This transcript is from a Planning Commission meeting. Based on the roll call and the context provided, the Planning Commission members present are **Steve Nordin** (Chair), **Chris Nobach**, **Chad Johnson**, and members referred to as **Hamma**, **Gasmi** (transcribed as GMI), and **Fox**. **Zach** is the staff member presenting the report. [0:28] (Silence) [0:58] (Silence) [1:28] (Silence) [1:58] (Silence) [2:28] (Silence) [2:58] (Silence) [3:28] (Silence) [3:58] (Silence) [4:57] **Steve Nordin:** Uh, welcome to the September 9th Planning Commission meeting. Uh, roll call—I see everyone's here: Hamma, Johnson, Gasmi, Fox, and Nobach. So the next thing on the agenda would be to approve the agenda. **Chad Johnson:** So moved. **Hamma:** Second. [5:20] **Steve Nordin:** Moved by Johnson, second by Hamma to approve the agenda. Any further discussion? All in favor say "aye." **Commissioners:** Aye. **Steve Nordin:** We all lied—yeah, I said I can't remember what I'm supposed to say in that approval. Yeah, say no, but we all approve. Yes. Okay, you can do this, Steve. Um, can I get approval of the minutes from August 19th? Your turn down there. **Chris Nobach:** Motion approve. **Fox:** Second. [6:00] **Steve Nordin:** Motion by Nobach, second by Fox to approve the minutes of August 19th. Any further discussion? All in favor, "aye." Oppose? Motion carries. I remember what it was. Good. Okay, next thing on the agenda is the public input. Uh, nobody signed up, so we'll dispense with that. Uh, next on the agenda would be a public hearing: conditional use permit for a residential eating disorder facility. Zach, you want to give us a little background? [6:33] **Zach (Staff):** Yeah, not a problem. So, good evening, guys. We have an application for a conditional use permit to allow a residential eating disorder facility in the RB Zone, 300 Dow Street North, per the recently amended ordinance. If you guys recall, um, rehab centers are allowed via a CUP in the B2 Zone, and residential facilities are a permitted use in all residential zones except for the RB. Um, so in your packet tonight, you'll see a list of the permitted and conditional uses, all the uses in the RB Zone. Um, it was never stated in writing, um, but the most obvious assumption is the application tonight would be for a CUP under Section 152.608(H). Um, I believe the applicant and myself are here obviously if you guys have any questions. But yeah, please share your thoughts on that use. [7:19] **Steve Nordin:** That being said, I'm going to open the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak to the request, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record. Second call: anyone wishing to speak? [7:57] **Casey Cree:** My name is Casey Cree and I live at 1221 State Street West. Um, I don't know what is going on with the building; there has been lots going on back there recently and I have small children back there who I am concerned about, letting them out there with the conditions of not only how it's been looking, but as well as what's been going on with the building and garbage flying around. Even though it's been cleaned up, that building is not a habitable place to be. The conditional use permit—I understand that it would be a great thing to have. I am all for it if the building were up to code, if things were taken care of. However, at this time, I don't see that being a thing that should even be over there until all the problems are addressed with the property itself. [8:43] **Steve Nordin:** Okay, thank you. Thanks, Casey. Anyone else wishing to address the request? **Jonathan Katz:** Hi, Jonathan—uh, I can address that. **Steve Nordin:** Can I get your— **Jonathan Katz:** Jonathan Katz. **Steve Nordin:** Can I get your address? **Jonathan Katz:** Um, I don't live here. I'm the— **Steve Nordin:** We need your address, okay. **Jonathan Katz:** Uh, 545 West End Avenue, New York, New York. Uh, yeah, I agree the building is not habitable. That's part of why we want to make it into a facility. We're going to make it habitable. Uh, we're going to have to do everything in the Minnesota state license to get licensed for the facility. So it is in our plan, once we get approval, to go ahead and fix the facility. [10:00] **Steve Nordin:** Okay, thank you. Anyone else wishing to address the public hearing? Third and last call: anybody wishing to address the conditional use permit? Hearing none, I'm going to close the public hearing. Committee discussion? [10:09] **Gasmi:** Just in a clarification—your understanding, Zach, is this conditional use permit application does not fit in the RB zoning that is where the old nursing home is, um, unless there's significant information to prove that they fit under one of the permitted and conditional uses? **Zach (Staff):** Um, I guess I haven't—I haven't seen that. Um, but yeah. **Gasmi:** Um, one thing I—I've noticed, and it's—I hate to say it wrong, but um, we just worked on this uh, rehab center ordinance. Uh, is it number 404, is that right? Is that the number? **Zach (Staff):** Correct. **Gasmi:** Okay, a couple years ago— **Steve Nordin:** Just passed it in May, yeah. [11:00] **Gasmi:** So, um, the way I read it—and um, I think that's kind of what this is, is a rehab facility—and um, I just... I'm thinking that's why we passed this, to make sure that um... well, not to "make sure," I don't want to say that, um... we can allow it in other areas of the city, but not in this particular area. Zach, did I say that right? **Zach (Staff):** Right. I mean, I think at the end of the day, um, the applicant has to prove that they fit into the RB Zone. I mean, they're responsible for defining themselves; the city can't, you know, assume or guess what the use is. Um, so if they, you know, have significant information to say, "Hey, this is where we fit under this," that's great. But we can't go and assume or guess how the use fits in that zone. [12:30] **Chris Nobach:** See, I guess the way that I read it, whether they fit under "rehab center" or "residential facility," I don't... neither of those fit under the conditional use permit or the operating procedures for Residential Business. So I don't know—I mean, it's not defined well, but even if you classify yourself under one of those two, I don't know how we pass this with the current language, um, which is unfortunate because it seems like a deal. But Zach, do you want to say something? **Zach (Staff):** Right. I think, I mean, at the—when I first kind of introduced it, I think the most obvious assumption is that they're going to be applying for—they are applying for—uh, under H in the 152.608. Um, so it's "Hospital or similar institution." Um, if the applicant would like to speak on that, then maybe that could guide the board to make a decision. But again, we can't—I mean, and it's hard to, you know, guide someone without... we need a little bit more information, I think, um, as to how this would fit in the zone. [14:06] **Gasmi:** So I think it says it pretty clearly right here on our code. It has to be similar to a nursing home. Group housing doesn't qualify—does qualify, does not qualify, is that right? Or "Hospital, sanitarium, or similar institutions, not including residential rehab centers." So it's pretty clearly written. We don't allow residential rehab centers. That's—that's what we did here. I think if you—one of the things you should look at, and I did pass out some information: under "residential rehab center," it states co-occurring disorders, right? So under the two sheets that I sent out under eating disorders, um, one of them states, "Eating disorders often co-occur with other psychiatric disorders, most commonly mood and anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and alcohol and substance use disorder." When we built this ordinance last year, this is—this is exactly what we were talking about. **Steve Nordin:** Yep. [15:20] **Gasmi:** The other thing that I passed out um, was another one. That first one was out of the American Psychiatric Association. This one's out of *Psychology Today*: "Eating disorders frequently occur together with other psychiatric illnesses such as depression, substance abuse, and/or anxiety disorders." So when we built what a rehab center is, this is exactly what we were talking about. **Steve Nordin:** Yep. I know there was a lot of concern um, with the other one that we had in town and the—and the stuff that was going on. But this—when we built this ordinance, it took us a year to do it, um... **Chris Nobach:** So in other words, if they'd made the application in a B2 Zone, then we could consider it. **Steve Nordin:** Absolutely. So if you find the correct zoning area, then we can look at it. But if we—if you put it in the wrong zoning area, then it's against our code. You can get up, yeah. [16:26] **Jonathan Katz:** Yeah, so I don't think we fall under residential rehab centers. Uh, we are not going to be built to handle detoxes and things like that. Uh, I think we'd fall under the "residential facility State licensed," which you guys uh, have a definition for as five or more people whose primary diagnosis is mental illness, uh, which eating disorder falls under. So, I mean, co-occurring disorders could be just about anything, uh, but we're not planning and/or going to be capable of handling substance abuse and/or alcohol disorders facility uh, like illnesses and issues, as we will not have a detox. **Chris Nobach:** So Zach, can you clarify for us—not to put you on the spot—but say that's the way we see it, same as them, that they're a "residential facility state licensed." That still can't happen in an RB zone, right? [17:12] **Zach (Staff):** There's a couple other zones in—they're all residential zones. This is the only—they're all permitted to have residential facilities. This is the only zone that doesn't permit or even allow by conditional use a residential facility. Um, I know you... you know, if there—if you can make an argument that what you're proposing is more aligned to a hospital, that would fit, but um... that—that's correct, yeah. R1, R2, R3 um, allow for that. **Jonathan Katz:** But I think we can argue more that we are closer to a nursing home, uh, where people come in, get better, and then go out. **Steve Nordin:** Would you be affiliated with a hospital? **Jonathan Katz:** Uh, we do plan on getting affiliated once we're up and running, but uh, the Mayo Clinic is our dream partnership. **Steve Nordin:** Is your—you're representing an organization that uh, runs these facilities in other places? **Jonathan Katz:** This will be our first one, but uh, our team has an extensive history in this. They've built for other companies give-or-take uh, 20 such facilities. [18:45] **Steve Nordin:** How, if you're—if you're—pardon me, but if you're from New York, how did you end up in Minnesota? **Jonathan Katz:** Because you guys have the Mayo Clinic, and the Mayo Clinic is one of the greatest hospitals in America. **Steve Nordin:** So you don't own the facility currently? **Jonathan Katz:** No. **Steve Nordin:** Is that your intent? **Jonathan Katz:** If we get approval to make the facility, yes. **Steve Nordin:** But you're not affiliated with a hospital at this point? [19:15] **Steve Nordin:** No further discussion. Yes, Jessie—anything? **Commission Member:** Um, so what's involved with the state license on this process? What do you mean by that? **Jonathan Katz:** Um, you said you'd have to get licensed through the state. So is that—are you categorized then as a rehab facility? What's the— **Jonathan Katz:** No, we wouldn't be categorized as a rehab facility. They define rehab similar to you where it's substance and/or alcohol. **Commission Member:** Okay, so what does the licensing process involve? **Jonathan Katz:** Uh, inspection of the properties, looking over our uh—what's it called again—processes and all policy and procedures. Uh, going over making sure that we have the right staff ratios depending on our client base. [20:21] **Gasmi:** I guess um, I get where you're coming from, and I also get where the city is coming from on this um, because it really is—it's a real thin line here. If—if you get this and you run this, it's a—in my opinion, it's a slippery slope, right? On—once you get up and running and you get permission, then um, I don't—I don't see the city um, getting too involved with the day-to-day activities of this and it becomes a real um... it's easy to all of a sudden sort of switch into a facility that, while at the beginning it was going to be this, it may morph into something else. Um, you know, I—I would prefer obviously um, that it was just in a different—a different zone, right? I mean, I'm just going with a facility—you know what I'm saying? **Jonathan Katz:** I hear you. There's a building there that's meant for— **Gasmi:** I get it, I get it. [21:28] **Bava Katz:** Can I—can I address—sorry. Hi, Bava Katz. Um, can I address what you just said about um, that it's a slippery slope and can morph into something else? Um, these facilities are very strictly um, uh, coded and you—there is not any flexibility in what you are. A nursing home is a nursing home; it cannot be an assisted living. An assisted living cannot be an independent living. Um, it's—everything's kind of siloed out and put into their own little box. So when we come in and we say that there will be no substance and alcohol abuse um, uh, disorders there—somebody may have had that and recovered, but before they come into this facility, they have to be recovered because we—we will not be equipped um, nor um, by federal regulation allowed to have those people there. So there isn't such a slippery slope as you—as you can imagine. It's not um, you know, like... I don't know what kind of example to give you. It's not like opening up a school from, like, kindergarten and then all of a sudden having a high school, you know what I mean? Where one kind of goes right into the other. Here, it's two very separate things. You have to have two very, very different personnel who—who, you know, staffing-wise, who can administer to those type of people, and it's just not going to—it's not going to go over one to the other. Um, when Jonathan said about being more like a nursing home, um, what I think he meant was that it's a group of people living together who get the services that they need in order to get back to life. Um, so there will be, you know, different therapies there, there will be that type of thing, but there will not be um, anything with drug or substance abuse. It's just not—it's not going to be coded for it in any way. [23:28] **Steve Nordin:** Okay, thank you. This is supposed to be our time for discussion. **Bava Katz:** Oh, sorry. **Steve Nordin:** That's all right. We wanted their—if there's—I mean, if there's anything else that I can, you know, answer... [24:03] **Gasmi:** So um, I thank you for that um, and I—and I understand the philosophy and of—of what—what you're trying to do. Um, it's—it still feels like a rehab facility. Maybe not an alcohol and a drug rehab facility, but it's still—right, you guys are a slightly different thing. But the way that the ordinance is written is it's about rehab facilities. Excuse me. So that's I think where the rub comes as far as not meeting um, the ability to be a conditional use. [24:49] **Steve Nordin:** And I would second what—you know, it's not that we don't want the building to be used or actually torn down or rehabbed or something, um, but we want it to be a use that is compatible to the um, RB Zone that it exists in. And not that we don't want your organization to succeed in an eating disorder rehab thing, it's not the right zone for it. Um, and I don't even go with the "slippery slope," I just—it's—it's not in our language to have it allowed there. Um, at which—I'm sorry, you know, to have to say that, but um... anything else? [26:00] **Gasmi:** I'm going to make a motion to recommend approval of Resolution 2024-15, denying a conditional use permit. **Hamma:** I'll second it. **Steve Nordin:** Motion by Gasmi, second by Hamma. Any further discussion? All in favor, "aye." **Commissioners:** Aye. **Steve Nordin:** Motion carries. And then we'll uh, prepare a resolution with bringing the facts of this decision. I think Zach already has it in there, right? Zach, you got the findings in—what, he's got the findings in the resolution? **Zach (Staff):** Okay. **Steve Nordin:** You do it right now. Okay, that moves us on to next meeting. What next meeting? I'm sorry, we have to talk about um, our meeting in October. Uh, because that is um, a city administrators meeting? Is that right, Jon? Is that—did I say that right? City administrators meeting? **Jon Radermacher:** Staff meeting. Staff meeting. [27:15] **Steve Nordin:** Staff meeting, all the candidates. So not seeing a calendar in front of me, you want to move it one week back? **Zach (Staff):** 21st. 21st of October. **Steve Nordin:** October 21st. Okay, 21st, okay. Is that okay with everybody? Okay. And then so moving on to November—actually we could really ask Zach, that's okay with you? We show—moving on to November is uh, Veterans Day, right? It is the 11th. Should we push that back a week too, then, as suppose? Matter okay with you guys? So that would be November 18th? **Zach (Staff):** 18th should work. [28:21] **Steve Nordin:** Okay. Anything else anybody wants to bring up for tonight? **Commission Member:** Can't we find something to go on until 10? **Steve Nordin:** No, Monday Night Football. Uh, I'm going to make a motion to adjourn. **Chad Johnson:** Second. **Steve Nordin:** Motion by Gasmi, second by Johnson to adjourn. All those in favor, "aye." **Commissioners:** Aye. **Steve Nordin:** Thank you. [29:27] (Silence)