Here is the transcript with speaker names added based on the roll call and contextual cues within the discussion. [0:30] **Chair Meyer**: GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. I CALL TO ORDER THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION FOR TUESDAY APRIL 23RD, 2024. AT THIS TIME I ASK CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL. [0:47] **City Clerk**: COUNCIL MEMBER BAXLEY. >> **Commissioner Baxley**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: CHOWDHURY IS ABSENT. CAMPBELL. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: CONNELLY. >> **Commissioner Connelly**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: EMERICK. ABSENT. JONES. >> **Commissioner Jones**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: M MEYER. [1:05] **Chair Meyer**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: OLSON. >> **Commissioner Olson**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: THOMPSON. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: WAGNER. >> **Commissioner Wagner**: HERE. >> **City Clerk**: WE HAVE EIGHT MEMBERS PRESENT. >> **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT A QUORUM IS PRESENT. WITH THAT WE'LL PROCEED TO THE AGENDA, A COPY OF WHICH WAS POSTED FOR PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. [1:24] **Chair Meyer**: WE WILL BEGIN OF ACCEPTANCE OF THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF APRIL 8TH, 2024. MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES? >> **Commissioner Baxley**: SO MOVED. >> **Chair Meyer**: IS THERE A SECOND? >> **Commissioner**: SECOND. >> **Chair Meyer**: ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ABSTENTIONS? THAT CARRIES. [1:40] **Chair Meyer**: WE NOW MOVE TO THE ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA. SO THERE ARE COPIES OF IT OVER ON THE TABLE THERE IF ANYONE NEEDS ONE. ALSO AVAILABLE ONLINE AT LIMBS.MINNEAPOLIS.GOV. [2:00] **Chair Meyer**: I'M GOING TO READ THROUGH THE ADDRESSES AND STATE WHETHER SLATED FOR CONSENT, CONTINUANCE, RETURN, WITHDRAWAL OR DISCUSSION. CONSENT ITEMS ARE THOSE THAT WILL BE PASSED WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD. WE WILL BE ADHERING TO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION LISTED ON THE AGENDA ITEM AS THE RECOMMENDED MOTION SECTION. [2:21] **Chair Meyer**: APPLICABLE CONDITIONS, THEY WILL BE LISTED IN THE SAME SECTION. IF YOU AGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION, INCLUDING ANY APPLICABLE CONDITIONS YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING. THE COMMISSION WILL PASS IT AS RECOMMENDED. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOLLOWING THE DECISION, YOU CAN CHECK IN WITH THE STAFF MEMBER ASSIGNED TO THAT ITEM. [2:38] **Chair Meyer**: IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION, INDICATE THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THE ITEMS. AND WE CAN PUT THEM ON THE DISCUSSION AGENDA. WITH THAT WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS. [2:58] **Chair Meyer**: THE FIRST ITEM IS A PUBLIC LAND SALE ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA AND DOES NOT HAVE ANY PUBLIC HEARING. AVENUE SOUTHEAST, RECOMMENDED FOR CONSENT AGENDA, ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS ITEM, ITEM 5, 515 TENTH AVENUE SOUTHEAST. [3:22] **Chair Meyer**: THAT WILL BE ON CONSENT. ITEM NUMBER 6, 4099 SOUTH NINTH STREET. RECOMMENDED FOR CONSENT. ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST ITEM NUMBER 6? PUT THAT ON CONSENT AS WELL. ITEM NUMBER 7, ZONING CODE TEXT AMENDMENT REGARDING FEES FOR LAND USE APPLICATION FEES AND SIGN PERMIT FEES. [3:43] **Chair Meyer**: ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS ITEM? ALL RIGHT. I'LL PUT THAT ON CONSENT AS WELL. WE ALSO HAVE GOT A DISCUSSION FOR NUMBER 8 AND WILL BE DISCUSSING THAT. [3:59] **Chair Meyer**: ALL RIGHT, SO THEN OUR AGENDA WOULD BE TO ADOPT ITEMS 4, 5, 6 AND 7 ON CONSENT. AND TO DISCUSS NUMBER 8. COULD I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS AMENDED? [4:15] **Commissioner Baxley**: SO MOVE >> **Commissioner**: SECOND? >> **Commissioner**: SECOND. >> **Chair Meyer**: ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [ AYES RESPOND ] >> OPPOSED? ABSTAIN? AGENDA IS ADOPTED. WE'LL FIRST MOVE TO ITEM NUMBER 4, WHICH IS PUBLIC LAND SALE, AND IS RATTANA HERE TO PRESENT THAT? [4:39] **Chair Meyer**: WAS THERE DISCUSSION ABOUT IT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND APPROVE ITEM 4 SEPARATELY, SINCE THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT ONE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [ AYES RESPOND ] OPPOSED? [4:57] **Chair Meyer**: ITEM 4 IS ADOPTED. NOW WE MOVE TO THE REST OF OUR CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS, ITEMS 5, 6 AND 7. ANY COMMENT OR DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CONSENT AGENDA? I DO JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE NOTE ABOUT ITEM NUMBER 7, REITERATING SOMETHING WE DISCUSSED IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. [5:20] **Chair Meyer**: SO THESE ARE ADJUSTMENTS TO OUR FEES, AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE A PRETTY SHARP INCREASE BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T INCREASED FOR INFLATION FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE WE BROUGHT UP THE QUESTION, WHY IS IT THAT WE DON'T JUST HAVE A GRADUAL INFLATION ADJUSTMENT EACH YEAR AND APPARENTLY THAT IS BECAUSE OF STATUTE. [5:39] **Chair Meyer**: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO DRAW SOME PUBLIC ATTENTION TO THAT AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO FIX, SOMETHING THAT COULD BE RECOMMENDED TO BE ADDED TO THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE AGENDA. BECAUSE I DO THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE GRADUAL INCREASES THAT MATCH INFLATION RATHER THAN A BIG SHARP INCREASE ALL AT ONCE. [5:59] **Chair Meyer**: SO I WANTED TO ADD THAT COMMENT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA BEFORE WE GO FORWARD? ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING OUR CONSENT AGENDA. >> **Commissioner Olson**: CHAIR MEYER, JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, MAYBE I MISSED IT, DID WE OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THOSE? [6:16] **Chair Meyer**: EXCUSE ME, NO, SORRY. >> **Commissioner Olson**: THANK YOU. >> **Chair Meyer**: I WILL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO COME AND SPEAK ABOUT IT? NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO SAY WHATEVER YOU WOULD LIKE ABOUT IT. [6:32] **Chair Meyer**: ALL RIGHT. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC AGENDA -- THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL RIGHT. SEEING NO FURTHER COMMENT -- >> **Commissioner Baxley**: DO WE NEED A MOTION? >> **Chair Meyer**: WE DO. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA -- APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? [6:48] **Commissioner Baxley**: YES, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT ITEMS 5, 6, AND 7 ON CONSENT. >> **Chair Meyer**: IS THERE A SECOND? >> **Commissioner**: SECOND. >> **Chair Meyer**: ANY DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [ AYES RESPOND ] OPPOSED? [7:04] **Chair Meyer**: ABSTENTIONS? THAT CARRIES. NOW WE MOVE TO ITEM NUMBER 8. THIS IS A PROPOSED PROJECT AT 2027 EAST FRANKLIN AVENUE. THERE WILL NOT BE A PUBLIC HEARING. THIS IS DISCUSSION ONLY. [7:22] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff)**: THIS IS A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ITEM. I KNOW YOU CANCELED YOUR COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING, SO THANK YOU FOR ACCOMMODATING THIS ITEM THIS EVENING, AS I WILL BE OUT OF TOWN. SO THIS IS THE -- I JUST WANT TO SIT IF THAT'S OKAY. [7:38] **Hillary Dvorak**: I'VE NEVER PRESENTED UP HERE. AND I'M COLD SO I'M WEARING MY JACKET, SO I APOLOGIZE. THIS IS THE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD OF MINNEAPOLIS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A NEW WELLNESS CLINIC ON THE SITE AT 2027 EAST FRANKLIN AVENUE, SITE ON CM3 COMMUNITY MIXED USE DISTRICT AND LOCATED IN TRANSIT 20 BELT OVERLAY DISTRICT WHICH HAS MINIMUM FAR REQUIREMENT OF 2.0 AND MINIMUM HEIGHT REQUIREMENT OF SIX STORIES OR 84 FEET. [8:09] **Hillary Dvorak**: THE SITE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS THIS VACANT SITE LOCATED ALONG 21ST AVENUE AND EAST FRANKLIN. THE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD ALSO OWNS THE SITE LOCATED HERE UP ALONG CEDAR, AND THEN THERE IS A PARKING LOT HERE ON THE CORNER, AND THEN THEY HAVE ANOTHER CLINIC IN THIS LOCATION. [8:29] **Hillary Dvorak**: SO THEY HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A CAMPUS-LIKE ENVIRONMENT IN THIS TWO-BLOCK STRETCH OF FRANKLIN AVENUE. THEY ARE PROPOSING A THREE-STORY WELLNESS CLINIC. THIS WILL BE MEDICAL AND DENTAL SPECIFICALLY. [8:46] **Hillary Dvorak**: AND THE ONE QUESTION THAT WE HAVE FOR YOU TONIGHT OR THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU, THAT CPED WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU IS THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING AND THEY WILL BE NEEDING A VARIANCE TO REDUCE THE MINIMUM HEIGHT FROM SIX STORIES DOWN TO THREE. [9:01] **Hillary Dvorak**: THEY DID ORIGINALLY COME IN WITH A BUILDING THAT DID NOT MEET THE MINIMUM FAR, AND I CAN SAY THAT THROUGH OUR CONVERSATIONS OVER THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS THEY HAVE INCREASED THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING BY JUST UNDER 4,000 SQUARE FEET TO GET TO THAT MINIMUM FAR OF 2.0, BUT THAT AMOUNT OF BULK TO GET TO THE MINIMUM FAR DID NOT GET TO AN ADDITIONAL THREE STORIES IN THE BUILDING HEIGHT. [9:25] **Hillary Dvorak**: SO BEFORE THEY APPLY AND COME TO THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, THEY WANTED TO -- WE WANTED TO COME BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING AS PART OF A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE DISCUSSION ITEM -- PART OF THE COMMITTEE OF A WHOLE DISCUSSION ITEM. [9:42] **Hillary Dvorak**: AND I CAN CONCLUDE HERE. AND THE APPLICANTS ARE HERE AND I WILL GET TO THE RENDERINGS. THIS INTERFACE IS DIFFERENT, SO I'M JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT HERE FOR Y'ALL TONIGHT. BUT I WILL CONCLUDE WITH THAT. IT WAS A VERY BRIEF MEMO. WE JUST HAVE THE ONE QUESTION TO DISCUSS. [9:59] **Hillary Dvorak**: SO I WILL STAND FOR QUESTIONS OR SIT, I GUESS, AS I AM RIGHT NOW, AND THEN THE APPLICANTS CAN ALSO COME UP AND PRESENT AS WELL. >> **Chair Meyer**: QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR STAFF? MR. THOMPSON. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: YES, THANK YOU. [10:16] **Commissioner Thompson**: JUST TWO RELATIVELY SIMPLE, BECAUSE I'M A NEWBIE, WHAT DOES FAR STAND FOR. >> **Hillary Dvorak**: THE FLOOR AREA RATIO. IT IS THE AMOUNT OF BULK OF THE BUILDING TO THE SIZE OF THE SITE. IF YOU HAD A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT SITE, FOR EXAMPLE, FAR OF 1 WOULD BE A ONE-STORY 10,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING OR TWO-STORY, 5,000 PER FLOOR PLATE. [10:39] **Hillary Dvorak**: SO TO MEET THAT MINIMUM.. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: THAT'S MY SECOND QUESTION. WHY A MINIMUM? I'M GUESSING THIS IS PART OF THE COMP PLAN THAT I DON'T KNOW YET. WHAT IS THE LOGIC BEHIND THAT? JUST SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ASK IS. >> **Hillary Dvorak**: WE ARE WITHIN THE CORRIDOR AT FRANKLIN, AND SO -- AND THEN ALSO MULTIPLE HIGH DENSITY TRANSIT ROUTES. [11:04] **Hillary Dvorak**: BUT THIS AREA HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AS A TRANSIT 20 TO INCREASE THE DENSITY AROUND THE TRANSIT STATION. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: OKAY, SO MINIMUM SIX, MAXIMUM WOULD BE WHAT? >> **Hillary Dvorak**: 20 WITH THE ABILITY TO GO TO 30. WITH PREMIUMS. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: OKAY. [11:19] **Commissioner Thompson**: THAT'S REALLY ALL I NEEDED TO KNOW. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> **Hillary Dvorak**: YOU'RE WELCOME. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: THANK YOU, MR. MEYER. I HAVE A QUESTION TO FOLLOW UP ON THOMPSON'S QUESTION, THE FAR, ACTUALLY -- I WAS LOOKING OVER THIS BEFORE AND DIDN'T NOTICE THE MINIMUM FAR REQUIREMENT. [11:38] **Commissioner Campbell**: WOULD YOU SAY A SIX-STORY BUILDING IS AROUND 2.0 FAR? THAT FEELS A LITTLE BIT LOW. WOULD YOU SAY -- I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PHRASE THIS QUESTION. IT SEEMS LIKE MOST SIX-STORY BUILDINGS WOULD BE HIGHER THAN A 2.0 FAR? IS THAT FAIR OR MISGUIDED? [11:55] **Commissioner Campbell**: AND I GUESS MAYBE AS A FOLLOW-UP, HERE IS MY QUESTION... WHY WAS THE 2.0 FAR THRESHOLD SET IN COMPARISON TO THE 6.0 HEIGHT THRESHOLD? >> **Hillary Dvorak**: I CAN TRY TO ANSWER THAT TOO. STAFF DID DO ANALYSIS ON PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECTS WHEN ADOPTING THE BUILT FORM REGULATIONS TO ACTUALLY ANALYZE WHAT THE FLOOR AREA RATIOS TYPICALLY LOOKED LIKE FOR SIX-STORY BUILDINGS, FOUR-STORY BUILDINGS, SO IT WAS DEFINITELY AN INFORMED ANALYSIS THAT GOT US TO WHERE WE ARE. [12:23] **Commissioner Campbell**: THANKS. >> **Commissioner Jones**: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION AND ESPECIALLY THE PREEMPTIVE PRESENTATION. [12:39] **Commissioner Jones**: I'M REALLY FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA, AND I THINK A THREE-STORY BUILDING WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. I'M NOT OPPOSED TO SIX-STORY, BUT I JUST -- TO A SIX STORY, BUT I THINK THE LOCATION AND SORT OF THE USES AROUND IT WOULD BE REALLY CONSISTENT WITH A THREE-STORY BUILDING, AND I APPRECIATE THE DENSITY AND YOU KNOW, WANTING TO ENCOURAGE DENSITY AROUND TRANSIT CORRIDORS, BUT THIS IS NOT A RESIDENTIAL DENSITY BUT COMMERCIAL FOR -- ESPECIALLY IF IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE CAMPUS THAT THE ORGANIZATION HAS SORT OF ALREADY DEVELOPED IN THAT AREA. THANK YOU. [13:19] **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU. CAN YOU REVIEW -- WE HAD A FEW OTHER PROJECTS THAT AT LEAST ONE THAT I RECALL, THAT WE REJECTED. CAN YOU REVIEW THE HISTORY OF PROJECTS LIKE THAT? [13:36] **Chair Meyer**: THERE WAS ONE ON UNIVERSITY AVENUE. >> **Hillary Dvorak**: THAT WAS THE ONE I WAS THINKING OF, A TEN-STORY MINIMUM AND THEY PROPOSED A SEVEN-STORY BUILDING, SEVEN, I BELIEVE IT WAS, YEAH, FIVE OVER TWO, AND THAT WAS DENIED THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE COME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT FOR THAT SITE YET. [13:55] **Chair Meyer**: OKAY. AND THERE WERE NO HEIGHT MINIMUMS BEFORE THE 20/40 PLAN, IS THAT CORRECT? IS THIS A NEW THING? >> **Hillary Dvorak**: THAT IS CORRECT. UNDER THE OLD ZONING CODE THE SITE HAD A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF FOUR STORIES, AND WITH ADOPTION OF 2040 IT WENT TO MINIMUM HEIGHT OF SIX. [14:17] **Commissioner Olson**: WHAT WAS THE -- MAYBE I SHOULD KNOW THIS. WHY DID WE CHOOSE TO TALK ABOUT A VARIANCE VERSUS A REZONING? [14:33] **Hillary Dvorak**: I THINK PART OF THE CONVERSATION THERE WAS THIS AREA, GIVEN ITS PROXIMITY TO TRANSIT YOU KNOW, WAS A RELATIVELY CLEAR LINE TO THE BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICT THAT WAS APPLIED HERE. SO IT WOULD BE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT, AND THEN A REZONING, IF THEY WANTED TO CHANGE IT. [14:54] **Hillary Dvorak**: THAT'S A PRETTY LENGTHY ROBUST PROCESS. A LOT OF TIMES THE VARIANCE IS A FASTER ROUTE, AND IF WE DON'T THINK WE CAN SUPPORT THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT WAS A DISCUSSION HERE THAT -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN SUPPORT EITHER APPLICATION, BUT THIS WAS THE PATH FORWARD. [15:20] **Hillary Dvorak**: GIVEN THE APPLICANTS CAME AND THEY WANTED TO -- THEY DO OR STILL DO WANT -- YOU KNOW, WHEN OUR PREAPPLICATION MEETING HAPPENED, THEY WANTED TO START CONSTRUCTION IN JULY, SO A COMP PLAN PROCESS WOULD NOT FIT WITHIN THAT TIME FRAME, SO THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO REQUEST THE VARIANCE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. [15:43] **Hillary Dvorak**: THROUGH THAT AND THE COUNCIL PROCESS. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: HILLARY, YOU HAVE TO FORGIVE ME FOR THE QUESTION, BECAUSE I CAN'T REMEMBER SOME OF THE WORDS I NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION, I SHOULD PROBABLY KNOW THE ANSWER THIS. [15:59] **Commissioner Campbell**: IN PAST VARIANCE REQUESTS, WE HAVE HAD TO COME UP WITH I THINK CONDITIONS. WHAT IS THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR? SOMETHING ELSE THOUGH... >> **Hillary Dvorak**: UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: SOME SORT OF UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE, DOES THAT APPLY HERE? >> **Hillary Dvorak**: YES, WE WILL NEED TO FIND A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE AS TO WHY THE BUILDING SHOULD BE THREE VERSUS SIX. [16:16] **Commissioner Campbell**: SO IN YOUR OPINION, HAVING WORKED WITH THE FOLKS LOOKING TO BUILD HERE, HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED ANY UNIQUE CONDITIONS OF THE SITE THAT WOULD GIVE US -- >> **Hillary Dvorak**: I THINK WHAT I SHOULD DO IS ASK THE APPLICANTS TO COME UP, BECAUSE THEY DID SEND ME A MEMO TODAY THAT THEY DID GO THROUGH THE FINDINGS AND I APOLOGIZE, I JUST GOT IT, I WAS IN MEETINGS THIS AFTERNOON, SO I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO FORWARD IT, BUT THEY COULD GIVE IT TO YOU. [16:43] **Hillary Dvorak**: THEY HAVE DIFFERENT COPIES. SO YOU CAN HAVE IT EITHER FOR TODAY OR FOR THE FUTURE. BUT, I MEAN, THE SITE IS SOMEWHAT UNIQUELY SHAPED, BUT IT'S -- I DON'T -- THE NEXUS BETWEEN A UNIQUELY SHAPED SITE AND THE HEIGHT OF A BUILDING TO ME IS -- I CAN'T FIND IT. [17:03] **Hillary Dvorak**: I -- YOU KNOW, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION -- I DON'T KNOW IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS HAD THIS DISCUSSION BEFORE, AND I REMEMBER THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ONE ON UNIVERSITY, I DON'T RECALL, THOUGH, LIKE IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION THOUGHT OF UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR HEIGHT VARIANCE REQUESTS. [17:20] **Hillary Dvorak**: MAYBE NOT THAT SITE, BUT JUST IN GENERAL, BUT NOT SITE SPECIFIC. BUT IN THIS CASE THAT WOULD -- I'M FINDING A HARD TIME -- I'M HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING THAT NEXUS, SO... BUT THE APPLICANTS DO HAVE THEIR FINDINGS WRITTEN OUT. SO IF YOU -- >> **Chair Meyer**: LET'S HEAR FROM THE APPLICANTS. [17:40] **Hillary Dvorak**: I WILL LET THEM SPEAK AND I CAN HAND OUT THE APPLICATIONS. I WILL... I WILL LET THEM INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. [17:57] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: THIS IS MY NOTES, I'M SORRY. >> **Chair Meyer**: IF YOU CAN TELL US YOUR NAMES AND THEN YOU CAN GIVE US YOUR FULL PRESENTATION IF YOU WOULD LIKE . >> **Dr. Patrick Rock**: THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR HEARING ME. MY NAME IS DR. PATRICK ROCK, I'M A FAMILY PHYSICIAN, ALSO THE CEO OF THE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD. [18:20] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: I'M AN ENROLLEE AND BEEN WITH THE HEALTH BOARD GOING ON 27TH YEAR OF SERVING SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. SO THE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD, JUST A VERY BRIEF HISTORY, INDIAN HEALTH BOARD HAS BEEN A PARTNER WITH THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS FOR A LONG TIME, OVER 50 YEARS. [18:43] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND WE HAVE PROVIDED HEALTHCARE SERVICES, DENTAL SERVICES, AND COUNSELING AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES TO THE PHILLIPS AND SEWARD, AND REALLY A LARGE POPULATION THAT WE DRAW FROM, ACTUALLY SEVERAL COMMUNITIES SURROUNDING US IN TWIN CITIES. [19:04] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: WE DO HAVE A GROUP OF FOLKS THAT COME AND SEE US FROM ST. PAUL, SO THERE'S REALLY NO INDIGENOUS CLINICS IN ST. PAUL. SO WE ACTUALLY PROVIDE A LOT OF SERVICES THAT ARE FAR-REACHING, NOT JUST TO THE LOCAL AREA. [19:20] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: ONE OF THE REASONS WE CURRENTLY EXIST AT 1315 EAST 24TH STREET. WE HAVE RECOGNIZED PRETTY EARLY A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH OUR CURRENT LOCATION, WHICH WE OWN OUTRIGHT, WE HAVE OPERATED OUT OF THAT LOCATION FOR QUITE SOME TIME. [19:38] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND ONE WAS JUST THE LACK OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AROUND OUR FACILITY. WE ARE SLOWLY LOSING PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. WE USED TO HAVE A BUS LINE IN FRONT OF OUR BUILDING, RIGHT ON EAST 24TH STREET, WHERE THE OLD DEACONESS HOSPITAL USED TO BE, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THAT. [19:57] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO THAT WAS -- WE HAVE LIVED WITH THAT FOR SEVERAL YEARS. WE HAVE INCREASED OUR TRANSPORTATION SERVICES. AND THEN WE ALSO NOTICED THAT WE WERE MORE RECESSED, RECESSED MORE IN THAT RESIDENTIAL AREA, WHERE WE EXIST RIGHT NOW. [20:13] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND SO WE RAPIDLY FOUND OUT THAT WE NEEDED TO IMPROVE OUR ACCESS TO SERVICES WITHIN OUR POPULATION, AND ALSO STAY VERY CLOSE TO THE LITTLE EARTH RESIDENTS LOCATION. [20:30] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: WE DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE OUR IDENTITY. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE WERE CLOSE. AND ANOTHER DRAW THAT WAS, OF COURSE, FOR EAST FRANKLIN -- FRANKLIN AVENUE WAS TERMED AS THE AMERICAN INDIAN INDIGENOUS CORRIDOR AT ONE POINT IN TIME. SO WE WANT TO BE ON THE CORRIDOR RIGHT? [20:49] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO WE FELT THAT THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT CONNECTION FOR US. ACTUALLY, ONE OF THE MORE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF PHILOSOPHIES THAT WE TAKE THIS IS THAT WELLNESS IS, OF COURSE, WHAT WE -- WELLNESS IS CONNECTED TO TRADITION, BUT TRADITION IS CONNECTED TO LAND. [21:11] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN A VERY LAND-BASED PEOPLE. SO LAND IS A BIG DEAL FOR US. AND HAVING SOVEREIGNTY OR REALLY AS SELF-DETERMINED CONCEPTS AS FAR AS LAND. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. [21:26] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND SO WE APPROACH WELLNESS IN THAT PERSPECTIVE. AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE BEEN IN EXISTENCE WELL OVER 50 YEARS, AND ACTUALLY THE URBAN INDIAN HEALTH MOVEMENT STARTED HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS, WHICH IS A FANTASTIC THING. CURRENTLY THERE'S 41 URBAN HEALTH ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. [21:51] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: WE GET FUNDING THROUGH THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE AND GET TITLE V OF THE HEALTHCARE IMPROVEMENT ACT, ABUTTED TO AND ADJOINED TO THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. AND SO IT'S POMP INDEPENDENT, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR -- PROMINENT AND IMPORTANT FOR OUR PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE IMPORTANT HEALTHCARE SERVICES. [22:13] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: THE VALUE THAT WE BRING, I THINK JUST GOING BACK ON RECENT HISTORY AND REMEMBRANCE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, FOR EVERYBODY, WAS COVID-19. AND WE REALLY HAD AN IMPORTANT IMPACT ON COVID-19 WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. [22:29] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: WE ACTUALLY FACILITATED A LOT OF VACCINE TESTING AND TREATMENT WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. SO WE HAVE BECOME AN ESSENTIAL HEALTHCARE PROVIDER WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. AND SO WE HAVE ENVISIONED THIS CAMPUS AS REALLY A NEXT PART OR NEXT GENESIS FOR US TO MAINTAIN AND IMPROVE ACCESS AND TO EXPAND OUR SERVICES WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. [22:58] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO THINGS LIKE TRADITIONAL HEALING, WHICH ASK A LARGE CONCEPT OF WHAT WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD TODAY. I ALSO HAVE A COUPLE OF FOLKS FROM OUR ARCHITECTS WHO HAVE BEEN ACTUALLY PART OF OUR PROCESS FOR -- I WOULD SAY WELL OVER SIX OR SEVEN YEARS NOW. [23:19] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST KIND OF SPRUNG UP YESTERDAY. IT'S BEEN KIND OF SOMETHING IN OUR PROCESS OF THINKING. WE ACTUALLY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN 2015 WHEN THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT WAS AT LESS THAN FOUR STORIES. AND SO AS OUR PROCESS CONTINUED, WE, OF COURSE, NOW -- THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. [23:38] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: COME TO FIND OUT THERE IS A NEW ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE TO ACCOMPLISH. AND I JUST WANT TO YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE CORRIDOR THAT WE'RE NOT SPACING THEM OUT OR, ESPECIALLY WITH A HEALTHCARE FACILITY. [23:58] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: ACTUALLY I THINK IT WILL ACTUALLY COMPLEMENT A LOT OF THE DENSITY ISSUES THAT YOU GUYS HAVE BROUGHT UP AS FAR AS THE ACTUAL BUILDING IS CONCERNED. BUT I'M GOING TO TURN THINGS OVER TO KIND OF GIVE YOU -- TALK AWAY THROUGH THE VARIANCES SPECIFICALLY AND TURN THINGS OVER TO MIKE. [24:17] **Mike (Architect)**: GOOD AFTERNOON, MY NAME IS MIKE, PRINCIPAL AT DSW ARCHITECTS AND I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH DR. ROCK SINCE 2015. I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MY BUSINESS PARTNER AND HE'S GOING TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF AND TALK ABOUT THE ORDINANCES AND TESTS THAT WE THINK WE HAVE KIND OF MET SOME OF THOSE TESTS TO THIS, AND I KNOW HE'S GOT TO RUN BECAUSE HE HAS TO CATCH A FLIGHT. [24:43] **Mike (Architect)**: I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO HIM RIGHT AWAY, AND I'LL FOLLOW UP AFTER THAT. >> **Ryan Turner**: MY NAME IS RYAN TURNER, HEALTHCARE ARCHITECT WITH DSW AND AS MIKE MENTIONED ONE OF THE BUSINESS PARTNERS. I'LL SPEAK TO THE SPECIFICS OF THE CLINIC ITSELF. [24:58] **Ryan Turner**: AND I THINK IT WAS MAYBE COMMENTED ON A LITTLE EARLIER ABOUT HOW WE HAVE WORKED REALLY WELL WITH HILLARY, GOING BACK AND FORTH, REACTING TO HER COMMENTS, AND I'LL SAY THAT IHB HAS BEEN VERY COURAGEOUS AND TAKING BIG STEPS FORWARD TO MEET ALL THE NEW SET OF RULES THAT WE, OF COURSE, STARTED WORKING UNDER LAST JULY. [25:24] **Ryan Turner**: THE BIGGEST OF WHICH WAS TOUCHED ON ALREADY, THE FAR REQUIREMENT. HONESTLY, TAKING A COURAGEOUS STEP TO BUILD EXCESS SQUARE FOOTAGE IN ADDITION TO WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY PROGRAMMED SO THEY CAN MEET THAT REQUIREMENT AND TRY TO MEET YOU WHERE YOU ARE. [25:39] **Ryan Turner**: THE ONE VARIANCE REQUEST, AGAIN, IS THE HEIGHT THAT WE'RE ASKING DIRECTION ON TODAY. AND WHAT I'LL SAY, JUST PROGRAMMATICALLY OPERATIONALLY TO HAVE THIS SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A CLINIC THAT MEETS THE DENSITY YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, BUT TO TURN AROUND AND MAKE THAT FLOOR PLATE STRETCH THROUGH SIX STORIES WOULD MAKE IT OPERATIONALLY INEFFICIENT AND FRANKLY WOULDN'T FUNCTION THE WAY IT IS INTENDED IF YOU WERE TO SHRINK THOSE FLOOR PLATES AND HAVE TWICE AS MANY OF THEM. [26:15] **Ryan Turner**: SO THAT'S ONE THING SPECIFICALLY I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE TOUCHED ON, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE COMING HERE TO ASK THAT TODAY. SO I HOPE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO JUST TAKE BRIEFLY A LOOK AT THE PACKET THAT WAS HANDED OUT. [26:33] **Ryan Turner**: NOT EXPECTING YOU HAVE READ IT WORD FOR WORD HERE, BUT TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT, IF YOU HEAD TO PAGE 6 AND 7, YOU WILL SEE THE IMAGES. THERE IS AN AERIAL THAT I WILL JUST TOUCH ON FIRST. AND IT LENDS ITSELF TO THE POINT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS CURRENT NEIGHBORHOOD, I BELIEVE IT WILL MEET THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THIS LOCALITY, AND THE USE HERE, THE BUILDINGS THAT YOU SEE ON THIS MAP ARE KIND OF COLOR CODED. [27:11] **Ryan Turner**: YOU CAN SEE THAT WE HAVE THE BLUE, WHICH ARE OUR NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES THAT ARE THREE STORIES OR LESS. WE HAVE THE ORANGE WHICH ARE FOUR TO FIVE STORIES, AND YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL OF BUILDINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THIS AREA THAT ARE SIX STORIES. [27:28] **Ryan Turner**: BUT WHERE OUR SITE IS, KIND OF RIGHT DEAD CENTER, AT THE VERY END OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN CULTURAL CORRIDOR, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS BEING AN ANCHOR TO THAT CORRIDOR, AND YOU WILL SEE IT IS GOING TO BE A THREE-STORY BUILDING AMONGST OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE THREE STORIES OR LESS. [27:47] **Ryan Turner**: JUST FOR REFERENCE. THE OTHER IMAGE YOU SEE ON PAGE 7 IS JUST THE MAP SHOWING THE CURRENT AREAS. WE, OF COURSE, ARE KIND OF CENTER RIGHT ON THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN THAT HAS MINIMUM SIX STORIES. [28:10] **Ryan Turner**: AND YOU CAN SEE THAT WE HAVE GOT NEIGHBORING AREAS THAT ARE A MINIMUM OF TWO STORIES AND MAXIMUM OF TWO AND A HALF TO THREE. SO, AGAIN, IT JUST LENDS ITSELF TO, I HOPE, THIS BUILDING BEING SOMETHING THAT FITS IN WITH, YOU KNOW, THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. [28:28] **Ryan Turner**: I GUESS THAT IS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE. SO THE OTHER PIECE THAT I JUST WANTED TO TOUCH ON QUICKLY, THE THREE AREAS THAT WE WANTED TO ADDRESS, YOU WILL SEE THAT MR. CAMPBELL ALLUDED TO, WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT HAVING A BASIS TO REQUEST A VARIANCE AND WE TOUCHED ON ALL THREE OF THOSE HERE. [28:56] **Ryan Turner**: THE CHALLENGES THAT EXIST IN COMPLYING WITH THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE -- AND THEN NUMBER TWO, THE AUTHORIZED APPLICANT PROPOSES THE PROPERTY IN A REASONABLE MANNER THAT WILL BE KEEPING WITH THE SPIRIT INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE AND COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND WE KIND OF WALK THROUGH A NUMBER OF POINTS RELATED TO THAT, AND THEN FINALLY THE ONE TOUCHED ON WITH THE IMAGES WILL NOT ALTER THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER HERE. [29:23] **Ryan Turner**: SO WITH THAT SAID, LIKE I SAID, I APOLOGIZE THAT I'M SHORT ON TIME PERSONALLY, BUT I WILL PUT YOU BACK IN MIKE'S FAITHFUL HANDS AND JUST THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION TODAY. >> **Mike (Architect)**: THANKS, RYAN. CATCH YOUR PLANE. >> SO I THINK WE HAVE TRIED TO GAME THIS OUT AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND KIND OF TESTING THAT WE MEET THOSE CHALLENGES. [29:45] **Mike (Architect)**: AND SO ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS, TOO, THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR FUTURE REFERENCE, MR. MEYER, THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO BRING UP TO THE COMMISSION IS IF YOU GO TO THE LAST PAGE AND GO TO 4 (B) (I), IF YOU LOOK AT THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR, THAT CORRIDOR IS POPULATED BY A LOT OF AMERICAN INDIAN NON-PROFITS, LIKE THE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD, I WOULD REVISIT THAT. [30:10] **Mike (Architect)**: BECAUSE IF YOU GO VISIT WITH ALL THOSE NON-PROFITS AND TRIBES AND EVERYTHING, IF YOU GO TALK TO THEM AND SAY, WE UNDERSTAND THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR IS KIND OF YOUR GUYS' HOME, BUT ANY BUILDINGS IN THE FUTURE HAVE TO BE SIX STORIES, NONE OF THOSE INDIAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE GOING TO BUILD ANYTHING, THEY'RE GOING TO WALK AWAY FROM THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. [30:29] **Mike (Architect)**: SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT THAT. I MEAN THAT'S JUST MY OPINION OF KNOWING THE NONPROFITS DOWN IN THAT COMMUNITY. AND FOR THIS TO BE A SIX-STORY -- AND RYAN TALKED ABOUT HEALTHCARE DESIGN, YOU TALK ABOUT LEAN OPERATING PROCEDURES, AND THIS IS SOMETHING DR. ROCK TALKED TO US ABOUT. RIGHT? [30:47] **Mike (Architect)**: SO HOW FAR IS IT FOR THE PHARMACIST TO WALK TO A HOME CARE AREA WHERE THEY CAN TALK TO THE PATIENT, RIGHT? SO IF IT'S A THREE-STORY FACILITY, THAT LEAN OPERATING PROCEDURES IS MUCH MORE EFFICIENT THAN IF I HAVE TO GET IN AN ELEVATOR AND RIDE UP FIVE STORIES TO MEET SOMEWHERE ELSE, RIGHT? [31:06] **Mike (Architect)**: SO A CLINIC C -- A HOSPITAL LENDS ITSELF TO MULTISTORY DESIGN, BUT CLINICS SHOULD NOT. AND I GUESS YOU HAVE ALL OF THE BUSINESS MODELS AND EVERYTHING, BUT THIS IS A CLINIC, IT'S NOT A HOSPITAL, IT'S NOT ANYTHING ELSE, I'M NOT LEVEL THREE CARE OR ANY OF THAT STUFF. [31:22] **Mike (Architect)**: THIS IS JUST A CLINIC. IT NEEDS TO HAVE QUICK ACCESS TO PATIENTS AND DOCTORS TO INTERACT TOGETHER IN A LEAN OPERATING AND EFFICIENT PATTERN AND REQUIRING SIX STORIES REALLY IS NOT GOOD. SO THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE FEEL THAT A THREE-STORY IS REALLY, REALLY RELEVANT HERE BUT, AGAIN, THAT AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE NEW EASTERN ANCHOR OF THAT AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR. [31:45] **Mike (Architect)**: IF I TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DESIGN. IN 1918 THE SPANISH FLU PANDEMIC WAS HERE, AND NATIVE AMERICAN WOMAN HAD A VISION, AND SHE WAS TOLD THAT IF SHE CREATED A JINGLE DRESS AND DANCED WITH IT, IT WAS A HEALING DRESS. [32:01] **Mike (Architect)**: SO THEY DID THAT IN 1918. AND ALMOST 100 YEARS LATER WE HAD ANOTHER PANDEMIC, AND DR. ROCK AND I WERE ENVISIONING THIS CLINIC DESIGN, IF YOU CAN SEE THE DESIGN, THE CORNER LOOKS LIKE A JINGLE ON A JINGLE DRESS. SO THIS BUILDING, AGAIN WITH A HOLISTIC APPROACH, IS GOING TO BE THE EASTERN ANCHOR OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE CULTURALLY REPRESENTED BY THE DESIGN OF A JINGLE DRESS. [32:27] **Mike (Architect)**: AND SO IT'S A HEALING BUILDING, IT'S A HEALING CAMPUS, AND REQUIRING US TO MAKE A SIX-STORY JINGLE, IT'S GOING TO BASICALLY THROW THE DESIGN ELEMENT OUT THE WINDOW AND WE MIGHT AS WELL PUT A SQUARE TUBE BOX UP, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD. [32:43] **Mike (Architect)**: WE'LL USE THE CULTURAL ELEMENT IN THIS DESIGN AND HAVE TO START OVER. AGAIN, THAT'S ME BEING A LITTLE BIT PASSIONATE ON MY SOAPBOX, BUT, AGAIN, WE HAVE REALLY THOUGHT THIS OUT AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE WORKING WITH HILLARY AND HER ABILITY TO WALK US THROUGH THIS. SO, I DON'T KNOW, I CAN ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS, OR DR. ROCK, IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE THINGS TO ADD? [33:02] **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED DOING A MIXED USE PROJECT WITH HOUSING ON TOP, PARTNERING WITH SOMEONE? >> **Mike (Architect)**: DR. ROCK AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE DAYS AGO ON MONDAY. SO THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF CLINICS, AND TO INTERJECT A MIXED USE INTO HERE MAKES IT REALLY INEFFICIENT. [33:22] **Mike (Architect)**: DR. ROCK CAN PROBABLY TELL YOU STORIES OF WORKING IN HENNEPIN COUNTY, THE HOSPITAL HERE AND ALL THAT STUFF, AND THE ABILITY TO TRY TO -- THE HIPAA REGULATIONS AND INTERJECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT THERE FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES INTO THE FORMULA DOESN'T -- ISN'T CONDUCIVE TO A REALLY HEALING ENVIRONMENT. [33:39] **Mike (Architect)**: ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESIDENTIAL IN THERE OR FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES OR ANY OF THOSE THINGS. THIS SHOULD BE FOR DOCTORS AND SO A MIXED USE DOESN'T LEND ITSELF ON A CLINICAL LEVEL. [33:56] **Mike (Architect)**: ESPECIALLY WHEN DOING THINGS THAT AREN'T JUST TYPICAL MEDICAL SERVICES. THEY ARE GOING TO BE HAVING SMUDGES HERE. DO WE WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE NON-NATIVE NON-RESIDENTS WALKING THROUGH A SMUDGING CEREMONY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND? OR SOMEBODY GOING TO JIMMY JOHN'S WALKING INTO A CEREMONY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND? [34:13] **Mike (Architect)**: THIS IS A MEDICAL SERVICE AREA. IT DOESN'T DO JUST SERVICE TO NATIVE AMERICANS. IT SERVICES ANYBODY, BUT IT'S FOCUSED ON NATIVE AMERICANS, INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND HOLISTIC APPROACHES, SO MIXED USE REALLY DOESN'T MATCH. IT'S NOT A CULTURAL MATCH, IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT THAT WAY. [34:31] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THIS. AS I MENTIONED EARLIER I WAS A -- DURING MY RESIDENCY, I DID MY RESIDENCY AT HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER, A LONG TIME AGO. [34:50] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: I'M A FAMILY DOC BY TRAINING. WE DID OUR TRAINING WHERE THE K-MART USED TO BE ON WEST LAKE STREET. OUR CLINIC WAS ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. SO WE CONSTANTLY RAN INTO ISSUES OF SECURITY WITHIN THE PARKING LOT. [35:09] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: CONSTANTLY RAN INTO ISSUES OF THINGS LIKE WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO COME TO SEE US BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA. AND SO WE WERE TRYING TO BE RESPONSIVE TO WHAT OUR PATIENTS HAVE TOLD US. [35:24] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: WHAT OUR PATIENTS HAVE TOLD US IS THEIR PRIVACY IS PARAMOUNT, IT'S IMPORTANT. AND THAT WAS THE WHOLE CONCEPT EVEN BEHIND THIS WHOLE CAMPUS CONCEPT. WE STILL HAVE A -- LIKE A ONE PLACE FOR LIKE A SINGLE WAITING AREA FOR MULTIPLE SERVICES. [35:41] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND SO PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO COME IN AND WAIT FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH APPOINTMENTS AND GET RECOGNIZED, BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY IS FAIRLY SMALL, RIGHT? WE KNOW PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY IN OUR LOCAL AREA. PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE THEY WERE GETTING THEIR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES OR SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER SERVICES. [36:02] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND SO WE SPREAD THINGS OUT. WE INDIVIDUALIZED SPECIFIC WAITING AREAS FOR -- SO WE HAVE A SEPARATE WAITING AREA IN OUR BUILDING FOR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, FOR EXAMPLE. SO THAT'S VERY SPECIFIC. [36:18] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: AND ACTUALLY THE CONCEPT ACTUALLY HELPED US WHEN COVID STRUCK. WE DIDN'T WANT EVERYBODY IN A SINGLE WAITING AREA. SO WE, OF COURSE, SPREAD THINGS OUT. SO IT ACCOMPLISHED SEVERAL -- THIS CONCEPT ACCOMPLISHED SEVERAL THINGS MOVING FORWARD. [36:35] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: SO I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU. >> **Chair Meyer**: OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: SO A COUPLE THINGS. I THINK FIRST, YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR A LECTURE FROM ME ON THE CULTURAL VALUE OF HAVING YOUR PRESENCE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK THAT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. [36:54] **Commissioner Campbell**: I WORK IN HEALTHCARE AND NOBODY GOES INTO HEALTHCARE FOR THE MONEY BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH. SO THIS IS CLEARLY DRIVEN BY YOUR PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND PASSION. SO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT TO US TODAY. I WANT TO GO BACK TO TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, THE COMMENT THAT MR. MEYER MADE. [37:11] **Commissioner Campbell**: THE SYSTEM I WORK FOR DOES INCORPORATE A WHOLE VARIETY OF DIFFERENT USES. COMMERCIAL OR HOUSING OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, I DO THINK THAT IT'S WORTH AN EVALUATION. I KNOW IT PROBABLY DOESN'T FIT IN WITH THE MISSION AND THE WORK THAT YOU ARE PRIORITIZING TODAY, BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A VALUE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS DOES COME BACK IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION FOR A FULL OFFICIAL REVIEW, FOR YOU TO HAVE EXHAUSTED THAT OPTION IN THE INTEREST OF FEEDBACK ON TODAY'S PRESENTATION. [37:39] **Commissioner Campbell**: I THINK THE SECOND THING IS, AS I LOOK THROUGH, WE ARE -- WE ARE IN A CHALLENGING POSITION HERE ON THIS PANEL BECAUSE WE DON'T GENERALLY MAKE POLITICAL DECISIONS. WE MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT IS OUTLINED IN ORDINANCE OR STATUTE, WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO INTERPRET ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO THE COMMITTEE. [37:58] **Commissioner Campbell**: AND VARIANCE REQUESTS DO NEED TO -- WE NEED TO COME UP WITH FINDINGS THAT SUPPORT ONE OF -- YOU KNOW, EACH OF THE THREE DIFFERENT PIECES THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT. AS I LOOK THROUGH THE DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU HAVE SENT FOR US TODAY, I THINK YOU HAVE SATISFACTORILY MET CONDITION 2 AND 3. [38:16] **Commissioner Campbell**: I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT NUMBER 1. I THINK WHAT I READ HERE IS HOW STANDARDS DON'T FIT IN WITH YOUR PLAN, BUT I THINK WHAT THE QUESTION IS ASKING IS HOW DOES THIS SITE, THE PROPERTY, THE SOIL AND THE LAND MAKE IT MORE CHALLENGING FOR YOU TO FIT INTO WHAT THE ZONING CODE SAYS. [38:37] **Commissioner Campbell**: AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A VALUE FOR YOU TO LOOK INTO THE SURROUNDING AREA THAT YOU ARE NEXT TO. YOU KNOW, WE PROVIDE VARIANCES FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFICULT SOIL CONDITIONS OR IF THERE ARE THINGS, YOU KNOW, UNDERNEATH THE SOIL THAT MAKE BUILDING CHALLENGING. [38:54] **Commissioner Campbell**: LIKE THERE IS A WHOLE VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN GET THERE, BUT I THINK WHAT WE HAVE, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US TODAY DOES NOT MEET THAT CRITERIA. SO I WOULD TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT NUMBER 1 HERE OF YOUR VARIANCE REQUEST BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING. [39:09] **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER BAXLEY. >> **Commissioner Baxley**: THANK YOU. THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION. JUST TO ECHO A COUPLE THINGS THAT COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL SAID. I THINK IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU MET THAT MINIMUM FAR, I THINK, BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DENSITY, IT'S ABOUT LAND USE AND THE BUILT FORM HEIGHT. [39:34] **Commissioner Baxley**: SO I THINK SETTING THAT -- I THINK THAT'S REALLY GOOD AND I THINK THAT BOLSTERS YOUR ARGUMENT. WHILE WE'RE NOT MEETING HEIGHT, WE'RE MEETING DENSITY IN A DIFFERENT WAY. SO I THINK FOCUSING ON THAT IS GOOD. I THINK ALSO YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT A CAMPUS HERE. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A MASTER PLAN FOR THE CAMPUS, HOW WE'RE IN AN AREA THAT IS DRIVING SIX STORIES, HOW MAYBE IN THE FUTURE, WHILE THIS ONE DOESN'T MEET THAT, OTHER IDEAS THAT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT OF THE CAMPUS POTENTIALLY COULD. [40:04] **Commissioner Baxley**: I THINK THAT REALLY HELPS YOUR ARGUMENT, AND THE FACT THAT YOUR PROPERTY IS A BORDER PROPERTY TOO. WE TALKED ABOUT HEIGHT AND GRADUATION OF HEIGHT FROM ONE ZONING TO THE OTHER. YOU COULD PROBABLY MAKE AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT AROUND WHAT THOSE SORT OF BORDER PROPERTIES AND THE UNIQUE ASPECTS OF THOSE TO DIFFERENT ZONING AREAS. SO I THINK THE OTHER ONE, THE FACT THAT YOU PURCHASED THE PROPERTY PRIOR UNDER -- YOU STARTED PLANNING FOR THIS UNDER A CERTAIN CONDITION. [40:37] **Commissioner Baxley**: THE CITY HAS CHANGED THAT. I THINK TALKING ABOUT THAT, TOO, THAT IS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE. ONE THAT YOU HAD BROUGHT THIS PLANNING ON A CERTAIN THING AND NOW HAVE TO CHANGE THAT. AGAIN, I THINK YOU FOLD THAT INTO THE -- WE RECOGNIZE THAT INTO A MASTER PLAN FOR THIS AREA. [40:54] **Commissioner Baxley**: YOU BEGIN TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I CAN UNDERSTAND NOW, I HAVE MET THE FAR, I'VE GOT BIGGER PLANS FOR THIS. I'VE BEEN ABLE TO PIVOT BASED ON -- I THINK THAT ARGUMENT REALLY STARTS TO HAVE SOME LEGS. SO, GOOD LUCK. >> **Hillary Dvorak**: IF I MAY, JUST ON THAT PIECE, SO THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE BASE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY ON NEED TO BE UNIQUE TO THIS SITE, AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO COMMUNICATE THAT IF THE POLICY CHANGED WHILE YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE PROJECT, THAT THAT ITSELF COULD BE A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT UNIQUE TO THIS SITE AS THAT ACTUALLY AFFECTED THE ENTIRE CITY WHEN WE ADOPTED THE 2040 PLAN. [41:37] **Hillary Dvorak**: SO, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY PART OF THE NARRATIVE FOR DISCUSSION, BUT JUST FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE WANTED TO FLAG THAT. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER OLSON. >> **Commissioner Olson**: THANK YOU. [41:53] **Commissioner Olson**: I AGREE WITH WHAT THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ALREADY SAID, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK IN THE COMMUNITY. I THINK ALL OF US UP HERE BELIEVE THAT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. I LIKE THIS BUILDING THAT YOU ARE SHOWING US. I THINK THAT FEATURE IN THE CORRIDOR IS REALLY COOL. [42:10] **Commissioner Olson**: AND I CAN SEE THE IMPORTANCE OF ACCESS TO TRANSIT AND SORT OF THE CULTURALLY AND GEOGRAPHICALLY SENSITIVE NATURE OF WHERE YOU ARE SITING YOUR PROJECTS. RIGHT NOW I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M SEEING THE FINDINGS THERE. [42:29] **Commissioner Olson**: IF STAFF CAN MAKE THE FINDINGS, I WOULD LOVE TO VOTE YES ON THIS PROJECT. SO YEAH THANKS. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER THOMPSON. >> **Commissioner Thompson**: THANK YOU SO MUCH. PRESIDENT, RIGHT? MEYER. [42:48] **Commissioner Thompson**: I HAVE NO PROBLEM GRANTING YOU THE VARIANCE. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF CLINIC MIXED USE IS NOT GOING TO WORK. I ALSO HAVE WORKED INTIMATELY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND KNOW THAT THAT, AS YOU SAID, THE CORRIDOR, AND THE FINANCING FOR A LOT OF NONPROFITS, I AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL, THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A LOT OF SIX PLUS STORIES OUT OF EXISTING THINGS THERE. [43:14] **Commissioner Thompson**: AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO IN THIS PANEL AND JUST IN THIS CITY IN GENERAL, IS THAT BEST LAID PLANS SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, WE MIGHT BE ROOTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS IN A SORT OF DIFFERENT -- SORT OF -- WHAT IS THE PHRASE I'M LOOKING FOR? [43:38] **Commissioner Thompson**: DISPLACEMENT RIGHT? BECAUSE AS EVERYTHING BUILDS UP AROUND RIGHT? THEN CENTERS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME FINANCIALLY, JUST WITH VOLUME CAN'T MEET THAT REQUIREMENT. ALSO, JUST ON THE MEDICAL SIDE, I COMPLETELY -- THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME. [43:55] **Commissioner Thompson**: I DO HAVE ONE RANDOM QUESTION. FORGIVE ME, DOCTOR, I FORGOT YOUR NAME WHEN YOU SAID IT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAID HCMC, MY FATHER WAS A FAMILY PHYSICIAN AT HCMC AND I'M GOING TO ASK MY DAD. WHAT IS YOUR NAME? >> **Dr. Patrick Rock**: PATRICK ROCK, R-O-C-K. [44:12] **Commissioner Thompson**: EXCELLENT. I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH BEING HERE. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER CONLEY. >> **Commissioner Connelly**: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I AM THRILLED FOR THIS PROJECT. I THINK IT'S GREAT, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE -- THAT YOU ARE DOING IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND I THINK IT SAYS A LOT THAT I WANTED TO GET TO A YES. [44:36] **Commissioner Connelly**: A FEW THINGS THAT I HAVE THAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT WOULD JUST REPEAT COMMISSIONER BAXLEY AND CAMPBELL, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THAT FIRST ONE. I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID, THOUGH, THAT YOU ARE A UNIQUE SPACE ALONG THIS CORRIDOR AND COMMUNITY; ONE, THE LARGEST URBAN NATIVE POPULATION IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS VERY CRITICAL. [44:58] **Commissioner Connelly**: LIKE I KNOW INDIGENOUS RELATIVES WILL COME FROM MILES TO COME TO YOUR CLINIC, I KNOW THAT. AND I ALSO NEVER HAVE BEEN IN A CLINIC THAT WAS SIX STORIES TALL. PERSONALLY, AS A HUMAN BEING, LIKE THE CLINIC DOWN THE STREET FROM MY HOUSE, MY PRIMARY -- IT'S LIKE TWO STORIES, JUST A LITTLE THING, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET TO THE LAB AND PHARMACY AND YOU CAN SEE YOUR DOCTOR AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH A MAZE. [45:19] **Commissioner Connelly**: SO THERE'S SOMETHING UNIQUE ABOUT THAT, AND I JUST WANTED TO CALL THAT OUT. AND I DO THINK THAT YOU ARE MEETING A TON OF GOALS THAT THE CITY SET IN THE 2040. SO I'M LOOKING AT PAGE 5. ELIMINATING DISPARITIES. [45:34] **Commissioner Connelly**: OF COURSE. ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, WHERE MANY OF THE POPULATION THAT YOU WILL BE SERVING ARE ON TRANSIT LINES ANYWAY, ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE IN A TRANSIT CORRIDOR LIKE THAT. HEALTHY PEOPLE, HISTORY, CULTURE, CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, ALL OF THE THINGS. [45:51] **Commissioner Connelly**: LIKE THIS IS A PROJECT THAT WOULD BE, LIKE, A GREAT ONE FOR US TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD. SO I WANT IT TO MOVE FORWARD. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I THOUGHT ABOUT WAS ADDING HOUSING. OF COURSE, WHY WOULDN'T WE, RIGHT? WE WANT MORE HOUSING, AND WE CERTAINLY NEED IT. [46:08] **Commissioner Connelly**: BUT I THINK YOU MAKE THE CASE FOR THE VERY INTIMATE NATURE OF SOME OF THE CULTURAL HEALING PRACTICES WITHIN THE INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY, LIKE BEING ON SITE THERE AND HOW THAT COULD BE DISRUPTED. [46:25] **Commissioner Connelly**: I'VE BEEN SOLD, BUT I DO HAVE QUESTIONS AROUND HOW WE CAN GET TO A "YES" SO THAT THE TECHNICAL PIECES DON'T BOG US DOWN, BECAUSE THIS IS TOO MUCH OF AN ASSET. ONE OF THE THINGS I WILL MENTION IS THAT THE FORMER LOCATION OF THE NAVIGATION CENTER, AS IT WAS CALLED SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WHICH IS NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE, IS NOW A CLINIC AND HOUSING. [46:46] **Commissioner Connelly**: I THINK RED LAKE OWNS THE SPACE. DON'T RECALL THE NAME, IF ANYONE KNOWS THE NAME OF IT, JUST SHOUT IT OUT. BECAUSE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WAS ON THE TIP OF MY TONGUE AND I COULDN'T THINK OF THAT EITHER. SO IT'S A CLINIC, AND THEN THERE IS LIKE MAYBE -- IT LOOKS LIKE FIVE STORIES MAYBE OF HOUSING ON TOP. [47:05] **Commissioner Connelly**: SO THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN AND PULL THAT OFF. AGAIN, THOUGH, I CAN SEE THE SUPPORT FOR AND AGAINST. SO I'M HOPING THAT THERE IS MORE WORK TO BE DONE, WE CAN GET THIS TO A YES, GET IT APPROVED AND GET THE GROUND BROKEN AND GET IT BUILT. [47:25] **Commissioner Connelly**: SO JUST I WANTED TO THANK YOU AND JUST HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE SUPPORT THAT I SEE AND ALSO ECHOING JUST A LITTLE BIT OF THE "THINK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE" PIECES. THANK YOU. >> **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [47:40] **Chair Meyer**: FOR MY PART, I WOULD BE PRETTY RELUCTANT TO SUPPORT THE VARIANCES. I LIKE THE PROJECT. ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, THE STREET FACING PART, I THINK THAT LOOKS REALLY UNIQUE. BUT I'M HESITANT TO SUPPORT VARIANCES THAT WOULD HAVE MAJOR IMPLICATIONS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY. [48:01] **Chair Meyer**: SO YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID AT THE TOP, WE REJECTED A PREVIOUS APPLICATION THAT SOUGHT A VARIANCE ON UNIVERSITY AVENUE, AND IF WE GRANT VARIANCES IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT WOULD APPLY TO A LOT OF OTHER PLACES, THEN THAT WOULD REALLY UNDERMINE THE NEW POLICY THAT WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED. [48:22] **Chair Meyer**: AND THE REASON THAT WE HAVE THAT POLICY IS BECAUSE WE'RE INVESTING TREMENDOUS RESOURCES INTO PUBLIC TRANSIT AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PLACES CLOSE TO PUBLIC TRANSIT -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS CLOSE TO THE STATION AND OTHER BUS LINES, AND MORE COMING -- WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PUTTING THOSE SPACES TO GOOD USE. [48:43] **Chair Meyer**: SO I WOULD REALLY NEED TO SCRUTINIZE ANY POTENTIAL VARIANCES FOR THE IMPLICATION THEY WOULD HAVE ELSEWHERE. SO I WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO SUPPORT A VARIANCE BASED ON WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED BECAUSE -- I MEAN, AS WAS BEING SAID, THAT WOULD APPLY TO ALL THE PLACES THAT HAD THEIR ZONING CHANGED. [49:10] **Chair Meyer**: I WOULD BE RELUCTANT ON THE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S ON THE BORDER OF THE ZONING AREA, BECAUSE TRANSIT 20 DOESN'T APPLY VERY MANY PLACES. YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY SMALL FOOTPRINT, AND IF WE WERE TO START NOT APPLYING THE RULE TO THE BOUNDARY, THERE WOULDN'T BE MUCH PLACE -- MANY PLACES LEFT WHERE WE WERE APPLYING THE RULE AT ALL. [49:15] **Kimberly Holien (Staff)**: WHILE WE HAVE YOU ALL HERE, TO AVOID POTENTIALLY BRINGING YOU BACK HERE FOR A DIFFERENT QUESTION, SO I'VE HEARD YOU KNOW, GENERAL SUPPORT, BUT YOU KNOW, IN THE STAFF MEMO AND AS YOU HAVE HEARD HERE, STAFF HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND JUST IN THE PRIMARILY DISCUSSIONS WE HAD ANY UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CONSTITUTE A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY HERE, RELATIVELY FLAT SITE, A VACANT SITE. [49:36] **Chair Meyer**: I THINK MAYBE ONE ROUTE -- LIKE IF IT'S REALLY THE CASE THAT MEDICAL FACILITIES AREN'T SUITED FOR MIXED USE, WHICH I WOULD BE -- I WOULD WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT, I'M NOT PERSUADED ON THAT YET, BUT IF THAT'S REALLY THE CASE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT OTHERS WOULD RECOMMEND AS WELL, THEN I THINK MAYBE, YOU KNOW, ONE ROUTE WOULD BE TO MAKE A POLICY CHANGE TO EXEMPT MEDICAL FACILITIES FROM THIS REQUIREMENT. [50:04] **Chair Meyer**: THAT WOULD BE A WAY TO -- THAT THIS PROJECT COULD BE APPROVED WITHOUT HAVING, YOU KNOW, UNDERMINING THE POLICY OVERALL. BUT I WOULD BE HESITANT ON ANY VARIANCES THAT WOULD BASICALLY UNDERMINE THE POLICY. [50:21] **Chair Meyer**: IF WE DID GO DOWN THAT ROUTE, THEN I WOULD ALMOST WANT TO INVITE BACK THE PREVIOUS APPLICANT FROM THE UNIVERSITY AVENUE AND SAY, I THINK WE WOULD NEED A BIGGER POLICY CHANGE IF WE WENT DOWN THAT ROUTE. [51:05] **Kimberly Holien**: CERTAINLY THE APPLICANT COULD DO EXPLORING ABOUT SOIL CONDITIONS OR THINGS LIKE THAT, TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING, BUT THIS IS TRANSIT 20, WHICH IS -- YOU HAVE VERY NARROWLY APPLIED, IT GOT TRANSIT 20 DESIGNATION BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY TO THE LRT STATION. [51:24] **Kimberly Holien**: THAT GENERALLY FOLLOWED WHAT WE CALLED THE PREVIOUS TRANSIT STATION, PO DISTRICTS, WHICH ARE QUARTER MILE SPACING BOUNDARIES FROM TRANSIT STATIONS. 21ST IS THE EDGE OF THE TRANSIT 20, AND THEN TRANSITIONS DOWN TO CORRIDOR SIX ACROSS THE STREET TO THE EAST. [51:43] **Kimberly Holien**: WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT IS A BETTER TOOL HERE. THERE ARE OTHER CATEGORIES BETWEEN TRANSIT 20 AND CORRIDOR SIX. WE HAVE OUR TRANSIT 15 DISTRICT, WHICH IS ALSO, YOU KNOW, CALLING FOR REALLY HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENT. [52:00] **Kimberly Holien**: THE MINIMUM HEIGHT THERE IS FOUR STORIES. WE ALSO HAVE A TRANSIT 10 DISTRICT WITH MINIMUM HEIGHT OF TWO STORIES. SO WE DON'T NORMALLY DO THESE ON THE APPLICANT BACK FOR THAT DISCUSSION, I GUESS HOW DOES THE COMMISSION FEEL ABOUT POTENTIALLY A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT? [52:24] **Kimberly Holien**: AND THE ANALYSIS IS GOING FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, REALLY RELY ON THE ALGORITHM WE USED ABOUT PROXIMITY TO TRANSIT. SO WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT DEEP DIVE YET. I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE WOULD LAND, BUT, AGAIN, THERE ARE -- THERE IS SOME ROOM BETWEEN TRANSIT 20 AND CORRIDOR 6. [52:41] **Kimberly Holien**: I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT FOR DISCUSSION WHILE YOU'RE HERE. >> **Chair Meyer**: I THINK I WOULD START OFF BY SAYING I WOULD BE RECEPTIVE TO A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT. COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL AND OLSON AND WAGNER. AND CONLEY. >> **Commissioner Campbell**: SO KIMBERLY IN THAT -- I ALSO AM SUPPORTIVE OF THAT, IN CONCEPT. [53:01] **Commissioner Campbell**: HOW DO YOU -- HOW DO YOU DEFEND THAT CHANGE TO THIS SPECIFIC PROJECT FOR OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY WITH LESS OF A COMPELLING NEED AND/OR CASE THAT WANT SIMILAR TREATMENT TO COMMISSIONER MEYER'S EARLIER POINT. [53:25] **Kimberly Holien**: GREAT QUESTION. WE HAVEN'T DONE THE FULL DEEP DIVE THERE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO WITH THAT ANALYSIS, IF YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT REPORTS IN THE PAST IS WHAT POLICIES IS THIS MEETING, AND IS IT STILL GOING TO ALLOW FOR THE TYPE OF HIGH INTENSITY DEVELOPMENT WE WANT THIS CLOSE TO TRANSIT STATION IF WE CHANGE IT FROM TRANSIT 20 TO TRANSIT 15. [53:50] **Kimberly Holien**: I THINK THE ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE. IT'S DIFFERENT IF YOU'RE GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CORRIDOR 6, BUT IF WE'RE STAYING IN THAT TRANSIT 10, TRANSIT 15 AREA, WE'RE STILL ACKNOWLEDGING WHAT -- YOU KNOW, GREAT ACCESS TO TRANSIT THIS SITE HAS, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD HAVE TO CALL OUT SPECIFIC POLICIES AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE REALLY NARROWLY LOOKING AT IT THAT WAY. [54:13] **Kimberly Holien**: BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE FURTHER YOU CHIP AWAY AT THAT QUARTER MILE SPACING, THE MORE POTENTIAL THERE IS FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW SUIT. BUT THIS WOULD BE ONE PARCEL. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER OLSON. [54:28] **Commissioner Olson**: YEAH, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, I WOULD SUPPORT A TRANSIT 10 OR A TRANSIT 15 AND I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF POLICIES IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WOULD BE UNIQUE TO THIS AND WOULD HELP ME SUPPORT IT. [54:46] **Chair Meyer**: DID YOU STILL WANT TO SPEAK? >> **Commissioner Wagner**: NO. >> **Chair Meyer**: OKAY. COMMISSIONER CONLEY. >> **Commissioner Connelly**: I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING DIFFERENT TO SAY OTHER THAN THAT YEAH.. WHATEVER WOULD GET THIS ACROSS THE FINISH LINE OR GET IT TO A YES TO CLEAR UP THE ISSUE WITH THE FIRST VARIANCE, I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD ABSOLUTELY STAND BEHIND. [55:08] **Commissioner Connelly**: I DO HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH. SO, LIKE, THE FACT THAT THIS, LIKE, MEETS A NUMBER OF STATED GOALS ALREADY IN THE PLAN, LIKE IT'S A CULTURALLY SPECIFIC CLINIC IN A CULTURALLY DESIGNATED AREA THAT WAS CREATED BY THE CITY, SO THERE'S NOT VERY MANY CULTURAL DISTRICTS, RIGHT? [55:28] **Commissioner Connelly**: THERE'S LIKE FIVE -- SEVEN MAYBE THROUGHOUT THE CITY? SO THE FACT THIS IS JUST ON ONE OF THOSE SPACES IN THIS REALLY BIG CITY, MEETING MULTIPLE POLICY STATED POLICY GOALS, LIKE IS THAT THE AMENDMENT? OR IS -- LIKE COULD THAT MAKE THE ARGUMENT TO AMEND THE COMP PLAN? [55:45] **Kimberly Holien**: I THINK THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE PART OF IT. SO I'M TRYING TO THINK ALL WAY BACK. CULTURAL DISTRICTS WERE LIKE A CONCEPT BUT THEIR EXACT LOCATION HAD NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED YET WHEN WE ADOPTED THE BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICTS. [56:06] **Kimberly Holien**: SO, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE ANALYSIS, TOO, IS HAS SOMETHING CHANGED OR, SINCE WE LOOKED AT THIS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEE THAT WITH LIKE BLUE LINE, LRT. SO I DO THINK, YES, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE STAFF REPORT IF THEY DECIDED TO PURSUE THAT OPTION. [56:23] **Commissioner Connelly**: THANK YOU. >> **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER JONES. >> **Commissioner Jones**: I GUESS I WANT TO ECHO WHAT OTHERS SAID IN MAKING SURE THAT WE MOVE THIS ACROSS THE FINISH LINE IN THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY POSSIBLE. [56:38] **Commissioner Jones**: AND I ALSO -- AND I APPRECIATE THE COMP PLAN AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TRANSIT DISTRICT, BUT I ALSO ECHO BECCA'S -- COMMISSIONER THOMPSON'S POINT, WHICH IS WE SHOULDN'T BE -- WE REALLY NEED TO BE LOOKING AT IF THESE ARE -- ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE CULTURAL CORRIDORS AND LOTS OF NONPROFITS THAT NEED TO WORK IN THEM AND WE RESTRICT THEM BY UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. WHEN WE PUT THE TRANSIT CORRIDOR THERE, AND PUT THE SIX LIMIT, THE SIX-STORY LIMIT, I JUST THINK THAT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT THAT IS WHY WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THESE, RIGHT? THAT SO WE DO NEED TO HAVE SOME SPECIFICS BUT RECOGNIZE IN THE REAL WORLD THINGS CHANGE AND THERE'S ALSO REALLY IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE NEED TO FACTOR IN. [57:24] **Commissioner Jones**: I'M ALSO CURIOUS, I WASN'T HERE FOR THE UNIVERSITY AVENUE VARIANCE AND I WOULD LIKE -- IF I COULD TAKE A 30 SECONDS TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT OR I CAN GO OFFLINE AND ASK KIMBERLY, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE FACT ABOUT CONSISTENCY, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT SOMETIMES THESE AREN'T REALLY APPLES TO APPLES, SO THAT'S MY -- >> **Chair Meyer**: KIMBERLY. [57:49] **Kimberly Holien**: I WAS ON MATERNITY LEAVE WHEN THAT CAME FORWARD, SO WE CAN TAKE THAT OFFLINE, THOUGH. HILLARY WAS FILLING IN FOR ME. I THINK THAT WAS ANOTHER AREA WHERE AN APPLICANT WAS PROPOSING A BUILDING THAT DIDN'T MEET THE MINIMUM HEIGHT AND DID NOT HAVE A GOOD CASE FOR A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY TO SUPPORT THAT. [58:06] **Kimberly Holien**: WE DO KNOW OF OTHER PROJECTS THAT APPLICANTS ARE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH STAFF ON THAT HAVE SIMILAR REQUESTS TO REDUCE MINIMUM HEIGHT OR FAR THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF IN THOSE PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS EITHER, YOU KNOW, FROM A CONSISTENCY SAKE, WE HAVE OUR ADOPTED POLICY AND WE'RE STICKING WITH THAT. [58:29] **Kimberly Holien**: BUT A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLICY AND TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED OR IF THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION THAT WOULD MAYBE MOVE THE DIAL ON THE BUILT FORM. [58:46] **Chair Meyer**: COMMISSIONER BAXLEY. >> **Commissioner Baxley**: THANK YOU, HILLARY, I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, BUT I AM -- IT'S INTERESTING, THE ISSUE ABOUT DENSITY OR IS IT BUILT FORM OR BOTH? [59:02] **Commissioner Baxley**: BECAUSE WE'RE MEETING A MINIMUM FAR. WHICH TO ME TALKS ABOUT DENSITY. IF I WERE TO BUILD THAT OUT WITH HOUSING OR WHATEVER, CHECK THE BOX. SO IS THIS ABOUT A BUILT FORM AND HOW DOES THE CITY THINK ABOUT THOSE? [59:17] **Commissioner Baxley**: I THINK THAT'S WORTH DISCUSSING. >> **Kimberly Holien**: GOOD QUESTION. I WOULD SAY IT'S BOTH, ESPECIALLY WITH THE WAY WE ADAPTED THE BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CERTAINLY HAVING INTERNAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT TOO. [59:32] **Kimberly Holien**: A LITTLE BIT MORE AESTHETIC VERSUS ISSUES OF DENSITY NEXT TO TRANSIT. THAT'S INTERESTING TO POKE AT THAT A LITTLE BIT. >> **Chair Meyer**: IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? >> **Mike (Architect)**: CAN I JUST ASK THIS? I'M M -- >> **Chair Meyer**: CAN YOU SPEAK AT THE MICROPHONE PLEASE. [59:49] **Mike (Architect)**: I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF THE SITE CHALLENGES ISSUE, AND WHAT IF WE SAY IT'S NOT REALLY A NEGATIVE THING, BUT THE SITE CHALLENGE IS THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR IS ONLY ONE PLACE, AND DR. ROCK WANTED A CLINIC ON THE CORRIDOR NEAR A PUBLIC TRANSIT HUB, AND THERE'S ONLY SO MANY SITES. [1:00:13] **Mike (Architect)**: AND HE BOUGHT THIS IN 2015. IF WE COULD FIND ANOTHER SITE THAT WASN'T IN THE SIX-STORY CORRIDOR BUT ON THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR, IS THAT A SITE CHALLENGE? BECAUSE THERE IS -- HOW MANY SITES ARE THERE THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO BUILD A CLINIC FOR HIM TO BUY? [1:00:30] **Mike (Architect)**: CAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO BUILD THIS ANYWHERE ELSE. IT HAS TO BE ON FRANKLIN AND IT HAS TO BE ON THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR. TO ME THAT'S A SITE CHALLENGE. LIKE WHEN WE BUILD ON THE RESERVATION THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH RESERVATION LAND WE CAN BUILD ON BUT HERE WE HAVE AN URBAN RESERVATION AND ONLY SO MUCH LAND THAT WE CAN BUILD ON. [1:00:49] **Mike (Architect)**: THAT'S SITE CHALLENGE TO ME. AND HE WAS FORWARD-THINKING AND BOUGHT THIS LAND IN 2015 SAYING, I'M GOING TO BUILD THE EASTERN ANCHOR OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR, A CLINIC. THERE IS NOWHERE ELSE. AND IT'S NEAR, AND WHAT HE WANTS IS PEOPLE FROM ST. PAUL THAT HE SERVES TO RIDE THE GREEN LINE TO THE BLUE LINE TO COME TO HIS CLINIC. [1:01:11] **Mike (Architect)**: HE WANTS OTHER PEOPLE FROM OUR BAR AREAS TO COME TO HIS CLINIC BY USING THE TRAIN. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A WAY FORWARD TOO AS FAR AS A SITE CHALLENGE, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A. THAT'S OUR CHALLENGE. IF WE COULD FIND MORE SITES, MAYBE WE COULD BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT THERE ISN'T. [1:01:28] **Mike (Architect)**: IT'S ONLY A MILE LONG PIECE OF ROAD WITH NORTH AND SOUTH SITES, ONE BLOCK. >> **Chair Meyer**: I THINK FOR ME I WOULD NOT BE RECEPTIVE TO IT, BECAUSE I THINK MAJORITY OF THE CORRIDOR WOULD STILL ALLOW YOUR PROJECT. IT'S ONLY THE TRANSIT 20 ON THE EASTERN EDGE THAT WOULDN'T. [1:01:45] **Mike (Architect)**: BUT THE WHOLE CORRIDOR IS COVERED BY THIS OVERLAY, CORRECT? OR NOT? >> **Chair Meyer**: NO. >> **Mike (Architect)**: IT'S THE BLUE... YEAH, THIS ENTIRE THING, THE ENTIRE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR IS A BLUE ZONE. [1:02:08] **Mike (Architect)**: THERE IS THE MINNEAPOLIS AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER, WHERE THEY ARE NOW, THE WHOLE THING IS COVERED BY THE SIX-STORY CORRIDOR, THE BLUE LINE RUNNING RIGHT ON THE PAGE THROUGH THE CENTER. >> **Chair Meyer**: I THINK THAT ALSO COULD BE SOMETHING TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION WITH THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT. [1:02:26] **Chair Meyer**: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE HAD THOSE -- WE CAN HAVE MORE DETAILED CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT TIMELINE LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS LOOK LIKE. SO YEAH. >> **Mike (Architect)**: MIGHT BE A CLICHÉ, BUT THINKING A LITTLE OUTSIDE THE BOX. [1:02:43] **Mike (Architect)**: YOU KNOW, A LAND ISSUE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HAVING. IT'S NOT WE CAN'T BUILD A SIX-STORY BECAUSE OUR FOOTINGS CAN'T BE BUILT THERE, WE CAN'T BUILD ANYWHERE ELSE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT BELONGS. YOU KNOW? SO... >> **Chair Meyer**: I MIGHT BE MISTAKEN ABOUT HOW FAR THE CORRIDOR EXTENDS TO THE WEST. [1:03:01] **Chair Meyer**: I GUESS THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FOR STAFF, IF THEY COULD SHOW US THAT. >> **Mike (Architect)**: IF YOU WANT, I COULD SEND YOU THE ENTIRE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR CULTURAL MASTER PLAN DONE BY NACDI THAT WAS ESTABLISHED -- THE WHOLE PLAN FOR A FUTURE VISION OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN CORRIDOR. [1:03:16] **Mike (Architect)**: AND IT'S TEN BLOCKS TO THE EAST OF -- OR TO THE WEST OF THIS EASTERN ANCHOR. SO IT'S ALMOST A MILE LONG. >> **Chair Meyer**: I WOULD WANT TO HEAR FROM STAFF WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY ABOUT THAT. [1:03:34] **Chair Meyer**: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT IT? ALL RIGHT, I THINK MY PREFERRED ROUTE WOULD STILL BE A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT FOR ME. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION OR ANY CLOSING COMMENTS FROM THE APPLICANT? >> **Dr. Patrick Rock**: JUST THANK YOU FOR HEARING US. [1:03:50] **Dr. Patrick Rock**: I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. >> **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, THAT CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS FOR THE DAY. SO I WILL DECLARE OUR MEETING ADJOURNED. OUR NEXT MEETING IS MAY 6TH, 2024. [1:04:06] **Chair Meyer**: THERE IS NO COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THIS WEEK. ARE THERE ANY OTHER UPDATES FROM STAFF? OR FROM COMMISSIONERS? >> **Kimberly Holien**: NO, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR BEING FLEXIBLE ABOUT HAVING THIS KIND OF QUASI-COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE DISCUSSION IN REGULAR MEETING TONIGHT. [1:04:23] **Kimberly Holien**: I HOPE THIS WILL HELP. >> **Chair Meyer**: THANK YOU, EVERYONE.