[Music] how to declare the pl of city council is convened in an open session that all members are present with the exception of Deputy Mayor protim Holmer the council will now recess in executive session and training remade to hold a closed executive meeting pursuant to the provisions of Vernon's Texas codes annotated government code chapter 551 open meetings act in accordance with the authority contained in section 551 071 to consult with the attorney receive legal advice in section 551 072 to discuss real estate matters thanks [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] in [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] for [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] for [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I now declare the Plano city council preliminary open meeting is reconvened in Open Session that all council members are present with the exception of Deputy Mayor protim Holmer and council member prince who should be here shortly our first item preliminary agenda is consideration action resulting in executive session our next item item is consent and regular agendas is there any item a council member would like to remove next item is uh discussion and action on future agendas all right I knew this was going to be a good night we'll take a recess in three minutes we'll start up again thank you [Music] recording in progress [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I now declare that the Plano city council has reconvened in an open session that all members are present with the exception of Deputy Mayor Pro Tim Homer we'll begin tonight's regular meeting with the invocation led by Pastor Kevin F North Texas uh North Dallas Community Bible Fellowship and the Pledge of Allegiance and Texas pledge led by Beam Academy would you please stand for those who are able let's go before the Lord in prayer Heavenly Father we just adore you tonight we give you glory we exalt your name and Lord God we're just praying for your divine blessing over this meeting I pray for a blessing for everyone attending as well as the families that repres was in it and Lord God we just pray for your Divine wisdom tonight dear God as we discuss uh the plans for this incredible City dear God we just pray that you minister to the needs of your people Lord God ultimately we just pray that you get the glory uh out of every word every thought and every action of tonight we love you and we praise you in Jesus name we pray amen Al to the flag of the United States of America stands give you one of my you guys just if you want a blue one tell me I'll get some more blue oh look at that there they go okay do you want a blue one I thought so did you get your what color um oh good I'm so glad all right here we go let's take a picture thank you all right thank you guys for doing this okay y'all can you see everybody oh right here thank you guys thank you thank you very much tonight we have prepared a proclamation in honor of Dr Martin Luther King Jr and will'll recognize the national holiday on Monday January 20th I'd like to invite June Jenkins and the NAACP board members and friends to come up as I read this and then I'll let you say a few words Jan come on up whereas Dr Martin Luther King Jr was born on January 15 1929 in Atlanta Georgia was ordained Baptist Minister and awarded a Nobel Peace Prize for his nonviolent activism in the civil rights movement during the 1950s and 60s that inspired a generation to AFF change with the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965 whereas Plano seeks to embody the ideals of Dr King's dream with understanding over heartlessness unification over Division and fellowship over hostility as a result people of all ages religions and races have been impacted in a positive way as we work to uphold our core values and whereas Dr Dr King taught us to heal hurts write the wrongs and change society by meeting anger with compassion to others while seeking to end bigotry segregation and discrimination and be true to the American dream he loved and renewed whereas we celebrate this special holiday and recognize our responsibility to pass Dr King's Le Legacy from one generation to the next to unite and improve the future we all share I John muns Mayor of the city Plano do hereby Proclaim Monday January 20th 2025 is Dr Martin Luther King Jr Day in the city of Plano and I do thereby encourage all citizens to join the Plano city council and me to recommit to Dr Dream Dr King's dream in Acts of service to others to our community and our nation thank you so much congratulations thank you mayor MS and on behalf of the Colin County NAACP I'm June Jenkins president and I have our first vice president sheresa Thomas and other members of our board here today we are honored that you have recognized Dr King and the wonderful work that he did the impact that he made on our country and the vision that he set for us all continue to propel as we move forward I will just say that we're excited to also announce whether permitting next Monday we will host a parade an MLK parade through the Douglas community in Plano here at 10 o'clock a.m and we invite you all to join us again continue to check social media because it's weather permitting not looking too good 31 degrees that day right now and then we have Chief edra who will um be in the parade as the Grand Marshall along with u mayor Ms and some other members of the council and I'll just leave you with this with one of King's messages that I will ask you and the council to continue to use as a guid and force in remembrance of Dr King and that and that is the time is always right to do right so we impart upon you as the NAACP to continue to use that as a guiding principle as you govern the city of Plano thank you very much thank you J thank you so much we go here we are okay thank you so much appreciate it thank you so much moving on to the consent agenda the consent agenda the consent agenda will be acted upon in one motion and contains items which are routine and typically non controversial items may be removed from the this agenda for individual discussion by a council member the city manager or any citizen the presiding officer will establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests oh thank you Mr Mayor I make a motion we approve the consent agenda as presented second thank you I have a motion a second to approve the consent agenda please vote motion passes 7 to zero next item items for individual consideration public hearing items applicants are limited to 15 minutes presentation time with a five minute rebuttal if needed remaining speakers are limited to 30 total minutes of testimony time with three minutes assigned per speaker the presiding officer amend these times as deemed necessary non-public hearing items the presiding officer will permit public comments for items on the agenda not posted for a public hearing the presiding officer will establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests length of the agenda and to ensure meeting efficiency and may include a cumulative time limit speakers will be called in the order the requests are received until the cumulative time is exhausted item number one public hearing and consideration of an ordinance as requested in zoning case 2024-25 to amend article to amend the text of article 9 residential districts article 10 non-residential districts article 11 overlay districts article 14 allowed uses and use classifications Article 15 use specific regulations article 16 parking and loading article 17 landscaping and tree preservation of the comprehensive zoning ordinance of the city ordinance number 2015-5 D2 as here toor amended to add a new Expressway cor Corridor overlay District which will apply the same boundary delineations from the expressway Corridor environmental health map in the comprehensive plan to describe new boundary delineations for the expressway Corridor overlay District on the zoning map and providing a penalty Clause a repealer clause a savings Clause a severability clause a publication clause and an effective date thank you I'm Christina day director of planning here to discuss zoning case 25 with you this evening this is a request to update the zoning ordinance requirements for development in our Expressway corridors it has an Associated component in the next agenda item two which is a comprehensive Plan update so the history to this item is important um perhaps more than many zoning cases because Plano has a long-standing policy for for regulating residential uses in Expressway corridors and that intent goes back 20 years to preserve land for economic development and maintain quality of life for residents the initial policy included a 12200 foot setback along 121 that was expanded to other corridors over time there were other communities along the 121 Corridor that adopted similar policies one of the um challenges or with that policy was that we it had a essentially waiver language that stated factors including topography Creeks vegetation and existing development patterns should be considered in applying the the setback so over time there were just questions it was good to have that um mitigation opportunity but at the same time how to apply it was really the question we kept running into so we sought a rational way to apply this the city conducted a corridor study um that was scientifically based in order to help apply where to mitigate and where not um that was adopted in 2019 and that included kind of two pieces some amendments to the comprehensive plan as well as mitigation in the zoning ordinance so the eha analysis was required from that point on when any kind of sensitive land use would be proposed along an expressway Corridor we would conduct a study and really that was the development community that was providing these studies to provide additional information on how to mitigate with that there were mitigation suggestions in the comprehensive plan and those are kind of outlined there's a graphic that is shown in the plan and so there were several different options that were provided some of these are also included in the zoning ordinance things like um set setting the use back placing open space away from the highway or uh placing air intakes away from the expressway so what we've learned over time um we've had 10 of these studies come in we've reviewed them and what we really found was there were a lot of standard mitigation strategies that were presented to us so it presented an opportunity for us to eliminate that study requirement the time and expense associated with that and adopt some standard mitigation so we've proposed this update to re-emphasize the economic development goals of the city um it will simplify the process standardize the mitigation and improve Equity of outcomes there's another couple of benefits here that include um the idea that waivers are allowed where warranted that's language in the ordinance it also will help us avoid plan development districts to enforce the standards which are required today so this will enact the a zoning overlay District um the eha 1 and two that are in the comp plan today and impact the zoning ordinance will be transferred to conditional and restricted zones there are no changes to the boundaries proposed at this time this is the map uh as it exists today and would be implemented into the zoning ordinance in the same fashion it does impact a number of uses primarily uh residential development is all that's uh impacted by this zoning Amendment it will also prohibit residential uses in the r the restricted area which is the most immediate area along the expressway Corridor another element to this is we've heard a lot of feedback about parking garages and how they affect the aesthetic of the community as you're driving down Expressway corridors so this would Implement stand Standard Parking Garage uh Design Elements uh for these high visibility corridors to help improve those outcomes so the environmental health map as it exists in the comp plan is being proposed to be removed that's in the next agenda item but just so you know this does have a secondary impact in the comprehensive plan this item was recommended for approval 8 to Zer by the Planning and Zoning commission subject to the comp plan Amendment and no no public responses have been received on this item that concludes my report and I'm available for questions thank you any questions for staff councilman horn yes thank you Christina for the great presentation just for clarification here none of the eh boundaries eha boundaries have changed we still have the eh1 ea1 ea2 they're going to be modified to uh uh be now called um conditional Expressway or conditional Expressway quarter area which was the former eh1 and then we'll have restricted Expressway Corridor area which was the eh2 correct so under that under the conditional we still can have residential as long as the developer has the mitigation factors to protect the residence that's both noise and particulate correct that is correct okay and under the uh restricted no residential whatsoever correct okay when those boundaries have not changed and all we're doing is simplifying the language and making it easier for both the citizen the Planning and Zoning commission the council and developers to work with this that is correct all right thank you okay I'll open the public hearing do you have any speakers there are no speakers on this item okay I'll close the public hearing confine the comments to the council councilman friend motion to approve sorry okay I second I have a oh councilman Smith oh I was just second it God you guys are really fast I have a motion in a second to approve uh item number one please vote motion passes 7 to zero next item item number two public hearing and consideration of an ordinance as requested in comprehensive plan Amendment 2024-25 [Music] comprehensive plan actions and removing the expressway Corridor environmental health map and guidelines of the comprehensive plan and providing an effective date all right item two is our annual request to update the comprehensive plan so we've got a Nifty graphic here to show you kind of where we are and what we're doing uh we have a adopted a 10-year cycle of updates to the comprehensive plan that'll just sort of keep keep us on track keep stuff fresh and make sure that we're staffed appropriately to maintain our planning efforts so in 2024 we were scheduled to look at the economic environment regionalism and maps that was impacted by the prior item and so that's why this is coming to you in January of 25 so here's the timeline we did bring this uh to pnz and on May 20th they called public Hearing in June they discussed economic environment July regionalism then we had a little delay while we were working out the environmental health zoning amendments and that went both of those went to pnz in December with a public hearing and here we are at Council uh for the hearing at the end of the process so there are currently two types of updates allowed under our comprehensive plans ordinance we have the ability to do some administrative updates and that's things like updating facts figures you know the population number things like this so it just stays fresh secondly we have updates that require a plan Amendment and those are before you this evening we've also taken the opportunity where needed to update the facts and figures so you'll see some of both in your packet so here's a detailed list of what we've performed maintenance on again economic regionalism Expressway Corridor as well as a few other items that I will detail later there these are based either on the endof year status action updates that are given to us as feedback by departments that are lead over these items or also the you may recollect that we have been retiring some of the older plans and documents just kind of housekeeping when the Plano at maturity report from 2003 was um removed from public policy there was guidance to retain some actions and so those are being incorporated into uh this document at this time so this is a graph telling you kind of which areas are updated where there's no change and where there are new actions related to adopting the Plano at maturity actions these are detailed in writing uh in the packet um the city has undergone some shifts in policy related to Economic Development those don't necessarily impact the core values of the comprehensive plan but they do impact the way we conduct business so you'll see that reflected in these updates and it does just continue to ensure that Plano maintains a competitive position in the market Regional pillars these updates gave us opportunity to do some things like reflect the new water plan that's been adopted so we've been strongly supported on this regionalism pillar by the environmental health and sustainability Department the engineering department um as well as from Parks and wreck and Public Works uh provided feedback so those are changes to reflect consistency across the city's documents we've talked already in the prior item about the expressway Corridor environmental health map this is recommended to be removed and these Associated guidelines are removed from the comprehensive plan you can see there's proposed updates to the associated items with this sometimes they're kept uh for recordkeeping and because the philosophy is is not has not changed it's only the vehicle which has changed then finally you'll see uh information about the other comprehensive plan updates again actions that were obsolete completed things like that where it just needed updates uh those are recognized as well as the implementation of the actions from the Plano tomorrow report see there are five new actions that came out of Plano tomorrow um and Plano maturity excuse me and the revised action uh in jobs and Workforce Development so with that the Planning and Zoning commission did recommend unanimous approval of this item no public response have been received and I'm available for questions okay any questions for staff thank you thank you I'll open the public hearing any speakers there are no speakers on this item close the public kinger confine the comments of the council councilman uh motion to approve fine I'll second it okay that was nice of you I have a motion to second to approve item number two please vote motion passes 7 to zero thank you next item public Hearing in consideration of a resolution to approve the use and taking of a portion of city of Plano public Parkland known as Chisum Trail at Parker Road pursu it to chapter 26 of the Texas Parks and Wildlife code to approve using a portion of dedicated Parkland as an electrical easement and RightWay for the purpose of installing electrical equipment on existing overhead structures authorizing the city manag or his design to execute all necessary documents and providing an effective date good evening Council I'm Ron Smith I'm your Parks and Recreation director this is in fact the public hearing for a chapter 26 which is required by the Texas Parks and Wildlife code anytime public property public park land is used for something other than Parkland this is for uh Electrical uh Service delivery an encore project it's on one92 acre of Parkland Chisum Trail just north of Parker during tonight's public hearing we need to find two things number one we need to find that no feasible and prudent alternative to the taking is uh would be appropriate and number two that all reasonable planning to minimize harm has taken place now we uh listen to Encore they presented to the Parks and Recreation planning board on November 12th of 2024 the board voted to recommend approval of the the uh taking for this purpose we do have a Nifty presentation that will be uh presented by Encore Mr Chris blitt is here tonight and staff will be here to answer any questions thank you good evening um thank you for um opening up the presentation um we Encore is going to be um doing some updating on all of their uh feeders and uh switches and one of the uh places that we have to upgrade is uh by in um up upgrading one of the uh switches here here right here on Chism Trail and what it is is that we're we're upgrading our switches to be automated to where they can talk to each other between feeders and what that does is that it improves the reliability and the resiliency of of power uh for the impacted community and what what what would happen is if um for instance if if if if if one of the switches or power goes out Encore has to manually send somebody out there to flip the switch and what this automated uh intell ruptor uh switch does is that it speaks to the feeders and then it it reduces the outage time by automatically switching itself on and so what will happen is right there U as you see on the screen the switching location is right there between two feeders uh is right next to the road and the only thing that will be happening is that we will be replacing uh that pole with a 60t u uh pole it's a class three pole and that's where the automatic uh the automated switching uh equipment will be installed you can see it here on the bottom right side of the uh screen and the reason uh we are having to get a easement uh with the uh City on on par grounds one um the existing utilities there uh was installed years ago um and there there's there was no easement that could be found and so we're requesting to uh get an easement to cover the existing uh what's already there and to uh give us rights to put up the intell ruptor and the intell ruptor requires a 10-ft cross arm and what you see currently there is a uh 8ot cross arm and so if we're going to be able to upgrade our equipment then we we have to get an easement with you guys and so the uh the easement is a really small take uh it's only 0.192 Acres of um of land that we're taking that's roughly a 30 foot eastment uh going east going east east to west um I'm sorry north and south and for the right there across the property and so here um the there will be minimum impact to uh the park land uh we we will be only be replacing one pole no additional poles will be placed in the uh Park property all of the uh staging will be done um in the uh Street and traffic control plans and and that detailed information uh will be submitted by our permit team when they apply for the city permit to get the approval to do the uh work and so the the the relocation of the infrastructure of of out of the parks property here moving the uh switch location and this kind of EX explains why we have to upgrade at this switching location um if we couldn't do it here uh then moving that switching location would involve building uh new um infra infrastructure and rebuilding um and relocating some of the um the overhead there uh which could result in um a large amount of uh uh power distribution um outages uh during con during construction and so by using by by putting the switching location here this will have the minimum the most minimum impact to the to the area uh that we're trying to upgrade and so the uh reasonal reasonable planning to minimize harm the existing power lines cross above the trail and trees with no impact to either um and this work will not significantly change the existing alignment everything will stay in the current alignment uh that it is now uh there's no trees there in that location uh so no trees will be impacted during construction all all excavation and and work and construction any um grounds that would be Disturbed during construction will be restored back to its original condition after uh after the construction has been completed and again the uh trucks and Equipment will be staged in the in the road with traffic control plans there uh to avoid any additional and unnecessary ground disturbance and here the the estimated uh cost of construction that is going to cost ENC to uh uh to do this project would be roughly about $80,000 and with your approval of Encore uh plans to get started uh with construction in in February and be done by March um I I don't have an exact date of when construction will start but once it start it will take a minimum about one to two days to be completed and so at the conclusion uh we have uh presented that uh there was no uh feasible or prudent alternative uh to place uh the intell ruptor um in a in a different location uh because if we have to then that will cause for um a for the uh project and construction to uh be um very uh long and uh that will cause power outages and and and disrupt the power for customers and um the reasonable planning to minimize harm is that we uh the easement of avoids impacts to the trail uh it it it a avoid impacting any trees which there's no trees there uh the property will be restored back to its original condition as for just replacing one pole with a taller pole and all the all of the facilities uh that's already there uh will maintain its Uh current footprint and that concludes uh the presentation I'm happy and available to take any question questions thank you appreciate it thank you I'll open the public hearing there are no speakers on this item close the public hearing canine the comments to the councel councilman rck nelli thank you mayor uh I move to approve thank you thank you I've got Rick I got a motion a second to approve uh item number three please vote motion passes 7 to zero thank you next item item number four final public hearing on the proposed General obligation Bond referendum scheduled for May 3rd 2025 good evening Caren RADS Whitley the this is the final public hearing we did have one November 25th we had one also on December 9th and then of course this is the final one after this public hearing I have a presentation regarding the projects she will be discussing uh we need to go ahead and firm up the actual project she went on the referendum by January 27th and then y'all are scheduled to vote on it February 10th the total for the bond referendum right now just the proposed totals $7.7 million thank you I'll open the public hearing I think we do have speakers we do have speakers on this item the first one is Diane Goble good evening Mr Mayor city council City Executives I'm Diane Goble chair of the cultural arts commission and I am here um to express publicly the points that the commission conveyed in our response to the city manager related to the proposed Bond projects the commission fully supports the necessity of maintaining and improving the city's infrastructure with proposed Bond projects for Public Safety streets and Municipal facilities however we are concerned that the current bond proposal does not address the pressing needs of Plano Arts Community as champions of cultural arts we see the lack of dedicated facilities performing and visual arts as dedicated facilities for performing and visual arts as a significant Gap in this plan Arts organizations are increasingly challenged to pre present events in the city due to the absence of appropriate venues so a dedicated facility is critical for positioning Plano as a premier Arts destination the cultural artarts commission um commission's Grant requires applicants to produce 2third of their programming with the city as you all know however the lack of suitable venues often forces those organizations to seek space elsewhere so this creates a barrier to them to meet the grant requirements and limits their ability to Showcase their work locally we suggest that the city explore repurposing some of the existing buildings that are being vacated as a costeffective solution to address immediate needs um also unlike other city services such as Parks and Rec and libraries there is no centralized Department to represent the Arts and to ensure that Arts related projects um receive due consideration in future planning and bond discussions so therefore we recommend the creation of an arts department waiting another four years to include an Arts venue in a bond package will significantly hinder our Collective goal of creating a vibrant Cultural Arts Hub so immediate action is needed to identify Solutions and funding sources to ensure the city's Arts vision is realized I thank you for considering the perspective of the cultural arts commission and we look forward to engaging further to ensure that the Arts receive the investment it deserves as a vital part of plano's growth and appeal thank you the next speaker is Jean Dillard thank you very much I have my Vanna here who's GNA hold my mic so think she'll do a good job um my name is Jean Dillard and I'm back I was here couple of sessions ago uh the last time I was here I was representing my studio gallery and we were talking about the need for visual arts uh in our community this evening I'm coming as president of Coalition of Arts the collaborative Arts of Plano organization cap membership uh includes more than 25 arts and culture organizations in Plano uh both large and small our mission is to establish Plano as a diverse cultural destination through collaboration promotion and advocacy and a number of members are here tonight and uh we're here to uh continue to encourage you U through the bond package to see development of additional Arts facilities uh Diane has mentioned a number of needs the needs are very obvious and I think many of you agree with those but we'd like to have uh some seed development in an amount that um you you see fit we know advancing the art requires the whole Community businesses the Arts organizations you know as well as as uh city government but it's a long time uh until the next Bond program and the needs are not going to go away they're not going to wait needs for more and better performance venues rehearsal space galleries Studios instructional Workshop space and much of the near-term need can be met by seizing on opportunities at hand like adapting uh for reuse existing vacant or or underused buildings larger space needs and uh will obviously require uh additional long-term planning but there are opportunities that we could uh deal with in the very very near term we're very thankful for the city City for supporting the Arts we believe as you do the Arts contribute to the quality of life of those who live and visit our community they contribute to the city's economy and they enhance our reputation as a place to live work and play we're thankful for our existing City Art venues Courtyard Theater Cox Playhouse Mcall plaza Red Tail Pavilion and we're very grateful for the generous Cultural Arts grants program program uh we very much appreciate uh what the city is doing to develop its first Cultural Arts plan and our hopes are that this will Define a path for all of us uh going forward and by the way um we'd like to invite all of you to um our state-of-the-arts presentation on February 13th uh preceding the roll out of the Arts plan so please give thought to how we can partner with you to expand plano's art facilities so that we can realize the full potential for the Arts in Plano we appreciate your support thank you Jean the next speaker is Steve Levine I added 30 seconds that was me I just wanted to test out the the controls I I saw you it was fun to watch hi Steve hi uh honorable mayor uh council members and City staff my name is Steve Levine a 40-year resident of Plano on Jacqueline drive and I am here today on behalf of the nonpartisan organization keep Plano number one and like Jean stood before you at the last bond hearing at that time uh I stood here as a bond advisory commission member and a cultural arts plan advisory committee member to address the need for an Arts related effort on beh as part of the bond referendum I outlined for you a specific need for visual arts facilities and specific downtown solution Studio 15 as an example of what could be done using adaptive reuse of existing buildings with as little as 5 to 10 million in seed Capital which I realize is not a small amount of money I believe most of you agree there is a need for More arts investment in plan and we all know that there are other ways to fund building acquisition including rolling this into a Parks land and building acquisition fund use of tax incentives or hotel tax monies some combination of these may be needed to accomplish the Arts goals for the downtown area of the City however Bond money is a way to get there and approving building acquisition and development seed money would not only enable moving planning forward on building an Arts facility upon adoption of the cultural arts plan later this year it might also entice the Arts Community represented here today and arts supporters to help and come out and support the overall Bond referendum this could bring out significant positive press and promotion for the bonds and a unique group to help out get help us out to get them passed therefore and I and our membership at keep pler number one encourage you to include Authority in the bond program for the Adaptive reuse of older vacant and underutilized buildings for a variety of purposes in support of the Arts thank you thank you any more speakers than no other speakers I'll close the public hearing item five item five discussion and Direction regarding the 2025 Bond referendum projects good evening I'm going to go over a presentation at the start of my presentation just want to mention uh oh what happened to my presentation along the way uh Karen you have a very strong voice but you do have to talk into the microph okay okay two seconds let me get to the very front Okay along the way the city council has asked us to come up with some information before we even started discussing the different projects so I'm going to go through that and then we can get into the discussion of the projects right now the preliminary Bond referendum as I mentioned earlier is $7.7 million Street improvements totals $3 42.3 million Public Safety facilities totals 243.166 Fleet operation facility projects total 45.1 Library facilities total $4.9 or $5 million in City maintenance facility projects total 3.9 many have asked about the debt that we are currently carrying here at the city of Plano this is a graph showing the debt per capita as of September 23 we received this information once the cities have finalized their audits okay so that's why it's stated in 23 as you will see Plano is in the middle of the pack at 286 the city with uh the most per capita is fris go followed by Richardson Irving Arlington and Dallas and then we go on down now the next slide shows you this is the current debt by assess valuation so in 24 and 25 so right now for fiscal year 24 we have $745 million in outstanding debt the 25 number that goes up to 809 we do have scheduled to issue $85 million more in May of 25 the majority of that though is going for Street projects and after that we will be completely out of Street Authority we will have a little left for parks and rack but everything else will have been issued from the 21 uh Bond referendum you will see this Top Line will show you back in 2007 we were about 1.7% we now are down to 1.3% per assessed valuation this is a look of the bond referendums that we've done for the past uh 20 years we've had very good success uh with Bond elections when we've gone out to the citizenry we've only had two propositions that did not pass that was a Performing Arts Center back in 2001 and the movement of the Collinwood house uh also whenever we do this in our Publications also in the actual bond election ordinance we have to put a tax rate impact within all the projects so it does have to be we're going to need to decide which tax rate impact we're going to be putting so I'll show you those here in a minute okay normally when we do these Bond referendums we always say we're going to authorize for four years and then we hold another Bond referendum we hardly ever able to get all the projects done within the four-year time period usually we go into a fist so I'm going to show you two different tax rate impacts one's going over the four years one's going over the five council member Rick ad Deli had asked at one of the meetings for us to come up with the dollar amount hey if we we don't if we don't do anything and we want to go out to the voters and say no tax rate impact your dollar amount that we could issue is 183 million also what was asked if we didn't issue any debt over the next four years what would happen to the tax rate the tax rate changed because we'd be paying off the principal and interest of all the debt that we already have would go down 2.77 now at the bottom of this right now it's $7.7 million so if we were to issue that over the next four years this is just a preliminary number as you saw on the last chart we've only gone up one time when we've gone out for a bond election and that was back during the Great economic recession but we are going to have to notify the public that we most most likely will have a tax rate change so if you issue if we authorize a 7007 we do it over four years now this is on the average home which is $579,000 for $700 the tax rate change impact potential tax rate change impact is 4.85 or $224 at the end of that four years if you go down to 650 million it's 4.18 or $193 and if y'all decide to go down to $600 it's $173 so this is at the end of four years now y'all also asked to provide you with this per year I know this is a very very busy chart uh but this shows you what would happen in 26 27 28 29 to the end of the four years okay this is the fiveyear scenario as far as issuing debt I know we like to authorize for the next four years but usually it takes us around five years I just mentioned we are going to be going out and issuing the last of the streets we have a little bit of parks and wreck left for next year usually though the projects all kinds of things can happen so if we were to go out with a five-year tax rate impact you'd be able to go to $31 million at no tax rate impact if you sold no bonds During the fiveyear period the tax rate change is a netive 3.5 or $162 then I have the other three Alternatives you got the 700 which is highlighted 3.67 C tax rate change for $169 at the very end of the five years 650 would be 2.87 $132 at the very end and then 600 million would be 2.47 1114 .58 cents another way to look at this is what y'all requested what it would be per year so each of these is listed out per year and what would happen at the end of five now this is just a projection hopefully we will end up with uh more on New Growth uh that can hit the assessed property value or sales tax could come in higher this is just a point in time on what we're projecting based on the debt that we have in issuing new bonds over the next five years council member Williams you had asked if we could provide some kind of tax rate impact on multifamily and Commercial we have been in discussions with the Central Appraisal District for the last two weeks of about this there's technically no way their system can come up with a good enough number to give us that would be valid now here's the point on the tax roll multifamily okay we have XY multifamilies some of those what the way it's written is like I don't even know the apartment names but you have an apartment name it's one whole apartment they don't do it by unit so you would have a multif family that might only have four units versus a multifam that has 300 400 units commercials the same way is what they're telling me you got Mom and Pop operations going versus Toyota Liberty Mutual and and it's just their feeling and with our discussions it there's it's unless give them more details on something more specific they're not able to run us a report and I do not have that information so okay okay along with the debt and those tax rate impacts already included in there we do have owm for instance the fire station number 14 you're going to have to hire the firefighters to go into fire station number 14 on this slide this shows you that the current estimated total cost for omm is $6.9 million after the four years of course the biggest one's going to be your Public Safety facilities $5.4 million parks and wreck facilities will need 1.2 the service center will need 338 that's annual costs we do have some one-time cost of $3 million that's broken out there the onm tax rate side of this which is already included in those other charts I showed you is one 1.14 for a 4year and 1.3 for a fiveyear okay this year as the last time you did the bond referendum citizen advisory committee it was absolutely wonderful uh they went on site visits they gave us all kinds of input in your packet tonight they did matrixes where they ranked the individual projects you have one that shows you for all the projects and then you have one by Parks projects Public Safety projects I mean facility projects and Parks wreck and then Street projects so these are their rankings you will see they did high medium and low some of them they even said do not include but this is their rankings that they are providing that you can utilize when you're looking at the different projects also in addition all the boards and commissions were sent out the project lists we went and presented to many of them the Planning and Zoning commission found all the projects to be consistent with the comprehensive plan policies and actions for facilities and infrastructure the Parks and Recreation planning board had no opposition or changes and the cultural arts commission as Diane mentioned here a minute ago wanted to express the importance of the need for dedicated funding for a performing in Visual Arts to increase appropriate venue opportunities I have included all their memos and matrices in your packets the timeline right now submission of the boards and commissions including the bond referendum citizen advisory commission recommendations the third public hearing which we just had and then we need to start discussion regarding the the propositions that will be submitted to the voters city council will agree on the propositions at our next city council meeting and then February 10th the city council will consider the ordinance to call the bond referendum February early March voter education material will be developed and distributed uh early March voter education materials presented to Plano citizens mid-march through April we will start our presentations to community and Civic groups in fact I think we're already starting them in February mid April election notices are published and an educational video will begin to air April 17th we have a virtual Town Hall devoted to the 2520 uh 2025 Bond referendum early voting is April 21st through the 29th and election day is May 3rd now what we have provided in this packet is we've gone in this normally what we do it's no longer proposition one proposition two three D D D D now you do a b c d e f here this is just a draft y'all are to place in order after you figure out all the different projects this is by dollar amount on the projects so and saf for streets at the end of the day this is what that ballot is going to read the issuance of 342 whatever dollar amount y'all decide General obligation bonds for Street improvements and the imposition of tax sufficient to pay the principal and interest on the bonds on this we have lumped uh Public Safety together the next one down is Parks and Recreation once again this is not in any kind of party level this is just by dollar amount on the second page you will see 45 million for the fleet operation facility the next one is for Library facilities at nearly 5 million and the last one is 3.9 million for the City Maintenance facilities now going back in other Bond referendums what we did was we put the Municipal facilities we had Public Safety facilities of course but then the other facilities that had to do with normal Municipal facilities we would lump them in one proposition we are no longer able to do that so what we had to do this is according to the attorney general our bond council's already talked to them they've already reviewed this this is the format unless y'all decide hey I'm going to take out like the last time I think y'all decided you wanted the um Tom muck Center to be its own proposition which is fine but we can't just lump facilties together anymore they have to have a direct relationship to what it is on here so we had to include the city maintenance facility separate and the Park maintenance facility is now included within the Parks and Recreation facilities because it's tied to Parks okay I just wanted to give yall a heads up on that and once again this is the listing in your packet you have a listing of all the individual projects and you have the Matrix is that the uh BRC AC has provided as far as their recommendations what questions do I have or yall have the four do before we get started I was going to just go down the line I was going to start with you Rick just to hear your thoughts on going moving forward but if you if you have a a technical question for Karen um that's probably any anybody that's you know interested in that um Let me let me start with you Anthony thank you mayor so I think in in keeping with what you were saying I'm Gonna Save My Kind of comments but just ask questions on if you have a technical question go ahead thank you mayor thank you for that great and thorough presentation Karen and I really appreciate you including the extra information that I requested um could you remind me are these 20 or 30-year bonds when they're issu 20 year bonds okay 20 year bonds and also would we anticipate that on the normal four-year schedule there would be another Bond referendum in 2029 yes most likely usually we run out we don't utilize all of them but it's just like streets we went through streets very very quickly we we don't have that much left for streets and they will be issued in the next couple of months so even if we were to say use the five-year tax impact number we still probably would be going to the citizens for more bonds four years that is correct okay thank you and then um I also I I really appreciate the the very busy and complicated worksheet in in the uh presentation that included the information not just for that year four but for the years leading up to that yes I was wondering since uh since the the taxpayers of Plano will be paying on these bonds for 20 years is it possible to to run those numbers out you know for for 20 years and say okay this is the total cost because when the residents you know uh you know put that check box next to the item and say yes we want to vote for this they're not just signing up for that four or five year tax impact right they're signing up for a 20-year impact well the the thing is after we issue we have to pay that debt so after we issued the fourth or fifth year what if we needed any kind of tax increase it would go in at that year it's not going to go in 20 years from now I can let you know what the 20- year cost is so well and thank you the reason I was asking that question is just because I understand that the tax rate increase would go in in year four or five but it would um it would remain throughout that 20-year period to keep paying the bond debt right so I mean there would be you know the the taxpayer would be paying that amount every year going forward for the remainder of those we can run that also during that your time period you're going to have debt falling off okay we just happen to not have any debt coming off over the next couple of years so but yes we can we can get that for you well thank you and and also um I know that a lot of times you know in our voter education materials which you mentioned we uh we only include kind of that snapshot the traditionally the year four uh impact are we uh are we I guess this I'm realizing maybe is getting more into a page question but are we legally allowed to include the total cost over the 20year uh life of the bond in in the voter education material so that voters understand what they're signing up for we put in to our Publications now on the the election notice I am pretty sure and I didn't look at it today but I am pretty sure we just put the tax rate impact not the total they have specific language and we will bring the language back on the 27th so I don't know that I I don't Lisa do you know I I know we gota we gotta notate some tax rate Cent impact but as far as a whole dollar amount I'm going to have to look at that oh and and thank you for looking for that I guess I was asking Beyond what's required by state law are we allowed under state law to add in the additional information about the whole 20-year impact or I'm going to have to ask Bond counsil awesome and thank you so much for that great information Karen um and then um I was also wondering uh since this is you know if we were to do the whole 700 million this would be um obviously the by far the biggest Bond issuance or the biggest bond package to go to the voters in Plano history uh and we're in a an environment right now where interest rates are still fairly High um if we issue debt at those higher interest rates what's the earliest that we could call those bonds uh to maybe replace higher interest debt with what hopefully by them might be lower interest debt is here oh sorry that might be more of a more of a finance question sorry about that K we'll find that out I don't know how that's programmed in uh we'll find that out for you okay awesome well thank thank you so much Karen I I appreciate all of those answers sorry for the very many questions and I really appreciate your thoroughness hey um Karen I just have a question about um what was in the public comments today so if um at this point it looks like about out of the 700,000 million dollars 50% of that's going to our streets that's correct with the orange cones on it right so um the other half really is just about facilities um getting repairs done and so on so forth so um the the cultural art commission is requesting some type of facility for um you know for entertaining Arts um so if that was to be considered where does it fit you would most likely put it as its own proposition oh okay really that they did mention this the the Arts we really don't have a certain department for it actually uh my department Karen Davis the budget department does the commission yeah I would consider that probably its own sorry own separate proposition okay it would be kind of like what we did with the Performing Arts um Bond back in what is it 2019 2001 2001 um that's most likely What bond counsel I'll be talking to bond counsil tomorrow and I will double check with him but that's probably what he's going to say okay so it wouldn't fit into any other category slimly Parks and Recreation but let me let me talk to Bob okay but I would probably think he's GNA say yeah we don't want you here Mark did you have anything to say on that one yeah no I think you covered it Karen thank you Karen okay counsman Williams uh along the lines thank you Karen for this along the lines of what uh councilman ricelli was asking I'm assuming these projections for the tax increases are based on current Bond rates is that accurate yes that is correct they're yes Triple A and since we're not going to issue them all at once right up front right then assuming Bond rates come down in the future the projected tax increases would commensurately come down that is correct that is correct as interest rates go down this will start coming down I don't have it in front of me but oh wait maybe I do on we had started out at 5 knowing that the FED most likely is going to start coming down and I think we ended at four or 3.5 but yes that that's correct that all that plays a part in this okay and uh this question may not be for you specifically but our last bond package was or this bond package is about twice what our last bond package was do we have a bead yet on what the proposed bond package for years hence might be no I do not have that so councilman I as you know we did a a staff driven needs assessment for for where we were um the number that came in this year was 1.6 billion at that point part of part of the discussion we had as A needs assessment is needs don't typically go away so they just get projected out for year over-year um so we anticipate that a lot of those needs will show up in the next um Bond referendum maybe not all of them um but there's also the potential for other needs to to show up we will have our Arts uh project come in we also have connect Plano we have a number of of uh Community initiatives that we're aware um that may be seeking funds but at this point we do not have a bead yet on uh on what the totality of that will be okay but maybe the uh outstanding 900 million adjusted for inflation plus new stuff it uh I I think a lot of that is dependent upon where council is and where the community is as far as um as far as their tolerance for that at that time thank you Mr williamss I do have the or council member Williams we started out at 5% because that's what we got this last time went down to four and a half the next year four and a half and then down to four I'm gonna start with you okay thanks great information very helpful to us as always you you guys make it hopefully easy for us or easier to make decisions here uh what one point following up on you know councilman uh Williams and uh city manager Ison comments I think I would say one of the big reasons we have such a big number now large number Street improvements we're we're not a new city anymore majority of our streets are 30 plus years old gets very expensive to maintain those and also replace those and we are going to be do more Replacements now both thars as well as neighborhoods so uh I understand understand that number there and unfortunately in four years maybe it'll be a little bit better because hopefully by then we'll be we'll be somewhat caught up so uh I just want to say again thanks for the information uh I feel good that uh we have had such um great imp inut uh from our citizens to help us go through this you guys put it all together make it very easy you do great presentations you know to the uh to the members of the of the committee advisory committee I just say how helpful how important has that been to you and your staff having citizens be involved and we had a a wide variety of expertise and experience levels you know with our citizen committee how helpful do you feel that that was to to have that oh the yeah the last two Bond referendum citizen advisory committees that we've had they've they've been tremendous absolutely tremendous giving us feedback also they've gone out to the community let us know what people were thinking uh you know what really helped this last time and they were very appreciative is taking them on the site visits when you go and see some of some of these projects in person that they came back and said now we know why you're asking for this that they were very very very appreciative of those site visits good yeah I know I received very good feedback from the site visit to especially to our fire and Rescue Training Center that was that was an excellent opportunity that was a definite yeah great that's that's all I had M thank you thank you Karen yeah well first Karen I'm very deeply appreciative of your effort e and staff's efforts on all of this as well as that of the bond referendum citizens advisory committee as I affectionately call the Burak um the because this bond package is about twice as much as our last one and because uh having spoken with some of the members of the Burak um I know that some of the projects put forth lacked the specificity to determine is how critical is this really right now um but looking through the list of items I'm mindful that yeah all of this is probably necessary and probably immediately necessary and if I look at some of the items to consider delaying we're talking about comparative rounding errors next to the whole $700 million package um all that said this is a drum I've been beating for a while and this is for the rest of council um more than half maybe up to 60% eyeballing the totals of what's in this bond package are for maintenance largely roads we're never going to not need to maintain our roads and repair them but by putting maintenance expenses in a bond which we're faced with the prospect of having to do uh we're going to end up paying ballpark 20 million maybe $25 million extra per year just in interest on all those bonds um one of the challenges I there are two two columns of the tax rate there's the M column maintenance and operations and the ins column interest in syncing that's our debt all of this is going under the debt column for maintenance items which realistically belong under the maintenance and operations column part of the challenge of moving everything to that column is it would necessitate a an election by the voters to increase the tax rate the debt portion of the tax rate isn't subject to um the no new or the voter approval rate because people are already voted on it via a bond referendum what I would very much like to do over however long a period it requires is year over-ear budget cycle after budget cycle start shifting maintenance-oriented expenses whether that's roads facilities water lines sewer lines shift them from the debt column over to the m&o column and balance it all out to a predictable spend so that we're not having Peaks and valleys of Maintenance and and whatever we end up saving on interest it's not going to be the total 2025 million because there are legit items in here that need to be capitalized over 20 30 years like police station um but it may save us 10 plus million dollars a year in interest as we shift all of that stuff to a maintenance need over time and that's a whole new facility $10 million in savings um maybe that has to happen $2 million at a time budget cycle after budget cycle maybe it takes 15 20 years to accomplish so that in the future we no longer have to issue bonds just to repair stuff we're just doing it as a matter of course now I will tell you this all the I see where you're going all these projects that are included in here will live 20 years we do not issue unless it's going to be for the life of the bond so I'll Mr isson might want to comment on the switching over to the OEM it's uh Council as you know that's that's a a council policy that we can adapt to it just has to be the will of the council and be willing to um you know adjust that during budget cycles and uh potentially face uh those elements of elections of Shifting over to uh to the O andm side um we have had some of those discussions councilman that's that's not the first time you you've made your comment um and understand that um I do think it is a long-term strategic discussion that that would be something that Council would have to be very intentional about um for a number of councils in order to be able to achieve uh but understand U understand uh your your perspective and Analysis okay council member Prince thank you and uh thank you for all your work into the great work of the bond committee they make this a lot easier on us by all the hard work that they do so I appreciate that they did an amazing job yeah yeah I'm thankful for their time and dedication on this I will say uh jumping to this large much larger number of uh over 700 thou uh of the 700 million is a a large I think pill to swallow so um I I think my biggest concerns with it are there are a lot of projects in here that are land acquisition and design of new builds and if the um you know if everybody comes back and says yes that's the we have to do that for whatever reason then um maybe we do but it feels like there would be more opportunities for us to use um better reuse buildings and land that we have and potentially um save some costs here versus buying new land and repurposing facilities um so I would just want to have a better feeling that we're really having to build so many buildings from scratch um if we are going to have to place um I know originally this list if I'm remembering correct it did not include the complete rebuild of the um police training center right and then we added that in um that's one that I would want to know if that is really necessary or if that's something that could just yeah now I will tell y'all the department heads are here if you have specific questions and want to call them up okay so is Chief dra here no I know he spoke to us about that one but no he did okay yeah there's there's some um I mean that's a very large one in addition to just creating them their new centers so to me if there's some huge ones like that and we feel they they have to be on there I would want some of those larger ones broken out if we could so breaking out the police uh headquarters versus the training center is two two separate propositions or two separate considerations how yeah because to me the from what I've heard we've got to have the new um we've got to have the new headquarters right that one's um it didn't feel like to me and the the other building is a lot I want to say a lot younger but it is what 15 20 years younger than the other yes it it started its cycle much later after but as you know the the headquarters had several additions so it depends on which addition you're talking about yeah so it's just things like that that I want to make sure that we're um when we go to the voters that we can confidently say we're we have to rebuild this we have to buy new land we've looked at all of our options and we can't repurpose so that one is that one is not actually buying new land that is reusing the existing land over there um the land that I think is is getting kind of um adjusted with that is actually the facility's maintenance building yes um and the facility's maintenance building is actually our former animal shelter so it's before our current animal shelter we had the animal shelter out there near pan Hollow and it it was an Adaptive reuse for our facilities um group to go out there um having visited it with with um you know the condition of of that building it does not have appropriate storage it does not have um really appropriate offices it was designed to be an animal shelter not really a a facilities building so the the issue became um with the storage that's needed both for vehicles for materials things like that as well as the location on the east side of of Plano um the the question became kind of collocating that along with Fire Station 3 um and some potential land that we are looking at um acquiring hopefully in the May time frame um it would be not quite as Central as would be ideal but it would be present an opportunity to also um create an area that would uh also help the driving pad uh and the uh the rebuild of that particular uh police training center by taking that piece out so that's what I understood from uh from Chief dra but if we need additional details we're happy to provide them okay mayor protown oh so I don't really have any additional things to add I just want to say that I I believe if we were to look at the bond referendum um a part of it being the street Improvement if we were to take that out it's actually pretty uh standard of what that is correct what we our bond referendum normally is yes the problem is we we are getting old and and we have to do the Improvement we can't just continue to see orange cones what the mayor calls it our new what what is it our new our what well it's it's our our new PL FL we cannot have that continuously we we we need to be competitive with other our neighboring cities um without naming names um and we cannot do that that if we continue to U nickel and dime ourselves um without looking at the future and we really need to look farther then this five years we need to look 20 years down the road where we have kids who are going to um grow up and have families here and we want Plano to be just like that just like the way we had it when they are ready to have their family so um you know I I understand it's going to hurt but it is necessary council member Horn uh thank you U Mr Mayor and Karen thank you for the presentation I was honored to be able to sit in on the the Burak committees on several of their meetings uh the citizens did provide insightful questions oh yeah uh and I thought um every everything was well represented the the department chairs presented their cases the tours were invaluable so the Insight that they got when they put these list togethers it was through knowledge and information and collaboration within themselves um a couple of observations the biggest emails I get on my city are about the roads you know everybody tells you when you run for a city council it's a it's the tabletop conversation potholes streets it's all that I'm looking at this and our budget looks like we're going to be repairing anywhere between between ballpark uh 8 and 1 12 to 10 miles per year is that correct so that's pretty aggressive and I can't wait till when they finish Legacy hint hint but that being said um I don't think there's anything within that entity that we're looking at those sections there from the alley improvements to the intersection improvements to U infrastructure that's all it's it's it's it's AG ing as uh mayor protim 2 says we're getting old I would like to refine that and say our City's getting old but but that's the case Okay so that's the biggest issue I see coming right now so I am keenly sensitive to the Arts and their their desire for a Visual Arts Center I like to figure out where we might be able to to place that where I see the biggest one of the bigger costs here or actually or two is in with within facilities particularly Public Safety do we need a new police headquarters absolutely do we need Fire Station Number 14 absolutely just look at the data yeah okay uh poor fire station number three it's so small it won't hold our modern apparatus simple as that so we're we're underserving those local residents uh Fire Station 8 that's something on the that we can certainly have discussions on but I'm almost like uh Council woman Prince the fire training facility um excuse me the policeman training facility you know it was built 34 years ago if we're looking at want something to have a 50e life cycle that building's still ready to live another 16 years it should and we should keep that in mind when we build our facilities we should be looking for a 50-year life cycle so when we start looking at areas where we can have potential cuts and when we're trying to look at that that overall Bond number those are areas that we need to have thoughtful consideration my personal opinion A $700 million bond is a that's going to be a tough nut to sell it really is it's almost like you go into the store and buying a a jacket for $100 if it's $9 bucks you'll buy it if it's 100 you may walk away I feel that's what we're going to be presenting to the citizens for a vote but we'll see so again thank you for everything you've done and I'm just passing not on council member rodelli thank you mayor well first of all I want to say thank you to Karen and the staff uh especially the budget staff for your your great work on this but the the department heads of every Department because I know that all of that rolls up into this so I'm mindful of how very much work has gone into this thank you for that and also the uh the Burk act I like what Shelby calls it I'm extremely grateful for their work and for y'all's work helping them uh get educated through this process so thank you for that um I agree that we have to keep our facilities and our roads up to date and you know one thing that has struck me throughout this process is that the vast majority of this you know almost uh almost six sth of it uh relates to Public Safety and Roads and when we do our citizen surveys uh those are always the top two items Public Safety and roads I mean that that's that's what always comes out on top so we have to get that done um you know that being said I do think we owe it to our voters to give them educated choices so one of the really critical things given uh what several council members have expressed including I mean I'll just say several council members I think I've heard it a number of times this is an unprecedented ask it's an unprecedented number uh yeah it's also an unprecedented projected tax impact and um I think that makes voter education more critical than it has ever been because this is you know probably the most consequential bond election in plano's history and and uh because of that we really need to go out of our way to educate voters um I would like to see to the greatest extent permitted by state law uh and I think this is absolutely critical that all of our voter education materials uh and and whatever we're able to put on the ballot include um the full cost of this and and by full cost I mean the cost versus not issuing any bonds not just the cost of not just the cost versus issuing $183 million of bonds and you know as as uh uh property valuation increases allow the current tax rate to absorb that and keeping the same tax rate but the actual full cost of this and then even more critically the cost over the full 20-year life of the bond okay because I think a lot of a lot of Voters don't really understand when they see that year four number that that is not the total cost to them of the bond package once once that tax rate goes up or property values go up and the tax rate is unable to come down as those property values go up however we pay for that Bond debt um that remains for the life of the bond until it's paid off and so if we look at that happening in year four of a 20-year Bond we're talking about another 16 years after that and so I think it's just critically important you know if that's $224 in year four and we and we keep doing that every year for the remainder of those 20 years we're probably talking more like three or $4,000 you know for that average homeowner over the life of the bond may maybe even more because property values will increase over those 20 years as that tax rate is unable to come down due to the due to the bond debt so I just think that's really critical I also completely agree with council member Prince that given the unprecedented size of this we need to break out more items uh this actually was in my planned comments and I was very pleased to hear council member Prince bring it up uh but not surprised because I know how seriously you take debt I've seen that through our our almost eight years now serving on the council together um I also think it's really important that we keep the uh projected tax impact at four years because that's what we've always done and so to keep it Apples to Apples I think that's important I also think that because we're going to go to the voters again in 20129 it's really a four-year cycle and so I think I think that's that that honestly more than it being the way we've always done it is is what makes it critical I think to give them the four-year number um and then I also want to say that I I agree with a lot of the comments that uh uh for example council members Williams Prince and Horn have made uh you know about some of the big ticket items unprecedented um size of this and really the critical work that's been done by our bond review citizen advisory committee there were a number of things where a majority did not not rated a high priority uh some of them only one rated at a high priority some a quarter of them said don't even include it um I think that we I would like to see us at our next meeting on the 27th go one by one through every item that did not get a majority as high priority that's you know there were eight members so if five of them did not say high priority if it was four or fewer I'd like to see us go through those and say is that something we have to do now because there was not a majority on the bond review citizen advisory committee to say that that was a high priority to do that in this bond package so I'd love to see us go one by one through those that didn't get the majority high priority rating of three uh uh by the bond review citizen advisory committee at our next meeting in particular um you know I heard council members Prince and Horn mentioned taking a close look at whether the police training center has reached end of life um I think that's something that i' i' to learn more about given the $50 million price tag um a few other Impressions we've got downtown RightWay uh work for $6 million in here that's eligible for funding by the Tiff uh and and and I think you know that's something I would like to see taken out of the bond package I don't think we should be issuing Citywide debt to pay for things where we're already essentially subsidizing what we're doing in downtown through the Tiff um then that would take it you know 1% it out right less than 1% 6 million but also miscellaneous uh that was rated very low by the bond review citizen advisory committee only $810,000 but every penny helps so I'd like to see that taken out uh I mean I I don't think we can go to the voters and ask for for miscellaneous money um you know $8 million for screening walls I'll tell you I feel like screening walls are very important but only one of the eight members of the bond review citizen advisory committee rated that a high priority so I'd love to learn more about why that wasn't rated higher by the bond review citizen advisory committee um and and and then I think there there are other items again the ones that didn't get a majority of high ratings that we could go through at the next meeting um I also just want to hit debt per capita that thank you Karen for including that in the presentation um the two highest I noticed on that list were Frisco and Richardson which are cities that tail ends of kind of their lifespan Frisco is still growing rapidly Richardson is more mature than Plano is and I think that's instructive because you know fris is probably saying well a higher debt per capita will get diffused as there are more Capas moving in to fris you know population growth is going to decrease that number Richardson that's a more troubling number to be honest and if we're not careful I think you know as a as a maturing City we could be headed that direction so I think that's important for us to take notice of finally I just want to speak to the the Arts I I really appreciate the presentation and I absolutely support the Arts in Plano similar to what I said about the downtown RightWay that's you know the the Arts are eligible uh if they're done in downtown like many are proposing that's eligible for Tiff funding it it's Citywide it's eligible for hotel occupancy tax funding uh given an already historic ask for debt um and the legal restrictions on the use of Hotel occupancy tax but that it can be used for the Arts um whereas a lot of these other areas are ineligible I I would say let's do that but not as Bond debt let's do that with Tiff or hot funds and um and anyway I think also if if it is on there just given that the voters had a prior vote on a Performing Art Center in 2001 and it did not pass um it would be important to to break that out as a separate item so that voters could once again make a standalone choice on that anyway I I I in some I'd like to see us try to trim this back recognizing that we absolutely have to take care of our facilities have to keep our city you know fresh and good have to take care of Public Safety and roads but what are the op options for uh a bond package size that might uh be slightly uh less owners from a tax perspective for resid I want to go back to something you said at the first the propositions they're going to see whatever dollar amount is going to be what's on the screen they will not be seeing that will have to be done in the public education Forum the I want to say the election ordinance where did the election ordinance go you we post them where they're posted on our board and published in the paper okay that's where the tax rate impact as far as this is concerned when the voter goes to the voting box they're going to see this nowhere on it does it have any kind of tax rate impact okay just letting you know and that's determined by our bond count Council right yes that is by the bond Council it's a state government deal state law just letting you know okay I I would suggest if I might that um before our next meeting on the 27th because I know we're getting close to decision time that if a majority of the council is amenable to this maybe we get an opinion from our bond Council about where are we legally prohibited from including the full 20year cost and and anywhere that we're allowed to do it I I would just love to see us do that so that I've got that written down oh fantastic I will tell you this I know what Bond council's going to say as far as the different propositions they just like he said it back in 21 usually it's a good idea to limit it to six or less okay when you get past six the voters just at the end they're yeah they're not even into it anymore so I will tell you Bob will say that so well that's good to know I've heard him say that many many times thank you for that feedback Karen thank you so much yeah I really appreciate all the work not a problem I will let you know Mark already knows this I'm not going to be able to be at the next meeting but Jason gregorash who's my second in command on the bond referendum is set through all the brcc meetings will be here we will have everything answered I will try to call in from Zoom uh anyway just to let y'all know but Bob I will talk to you tomorrow so you're already going to be getting U the questions you asked I will send those out ahead of the meeting okay any other questions for me I don't I don't have any questions I I I do want to thank you for that and I appreciate it um I appreciate all the comments from the council and and uh I know this is a a large Bond proposition um I think one of the things that we we talk about every day is is staying relevant in keeping our roads up to date um and that's what we're going to continue to try to do uh going forward when we talk about roads we talk about sidewalks we talk about U residential streets and we talk about perimeter walls because guess what the developers are gone so now it's now it's uh the onus is on the city of Plano and so these these are things that we're responsible for taking care of if we want that city of Excellence that everybody talks about the public safety uh facilities are are no-brainer for me I've I've lived here longer than those facilities but very very very small amount they've been around long long time especially the police station and uh they deserve for for what they give us back in Safety and Security they deserve a proper um headquarters that that they can utilize and really even become better serving with uh with their abilities for a better facility I don't I don't have a problem if if we want to trim this down to a certain degree I'm I'm okay with that and okay to talk about it but when we stop talking about taking care of our city like some other cities that are are close to us and start kicking the can down the road that's when we that's when we fall apart and you talk about the cost of this Bond Anthony if we don't take care of our city not only will the cost of the bond for 20 years we need to find out what the cost of losing corporate uh companies residences that move out that competely become in disarray that's that's what we have to fight against and as as we talk about we're in a maintenance uh mode here in Plano and we have to take care of a city that that that had a huge growth period and and now is is is asking for us to to repair it so that it'll be relevant for the next 30 or 40 years I understand it it is a lot of money and and I couldn't agree more but I think as as council member horn said we hear more about the the the need for roads and and thankful for our uh Public Safety more than anywhere and Mark can tell you as we travel around the world and and see these companies that are now in Plano that was their number one priority was was Safety and Security and Plano is probably one of the best at it so yes it'll be a sacrifice I think we we uh we can find some areas that we can uh that we can lower the cost but at the same time uh I think we have a real obligation to our citizens our our corporate citizens our city and in total to make sure that we take care of it for the next 20 to 30 years by continuing Our obligation to take care of the city of Plano so I I think it's something that we can uh look at possible sorry Casey I'm I'll get to you a second I think it's possible we can look at some areas that we can cut but but again know that whatever we cut it'll be 20 to 30% more expensive in four years true and and we have to take that under consideration because because as we we just heard the bond issue is not going to get any smaller um hopefully over the next few few four to eight years we can catch up on the road issue but there'll there'll always be needs uh in a city this SI and just so yall know at the next meeting we just drafted this based on the dollar amounts you will need to decide what priority level you want it to go in like in hearing the brcc talk and y'all talk you may want proposition a to be Public Safety that's all I'm going to leave you with okay so you will need to decide that at the next meeting Casey yeah I was just gonna follow up by saying I I agree with council member Riad Deli that um going through some of those items that were lower priority would probably be helpful I don't think anybody on here today is saying there's certain things we have to X off the list today but I do think I at least would feel better in making a decision if we had a little bit more of a deep dive into some of those ones that were rate rated low or had a conversation about you know some of of those the big ticket item like the uh training facility and if if that's something that really needs to happen this year so Council I I might request that in order to expedite the the next meeting and and make sure we make the the most efficient use of time um if you'll go through the the ranking list from the brca um and and actually send me a list of those projects that you would like um additional detail we'll try to get that to you in writing ahead of time and be prepared to present it to you but we can try to get some of that information to you ahead of time to make the most efficient use of time and make sure that as we get to it um we're providing as thorough a response as possible so we'll have the staff members there but if you'll send any any project that you want every y'all have cart blanch send any project you want uh to me we'll compile that we'll get that out to staff and we'll get you some responses and then we'll be ready prepared uh to present the the next council meeting all right thank you thanks Karen Rick Mr Mayor uh just real quick U from a procedural perspective are we going to have a working group before we have our next actually public meeting to discuss what each of us have as far as evaluation from that uh looking at that list how just really just to help educate me what is going to be the next step here are we going to have this discussion in a a public forum so councilman part of the part of The Challenge on a working group is as you know is is going to be um you know the the open meetings and and those sorts of things so it becomes U more of an individual exercise uh along those lines part of the I think part of the the goal of having it um at the next meeting is to have that in that open Forum um so if you have uh other information that you need other other elements just I would ask that that you send that in but I'm not aware of any process that we've had in the past of having councel have a subcommittee look at this in in any yeah if y'all can get us that yeah normally it it's like this normally at the end of the meeting like Mark said if y'all can go ahead and go through those lists and tell us what you want more specific detail or you want discussion about because some of these like youall already mentioned are kind of a no-brainer okay but the ones at the bottom you want more information we can have them here to discuss it uh we can have stuff given to y'all ahead of time and so you can make the final that evening so and once you do that what happens is then all that's turned into an ordinance that you will be approving February 10th well but Paige just told me t uh February 10th is the drop dead date to call an election yes that is correct that is a drop dead we have to kind of get our act together so hopefully we can still do that on the 27 yes and and and finalize it that that okay all right okay thanks um moving on to the next item comments of public interest this portion of the meeting is to allow up to three minutes per speaker with 30 total minutes on items of Interest or concern and not on items that are on the current agenda the council may not discuss these items but may respond with factual or policy information the council may choose to place the item on a future agenda and we do have several speakers this evening um the first one is Michelle zimit and I I will move her in from Zoom Miss simit if you go ahead and turn on your camera and microphone go ahead okay uh speaking of safet I would like to propose that we ban horse carriage rides in Plano San Antonio Denton Chicago Salt Lake City Key West um Palm Beach and many other cities have banned it um for safety reasons the Dallas City Council is in the process of um trying to banish as well they had a 10 to5 proposal and their um their committee is working on it right now um I don't know if yall are aware but um in the month of December um in Deerfield there are about 10 carriage rides from the Northstar carriage ride um company and they're the the they have anywhere between four and 15 passengers on the one forse carriage ride so one horse carrying anywhere from four to 15 people it's a bit Antiquated it's inhumane it's unsafe their horse horses some of them are lame limping they're working horses and they work in crazy temperatures it's unsafe for humans and horses in the cars they're breathing the fumes and they're dodging traffic so there are thousands of cars going through Deerfield in the month of December and the horses are dodging the cars which is a safety issue you know not just for the horses but the cars and humans walking on foot as well as well um we just feel I feel like we need to be their voice um in 2023 there are 20,000 horses were sent from the United States for Slaughter mostly to Mexico and most most carriage horses end up in Slaughter pins due to the cost of upkeep so if they're not working they're not you know U making money therefore they're disposed of I would really appreciate y'all's consideration I know that we are an animal advoc Advocate City the city of Plano and I would love your support in baning this practice in Deerfield thank you Michelle thank you very much Lisa I didn't I didn't ask you go ahead Lisa you can cut that fumble I I didn't ask you how many speakers we had we have 11 so about the appropriate well I I'd like to take that down to a minute and a half okay so you'll uh you'll start with the next um speaker okay Mary Collier hi my name is Mary CER I'm a member of the Dallas Area Transit Alliance I am aware of uh plano's efforts to take money away from the dart system and their uh efforts to take it to the state legislature Plano needs to consider how involved they want the state in their local government um today it's dark but tomorrow it could be your school system it could be a tech do trying to uh bulldo small businesses and houses to make bigger highways um if you invite the state into your house um it's probably not going to turn out very well for everybody involved so you seriously need to consider how much you want the state involved in your business I know Dart is very interested in expanding service in Plano I understand the concerns over how much tax money is going into Dart and how much service we get the way Plano is uh addressing the issues with dart is not okay it's not cooperating well with them and it will hurt your citizens the most vulnerable in your community depend on the rail in the buses and you need to make sure that infrastructure stays in 30 seconds thank you very much Nathaniel Adam we can't hear you Mr Adam you're on mute can you hear me now yeah thank you all right hello plan city council I'm a regular Rider of the bus routs that we have in Plano I use them to get groceries visit the doctor and go out with friends so I'm deeply concerned that due to plano's demands for Citywide golden Zone these fixed bus rots would have to be cut and the planet was okay with this well I'm here to tell you that on behalf of all my fellow bus riders many of whom may not even know that this is happening due to zero effort to communicate this to those who are affected by this change we are not okay with this and that it will be a reduction in service quality not an improvement The Proposal is based on a complete misunderstanding of how Transit Works uh we know that TR fixed root services are more efficient than on demand services like goink because they group together Riders going to the same place so that they can be efficiently picked up by the same driver so I urge the city council to please reconsider their request for Citywide go Service as it will be an inefficient use of taxpayer money especially if the fixed rot services are cut as well it is something that is nice to have but it's not worth cutting all of the existing bus rots thank you the next speaker will be David Sur o hello Mr Sero please turn on your [Music] camera you you have to turn your camera on for us to to hear on Mr sordo when I um move you as to a panelist so you can speak please don't decline I'm going to try it again please go [Music] ahead go ahead hello uh I'm joining this meeting because of some recent comments made to cut some bus routes and potential future extensions of the rail line uh I think that's ridiculous for the service of go link while it being a valuable service it should not be extended or expanded at the disposal of other systems and other routes that we already have Plano is the city of Excellence we should be excellent everywhere thank you the next speaker is Ravi Sub sub romanium right that's me uh good evening Mr Mayor uh esteemed city council members and City Executives my name is I've been a Plano resident for 5 years and lived in Dallas Fort Worth for most of my life I work in business technology and I'm a graduate of the University of Texas system first and foremost I have a tremendous amount of respect for the work that you do here and I'm proud to live in a city that so often lives up to its promise as a city of Excellence it's that pride in our city that compels me to speak today about the ongoing situation with Dallas Area Rapid Transit or Dart Plano is a phenomenal City with thriving businesses and first class Public Works our firefighters and police officers are the best in the country and our parks are second to none 30 seconds are safe are educated and support some of the most successful businesses in the world we have the capacity to be a leader in transit but a vital component of leadership is our service to and uplifting of the community around us so I time for three minutes so I'll cut this I'll make this brief in a word I am disappointed and I implore you to preserve our role as a pillar of the dark community and maintain our financial commitment to Bus and Rail Services thank you thank you the next speaker is Warren paa go ahead okay hi my name is Warren penan I live at 1400 chakota drive here in Plano uh I am also with the Dallas Area Transit Alliance I uh work in Downtown Dallas I uh is my camera on I'm sorry can you'all see me yes okay thank you um I commute downtown every day uh five days a week uh the dart system is very important to me um so as you can imagine I've been kind of frustrated to see U these attempts to claw back 25% of plano's contribution to Dart for us to spin up our own Transit service I like the idea of us getting circulators up through the Legacy region I think that's a great plan for us to pursue but I think this should be part of uh within the dart system itself not us spinning up our own custom thing um and the other I wanted to point out is I keep seeing this number 65 million that was identified in the Ernst and Young report as the gap between what we're contributing and what we're getting back I think it's important to note though that that doesn't account for the silver line and that's going to be a huge value add to Plano um so I wish um like like my friend earlier said with uh the Texas state legislature I wish we could stop pursuing that I feel like nothing good is going to come from that and we could really just buy into the system we have and keep improving it thank you thank you hello uh can you see my uh camera no no uh I don't see uh any way to turn it on well unfortunately uh Texas law is that the you have to be on camera on Zoom was that Dan yes okay try again Dan there you are hi go ahead good evening dear and esteemed uh city council and mayor uh my name is Dan Mustafa and I am a resident of Plano uh so Paul Wan uh the Plano city council representative uh on the dart board has proposed drastic changes to dart's budget allocation uh he proposes to transfer money spent on buses and trains uh to goink uh these transfers would worsen one of the most important aspects which is already suffering of any fixed transit route frequency uh all dart Services could use more funding but taking funding from the absolute core and spine of DFW public transit the trains and buses will make most trips on Dart including goink trips to train or bus stations significantly slower due to longer headways buses and trains also make up for the vast majority of ridership while goink an important but relatively inefficient and low capacity system carries a small fraction of ridership Dart reported in November 2024 that 52.4% of all dart ridership comes from buses close behind uh is combined rail systems at 41.2% leaving just 6.6% of ridership to go link parat Transit and the Dallas Street Car these numbers should make clear just how much more important buses and trains are to Riders when compared to other systems such as goalink dear city council and mayor I hope you can see why taking from buses and trains and giving to golink will lead to cat catastrophe for Dart therefore therefore for hurting its users also drivers by pushing more cars into our already congested roads and highways there are few things we need more than shorter headways and few things that could hurt them uh more than long headways than appreciate it the next speaker is Saia Clark If you could turn on your camera and microphone go ahead hi my name is sah Clark I'm at 1510 Municipal Avenue I'm actually right across the street first I just want to thank you so much for staying late and burning the midnight oil oil for us here in Plano uh I really love this city I've been living here for four years I'm a Texas resident born and raised um and I'm just here to speak on the dart the every echoing basically everything that people have said before me and I just want to express that you know I don't have a car I I use the DART Rail System and the buses almost every day to get by uh to to get to my job to visit my friends and family it's very very important to me that these lines are you know supported and taken care of and I'm very heartened to see the council and the mayor speak tonight so passionately about keeping Plano uh in line with uh modern cities and to be as uh up to-date and Progressive as we possibly can but I just hearten to know that uh that we're also looking to defund public transit when I think the rest of the world has moved on to much greater and you know uh Progressive policies of supporting public transit when we know that uh supporting cars and more more more cars big trucks are killing our planet so please I just beg you please tonight as someone who loves this city and loves this state please do not defund our public transit system thank you so much thanks D the next speaker will be Tyler Wright go ahead sure good evening uh mayor councel and staff can you guys hear me okay yes excellent my name is Tyler wri I'm actually a resident in Addison Texas but I uh I commute often to um Legacy West for my job and uh I'm also a member of Dallas Area Transit Alliance and I wanted to add a bit of a personal touch uh to my experience dealing with go link and bus routing in Plano um I can take the 239 from my my neighborhood and reach the Northwest Plano parking right pretty simply and from there it's a uh go link transfer this is pretty pretty workable um because you know it's still only just a couple miles from the transit center to the office um and I think that works fine um but I've also taken dct's gozone as well as via in Arlington which have more Regional uh microtransit Services similar to what you guys are trying to get promoted at the cost of bus and trains I I've had consistent weight times over over 20 20 minutes um I could go on but I don't have the time I would say before you push this any further maybe try to go from Centerport station to the Cowboy Stadium on a Saturday and see how good Regional go link would work for y'all um what's especially concerning is that we also know at data that uh thank you your your dat rep uh Mr wagan is has been a lobus for Uber for a long time and uh there's data or Dart has usually relied on Uber to subcontract many of the rides with go link so that connection is extremely fishy to us um can't say I'm a big fan of that and I don't support cutting Bus and Rail service or any of the other things other than maybe the Legacy circulator which would be actually really a appreciate it Tyler thank you the next speaker is Connor Hulu hola he wrote a novel hello go ahead can you hear me yeah yes hi uh my name is Connor and um I also wanted to speak about the proposed service changes um first I want to talk about the Legacy circulator idea I've been wanting that for a while so I want to thank everyone involved with the city who's working towards that I think it's a good idea uh I also want to talk about Citywide goink so first I want to say I like goink um it's a good service but I have concerns about capacity um so my brother lives in Arlington and while I've been using goink to get around Plano he's been using be service via to get around Arlington and he's it doesn't work as well it is really long wait times um and it's extremely unpredictable but goink is much much more efficient it's a far superior service to what they have in Arlington and I think one reason for that is because you have the bus um my my bus route I take the 241 goes from and Plano in Richardson a city-wide going can't replace that because the Citywide going takes you from Plano to Plano whereas a a lot of the bus routes get you from Plano to a different city and I looked at the ridership stats the 241 gets 2,000 Riders per day and just I have a hard time imagining imagine how many Uber drivers you'd need to carry 2,000 people in a day I can see how a bus can handle it pretty well though the 241 can be crowded sometimes but doing that on goink I think would be very difficult so um please don't cut the bus service to expand goink expand goink I encourage it and I like that idea I don't think it should come at the cost yeah thank you the next speaker is hen Zabo many hiin if you're there please turn on your camera and microphone go ahead evening good evening mayor staff and council members my name is H Sabo I am a resident of Plano and I'm here to uh I'm here with the other data members to discuss uh plano's recent demands of Dart I'm a student at the University of Texas at Arlington Arlington has the same sort of Citywide on demand service that s city council has requested at Bart however my experiences with Arlington's on demand service have convinced me that this would be a bad value proposition for Plano Arlington's on demand service has long waight times upwards of 30 minutes poor availability during rush hours and long or inconsistent Journey times once for example I had several additional people added to my vehicle to get picked up and dropped off before I arrived at my destination adding an unexpected 15 minutes or so to my journey home this sort of on demand service is less useful and pleasant than a bus with a fixed route and a schedule you can depend on and is not a good replacement for bus service while I see the value in expanding goaling coverage in Plano it cannot come at the expense of existing Bus and Rail service additionally one of our Representatives on the dart board of directors Paul wagan is a paid lobbyist for Uber uh as mentioned Dart has a contract for Uber to provide Golding Services when dart's own resource are unable to handle demand which creates a clear and obvious conflict of interest for wagan during discussion of gring services despite this wagan did not excuse himself from but instead actively participated in discussions at Region very well thank you for your time the next speaker is Marissa Miller Miss Miller if you'll turn on your microphone and Camera all right can you'all see me yes yes go ahead awesome all right thank y'all uh my name is Marissa and I'm a resident of Plano I've lived in around Plano for most of my life um I regularly use Dart to navigate around as well as to commute to other parts of the Metro Place for work and to see family and friends so Plano cutting its funding to Dart would be absolutely detents result to My Life as a Plano resident and as such I'm in full support of full funding for Dart thank you for your time thank you Davis if you will turn your camera on and ready to speak it's Davis boin and he'll be the last speaker that's correct can you hear me yes uh so my name is Davis I live in Plano um I just want to kind of reiterate what's been said I'm not affiliated but I'm kind of just speak in my mind um so microtransit services like goink are able to maintain limited success before they eventually reach an impass caused by their own growth um regarding Dart rep Paul Wagman's recent proposals there's an obvious subversion of DART Rail and bus system um he has said in his own words and I quote we're going to have to reduce bus and probably headways on rail um I think this is unacceptable again the proposed increases to microtransit emphasize go link um which is contracted with Uber as everyone has already said um Wan is a lobbyist with Uber through his lobbying firm Winstead PC um obviously this is completely unacceptable as well um so many people in DFW including myself have spent years relying on Dart to get around whenever obtaining a personal vehicle is unfeasible 30 seconds it can easily accommodate low-income families and individuals um disabled citizens um well there are plenty of problems with it's obvious that private Enterprise is not the answer in fact there are plenty of arguments to be made on Dart accessibility through land use laws um car Centric infrastructure Etc the lack of walkability combined with inconsistent punctuality of Dart Services particularly rail makes it incredibly inconvenient um their purpose of public transit is to accommodate the people's needs um appreciate it thank you yeah thank you any more well interesting last hour here Plano plano's been working to obtain a a value of Transit analysis since 2019 this did not just happen recently Dart has resisted producing this study for two legislative sessions we just asked for the analysis Dart finally commissioned Ern young to produce a study in 2024 and the eron young report highlighted a significant subsidy with 65 million of plano's 109 million contributions subsidizing the system Plano hopes to resolve this inequity locally Plano remains committed to providing Transportation options to our residents and visitors however Dart must take meaningful steps to correct this inequity thank you there being no further business we're adjourn [Music] so if you have a passion for solving cases and serving Justice plan OPD is where you should be thanks for watching this episode stay tuned we'll have plenty more to come for now I'm Stacy Rogers this is labor of love with the city of Plano [Music]