muted. It's a dream come true. I bet you can hear me now. >> Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. >> I was just getting rid of text that you're muted. The mistake was not on my end. >> No, we got it. We got it fixed. Um, so good after I'm going to start saying afternoon now unless people object because it's still pretty sunny outside. Um, good afternoon. Welcome to the Monday, March 9th meeting of the Orno Town Council. Roll call um shows that we have councelor Lare, council Hardison, uh Council Demerit, Council Powers, Council Quinn in person, council Baker is online, and I expect council marks to be joining us shortly. Uh council Baker, what's your schedule? You going to be able to stay with us for a little bit? You want to do the budget piece? Do you want to move anything, anything we can do to accommodate you? >> I appreciate that. Um I'm here for the budget piece and then if you will acquies me I will um leave to join my family. >> Excellent. Okay. Yeah coming up comes up pretty close to the top anyway. So that'll that works. Great. >> Appreciate it. Thanks. >> Thank you. Um anything under agenda review? This is where we post in our agenda items that have been referred to the various committees of the Orno town council. uh the projects and their status and um and then we also look at the uh we don't have any tabled items, right? So, and then we also look at agenda review and clarification to see if there's anything anybody needs moved or questions about tonight's agenda or with unanimous agreement uh additions to tonight's agenda. We'd also ask that due to Ramadan, if any member of the public would like to have an item discussed earlier in the agenda, we'd be happy to accommodate that request as well. Are there any of those requests before us this evening or this afternoon? Seeing none online. Okay. So, we'll move on from agenda review to approval of minutes. I'll take a motion to approve the minutes of the town council meeting on uh March 2nd and the town council workshop minutes for the library construction. Can I have a motion? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded and we'll do a quick roll call vote um given that Jacob's online. So, councelor Larway >> I'll stand since I wasn't able to participate. >> Council Hart >> approved. >> Council Dear approved. Council Powers >> approved. >> Council Quinn approves. Council Baker >> approved. >> Approved. Excellent. That is five to zero with one abstension. Public comments. This is an opportunity in the Orno's uh town council meetings. We have two public comment periods and we also invite members of the public to join all of our discussions um as they come up. So, is there anyone here who'd like to speak with us about anything that's not on our agenda tonight? And again, we call on people to join us for discussions as they come up. Okay, seeing none and none online, we'll move next into presentations and discussion items. And we're going to start with a big picture budget of Orno on the Orno municipal side only. So, town manager Clint, thank you. So, again, we've outlined a new process this year for the town. Um this is the beginning stages of looking at a budget much earlier and um in fact we were a week early in getting out this packet to you. If you looked at the original calendar, we didn't think we would be able to have this glimpse until a week from now and then a manager recommended budget coming the end of the month, beginning of next. But the uh we we were able to get this together. Um so we do have it for your review. Um our goal is to get a budget approved in May. Um staying away from the month of June so we can roll into the next year with all the work. Uh I would say the biggest thing I want to share is that this is a night of input from you. This is the earliest a budget ever gets done. You're seeing kind of at the same time I see a budget for the first time. What are all our expenses based upon the departmental requests? What are the revenues where they sit today? Nothing new going on, no new projections. What happened with revenue sharing? What happened with some of those items? So, when you see this and we start going through some of the PDFs that the PDF that goes with it, you're going to see some fairly high numbers and that's because that's usually where most of these budgets typically start. Um, I would not and as the memo says, characterize this as a worst case scenario. This represents a typical starting place of a budget. Um, how much we better we do or don't do will be based upon some of the guidelines you give to me as I work forward on a manager recommended budget. But I like to have goals. We had good goals last year for the budget that we were able to adhere to. Um, and there's also a couple questions that we go in there. Um, one in particular that I recall was last year we looked heavily towards what the growth would be on expenses. Um, without looking at revenues, without looking at school, without looking at county, what's the town's municipal expense increase or change? And if that's the case, this would be the night that I think the most if you had guidance would do the best for me to go back and work with staff to figure out where we should go from there. So that kind of takes you through um the beginning of the memo. Again, I do foresee three versions. This is version one, very raw, early data. The documents in here though represent the ones that if anybody wanted to look at a budget and not read all the detail that will be coming in the next two versions, it's fine. um the next version after this which will not be 100% complete. There's still numbers, revenue side, um wage scales, a few other things that are being developed that won't be in that version, but that would be the manager recommended. And from that budget, the council then makes your amendments and ask for more information. But from that point forward, you can the council would make a motion to amend the manager's budget or make a motion to ask the manager to amend the budget and to bring back what would be the final council approved budget. you would see a final budget that you would approve um with or without changes. Uh as we go through, I think I if you could go down to page four where this PDF start, I'd like to kind of quickly highlight some of the attachments. Um historical data is new. If you haven't can't Oh, and actually maybe bring it up. Cody, can you bring up the first budget so people at home can see um the PDFs we're talking about? We're on page four. Um, this is the municipal historical data. This is newish. You've seen variations of this over the past few years. Um, I think councelor Marks has had a hand in some of these. I think other counselors have. Um, so this is a draft and like I said, if you can't tell by the middle of it, it's in bright orange draft. We're still reviewing. Um, the way to tell you this, there's a council budget. There's your tax municipal valuation returns. Then there's the audited budgets. And I've been working and I don't mind saying I work with an outside retired town manager to kind of look at all the data and the numbers because when you change managers and you change administrations, sometimes the historical knowledge can be hard to recreate. So I wanted to make sure we did it in a way that was fair and consistent. Um, in chatting with her, I think that we both all we both kind of came to the same conclusion that the best method is I'm going to go back and update all the historical data, especially below the orange bar, um, to match your audit. And so then what we'll do is we'll block out and right now the only final audit we have is through 2024. Uh, 2025 is pending and I will update it with the pending data, but that is pending. 2026 is my first budget year. We're still in it. We haven't finished it, but it's a good resource. And I like what it's starting to show is it can start to show some trends. Whether we add more years as we go forward and leave 18 as the beginning year and just keep adding columns. I think at some point no more than 10 um will be the appropriate number to have. But I went back to 2018. thought it was important to get back prior to CO. Um, but as you go through some of the things that especially below the uh just above the orange bar, the net town assessment, that's one of the other ones that I'm also going back because we came into a really good agreement on how we would calculate that last year, how we're going to show that. This ties into the one-page report that you will see here in a page after this that represents 2027. Um, I want to go back and redo the math to make sure everything's consistent because they didn't report out their expenses and revenues the same. So, it's important we have that consistency, but it did stick out to me that when you see these numbers at the first blush, you know, um, in in 2025 and in 2026, um, you know, since uh, you had an interim town manager, Cornell Knight in 25, myself for 26, but it is kind of stick out to you when you look at those numbers and you're seeing 5.2 2 5.54 494954 5451. That's the amount of tax dollars that I'm seeing on the initial first reading that the town had to contribute towards the municipal budget. No school, no county, no wastewater, just that side of the budget. And when you come forward, you see it, you know, it drops to 42 and f four. Um, that's a dip. That's very positive for the community to see a reduction on our side of taxes from a tax dollar only standpoint, not on total expenses, not on how much revenues we get. Some of that is tied to increased revenues and use of fund balance and use of ARPA and increased municipal revenue sharing. Um, going back in time, you know, hindsight, we're 2020. Is 4.2 the right number in 2025? I think we got to own them that that's what they are. So, but again, and that's what I just started to look at is that is not typical to see a dip like that would be something different. It sticks out. Um, but the net assessment for the total municipality starts to come in line a little bit more. Um, I did some numbers. You can do your own math on the percent increases, but if you go back to 2018 at 12.7 and then you come forward to 14, it's a $1.2 million increase. But again, roughly over 10 years, you're only talking about 120,000 a year. 1% a year is what you've gone up on the total taxes. Just rough numbers, but it's I think this sheet does the most to tie in a high level what's going on in Orno, which I think >> net assessment for municipal commitment. Right above the orange line. >> Yeah, right above the orange line. That's the net assessment. And again, all this is draft. I want to redo the math, make sure everything ties out to our audits. Um then below the orange, just so you know, our tiff district commitment. These are all things that happen after your taxes are set or budget set by you because you have to wait till the final uh valuations being calculated that we do in August. So that's the amount of money the tiff district commitments, how much money goes into that reserve fund. Overlays, how much you're raising, you know, for for excess on, you know, again, usually this is for abatements. Um we're Orno goes fairly low um in the not low but lower. Um and you can see on the municipal valuation return I believe last year was the the lowest we could go was something like 66,000. The highest was close to 800,000. Um so we're on the lower side. I wouldn't call it you know valuative in that saying is it enough or not enough. Um last year it was not enough money. We had a lot of large abatements we issued, but it was a known about contractual relationship voted on just about the time I got hired if I recall. Um, so that affected us negatively last year. Um, the homestead, that's the amount of money we gave back to residents for them being a owned their home for more than a year and it's their their primary residence for single family use, non, you know, it can't be a commercial entity. And Betty's your business equipment tax exemption. That's a reimbursement program for the state of Maine. It's actually undergoing some revisions right now through the the legislature. Um, but that's the amount of money we give for people that apply. They buy new equipment and they're allowed to get a reimbursement or an exemption in this case towards the value because they're reinvesting in their business. It's a economic development tool that the state uses. Um, and then the additional points, mill rate, total town value at commitment, um, the unassigned fund balance that came out of the audit. I did taxes per 100,000. There'll be more in the bigger budget, but taxes per 100 allows you to do whatever math you want. If you want to know what if your house is four times as much, multiply it by four, if it's two and a half times as much. Um, but again, we did it on the on the $100,000 value. Um, it does not take into account that valuations do increase, but that's market driven in, you know, inflation driven, and I haven't found a good way to account for that yet in this form. Um the minimum sewer bill we thought was important to share out what it's been over the years and how it's gone up. Um debt service as a total comes right out of your capital improvement program and the debt principle for the Orno wastewater is in there and that comes right out of your capital improvement program in your audits. So that's the historical that's a big change and I took a little bit more time going through this compared to the others. I can pause for a second before I just quickly touch on the ones that are similar to last year. Any questions about clarifying questions for the town managers walks us through this data? It's very helpful. >> So page five is that first scary glimpse if you will at to what this year's current budgets are looking like. Um I'm going to go right down to the net municipal for commitment. Um there's a lot of data in here, but I think we should get it over to conversation. Last year was 14.1. The first budget's at 15.8. That's 12% up. I would not That's not where the town and staff are going to be, but that's where we are, and I want to make sure we own that moment. Um, but again, I'd like to take council input on that. I think the probably the most identifying item to you'll see that our expenses are up. We're up 1.2 million on operating. That's 9.44. That's the very top line. That's a number you queued in last year. If you have a recommendation in there, I need to hear it. We can start talking about why it's at that number right now. Um, it's pay benefits and insurance. That's that's where that's coming from. >> Where is that? Where's the nine? So, it's >> very top line. 9.44 is the increase to operating expenses before. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Um, you'll see a red reduction in capital expenses, but be careful. It's less total spending, but it's because we're but it just it's actually more from property taxes. If you look at capital projects use of taxes, the first line in those three, you'll see last year we're at 1.47. This year at 1.626, that's 155,000 more in tax dollars going to your capital projects. We are not using our reserves. We're not using ARPA this year because and we're not using TIFF this year because we have no projects eligible. We're taking a break from that. So, we're g just focusing in on the things that wouldn't come from those sources. Um, might be something you want to advise me on what you think there. >> Can I just ask a question on that one? >> Um, is that because none of the police station work is showing up in the FY27 budget because I do think we allocated TIFF funds potentially to that. Correct. So, is this no police work showing till FY28? >> Yep. Does that work? >> So, what? No, that's not true. It will show up. What I'm looking to do is one pages. Your tiff department is not a general fund department. It is not fund one as you would call it in accounting. That is the operating budget. We've been working with finance and we're going to do some pull outs one pagers on all those ones that come in. But this mimics exactly what was in the capital improvement program. The confusion I've been trying to work through is when we bring funds from another department and move it into the operating budget, we got to show it as a revenue clearer and the expense clearer. Um, we're overly dependent on accounting. And again, this isn't an accounting document. This is a budget document. So, I've been working with the team. We're making some great strides there. We kept it simple. Yes, there are tiff funds being used. Yes, there's unassigned fund balance being used that's not showing up yet. But again, those are ones that are working on. Um, we got a meeting with the auditor on it coming up. Zach and I are going to do some more conversations on it. We held back on those at this point. They're still going to be brought forward. I just think it's going to be a separate one page on each of these and and explains how they work in um because the way those would work right now, they have zero impact on property taxes. It's a hundred thou million dollars of fund balance and a million dollars of expenses. 1.2 million a tiff and one 2.2 2 million expenses. 2.2 minus 2.2 is zero. It has no property tax impact. It's more of how we show it so that it's not confusing to the public. And I want to try to simplify it even more than we did last year. >> So, can I just follow up with a quick So, um, so Clint, would it be fair to say when looking at this capital section here then, um, that the same way that those numbers when they come to us are important but are not going to impact tax burden at all? I'm assuming it is also not particularly relevant in any way to look at our capital expenses being down because that's primarily simply from the two lines right above it where we're down at 684. That's really just because we are not taking money out of tiff capital reserves or other capital reserves or grants like ARPA. So in terms of looking at what we're doing with our capital spending that we have some significant control over, the only act really important figure for us as a council is really probably the first one. Yep. >> With capital projects use of taxes where we're up um 155. Yep. >> Is that correct? >> Yep. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> Okay. About halfway through the 30 minutes a lot for this Clint. >> Yeah. And I'm almost done. So, I mean, the revenues, I hit the one key point there that we that I wanted to discuss, which is the use of of or the loss of municipal revenue sharing. We're down 253,000 in that revenue. Um, working on different calculations how we do it. But again, uh, we're our value is growing. So, we have more ability to tax. More ability to tax means less ability for the state to reimburse you. Um, I would remind everyone Orno still is one of the highest receivers per population and per value. um in fact the highest based upon population and value in the state of Maine. There are some large cities, Portland, that have a bigger dollar amount. But again, when you compare us as a ratio of value and and uh and population, we're the biggest receiver. And that's because the easiest way to explain it, lay persons, we have a large percentage of untaxable property in our community. That would go a different way. Um I think former counselors have discussed this. You know, you're a you're a town of 6,000 people with a population of 11. That's the reality of Orno. So, we keep working on that. You mean like a town of 6,000 property taxpayers or taxable properties? Yeah. >> Yeah. If the impossibility were to occur and University of Maine never ever got built, Orno would look different. If it disappeared today, which it would never would, you'd be left with 6,000 people. >> Yep. >> 5,000 people are associated with that. >> Yep. >> facility. >> Yep. >> Um so, uh that again, this mirrors the historical data. I made the historical data in this look like each other so that people could go in back and forth between the two. I opted not to put the 2027 numbers in there because it's not yet an adopted budget. Um everything but that is there. So I wanted to have those separated out for that reason. Um that being the case the next few pages the only thing I wanted the operating expense budget uh also cost center which is starts on page six. A lot of new data has come forward. The read your memo, but uh the full-time equivalent count and the increase due to wages is all in the notes on every one of those pages. This is a quick look, but it's a great place to find that detail. So, when you look right off the bat in general government, our full-time count uh was 11 last year. It's 11 this year. The non-discretionary increase is the term I'm using with staff was based upon a wage and benefit increase of $75,000 plus workers comp of another five total of 80 in that non-discretionary category increases just to maintain the status quo. Um I'm not going to go through this line by line. That's never been the approach I wanted to take. Revenues on the starting on page seven is a longer document but at line by lines every revenue we receive and what we budgeted at. If you ever see anything in yellow, it means we cannot determine that until after commitment. Those numbers are subject to change. Um, so that's why that colors used throughout that yellow means you just can't set it. It's we're using in most cases it's last year's number. And I did keep in the wage comparison on page 10. I think it's important for you to see the departmental wage comparison. Um it shows you this is wages only, no benefits. Um what's happening and we're at a 606,000 increase, 10.88%. Um there are no we're in the middle of negotiations with some unions under disclosure rules. None of the numbers tie out to any of the offers. Um that's I think fair negotiating practice to leave them at a just an estimated number that don't tie into either offer of the town or of them and we will continue to negotiate on that basis. Um the wage scale is still not adopted for non-union because we haven't had one. Last year you skipped it. I am close. Hopefully within the next few meetings you will have a final version to review with a policy to approve. Um so again those are on I've aired to the higher side I think but again not certain till we finalize some of those. So wage allocation changes would be like we've hired EJ but we don't have um um >> a planner >> contracted planer. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Um and then WPCF's the last one going over that. It's only the expense budget. Um, we're sticking true to last year's plan that it would do 5% a year to a rate increase so that it could improve its debt capacity as well as its reserve capacity to do the over $6 million worth of deferred work that they want to look at, including route two with Sludge Press, Benic Road, and Hillside. So, that's it. I'll stop there and it's all yours. >> Okay, let's um double back, see if anyone has any clarifying questions for Clint or then we can have kind of a detailed discussion. Any clarifying questions? Going once, going twice. I >> I'm not sure if this is clarifying or discussion. And it I think in my reading of this, it was one of those like comes out on both sides, winds up at zero, doesn't have an impact. But the um uh contractual shift to a revenue sharing model that's mentioned um on on both the expense and the revenue side. Um it seems to be in equal parts. Uh it's partic specifically in parks and wreck. It looks like it's related to the relationship with the university. Um I was just wondering if you could um parks and recck will be here to answer if we view in more detail, which I would definitely suggest at that point. This is more the higher level, but we switch to a revenue sharing agreement rather than an expense driven model. So their revenues are way up, but their expenses are way down because they're a direct receiver of the revenue. So they're budgeting for it very differently. >> Yep. >> Thank you. Still probably more money to be made if Megan wasn't giving away all those ice creams all summer long. Yeah. But people seem to like it. Yeah. >> Um any other kind of questions before we get So the start of the menu has three the start of the >> three bullets. >> Three bullets at the top. Any more questions before we open up that discussion? And let's talk quickly um Clint about schedule. I'm calling up the when are we next having a council. >> So the snow the storm threw me first. It's a new approach and we're doing it quicker and then we missed a week. Um, and in all of that, it wasn't the way it was planned out when the calendar was written last November. So, we're a little bit behind. The goal was to get to the council by the 20 uh 23rd a copy of what's called the manager recommended with all the detailing items. It's tight. Not going to say it won't happen because I hate to admit defeat, but it's going to be close. Um, the good news is is that we had a plan to be approved in May, early May, and we've got the month of May to work. And there's extra meetings built in for April. So, it just may be that you're going to see the manager recommended budget in two versions, early draft and refined draft. And I would urge if we could and just get to the refined one and take an extra week or so, that would be better. But yeah, right now we're looking that the council would see this on the 23rd for a public discussion um with a manager recommended being presented. And you pulling up the calendar? I can pull up the calendar and tell you the body's calendar is posted online and our current after the 23rd I believe the staff is the next one in on the 30th. Let me pull it up so I don't speak out of turn. Yeah, on March 30th is the departmental night where they're all here. I want to make sure you have it by the 23rd so you're prepared for them. So, we might have to move that one out a week. And then on the 6th would be that movement of a week. But again, everything's just at this point looking like it may slide one week. >> Okay. >> 17th is the no meeting. >> 17th of March, >> April. Okay. But the 17th of March is a regular council meeting, right? So >> 17th of March is a regular council meeting and that one is the that's when I was supposed to have you available a copy of the manager budget and it's just not going to be there. It's going to be the 23rd at best. >> Actually, there's Yeah, the 23rd is the the Okay. The 17th would it' be ready, but we didn't have a meeting and the 23rd is our council meeting. >> Yep. >> Okay. So you get and again I would urge with that coming out we have a pretty good budget here. You could have more time on the 23rd for a workshop. There's currently only three major items for that that date which is good. So far so good. >> So far so good. >> Okay. Um All right. Let's let's you want to dive into these topics. Right. So we've got kind of a high level big picture question. The first bullet on the information needed from the council um is how high a priority is sustaining current service levels. Should any be expanded, reduced or held steady? Um Jacob, do I see you coming in off mute? Do you want to anything you want to Yeah, I wasn't, but sure. I um have some thoughts on that. I think our current service levels are we've done a really good job um in the past few years as far as um increasing our community programs uh increasing our transparency um with the surveys with orno festival days um and then also with with orno stops we've done a good job at what I believe the data will show but um slowing traffic down and we've got some, you know, better crosswalks on Main Street. So, I I think, you know, we've done a very good job the past few years. Um, I think given the the level of um projects we have, uh, capital projects in the next few years, I I like this budget. Um, I certainly would not like to, you know, see it increase more. Right. I think we're we're good from a service perspective and and wouldn't want us wouldn't want to see a lot of money spent in in increasing services um given the level of capital projects we have coming in in the next few years. >> Okay, let's go. Rob, you want to start in your end and we'll work our way down. Give everybody a bite at this one. >> Sure. Honestly, I think I'm in agreement with Jacob on that. Yep. Andrea. >> Um, in basically in agreement, I I would like to see um what we can do to help with rebuilding, improving, helping Megan with the uh recck department, what services we could improve upon their uh employee staffing. Um what would help the park and recck department basically. Um and just a reminder too that um just again this is my second year with the budget but things were either put off, reduced, not spent, not saved for. So at some point as Sarah mentioned in our last meeting, we are going to have to figure out where funds are coming from, how we're going to pay for things. Um, and at some point we are going to have to be the bad guys that say, you know, we didn't set money aside for this. We have to do that now. You want these services. These have to be fee forward. Um, I'd like us to not have to do that in a huge jump in one year, but that's is something we have to consider. >> Okay. Um, so that was a little bit more than hold steady it sounded like from you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, council marks. >> Um, yes, I feel very good about the level of services that we're at. Um, I do agree with Andrea that longer term we need to take a look at our capital planning, but I I don't feel like there's being that's sort of been presented to us that that's not part of this year that staff's not ready to have that conversation. Um, so for me, I don't want to see service levels go up for sure. I do want to just point out what Clint brought up, which is this is the beginning budget and somewhere things are going to have to get cut or the taxpayers are going to be looking at a very big increase. So, you know, right now when we see an operating expense growth of 9.44%. That's very high. I mean, I'm hoping we're going to see that come down, but if we don't, um, the net town assessment, which is up 1,527,000, that's very close to 2 mil increase for our taxpayers. Our evaluation is somewhere between 700 and 800,000. So, that's a very big tax increase if we don't look at bringing this budget down somewhere. So, I guess what I want to say is I like the level of services we're at, but I am concerned about not passing on that kind of tax increase, and we might have to look at decreasing something if we can't find other ways to solve that. So, that's where I'm at. No increase. And I need us to hear that, you know, we're either going to be passing on a big tax increase or finding ways to bring something down. >> Okay, Matt. >> Yeah. I think um one of the things is the level of service that we're maintaining continues to be cost more and and that's just the way it is. I mean because of um inflation and we have to continue to make sure that our that the people here are supported and have the money to to buy food and whatnot. And so I understand that like and also we have grants and things that are going to be finishing and so we're going to take over um we may be taking over um uh expenses that were offset by by by other grants and and then hopefully we'll get new grants for other things but um I I don't see it being necessarily the time to um get huge new um um increases in services some places. I also um resonate with Andrea about the fact that we have the a lot of buildings. We have a lot of things that I think we have to save for at some point and we have to make big decisions on on um how we're going to maintain our facilities and maintain our things which may cost more. And the longer we we put that off, the more expensive that's going to be. So, um it is an interesting time we're at. But but I'm I'm optimistic and and and I trust the staff and I'm really optimistic that we're going to um be able to provide um the staff here with what they need and also be able to um be intelligent about cutting if we have to cut services, cut services intelligently and and do it in a way that's that is um productive for the community. But hopefully we won't have to get that far. That's my hope. Um >> John, >> yeah. Um I'm I think pretty supportive of maintaining the current service levels. I think that's, you know, there's a, as you were saying, things are not getting cheaper. And I think people, uh, everybody, we're we're all in that same world where things are continually getting more expensive. And I I I want to prioritize, uh, making the town a a a place that really values the the staff that's doing the work. and and that that's reflected in how how long people want to stay and how people want to work here and um uh and I think maintaining the current service levels is part of that that we're not asking folks to do things on a shoestring. Um, I I also just wanted to bring up, you know, or acknowledge the, you know, half a million dollars in loss of revenue sharing and increased uh um increase requests from the county that, you know, there's nothing there's there's no there's no accounting your way out of it. Um, and that that's going to have to be part of this conversation as well. and don't necessarily want to um you know it's not it's not like a hey just pass it on to the next person kind of problem but also don't want to plan our service levels and our um you know the things that really makeo what it is around uh these big municipal and state level uh sorry county and state level changes. >> Okay. Um, I tend to, um, agree with what's been said about holding service levels where they are. I, um, I don't have anything, um, that comes to mind in terms of expansions. I do, this does include, this budget does include funding for the firefighters that are um, as as we are now, right, with the um, safer grant. We're rolling those over, right? >> Correct. And the only and yeah, the Well, yeah. Correct. >> Now, um, so It sounds like the consens the consensus guidance you're getting on this first bullet is service levels are good longer term or perhaps if we can think about things to do with wreck. We're getting a little information about that. Um the operating expense piece. Anyone have anything more to add about that? Sarah sounded like you might have touched it on a little bit with your comments, but that was the second bullet. Yeah. Do you have more to say about anyone have any more specific things to say about that piece? For me, it feels like they kind of go hand in hand, right? If you have if you're going to keep your service levels and your staff, then the operating expenses are where they're going to work out, but to the extent that people have thoughts they want to share here. Go ahead. Do we want to go down the line? >> Not everybody wants to. Why don't you start then we'll go if anybody else wants to follow up. Um, okay. Thanks. Um, this is the part I'm really again appreciated what Clint said about this being a starting point for the budget because it is scary. Um, to see, you know, growth that's practically 10% is not really sustainable. So, um, you know, I know that we've talked about in past years looking at what is CPI. I do think if we're looking at CPI, we have to look at wage CPI, not the regular consumer good one, which you know is typically around 4% a year. Um most of our operating expenses, 60s something or 70% I would have the number, but a large percentage is our wages. It's not fully that it's less than it is for example um I think at the schools, but um so you know to me I would like to see that number not be at nine and a half. That feels too big to me for us to maintain. I don't know what staff will bring back to us about what's possible there. But I don't expect us to see numbers that are as low as the four and 5% that are probably the average wage growth. I think we're still catching up from 22 and 23 when we had huge inflation happening and wages had to catch up with that after the fact because people were, as people in the back would tell you, locked into lots of union contracts that were going up at set amounts. So, I think we have some catching up to do, but I think nine and a half is too high. Um, I would be curious what others would say. I would personally like to see something that was closer to seven maybe would feel, you know, reasonably sustainable and still making up for things. But, um, you know, I do think it's important to to take a look at that because it is the major driver of our cost growth and it is really really high this year, much higher than we've seen. >> Jacob, thank you sir. 1%. Jacob said 1% for operating cost increases. >> That's right. Cut everything. Cut everything. Yeah. >> Well, I was trying to click the uh mute button. No. Um to to Sarah's point, um question for Clint or anybody. Um, a lot of the increase uh is characterized in the summary as uh non-discretionary um or mandatory uh wage increases um which I'm not opposed to. But uh what percentage of our staff is encumbered by union contracts where you know they they have mandatory steps and um I'd imagine a chunk of them are but approximately what percentage of our staff is encumbered by union contracts? >> I'd like to look at the exact. We have 85 full-time employees and 35 are not union and the rest would be union. That's rough numbers. >> Okay. >> And so then my point in asking that question is I'm, you know, unfortunately those are wage increases or not unfortunately those are wage increases that that we've agreed to. Um, and so, you know, now Clint and others have to to put those into the budget. Um, and something that that we don't have to negotiate. When I first came into council, I I really thought we would have a lot of discretion on the budget and and unfortunately what I'm learning as as a council is that we have very there's very few discretionary items unless we really want to start cutting staff or or services, which is not something I'm at all advocating for. So, um I would like to, you know, see us balance expenses, but also understand the the tight spot that that staff is in. But if you want to do only 1% increase, I'm fine with that. As Dan said. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. Does anyone else want to weigh in on a number? I So, we've had No. Sarah articulated 7%. So, do we have Do you feel like that's a I don't know if we're going to ask for consent? I mean, if everyone's like, "Yeah, 7%'s got to be it." And we'd have a consensus that we give back to staff. I don't know that I'm there when I'm ready to put a number on, you know, nail down a number that I want to pass back to staff at this point. Um, lower is better. I think we're we're there. Yeah. >> And I guess I want to clarify that. I'm not saying I would vote for that. I don't know what that would cut, but I'd like to see something that came in more at that level so I knew what would have to go to get us there. Yep. >> Right. >> And we won't hold anybody to these are the point of these discussions, right? kind of guidance and you know we we've got another couple rounds of this and I appreciate the way that transparency has been brought forward uh that we've got more more budgets to look at as we go but lower is better but no number okay >> sure >> just um one follow-up detail on that I wanted to really call out I don't know Clint or whoever staff worked on this um operating expense budget page that's by cost center um which was really helpful I don't know if everyone's had time to look at it It does tell us exactly, you know, where what's growing in each cost center and I think it's what Dan was calling out or John on the non-discretionary increases, whoever called that out. It's very very helpful. Um I just the top two columns are the comment boxes I think could be expanded for us because they're not adding up to something close enough for me on the difference number. um there's like, you know, twothirds of it there, but not a third. And I'm really comfortable with all the boxes down below where we come in with 10 20% because there's just growth on every line. I fully understand that. But those top two boxes, if we could get a little more breakdown that comes closer to the 164 or the 36, that would be helpful to me as we go into the next round of discussion. Thank you. Yep. >> Then the final question, the bullet was, what guidance can you provide on net assessment? Should we aim for a specific number or percentage outcome? What's that? Anybody? I just like I'm curious Sarah and also Clint on this like if we shot for 7% is that like a absolute like cut to the bone bare bones type of budget. I'm just curious like or or could you even say that right now? because I'm wondering like what is a like >> the reduction expenses would be 300,000. >> Okay. >> Which is not in insignificant I guess is where I would start with. Um but it is the very first number we put out here. It's the first attempt at this and and although we've combed hard, we also owned the budgets that were coming forward and where they put us and said let's start here and really see where we're at. Um most of my ideas are moving towards how we can generate more revenue right now. I hate to tell you that, but there are some levers there that are significant in the sense 50 to 100,000 each. And I'm starting to look at those pretty closely to see what we could do. Um, you know, kind of the thoughts are is if we could do, you know, 250,000 in revenues, hypothetically, that offsets the loss that we're kind of dealing with above and beyond the revenue sharing. I worked pretty hard through the revenues and without adding new types of revenues or expanding how we do our revenues, we did come up with um 300,000 more um just budgeting more accurately and aggressively to historic to our current trends. Um 300,000 expenses. I mean, we are early. I mean, I don't know where we're going to end up on wages and benefits, but there could be that could be pretty close to that number once we refine it in that we get to those. So, um, that's only going to become aware in the next month or two. >> Okay, that's fine. >> So, we got to wait. >> I guess I guess my clarifying then for for Sarah when you ask about that you would feel more comfortable down around 7%. Is that like I guess like I think that that's an interesting um thing to have put in front of us. Like is that an option? But what I'm asking is are you asking like what could you give me like a bare bones like is that what you're asking or you're just saying this is kind of where I'm coming from a 7% seems reasonable. I guess that's what I'm asking because that would clarify when I look at that like if that comes to me. I I would want to then not be like could you then come back at me at like you know 6 and a half% cuz I could see you know that's that's all I'm clarifying is like I want to know where you're coming with that so that if we get that then we know this is like our our bottom or this is kind of like our minimum. That's just me for my information. >> Do you want me to answer? >> Go ahead. I mean, for me, Matt, it really comes from what I said to begin with that it's more looking at everything we add compounds as years go on, right? And if what's typical on on the operating side is something much closer to four or five looking at, you know, average wage growth across the country, 9.4, we are way out of whack on that for one year, which will compound for years into the future. So I am simply putting out a number that I think might be reasonable given that we're still catching up on these years when inflation was out of control in our country and you know wages need to catch up. Staff need to be paid for their time. They need to be paid for what they do and they can't be asked to do more than what's reasonable in their job. Right? >> So there are hard decisions for us if seven isn't attainable. I don't know what we look at next. Maybe seven's not the perfect number. I'm wide open if Clint comes back and says 7.5 is the number. I'm simply saying something that's got to be for me lower than nine to not scare me about what we're creating for the future. Not that I would then say, "Oh, great. You got me seven. Now bring me five. That's not where I'm planning to go." >> Okay. No, I I'm just Thanks. That that does clarify it for me. And and um and I'm totally comfortable if if we can fall somewhere in that range to have a look at what that would mean. >> Okay. Anything else from anybody on the assessment piece? I mean, I know that if we're going to do, you know, service levels first, then operating expenses and then it feels like assessment, those things all add up to what the assessment's going to be. So, anyone have anything they want to share on that in terms of things for us to consider as guidance or >> I guess I'll I'll just uh put in another voice of support for the seven number um as a potential target if only because I mean it I was trying to think about sort of how we give some sort of numerical target that just doesn't feel arbitrary and just like ADA is lower but I guess it right it is sort of the the middle between say a 5% and the nine that we're >> yep >> faced with. That seems like a reasonable place to start for me. >> And we're not asking for Clint, you you haven't asked us for and we're not suggesting that we're going to make any suggestions for you in terms of you're going to come back to us. We're not going to play that game. Yeah. They're not going to pick stuff off a menu or anything like that. We don't your expertise. No, >> no. I'm saying I want the expertise of staff. You're the ones that have to execute off the budget that we approve, but you should be the ones giving us clear direction on what you think. You know, that's how I think it should go. >> I only want a menu if it comes with fries. >> I do. Hey, >> in terms of what's been provided, like >> I do appreciate the um the commentary that's on here just in terms of like how we talk about these things to be able to say like this is the real world implication, right? like that that that was really helpful to me reading through this and I hope we kind of continue to see that information as well so that as we're talking about like what a potential cut looks like we're able to communicate like or or a potential increase in in um cost that we're able to say no this is what it this is what comes from it. >> Yeah. Okay. And then I think we're going to get close to wrapping up. We're already >> Jacob >> if Jacob's got something else obviously but >> um >> no I said I actually believe with you or I agree with you wholeheartedly Dan. I would prefer to listen to the experts instead of going blind by line items. So, >> yeah. Okay. >> I'm fully in agreement on that. I'm really liking the direction we're moving that's away from that kind of granular detail and into this bigger picture plan and then having staff bring things back. I did want to say though on the um not though, I guess in continuation on this net assessment question, which again that might be a vague term for the public, but that really means like how much you're going to get taxed is what net assessment really means. Um and when we look at this draft which Clint says again preliminary draft first one nothing that's actually coming at taxpayers but right now we are looking at a mill rate of mill increase of two entire mills practically it's just under 1.9 which I just need to say to me is too high. I don't think we can pass on a 2 mill increase to taxpayers. So, I would like to see from staff so that not just council but also the community members could see if we had something that came in at 1.5 increase, what would we have to let go in order to get that? If we came in at one, what would we have to let go? And I don't mean that as a menu where then I can go in and pick and choose which parts of it I want. But I think the community needs to be able to see um if we as a council are choosing to stay at two, here's the reason. Because what we had to give up to get to 1.5, we did not think was sustainable or right for what the community wants or what we would have to give up to get to one. So personally, I would like to see something that tells me what do we have to give up to get the net assessment down to just a 1 mil increase and what do we have to get up to get to 1.5 and then if we don't want to give up those things then we have to as a council, you know, be willing to own that. That those aren't things we think the community wants to give up and we're going to stay then at this, you know, 1.9. So that's what I'd like to ask for is to see what would be one and what would be 1.5 in comparison to 1.9. Thank you. >> All right. So, that's one re that's a request and just to see if that's a something the council wants to see. Thank you. Um, >> yeah, >> I'll support. >> I'd like to see I don't want to say bare bones because then we've got employees scrambling, but I have a question on the when you're talking about the mill increase, is that including the county increase? >> Yeah, that's everything. >> I don't think Well, school's not in yet either. school's non component. >> So it could be greater if the school goes up which I expect the school's going to go up this year. >> So is there a cons? Let's talk about the the one and a half and the one mil um scenario planning or you know scenario projections. Um do people others >> Yeah, that seems like a reasonable way to ask for it in a digestible >> communicable way. >> Matt. >> Yeah, I like that. >> Okay, good. Seems like and it's not going to be unduly Clint for you guys. You'll be able to do that for your team. Okay. All right. Perfect. That's a good way to look at it and much better than I don't I don't care what the steel toe boots cost, you know. You know, I don't want to try and find the savings there. Um and I are we getting ready to wrap up. We're you know 18 minutes over budget on this conversation. Um, so I would say that there are um significant fiscal challenges at the university as well. And I'm going to keep putting a plug in and this would be a new thing, right? And we're talking about not doing new things, but at some point some year sooner or later, we got to get um we got to have serious conversations about the fact that we've got a a city that operate a $280 million city operating within our $15 million small town. And there's got to be opportunities for us to find savings there. Um I don't care if it says University of Maine on the side of the truck that plows my road. Uh as long as it gets plow, you know, as long as it gets plowed, it's done well. And that's not to undercut anybody that works for the town, but we've got to get start getting serious about having those kinds of, you know, I mean, the the festival day, return, we turning the festival day and going and doing the dunk tank thing, those that's the start. But eventually it's got to mean it's got to matter to the point where um we we have some opportunities to find some savings. So, okay. So, we'll close this one out. Thank you. That was a good discussion, I thought. And I appreciate the work staff did. Clint, you need anything else from us on this? Okay. Next up, um is item 5B, a discussion of the parks ordinance and camping. This results from some questions we had about I see our park director's coming up. um some questions about where and where people are allowed to park uh camp in Oro um seemingly indefinitely and so we're going to get a little feedback >> real quick. Sorry, thank you all but I'm out of here. So, thank you for for acquiesing. >> Thanks for thanks for tuning in. Appreciate it. Good night. >> Good evening. Megan Misella, parks and rec director. Um, I'd like to start by reviewing our current ordinance language that will be in chapter 26. And I'm going to start at article 2. Um, section 2626. Public parks, areas, and open spaces are as defined. Public parks, and areas, open spaces are defined as any townowned or town controlled property that is used for recreational purposes and shall be governed by this chapter. This shall include but is not limited to and proceeds to lists all the places that have park names or trail names um in this section. Uh later in the section um section 26-29 it gets to define camping within this ordinance camping. No person shall set up or use any tent, camper, shack, or temporary shelter for the purpose of overnight or daytime camping. Nor shall any person leave movable structures or special vehicle that could be used for such purposes such as house trailer, camp trailer, tent, shack in a public park or/open area or space without written peri per permission from the town manager or designate. Um we have added in this discussion the ordinance language of a neighboring town brewer. Um their ordinance language is a little bit more poignant as to define camping. I do have an excerpt here from their ordinance language as well. Um that is found in the city of Brewers chapter 15 article 7 um section 704.1 in definitions. Their definition of camping um states that camping shall mean the presence of structures such as cabins, shelters, tents or huts or any shelter designate designated or erected for the purpose of staying and or sleeping regardless of the materials used, length of time or other intentions for use. Um the largest difference between these two things is we define public parks and areas very specifically. Uh, Brewers is a bit more broad. Their ordinance language is quite large. Um, it is attached to the to the minutes there if you if you'd like to read those in depth. Um, but I wanted to state those two things as kind of where other towns define those similar things that uh occur in parks. Um, I also have Chief Merryill here with me. if we uh do you do have any questions about the ordinance languages um or questions for staff about this topic? >> Okay. Um so anybody well let's talk let's look at these other two images first. I mean, this is we had conversations and questions about the fact we've had people who are experiencing homelessness living under the Brandon Silk Bridge all summer long, right? Um, so we've had some community concerns and I'll leave it to perhaps council Harderson to kind of bring forward what she's heard, but that um in parts prompted this conversation. in the in the material in the agenda, there's both um a couple of images from what was hauled out after um this the trailer full of stuff um is one image and then there's a um an image it looks like from the bridge where kind of a garbage um left in that space underneath the bridge. So I guess do you want to is there anything you could speak to about that? >> Uh yeah I think the chief should speak. He's given me some great information that he was coming prepared to talk about about how you know not only the frequency of some of the concerns that were brought to their attention but also how we u manage them very differently because we have policies in place that say we're supposed to. >> Um so yes >> so I'll chime in. Dan Merrill police chief. Um, so I would say foundationally for us, it starts for me in our policies and procedures. That is online. So we have them online, right? So I think it's 058. Is that what I told you? 058 or 053. It's online. It's called the homelessness protocol essentially. Um, that's the foundation where we start in the police department in our guiding decisions when we're dealing with people that are unhoused. Um, so that's our base. Um, and then we'll work in the ordinance as we need. Um, I can tell you that as long as I've been here, it seems like, especially in the summertime, people will drift into town and stay for a certain amount of time and sometimes they come back annually, sometimes they don't come back, and sometimes when they leave, a new group of people will come in. Um, and sometimes they stay for just the summer, and sometimes they stay for longer. Um, so it is definitely something that we've dealt with here for, you know, at least the last 16 or 17 years. um and something that the police department this past summer was aware of and I know that we've talked about it here at the council a few different times about some concerns um and citizens that were living here in town that um were unhoused and what we were doing for them. Um, and I guess at an awareness level that was we're well aware for sure. And it I think I characterized it to Clint as it does not come without a um impact on services and the police department and public works and pretty much all town staff. So >> yeah, >> anecdotally those pictures are representative of what staff sees when we go out there. >> Yeah. And then but some of the some of the work that your department does is checking in like wellness checks and stuff like that too, right? I mean you're checking in on people. So like before the construction and stuff like that, someone stopped down and >> Yeah. I again if you looked at our policy the the guidance on the homelessness protocol is it comes straight from the state of Maine. Um it's a policy that's I'm 99% sure it's a mandatory policy for all the state. Yeah. It's a MCJ mandatory policy. All law enforcement agencies are required to have this policy. So, it starts with not criminalizing people that don't have homes. And there are certain crimes specifically that are listed in our policy that says that if you can, short of it being a violent situation, we would prefer you take an alternate path of resolution. Um, so you know, again, those are the things that we lean into and we're fortunate here that I don't know of somebody that's come to town that we haven't interacted with in one way, shape, or form um to at least see how they're doing in my time that I've been here. >> Do you have um a sense of how many incidents of trespass were involved? couple of the ones that we had here this summer. It was there were probably at least six, I think five or six businesses that the people that were living in the downtown area get trespassed from for one reason or another, whether it was just >> Yeah. >> Any repeats where someone would go back after they'd been asked not to come in? >> I don't think we had any significant issues with them going back and us having to take any action against them. It's kind of like you can't go here, so you go there and then you just keep going around around until you get the services you need, >> right? >> Or what you need. Does the um Megan, this is fair to you, you know, is the under the bridge qualify as a park in our definition of parks? >> Um, great question. That was um why I read the ordinance so specifically. Um the way our ordinance is currently written, there are properties maintained by the town that are not defined as recreational spaces. So no, it is not does not currently fall under the way the ordinance is written. >> So I'm getting a very subtle nod of yes from the town manager at the end of my and I feel like >> that's not an area that we have much control over. I'll give you that answer. In order to have order to have any type of control, it would have to say or other town managed parcels because it's a state road. We do manage the property underneath the bridge. >> State isn't going to come in and do anything. So, it would have to have additional language to make it very clear that staff is expected to exert some sort of >> Yep. So, you can't park. So, the the and I don't mean to be like just for efficiency. I guess I'm just kind of leading this back and forth on behalf of the council now, but we're all going to talk, you know, anybody who wants to talk about going to be able to talk about it. But to the extent that it's clear that you can't the activity that happened under the bridge could not happen in Webster Park, like that sort of that level of residing or you know, camping, I guess. Um, and we don't have any authority in our ordinance currently to say that you can't camp under the bridge as it as it now reads. We would have to start going down the whether it's littering, whether they're doing things that are causing other issues, but it would have to move more to the police side only, not town ordinance issues. >> So, we could if we wanted to act, we would have to act to we could act to say that that area, any land maintained by the town is considered a park and camping is prohibited. >> Correct. >> That would be the Okay, >> that's an option. Y >> All right. I think I'm done trying to efficiently lead the conversation. I guess I would ask others if they have first um we'll ask any clarifying questions if anyone from the public wants to join the conversation. It's this is a presentation on an item, but I would certainly welcome someone um and then we'll have a discussion about whether or what we think council should do next is kind of like a future agenda item. Does that make sense to people in terms of how to get everyone's take? All right. Anybody have any clarifying questions other than the ones that I already asked? >> Sure. Council marks. >> Um, just that it did seem that a lot of the trouble this summer was primarily not so much the camping, it was the litter, right? And the things we had to pick up. Um, so I think two questions on that. One is I'm assuming if Dan's question said that the current camping ordinance doesn't apply um under the bridge, but it does apply in Webster Park. Is that true of our littering ordinance? Does that not apply under the bridge or does that apply everywhere in town? Do we have a littering ordinance that applies everywhere in town? And could we consider just some easily accessible receptacles that are right under the bridge so it was easy for people to utilize them? Are my two questions. >> I can tell you anecdotally um one of the complaints or one of the um actions that we took relatively proactively to that litter was our officers actually went down and offered up to them a dumpster and they chose not to use it. So, this is going to be part of the issues that we're going to run into. We can make things available to people, but ultimately we can't it's going to be very difficult to compel them to use use the uh services that we are opening up for them. >> Thanks for letting us know about that. >> I sorry, this is not a clarifying question. So, while we >> Okay. I think mine mine might be just a I think it's clarifying. >> Um, >> we give a lot of latitude. Yeah, sure. Um, is there a uh specific ask from staff for, you know, a a way to better equip you to support folks that are in this situation? >> This council initiated the conversations due to couple different at least a couple different conversations within the community. We've heard it from the business perspectives. Um, absent any new direction or new rules, we're going to do what we did last year, which is the exact same thing again. That's how we're approaching it. Is there a fix to this? Um I don't think there's a simple fix. I mean the uh the best scenario is is there somewhere in Orno that could be eligible for people for homeless camping. Um there's only one community in the greater Bangor area providing that and that is Bangor and that's they use the term encampment. Um so we would have to discuss something along those lines. That would be the only way to provide alternate space at a place that it's deemed acceptable. Um, and I wouldn't even begin to suggest where that could or could not be, but underneath the bridge, um, right now, again, camping allowed, not allowed, it's definitely heavily in a gray area. >> Okay. I would say that I think that what you'd see if you look at other communities or just communities in general, my two senses, I think this is an extremely community specific and communitydriven um, topic. This is something that if I'm standing up here as the police chief, staff is going to do what the town asks us to do and what we can do within the guidelines of our policies and procedures, right? So, if we're we are here genuinely on something like this, I would say to do the will of the council. I I Yeah, that's what we're here for. I I wouldn't try and give you guys any recommendations cuz ultimately we're trying to do what's best for the town. Yep. So, >> no. Understood. So, we have to set policy, right? And that's kind of what >> kind of where we're at, I think. >> And this is a conversation. You we're trying to have a better understanding of whether or not we should change the policy and I guess that's where we're at. So, um anyone else have anything kind of clarifying? I guess I Yeah. discussion stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to ask anybody in the community want to be heard on this one while we're talking about it. If you'd like to come up, we You got to be on the mic though, so people could kind of >> sit down. >> It's not that bad really. But there is a button you have to push to make sure there's a light on. >> Yeah, it's we're super friendly. So, thanks. If you could just introduce yourself by name and Yep. >> Sure. My name is Ann Liken Walner. I'm a citizen of Orono and I've lived here since 2008. Um, we became well, would we like to introduce ourselves, please? >> I'm Betsy Trust. I'm actually just beyond the Orono border on Ben Road uh in Still Water. Um, >> Kathy Anderson from uh Orno Landing Road. So, um, we we came, uh, when this topic last came up a few months ago, um, we, uh, I'm part of a group of friends who have become concerned about, uh, the young man that we knew, um, or that we know, um, Ricky, who has been, um, dwelling in a public space since at least this summer that I know of because I do some volunteer work with the community gardens, both the vegetable garden and the flower gardens in Oro. and have for some years. And I would see this young man in town. I began chatting with him. Uh now again, he seemed like a pretty um okay character and just, you know, um hanging out and peaceful and rather charming. Um very innocent and uh you know u clearly unhoused. And I didn't know what his other issues were. But as it began getting colder, every time I saw him, I would say, you know, you need to think about other options. And he said, I'm not comfortable being housed and I don't want an apartment. I don't want to be in a house. So, it was clear that there was a special need here. And it was clear that for compassionate reasons and fear of his, you know, being exposed that it would be good to be kind of checking on him. So this team of people have been doing this um along with other folks in the community, businesses, um the folks at comm community uh at um at the church of universal fellowship. Thank you. Um and uh and have done so really nicely and he's now spending more time in Bangor and uh apparently willing to take the bus um and apparently willing to spend time like at together place or the the shelter. So, I think that that that particular story is um in better shape. I don't know what will happen in the summer, whether he'll spend more time up here, but I really appreciate that that folks in this community have been willing to um be, you know, kind of lenient and and compassionate for this kind of thing. Bangor is working on better answers to their homeless situation. Um I think that that's a work in pro process. I think that our smaller municipalities would do well to try to partner somehow with Bangor in helping bear some of that burden. And I realize listening listening to the budget discussion that I'm a taxpayer here and I don't want to be overly burdened with taxes, but um you know that kind of compassionate care is uh really you know I think the wave of the future and we're going to have to partner up with uh some of these other municipalities to do it in future. So that was just my take. >> Okay. >> Um and um um Stephie at at at CUF uh asked me to convey that um at least Ricky has been um very charming and he's a gentle soul and um has not been disruptive at all. He he uses church the church for cooking meals, for taking showers, uh doing laundry, and he's been lovely uh throughout all of this. >> Did Ricky camp under the bridge? Is that the same? Yeah, >> in the winter, definitely. I think he was the only one there in the winter, but I'm not sure. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I guess my concern is I I also wanted to say I appreciate what the town has been doing and I wasn't even aware of that there were more people than just Ricky that were unhoused. Um but because of that and because of his story and the the way it's been evolving because of the personal connection that lots of people and organizations have made with him. Um I I think that speaks to uh we're a small community. We're a small town. I think it's a relatively small population of unhoused people. And it it just feels like we should be approaching it in that way because we can at this point in an individualized way. Um because it has made a huge difference for him I think and it might have ended very differently if he wasn't taken care of this winter. And I know that when you get to a bigger community like Bangor that's not as possible but I think we can maintain that level of dignity for these people. his home is under the bridge. It's not that he's camping out, he's living there. Um and um I'd just like to see it continue in that way. And it may not. There may be a need for a stronger ordinance at some point. Um but I don't want to see it be that cut in stone. >> Okay, great. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for coming in with us. I appreciate it. We appreciate it. >> All right, so let's have a discussion. Anybody online? We're all good there. Okay. So, let's have a discussion. Um >> yeah. Um I'll start this off because um so back it was like probably early summer um I had a couple people talk to me who um are who you know frequent the park. their community members and they they were actually um was wondering if they could clean up the side of the bridge opposite because it was so messy and such a and and and had real issues and and I said, "Well, I'll talk to maybe it was two years ago. I don't think you were here yet, Clint, but we had interim management and everything. And um I I don't know if that exactly got done, but then they contacted me again this last year and a couple other people talked to me. And so I went over I took this picture of um that that some of you guys have seen. Um and and it was not Ricky. I know Ricky now, but it was a different group of people who were living under the bridge and they had grills and they had like stuff and there was like plastic bags and and stuff floating, you know, tied to the to stuff in the river and and I was uncomfortable with that because I feel strongly that I want to protect um, you know, the river and I want to make sure if there's stuff there in the spring flood, it's it's going to be taken downstream and it's going to be taken to the ocean. So I talked to Clint and asked him and um and they and they did they they cleaned up under the bridge. You can that particular encampment. This was before I think Ricky or Ricky may have been there but this was I think another set of people. Um and uh and that's when they took out like a huge trailer full of carpets and trash bags and you know cans you know cans of all sorts of stuff down there and and um so for me I am comfortable with somebody who's sponsored by the community who wants to be there. Um, I think that that if there's people who are living under there who are um causing significant environmental damage, I'm not comfortable with that. And um and uh I I understand um other people's um wanting to help in a way by saying let's provide them more resources like you know tra easil easily you know um easy trash recepticles. I'm also concerned about sanitation. Um when you get the certain people there's they either have to go to a business or or they have to find one of our local portaotties just to go you know use the restroom but that's not convenient. That's you know a ways away. So I'm concerned about some of the sanitation. On the other hand, I'm happy if if there's a group of people looking out for them and and they're willing to sponsor somebody under the bridge and they're looking after them and showing up and being that I'm more than happy to say, "Hey, let's let's um let's impact people's lives." But I do think we have to have um some community involvement with with people who are there. um me personally because I can see in the future other groups of people showing up that may be real harmful to to um to the bridges. That's just my >> my um history with this and seeing these things go down. Um but I also don't want to be make people illegal just because they don't have a place to live. I not I'm totally against that. >> It's a behavior issue for you in terms of It's not >> how they treat how they treat our community themselves. I want, you know, I want I want us to treat them well and I want them to treat where they're living well as much as possible. But I also understand with homelessness, you're going to have a whole you there may be other things that come along with that. And we have to have some compassion there, too. I know that there's often mental um issues and and and sometimes drug abuse and things come along with this. It's just a part of being um and other people are perfectly fine and they just want to be homeless and I worked with homeless people in Salt Lake City and I saw the whole gamut. So, um, so I understand that, too. But I do think we need to have a community group who's involved in their lives if we're going to have them living under the bridge. And let's do it both compassionately, but with some with some um, responsibility on both ends. >> Interesting. >> We have to be responsible. They have to have some responsibility in our community. I I don't know. That's how I feel about it. >> Okay. Anyone else? Andrea, >> I just want to say Matt, thank you for the gentleness and respectful approach that you have to addressing the the topic. It's not an easy topic. Um the people who approached me uh initially the concern was safety for um people walking to and from town uh using the park and um then it was brought up the environmental issue which is something to think about. We have a um environmental director who's working hard to keep our streets and streams clean. Um, and I don't think asking for the ordinance or the procedures to be more detailed. Um, is a the way of disrespecting, criminalizing, stereotyping. Um, but we have seen in area communities when an encampment begins, it can grow. And I don't it's not something that the people who have talked to me want to have here in Oro especially downtown. Um if there's a place that we could make uh available for camping um that might be something to look into. Uh I don't know if there's a use for um appropriating some of the opioid settlement funds towards either um contributing towards the services available in Bangor or towards some type of services here in Oro. Um but I do think we need to be proactive not reactive. >> Okay. >> Yep. John. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was just going to say that um I just appreciated the presentation as well as uh the folks in the community that are uh stepping up to take on a really important role um in someone's life. That sounds like they were at a a place to be able to like form those relationships and things. And um I think it's also really accurate, Matt, that folks in that position can show up in a variety of different ways. And sometimes it is not particularly attractive or um uh in a way uh that folks feel feel compelled to reach out and support. Um but I don't think that makes uh the need any any less significant. And um personally hearing the presentations uh from from staff and um you know the way things have been addressed so far, I feel pretty comfortable with where our ordinances sit as a complaint driven um uh process that is very like support first oriented. um and am comfortable with the potential cost of having to uh clean up a site or um or or you know go through that process which I know can be can be challenging because of where they're located. It can be challenging because of some of the things that are left behind. I I'm I'm not blind to the the impact of that, but I think that is the cost of uh supporting everybody who's um in our community. um and it's one that I'm personally comfortable with and I'm comfortable with the way these are written. I did have an opportunity to talk to some of the um abutters to the bridge um who uh were very aware obviously of uh the situation under the bridge uh but had um no one was thrilled that it's going on but were uh comfortable with the fact that it was being restrained to the uh town um managed I guess it's not town owned under there, but town managed uh property and not kind of spilling out in either uh an unsafe or um uh unsanitary uh situation on their uh in their spaces. So, >> um just kind of wanted to share that and say that I'm feeling pretty comfortable about where things are based on the presentations and um what we heard so far. >> Okay, anyone else on the side? Rob, >> I agree basically with everything John just said. I don't see a need as of now to alter any ordinances or policies. I've very grateful for the approach the staff has taken so far. The light touch, the compassionate touch, um, and the way the community steps up to take care of people. Um, I don't see a great enough need at this moment for us to be changing anything about the way that the town is managing these things. um you know things might change in the future but as of now I don't I think trying to in pursuit of being proactive strengthen some of these laws or make them more specific um I think that would have a a a negative effect of my sense of the compassion of this town and how we take care of people. Um, I was homeless at one point when I first came to this town. So, I I have a I guess a an intimate perspective on this. Um, and I wasn't staying under the bridge, but I guess it it hits home for me in that way. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Sarah. >> Um, yeah, I agree with John and Rob. I don't feel the need to change our ordinances. I listen to staff and I hear that what they're doing is working. I understand that there is some cost sometimes to us, but that doesn't seem exorbitant from what I've heard from talking to management and just want to reiterate um really a huge thank you to the community members who showed up today and to the all the community who's come together um to help this one particular individual and I think in general just the compassion and concern that we see in our community. I would be concerned about getting more specific in our ordinances because I think that will constrain our staff further on what they're able to do and how they're able to respond. Um, and in particular, I want to say that, you know, if someone is living unhoused, having a roof is a really big deal and the bridge provides a roof. And unless we're going to offer to folks somewhere else with a roof, I would very specifically not want to see the bridge taken away because it is difficult to live without a roof in our climate. So, thank you. >> And then I guess um on my end, I would just like when I have community members who are concerned with people under the bridge, what do we where do we send them? How do we what do we do at that point? because I that people do come to me and they do ask they they're like there's a lot of trash under there. We need it cleaned up. Can you clean it up now? Who do we go to at that point? And then also when they're concerned about somebody, do we just send them to you, Clint, or to the police? Like cuz >> feels like an 8664000 phone call. >> Oh, good. >> You can. >> I just wanted to clarify email. So, as just I think this also ties in really well with our conversation a couple weeks ago around that incredible list of resources that the town has been putting together and has been working on to >> um that when that number gets called, we've got this this resource to connect folks. >> I'm comfortable with keeping things as they are so long as there's an outlet for for and and you know, the community members who are concerned are having their concerns addressed. I um used to first of all this is these are hard conversations so thank you to everyone and we've spent a lot of time working up to this we did do the by design we had that conversation about resources first um I am really torn in a lot of ways about this I mean the the bridge is that you know we have a we're building a we have a trail network and the river I think the river is a park you know in a lot of respects um And and you know I think that that's an element that is low impact if people live if it's a low impact occup occupancy you know camping experience there and I do take the point about the the seal the the ceiling the roof over your head. Um, I think it's a very or no way to go along and get along with folks that may need some help. And I'm I'm glad to hear that there are people who are um stepping up and helping. I don't know if Ricky is the person who there was I think there was a couple that lived under the bridge. Um, yeah, Andrea. Yeah, >> I don't know the names. >> I don't think I've heard anything negative about Ricky. >> Yeah. um very respectful, very um and when I say minimal footprint, I don't mean this in a bad way. It's just those are the the words that I can think of as compared to the couple who were residing on the other side of the bridge. Um, and I think that's one of my approaches is it's not to specifically call out one person over another, but that was a large footprint left under the bridge. Y >> um and if we have an opportunity to find ways to help the unhoused offer services the way we are look into additional services that can be provided especially if we have community groups who want to step up and help. Um, I I don't think it's bad to specify types of materials and location, especially if we are also making it a practice to be compassionate, provide services, recommend services. Um, but this from my point of view, in my opinion, it's not specifying Ricky. Um, it's just in general to avoid what happened last summer from continuing to happen. >> So, I >> can I ask my question that I asked before about do we have an ordinance about littering that applies outside of parks and could we encourage people? I mean, I just I didn't get that answered before. I think it's relevant because the big concern doesn't seem to be the camping. It seems to be the littering and the trash. So, I don't I will be completely honest with you. I don't know what we have for an ordinance on littering. Um, I would just circle back to something for council to think about is if you call us and ask us to pick up somebody with litter, fundamentally that means you want us to impact them with a fine and charge them, which is um I I feel like counterintuitive to what you may be asking us to do. >> Yeah. >> So, I think Clint's right. Calling the 8664000 number is an option. But again, if you read our policy, it very clearly says in my policy that the police officers are not going to go down and clean up the garbage underneath the bridge because sometimes inserting the police department into places where we can't enforce laws. That's our job. We get into gray areas that we don't like to be in all the time. So, sorry. I don't know if that helped you or not, Sarah. >> No, it was helpful and I agree with you. I'm not sure it's the answer. I just wanted to know where we stood on it and I was interested when Matt said it sounds like the same way community members have stepped up to connect with this particular individual. Matt's had questions about community members like can we help clean up? And I don't know what the solution is, but I love the community focused approach we have now more than an ordinance-based approach. Personally, I think that we're coming to good solutions as a community and I'd like to see that keep developing for a while before I went further. But that's, you know, me individually. >> And littering is a state law that we can enforce, but again, it's a fine $100, $200, different levels. >> But >> that's not going to work in this situation, >> right? >> Okay. Just want to make sure we got that out there so people at home weren't confused that there's a law you can't litter and you can get a $100 fine for it. Um that is premised on a person having an address and the ability to pay. Um so this would be difficult in this situation. >> I Yeah. So I did you have something else? Yeah, >> potentially, I suppose. Um, so for me, I I would I'd rather not have the uncertainty of people experiencing homelessness under the bridge along the river across from Webster Park um in the middle of our downtown. But I don't have an alternative to suggest in terms of a solution that I think is compassionate in a way that so it's you know like we had a lot of privilege in this town and myself as much as anybody else and if it's not always there there are parts of life that aren't always the postcard. Um and I I wish if I had an alternative and you know if we wanted to spend a lot of time and energy on it we could come up with something but I don't have an alternative. I like what Matt had to say about if there was a sponsor some sort of um but then you know what are we Baxter State Park and you know how do we how do we manage that and um so I wish I wish there was a better answer for now and it doesn't seem to me that it rises to the level of like physical danger to or you know to people and unsemliness to the point where I think we have to take a a bold bold action at this time but it's certainly something we we ought to And I wish I had a different answer, but I I think I'm I I'd fall on the line of um okay with what we have now and appreciative of both the work that our staff does and the community does to help people that that need help. So, and with that, I guess I would say if someone has something they want to bring like a formal proposal like a member of the council, you can certainly do that. We'd have you could there ways to pursue that. But in terms of like if I'm hearing that staff and council leadership aren't going to bring a new ordinance change or anything based on this conversation. Is that a fair? But again, any one counselor can do anything. You know, you you could ask for an order calling a public hearing on an ordinance change if you wanted to. I suppose it would be outside the kind of regular steps, but you could do it. So, okay. Anybody else have anything on this before we close it off? Yeah. I really do appreciate these are hard conversations. You got your hand up or you just stretch it? >> Stretch. >> All right. It's really only 5:30, so we got you here for another hour and a half. >> All right. 6:30. Thank you so much for coming in and thanks for all you do. All right. Next up, um acknowledgement by council members. Any um let's start uh John, we'll start on your end. Yeah, I just wanted to uh wish luck to the women's basketball team on their semi-finals game, which is right now. Um not able to be there. Had to be here. That's all right. Sacrifices. Um and to uh congratulate our uh uh saw that the there's another state champion uh trophy in Orno that the middle school chess team brought home their uh state championship. So >> congratulations to them. >> Yeah, of course they did. All right, Matt. Yeah, >> I wasn't going to have anything, but I would like to just say thank you to the community members and the Church of the Universal Fellowship for um for their care um with the homeless people. And I really really appreciate um that input and and uh and the resources that um those bodies have put out for this. >> Yeah. Council Marks, >> I don't think I have anything that hasn't already been said. >> Same. person. Yeah. >> Nope. Nothing tonight. >> Councel Hardway. Councel Lway. >> Wow. >> I did it the other way this time. Yeah. Penny Hardway was like my favorite basketball player of all time. You know, >> nothing at this time. >> All right. Well, I'm of course appreciative that councelor Baker wasn't able to stay for the whole meeting. Um that makes no I'm teasing. I would say that um want a tip of the hat to an oro business. This doesn't feel inappropriate, but um got very good service at Victory Victory Lane. quick oil change um on Park Street. Took out my car one weekend, Jaime's car the next weekend and they were fantastic. So, I just wanted to new local business. They can you can take me off your text list. I'm going to keep coming. Um but I really appreciate the work they did and I'm glad they're in or now. So, it's Dennis Cross and his family's business. All right, let's move on. And I do wish Jacob was here, but um consent agenda. This is a point in the agenda where we take a single action on uh items without discussion by councils or members of the public. Any member of the public or any member of the council can pull anything off this list for a regular discussion. Anybody have anything that they want to pull off? >> Yep. We have a motion on the consent agenda. >> So moved second. >> Moved and seconded. All those in favor we don't have to do. That's unanimous. Six to zero. Thank you. >> What? It's just five. Somebody didn't vote. >> No, six. >> Six. >> Show up. >> All right. Got it. Sorry. Was only a couple minutes. >> I'm not always off. All right. Yeah, I think I'd like to Yeah. Whatever. Reconsider the closing of the staff town office training. Maybe make it two days for um Yeah. Too late. Uh we are grateful for your work. So okay, now action items. Order 2646, order approving amendments to the town of Oro personnel policy and handbook. We've had public hearings on this and I will ask for a motion. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any discussion? Any comments from the public? Any um final discussion? Yep. All those in favor? That's unanimous. Order 2647, order authorizing town manager to submit a grant application to the office of Congressman Jarn Golden with a G for community project funding of up to $1 million to be used toward the new technology and infrastructure for the 56 Main Street Police Department renovation. Get the name right if we're going to ask for a million dollars. Okay. Can I have Can I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any Nope. >> I'll make this I'll make this very quick. What it says in my memo is essentially what I'm asking for. It's just the council's approval to seek a grant that closes, you know, in less than 36 hours to try and seek grant funding for the new police department through Jared Golden's office, Congressman Jared Golden's office. And it's up to So, we've had a meeting, staff had a meeting with a representative from his office and they advised us that that would be the upper limit of the grant award, which is why I went up to a million dollars. So, anything under that up to that would be fantastic. And full disclosure, CDS funding is a short window. This is coming quick. We are looking at the other congressional offices because sometimes they prefer us to do it there as well, but so far we have no indications of which ones we could or should. If we do, I'll let you know, but it would only be ones related to any approval you give here tonight. Nothing new or different. >> Okay. Excellent. Any other clarifying questions? Any comments for the public? >> Can Can I ask a process question? >> Sure. >> You've got you, like you said, 36 hours to do this. Is is is that like a typical like are you waiting on us to >> to start writing grants on as like a matter of court? >> No, just >> it's a matter of it's a matter of process. >> Okay. >> So, we've known about this grant for a couple weeks. Yeah. >> I've been working with Megan Hess and EJ Roach and other staff members to um essentially have the framework of this ready to go. >> Great. >> Assuming that council would be in favor of this. Um, and so we just need to submit our application and maybe get a letter of support from the council chair that I'm not sure he knows yet about or not. >> I'll do it. >> Or the town manager. >> Yeah, >> we need a couple letters of support. So, I've been working on getting those. So, >> we're all set. >> All right. Any other questions or Okay. All those in favor? >> That's unanimous. Six to zero. >> Thanks, Andrea. >> Okay. Thank you, Chief Merrill. um order to reconsider order 2637 approving the FY27 capital improvement program. Could I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. And just for um there was some numerical errors in the capital improvement program that we approved last week that we caught during discussion. And you'll see in the next action item is a chance for us to um hold on. So, we're bringing it forward. We're bringing it back. So, we have to approve this order to be able to reconsider the last order with the with the changes, right? And this way, we'll have a record of the fact that the action we were reconsidering the action we took last uh with your consent. Okay. Any questions? Okay. All those in favor? Okay. All right. So, that's unanimous. Six to zero. Now, we're going to reconsider. Now we looking for um now in front of us again is order 2637 approving the FY27 capital improvement program and these numbers are as they're intended to be. Right. Okay. Do they get updated to the website as well? I know that we have got it on the website so that this will this will be the version that goes on the website and everything like that. Right. Okay. So could I have an a motion on order 2637? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any additional discussion, comments from the public? All those in favor with one breath. Um just commas, not periods. All right, that's approved unanimously. Order 2649, order authorizing town manager to execute easements for 19 College Avenue. Um can I have a motion? >> Moved and seconded. Um Mitch Stone, assistant town manager. >> Uh hi Mitch Stone, assistant town manager. Um I will kind of go through this quick, but the kind of >> Yes. Did we What do you >> We only So we have two orders in a row. One is 48 and one is 37. Did we just do them both in one vote? >> We did them twice. We did First we reconsidered. Okay. >> The two votes. I'm sure Amanda caught it if we didn't do two. So I'm fine. Thanks. >> 32, right? >> Y. So um so this is uh we we got a request from Bangor Natural Gas who owns 19 College um A that they are getting a VRAP for that property and part of that process is um they they basically have to get a declaration of environmental covenant put on the property that that governs that property and how it can be used. Um, we have an easement for a pole and guywires um to be on that property. Basically, what they're asking us for is a um that that we will follow the rules of the VRAP based on the easement. So, the easement becomes subordinate to the VRAP the the declaration. Um, it really doesn't affect us. It's not we're not you know some easements are travel or use of what other things here but this is really just about a pole and guywires being there and that's what the easements for. So we basically what we'll get put in the easement um we would we would create this document with them sign it and then that would go part of part of the um uh with the deed um that basically says that our easement is subordinate to the VRP um declaration u that that they would come up with. Um this is unique because in order for it it needs to be unanimously passed or else we have to have a public hearing for it. Um, but we felt this is very simple. I mean, it's not something that's going to affect anything that we do. Um, and typically when we have a pole or a guywire on somebody's property, we have an easement for it, but it's specifically for that. Um, and nothing else. So, >> is it a state law that requires us to have a unanimous vote and then the or is it in our ordinances? >> Uh, I tell you, we double checked it with our attorney and he's the one that confirmed the unanimous vote, but I don't have a citation. Yeah. in his notes of what law he was referring to to do this. >> Well, it's not in the Ten Commandments, right? It's not in the Declaration of Independence, but it's got to be >> Yes. >> All right. Sorry. I don't mean I I should ask that beforehand, so I apolog I mean I saw >> Yeah. >> confused by it still. >> Yeah. >> What is a VRAP exactly? >> I don't know. What's >> What is the VRAP exactly? Sorry. >> So, uh VRAP is is a voluntary response action program. Basically, um people work with with D. So, let's take 98 Ponobscot Street, the old town uh garage. Um we work with them because of the type of use of that property, specifically fixing cars, oil, those types of things. Um they will go through and test the test the um the ground to figure out what kind of remediation has to happen for what activity you have on the property. So like if you wanted if you wanted to just keep it as a uh as a um garage then the mediation is is is pretty simple. If you wanted to put housing on that then it becomes basically you then have to um take different steps to make it uh livable and and okay for that. So the they work with D. come up with this um action step that says this is what we can or can't do or this is what you would need to do to do this activity. Um and basically the easements on that have to follow that suggestion. That makes sense. >> And just to clarify, if there is a change of use, they have to come to the town and notify us what the change is. There's no change proposed at this point. Nothing of that nature. Yep. BRAP doesn't necessarily say there's a what level of issues there are, but because of the use they've identified, there could be. Yep. And am I right in the documents you attached that there was a right passed on to the town by previous owners of this which already said something about putting a pole up? That's what I'm confused by this other document here. >> I don't know who put the poll, but I mean right now's the owner and Bangor Gas owned it just a year and a half ago. So there's been a change of ownership. So >> the existing easement that we were sent a copy of says something about an um private owners giving an easement to the town of Orino for a poll. So there was an easement given to us for such a poll and now we're turning it over to the utility company and saying we have this ement and you can now have it or what? >> We're not giving up the easement. >> Okay. >> So the easement will exist. It is just making it so that the easement is subordinate to we can't we can't supersede what um D has decided with the the VRAP. Okay. So so it just it just allows us to follow their rules is basically what I'm saying. >> Okay. Does anybody have any other I got a curveball for I had my own in addition to my curveball. So what's the what's the latest on the um people ask us from time to time what's going on there. Is there any any there there yet in terms of what they're going to do with the the former filling service station property. >> So the the plans are still the same there um from what they went to the planning board about. Nothing has changed there. They're still just waiting for superior court to make a decision. I I do know that they have met um with the judge and we're they're awaiting a decision on how that moves forward. So, and everyone is surprised how long it's taking. I don't know if there's any other way to >> me especially since I've been here almost two years and it started well before I got here. We haven't even gone anywhere in the two years I've almost been here. So, >> yes, have had a couple of hearings >> and we've asked they did have their hearings. Yes, that's about it. >> I mean, do they have some I mean, they're not going to leave it looking like the way it looks now, right? I mean, they're going to either eventually have to tear that building down or do something to it. >> So, in the original uh original plan, they had suggested they were going to leave the building up, but they were going to work with it. It wasn't like they were going to leave it as it is. Um, obviously, the longer it sat there, the worse condition it's coming in. So, I think they're just waiting to wrap this all up and then they're going to move forward with um basically carrying out the plan, the site plan that they have. >> Okay. And this easement we're voting on has no impact on that at all. >> No. Okay, great. Thanks. Um, anybody have any other questions? Yep. >> No. Yes, >> I do. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. >> And it's probably not even anything that we need to worry about. But item three, uh, number three, item C talks about maintenance of cover systems and groundwater. Is that anything that the town has to maintain or the property owner? >> No. So all the easement that we have is for this the pole and the guy wires. We're responsible for any maintenance on that. But anything else is all on the Yeah. >> Okay. Um All right. All those in favor of subordinating ourselves to the VR. Yeah. We're sufficially subordinated by a vote of six to zero. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah, for building my All right. That concludes our action items. Now, we're on to um council committee reports. Uh community development committee. >> Sure. We are still working um well what we hope to do at the next meeting is to um finalize what we're going to say about the route 2 safety data and how we've compiled the list and we'll come back with recommendations to um of what we think need to come back to the council and then they can either vote on it or we can give information and then we'll have some direction to the town as to what to do with this data next. Is there anything you guys want to add? Nope. Okay, >> sounds good. Finance and operations. >> I'll give a quick one. They're working on getting the audit and presented to them on the 23rd. That will mean it'll be queuing up for an agenda probably 1 of April for the council. That's all getting done. That's been the priority. That is changing some of the timelines on on reporting um better planning in the future on how we handle the audit when it comes in because it backlogs all the other work. >> Okay. Uh Nissip, >> nothing at this time. >> Ordinance review committee. >> Nothing since the meeting you all had last week. >> Yep. >> DIB. >> Yes. Um they are working on a number of things. I'm just going to highlight a few. Welcome to Orino um website. They're they want to develop a um anformational um part that talks about access including bus schedule and information about the Orno thrift store. You know, um things that will hopefully allow people to just come and and um be integrated into the community with all of its resources. I know that the town already has um has that and so they're looking over that and trying to assess what needs to be added to it or or not. And so I think that's one of the things they're doing. Also, one of the members is um going to be starting a Ramadan um book club and we can find out more information about that soon. >> Okay. Um council chair update. I'll start with uh I got two items that um I want to share. We get an outreach um from and I'm sorry I'm still getting used to the way the emails um stack. It's not Yeah, it's different. They stack differently than what I'm used to. Um a resident on um Union Street reached out to this town and copied me on it about the condition of the road. Um it's the frost heave. It's in tough shape. Um, it was fine when I was walking my dog on it and then I took my car down on it and I can certainly see why it's a challenge and I know the town's been responsive. Um, so it was Allan, is it Alan Neetto? I'm sorry. Um, reached out and got a very I thought um, professional response back from the town, but I think there's also an interest in thinking about what else could be done on the on the road. It's Union Street is um in the capital improvement plan we just approved um up for rework in 2028 I think and Mr. Netto would like to see it addressed faster than that. And I think there's probably some things that we could do and look at um to address some of the concerns, but there are some pretty significant little holes in the ground. And they had a lot of recent houses that have gone in as part of a de I don't know if it's all one development on that side of the on the side away from the river on Union Street, but there are several new houses there and a spectacular house right on the that house right on the corner where the um railroad track is right next to OBC is beautiful. Um, not that the other houses aren't nice too, but I just was remarkable how nice this one is. Um, and how fast it went in. So, anyway, that was that was a conversation and I don't think it was copied to everybody, but the we'll be working to on the follow-up for that. Um, and Mr. Netto wasn't able to come in today. Second piece I' I'd share um is that we have um we had the good neighbor meeting today and um we had a really good discussion and some ideas brought in from from the student participants in the good neighbor committee and we're going to look at um a rebate initiative if student we're going to bring so what for you from the council's perspective and the community's perspective we'll come back with um we had we have a kind of consensus agreement on some changes to the ordinance to the uh disorderly activity ordinance and we'll bring those into next week's two weeks from now. We'll bring those in for probably a presentation and a call for a public hearing. So, and we'll have a public hearing on those at our Do you remember what the dates were going to be? It's going to be two weeks. Yep. It's going to be well two weeks from now we'll call we'll ask the council to call the public hearing for the ordinance changes and then three weeks after that because I think that's the way the schedule's out. We'll have the public meeting. We'll have two weeks after that we'll have the public meeting and then three weeks after that we'll have an opportunity to act. So I think it's the May 4th meeting of the council would be the the opportunity we'd have to act if if we so choose to. But um we'll come in and give you a briefing on it next at our next meeting along with an agenda item to call the public hearing. John, did you have anything? I thought it was good. We're going to keep the the rebate piece and we're gonna Well, there's a lot to it, but okay. I appreciate all the work that went into that. So, that's what I have. Um, and the town manager report. >> Thank you. Um, so a few items on there, a couple add-ons, but uh the P police safety information sheet, it's a resource I've shared. The council all has a copy, I believe, in front of them here this evening that was provided to you. I also had emailed it. Um, this will be made available. Um, at some point it's probably going to find a home on the website. It's not something we're using for social media, but it will be something placed. It's obviously in the agendas and packets, but I just want to make the community aware. Um, I wouldn't say we're the only ones that have done this that I've seen, but I have was not able to find any of the communities you would expect to have a staff left le commentary like this. Seen them through some universities, some businesses, but this was kind of unique for us. It's a great resource, some great information. Um, and again for the public that's asking, it's a it's an information sheet for residents to understand how the police department works in many occasions when dealing with uh other federal agencies that are here in our community and working with whether it's uh documented or undocumented immigrants, citizens, what have you. Um, so it's a great resource and just wanted to make sure we made knorib committee at the end. We had some extra time. This is the second draft and I appreciate the council giving the staff more time and that allowed us to bring them in and get a lot of great feedback and conversation. So, this is a enhanced and improved version of the one you saw last time. The second uh just kind of flagging an issue. We have a tanual town annual report that we do every year. Um we've been tasked in our goals this year to have a council's goals report that's being worked on somehow with the council. And then we also have our comp plan tracker that we're also tracking progress on how we're doing with our comprehensive plan. I began some conversations with Cody and I think there's going to need a need for some further conversation at some point because these don't feel like they're not working collectively. How are we going to do this? How do we time them? There's so much information, so many reports. We don't want to be the town that puts out too many reports and no one knows which one's the most important to read. So, I'm just flagging it. something I've identified, staff's talked about, and we'll work on some more. May ask a few of you one-on-one that have some particular insights on it. But if any of you have any thoughts on this particular topic, just email me as always, and I'll try to incorporate those. Just wanted to flag that as a point for all of you. Um C is skipped because we put it on the agenda. I thought we were going to wait, but there was a timeline, so we hurried to put it on tonight's agenda. Um margin street dra drainage grant. This is your I need to make you aware, but we are looking at a DOT grant that would actually change our cost share. We have some money in reserves to fix Margin Street drainage, but now we're looking at a DOT grant that would pay the majority. So, that would free up reserves for other projects and other places. Um, but we'll keep you posted. It's going in and they're working on it now. Um, I'm going to skip E for just a second. F is spirit week. This is, uh, Orno's birthday, Thursday officially. Uh, the day they were we were founded. Um, so this week staff's doing some spirit related items. I'm in a monochromatic black today to show my support and spirit as are some other staff members. Um, I will say police and fire did particularly well today with the monochromatic look. I want to thank them all for their efforts in those regards. Um, sorry, little fun. Uh, I'm going to keep a budget survey. We did the first round. Got some nice input. We're going to direct it more for a follow-up question or questions um to see what and maybe how you've influenced me tonight. There might be a better question out of what you shared. I'll work with the team on that. But we did do a short survey. Got some average response, but it was kind of social media based and I think it was early in the season, but we wanted to try early to see what we got. And you know, it was some great broad strokes to what we could do as a community. >> When you say social media style, do you mean like my taxes are too high or stuff like that? >> Some of that. Some of that. Yeah. three words and an exclamation mark and maybe a frowny face. Yep, I got it. >> Um, >> interpret those as you will. >> The, uh, we are getting pothole comments. These are not on there, but we are getting more and more comments about damage and potholes. Um, it is governed by state law for state roads, local requirement under state law that we have to follow is that we have to know about it. So, if we didn't know about it, we have 24 hours to correct. So, any damage you do, we are following up with those with residents on it. It's not always the happiest moment with them, but we do deal with them case by case. Uh, Microsoft conversion happened last week. I want to thank all staff. I could name everybody, but they're still dealing with it. Um, as much as I've talked about this for over a year, we knew it would have its bumps, and it did, and it still is. Um, council, you've seen some of those as well as we're getting to how to get logged in, we're working on them. It was a a good step. There's a lot of wins on the other side. We're just in that transition period. Work with us. Please keep us posted. Ito.org is a great way to send a support email or better yet just email our IT director Mitch Stone. >> So will the Google still be like archive for the stuff that we have? Are we going >> We are privately archiving it for staff use only and so that all the community documents would always live and reside forever but no one's going to be able to access it. It's not going to be public shared. It's going all been moved 100% is in Microsoft now in a SharePoint and it is completely available for people to use on SharePoint. It is there. >> So everything's been moved. So like the town manager folder I keep with the the very lovely letter we wrote wrote you last year at the end of your performance >> in the SharePoint. >> It's in the SharePoint. Okay. >> Yep. So >> I have it on my wall. >> I like the plug. Thank you. That's great. >> You did a good job. It was a nice letter. It was easy to write. >> And then so two more items. One HD HRDQ communication style staff. A lot of staff have done this. Uh I wrote it that way. You can Google it. Something we do with Lori Bousard. We are looking at other ways to integrate that and incorporate that in. Um maybe something I want to talk to council leadership on. I think there's a way we could share this our styles and maybe learn more about your styles and improve how we work as a community and as a staff. So just something I want to throw out there, make sure you're aware of, but Google it if you want, learn a little bit more about it. Uh you can be I always get these wrong. You can be a compassionate communication style, a considerate communication style, direct, um, spirited, or strategic. Thank you. Yes, I had to get the one. Systematic. Yeah, systematic, which is strategic. Um, I'm spirited, just if you wanted to know. Uh, I'm learning more and more just how much so every day. So, and then the last one, next week I am not in the office. I will be on vacation. So, just wanted to remind you of that. I've let the council leadership know, shared it on their calendars, but if you need me, I won't be here. >> So, um, so speaking of your excellent Are you done? >> I am 100% finished. Did it in less than 10 minutes. >> That was great. Speaking of your excellent, um, evaluation letter last year, just so Sarah and I have worked out dates with Clint on the, uh, on the work we'll do. So, um you those of you on the council, I guess everyone but John, um you'll get an email from me on April 6 or earlier, um asking you to come prepared to talk about the strengths and opportunities with the um and I'll send you this in the email, but April 6, we're going to start the our annual evaluation process u with the town manager, which is just a really good opportunity for us to of identify um identify some things and create a record and we feel strongly that we need to do that on a regular basis and it's part of the contract. So that'll start uh early next month and we'll spend some time on it through April. That's okay. I guess I'm still chairing this meeting. Um public petitions, we don't have any future agenda items and council requests for supporting items. Do we have anything? >> Anderson and O staff is very busy with budget, but when that's over, September 12th is going to approach very quickly. Is there any update or can we have an update on where you are with festival day and what council can be doing to help? And also uh April 12th is the next potluck supper at the Keith Anderson Community Building be 4:30 to 6:30. Uh Clint will be there to answer questions on budget festival various topics. Um if there are any other committees or any other um department heads that want to come and and speak about different volunteer opportunities, I'd like to open that up to all of you. Um and then um May 12th, uh or not May 12th, the first potluck, the first Sunday in May will be the potluck that the library will be joining us. and I'm still working on that theme. But if there are any stories about Orino or neighbors here in Orino um that anybody would be willing to share, um I'd love to uh invite you to do that as well. >> Oh, I've got some good ones. Some people on Sunset Skip. I live on Page Place, but if that's what you're talking about. Yeah. Lovely people on Sunset, but that's not where I live. Um, okay. Any other future agenda items? Items of concern. That's the case. We're going to go into executive session. We're not going to have anything coming out of executive session. I always look at Mitch and he always shakes his head or nods. He's This is a shake. >> If I just make with the executive sessions, we do need to move into the other room. There's a lot of information. We need a little time. So, I'd like us to be sitting at the table in there and Okay. >> working on. >> Sure. Yep. >> So, we'll go um ask to move first for a motion to move an executive session pursuant to 1 MRSR A 40560 regarding labor negotiations. >> So, moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? Sheam.