This transcript features **Mayor Charles Cadenhead** presiding over the meeting, with presentations from **John Slack** and **Mark Hogy** (Urban Land Institute), **Director Jason Stoopa** (Economic Development), **Nate Stanley** (City Engineer), and **Nicole Miller** (City Administrator). [00:00:00] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** ...for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Uh, we do have an item on the regular agenda that we will be pulling and continuing at a future council meeting. We'll pull item number three of the regular agenda. So that will decrease it to two items on the regular agenda tonight. I'll request a motion for an amended agenda. [00:00:25] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** Motion to approve the agenda as amended. [00:00:27] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** Second. [00:00:29] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** We have a motion and a second for the amended agenda removing item number three of the regular agenda. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. [00:00:35] **City Council (In Unison):** I. [00:00:37] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Agenda is hereby approved. Um, don't believe we have any presentations this evening. Has anybody stepped up with any public comments or inquiries? No. Skipping right along. The consent agenda tonight is: approved payments and disbursements; accepting donated funds from Equity Lifestyle Properties and Simron Park; accepting donated funds from the fields at New Perspective; approve Lake Deontville and Olsen Lake Association grant requests; approve Lake Jane Association grant request; approve pay request number one final for the 2025 striping project; approve pay request number one for the 2025 mill and overlay project; approve pay request number two for the 2025 crack seal project; approve request number two for the I-94 lift station and force main improvements; approve pay request number two for the Reed Park parking lot improvements; approve pay request number three for the Stillwater Area School District utility improvements; approve pay request number five for the 2025 street and utility improvements; approve release of warranty security for legacy at Northstar fourth edition; approved to hire administrative assistant public works for public works and fire department; approval to hire building instructor; approve 2026 pay scale; approve 2026 paid on call pay rates and approve east metro training facility amendment joint powers agreement. I'll entertain a motion. [00:02:15] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** Motion to approve the consent agenda. [00:02:18] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** Support. [00:02:20] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** We have a motion and a second. All those in favor of approving the consent agenda as read, please signify by saying I. [00:02:25] **City Council (In Unison):** I. [00:02:27] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** All right. Moving into the regular agenda. I'm happy to ask the local U group from ULI that came and worked with the City of Lake Elmo on... give our TAP presentation. It should be all queued up for you there. Just go ahead. [00:02:40] **Director Jason Stoopa:** Just wanted a quick intro. This project is something we worked on for several months getting it set up and then obviously here for two and a half days with some really important questions that we asked of the group and we're really excited to present this to the group, council, and everyone watching today. Also want to add that this is a first step of developing the 180 acres and this will continue to come back to planning commission, EDA, and obviously the council. So, just really excited to share this with everybody today. [00:03:10] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Thank you, Director. [00:03:12] **John Slack:** Good evening, Mayor and members of the City Council. I'm John Slack, representing Urban Land Institute this evening. [00:03:18] **Mark Hogy:** Mayor, members of the council, I'm Mark Hogy, also co-chairing with John for the TAP panel. [00:03:25] **John Slack:** Great. Um, just for ease of getting through the presentation and getting to the recommendations, I'm going to skip ahead a little bit here in the slideshow. So, sorry about that. Don't mind me. Here we go. All right. Um, a lot of the information that I passed through is just really information about Urban Land Institute, our process, you know, what led up to being here in Lake Elmo, and then subsequently some of our analysis. A lot of that information you'll find in the final document that should be sent to you here shortly for your review. So I'm going to start with the guiding principles... [Slack continues detailed presentation on maximizing community benefit, rural character, design standards, and market responsiveness]. [00:08:45] **John Slack:** ...This is a really simple diagram, but it just really starts to identify how the 180-acre site potentially could start to make some connections to your new athletic complex site. And with that, I'm going to hand it over. [00:09:15] **Mark Hogy:** Sure. Again, my name is Mark Hogy and I and a couple of others on the panel are developers and so we kind of viewed our job as making sure that we could ground the designs into reality and look at market feasibility... [Hogy continues presentation on land values, property tax projections, and infrastructure phasing]. [00:15:30] **Mark Hogy:** ...and work through your budget in terms of how much you want to invest in infrastructure before the first development occurs. And with that, we'll kind of stand for questions. [00:15:40] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Thank you, Mark and John. So, I know that Council Member Holtz and I sat in on the preliminary presentation. So, a lot of this is what we went over before. So, I'm going to open the table to my other council members for questions that they may have regarding your report or study. [00:15:58] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** So yeah, I'll just ask a little bit about... it was actually the slide you skipped over with some of the financial tools. So I guess maybe just my first question is as you guys were going through this process, do you even feel like some of those financial tools are necessary for this development or is that something we don't really even have to consider in the first place after running the numbers coming up with that design? [00:16:20] **Mark Hogy:** So, being a developer, we struggle with this as we look at each project. There are many developments that are occurring without financial assistance from the city. For instance, moving forward without TIFF. And it will depend on the attributes of the site and what you're expecting the developer to do... [Hogy explains the use of TIFF and affordable housing]. [00:17:15] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** So this study looks only at the property tax comparison between different alternatives. Doesn't look at other revenue or expense that will be incurred. For instance, you know, residential development creates a greater demand for city services than commercial. And if we go beyond the city, we have the school district and the county... and so, you know, I think it's a good comparison on the tax side, but I think if you could take a holistic approach, you have to think about what's the total impact of the development. Then you can make the best decision. [00:17:50] **Mark Hogy:** Yeah. And what I would add to what you said is there is another slide that I believe is in the package that you will receive that kind of compares... [Hogy elaborates on service costs]. [00:18:15] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Thank you. Council Member Holtz. [00:18:17] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** That was actually a question I was going to ask about the incurred cost. Curious because... something that we never had discussed at all was if there's a way to utilize the railroad in a positive way. We know there's a cost with getting the infrastructure underneath, but then you mentioned having a spur on parcel one. I'm just wondering, can you go into—I am not a subject matter expert—ways that that would help and what type of businesses that would be? [00:18:50] **Mark Hogy:** I'll let John comment, but I'll first say we had a client when I was representing corporations looking for sites that needed to receive large coils of steel and the most economical way to transport is by rail. So, they were basically limited to finding a site that had rail. It's typically industries that bring their raw materials in for processing on rail. [00:19:25] **John Slack:** Yeah, I think that's the right answer. But I think for clarification, you know, this information was really relayed to us by brokers who are dealing with those industrial companies that are looking for sites right now. [00:19:40] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** That was my next question was, is that with parcel two? Because it does start to slope upward as you go north. Is that one limited in that regard for a spur or is it just the spur would have to be very short? [00:19:50] **John Slack:** Likely, you know, grade's going to impact the overall length of the spur... [Slack and Holtz discuss outdoor storage and light industrial buffering]. [00:21:40] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** And then the last question I'll defer then to others. I mean, this situation called for roughly 340-350 units of housing. Was there thought to any additional park space within there? Was there a thought that that would create a demand for a specific additional park amenity within this area? [00:22:10] **John Slack:** Yeah, that's a really good question. You know we had some conversations with staff... and it was determined that this site really didn't need a sort of designed park with amenities like playgrounds just because of the proximity of some of the adjacent parks. The thought here was that the connectivity piece was really important. [00:23:45] **Mark Hogy:** Yeah, what I would add is there's a significant amount of green space on the north parcel. It's over 30%... [Hogy discusses tenant needs for walking trails vs. large park features]. [00:24:25] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** Yeah, a couple more questions here. I guess just the first one. What happens with the power lines that run through there? Do they just stay? What's the process? [Hirn and Slack discuss utility easements]. And do you think it would raise the value of it a lot if the city would go about trying to do some of those easements? [00:25:50] **Mark Hogy:** So the overhead lines as they current exist today should not be an impediment to development. Would it increase the value of the land if they were not there? Probably some, but given they're there, what it would cost to relocate, you'd never recoup in the increased value of the real estate. [00:26:40] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** And then I guess just page number 38, the property tax generation. I'm seeing the one with all three of them... I guess just with all that information there, as you're looking at it, what are your key takeaways? What do you think are most important for us to focus on? [00:27:10] **Mark Hogy:** At the risk of oversimplifying it, what this is saying is the tax revenue coming back to the city is going to be relatively the same if you do this mix of uses that we proposed versus if it were all industrial. Because of how the fiscal disparity act is set up... it's going to net the same result. [00:28:15] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** All right. That was all I had. [00:28:20] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** All right, nothing else. I just wanted to thank you all for your time... We had how many panelists did we have that got interviewed that weren't city staff or council members? We had people from the planning commission, the parks commission, residents... we thank those people for their time and their efforts in being part of this study. Thank you very much. [00:28:55] **Director Jason Stoopa:** Just bringing this to the planning commission also to the EDA and having a discussion about this. I think the next step that was talked about is what does the community engagement look like... we'll do a council workshop. [00:29:15] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Thank you. So item number two is to authorize engineering services for the 2026 crosswalk layouts. Mr. Stanley, City Engineer. Oh, I got it this time. [00:29:30] **Nate Stanley:** Look at you go. You said you can't teach an old dog new tricks, right Mayor and Council? Before you this evening with an item to discuss authorizing engineering services to investigate planning level estimates for three crosswalks for potential installation in 2026. [Stanley presents on Fifth Street and Village Parkway locations]. [00:31:30] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** So to come up with these three parts, was there like a city-wide study done and these are the three most important points or how did we pick these three? [00:31:40] **Nate Stanley:** That's an excellent question, Council Member Dragisich. It's based on residential request. [00:32:10] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** I guess the question I would have is... have there been other requests throughout the city as well where it has been filtered through and has not gotten to this point? [00:32:30] **Nate Stanley:** It's my understanding that there have been maybe a couple other requests since the policy has been in place. But it's my understanding there have been other requests that have just kind of died on the vine because they don't qualify based on the policy. [00:33:00] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Mr. Stanley, in your professional opinion, does this estimate provided by SRF pass the smell test? [00:33:10] **Nate Stanley:** In my professional opinion, Mr. Mayor, it does. While a crosswalk might seem pretty simple these days, they carry a lot of liability. On Fifth Street, we have a road that's curvilinear, sightline issues, a 40 mph speed limit, and four lanes to get across. [00:33:50] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** So, I mean, it sounds like this isn't just as simple as putting some stripes down... this is going to be looking at possibly some lights or additional aspects. [00:34:00] **Nate Stanley:** Absolutely, Council Member Hirn, there could be a recommendation for pedestrian actuated rapid flash beacons, curb work, ADA compliance. [00:34:25] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Any other questions for Mr. Stanley? Otherwise, I'll entertain a motion. [00:34:30] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** Move to authorize preliminary engineering services for the 2026 crosswalk improvements in the estimated amount of $22,832 for the intersections of Fifth Street and Ivywood Circle, Fifth Street and Julie Avenue, and Village Parkway and Lower 31st Street. [00:34:50] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** Second. [00:34:52] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Any discussion? [00:34:54] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** I think for the ones on Fifth Street that this is definitely necessary. I guess I don't know if I really see the necessity to have an engineering study for the Village Parkway/Lower 31st. I don't know if that is a necessary intersection for the study if we feel like from what we did out here on 39th Street worked well enough. [00:35:45] **Nate Stanley:** This would include doing the counts at all three intersections. Part of the policy indicates number of vehicles, number of pedestrians or bikes per hour. We do not have that equipment. [00:36:15] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** When would they do their study as winter is coming? I don't think there's really any utility to study how many kids are going to the park in January. [00:36:30] **Nate Stanley:** Absolutely. We can—I stand for council's direction. [00:36:40] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** I think it would be appropriate to hold this off until May when things are probably a little more active. [00:37:15] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** I would propose to amend my motion to add provided that the work is not done until May of 2026. [00:37:25] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** Second. [00:37:30] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** All those in favor of the amendment... All those in favor of the motion as amended, please signify by saying I. [00:37:45] **City Council (In Unison):** I. [00:37:47] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** That motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Stanley. Item number three was pulled from the agenda, so we can move into council reports. Council Member Dragisich. [00:38:00] **Council Member Nick Dragisich:** No report this evening. [00:38:02] **Council Member Jeff Holtz:** I saw on the District 834 schedule tonight they were having a closed session to discuss sale of the Lake Elmo Elementary. I'll be curious to know what happens there. [00:38:15] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Last Thursday, Council Member Hirn and myself were able to experience the new simulator golf simulators at Party Barn. If you like to golf, go check it out. Council Member Hirn. [00:38:40] **Council Member Matt Hirn:** Yeah. At the commission meeting last week... I'll just give a little summary because there's a good chance Mike Bradley is going to be coming and presenting for one of the workshops about broadband franchises. Woodbury has started a template for these negotiations. [Hirn provides detailed summary of broadband franchise fees and legalities]. [00:41:00] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Thank you. We move into staff reports. Nicole. [00:41:05] **City Administrator Nicole Miller:** Sure. So with the approval of our three new hires tonight from council, we will be filling three of our current vacant positions. We're excited to welcome three new members to our team as well as we are continuing to recruit for a public works director position. [00:41:25] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** When will those positions start? [00:41:27] **City Administrator Nicole Miller:** One building inspector starts Monday. The PW fire admin is scheduled to start December 1st. And then the other inspector early December. [00:41:40] **Mayor Charles Cadenhead:** Great. With that, we'll adjourn this meeting.