parks and trails commission uh elected to move forward with playw world as a vendor so we have a design uh that includes 2 to five year old area and a 5 to 12 year old area we incorporated the hillside so that we have uh two Bridges and two embankment slides that come down the hillside in the on the east side of the playground and then the trails connect uh the playround area to the building Plaza and so these are the designs of what the play structure looks like we incorporated the agricultural theme and into the towers the 25y structure there you can see one of the slides coming down on the hill side and then this is looking from the East you can see the bridges that connect uh from the sidewalk up to the tower and the other ement slide and then the splash pad we got two different designs from two different vendors and the perks and trails commission elected to move forward with Aquatics again U like Jess said we incorporated some uh surface features then also a few above ground features so there's many options for what would be incorporated in terms of the above ground features so a few images show what the splash pipe look like so these abovegr features are nature theme but they have many different options for what those uh this slide is highlighting again where that Regional Trail is so the at the south end of the parking lot the dash line that is a section of trail that would not be paved in the first phase the idea is that the trail would eventually connect across County Road 50 but we don't know exactly where that will be so we've been talking with Rivers Park District uh we looked at a few different options but we identified that as potentially connecting towards the east of the crossing occurs closer to where the existing warming house is today so the in the first phase the trail will be built starting at the South West corner of the parking lot and then all the way to County Road 10 uh this slide highlights some of the alternate items so in looking at the full Park buildout that we've designed so far these would be items that we chose to identify as alternates so we would bid them as not part of the base bid so the pickle ball ports some of the pave Trails through uh the ball fields and a lot of the lighting and then another pave trail that provides X Ada access down to the t-ball Fields the open air shelter behind the park building and some additional outdoor storage so now we can get into the budget scenarios so we uh went through several iterations of trying to identify how the existing Park dedication funding could be used to construct something this year so we looked at uh scenario 1A which does not include a building it includes uh playground Fields parking lot Regional Trail no splash ped no building and the total estimated construction cost would be 4 half million for that which includes the remaining is projected uh the next scenario includes a full building which would include only a gravel parking lot so this does not me the city code requirements but it would get that full building built uh and no playground Splash Pad will be included in that Naro either and that is a little over 5 million narrow 2A would be the full building with minimum pay parking lot so not a full parking lot as shown in the concept but a smaller version of that no play that would be almost 7 million scenario 2B we would elect to build half the building so the portion with the restrooms and kitchen the western side of the building with the parking lot and playground which may have a few limited elements would scale back on some of the features in the playground and that could be traded up with the Splat pad they're roughly the same cost when quick question when you say half the building do you mean like building finishing half the building or building potentially the whole building but only finishing portion of it it would only be building half of the building so we have the the pad there to the foundation to build the remaining part of the building on the east side but we we only do the first part so the unbuilt upon pad could that still be Plaza area that until we built the rest of the building you mean me yeah that was my question yeah at this point we haven't that was that's a conceptual idea we haven't designed the building that way designed in the whole way so that would be more designed in order to design how that could be built halfway with the opportunity the expansion in the future if you didn't do the building would you just put a cement slab in for the building that's a good question probably probably just have something unless we were sure that we didn't want to which I don't think we are right like at any time something oh something to note there is some given take there so if there isn't a building in place then we can't do a splash pad because you need to have run one bathrooms in order to have the splash bad Rock and and we'd have to put those like pre Place those utilities for the future building uh rating go over the top so you're not disturbing that later right so sario 3 includes the full plan which I just described in the previous slides and then the next slides include a graphic oh this is the so this is the full cost estimate that um was summarized in the previous uh so the red cells highlight the items that are missing from each of these scenarios and again we can look at a highbrid of of two or more of these scenarios in order to accomplish what is desired this year uh so this uh slide one a again going without the building at all so this is a lot of site work 1B includes a full building gravel parking lot very limited site work and then the Regional Trail which is included in all the scenarios due to the the reimbursement from three and then 2 a so this includes the full building and some of the site work but not the playr spash and then 2B includes this is the one that includes half of the building and the playground the parking lot and the fields includes everything so on all these slides in yellow is highlighted the park dedication amount or city funding that would be needed to accomplish any of these ballpark question for Jay put on your Finance hat for a second the um scenario three if we bonded for The Gap what is the annual expense to cover that uh well lucky for us our long-term financial planner would be is present but uh in in terms of financing the Gap um if if we were to bond for that like it depends on what we get for a rate so that's going to impact us uh the length of the bond how long 10 years well it would depend I don't know what what the Gap is but when you're done with this I'm going to get up there and speak about 2025 so we could look at one of those so we we could look at that as a scenario but but one of the things that that is important to note so there's there's a little bit of cash flow and so staff was talking about this before so while we currently have $5.3 million in park dedication fee uh we're also going to be reimbursed at some point half a million dollars for cpf dollars from the federal government and we're also going to get uh anywhere between 525 and 1.2 million reimbursed for the Regional Trail depends on the cost they're only going to reimburse us for the cost of the trail and so um those those numbers shouldn't be factored into what we're trying to do because we're going to but we've got a cash flow it there's also that other Grant opportunity so timing happens and then and the mayor and I have been talking about other grant opportunities as well uh both for for Trail uh and then JCB is always looking for grant opportunities so so there might be other money out there but right now it's important to note that our actual potential sources is more like 1.5 or sorry 6.5 million but we've got a cash flow uh everything above 5.3 million until we get reimbursed with it okay and so so timing is really important and if we've watched like the federal government right now their freeze we don't know how that's going to impact our reimbursement as that goes through HUD and so we might have to to carry that a long time and potentially forever like they might just cancel it that's we don't know uh we haven't gotten answers related to that what's going to happen uh we do know that we will get reimbursed in a timely fashion from Three Rivers Park District but we have to pay it and then we get paid back um so I just wanted to emphasize that in terms of of what we're looking at for a a park project there's there's another a little more than a million dollars above Park dedication and then the timing of this matters too is as Natalie mentioned we'll get roughly a million dollars here coming in this year as long as development happens the way that we think it will and then this ties into the question that we delayed previously about what about these other neighborhood parks are we going to fulfill our social contract with these other neighborhood parks um what was the question Mr Mayor um I think I made have answered in my head after that but uh a million dollars coming in under the current Formula or is that stuff that's already been final platted that so the million dollars is final plat that we are working on wrapping up so we're expecting those fees to be coming in soon I think um because I outlined my reps I just want to make sure but I believe those are all the final plats and then we have um final plats and and um we're expect we Fairway Shores was preliminarily approved and that's a little over 300,000 I don't I think it's a two-phase development they are working on trying to come in with a final plot this year as well so I would assume we can expect something to come in as well for that how long are we thinking a uh update to the park dedication fee would take prioritize it um so we have um I don't know fair enough couple weeks are really rough for me U but once we get p so basically we have a March is going to be a bear of a meeting for planning and then once we get passed once I get done with the planning commission reports the city council reports going to be a little easier so then I can switch gears and go back to park dedication six six weeks minim yeah gotta I'm just trying to think for stuff that we know is coming in that hasn't been final pled yet the more that we get under the new formula the better correct yeah absolutely um and then we have so we have chastic family farm preliminary plant coming in we have um I forgot that bton business park also will have some Park dedication um so we and then uh hope last we talked with hope they're planning at least the bill rest of the bill is coming in this year so that's some of that too and so it's all based on when the final the final plat is approved what the park dedication fee is at that time so yes if I can get this updated for those final plats to come um that should help as well um but I all that to say is I would say roughly a million dollars is what we're anticipating this year and I'm being conservative with that number definitely conservative so um but based on the best of my knowledge so gotcha so so that back back to my point about the timing matters and then to Circle back to the to the bonding question um you know that that gets into the questions about tax capacity and where are we spending our tax capacity are we spending on debt service to go for Parks right now we're using tax capacity and we're bonding to pay for equipment that's necessary to provide the services that come with that increased requirement with the increased uh population and so that would be a shift in philosophy if we if we chose to take Debt Service and rather than focus it on the increase demand for services we shift it in this direction because as we do this too there's also going to The increased demand for maintenance that isn't calculated right now in terms of future costs this is just to get it delivered so so when we get this delivered we're going to need more equipment and and we're going to need more people and even W programming right yeah it's going to activate spaces in a different way and so so there's a there's a wave of additional costs that are going to come and so if we use up our tax capacity in order to deliver the project we aren't going to have it in order to maintain it um and then I just want to I don't want to overlook um so we talked about the 500,000 from the federal government the 525,000 from Three Rivers uh hin County we also have a grant for 300,000 as well and we we have to use that this year Noe 2026 2026 oh I I was tracking this year so we do want to get moving yep um so roughly right now out out out uh fundings from other sources is about 1.47 million um in addition to our Park dedication how about the U family uh the family so it's a it's a TBD um and then we're looking at other creative sources as well and that's a TBD um so I think some of those efforts uh I think when you know staff's best case scenario um you know potentially working with creative sources for the playground and splash pad and focusing efforts on the building uh and the and the funding on the build that would be kind of where we're at obviously uh we're looking for where you're at as a council but that would be uh one way we could look at it as we can focus on Creative funding sources for the playground and splash pad as long as we have the overall vision for those areas um and then we could focus on the rest of the improvements with the funding that we do have currently we we do have $100,000 from the JC that's dedicated towards the splash ped too uh but we can't redirect those funds towards anything else without talking with them and right now in our last conversations there's a desire as I understand it to be patient rather than redirect like they that was my last conversation oh I guess yeah okay yeah you might have had a more recent conversation and there might be flexibility there but there's not that's $100,000 as well but it it's currently earmarked specifically for an amenity but and I think from discussions with the family I believe they are very interested in the playground so yeah so so my initial thoughts were I like scenario 1 a because it allows you to get the playground um which was the number one requested amenity in the community feedback that we received I also like that it's affordable um I think we could even look at maybe adding in some of the pickle ball optional items under that scenario since there would be enough Park dedic ation funds in hand to cover that uh I did not like 1B or 2A because they don't deliver number one or number two in the priority list I could support 2B um with either the playground or the splash pad I guess I would probably prefer the playground just because I think it'll get used more Splash pad's really only helpful on a hot day in my experience um that is true can I add a potential and I don't necessarily disagree with you I just a potential counter argument is that we do have a playground might not be what we want it to be but we don't have a splash pad so you can kind of look at it six one way have it as another of Michelle yeah can I add something into that um I I see both points but I would tend to agree more with Jeremy simply because I look at a park and I think that a splash pad is an extra m a park is like a basic park with like playground equipment slides f um that's just my opinion um and then I think it's a nice balance too because we've already got the trail system that's going to be going in around so then you've got the the park that accommodates different ages and then could we at some point if we go with let's say we it's Option 1 a could at some point maybe in the future we go out to the community and say hey would you guys be willing to support this and then finish the whole park and see where that would lay or where that would and maybe it's the building and the splash pad or maybe it's the pickle ball and the splash pad and the building separate in two separate questions to the community like in the next election can I ask one question CL question yeah yeah as as far as uh activating space so all of the spaces that we're talking about in 1A are accessible depending on when thaw happens from middle to end of May to early September when kids go back to school uh versus some of these other options could be activated like we were talking about potentially for year- round programming and uh so in terms of banging for your buck and impacting people uh 12 months a year versus 120 days I just raise that as a question I think you'll probably see a lot more use in terms of number of people number of human hours on the amenities for the outdoor stuff than for the stuff that will happen in the building not that there's not value in the building too but I think it's much more cost intensive and it will probably have less use I think longer term I would like to see a larger building than what we have identified I think when you're limiting it to 90 people you're kind of scoping it out of a lot of larger uses for the city or for people who might want to rent it out so I I kind of like 2B and then it gives you maybe some flexibility to change the building size if you have more funding available later maybe pump it up to 200 people capacity or 250 um but you're still getting in the essential especially if you can make it into a plaza so at least there is sort of that Gathering space and people can activate that a little bit I see that as an advantage a question uh for H KGI uh we'd have to put in a pad that can accommodate that initially at the time of inception with the utilities and stuff correct me if I'm wrong if we were to do a option to be if we talked about potentially increasing capacity in the future we'd have to build a pad that guess we wouldn't have to but it probably be the best the most fiscally responsible way to do it yeah okay just right yeah you would I would agree yeah just real quick on my side as far as the building and increas in the size I'd rather put that money into a campus Building in a Campus room as far as that goes MTI tied up to Park dedication where we can't do that well we're already over our what we've got money for I'm just saying I I I I'd rather this be a little bit smaller destination than something that we aren't going to need for a while but I think a campus including a community room those kind of things that a campus would be in our future where to build this bigger and where the building is now and where the plans are now where you've had it you can't go to the east because you'll fall off the cliff or the side of the Hill you can't go north because you're going to move into the playground and such I mean it it's a pretty specific size building plan unless you build into the parking lot or or something like that I I think we're restricted to grow the building anymore hell of an idea but I think where it's placed and the current plans y all have done I don't think you could put in a bigger Building without taking away the plaza and then not having that outside seating around the the North End I guess it depends how big of the building yeah talking but we initially were looking at 5,000 building this is about 3500 so okay question some lar building question for any of the options that are like you know if we're talking about doing the playground instead of Splash Pad initially does that include so if we're not doing the splash pad up front are we still running the water to where the splash pad will be so that we're not digging up and doing all the utility work point where it makes sense okay make sure it's the way from any inst so far a easy to hook up to when you be do it got gotcha thanks may I add some more complicating factors in next um so to both Jay and counselor Nicholls points um with the building it's kind of Hit or Miss whether or not it would get more use than a the playground I think it's arguable that we have quite a few different departments that have said some uses that they'd like to see it for right we've got firearm safety courses we've got elections we've got a variety of things that could be incorporated into the building um that we are using external agencies or their building space um as these other agencies are looking to develop their spaces as well or maybe adjust their offerings it kind of leaves us in a where do we go type of situation if we don't time it correctly um additionally I think it does offer an alternative to what we're offering right now which is only youth Athletics so if I were to try and not necessarily sway you in a certain way but at least get you to consider like we are really only offering for youth right now um and as we continue to have these older populations that are moving in to dedicated Living Spaces it's hard to say hey yeah we'd love to offer something for you but we're not going to have pickle ball necessarily with the first phase and here's a playground it gets kind of tough when we don't have anything else to really offer them at this time I I think it's interesting the de demographic of the folks who responded were young families with kids but if you look at the demographic of our community um none of them are here tonight but we had other people that are here uh previously would their interest be represented in your The Proposal of just building amenities that are available during the summer um and also to build on what JCB saying uh those sorts of things that she's talking about we can't currently continue to service like even the last uh election we're having some problems when we had our public forum and we've been asked by some of the people in the public to not continue to offer our public forum at a church uh because they felt like that inhibited their their comfortability as a resident coming in uh so we don't have an alternative right now and uh as council member ven Camp was talking about like in the future we definitely need to do a Civic campus but we don't have a plan to do that right now we do have a plan to build a building that could be activated for recreational purposes it would be the anchor to serve uh growing into some of the other opportunities as Park dedication comes in uh I would venture to Guess that if we build the playgrounds on stuff first uh this building probably isn't going to get built just um because it is the most expensive piece of the project and so if we don't do it we're probably not really going to do it uh it it will get punted until it comes time to do a specific campus and we are going to have a problem with what do we do with some of these other activities uh that we can't deliver the services that we need to and and when we went for a grant proposal for last cpf dollars that was one of the justifications that we said is we currently don't have a public building uh to council member Von Camp's earlier conversation other communities use adjacent Schools elementary schools middle schools high schools we don't have a single one in the community m I I hear what you're saying I can't support a plan that doesn't have a playground and or a splash pad in it so that leaves us with scenario three which we don't have a vial mechanism to afford from what I'm hearing from staff yeah we don't we don't have a viable mechanism to deliver that kind of project without some of the some of the other things that we have to do right now yeah uh you know so scenario 3 has not been in a long-term financial plan MH uh it would be a huge pivot from our long-term financial plan and it would have significant implications on other priorities that we need to pay attention to just to deliver our services um and I want to make sure I heard you correctly so you you want to see either the splash pad or the playground it's like an either or for you playground or splash pad or you're you're saying you want to prioritize the playground I'm I'm saying the plan should do one of the top two things okay that we got public feedback on I I personally feel like the playground is more valuable than the Splash Pad but I'm open to well we can't do the splash pad without the building right um how so a scenario 2B and maybe it's like we need to as staff um when we're talk maybe it's a a hybrid of 2B figuring out how we can uh make 2B a little get those numbers to work a little bit more with the funding that we currently have one thing I would do is completely invert what we show as pay parking versus unpaved parking to start I'd pave that 45 space lowercase b bump that one down there the rest um Parks Trails had specifically said they didn't want that to be developed until later okay because when you come into the park it's more appealing to come into a nice grassy area than a big parking lot especially since unless we don't have the building anymore then I guess that wouldn't matter I get that well then maybe maybe not that specific area but equivalent amount of I I don't know that I would be interested in Paving more than a very minimal amount off the B and 2B doesn't deliver a building it delivers maybe it's it's actually more figuring out how to combine two uh two I'm sorry one b 2 a and 2 B so figureing out how we can prioritize the building and the playground and figure out where else we can reduce costs potentially um and it um I'm going to I'm going to ask this one more time who said it we already have a playground it might not be new it might not be nice and it's a distance away but so that that's kind of where I in my belief my big dream is if we build a building and we have a plan for a playground we have all of this stuff MH people are going to start God I hope I would wish that we you're going to start having people come in and say I want to buy by this part of the playground I want to put in this part of I want to do this SP I mean we've already got a group that's thrown a 100,000 identified for the splash pad and stuff I just I love our wish list but I don't want to go broke before it's even built kind of deal and and we already have a playground I just it's there it might not be the nicest or anything but we do have a Prett can I add to that just yeah so if you were going to go that direction then why wouldn't we take the funds and put them into other Parks then if we have a park already at city park why don't we develop the other parks in the in the city then versus putting it into one building because the funding the funding that we've secured has been specific to this project the Outsource funding and we and some of that's starting to expire this year so and this is the park project that will have the most impact for the community overall versus the neighborhood parks and so that's that has been a decision that's been affirmed for a number of years now to get us to this point and I agree so I'm just I'm making a statement we could choose many different things to do with that Park dedication fund and I think we're mincing things trying to figure out how we're going to make this work I feel like we should work with when what we have is our budget and what allows for that what is the best option for people in our community to get the most use out of that whatever it is that we decide and when you look at a park or you look at a building the park is going to get more use and if it's going to be our shiny Park it's supposed to be the nice park of corkran to me it makes more sense to put that money then into the playground and into what we've developed so far and still see if we can go in sections and maybe we won't build the building for another five or six years 10 years maybe at some point we can go out to the community and say hey we want to build this what are your thoughts are you willing to fund this this is tough what what do we do about the services that we can't deliver because we don't have a public space have to find a different space what do other communities do that don't have schols difference they have a larger City Hall campus we've been told that there's a number of people that don't want to go to a church for a a city fun I mean it's sad yeah talked it having planning events at churches well we got to build building for the library before they'll bring book comp digital so I don't know that that would be a huge we could potentially use the Public Works building for like an elections if we need to in a pinch cuz that was reviewed a year and a half ago and it would work it would take some doing you'd have to have some set up to make sure that people are only allowed in a certain space but that we do have options it's not that we don't have a space so we have the Public Works building that's literally the only space other than this one because we chose with the renovation to eliminate the community room uh that was a conscious Choice based upon emerging demands um and so when when we were doing engagement um you know and and we were talking as staff we identified that and we submitted for a grant for it because we do not have a public space uh that's a owned by the municipality uh where where we can do planning engagement uh you know we're we're having to partner and we have great Partners uh but legitimately some of our residents are uncomfortable going into the spaces that our partners have uh because it's two different churches St theres uh is also a potential other good partner uh but but their spaces aren't that large uh they're they're smaller than the present space that we're talking about building um so so so that that's my big question is uh what do we do in the next five years is we have some significant things happening in which we literally do not have a public space and and one of the Visions was this would deliver that as well as you know fire safety or firearm safety right now we've got a great partner cuz we can't deliver it on our building anymore since we got rid of the community room uh uh that's one program and then there's there's other things that can't happen here um can I add to that and just say I'm still receiving calls to this day for people looking for reservable space you know and it's been years I mean at least what five since the remodel I don't know where they're still finding the information I've looked online it's not on there but people want a space And while I understand it might not have reflected as strongly in the survey if you had the option between to them it's a building that they might use maybe they'll enter it three times a year but in the grand scheme of things the impact that it would have on the community I think is quite large to councelor of Aaron Camp's Point yes we do have a playground again just to complicate it a little more it's about 25 30 years old so you're right it's not shiny and new but it's also getting to the end of its life cycle so we're starting to hit a lot of wicked problems and to complicate that staff means guidance go ahead to complicate that further though we're not talking about not doing a playground we're talking about potentially not doing a playground to start correct right correct like like what's what's our best first move what's the most immediate need so so when when we came to to council we asked to to approve the design plan the overall concept and so uh We've validated through engagement and through lots of thought from our commission that all of these things are important to the community that's why they've risen to the top ended up in the design plan so the question is the phasing of it where do we get the most bang for the buck with the 5.3 million that we have right now and back to my question is 12 days making nice fields in a playground the most bang for the buck for the community uh where I struggle is we've collected $5 million in park dedication not Municipal Building dedication that's a secondary role and if we had a surplus of funds where we could afford to do things that would address both needs I would see the valley when striving for that Synergy I I can't good conscience spend 10 years of development dedication toward Parks so people don't have to walk into a certain building or people can go to a Firearms class that's not what that money is for it's for Parks and Recreation to add complications to it further I think you could argue that hunting is a recreational activity for a lot of people in this community specifically and as someone who ran facilities in another Community uh that was part of the argument like Park dedication was going towards building a community center in which people could gather uh because that's part of how people recreate as well so when I go to my family reunion that that's an opportunity for recreation when I go to my service organization meeting when I go to my my Zumba class uh th those those are all different ways of recreating not just out outside on a place ground or on a field and If This Were 10% of our Park dedication funds I would accept that argument but we've spent $60,000 on a playground and we're going to spend 5.2 million on a building that's not a park but it's in a park but it's not serving that same recreational need I feel like our priorities would be out of skew to allocate resources in that way so I do want to just refocus our conversation a bit sure so this is not by any means the final design so what we need to walk away from tonight is an ability to understand your priorities so we can go out for construction documents and then we can get some more final numbers as part of the bidding process what I'm hearing is the building is a priority as well as the playground and potentially figuring out a plan where we can lower maybe some of the pavement costs and still prioritize the play ground as well of the building might be able to get through something that we're all Meeting those needs as well as the fieldwork and everything as well so as far as what we go out for construction documents for it sounds like it's scenario 2A plus a playground and then we you would we would still bring this back to you and if it's still no on the building yes on the playground we can still do that is my understanding but I think as far as what we need to go for for construction documents I'm hearing we need both and then we'll make a to be determined on what does move forward so so we don't have to make a decision tonight on the playground versus the building but I think we do need to make a decision that those are the two priorities that we want to do construction documents for is that accurate can I ask a question I just I don't want to waste more staff time and more time with our consultant and more money I mean if this is what our pricing is and we've been working on this for over a year so I don't know how if you bring that back which I think is is wonderful I don't how big of a difference is it really going to be like well presumably we're going to need the construction documents for all of it at some point so we'll just be doing some more of so so in the bidding process this these are estimates yep you know so so we've looked at what we think is going to happen they now educated assessments so lots of experience but also when we go out for bid and those things that can change so we can bid bid with Alternatives and then that gives us options because sometimes and we've experien this the bid comes in way lower than we thought and if we had had those Alternatives in there we could have gotten a whole lot more than what we asked for uh and and so for example with the building there might be ways that we can design the building so we get something but maybe we wait to for lack of a better fr to put the curtains up until later but we get the structure so that we can at least do something in it uh or maybe it's the smaller building so that we have bathrooms like right now bathrooms are really important if you're activating a playground in today's world those families are bathrooms become pretty important or portons you're paying for them you got continued exp phasing elements of the playground or phasing you know so we do we do the little kid playground or the you know there's lots of different ways to address your question in which you can play with the timing of it creating Alternatives in order to achieve your funding goals uh and then when you go out for bid documents sometimes they surprise you yeah so I think that's what I'm trying to I think what I'm hearing right now is building and playground are there's reasons to prioritize both um and so I think it would be a waste of time to not go with construction documents that has both because we can always say we're not doing the building right now we're just going to do the playground I mean correct me if I'm wrong Gabby but yeah actually the playground is the one we have the best number for we got quote from the vendor so that's pretty solid but the building is one that's variable in terms of the bid and then the parking lot in terms of what we can I just give a couple minor notes on the playground could you go to the slide that showed the 5 to 12 year old version and I will note there were some adjustments that the parks and trails commission would wanted to see to this and there's still time to update that but EXC okay so first one is it would be nice to have multiple different kinds of slides rather than them all being the straight shoot type like in Central Park of Maple Grove they have one where it's like a series of like roller bearing so whenever I went to that park with my kids they like to do the different versions of the slides on that same Hill so so rather than have I think there's maybe two you could have them be two different styles and then the other thing was the bridge I don't think you can see both of them super clearly here if these two Bridges if those can be different from one another as well like if one of them can be like the loose plank style that rattles when you run across that can be really fun for kids that this the stationary ones aren't and then it's more fun to do a circuit so just a couple minor points hopefully it doesn't change cost much and I'm assuming when if we were to proceed with these documents that's when we'd get more of a breakdown on maybe how we could phase a playground what like more a itemized breakdown of the cost of the playground could select specific equipment that's isolated okay mayor can I just add two comments that I'm hoping will help reframe some things and not extend or complicate things just just looking at the scenarios from their cost estimate it's about 2.8 million roughly for the building so we're talking about that as like a placeholder it looks like you know 5.3 because that's the base cost but a lot of that's in the infrastructure and the underground stuff so a full building as proposed is 2.8 and then a half building is like 2.2 so that just gives you some on the economy of scale that if you you have to commit a little bit earlier but you really it's advantageous later so whether that helps you or not that's a big difference in scalability and there's probably something so we can they can work with the architect on in terms of do you build a shell and then unfinish stuff to your point it might save a l it's it's going to save in the 10 15% range I would project not that but to me it's hard to pay 2.2 million for a 22,000 foot building so I just want to throw that out there for context because you do get some serious scale so to your point almost even expanding the building you're going to get some scale if you actually commit to a building Food For Thought uh the other point that I believe I just want to make sure it's clear right now we're proposing like one contract for the site improvements infrastructure and a separate contract for the building itself like and that's really to realize like the overhead you pay but they're two different builders that essentially do that so I don't know if this help or not but you could almost we know we want to do something this year you could almost bid out the site plan get your number realize your number is better or we have a lot of new data or we got grants or we fund raise and then you could immediately pivot into that design and you'd almost kind of start the process this year and then maybe the building gets added next year I don't it's not tipping the scale but that's how we can be creative in the timing keep things moving if moving this year is a priority that maybe a suggestion we can do because they is being set up as two separate contracts so it's pretty simple to or you just bit them out both but it's real easy to peel other contract but just food for thought and and another layer uh if and when we do build a building you shut down the playground in the splash pad for the window of time so that could mean for an entire summer uh be because you're having to for the safety of the site uh so so the timing of that matters too like how it's you know if if if we do the building later at some point it's going to impact the operations of the other sites because of the construction the safety of the site um and I experienced that in Shaka in Lions Park that it impacted a lot of other things when we shut down s Venture I wasn't expecting it to have so much impact uh and so trying to get as much of it done at once as you can that there a value there that's hard to quantify right and I did this is another one last side no close uh I do want it feels like the costs are going up but I just wanted to highlight you know our the team here worked really hard to remove the turn Lanes we work with yeah that were required with the first phase got deferred by henip County to the second second phase uh which means which means what's the second phase so that's a half a million dollars right there uh so keep that in mind that if we do carve it up small they might come back and attach a $500,000 so this is a lot of moving Parts we're spinning a lot of plates I realize that but I don't want to credit our team for that effort it's really it's it's it's not only technical it's relationship driven it's it's it's it's there and that's a real you know placeholder for half million that's really good yeah that's right so if you do small enough extension projects maybe you never get to phase two I they phase it as phase two so and if they have new personnel there that's subject to change so not just again making sure we're all having the data to make sure quick question for some of these other Grant options that we want to explore and I'm I'm anticipating I would like to go back out and reach out to um representative Morrison about similar application that we did in the past with representative Phillips do we need to get Council or have we done Council approval for that and if so we should maybe get that on an upcoming agenda so we have I wasn't here when previous Grant proposals went forward we ran so I think we could handle it two different ways and John can validate this uh one it could just be Direction right now if Council were in favor that uh since you have led the charge you could work with staff to help us or if there were other interested parties that wanted to be part of that but for us to just say let's do that rather than uh slow the process for Grant you know so like JCB and I cranked out a grant in like six hours uh because we hit the timeline that would be an example in which Council empowered us to be able to do it uh that might be the would you want a motion on that or just uh do is this like blanket for any Grant is this a specific Grant at least four um Community Project funding grants okay for the federal government and uh I know of at least one significant DNR Trail grant that I'd like to go for the outdoor W one on that it might be good to prepare a resolution just so so there's a there's a tracking for it um so we could bring that back at the next meeting okay I'll make a motion to direct staff to do that second all those in favor say I I so then um how do we feel to wrap up this discussion with scenario 2A plus a playground for the purposes of the construction documents to bring back for a final decision I with it everything died on me up here what's 2A with 2A would be you can just go to 2A for me two the full building minimum paav parking lot and then we would the playground for the um we would change it to add the playground there would be no Splash Pad but we would still be doing Trail and all the rest of the site work so that includes the soccer field leveling too I will defer to Gabby yes okay would this be gravel a smaller I think that's what we're going to have to be creative with yep so this is the hybridized idea this is the hybridized idea to figure out where we can be creative with the parking lot to try to bring those costs down so we can prioritize the playground I and get more real get real number real number I would say too if we're going to look at priorities I would say playground is a priority and then the building because I agree with Jeremy about the funds from the park dedication I think that it should be specifically geared towards Parks and Recreation do you have feedback in terms of phasing the playground so that we get something cool in and then potentially enhance it in the future start with the coolest things first okay playground going up in its entirety so so instead of the full meal deal for the playground like as much of the playground as we can get uh actually that's a very good question because the diamond L Regional Trail would navigate through it with the current alignment that was worked with three rivers on was any of it movable I'd like to remind that it is a 25 30y Old I'm just trying to we're thinking of of phasing if we have something that's less beat up does it make sense to get the newer stuff for the stuff that's more beat up and then as the less beat up stuff gets more beat up then replace that I don't think you can move any of those things maybe not guess right and there's safety concerns for some of it right now you can't pull those up without you're sticking more money into fixing them to move them than yeah I think we we can find a solution I think that would not involve relocating because those things are anchored I'm going to put the confidence hat on say come up with a solution yeah I'll move to direct staff to craft a hybridized version of 2A that prioritizes the playground then the building by deprioritizing parking and other possible cost savings for the purposes of getting refined estimates and construction documents I'll second any further discussion I will add um had a really good point and now just compl um can I ask one follow-up question sure uh with the deprioritization of the parking lot I just want to make sure that we're meeting is the standard paved or we would I I just want to make sure like yeah I'm gonna have to look at it so just that's where saying we get as creative as you have to be yeah um I think we'd have myself two more seconds try to remember what I was thinking of had to do with this Flash Pad um oh are we at any concern of losing the splash pad dedicated Splash Pad funding if we're delaying that out further we're we're going to be having a conversation with them on Tuesday Mr Mayor so we can revisit that okay you'd still be stubbing the utilities which would have some cost I just don't want to lose it and if it's oh it's okay to push it out 2 years but now years then we know we're to try to that's maybe the next thing we do after so I got one more question the soccer fields the cricket pitch the what's the pickle ball pickle ball thank you there's not much excavation that needs to be done over there correct [Music] not enough to cut enough that makes this easier for us I just that would be the last the last parcel I would do I I I agree and I I see the playground in the building as the same priority in my mind I don't want to put one in front of the other I think the year round stuff the stuff that I get are people that didn't fill off the survey and you said most of the survey was younger families those kind of things are respect them all I just that playground and and that building are are I think one and the same so it uh I I come from like I said Maple Grove and that Community Center did so many things but again the the evolution of that was come out of the gate with basketball courts and indoor hockey arena lockers a pool and then a fitness company that rent ented from the city and that whole complex was paid for in four years didn't even hardly need bonding if I remember Terry just way and stuff we're building something a fraction the size and stuff and I just I see the the playground in the in the building at the same level and then again I'm wishing so much that build this and then the community just comes together and everything else comes without having to do more funding or anything is just you know the dream I had was hey I'll build a building if I can put my name on it you know what I mean it would get naming rights all that stuff I just I like I like what you're doing Natalie of of well it coming clear I I'm just talking a lot no what I'm saying is scenario 2A with revisions so you guys have done a good job us for the record M Varian Camp please do not suggest that we'll do an ice arena here I'm out as as long as our ice live there done that not doing that you want to build Ice Town in Cork outdoor our outdoor ice is freaking awesome and it is something I would never want to build a roof over so pretty cool um okay so we do have a motion in a second and all sorts of context yep all those in favor say I I I opposed thank you guys for putting up with us thank you thank you all righty we good to continue on with 9 a or does anyone need a break let's go okay n have a public hearing um do is there any presentation want to do before the public Tammy's here and we'd like to invite her uh to chat Mr Mayor and thank her for her patience as she about our parking our PL our parks and trails and so thank you and while she's been sitting there she's got all our finances figured out so Mr mayor council members so the purpose of this public hearing there's two resolutions before you this evening there's a resolution approving a capital Improvement plan Capital Improvement plan in this case relates specifically to Municipal facilities under state law in order to issue bonds to finance um Municipal facility improvements including land acquisition for potential Civic campus and the Public Works um Improvement it requires a public hearing which was noticed and I don't know the open it'll be held this evening and then following that there is a resolution to approve the capital Improvement plan and the capital Improvement plan it's sometimes misleading because you have a capital Improvement plan when you think of it in this case it refers specifically to this document and this document includes a not to exceed amount for the bonding and that not to exceed amount the night's getting late so I got to actually look so I don't miss quote the amount I think it's 4.7 million um is they not to exceed a mon the approval of this plan following the public hearing does not mean that you issue these bonds simply gives you the authority at a later date to issue these bonds so that um following the public hearing I would recommend approval of this plan and then I think there speak now to the other resolution the other resolution relates to call for the mayor however you it we have a lot a let's do the I'll go ahead and open the public hearing get that out of the way and give the opportunity is there anyone online oh yeah comment out of curiosity close the public heing we have a second second all those in favor say I I all right um and then said we have the there's the resolution approving a capital Improvement plan and giving preliminary approval to the issuance of capital Improvement bonds I do not have the resolution number but someone have that number I'm trying to get there Mr thank you 20251 thanks 11 any questions on it from Council understand the philosophy that Tammy was talking about it's kind of similar to what we did with um our our tax rate this year where we set the higher not to exceed and then did the refining afterwards and I was pretty happy with all that turned out I had a question on page 474 of the PDF the header resolution 2025-the following the public hearing the shorter resolution authorizes the maximum principal amount of 4.7 million to be issued under Capital Improvement plan for land acquisition facility Improvement the 6,450 which is the resolution I haven't spoken to yet that would be off raising and that is not not to exceed amount that's the 650 that's plan for the series 2025 so I don't have your packet so I can't speak specifically the resolution that is the subject of the public hearing would authorize 4.7 up to 4.7 okay so is the total we would be potentially going for the 6.4 or the 4.7 plus the 6.4 so the total um plan the public hearing is subject to the 4.7 okay the series 2025 a bonds which will be a separate resolution the current plan is the principal amount of 6,450 related to the CIP which is sub public hearing the planned amount is currently less than that it's planned that it would be 4,695 so of the 6,450 4,695 would be related to the capital Improvement plan which is less than your authorized amount should you approve the resolution of 4.7 that's just to give some room in case things would change but I want to point out ultimately because I know you're in discussion on the use of these funds you may choose to issue none of that a portion of that this action before you following public hearing you authority to have those discussions thank you and and to reiterate this this sets the not to exceed amount and then by March 13th when we meet on March 13th that's when we'll set the actual amount uh based on you know we're refining we're continuing discussions uh about what would be included in that amount and Council will be making some decisions about yes we want to proceed with this strategy or no we don't want to proceed with that strategy those decisions have to be made on March 13th that's when we set the final amount okay thank you any other questions otherwise I'll entertain a motion to approve resolution 2025 uh-1 either one of them go Nichols and baron camp with a second I don't know why sounds good what's that you're can have the next one there you go flip it around I'm going to disagree with that one um all those in favor say I I I okay and then uh is there any questions on the next one I think Jeremy you've got yours answered m a lot of work thank you good job hold my comments unless there are questions I certainly there was a lot of information in your p um the next one is the resolution providing for the issuance and sale of approximately 6,450 General obligation bond series 2025a as Jay noted there will be time for you to determine what that final amount will be and the only thing else I have before I not the actual sale date for the bonds will be March 27th Norland on behalf of the city will take bids that morning at 10:00 a.m. and that evening at the regular meeting of the city council will be present to present those bids and there will be a resolution for you to award that St sounds good do we need a public hearing on this one do not need a public hearing on simple majority um just a consideration of the resolution I will uh entertain a motion to approve resolution 2025 d block so move Fair care M would you like to Second go ahead second nich thank you all those in favor hi I perfect C thank you I will see you in March see you for everything you do thanks for your patience all right stick your to once in a while fun Reading part um city council will be going or be entering into closed session the city council will enter into a closed session pursu pursuant to the authority granted by Minnesota statute 13 d05 subdivision 3 C3 in order to develop and cons are an offer for the purchase of real property specifically the properties uh to be discussed are p 26119 23136 and p ID 23119 23341 we are close call the meeting back to order uh the city council just adjourned from Clos session in the session the city council discuss the development of offers or counter offers for the purchase of real property the properties discussed were p 26119 23136 and p 23119 2334 00001 staff and the City attorney have been given Direction and with that we will move on to staff reports we have three on there uh yes Mr Mayor so first I just want to provide you an update on the classification and compensation study so there was uh we had talked about bringing forward a flight implementation plan at today's meeting uh I hit pause on that and the reason is because on January uh 29th uh we met in here during a lunch and learn with staff to discuss how the compant class was going and um what I realized is as I had given Direction I wasn't as clear as I thought I was and so not every employee had an opportunity to talk with their director about the job descriptions and so I wanted to make sure that that happened so we hit pause on implementation that's happening now all the department heads are are discussing uh job descriptions with employees just a reminder in terms of that process every employee filled out a a job assessment questionnaire so they established a baseline in terms of what they thought their job requirements were and then the department heads refined those job descriptions so it's the city's prerogative and we do that through our department heads to we decide what the work is that we want for each job description and so that's why they come before council at some point for approval because Council approves our jobs that we have uh the way that we're operating the department heads are clarifying what they see operationally and strategically is important for each job uh what they're doing right now is clarifying those job descriptions with the employees if we identify anything that's really important department heads will let me know uh and by February 28th and will correct anything that department heads feel is necessary to correct with job descriptions uh and that gives us time for a future implementation the goal right now would be to come back on March 13th with the job descriptions uh with a plan to implement the compon class I don't foresee any big challenges uh but you know who knows what happens with with conversations so the key part that I I wanted to make sure happened was that the conversations were able to occur so I own that I didn't communicate as clearly as I thought and that's why I hit pause because I think communication about this is really critical any questions about comp and class reasonable decision good job thank thank everybody for their input and openness so so uh that that's happening with that the next item with the sign ordinance uh we have uh communicated initially uh with someone who is in violation we're we're a complaints based code enforcement Community uh we had a complaint we responded to the complaint we're in the process of uh seeking compliance we we seek collaborative compliance with those who have a complaint that's the desire uh and um we hid an end pass in which all right we we did what we could and and the person who was in violation uh wasn't collaborating uh and then we discovered that there were some other layers of complexity to it and so uh Mr Thames had identified that to do our due diligence in in the past when we have removed sence it has not been on private property it has it has been in easements and in other spaces and so uh he emphasized that it's important that we overc communicate so that everybody understands and what we recognized was okay we needed to to do that in some instances we also found some other violators throughout this whole process and we had to communicate with them so what we've done is we communicated a a suspense of compliance and as they have uh passed that suspense if they haven't come back back to seek compliance uh then we've communicated that we will remove the signs and they can come and collect the signs as as we coordinate with them uh it's important to note that uh the the reason we have a challenge is one of two things one the signs are too large so signs are free for a certain size normal real estate signs I think a normal real estate sign uh at no cost yeah so the reason that we had a violation was because the signs are too large or the signs also have to meet other standards so temporary signs are problem and we identified that as an issue and uh we are working towards compliance with someone who is in violation with temporary signs uh and that communication's ongoing uh don't know how that's going to end yet so right now the update would be there's an intention unless we see different direction that those who have have exceeded the suspense that we will remove the signs and notify them when they can pick it up uh it I also think it's important that I uh make you well remind you that we did receive some correspondence from someone who is in violation uh and um in Reading their situation I uh seek your your feedback on it but I think staff recommendation would be at this point that we proceed with removing the signs and we let him know that he can either have someone collect them or he can collect them when he returns to the area that's reasonable yeah all of the stuff you guys are doing is great the content of those signs I'm I'm also concerned about kind of the instead of land for sale it's land we really can't get into cont so what are the things with signs that that legally we can't we can't uh do anything about what happens on the sence not at all as long as they don't violate our copy rights right as long as they're within size they can put whatever they want on them generally speaking uh sign regulations have to be content neutral gotcha there are certain exceptions that really don't apply here but basically yes it's got to be content neutral our policy is we revamped it a number of years ago but yeah what what you're talking about our sizing and placement requirements that people are are violating and so we're enforcing that have we copyrighted our logo no we probably should so people can put it on their signs that's a great yeah not bad idea y so I'm sorry content we can't do anything about very specific as long as it's not offensive yeah if it's offensive we we have potentially like but even then what constitutes offense is I wasn't looking for offense I'm or offensive or anything like that I I was looking more at you know possible uses are all of these things that's neutral enough we don't do anything we're not saying it's true yeah people can I'm good thanks get to be a First Amendment issue so it gets tricky I I understand I just yeah I hear you I hear you and anything else uh for feedback on the sign ordinance or other direction I think as long want to make sure that uh we do if we do end up taking the signs in that we keep them somewhere safe uh for them to so that they don't get damage yeah that I do want to be sensitive that he's not feeling well in out of town for a while uh kind of out of his control so we want to make sure that we hold on to those until he's back and then to just that you're contacting the private land owners to in case it's regarding their all the so the code violation notices are sent to both the I they're aware yeah yeah both the landowner because it's ultimately the landowner that we'd have to tie it to but also the contact information that we have from the sign if it's not the land owner that has it up so okay what size sign is approved so um for a typical temporary sign uh it's a 32 square foot 4 by8 um and then you don't need a permit when it's less than you you're exempt from our temporary sign requirements when it's less than four square F feet that would be a typical for sale sign y um and then um so that it still has to meet location requirements but it doesn't have to go through a permitting process it's not limited by time and then um signs under 8 square feet um are exempt from the permitting process but are still subject to the temporary sign rules um but you don't have to pay for the permit or permit review so quantity of signs you can only have one temporary sign um so again if it's ass signed that's less than four sare F feet then you can get around the quantity rule but temporary sence one square that's one sign we do have construction signs as well um again we can't regulate the content but we tie it to the approval of a development and then you can have two signs and then there is not a time limit um not a strict time limit the time limit is tied to the permits that are associated with development and realistically there's probably a combo of those different things that in this case could be done that would get pretty close to what also a PUD Amendment uh So within the Pud uh there could be accommodations for signage we've done that um is it one last question quantity of signs is it related to the footprint of the entire area or the each parcel broken out so I think you know what I'm yeah so the so for the construction signs it's the way we WR wrote the way I wrote the quote yep it is per development so so I think we could be flexible in saying well in this specific instance this Final Phase of the development really is it's own development since it's its own builder from separated from other aspects so I think we could say that that's one development and then once we get into other uh Builders coming into the site for other portions then we maybe treat them each separately uh but like for example T Vera they get two construction signs for that entire development because it's all Rel singular it's one Builder it's one developer I think it gets a little trickier when we have subd developers essentially um what about all the flags and stuff that are going up and such Flags is one area in our code that I'm not that I don't think is content neutral and so that's kind of the workaround so basically we save flags of a non-commercial nature are exempt from the code and that is content right there so so I that's been kind of the one great area of our code where it's a valid workaround for um lard able to put the they're able to put a sign up as long 20 foot flag with is if it's a permanent flag pull they can put up a sign or they can put up a flag um they banner I shouldn't say flag I should say Banner sign so a banner is a little trickier a banner I would say would be 32 square feet it would be a temporary sign um and they also can't do those flimsy kind what do they call the like the the dancing signs yeah like the flimsy signs that aren't attached to a permanent flag pull but they're more of like um I'm sorry I'm struggling with words kind like tarp stretched over like the yeah they're like these teen these dinky poles in the ground but they're very temporary in nature those signs or those flags wouldn't be allowed but it's if it's attached to a permanent flag pull then I believe our code does say that that's exempt so um Sor yeah so that's been kind of one work around for lar and py uh to still stay in compliance with our sign ordinance still for what it's worth hasn't I haven't heard many complaints about actually I I I I I'm the one that's complaining probably fair enough yeah I I don't love it either not shy I don't love it either but it's better than what it was before the ones that bother me are the four big ones down in lar I mean they're four tall 20 foot tall and then we've got four over here that's not even on the property that's being developed it's on the Frontage so maybe front of give Dwight a call because I don't know that these are on his yeah I'm sorry I just I hate I hat my election sign second one might sign it sounds like those aren't in compliance so if you could give Dwight a call um and then he can go out and do a you want yes okay since I'm the complainer yep okay Dean bar Camp 9310 back to road if anybody's wondering just for perspective like how big is a 4x8 sign like sheet the size of the size of the size of the corkin sign behind you okay or that that sign that's pretty close no that's smaller than 4 by eight that is yeah one two three four size that's six it's it's a fair size yeah um iy big we've had plenty of people comply with it and be able to feel like there's a visible um aspect for that sign okay anything else on sign ordinance uh so last one for staff reports would be goal setting and strategic planning uh thank you for your patience as we had to cancel the last one as I was out of town um my request would be Council consider uh two different dates February 24th is a Monday uh and the reason I've asked for Mondays is because when we saw feedback before that seemed to work best for the majority so February 24th from 4:30 to 8:30 if that date cannot work that would be the preferred date uh so that we can get moving along uh then the second date would be recommended March 3rd from 4:30 to 8:30 for me the third works better but I might be able to do the the other one the 24th I can't start that soon I could maybe do 5:30 on the 24th but okay so potentially adjust the timeline and that would work on or the third the third is better either days are good for me time is no matter last year concerned so so I hear three out of four the third works best so uh can you do 4:30 on the 3rd or that yeah okay so 4:30 to 8:30 on the 3rd of March right uh and we we have materials I'll send that info uh from our last session uh we've got that translated into spreadsheets uh for for you to be able to think about you know I I I heard clearly last time there was a desire to do some some pre-work so I'll try and get that out here next week uh for your awareness department heads will be meeting on the 21st so I might wait until after that meeting so that that that feedbacks include uh as as we try to refine some of our recommendations a lot of work Jay and department heads thank you for your input I know Jay appreciates and we certainly I certainly appreciate your input too I want to I want to make sure we're collaborating instead of doing something differently so that that concludes staff reports unless Kevin or Natalie have anything John anything you want to share Deb you good good right I just have one thing uh mini mayor report um more question does anyone want remember who was with me on the last commission appointment it would have wasn't me it wasn't you it wasn't Michelle um was you yes okay so maybe it's Michelle now then if we continue with her we have a we have to do her vacancy on interviews parks and trails oh to fil which actually that might work well that would really be cool if she would could do it because you came from there that' be I came from there a long time ago but I would give up came from a lot of places I've done a lot of things so not very I think we're planning on doing the appointment for the 27th tentatively so let's do an i touch base um in between now and then I think we have we have for sure one candidate possibly a second um someone who had filed before and I had said when he called uh to follow up he he'd like to keep his uh file on or his application on file so I'm going to see if he's still interested and if so we'll have two calls and then we can uh meet as a sub commmittee make a recommendation or if we just have one pretty straightforward so good okay good deal anything else any other de I got a few I'm trying because obviously I got to get up at four but um do we have any policy around attendance for our commissions we've we've we've had some people that have been gone frequently since they've been appointed and such is that something anybody feels strongly about or Just Let It Go um I don't feel strongly about it because it's hard to fill my roles oh I know so I um so I do think we do have something in code that says in a calendar year if they miss so many the commission can choose to vote off um but I so at this point the calendar year started over um so I don't think anyone on my commission has missed enough to get to that threshold quite yet um but we um I I love everybody's input and such it just if it's not working out i' I'd rather them tell us now and and we start looking and then go that way so yeah no I think that's and I came from a place where you can miss two in a year yeah that was it and uh but when there's only 12 I mean it's not two is a pretty significant fraction of 12 MH but that's what I mean it was two out of 12 and that you and you didn't have a choice you miss 18% you missed three you were gone yeah yeah no I think there's there's a choice and I think it's just for us we've really struggled to fill the Planning Commission role so I would want to make sure we're like Pro probably give them that benefit of the doubt be seeing three applicants soon just to put their names in anyone want to join the Wetland yeah I I TST on that one of them has a lot of wet complaints and I'm like hey you could be on this one there you so that was number one number two um I I just out of the blue I saw we have a utilities corkran truck says utilties parked out here so that's the new guy MH and he's got a drive home vehicle mhm what about we've got don't we have other Public Works folks that have Drive homes that aren't identified I'd really like to see them identified as corkran Public Works is there a reason we don't list those and I'm not just picking on public works because I'm going to pick on the police next sorry yeah Jay has kind of asked us to re-evaluate that process oh Jay you took my took the wind out of my sales man so I mean we can bring back some um that's one of the things on my plate we've done some analysis there's some options there okay uh it hasn't been fleshed out I don't we've been doing some research we do have some options for basically non-emergency vehicles but we may choose to want to mark them that will probably be a decision by and then when they are drive home take home vehicles and stuff they're driven home parked and then used to come back to the city are they personal vehicles for the people just yeah they're well I'll add that with kind of everything that's happening and even the expansion of the utility department we're going to have to kind of refine our on call policies and part of the take-home vehicle in my mind is part of the on call policy so we can update you on what are past practices and and there's going to be some conversations about what we look like going forward so it's a prudent question we can certainly bring that back to you with more detail okay and then on the on the police side we've gotten a number of new vehicles um so so we've converted some of them so the former deputy vehicle uh s Deputy public safety director vehicle uh is is now over here and it's been marked differently it's marked city of corkin right y that one is so so the old one all those are city of the former detective vehicle so we now we now have a um what is it called it starts with a t what is that kind of it's a SUV to no Traverse Traverse so we got a we got a new Traverse uh as they detected vehicle uh and so that the old one is in the process okay of of being converted uh if that's not complete already uh and so but then do we need unmarked or so some Vehicles we do need unmarked but but I think I it's important for us to clarify why we have certain Vehicles unmarked uh and to be intentional about that so like Kevin was saying like we can come back uh do some analys is for for any vehicles that we have and talk about why we Mark some Vehicles why we don't Mark some others um and that even goes into another layer of it is even plating Vehicles so yeah tax tax exempt plates verus not tax exempt plates I'm asking because so but but but Kevin as he's bringing that up like i' I've asked that question like why are we choosing to use tax exemp plates on some vehicles and not on other vehicles and for us to to do an intentional analysis and okay let you know why we're doing stuff because I imagine sometimes people ask questions and and on the police side if it can just be a ghosted cork police badge below the rearview mirror on both sides if the thing is black make it gray or a slight gray just something that we're trying to avoid any more deer devices on their you know so our distractors we don't want any deer devices anymore yeah we don't anyhow um and then I had one on more but it's late so I can't remember what it was thank you anyone else no anything else so so with the schedule just a reminder February 21st and 22nd is the elected leaders Institute both the foundational and the advanced programs nelisha has already registered you MH uh and so uh if if you got any questions about that drop Nisha a note and she can answer some of those questions but just a reminder that's coming up we'll add uh March 3rd as our strategic planning session is there anything that Council would like to see on a future session that hasn't come up or just steady as we go so I or we can wait until March stry after we've done our Str or at least just not at 11 o' on right now yeah give me a