Good afternoon. It is February 18th. Thank you for joining us for formal. We'll begin today with an invitation and a special recognition for a member of our city of Phoenix employee family from police chaplain Jim Williams. >> Thank you, Mayor. Would you join me in a moment of silence for Susan Hawkins, the municipal court hearing officer, and her family. Thank you. Now, would you join me in a prayer of invocation, inviting God to join us in our meeting today? Lord, I come to you reaching out and requesting your participation in our city council meeting today. I lift up to you, our mayor, our council, and their staff members. I believe you've selected and anointed each one of these leading leadership people. And for that, Lord, I give you thanks. These are precious and willing individuals that constantly share their leadership and talents with us in the city. Father, I ask you to draw the mayor and council close to you, granting them favor, washing them in your wisdom and discernment as only you can. Lord, I ask that you protect all of our city leaders and our city employees, thus keeping them healthy and safe. And Lord, I thank you in advance for your grace, discernment, and love. Extending to our mayor, our city council, and to you, Father, we give you all the praise and all the glory. Amen. >> Thank you so much, Chaplain Williams. Vice Mayor Haj Washington will lead us in the pledge. I pledge [clears throat] allegiance flagis and justice for all. >> We'll now call the meeting to order. Will [clears throat] the clerk call the role? >> Councilwoman Guardo, >> here. >> Councilwoman Anandez here. Councilwoman O'Brien >> here. >> Councilwoman Pastor >> here. >> Councilman Robinson >> here. >> Councilwoman Stark >> here. >> Councilman Wearing. >> Vice Mayor Haj Washington >> here. >> Mayor Gayo >> here. >> Mario Bahas and Elsie Dwarte are with us to provide Spanish interpretation. Mario, would you introduce your team? >> Yes, mayor. Thank you. As already mentioned, uh I'm Mario Vahas. I'll be working with Etsy as Spanish interpreters for our Spanish speaking residents. I'll take a moment now to introduce ourselves to our Spanish speaking audience and also review a couple of guidelines. Thank you, mayor. >> Thank you so much. Will the city clerk read the 24-hour paragraph? The titles of the following ordinance and resolution numbers on the agenda were available to the public at least 24 hours prior to this council meeting and therefore may be read by title agenda item only. Ordinances number G7471 and S52517 52595 through 52626. >> Thank you so much. Will the city attorney explain the role of public comment? >> Yes. Thank you, mayor. Members of the public may speak for up to two minutes to comment on agenda items. Comments must be related to the agenda item and the action being considered by the council. General comments go beyond the scope of the agenda item should be made during the citizen comment session at the end of the agenda. The city council and staff cannot discuss or comment on matters related to pending investigations, claims, or litigation. Additionally, any member of the public who appears before the council in their capacity as a lobbyist must, as required by Phoenix City Code, disclose this fact before addressing the council. City code states that speakers must express their comments respectfully and courteously. Use of profane language, threats, or personal attacks on members of the public, council members or staff are not allowed. Such comments are disruptive and unrelated to the council's business. Any person who violates these rules may lose their opportunity to speak further and could be asked to leave. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. And with public comment and at the end of the meeting, Blue Crowley, as promised, will be going first. Uh item number one is boards and commissions. Vice Mayor, do we have a motion? >> Yes. Motion to approve the mayor and city council's boards and commission nominations. >> Second. >> Second. >> Motion is second. Any comments? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Passes unanimously and we will now conduct a swearing in ceremony. Please raise your right hand. >> I state your name. I, Ruben Knock, >> do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution and laws of the state of Arizona >> and the Constitution and laws of the state of Arizona. >> That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same >> that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. >> and defend them against all enemies >> and defend them against all enemies, >> foreign and domestic. >> foreign and domestic. And that I will faithfully and impartially >> And I will faithfully and impartially >> discharge the duties of the office of >> discharge the duties of the office of >> North Mountain Planning Commission. Village Planning Commission. >> North Mountain Village Planning Commission. >> According to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Congratulations, Commissioner. >> Thank you. Congratulations, Ruben. Next, we go to the liquor license portion of our agenda. We provide an advisory role to the state of Arizona. Vice Mayor, do we have a motion? >> Motion to approve items 2 through 12, except for item 12. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Nay. We next go to agenda item 12, which is in Councilman O'Brien's district. It is the 27th Avenue Market. Uh, Councilwoman, uh, would you like to make a motion or hear a presentation >> or hear from the the public speaker? We have one speaker, please. >> All right. Ismael, if you could come forward, please. Marked in support. Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of the council. My name is Ishmael Abusha, and I'm the applicant for the series 10 liquor license for the property located at 8617 North 27th Avenue. This location was previously operated under a series 9 since 1983, and this license continues to be valid till today. A valid license is a license that has not been revoked, suspended, or transferred. And Circle K can activate their liquor license today and start selling hard liquor with no questions asked. As of now, this building has already cost us over half a million dollars, and the homeless already vandalized all my HVAC units and compressors for my walk-in coolers. Keeping the building vacant will not do any good to the community or to the city. The street transportation department notified me that we are within 300 ft of a nearby school. After doing some research, I pulled up the Arizona Revide statute 4-207 subsection number five that allows a number 10 license if there's a valid license at the location, which it's still valid today. I proactively engaged with key community stakeholders. I met with community leader Jeff Spelman, Alta Vista Blockwatch community organizer Carlina Garza, 19 North community Alliance security collaborator which is Shannon McBride, Phoenix Police Liquor and abatement officer Javon Brown, as well as neighbors and surrounding community members. We even executed a neighborhood agreement to ensure the safety of the community. My goal is to operate a responsible community oriented business that contributes positively to the area. I am committed to working closely with law enforcement, neighborhood leaders, and nearby residents to ensure the property is well-managed, safe, and asset to the corridor. I respectfully ask the city council to recommend approval of this series 10 license. Thank you for your time and consideration. >> Thank you so much. And then we have our our new commissioners getting to work quickly. Uh Ruben is available to speak if necessary. Ruben, would you like to speak? Where'd he go? >> What? >> Okay, you're marked. We should mark him in support. All right. Thank you so much. I'll turn it to Councilwoman O'Brien. >> Thank you, Mayor. And I I I appreciate all the work you have done with the community. Um, with that understanding, I recommend or I move to make no recommendation. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> yes. >> Wearing. >> Hodge Washington? >> Yes. >> GGO? >> Yes. >> Passes 90. >> All right. Thank you. That concludes the liquor license portion of our agenda. City clerk, are we ready for ordinances? Ordinances, resolutions, new business, planning, and zoning. >> Yes, mayor. >> Vice Mayor, do we have a motion? >> Yes. Motion to approve items 13 through 48 except the following items 13, 15, 21, 24, 26, and 30. And can the clerk confirm if there are any other items that should be excluded for inperson public comment? >> Yes, mayor, vice mayor. also excluding items 19, 36, and 37. >> Second. >> Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Roll call. >> Ward, >> yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark Wearing, >> yes. >> Hodge Washington, >> yes. >> VGO, >> yes. passes 90. >> Item 13 is a settlement of a claim. A claim 13. >> Okay. Uh do we have a motion on item 13? >> Motion to approve item number 13. >> Second. >> Councilman Hernandez. >> Thank you, Mayor. Just have a couple questions for uh probably PD and staff. Um this is a second settlement payout that has been brought to the council in the last few months related to uh Phoenix police officers driving behaviors. We had a speeding case where the officer hit the resident and the resident's leg was broken in the collision and now uh we have this one. Um so just have a couple questions for the chief um in more general terms. Thank you chief for joining us at the table. Um, when these incidents happen, what improvements are taken back to the overall department? >> Mayor, members of council, council Hernandez, when something like this happens, we have a supervisor respond to the scene to do the initial investigation, take photographs, interview all the parties involved, and then we create a report, an internal investigation. So the officer just served the notice of investigation is interviewed about what occurred and then that that is taken and that is sent to our dis or driving analysis committee. It's a group of people that are in the traffic bureau and they look over all that information. Driving instructors as well are on that committee and they look for any ways we could have avoided that and that's how we look at future training, future opportunities and if we notice any kind of patterns then we'll address those patterns with the entire department. >> Okay. Thank you so much for that. Um, you kind of delved a little bit into that. My my next question was going to be how are we learning from these mistakes and improving officer driving driving behavior um across the whole department. So, can you elaborate a little bit more on that? >> Yeah. >> Do you just share like once you have those you just mentioned in future training opportunities? So, that goes departmentwide. >> It does. We we look at trends. We look at issues and we look at our training to make sure they align that. make sure our training is teaching officers how to drive safely, be cautious, and if we see trends trending one way where there's an issue, then we'll address those through additional training. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, and specifically for the officers that are involved in car accidents like this before they're returning uh before they return to driving um it sounds like you kind of partially answered my next question. What training do they do they have to participate in? So would they go through this new training again or before they get back on the road? >> Mayor, members, council, council. Yes. What what what we do is we do training as a whole for a department. So we do a basic training at the beginning when officers are in the academy and then we try to do additional advanced officer training throughout the lifetime of an officer's career. Um if we did notice that someone would had an issue with say with backing, say they they backed into a pole, um accidents happen, that's what they're called accidents. But if there's a reason for that or we think they have a deficiency in a skill set, we would look to bring them out to the academy and have them work with an individual instructor. So we do look at the totality of the actual collision in general. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. And um just my final question, can um uh are I mean how are officers held accountable for their roles in this? It sounds like you've you've already spoke a little bit to that that you look at the totality of the events. You go back and look you have the investigators on the scene that respond. Um is that just any am I missing anything there? >> No, the the investigation is fully vetted, fully fully investigated. It goes to our driving analysis committee who decides whether the action of the officer was in policy or out of policy. If they're out of policy, then discipline normally follows. In this case, it was a supervisory counseling. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Um, and I think you already walked through the disciplinary process, but I'm not sure. Um, can you is there anything you can add on the disciplinary process for driving violations? >> It's no different than any other violation. It it would just go to whatever the the the misconduct or the violation of policy would be and what that accordingly is is set forth in our policy for discipline. >> Okay. Thank you. >> This was this was a first offense >> traffic violation. So was supervisory counseling. >> Okay. Thank you so much, Chief. Uh those are all my questions. Um I you know it's important for for me that we work to assure that these type of accidents stop happening. Uh we have to hold our officers to a high driving. um standard because we do give them license to use their vehicles differently and you know we need to improve our trust with the community by clearly illustrating um changes in behavior among our officers. So ultimately this goes further than lawsuit payouts. It's just really important about the safety for all of our residents. So thank you so much for answering my questions. Thank you mayor. >> Thank you. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> yes. >> Wearing >> Hodge Washington, >> yes. >> VGO, >> yes. >> Passes 90. >> Item 15 is a public hearing for the proposed 19th Avenue and Alama Road annexation. We will open the public hearing. We do not have any members of the public to close the hearing, so I will I'm sorry. We do not have any members of the public to comment during the hearing, so I will close the hearing. Uh there's no vote required today. Do any council members have a comment? All right, seeing none, I will go on to 19, which is Camelback and 15th Avenue. It's property acquisition for our streets department. Do we have a motion? >> Motion to approve item 19. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. Blue Crowley is here to provide comment. give you a little history on that area. I was an Alhamra Village planning committee member and it's right in the heart of Alhamra Village. I want to thank Laura that in your district we are looking at and adjusting some of the uh discrepancies on the ADA and making sure we've got curb cuts and cuts that in that area. How long ago should it have been done? Well, we'll just leave that on the table. But I also look at that area and all of the different transit options. And one of the ones is there's a bus on 15th Avenue. Is the infrastructure also there? How many bus stops aren't up to status quo? It's just a thought, y'all. you know, um, and if that is that there have to be 36 individuals stopping there to get an actual bus and shelter, that's BS because what we need to do is get the system out there. So, when I see the total discrepancy in the amount of bus acquisitions that are supposed to be going on, as in with the uh, MAG Prop, what is it? 469 that states that light rail gets how much and how much is supposed to go to the bus. Well, in the past with the leadership of Ed over there, rail got most of all the monies that were over there at the RPTA and uh continuously I asked, "Where's the buses? Where's the buses? Why couldn't you do it according to what was supposed to be done?" And that way we've got buses and the bus stops. Thank you. Thank you so much. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> yes. >> Wearing, >> yes. >> Hajj, Washington, >> yes. >> GGO, >> yes. >> Passes 90. Item 21 is amendments to our city's combined classification pay ordinance and the 20 2026 05 recommendations. Do we have a motion? >> Motion to approve item 21. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. So, this would allow increased compensation for certain employees. We do have uh one comment on this. Tyler Smith, the floor is yours. Uh, good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, and council members. Um, my name is Tyler Smith, and I serve as a senior program supervisor one with the city of Phoenix Human Services Department. Um, myself and my colleagues have taken our personal time to be here today to discuss this uh matter. Some of you also may know me as the president of the city of Phoenix LGBTQ employee alliance and allies employee resource group. Um I'm here today speaking on behalf of the eight senior program supervisors who are present with me and representing all 15 senior program supervisors who serve residents across the city of Phoenix. We are here because we deeply uh care about the work we do and about the residents we serve every day. We manage city facilities that serve thousands of older adults. For many of our members, our senior centers are not just recreation sites. They are lifelines. They are places where seniors receive meals, social connection, health resources, and support during some of the most vulnerable stages of their lives. Our role goes far beyond programming activities. We supervise staff and volunteers. We manage public budgets and ensure fiscal accountability. We oversee facility safety and ADA compliance. We provide case management to our seniors. We coordinate with community partners and outside agencies. And we also implement monthly and weekly special events with hundreds of members in attendance. But we also carry specialized responsibilities that are unique and deeply personal. All senior program supervisors are dementia friendly certified. That that that means we we receive specific training to work effectively with individuals living with Alzheimer's and dementia and to support their caregivers who are often overwhelmed and searching for help. We facilitate monthly memory cafe programs to create safe, welcoming spaces for those families. We also maintain food manager certifications to oversee congregate meal programs, ensuring health code compliance and safe food service for hundreds of seniors each day. These are not small profitabilities. They require leadership training regulatory knowledge and compassion. Despite this, our position remains classified at pay grade 059. Sorry. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for your important work on behalf of the city and thank you to all of your colleagues. Councilman Hernandez. >> Thank you, Mayor. Just have a quick question, Tyler. Are you supportive of the agenda item? I think you might have been getting to that point at the end of your testimony. Are you supportive of the agenda item? >> I'm um we're opposing the suggested pay grade at 052. We're advocating for a higher pay grade. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilman Pastor. >> Hi. Uh thank you, Mayor. Um I first want to recognize um our HRC committees or those that um serve our seniors. Uh I have witnessed in uh at least at Adam Diaz and at the Chinese Cultural Center uh the care that happens to our seniors and how they are guided uh especially those that are um need a little extra hand and help. So I I want to want to acknowledge and thank you for that. Um secondly I want to ask we've been um we have done this several times of classification paid ordinances uh over maybe the last several months. Um my question is when these are areas are reclassified and uh they have a range at what point do those employees in the re reclassification um are reclassified and start receiving the money or who determines that? >> Thank you. Good afternoon mayor members of council. Um, Councilwoman Pastor, if I understand your question, you're asking with regard to specific employees uh, pay grades that have been regraded, who then determines whether or not they move up into the new grade? Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Well, the incumbents would automatically move up along with the new paygrade increase. And because this increase is one of um an odd number of steps uh the way that our step plans are designed, this would equate to a two approximately 2 and a half% increase for each of these individuals. >> But when it when we pass these items, does HR go in and say, "Okay, your grade is I'm going to make up a grade. Your grade currently is 12, but the reclassification moved to 14 and now we're going to reclassify from a 12 to a 14. Does HR automatically do that or does uh a director determine that? How does this play out? >> So the pay grade itself is attached to the p the specific classifications. So when that classification is regraded, then it would be automatic. It's not it wouldn't be up to an individual director or somebody to say you know these people will move in other others will not. It would be everybody in that classification. >> Okay. So everybody in that classification will automatically automatically >> correct >> and then sometimes we do it in a range or we classification 15 say is 20 20 and um we have now voted on a reclassification of a range from maybe 20 to 60. then who determines that? >> So our our system is actually a system of step increases as you're aware with approximately 5% between each step. So the the when you see the beginning and the end of that range if you will it is actually the lowest step and the highest step and each individual would move along in those steps with their with their normal with their normal increase. Oh, so for for the open ranges, um those classifications that's determined by employees individual MAP scores, which is an annual process handled by the city manager's office. >> Okay. So, it's determined when that happens, it's determined by their MAT scores, which I'm assuming that's their evaluation. >> That's correct. That's >> So, it's determined by their evaluation and what's on their evaluation, and then it's determined by the city manager. Is that correct? >> The city manager has the final authority on that. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Councilwoman Stark. >> Um, can I can Tyler come back up for a minute? I'm sorry. I should have asked this when he was up here. I apologize. So, first off, for the record, I know Tyler quite well. and uh he is beloved by the senior center in my district and I think he did an excellent uh uh speech in explaining what they do. They have a very important role. So I want to just turn you and Tyler what do you feel your grade should be >> not to put you on the spot but I'm sure you thought about this. >> Thank you councilwoman. Um yes. So we um as a as a collective as a senior program supervisor ones feel we should be at the pay grade um in the range of 059 to 061. Um that's just because of the uh comparison positions such as case worker 3es and recreation coordinator threes that are very similar to what we do in our positions. >> So I guess I'm prejudiced here. I I agree with Tyler. I I spend a lot of time at Shadow Mountain and the the amount of work [clears throat] that um happens in these center is is really critical. It's it is a lifeline to our seniors. I mean, I'm I'm in my 70s and I I I I sense there's times that I should be at that center and you should be helping me with my balance [laughter] and a lot of things. But I know you do such terrific work, especially for people that don't have anyone that live in the city and really all they have is our senior center. So I I'm inclined to say I would like to revisit their classification and I I don't know what that process would be, but I don't want to hold you up from getting at least a raise. Now, is there a way that we could revisit or I mean, what would be the logical process? Thank you, Mayor Mayor, members of council, Councilwoman Stark. Um, so we completely understand the concerns and and we can revisit this. Um, like you said, this provides for an increase. Now, um, the compensation analysis includes both the the local labor market data for comparable um, positions as well as internal equity. So um with this recommendation we are providing for both an increase while maintaining that internal alignment and equity you know across the greater organization. >> Okay. I just I want to make sure that you you guys get compensated now but I do think we should probably revisit. So I don't know I don't know how others feel. I I feel pretty strongly about the senior centers but that may be because I'm a senior. I mean I'm sorry, but I I understand the important work you do. >> Mayor, Councilman Stark, I think the option would be sort of what the councilman suggested, which is if you approve it now, then we don't hold up anybody's uh increase and understand this direction, we can have the HR team go back and take another look at it and and come back and explain to the council whatever those findings are. Um, but I think to your point, uh, there's an immediate increase that's on the table here. We can do that and then come back and re revisit that if that's what council would like to do. >> Okay, council, but I can't speak for everybody. And I mean, I agree that maybe we move we I don't want to hold anyone back either from getting the races that are already in here, but I would like to make an amendment to the motion to say we move forward with the motion, but we go back and we revisit these classifications and maybe have a meeting with the individuals and for HR to figure out what is something maybe somewhere in the middle that we can get um and and bring that back to the council. And I think that's okay. The vice mayor was the maker of the motion. >> Yeah, I made the motion. >> I don't feel com So if I may, mayor, um I understand the concerns that are being raised and I don't want to minimize the work that is being done. I think what is probably more appropriate is that we have a mechanism in which any unit can determine how to um request an adjustment so that they're not forced to come here to council to advocate on on behalf. So we have a I would like to see a more formal process be instilled as to if there's any classification that does not feels like they want to be reconsidered that we have a process and it's not that they have to come to council to do that and us move forward. So my inclination was that we continue to move forward as presented in the motion allow our human resource um department to come up with a process in which this can be rolled through um so that we can move forward. So, I'm not I don't want to limit our action to just this department because I do not I I'm not sure if we have others that may feel the same way and we are now saying that the proper course is for you to come to council when this is being brought up and this is the time for you to raise it. I just would like to see a more formal process. >> I would say one other thing we could also do is just to give you a presentation on the process itself as it stands today. That may also give you a sense of what goes into that, how the HR staff and the HRC work through that. That may give you more of a a sense of how that works. >> And vice mayor, members of council, um, we do have formal processes in place and each unit is capable of bringing forward the classifications that they would like us to study and they do quite frequently. Directors do the same thing. So there are processes in place and this is part of a monthsl long um study including desk audits as well. So there was a lot of work that did go into this again with um needing to maintain that internal alignment and equity. >> Wonderful. We have learned at the council when you adjust compensation in one area you got to adjust it in a whole lot of others. And so we should do it in a methodical way because that's the most fair way. And probably making compensation decisions from the podium is about as that that would become a difficult president. Mayor, >> I just have another question. >> Councilman Gordado, >> thank you. Um I guess Jason, my question is um has had these concerns have been brought up to you before about about them not being comfortable with with the with the pay range um that they that was being offered to them. >> So employees do come forward often with concerns. Um but again, we have to we have to balance a lot of different factors which is what occurred here as well. Yes. >> Got it. Okay. I I just think um I I think it's true. I agree that we need a more streamlined process, especially for workers um that are not being represented by the labor union. I think it's a little bit more um difficult maybe sometimes um for that process. So I do agree that we need to streamline streamline it um to making sure that we are listen I know that sometimes it might be difficult and we're looking at at different things and you know when I see that somebody's making $31,000 a year um it's not something that I feel very comfortable with. Um but I get it that it's it's a process. So, if we can look at that and figure out how do we really streamline that in a way where everyone feels that they're being heard, I I think um I would really appreciate that. And if you can just brief us on on what that's going to look like. >> Thank you. >> Happy to do so. >> Thank you. We'll go to Counciloman Pestor and then return to Councilman Hernandez. >> Hi. Um just uh just want to follow up with the fact that there is a process. Um there is a process that goes all the way up and then the final process is to come to council to say uh we are not we don't feel like uh that's the right um reclassification and uh employees have the ability to come to us and we govern and um I just want to be clear that there is a process Um, the other piece is what I just heard was, and you may have to help me on this, was there's a classification that is very similar or equal to what you do. And so I think that's what they're asking for is to look at that classification and if it checks all the boxes then it is probably very similar maybe called differently but they're doing the same thing and that's what's fair and I'm only coming from my uh community college side of the HR and reclassification and what's happens with us and how we have and the city has uh merged several classifications with similar duty duties but in different areas and so I think that's really what the concern is along with the pay could you elaborate on that >> yeah thank you um Councilwoman Pestor I do understand that concern and um the team did review the other classifications out there so there you know there's often a great deal of nuance in each of these classifications. Um, and I believe that again that where they landed with this initial recommendation, the recommendation that's before you today, um, is what they felt aligned best with the classification as it exists and the other classifications within the city. >> Okay. But they're here and so we are asking I know it and it has to be an emotion because I learned this on something else last week. It has to be in motion. It has to be a directive to staff in order for us to even have them look and explore um in this in this space. And so I'm trying to clear that up because it has to be an emotion um and for for them to go uh as to look at re-evaluate look at it and come back to us. Um and so I want to add clarity to that. Am I correct, Ed, or Julie or whoever? >> I think you have it right. If if the desire of the council is for us to go back and look at this again, we do need that in the form of a motion. >> That's correct. Council, >> I just wanted to be clear on that. >> Councilwoman Hernandez, >> thank you, Mayor. Uh just sorry, just have a follow-up question because I do agree with Councilwoman Pastor. Um, you know, in my previous line of work when we were doing recl reclassifications, um, and if there's two similar roles, I I mean, I would be supportive of, uh, a motion to relook at these two particular ones to see if they can be merged. But, um, Jason, I know you mentioned that there is a formal process in how we are doing reclassifications. At what point do we do those? Are is that going to be an ongoing situation? Do we do those ones time a year? like can you give me the time frame? >> Yes, absolutely. So, uh, Councilwoman Hernandez, it's actually an ongoing process and and, um, just to be clear, it's more than just rec what you would call reclassification. We're really looking at the pay and compensation. So, pay grade and what is appropriate for a particular classification, but those are ongoing and those go to the HRC committee, the human resources committee for the final recommendation as you see today. So, that is all part of that process. >> Okay. Thank you. because I also don't want to hold up the um from us being able to do the four that we have here before us. But I am hearing the concerns that they feel the employees feel like they should be at the same pay grade as a different role that seems like they're very similar. So yeah, I mean open to how we move forward, but I would like us to look at that piece. um if there's room to do that. >> Vice Mayor, thank you so much. So, as I stated before, my concerns was making sure if there's some level of consistency in how we move this forward. um absent um the employees coming to council here today, I had no idea that this was a an issue, meaning that we weren't I didn't feel like I was I wasn't adequately briefed on the on this discussion and coming from a place of knowledge. How could we how could we fix this? um to make sure that when one when we do know that there's a reclassification, the employee position is the employee group's position is stated in the material so that we have some level of insight so that we can find out more information before we come to council because I presume that there was some level of a determination made after this objection or was raised by the employee groups as to the classification and there was some further discussion or hopefully there was some further discussion um or research done into this and maybe if that have been helpful for us to have seen ahead of time. Um so I am still in favor of us I want to make sure I'm climbing in favor of us moving forward with the reclassification as it stands. But how do we um what is your proposal on how we can get this um standardized and and know about all of the other outstanding if there are other outstanding similar reclassification that have objection from the employee group so that we can be properly briefed and make decisions um with full information. >> Thank you vice mayor. So we can certainly um take a look and come back uh with recommendations with regard to how HRC can communicate. So that you know there is um there is opportunities to be heard at the HRC end of this and we can come back with recommendations as far as communication to council on that. >> Councilwoman Gordado and then Hernandez. I mean I I agree that we need um a process but I still insist on the amendment and just because these workers are not represented by a union and I know that this is hopefully this is the last time that this happens where workers come in and ask for something on the dis. I also agree that it should be done um differently. Um but I also um you know I also understand um what the workers are saying here and I think we should listen to that. Hopefully it doesn't become something that happens all the time with with workers that are not represented because majority of the workers um are right now in the middle of contract negotiations. So there's no need for them to come. But I think workers that are not represented by the union are in a little different boat. Um, and I understand there's some times where there's disagreements. Um, and hearing that there's two classifications that are very similar and some are getting paid more than others. I I would still I'm hoping um, Vice Mayor that we can make the amendment just for this one time, you know, just because I and then after that being able to streamline the process. >> Thank you, mayor, members of council. So just for a point of clarification, these these positions are represented positions. These are members of a a bargaining unit association. >> Can I ask to you? >> I don't think >> I think we'll go to council Bryant since she hasn't had a chance yet and then we'll go to council her. >> Really just have a quick question. Sorry. Which um unit are they represented by? I couldn't hear you. >> I'm sorry. Unit seven, Aspatia. >> Okay. Thank you. I just needed to hear that. Councilman Hernandez, >> uh, I think I will hold my question. >> Okay. Um, Councilman Perz Pastor, I actually would like to make an exception, but um, my question is to Julie um, make an make an exception as to look at the two classifications. and mayor, members of council. So, are you making a substitute motion? >> No, I'm having a what I'm saying, we're having a dialogue. So, what I'm what I'm what I'm saying is I would like in the motion, if the vice mayor is willing uh to make an exception to look at these uh the two classifications that they are speaking of. If not, I can make a substitute motion. >> Yeah. Mayor, members of council, if the U maker So, there is a motion on the table. If the maker of the motion doesn't agree to a friendly amendment, which should be a minor modification, then it would be a substitute u amendment and needs a second or a substitute motion which needs a second. >> So for clarification, because we've had some conversation back and forth, I want to make sure I understand the motion, I'm sorry, the amendment as proposed. The amendment, can you repeat? The amendment is to bring this classification for staff to go back, look at it, speak with the individuals um that are affected by this, look at the two classifications and come back just for that classification with a new proposal. >> And I think we need to be clear as to which classification we're talking about. Just so the record is clear, I presume we're talking about both the classification for senior center assistant and senior pro program supervisor. >> Yes. Okay. With that clarification as to what the motion is, I will accept the friendly amendment. >> Thank you. >> And then Councilman O'Brien was the second. Councilman, >> before I make that judgment, could I ask a couple, >> please? >> Thank you. >> Um Jason, can you explain the process you go through to make this determination and get here and make this recommendation? Mayor, members of council, I'm actually going to call Greg Carmichael up. He's our assistant director over class and comp so he can walk you through the actual process. >> Okay. Thank you. Can you repeat the question for me again please? >> So can you when we obviously the city went through a large comprehensive class and comp review and and we made many changes to uh pay pay classifications. And so we have been refining because as we learned when we did that occasionally there um we didn't get it quite right right. We're not we're not perfect and and so we have been here as Councilwoman Pastor um mentioned a few times before to make modifications. What process do you go through when you are looking at these um additional adjustments to our class and comp for you know where we feel like it got out of sorts even though we did a whole great big class and comp redo. Mayor, Councilwoman O'Brien, requests come into our office either through generally either through labor groups or through department heads and employees. If an employee wants to raise an issue generally, they run that up their chain of command until it comes to a department head and they come across to the HR department and ask us to look at a classification or a market study. When we get those requests, we review primarily our first our first engagement is to look at the local labor market and assess our competitive position against other cities, mayor or Mesa, Scottsdale, Tempe, etc. And so, and so as as a result of that, our first and primary consideration is are we competitive with the local labor market. Secondarily, we're also looking internally to see if a regrade or reclassification will disrupt a job family or a career path or any other internal alignment within the city. Combining those two elements, we come up with our best recommendation as to a potential regrade. And if we think that's warranted, we will work with the labor union and the department head and gain concurrence on a a strategy moving forward. and then that will come to this body to make a final determination. >> So the the data you use if if I understood correctly is a market study from the local region and evaluating us against our um I'm not going to say comparable cities but surrounding cities uh to ensure that we are competitive. >> That's correct. >> And so did this study show that we weren't competitive? We found we were generally competitive with the local labor market for this type of work. >> And so even though we were generally competitive, you were bringing to us an increase for this particular pay grade that we're talking about. >> That's correct. Because in addition to the competitive nature externally, we were also looking internally. And in the review of this classification, we felt it compared closely with a recreation coordinator. And so we were aligning this body of work with a recreation coordinator. And we worked with those departments to assess similar jobs, not the same jobs, but similar jobs. And that's how we ended up with the final determination that we're bringing forward today. So the so even though we were competitive in pay to our fellow city neighboring cities, the reason you brought forth a pay increase is because comparatively speaking to other um jobs within the city that seemed similar enough. Is that a fair way to describe it? Um you still felt like an a pay increase was needed and cor is that yet correct? >> Correct. Okay. And was this presented to um the Aspetia, right? Is that the correct? >> It was. Aspia was involved in this. Correct. >> Okay. And were there others that disagreed with this? >> I can't speak to the number who disagreed. I'm not right off the top of my head. >> Okay. You're So Tyler is here obviously and and poor Tyler, you can sit down. Sorry Tyler. Tyler, but but so when the process of working with the association and employees, tell me more about that then when you present that >> is it I guess when you pres you present it to because the employ I'm presuming an employee group asked for this to be reviewed. Is that is that correct? That >> is correct. >> Okay. A correct assumption on my part. So when you go back to that group of employees or employee um do you present this information and the data by which you've come to your recommendation for the city council or do you just come to city council without going back to them? No, we we worked Mayor Council Ryan, we worked extensively with Aspetia leadership and and and discussed all of the all of the factors that we're considering external competitiveness, internal alignment, um ramifications of ripple effects. If we change one job classification, what does that affect other classifications across the city? We felt like we had a a solid proposal that Aspatia leadership would support uh and the department leadership would support. We presented that to the human resources committee and we're bringing it forward to this body today. >> Okay. Given the request for an amendment to the motion, what steps would you take then from here it were that to pass? Um, Counciloman O'Brien, if you're asking if the amendment passes, another in other words, I believe the amendment right now is to review this classification again or this classification family, >> we would at class and comp would have to go through the process as just described again um including and they have a lot of the data so they can go back look at the data but again it would have to be reviewed in that internal alignment that that Greg spoke about as well. But we can certainly take that back and and do another look at it. >> And you would go back to um the human resources commission. Is that sorry? >> The human resources committee. Yes. HRC as well. >> HRC um before you were to make a recommendation to the city council. >> That's correct. It would have to it would have to go through HRC. Correct. >> Okay. And I I want to just um ensure that is that what you were asking for councilwoman out of that to go back through the process and if What I would ask you now is if they go back and review this and the assessment is that this is the correct pay grade. But >> yeah, I mean I'm hopeful that they will come around. I'm sure Jason will come around and brief us and before it comes to the dis. I'm sure there'll be consensus on the on the council on how we're moving forward. So, Mayor Council O'Brien, my understanding of the motion would be that you would you're you're moving to approve this item as it is so that no one's increase because there's others on here are held up. We would then as staff go back, re-examine all the steps we took, reconsult with the labor groups, talk with the employees, and then come back with if there were any changes that came out of that process, we would bring those back. It is possible that after doing all that, they would still come to the same conclusion, possible. It's also possible that they might come with a different conclusion, but they would lay all that out very clearly. And as you said, we'd be able to brief council members beforehand with that. um as well as I think to the vice mayor's question of more fully lay out the process so you understand all those steps that go into it as well. Does that capture what you're seeking? >> Okay. >> Okay. And mayor, can I just very quickly and I would implore you to at least go out to the senior centers and observe what they do. >> Sorry. >> And see the level of work and responsibility they take on because it is pretty important. I I think that would help maybe with the reassessment. >> And thank you. And Councilwoman O'Brien still has the floor. >> So So and thank you um Ed for the further clarification. But what I I guess what I want to or what I feel like is missing is that we need to see the data because this isn't just a convers um how do I want to say the process is not just um a conversation with employees and and what we're looking at data um and and job descriptions and and pay. And then I I'm going to ask one more question. when we do do these reviews and talk to our neighboring cities, um is it just about pay alone or do we also look at the compensation part? Sorry, the the rest of the package which is um benefits. Thank you. Uh because when I was on school board, right, folks would talk about pay, but they would forget about the benefit side of their package. And when you compare both, um, that was a bigger package for our employees than our neighboring school districts, but they they wanted more pay, but they didn't want to give up the benefit side of it. So, is that a consideration when we talk about this >> for Mayor, Councilwoman O'Brien, for these kinds of studies when they're specific to a classification or a job family and we're comparing to the local labor market, we're primarily looking at the base compensation. We we fully recognize that when we're comparing with the private sector um that total compensation is probably a more robust package for us to review. But for most of our classifications within the city, especially those that are in the STEP system, comparing to other public sector municipalities, our base compensation is a reasonable proximity to to gauge a competitive position for our jobs. So, our benefits packages, we don't compare those to our neighboring cities. >> Mayor, members of council, Councilwoman Brian, for the purposes of these studies, it is the base wage that class and compensation looks at. >> Okay. That um Ed, I would tell you I would ask that as we start going forward that that be a consideration. I understand the base wage concept, but I also I mean not knowing what that is. I mean, and clearly we don't look at it. I think it is not a best practice to not evaluate that as as well because benefits are a big deal. I mean, we might be making the same base wage, um, whether it's 30,000, 50,000, or 100,000, but if my benefits package is worth 40,000 in Phoenix, and it's worth 10,000 in another city, I won't name any um because I don't want to get in trouble, then that is a discrepancy and there is more value depending on what matters to you. And if it and if benefits don't matter to you, like somebody who who's married and has kids might, the health benefit package might be more important than um if you don't have that in a different city. I I don't think we're doing ourselves a good service to not look at that. Um it is a whole package. I do want to take care of our employees. I what I don't want to do which is makes me a little nervous about this motion is to mandate that they come back to or that we mandate that they make a change and go to the um human resources committee. It's that they're going to evaluate it and that if they don't make if there's not a recommendation to change then then it it stops there. >> Is that Mayor Council O'Brien? Yes, that was the intention of what I what I stated was we would do that. And I think you you said something important, which is uh that we should come back and show the data. So, I think what this does is gives staff the opportunity with this as a as a test, not a test, but a an example to really come back and walk through with each of you what steps go through, what data fed fed into the assessment. And if as we go back and we assess that it should be higher because of factors, we'll lay all that out. If not, we'll lay all that out in either direction. Okay? >> But it'll give an opportunity for you to fully understand the reclassification and HRC process and we can take the time to do that and you can understand every step of that and the the evaluation that has gone into the recommendation that we're bringing you. With that clarification, mayor, I'm willing to accept the friendly amendment and then I would just ask that going forward, I would hope with the support of my colleagues that we would start looking at the entire compensation package, not just the base pay when when we're um evaluating this. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I think that was consistent with the vice mayor's >> that was consistent, but I wanted to um clarify on something else. So, Councilwoman Stark, for example, talked about going out to the center and observing them. While I understand her motivation for that, again, this is comes back to my my idea that we need to be consistent, if that's not what we do for every classification as we reclassify. I don't think it's appropriate. But if we do it for all of them, I think it's appropriate. And I think that's why I would like to make sure that it's clear that this this motion is to, for lack of a better word, begin the process over for these two class for these two position, these two classifi classified position in light of um the arguments that were articulated and comparing it to the other classification they think they're aligned with. I don't think that we are I did not don't view the motion as asking you to go beyond what already exists in term of framework and then we then you would provide a brief in to us as council members as to what the results of that specific review was. That's my hope of the motion. Is that incorrect? >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I I want to agree with Councilwoman O'Brien. To me, total compensation really matters. We have excellent benefits, including many that peer cities don't offer. And that matters. I also think we should take in account the merit system. And it's something like 80% of our employees could get something like a 5% raise. That's incredible. And our peer cities don't offer that. And if if almost everyone in a class is likely to get it, that is also fair to consider. We really, I think, would be well served by looking at total compensation. And and if people don't value total compensation, then we should just put everything into base wage and forget with those uh benefits. >> And mayor, if I may just add to that um point, we do uh publish each year for each employee a personalized summary of their total compensation. So, it includes everything that they receive from salary to one-time payments if they receive those to overtime to benefits to pension payments that are paid on their behalf, health insurance payments that are paid on their behalf. All of those things summarized in a document for them to be able to review exactly how much they get to the penny for each of those items and it includes their total compensation package cost or or amount um that they can see for themselves specific to their uh their job and their uh employment with the city. So, I do want to point that out. Some employees may not realize that that's available to them in erris and so I would encourage all employees to review that because it does give a very good summary of everything that we provide to our employees and it is a very very rich benefit package. >> Wonderful. I used to work at an employer that would mail it to each of us and then you'd read and it was it felt good to see your total compensation. So we spent an enormous amount of time on electrician pay a few years ago. Some electricians have wonderful pensions outside the city including private sector. Some do not. Did we just do base pay? >> So, mayor, members of the council, the reality is in the job market that we've been in and things have recently started to slow down, but by and large, the job market over the last several years has been highly competitive and we have had to compete both at base pay alone and at total compensation. So, we've really been trying to focus on both at the same time. Now that things are slowing down in the labor market, we can definitely focus a little bit more on looking at that total compensation package and advertising what we're doing with regard to benefits and other pays outside of base pay. Um, but it is really important right now and has been for the last several years that we also focus on base pay. So, I don't think that we can take our foot off the gas of focusing on base pay if we're going to remain competitive in the labor market, but we do have to also, to your points, point out what we have in total compensation and how wonderful of a benefit package we offer. >> Mayor, Councilwoman O'Brien. >> All right. And I don't want my comments to be mistaken that we shouldn't have base pay as something that we look at or I don't know if you want to call it the focus, but that right that's the primary. to not do this part. I'm glad that we we look at that that it's available, but but it is important to I think not just have it available, but to be able to compare. So, I I I do understand it's been a very tight job market um and continues to be. You're right. It's nice that it's lightening up a little bit, but please Yeah. make sure we're able to compare all of it. >> Mayor, >> I think I saw Councilman Hernandez first and then Counciloman Gordado. Councilwoman Gordado. >> Thank you. I mean, I I think um I think yes, I think we should be looking at the two packages, but at least um one of the things that I continue to hear is that, you know, when we're having a hard time hiring is because a lot of the young new young professionals do not want I mean they they have to pay on the pension so they pay for the pension. I would like to see also like a breakdown especially with the newer employees that were hiring. How many of them are taking um the whole package [snorts] um because I know that there's a lot of people because they have the option of paying for health care or not pay for health care. Um, so that reason to me that's a dangerous zone to o only look at the whole package just because I do feel there's a lot of departments where there is still a lot of turnover um because they're more focused on being able to feed families instead of having the whole package because there's a lot of folks that still qualify for access. Um, so, you know, I I would like to see if there's a way to get a breakdown on how many people are taking um the full package and paying for health insurance and paying for for dental and paying for um um and paying for for everything that we offer. It's an amazing package. I I I think um for people that have been working here for 10 plus years, I think it's a great thing. Folks that are thinking about retirement and need health insurance more than ever. Um, but I think um, in order to attract people, I think the way we attract people is by the the base rate. Um, and I think that's how we've been able to change things. But like I'm curious to be able to see that and see um, what that looks like and if it's true that, you know, our our young people that were that were hiring that we're hopeful will be here in 20 years are are are taking that package at the moment. Thank you. Thank you, Lori. Thank you, everybody. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Wordo, we can pull that information for you. And I think that underscores the point that I was making about how we have to really look at both competitiveness at base wage alone as well as with total compensation. >> Thank you. Roll call. >> Gordado, >> yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> can I explain my vote? >> Please do. >> Um, I'm voting yes, and I want to thank the employees for advocating for yourselves. Um, this was the final stop. As you can see, we are going back and forth. But what I want to say is you are actually helping us improve the system. Um, and this is a way we improve the system and in a way in the future for policy uh, if we need to. So, I just want to thank you. Yes. >> Robinson. >> Yes. >> Stark. >> Yes. >> Wearing Hodgej Washington. >> Yes. >> GGO. >> Yes. passes 90. >> Thank you. Next, we go to item 24, which is to accept a gift from the Carnegi Corporation of New York to the Phoenix Public Library. Vice Mayor, motion to approve item 24. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. This gift comes as part of the America 250 celebration, an incredible milestone for our country, and it will help our Carnegie Library location. uh celebrate this historic milestone. Our library was opened in 1908 and was among the first libraries to serve our city. It's one of many ways that we and the state of Arizona are marking the America 250 milestone and and really looking forward to supporting this item. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Ernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> yes. >> Wearing, yes. >> Hodge Washington, >> yes. GGO. >> Yes. >> Passes 90. >> Item 26 is related to Sueno Park Public Art. Do we have a motion? >> Motion to approve item 26. Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Councilwoman Pastor. >> Yes. I want to talk about Swano Park. Uh Swano Park is an important community space in the heart of Mville and I'm very excited to see this investment coming to District 4's west side. Uh Mville is a bi vibrant community where families rely heavily on our parks as a gathering space. Projects like this help ensure that art and culture investments reach every part of the city, not just our central core. The installation will also include a functional element like shade or seating which directly improves the park experiences for resident and families who use the space every day. I want to recognize the selected artist Joe Ray. He was part of the Sombra uh collaborative. His past work across uh Phoenix has focused on colorful and community centered installations. I just want to thank the office of arts and culture and everyone involved in the community-based selection process to ensure this project reflects the neighborhood it serves. Thank you. >> Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez. Yes. >> O'Brien. >> Yes. >> Pastor. >> Yes. >> Robinson. >> Yes. >> Stark. >> Yes. >> Wearing. >> Yes. >> Hodgej Washington. >> Yes. >> GGO. >> Yes. >> Passes 90. >> Item 30 is related to pilot simulator training contract. C. Uh turn to our public safety chairman for a motion. >> Thank you, mayor. Um I see um the commander and assistant chief are coming to the table. Chief Lee and Commander Rian just had a quick question for you before I make a motion. Couple of quick questions. Um the simulated [clears throat] training I I think it's important to um ask just a really general question and let you guys elaborate on it. But um why why is this training important? Why do you think it's necessary? >> Mayor, vice mayor, members of city council, Councilman Robinson. So the use of simulator training in in uh flight avionics has been used for uh for decades and it has also been recognized as a national best practice for providing uh not only basic training but advanced as well as intermediate and emergency training. Uh it helps the pilots be able to to adjust to different uh types of aircraft. It gives them scenarios that they're able to work through in a controlled environment. uh some of the emergency procedures that these uh pilots are are presented with in the form of a scenario uh are items that are emergent in nature and would t typically uh put not only the pilot at risk but also put the aircraft itself and the airframe under severe duress. So the ability for us to utilize continued simulator training provides a cost-effective safe environment for our folks to be able to learn the skill sets required to operate these million-dollar pieces of equipment. Thank you for that. [clears throat] Excuse me. I have to admit I I've spent a little bit of time up at the air support unit lately and the amount of work that is being done by this particular unit and it's been some time I had the the pleasure of being in Chief Lee's position, but it was 20 years ago when I had the air support unit and things have changed drastically. Commander Rian, if you could give us an idea of the types of things that you guys are doing nowadays, because I think it's really important besides the training that is being done, the work that you you are able to do with these types of aircraft, the platforms that we have up there and how farreaching they are and what it actually does for us in in general. >> Yes. Thank you, Mayor, Council, Councilman Robinson. uh the men and women of the air support units provides uh support to the patrol function in the city of Phoenix. They do that via surveillance missions that they do to identify targeted offenders. Traditionally, they are violent ones in nature. Um homicide suspects, armed robbery. Um and what they do is they provide an opportunity to maintain um observation of that suspect until an appropriate time is done. We look at venue, environment, location for the appropriate time that traditionally our SWAT team or our crime impact unit is taking those dangerous felons off the street. Uh they also perform transport missions. So if one of our detectives needs to go to a neighboring state um because a suspect was just as arrested, then they can provide that very timely service over there. And then in some cases that actually been able to keep the chain of custody. They they took a a seat out of a vehicle one time, were able to put it inside of the airplane, transport it back. Those are valuable pieces of evidence that result in successful prosecution of crimes. And then that's something that's always done for those transport missions depending upon um if there is evidence related. And they also do a cost analysis. So depending on how far it is, the number of people involved, if it's cheaper to use commercial aircraft, we'll do that. And if it's cheaper to use our own, then we do that. >> Okay. Thank you very much for that. And I wanted to get those points out because it's we were talking about training or this particular item um deals with training simulation training, but I think it's important for everyone to understand the totality of why we do the training and the totality of what the mission happens to be. It's it's tremendous. And for anybody who has not had an opportunity to sit down or to spend a little bit of time with the air support unit, I would strongly recommend that they do so to understand more completely as to its mission and what they've been able to accomplish because I think the question came up earlier when it came to an accident question that we were talking about. It's about training training training more training. And training is an investment in safety. You know, I I don't know anybody who would dispute that. And so I think this is a really good move. um [clears throat] excuse me, a good item, a a move in the right direction. And like I said, I've had the opportunity to spend some time with the air support unit. I thank you guys all for your hospitality and all that you've done up there. And clearly, we are moving in the right direction for a lot of different things. And for that reason, mayor, I'd like to move approval of item number item number 30. >> Second. We have a motion in a second. Councilwoman Hernandez. >> Thank you, mayor. Just have a couple questions. Um, and apologies first if you've already answered them, but I got a little lost there. Um, I know that these planes came up in our last formal meeting where I had a few questions around the number of planes. Uh, the department has the cost of upkeep and deployment. Um, but you know, as with everything, every day we learn something new about all kinds of things. Um, including the training cost and how we actually use the planes. Um, so [snorts] my understanding is the department is seeking council approval to pay for the flight simulator uh for the uh department pilots. Correct. >> Mayor, vice mayor, members of council, and councilwoman Hernandez. This particular request is specifically for funding in order to do simulator training. We we are not purchasing the training. I mean, we are not purchasing the simulator. We are only asking for the funding to cover the cost of the training which is provided by uh Simco Aviation. >> Okay. Thank you. Um just wanted to clarify that. And then uh sorry and this might be where it might be repetitive but I'm going to go ahead and proceed anyways. Uh what aircraft that the department owns will the similar training be appropriate for? Mayor, vice mayor, members of council, councilwoman Hernandez. So the the two aircraft that this particular training is specific to is the Palatus PC12 that is the turborop engine. It also uh is is a cargo uh vessel that we can use for flying as well. This particular training this is the simulator training specific to that platform. >> Okay. Thank you. And I think I did hear what uses that uh aircraft is for in uh Councilwoman Robinson's uh question. Um, anything else you can add to what you have already stated? >> I think it's important, uh, Councilwoman Hernandez, just to to note that, uh, depending on the mission that the air unit is asked to perform will dictate the type of aircraft that is actually selected for use. So, as uh Commander Rian had mentioned, depending on if they're if they're having to transport uh folks or evidence or whatever the case may be from one state over a long distance, it makes more sense to use a fixed wing aircraft. If it is something where we're actively overhead of a scene and we're we're monitoring something, that's where our patrol helicopters, the H125s that we use are typically the platform of choice. That's what we use every single day uh to cover uh the patrol related functions. So, it just depends on what the uh what the mission is. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Um and then my last question, I recently had my cafe Konana where a constituent asked and I told him that I would come back and ask this question. Um but he brought up a question around drones. Um you know, and the question he asked was, "Have we considered using drones instead of piloted um airplanes? And would there be a cost savings if we replaced piloted airplanes with drones? Um, and what would that cost savings be? >> So, Mayor, uh, Vice Mayor, members of council, Councilwoman Hernandez, that's an excellent question, and it's one that we were asked several times over the last, uh, three or four years as we developed the, uh, Phoenix unmanned aerial system program. Um, I had the the pleasure of actually being directly involved in that. And one of the misconceptions that came out of the uh the implementation of our policy is the idea that one will replace the other. Uh, that is actually not the case. Uh the use of drones or UAS systems are usually done at very low level. Uh they are things that can be done to hold a stationary location for uh a longer period of time at a much significant uh less cost to the city uh than it would take to have an aircraft hovering above uh for an extended period of time. Uh the primary use of the drones, we use them in three different areas. We use them for investigative support, we use them to manage special events, and we use them for tactical support. So instead of having to put a tactical operator and our SAU team in front of a door or a window, we can actually utilize a drone to be able to see what's there before we before we put somebody uh in peril. Uh so we do not have a situation where the helicopters would replace the drones or vice versa. >> Okay. Thank you so much. And sorry, just as a followup for future, can you get me not now, but um can you follow up with my office um on the cost breakdown for our entire air uh air support units we have? um cost breakdown like cost to maintain, what they cost to purchase um and what it costs to per hour to have these out um deployed. >> Councilwoman Hernandez, absolutely. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Uh thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you so much. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez. >> Mayor, may I explain my vote? >> Please do. >> Thank you. Um the question before us is not whether pilots should be trained safely. We can all agree that if we are going to have an air force, our pilots should be trained properly. The deeper question really is why our police department continues to operate and expand aerial surveillance and warlike tactical aviation capacity at all, especially in a city facing crisis and housing, heat resilience, behavioral health access, and youth opportunity. The reality is that we are being asked to normalize and fund Phoenix Police Department behavior that should give us pause. we continue to militarize Phoenix police at the same time our city struggles to fund the very services that prevent harm in the first place. Um let us be courageous enough to question the premise and the normalization of this. Let us remember that true safety is built from the ground up not enforced from the sky. Uh I will continue to raise these issues before uh because I believe in investing in real solutions that truly create community safety. I do not believe that our airfleet creates safety and I do not believe that that is a good financial investment for our city. Um and with that I vote no. Thank you. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> yes. >> Wearing, >> yes. >> Haj Washington, >> yes. >> GGO, >> yes. Passes 81. Thank you so much. We next go to item 36 which is related to public transit department and the aviation buying bus. Do we have a motion? >> Motion to approve item 36. >> Second. >> A motion and a second. Diane Barker is here to provide testimony. Followed by Brew Blue. Thank you, Mayor and City Council. I'm in district um seven and I do support this uh issue. I had been a terminal driver out at Phoenix Sky Harbor and we made transition into the cleaner burning of vehicles and I applaud the city of Phoenix for continuing that. I guess we're leading to electric, but we still have a large amount of compressed natural gas. And all I can say is if you want to bring the political divide together and Trump's uh drill, baby drill, just have them drill lighter. That's compressed natural gas. Thank you. >> Blue will be our final speaker on this item. Boy, do I want to have fun with this one. Eight buses for $12 million. You ordered them in 23. At that same time, over there at the RPGA, you cancelled what was it? 27 buses because you weren't going to be instituting the um uh routes that uh had been originally dealt with and that you cut back uh one of them being Lichfield. But what I'm looking at here is it says eight buses for 12 million, but it's a contingency out of 229,882,861. Well, is that going to be going for buses and such? Cuz with the monies that you got from uh that Prop 400, where are all the bus stops that are inadequate? Where are all the buses on Camelback? You have uh >> in blue. This is whether the airport should buy uh does not prop 479. So he could should the airport have buses. >> Right. Right. And it and they're being made a part of the whole uh system. Are they going to have bike racks? You know, if they're going to be put back into the system, that's something I got put on that it's systemwide. when you bought these is are they going to have the bike racks and uh what I was trying to point out is that with the amount of expenditures you haven't done on buses and infrastructure that you have continuously put towards light rail. I need you not to be funding 52% on rail. I need you to get back to the what it is and that's creating a bus system not for a mediumsiz city but with fifth largest city in the country. Thank you. And just to be clear, this is not for the public transit system, Valley Metro system. This is for the airport. U but it will use the same contract to buy buses that the public transit department uses. And it really is exciting. Today we had one of these electric buses out in front of city hall. I got to visit and it was so it was on but so incredibly quiet. It's going to be such a great experience for our riders, more sustainable. So we'll be reducing tailpipe emissions and the driver said it's a really responsive vehicle that will be great to drive. So I'm excited that the airport will have this option. The sky train will still be our workforce or workhorse, but it's good to be able to have options including uh for continuity of operations. There be a challenge with the sky train. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Hernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark, >> Hajj Washington, >> yes. >> GGO, >> yes. >> Passes 90. All right, Councilman Wearing, you've been working on this for so long. Did you want to make a motion on item 37? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. And we will welcome back Diana and Blue. [clears throat] I love it. You think that that shuttle service is really important, but then I when I look at your district, if I wrote a black out all the area that >> blue is whether we should have a bridge at Mayo. >> I know it's a a shuttle service between ASU and Mayo. It runs for a mile and a half. I'm just saying that his district is one of the transit deserts of the city. And I'm glad that you're getting that part, but why aren't you filling the rest of it in? It's a grid out for the whole city. Where are the buses on your major arterials out there? Is it because you don't feel that uh the density is right for a bus? Well, I it's not the density, it's the whole of the city and the grid being maximized. Uh, like I said, I appreciate that you guys have put together a little shuttle service and the amount of money that's going to go to it, but in the overall gestalt of the whole system when it comes to your district, sir, there's a hole, like I said, a transit desert. Mayor, I guess I'll just say this. Uh I appreciate uh all input, but um this is the first I've heard of the transit desert. Um and I don't know that Blue is a resident of District 2, so he might not be the best person to decide how things are going in district 2. So, uh but this is fantastic, and I appreciate you letting me make the motion. Thank you. >> Okay. uh Diane Barker again and I'm supportive of infrastructure that will be for flexible transit and it is leading to a sustainable community. Mary, you're wanting electricity, but electric has its admissions at the source. And just to be clear, this is a very exciting project, but it is it is um infrastructure. This is applying for a federal grant, a build grant in the Mayo area. It would let Mayo be able to expand. They're doing incredible work in our city and and really providing life-saving care. ASU is also expanding and has uh helped bring in very cool companies. One of which was recognized this morning by Forbes 30 under 30. Jacob Lester with my health got got recognized on our Phoenix Forbes 30 under 30. So these are great entrepreneurs under the age of 30 and we want more of that in North Phoenix. So we're very hopeful the federal government will partner with us. The infrastructure is quite expensive in this area but this is a gymwearing project. It is a public private partnership. So ASU is going to pay for some of it. Mayo is going to pay for it and the public sector uh we hope US DOT and we will all contribute. So really trying to leverage a lot of money to improve street road infrastructure in that area and very optimistic that US DOT may want to partner with us on this one. And mayor, I'll just say, you know, the Mayo expansion, not during my years in the council, not because of me, I don't want to misinterpret, has been incredible. I think the $ 1.9 billion investment they uh did, I can't remember now, >> just what they announced last year. >> I mean, it's fantastic. Um, uh, but the expansion, I believe that campus is going to be better than their one in Ro, bigger than the one in Rochester by the time it's all done. Um, I don't know. It just speaks to people wanting to come to Phoenix and the market that we've created here. And, uh, I can't wait to see more progress in the years ahead. Thank you. >> And the councilman has spent an enormous amount of time on this flood plane and the streets in this area. So, here's to hoping we [laughter] Thanks for reminding me. Well, it's moving. Forward motion. Forward motion is uh some days you win outright, some days you just make progress. All right, roll call. >> Yes. >> Ernandez, >> yes. >> O'Brien, >> yes. >> Pastor, >> yes. >> Robinson, >> yes. >> Stark. >> Wearing. >> Hodge Washington? >> Yes. >> GGO? >> Yes. >> Passes 90. >> Excellent. Wishing everyone on our team luck with this one. That concludes our agendaized plan uh meeting and so we will now go to public comment and I'll turn to the city attorney to explain the this portion of the meeting. >> Thank you, mayor. During citizen comment, members of the public may speak to the city council for up to three minutes on issues of interest or concern. However, the matters addressed must be within the jurisdiction of the Phoenix City Council and on which the council has the authority to act. The citizen comment session is limited to 30 minutes. The Arizona open meeting law allows the city council to listen to comments but prohibits council members from discussing or acting on the issues presented. However, council members may respond to criticism. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. And we will begin with Blue uh Crowley followed by Diane Barker. I'm sorry. Uh but but blue will be followed by mahogany. >> To pick up where I left off, a transit desert is when you don't have a bus on any major arterial and all the major arterials in your area, most of them don't have buses. That would make it a transit desert. Um I have here uh stuff from the RPTA when you were chair and uh Mr. uh Zucker was or was uh chairman of the management committee. Um at that time, if you remember, I pointed out to you that all the funding that you were pushing towards uh light rail was restricted. But, uh, one of the things that you've been talking about is that Westside expansion. And this is from 2023 when you, your honor, uh, put forth a uh, extension of a contract for $30 million for planning and such for that area. And it uh the estimated 2-year one-year expenditures for 2025 through 2027 28 million and a 10% on contingency. Where's that money coming from? Because if you're using RPTA funds for that contract, you're not supposed to. It's something I pointed out more than once already. And when I look at what we put forth back in the 1980s that you finally agreed to in the '9s that went to a vote in the as that you cut onethird of it out saying that you don't have the funding and as I pointed out over the last five years, hey, you need to reestablish and get it done. What is your RPTA plan for the next year? And where are the buses? Where are the bus stops? Because all I see you doing is wanting to get the rail done. And uh it would be nice if uh those things worked, but I look at Camelback between Central and 19th. There are six rail that go through there uh during rush hour. How many buses? Do you know? Two. How is that a transit system? And when you brag and tap your shoulders about, well, we're a really good mediumsiz system. Well, that would be for like Glendale or Mesa. You're the city of Phoenix. 7 million people. You're not a medium, you're a large. >> Mahogany will be next, followed by Diane. >> Good evening, mayor and members of city council. My name is Mahogany Civier and I am a resident of Phoenix for 10 years. I am here tonight to speak on homelessness strategy while I share the community's frustration with seeing our public space spaces, parks and sidewalks becoming heavily impacted by encampments. I firmly believe that the current solely enforcementbased approach is not working. Sweeping encampments without providing immediate viable um alternatives only move the problem from one block to another or worsen [snorts] break the fragile trust between our unhoused neighbors and service providers is not just a nuisance. It's a human crisis. We know that a safety I mean a safe uh stable place to live in the first steps of addressing the root causes of homelessness which are mental health crisis addiction and extreme poverty. I urge the council to pivot towards the housing first approach. Specifically, I asking you to fund more, not less, immediate low barriers and non congregation shelters. Uh, approve the expansion of mental health outreach teams to work alongside in places of law enforcement. invest in permanent supportive housing solutions rather than temporary highcost cleanup operations that do not solve the roots issue. The unhoused are not a separate moral category. They are neighbors are often people dealing with health crisis, losing their homes due to economical hardship. They deserve dignity and we deserve the a city that works for everyone. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Diane is next, followed by Lee Ellis. >> Thank you, Mayor City Council. I had an opportunity to be greeted well by my council woman Anna Hernandez and I just sat on I remember being in LA and being on the freeway and they had a platform and the fast bus let us off there and we connected with the local. I said you know I love taking the uh transit over in LA. about 15% of the people we think of it all cars over there, but they do have a big percentage uh taking transit. I think that I I'm a user of transit. I I've made it work for me what we have. I think that this area basically suffers from the lack of inspiration and education in appreciating what we have. I see that transf back in um July for the next five years. They operate out of the not only the north and south but 30% in the west valley. And this is where all you folks, we had 10 hours of talking about taking uh the light rail up there um on Indian school, but uh we have new buses. Talk about electric. We seem to be headed towards electric. The light rail is electric, but that has some pollute. If you think it's going to be zero emission, it has pollution. As I stated earlier, it'd be interesting to see the city has been remarkable in making renewable energy for some years. And we should be applauded across the United States for the CNG we've had. I've driven those buses out at the airport. And maybe we really should measure the emission. Well, we should. And and all of the components that MAG lets be exempt from pollution. transit. We need to measure it. We can't have a light rail accident for three days down on a major intersection, Indian School and Central, caused by what happens all the time. Accidents from people making lefthand turns into the train. And that happened six uh weeks ago or so. It was terrible. The driver in a truck was killed. The whole train went off of the track. And then I sit and listen to you wanting to make the preferred alternative to go on Indian school with more light rail. That's at grade and it's dangerous. Actually, Central Avenue in the future and this would help out small businesses. We should have small businesses on Central and get the traffic off of that Central Avenue. >> Thank you so much. Lee is next, followed by David. >> Thank you for your time. Uh, since we last spoke, I was speaking on behalf of SOS. They have made a lot of good improvements. Um, they are stepping up. We do still need some more dis disabled bathrooms in there. Um there's showers in there. They're going to need some work on too as well. But uh thank you for your time and uh all you guys hard effort. We appreciate you. >> Thank you. David is next followed by Elizabeth. >> Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to say thank you to all of you in the council. Um everything has been going way better than we could have ever thought possible. Um there's a lot of good works that are going on and we just had our first town hall today. I was able to speak there so [clears throat] pardon me. My voice is gone. But anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for hearing us. >> Elizabeth is next followed by Teresa. >> Okay. Um let's just say okay so um basically I wanted to tell you a little bit about um my backstory and my disability um just because I feel like there's not enough education for regarding mental health that comes from people that experience psych like severe psychiatric conditions um because people like face a lot of stigma in um talking in public about it but um I have a disorder that's called schizioffective disorder It's um very difficult to medicate because it has a wide variety of symptoms. Um basically I have like all the mental health disorders at like one time which is super fun, right? Um oh no. Um but anyways um I wanted to tell you a little bit about how it operates. I had come before and told you about how I have a glandular problem um which um causes a hormone to be um elevated which uh counteracts vitamin D and um it causes like lesions on the brain and I have psoriasis and and um it causes a wide variety like kidney failure and like a wide variety of uh symptoms and the average life expectancy is I believe um around age 40. So I'm doing good on the average. Um but um it it makes it so that your calcium is too high and also the lesions, you know, don't help. But makes it so your calcium is too high because you don't have enough vitamin D, right? And I'm only explaining this because I don't I feel like it's a mechanical thing to me, right? um you know the calcium gets too high and it disregulates basically everything in the cell, right? So you have um things that work on large molecules going in and out of membranes and they're triggered by like a potential like an action potential. So like if you have a certain amount of calcium on one side, it's going to want to move across uh through active transport. And so it interferes with um energy processing, so metabolism, and it also interferes with um neurotransmitters going in and out. It might even stop them entirely. And so, you know, from my experience, I just don't feel like people have an idea that this is a, you know, sort of mechanical thing that occurs within my body. It's it's not necessarily a choice, but it's very difficult to kind of deal with ramifications. Um, and that's part of why I like want to be um transparent about, you know, being an advocate that is uh has these disorder because um I feel like a lot of people don't understand how it works and that's about it. >> Thank you so much for that important testimony. Teresa Hill is next followed by Nika who >> mayor and city Mayor and City Council, I want to take this opportunity to say thank you to the police officers, the families, and that you approve the visits that the officers made. In just a few months, there have been a numbers of family citizen apps showing on our neighborhood for the calls of the police, for fighting for uh yelling uh theft at Walgreens and Circle K that I can't feel safe in going to. from stabbings to bonfires. These are just a few including exposure of uh people in the park. And so I just want to say thank you to the police officers. They're handling a lot of calls. I do care for the homeless. I support all the city is doing. But I hear over and over again that we're criminalizing people for being homeless. We are here to enforce the laws. And if homeless are getting arrested, they're getting arrested for breaking the law. I have seen personally people stealing even in the grocery stores that are homeless. I've had homeless people tell me, "It doesn't matter because the police won't touch me because I'm homeless." That needs to be under control. And our parks are not campsites. They're not medical centers. We have lots of money we've spent and we need to spend on these shelters. I know a few people who have gone through the program, have gotten an apartment, have gotten a job, and they don't go to work. They're in the system until they get evicted. Then the landlords out they go, and we wonder why they are not wanting to accept our vouchers. So, housing first doesn't work. When I see so many people We need to drop the catchall phrase criminalizing homeless. We need to look at the whole picture. And I'll end with this. Where is the balance? Where did we lose our right to have a safe city? And thank you guys for listening. you're hearing us that are actually throughout the valley. These problems aren't in just one district, they're citywide. >> Thank you again. >> Thank you. With that, our final speaker is no longer online, so we are adjourned. God. I also want before I welcome Rich to the podium, I want to say I mean we have talked about the deal making of Norwood and it was a very tough deal to do because we had a compressed timeline.