This transcript is from a Planning Commission meeting. Based on the context provided and the names mentioned within the dialogue, I have identified the speakers (including the Commission Chair, specific Commissioners, and City Staff). **Note:** The "Chair" is identified in the dialogue as **Commissioner Kurtz**. [0:01] [Music] [0:54] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** good evening and welcome to the Planning Commission meeting of June 21st 2023 the first item of business is the approval of the agenda any changes from staff [1:10] **Tim Benetti (Community Development Director):** Madam chair members of commission we have no changes at this time [1:15] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** any changes from commissioners it was moved by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed name motion carries the next item on the agenda is three and that is the consent agenda items are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion without discussion [1:41] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** unless a commissioner or a citizen request to have any items separately considered it will then be moved to the land use action items for consideration can I get a motion to approve minutes of June 7th 2023 regular meeting [1:57] **Commissioner Schindler:** so moved [1:58] **Commissioner Scanlon:** second [1:59] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** motion was made by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon any comments or discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed Nate motion carries brings us to number four public hearings which there are none tonight so we will go on to number five which is the land use action items by The Higher Ground daycare conditional use permit and a site plan building permit authorization [2:27] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** presenters Alex Sharp [2:42] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** thank you chair as noted this is uh we are seeking two actions this evening one is a recommendation on the conditional use permit and the second is on a site find building permit authorization for a small addition at 14605 Glacier Avenue you're familiar with the site you just saw it on June 7th for reference the site to the South was um created in 2019 through a subdivision and is also a conditional use for it for a daycare it's Hardin Academy 107 the public hearing was held there were a couple of comments you've got some staff responses back within the staff memo the two main comments that the public hearing were about traffic on 145th onto [3:27] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** Cedar and about the type of land use specifically I wanted to linger on this screen for the type of land use the city sets or the zoning is limited business and the city sets the zoning but does not determine the number of uses of a specific business with us within the city so two day cares would be permitted adjacent to one another that is not dictated by the zoning code there were a couple of changes to the site plan uh mainly clarifications since the public hearing the big item you'll note on the Eastern side of the site is some storm water pieces these are still being finalized as the engineers work to determine exactly how much water will need to be treated essentially the applicant needs to treat [4:13] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** the water from the disturbance area which is just the 755 square foot Edition the couple of playgrounds and a couple of sheds so there's not a lot of disturbance in comparison to most of our sites thus this won't need of extensive rain Garden or extensive storm water system a rain Garden will likely be able to suffice we may not need to have the two rain Gardens as shown on this plan you'll see one on the Middle Island and on the southern island it may be that only a single one is required right now that is something that the applicant is working with the city engineer on to determine just on the total amount of flow that will be needed the Civil plan has not been updated yet that is one of the items that staff is seeking for updates as they finalize their storm water system we will want to see that prior to city council action [4:59] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** however it is the same that the Planning Commission saw at the prior meeting the landscape plan has been updated mainly to update some species we are going to be looking for a little bit of additional clarity just on which trees are existing which trees are being planted and what new Landscaping is being added as right now it's difficult to discern additionally uh we we still strongly encourage looking at some of the health of the species we've done a site visitor natural resource the staff has done a site visit and there are some problematic species with Buckthorn and some dead trees on the site they may be on some of the adjacent sites as well particularly to the north as that property line is a clearly marked and maybe somewhere in between that so they will need once they get the property line staked for the project do a health assessment or all the trees and remove [5:45] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** any of the adverse species or scrub species that have come up prior to city council action for just a little bit additional detail we did get an updated planning schedule we have one item that I noted in the staff report and in the city Engineers report we would like to see one species changed as it is an invasive within this area it is commonly used however it can lead to additional invasives this species in particular in itself won't be a problem but it may uh propagate in additional species that are already here so this is a species that is man-made and it it can help propagate others that are already here rather than this one likely [6:31] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** wouldn't spread in itself there were some minor changes that have occurred to the interior floor plan these are still being finalized Planning Commission and staff are not typically viewing at this level of detail so the total square footage of every room can adjust we know that we have enough in parking as noted previously we're over double parked on the site one other item with that that I wanted to mention is if for some reason the site plan were to be amended to bump out some of that rain Garden into two of the parking stalls say on the western side of I'm gonna scroll back just so you can see what I'm referring to into say these two parking stalls here the site would still be adequately parked for the use as there is more than [7:18] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** double the parking requirement and we haven't even done a what we refer to as a net out the areas that are hallways utility rooms spaces that don't actually require parking for the building's use which we typically do on most structures uh the upstairs again was slightly amended some hallways were added some additional rooms um uh but ultimately this is relatively minor and can still be adjusted prior to the building permit I'm going to scroll back to the overall view here momentarily uh to answer the question on traffic the city engineer had a pretty extensive response within the staff memo there is also the city Engineers level with the full traffic study the long and short of it is this [8:04] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** area was studied with cider Ridge and with this property at full use and with Hardy in at full use while there is going to be a reduction in level of service turning left southbound onto Cedar from 145th it just goes from a b to a c which means it would take around 35 extra seconds so it's not significant but you may end up having to wait through an additional light essentially so the area was studied extensively at that time and was found to be adequate [8:36] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** the exterior building has not been amended since the prior or since Planning Commission side of public hearing they are matching materials the one piece that staff has wanted to note is that two sheds were noticed on the plan they were noted as green on the plan previously so I did not note them until they were called out that was some of the additional detail we were looking for one of these boxes on the plan and those two sheds will need to meet the material standards of the building similar to how the trash enclosure does so the applicant has provided the details in the trash enclosure and the details on the aluminum fence there were no concerns about noise so staff has not made a recommendation for opaque fencing or solid barrier fencing to block noise particularly to the neighborhood of the East [9:21] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** since that was not something that was required for hardine and was suggested here but the neighbors and planning tuition did not express concerns over that so we have not included included that condition we will look prior to city council action for the same type of details we've gotten on the dumpster for those two sheds we would allow for asphalt shingle proof but we would seek to have something similar enclosure that you're saying with that if there are any questions I believe the applicant is present this evening they are from Higher Ground we do have two actions that we are seeking a recommendation on from the Planning Commission [10:01] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** Commissioners any questions for Alex well I want to be educated on some so I'm going to ask you a question about I'm assuming a rain Garden is just what it sounds like but can you go into detail a little bit about what a rain Garden really does or looks like [10:19] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** sure Kurtz I'm gonna do my best with that um I'm certainly not the expert on it and it's been some time since I've actually studied it essentially what their attempt to do is uh have drought tolerant and then flood tolerant plants they're a low spot in the ground where the water is able to pool and essentially be retained for a period of time and hopefully soak in the ground water or be soaked into those plants rather than needing to flow off site we have rain Garden program here with the city of Apple Valley so if you really want to get into it you can actually receive a grant through our national resources department to put one in your yard they are a good way of treating storm water before it gets hopefully to the street essentially I think they're becoming more popular over time I wouldn't know the number I know that we do probably around six to eight grants a year [11:09] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** interesting thank you thank you [11:15] **Commissioner Wald:** chair Alex with respect to I know that the concern was expressed and it's been addressed with respect to um left turns off of Cedar Avenue if for some reason that becomes a problem with the duration of the light is that something that is continually studied and adjusted should there be a need for a longer lifetime or something like that [11:47] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** chairman oh well I'm going to defer to the assistant city engineer on that I know it does require coordination with Dakota County as they manage Cedar sure so there isn't a little bit of a difficulty because they're managing Cedar and then City roadway [12:08] **Brandon Anderson (City Engineer):** Madam chair commissioner uh yeah basically what Alex said we would defer to Dakota County to manage the street light and the timings the study that we did in 2019 for the development would have been just to evaluate those buildings at full capacity and since they'll be at full capacity we've kind of stated that no additional mitigation would be required at this time and then anything moving forward would would pass through Dakota County likely we would get the complaint or concern and then we would work with Dakota County but they would lead any charges um just with Cedar Avenue being such a major thoroughfare [12:35] **Alex Sharp (City Staff):** thank you chair Kirch Kurtz commissioner Wald I spoke with the neighboring property Jardine about this as well one of the key points that I expressed to them that I think is important on the traffic side of things is a basic rule of thumb is you don't the last user into an area is not responsible for all of the mitigation as it comes in you need to mitigate when your traffic pushes it over and this is not going to be a high traffic user in comparison to say the coffee user that warranted that traffic study [13:17] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** anyone else if not what is the notion if anybody wants to make one [13:20] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair I recommend approval of conditional use permit for a daycare facility at 14605 Glacier Avenue subject to conditions in the draft resolution [13:35] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [13:37] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** motion made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed name motion carries [13:51] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair I recommend approval of a site plan in building permit authorization for a 700 755 square foot Edition to 14605 Glazier Avenue subject to conditions in the draft resolution [14:04] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [14:06] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** motion made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye aye opposed nay motion carries [14:29] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** next on our agenda tonight is 5B and that is Percy window well variance and presenter is Kathy Bodmer [14:40] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** good evening Madam chair commissioners Kathy will usually give her yeah the presentation too fast I'm sorry I'll give the presentation and then they'll probably have questions and then ask for your input so um this is a request for a window well variants as the chair stated Syed Hersey is requesting a variance to decrease the side yard setback for two window wells on the east side of his home from five feet to three feet the petitioner recently purchased the property at 150th Street West or County Road 42 the frontage road there the property is zoned our three single-family residential which is our typical residential zoning designation in the city and the section 155 333 states that window wells must be no closer than five feet from a side property line um what the the applicant wishes to do is [16:04] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** to construct two 36 inch deep so he would be encroaching into that five foot area so that's the reason for the request the property is planted as Lot 19 block 3 of Bob's Garden View Third Edition this Development Area is one of the first neighborhoods of Apple Valley and you'll note that along the east side property line there's no drainage in utility easement so any variants there would not be a need to encroach into a drainage in utilities but so an area map just to kind of show what's Happening the house is located six feet from the side property line um and this is kind of a difficult to see so I'll keep going here the the three foot window well then would require two foot variants um one of the notes that I have is that the the house was constructed in 1963 and was set back to the side property line in compliance with the ordinance at that time so the six foot setback meets the requirements of the zoning code however if this house were to be built today that setback would be required to be 10 feet and the variance wouldn't be needed unfortunately [17:35] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** um so construction plans showing um kind of the layout again of the the two existing basement windows and then the the stats on what is being proposed for the new egress windows it's a little bit difficult to see but there are two basement windows there on that East Elevation and then this is a closer view so you can see that the the siding or the the stucco side of the house has been modified to accommodate those basement windows so what the petitioner is asking to be able to do is simply extend that working with his contractor to to place the the windows there on that East Side in order to Grant a variance a City reviews the requirements for practical difficulties the applicant proposes to use the property in a reasonable manner not permitted by the zoning code circumstances are unique to the property the variants will not alter the essential character of the locality and economic considerations alone do not constitute practical difficulties so after getting through the definition then we look at factors this is another kind of set of tests or criteria that we review special conditions apply to the structure will not be contrary to the intent of the chapter do not result from actions of the owner applicant granting them the variance is not simply a convenience but is necessary to alleviate a practical difficulty and the variance requested is the minimum variance necessary [19:15] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** two Alternatives were discussed as part of this request one would be to construct no bedroom windows but the fact of the matter is the bedrooms are in the basement today so the building official when he worked with the homeowner and and did his inspection found that the the basement bedrooms have been there for a long time so it's not a new thing in what the variants would do would be to allow the the homeowner to bring that into compliance or to make it a safer condition the second alternative would be to construct the windows on the front and the back of the home the back of the home is a challenge because the the side yards are narrow as we discussed so it'll be difficult to get equipment back there there's um uh air conditioning unit there's electric that would have to be worked around um in the front um the the concern is kind of the Aesthetics and um the fact that um more structural work would have to be done to cut into that siding in order to get the windows to um into the home or to construct them so with that Madam chair um staff did make some findings based on the facts of the case and we offered these for the planning commission's recommendation or consideration the Hershey home was constructed in 1963 and met the building in setback requirements of ordinance number two for the town of Lebanon um two basement windows are currently located on the east side of the home as we've discussed and the two bedrooms already exist in the basement today so the variance would allow the new homeowner to place the home in a safe condition and with that I'd be happy to take questions we are recommending approval of the variants [21:40] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** so Kathy does the bedrooms need to be changed over to those windows then to over there or are they just fine where they are [21:51] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** the bedrooms are fine where they are it's just the installation of the new windows makes them legal okay under today's code okay [22:04] **Commissioner Pruitt:** yeah thank you chairman Kurtz and and Kathy quick question on the uh increased size I anticipate there would be well covers uh included over the top to prevent any body from falling in in the theme of uh safety [22:20] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** yes um commissioner I'll ask the petitioner to address that there would have to be some measure of protection and I'm sure so um he'll he can it explain that in a little more detail thank you [22:36] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** does any commissioner have any more questions for Kathy nope would you like to come up your turn now [22:45] **Brad (Contractor):** hi hi I'm Brad I own USA Builders and remodelers and I was contracted to do the work on this house um this is a County job I'm not sure if you're familiar with the CDA they'll allocate funds up to a certain amount for people to fix up their homes if they're low income and that is a situation here and we really can't move these windows to the back because of the air conditioner back there in the electrical um and the front it just wouldn't look right facing the street like that there's already two windows there that exist right now so that would be the ideal place to put them to make the windows bigger bigger and there'll be legal egress windows so they can get in and get out of in case there's a fire there is children that are living in those bedrooms right now and um I don't think the homeowner really understands totally what's going on with this but the county does and that's why they're recommending that we put two egress windows in there any questions [24:08] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair can you address out the question that we just had with uh covers and how that would be [24:19] **Brad (Contractor):** the covers that are put on there they have to be able to lift off so a child can get out of it so the covers are just a plastic cover the cover is really mainly what they do is they keep from debris and water going back down into the hole okay curiosity but the covers is I guess a personal choice isn't it I mean I have personally it is yes personal there is a personal choice absolutely so thank you that's it nothing else nothing else for me [24:50] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** okay thank you I think it changes things when it's a safety issue yes [24:58] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** um and Madam chair to follow up what you're saying uh one of the things that we were concerned about is that it looked like there was sidewalk along the house here and if there was a pedestrian way then there would have to be fencing um so the the building official did review that um so that will not be needed in this case so [25:21] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Kathy one quick question notice at the end of the report that it uh it talks or staff memo it talks about this is consistent with other window well variances that have been granted in the last few years [25:38] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** yes [25:39] **Commissioner Scanlon:** and as it for similar reasons like this that that they have been granted [25:42] **Kathy Bodmer (City Staff):** yes so this is consistent with what's been done before yeah um so the the fact that the house is sitting at six feet seems to be a common theme um and the very um the the smallest measurement the building official will allow to uh the property line is three feet so the fact that they're six feet available really is is uh nice um situation so yeah the other two window well variances um I believe the the facts of the case were very much the same um and again set at six feet rather than ten [26:21] **Commissioner Scanlon:** chair I recommend approval of the variance to reduce the side yard setback from five feet to three feet two foot variants to install two egress window wells on the east side of the subject home based on the findings listed below items one through three and subject to the conditions listed below items one through two [26:45] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [26:47] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** motion made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed name motion carries great thank you you're welcome you're welcome brings us to number six other business [27:08] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** Mr Tim Benetti [27:10] **Tim Benetti (Community Development Director):** thank you madam chair just a reminder your next meeting is not until July 19th which is normally that we have a meeting in the first week but because the July 4th holiday you are getting a week off so enjoy it well we'll see you on the 19th and also on August 2nd our Council meetings are the 13th of July followed by July 27th and fall back to July 4th reminder I just want to wish everyone a very happy Fourth of July weekend for you and all your families safe travel if you are traveling or if you're staying in the city have fun understand this city puts on one heck of a show I'm going to see if I can come over here if you happen to see me stumbling around around uh Rascals or somewhere please uh taking the fact that I'm off the clock and that uh I hope to remember you it comes down to that and once you come here for the fourth you'll never go anywhere else so okay put on a good party I hope so me too no and that's all I have and if you have any more questions feel free to contact us whenever you need to [28:10] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** thank you motion will be adjourned [28:15] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [28:16] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** made by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon all those in favor signify by saying aye aye [28:22] [Music] [29:08] **Commissioner Kurtz (Chair):** thank you