it's presented as much a problem with other neighborhood associations throughout the city which is one of the reasons we decided to address it specifically in this updated narrow i do also want to make the point that no neighborhood association that currently has um overlapping boundaries now is going to lose their recognized status uh once the narrow once this updated narrow is passed so just make sure that everybody understands that there will not be any kind of penalty for current neighborhood association that do have those overlapping boundaries but there have been several cases of other neighborhood associations that have had significant conflicts that have caused significant issues within their neighborhoods and among their membership because of the overlapping issue excuse me overlapping boundary issues and that is the key reason why it was uh decided to include that section in this updated draft thank you miss baca uh councillor borrego you have another question i know that's the best part i'm sorry i'm i'm muted and i'm talking to myself so i'm asking uh miss baca if she could just send me specific instances where those issues have occurred if she would i'd like to see that i'd like specific examples counselor boy i'd be happy to send this to you and by the way the link one of the links you sent me today didn't work so i just wanted i'll make sure you can follow up on that apologies thank you councillor virgo thank you miss baca our next speaker please next speaker is greg weirs mr weirs please feel free turn your video on unmute yourself and your time will begin we start speaking madam chair and counselors the nob hill neighborhood association has sent comments on the narrow to all city councillors and i have submitted them also in this meeting's written comments and i'm not going to go through each one of them but my comments will reflect those of the nob hill neighborhood associations so the present naro has its shortcomings but the proposed legislation does not address them in our opinion instead the proposed narrow adds more recognition requirements for reporting and compliance which had overhead costs and by that mostly i mean volunteer time but we do not see any tangible benefits from those additional costs and while these new requirements we believe are well intentioned they are we in our opinion unlikely to prevent the abuses of problematic associations neighborhood associations so perhaps some of the changes are simply not worded clearly and can be addressed but this points out the shortcomings of the process it was used to develop the legislation the section on recognizing neighborhood coalitions has not been thought through by the authors in our opinion requiring coalition membership to allow individual residents and business owners is intended to give them access to notifications where there's no existing association for their geographic area but how are coalitions supposed to have an orderly and democratic process when an individual's vote counts as much as an association that represents usually tens to hundreds of individuals madam sharing counselors by passing this legislation now we think you are missing an opportunity to greatly improve the narrow and the general health and effectiveness of neighborhood associations and if you insist on moving forward with this legislation then please at least delay it until the community concerns and negative impacts can be addressed thank you thank you sir oh let's go to the next speaker please our next speaker is renee horvath ms horvath please feel free to enter a video on one meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking good afternoon um can everybody hear me can you hear me yes ma'am okay okay thank you uh yeah thank you and uh i just want to um apprec i do appreciate that we had a deferral because our neighborhood association did need to talk about some of the changes in this new one and one of them was the membership dues not being a requirement for vote voting and membership and that does go conflict with our bylaws and we needed to talk about it we do understand the hardship uh i you know concerns but it is i agree with the first um speaker that you know we need to function we do communicate with our members with flyers mailings website updates sign maintenance so we do need the membership dues and i think we could come up with some language that everybody could agree with but i i think the membership dues is pretty important uh secondly um uh yes we do have overlapping boundaries but it really hasn't been a problem we have a lot of hoas we have neighborhood associations within our boundaries a lot of them focus on their more internal uh issues and hoas focus a lot on landscape issues and i just wanna and we really haven't had a problem taylor ranch has we focus a lot on sensitive development because we've got a lot of open space sensitive areas with the river and the petroglyphs so we do promote you know stay on top of trying to get really good designs and sensitive designs around those areas uh and i just want to point out that there was two examples of notification i do send notification to some of the people on top of the mesa because they haven't been able to form a neighborhood association the one i talked about last time um i sent him a notice a year ago i said you're going to get 52 unit townhouse complex and there's a hearing coming up he said thanks very much uh but onc can't finalize my association request but don't but the developers can i finish i have two examples thank you ms horvath go ahead and let's try to limit the questions on this one council borrego since we're giving her more time so he he was having troubles i was just asking for extension thank you oh thank you uh yeah so he was having troubles to form a neighborhood association because of the moratorium he says well then i'll have to send another letter to the mayor ultimately yes he did form a neighborhood association but i know there's other people that are having problems getting notified and so if i know about them i'll send them a notice but it would be helpful if they could request from onc to be notified because they're getting a lot of development that impact them and the second point with hoas there was a case over here where these people were being a four-story apartment complex right behind their homes and their hoa says we don't deal with land use so they were not involved in the ideal process and then they were surprised they were getting this four story right behind their home and it's created a lot of problems so hoas don't really notify on land use issues so we need to be aware of that so yes argument about notification maybe we should allow red people who say hey i know i'm interested in what's going on i'd like to be notified whether you're recognized or not so you may want to consider that thank you ms horvath we appreciate your comments um staff has some questions or comments on this please madam chair yes i'd be happy to address some of ms horvath's comments the issue that she raised in terms of the moratorium there's not actually a moratorium in place on neighborhood associations forming there never has been a moratorium there are something called interim guidelines which do limit the formation of new neighborhood associations in the event there are overlapping boundaries um i believe ms horvath is referring to the vista del prado neighborhood association which was formed in council district 5. i want to say in 2019 and for that specific reason they did not have overlapping boundaries and they were furthermore in an area where they had absolutely no other neighborhood associations in proximity to them so they were allowed to form uh that was prior to me being the manager so i'm not aware of the issues that ms farbath is alluding to in terms of contacting the mayor's office but yes they were they they did form a new neighborhood association and they do receive notification to my knowledge of anytime that there is a public notice inquiry that involves their neighborhood association they they should be receiving it their their contact information is sent to the developers um there was i'm sorry was the other part of her question i'm sorry ms harvath um oh yeah so i just want to say it was not easy for him to get to form a neighborhood association and he had a lot of frustration i saw his emails there's a lot of frustration so i just want to share that with everybody so they're aware and the other thing some some of them say we don't deal with land use and so those people don't get notified and then they're surprised whoa where did this come from so you need to be thank you ms horvath uh thank you we appreciate your comments uh councillor borrego you have a question thank you madam chair i do have a question uh vanessa for the miss baca so the interim guidelines how long are those in place for they were enact they were enacted in october 2017 and they will be in place through december 2021 or until such time as the narrow is passed whichever comes first thank you you're welcome thank you councillor borrego thank you counselors our next speaker is miss ward miss ward please feel free turn your video on unmute yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking madam chair based on onc responses to neighborhood concerns regarding the proposed narrow it seems clear that those in city government who are proponents of this legislation continue to continue to either misunderstand or dismiss the fundamental issue of intrusion out of one side of the collected mouth of proponents come inconsistent edicts about membership of private and voluntary organizations while the other side spouts deflections and evasions that are the declarations that the onc does not enforce bylaws of neighborhood associations some of the responses reflect neither the actions of the onc nor previously codified requirements here's one example on page one of the matrix distributed by the o and c the following statement occurs the current narrow requires neighborhoods to provide annual meeting minutes as a means of confirming democratic voting processes have been adhered to and this has been carried over into the proposed narrow please provide that language my review of subsection 14824 criteria for recognition of neighborhood associations of the code of ordinances did not reveal that requirement further from at least as far back as 2013 the annual report notice from the onc at no time indicated the need to supply minutes from the annual meeting because it was not required prior to the adoption of the ido notification requirements regarding developments were to be made within the applicable notification distance to any neighborhood association which has filed its articles of incorporation bylaws or other document indicating its existence which includes key contact people organizational structure current boundaries and preferred mailing address with the office of the neighborhood coordination it appears the single purpose of this mini tentacled proposed narrow to be to strangle the voice of neighborhoods please vote against its passage thank you thank you miss ward for your comments um staff would you like to address any of the questions that might have arisen or the comments um no we don't that is the last of our speakers this evening we have two more okay we didn't put them on my list we have two more speakers uh thank you madam chair uh mr reagan can you hear hear me are you there and mr barry sullivans as well can you hear me and are you there [Music] dan rican is here thank you sir mary sullins is here too great thank you if you guys would like to turn on your video you can accept the invitation to become a panelist if not mr regan once you start speaking uh your time will begin i don't have a question barry sullins uh mr sullins uh let's do uh mr regan first and then we'll go to you for comments um mr regan please feel free to meet yourself or to turn on your video and your time will begin when you start speaking i have a question i'm dan reagan am i supposed to go first yes sir good evening mr regan good evening madam chair and lups members i'm very concerned about the possible path this current version of the new narrow could take before the full council votes on it based on a response i received from onc this past friday there are some anticipated amendments that could be made to the narrow version currently under consideration they've been mentioned some of them have been mentioned tonight if those anticipated amendments occur will they be shared with the residential community organizations and the public well before any meeting at which the lups would vote on the fate of the narrow if the new revision of the narrow is not given to n a's coalitions and general public for comment prior to the lups meeting which vote to monero then the bill's sponsor will be in with the compliance of and consent of the other lup members will hide once more behind procedural measures that high taxpayers place in a piece of legislation that defines into the next several decades who the taxpayers and private property owners will be in the eyes of the city council when it comes to zoning i do not know if any of you have given serious thoughts to how demeaning insulting and damaging that process would be to the folks you're supposed to be serving and if the council accepts the narrow from the lups without community input being allowed to any anticipated amendments and proceed these two narrow then they too will have bought into a sham process and product that tells albuquerque taxpayers that they simply don't count and don't matter because you all know better what we need that's one heck of a way to treat folks who elected you and for some of you we'll be going back to the polls in less than three months to vote again thank you for your attention to my comments thank you mr regan councillor benjamin why yeah the amendment that's uh before us tonight of course uh is in the public record already it's a proposed amendment hasn't been voted upon however uh that amendment is in response to comments from many of the folks who spoke here tonight you know mr mr reagan didn't provide any constructive comments there's this sort of look uh i'm not addressing you sir i'm addressing the uh the committee uh mr regan uh since he spoke about me specifically uh you know i have always been open i've been in meetings with mr regan and mr baez and others [Music] i have been an open book as far as what we've been doing we put out a a version of of this bill early in the year we've it's been hashed over the procedures of the city council are not such that any time an amendment is proposed it's going to be put out and uh debated amongst the public prior to it going to a committee this committee is not passing anything tonight for just for the sake of i think the previous speaker that was mentioning that we were going to pass something tonight or someone did uh you know this is a recommending body to the city council on the city council we finally decide to finally decide uh what is in the bill and whether it passes or fails so um you know just to be very clear the amendment that we're in this we're going to be discussing later and we haven't even gotten to it but uh that amendment is in response to uh public comment and constructive public comment as opposed to people just telling us to stop what we're doing thank you councillor benton and i believe we have one more speaker thank you madam chair uh mr slowlins you can go ahead and unmute yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking this is barry sullins and i don't have a comment oh you don't want to provide any comments sir no sir okay thank you uh madam chair that'll conclude public comments thank you ladies and gentlemen thank you counselors for participating let's move right along with the agenda madam chair yes councillor borrego i was just notified that michael brasher is waiting to speak i'm sorry council borrego he was never registered and he is not signed up on our list but we appreciate his uh maybe he'll come through the next time thank you councillor borrego [Music] let's go on to agenda item a 071 councillor benton would you like to introduce us thank you madam uh chair uh 071 is repealing the neighborhood association recognition ordinance section 1418-2 and replacing it with a revised neighborhood association recognition ordinance and prescribing responsibilities and services offered by the onc and making revisions to the integrated development ordinance related to neighborhood association notice i move the duke pass uh councillor gibson has seconded that uh so let's move on to the um uh presentation madam chair members of the leps committee thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak i'll be giving you an overview of the process we engaged in when we started uh updating the neighborhood association record ordinance i'll give an overview of the neighborhood engagement process and i will bring us to where we are today so with your permission i will get started so in october 2017 the city council announced their intent to address the shortcomings in the current neighborhood association recognition ordinance or the narrow as as it is called which was originally passed in 1987 and had been minimally updated in the ensuing years interim guidelines that temporarily restricted the formation of new neighborhood associations whose proposed boundaries would conflict with existing associations were put into place and are still in place as the narrow process continues and as i had detailed earlier between early spring 2018 and fall 2019 independent consultants were contracted to conduct an extensive outreach initiative with city councilors city departments neighborhood associations community groups and individuals not affiliated with a neighborhood association in order to ascertain what changes should be incorporated into the updated narrow and i believe i had gone into detail on this earlier but i'll reiterate that as well this outreach effort was called the neighborhood engagement process or the nat the nep involved contacting 222 neighborhood and homeowner associations via telephone and email with 93 neighborhood association face-to-face choice dialogues 159 flash interviews conducted in english and spanish at four community centers in the city's four quadrants and a variety of surveys one-on-one and group discussions hosted by the nep consultants themselves overall the nep engaged with city councillors other city departments and staff neighborhood association board members and general members homeowner associations neighborhood coalitions and individuals not affiliated with the neighborhood association this outreach was conducted over 22 months total and culminated in the consultants giving an overview to the city council in november 2019 which all the neighborhood associations and coalitions were invited regular updates on the nep were shared with the public through the onc's neighborhood newsletter and weekly e-news as well as the onc's website and social media venues and this information is still available on the onc's website to this day and open to the public as well as the narrow update website on the city council homepage an initial draft of the updated narrow was sent to all neighborhood associations on file with the office of neighborhood coordination or the onc as we call ourselves in january 2021 extensive feedback from neighborhood associations and coalitions was received excuse me sorry i lost my place there we go and the legislation was subsequently revised to incorporate much of this community feedback the revised draft of the narrow was sent to all of the neighborhood associations and coalitions in july 2021 and was introduced at the city council meeting on monday august 2nd excuse me 2021 before being to refer to the land use planning and zoning committee which we are at today councillors and the onc have continued to receive extensive feedback on the upgraded draft narrow and expect to receive more neighborhood commentary as the legislative process continues once the draft narrow goes to the full city council the revised draft narrow contains updated language that more clearly defines the roles and expectations of recognized neighborhood associations and recognized coalitions the onc and other city departments one of the premises behind the revised narrow is that the city is going to recognize an outside group in some way that group should conduct its activities in a fair and democratic way in the case of neighborhood associations fairness can be promoted by outlining minimum democratic processes that can be followed to help promote inclusion and reliable community representation this updated narrow clarifies the standards that neighborhood associations and coalitions will be asked to follow when conducting certain business including elections and voting in addition the revised narrow addresses the following so to become recognized a new neighborhood association or neighborhood coalition must allow any resident or business to become a member that includes people who are renting they must have clearly defined boundaries that do not overlap with any other neighborhood association or coalition they must have bylaws that clearly define the processes by which board members are elected and or replaced and how annual meetings are noticed have two designated points of contact on file with the onc and they must complete the onc's compliance form and submit that to our office to stay recognized a neighborhood association or neighborhood coalition must have an annual meeting and submit an annual report form to the onc they must maintain two designated points of contact with the onc including names addresses telephone numbers and email addresses and to address a question that did come up with one of our neighborhood constituents using a neighborhood association specific address or email is fine people have concerns about using their personal address or telephone number uh they recognize neighborhood associations must have clearly defined democratic processes for holding elections that are spelled out in their bylaws and they must clarify to members that dues are not a prerequisite for either membership or voting so recognition itself means that a neighborhood association or neighborhood coalition has the responsibility of receiving and disseminating developer notifications and permit application information to their members as well as other information of interest or that might benefit or otherwise affect their neighborhoods it's true that other groups and individuals do have access to all of the onc's resources and communications they are not considered recognized however and will not receive developer notifications and permit application notifications city departments other than the onc have the responsibility of notifying recognized neighborhood associations and recognized coalitions of changes in city services major infrastructure projects city street construction or closure filming on city streets and major city development per the ido requirements within a specific radius the onc has the responsibility to maintain recognized neighborhood association and coalition contact information to disseminate this information to permit applicants developers and city departments for notification about city projects and development to offer information assistance and resources for creation and maintenance of recognition status and to provide resources to neighborhood associations coalitions individuals community groups and businesses and i will stand for questions thank you miss baca councillors are there any questions counselor benton just a quick question vanessa um the um some of the the uh requirements that for for uh maintaining recognition um carried over from you know the these aren't aren't newly out of whole plot some of them existed before such as the annual meeting requirement and uh some of that kind of uh just basic reporting correct madam chair councillor benton that is correct uh neighborhood associations have always been required to submit an annual report to our office with uh the specific date of their annual meeting and it is the annual meeting date itself that tells us when their annual report is due in our office that's one of the very clear conditions of recognition that has always been in the narrow and carries over into the updated narrow yes thank you thank you thank you counselor gibson do you have a question yes but it's not really related to the history it's are we specifically talking history here or can i ask i think you can ask a question counselor gibson okay thank you i'm following trying to follow the rules so uh i i printed off several emails that that i received in the past several days and um i think most of this has already been um talked about uh and this one thing maybe not uh so there was someone who wrote uh all of i think all of counselors uh about uh a a problem or or a complaint that they're stating about the restriction of the ability to collect dues and i'm not i it sounds like they might be confused but i don't want to automatically jump to that conclusion is there has there been any talk about um the narrow restricting dues collection the closest thing i can think of is kind of the opposite that they that they can't uh if i'm unable to or refuse to pay my dues i still get to vote councillor gibson are you okay if we address that question to ms baca yes ma'am that's that's who i was thank you miss baca would you like to respond to that question madam chair council gibson yes i'd be happy to so uh yes uh it's correct that we the narrow does not restrict the collection of dues there is nothing in the narrow that says neighborhood associations cannot collect dues just to reiterate that it's membership and voting rights that cannot be based on somebody's ability to pay dues and there's also nothing in the updated narrow that prohibits any type of fundraising that the neighborhood associations and or coalitions can do and in point of fact there are several existing neighborhood associations currently that do not choose charge dues to their their membership and they do utilize other fundraising methods so i just wanted to point that out as well thank you and one follow-up if i may yeah i'm sure yes please i heard early on one of the speakers mentioned insurance they had insurance premiums to pay and i do remember hearing that about about neighborhood associations uh i think it was related to neighborhood signs signage so is that do we have i don't think that's a requirement that city places on on neighborhood associations but uh is that um is that common and even if it's not common why what is the need for insurance i don't know maybe you not even familiar with that but if you are i sure would appreciate it madam chair councilwoman gibson i'll address that question as much as i'm able so the question of providing insurance to neighborhood associations has been asked a few times it's my understanding from city legal that it is in the city cannot provide that in that type of insurance coverage because it would be a violation of the city anti-donation clause uh not being an attorney i can't really speak more specifically to it than that but that's the explanation explanation that was given to me um i believe the question of liability had come up with some neighborhood associations in relation to their neighborhood sign previously so the neighborhood association signs are owned by the city and that signed program is administered by the office of a neighborhood coordination by my office specifically and so the fact that we own those signs means that we maintain the we basically we're responsible for any kind of damage or liability that has incurred as a result of any kind of damage to those signs say somebody hits a sign with their car and is injured the city would maintain that liability it does not fall in the neighborhood associations and so by the same token we take care of the majority of the repairs and the upkeep that those neighborhood signs might require neighborhoods are required to do very minimal types of um not even really upkeep it's like maybe some neighborhood signs for example have what's called a letterboard on the bottom the neighborhoods can go and change the letters out and announce meetings or different events replacing those is the responsibility of the neighborhood association but we do provide the initial set of letters and we we do pay for new neighborhood signs and replacement of damage signs so i hope that addresses at least some of your question well well it does but is there another is there another reason why to your knowledge why neighborhood associations would uh would want to get an insurance policy i see mr melendra's just uh turned his camera on so maybe maybe he would be a good person to ask this i'll give it a shot counselor gibson and madam chair um so there's sort of a long history to this question about insurance and specifically signs um the city used to administer the sign program a little bit differently wherein the sign was actually not owned by the city it was actually donated to the neighborhood association in that instance for a long time we were sort of wrestling with this question of whether or not the neighborhood association should or needed to maintain some level of insurance because of any potential liabilities that may come from that sign i mean uh you know if we have a strong gust of wind or a strong storm and the sign is no longer you know ship shaped sort of to use that term of art um then if somebody is negligent in going out and fixing that then liability could flow the way that that program is now being administered though is as miss baca described where the city actually continues to own that sign and so it really mitigated that particular insurance question beyond that question i mean i think an individual association uh quite frankly depending on their level of concern or or sophistication or resources could address that question for themselves as to whether or not they would like to have the insurance in place to sort of mitigate against some potential risk however just given the function of the associations it's a little bit hard to envision what type of liabilities might actually befall uh neighborhood association as they perform their their functions and as a as a lawyer uh that's that's not the that's a hard thing to say because you always you're always trying to predict you know the unexpected right because that's where liability comes from but you know neighborhood associations don't maintain a premise like a store or or a corporation or business might where liability might result from maintenance of that premise um they're not providing goods or services to the general public you know wherein one of those services might be performed negligently so all those things said a neighborhood association being a relatively informal community group probably doesn't need a big fancy insurance policy for anything um but again you know depending on the level of concern the activities the risk that they are concerned about that is within the decision-making capacity of each association as to how to address that question okay thank you thank you mr melendez are there any other questions um in that case let's go on to some amendments that we see accounts councillor benton would you like to present your amendment first yes ma'am uh chair i'll i will move uh this will be committee amendment number one um uh i think that's correct is that staff could correct me if i'm wrong yes that is correct um and this uh this amendment uh is uh multi-faceted it goes goes through 10 points um and i'll just briefly uh go over what those are as opposed to reading each of these and then um or i guess i defer to steph somewhat but but um let's just go one at the time and then the staff could weigh in but uh on page three insert the following new text on line eight in person in person this is a definition in person meetings and voting may include the use of virtual online meetings in other words uh they don't have to be in person this is acknowledging the reality of uh uh that that you can count as being in person as people are on this call without having to be there physically um and then on page number two is page 4 line 18 revise section 4 as follows i'm going to read the total the complete language and then the underlined uh change this has to do with the boundaries of the association um uh anyway any excuse me it doesn't have to do with the boundaries anyone living within the boundaries who affirmatively join the neighborhood association may be counted as members the bylaws must clearly identify how membership is established dues may be collected however payment of dues could not be a requisite prerequisite of membership or voting rights in the association so again that i think we discussed that at length earlier the third is on page 4 line 23 revised section 5 as follows this has to do with the annual meeting and this eliminates the two weeks in advance it just says that notice must be given or shall be given to the onc of the annual meeting so that they know that it isn't going to occur or that it has occurred so that lnc can uh can then process the renewal of their stat or maintenance of their status uh number four is on page five line 25 insert the following and renumber accordingly and this adds c if a virtual online meeting is used for an in-person vote votes must be recorded via a roll call vote and i'll ask staff to explain uh who would like to explain that for us please madam chair council benson um this this item is in relation to the in-person definition change um the purpose of this is to clarify how voting would occur if the implant occurs on an online video um platform such as zoom or or google uh google meets yes uh and in that instance the voting must be through a roll call so that there's an accurate recording of what that vote would be yeah okay so so when it's when it's just the vote of of uh of those present physically then they can just record a vote what the vote was uh but if it is done uh online then uh sort of the way we do there has to be a a role called vote so so that there's some record created madam chair counselor benson yes that's correct thank you thank you next and we do have this up on the screen uh maybe we could enlarge that a little bit for everyone's convenience i've got mine separately over here uh on page uh 6 line 14 revise section 5 as follows and this was a suggestion many of these are suggestions and have to do with with the comments we received for the public this strikes the words a statement and just says evidence of how the annual meeting was noticed uh pursuant to to the ordinance for example a copy of the flyer that was used so it's just saying uh very simply as opposed to a statement or some some lengthy uh some lengthy description or anything just providing for instance a copy of the flyer or for instance it's not saying this here but for instance a copy of the screen capture of a uh of a digital notice or a photo of a neighborhood sign that has the uh that has the meeting noticed um and that has to do with the annual meeting only to be clear uh not to any other decisions or meetings of the of the organization next is it's on page seven line eleven revise section two as follows membership must be open to all recognized neighborhood associations this has to do with coalition so membership in a coalition must be open to all recognize a recognized coalition to be clear people can form any coalition they want but if the coalition wants to be recognized as we just discussed tonight they must be open to all recognized neighborhood associations neighborhood associations homeowner associations business groups and community groups within its boundaries and may also be available to individual households and property owners within the boundaries of the coalition but who are located outside the boundaries of any recognized neighborhood association so this is making clear that it recognized neighborhood associations uh make up uh and they already had their own requirements of course but they make up many of these coalitions if a coalition's area has uh areas within it as some of them do that don't have any recognized neighborhood association they may choose to have individual members or individual household members they're not required to they may be they may choose to have individual household members uh you know one household one vote not uh a family of of six having six votes um but only if they're outside of a recognized neighborhood association that's part of the coalition so that's the way that uh change reads the other language was already in there next and seven on page seven line 24 revised section four as follows only those association groups persons within the boundaries of the coalition this again under coalitions who've affirmatively joined the coalition may be counted as members uh i think we want to change that household and we've got persons so that is probably i'd ask staff to administratively change that to households because i think that's what our intention is um the bylaws must clearly identify how membership is established dues may be collected again as with neighborhood associations however payment of dues cannot be a prerequisite of membership or voting rights in the coalition um page line 29 insert the following and remember accordingly uh again as with neighborhood associations if a virtual online meeting is used for an in-person vote votes must be recorded via roll call vote number nine page ten line one revised section one as follows by interaction with their members residents in the city the neighborhood association strive to engage with the community and land use planning protect the environment and promote the community welfare that was a recommendation that we received recently and we appreciated that i think you know we're not asking anyone to support uh community land use prep planning proposals but engage with those processes that that's something that um that they should strive to do again nobody's holding a hammer but this is defining one of the important reasons why we have recognized neighborhood associations and then page 10 line 7 revised section 3 as follows use best best efforts to inform members and other eligible participants in their neighborhood association and or coalition boundary of current issues and we struck the words for discussion because that's up to them whether they discuss it or not i will uh just ask staff if if i missed anything or if there are any questions from the committee members thank you staff would you like to add anything anyone on the staff i'm i'm not getting any positive reaction to that uh committee members do you have any questions seeing none councillor benjamin would you like to close on this amendment yes i uh count committee members i i urge you support uh this is you know again as i stated before this in direct response to comments we've received and this is the process you know uh it isn't having a giant meeting with a big long list and people coming up and standing at the mic with your phone it's it's it's you know we have to get to a point where this is the process so i heard your support remember you i need a second on that motion uh councillor gibson uh seconded that so there's a motion in a second on a committee amendment number one uh we'll take a roll call please counselor benton yes councillor porego no counselor gibson yes counselor pena yes councillor jones yes that passes on a 4-1 vote thank you councillors that passed on a 4-1 vote councillor benton do you have another amendment i do not i'm sure i think uh counselor amendments thank you councillor gibson we'll go to you for your amendment then please amendment thank you madam chair this would be amendment 2 to 0 2171 yes thank you i'll go ahead and read the amendment and then the explanation the amendment is to revise the following text in section 14-8-2-4 application and criteria for recognition of neighborhood coalitions and this begins on page 7 line 8. the boundaries were in existence and registered with uh and were striking recognized by and replacing it with registered with the city as of october 20th 2017 and the coalition remains in registered status again we're replacing recognize which is being deleted and replacing with registered the registers data status as of the date this ordinance is enacted the explanation is this amendment revises the text for existing neighborhood coalitions to use the phrase registered rather than recognized as per the current narrow in which coalitions are registered rather than recognized this correction ensures that the existing neighborhood coalitions are grandfathered in under the new narrow all right i'm moving this amendment for approval i'll second that are there any questions counselors comments thank you we'll go for a roll call councillor benton yes yes counselor pena no councillor jones yes that passes on a 3-2 vote all right we now have our third amendment amendment number three from councillor pena i don't have an amendment all right we'll pass on that one then so counselors um counselor oh counselor gibson yes thank you um if if uh i'm a little confused but if it is helpful and uh and it's uh all right with this committee i would like to um sponsor that amendment and this would be amendment number three um which originally had someone else's name on it would you like to give us that uh yes just a second please counselor gibson let me check with this okay counselor gibson um this amendment basically undoes the amendment that you just passed i've been being told so would you like to rescind your offer to sponsor this no i was mistaken a different understanding of this thank you councillor gibson it's a it's one of those evenings i get it so with that counselors um counselor benton would you like to close on your um legislation as amended madam president i just wanted to see if any other members wanted to to comment before um you know i'm going to ask for a vote uh and um uh and move uh this uh i'm gonna change the motion to move it to the to the council without recommendation uh but i wondered if any other counselors wanted to speak at this point before we do that thank you councillor benton counselors does anyone else have a comment or anything before we move on uh councillor borrego yes thank you madam chair um i just wanted to let you all know that um michael brasher did sign up to speak um i received a text from him telling me that he signed up on monday so he was not given his due process so i just wanted you to know that and he said that he did have a record of signing up to speak thank you council borrego i'd like to ask that uh staff looked into that uh certainly thank you councillor benton we'll do that and uh we encourage encourage mr brasher to to uh speak when we get for the full council for sure absolutely yes we will absolutely look into that that's uh very concerning if that occurred and so we are going to get to the bottom of that and make sure to look out for mr brasher at the absolute next opportunity for him to speak and uh i believe uh thank you mr bill anderson madam chair i believe uh if we i had no intention of russian i never have had any intention to rush this bill forward if we go ahead and move this without immediate action and without recommendation when would it be heard when the staff helped me out by the full council madam chair councillor benton it would be reported out at the city council's meeting on september 8th and it would be first considered at the city council's meeting on september 20th okay so just for everyone who's watching um you know there's that's a pretty good long time uh close to a month before council will consider the legislation our ears are still open our doors are still open we're still reading our email well the doors are somewhat figurative these days but so sorry to say everybody please get vaccinated um but uh but yeah so you know we want to continue to receive comment and as with these amendments we put them forward in direct response to concerns brought forward by the public so uh thank you thank you and we appreciate the amount of time that you're going to put into this so we can get as much public comment as possible and you know that's again you know this is the kind of process that makes it very difficult to conduct by uh you know especially during these times you know public meetings that's that's uh pretty hard to pull off counselor benton if if i may before you close before you go to your close may i i would like to take a a question from counselor pena sure just uh it's just for clarification so are you moving a no wreck full council that's that's correct okay great thank you thank you councilor pena all right councillor benjamin sorry i interrupted you so that was my motion i don't know if we need another second since i changed my motion let's do that let's do it formally again let's give the motion and ask for a second so i will move this uh for recommendation and our uh for a no recommendation to the full council and councilor pena seconded that thank you so counselors we have a motion and a second to move this legislation as amended to full counsel uh and we're moving it without recommendation if we take a roll call please if there aren't any other comments seeing no other comments we'll take a roll officer benton yes counselor podego no counselor gibson yes councillor pena yes councillor jones yes and that passes on a 4-1 vote thank you counselors and good evening good conversations and seeing no further business this leps committee meeting is adjourned thank you all thank you you