no I think it's always good to to um introduce ourselves as well as them to us so with that I'm going to call the meeting to order and this is the city work session for uh Minista October 16th uh 2023 first order of businesses I will make introductions I'm Lisa whan I'm the mayor council members present are Kathleen rkin an McGregor Peter vicory K Lacy and then staff pres our director of Public Safety Gary Peters and um Ali pus is our director of administration Works public works oh sorry what did I say I got promoted I guess I've had a long day already I hope it doesn't get worse from here on out wait to you are and then uh our new city clerk and meerhoff and correct I got that right one and then we have jaser kral our city administrator Brian Grim our our um Finance director and then Sarah s Salah with Kennedy and Graven our City attorney so with that we have um five a couple of things uh we have our water fund budget follow-up discussion we'll U be talking about the recycling fund budget and then our cable fund budget and then we're going to do a Clos session so with that I'm going to hand it over to Brian all right thanks mayor and councel so back I think in uh September the one of the meetings then we had looked at the original water fund and we projecting at the time uh you know an 8% increase but we were like well let's see where our Revenue came in for third quarter and we were uh hoping I mean I mean I guess to set the stage yeah the the usage did go down so that's a good that's a good start um probably not as much as we would have thought but you know some of it was um so our overall revenue for third quarter when you compare to year over year I think it was is relatively close but we did have the changes we made to the rates as well as we keep adding properties as well as we did make even the uh change to the commercial rates we Blended the schools into it and I think even um you know the and the schools bill you know we we actually heard from them and they did go up you know by a decent amount based on the uh the for the football or I should say put my daughter plays soccer so I should say soccer field two or whatever but so um for various factors our Revenue pretty much States the same quarter over quarter but I think our usage probably went down 8 10% or so so I think it's at least a start you know was a relatively um you know dry summer obviously still you know the drought severe drought you know different you know areas we sort of went in and out of until uh it finally got Rainier this fall so um but based on that um we did end up probably you having about a $350,000 positive variance to our Revenue you know we were hoping maybe you know the usage would go go down more 20 30% or so and obviously when it didn't um it's guess the only real positive is the additional Revenue but that's obviously based on people's personal choices and what they decide to irrigate and um we can give the guidance and send out the conservation information and do the additional water reads which we did all of that you know this summer and um people can make their best decisions based on the information they received so ultimately I guess now um what we're able to react to then is um I guess from first blush you know after get you know digesting that information I think we can you know back down our our rates um by probably at least a couple percent that increase to you know six you know percent probably that would be similar to what they went up this past year um I know one thing that was talked about that I've looked at preliminarily I guess wanted to get the council's direction first or full Direction I know with the sewer we talked about last time increasing The Connection rates into lower the increase a little bit and whether we want to use that same philosophy here the only um thing that can get a little challenging is all of a sudden if you don't hit 75 connections and you hit 40 or something then there's that component too so um I guess number how many connections would you have to have in order to lower it by a percent I mean we want I mean we based pretty much the the study on averaging 75 connections a year so if we hit that then you can just play with the revenue instead of making the connection to go from 3,300 to 3500 you can maybe go to 3700 and make up you know maybe lower another percent go to 5% or something but if it doesn't hit the 75 but we've hit we've hit more than 75 nine years in a row so I'm not that concerned I mean we've been averaging more like a 100 and we seem to be immune from the interest rates and I don't know how you that's the right term or you know we we've been performing well still even based on what you think other communities are seeing with the housing market so as long as we're confident with that you know that 75 based on that we could you know pretty much make an assumption that um if we wanted to lower we could you know increase those connections and you know what if if at this time next year it isn't we're not at 75 then we can adjust it correct yeah we can basically make midyear adjustments if needed so um so yeah I I would just want to run the numbers and play around and work with the the Creator the study a little bit if you know to be able to um you know say if the council would like to maybe see that number more at four five% or something what does that do long ter like in 2025 and then 2026 because if we're still projecting 14 and 19% in those years I'd rather keep the current ones at six or eight so that it's not 14 and 19 coming up I don't know what it does to the a couple things charges for one I think these numbers the 14 and 19% were based on an $18 million project and I think they've scaled that back now to what 14 million some no these numbers are actually based on I scaled these back already this is based on more 10 to 12 yeah the 18 million would have looked worse or more horrible the other thing we don't know yet um is if we're going to get any money from other sources correct because that hasn't been included or or whatever so that's the other um unknown at this point we hopefully will know next year whether we're going to get any bonding money or and how much it would be if we get any and um there is going to be a bonding year there is going to be a bonding year next year that's what I've been told well it sounds like from Andrew if we get on the bonding tour then we're more likely so if we don't get on the bonding tour we are on the bonding tour we set a date y yeah and in fact oh we shouldn't mention we were going to mention that tonight during announcements but the cat's out of the B it's November 14th um at like 3:30 and he'll send out a um it's Emil so it's not they're not visiting our site we just have time allocated for our project when they're in excels here so yeah so a whole bunch of cities are going to be in excels here and then you'll have like five minutes we'll have like five minutes whatever to do a presentation and then um so we'll want to make some kind of a real good impression a memorable impression um what number is factored in for not having the school district using the water um you know in the next year so oh as far as um if they're doing their own well and oh for that one I think we've already factored that in as basically into the equations or much of a like hit or because I as I understand they're our biggest user they and yes but I think their their um and Gary correct me if I'm wrong their main account is still on I mean for the the fields I mean I know they for their fields and stuff is that still going to be on City water or no like them I think there's only going to be a little bit that's going to be on City Water most it'll be on their own well okay so that will be okay so so they weren't quite on it for this go well the only one I thing that'll be is their practice soccer field across the street I think is going to be on but everything else will be their main football field and all that's all going to be on that well weren't they already switched over for this summer though yeah so this year's numbers were so just the one edition yeah they switched over I think mid mid the late summer they switched over already yeah okay yeah cuz they were using their own well whatever I was emailing you that sprinter's going off okay during the day yeah but they're still using across the street on by the tower over there that's right because they got try to get under the road somehow they haven't figure it out but I think some of that was offset by I know when I talked with Renee one of their accounts last year the bill was 20,000 third quarter this year was 40,000 so I think with you know we obviously adjusted the uh commercial and school here so I think there's some offset I guess from oh wow yeah it's probably the soccer field area that they have over there that is still on our water okay I knew that the school itself is on the on our water yeah everything on would be it's just the side of there is yeah you have all the build the whole school and buildings yes they're all still on but it's just irrigation isn't okay yeah except for the north side is all on ours yet yeah so if anything it might be more of a wash cuz I think when we looked at it last year I think the total School accounts were like 50,000 and I know the one bill they got was almost double this year so it'll probably be not too big a factor one way or another so might be concerned uh well about two things one is if we do a real modest increase this this coming year that then you we're going to have this radical jump I mean we know we're going to be spending more in say 2025 26 um and also Al kind of trying to modify behavior um you I mean we've got a good start but I I think you know if we raise the rates more on an even Keel over like next year so say it's in that six or 8% or maybe higher range that'll keep people thinking about hey I got to you know watch this and not spend as or use as much water so well there is yeah definitely some Merit to that argument because then hopefully if even even if there is additional that there is this year then maybe next year's you know and a2s is going to talk about the water timeline and because that's going to obviously play a factor when we have to bond and all that or what what financing sources we have and and all that but I mean if if we have additional Revenue then maybe the 14 becomes hopefully 10 or TW you know or nine or 10 or 12 or something so there is I mean I mean I think most there's still a lot of stuff up in a that's the thing kind of so there's a couple different ways on us to look at it I guess right even if say we're lucky we got some of the bonding I don't think it's going to cover everything no it won't cover so we could always say back off on the increases later if uh say we do get the some support from the state um well into that point like what is the ultimate I guess user charges goals that we want do we want to have 2 million each year like what what what is the goal number that we want oh as far yeah like the what Revenue amount we want to I mean get to I mean you can see but you know obviously we keep adding projected connections so you know we yeah we hit you 2025 2026 somewhere in that period we hit the you know the2 million dollar Mark um and then we but then our our debt service and some of those you know out years goes up um you know more so we got to cover um some of those type items so that's the hard part is you know obviously we have more Revenue but we have more potential Debt Service so I mean if we I don't I don't know if Jasper asked if you have your um excel culator in there if you if we only do like 5% this year what does that mean towards getting to the the necessary amounts in the future like are we going to just have to do bigger instead of doing like let's say 7% this year and then if we do get money then we can just do another 7% increase versus the 14 or whatever so in my opinion since I'm on the water I would see a a more level than a you know lowering it next year and then jump being even more next year if we don't get the grant money sure yeah I really don't want to do a 19% increase one year i' rather do seven for three years in a row or you know stay for it more that way but it could rain a lot it could and then and I'd rather pay less I mean money in your pocket is better than not well that's one thing yeah thing we really haven't discussed I mean I think some of the years I mean if we all a sudden get a rainy summer these Revenue numbers could be cut by 30% yeah already I mean so it could be back down to 1.2 versus 1.6 1.8 or something so we know we'll need the money in the next couple years I don't I think anywhere between a six and 8% most people understand what the uh infrastructure improvements we've made already and have to do in the future I think it's been pretty publicized that we have another water treatment plant coming down the road and stuff so I mean okay is that it also seems like we should look at connection fees so maybe because I mean that's driving the demand for water and so for INF more of the burden should should be on con yeah new maybe a s% for the or six seven for the I don't 7% 7% and then look at maybe still raising the um connection like 3500 but maybe go from 3,300 to like 3700 or something or does that sound good to do that yeah I don't think a one-time connection fee of even if it's 37 versus 32 or 33 is going to make a big difference when you're buying a house a few hundred dollars I mean yeah no I mean that's just obviously part of the permit and everything so but we will have to talk about um the apartment building with the connection fees all of the homes are they the Woodland C homes are they locked into the old rate or are they the new rate so there is um and yeah David and Nick would know that better but I think there's certain phases were locked in but anything new the newer ones have to pay the like you know the 3700 whatever we set but I don't know if it was and some of those got to almost be built out I mean I think was it fourth was the last four one through four I think were I think the rest of them now are on the newer plan we got to be where almost all of them are paying the the yeah it would be pretty hard to hold us to a 10 I mean that was approved back in 2011 or 2012 now we were talking really many Lots left in one through four is is there any no no okay no so so I think that's mainly been okay okay a moot point now or whatever so and then yeah to the mayor's point I think we'll bring that back to a future I mean I think we're still the the apartments what to to do with that I think we know they won't probably come online more towards I don't know the end of next year probably Gary or that's what we're assuming you know probably not till fall but it yeah it might even be 25 yeah but I think we do want to I know I we talked more with you know David and Nick I we just pull more information as far as what other students since our first Department complex but that could obviously if we say they're residential versus commercial versus some other tier I guess I know we've tried to we've Consolidated from three to two so whether we want to try to have them fit one of the other two tiers or whether it makes sense to do and then we'll have to look at I think when at that same discussion we'll look at for sewer and stuff there but I still think when we talk about the apartment and I could be wrong that we need to charge them on a per unit basis for connection and we did because we collected that already yeah because it's yeah it's infrastructure that we need to provide every unit so y yeah and they will have one meter not 148 so have one Central meter so it'll be divided up amongst you know those apartments the residents will pay that in their rent so but we'll have to you know figure out exactly how we're going to actually charge them so right cuz every I mean I consider it you know an apartment is going to be similar to a house when you're going to have oh same you know same you washer dryers you got dishwashers you got people showering Bing and stuff like that so there's a lot that you're not doing in an apartment I mean you're not cleaning your deck you're not cleaning the your siding you're not cleaning your you're not watering your yard that's probably a separate meter I would assume you know yeah that'll all be separate but I mean so has to be looked at you know how do you compare it to a house and it's very similar in a lot of ways but yeah yeah communities must have experience that's what we're going to have to probably point at or look to because yeah they are I guess similar yet different I guess for I for the most part I mean yeah you're right you don't have the outdoor stuff but you have all the indoor stuff's the same MH you know so okay all right so we agreed 7% and and raising the connection fees and yep okay so we'll do the yeah 3700 there and maybe we'll just do that same per to the area charge that we're doing for the connection charge whatever 3700 divid by 3300 is or he'll do that same I don't know if we have well any uh what our area charges will look like for the next that's obviously and just new development or whatever new plats we get collect that so yeah it's not that much I mean in the near future anyway no anything coming down the pike really so okay right okay so then recycling recycling so so recycling um I think everyone knows or maybe if they don't so we're in our um sort of in the middle of our contract with Waste Management we entered into in in 2020 so I guess we're three years in about got two years left which I guess there's pros and cons of having you know being you know locked in you know we've got our set rate increases in last time back in 2020 though the rates between the two contracts really were a big jump so that's why um we've tried to do more of a a phased spend down of the fund balance we had and know that we're basically subsidizing a little bit because we would have had to make some larger increases to the the utility fee I guess the quarterly fee and um so if you on page eight there I've got um I've ran a couple different options depending on what people feel comfortable for uh cash balance or fund balance and I think option one the the lower increase is still probably fine um but um you can see some of the uh the cost for contract per month you know goes you know from 5.57 to 579 and then you sort of make that on a quarterly basis in an annual basis times the number of households we have um and then you can see our if we right now our in our quarterly rate is $13 a quarter so guess I would recommend going to $14 a quarter dollar increase for the year $4 for the a dollar for the quarter four for the year annually um it's you know still takes advantage some of the fund balance we had in the fund and we're we're um planning on spending down you know so um it's not a surprise that you know when it's not cash flowing yet and I guess we'll have to see once um that contract comes around in 2025 maybe the recycling Market will be a lot better I doubt it but seems like no one wants to take take it anymore I guess or I think that's the issue or as far as as the uh disposing or whatever the uh landfills or whatever you call it or wherever it all goes or or or you know what can be recycled versus what needs to be disposed of I guess or um I know China and stuff or some of that from talking to the vendor and stuff that used to be a better International Market and stuff and that's all sort of changed and so um I don't know does anyone have any questions when it comes to recycling looks like Ann maybe does right Jer and I had a long talk today because I am just this point I'm only annoyed um the cost the recycling service charge is going up and up and up and up and it's something that the state encourages it and insists that the counties in the cities offer the access but the residents have no choice and that's like saying you have no choice about whether you're trash pick up or no choice and how I came to this was I called to um um to get this taken off for six months because I and so I was sold now you you have to pay it now the odds of me hiring a lawyer for $13 a quarter is pretty zero right I think right so and the fact that we have to have it Jasper did an excellent excellent job of working with me to to try to get to the bottom of what what can be done and I have come to the conclusion that nothing can be done well done Jasper yeah regarding avoiding paying the recycling fee um quarterly correct yeah so are we to kind of to Ann's Point are we charged for every household whether they pick up the recycle or not yes correct that's the contract see that's the issue it's not so much that it's not that we're being bag for charging you it's they're being baged for charging us the C even if they don't pick up the That's the public point I want to make the argument goes above us yeah yeah and you're not the first one to bring that up we've heard that that because in reality that shouldn't be right if if you're out of the country for six months or in Florida and if and again because you can call your you can call your garbage holler say I'm going to I don't want my garbage five minutes done right but I can't do this so it's it's annoying and like I said I there's not a lot I can do about it but something should be done somehow that should come up for the future especially since when you take a look at these costs that are escalating from 146 to 189 in three years where's it going to go from there and these are being what hoed is the best word but they're being put on us something should be done I don't know what to do I'm not and every county has it right so some counties put it on your property taxes other counties or cities do it like this so like in um Cass County where we have our our cabin guess what we get to pay $60 a year for recycling really mhm yep yeah some cities just blend it right into their property tax so same type of thing you know you know they just add it into their overall budget and then whether you use it or not you're paying your property taxes for that portion so this if anything is a little more transparent because you've got you know the number of accounts and how many what waste management is charging us and then what we're collecting in a utility revenue so and yeah we definitely don't have 100% participation or whatever I don't understand I don't understand why this is legal I do not understand so resents can't just opt out right recycling like you can't reach no you can't you can't and you should be able I've got a list of more things oh you do yeah no just regarding how can this be but there's also the issue of when you pay property taxes in another County for instance we pay property taxes in C County and we pay more taxes than the people that are residents there and guess what we don't get to vote there it's not okay I I know it's not I mean I I I've said that many times that's yeah but anyhow um so I can State Statute dictates that this is required so it's 115a in that section if you look it up and that basically assigns the duty of collecting these fees to the county and to the cities and other Municipal agencies so it it starts from the top and works its way it's it's it's all part of the goal I think to have what is it's like 75% % waste reduction I saw it I read it yeah so I researched it and read it and and I get it it's just that I don't have warming fuzzies about the actual what's happening with recycling that's number one number two I don't like being forced to do something especially when I'm not using it so it's a higher level discussion I don't want to waste our time here but I am annoyed about it really noted noted yeah all right um so a dollar you don't want don't want itll go for it do what you have to do the dollar just what um how much do we want to keep spending down the the fund before we have to start raising it again yeah that's I guess yeah a good question as far as um you know obviously this option one has it going down to about 880,000 at the end of next year and then the following year be about 44,000 you know the raising it a little higher on page two here page n in the packet option two you know brings it to like but we don't really need a fund balance in I mean not too much or whatever I mean it's yeah not so much like other funds where we actually have like locked in I mean we have a locked in contract and we're still I we we're lucky we have a little bit of fund balance to be able to spend down but there's nothing really I think like a policy type obviously that we have internally or even um you know at some point if we get down to 20 or 30 then you know is it or if it goes you know to zero obviously then we got to probably do some larger increases or or you know transfer some money from a different fund or you know our guess or something if the I mean I don't maybe not the general fund or I guess but it's one of those I mean like I said earlier keep some places tax for some places use you could subsidize through the general fund I guess too or whatever so you're comfortable if it gets down to 43 after yeah I'm at least good until we're going for that new contract in August of5 which we probably have to be talking about earlier in 2025 um and then we'll have to see if we're down at like 30 40 50,000 and if the rate goes we now instead of it being $17 a quarter it's $21 a quarter I mean hope it doesn't go up that much or something but that's going to be the Big Driver I guess right how many oh I'm sorry oh how many players are in the Waste Management Field oh not many I know um they just um was it Republic just asked Renee here recently as far as when our contracts up I think Public Waste Management that's a yeah they're everybody's buying everybody two bigat are buying everybody there's only like two or three now I mean yeah there used to be yeah we have five garbage haulers in the city and now we're down yeah we're down a couple few or whatever so there's some competition still for not much though not much yeah Republic Waste Management I think well when this contract's up then we can get a quote I would just do one for now and yeah okay yeah we should yeah good the next year too it' be interesting yeah we can worry about that in 2025 I guess or whatever so all right um and then I guess the last item this one um is not um a user fee so or well let me take that back it's not a fee that we put in our fee schedule is that maybe a better way of so so this one should be easier I more just wanted to bring this to show I mean it is one of our Enterprise funds we have and we do need to adopt a budget for it but um wanted to more just show that um you know we I think did our purpose in in our um what we were looking to do with the the midco project and expanding Broadband but um some of the uh fund balance we had built up over the years with the franchise fees about 50,000 or so um was um now we've spent that down so basically um you know I think we're going to be somewhere you know if you look at the budget page on page 14 you know somewhere between you know 40 60,000 you know over the next couple years or whatever for a for a fund balance obviously that depends on I I brought the franchise fee Revenue down a little bit 24 just based on more people I think are are not using that anymore um one item we we have done we sort of bumped up salaries for a while based on with some of the more additional time people were spending with the midco project and different things I guess you know we could bring that back a little bit and allocate a little less salary of you know um payroll time to the cable fund so that would be one way to so so let's let's go into that okay um I had in my head that Ali's position was being paid for out of here as a temporary thing and that she was going to come back into the full um sta I want to say it was more a few years ago even before the midco project I think it was more like that um that there should be some staff time starting you know with gearing up with some projects and and things and um just knowing that some of the communication stuff and some of those things are um maybe related or at somewhat related to this type of um fund so um but she does a lot more than that oh yeah she's she's a lot more valuable than that and so I don't understand why she's still in this I don't understand why some a yeah it's a portion of yeah I think her time as well as I think even Darcy our friend I mean so I think there's a couple different staff that are allocated there the point is is that necessary or can she be folded back in we probably could fold more back into the general fund if the council if we want we don't have to use any of this for salaries but it helps offset our general fund and our general Levy and our Levy amount what else could we use the money for because we need Jas oh well so if so the camera for for the cameras so the peg fees we're uh we can only use those for like Capital but the franchise fees we can use for whatever we choose so the peg fees are the only thing that are regulated the franchise fees are open whatever we choose so what's the ramification we fold Aly back into the staff budgets and then that gave us 93,000 for the camera stuff right except we do want to spend that kind of money on camera stuff we don't have to but the point is we have it and so what's the ramification what's the downside the money um would be 50,000 against the general fund would be the tradeoff okay that's another Point that's another percentage increase yeah so that's sort of been the yeah where the rationale for even I mean there is time spent there it's just a matter of is it now back to where maybe it's 25,000 versus 50,000 that would probably be maybe the step to go I guess or yeah that makes more sense yeah should we maybe do that or so but that again that will increase our Levy so maybe maybe what we should be doing is maybe next year for the 2025 budget we should start ramping that down okay I I would say this year because we have such a huge increase already I hate to increase it even more we're trying to reduce it remember but I think for the 2025 budget let's look at that and see if we are if we shouldn't be because it's it's going to disappear at some point yeah we should be ramping it down anyways because we're not going to keep getting $50,000 right who knows what'll happen in three years correct five years in the contract I got a question BR just some of her Sal come out to of the water and sewer fund because she does a lot of communication stuff through that and a lot of our poll I mean is that something that viable does that some of it like Mike's comes out of there you know on our sewer guy but I mean could some of that come out of there to help offset some of this through the Enterprise funds I mean I'm just throwing it out there to tree fund I'm just throwing it out there I mean if you don't want to so a hard hit on the general fund I mean you could take some allocation out of that like we do for you know the other guys you know and stuff so I'm just throwing it out there you have to look at it globally probably just yeah we are yeah I mean the last few EI that she's getting fired I want to keep her WR so but okay so yes so keep it the same for 24 and then 25 look to to ramp that no it's good good valid point and I think to Gary's point that might also be a consideration for 2025 at least okay yeah you go all right um and then let's see is that it close cable fund and now our yeah so um we're going to go into Clos session at this time and this is p pursuant to Minnesota statute 13d point5 subdivision 3B and it's to discuss the city's options to participate in multi-district lawsuit class settlements um entitled NRE okay a aquous film forming Foams products liability litigation United States District Court District of South Carolina Charleston division Etc do I have to say all of those things yes I do all right Charleston division mdl number 218 MN 2873 RMB city of Camden at all versus 3M Company case number 223 uh CV 3147 RMG city of Camden atall VII DuPont gosh and Company why can't it be in German um at Hall case number 223 V cv32 RMG that's it and who's going to be do I have to list the people that will be in the Clos session uh Madame mayor members of the council there should be a motion in a second to go into Clos session okay is there a motion thank you is there a second thank you Mr vicory um and then all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes 550 so we are going to go into Clos session and then do you need to know who's going to be in closed session uh Madame mayor um we don't record the Clos session for attorney client privilege okay so there's really no need to state that for any record purposes we are back in Open Session now we just discussed uh with our attorney and staff the um options that are that were before us regarding this law uh class action law suit do I need to say what okay that's it um so with that um motion to adjourn the work session so move thank you Mr vicory is there a second second thank you miss refkin all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes by o we are adjourned until 7 o'