foreign thank you oh there he is he's probably was down working in Hope is still on Zone come on up here so council member Thorson left so council member Wong is still online and she's still online okay all right turn it over to what's the manager frandel hey come here next topic up is the employee health insurance update uh additional information requested from the council back on November 1st 2022 and Dan has that information for us uh Finance director Mr winick welcome Dan mayor council members thank you very much now we're going to keep it limited so I am very I am very limited today okay all right okay no first of all I want to start this uh this item out and I mean I'm going to give you an update uh of some information that you had requested which we should have had at the last uh Workshop but the first thing that I want to say is that I want to apologize to the city council that I brought this item forward because it puts you in a tough spot um and I and I absolutely realized that but on the flip side There's an opportunity here and we heard from the the police chief talking about health insurance and here's an opportunity which I view as a low-cost opportunity to show the support of city council not only for the police force but keep the equity amongst all of our employees across I believe there's five unions and so I did go out and I sent an email to all the cities in Ramsey County and asking them for information regarding their health insurance so the questions that I asked is first single family or if they offered other types of insurances what was the employee paying what was the City's concert contribution and then obviously you can come up with with the total premium was at the time that I published this I had I think six cities had responded I've now received a couple of other ones that have responded back to me the interesting component to it we can draw some conclusions with the backup that has been provided that one our city is contributing on the high side so of those who responded and when I talk about contribution attack about the contribution to um both uh whether it's uh the health insurance whether it's a single or a family the city's contribution towards the premium itself and then the HSA dollars that the city is contributing to employees and so when I look at that on an average basis the average came to about a little over 1600 and the cities contributing now because of this 50 percent increase on the peep Insurance to you know about 1 750 so I agree the city is contributing more than the average share but there's a different way of looking at this and the other the way to look at this is what is the impact to our employees and that's kind of the key component to it because that's what really matters when it comes down to the attraction and the retention of employees and what makes this city extraordinary is the city council and all of the staff members that are here and again I started here 16 months ago and I'll say it 16 months later I have never met an organization that is so supported by its leadership and in addition I've never seen the dedication of the professionalism and the level of customer service that is done here in this city and so to maintain that if we were to look at it from a cus the cost from an employee's perspective the costs for single coverage the majority of cities that responded basically cover all cost for single coverage so we don't have that we have this we have employees pay 10 percent so the average that came out was actually 11.72 cents is what it employs cost not including the the city of North St Paul the other six um we are at 72.69 so there's a delt of approximately 61 dollars if we look at the family coverage again the cost for our employee is higher than the average the average is approximately 329 dollars or 330 dollars rounding it and our employees pay approximately 387 dollars again they're paying approximately 57 higher than the average the average meaning those that's a kind of our competition when it comes into the the public sector for employees so what I did was I I looked at it and said okay we have 25 single that have single coverage 22 employees that have family coverage if I were to say let's at least meet the average it would come to an additional contribution to the city of approximately thirty three thousand dollars if you remember that scale that I had given out last time approximately every fifty two hundred dollars reduced the um if the city were to contribute an additional fifty two hundred dollars it would reduce approximately five percent or it would reduce five percent for the employees cost so this thirty three thousand dollars would bring it at at the end of it that the that the city would contribute an additional 33 000 and it would reduce the increase in uh for the employee costs from the 50 percent to the 20 percent and if you remember I gave ranges going from from the 50 all the way to 15 percent we had after the last Workshop we had another Insurance committee I had shared the information that I had publicly posted for City Council and um part of the first part of the meeting was to have them look at the options that were given to uh to us from Gallagher for different Insurance options and unanimously the insurance committee voted to stay with peep even though it's a 50 percent because if you can remember there was a couple of other lower options but then there were the deductibles were considerably higher so they decided to stay with peep um before I had presented the handout that had that five percent in 50 percent I kind of asked the group what they had thought about um everything they had asked what had transpired last night I said we had some really tough questions um and that there was a really good question that the city council wanted additional information and I said to them and I totally agree that we need to give them that additional information which is being presented tonight um and um you know they were I had one and it's a representative of our our Police Department was very concerned that that 50 percent increase to the employees would create the possibility of losing up to four more additional police officers I was kind of stunned by the comment um and so I'm sharing the information um and um then we kind of went around and kind of asked others and again I think I had told you uh last Workshop that we had an employee who recently started um and part of the reason why that individual started here was because of the benefits and then all of a sudden within three months of employment you know insurance is going to go up their premium is going to go up 50 percent so they kind of you know re-talked about that component to it and I said well I'm gonna you know I had sent out I at that point in time I had it I think I'd only received one or two cities so I didn't share any of that information but told them that it sent out a request for the city from cities in the Ramsey County to provide insurance information so I could get that information to city council I also want to share a personal experience that I have had in in the hiring process I was hiring for a a manager's position the individual is actually a consultant that we had used um and how our contract was with that that company and for that individual was totally transparent so I could see what they paid them paid that individual for per hour I could see what they paid for insurance and all and all that type of stuff didn't know what that employee's cost was but I could see what we were paying for very transparent contract and made the decision that we wanted to hire this person on or at least try to hire this person on as a permanent employee so we ran the process I went through the hiring and this person indeed was the top candidate so it came to negotiating the salary for the individual and it was kind of interesting I knew what they were making so I offered them a couple of steps higher than where they were at and then I told them all the positive pieces about well what a great health insurance program we have very low deductible going through that hey you're now going to be joining into the pera pension they didn't have a pension plan wow look at all these positives I said so I wrote it all up went through it with them face to face handed it over to him he said I can't accept it and I thought what do you mean you can't accept it the reason why they couldn't accept it is because the insurance that they were getting both of those two positive pieces that I thought the insurance that they were receiving from their company they had the option to go to a much higher deductible which resulted in lower premiums for them to pay and I kind of thought okay and I knew this individual had young children I thought wow for me I'm a very conservative person I wouldn't have taken that risk I said okay well but how about the pension that you're getting again I don't have an option to that pension I have to contribute and so at the end of the day what they were concerned about and this came out is I need to take home the same amount of money that I have in my current job into the future even though there were to me better benefits and so I am recommending that for a small cost and I look at it as a small cost compared to I think the benefit and the Goodwill that it gives to our existing customers and it helps us attract and retain employees that the city seriously considers contributing additional amount for the 2023 year and only the 2023 year and also that this that the city council directs staff to work with that insurance committee and also with Gallagher Insurance to come up with other options to lower the cost not only for our employees but for the city and I I think we have to look at it from the standpoint of where the employees were before this point in time and both the city and the employees have faced the same thing a ridiculously high increase of 50 percent so with that I'll I'll answer any questions and I know this is a tough decision but you know I I heard you know what the police chief said today um I don't I kind of like the comment that councilmember Thorson had said about you know having multiple unions you start to set one Union different than the other it's sometimes backfires on you and or you end up having those same costs so to me I'm looking at this as being something that's Equitable across for all of our employees questions uh just coming to mind you know again it goes back to my comments at the last meeting was you know are we paying our employees the way we should be and you know are they getting uh is their health package a good deal and it sounds like it is a good deal according based on comparables to other cities our the city's contribution to the premium yes from the employees cost perspective no we're below the average of the responding cities employees cost is also a function of income so if it's a percentage of income is what they're paying their contribution dollars that they're paying would be higher based on income I'm sorry I'm sorry mayor I stepped in nope nope please go ahead nope no go ahead if I heard you correctly the percentage contribution made by the city is greater than that of the other cities as a percentage of of pay no not a not of pay it paid in paid in um in in wasn't included in the survey component to it it was just asked the questions of what was the cost for the employee for you know health insurance and what was the city's contribution um for that that goes back to we have three year binding contracts and since 10 and 20 percent and again this is a challenging conversation I haven't made any decisions because what you're asking of us impacts several people that are currently in this room so it makes it real tough to have an open open dialogue but that's where we are right we pay at the city's contract with the unions is it 90 for singles and 80 percent for married with family correct did you get those not did you get percentage numbers back from the communities that you surveyed I did not get percentages from that so from from there is not a fair analogy in my opinion because income is based off of that so do you know is our is the salaries paid for the city greater than that or less than that of the other cities that you that you surveyed so so first first of all to answer the question about percentages if you look on the data you're going to see in the single coverage um that you know I I did put percentages there um I calculated them because it's pretty easy if you've got what the city's contribution the cost you can come up with what the percentage so again on Singles you're going to see um you know uh the average percentage of City contribution for single was 98.27 percent were at 90. okay um so clearly if our 90 is much you know is lower than that um we're very comparable and actually a little bit higher on the family the overall percentage was 76.69 were at 80. so that you know I mean that's a you can do the calculation which I did put it on the spreadsheet for that so I didn't really feel I needed to ask them that question because it's a mathematical function so we're in the ballpark with white houses out there from a percentage standpoint um more on the family and not on the single correct so go ahead go ahead mayor I've stepped in Oh no just I'll step back before we cover off the rest of my suggestions I apologize I interrupted you no uh so I'm just thinking if we did not have this increase uh or I should say it if we were paying what we should have been paying last year Market wise it sounded like our uh uh the rate that we're paying for the insurance was way below what Market was correct that's what that's what Gallagher had to do well if we were actually paying market last year we wouldn't be having this discussion absolutely and that's really the reason for the discussion the discussion is because it's a 50 increase correct yeah absolutely but we were getting a good deal yes a very good deal I believe so yes no yeah and it really it really is what I you know I I struggle with is we're getting a great deal our employees were getting their net pay was more because their insurance we're paying less in what the insurance that 90 the 80 percent if they were at Market a year ago what we should have been paying again we wouldn't be having this this discussion because that's our policy is 90 right I I and I don't just I don't disagree with that so and part of my recommendation that I said is that for 2023 and only for 2023 and here's the reason to be able to try to ratchet it up instead of just boom it's a 50 increase to the employee cost again I you know and we're talking what 20 what do we say 21 24 I believe for single and 124 126 for family on a monthly basis yeah I think that was about it right I thought I just looked at those are my notes from yeah I think they moved around but no I think you're absolutely right yeah and I still believe the police department you know we need to figure that out because that is where we're having you know you just you mentioned that we may lose four more police officers if we don't do this that's a comment that came I'm just sharing the information that came that's that's what I that's what I'm hearing and that's all I had heard and that's why I'm not sure you know from what I heard from the workshop with uh the chief is we do have a problem there we need to figure that out I don't know about the rest of the the city you know if they're experience the same burnout that the police department is having but I'm I'm more concerned about our Police Department I hate to say that I'm not I shouldn't say I'm more concerned but I think the need is more at the police department right now in regards to retention and trying to figure out how do we keep how do we keep those those employees that's my only and to agree with that your honor um you know it is hits us at a bad spot I mean you can't prevent it and you know here we are making this decision um and it's money I wish all the i in a Wishful world that all the employees will just be healthy and there'll be no you know complaints and whatever but um or you know illnesses but you know that's in a perfect world but I tend to agree with the mayor on this one I don't think we're you know out of bounds you know the 50 is an ouch but it is what it is and um that's all I have to say uh Lisa Wong um I can understand that there is a financial concern um and I also can see the value as well not to say that the value in the sense that we are still coming out of a pandemic um and I think if it's just for one year could this be something that we explore in terms of retention or creating a really wonderful workplace [Music] just food for thought I mean it's just one year you know and that's really how I'm looking at it too I mean there's a lot of work to be done um you know and again I apologize I know this is a tough to bring up um but um again like I said before I think as the finance director for the city of North St Paul I think I play part of it looking at it from an organizational standpoint and and looking at the impacts that it has on our employees as well as the financial condition in in situation for the city of North St Paul and the impact that it has on the residents and so it's a tough it's tough Balancing Act many times I just don't want to see some unintended consequences happening in losing some employees um and uh mayor I absolutely agree I think right now our biggest Focus really is on the the police department but I don't want to create an inequitable situation in which we have amongst our employees I don't want to see where we start to create um you know any type of friction this city works and runs very well the the communication is excellent across all departments it is really a team team environment and I don't want to see that being jeopardized so again part of bringing this forward is is for awareness and to me I I've been fortunate in this position because I know the city council um allows having open dialogues and and um and fair and and you're it's a tough decision for you um to make and any other information that you need would be you know greatly appreciated that you know I can go out and find but again I look at it as it's a one-year thing it's it really comes because there's a 50 percent increase um and I think if we can try to ease that pain a little bit I think it goes a long way it really shows support from city council to all the employees um we had a year to figure this out I do not intend for the city from my other side of my role that the city is going to pay their contributions being as high as it is because it is above the average but for a one-year term my I can agree with it because I believe that there's great benefit but that's my opinion and I and I still look at you know the market what is the market doing you know we were getting a good deal we're getting a great deal we're 50 off you know if there's a 50 increase uh we're getting a good deal last year if we didn't have that great deal we wouldn't be having this I absolutely I absolutely agree with you but but then that even that gives that much more of an indication of why I brought this forward because because of that being a good deal and not and now hitting Market it's created a 50 percent increase for the employees If This Were a 20 increase of 15 increase I wouldn't have brought this forward um it's because it's 50. I think 50 increase is a substantial increase it hit the city hard um so that that's the reason why I was brought forward but that market situation is what created that 50 and on the flip side when you when you look at and say okay well the employees you know I had had a better deal in the past so did the city um and it's kind of hard for um to explain to an employee that hey you had a great deal and you should have saved up some of that money because now you're going to spend more um they kind of look at it from where they they're at today from you know full economic perspective but I mean if that's the will of the city council I'm I'm not going to have an argument with that councilmember Cole um yeah I guess I do have a couple more comments or questions Dan um and I won't interrupt you no I interrupted you so my uh you had started um your comments out tonight by saying this is a wonderful way for the council to show their support for staff um and while I I hear you loud and clear I certainly hope that this is not a litmus test for what staff views is Council support I don't believe so when I left the uh the uh and and Jenny was there um I my last comments were I put the city council and that's why I apologize I put the city council in a very bad position it has no reflection on their support for the employees and matter of fact I had one of the members there echoed that right after I got done saying that part to it and I said if it were me being thrown this to me number one I got a contract in place that talks about 90 to 80 percent I could have ended the conversation right then and there um so the answer to that is I absolutely do not believe that in any way shape or form if my comment there was in bad choice of words I apologize for that but that was not the intent I was looking at it more from the standpoint that because this committee has been very vocal on trying to get their impact of their cost lower that it's it's an opportunity plain and simple and thank you for recognizing the the fact I think this council is very open and I think dialogue is is fantastic I do um the the piece that as I sit here and I look at is yes it's a 50 increase to staff um and we talked about what the the actual dollar implications look like um the the number I'm recalling from um the last Workshop we had was um by helping offset this I think it was a thirty seven thousand dollar expense to the city and I I is is that number am I close if it would have gone down to the 15 yeah it would have been an additional 37 000 yes correct and I just I look at that as we also have we also represent all the residents absolutely well as well as staff absolutely um and we haven't signed up we haven't we haven't finalized budget for next year um in taking up 37 000 into what it would cost that's about a point seven point eight percent increase in the levy that we're looking to have passed I mean so there's a there's even if it's for one year as a direct correlation on to the residents um that's that's the piece I keep weighing back and forth then I completely hear you um that it's one year in what it what it truly does mean to staff um but I've also got to put on the other shoes and and think of the rest of the residents and how they how they would feel because their their insurance probably went up their prop their um property on their houses are going to go up because of the hail storm that was had that had nothing to do with them um so again I gotta I've got to weigh both sides I think I'm done now uh so I don't think we need any more information unless you think we there's more information out there that you can get that would no I I don't I think the city council has spoke very clear and and um you know um I think that's the end of of the discussion on that topic so do we bring it up I mean it's been brought up we want to I'm assuming I'm as of the assumption that we want a type of a vote well we can't vote today no no I recognize that well we're we're probably going to give staff you know Brian uh Direction in regards to do you want to bring this up to the council we're going to have that same discussion then and we would vote on it on uh you know whether or not you know maybe there is increment in there that we could maybe it's not the 50 maybe it's not the you're looking for what 15 well you don't know we don't know what that range is based upon the averages of what the other cities responded it would be it would be at the 20. the 20 so I don't know is the council comfortable with a zero to 20 percent you know increments in there five percent increments so whatever the 20 or is it zero or 20 percent well it would go from if it's not 20 would it be 25 30 35 45 50 it would go legal the low end would be the 20. action here sound like an auctioneer uh what do you what do you feel future Council what do you feel now I'm just kidding I mean we're not being asked to no or give do anything tonight so no but we we need to give direction because we only got two meetings left or only the one meeting because we would have to approve it at the next meeting correct as part of the budget I mean I would say bring a bring a proposal together and I'll weigh my opinion at the time the proposal is brought let's let's do this let's have Dan and Brian work on something knowing how we feel oh that's tough well it to be honest with you it puts it in your court sure you know you know how we how we feel you know it might not be the zero but maybe there's something a little less but I still think we need to really look at the police department because that is really affecting our uh the higheries over on that side in my opinion yeah and then I think it would be kind of interesting just to you know survey specifically for police officers to see what cities are doing it you know just for the police officers too and get a little bit more data on on that I think having that committee what I brought up at the I think that's great yeah I think that's it was a great suggestion yeah kind of good all right be that beat that up pretty good so we got one more item and that's the uh the fee schedule and I'll turn over to uh Finance director Dan Winnick I actually want to pull it up so we can go through the different changes here um so uh mayor council members this is uh this part of the workshop is on the 2023 Municipal fee schedule and utility rate schedule the city council establishes a fee and rate schedule for the various permits license and services provided by the city of North St Paul annually City staff reviews the city fees and charges for services and makes recommendations for adjustments as necessary it is proposed to adopt the fee schedule and utility rate schedule with increases at the December 6 2022 city council meeting this is for discussion to kind of go through and let me try to get this uh you know what I wanted uh councilmember Wong if I can go back real quick carry is there a possibility I can get her opinion I think so much oh well you sound terrible hope you're feeling better I don't know if you heard the discussion uh Lisa but uh we're looking at bringing it back to Brian and have Brian and Dan kind of work out a little plan in regards to our feedback thank you are you there can you repeat that so we're bringing it back back to Brian and Dan uh the feedback that we had to uh Dan was still concerning to him in regards to the uh the 20 percent yeah are you okay with that um yeah I'm go back to sleep [Laughter] no don't go back thank you thank you Lisa she usually has some very good comments and catches things on the municipal fiance fee schedule and utility rates so this document um is tracking all of the changes from the 22 Municipal fee and I'll kind of walk through that the first couple of pages really um there aren't any changes we've added uh body art Enterprise um into the massage Enterprise category um animal fees nothing has changed on that page um there's been the Community Development section made some changes in some cleaning up on the electrical permit component they had conversations with the current inspector and modified some of the the rates that you will see here in the electric permit um and then changed the whole commercial electric fee schedule to kind of spell it out a little bit more for residents so they're fully aware of what those fees should be and how they're calculated I do believe the rest of the building permits there were no other changes on billing permitting kind of components to it there is a change here on page five or page 18 of 42 of the documents with page five of this document and I'll use what this document number is the sewer hookup and the water hookup are being changed and changed significantly both were at 150 the sewer hookup is moving to 550 and the water hookup is moving to 800 that's a suggestion that came from our public works department based upon a surveying of other cities and taking the low end of what those cities are charging for sewer and water hookup again you're on page six you'll see some cleanup and you get on page seven the item that was on the very bottom um the cell tower permit has been moved to page 17 which in uh fits better underneath the miscellaneous fees again a cleanup item and nothing was added on page eight there's two items that have been dropped they were duplicate Permit card fees and they can be printed from the website so there's no need to have a fee associated with those um and then on page 11 is is where um the body art Enterprises were added um to the section 113.02 for massage Enterprise and then clarification um that both the new and the renewal are not per employee they're per Enterprise and then the insurance required workers compensation was added to that section for the minimum liability coverage again the insurance was added on page 12 and then note that's on the bottom there too on brings us next changes on page 13 for other electric charges um I believe it started back at about the big somewhere close to the beginning of of uh the pandemic in 2020 uh the city suspended um reconnection charges um late payments and looking at bringing those back in the first of the year so we looked at some of those charges and what was the reconnection charge was at fifty dollars we're reducing it to 25 we did a survey of a number of cities around and and trying to get some information regarding some of these costs so you know I think at 50 was more when it actually uh somebody from the electrical department actually had to go out to reconnect now it's all done electronically so we reduced the cost for that um there is at the very end there is um for the late payment charge I put a note I did not see it when I was going through this document it'll end up going into this section the next is the utility uh late payment charge it's been 10 of the balance due um we're making the recommendation that that gets reduced to five percent of the balance due that's more in line with what we found from other cities thank you and I believe that brings the next changes on page 17 where that one item that I showed on page seven got moved underneath the miscellaneous fees the cell tower permit fee of 12.50 that isn't a new fee that just was moved kind of a cleanup item foreign ful citizen who goes through our Workshop items and sent me an email wanted some questions of clarification and so the item of Open Air Park shelters um what I have gathered is that the intention of changing this from a per day to a half a day was from the park commission and trying to come up with a lower cost option for residents so it was a split having AM and PM um there really needs to be a definition of what is am and what is PM and so there will be added into those sections that am will be defined as 7 A.M to 2 p.m and and the PM will be defined as 3 P.M to 11 p.m there also has to be a note that there will be no cleanup provided by the city between the am and the PM because that would require public work staff to come in and do that they do it in the morning even on the weekends but would not be able to do that in the afternoon does that come from a recommendation from the park and rec yes according to staff yeah a way to lower fees and increase usage and then the other part to it is that those fees are all cut in half and they were not reflected here on this document so that needs to be changed so the 50 would be 25 this 65 would be 32 and a half and the deposit would be down to 25. so those changes need to to happen in in that and I believe the removal of housing out of that section 2 needs to to occur from one of our residents who talked because they it really that the open shelter really is I think is included as part of the whole uh perk building rental this is my understanding that was my understanding from conversation with other staff um so that still needs a little bit of clarification on to that but those other changes will end up being incorporated into this document and then the ball field rental um Public Works has made this suggestion that if there's a you know like a tournament going on then there needs to be midday uh maintenance that there's a 300 charge for that and then there's an increase in the softball tournament per field per day from 125 to 150 dollars so the house just going back to the Halsey uh our is there a way to do the facility plus the shelter as one and then if you just need the shelter that opens up that makes great question it's left to interpretation I um as we talk through it yes that was why there was a shelter fee if you didn't want to rent The Pavilion and I guess I didn't I'll probably need Clarity or have someone provide Clarity around if you run to the Pavilion you got the shelter I I so that should be Pavilion plus shelter correct with a an amount correct but then if you want to just use the shelter that will open up how do you handle that well it open up the the other either you're getting both or you get one or the other but if a res if a resident would come in and want to rent the open air shelter on a specific date prior to somebody renting the Pavilion is the Pavilion no longer available for so it's it's one flat fee you rent one you get both you don't it's is that what you're suggesting no I'm saying separate the two and that's the way I think well that's why I understood it to be today but it sounds like there's in in instead and I believe tomorrow night you have a park in a staff will get clarification um to find out on that that's yeah yeah much better I was just bringing it up that there's some some confusion with that but there'll be clarification tomorrow night on on how that's going to change but that potentially could be a change that's going to come on here um for the sixth when we finalize this um and then there's been some discussion um and I know that their city council had discussion about this in the past and so it's just kind of a question uh whether there needs to be further discussion or reaffirmation for ball field rental there seems to be um I think no charge for non-profits versus uh profits being charged um even though the fee schedule does not indicate any of that I think that's been the practice that's happening for for some reason um so I think we need clarification on that too yeah everybody's looking at me yeah I don't remember nonprofits not being charged but foreign policy has been but how did we Define non-profit and then wasn't it a non-profit within the city it was so pick a random Community they could come and have our ball fields for free when did that happen so I thought it was defined as non-profit within the city so that allows churches schools whoever wants to utilize the ball field for an outing um you know nursing Athletic Association um but I didn't realize that it just happened once or foreign that it goes back to being limited to North St Paul nonprofits um but I'm I'm only of one opinion sitting up here um well you got the meeting tomorrow so we got to meet we've got a meeting tomorrow look to to gain clarity um because I know there's a couple things going on with rental property with whether it be ball fields or Casey Lake um so yeah that's that's I mean what do you guys think what's what's the general consensus I don't remember the non-profits getting was that me that that did it no you're looking at me like you're like I didn't do it I'm like no I don't think it was me I vaguely remember the conversation I mean I could see a discount for maybe a non-profit you know that's a possibility but what what do you think Carrie I mean you you're no hmm so I would say bring it back to the park and rec you guys talk about it tomorrow night with the I think you know we should have some sort of fee whether it's a discounted fee or for Resident n for for non-profits within the city or just across across the board across the board make it simpler simpler because you're always going to get that nonprofit that wants we'll piggyback onto another non-profit that's in the city thank you you have a list I have a list Brian I hope you're you're taking notes for Jill as well sorry Dan oh no this is great thank you no these are these are you know as staff puts us together then there's questions um that that come up so all this is actually good clarification um I believe the next change that we'll have will be on page 21. [Music] um Police Department fees um the you'll see the first one underneath photographs they used to charge it for CD and DVD they no longer do that so if it's a hard you know paper single copy it's five dollars so that got changed there you can see report copies um they really don't do transcription it's really covered underneath the clerical per hour um the police officer um is based upon looking at the 2023 cost for the police force and come up with an hourly rate and then add an amount for the squad car rental and the squad car because you're not going to have a squad without a officer so that's been eliminated there and then you can see the photographs is now is now done on a thumb drive that would cost twenty dollars and you can see there's a 9-1-1 audio instead of a transcription that so it get reduced from fifty dollars to twenty dollars and then the next changes are on page 23 with Public Works fees meter charges and and virtually all of the meter charges have increased those are the actual costs plus three percent um anticipating what they would be in 2023 per our Public Works Department and then we have [Music] um the utility rates coming up next if you remember last Workshop we had a discussion we were based upon the financial plans we were looking at doing a 2.75 percent increase in waste water and at that point in time city manager frandel had mentioned that electric was looking at at one point in time it talked about a five percent increase that it was going to be um hopefully heading down towards three percent um we were from the financial plan we probably could absorb you know somewhere in the range of about a two to three percent to two and a half percent um increase in the cost um city council kind of gave the direction that we would change that um those rates up one and a half percent um we have learned that it will not be reduced from the five percent that there will be a five percent increase so these rates are now reflective of a 2.75 percent increase so we were able to absorb underneath the the current rate 2.25 percent of that increase but we will have to pass 2.75 percent um onto the rate I think city manager you're anxious to clarify that that's on a wholesale level so we can cover those costs at the retail level with 2.75 so all of those rates on page 24 have been increased 2.75 percent there will be no changes in their garbage rates no change in our changes in our service water rates our Wastewater rates again the suggestion was increasing 2.75 percent those have been increased um I did throw an attachment here of what the post changes from Maplewood are um but that will not be finalized um I think it gets finalized by their City Council on November 21st and I believe that was all the changes and then on page 28 was that I had added a note for penalty of overdue outstanding utility balances but that can be removed because it's actually incorporated into the charges that was previous where I had discussed that we will be reducing it from a 10 penalty to a five percent we had talked about a data request fee a few years ago and we did not put that in place I'd like to find out what is the amount of time for data request do we have a lot of them is it uh are we able to charge a data request fee and I don't know what that looks like I know we can't charge more than what you know the data request is actually you're being required but any data that's public can be requested for investigation um for free and then when you get into like the copies and the amount of copies and stuff that's when prices start that's when you can actually start charging you know if there are cities are doing that or um yes and typically it's just done through the statute I don't know if I've seen too many that have it in the fee schedule it's good for clarity though but because we don't charge anything right now do we uh no I don't believe so but underneath our miscellaneous fee section there is a copy fee um the rate so for a black and white per page is 25 cents my Spidey senses told me that Carrie said It's All Digital so then no there would be if the information is already public the public is entitled to that yes without cost so we cannot charge uh no but I'll put in a it depends on you know if there's if there's hard copies it better be if there's something else that were to come up that because there's only a few things that you can charge for under the state statute okay staff um well I guess um I can definitely make sure that I'm giving you guys the right information on that but my understanding is no if it's public they they're entitled to that information but you're right I mean there must be a limiting principle so I'll let you know okay any questions no just for um your awareness we will end up probably you know sometime early part of next year having a discussion on um currently right now the city pays all credit card fees um and so that'll be a discussion that will be posed to City Council in a workshop Forum um [Laughter] good luck to uh to to see if that's something that we want to do in the meantime um I have come up with a different option to reduce our costs um and so we're going to uh pursue moving in that direction part of it is our card readers that we currently are using are really not in PCI compliance so we have some security risks that we need to start moving forward with that and so we'll do that and we'll actually see a reduced cost that the city is paying for now but then the discussion will be do we pass that on in some way shape or form to the residents so it'll be just something for for your FYI always looking at ways to try to save money for the city so right now initially it looks like we could potentially on the Utility side for the payments we pay probably between 150 to 180 000 a year underneath this option we probably could reduce that about seventy thousand dollars a year so um yeah and so that's part of one of the workshops that we had looking for your ideas of what we can do to try to either generate additional revenue or reduce costs so we're taking what you've told us and and doing our investigation and and looking forward to it so again I uh conclude with if there's no other further questions I conclude with this is just a fantastic group and I Thanks for the the dialogue and um this is great thank you city manager anything any further any questions nothing nothing all right motion to adjourn don't move your honor by councilmember Peterson it's down to two of us so it's me second uh I was talking about councilmember Cole any discussion I was in favor signify for saying aye aye oppose we are adjourned