e e e e e hereby call to order the Roseville city council meeting for Monday August 5th 2024 Mr city manager would you call the role please council member etton present council member schroer here council member grath here council member St here mayor row here uh and with us at the Das by way of introduction we have our City attorney R City attorney Rachel Tyne I almost said our City attorney um Rachel Tierney on my right it's yeah I've been I'm a little rusty here so bear with me and then city manager Pat Tron on my left at the end of the day uh we also have a number of uh department heads staff and guests who will participate in the meeting and be introduced as various agenda items come up I would remind folks if you got a cell phone to silence it or otherwise assure that it doesn't disrupt the meeting um and I believe that is all we need to cover by way of housekeeping uh given we don't have a a substantial amount of members of the public here this evening so with that we'll ask folks to stand if you're able for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right next on tonight's agenda is approval of the agenda uh and I'll just double check with folks in the room can you hear okay in the back of the room okay good um once again approval of the agenda are there any changes from a staff perspective Mr Tron there is not Mr Mayor all right are there any requests changes from the council or items the council would like removed from the consent agenda for separate consideration this evening no does not appear to be the case then a motion to approve the agenda as presented would be in order second moved by council member gra second by council member schroer uh any discussion on that motion uh hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously we have our agenda for this evening uh next on our agenda would be an opportunity for public comment this is an opportunity for members of the to the public to speak to items that are not on this evening's agenda uh but may be of interest to people in the community or related to City business uh once again that we are not taking up this evening uh it doesn't appear that we have any members of the public with us this evening so after having made that announcement I think we can proceed uh on that presumption that we don't have anybody to speak from the public this evening and we can move right into our agenda uh we don't have any recognitions or donations or any items removed from the consent agenda so we can proceed right into our business items our first business item this evening is item 7A which is to consider accepting a proposal from inspiring site for strategic planning services and Al turn it over to city manager trudon to introduce this item Mr trudon thank you Mr Mayor as you mentioned uh we're here tonight for the council to consider proving or accepting the proposal from uh inspiring site for strategic planning as way of background and we go into this in the um staff report but as a result of Envision Roseville we came up with Community aspirations which were approved by the council in April we now want to link those Community aspirations to our strategic plan and uh the next step would be to hire a consultant to help facilitate all that as part of the process we did uh send out fers to uh several companies to have a pre- meeting to talk a little bit about what our expectations uh were and spe specifically uh The Envision R process and the community aspirations thanks to Mayor Ro and Council schroer participating in uh those meetings uh of uh the five that we did end up talking to for subit Ed proposals they were Center for policy planning and performance Q Life inspiring site and rap Consultants um once we had those proposals a subcommittee consisting once again of Mayor R and council member schroer as well as myself assistant city manager Rebecca Olsen community development director Janice gunlock and Equity inclusion manager Antonio Montes uh reviewed and scored all of those proposals and also conducted interviews for with each of those um proposers um we do have the raw scores as attachment for in there if you want to refer to that we also have all the proposals in the packet uh based on uh the review uh and the scoring as well as the interviews consensus was reached by the subcommittee that uh inspiring site would uh be the best firm to conduct our City's strategic planning process and the reasons are are enumerated in the uh packet but uhu they really have focus on change management is so crucial for strategic planning to make sure you change the ways you're doing things they have some good supplemental uh Services uh spe specifically around implementation of the plan they focus on systems they have a lot of experience in facilitation uh they have an Innovative approach we felt uh is also tailored to exactly what we're looking for while they don't have a lot of um direct Municipal experience uh we felt that uh they bring some fresh ideas and processes and that's the benefit uh thank you a little bit differently they also uh seem to be very flexible on their approach and would uh adjust as necessary throughout the process and also they had alignment with the city's Equity goals so uh from the qualitative that certainly Rose to the top um they did inspiring site you look at the cost once again we have this in the packet uh the cost for the services range from $6,600 to 36500 inspiring s's base cost is 28,500 there are some alicar uh items that they um offered as a possibility and I would mention that one thing that the subcommittee felt that we may want to have some assistance in implementing the Strategic plan and that was another $4,300 so we think that should be part of the consideration tonight which would raise that total cost to 32,800 I would also note as you can see from the table uh there is varying amount of hours that are put forth by the consultant and certainly inspiring site has a lot of hours compared uh to the others as well that doesn't necessarily mean that's going to be a better product but we were encouraged by that that they would spend this sufficient amount of time to help guide us um the cost as I mentioned if we go with the allart uh for the session to help um um facilitate the implementation um would be 32,800 uh in our 2024 budget we did allocate $30,000 uh for the service so we're pretty close I would mention that we did fund that however through the use of reserves since this is a kind of a one-time cost and not through Levy so we would need to use the reserves for that and that's been factored in uh to the budget that way so probably the next step and certainly uh be happy to answer any questions would be to um accept the proposal and then allow us to bring back a contract for final approval by the council there is a strategy design session uh to help firm up the scope that would be conducted with um myself and assistant city manager Olson as well as inspiring site just to flush that out and we can bring that information back as part of that contract approval so that is uh the quick uh summary of that Mary K delille of inspiring site is here and maybe she wants to come up and introduce herself and say a few words but um certainly happy to answer any questions as well all right uh but we'll start with questions uh see if council members have questions for staff or certainly for the proposed consultant uh council members questions council member Aton I appreciate all the work that the subcommittee did and the proposer did I would love to hear more from the subcommittee or staff on how you think this is going to be different and kind of crosses that barrier with not having any Municipal experience um Council schroer I don't know if you'd like to take a stab at that but I can certainly as well well actually I think it's it's not who the clients are it's how their approaches and I think that's more important because if you look at um um and and let me back up every one of these um firms had something to offer so they were all had some good points but this particular firm their approach actually seem to be um better for our city and what we're trying to do especially since we've never done this before and and if you look at yeah some of the other ones have done and in of course I think you were here when they did the strategic Plan before that one was somebody who had um lots of experience and that ended up not being the product that um you wanted in the end yes and so therefore um we felt that their approach and and facilitating you know the ability to do that and also the different approaches made more sense than who their clients have been in the past okay thank you and I think the only thing I would add is that um it seemed in some of the uh both the interview process as well as analyzing proposals that a couple of the folks that had a lot of Municipal experience it almost seemed as if their their own experience in municipal government as well as perhaps their experience with other clients going through this process was sort of steering the process more than we might like to have that um you know and and they they their understanding of where we were at was was not as clearly informed by sort of the information we provided to all of the Consultants as it was by their own their own perspective and experience and so that was a just a bit concerning as we looked at the different Alternatives and so if that helps to answer that yeah thanks great all right other questions from Council Members I don't have any questions does Mar K want to uh introduce herself and uh yep have a seat at the table and right does it matter which microphone it doesn't they just automatically pick you up all right and I still have to lower it even when I'm sitting down um I'm Mary K delvo I own inspiring site and um really honored to have the opportunity to interview with you and to potentially be have my proposal accepted I was super impressed by um the staff and council members and mayor that were as part of the interview process um this organization is very forward thinking and open minded and that is my perfect client to work with because I'm going to push and Challenge and to address your question about not having Municipal experience um in my experience not having experience in the the specialty the sector you know whatever it is um industry in many ways helps me be better at my job because I don't know how it is in the city I don't know you know I don't have those preconceived blinders on about well this is how it always works in municipalities so I come in with fresh eyes and um and I have worked with um municipalities I was I ran in a nonprofit um where a municipality was our Fiscal Agent so I worked very closely with them in that setting I was a school board member myself so while not a municipality a public you know in the public sphere the open media all the stuff that that also applies to municipalities I had to follow as a Schoolboard member as well so I'm familiar enough but I'm not mired in it um and so that that helps me bring better questions to you and my Approach is also not that um I'm going to come in and tell you what to do I'm going to come in and challenge you to make sure when you make a decision about what you're going to do you know why you made it and you can explain that to your um to your stakeholders your community members and each other and staff so I'm going to push you to really make sure that you're making decisions for the long term that all connect with your mission and um it in my experience that helps people feel really confident about the plan that they decide on there's more buyin that way and it also gives you all the Talking Points you need to share with people why you did what you did because you've really thought it through and been tested on it in advance of me making that decision all right well thank you again for being here this evening and being prepared to uh to answer questions and I will just double check with council members it looks like council member you have I have a really important thing um council member St and I are are looking forward to singing with miss gleon your partner yes so I hope she's working preparing for the TR oh she will she will she'll be and we understand that is one of the allart services that we it says so yeah sing Trio with council members we'll we'll be prepared Okay And discussing Jeopardy May I'm not very good at that I was going to say some of the rest of us some of the rest of us could join in and ruin it too so right but anyway thank you thank you uh with that uh thank you again um uh we do have the request before us to authorize uh going ahead with this consultant and obviously as Mr Tron said we would bring back a a contract and and some more information as part of that that first step in the process um so uh Council thoughts uh motion council member gra I'd make a motion to accept the uh to begin the proposal second all right it's been moved by council member gra seconded by council member straw uh discussion on the motion as the maker of the motion council member gra well there were a bunch of many things in here I that's a lot of reading I did read through them all thank you mayor and thank you council members schroer for doing that because it was a lot to sort through but I was determined to to do it because we're spending quite a bit of money and I wanted to be sure what we're doing is going to be worth it and I just want to comment on council member aton's comment because that did go through my mind too I thought I wonder why and then I thought through it and I came up with the exact answer that Mrs delvo said about um sometimes people get in you know that's their specialty and they get in a r and they said okay this is the template for this kind of a city and this is where we're going and we don't at least I don't want that I I feel like we need to have fresh eyes on this I really want this to be successful I think we as department heads and as the council have to really make a commitment here to participate strongly because this is only going to be as good as what we do as council members and as so it's going to be some work but I think the end could be very very positive so there's my long endorsement of why I'm voting for it uh and persuasive uh Council Reston as the second of the motion yes and I'd like to Echo a lot of those same sentiments but I really appreciate um both of your um ideas bringing forward as well as council member aton's um questions those were mine as well wait we are picking the one that doesn't have but it makes really good sense that we look outside of that and I think as long as it focuses on our mission as a city um I think there was just ongoing disappointment with where we left off in the past and so I'm really excited for us to do better and um I think the community requires it of us in this situation and rather than just let it be another study oh we did that now we really take it now that actually the hard work Begins for us to make sure we look ahead um and and plan well beyond the lifespan of us on this counil and I appreciate that forward thinking and the ability to maybe look Beyond just us as people on who live in Roseville but the wider community so I thank you and you you got your work cut up right thank you well don't scare away wait she didn't sign yet oh it's going to be great we're easy other other discussion on the motion council member schroer um I just want to say um and thank you for letting me be on the subcommittee it was a a really um good experience for me and I felt that um the subcommittee had different ways of looking at this and um we all had our different takes on how it came and to it and it was a lot to go through but we did multiple rounds of interviews the first one and the second one and then but to me it's it's really important the facilitation piece of it and um I just think this it is going to be a lot of hard work and you have to have who's leading this process is has to be someone strong and gentle at the same time to be able to um get this process to work because it will take time and it'll be uncomfortable at times but I think you know getting through it we can end up with a great product if if every well Rachel have to be part of a group hug but it's gonna we're gonna have some that fun times too for sure anyway I'm get you the mixer game iead of time anyways anyway so so that I feel comfortable with um who we ended up choosing because I I saw the process behind the scenes and and looked at the other vedors that and again they all had something to offer it's just this this particular approach I think is the one that's best suited for our city so that's my piece on it excellent I have nothing further to add I appreciate all your thoughts all right uh and I just wanted to note two things one is it's important uh to emphasize or acknowledge um the great starting point I think that we got from our community as a result of that effort to to update our community aspirations and the specific part about asking the community how would you measure success in these various areas because while it sort of can seem kind of nebulous at least it gets us something to focus on and try to refine and and work towards how we can actually measure our performance and that can work us then towards um what we do to get there so I think that's that's a great starting point that we have from the community and it's important to note that and I think that's that's what we'll be honoring as participants in the process is that that uh starting point that we got from the community uh and the other thing just in in terms of this decision-making process one thing that was interesting and it doesn't always happen is that I think going into the once we sort of finished the interviews and we started the discussion amongst the subcommittee I don't think any of us knew where anybody else on the subcommittee was and yet we all kind of as we were checking off our thoughts on different Consultants we sort of all ended up at the same place um and so that was just kind of interesting to see that that you know um we weren't it wasn't sort of the hive mind doing it it was more we all came from our different perspectives but we all ended up sort of with the same conclusion which probably means that it was it's the right decision for us so um I'm glad that the council is supportive of the recommendation uh and with that also longwinded uh argument in support of the motion we do have the motion before us to accept the proposal from inspiring site and proceed into the contract and the next step uh with that all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously and that is approved and we look forward to this coming back to the council shortly because there is a a calendar of things that have to start happening very soon so so clear your calendars as participants and be ready yes thank you thank you again thank you all all right that then brings us to our second business item this evening which is to receive an update from the fire department in relation to uh Staffing study uh and this is a followup on a discussion we had earlier this year as this uh topic was brought uh before the council um and I won't steal too much thunder in terms of background but I know that um initially there was some talk about we had a deadline coming up earlier this year for a potential to apply for some of the safer grant funding I believe for some potentially for additional firefighters and I think the decision was made to kind of bring it to the council for some discussion and think about the next round as how we look at that and have have a number of steps in between and so this is sort of coming back to the council as I understand it with some feedback on some of the things we talked about in our last discussion and and before I go too too much further and and get into spoilers I will turn it over to Chief BR the hand to bring this back before us thank you m own Council you're doing great I was going to let you just keep going as yeah I don't even know what the PowerPoint is so it had to stop at some point uh well thank you for allowing me the time to present and and and uh kind of discuss the deliverables of the proposals um so going off of the the May 20th Council uh meeting that that we had we were kind of directed to to go out and look for proposals for a staffing study and we received two back which I'll jump into in just a little bit so kind of the the idea behind tonight is to uh or at least my objective with with all of you tonight is to provide an overview of the two Consultants that we provide that provided deliverables and costs to perform a staffing study uh kind of go over from a very you know High overview of their methodology and process for providing a final report uh and recommendations and then discuss and decide how to best move forward and so overall my goal as I'm here tonight uh from my perspective with Council in in no way to oversimplify is we essentially have have two paths um would you like us to pursue a consultant yes or no if yes which one of the the two that we have here and if no you know what can we do as a as a group moving forward to make sure that we still are addressing uh our current understaffing and and deployment issues that we're having at the fire department meeting the the call volume demand uh with that being said um you know we're here tonight um and we talked about the May 20th meeting uh the assistant chief and I presented at at length uh to all of you in regards to call volume growth uh demand overlapping calls and we express concerns uh meeting the needs of emergency response in Roseville uh currently the 91 demand is outpacing the available fire and EMS resources and so we are at our our capacity we currently have so from that discussion Council directed me to seek deliverables and costs from Consultants that perform Staffing studies uh reached out to three total Consultants uh provided here below so citygate rais and fit Associates I did not receive any feedback uh from fit Associates so we went with the two that did um so these two provided uh proposals back to me pretty promptly um and so we you know we ask for um deliverables and essentially their their costs and they provided full proposals I know that we didn't do an official RFP process with this uh but this is what we we got from from my ask that I I had of them uh so our our Consultants that we have uh uh first one is citygate um they're out of Northern California their project manager that we'd be working closest with is uh steuart Gary um there's a bio of him in in The Proposal kind of his background and what what he's done and City he's worked with um City Gate has worked a lot in Minnesota uh provided a number of Staffing studies over the years um especially over the last 5 to eight years as you've seen more cities and municipalities transition to a full-time Staffing model uh most recently performed a study for the city of Shaka uh that study was more of an organizational holistic look at their entire fire department um as they were having some leadership response training and retention issues so not just focused on deployment and Staffing as as ours is or would be raap Tellis is our second proposal based out of Charlotte North Carolina Jonathan Ingram also included in the proposal uh would be our project manager R tell Tellis recently performed Staffing and response studies for Edina and Hopkins in just the last uh couple of years this table here is kind of a brief summation of the Del deliverables from both Consultants uh their methodologies are are slightly different overall um but really in general speaking um they're quite similar and I think the end product between either one will still be uh quite similar to to that to each other uh both would involve a lot of document and data sharing right up front through multiple inperson and virtual meetings they describe that in in their proposals so providing current and historical data on Staffing call volume budget uh our standard operating procedures and guidelines deployment model dispatch information hiring practices Etc um so it would be a big lift that first two to six weeks with with either consultant that that we choose um but you know I think uh one item to note also which I thought was interesting during the conduct fieldwork activity two for ref Tellis they do um interviews with all firefighters so one-on-one interviews with all firefighters as well with SE several City staff uh which I thought was a unique qualitative touch uh to go with kind of the the quantitative side of their their data collection so the final product would be a detailed study of Staffing and deployment needs now and into the future obviously for both of them um and obviously there would be other pieces attached to it a community risk assessment plan of recommendations as well as a road map for our implementation um and of course a presentation here in front of city council which you can ask questions and in clarifications on any items both uh Consultants are in kind of that four to six month time frame so when I originally reached out to them you know we're talking a couple months ago um it was four to six months I reached back out to both of them so we'd be ready for this presentation and and both are still on that kind of that same time frame or same timeline to to complete a full study um again they both worked with uh multiple agencies in the Twin Cities uh Hopkins completed one in September of 2023 and then shakb was uh spring of 2024 for uh for citygate the costs are are listed below as well about 68,000 um for uh citygate about 7 2004 uh raap Tellis um be honest with you it's a lot more expensive than I anticipated um and when the city manager and I had conversations back in kind of April and May leading up to the May 20th um meeting here at Council I really believe we were somewhere in that 25 to $45,000 range I think that's probably kind of the same you know area or that same uh uh idea I gave the to the council that night um because we're we were only looking for deployment and you know call volume essentially and and your number of Staffing um we weren't looking for you know GIS locations of appropriate fire stations or or anything else as far as organiz organizational uh structure or anything like that just looking for call volume and appropriate Staffing so I I beli it was more in that 25 to 45 and so it's uh it's over that uh by quite a bit and so that's something we should discuss about the return on the investment that that we have for for something like this so with that being said um I wanted to just take six or eight minutes so we' have opportunities to um you know have some have some Q&A and discussion on the two proposals that are before you uh much of the details in the RCA as well as of course the attached proposals and so with that I can open up for any questions or or items that the the council has all right thank you Chief I appreciate that um and uh one thing I just wanted to clarify too do you have a sense as to how close the scope of these proposals matches sort of which you were expecting the scope to be do you do you have a sense that there's more in there than maybe we need to have there's a touch more in both um than I think what we need to have um would that be a drastic change in the costs I don't believe so I mean I believe we can maybe take a little bit of money off that overall cost but uh I think there was a few extra things that weren't probably that necessary within the the proposals for both okay I appreciate that uh with that other council members council member strong did you this is a little snarky is Miss delvo available now this is an area where perhaps having some expertise may make may make some sense and I'd hate to put her on the spot in that regard um I just was wondering Chief um you know based on your what you were were thinking that it was going to be did you have some kind of you were just not sure or was are there other Consultants out there that you think that would be available in this price range that you're talking about I don't believe so um now asking around I reached out to uh the fire chiefs in Idina Hopkins and in South Metro which is West in South St Paul and all of them said they ran into similar experiences that I had is that they believed it' be in that 40 to 50 tops and they all paid the same amount we did or more so I don't I don't believe we can get much lower right other questions uh council member schroer um yes thank you for putting this together because I think before we could decide it was a good idea to see what what you know just like you said nobody had an idea of what what this was going to cost and and I keep thinking well what are we really getting for all this money because that's a lot of money and and when I look at the proposals all the data that they are talking about we already have and we'd have to um feed that to them and and then I also we already analyze so much of that in house ourselves so I keep thinking what more could these Consultants do that we're not already doing in house and so um I think goes back to what you originally were talking about if we should go with the consultant or not I'm wondering if we should um and and I see that's also in you know what you're asking the council to do is I wonder if it makes sense to go back and say well what can we actually accomplish most of this with our data with our our staff now without the consultant and still end up in the same place because I'm I'm not convinced to spend $80,000 is going to get us much more than what we'd get in housee but that's just you know what I was looking and maybe I'm missing something that we'd get that for that money I don't know I don't I wouldn't say there's anything that that that you're missing I think I think the biggest piece with a with a with a consultant there's one over my shoulder um I think it's more of the the validation the the third party unbiased validation outside of you know I can tell you tell I'm blue in the face that we're underst staffed and this is what our appropriate Staffing number should be you listen to me but also when all of a sudden somebody else tells you it's kind of like your kids right my my kids drive me crazy but then my you know their best friend's parents are like man your kid's the best kid in the world I'm like this kid are you sure um so I think it's that third party validation that that we get from somebody that's maybe unbiased into the the whole process that helps us the other piece to the consultant at least that that I like is is for futuristic planning I like that they at least can provide a road map so that we can kind of see um but I also think if there is a good relationship between you know the city manager the fire chief and the council I think we could also come to our own road map as well 880,000 a lot for validation it is a lot for validation you're 100% correct so anyways that's my thought council member Adon um I I agree 80,000 is a lot for validation I think M delvo has just increased her bid um because she's going to do a whole lot more work than what's outlin in this bit so um I I'm going to address the first why in this discussion uh the first split in this and I I don't see that we're getting anything near what we need to do and I would rather trust this group that's sitting here right now to make these decisions what I've heard what we've heard is the volumes keep going up it's really not a surprise we've added a lot of high density housing we've had a lot of senior high density housing we know there are more medical calls there this is part of it brings increas our tax base and sometimes and there costs that we need to incur to serve the people who are living here um so for me uh I I don't I don't see these as worthwhile i' rather put the 880,000 into delivering something for the community um delivering services to the community so I'm going to answer that I have more thoughts but maybe I'm just going to put myself there on on that side of that split all right and counil gra similar uh thoughts um 72 80,000 whatever it is is that about what it costs us to start a new firefighter it's very similar um I so we would be spending it's the salary of a of a firefighter salary then benefits then training it's it's a starting point right but I mean we it is money that will be going to this and we would most likely get the answer answer I mean I I don't know but everything I see in what we've been looking at the data that you've been bringing to us is we're going to need new firefighters I guess the only other thing and I would put this out there is you know this would probably give us a road map or a template for down the road and more of a a plan but maybe we can do that without the consultant I don't know if we can do that inhouse as council member Schroeder said or if we could do something like that cuz I would like to have that as much as we can even though we have been as Council memb and says adding a lot of housing maybe we won't be doing quite as much of that right now it looks like that's slowing down so maybe we can take a breather and and kind of make a plan for 3 to 5 years and say this is expected because when you add people there's going to be more calls that's just the way simple that that business works so those are my thoughts on it anyway well and I would just add uh to before I do a second round with Council um you know the last two or three major changes that we made in the department with the ex of the fire station location which we did a study for we did with recommendations that came sort of from internal analysis um and and and dialogue with the council and so I I appreciate the success we've had with that model of approaching things before and so that was kind of where my perspective was when we had our discussion in May um and and I think that the the check-in was just to make sure that we're not sort of off base in that in that perspective the concern I did want to check in with staff on though is you know it's one thing to say we can do it but I want to make sure that in doing it inhouse we're not sort of sacrificing something else that we need to be doing or we're putting ourselves in a place where you know our our fire department management staff is working 80 hour weeks or 8 hours more than 80 hours more than they work now yeah so so um uh you know that that's the thing I wanted to ask is just make sure we have capacities to do it with the Staffing we have uh because I think that's important to to make sure we're not setting ourselves up for some trouble in that regard so if you could maybe speak to that a little bit I appreciate that I mean and and uh you know council member sh brought it up as well as far as the the data piece I mean we already mine and use that data almost on a daily basis um through our our records management system so kind of you know re re you know building a a program and getting an idea of U call volume versus the the number of firefighters that are appropriate on a on a daily basis and providing you a strategic road map I mean I think we have the capacity to do that and it would be a project and you know incredibly important for us so it of course would be prioritized uh to something that that we want to make sure that we we can do thank you other Council memb St um two things one you know the first thing I thought was well if we had a 0 five person I newbie you know that would be covered in this 68,000 you know whatever and that maybe would be something that could free up the time for our admin to be working on this project but at the same time you're developing and growing someone new I just really do appreciate the thought of using the funds for our staff rather than for someone else I have nothing against these Consultants but I feel like we do know what we want and what we need I remember remember when I first started on the council you and I met and you I asked about the per person um rate of you know and I I just want to make sure you know that we're calculating that especially in relation to age of the person so if we say you know we're bringing in this new multi-density H you know multif family housing um but everyone's going to be over 65 so I think having a really realistic monetary value um unfortunately that's kind of kind of you know a little bit gross to be coarsed to think about it that way but also I think that is certainly something as a new housing project is going up with you know 400 units what does we can see what that impact is you had some pretty good ideas but even moving forward I'm sure now that we have the new folks and the new call volume you probably even have better statistics on that yeah the the exact number um it's probably a couple years old since we last ran a full detailed analysis of it but um what we're getting is uh 1.2 calls per unit um at nursing homes so if it's a 100 unit you know facility we get 120 calls per you at at that at that uh site for assisted living or 65 and older uh type facilities we're at about 8 uh calls per unit uh per year and then at just regular multif family is about 025 um is uh the number of calls per year per unit so it's kind of how it how it broke down but we can definitely you know work on getting um you know more firmer numbers but that's about two years old is those numbers can you relate that to single family I mean is the the 0.25 very comparable to single family in terms of per unit because it's similar population it be it'd be less than that it' be quite a bit under that okay y right but I do know I mean it's helpful for us to be able to quantify as we look at approving these new you know because I think that more than anything is helping us predict you know we are pretty landlocked our land isn't but if we take a you know a building that is currently commercial and it's turned into many units of housing suddenly I just think that's really quickly changing obviously the whole boers you know kind of like behind buyer lease yes or or or or just you know um east of Huntington bank and in Target there it was an open gr it used to be a nursing home years ago it was a grass field and now it's you know U I'm not even sure how many total units off the top of my head but yeah you know but an anticipatory of that so I think that's always going to be part of how we look ahead but I think making sure that we also are reminded you know that that's not just another additional place on a you know a spot but what does that mean and is there any way that we can share that kind of responsibility with these I don't know that there is but you know it does help to make sure that we are grounded in all the pieces it's not just a new piece of property but they come with a need for services fire and police and you know medical or whatever and especially if we are looking at already delayed and Pokey Medical Response you know as we look at larger places in the future so yeah I mean a perfect example I don't have the exact number but between the uh three new apartment buildings at the at the boers Mart area or behind ble uh we went there more than 400 times um in in 2023 so or from Fall of sorry let's see summer of 2023 to Summer of 2024 so that 12 month period of time and it's probably worth also in addition to the single family aspect of it also comparing it to commercial properties you know retail tends to have a fair number of calls now granted it's a lot more of those maybe uh on the public safety side as opposed to the fired and medical but there's no question that when you've got whatever 12 million people going to Rosedale every year they don't all go through there without having unfortunate medical emergencies or those sorts of things um so there's still there's still a factor there so you know we we need to understand kind of the whole picture there not to mention the folks that are traveling through Roseville every day who who need to be rescued from car accidents and have other medical issues so uh it's all part of the picture um I think the thing that that um that we also should mention is that in addition to adding more units of housing not all of which are senor we also just have an aging population I think I mentioned it in our May discussion as well and so that's a factor that's there even if we didn't have this this you know recent development activity which I agree we're probably sort of at the end of that cycle given we don't have a lot more land available unless there's some conversion or or additions at rosale and things like that but we we do need to sort of have a sense of what the future looks like uh council member schroer um I just wanted to Circle back to your your um comment um mayor about you know will this take up too much staff time and actually it may take up less because with these um if you look at these proposals the amount of data that would have to be put into their systems would be quite a slog so I'm thinking for what it would take to take it and put it in and give it to feed it to them I think actually in a way it might take less time because it would stay in our systems so just I just wanted to make that comment as well sure no that's a good point uh council member the chief and I exchanged a few emails today and as part of that we talk about the starting point here is probably a couple more firefighters per shift and an apparatus for them to take out right if we don't have another apparatus you're still you're just putting more people in the same vehicle that get stuck at the same previous call right so I really feel like you have a a fantastic starting point and then we see where other additions come in how much that helps bring down the per firefighter call right how many calls are they getting in their shift that's where the wear and tear comes from mhm right 100% um you know I I I want us to think about whether we're hiring EMTs instead of firefighters I know that kind of changes in a fire response but it also might take a lot of work off they can be responding to a medical emergency firefighters can go to fire you know as we look at how many total Personnel we're going to have we're going to be moving up that that chain pretty fast is there a way to use medical only people to take some of the load off of the fire specialist so I I want to think about those things but I feel like you already have pretty good idea what's going to be the first step so without doing a lot of analysis absolutely there's no way we're bring this down without another vehicle and without a couple more bodies to be on that vehicle yep it truly makes no sense for us to add Staffing to existing units this is going to be have to be an expansion of of unit or units to to meet the demand and I'm definitely glad that's being brought up too because I would like to see as part of that the the the change to the over the next 20 years you know to to fit that together you know taking advantage of some of the other savings that are coming from some of our other decision making potentially but at the same time we we definitely would have to have the have the apparatus for the the additional Staffing so important to to account for all of that in the process um so that I think it sounds like we've got the capability to do that analysis I think we at least had the very Elementary understanding of it at the last discussion because we had the tables and we could see where other departments were we could see what that you know what the math would be in terms of additional firefighters and then it just becomes I think a matter of figuring out how we phase it in so that it's not a year one 100% necessarily you know um because that can be that can be quite a shock to the budgetary system as you can imagine so um is that kind of the sense of the council then council member gr I would agree with that but I I do want to say I'm thank you for doing this anyway because it helps me clarify in my mind what the costs are and what the tra off are so this this helped me with the the decision so would the I guess we guys can discuss that but I guess what's the next steps would I come back in four to eight weeks with a plan to discuss with you or with timelines or what what would you are you suggesting you can come back in 4 to 8 weeks with I mean we don't want to say yes to that you and that it takes you you know a longer period of time we I think we can only respond right we can only respond to what you tell us you can do I think so let's start with that okay um I'll me the city manager um this week uh or tomorrow I think we have a meeting and maybe we can come up with an appropriate plan but I I think I think that would be a fair next step is to come back to us maybe at a subsequent meeting with a little more details as to a plan council member sh council member I'm sorry when is there not to exceed budget due uh end of September uh so I think September 25th 23rd meeting um although I would say what we're really trying to do is set ourselves up so we can um be in line for uh safer grant that applications in July I'm sorry in January janary um so I'm not sure we would be in a position to do anything to add to the 25 budget which will be considering right I didn't get the sense that this was a 2025 budget item necessarily other than if we get a grant to do some funding for early stages that's just really hard if you're already stretched that's why you know wanted to make we discussed in the May 20th meeting I mean we this is short and longterm it's I guess your definition of what is short-term but we we do have some short and long-term items to address but I think we can be patient and we can talk offline about approaches Let's uh try to see if we can get an agenda item then and at a subsequent meeting and you can work out kind of what the timing of that is and bring that back right great agreed any other discussion on this item are we are we steering you wrong no okay all right just want to check in and double check on that appreciate your time thank you all right thank you Chief uh thanks to everyone who's been working on this uh behind the scenes too um that concludes our business items this evening we do have a couple of items of more administrative in nature one is uh consideration of some Council and Eda minutes uh and I will note that I will have to be abstaining on the votes relative to the July 15th meeting so my suggestion was maybe we take a motion on the July 8th minutes uh for the council uh and then a subsequent motion related to the others are there any changes or corrections to the July 8th minutes or a meeting approval of the July 8th meeting minutes second it's been moved by council member Aton second and by council member schroer to approve the July 8th meeting minutes as presented uh is there any discussion on that motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously those minutes are approved uh and as to the July 15th uh Council and Eda minutes two sets of minutes uh is there a motion related to those or any changes Corrections needed to those I move approval on both second it's been moved by council member gra seconded by council member Aton to approve both sets of minutes for the 15th the council and the Eda as presented discussion on that motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I uh opposed and I abstain so that passes 4 to zero with row abstaining all right those minutes are then approved that brings us to our consent agenda uh Mr Tron if you can give us a rundown of the consent items for our consideration this evening yes thank you Mr Mayor item 10A approves payments in the amount of 1,234 438 item 10B approves three temporary liquor licenses one for alarm product Distributors at 234 1 St Cory Street for a product show on August 15th one for the friends of rosville parks for the tap in and cork event that will be held on September 13th and one for St Rose Al Lima church for a block party on September 21st item 10c approves purchases that include uh the maintenance and painting of the apparatus St at the fire station a purchase of a new Skid Steer snowblower to replace a 2005 unit the purchase of a variable frequency drive for the wall storm water lift station to better control the operation of that lift station and finally the expenditure uh there's an expenditure to replace the existing fountain at the Arboretum as noted that there we have some budgeted cost but the remainder of that will be um paid through donations variety of individuals this action also authorizes the sale of the 2010 fire engine for $135,000 item 10d receives the second quarter financial report item 10e approves the issuance of a request for proposal to solicit bids for a new recreation management software system item 10f approves granting a utility easement for RV Enterprises for fiber optic line on Fairview Avenue item 10g approves an agreement with the rosville school district for City for the city to provide two school resource officers to the Roseville schools for the 24 25 school year item 10h authorizes the mayor and city manager to execute the Fourth Amendment to the Joint cooperation agreement with Ramsey County Housing and Redevelopment Authority rville has been part of this agreement since 1985 and the county is required to renew this uh on a periodic basis from time to time this agreement will allow Roseville to receive the federal Community Development block grant funds as well as the home investment Partnership Act funds as well and finally item 10e accepts a very generous donation of $155,000 from um greine Dermatology to the fire department the donation will be spent on community programs including FES with firefighters and ashes are mental health care therapy K9 as well as other Outreach programs and that is the consent agenda all right thank you Mr T is there a motion on the consent agenda so moved second it's been moved by council member St seconded by council member ratton discussion on the motion I'd just like to um mention that um in addition to the uh donation by Trin Dermatology as a patient you um they send um text reminders of your appointment and if you are going to miss your appointment without calling in they indicate that $50 will be charged to you and go to the fire department I would assume that not 15,000 worth of people canceled their appointments without but I do know they do have a f a fund but they do have a fund but it's really nice they're BR bringing awareness into in the community and share a little bit with a link to what the fire department does for the so I just I wanted to acknowledge that it's not just a donation it's it's like a great resource to share what we're doing in our city so oh glad to know that um other uh discussion on the motion to approve the consent items hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously those items are approved or received uh that brings us to the Future agenda review uh Mr Tron once again on the future agenda yes uh just uh for the remaining uh month of August we have uh one regular meeting and a couple other special meetings so on August 16th which is a Friday we would have a quick special meeting to Canvas the primary election we'll hold that here in this room at 12:00 noon August 19th is a regular scheduled meeting we'll have the uh city manager budget presentation as well as agreeing to go update and talking about the results and talk about the next steps to get something KN regards to an ordinance on that August 20th this is a very busy week for the council uh we have a Joint School District city council meeting the meeting itself starts at 6:30 p.m. 5:30 well the yeah the the Schoolboard meeting is going to start at 5:30 uh with public comment they're going to have a quick business uh meeting at 6:00 and then our joint meaning will start at 6:30 so please make sure you try to arrive by at least 6:15 sett good advice and then finally uh in the month of August on the 21st uh potentially the 22nd would be commission interviews for the equity inclusion commission um we um only have I believe five uh that have submitted so please get the word out we're doing our part on the staff side certainly pushing that out but as you interact with folks please get them on there we may have to have a check-in on August 19th on that depending on what amount of we have so that might be we do have three meetings in September um here doing regular business as we always do in September including the budget strong last meeting of the month that's the future agenda all right thank you Mr treas and it's worth noting as we have that August 16th meeting to Canvas the primary election that is because we have a primary election coming up and and includes City of Roseville Council seats um and so we encourage folks to participate in that election I believe early voting is underway already because it's got to be if it's if it's August 13th is election day uh because we do provide in Minnesota quite a long period of of early voting um so that's at the library I think in Roseville um so we encourage people to to participate in the primary I know primaries tend to have fairly low turnout but it's important that folks voice their uh opinions through their votes uh also other announcements or Communications from council members no tomorrow night is uh night to unite um black parties throughout the city so if someone's block blocking your way go be polite and go around and uh or join the party or join the party right um mayor council member no just just on the Note um old council member reached out today uh we'll provide a map and a listing of all the um parties we'll send it out tomorrow than Google Map so you can refer to it so thank you okay okay council member um I realized that we're not going to have a regular meeting before this so on Saturday August 17th um 11:00 a.m. I don't help you run it 11:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. is the rice and larpenter summer block party which is a great time uh lots of uh Services kid activities a climbing wall um local uh food and it'll be great and are we having music again from the folks at weski Blue Saloon I met their owner just this last week at the new Cancun Cantina across street going to be in the parking lot like it's been in the parking lot yep yep it's a great great Community event it really seems to be helping to bring that those three cities that neighborhood together as a community council member strong um I'd like to add uh they had one meeting so far for Lexington Park's uh Park rebuild for next year and um lots of good impa input um for the playground Reb for the playground um and uh including three or four young people with very strong opinion so it was really enjoyable um but they will be um kind of coming back with their two top um display items at the uh Party in the Park are discover your parks on August 14th so encourage people to go um that'll be at Lexington Park it'll be at Lexington Park and even if it rains and the Discover your Parks event is CLO is cancelled inside the park building will be this um kind of getting near the end piece so make sure if you have um an opinion or you have things that you'd like to see and kind of make a Cho help make the choice between the two but there's some pretty exciting designs on there and again we've had some great um Maria and Thor I believe are their names who are helping with um the accessibility um pieces to it and um they're really impactful and and um Mr Matt Johnson is doing a fabulous job as he does all right other announcements or communication I just thought we should mention that the equity inclusion manager did send out a very nice flyer about the openings on the commission so pass those along to people or post them if you can and it can be it's got graphics you can put it on social media and it's got the you can do the scan on there and get all the information and that's for our equity and inclusion we have those to take with us to block party for I think that's a question for Mr drenon I don't have any right now we can get some for you them off okay and it isn't it is a printable thing because I did print it off some on mic but we can them off make easier that'd be great we can BR with us tomorrow uh if there aren't any further announcements or Communications I did want to just as a point of personal privilege thank acting mayor gra for filling in in my absence my unintended absence uh on the 15th and then my intended absence on the 22 so I appreciate that and uh all all reports are that the meetings went well and that you did a good job so appr finished early pleased with that we really like him really you got to be careful when you're out of town this is why I'm Not absent right pay the price with that if there's no further business before the council this evening the only other item on our agenda is a motion to ad second it's been moved by Council M gra seconded by Council M drawn to adjourn no discussion on a motion to adjourn all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that pass is unanimously unanimously and we are adjourned at 6:56 p.m. thank you