recording in progress the mics are unmuted we are recording at a 7:00 okay we're going to call to order the June 6th 2024 Planning Commission meeting we'll take a roll call commissioner Lynn here commissioner Hargreaves here and Comm bremond is here and absent is commissioner kazaki kazaki I believe all right and at this time I'm going to invite you guys to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance with me I pledge of allegiance to the plag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with libery and justice for all all right and then first up is there are there any um changes that need to be made to the agenda by staff or by the Commissioners I don't have any changes Amor okay if there's no changes from the Commissioners then I'll go ahead and entertain a motion to approve tonight's agenda I'll second all those in favor say I I any opposed no okay and then next we're going to go ahead and take a look at approving the meeting minutes from May 2nd 2024 if there aren't any uh changes or comments then I'll take a motion to approve those minutes I'll make a motion is that you starting one or is that you asking for one asking I'll make a motion to approve the minutes and then I second it all right all those in favor say I and then that takes us to our first piece of business tonight which is open Forum I did I'm sorry um open forum is an opportunity for anyone who's here to um bring to our attention any matter they'd like to discuss that is not currently on the agenda so if there's anyone here who would like to address the commission for any item that's not on tonight's agenda you can feel free to approach the podium state your name and address I'm guessing that there isn't anyone here does not like I don't have any okay so then we'll move on and we will get to our first piece of business which is the public hearing for Upward Acres preliminary plat and variance and we're going to start with the staff report thank you madam chair first item is upward Acres which is a preliminary pla variance request the applicant is SK limit LLC they are proposing a six single family residential subdivision on 61 roughly 61 Acres uh on a property at 22 22625 County Road 10 it's south of County Road 10 and west of beol Road and a variance will be required for the existing residents to remain as it will have a reduced setback from County Road 10 the plat consists of one property with six development rates currently on our map the existing structures to are to remain on proposed lot one block one the existing home was built in 1960 so that's why it does have a smaller setback than what is typical for County Roads and then there are two existing accessory structures one will become an attached structure to the existing house and then the pole barn will remain uh detached Additionally the 2040 natural resources inventory map does indicate a high quality Maple Basswood community on the southern portion of the subject which is Al of the subject property which is also adjacent to a wet Prairie Community the six Lots range from 4.2 acres to 30 acres in size and these all exceed the minimum lot size of 2 acres in the rural residential for a standard plat with the dedication of a 50 foot 50 foot half right away on County Road 10 which was confirmed by a memo we received from henon County and that has been provided on the Das the existing structures on lot one will not be be able to meet the 100t setback from County Roads so the house will have a 44t setback the garage would technically have a 44t setback as well because it'll become one structure with the house and then the pole barn would have a setback of 83 ft the pole barn will be able to comply with a 60ft setback which is allowed with increased Landscaping per city code uh but the house setback does require the variance the Lots will be served by a new Public Road built to a rural section standard the staff report did call out an 80ft Street rway to be required which is the standard City specification however engineering has since re-evaluated this requirement as compared to what's been previously approved for other rural subdivisions recently um and they stated that if the applicant can show the drainage and the home side of the ditch can all be accommodated within a 66t RightWay then that can be reduced accordingly uh so that would be an a change to the condition of approval that staff is willing to concede County asked the city to consider penipen County asked the city to consider connections for future Road Connections to um East South and West that limits direct access onto County Road 10 in the long term uh City staff really argue that Wetlands to the east and south make a connection very unlikely for lot one uh which would have a direct access served by their existing driveway instead of the new proposed Road uh but there is a private drive to the East and so St working with the county City staff includes a condition of approval to have right of way dedicated uh to make uh but a street connection would not be constructed from where the PAC currently is shown to the West boundary line just that a basically an easement would be established to the West Property boundary allow for future connection under a condition where the private Drive were to become a public Street we don't anticipate that to happen but it's not um I just to just today I'm receiving a request for a private Street to be considered for a public road so it does happen um so the applicant though did reach out after the staff report was published and said at shared that this does com conflict with one of their storm water ponds and and they don't believe there is an alternative location for the ponds I believe there um wanted to speak with the commission about that this evening for the septic an alternative septic site must be shown in permitted by H County for lot one right now just the existing site is shown and that was a condition that didn't make it into the staff reports that' be a new condition of approval in the draft resolution additionally there are a few septic sites that do not meet the 75 foot setback from a delineated Wetland Edge so new locations for uh where those setbacks aren't met must be provided and permitted by henin county and that is a condition of approval um and then the Wetland delineation is currently under review with the city which must be finalized prior to the final plot application moving forward there were six Wetlands identified and uh with the submitt from the applicant and the plans do show Wetland buffers and the monument signs but there were a few more than one area where it didn't meet the the the buffer wids didn't seem to comply with the uh averaging requirements and then the there are a couple areas where some additional Wetland buffer signs are needed so staff will continue to work with the applicant to make sure that the plan ultimately is compliant uh lot one you do have to consider the accessory structure footprint requirements uh it is a 4.2 acre parcel which has allows a footprint of 2,188 square feet the first th000 square fet of an attached accessory structure is exempt from this calculation so the applicant narrative does provide that the detached garage will become attached to the house and then the remaining detached pull Barn is about 1,800 Square ft looking at the foundation so staff does recommend a condition of approval to ensure that the detach garage does actually indeed become an attached structure uh to require sub midle of the as part of their Financial Security based on the estimated cost to demolish the garage so if we don't receive a permit within a year to attach the detached garage um within a year then we would be able to make sure that the the lot does end up complying with the standard for landscaping the plan reflected five new trees of of 2-in caliper at planting with the narrative explaining Property Owners would be responsible for planting the trees and in the ground cover uh so there were a few condition stipulations added to have the Landscaping plan and process meet the city requirements including that the overstory trees must be at least 2 and 1 half inch caliper at the time of planting we do need to have tree species identified they can always amend the Landscaping plan later if a property owner does not want that tree but we have to show that no more than a third of the trees are of a Singlish species in order to meet city code and the of the required trees they can certainly plant more than that and it's that becomes Irrelevant for anything that exceeds the requirement and then they also have to have the anticipated ground cover shown on the plan and the applicant is responsible for installing the required trees and ground cover that's not a requirement of the um of the homeowners uh we aren't it's a requirement of the development contract so and plantings must be shown along County Road 10 for a reduced setback for the existing structure so they will have to uh either uh provide a tree survey of what's already there or to show how it complies with Landscaping standard or uh where it's needed to add additional Landscaping to meet the flexibility requirement finally uh an overhead street light is required per City policy as a public safety requirement at the intersection of County Road 10 and the new Public Road this is consistent with what has been previously required of recent rural subdivisions um um and then the variant the findings of fact are um described in the staff report again it's to allow a 44t setback from County roow 10 for the existing residents on lot one staff does believe that the existing nature of the structure provides a practical difficulty in complying with the setback after the new right of way is dedicated to meet the henken County requirements so there are findings of fact that support granting the variants uh and again there's staff finds it to be reasonable to add a stipulation that they provide additional landscaping that's compliant with our flexibility Clause so at this time the commission should open the public hearing and take any testimony staff recommends approval and there are two draft resolutions one approving the prelim preliminary plat and then the other approving the variance okay thank you uh and at this time then we'll open the public hearing which um I I know that the developers are here so we can start with giving you guys an opportunity to approach um if you'd like to say anything at the podium um we'll let you guys go first and then if there's anyone else here who wants to speak or make comment then we'll follow up with you thank you commission uh my name is Paul lot I'm the project engineer in this um representing my clients here um we are good with the staff Report with the exception of uh the road right away to the private drive on the west side of us um we kind of look at that as you know it it's a private drive now we we aren't able to access it maybe someday in the future we could um but there are some practical difficulties I don't know if you have an overhead but if if you're okay with it I brought a couple handouts just to make a picture kind of work a little bit better I just have two of them if you can share a little bit and then I'll just talk through this a little bit and I'm super familiar so you can look um all right so this is just the end of our c toac that we have shown and I you know we got a bunch of detailed engineering plans but basically if you come off a Cy Road 10 there's kind of a hill out in the middle we're going to come up with our road to the top of that hill and then that Hill is going to come back down towards the Wetland in the back that's kind of the natural landscape of the property that's where water is Flowing now the Wetland in the back is the lowest elevation so our road water is being collected in ditches and it's going to come to a pond that's near the front of the property near County row 10 and then on the back side of that hill so as we get to the back of our culdesac um we've done the septic testing we've gotten those approved with Hanahan County Lots two and four on either side of the culdesac are very there's really only these two places to do septics we dug a bunch of holes we actually met out with them we dug back ho to make sure and confirm that everything that they were good with everything thing so on my map the red hatched areas are the approved septic areas that um we found on the lots and we believe these are really the only septic areas there's not really much room to move them we tried going downhill we couldn't um because we wanted a little bit more room in the culdesac as well we're really getting kind of pinched there we um we've got a lot of things that we have to comply with we have to have our 200t road Frontage so that's one thing that set our lot lines we have to have two septics on each Lots that's crowding Us in here we need to get a driveway past the culdesac and then through there's a old Crossing on the creek down there that we're going to be utilizing for the driveway so we have to get our driveway in there and we have to have our storm water ponding our storm water ponding can't go on in either lot two or four because of elevations we can't get the water physically to the area and then Outlet it into the pond so our storm water Pond is set in this location and as you can see the yellow so the blue on on there is the driveway to the South and the yellow is is a 60 foot rway whether that was 60 or 66 feet um we could live with what what we are proposing as a compromise would be that we would Grant a street easement for a street but be allowed to put our pond in that street easement with the thought being that when this redevelops um more than likely we've got a higher density something's changed out there um the private drive on the East is an existing condition those homes are it's all developed along there they have approved access with hopen County so if this connection is Ever Needed I I feel like it's going to be maybe when city sewer and water comes something's going to be different and with that storm water management is going to be different so if we put in a new road we're going to have to redo that and this Pond would probably have to be reconfigured and so if that would come to fruition and there's was a the street on the west side of the property became a public Street our lot three could now access off of there and we would probably have the opportunity to expand this Pond into the area that was the driveway so that's our compromise we would really rather not give it e a Street easement at all but if if you feel like you really need to have it we would ask that we would still be allowed to put our storm water ponding in it in the end term until if and when that right away is Ever Needed I I said the rest of the things are um we've looked through them we've worked through them we don't have any issues with any of the other conditions we will work with staff to into that so I sure answer any the questions okay do you can I do so it's the right away that's the pain point the 75t for septic is not me because you were commenting on the challenges there of the certain areas that they can be do you find that that will be manageable the 75 foot the 75 ft that they're referring to isn't on these two septics it was the one onot three myself lot three was show too close but we've since moved that with h okay thank you so Woodland Court second edition that's not not existing right now to the to the West that is those are exist exist neighborhood yeah that's a private Drive yep those are developed it's not a public stre because what's the easement needed for if that's already developed if it becomes a public Street we'll we'll we'll touch on it when we get to our discussion so I'm going to open the public hearing just in case anybody here has comment but we'll come back to that I'll or Natalie can explain we'll explain but yeah does anyone else have questions I we can call you back up as well so I think at this point in time thank you so much for explaining thank you for offering a solution we'll consider and discuss and then we'll just let any members of the public who want to make comment regarding yeah thank you um regarding the upward Acres preliminary plat if there's anyone here who wants to make public comment feel free to approach the podium state your name and address but I don't think there is so I don't want to scoot through but uh I think that um I'm going to say that the public hearing has been opened and then I will also um take a motion to close the public hearing because no one's approaching a motion to close the public hearing I can second that all right all those in favor say I I and anyone opposed okay so now we'll get to the point uh where we can have some uh discussion and so if we want to address um commissioner your question first uh regarding the Woodland Court second edition and your question was are there existing homes there yeah what what is there right now there are existing homes but it's a private drive that street is not a private drive off County Road 10 for multiple homes y yep for multiple homes off the county Ro there's a a private drive that actually AB buts this project site to the the West boundary of this project site um so the the think so basically looking at the public not public private driving agreement there is a clause on there that says should another house um enter into the agreement it would become a public Street at that time so that would be a condition where we could theoretically see something added if something were to be if if something were to be added at this point that I can't foresee I don't foresee that particularly happening anytime soon but it's not impossible and it is a specific Clause of the private Drive agreement the other scenario that can happen is if they have troubles maintaining it um the people along the private Drive hi nice to meet to request that they be um sorry distracted uh that they be uh that this private Drive turned into a public street so the again I I have a call with I have to return a call with someone who has having that request right now not on this but it does happen and it's not unheard of um and then the other scenario would be far into the future should something redevelop whether that be um under rural development standards or Urban standards um it would allow for a more integral Road Network that um alleviates direct access on the County Road 10 so that's that's the planning purpose so staff is going to show you where the connections can be made um but that that's part of the reason why we're not requiring the road to actually be constructed where that um blue box is shown in the staff report because we don't think it's something that's going to happen anytime soon it just allows for planning in the future for a road Network and it doesn't look like there's any development rights on that property to the West it looks like there's lot nine separate Lots on that property to the west and they all access from a private drive I'm looking at the development rights map so there are eight property rights on a property west of that division so theoretically someone could purchase several properties properties in a row and want to try to subdivide it so it's not again it's you're just we're just trying to think through all scenarios and just tring to call out kind of bookmarket for a scenario where we would want a connection the property with eight development rights to the to the west of that property that has access from what is it ER erby it's a road that just went in for kem's development yeah but again staff's going to want to have Road Connections like it's not great practice to have a whole bunch of streets that just kind of dead end you want something that allows for an internal Network that doesn't rely heavily on access to County Road 10 so that that's what it would plan for in the future that that's the argument for it that's what the county has asked us to do and they may never even do it it might not happen but books marks it so that should there be conditions that um the unlikeliness because things that aren't likely to happen I see half quite a bit Yeah you I hear from people all the time that they'll never sell a property ever ever ever and then the property's up for sale so it just it it allows to plan for those contingencies um and I think staff is open to City staff is open to looking at allowing a storm water Bond yeah I I think there would be some allowance to look at what options there might be and really the county was the one that really was driving this requirement so I think we if if really the the desire is we don't want this easement ever uh to allow for an internal Road Network to the west then I think staff would be okay with that ultimately so it is not a requirement it's just a consideration right we need to it's required to consider it got it my question I guess regarding the proposal about allowing the stormw water pond in that right of way easement would be would the requirement to connect a driveway for lot three to that public Street if it becomes a public Street be a requirement of the future resident of that property that's my only question lot one or lot three we talking about lot three cuz the recommendation was at that point in time cuz lot three is the one who has to have this like really long driveway crossing a creek because so I my I AB but this property so I'm very familiar and what a year to be putting in an application with the excess amount of rain we've had so I have standing water everywhere I can only imagine what it looks like like there so um so my when you made the proposal you indicated that at at at such a time as if that Woodland Hills becomes a public Street lot three could access through that public Street and then that leaves uh more area for that storm water Pond to be reconfigured at the time uh that that right of way is utilized into a full Street it were you I guess my only question is would the responsibility for making that connection that cost changing the driveway configuration be on the future res president yeah I guess that it probably depends on when it happens sure um because I guess when I look at it the need for this connection is going to be some sort of a change in the land use because we've already got the road there with those lots the only way that that's even if that comes into the city I don't think that that henan county is going to close their access you're just improving the road so I think it's going to be when sewer and water comes or some other thing change and I think what's going to happen is that those septics go away we probably have a lot more room there requiring that owner to connect I would think would be a burden on that property and I think that if the connection was going to go through there that would have to be a part of the project cost for that connection however that was paid for so if we take take the proposal into consideration allowing the storm water Pond to be in what is considered that right of away event do we have to make consideration for that at this time or is that there's really no way to hold there would way to hold this applicant to to be responsible for some unknown date I mean so it would would we have to specify a resident our city no we don't because it may even if it's developer driven it might be the cost of the developer who's igniting the change so we could just have a discussion about whether we're comfortable with the storm water ponding being in the right away easement and that could be the end of our discussion for right now talking about and you indicated that that is something the staff is willing to consider yeah we could definitely exp that between now and Council okay all right is there anyone else who has discussion that wants to take this in a different direction well no I have a couple of questions though um number one is do we have an overlay that shows the wetlands overlay on top the development and do we have an overlay that also shows a development L on top of the the maple wood Basswood community so uh the preliminary plat does show the Wetland boundaries a hard to see it look like our printer wasn't great yeah I you know I did see that and I I I didn't I know that's what it is but it's just not real clear um when you lay the development on top of that it would be really beneficial at least to me to know where those how those wetlands are affected with the development and the same with the the Basswood and the Maplewood uh Community yeah so the Basswood Maplewood that's yeah indicated where the tree preservation areas are shown um and go ahead I think you had an AI there I can do just to help out a little bit um for the to for the trees uh we are proposing no tree cutting everything we're doing is out in so we are not proposing any tree removal we are going to do some tree preservation areas for storm water credits with the Watershed District um but we aren't proposing any any tree removals the wetlands have been a little bit more exciting on this there are there are there's a lot of wetlands we've got a nice little S curve in our road when we come in all right so yeah there we go so our Road's going to come in pretty close there's an approach out there right now pretty close to that approach we're going to come in and swing around this set of wetlands come down in our Colac is a boat in this area so the homes are going to sit approximately here here here and then across the road over here and then this home this is another little Wetland down here we've got some septics staked out over uphill from there and that home is shown on our plan out here in the field now that doesn't mean that they couldn't build somewhere else there is a there is a finger of land here that that is high enough we didn't do any septic testing our septics are here so we're showing this house on kind of on the side of here facing back to the north um and then this is that little Crossing I was talking about um in this area so that's kind of what we're doing so there's a wetland complex here that flows into this Wetland which flows into this which gets into the creek and then obviously you can see all of this Wetland this is this almost this whole bottom is wetland down here and there's a wetland in here but out in the middle of here there are no wetlands in the in the Middle where just perhaps that's more of a question of or something directed at staff for the future because again I really like to understand where those things are and how they how the development impacts that uh the property I'll have some other I'm sorry but maybe we'll have to talk offline on what exactly you're looking for because I I don't create the plans so I don't I I don't I understand that perhaps we can communicate that to the developer it would be a changeing city yeah next time right yeah it would be a change in city code in terms of requiring a new type of plan so we'd have to change the subdivision ordinance so we can certainly talk about that but as far as requiring it um we we about that offline yeah after I don't want I don't want to take up time tonight to do that it doesn't look like it's impacting any of the trees or the or the wetlands other than the bridge across for the driveway it it really isn't it's an alela field right now is what it's been um the front part is I'm the property just you've got our neighbors uh live right up top right off 10 and I'm the one right down there so with two little ponds and and the barn second down from 10 East of the property yeah um so it isn't it's all being put up in the high uh High Ground where the AL is and they're leaving everything else alone which is wise because otherwise you'd have water issues you start removing trees and then you end up with more water issues so okay Madam sure yes sir if I me sure I'm a neighbor also um lived out there 17 18 years and your maps and the things you're requesting the placement of everything is very very much a Preserve of all the wetlands and everything couple of the spots that are identified as Wetlands 17 years ago 16 15 years ago used to be farmfield they've just turned into wetlands and now they've been identified that way and those are the two little spots close cl to the house that's existing um it's neat to hear not any tree or anything will be touched other than preserved so understood I'm Downstream from the cek I've got all kinds of other issues related to drainage and stuff like that as as uh Madame chair spoke um we're trying to fix some drain field so we can drain some more of this property but uh it's a nice layout in my mind as a as a neighbor and uh you guys are having a great conversation thank you for letting me speak Madam chair yeah if you you have more yeah I do have more questions so uh we were we are requiring landscaping for the whole Barn is that correct yes as a condition of approval they would have to require they would have to meet the either provide a tree survey showing that they have uh trees and shrubs that meet the requirement um or provide where it doesn't need the requirement add those additional trees and if we uh if we Grant the variance for the residence will that also trigger landscaping for that uh one of the the conditions of the variance was to make sure that there's Landscaping in compliance with that Clause yes and the lighting as required is that the burden of the developer yes that's uh it's my understanding from speaking with our Public Works director the utility compan is the one that actually puts it in but the it the cost is the developer okay good okay and if there was any way I thought that I would win with Public Safety I would request that that not be put in but I'm going to lose every time yeah so anyone else do you have more no oh okay um could I guess I have a question are you thinking an exclusive developer or open to Donan de part of Sky Summit um they'll be exclusive Clos build yeah thanks I love I love this and I feel like it'd be a great neighborhood to live in I like excited about this this looks very cool and I know you care about drainage so you're not going to mess this up I know that so I'm Phil I'm co- developer here with I'm also owner JPC Custom Homes on Buffalo um so we'll be the exclusive Builder here we're currently building back to Old Farms Community we're exclusive you know exclusive Builder there as well so want have any issues with drainage or um anything like that we don't want issues either you I guess maybe you can't promise or anything but would this be like an HOA situation or not probably no HOA watch CET architectural committee um you know between Donovan and myself but know it's it's rural so we want to we want to get people but same time we want it to look nice you know even with the existing house we've had some inquiries you know as far as the sale of the existing home and we've chosen to not move forward with them because we didn't feel it' be a good fit um you know for the for the neighbors that was actually going to be my question only because I have uh all the Neighbors in that area had expressed concern because Beck told Farms is uh in the uh when this listing went up it indicated no unsightly farm animals and I just wanted to make sure that you are aware that there are cows right across the street there are horses AB buding most of those well two of the properties that way then there's still two multi-generational dairy farms so the request was they want to make sure that whoever is moving into this neighborhood is aware that whether or not they themselves own unsightly farm animals there are unsightly farm animals that live in this area and there are roosters growing there are hogs doing what hogs do so that was the only concern that I heard from immediate neighbors and then also just concern about uh but once the preliminary plats came out with the house placement there was just some concern about like obviously don't walking up to the fencing and feeding other people's animals but those that's on the individual homeowner to indicate that they would hang signs um so if there's no ho because there is an HOA with a be told Farms neighborhood so that was going to be my followup question was it just because the size was smaller that there was going to be a little bit more uh flexibility from that cuz it didn't make the same sense to create a neighborhood Covenant with just so few homes yeah we've been pretty open to having this be really little to no restrictions here at all but just to maintain uh the um authenticity and the value of everyone's investment to choose to live here you we kind of have a certain caliber of Home requirement which is governed within the architecture control committee like specs for the home homes that are going to go there so they're all going to be nice homes you know package lot and and uh and home structures starting at probably a million on the floor and if something's in the mid 1 Millions to 2 million it wouldn't surprise me um we have never restricted and plan to not have animals here so part of the reason it's smaller and being the nature of the property does have other uh hooby Farm setups and stuff around there um it's a matter of we've been telling people go to the city and reference the city code regarding how many animal units they can have for the amount of Acres that they have so they're going to be able to do that um they want to have whatever the city they're going to be able to do okay and then I just had one other question and that was again Beck told Farms has a fantastic beautiful sign are you doing any signage with this neighborhood and the only reason I ask is that upward acres is an interesting name and so I was going to make a proposal for a second name if you were putting up a neighborhood side no I'm like call it Basswood preserve right that's what that that I mean take it or leave it I know we don't get to make any sort of recommendation in that way so this is I'm not beholding you to anything um but it sounds like if we're not doing HOA we're probably not doing any sort of neighborhood uh we don't need to acknowledge or call out the neighborhood for what it is yeah in general we had a lot of dialogue about that and usually we feel um for our communities we've done like this usually like the threshold for that is around 10 units of new housing is usually where we justify you you got to kind of expand your entrance and you got to set aside a piece and it um I just think we want it almost to tuck in here like it's always been there and not really flash that it's been that it's something that's new and shiny eventually because people can have out buildings and they can have we wanted to eventually just kind of blend in and almost be like oh this has been here a while um versus when we kind of brandish that fancy new monument on the front we kind of feel like we're flashing like come in come in they're not going to want people to come in there you know it's going to be the five people that access to the Colac and that's it perfect Madam chair real quick you spoke about unsightly animals and stuff it is quite odiferous at certain times of the year also you guys are aware it will peill paint and I'm a neighbor across the street and that's just fresh air to me please please let your residents know there will be smells sometime I'll uh I have a couple I'll mention that too when I'm up on the DI too but uh it neat idea yeah yeah it just creates Future Good Neighbor relationships as I think all were ultimately hoping for Farms have been around a long time and I still get calls from residents that have been out through 25 30 years asking what am I going to do about smell and I'm say I'm tell them nothing and it's a good time for you to move if you don't like the smell welcome the corpor and I know the people on the north side of the road dairy farm yeah you're all over very well built actually a couple homes on the our side of the road so know extremely well something we point out that it's in you're in rural you know rural country so it's you're going to get the smells and um it is what it is the other feedback from the neighbors and then I'll let commissioner Lynn speak too is that they are excited about the idea that it just is tucked back in there it isn't anything flashy it isn't anything grand um so all of that to say no one is is uh is not grateful for what the plan that is is going in there at least what's been communicated to me so yeah love to hear about the animals that's great um I think I don't have any more questions just a couple thoughts in a rightaway situation who maintains that for the 50 years before it's real becomes a road in an easement situation sorry easement so typically right of way like you mow your lawn typically to the curb or to the edge of the street so typically like you are maintaining that part and if it's not the homeowner is typically doing that maintenance um um as far as if this is Street easement then it would really be up to the property owner because technically that's still early and we would just have Street easement over it um and but the storm water ponding typically goes to we'll have it a drainage utility ement over it in case we do need to access it to address anything but typically against either the property owner or an HOA that's handling the the long-term storm water maintenance okay um and then I like the idea of the Financial Security wonder if that could even just be a policy or an idea for a policy at some point like anyway um and so I guess I don't know how do we all feel about the rightaway piece or the the easement right so I think that it's a I think it's a worthwhile proposal um to still allow the idea that uh a street could make that connection cuz I think it is important and being and I'm not saying this just because I live to the east but because I live to the east there's no way you're going to get a feasible Road in that way unless you are doing a ton in that area so all of that to say it makes the most sense to go to the west and I think it makes the most sense to plan but if the if if the compromise can be made that we would allow storm water Pond to be built in that right of weight and that's something that the city is comfortable with I'm happy to make that recommendation to council I think the benefit of doing that is it doesn't become it doesn't start to feel like someone's yard either right which sometimes if you're in in a right like an easement scenario you're like using that as your yard that sort of become like you're mowing to that point and now all of a sudden the city comes in and it's like well we're going to put this road or development comes in and not the city but development comes and now the right right away needs to be made but if it's a storm water pond it's just holding water anyway nobody's really doing anything in that point and then that just moves from there to becoming part of the road and the developer is responsible for moving that pond or whatever needs to happen yeah I think it's very reasonable yeah I'm just wondering if we need it at all need oh need the right the easement it may never be used but you might as well just put it in there and allow them to have their Pond and that way just real quick Natalie don't we have one that is kind of popped up of hunters up up on the end request e that's up there in the pond that's there and at some point the road will come in you know what I'm talking about up and hope yeah I don't um I don't know if there's a storm water p in there I'll have to look but I don't think it's I don't think the request is unheard of I think it'd be something we want to explore and I think basically I think what the recommendation could be um is that if uh engineering if City engineering can handle a compromise of the storm water ponding being in a a street eement or right of way then um then in that scenario we can have that as a condition but if that's not if if it's either or um then the recommendation is to not have the easement something like that yes that would cover I like it okay so then are you willing to make a motion oh okay yeah I don't know if it's a storm water pump but yeah they have they built into the area where the yeah that's the one I was do you want to make a I make a motion to approve approve the resolution plat the resolution yeah there's two resolutions there's a preliminary plat and a variance okay to approve the pre preliminary plat and variance as discussed with the conditions discussed and changes I'll second all those in favor say I I anyone opposed right thank you nice thank you for the proposal it's nice to hear a solution I like it okay and then the next thing that we have is a public hearing for the conservation residential Park dedication and rsf1 and rsf2 ordinance amendments thank you madam um you can have my thank you madam chair first or the second item tonight is a a couple of city code amendments uh to account for a change made on March 28th by 20 March 28th of this year the city council approved the creation of a new land use category within our comprehensive Plan called conservation residential uh this land use category will allow new development within our Metropolitan urban service Serv area Musa uh at a density of two to three units per acre but there uh while I I was able to make one code amendment when that uh change went through I found three more shortly afterwards that needed to be accounted for so that's what we're taking care of tonight um so the first amendment is within our subdivision ordinance the park dedication table is by land use category and conservation residential is not called out and so we've added that uh and well as well as updated the density accordingly our Associated density accordingly to our low density residential category so at this time staff is proposing that the conservation residential development have the same park dedication requirement as low density residential development because as areas within the Musa and our Park dedication fees have all been calculated based on um that percentage of land being provided so it may it would be something further evaluated as part of a larger update when we're ready to talk about the part percentage of land reevaluation as well as our Park dedication fees but this kind of gives us a Band-Aid approach as we see some of these final plats start coming in uh the second actually the second and third section are just to our district standards within the Musa for single families so we have section 10404 which is our rsf1 just just clarifying that conservation residential areas uh can develop to the rsf1 standards um and then same with our rsf2 standards section 10404 and there's a flight typle in there lovely but open uh so the recommendation at this time is to open the public hearing and take testimony uh as you can tell we have a full run staff recommends approval of the draft ordinance with those three sections amended and then there's a draft resolution with the findings effect and support of this change thank you Natalie all right at this time we'll open the public hearing for anybody who wants to make public comment of which there is no one in this room but we will give it a short wait and then we'll go ahead and and um I'll just make a motion to close the public hearing uh anyone want a second second okay all those in favor say I I anyone opposed okay and then is there any discussion that anyone uh wants to have around this or any questions that you have otherwise if not okay I do go ahead commissioner okay so um sorry I was looking at my notes um so rsf2 as well as rsf1 and if this question is I'm just kind of like I guess let me ask get this way does zoning it does does allow o ing it within rsf2 on a policy level encourage developers in our community to develop with smaller Lots does it encourage that behavior no this change if anything is going to allow them to develop with larger Lots because this is a lower density land use category than the low density residential uh so low density residential is 3 to five units per acre conservation residentials two to unit per acre but rsf1 versus rsf2 rsf1 well keep in mind this is already called out as an allowed land use category in rsf3 which is the smallest lot sizes so it makes sense that would also be allowed in rsf2 which has slightly larger Lots than rsf3 and then same with rsf1 so it and right now we haven't seen any standard plaque come under rsf1 or rsf2 because they can't meet the density requirements under low density residential I just thought we just approved some going rsf 2 it was rsf 3 R yep okay um okay um okay and then uh okay I understand now your explanation on I was going to say should we require like 7% Park dedication right like strike it in the middle a little bit that was discussed the concern is again our fees that are CC on our fee schedule have been based it factors in it was a formula that I was not a part of so I not the person to ask and the person that did it no longer works here is our previous City administrator but she she went through very extensively all the available land all of the potential density associated with it in order to land at the percentages which then in turn determine our fee and so because this area is within the Musea it was projected to a certain way that's how we got that percentage and our ultimate underlying fee that each unit has to pay and so to change it at this point without addressing our overall fee totally get it so when the free when the fee structure is addressed we'll look at it yeah it's best practice to do it on an annual basis so we're we're overdue for it this is just I know that the final plat is coming and so we have to adjust it now and they're prepared to pay the park dedication fee um cuz when they went through Parks I did it based on the current Table with low density residential so they've been prepared for that fee so but moving forward it could come out to be when it's reassessed it could come out to be a more it could be a little different yeah it could be yep okay thank you anybody else no okay so then I'll make a motion to approve the ordinance number 2024 oh do we need to say them all you can just say the draft ordinance and the fact of finding right dra resolution second okay all those in favor say I I I okay and so then next up we have the staff report for the Shoreland overlay zoning ordinance Amendment City file 24-22 perfect y so this is our last public hearing tonight uh it is a zoning ordinance Amendment for our land overlay District uh city the city was made aware of the need to add two natural environment Lakes to the text of our district ordinance and it was in a letter from the Minnesota DNR from last July the proposed amendment will meet the requirement and it will be in compliance with the timeline provided by the DNR in that letter so it's two water bodies so it's cook Lake both the North and South segments um this Lake the shorel for this lake is actually already shown on our text our zoning map it just wasn't included in the text of our ordinance so it's just clearly identifying that moving forward and then the second uh bot the Shoreland is an unnamed Lake in Rogers and the Shoreland does extend past the Rogers Corran border along County Road 117 and west of Trail Haven Road uh the Shoreland for this body of water is not shown on our current zoning map this one was news to us um and so this uh once this is approved stack we'll then put it on our work plan to have the zoning map updated accordingly and so the zoning ordinance amendments really quick it's um I the major thing was changing from the protected water ID to what's now called the DNR public Waters ID which is slightly different numbering so that was updated for all our natural environment lakes and then adding the cookle north cookle south and the unnamed body of water in the uh legal description and so at this time we should open the public hearing and take testimony and then we recommend approval as staff as outlined for draft ordinance amending section 105020 and the draft resolution withing the fact okay and so we'll go ahead and open that public hearing and again just note that no one is in the chambers to address the commission or come to the podium so with that we will also then close the public hearing I'll make a motion second El those in favor I okay and so then is there any discussion or questions regarding this zoning ordinance Amendment no what does it affect yeah that's what my question is exactly what is the impact of this we are we are doing what the DNR told us to do by the deadline so that we are not in compliance with our shorland overlay okay so and so it's just so the sheland so because cook Lake pretty much everything around has been developed at this point that really doesn't it doesn't really affect it too much other than um people who are building um accessory structures might have some additional standards that they need to consider um but doesn't really impact development applications at this point and then um for the unnamed Lake in along County Road 117 that theoretically could affect someone trying to um develop that area or build a home in that area they'll have an impervious surface limit and a height limit um but I think it's a fairly minimal impact uh because for the most part we already we're treating cook Lake as a natural environment Lake we're just memorializing that in the text and it's a very small area within corkran from the Rogers Lake it doesn't cause the city to go back to someone to make Corrections or anything like that does it yeah okay it looks like a wetland area basically unnamed the lake so yeah we probably have the same restrictions as a wetland uh it can be a little it's very similar there are there's a height limit and a previous surface limit that the Wetland doesn't but yeah it's very similar okay so with that we'll just make a motion to approve the um City file number 24-22 and the draft resolutions and facts findings of fact fact findings I second all those in favor say I I okay and then our next up is the commercial and Industrial update yes than revisiting the table y um I wasn't too sure if we wanted to approach the subject once more I just figured I wanted to Circle back um to make sure that any comments that you maybe have come up since the work joint work session or weren't shared at the Joint work session if you wanted any to give me any feedback I can quickly jot that down um we don't need to spend a whole bunch of time on this if we don't want to is more just to make sure that we're we have a consensus as to where we stand on that this will not be our last time to talk about task three um right now next month we will move forward with a public hearing to remove storage uh Self Storage uses uh from our commercial and Industrial districts so that's coming in July we are currently underway with the uh rural commercial subdivision survey it's bit of a t but that is currently underway we are collecting responses the feedback from that will go to is anticipated to go to council June 27th and then further direction for task one will be provided at that point and then the idea has been um once task one and task two are um tied up in a pretty bow then we can switch gears and really move forward with task three there is some talk about requesting a special work session with Council to do a mobile tour to um some business park industrial areas so we can kind of get an idea of what we want for our vision um and so I'm sure we will invite the Planning Commission to that as well and that could be as soon as July depending on what the council decides uh at their next meeting uh but yeah so there's definitely things in motion but this you don't have to feel like this is your last chance it's more of just regrouping after the work session and would the tour be the burville area yeah actually probably there might be some existing Corr areas but it's actually more looking at other areas that have already developed under Business Park standards versus light industrial standards so you can see what the market currently has to offer and what like what do we like what do we don't like and actually be able when it's really different to scale when you're out um sometimes there's only so much you get from looking at pictures and so it's a chance to me to just get out in the field and um and get help us build a vision theyve recently that was actually going to be my followup is based on the concept plan that was uh was proposed before Council the night following that work session I think there needs to be some clarity around the business park um design standards in particular because there is only one area zoned in corkran and I think we need to get it right and it seemed like um there were some feelings about or some sense that it should be um be more specifically one way than the actual ual explanation called out so I think that that would be helpful even maybe uh arriving at metrics or measurables that says this percentage is this type and then then we can call it um what it is so that was going to be my first comment I feel bad because I feel like every time we talk about this I make it more confusing um rather than bringing any Clarity so I did go through um and the only thing that came up to me in ter well I have a couple um but the my question is in so many areas we have conditional uses rather than just permitted uses and can you help me understand why that is a benefit for the city rather than just having more permitted uses yes I can so the the thinking behind that is it gives the city some discretion to say this lot when it's a permitted use we if they're able to comply with all their standards there's no variances they can build it typically they'll still have to do a site plan so we do have a chance to see it confirm that it does comply but um there is no discretion we can't add any contingencies like okay well um you can go but really we're concerned about the impact to the neighbors to the West we'd like you to put up some trees to mitigate that impact a conditional use permit does give you that ability uh to and so you typically see it for uses that it's still so the thing with conditional uses is they are still permitted allowable uses it's just that it recognizing that it may be a type of use where additional stipulations may be needed to mitigate the impact so it should be reserved for uses that are going to potentially have more impact it should not be the there are some cities where they'll have districts where everything's a conditional use permit and that provides them I think with the discretion that they would like to have in some areas um but as a general rule of thumb it does add an additional um layer of review an additional deposit additional fee that can be you know it starts to add up especially for small businesses so you don't want to necessarily do that for every use um but something like a a gas station with a car wash something like that like it probably makes sense to have it to be a conditional use because that might not make sense on every site within that District okay so then the one um well one of the things that I noticed then when reviewing through the table is there seems to be um like this discretion between so I think there was one that was like a retail shoe like a shoe repair I'm like oh my gosh this seems very specific to call out first of all but then there seems to be this desire to have like commercial one be those walkable distance so not very large but then also commercial to being those where other Travelers are coming so there's going to be higher traffic why would we not permit a shoe repair store to exist in both of those commercials but then like commercial districts but just have the difference be the size of the store like couldn't you have a small owned business that's a shoe repair that is a walkable you know drop off your shoes very small store with a counter and then a small workspace in the back but you could also have something that's like quite large so it was called out in one District in out and the other and I just wondered how many other retail things do we do that with where we it would make more sense instead of restricting it to one District over the other to allow both in both districts that maybe do what we do for the commercial which is to put a sized restriction on it sure uh I I think that does make sense the only unintended consequence of a size restriction is sometimes we don't quite get the numbers right and then is why why is 10,000 fet okay but 10,1 Square fet isn't um and so it can seem arbitrary at times and I know like we have a we have a commercial commercial recreation and entertainment the one that I noticed like you could put a top golf or a Sky Zone in the commercial rural but right now according to this you could not put it anywhere else right and I think the commercial I think with that commercial recreation there if you look at what kind of small gyms there are is not going to like this what would C1 would allow is it's too restrictive okay um so that would be the concern is sometimes when you when you identify that hard limit which I I which I'm not opposed to it's just making making sure that it's flexible enough too so maybe it's it's permitted when it's less than that and and then more than that it would be a conditional use permit so that we do have some ability to be like okay well 10,000 one does make sense on this site that's really um so maybe something like that would be a compromise to try to call that out or if there's a different way to do it that would meet sort of the intent behind why we would want this size or type of I'm saying we're calling out a type when it seems like the use isn't should not be the distinguishing factor between those two zones it's more of the architectural standards correct and so so that's why I was like it it doesn't make you know because I could see a shoe repair or shoe whatever sale store existing in both of those districts so it seems silly to allow it in one and not allow it in the other uh just by use but but a different standard and I think this also can speak to the fact that sometimes when you when you finally get something adopted how quickly the market can change where it's irrelevant right um because I can't remember the last time I saw a shoe repair store I think when I worked as a pizza delivery driver in Minneapolis there was a shoe repair store across the Pizza Hut I used to work at but that's like the only one I've ever seen well and we're we're talking we can't just lump retail right like we can't be that General no we can we can um we could lump it and then so that what we have to be careful of if we lump it and then we want to call out some specific retail uses cuz we've decided that that's different than the general retail use um it would I think if we do that we really do need to move to some sort of table in the code because otherwise we it becomes unclear like okay well we do allow it here why don't we allow it here was that an oversight or do we intentionally say we don't want that here um so we just need to make sure it's consistent verbiage being used in all districts so I have a question um it says retail goods and service uses of a similar nature similar to what so retail or service of a similar nature to retail is what that's saying oh yeah are we go ahead I'm sorry finish so basically I think if under that if we didn't have shoe repair called out separately somewhere I retail and similar Services would fall under retail yeah so retail seems pretty broad then yeah what I notic too is I did take the survey and there were slightly different uses under the survey where it said which of these do you approve or not they were just asking for feedback on which ones should be allowed in that area yeah so I I took all the commercial Rule and then I added a few that have been kind of under discussion are we opening this agenda item and like going into feedback and edits on that or are we we are I think what we're doing because there's no public hearing on this and so what we're just doing is saying because this is what we talked about at the work session so if there's anything else that came out that you want to add um that can be added to discussion Just Another Touch Point not final time we're going to talk about it but just Another Touch point to as you read through it again did anything else come up okay so don't have to repeat any of the feedback from before I do feel like and the working session was valuable it was great to spend time with Council I feel like we don't get those opportunities often well at least I think I've been on this for like a little over a year and that was the first one I've had probably because I wasn't able to make the other ones um my for my fault but um I did feel like the task of this seems daunting for everyone it seems like it like I could feel it on both sides of the table of like we're playing Sims we're playing like Zoo Tycoon and it's hard to do and so I agree that we should it should be thoughtfully you know and the vision exercise like going out seems amazing love that idea and like simplifying this um you know so I just want to say I'm super supportive of that of like taking our time and building the vision because I feel like we all felt very daunted by it um and it you know I don't want it to hustle through to to just make some updates like you know this is and not I'm not saying that's what's happening I'm just saying this is a really good opportunity for us to work together and and do it right so I look forward to those opportunities just just real quick if I Madam chair sure this is an Ever evolving type thing yeah this is not going to be set Stone we're going to get all done in 3 or four years we're going to have a bunch of new people that are going to need it different yall are going to have different ideas as this city changes over the next 60 years before it gets up to the Western border just as other cities I mean Crystal used to be the corporate and everything has evolved from there so don't be disappointed when all of a sudden it's like well we just put this in the ordinance two years ago and it's not fitting into our plan now be fible please but also be outspoken to it means a lot to me and I know the rest of the folks on the council and the mayor we want as many people bringing up ideas as we possibly can the survey is fantastic I think I don't know how many good comments I get from citizens and residents out there that that's really cool well it's helping us do stuff so they just like why are you doing this that's a long story but the people that want this city to continue being what it is and understanding that things are going to change a little at a time it was a good survey I wanted those compliments so much work so I'm so happy to hear that it is it is very noticed and uh now that one person that said what a waste of time so thank you guys very much well what I appreciated about the survey was the um slideshow informational slideshow put together because I think the frustration for residents is they want to provide good feedback but they often don't have the months of understanding that people who are involved in the issues have and so I thought that that was really well done and I know it added a lot of time um but but I think in order to be able to speak um knowledgeably you have to know what the issue is and and especially pertaining to that issue I think it was um super necessary to have all of the background information that you guys G gave so and I know lots of people have been um grateful that they have the opportunity to provide input so I hope you guys see that reflected in the number of people who take it um you had a question sir me yes yes uh I uh the last time we talked about this there was a comment made about re reformatting the information in a in a different way so that I mean right now you look at in you have the various categories and then you have the various things where those categories fit into and it's all over the place I know some of the national codes condense that information or or group it differently where it's a little bit easier to read what's in what category yeah so I I think I think I would like to see a a use of tables much more simplified than what is part of what the problem with this is is just because often one it's called out slightly different in a different District so I think there's room to definitely make it much more viewable um but I think that would be an area where um other city codes have a use of table so that we don't have 60 pages of just reiterating similar or slightly differentiated uses um so I think that' be one area where we can simplify our code um and I think that actually would simplify most District because that's would say the bulk of our district standards is going through the uses um sounds like your Plate's getting Fuller but um K but yeah so I think I think there's definitely areas like that and then um we can look we can definitely look at formatting across different different formatting options as we go through this I I'd be more more than happy to help if if there's a way I could help so keep that in mind thank you and then I just had two other specific questions about the access Reb buildings and structures for uh use to the principal commercial or business why is that or is there an example that you could give that would help me understand why we would allow that in the business park district that's rebuilding for your success to the principal commercial um so sometimes there's just there's like a need for like a garage or a shed or things like that um I'm trying to think of a specific example and I'm blanking because typically warehousing something like that you would it's covered with building but maybe it's a maybe it's a slightly different setup it's allowing for but I think I think you're right it would be unusual or is this like I was wondering is it the type of thing where it's like they're going to do like a walking area for employees and it's got a gazebo like is that considered accessor like or is that something different than what I'm imagining I feel like that theoretically could cover it I I would hope a gazebo for some recreational space would be regardless of that but um I I suppose if there was some push back someone could point to that saying that yeah an accessory structure for my employees is allowed so as so theoretically I can ask Kendra to see if she has any more feedback on that um but I think you're right and as far as business park you don't typically see right that's why and I was confused by that yeah because it's not it's not um and obviously in industrial you wouldn't see it um and Commercial you wouldn't typically see it but Business Park just seemed to me that seems rather uh the other direction from sort of an upscale office retail space to allow that I do know in our light industrial like our our current light Industrial Area there are access businesses with accessory storage structures yeah and so even though on here because obviously it's only and I guess this was just a question of how the table was laid out so it's allowed in the industrial Light industrial so but it doesn't need to be on here indicating that it's a permitted use so just because on the chart it's not saying it doesn't mean that it's not permitted in that area well and just keep in mind so there's to his point with it being super complicated there's our accessory structure section of quotes somewhere else and I believe there's like if it's a non-residential district they get a th000 square feet or something like that so I think what this is saying is it could be more than the Thousand that's allowed by code okay um so yeah I I think that's maybe what it's coming from but as far as why would the business park use it and not the light industrial I I don't have a good answer for you right now but I hear what you're saying so the the actual city code is calling out where it's allowed then this table is saying something which may or may not then reflect what that city code is saying so in order to get the full picture you have to look all of these areas yeah you need I have a very secure job right now right right okay so then so that actually helps in in answering my question which was the accessory dwelling unit not exceeding 960 sare ft in and this is Administrative permit in the commercial Rural and the transitional commercial Ro and I was saying is that even necessary at this point in time with the new accessory dwelling update right so that that is one of my questions too in terms of the r commercial I can't think I think the idea was to theoretically allow like a live work unit so if it's long as if it was accessory to a um like a retail then why wouldn't we allow that that mean that is uh typically something you see in smaller communities and old style downtowns so um I think that was the reason why it was originally in the rural commercial area um and then yeah so I I think that would be why we would want to keep it or I think that's why it was um that's why it was established and then as far as whether or not we think that continues to make sense is definitely Up For Debate so okay but it would not be just null and void with the new changes we've made to the accessory dwelling unit ordinances through through the city code uh the changes we made did appli to the roal commercial as well right so then is that necessary is I guess that's what I'm trying to say like does one now NE you know what okay no okay so when we made those changes to the accessory we had to go District by District by District by District so I don't think it makes it so we did not then touch these two no we did touch these two remember it used to be an interim use permit and then we Chang it to permit yeah so that's so then I'm confused I'm sorry I so right right now it's as an admin permit so those reflecting the changes we made oh okay okay a I'm sorry no okay so it's not a straight I got you yep okay that answers my question fully and I apologize see every time I review it I just make it more confusing no no it's fine it's good to realize where things aren't making sense so um because it I'm sure you're not the only person confused by what is going on in our quote so I guess the one thing that kind of confuses me about this too is how do how do you determine what you want in the commercial rural transitional commercial rural versus your downtown I mean could some of these exist in both so in my personal opinion I think the difference is traffic for me A lot of times ability like I don't want to be necessarily uh so because rural commercial commercial R and transitional commercial R do not have City Water city sewer they need well and septic so then um I think that sometimes in and of itself says okay maybe a bakery doesn't make the most sense because they're going to be using a lot of water or some of them or car wash a car wash can't hold um the well can't support that or what have you but then I think also um in the because of that it requires a different land size a lot of times in order to accommodate a well and so then would it make sense to have some of these smaller uh businesses that you would have in your downtown mix use that can fit because they're they can have access to that water and uh sewer hookup they don't need as large of a lot size so then to say that um it wouldn't make sense to then say that uh same downtown mix use or general mix use could also be make sense on a larger I figured that's probably what it if there's anything else to add but I think that some of the and then walkability the downtown mixed use and the the general mixed use are supposed to be encouraging uh those are where the high density um multif family housing are and so then it's supposed to encourage this idea of being able to walk to work or walk to get your things done and I don't think that would make sense in the commercial rule the one thing in the commercial rule that I thought would make sense would be like the farmers market because it's usually a big space I mean people are just coming and putting up a stand there's really not any utilities required for it and there's a lot of people out in the rural commercial area who who have Gardens who grow who would you could put it along County Road 19 by the Public Works building and it would be on people's way to St Michael or something like that too because that's a well traveled Road they could just zip in get their stuff zip out actually right down on 55 and 19 if you're coming you know West from 5 5 you could turn right into there and then head out north on 19 and I always wished there was something there when I was working because it would be very convenient and a lot of people take that route so that I mean I think those areas would be ideal for people commuting from their jobs you know in Plymouth or city or wherever I mean everything was on my way home when I worked I mean basically because lived way out here so that or like an agricultural Co-op something like that to support small Market Farms I guess I'm I'm really I'd really love to see you know everybody talks about Kirk corkran retaining their rural identity and culture and things like that but how are how are we going to make that happen I mean if you one way to make it happen would be to make it affordable for Farmers young Farmers to come in to buy buy or lease property maybe lease with the ability to own it later on and then have somewhere to sell you know a co-op that supports them a deal with the school so they can provide fresh food to the school something like that um all these different services that could support that and it would be kind of unique it would make corkran unique I mean we don't want to be a Maple Grove we don't you know necessarily want to be a Rogers with all the big box stores and all the retail and many of many of those things are happening now they just aren't out there in the open so yeah and there's a number M there in the rural side that it's a constant change and that's another thing some way to kind of promote that not only to promote it within corkran but to promote it to say Hey you could buy land here and be a small Market farmer and these are the resources that our community would provide you that's not so much the that's that's said by the Market but there are Trail Haven and and 10 there is a a farm that's there that you can stop on a Tuesday and get stuff just ask the folks if you stop on a Wednesday they won't talk to you because they're loading up their trucks to take things to the Farmers Market on Thursday so they're out there it's just what farmers market do they bring it to downtown oh downtown okay yeah so I mean stuff is out there it's just the affordable farmland and stuff that's a whole another conversation there's there's Farmers that don't want to sell those kind of things and then tonight you saw a farmer um a change in they situation and stuff he's not his kids are hard pass away yep hard pass and uh the piece property that the house is on and the shed and everything is meticulously kept very nice place it's it's going to fit but nobody's going to find that land cheap anywhere so it's land is there a lot to go down that road so I will just add one thing that this use table of uses does not take into effect are some of those uses that are allowed in the rural residentials so farms in the rural residential are allowed to do a Farm Stand that's a that is a use they can do um and they're even they're even able to byass pass some of the sign requirements to be able to advertise for that um could we do more to make sure that we're making that we're um encouraging aggro businesses such as like a a winery that wants to do a wine tasting room that doesn't quite fit within our ordinances I think that there that's definitely room for discussion um but that's actually our rural residential district where you're going to see some of that because that's where the farming occurs and they typically want to do something on site um which is a little different from the rural commercial area but I do think that's part of a discussion that we need to have as a city yes yeah and the rural commercial would be more um businesses that support you know Farmers small Market Farmers or agriculture I appreciate your comments in the grou okay does anyone have anything else related to this topic no okay well hopefully we gave you some valuable feedback instead of just being confusing um and then do we have uh anything you want to call out specifically under the planning project update I don't believe so on my end um we already talked about the survey and um I believe I emailed you all so that you could participate and please pass the word since uh I have five responses on Tuesday and then I asked Parks Commission and Dwight to work with you and Jay worked with Council to get um to get the word out a bit more and I now I'm up to 15 just two days later so um I would love to get as much participation as possible so and that was for I sent it to all my neighbors so maybe that's that's at least 10 of them but I tried to post on The corkran Gazette Facebook page oh they don't like me they didn't they did not accept my post yeah they don't they don't tend to like anything City staff related is my understanding and I could be giving them a hard time but just from my brief understanding of that group they're very critical send it to me I'll get it on there okay that would be great and just it just as i' I've talked to a number of folks there and they are love that's where most of the people that love love the survey that was out there that's where most of those comments came from now oh from that well from people the other side of that that I'm going to say Get it is in the sharing of it just it it is an issue that needs to be understood so like I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to say that everybody doesn't have the right to participate in the survey because everybody should I just really encourage everybody to read thoroughly through the information given prior to taking the survey that is why the link is only accessible at the end yes that was intentional very intentional um so so I asked so I'm I'm part of bell weather right community and so I asked for that to be put on the Community Feed oh okay but but I haven't seen it yet okay so I'm not sure there's a lot of politics with get getting things on the community so I'm not sure if that's going to happen but I well I really appreciate it I really do helping you get the word out there I know Parks is also putting something laminated at the city park so that it was stand the weather um and we we try to put something on our own social media as well and there'll be one more reminder the Friday before it closes so yeah I think like a city of corkran post that's sharable on Facebook like people would then it is sorry okay perfect yeah and then you were supposed to receive a link already from Jay did you not get that I'm hoping to get on my computer all right perfect so then you should have a link to if you wanted to pass I'll share awesome well thank you physical flyers in like a store and a community center we did so there there the the what was mailed as to the 500 ft around that is that was what's laminated now at city park as far as continuing it I don't I'm actually like already over budget for the project so I just have to be I don't think you'd have to laminate it you could put it no it doesn't need to be laminated but actually each time we print something it actually we get charged cuz our printers are leased so it's more to it than you'd think we're using all of our free plus staff time issue that was part of the original goal well the um right in burville there would be a good place to put it at that gas station I don't know what the name of it is even now it was stormans it was little Jacks I don't even know what it is right now and it's close to my home but again the cost and publication is is high and we're just using social media to get get it out trying to keep cost down so because it is it is a deterrent from the original set of goals that Council had for this year so it's in it's an extra already sort of on top of that I think do you have an update for us I don't unless you guys got something again I I did appreciate the time with um Lindsay you said that's first one you've been to we've opened it up we all have busy schedules the volunteers don't get paid much and those most of us that do get paid are still volunteering a lot of our time but it your input is huge a quick email to the councel a quick email to Jay he'll share it with us email to Natalie she'll share with us your thoughts and ideas it doesn't have to come out of this this meeting to get to us at all does mean please send it I'm sorry go ahead does that mean that every time I communicate with Natalie she's sharing with everybody no no but if you were saying I'd like this to be included as part of the packet I can certainly do she'll get it in the packet and then we're we're we're starting something new in the next few weeks here um we're going to the the council is going to tablets the try and save some of our trees and stuff and then hopefully next year it's being talked about it' be nice if we could get tablets for you guys to eliminate the 458 page pack packets and stuffff and live updates those kind of things but we're we're starting it with the council first I mean I'd be happy to bring my own tablet too I love trees but I cannot do this on a digital platform I'm just going to say I am a paper person I you'll still be able to print it up yourself those kind of things but we we've got to do something the last time um the last council meeting it was one bolt of paper per packet that went out to us and it's a huge cost and to go to tablets it's a huge savings but also you can still print it out if you want if we go tablets though would it be something like acrobat where they have markup tools that's I to say as a part of the update there's a gr it's being rolled out with granicus so there is a note taking feature um so the Planning Commission at this time there's no definite roll out of tablets so I don't think you need to worry about it right now but you will have access to granicus my understanding is fairly soon so you can start trying out to see if it's something that's workable yeah I hear you I just am not a uh like the amount of time spent uh staring at screens is just not good for my aging eyes yeah I'm going to be honest like I'm zooming in and I'm like I just don't the same comprehension but I appreciate it and I'm not unwilling to try new things and I have no expectation that uh I'd be accommodated the one thing I would want to and I know it's still going to be available on the dis uh or out of the packet but I just want to make sure too that things remain accessible for every resident who would live here regardless that'll still be there is the city going to have to purchase the tablets or do they already own them so there were tablets purchased for council at this point and the cost of the tablets are we're actually going to save money by not printing the packets anymore well cuz I I work at Microsoft so and I know we have like nonprofit and government stuff so I was going to say if you ever want talk we we have tablets I'll bring that up with J maybe explore that if but if they're already bought perfect great the ones with the commission definitely have not been bought so it might be a discussion for next year's sure budget so great keep that in mind don't don't want anybody felt left out I'm like B I'd rather have documents but I'm getting real tired of seeing all these pieces of paper going my recycle and stuff yeah so I'll I'll Flex a little yeah so otherwise um anything you guys have for us I'll do my best um we had an event happen yesterday I wanted to thank our our staff the police department stuff for what happened and all of the local vicinities all of the local um what am I trying to say police departments First Responders first respond everybody that did this and uh the outcome is there and I hope the person recovers so um no shots fired no nothing but it was a long drawn out process so yeah there have been multiple ones in corate recently inconvenienced a lot of the neighbors out there but again our our Police Department is doing a really good job and all the surrounding communities jumped all over it I think five four different SWAT groups came in a lot of stuff so it's a reason we're first or second safe community of Minnesota is it was ran well so um don't want to get down on something like that but there's a lot of good that came out of that um everything else that's going on check the list of stuff that's coming up um your guys' input is valued Natalie D thank you guys very very much and uh like I said already that survey has got a lot of compliments from even some of the most critical people yeah so then last thing is to just and I won't go through the commissioner liaison calendar too intensely because the hope is that we would have another commissioner next month um which would alter that and so I'm realizing but lanterman is on there so that's what I was going to say is that I would just at this point in time plan on doing the July 11th um in in place of lanterman and then we can um tuck in uh the new person probably for in between Lind and Hargreaves when and if we I believe we've gotten three applicants or four you know I have not gotten the latest update for and we're trying to do those interviews um this week and early next to be able to appoint somebody Co next Council so so Mark did go on to the city council yes yep he was sworn in last how long is the application open or is it closed already um you know I should hear it's on the oh I can look no worries I'm just curious okay but if nobody needs to make an immediate change to those first two meetings then I will uh entertain a motion to adjourn tonight's meeting and then we can wrap things up I'll make a motion to adjourn I suck it all right all those in favor say hi hi okay all those opposed all right turn